Full Transcript for Darkseid vs the World Sanford Greene

00:04:27.589 --> 00:04:30.689 bring the cover back up because we've got to Zapruder 71 00:04:30.730 --> 00:04:35.120 film this and kind of analyze what little information you 72 00:04:35.139 --> 00:04:39.199 gave us on this cover, man. But yeah, I mean, 73 00:04:39.240 --> 00:04:41.759 obviously we see it right in the forefront. Darkseid in 74 00:04:41.779 --> 00:04:44.560 the background, but right there, dead center in the forefront 75 00:04:44.639 --> 00:04:48.949 in a A very Mertron kind of yoga pose with 76 00:04:49.009 --> 00:04:53.759 the anti-life Omega symbol on his chest. Obviously some sort 77 00:04:53.800 --> 00:04:56.300 of dark side creature. But we see new guys in 78 00:04:56.319 --> 00:04:59.500 the background. We see Orion. I think is that Barda? Yeah, 79 00:04:59.560 --> 00:05:00.560 I see Barda back there. 80 00:05:00.740 --> 00:05:02.519 Barda. You got Mr. 81 00:05:02.620 --> 00:05:03.079 Miracle. 82 00:05:03.110 --> 00:05:05.750 Of course, if you have Barda, you know, he's right 83 00:05:05.810 --> 00:05:07.790 beside her. I mean, he's not going to let her 84 00:05:07.829 --> 00:05:12.029 go but so far away without him being there. But 85 00:05:12.069 --> 00:05:19.759 that cover... Honestly, that cover was done I think the 86 00:05:19.800 --> 00:05:22.579 cover was done almost a year ago. It's been a 87 00:05:22.699 --> 00:05:29.509 long time. Credit to DC and the entire editorial staff 88 00:05:30.009 --> 00:05:33.790 and just how they put together and lay out everything 89 00:05:33.910 --> 00:05:40.149 for these story arcs. They have so many moving parts, 90 00:05:41.149 --> 00:05:47.230 multiple plates spinning, and They are in control of pretty 91 00:05:47.250 --> 00:05:51.449 much every facet of every corner of the DC universe. 92 00:05:51.529 --> 00:05:54.569 And so they reached out to me to do the cover, 93 00:05:55.509 --> 00:06:00.000 like I said, almost a year ago. So some of 94 00:06:00.040 --> 00:06:04.120 those things, to answer your question, I guess to some degree, 95 00:06:05.100 --> 00:06:10.279 that cover says a lot about all kinds of things. 96 00:06:11.579 --> 00:06:14.269 And at the same time is not saying a whole 97 00:06:14.310 --> 00:06:20.639 lot about my story. So, so it's, it is, but 98 00:06:20.779 --> 00:06:26.139 it isn't. So, but it does have something to do 99 00:06:26.220 --> 00:06:29.560 with overall where things are, are headed. 100 00:06:31.060 --> 00:06:32.970 Did you get to, and again, I'll keep it general 101 00:06:33.029 --> 00:06:36.490 and you don't have to get into specifics. Have you 102 00:06:36.569 --> 00:06:42.720 created new designs or creatures that, for this particular story? 103 00:06:45.899 --> 00:06:50.759 Yes and no. I will say this. I was able 104 00:06:50.819 --> 00:06:59.490 to play in the DC Universe sandbox a lot. A lot. 105 00:07:00.350 --> 00:07:00.709 Okay. 106 00:07:00.990 --> 00:07:04.310 I drew things that... There are Easter eggs all over 107 00:07:04.350 --> 00:07:11.050 the place, and so not necessarily redesigning anything, but... doing 108 00:07:11.069 --> 00:07:14.589 a new take on some things that you haven't seen 109 00:07:14.629 --> 00:07:18.050 in a while. Some things you may have seen once 110 00:07:18.089 --> 00:07:22.949 or twice in the entire history of the DC universe. 111 00:07:23.089 --> 00:07:27.129 So that's all I can tell you, man. All right. 112 00:07:27.170 --> 00:07:27.589 Fair enough. 113 00:07:28.870 --> 00:07:30.540 I feel like the powers that be are good. I'm 114 00:07:30.569 --> 00:07:33.959 going to get an email at any point. We did 115 00:07:34.120 --> 00:07:37.579 kind of a quick sidebar. We had this really cool 116 00:07:37.779 --> 00:07:45.269 meeting with, like a DC summit with the retailers. I 117 00:07:45.329 --> 00:07:48.129 think it was last week. And there were retailers from 118 00:07:48.170 --> 00:07:55.569 all over the country, all over the world. And even there, what, 119 00:07:55.889 --> 00:07:59.980 what was being explained, we couldn't go too far into 120 00:08:00.019 --> 00:08:03.279 it because we really wanted to, to lead the surprise, 121 00:08:03.839 --> 00:08:08.220 you know, you know, make that surprise something that, It 122 00:08:08.300 --> 00:08:10.610 really has some meaning to it. 123 00:08:12.220 --> 00:08:16.879 I'm excited, man. No, and truly, I give both Scott 124 00:08:16.959 --> 00:08:21.129 and Joshua so much credit for stretching this string out 125 00:08:21.290 --> 00:08:25.850 as long as they have, because it really impacts both 126 00:08:25.990 --> 00:08:30.139 universes completely. And especially as we keep learning more about 127 00:08:30.180 --> 00:08:34.460 the absolute side, it's like, don't reveal everything yet, man. No, 128 00:08:34.559 --> 00:08:37.590 it really like, this is what a wonderful opportunity. And 129 00:08:37.870 --> 00:08:40.750 obviously it's great that sales are reflecting that as well, 130 00:08:41.049 --> 00:08:43.750 but it's like, no, this is, this is really cool. 131 00:08:44.090 --> 00:08:46.970 What they, what they built. And again, it's still impacting 132 00:08:47.429 --> 00:08:52.750 the regular proper all in, you know, main DC universe 133 00:08:52.820 --> 00:08:54.679 as well. I want to, I want to put out 134 00:08:54.720 --> 00:08:57.429 some points here. that, uh, people are already saying in 135 00:08:57.450 --> 00:09:03.429 the chat, uh, Sal Abinadi, uh, loves your work. Looks 136 00:09:03.470 --> 00:09:07.159 looking forward to seeing you at Icon LA in November. 137 00:09:07.940 --> 00:09:09.059 Yes. Yes. 138 00:09:10.940 --> 00:09:11.740 So that's cool. 139 00:09:12.120 --> 00:09:16.470 Excited. Uh, thanks Sal. Um, definitely a fan of what, 140 00:09:16.799 --> 00:09:20.610 you know, you guys do with, um, the Alex Ross, 141 00:09:20.970 --> 00:09:26.159 you know, uh, his, his works. I got that new, um, 142 00:09:26.419 --> 00:09:32.710 Alex Ross, uh, graphic novel, um, that is, that was 143

00:09:32.809 --> 00:09:37.549 super inspirational for me working on this dark side, believe 144 00:09:37.570 --> 00:09:39.570 it or not, even though it was a Marvel thing, 145 00:09:39.850 --> 00:09:42.649 just the way that it was put together and some 146 00:09:42.669 --> 00:09:46.669 of the ideas, it, it, it really, um, inspired me. 147 00:09:47.610 --> 00:09:50.740 You know, honestly, talking to Alex, um, he was so 148 00:09:50.860 --> 00:09:55.000 nervous about both what was happening in the absolute universe 149 00:09:55.470 --> 00:09:58.309 and also what Marvel's doing with their midnight stuff. And 150 00:09:58.340 --> 00:10:00.659 he's just like, you know, I talked to him about 151 00:10:00.679 --> 00:10:02.659 this a month or two ago and he's like, man, 152 00:10:02.679 --> 00:10:04.899 I wish somebody had told me. And it's like, yeah, 153 00:10:04.919 --> 00:10:09.460 but Alex, it's different enough. And also, especially you're such 154 00:10:09.500 --> 00:10:12.159 a different artist than Alex is. And I can maybe 155 00:10:12.179 --> 00:10:15.809 even see from, and forgive me for suggesting maybe from 156 00:10:15.850 --> 00:10:19.470 a color standpoint, maybe some of his color choices might. 157 00:10:19.950 --> 00:10:25.450 Oh yeah, absolutely. That's exactly, you nailed it. Um, his, 158 00:10:25.529 --> 00:10:28.990 his color choice that I'm a huge fan of that, 159 00:10:29.070 --> 00:10:35.480 that really classic palette, you know, not, not over rendered. My, my, 160 00:10:35.529 --> 00:10:38.779 my work has a lot of ink slinging all over 161 00:10:38.799 --> 00:10:42.820 the place. Right. And so it, it, it doesn't really 162 00:10:43.340 --> 00:10:51.149 benefit my work to have this super over rendered color, um, Many, many, many, 163 00:10:51.429 --> 00:10:54.929 many years ago when I first started, there was a 164 00:10:54.970 --> 00:10:59.700 colorist that did that type of rendering on my work. 165 00:11:00.399 --> 00:11:02.919 And that was the last time I said, no more. 166 00:11:02.940 --> 00:11:06.480 I have to take control of this. And I started 167 00:11:06.539 --> 00:11:09.100 coloring a lot of my own work, mostly the covers. 168 00:11:09.519 --> 00:11:15.649 But whenever I do actual stories, interior work, I have 169 00:11:16.009 --> 00:11:22.779 a really awesome colorist, Matt Herms, who he's, he's pretty 170 00:11:22.840 --> 00:11:25.879 known in the, uh, in the DC side of, uh, 171 00:11:26.100 --> 00:11:28.980 of things as far as his work. Uh, we've been working, 172 00:11:29.120 --> 00:11:33.909 working together now for, he, he, he helped, um, color 173 00:11:34.070 --> 00:11:38.110 and assist on the, uh, on the Dune one shot 174 00:11:38.129 --> 00:11:42.600 that I did. Um, he, he was instrumental in helping 175 00:11:42.649 --> 00:11:45.259 kind of guide some of the, uh, the coloring in that. 176 00:11:45.320 --> 00:11:47.379 And once I saw that, I was like, okay, dude, 177 00:11:48.039 --> 00:11:50.789 it's me and

you, man. Let's, this, this do a lot. 178 00:11:50.830 --> 00:11:54.259 And so he, he came in, um, and we've been 179 00:11:54.299 --> 00:11:58.279 working together on the next movement, the bitter root, um, 180 00:11:58.399 --> 00:12:02.299 next movement, um, many, and then now we're doing this 181 00:12:02.399 --> 00:12:06.190 and stay tuned. There's many more things we have, uh, 182 00:12:06.389 --> 00:12:09.029 lined up, but yeah, he gets that palette. He gets that, 183 00:12:09.889 --> 00:12:14.389 that classic, uh, palette, um, you know, uh, making sure 184 00:12:14.409 --> 00:12:18.870 that your, your cyans and your magentas, uh, really matter. 185 00:12:18.970 --> 00:12:26.750 And we're all about, I'm all about creating pages of 186 00:12:26.850 --> 00:12:30.700 color that has a story. Skies aren't going to just 187 00:12:30.740 --> 00:12:34.440 be blue. Grass is not going to be just green. 188 00:12:34.580 --> 00:12:37.720 It's going to have something there that's going to create 189 00:12:37.840 --> 00:12:39.279 an add to the story. 190 00:12:40.460 --> 00:12:44.259 That's excellent, man. Sal reminds us again, if people don't know, 191 00:12:44.639 --> 00:12:47.080 it came out at the beginning of the month, Marvel Dimensions. 192 00:12:47.750 --> 00:12:51.549 is Alex's graphic novel, and he also says that Alex 193 00:12:51.590 --> 00:12:54.149 loves your work, Sanford, which is awesome. Oh, beautiful. It 194 00:12:54.169 --> 00:12:57.580 doesn't surprise me, so that's cool. Well, Sal should know. 195 00:12:57.840 --> 00:13:00.639 You know, he reps Alex, and he talks to Alex 196 00:13:00.700 --> 00:13:04.379 every day. So Dennis wants to know, can every Sanford 197 00:13:04.419 --> 00:13:09.240 Green book be printed at Treasury Edition size? After reading 198 00:13:09.320 --> 00:13:12.039 Doom in that format, I want all of his art 199 00:13:12.090 --> 00:13:14.669 at that scale. Masterful work. I didn't know they made 200 00:13:14.710 --> 00:13:16.710 it oversized, dude. That's great. 201 00:13:17.159 --> 00:13:23.659 Yeah, that was quite a fight just to get it 202 00:13:23.759 --> 00:13:32.470 to do Treasury. It's not even necessarily Marvel as we 203 00:13:32.549 --> 00:13:34.889 know it, like the editorial. It wasn't them. It was 204 00:13:34.950 --> 00:13:38.460 just where things were at the time and it took 205 00:13:38.500 --> 00:13:41.559 a lot just to try to get it to that point. 206 00:13:41.700 --> 00:13:46.090 I felt like it wasn't so much of the Oh, 207 00:13:46.129 --> 00:13:48.730 my work should be done in the treasury. I just 208 00:13:48.750 --> 00:13:53.669 felt like the story had it had it had enough 209 00:13:53.710 --> 00:13:57.490 gravitas to it to where I felt it could work. 210 00:13:58.850 --> 00:14:05.409 And I tried to advocate for for that. And they 211 00:14:05.429 --> 00:14:11.470 did it. I have ambitions of seeing that done on 212 00:14:11.570 --> 00:14:15.429 several other projects up and coming. So stay tuned. 213 00:14:16.809 --> 00:14:19.250 That's great to hear, man. That's excellent. And that's the 214 00:14:19.289 --> 00:14:21.470 last time you and I talked was when Doom was 215 00:14:21.529 --> 00:14:21.990 coming out. 216 00:14:22.149 --> 00:14:22.970 Yeah. 217 00:14:23.289 --> 00:14:24.509 No, you did a hell of a job, man. It 218 00:14:24.529 --> 00:14:28.669 was a great story and beautifully done and Marvel Cosmic 219 00:14:28.730 --> 00:14:29.309 at its best. 220 00:14:31.350 --> 00:14:37.149 Did you see the post that Robert Downey Jr. posted? 221 00:14:38.509 --> 00:14:41.740 He posted the Treasury. Yeah, this is months ago. I 222 00:14:41.820 --> 00:14:44.440 think it was months ago. So I felt like I've 223 00:14:44.480 --> 00:14:49.840 arrived somewhat. somewhat i was like hey if he's posting 224 00:14:49.860 --> 00:14:54.279 this then you know come on uh marvel i'm just 225 00:14:54.320 --> 00:14:59.740 saying that's great absolutely posting this he he's posting it 226 00:14:59.799 --> 00:15:05.000 for a reason so you know oh yeah um. 227 00:15:04.320 --> 00:15:07.000 Sal is asking i i forget what state you're in 228 00:15:07.120 --> 00:15:10.299 other than confusion but uh so let's know all right 229 00:15:10.379 --> 00:15:11.360 you're not located in l.a. 230 00:15:12.799 --> 00:15:16.240 No, no. I'm actually about an hour away from Charlotte. 231 00:15:16.299 --> 00:15:21.169 I'm in Columbia, South Carolina. Yes. Yeah. So, you know, 232 00:15:21.470 --> 00:15:28.750 Heroes Con, the, you know, the aforementioned Heroes Con is 233 00:15:28.789 --> 00:15:33.799 about an hour away. Those guys, you know, run a 234 00:15:33.940 --> 00:15:37.419 classic show. So it's always cool to know, you know, 235 00:15:37.460 --> 00:15:40.659 you got one of the premier conventions, especially especially for 236 00:15:40.720 --> 00:15:44.919 creators and collectors of original art, you know, you have 237 00:15:46.159 --> 00:15:49.929 the world pretty much in your backyard. So it was 238 00:15:49.950 --> 00:15:55.909 really cool, you know, to just go there and, you know, 239 00:15:56.049 --> 00:15:59.669 it's like, again, it's my backyard. So all these, you know, 240 00:16:00.509 --> 00:16:05.210 tremendous talents, they, they, they fly in and drop in. 241 00:16:05.929 --> 00:16:08.929 I'm able to, he's sort of an, uh, of a 242 00:16:08.970 --> 00:16:12.929 host cause I know, I know where things are. So, uh, yeah, I'm, 243 00:16:13.070 --> 00:16:14.529 I'm in that, that area. 244 00:16:15.690 --> 00:16:20.419 Gotcha. Uh, all right, Matt, Matthew's, uh, blowing you some college, uh, uh, 245 00:16:20.840 --> 00:16:24.039 mascot bullshit saying the game sucks. No dogs. 246 00:16:25.360 --> 00:16:27.899 Look, I'm not, I'm not, that's not my dog. I 247 00:16:27.899 --> 00:16:32.139 don't have a dog in that fight. My, my, my pun. Um, 248 00:16:32.210 --> 00:16:35.070 that's your, that's your backyard, buddy. Um, I'm a, I'm 249 00:16:35.129 -->

00:16:38.309 a Miami hurricanes guy. But you know what's funny is 250 00:16:38.330 --> 00:16:44.309 that if I deal with anything in the state, it's 251 00:16:44.370 --> 00:16:47.110 either my alma mater or every once in a while 252 00:16:47.169 --> 00:16:49.809 I might cheer for the Gamecocks. 253 00:16:51.250 --> 00:16:54.580 That's fair. I'm zooming in. Is that a Miami shirt? 254 00:16:55.529 --> 00:17:02.659 Oh, gosh, no. This is my alma mater, Benedict College. Oh, cool. 255 00:17:03.039 --> 00:17:09.039 They're number one in the Country in Division II, historical 256 00:17:09.059 --> 00:17:12.099 black colleges, they're ranked number one. Oh, sure. I can see. 257 00:17:12.240 --> 00:17:13.079 Absolutely, man. 258 00:17:13.099 --> 00:17:14.440 Yeah. 259 00:17:14.460 --> 00:17:15.059 That's great. 260 00:17:15.559 --> 00:17:16.359 We're no slouch. 261 00:17:17.740 --> 00:17:22.400 No, that's amazing. You know, honestly, I was so impressed 262 00:17:22.779 --> 00:17:25.259 when Byron Allen, I don't know if it actually, and 263 00:17:25.500 --> 00:17:29.279 you know, honestly, man, after my 20 years in sports radio, 264 00:17:29.839 --> 00:17:32.400 I checked out. And I'll watch a game and enjoy 265 00:17:32.440 --> 00:17:35.009 a game, and I'll certainly get excited about the baseball 266 00:17:35.049 --> 00:17:38.259 playoffs coming up. But mostly it's like, you know, again, 267 00:17:38.619 --> 00:17:41.119 when I had to do it consistently for 20 years, 268 00:17:41.160 --> 00:17:45.779 it's like, yeah, that's enough. But that said, when Byron Allen, 269 00:17:46.140 --> 00:17:47.539 I don't know if he actually came through with it 270 00:17:47.579 --> 00:17:50.799 or not, but he was talking about creating a sports 271 00:17:50.880 --> 00:17:55.970 television network covering the HBCs. And I'm like, why hasn't 272 00:17:56.029 --> 00:17:58.190 anyone done this before? That's fucking brilliant. 273 00:17:59.069 --> 00:18:05.950 Well, there's several networks and, you know, But ESPN, they 274 00:18:05.990 --> 00:18:09.190 do cover it. As a matter of fact, my school, 275 00:18:09.950 --> 00:18:15.730 they have, I think, five games on ESPN throughout the year. 276 00:18:16.930 --> 00:18:19.230 You know, for what ESPN is worth, you know, they 277 00:18:19.250 --> 00:18:23.930 have their critics at this point. But, you know, they're 278 00:18:23.950 --> 00:18:27.819 still the biggest game in town. So to have that 279 00:18:27.900 --> 00:18:31.720 kind of coverage, it is beneficial. 280 00:18:32.559 --> 00:18:34.990 I'm happy. No, that's great, man. And also it's so funny. 281 00:18:35.009 --> 00:18:38.839 I was doing a quick diatribe into college football all 282 00:18:38.880 --> 00:18:42.019 because of that comment that Gamecocks suck. 283 00:18:42.059 --> 00:18:47.259 Now we're, I love the tangent. Come on, Sam. 284 00:18:48.220 --> 00:18:51.039 I listened to your part, your podcast and, and, and 285 00:18:51.599 --> 00:18:54.880 the diversions that you guys have when it comes to 286 00:18:54.940 --> 00:18:57.660 Star Trek is hilarious. It's like, you can be talking 287 00:18:57.720 --> 00:19:02.309 about whatever series or comic projects and all of a sudden, 288 00:19:02.750 --> 00:19:05.390 one comment, and it's like, the next 30 minutes is. 289 00:19:06.670 --> 00:19:10.450 It's true. I won't deny that. But I love it. 290 00:19:10.650 --> 00:19:13.289 But don't you think, truly, man, as a listener, and 291 00:19:13.329 --> 00:19:15.589 I feel this way as a fan myself, we get 292 00:19:15.630 --> 00:19:18.089 to know more about you guys and women, that like, oh, 293 00:19:18.170 --> 00:19:21.099 I had no idea that, you know, Creator X, like, 294 00:19:21.170 --> 00:19:23.539 my example is always like, And I've yet to meet 295 00:19:23.599 --> 00:19:26.039 anyone who does it. But, oh, I make ships in 296 00:19:26.079 --> 00:19:28.140 a bottle. I do those models. And then, you know, 297 00:19:28.160 --> 00:19:30.339 someone's going to be at a convention, and some guy 298 00:19:30.359 --> 00:19:31.940 that does it will go, hey, I make ships in 299 00:19:31.980 --> 00:19:34.299 a bottle, too. That's awesome. And then there's more of 300 00:19:34.339 --> 00:19:36.759 a connection beyond the books and everything. So I think 301 00:19:36.799 --> 00:19:39.240 that's cool. I love it. 302 00:19:39.549 --> 00:19:42.410 Funny you should mention that, because I do make ships 303 00:19:42.470 --> 00:19:44.289 in a bottle. I'm joking. I'm joking. 304 00:19:45.609 --> 00:19:46.750 That would be amazing. 305 00:19:47.990 --> 00:19:48.359 I knew it. 306 00:19:50.339 --> 00:19:50.680 Yeah. 307 00:19:50.700 --> 00:19:57.119 You're right. Just being, you know, you're right. Just the 308 00:19:57.160 --> 00:20:00.920 conversations are fluid and it, you know, you allow it 309 00:20:00.940 --> 00:20:04.359 to go where, where it's going to go. And you 310 00:20:04.380 --> 00:20:07.309 do find out some interesting things. It's not just a, 311 00:20:07.710 --> 00:20:11.029 what was your first comic or, You know, what are 312 00:20:11.049 --> 00:20:15.009 you working on now is obviously part of it. 313 00:20:15.690 --> 00:20:19.849 Yeah, we'll hit that stuff. That's a given. But, no, man, exactly. 314 00:20:20.250 --> 00:20:22.750 I want to know about the people I'm talking to. 315 00:20:23.119 --> 00:20:25.380 I know the listeners feel that way as well because 316 00:20:25.440 --> 00:20:28.519 I get that kind of feedback. And it's wonderful, absolutely. 317 00:20:28.960 --> 00:20:31.779 Matt says he's a UGA graduate. 318 00:20:33.480 --> 00:20:34.920 I don't really care. 319 00:20:34.940 --> 00:20:35.259 Me neither. 320 00:20:35.680 --> 00:20:40.710 Ha, ha, ha. That's all it comes from because he 321 00:20:40.910 --> 00:20:43.769 said the Gamecocks suck. So that is the only reason 322 00:20:43.829 --> 00:20:46.410 I said that. But cool, cool. 323 00:20:46.660 --> 00:20:49.980 That's hilarious. What about other,

and I might have asked 324 00:20:50.019 --> 00:20:53.200 you this in the past, other South Carolinians that are 325 00:20:53.220 --> 00:20:55.700 comic book artists? How close are you to other artists 326 00:20:55.759 --> 00:20:56.539 in the biz? 327 00:20:57.180 --> 00:21:04.109 So I am, so Jonathan Hickman is about 45 minutes 328 00:21:04.170 --> 00:21:10.130 away from me. So just a quick, you know, sidebar story. 329 00:21:10.150 --> 00:21:15.150 I knew Jonathan before he got into comics. And before 330 00:21:15.230 --> 00:21:17.529 I really got into comics, I, he used to come 331 00:21:17.670 --> 00:21:20.710 up to, uh, to heroes con when we were both 332 00:21:21.049 --> 00:21:25.740 trying to break in. And, um, we met, uh, standing in, 333 00:21:25.980 --> 00:21:29.400 in line, trying to, trying to get our portfolios reviewed 334 00:21:29.579 --> 00:21:33.440 at the, uh, Marvel, you know, that was where everyone 335 00:21:33.480 --> 00:21:37.930 went that an image, um, And so, uh, we were 336 00:21:38.009 --> 00:21:40.609 standing in line and we just started talking and found 337 00:21:40.690 --> 00:21:45.690 out he lived in South Carolina and we just exchanged information. 338 00:21:46.250 --> 00:21:49.450 And through the years we would periodically meet up. He 339 00:21:49.470 --> 00:21:53.299 would come to Columbia where I live because he was 340 00:21:53.420 --> 00:21:58.059 coaching soccer. I think, um, he was coaching like, uh, like, uh, 341 00:21:58.539 --> 00:22:03.279 the equivalent to, uh, an AAU soccer team. He's really 342 00:22:03.319 --> 00:22:07.380 into soccer. And, um, he would come up and on 343 00:22:07.400 --> 00:22:11.710 the weekends for the weekend and we would meet up 344 00:22:12.829 --> 00:22:15.490 on a Saturday of when he had a moment free 345 00:22:16.130 --> 00:22:18.130 and we would just catch up. And then I lost 346 00:22:18.210 --> 00:22:23.390 contact with him for years, probably. And, you know, I 347 00:22:23.430 --> 00:22:29.779 was already starting to make my way through roughly around 2006, seven, eight, 348 00:22:30.500 --> 00:22:34.099 somewhere in there. And I heard this big story, heard 349 00:22:34.559 --> 00:22:38.960 about this, new creator that is taking over, uh, taking 350 00:22:39.000 --> 00:22:42.859 the industry by storm. And it was him. And I 351 00:22:42.900 --> 00:22:46.420 was like, I know this dude. And, uh, he's been, 352 00:22:47.019 --> 00:22:48.920 he's been skyrocketing ever since. 353 00:22:50.039 --> 00:22:52.319 Did he, uh, did he approach you at all? Uh, 354 00:22:52.700 --> 00:22:55.119 do any of the sci-fi sub stack stuff or some 355 00:22:55.160 --> 00:22:58.079 of his other independent stuff or even Marvel, uh, stuff 356 00:22:58.099 --> 00:22:59.319 that you guys worked ever together? 357 00:22:59.440 --> 00:23:02.269 Well, you know, he did, he and I, uh, co 358 00:23:02.420 --> 00:23:08.640 wrote and, um, Yeah, plotted the Doom one-shot. Right. That's right. 359 00:23:08.680 --> 00:23:09.059 Of course. 360 00:23:09.099 --> 00:23:13.160 First time we've ever worked together. We've talked about working 361 00:23:13.200 --> 00:23:21.119 together for years, and the timing just wasn't really afforded. 362 00:23:22.029 --> 00:23:24.349 I started Bitter Root, and that pretty much took over 363 00:23:24.450 --> 00:23:27.450 for like five years, four or five years. And then, 364 00:23:27.470 --> 00:23:32.170 of course, he was doing everything, all things Marvel, and 365 00:23:33.150 --> 00:23:37.130 finally had a break. and we said, let's do this 366 00:23:37.250 --> 00:23:40.829 one thing. We can at least do a one-shot series. 367 00:23:40.849 --> 00:23:46.750 This wouldn't necessarily work out, but that did. We're talking 368 00:23:46.809 --> 00:23:50.119 about doing some other stuff as well. The Substack stuff 369 00:23:50.279 --> 00:23:55.259 is great, but the schedule, I think, again, the schedule 370 00:23:55.279 --> 00:23:59.180 just never really worked out. 371 00:23:59.400 --> 00:24:02.890 Beyond what you're doing with Bitterroot, and also, of course, 372 00:24:02.930 --> 00:24:05.549 we've talked in the past about your animation work and 373 00:24:05.589 --> 00:24:10.990 things like that. But from a comic art standpoint, are 374 00:24:12.269 --> 00:24:16.230 there non-superhero things that you would like to draw? 375 00:24:18.799 --> 00:24:23.680 Yes. In fact, I guess a bit of breaking news. 376 00:24:23.740 --> 00:24:27.259 I've shared this before in some various places, but I 377 00:24:27.660 --> 00:24:35.259 am working on a graphic memoir project thing. That's the 378 00:24:35.279 --> 00:24:39.309 best I can put it. I've got the title for it. 379 00:24:39.880 --> 00:24:43.730 The idea is basically just about me growing up in 380 00:24:44.349 --> 00:24:49.430 the 1980s in the South, South Carolina. So it's fantastical 381 00:24:49.549 --> 00:24:52.690 and it's all the things that influenced me as a 382 00:24:52.730 --> 00:24:57.680 kid and also being a kid in the 80s in 383 00:24:57.720 --> 00:25:03.359 that time period in that area in the South, you know, 384 00:25:04.589 --> 00:25:07.190 what I did was definitely an anomaly. I was a, 385 00:25:07.589 --> 00:25:11.009 an alien to, to put it lightly. And so I said, 386 00:25:11.029 --> 00:25:13.190 you know what, let's, let's see if I can create 387 00:25:13.230 --> 00:25:17.369 something cool based on, on that. So yeah, I'm, I'm slowly, 388 00:25:18.349 --> 00:25:19.970 but surely working on that. 389 00:25:21.029 --> 00:25:23.950 Excellent. And we've mentioned Bitterroot a couple of times. People 390 00:25:23.970 --> 00:25:26.049 are going to probably want an update from you of where, 391 00:25:26.529 --> 00:25:28.349 where the Bitterroot project stands these days. 392 00:25:29.089 --> 00:25:31.910 We just had a meeting, uh, actually 30 minutes ago 393 00:25:31.970 --> 00:25:36.970 before I got on with you, we had a meeting, uh, Um, and, uh, we're,

we're, 394 00:25:37.589 --> 00:25:43.950 we've got all the things in place to launch something 395 00:25:44.029 --> 00:25:47.390 that we've never done before. Um, that's the best way 396 00:25:47.430 --> 00:25:51.210 I can put it. Okay. You, you, you will definitely 397 00:25:51.269 --> 00:25:54.279 know about it soon enough. Uh, once we get all 398 00:25:54.319 --> 00:25:58.599 of the, uh, yeah, once we, once, once the ball 399 00:25:58.619 --> 00:26:01.769 gets rolling, it's going to, yeah. Yeah. That's the best 400 00:26:01.809 --> 00:26:02.349 way I can put it. 401 00:26:03.230 --> 00:26:06.170 Well, given, given what you, David and Chuck have created 402 00:26:06.630 --> 00:26:09.269 with bitter root, I would think that there are a 403 00:26:09.289 --> 00:26:12.650 lot of other younger artists that would love to jump 404 00:26:12.789 --> 00:26:16.190 in the bitter root world and forgive me. I don't 405 00:26:16.230 --> 00:26:19.869 remember if you've already included other artists to come in 406 00:26:20.289 --> 00:26:21.309 and play in your playground. 407 00:26:22.089 --> 00:26:28.579 We did a one shot, um, in volume one. Um, Hey, 408 00:26:28.619 --> 00:26:32.140 thanks a lot for the love on Bitterroot. But yeah, 409 00:26:32.180 --> 00:26:37.099 we did a one-shot called The Red Summer. And that's 410 00:26:37.140 --> 00:26:43.720 kind of like the historical moment in time, the tragic 411 00:26:43.759 --> 00:26:48.779 moment in time, where we just took that moment and basically... 412 00:26:48.680 --> 00:26:54.410 created some short stories with that premise being the backdrop 413 00:26:54.650 --> 00:26:59.049 for it using, you know, the characters from Bitterroot, the 414 00:26:59.089 --> 00:27:05.740 Sangrier family. So, yeah, we got a few creators, artists. 415 00:27:07.140 --> 00:27:11.059 So David and Chuck did the stories for that. But 416 00:27:11.339 --> 00:27:17.380 we use various artists to illustrate those. But, yeah, we're 417 00:27:17.460 --> 00:27:22.019 working on some things right now that will definitely expand 418 00:27:22.299 --> 00:27:24.660 the world, the Bitterroot world. 419 00:27:25.680 --> 00:27:29.680 I'm excited. That's great, man. I know COVID really did 420 00:27:29.700 --> 00:27:31.660 a number on you guys and kind of killed a 421 00:27:31.680 --> 00:27:35.559 lot of momentum you guys had going with the book. But, obviously, 422 00:27:35.660 --> 00:27:38.420 people love it and are patient waiting for something new. 423 00:27:38.609 --> 00:27:40.500 I got to tell you, you mentioned Red Summer. I 424 00:27:40.869 --> 00:27:42.769 don't know if I've ever told you one of my 425 00:27:42.809 --> 00:27:45.890 best friends growing up wrote a book about Red Summer. 426 00:27:46.299 --> 00:27:51.230 His name is Cameron McWhorter. He's a journalist. I always 427 00:27:51.269 --> 00:27:54.029 have to stress this because the Wall Street Journal, from 428 00:27:54.049 --> 00:27:56.549 a political standpoint, is kind of a

football. But he's 429 00:27:56.609 --> 00:27:59.809 on the news side. He's on the journalism and historic 430 00:27:59.849 --> 00:28:02.589 side of the journal. But he wrote a book about 431 00:28:02.650 --> 00:28:05.369 Red Summer about, God, about 10 years ago. 432 00:28:06.009 --> 00:28:09.250 Oh, wow. Well, yeah, I mean, truth be told, you 433 00:28:09.430 --> 00:28:13.519 mentioned the pandemic. Truth be told, that's what really ignited us, 434 00:28:13.759 --> 00:28:18.319 that really kind of pushed us Um, during that time, because, 435 00:28:19.480 --> 00:28:22.740 you know, just, just being honest, this, the state of 436 00:28:23.470 --> 00:28:28.809 where things were, I think currently are, uh, socially, politically, 437 00:28:28.829 --> 00:28:33.369 all those things. Um, we really, I think what, what 438 00:28:33.450 --> 00:28:39.460 we were presenting in our stories really resonated because of those, uh, 439 00:28:39.500 --> 00:28:44.079 because of that particular moment. And, um, yeah, we, we, 440 00:28:44.630 --> 00:28:49.490 we know that, um, I guess the Bitterroot is special 441 00:28:49.529 --> 00:28:52.490 because we can come back at any point in time 442 00:28:52.650 --> 00:28:59.789 and honestly, uh, kind of pinpoint any moment in history and, 443 00:28:59.950 --> 00:29:03.529 and be able to pull something from it because sad 444 00:29:03.609 --> 00:29:06.170 part about it is, you know, history has a lot 445 00:29:06.190 --> 00:29:10.539 of tragic moments, right? And, um, but it also has 446 00:29:10.579 --> 00:29:14.039 a lot of inspirational moments too. And so I think 447 00:29:14.119 --> 00:29:19.779 we're trying to thread the line of both of those things. 448 00:29:19.819 --> 00:29:22.599 And I think that's why the book, well, I know 449 00:29:22.619 --> 00:29:25.440 that's why the book was successful. We did those essays 450 00:29:25.519 --> 00:29:27.440 and more and more people wanted to be a part 451 00:29:27.500 --> 00:29:32.579 of that. So we were, our back matter for our 452 00:29:32.680 --> 00:29:38.019 book became like curriculum for universities and Wow. It's pretty cool. 453 00:29:40.029 --> 00:29:44.849 we know that we really have a rich tapestry of 454 00:29:44.950 --> 00:29:48.869 just the world. And yeah, stay tuned. We got, we're 455 00:29:48.890 --> 00:29:51.670 going to really take it to the next level. 456 00:29:51.970 --> 00:29:56.789 We think. That's excellent, man. I believe it was bitter 457 00:29:56.829 --> 00:30:00.000 root that taught me about Bessie Coleman. From here in 458 00:30:00.039 --> 00:30:04.269 the Chicago area. And they've since, you know, named one 459 00:30:04.309 --> 00:30:09.529 of the highways, the Bessie Coleman Highway and everything. She 460 00:30:09.549 --> 00:30:10.589 was a bad woman, man. 461 00:30:10.990 --> 00:30:11.849 She was a bad woman. 462 00:30:12.410 --> 00:30:16.960 Aviatrix. And again, kind of appropriate. The road leading to 463 00:30:16.980 --> 00:30:19.619 O'Hare Airport is now the Bessie Coleman's. 464 00:30:20.099 --> 00:30:22.000 Yeah. Pretty cool, man. 465 00:30:22.579 --> 00:30:22.960 Excellent. 466 00:30:23.519 --> 00:30:23.700 All right. 467 00:30:23.720 --> 00:30:26.180 We were talking about another thing you did earlier this year. 468 00:30:26.809 --> 00:30:29.589 with Stegman and Steve Scrooge. We're talking about this off 469 00:30:29.609 --> 00:30:32.710 the air and that was this year's X-Men annual and 470 00:30:32.869 --> 00:30:37.150 Stegman wrote it and beyond, you know, you've got interiors 471 00:30:37.230 --> 00:30:41.130 in there, but also you're, tell people about your participation 472 00:30:41.190 --> 00:30:42.069 in the story as well. 473 00:30:43.329 --> 00:30:49.710 So, so me and Stegman, Ryan Stegman, we, we, we, we're, we're, 474 00:30:49.769 --> 00:30:54.730 we're buddies and we talk, you know, periodically about just stuff, 475 00:30:54.910 --> 00:30:59.000 you know, what, what we're working on. And he had 476 00:30:59.039 --> 00:31:03.349 this idea about putting together a story. He pitched a 477 00:31:03.369 --> 00:31:12.250 story to Marvel about basically that classic, those annuals that 478 00:31:12.289 --> 00:31:15.230 would include the creators and kind of make it a 479 00:31:15.519 --> 00:31:19.460 meta kind of thing. And he pitched this idea about, hey, 480 00:31:19.480 --> 00:31:22.339 why don't we kind of bring back those old classic 481 00:31:22.380 --> 00:31:27.369 stories where you insert the actual creator into the actual story. 482 00:31:28.269 --> 00:31:30.670 And I was joking. I said, hey, don't forget to 483 00:31:30.710 --> 00:31:33.170 put me in there. And he did. He put me in. 484 00:31:34.069 --> 00:31:37.269 I was like, oh, okay. So I was in the story. 485 00:31:37.690 --> 00:31:41.289 But I did, like, I think the story basically goes, 486 00:31:42.009 --> 00:31:47.730 you know, again, me and Stegman are actually comic book 487 00:31:47.829 --> 00:31:52.970 artists in the story. And one of the pages that is, 488 00:31:53.339 --> 00:31:59.829 that's illustrated is actually my actual illustrations. It's a page 489 00:31:59.930 --> 00:32:04.910 with me drawn by Steve Scrooge, but the actual page 490 00:32:05.309 --> 00:32:08.109 is a piece of art that I drew, right? If 491 00:32:08.130 --> 00:32:11.910 you can understand what I'm saying. So, yeah, Steve Scrooge 492 00:32:12.369 --> 00:32:15.950 did an awesome job. So he did the actual story 493 00:32:16.049 --> 00:32:21.410 illustrating it, but he drew me, you know, it's like, 494 00:32:21.470 --> 00:32:25.170 I'm trying not to be that guy, like, like, My 495 00:32:25.230 --> 00:32:27.470 nose doesn't look like that, you know, that kind of thing. 496 00:32:28.250 --> 00:32:31.609 But he did a great job. I mean, he nailed me, man. 497 00:32:31.650 --> 00:32:36.130 I had no complaints, no notes at all. And it 498 00:32:36.779 --> 00:32:37.559 was a fun story. 499 00:32:38.579 --> 00:32:41.700 That's

excellent, man. And I'm glad they're giving Stegman those 500 00:32:41.740 --> 00:32:45.420 opportunities to write as well. You know, that's cool. 501 00:32:45.900 --> 00:32:46.079 Yeah. 502 00:32:46.900 --> 00:32:50.579 Very, very cool, man. No, that's fantastic. And, again, I'm 503 00:32:50.619 --> 00:32:52.700 excited about what's coming with Bitter Root and everything, so 504 00:32:52.720 --> 00:32:56.730 that's neat. What else, man? What have you had time? 505 00:32:56.890 --> 00:32:59.690 I mean, we know summer's wrapping up. Did you see 506 00:32:59.730 --> 00:33:00.509 any of the big movies? 507 00:33:01.430 --> 00:33:04.890 Well, of course, you know, I saw, you know, the 508 00:33:04.930 --> 00:33:13.130 biggest ones, the Spider-Man. Obviously, that movie did. Honestly, the Odyssey, Spider-Man, 509 00:33:14.190 --> 00:33:18.900 you know, obviously those two, you know, they won the year, 510 00:33:19.220 --> 00:33:23.279 I think. And I saw a few others. 511 00:33:26.750 --> 00:33:27.349 Supergirl. 512 00:33:27.490 --> 00:33:33.779 Okay, I did see Supergirl. Okay. You know, I see 513 00:33:33.799 --> 00:33:37.420 the look on your face like give me the skinny. 514 00:33:38.220 --> 00:33:41.480 It was cool. It wasn't bad. I do think it 515 00:33:41.500 --> 00:33:44.579 would have worked better as a TV show. I think 516 00:33:44.619 --> 00:33:47.160 if they made it a TV show, an HBO Max 517 00:33:47.279 --> 00:33:48.200 kind of thing. 518 00:33:49.119 --> 00:33:49.539 Interesting. 519 00:33:49.900 --> 00:33:52.700 I think it really would have taken off because there 520 00:33:52.730 --> 00:33:57.660 was just too much things there that weren't really explained 521 00:33:57.880 --> 00:34:01.940 or understood by the what what i call the civilians 522 00:34:02.180 --> 00:34:04.920 you know we me and you we we're the the 523 00:34:04.980 --> 00:34:08.380 mutants right but then you have the civilians they don't 524 00:34:08.420 --> 00:34:12.000 know half of those things right um and so a 525 00:34:13.119 --> 00:34:15.739 great lit litmus test is my wife you know if 526 00:34:15.840 --> 00:34:19.239 she is asking me a million questions i know that 527 00:34:19.300 --> 00:34:24.110 it's a fail it's an epic fail but um Yeah, 528 00:34:24.230 --> 00:34:27.210 I think it would have served great as a TV show. 529 00:34:27.489 --> 00:34:29.409 They honestly need to do. 530 00:34:30.989 --> 00:34:37.039 They absolutely cannot waste any more time messing around with 531 00:34:37.119 --> 00:34:40.840 what I call the second tier or even third tier 532 00:34:40.880 --> 00:34:45.980 characters in film. Do that for TV. Your big three, 533 00:34:47.019 --> 00:34:49.920 you've got to have those things come out within the 534 00:34:49.960 --> 00:34:53.360 next year or else I don't know. I don't know 535 00:34:53.400 --> 00:34:57.170 where Like people are sick and tired of, you know, 536 00:34:57.869 --> 00:35:04.099 Peacemaker is cool. And that was a TV show. Yes.

537 00:35:04.800 --> 00:35:08.360 I'm trying to think, what was a movie that, doing 538 00:35:08.400 --> 00:35:11.360 the James Gunn regime? There was some other movies. Oh, 539 00:35:15.750 --> 00:35:20.469 not The Watchmen. My brain is, what's the, oh, Suicide Squad. 540 00:35:21.510 --> 00:35:27.170 The James Gunn, Right, the second one. Great, cool movie, 541 00:35:27.269 --> 00:35:31.289 but I think the mistake that, and this is just 542 00:35:31.369 --> 00:35:35.610 totally just kind of how I think he's thinking, or 543 00:35:35.650 --> 00:35:39.429 they're thinking, like, oh, look, I made, you know, I 544 00:35:39.469 --> 00:35:44.679 made a tree and a squirrel the hottest things, you know, going, right? 545 00:35:45.219 --> 00:35:48.460 And then I jump over to the other side, and I, 546 00:35:48.800 --> 00:35:54.570 you know, I got this dude that blows bubbles. and 547 00:35:55.090 --> 00:35:59.289 a dude with a, you know, tinfoil helmet and made 548 00:35:59.349 --> 00:36:02.570 them cool. Surely I can just keep doing this kind 549 00:36:02.639 --> 00:36:05.980 of thing and people will accept it. And it's getting 550 00:36:06.019 --> 00:36:10.139 to the point where it's borderline annoying, I guess is 551 00:36:10.179 --> 00:36:14.099 the best. It's like, Oh dude, I'm tired of seeing the, 552 00:36:15.099 --> 00:36:17.900 you know, those lower tier or not even lower. I'm 553 00:36:17.940 --> 00:36:22.190 talking about obscure because peacemaker was not on anyone's radar 554 00:36:22.309 --> 00:36:29.010 and And again, hats off to the production team and 555 00:36:29.030 --> 00:36:35.579 that regime for making a character like that really a 556 00:36:36.659 --> 00:36:42.460 part of the cultural zeitgeist. But we're now in a 557 00:36:42.500 --> 00:36:45.400 space where it's like, okay, I need Wonder Woman to 558 00:36:45.440 --> 00:36:50.510 show up. I need Batman definitely to show up. And 559 00:36:50.590 --> 00:36:53.170 you better make them awesome or else. 560 00:36:53.949 --> 00:36:57.889 I get it. No, I absolutely get it. Well, we 561 00:36:57.929 --> 00:37:02.510 should talk about Lanterns. Are you watching? 562 00:37:02.750 --> 00:37:05.369 Maybe we shouldn't talk about Lanterns because I hadn't watched 563 00:37:05.429 --> 00:37:09.199 it yet because I'm going to binge it. Sorry. I'm 564 00:37:09.260 --> 00:37:14.880 one of those dudes. I'm sorry. I don't watch anything. 565 00:37:15.019 --> 00:37:18.849 If it's something really, really good, I just save it. 566 00:37:19.380 --> 00:37:23.289 I've heard the stories about you know, what, where it 567 00:37:23.389 --> 00:37:27.849 is so far, um, all the praise and, and especially, 568 00:37:27.869 --> 00:37:33.659 I think what was it? Episode three, people were really, um, captured, um, 569 00:37:33.739 --> 00:37:35.760 by that. And I'm like, Oh man, I can't wait. 570 00:37:36.280 --> 00:37:39.039 I did it with penguin and it was one of 571 00:37:39.079 --> 00:37:43.539 the best experiences I've had, you know, watching television. I 572 00:37:43.559 --> 00:37:46.239 do it with all of those, um, programs. I do 573 00:37:46.260 --> 00:37:50.280 it with, um, yeah, I do it with everything. Daredevil, uh, 574 00:37:50.920 --> 00:37:56.360 did that. So yeah, Lanterns. What episode is it on 575 00:37:56.400 --> 00:37:56.800 right now? 576 00:37:57.539 --> 00:38:01.500 They just did episode four or five. Maybe somebody in 577 00:38:01.539 --> 00:38:05.260 the chat will remind me which. But out of eight. Okay, 578 00:38:05.280 --> 00:38:10.650 so it's eight. Yeah, it's going to be eight total. 579 00:38:11.269 --> 00:38:15.789 And I'm so happy for Tom King. Lindelof and Mundy, 580 00:38:16.429 --> 00:38:20.550 the other two executive producers, they've got big resumes. but 581 00:38:20.610 --> 00:38:25.179 especially coming off of the, I mean, again, I thought 582 00:38:25.280 --> 00:38:28.380 there were decent things in Supergirl, but it didn't serve 583 00:38:28.400 --> 00:38:32.539 Tom's comic book story well. I'm so happy. He's got 584 00:38:32.579 --> 00:38:36.210 his fingerprints all over lanterns, and it's really, really great. 585 00:38:36.230 --> 00:38:39.690 So I'm really, I'm very, very happy for Tom on 586 00:38:39.710 --> 00:38:42.570 the success of the show. It's funny. I agree with 587 00:38:42.590 --> 00:38:47.090 you about Penguin. We'll see how, and I, sadly, the 588 00:38:47.130 --> 00:38:50.559 next movie is Clayface, as you know. And that's an 589 00:38:50.619 --> 00:38:56.800 interesting choice in terms of– I don't anticipate– maybe they're 590 00:38:56.820 --> 00:39:00.079 hiding a Batman cameo in that movie. I don't know. 591 00:39:00.920 --> 00:39:06.780 But it's– again, it's– I hear what you're saying, and 592 00:39:06.800 --> 00:39:10.539 I don't disagree. And likely because of that success, like 593 00:39:10.559 --> 00:39:14.719 you said, that he had with Groot and Rocket for Guardians, that, yeah, 594 00:39:14.780 --> 00:39:19.849 why not? And also easier– no preconceived notions– of other 595 00:39:19.869 --> 00:39:23.780 polka dot men or you know uh the other the 596 00:39:23.820 --> 00:39:27.510 other c-listed d-list characters that were in his side squad 597 00:39:27.809 --> 00:39:30.469 yeah it is no it is interesting i'm really for Gunn. 598 00:39:30.949 --> 00:39:35.460 I like his taste. And I think, you know, I 599 00:39:35.500 --> 00:39:37.260 loved Creature Commandos, the cartoon. 600 00:39:38.019 --> 00:39:38.239 Yeah. 601 00:39:38.280 --> 00:39:41.519 I thought that was really good. Yeah, I like what 602 00:39:41.539 --> 00:39:43.420 he's putting out there. And so I'm giving him a 603 00:39:43.440 --> 00:39:46.380 lot more grace in terms of the ones that don't 604 00:39:46.440 --> 00:39:48.880 quite work. But I have to admit, I mean, I 605 00:39:49.139 --> 00:39:52.260 think it's a great idea to do something with Clayface. 606 00:39:52.300 --> 00:39:54.679 But like you said, maybe it would

have worked better 607 00:39:54.800 --> 00:39:56.579 as a miniseries. 608 00:39:58.670 --> 00:40:05.349 Yeah, five, six episodes. You know, you now could play 609 00:40:05.409 --> 00:40:12.820 with some of the nuanced stuff that... And let's just 610 00:40:12.860 --> 00:40:15.239 be honest. I mean, the budget would be a lot 611 00:40:15.280 --> 00:40:23.190 less because... I know enough of how this Hollywood thing works, 612 00:40:23.309 --> 00:40:27.090 especially now. Just kind of a quick sidebar because I 613 00:40:27.130 --> 00:40:32.360 know someone's going to ask, what's up with the Bitterroot movie? 614 00:40:33.500 --> 00:40:39.820 The biggest thing right now is our script is a 615 00:40:39.900 --> 00:40:44.079 huge budget that the studios are trying to find a 616 00:40:44.119 --> 00:40:46.989 way to not spend that kind of money on a 617 00:40:48.460 --> 00:40:51.760 film with that kind of budget, especially if you want 618 00:40:51.780 --> 00:40:55.920 to tie some A-list actors in it, even just one. 619 00:40:56.340 --> 00:40:59.800 One could break the bank. These days, you know, that's 620 00:40:59.820 --> 00:41:04.570 just where things are. People are just, studios are just, 621 00:41:05.409 --> 00:41:09.250 you know, hand-wringing when it comes to new properties, even 622 00:41:09.269 --> 00:41:12.530 though our property, you know, has a following. It's still 623 00:41:12.699 --> 00:41:16.510 new in terms of Hollywood So that's where that is 624 00:41:16.570 --> 00:41:25.389 in a nutshell. But stuff like Clayface and your name, whatever. 625 00:41:25.510 --> 00:41:29.070 I heard Poison Ivy was going to be... I think 626 00:41:29.090 --> 00:41:30.659 that was going to be a show. I don't know 627 00:41:30.679 --> 00:41:33.239 if they're going to do it still or not. If 628 00:41:33.260 --> 00:41:37.500 you're going to make Poison Ivy a show, you probably 629 00:41:37.559 --> 00:41:40.760 should make Clayface a show. Although I heard that Clayface 630 00:41:41.400 --> 00:41:45.530 was going to be now... There is a thing... within 631 00:41:45.570 --> 00:41:51.329 the last two years where you've got these lower budget films, 632 00:41:51.389 --> 00:41:54.099 these A24 films, if you're familiar with that. 633 00:41:54.480 --> 00:41:55.019 Absolutely. 634 00:41:55.199 --> 00:41:58.840 Yes. They do these really, you know, like Back Rooms 635 00:41:58.920 --> 00:42:03.280 and what is the other one? Obsessions. Yeah. Yeah. You 636 00:42:03.320 --> 00:42:07.869 got these, these, these new voices that are creating these 637 00:42:08.030 --> 00:42:13.429 really interesting stories and they have interesting takes and, Like, 638 00:42:13.469 --> 00:42:16.489 if you can pull something like that off, which from 639 00:42:16.550 --> 00:42:21.090 what I saw in the trailer with Clayface, I think 640 00:42:21.130 --> 00:42:24.630 it's going to be like that. So you may end 641 00:42:24.730 --> 00:42:31.019 up having yourself a hit, which I do feel like 642

00:42:31.079 --> 00:42:35.099 that has more of a chance to be a hit 643 00:42:36.199 --> 00:42:41.559 because of all those parameters versus trying to do Supergirl, 644 00:42:42.239 --> 00:42:43.019 you know what I'm saying? Yeah. 645 00:42:43.780 --> 00:42:46.940 I do. No, you know, that's the thing, Sanford. I 646 00:42:47.000 --> 00:42:51.000 agree with you that sometimes it's like, well, it's a 647 00:42:51.039 --> 00:42:55.460 superhero movie. So it has to be, you know, $ 150 648 00:42:54.760 --> 00:42:57.019 million budget. And we got to put all these bells 649 00:42:57.059 --> 00:42:59.519 and whistles. And it's like, they all forget that like 650 00:42:59.559 --> 00:43:02.840 Deadpool was made for like 60 million and it made 651 00:43:02.840 --> 00:43:06.420 600 million. And nobody really gave a shit about Deadpool 652 00:43:06.699 --> 00:43:10.460 other than diehard Marvel fans. Sanford, I'm having a senior moment. 653 00:43:11.019 --> 00:43:12.989 Michael B. Jordan's movie where he played the brothers. 654 00:43:14.510 --> 00:43:15.070 Oh, sinners. 655 00:43:15.809 --> 00:43:21.789 Yeah, sinners. Exactly. With the success of sinners. Thank you. Seriously, 656 00:43:21.809 --> 00:43:23.639 I'm like, come on, John. I know it starts with 657 00:43:23.699 --> 00:43:30.760 an S. Come on, John. Come on. No, nothing. With 658 00:43:30.800 --> 00:43:35.159 the success of sinners, is that impacting in a positive 659 00:43:35.219 --> 00:43:37.730 way you guys getting more meetings for Bitterroot? 660 00:43:38.449 --> 00:43:41.809 So, John, I'm going to try to give you the skinny. 661 00:43:42.360 --> 00:43:45.789 on this, right? Because from day one, before the film 662 00:43:45.829 --> 00:43:52.309 was even in the theaters, we had Hollywood people reaching 663 00:43:52.349 --> 00:43:56.630 out to us or just insider people reaching out to us, 664 00:43:56.949 --> 00:44:04.210 asking us, is this Sinner's movie your Bitterroot movie? Renamed 665 00:44:04.349 --> 00:44:08.449 or repackaged or whatever. And, you know, of course we said, no, 666 00:44:08.949 --> 00:44:12.949 it's not that. You know, it's about You know what 667 00:44:12.969 --> 00:44:17.110 the story's about. This vampire is a thousand years old. 668 00:44:17.130 --> 00:44:18.949 It's coming back. It's not the same thing. And then 669 00:44:18.989 --> 00:44:21.869 we saw the trailer. And then we looked and we 670 00:44:21.889 --> 00:44:22.530 were like, huh. 671 00:44:23.070 --> 00:44:23.590 And then on. 672 00:44:26.579 --> 00:44:38.780 Top of the fact that Proximity has the film production 673 00:44:39.030 --> 00:44:43.159 rights They're not directing or anything like that, but just 674 00:44:43.219 --> 00:44:48.510 in terms of production proximity, which is Ryan Coogler's studio, 675 00:44:48.889 --> 00:44:52.289 a production company, they have the rights to Bitterroot, right? 676 00:44:52.829 --> 00:44:57.809 So we had to have a meeting. Long story short, 677 00:44:58.170 --> 00:45:00.610 it's none of those things. I always tell people, too, 678 00:45:01.139 --> 00:45:04.500 because there were so many people, John, so many people 679 00:45:04.559 --> 00:45:08.480 that thought it was, and they took the idea and 680 00:45:08.639 --> 00:45:11.650 all this stuff. No, it It's not the case. My 681 00:45:13.530 --> 00:45:15.809 thing that I say to people, and I think David 682 00:45:15.889 --> 00:45:18.949 and Chuck have said this as well, is that you 683 00:45:18.969 --> 00:45:24.909 can have more than one story that has black and 684 00:45:24.949 --> 00:45:29.949 brown folks fighting monsters. Sure. You've got a million different 685 00:45:29.989 --> 00:45:34.130 versions of Frankenstein. You've got a million different versions of Dracula. 686 00:45:34.969 --> 00:45:37.650 You fill in the blank. No one bats an eye 687 00:45:37.710 --> 00:45:42.989 when you see those stories. different takes of vampires and 688 00:45:43.050 --> 00:45:46.010 werewolves and all this stuff like that. And, you know, 689 00:45:46.050 --> 00:45:49.199 the minute you put some black folks on the screen fighting, 690 00:45:49.420 --> 00:45:55.900 I mean, because even Rodney Barnes with his Philadelphia book, right? 691 00:45:56.300 --> 00:45:58.460 Absolutely, man. I was going there. Keep going. 692 00:45:59.699 --> 00:46:04.349 Trust me, we've had talks with Rodney about how he's 693 00:46:04.369 --> 00:46:06.570 trying to pitch this thing and I was like, oh, 694 00:46:06.610 --> 00:46:09.739 we already got this so we already have blade or 695 00:46:09.780 --> 00:46:12.889 whatever he was like and you know my story is 696 00:46:12.909 --> 00:46:17.469 still different it's still different and it is rich and 697 00:46:17.610 --> 00:46:21.170 so it has a rich backstory and and it just 698 00:46:21.269 --> 00:46:25.769 happens to have those two elements that people just lump 699 00:46:25.869 --> 00:46:29.730 all of us together and think it's the same thing. 700 00:46:30.469 --> 00:46:32.869 And i understand that but also again you would think 701 00:46:33.590 --> 00:46:37.989 given hollywood's penchant For, oh, zombies are big. We need 702 00:46:38.030 --> 00:46:41.010 more zombies. Oh, we need more vampires. We need cute 703 00:46:41.050 --> 00:46:45.199 vampires like the Twilight shit and everything. And that truly 704 00:46:45.260 --> 00:46:48.440 that Sinners did kick the door down and also all 705 00:46:48.480 --> 00:46:51.699 the success that Kubler is having with a lot of 706 00:46:51.760 --> 00:46:54.969 his ideas. And I'll be honest, Sanford, I totally forgot 707 00:46:55.010 --> 00:46:58.099 that you guys were already in business with Kubler. about 708 00:46:58.139 --> 00:46:59.079 Bitterroot and everything. 709 00:46:59.199 --> 00:46:59.719 Yeah, man. 710 00:47:00.460 --> 00:47:03.750 And truly, not only Philadelphia with Rodney, but as you know, 711 00:47:04.110 --> 00:47:07.650 he and Jason Scott Alexander bringing Blade back in a 712

00:47:07.690 --> 00:47:14.179 great graphic novel. I'm an OG Blade fan. Not Blade, Blackula. 713 00:47:14.760 --> 00:47:16.059 I said Blade. 714 00:47:16.219 --> 00:47:18.760 As soon as you said Blade, I knew what you meant. 715 00:47:19.539 --> 00:47:21.590 I was going to I was going to correct you. 716 00:47:21.690 --> 00:47:23.909 I was like, oh, John. I can't see any moments. Absolutely. 717 00:47:24.230 --> 00:47:27.380 But no, man, I love the Blackula movies. And I 718 00:47:27.460 --> 00:47:32.179 saw the second one like within the last year. And 719 00:47:32.239 --> 00:47:34.980 it's like, there's William Marshall. My God, that guy. 720 00:47:35.820 --> 00:47:41.849 So cool. You know what's funny about me and David 721 00:47:41.889 --> 00:47:49.650 and Chuck? We had a panel yesterday. together. First time 722 00:47:49.849 --> 00:47:54.090 we were all three of us were together, um, in 723 00:47:54.510 --> 00:47:57.409 almost three years, we did a panel at dragon con, 724 00:47:57.800 --> 00:48:02.980 which was about two weeks ago now. Yeah. And, um, we, 725 00:48:04.019 --> 00:48:08.400 they both brought up, you know, those different films and 726 00:48:08.440 --> 00:48:13.639 how those films inspired, um, a lot of, especially, uh, 727 00:48:14.119 --> 00:48:19.760 I think David talked about the first, um, um, Oh gosh, 728 00:48:20.139 --> 00:48:22.630 the classic zombie movie. 729 00:48:22.650 --> 00:48:24.730 Night of the Living Dead? Night of the Living Dead. 730 00:48:25.090 --> 00:48:31.150 Yeah, and how that movie wasn't just about, it wasn't 731 00:48:31.190 --> 00:48:37.030 about zombies. It was about the relationships between black, white, 732 00:48:37.530 --> 00:48:43.139 you know, the racial component there. And I blurred it out. 733 00:48:43.800 --> 00:48:46.300 Never going to see it. Don't want to see it. 734 00:48:46.659 --> 00:48:54.780 because I hate horror movies. People were like, oh, really? 735 00:48:55.099 --> 00:49:00.110 People were so shocked because what they see, I've drawn, 736 00:49:00.250 --> 00:49:02.510 and you would think that I would be like, dude, 737 00:49:02.590 --> 00:49:07.409 I can't. And truth be told, being an artist, man, 738 00:49:07.889 --> 00:49:12.250 it's like we are such visual people. Either you're going 739 00:49:12.269 --> 00:49:14.590 to be all in on something like that, or I 740 00:49:15.289 --> 00:49:19.369 know artists that that they can't watch or can't do 741 00:49:19.429 --> 00:49:23.670 certain things because of it's, it's so, it is such 742 00:49:23.829 --> 00:49:30.099 a overstimulation of, I guess, information and it just sticks 743 00:49:30.139 --> 00:49:33.039 with you. It stays with you. So yeah, that's why 744 00:49:33.099 --> 00:49:39.159 I can't really do it. Like there are certain things, um, that, uh, 745 00:49:40.300 --> 00:49:43.880 That I just, like, I have to go for walks 746 00:49:44.139 --> 00:49:48.769 because I get overstimulated just if people are walking around

747 00:49:48.789 --> 00:49:51.570 in my, you know, I have a studio at home. 748 00:49:52.250 --> 00:49:54.969 And if they're walking around or just kind of doing things, 749 00:49:55.489 --> 00:50:01.849 I start feeling anxious. Especially if I'm at my desk 750 00:50:02.010 --> 00:50:04.510 for seven, eight hours, you know, I got to get out. 751 00:50:05.019 --> 00:50:07.019 So I go for a walk. Maybe it's just my 752 00:50:07.079 --> 00:50:09.420 old age right now where I'm like, I can't stand 753 00:50:09.519 --> 00:50:12.260 all that noise, you know, but you know, for me, 754 00:50:12.280 --> 00:50:16.800 I'm just, uh, yeah, I don't, I don't need any extra. 755 00:50:17.949 --> 00:50:24.230 Stimulation to keep me, you know, on edge. I, you know, 756 00:50:24.269 --> 00:50:28.349 I used to ask, um, Tim Seeley, um, when he 757 00:50:28.369 --> 00:50:31.659 was doing hack slash writing it and I'm like, and 758 00:50:31.880 --> 00:50:34.530 he's like, you know, I can't watch Buffy, uh, Because 759 00:50:34.789 --> 00:50:37.789 Buffy was happening when he was writing hash slash in 760 00:50:37.809 --> 00:50:40.349 the late 90s and early 2000s. And he's like, I 761 00:50:40.369 --> 00:50:43.460 don't want to be influenced by it from an art standpoint. 762 00:50:43.880 --> 00:50:46.880 Are you like that about horror? And if you are, 763 00:50:47.599 --> 00:50:51.039 where do your inspirations for the horror that you draw, 764 00:50:51.079 --> 00:50:51.880 where do they come from? 765 00:50:53.500 --> 00:50:59.369 My own sick, twisted mind. Things I come up with 766 00:50:59.469 --> 00:51:05.719 up here. At least I can control it on some level. Sure. 767 00:51:06.199 --> 00:51:11.070 I can't control whatever's being shown to me unless I 768 00:51:11.429 --> 00:51:15.269 look away or turn away. But even still, that still 769 00:51:15.389 --> 00:51:21.789 isn't coming from me. And so I just... And truth 770 00:51:21.809 --> 00:51:30.099 be told, honestly, within the last five, six years, just 771 00:51:30.239 --> 00:51:35.070 life There's a lot of, I mean, Bitterroot was kind 772 00:51:35.130 --> 00:51:41.170 of conceived based on just where things were starting to head. And, 773 00:51:41.949 --> 00:51:44.269 you know, that stuff is scary enough. 774 00:51:45.610 --> 00:51:50.360 Do you do, though, for the mysticism and the voodoo 775 00:51:50.400 --> 00:51:54.550 that is in Bitterroot? So, uh, you, you research, I 776 00:51:54.590 --> 00:51:57.030 would have, and then obviously, uh, Chuck and David as 777 00:51:57.110 --> 00:52:00.860 well from a writing standpoint. So, you know, yeah. I mean, 778 00:52:00.900 --> 00:52:03.500 how do you, how do you manifest, you know, the 779 00:52:03.539 --> 00:52:06.500 information that they give you and also how much of 780 00:52:06.539 --> 00:52:10.119 it of yourself are you, uh, you know, investigating in 781 00:52:10.179 --> 00:52:13.760 terms of the super supernatural aspects of Bitterroot? 782 00:52:15.190 -->

00:52:19.409 So on that panel, um, we talked about our process 783 00:52:19.849 --> 00:52:23.630 and how, um, they may have certain things in the 784 00:52:23.670 --> 00:52:26.929 script that I'm like, well, I need some visual, some 785 00:52:26.949 --> 00:52:30.349 kind of visual representation of that. Can you guys, you know, 786 00:52:30.409 --> 00:52:33.909 gather that, you know, gather what you're thinking about so 787 00:52:33.929 --> 00:52:35.510 that we can, you know, I can make sure I'm 788 00:52:35.530 --> 00:52:41.639 getting it right based on what you're asking. And so 789 00:52:41.719 --> 00:52:45.619 sometimes I have to, you know, hold my breath before 790 00:52:45.639 --> 00:52:48.239 I turn that image on because whatever it is that 791 00:52:48.280 --> 00:52:52.250 they're talking about, I need to make sure Like, okay, 792 00:52:52.969 --> 00:52:56.250 when I hit open, it's going to not, you know, 793 00:52:56.909 --> 00:53:01.989 have me scarred for life. And truth be told, I'm 794 00:53:02.030 --> 00:53:06.829 joking a little bit, but their visuals are so awesome 795 00:53:06.849 --> 00:53:11.719 because we are dealing with a lot more mysticism than anything. 796 00:53:11.780 --> 00:53:17.659 It's not so much horror, right? Because I think people 797 00:53:18.199 --> 00:53:24.369 think about, you know, they're fighting... these monsters, yes, that's 798 00:53:24.570 --> 00:53:28.789 an aspect of it, but the monster is derived from hate. So, 799 00:53:29.750 --> 00:53:33.590 you know, we just think about how ugly hate is for, 800 00:53:33.679 --> 00:53:37.119 you know, in any aspect. So you can just make 801 00:53:37.199 --> 00:53:40.940 up whatever. Honestly, I was looking at Kirby monsters when 802 00:53:40.980 --> 00:53:44.860 I was designing a lot of creatures and, you know, 803 00:53:44.940 --> 00:53:49.519 beasts and all that stuff. But the more intriguing things 804 00:53:50.320 --> 00:53:57.050 are the mysticism aspects of it. And like I said, 805 00:53:57.090 --> 00:54:02.380 to stay tuned, we're working on, again, just the grander 806 00:54:02.840 --> 00:54:07.960 scope of Bitterroot and what that looks like, why it's 807 00:54:10.139 --> 00:54:14.599 called that, you know, all those different aspects. The serums, 808 00:54:14.980 --> 00:54:18.139 if you remember how they fight these monsters using different 809 00:54:18.179 --> 00:54:22.260 types of serums, we're going to really kind of dig 810 00:54:22.320 --> 00:54:24.119 into all of those different aspects. 811 00:54:25.579 --> 00:54:26.940 That's a lot of research. 812 00:54:26.980 --> 00:54:28.260 That's for sure. 813 00:54:28.719 --> 00:54:31.960 No, but that's, that's really cool. And again, I always 814 00:54:31.980 --> 00:54:33.880 love talking to David. I haven't had Chuck on the 815 00:54:33.920 --> 00:54:37.920 show yet. Shame on me. Um, but I, uh, I had, 816 00:54:38.059 --> 00:54:40.929 I had David on, of course, mentioning, uh, uh, some 817 00:54:40.949

--> 00:54:43.840 of the old classic black exploitation horror, uh, when he, 818 00:54:43.889 --> 00:54:46.570 when he did his Blackenstein, uh, or yeah. 819 00:54:47.210 --> 00:54:54.730 He's a walking encyclopedia of this, uh, Horrible films. He's 820 00:54:54.769 --> 00:54:59.889 going to call them classics. He has such a vast 821 00:54:59.969 --> 00:55:05.159 knowledge of everything. The dude is a great resource. 822 00:55:06.219 --> 00:55:10.719 It is cool, though, that it really spawned this movement 823 00:55:11.300 --> 00:55:15.309 in Black filmmaking that That, again, and really, like, right 824 00:55:15.349 --> 00:55:19.550 alongside the Roger Cormans and later the Lloyd Kaufmans and 825 00:55:19.610 --> 00:55:22.570 people like that. And it's kind of, it's really interesting. 826 00:55:22.989 --> 00:55:27.340 Even the crappy Rudy Ray Moore movies. And they are terrible. 827 00:55:27.639 --> 00:55:28.480 They are terrible. 828 00:55:28.539 --> 00:55:29.079 Yeah, yeah. 829 00:55:29.099 --> 00:55:32.059 But again, God bless the guy for, like, he's the 830 00:55:32.159 --> 00:55:36.039 Ed Wood of Black Plantation in my mind in terms of, hey, 831 00:55:36.079 --> 00:55:37.820 I'm going to make this stuff. I can do this. 832 00:55:38.420 --> 00:55:42.000 And I loved Eddie Murphy's Dolomite movie that he made. 833 00:55:42.019 --> 00:55:42.099 Yeah. 834 00:55:42.969 --> 00:55:45.789 I thought that was... But it does. It really fascinates me. 835 00:55:46.130 --> 00:55:49.130 And then you get the... I hope I'm saying the 836 00:55:49.190 --> 00:55:51.550 right filmmaker. Was it Gordon Brown, I think, that did 837 00:55:51.570 --> 00:55:52.329 the Shaft movies? 838 00:55:54.190 --> 00:55:54.820 Sounds right. 839 00:55:55.260 --> 00:55:58.559 Yeah, I think it was Gordon Brown. And again, David 840 00:55:58.579 --> 00:55:59.820 would correct me if he was on the call. 841 00:55:59.840 --> 00:56:02.960 David would give you the first, middle, and last name 842 00:56:04.079 --> 00:56:08.300 and the years that they directed the films. 843 00:56:09.840 --> 00:56:14.079 Honestly, Sanford, I've had the pleasure of brief conversations with 844 00:56:14.119 --> 00:56:17.199 guys like Fred Williamson. And I'm like, tell me everything 845 00:56:17.239 --> 00:56:20.639 about hammer. Tell me everything about black Caesar and those 846 00:56:20.679 --> 00:56:24.130 movies and stuff. Cause Hey man, again, they were happening 847 00:56:24.349 --> 00:56:26.510 at the drive-ins on the weekends when I was a 848 00:56:26.530 --> 00:56:29.250 little kid in the seventies and I'd be reading about 849 00:56:29.289 --> 00:56:32.070 these things. And yeah, no. And I mean, also I 850 00:56:32.780 --> 00:56:34.300 had the chance when I talked to the first time 851 00:56:34.320 --> 00:56:36.420 I talked to Reggie Odlin, we're both talking about how 852 00:56:36.440 --> 00:56:39.280 much we love Bruce Lee. And it's like, all right, 853 00:56:39.949 --> 00:56:43.690 Little white

kid, little black kid, we both love Bruce Lee. 854 00:56:43.769 --> 00:56:47.349 It's like he was cool. Didn't matter. 855 00:56:47.949 --> 00:56:52.090 Little black kid, little white kid liking an Asian kid. 856 00:56:52.409 --> 00:56:55.579 That's what made it so special was that it was 857 00:56:56.380 --> 00:57:00.059 such a universal... Now, I can get down with that. 858 00:57:00.079 --> 00:57:04.920 Those Kung Fu licks. Oh my God. I was such 859 00:57:05.980 --> 00:57:07.900 a stand for those. 860 00:57:09.320 --> 00:57:14.650 Jim Brown? Oh, yeah. I can't remember the name of 861 00:57:14.860 --> 00:57:18.170 the movie. I know he's in Enter the Dragon, but 862 00:57:18.210 --> 00:57:20.829 what was his leading role? I forget. 863 00:57:22.190 --> 00:57:28.210 Well, he did a few. He did... He did... Don't 864 00:57:28.230 --> 00:57:32.039 get me started here because I might... No, that's fine. 865 00:57:32.059 --> 00:57:34.619 That's fine. Two old men on the porch. 866 00:57:34.900 --> 00:57:35.239 I don't know. 867 00:57:35.320 --> 00:57:41.909 Here's... actually um something i guess a bit of a 868 00:57:42.670 --> 00:57:48.769 uh of a exclusive we are looking at a better 869 00:57:48.809 --> 00:57:55.860 route we're looking to play in that era that's fantastic 870 00:57:55.880 --> 00:57:58.800 that's what everyone's been people have been waiting for that 871 00:57:59.340 --> 00:58:01.699 but you know part of the issue is with me 872 00:58:01.739 --> 00:58:05.929 and all my millions of projects and you know david's 873 00:58:05.969 --> 00:58:09.889 quite busy chuck's got stuff happening right now too um 874 00:58:10.070 --> 00:58:13.130 some pretty cool projects he's working on so just trying 875 00:58:13.170 --> 00:58:16.989 to nail down the perfect time to get stuff done 876 00:58:17.170 --> 00:58:20.409 and so what we're working on with this this next 877 00:58:21.030 --> 00:58:24.300 bitter root project is going to allow us to you 878 00:58:24.320 --> 00:58:26.900 know do you know do the stuff that we're are 879 00:58:26.940 --> 00:58:31.000 busy stuff separate stuff and um still come back and 880 00:58:31.500 --> 00:58:36.019 do this cool thing together too. So yeah, we're, we're, we're, 881 00:58:36.099 --> 00:58:40.789 we're quite, we are quite aware that the stories, the 882 00:58:40.829 --> 00:58:43.090 stories in the mythos is so rich that we can 883 00:58:43.130 --> 00:58:47.289 go anywhere in time and create these cool stories. 884 00:58:48.469 --> 00:58:51.449 No, I can appreciate that. And yes, I think again, 885 00:58:51.489 --> 00:58:54.309 I've loved the past, the decades that you've, the, where 886 00:58:54.329 --> 00:58:56.650 you've spent those stories, but no, it'll be great to 887 00:58:56.690 --> 00:58:59.920 see you. Yeah, absolutely. Get a little more relatable given the, 888 00:59:00.199 --> 00:59:02.619 That we've got, you know, the movies to reflect on 889 00:59:02.619 --> 00:59:06.320 and then see your guys spin

in that era and everything. Here, Um, 890 00:59:07.139 --> 00:59:10.219 Smoto says, big fan. I loved your power, man. And 891 00:59:10.260 --> 00:59:11.119 iron fist series. 892 00:59:11.360 --> 00:59:11.860 Oh, cool. 893 00:59:11.940 --> 00:59:15.639 Discovered your work. Love your style and your continued work. Well, 894 00:59:15.659 --> 00:59:18.340 that's cool. You and David doing power, man. And iron fist. 895 00:59:18.400 --> 00:59:21.039 Yeah. That's where it all started. Um, you know, my 896 00:59:21.059 --> 00:59:25.360 career pretty much took off pretty much around that time. And, um, 897 00:59:26.699 --> 00:59:31.639 obviously David and I, uh, first time actually it wasn't 898 00:59:31.699 --> 00:59:34.659 even our first time working together we worked on you 899 00:59:34.699 --> 00:59:39.159 mentioned shaft earlier um i did some covers for his 900 00:59:39.219 --> 00:59:42.949 shaft run at um was it idw i think it 901 00:59:42.969 --> 00:59:44.329 was idw. 902 00:59:44.590 --> 00:59:47.630 Yeah it was either that or dynamite yeah. 903 00:59:47.630 --> 00:59:50.710 One of those two companies but yeah that's that was 904 00:59:50.750 --> 00:59:54.769 the the beginning um and we got that opportunity to 905 00:59:55.030 --> 00:59:58.469 uh to do power man iron fist and um it 906 00:59:58.530 --> 01:00:04.050 is definitely a uh a, a special place, um, in 907 01:00:04.139 --> 01:00:05.989 our creative endeavors. 908 01:00:07.150 --> 01:00:10.409 That's great, man. Um, all right. You mentioned other projects. 909 01:00:11.010 --> 01:00:12.949 Am I right? I hope I, I know I'm going 910 01:00:12.969 --> 01:00:14.670 to get a half of the name correct for your 911 01:00:14.710 --> 01:00:16.730 animation company, secret sauce, right? 912 01:00:17.289 --> 01:00:19.369 Oh, dude, that, that was the funk. That's been the 913 01:00:19.429 --> 01:00:21.829 funk now for six years. 914 01:00:22.030 --> 01:00:22.789 Yeah. 915 01:00:22.989 --> 01:00:27.949 Yeah. I'm, I'm, I'm done. Hey, that's, that's cool that 916 01:00:27.989 --> 01:00:31.380 you remember the name, but, uh, no, we're, Dude, I 917 01:00:31.420 --> 01:00:35.019 could not keep up. Again, all the spinning plates, I 918 01:00:35.059 --> 01:00:39.070 couldn't keep up with that. Yeah, just couldn't do it. 919 01:00:39.500 --> 01:00:42.619 I am still working on some stuff. I'm actually working 920 01:00:42.639 --> 01:00:49.639 on Spider-Verse, the new film. I developed one of the 921 01:00:49.679 --> 01:00:53.449 main characters, one of the villains that's going to be 922 01:00:53.489 --> 01:00:56.750 featured in the film. Wow. Sorry, I just threw that 923 01:00:56.809 --> 01:00:57.190 out there. 924 01:00:58.989 --> 01:00:59.929 That's great, man. 925 01:00:59.949 --> 01:01:05.409 I didn't know that. But yeah, I worked on the 926 01:01:05.869 --> 01:01:11.059 second film as well. But that was more on the 927 01:01:11.320 --> 01:01:14.360 promotional side, which was a lot of fun too because 928

01:01:14.420 --> 01:01:18.199 I got to see my work everywhere. It was on 929 01:01:18.480 --> 01:01:26.309 everything from Trapper Keepers to Lunch Pails to happy meal, 930 01:01:27.309 --> 01:01:32.199 you know, happy meals and so on and so forth. Um, but, uh, 931 01:01:32.260 --> 01:01:35.960 this time around I'm working, uh, worked on the, uh, 932 01:01:36.179 --> 01:01:40.699 the visual development side, uh, just creating characters and designing 933 01:01:40.739 --> 01:01:44.679 characters and worlds and stuff like that. But yeah, there's one, 934 01:01:44.699 --> 01:01:49.619 there's one character specifically that I got a chance to, uh, uh, 935 01:01:49.699 --> 01:01:53.289 to design and, um, yeah, it's pretty cool from what 936 01:01:53.349 --> 01:01:58.110 I saw last, uh, If they don't Frankenstein it to death, 937 01:01:58.590 --> 01:02:01.789 it's going to be pretty much my actual design. 938 01:02:04.110 --> 01:02:07.179 Well, I'll be excited when the movie comes out and 939 01:02:08.019 --> 01:02:12.000 you'll be able to reveal which character it is. That's amazing, man. 940 01:02:12.719 --> 01:02:20.000 Arcadia Jeff says, 20 years from now, Sanford Green will 941 01:02:20.039 --> 01:02:22.699 be referred to in the same paragraph as Jack Kirby, 942 01:02:23.000 --> 01:02:26.260 Jim Steranko, Bernie Wrightson, etc. There you go, man. wow 943 01:02:26.420 --> 01:02:30.019 absolutely wow and uh here and pete says nothing better 944 01:02:30.039 --> 01:02:33.960 than those spider verse movies awesome yeah man well now 945 01:02:34.099 --> 01:02:36.719 i don't feel as bad having waited as long as 946 01:02:36.780 --> 01:02:40.630 we have for movie three yeah and i know that 947 01:02:40.650 --> 01:02:43.409 you're involved in everything because yeah man it's uh you 948 01:02:43.449 --> 01:02:45.230 know it's so funny much like what you're doing with 949 01:02:45.269 --> 01:02:49.530 lanterns i'm holding off seeing the second movie until i 950 01:02:49.570 --> 01:02:52.070 know well i want to wait until i know the 951 01:02:52.449 --> 01:02:55.260 third movie is only like a month away or weeks 952 01:02:55.320 --> 01:02:58.929 away I did that 30 years ago, however long it was, 953 01:02:59.289 --> 01:03:01.929 for Back to the Future. I remember doing that in 954 01:03:01.949 --> 01:03:04.630 the early 90s, where I'm like, especially when people are like, oh, 955 01:03:04.670 --> 01:03:07.289 it's a middle movie. You know, they're doing a third movie. 956 01:03:07.610 --> 01:03:10.150 And I literally waited until, like, it was like a 957 01:03:10.250 --> 01:03:13.730 month before that it had come out on VHS. And 958 01:03:13.809 --> 01:03:15.670 I'm like, all right, now I'll see two, because I 959 01:03:15.690 --> 01:03:18.280 know I'll see three in a couple weeks, and I'll 960 01:03:18.320 --> 01:03:19.889 feel better about it and stuff. 961 01:03:20.940 --> 01:03:26.820 I guess movies are different, but I can... understand your 962 01:03:26.849 --> 01:03:31.409 viewpoint that it's the second one. Did you do that 963 01:03:31.849 --> 01:03:35.929 with Empire Strikes Back, knowing that there was going to 964 01:03:35.949 --> 01:03:37.110 be Return of the Jedi? No. 965 01:03:37.510 --> 01:03:38.070 No, I did not. 966 01:03:38.449 --> 01:03:41.929 I absolutely did not. That's why you should watch this one, 967 01:03:41.969 --> 01:03:46.059 because I do believe this... Now, again, I don't... Knowing 968 01:03:46.280 --> 01:03:51.280 kind of where the story is going, you know, the 969 01:03:51.340 --> 01:03:54.400 second film and this third one, if they pull it off, 970 01:03:54.519 --> 01:03:59.380 is going to be... you know, right up there. But yeah, 971 01:03:59.429 --> 01:04:02.940 I think you would, you would enjoy this. I think 972 01:04:02.980 --> 01:04:06.619 it has the same level of impact as Empire Strikes Back. 973 01:04:07.840 --> 01:04:08.059 All right. 974 01:04:08.099 --> 01:04:08.559 Fair enough. 975 01:04:08.739 --> 01:04:10.079 That might piss you off. I don't know. 976 01:04:10.860 --> 01:04:14.690 Not, no, not at all. No, no, no. Are you kidding? Dude, 977 01:04:14.710 --> 01:04:17.289 it's always great to see you. It really means a lot. 978 01:04:17.409 --> 01:04:19.449 As I said off the air, it really means a 979 01:04:19.469 --> 01:04:21.670 lot that you come back and it has been so 980 01:04:21.809 --> 01:04:25.539 much fun being ringside with, of the evolution of your career. 981 01:04:25.679 --> 01:04:28.840 I remember those early days when you told me that, 982 01:04:28.920 --> 01:04:30.820 and you were doing things like you had to be 983 01:04:31.019 --> 01:04:33.980 on model for things like the Legion of superheroes cartoon. 984 01:04:34.159 --> 01:04:38.260 Oh yeah. And, and those kinds of gigs. And finally 985 01:04:38.679 --> 01:04:40.949 you were able to break out and really let people know, no, 986 01:04:41.110 --> 01:04:41.789 I can do this. 987 01:04:42.550 --> 01:04:42.710 Right. 988 01:04:42.730 --> 01:04:45.309 And, uh, and, and, you know, I'm, I'm so glad 989 01:04:45.710 --> 01:04:48.510 that the publishers have responded, that the animation people have 990 01:04:48.530 --> 01:04:52.789 responded and, uh, really excited about what's coming for bitter road, both, uh, 991 01:04:53.949 --> 01:04:56.650 on paper and on screen. But in the meantime, and 992 01:04:56.690 --> 01:04:58.510 am I able to scroll? I'm not able to scroll. 993 01:04:58.610 --> 01:05:00.780 I'm going to try and see if I can scroll here. 994 01:05:00.969 --> 01:05:03.500 We're going to bounce around a little bit. Hold on. 995 01:05:04.619 --> 01:05:09.920 Hold on. Can you hear me, everybody? Hang on. Sorry 996 01:05:09.940 --> 01:05:12.639 about that. All right, there we go. Sorry about that, everybody. 997 01:05:13.059 --> 01:05:14.880 Didn't mean to wink away. All right, it's not letting 998 01:05:14.900 --> 01:05:17.230 me bring up the covers again, but we will remind

999 01:05:17.289 --> 01:05:20.409 people that Dark Side vs. the World comes out in 1000 01:05:20.429 --> 01:05:24.179 like five weeks, everybody. It's coming out in October. It's 1001 01:05:24.199 --> 01:05:27.079 Scott Snyder. It's Sanford Green. And it's going to start 1002 01:05:27.199 --> 01:05:30.920 answering these questions of what happened to Darkseid after KO. 1003 01:05:31.420 --> 01:05:34.880 So that's great. And yeah, man. And I'm excited about 1004 01:05:34.900 --> 01:05:37.360 what's coming. So, all right, let's make sure sooner than 1005 01:05:37.400 --> 01:05:40.929 later when things are announced, because I know you said 1006 01:05:40.949 --> 01:05:43.809 there's more projects that are going to be announced in 1007 01:05:43.849 --> 01:05:46.510 the ensuing weeks and months. Are you doing New York? 1008 01:05:46.550 --> 01:05:48.269 Are you going to New York Comic Con? 1009 01:05:48.369 --> 01:05:50.590 Yes, I'll be in New York. There should be a 1010 01:05:50.630 --> 01:05:59.320 few announcements there. Um, so be on the lookout for that. Um, yeah, 1011 01:05:59.340 --> 01:06:02.280 FLC final order is, uh, I think the third October 1012 01:06:02.500 --> 01:06:06.739 3rd for dark side. So if you guys, um, if 1013 01:06:06.780 --> 01:06:10.820 you will, please do that. Tell your friends. Um, so 1014 01:06:10.860 --> 01:06:13.340 from what I've heard so far, it's, it's doing great. 1015 01:06:13.599 --> 01:06:18.260 It's going to be, um, one of those, one of those, uh, 1016 01:06:19.280 --> 01:06:22.309 books that's going to do well. So I'm excited about it. And, um, 1017 01:06:22.780 --> 01:06:23.199 Stay tuned. 1018 01:06:24.360 --> 01:06:28.219 That's excellent, man. Great to see you. I appreciate it. 1019 01:06:29.139 --> 01:06:33.059 You know you're always welcome back. We'll go through more 1020 01:06:33.119 --> 01:06:37.860 tangents and talk more about things beyond comics as we 1021 01:06:37.909 --> 01:06:38.320 always do. 1022 01:06:38.719 --> 01:06:39.639 Go Gamecocks. 1023 01:06:42.829 --> 01:06:46.050 Stanford Green, everybody. Tomorrow I'm going to be recording with 1024 01:06:46.090 --> 01:06:49.530 a couple Star Trek writers, including my dear friend Christopher 1025 01:06:49.570 --> 01:06:52.849 Cantwell because there's some great new Star Trek comic book 1026 01:06:52.869 --> 01:06:55.550 series starting for IDW. Hey, wow, John's going to talk 1027 01:06:55.590 --> 01:06:58.710 about Star Trek. He never talks about Star Trek. No, no, no. 1028 01:06:58.829 --> 01:07:00.550 Go figure. 1029 01:07:00.570 --> 01:07:03.989 Go figure it did. So that's going to be recorded tomorrow, 1030 01:07:04.360 --> 01:07:07.519 and I'll be presenting those late Thursday night, Friday morning. 1031 01:07:07.840 --> 01:07:09.340 So I hope you'll join me. Next week's going to 1032 01:07:09.360 --> 01:07:12.260 be a great week. Matt Fraction coming back. Eddie Muller, 1033 01:07:12.500 --> 01:07:17.179 the Noir Alley Turner Classic Movies movie host, is a 1034 01:07:17.260 --> 01:07:19.519 massive comic book fan, and we're going to learn all 1035 01:07:19.559 --> 01:07:22.630 about Eddie Muller's favorite comic books, not only crime comics, 1036 01:07:22.969 --> 01:07:25.570 but superheroes as well. So that's just a taste of 1037 01:07:25.610 --> 01:07:29.170 what's coming next week on Word Balloon Live. And that'll 1038 01:07:29.190 --> 01:07:31.230 wrap up this edition of Word Balloon. Thanks a lot 1039 01:07:31.250 --> 01:07:34.030 for listening. John Sutris reminding you that if you have 1040 01:07:34.070 --> 01:07:37.090 any questions or comments about the show, reach me via email, 1041 01:07:37.429 --> 01:07:41.960 john at wordballoon.com. And if you listen on iTunes or 1042 01:07:41.980 --> 01:07:44.599 wherever you get your podcasts, make sure you like and 1043 01:07:44.639 --> 01:07:47.760 subscribe to the show, write a review, hit that bell 1044 01:07:47.820 --> 01:07:50.809 if you're on YouTube, the whole schmear. Until next time, 1045 01:07:50.849 --> 01:07:54.440 Word Balloon is a copyright feature of Shaky Productions. Copyright 2026.