Full Transcript for E2 - Why Romance Needs to Come Back | with Hak Baker

and something 68 00:04:36.720 --> 00:04:42.260 that comes through so strongly for me in your lyrics is this dance between chaos and calm yes 69 00:04:42.721 --> 00:04:47.200 and like vulnerability and strength and I just love the way you hold that paradox 70 00:04:47.802 --> 00:04:54.580 in your music is that from those early years yeah yeah yeah um i guess we were probably the last 71 00:04:54.660 --> 00:05:01.160 generation of young people that would literally go out and live um we left a few of us that was 72 00:05:01.240 --> 00:05:07.160 leaving our homes from like 14 15 years old and we felt that we had the power and the strength 73 00:05:07.240 --> 00:05:11.620 and the knowledge that was passed down to us from our parents and the community we had hope in the 74 00:05:11.640 --> 00:05:17.000 community there so uh they would elder people would look after us and and and lend a helping 75 00:05:17.120 --> 00:05:22.800 hand to us and if we was misbehaving they would tell us and whatnot so um we went out and we felt 76 00:05:22.820 --> 00:05:28.100 that we had the strength but we you know we also probably didn't have the emotional maturity to 77 00:05:28.220 --> 00:05:35.379 maintain ourselves so we um depending on each other a lot bounced off each other a lot and i 78 00:05:35.680 --> 00:05:39.960 think there goes the seance of between the girls and the boys at that time it was just like a dance 79 00:05:40.140 --> 00:05:46.020 of chaos and calm, as you said, and feelings and hopefulness and sadness, 80 00:05:46.280 --> 00:05:48.319 but we were all just leaning and bouncing off each other, 81 00:05:48.900 --> 00:05:53.040 ricocheting off each other per day to how we would survive. 82 00:05:53.220 --> 00:05:56.960 And if we could smile that day, our friend would try and make you smile 83 00:05:56.980 --> 00:05:59.840 or share their food with you or share their drink with you or whatever. 84 00:06:00.080 --> 00:06:03.356 So it was like it was that, and I feel like I've just grown up 85 00:06:04.762 --> 00:06:09.520 amongst that paradox, as you said, of all these different angles and spaces. 86 00:06:10.501 --> 00:06:20.580 And I think they're all relevant and they're all necessary to find yourself and then be at peace with yourself, which I'm trying to find now. 87 00:06:21.502 --> 00:06:24.880 Hearing you describe the past reminds me of Celebratory Times. 88 00:06:25.163 --> 00:06:25.700 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 89 00:06:25.740 --> 00:06:27.760 Which is in one of your songs, right? 90 00:06:27.880 --> 00:06:27.990 Yeah. 91 00:06:28.281 --> 00:06:29.480 The Best Days of Our Lives? 92 00:06:29.707 --> 00:06:30.040 Absolutely. 93 00:06:30.581 --> 00:06:32.520 And yeah, it's one of my favourite songs. 94 00:06:32.720 --> 00:06:33.267 Thank you. 95 00:06:33.308 --> 00:06:34.280 I'm glad, I'm glad. 96 00:06:34.544 --> 00:06:35.760 How did you get to that? 97 00:06:36.743 --> 00:06:42.600 how did you manage to capture like I guess a period of your life and communicate it in a short 98 00:06:42.660 --> 00:06:49.420 snippet such as a song you have to love what you've done you know and be unapologetic about it 99 00:06:52.347 --> 00:06:58.020 I'm lucky enough to have loved what I've done and our friends and family that you know 100 00:06:59.003 --> 00:07:04.800 have supported me and made me proud you know and at the time when I was writing that song 101 00:07:05.788 --> 00:07:07.100 I must have just felt like that 102 00:07:07.442 --> 00:07:09.499 I feel like what I do 103 00:07:10.447 --> 00:07:11.738 is literally just 104 00:07:13.328 --> 00:07:15.580 a cathartic episode of how I feel 105 00:07:15.661 --> 00:07:16.879 of like ejaculating 106 00:07:17.930 --> 00:07:18.920 feeling onto the paper 107 00:07:19.484 --> 00:07:21.680 so that's just how I felt at the time 108 00:07:22.677 --> 00:07:22.779 and 109 00:07:23.486 --> 00:07:23.991 looking back at 110 00:07:25.849 --> 00:07:27.000 my life or our life 111 00:07:27.020 --> 00:07:29.520 because I always feel like it's plural 112 00:07:29.540 --> 00:07:31.860 or I wouldn't be where I am without 113 00:07:32.548 --> 00:07:33.560 my friends and family 114 00:07:34.587 --> 00:07:36.460 it's deemed for celebration 115 00:07:36.883 --> 00:07:39.040 we've held on to our character vehemently 116 00:07:39.587 --> 00:07:40.399 and not let it go 117 00:07:40.642 --> 00:07:42.480 no matter what has built round us 118 00:07:42.601 --> 00:07:43.920 or tried to push us aside 119 00:07:44.041 --> 00:07:45.740 or ostracise us from each other 120 00:07:45.821 --> 00:07:47.179 or isolate us from each other 121 00:07:47.763 --> 00:07:50.320 you're just not really going to get that from us 122 00:07:50.380 --> 00:07:51.800 so I think it's a celebration 123 00:07:52.726 --> 00:07:54.799 of bravery between my friends and I 124 00:07:55.725 --> 00:07:58.020 and that's probably how I felt at the time 125 00:07:58.040 --> 00:08:00.010 and we could be at a low 126 00:08:02.504 --> 00:08:04.839 but you just go to the party and dance and have a laugh 127 00:08:05.383 --> 00:08:08.060 and then look back and say, you know, it's all right, you know. 128 00:08:08.621 --> 00:08:09.100 It's all right. 129 00:08:09.341 --> 00:08:11.420 That's probably where it came from, you know what I mean? 130 00:08:12.901 --> 00:08:15.480 What comes to mind as you speak, Hack, 131 00:08:15.861 --> 00:08:19.420 and as you sing and in your lyrics is this word brotherhood. 132 00:08:19.580 --> 00:08:19.688 Yeah. 133 00:08:20.222 --> 00:08:21.160 And I feel like, 134 00:08:21.300 --> 00:08:23.680 I don't know if you've seen Louis Theroux's documentary, 135 00:08:23.841 --> 00:08:24.460 Mado's Fear. 136 00:08:24.641 --> 00:08:25.580 Yeah, I see a bit of that, yeah. 137 00:08:26.041 --> 00:08:29.520 And I just really would love you to reflect on brotherhood, 138 00:08:29.943 --> 00:08:32.440 on that word and what it means right now 139 00:08:32.581 --> 00:08:36.500 because I think we need your

perspective on this, to be frank. 140 00:08:36.801 --> 00:08:38.580 Basically, like, none of us are perfect. 141 00:08:38.680 --> 00:08:41.300 First of all, I'm not perfect, but all that Manusphere is just rubbish. 142 00:08:41.640 --> 00:08:46.440 I don't really get how that's being rolled out 143 00:08:46.501 --> 00:08:47.540 and winning at the moment. 144 00:08:47.740 --> 00:08:51.080 But, you know, again, I feel like it's lack of community 145 00:08:51.341 --> 00:08:54.636 because if people had people to look up to within that reach, 146 00:08:55.661 --> 00:08:59.440 they wouldn't be looking up to, like, idiots online, you know. 147 00:09:00.161 --> 00:09:17.360 And men are allowed to be men, but men know, real men know that being a man is being empathetic and in touch with your emotions and close to your friends and being able to have conversations with them and not, you know, looking down at women as items or subjects, you know. 148 00:09:17.460 --> 00:09:28.940 So I was raised by women, you know, and again, I'm not a perfect individual, but like in my eyes, women, I was raised by my big sisters and my mum, especially, and my grandma who I wear in my ring every day. 149 00:09:29.761 --> 00:09:31.370 So, like, I just... 150 00:09:33.606 --> 00:09:34.578 Brotherhood... 151 00:09:37.791 --> 00:09:40.160 Brotherhood enables you to survive, basically. 152 00:09:40.661 --> 00:09:42.280 And it could be called sisterhood as well. 153 00:09:42.680 --> 00:09:45.040 It's all encapsulated in the same terms. 154 00:09:45.860 --> 00:09:48.680 My friend Tananiye, like, she was, like, 155 00:09:49.081 --> 00:09:50.440 academically a year younger than me, 156 00:09:50.480 --> 00:09:53.040 but when I didn't have anywhere to stay and things like that, 157 00:09:53.141 --> 00:09:55.820 she was probably the one... 158 00:09:55.900 --> 00:09:57.200 She took me in and, you know, 159 00:09:57.623 --> 00:09:59.780 she's probably going through the same kind of things of her family 160 00:09:59.901 --> 00:10:01.780 but washed my clothes and fed me, do you know what I mean? 161 00:10:04.421 --> 00:10:09.740 So I have this thing where I feel like I own my friends and family all the time 162 00:10:10.985 --> 00:10:14.640 and I always try to look to support them as much as I can 163 00:10:14.801 --> 00:10:16.980 and with as much energy that I have spare. 164 00:10:19.441 --> 00:10:23.340 So I think brotherhood again goes back to believing in the person 165 00:10:23.440 --> 00:10:28.340 that stands next to you and using them as crutches and being a crutch for them 166 00:10:30.303 --> 00:10:39.660 and i think it's a lifelong job that's what it is for me that's beautiful well thank you for the 167 00:10:39.740 --> 00:10:47.100 answer and i guess community what happens in my head is we need almost a reason to come together 168 00:10:47.542 --> 00:10:52.040 and i think that's what you so beautifully do through your work um because your words and your 169 00:10:52.060 --> 00:10:56.280 words i feel like we don't even need a reason and i feel like it's huge like it's naturally 170 00:10:56.380 --> 00:11:01.760 like it's human nature to come together why would you not want to come together with people and 171 00:11:02.162 --> 00:11:06.540 right immediately when i come in here and then we started talking i can hear our differences but it 172 00:11:06.580 --> 00:11:11.060 makes me intrigued yeah you know so i want to know more do you know i mean there's i don't see no 173 00:11:11.160 --> 00:11:16.380 barriers here so it's intriguing that's what life is you know we should all learn and talk and share 174 00:11:16.862 --> 00:11:21.439 like it's natural but is it just natural to us because we are lucky enough to have the 175 00:11:21.740 --> 00:11:26.780 consciousness and foresight to look past the as you say the powers that be that seek to divide us 176 00:11:26.880 --> 00:11:31.860 whether it's through technology whether it's through conversational silos you know I think a 177 00:11:31.920 --> 00:11:37.700 lot of people unfortunately have somehow been cut off from that natural instinct to community 178 00:11:37.800 --> 00:11:43.800 yeah and your music you know not to kind of be too fluffy about it but it does bring people back 179 00:11:43.880 --> 00:11:51.140 to that point I feel yeah well yeah that's our human nature is to talk and touch and share do 180 00:11:51.180 --> 00:11:51.560 You know what I mean? 181 00:11:51.620 --> 00:11:55.100 And I feel like a lot of it now is done on the communication device. 182 00:11:55.200 --> 00:11:56.000 Is that what you called it earlier? 183 00:11:56.120 --> 00:11:56.680 The scroll device. 184 00:11:56.901 --> 00:11:57.400 The scroll device. 185 00:11:57.580 --> 00:11:58.000 You know what I mean? 186 00:11:58.020 --> 00:11:58.779 Yeah, I love that. 187 00:11:59.520 --> 00:12:00.660 It's no longer a phone. 188 00:12:00.780 --> 00:12:01.860 A phone is like, where are you, mate? 189 00:12:01.940 --> 00:12:03.300 Yeah, sweet, I'm coming to meet you. 190 00:12:03.623 --> 00:12:04.120 You know what I mean? 191 00:12:04.180 --> 00:12:05.320 This is the scrolling device. 192 00:12:05.440 --> 00:12:05.979 I like that. 193 00:12:06.580 --> 00:12:09.620 Yeah, I'm trying to disassociate myself with the scrolling device as well. 194 00:12:09.801 --> 00:12:10.480 We're calling it SD. 195 00:12:10.660 --> 00:12:11.497 We're going to call it the SD. 196 00:12:12.804 --> 00:12:13.699 It doesn't sound good, right? 197 00:12:14.303 --> 00:12:15.160 Yeah, I know. 198 00:12:15.581 --> 00:12:16.679 But yeah, I hear you. 199 00:12:16.820 --> 00:12:20.240 But I definitely feel like it's a generational situation. 200 00:12:20.300 --> 00:12:22.980 Now, the younger generation, I feel a bit sorry for them 201 00:12:23.000 --> 00:12:25.660 because they don't have that need to feel to go outside and climb a tree 202 00:12:25.782 --> 00:12:26.600 or run down the street. 203 00:12:26.720 --> 00:12:27.919 They

want to live here. 204 00:12:28.720 --> 00:12:34.000 But, yeah, I guess if my music can help spread or alleviate the mind, 205 00:12:34.140 --> 00:12:35.439 then hopefully so be it. 206 00:12:36.306 --> 00:12:37.760 But, yeah, I kind of do agree. 207 00:12:39.282 --> 00:12:43.057 I feel at age, I feel like under 30s, like under 27 or 25, 208 00:12:44.160 --> 00:12:47.020 they're just like, oh, in this place of this thing 209 00:12:47.702 --> 00:12:54.540 when the real joy of life is outside and and totally nature and people do you know i mean but 210 00:12:55.383 --> 00:13:00.400 yeah i guess we can all do what we can do to try and you know help and spread the word of 211 00:13:00.921 --> 00:13:06.740 communication but it's hard yeah yeah i wonder if there is 212 00:13:08.826 --> 00:13:13.199 a word that summarizes where you feel you're at in your life right now 213 00:13:14.414 --> 00:13:14.840 Oh, God. 214 00:13:18.683 --> 00:13:21.360 I don't know the exact word, I think. 215 00:13:22.521 --> 00:13:28.280 I feel like I'm probably at a turning point of a war, 216 00:13:29.181 --> 00:13:31.180 but when someone starts to win a war, 217 00:13:33.467 --> 00:13:35.020 I don't know what that word would be. 218 00:13:36.344 --> 00:13:37.900 But I guess that's how I feel. 219 00:13:38.742 --> 00:13:44.660 I feel like it's been a long, long journey within myself. 220 00:13:46.423 --> 00:13:48.300 And, yeah, it hasn't been easy. 221 00:13:48.540 --> 00:13:50.719 There's definitely several battles that I've lost, 222 00:13:51.702 --> 00:13:54.560 but I feel like I'm winning more of those battles these days. 223 00:13:57.941 --> 00:14:03.720 So, yeah, I guess momentous, I would say. 224 00:14:03.961 --> 00:14:06.140 I feel like the momentum is turning in my favour. 225 00:14:06.825 --> 00:14:08.900 so I guess that could be the word. 226 00:14:09.180 --> 00:14:09.740 That's beautiful 227 00:14:10.487 --> 00:14:11.900 and we have heard that you've got an album 228 00:14:12.224 --> 00:14:13.319 that you're working on right now. 229 00:14:13.540 --> 00:14:15.260 Yeah, yeah, that's what it's all about. 230 00:14:15.500 --> 00:14:16.377 Yeah, can you tell us a bit more 231 00:14:16.520 --> 00:14:17.839 about what you've been working on? 232 00:14:18.981 --> 00:14:21.660 Yeah, I was shuffling with exactly the ideas 233 00:14:21.700 --> 00:14:22.980 of what it was all about 234 00:14:23.101 --> 00:14:27.340 but again, my friend and my team 235 00:14:27.461 --> 00:14:29.760 was very adamant that it was finished 236 00:14:30.205 --> 00:14:31.420 even at the end of last year 237 00:14:32.268 --> 00:14:33.379 and I was like, it can't be 238 00:14:33.944 --> 00:14:36.060 because I'm changing so fast 239 00:14:36.160 --> 00:14:39.680 at the moment and I'm coming out, I'm stepping into a new place 240 00:14:39.740 --> 00:14:42.480 at the moment, it can't be, I need to keep recording. 241 00:14:44.523 --> 00:14:46.640 So that's when I realised, completely realised, 242 00:14:46.761 --> 00:14:50.680 I had an idea that it was more of an innate look inside, 243 00:14:50.820 --> 00:14:54.720 but then I came to certainty that it was definitely about, 244 00:14:54.860 --> 00:14:57.120 which is more of like a very, very personal affair. 245 00:14:59.164 --> 00:15:00.620 So that's what it's about really. 246 00:15:00.900 --> 00:15:03.980 And one of the tunes, I think the penultimate tune on the album 247 00:15:05.408 --> 00:15:07.560 with such a great geezer. 248 00:15:08.386 --> 00:15:09.879 I don't want to, I'll tell you after. 249 00:15:10.427 --> 00:15:10.556 Okay. 250 00:15:10.701 --> 00:15:12.300 I don't want to release it yet. 251 00:15:12.560 --> 00:15:12.817 Okay. 252 00:15:13.081 --> 00:15:15.098 And it's called I'm at War, you know. 253 00:15:17.661 --> 00:15:21.180 But yeah, it says, I say I'm going to win. 254 00:15:22.423 --> 00:15:23.960 So yeah, it's just about myself. 255 00:15:24.261 --> 00:15:25.399 I feel the power of that. 256 00:15:25.720 --> 00:15:26.067 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 257 00:15:26.961 --> 00:15:30.120 You have to be selfish sometimes, you know, 258 00:15:30.481 --> 00:15:31.899 and go towards you. 259 00:15:32.102 --> 00:15:33.700 as I said it's good to give 260 00:15:33.700 --> 00:15:34.120 give, give, give 261 00:15:34.281 --> 00:15:37.379 with as much strength and vitality that you have 262 00:15:38.288 --> 00:15:39.519 and then you have to nurture yourself 263 00:15:39.843 --> 00:15:41.660 so I felt like I really needed to do a project 264 00:15:41.862 --> 00:15:43.359 about totally myself 265 00:15:44.553 --> 00:15:45.039 so I can 266 00:15:45.826 --> 00:15:47.460 step into the new shoes 267 00:15:47.500 --> 00:15:48.659 that are just outside the door 268 00:15:49.289 --> 00:15:49.959 for the next chapter 269 00:15:50.040 --> 00:15:52.520 I hope those shoes will be comfortable 270 00:15:52.984 --> 00:15:54.539 because these shoes will be rocking 271 00:15:54.741 --> 00:15:55.146 I love it 272 00:15:57.647 --> 00:15:59.560 it reminds me of your previous album titles 273 00:15:59.620 --> 00:16:00.460 because you have Babylon 274 00:16:00.480 --> 00:16:00.562 yeah 275 00:16:01.688 --> 00:16:02.340 these are not albums 276 00:16:02.482 --> 00:16:03.459 I've only had one album 277 00:16:03.683 --> 00:16:04.620 which is World's End of Femme 278 00:16:04.620 --> 00:16:05.039 but Babylon 279 00:16:05.303 --> 00:16:06.599 Babylon was a song 280 00:16:06.701 --> 00:16:07.308 it was Babylon 281 00:16:08.646 --> 00:16:09.418 people called it an album 282 00:16:09.541 --> 00:16:10.200 I said it was a mixtape 283 00:16:10.282 --> 00:16:11.220 right a mixtape 284 00:16:11.260 --> 00:16:12.198 yeah yeah yeah 285 00:16:12.320 --> 00:16:13.620 because I like seeing the story 286 00:16:13.742 --> 00:16:14.880 from Babylon the mixtape 287 00:16:15.125 --> 00:16:15.779 to World's End 288 00:16:15.986 --> 00:16:16.340 yeah yeah 289 00:16:16.423 --> 00:16:16.899 Lost Hope 290 00:16:17.001 --> 00:16:18.137 yeah

yeah yeah 291 00:16:18.380 --> 00:16:18.740 absolutely 292 00:16:18.862 --> 00:16:19.760 and now it sounds like 293 00:16:19.821 --> 00:16:20.778 this next album is 294 00:16:21.516 --> 00:16:21.660 yeah 295 00:16:21.660 --> 00:16:23.119 does he slay the dragon 296 00:16:23.972 --> 00:16:24.459 slaying 297 00:16:24.708 --> 00:16:25.000 slaying 298 00:16:25.000 --> 00:16:26.020 the war is aggressive 299 00:16:26.203 --> 00:16:27.299 look at the paintings in the room 300 00:16:27.651 --> 00:16:27.879 the war 301 00:16:28.266 --> 00:16:29.139 the war is happening 302 00:16:29.509 --> 00:16:29.919 but like 303 00:16:30.184 --> 00:16:31.219 I cut one of the heads off. 304 00:16:31.702 --> 00:16:33.934 They grow back sometimes. 305 00:16:35.060 --> 00:16:35.275 Exactly. 306 00:16:36.980 --> 00:16:37.380 Sometimes. 307 00:16:37.580 --> 00:16:37.854 They do. 308 00:16:38.820 --> 00:16:39.740 But you're on it. 309 00:16:39.840 --> 00:16:40.237 Yeah, I'm on it. 310 00:16:40.400 --> 00:16:40.680 I'm on it. 311 00:16:40.720 --> 00:16:41.940 I'm on its back at the moment. 312 00:16:42.220 --> 00:16:42.326 Yeah. 313 00:16:42.940 --> 00:16:47.200 I mean, I guess the reason I say that is because you have said before in interviews that you 314 00:16:47.221 --> 00:16:47.940 like medieval times. 315 00:16:48.680 --> 00:16:49.739 You like medieval music. 316 00:16:49.940 --> 00:16:50.680 You like medieval culture. 317 00:16:51.300 --> 00:16:54.860 And this, the hero's journey is very alive in medieval literature. 318 00:16:55.240 --> 00:16:55.260 Absolutely. 319 00:16:55.340 --> 00:16:55.860 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 320 00:16:55.921 --> 00:16:57.900 And so it's beautiful to hear you reflect on it. 321 00:16:57.960 --> 00:17:00.660 I actually have a medieval poem that I found for you. 322 00:17:00.783 --> 00:17:01.099 Oh, lovely. 323 00:17:01.361 --> 00:17:02.280 Would you want me to read it? 324 00:17:02.361 --> 00:17:02.699 Please, please. 325 00:17:02.741 --> 00:17:03.120 Can I? 326 00:17:03.200 --> 00:17:04.178 It feels a bit indulgent. 327 00:17:04.462 --> 00:17:05.060 No, let's hear it. 328 00:17:05.764 --> 00:17:06.860 It's one of my favourites. 329 00:17:06.940 --> 00:17:08.520 And when I saw you liked medieval poetry, 330 00:17:08.681 --> 00:17:10.420 it is translated to modern English, 331 00:17:11.482 --> 00:17:12.940 but I would just love your thoughts on it. 332 00:17:13.040 --> 00:17:16.600 So it's called Love and the Gentle Heart by Dante Alighieri. 333 00:17:18.381 --> 00:17:20.460 Love and the gentle heart are one thing, 334 00:17:20.963 --> 00:17:23.200 just as the poet says in his verse, 335 00:17:23.920 --> 00:17:26.000 each from the other one is well divorced, 336 00:17:26.243 --> 00:17:27.900 as reason from the mind's reasoning. 337 00:17:28.800 --> 00:17:31.580 Nature craves love and then creates love's king 338 00:17:32.225 --> 00:17:34.240 and makes the heart a palace where he'll stay, 339 00:17:34.860 --> 00:17:36.580 perhaps a shorter or a longer

day, 340 00:17:36.840 --> 00:17:38.740 breathing quietly, gently slumbering. 341 00:17:39.401 --> 00:17:41.620 Then beauty in a virtuous woman's face 342 00:17:41.801 --> 00:17:43.919 makes the eyes yearn and strikes the heart 343 00:17:44.564 --> 00:17:46.640 so that the eye's desire is reborn again 344 00:17:46.881 --> 00:17:49.180 and often rooting there with longing stays. 345 00:17:49.960 --> 00:17:52.820 Till love at last out of its dreaming starts, 346 00:17:53.100 --> 00:17:55.800 woman's moved likewise by a virtuous man. 347 00:17:56.702 --> 00:18:04.600 wonderful thank you i love that it's yours oh wonderful there's also some notes on it about 348 00:18:05.322 --> 00:18:12.020 yeah the relationship to love and i just think there's such an amazing quality in medieval 349 00:18:12.341 --> 00:18:17.160 writing yeah well they was out there in it like there weren't nowhere to hide i didn't have no 350 00:18:17.240 --> 00:18:17.322 SDs 351 00:18:18.690 --> 00:18:19.039 they had 352 00:18:19.121 --> 00:18:19.679 they would 353 00:18:19.903 --> 00:18:19.985 SDs 354 00:18:21.102 --> 00:18:21.183 SDs 355 00:18:22.545 --> 00:18:22.628 SDs 356 00:18:23.003 --> 00:18:23.107 SDs 357 00:18:23.441 --> 00:18:24.178 okay okay 358 00:18:24.709 --> 00:18:25.260 scrolling device 359 00:18:25.507 --> 00:18:25.816 yeah yeah 360 00:18:25.981 --> 00:18:26.288 not STDs 361 00:18:26.842 --> 00:18:27.009 SDs 362 00:18:27.300 --> 00:18:28.219 they probably had 363 00:18:28.302 --> 00:18:28.800 lots of them 364 00:18:28.821 --> 00:18:29.079 oh yeah 365 00:18:29.100 --> 00:18:29.678 they probably did 366 00:18:30.187 --> 00:18:30.715 they had short 367 00:18:31.162 --> 00:18:31.776 life expectancies 368 00:18:32.146 --> 00:18:32.519 poor sons 369 00:18:33.030 --> 00:18:33.540 anyway but 370 00:18:34.131 --> 00:18:34.559 yeah they 371 00:18:35.490 --> 00:18:36.300 the way they wrote 372 00:18:37.071 --> 00:18:37.640 I owe 373 00:18:37.763 --> 00:18:38.439 and I owe it all 374 00:18:38.541 --> 00:18:39.800 to my English teacher 375 00:18:39.943 --> 00:18:40.700 Miss Starkey 376 00:18:40.700 --> 00:18:41.077 I remember 377 00:18:41.324 --> 00:18:41.980 I was lucky enough 378 00:18:42.001 --> 00:18:42.498 to have her from 379 00:18:43.049 --> 00:18:43.640 year 7 380 00:18:43.845 --> 00:18:44.439 to year 381 00:18:44.521 --> 00:18:44.562 10 382 00:18:45.480 --> 00:18:46.220 so I unfortunately 383 00:18:46.366 --> 00:18:46.720 left school 384 00:18:46.720 --> 00:18:47.880 at the end of year 10, I think. 385 00:18:48.320 --> 00:18:52.560 But she always used to read, you know, 386 00:18:52.700 --> 00:18:56.400 Shakespearean and medieval text with such prose 387 00:18:56.601 --> 00:19:00.500 and she'd prance around the room and talk 388 00:19:00.681 --> 00:19:03.940 and use pitch and tone and things like that. 389 00:19:04.121 --> 00:19:07.059 I learned of her so much. 390 00:19:09.323 --> 00:19:11.900 And she had the knack to get all the naughty kids, 391 00:19:12.020 --> 00:19:18.840 me, Tommy Flay, Cassie Griffiths, Omar, Haled, like, to listen. 392 00:19:19.285 --> 00:19:19.460 Wow. 393 00:19:21.466 --> 00:19:24.860 And then she'd give us a chance to read as well and to say, you know, 394 00:19:24.900 --> 00:19:26.160 express yourself, you know. 395 00:19:26.803 --> 00:19:27.439 She was amazing. 396 00:19:27.600 --> 00:19:28.660 She didn't take no rubbish. 397 00:19:28.820 --> 00:19:31.560 And if we was ever rude or being naughty, she'd scream at us, 398 00:19:31.580 --> 00:19:32.100 chuck you out. 399 00:19:32.400 --> 00:19:35.920 But then she would never judge you for that behaviour the next day. 400 00:19:36.844 --> 00:19:37.819 And you'll be right in. 401 00:19:37.920 --> 00:19:43.100 And so I owe my love to her and, you know, medieval poetry and all that to Miss Starkey. 402 00:19:43.200 --> 00:19:45.640 She was a great, great, great English teacher. 403 00:19:46.460 --> 00:19:49.200 I just felt like, you know, they was really into love and romance. 404 00:19:49.300 --> 00:19:52.540 Probably all that they had to look forward to, you know, didn't have much else. 405 00:19:52.761 --> 00:19:56.440 That's the outdoors and love, the three things, the best things. 406 00:19:57.280 --> 00:20:01.800 So I guess that's probably why they concentrated and wrote so well, man. 407 00:20:02.541 --> 00:20:03.307 It's infectious. 408 00:20:03.590 --> 00:20:04.740 That made me really happy. 409 00:20:05.524 --> 00:20:09.040 just talking about love you know like we're talking about all this rubbish all these other 410 00:20:09.180 --> 00:20:18.560 things and you know um the vanity and rubbish but it's really only wholly only about love and 411 00:20:18.580 --> 00:20:23.240 falling in love with yourself and then falling and finding a lifelong partner and that's what 412 00:20:23.260 --> 00:20:28.980 i've finally figured out you know i mean so i won't take no i don't i won't like the love that 413 00:20:29.020 --> 00:20:31.057 I want need and want is exquisite. 414 00:20:32.282 --> 00:20:32.719 Exquisite. 415 00:20:32.900 --> 00:20:33.117 Yeah. 416 00:20:33.761 --> 00:20:35.779 I won't like settle for anything less, 417 00:20:35.980 --> 00:20:36.260 you know? 418 00:20:36.540 --> 00:20:36.652 So, 419 00:20:37.927 --> 00:20:38.136 yes. 420 00:20:38.722 --> 00:20:39.339 That's beautiful. 421 00:20:39.462 --> 00:20:40.240 It's a great poem. 422 00:20:40.340 --> 00:20:41.616 I really enjoyed that poem. 423 00:20:42.654 --> 00:20:42.740 Oh, 424 00:20:42.841 --> 00:20:43.740 I'm really glad. 425 00:20:43.960 --> 00:20:44.180 I mean, 426 00:20:44.340 --> 00:20:44.454 it's, 427 00:20:44.621 --> 00:20:46.718 it's beautiful to me how it finds, 428 00:20:47.020 --> 00:20:48.298 love finds its place in nature. 429 00:20:48.840 --> 00:20:54.300 And I think that's also what we've lost slightly is that the natural world is in constant harmony with itself. 430 00:20:54.560 --> 00:20:54.735 Oh yeah. 431 00:20:54.880 --> 00:20:55.100 You know,

432 00:20:55.324 --> 00:20:55.979 it has a chaos. 433 00:20:56.221 --> 00:20:57.000 It has an absolute, 434 00:20:57.703 --> 00:20:57.995 you know, 435 00:20:59.248 --> 00:21:00.880 the aggression and the violence, 436 00:21:01.040 --> 00:21:01.920 but it is in harmony. 437 00:21:02.180 --> 00:21:03.440 And it's like, as human beings, 438 00:21:03.521 --> 00:21:04.959 I think that's where love guides us, 439 00:21:05.101 --> 00:21:05.679 is to harmony. 440 00:21:06.504 --> 00:21:07.800 Are we going to hear some love songs 441 00:21:07.861 --> 00:21:08.899 in your new album then, huh? 442 00:21:10.522 --> 00:21:11.755 There's one, there's one. 443 00:21:13.145 --> 00:21:14.300 I think there's one, there's one. 444 00:21:14.461 --> 00:21:15.400 Actually, there is one, 445 00:21:15.581 --> 00:21:17.280 but it's quite sad, but yeah. 446 00:21:17.844 --> 00:21:18.940 Actually, there's a couple actually. 447 00:21:19.460 --> 00:21:20.180 There we are, there we are. 448 00:21:20.801 --> 00:21:22.640 I think I actually start talking about 449 00:21:23.205 --> 00:21:24.800 my love situations 450 00:21:24.800 --> 00:21:26.119 and why my heart is broken 451 00:21:26.200 --> 00:21:27.334 in there 452 00:21:28.193 --> 00:21:28.338 so 453 00:21:29.052 --> 00:21:29.378 which is 454 00:21:29.480 --> 00:21:30.078 I don't really 455 00:21:30.140 --> 00:21:30.560 I haven't really 456 00:21:30.601 --> 00:21:31.279 spoke about that 457 00:21:31.363 --> 00:21:31.739 before 458 00:21:32.793 --> 00:21:33.340 I've just always 459 00:21:33.381 --> 00:21:34.099 just spoke about 460 00:21:34.407 --> 00:21:34.980 the magnetic 461 00:21:35.041 --> 00:21:35.840 connection between 462 00:21:36.006 --> 00:21:36.379 people 463 00:21:36.400 --> 00:21:37.360 but I haven't 464 00:21:37.401 --> 00:21:38.019 spoke about my 465 00:21:38.060 --> 00:21:38.899 own reason why 466 00:21:39.224 --> 00:21:40.480 mine feels like 467 00:21:40.849 --> 00:21:41.300 at times just 468 00:21:41.341 --> 00:21:41.880 two negatives 469 00:21:42.289 --> 00:21:42.433 but 470 00:21:42.902 --> 00:21:43.023 yeah 471 00:21:44.300 --> 00:21:46.280 I think 472 00:21:46.322 --> 00:21:46.737 as I said 473 00:21:46.820 --> 00:21:48.260 I think things 474 00:21:48.341 --> 00:21:50.020 are reverting 475 00:21:50.020 --> 00:21:50.084 for 476 00:21:51.516 --> 00:21:51.799 the right 477 00:21:51.986 --> 00:21:52.340 reasons 478 00:21:52.469 --> 00:21:52.554 and 479 00:21:52.640 --> 00:21:52.883 definitely 480 00:21:54.736 --> 00:21:54.819 and 481 00:21:55.843 --> 00:22:00.540 and I hear a broken heart what comes to my mind is kintsugi the Japanese art form 482 00:22:01.062 --> 00:22:05.260 oh my god yes where they break things and they do it with gold it's beautiful 483 00:22:05.721 --> 00:22:12.600 yeah love that yeah yeah I went to Japan a couple of years ago I love my sister Japan 484 00:22:12.700 --> 00:22:19.219 it's amazing place uh how do you pronounce it again I'm not um native I mean I'm not 485 00:22:19.660

--> 00:22:28.380 yeah yeah i love that and i think it translates to golden joinery which refers to how you 486 00:22:28.661 --> 00:22:34.900 piece the broken parts of porcelain together with gold absolutely and you cherish the brokenness or 487 00:22:35.000 --> 00:22:41.960 you you don't deny it i think that's important never never i randomly i was with a goldie he's 488 00:22:42.020 --> 00:22:48.720 like i was and he told me about that he was talking about stuff and um he was like it reminds 489 00:22:48.880 --> 00:22:55.180 me of kitsugi there we go yeah and now i was like what's that and he explained it to me and i was 490 00:22:56.103 --> 00:23:01.260 i was overwhelmed that was amazing i thought what a great analogy what great thinking to 491 00:23:01.621 --> 00:23:06.678 you know fix things yeah with gold right make it even better yes you know i mean yeah it's 492 00:23:07.240 --> 00:23:13.300 wonderful i feel like the japanese language has so many and arabic actually too has so many arabic 493 00:23:13.360 --> 00:23:18.860 has 20 words for love i think and we have one yeah in the english language to summarize every 494 00:23:18.980 --> 00:23:24.880 form of love i think it's where other languages can offer so much more complexity to emotion 495 00:23:25.121 --> 00:23:31.120 yeah yeah i see that japanese they have all these amazing phrases and terms the things that humans 496 00:23:31.602 --> 00:23:36.420 just float through you know or go through and they've got these amazing terms typically japanese 497 00:23:36.641 --> 00:23:42.820 you know they always concentrate on the finer details suits them and it does help when you 498 00:23:42.920 --> 00:23:47.360 hear those concepts to kind of express what you might be feeling inside yes yeah when you were 499 00:23:47.380 --> 00:23:55.020 speaking about your english teacher i was wondering whether she was almost giving you tools to express 500 00:23:55.100 --> 00:24:00.120 what's bubbling inside i think she was man she's like a working class lady from that southeast 501 00:24:00.280 --> 00:24:09.140 london i think she knew the importance of these tools to um you know cut through life with and 502 00:24:09.200 --> 00:24:15.280 I've definitely used language to communicate wherever I've been. 503 00:24:18.404 --> 00:24:20.760 I think people forget, obviously words are amazing, 504 00:24:20.880 --> 00:24:24.079 but even the way how you use them or elongate them 505 00:24:24.662 --> 00:24:27.760 or how sharp you are with them or how you pitch them, 506 00:24:28.401 --> 00:24:29.840 you know, is so important, you know, 507 00:24:29.941 --> 00:24:31.740 to let someone know that if you love them, 508 00:24:31.800 --> 00:24:34.580 you accentuate even the love, make it longer. 509 00:24:35.583 --> 00:24:36.520 Enjoy it, yeah. 510 00:24:36.842 --> 00:24:38.799 You know, let them know I love you. 511 00:24:39.025 --> 00:24:39.559 do you know what I mean 512 00:24:39.580 --> 00:24:40.739 a bit of gravel on it 513 00:24:40.800 --> 00:24:41.359 do you know what I mean 514 00:24:41.549 --> 00:24:41.676 so 515 00:24:42.415 --> 00:24:42.640 yeah 516 00:24:42.822 --> 00:24:44.840 the poetry of words 517 00:24:45.210 --> 00:24:45.559 is just 518 00:24:47.078 --> 00:24:47.240 yeah 519 00:24:47.585 --> 00:24:48.660 when you add rhymes to it 520 00:24:48.660 --> 00:24:48.751 yeah 521 00:24:49.005 --> 00:24:49.499 oh god 522 00:24:49.893 --> 00:24:50.018 yeah 523 00:24:50.140 --> 00:24:51.670 I get that from my dad 524 00:24:53.280 --> 00:24:53.719 because like 525 00:24:53.761 --> 00:24:54.257 he's got this 526 00:24:54.525 --> 00:24:55.080 innate skill 527 00:24:55.162 --> 00:24:55.839 where he just talks 528 00:24:55.922 --> 00:24:56.480 and he rhymes 529 00:24:57.130 --> 00:24:57.780 and he looks at me 530 00:24:57.883 --> 00:24:58.360 and he giggles 531 00:24:58.546 --> 00:24:58.960 and he says 532 00:24:59.001 --> 00:24:59.979 you'll never be better than me 533 00:25:00.020 --> 00:25:00.799 I said yes I will 534 00:25:01.224 --> 00:25:02.658 you know 535 00:25:03.186 --> 00:25:03.879 he just talks 536 00:25:04.062 --> 00:25:05.320 at a rhyme 537 00:25:05.484 --> 00:25:06.039 all the time 538 00:25:06.405 --> 00:25:07.379 he's very good 539 00:25:08.095 --> 00:25:08.280 yeah 540 00:25:09.403 --> 00:25:15.980 when you talk about um words as tools it really makes me have this visualization of you hat going 541 00:25:16.040 --> 00:25:20.540 through the thorn bushes to find the dragon with your words yeah yeah you know like the words are 542 00:25:20.600 --> 00:25:27.120 the way in absolutely slaying these dragons and these demons the words to yourself are the way 543 00:25:27.220 --> 00:25:34.040 to win you know you curse yourself daily then you're gonna words are powerful spellings they're 544 00:25:34.040 --> 00:25:38.920 spells you know you cast these other spells on yourself do you know what i mean so it's like 545 00:25:39.081 --> 00:25:42.740 converging the words of goodness towards yourself it can be wholesome to yourself 546 00:25:43.463 --> 00:25:46.779 and you can start to heal yourself on your own you know not always looking for 547 00:25:48.745 --> 00:25:54.240 healing externally you know it's got to be done internally before you're even able to be a patient 548 00:25:54.360 --> 00:26:00.920 to anybody else so yeah i've just tried to use the words as kind tools even though they are weapons 549 00:26:01.021 --> 00:26:04.060 for that dragon that I am, you know, currently, 550 00:26:04.760 --> 00:26:07.400 the war we met last night while I was sleeping and all that. 551 00:26:09.882 --> 00:26:12.175 But yeah, yeah, it starts here first. 552 00:26:14.282 --> 00:26:17.320 We're going to take a brief moment to reflect on the word trunk. 553 00:26:18.167 --> 00:26:18.899 What comes to your mind? 554 00:26:19.540 --> 00:26:22.000 Trunk of a tree, the trunk of the body, 555 00:26:22.400 --> 00:26:24.100 a trunk that you carry items in. 556 00:26:25.021 -->

00:26:26.680 Yes, and all of these meanings, 557 00:26:26.841 --> 00:26:29.860 they come from the same Latin origin, truncus, 558 00:26:30.384 --> 00:26:32.300 which literally translates to lopped off. 559 00:26:32.640 --> 00:26:33.159 Lopped off? 560 00:26:33.540 --> 00:26:35.800 Yes, I guess the idea is if you think of a tree 561 00:26:36.908 --> 00:26:38.480 and you get rid of the branches, 562 00:26:39.082 --> 00:26:40.639 what is left is the tree trunk. 563 00:26:41.242 --> 00:26:43.560 And the same applies to the human body, right? 564 00:26:43.780 --> 00:26:45.960 If you take away the arms and legs, 565 00:26:46.160 --> 00:26:47.720 what's left is the trunk. 566 00:26:48.582 --> 00:26:50.719 Ah, so if you take the trunk that you travel with 567 00:26:50.881 --> 00:26:52.819 and you remove all non-essentials, 568 00:26:52.920 --> 00:26:55.820 what's left with is the core of your wardrobe. 569 00:26:56.324 --> 00:26:56.640 Exactly. 570 00:26:57.161 --> 00:26:59.120 So it really asks you what is worth carrying, 571 00:26:59.221 --> 00:27:01.479 what is worth bringing on your next trip. 572 00:27:02.724 --> 00:27:04.320 And it is today's word 573 00:27:04.481 --> 00:27:06.960 because it is also sponsored by Trunk Clothiers, 574 00:27:07.784 --> 00:27:09.419 a wonderful menswear shop. 575 00:27:09.920 --> 00:27:11.560 In London, in Chiltern Street. 576 00:27:11.941 --> 00:27:12.499 And in Zurich. 577 00:27:13.303 --> 00:27:15.380 And they have sponsored the episode 578 00:27:15.803 --> 00:27:17.720 and provided this beautiful outfit. 579 00:27:17.820 --> 00:27:18.578 So I'm going to get up. 580 00:27:19.463 --> 00:27:20.198 But before I do that, 581 00:27:21.720 --> 00:27:23.780 clothes, they do connect you to words, 582 00:27:23.820 --> 00:27:24.700 or at least for me, 583 00:27:24.900 --> 00:27:27.400 because I do feel confident when I speak, 584 00:27:28.002 --> 00:27:32.020 when I know I'm wearing something that has this contemporary style. 585 00:27:32.922 --> 00:27:35.860 I'm going to get up now so you have a bit of a better view. 586 00:27:36.540 --> 00:27:37.006 Wonderful. 587 00:27:37.046 --> 00:27:38.160 And for all our audio listeners, 588 00:27:38.881 --> 00:27:42.800 I will narrate Benjamin Aston wearing a beautiful, 589 00:27:43.620 --> 00:27:46.360 almost linen textured blazer from Trunk 590 00:27:46.481 --> 00:27:48.240 that looks very dapper and fits him perfectly. 591 00:27:48.341 --> 00:27:50.180 How does it feel to wear this Trunk outfit? 592 00:27:50.781 --> 00:27:52.100 Yes, I guess that's the important part. 593 00:27:52.484 --> 00:27:53.600 How does the clothes make you feel? 594 00:27:53.700 --> 00:27:55.600 And I feel confident. 595 00:27:56.462 --> 00:28:02.440 and maybe one of the reasons is that there is a beautiful pocket for my pen and it looks elegant 596 00:28:02.801 --> 00:28:09.340 suave you look suave suave i guess is the word and it's not too like yeah it doesn't constrain you 597 00:28:09.540 --> 00:28:15.000 good um but yeah before we get too carried away talk about clothes let's get back to the words 598 00:28:15.582 --> 00:28:22.220 in the episode see you there i have um a lyric that i would like to bring into this conversation 599 00:28:22.280 --> 00:28:29.040 from your song bricks in the wall yeah yeah yeah built it so high i can't see who i was before 600 00:28:29.442 --> 00:28:33.160 yeah and i was just curious to hear a bit more about this wall that you've built 601 00:28:35.585 --> 00:28:42.080 uh yeah um it's a pro and a con you know sometimes you use the wall so people can't 602 00:28:42.361 --> 00:28:49.500 get to walls out but you know the wall that bricks in the walls about is about 603 00:28:50.022 --> 00:28:55.560 foundation of people and solitude you know i mean yeah and you build that wall together 604 00:28:57.485 --> 00:29:02.760 and you together you become stronger you know i mean so you have the person who you was before 605 00:29:03.322 --> 00:29:09.240 you don't recognize that person anymore because together you fulfilled each other and made yourself 606 00:29:09.421 --> 00:29:14.720 stronger and that's basically what bricks and walls completely about it's like coming together 607 00:29:16.351 --> 00:29:17.680 and I'm winning. 608 00:29:17.980 --> 00:29:20.240 Come together and we'll come together. 609 00:29:21.100 --> 00:29:21.739 It's beautiful. 610 00:29:22.020 --> 00:29:23.600 Yeah, that's what we've got to do. 611 00:29:23.720 --> 00:29:26.940 As I said, propaganda is propagating. 612 00:29:27.242 --> 00:29:27.920 It's dangerous. 613 00:29:29.084 --> 00:29:30.520 It's very, very, very dangerous 614 00:29:30.802 --> 00:29:33.560 and it's easy for people to just take that up 615 00:29:34.451 --> 00:29:35.080 and believe it. 616 00:29:35.666 --> 00:29:36.259 We've seen it. 617 00:29:36.702 --> 00:29:37.499 It's not a new tool. 618 00:29:38.280 --> 00:29:38.739 No. 619 00:29:40.223 --> 00:29:42.060 It's a strong and useful tool. 620 00:29:42.060 --> 00:29:45.000 or if someone pokes you with the same message time and time again, 621 00:29:45.140 --> 00:29:46.699 people begin to believe it. 622 00:29:47.563 --> 00:29:49.099 But if you come together and communicate, 623 00:29:49.580 --> 00:29:53.920 then you can see and feel that that's not true, you know? 624 00:29:54.600 --> 00:29:58.960 So that's the use of bricks in the wall, you know, your own foundations. 625 00:29:59.221 --> 00:30:04.000 So you don't need to be empowered by rubbish or propaganda. 626 00:30:05.942 --> 00:30:07.140 We're in a really bad... 627 00:30:07.160 --> 00:30:09.299 It's being used badly at the moment. 628 00:30:09.660 --> 00:30:10.720 It's a bad place. 629 00:30:12.243 --> 00:30:13.300 And it can get better, right? 630 00:30:13.461 --> 00:30:14.240 Of course it can. 631 00:30:14.260 --> 00:30:15.099 Forever the optimist. 632 00:30:15.280 --> 00:30:15.412 Yeah. 633 00:30:15.820 --> 00:30:17.019 Are you not an optimist? 634 00:30:17.262

--> 00:30:17.939 I'm a little bit. 635 00:30:18.080 --> 00:30:20.440 I mean, my background is activism, you know, 636 00:30:20.581 --> 00:30:22.780 so I'm kind of, I'm a bit of the, like, warrior. 637 00:30:23.100 --> 00:30:25.760 Like, I feel it's important to identify. 638 00:30:26.263 --> 00:30:26.780 I hear you. 639 00:30:26.860 --> 00:30:29.320 You know, whereas Ben is, and it's a beauty. 640 00:30:29.561 --> 00:30:31.218 I sort of wish I was much more like. 641 00:30:31.440 --> 00:30:32.160 It's not delusional. 642 00:30:32.381 --> 00:30:33.200 It's not delusional. 643 00:30:33.940 --> 00:30:37.580 And also what I admire about Ben is that he is so precise 644 00:30:37.681 --> 00:30:39.499 about how he uses words and I use words. 645 00:30:39.620 --> 00:30:43.880 So if I say, you know, the propaganda is, if you say it's that, 646 00:30:43.960 --> 00:30:44.759 it's going to be that. 647 00:30:45.020 --> 00:30:45.999 Because words are powerful. 648 00:30:47.445 --> 00:30:48.500 I think you've both got points. 649 00:30:48.600 --> 00:30:50.680 I think I'll sit right in the middle between a pair here. 650 00:30:50.920 --> 00:30:51.520 Do you know what I mean? 651 00:30:51.663 --> 00:30:52.000 Amazing. 652 00:30:52.524 --> 00:30:52.820 Yeah. 653 00:30:53.344 --> 00:30:54.719 I was more like you. 654 00:30:55.146 --> 00:30:55.380 Yeah. 655 00:30:55.801 --> 00:30:56.580 Like, nah. 656 00:30:57.000 --> 00:31:00.640 But then I feel like if you don't have belief that it ain't going to change, 657 00:31:00.780 --> 00:31:04.260 to be fair, but I do feel the change does come with activation. 658 00:31:05.360 --> 00:31:05.838 It's a balance. 659 00:31:06.281 --> 00:31:14.320 yeah we do need some action at the moment i think there's been a lot of talking and soft protests 660 00:31:14.762 --> 00:31:18.540 definitely and actions do speak louder than words i am fully aware of that 661 00:31:18.961 --> 00:31:24.520 i'm not just out here but i also think it starts with words because words for me they are a 662 00:31:24.540 --> 00:31:28.980 reflection of your mental life yeah yeah and the foundation that you so beautifully described 663 00:31:29.904 --> 00:31:33.780 is what we all need right because how can you feel secure in yourself if you have a shaky 664 00:31:33.940 --> 00:31:39.260 foundation how can you come together and support each other when you don't have the foundation for 665 00:31:39.320 --> 00:31:45.460 yourself no i agree i think it does start with words but but then i think it must lead with 666 00:31:45.540 --> 00:31:50.380 action after the slaying of the dragons they're not going to give up just by reciting poetry 667 00:31:50.380 --> 00:31:58.800 they're not they're not unfortunately um yeah i do feel like we've spoken about or you've spoken 668 00:31:58.920 --> 00:32:05.340 about the war from within and i do wonder if do you think hack that the wars that we're seeing 669 00:32:05.480 --> 00:32:10.840 externally are a result of the conflict

we all hold within us do you see macro and macro in that 670 00:32:11.241 --> 00:32:20.740 in that sense um no i believe that the wars that we're seeing outside are just between stupid men 671 00:32:21.643 --> 00:32:27.400 and ego and old systems that they don't want to let go of you know they don't want to see 672 00:32:27.741 --> 00:32:34.900 the baton of power being passed over changes you know constant and i think there's psychopaths 673 00:32:34.920 --> 00:32:39.200 that don't want to let go of what they've had and i think it's basically as simple as that 674 00:32:39.240 --> 00:32:44.679 unfortunately i don't think these i don't think the wars that we're seeing outside are matters of 675 00:32:45.081 --> 00:32:50.780 men's or women's hearts at all i think it's all up here and it's all ego and it's all 676 00:32:51.482 --> 00:32:58.840 finance base and it's just rubbish and it's sad that people's lives are being spilled for 677 00:32:59.723 --> 00:33:04.820 the ego of man and on that note i was gonna ask you whether you would have any 678 00:33:05.261 --> 00:33:11.860 piece of advice for the men or the boys the men out there um what it is to be masculine or how 679 00:33:12.040 --> 00:33:18.920 how can how can that transition from boy to man be one that supports the the wider community 680 00:33:21.798 --> 00:33:22.039 I think 681 00:33:23.267 --> 00:33:25.120 people should start to use the tools that we're 682 00:33:25.201 --> 00:33:27.400 blessed with, our eyes, our senses 683 00:33:27.440 --> 00:33:29.100 our ears, feeling 684 00:33:29.302 --> 00:33:31.340 touch and use 685 00:33:31.340 --> 00:33:33.020 that as navigation, if something 686 00:33:33.222 --> 00:33:35.079 feels wrong innately in your heart 687 00:33:35.345 --> 00:33:36.020 then it's wrong 688 00:33:37.007 --> 00:33:38.840 don't be swayed by mass opinion 689 00:33:39.062 --> 00:33:41.079 or anything like that, if you know something's 690 00:33:41.181 --> 00:33:42.540 wrong then act on it 691 00:33:42.944 --> 00:33:44.640 look for serious proper leaders 692 00:33:44.640 --> 00:33:45.419 that are out there 693 00:33:46.365 --> 00:33:48.800 our senses, we're always 694 00:33:48.861 --> 00:33:49.660 looking for teachers. 695 00:33:49.840 --> 00:33:52.040 We're never too old to sit at somebody's feet, you know. 696 00:33:53.061 --> 00:33:55.120 So I think search that out, really, 697 00:33:55.521 --> 00:33:57.092 and listen to yourself, really, 698 00:33:59.204 --> 00:34:01.578 because there ain't no lessons on the phone. 699 00:34:02.722 --> 00:34:02.856 Yeah. 700 00:34:04.664 --> 00:34:05.900 The senses are important. 701 00:34:07.661 --> 00:34:09.980 You see someone that's sad on the street, 702 00:34:10.220 --> 00:34:12.980 my innate feeling is to try and help them. 703 00:34:13.602 --> 00:34:15.320 I can't stand seeing someone crying 704 00:34:15.441 --> 00:34:17.160 or seeing them sad on the street. 705 00:34:17.262 --> 00:34:18.200 I have to talk to them. 706 00:34:18.261 --> 00:34:20.580 and see if I can do anything to help them. 707 00:34:21.040 --> 00:34:22.579 If you follow those senses in life, 708 00:34:23.200 --> 00:34:24.400 then I don't think you can go wrong. 709 00:34:26.725 --> 00:34:27.560 The senses, yeah. 710 00:34:28.621 --> 00:34:33.460 It's beautifully complex how we all experience reality, 711 00:34:33.520 --> 00:34:34.900 I guess, in a very different way. 712 00:34:36.243 --> 00:34:37.420 Some might be more like visually, 713 00:34:37.742 --> 00:34:38.597 some might be more like auditory. 714 00:34:39.260 --> 00:34:40.580 And I was going to ask you today, 715 00:34:41.061 --> 00:34:42.439 what do you think, in one word, 716 00:34:42.721 --> 00:34:43.860 is the language of the universe? 717 00:34:44.584 --> 00:34:44.754 Love. 718 00:34:45.561 --> 00:34:46.499 There we go, that was fast. 719 00:34:46.560 --> 00:34:47.494 That was fast, okay. 720 00:34:48.544 --> 00:34:50.120 Okay, I'll give you a bit of context. 721 00:34:50.260 --> 00:34:52.680 I've been asking this question for about two months now, 722 00:34:52.820 --> 00:34:54.460 just people from all walks of life. 723 00:34:54.900 --> 00:34:58.140 And love has been mentioned about four or five times, 724 00:34:58.280 --> 00:34:59.999 but I have a lot of physics and math 725 00:35:00.241 --> 00:35:03.320 and unfortunately also money was in there, 726 00:35:04.022 --> 00:35:06.680 but also connection and music and dance. 727 00:35:07.300 --> 00:35:09.280 And what I really enjoy about this question 728 00:35:09.361 --> 00:35:10.359 is it's such a simple one. 729 00:35:10.944 --> 00:35:12.300 It kind of reveals a little bit 730 00:35:12.360 --> 00:35:14.680 about the people behind the answer. 731 00:35:15.320 --> 00:35:17.060 And so a joy to hear love. 732 00:35:17.260 --> 00:35:18.902 Yeah, I'm obsessed with love, I feel. 733 00:35:19.142 --> 00:35:29.112 I feel like, I felt there was a period in my life where there wasn't a lot of it going on, or, you know, I wish I had a bit more. 734 00:35:29.933 --> 00:35:37.040 And that was just due to the complexities of life and finance and time and whatnot. 735 00:35:37.040 --> 00:35:45.500 not so i think you know we complicate it a lot but you realize all the quests and shenanigans 736 00:35:45.761 --> 00:35:50.796 that was happening at the time were all quests to find love and belonging um 737 00:35:52.220 --> 00:36:01.260 and as humans we i figure we do complicate stuff and uh then you tell yourself you don't deserve 738 00:36:01.441 --> 00:36:06.800 it and then you go down a whole nother wormhole you know of abusing yourself do you know what i 739 00:36:06.800 --> 00:36:13.680 mean and then i'm 35 now and i can look back at things and hindsight had showed me and life has 740 00:36:13.720 --> 00:36:19.900 showed me what the mistakes are you can look back that i was making at the time and you can realize 741 00:36:20.020 --> 00:36:27.020 that there was all just quest for love and love for myself and

searching for something that you 742 00:36:27.200 --> 00:36:35.040 feel that you deserve or don't deserve but now i know that i do deserve it so so back on the horse 743 00:36:35.724 --> 00:36:36.319 Back on your horse. 744 00:36:36.440 --> 00:36:37.400 Back on your horse, yeah. 745 00:36:38.502 --> 00:36:40.860 There's a really wonderful teacher called Alison Armstrong. 746 00:36:41.541 --> 00:36:42.600 I don't know if you've heard of her. 747 00:36:42.740 --> 00:36:45.880 Again, another person I enjoy sitting at the feet of and listening to. 748 00:36:46.681 --> 00:36:50.160 And she finds it odd how people refer to unconditional love. 749 00:36:50.503 --> 00:36:52.600 She says, why do you have to put unconditional there? 750 00:36:53.141 --> 00:36:54.740 If it's not unconditional, it's not love. 751 00:36:54.760 --> 00:36:55.700 It's not love, is it? 752 00:36:57.541 --> 00:36:58.959 Where do words fail us? 753 00:37:00.742 --> 00:37:04.120 Oh, in communication sometimes. 754 00:37:06.404 --> 00:37:11.100 but silence, as he said, my dad always spoke about the necessity of silence. 755 00:37:13.182 --> 00:37:15.779 But sometimes we don't know how to convey how we feel, you know, 756 00:37:15.940 --> 00:37:17.859 or sometimes we're scared to release those words. 757 00:37:18.880 --> 00:37:23.120 I know at times I've definitely been stubborn and kept the words inside 758 00:37:23.241 --> 00:37:27.140 instead of putting them out there to fly where they should be. 759 00:37:28.360 --> 00:37:33.180 Sometimes they elude us and we can't communicate how we feel. 760 00:37:33.180 --> 00:37:34.700 was one of the most difficult things, 761 00:37:34.780 --> 00:37:38.380 either in fear of upsetting people or fear of pride, you know. 762 00:37:39.863 --> 00:37:41.100 Pride is a dangerous thing. 763 00:37:42.561 --> 00:37:45.620 I'd say, yeah, words fail us most in communicating things 764 00:37:45.620 --> 00:37:47.119 that we truly, really want to say 765 00:37:48.344 --> 00:37:52.860 and in all ways suggesting the right of way to other people. 766 00:37:53.381 --> 00:37:56.820 But when it comes to yourself, suddenly one can become mute 767 00:37:57.708 --> 00:37:59.020 and you have no words to say. 768 00:37:59.222 --> 00:38:01.660 You was giving the whole world a advice the other day, 769 00:38:01.720 --> 00:38:02.280 do you know what I mean? 770 00:38:03.522 --> 00:38:07.640 So I think, yeah, sometimes communicating what we really, truly feel. 771 00:38:09.460 --> 00:38:09.940 Difficult. 772 00:38:11.721 --> 00:38:13.619 Everybody's scared to get hurt these days, you know? 773 00:38:14.422 --> 00:38:14.735 Yeah. 774 00:38:15.941 --> 00:38:18.599 Even though that's part of it, you know, nobody wants to, like, dive in 775 00:38:19.705 --> 00:38:22.540 and be just a part of the cosmos and just spinning, spinning, 776 00:38:22.580 --> 00:38:25.240 and whatever happens, the end result will be the end result. 777 00:38:26.380 --> 00:38:28.619 But, yeah, everyone's a bit scared of that these days. 778 00:38:29.621 --> 00:38:31.399 And I don't think there was in the medieval days. 779 00:38:32.824 --> 00:38:38.800 you get have a jewel if you yeah i mean i think that's kind of righteous you know look at my lady 780 00:38:38.900 --> 00:38:43.400 wrong i'll have a jewel with you i like that anyway yeah let's half ink a little bit 781 00:38:45.265 --> 00:38:50.060 i love talking about love and i have to sort of stop myself from going back to it but 782 00:38:51.002 --> 00:38:57.920 in in the emotion of love i find words that completely evaporate because it's a force that 783 00:38:57.960 --> 00:39:02.560 is so beyond the human mind's capability of communication 784 00:39:03.526 --> 00:39:05.540 that sometimes when I'm expressing love, 785 00:39:05.680 --> 00:39:07.556 I just think these words are fickle. 786 00:39:09.146 --> 00:39:09.860 You're touching it. 787 00:39:10.081 --> 00:39:11.200 You're touching it. 788 00:39:11.280 --> 00:39:12.778 You're like just touching it. 789 00:39:13.400 --> 00:39:14.040 I'm tired of it. 790 00:39:14.762 --> 00:39:16.138 Again, it's the senses, isn't it? 791 00:39:16.760 --> 00:39:20.020 Like this is just one, you know, 792 00:39:20.161 --> 00:39:23.380 sometimes you just need to be, just touch someone, that's enough. 793 00:39:23.540 --> 00:39:25.219 You don't need to say a bloody word. 794 00:39:25.422 --> 00:39:26.236 You don't need to say nothing. 795 00:39:26.480 --> 00:39:34.580 I need to say even a smell could ignite like a ferocious heartbeat you know I mean just uh and 796 00:39:34.740 --> 00:39:42.520 and then that um contacts the brain and then that makes invokes memory or feeling you know 797 00:39:43.502 --> 00:39:52.480 so yeah I've love is like I think uh uh a connection of all feelings I think 798 00:39:53.743 --> 00:40:00.080 smell touch senses senses you know like i think they just set it all ablaze you know i mean 799 00:40:01.484 --> 00:40:06.980 yeah and there's also one thing i've learned recently is that like love isn't this kind of 800 00:40:07.060 --> 00:40:12.420 soft fluffy thing like sometimes loving someone is actually laying down the law and saying i will 801 00:40:12.520 --> 00:40:17.280 not allow you to talk to yourself like that i will not allow and it's like we have this 802 00:40:17.340 --> 00:40:23.440 misconception i think sometimes of love being just soft and actually it's a ferocious force 803 00:40:23.801 --> 00:40:29.037 yeah it is makes people do crazy things especially in the medieval times war 804 00:40:30.762 --> 00:40:37.680 cleopatra and them and their back in the day yeah didn't elif write in one of her books that love 805 00:40:37.720 --> 00:40:44.880 transforms us yes yeah absolutely and it sounds like you're in this transformation part of your 806 00:40:44.960 --> 00:40:49.820 journey and one word that did come to my mind a bit later is chrysalis wow what does that mean 807 00:40:49.820 --> 00:40:57.940 it's a great

one i chrysalis chrysalis so it describes the you know a caterpillar it goes 808 00:40:57.980 --> 00:41:02.560 into a chrysalis before it comes out as a butterfly yeah i'm in the chrysalis 809 00:41:05.307 --> 00:41:10.740 i'm in the chrysalis i'm licking that ben cheers i'm in the chrysalis definitely yeah yeah 810 00:41:11.164 --> 00:41:12.780 Well, that's exactly who I am, mate. 811 00:41:12.863 --> 00:41:13.200 Amazing. 812 00:41:13.382 --> 00:41:13.919 I love that. 813 00:41:14.100 --> 00:41:14.600 Cheers, mate. 814 00:41:14.901 --> 00:41:16.596 Love that, love that. 815 00:41:17.261 --> 00:41:19.820 I'd like to give you another word hack that came to mind too 816 00:41:19.901 --> 00:41:21.720 when you were talking about this point in your journey, 817 00:41:21.920 --> 00:41:23.119 which is anagnorisis. 818 00:41:23.803 --> 00:41:24.340 Are you what? 819 00:41:25.002 --> 00:41:25.274 Anagnorisis. 820 00:41:25.940 --> 00:41:26.359 Anagnorisis. 821 00:41:26.600 --> 00:41:27.440 Do you know the word anagnorisis? 822 00:41:27.460 --> 00:41:28.339 Can you text me his name? 823 00:41:29.980 --> 00:41:30.397 Anagnorisis. 824 00:41:31.282 --> 00:41:31.596 Anagnorisis. 825 00:41:32.244 --> 00:41:32.680 Whoa, whoa. 826 00:41:33.582 --> 00:41:36.579 So I learnt it from Ben, and for some reason when I learnt it, 827 00:41:36.720 --> 00:41:37.579 it just has not left. 828 00:41:37.981 --> 00:41:39.420 You know those words that just stay? 829 00:41:39.601 --> 00:41:40.000 Yeah, yeah. 830 00:41:40.020 --> 00:41:41.980 It just stays and it's just that. 831 00:41:42.220 --> 00:41:43.400 And it's, okay, I might, okay, 832 00:41:43.860 --> 00:41:45.620 correct me if I get the definition or meaning wrong, 833 00:41:46.160 --> 00:41:49.500 but it's the point in a character's journey in literature 834 00:41:49.762 --> 00:41:51.720 when they're a pivotal point of change 835 00:41:51.841 --> 00:41:53.460 where their trajectory completely changes. 836 00:41:53.560 --> 00:41:54.520 Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah. 837 00:41:54.681 --> 00:41:56.560 And I don't know if life works like that 838 00:41:56.660 --> 00:41:59.080 where it's one point where something like that happens. 839 00:41:59.180 --> 00:41:59.992 Maybe it's like multiple. 840 00:42:01.262 --> 00:42:02.860 But I thought about if we were writing 841 00:42:03.002 --> 00:42:04.619 the book of Hack Baker's life, 842 00:42:05.061 --> 00:42:06.839 it feels like a moment of anagnorisis. 843 00:42:07.580 --> 00:42:09.400 Yeah, I think, yeah, I don't think it's like one. 844 00:42:09.842 --> 00:42:13.680 I think several things happen, but I do think there is one point, 845 00:42:13.760 --> 00:42:16.400 there is a turning point, there is a pivotal point where it goes, 846 00:42:16.500 --> 00:42:18.020 right, that's it, enough's enough. 847 00:42:18.260 --> 00:42:18.779 Enough's enough. 848 00:42:18.841 --> 00:42:19.400 Enough's enough. 849 00:42:19.560 --> 00:42:23.540 Yeah, 100%, I think there is an anagnorisis point. 850

00:42:24.340 --> 00:42:26.380 And he just goes, yeah, I believe that. 851 00:42:26.461 --> 00:42:26.760 So great. 852 00:42:27.765 --> 00:42:30.260 Chrysalis and anagnorisis, they rhyme as well. 853 00:42:30.944 --> 00:42:32.499 Oh, well, it's a new album. 854 00:42:32.961 --> 00:42:33.899 Ben and I will be like. 855 00:42:33.940 --> 00:42:34.240 I love that. 856 00:42:35.321 --> 00:42:38.160 Please text me that word, though, because I'm going to forget that 857 00:42:38.221 --> 00:42:39.180 in about six minutes. 858 00:42:39.520 --> 00:42:45.680 like yeah i love them we will add them to the postcard yeah lovely and on that note do you 859 00:42:45.800 --> 00:42:50.760 think there is a word in the world right now that we need to bring back a world that's lost 860 00:42:51.001 --> 00:42:55.900 a word that's lost meaning a word that doesn't so easy to say love again but let's not try and do 861 00:42:55.980 --> 00:43:03.316 that um yeah we can't just sit around talking about love okay i'd say romance then romance 862 00:43:05.281 --> 00:43:10.020 needs to come back yeah right calling it back calling it back hundreds hundreds hundred percent 863 00:43:10.120 --> 00:43:18.580 like chivalry romance may i ask what do you think of romance what comes in your life what what was 864 00:43:18.660 --> 00:43:26.240 a romantic moment when you now look back on romantic i call it it could be a bromance it 865 00:43:26.340 --> 00:43:31.940 could be yeah when there was a time where i was in one of the flats i was growing up in probably 866 00:43:31.960 --> 00:43:38.400 about 15, 16, and there was no eating, and the window was broken, and it was one of those 867 00:43:38.540 --> 00:43:41.390 naughty, cold London evenings, right? 868 00:43:42.755 --> 00:43:44.180 And I used to live in this bedsit, and there was 869 00:43:44.180 --> 00:43:51.876 just one room, and there was just a mattress, and it seemed, it didn't seem, it was a, all 870 00:43:53.980 --> 00:43:58.440 the boys, half of the boys could have went home, and half of the boys could have went 871 00:43:58.500 --> 00:44:03.740 back to their hostel or bedsit what they lived in but none of the boys would leave we'd all stay 872 00:44:03.760 --> 00:44:09.700 together and we would all like kind of spoon each other like a tin of sardines and keep each other 873 00:44:09.840 --> 00:44:14.656 warm while there was like a halogen heater that was turning like 180 degrees 180 degrees 874 00:44:16.523 --> 00:44:21.400 and like for some reason i was awake i'm always awake anyway but like it was cold so it's probably 875 00:44:21.400 --> 00:44:27.280 why i was awake and i just thought wow this is like this is this is true bromance this is this 876 00:44:27.340 --> 00:44:31.960 is romance of life this is romance of brotherhood here because nobody wants to leave here everybody 877 00:44:32.080 --> 00:44:41.540 wants to like suffer or you know feel the same together nobody wants anyone to feel less than 878 00:44:42.061 -->

00:44:48.198 at all so that was like a romance of life a romance of romance that moment there between 879 00:44:49.000 --> 00:44:56.860 the boys and i and i'll never forget it you know i mean so yeah that that's a instance of romance 880 00:44:58.082 --> 00:45:06.260 um yeah thank you for sharing that's a a wonderful memory yes a great memory the boys and i like they 881 00:45:06.260 --> 00:45:11.900 call it trauma bonding when yeah when it's all probably gone through like the same kind of 882 00:45:11.940 --> 00:45:16.659 things at home yeah and then you bond through things that you're all searching for yeah um 883 00:45:17.282 --> 00:45:22.660 and it happens like in animal kingdom with like wolves and stuff like lost wolves they just bond 884 00:45:22.740 --> 00:45:29.660 together because they're all like and then they make their own pack um and it happens in the street 885 00:45:29.740 --> 00:45:36.140 all the time you know people are looking for the people seem to see as like gangs or whatever 886 00:45:36.982 --> 00:45:42.960 but they they're misrepresented and if there was a place for them to go where they could nurture 887 00:45:43.882 --> 00:45:50.279 people would understand that those bonds and packs are full of love man they just don't it's just 888 00:45:51.402 --> 00:45:58.820 misguided and that's why communities needs to be brought back because you may not have a father 889 00:45:58.820 --> 00:46:04.318 or mother figure at home but you can find a father or mother figure outside and that's how 890 00:46:04.900 --> 00:46:10.520 people was raised before they say it takes the village to raise people young people and if that 891 00:46:11.924 --> 00:46:17.340 key person that key figure is missing at home you can find him with someone else's own you know i 892 00:46:17.420 --> 00:46:20.100 I mean, we had all those figures. 893 00:46:21.060 --> 00:46:24.480 Like, I love my mum to pieces, but at times we didn't get along. 894 00:46:24.660 --> 00:46:29.160 But I had other, you know, maternal figures that I could seek 895 00:46:29.260 --> 00:46:32.200 and that would look after me and make me feel nice 896 00:46:32.261 --> 00:46:33.739 and give me cuddles and stuff like that. 897 00:46:34.420 --> 00:46:38.320 So if something's missing in this world again, 898 00:46:38.943 --> 00:46:40.780 I'd say I'd go back to community. 899 00:46:40.780 --> 00:46:46.980 It's so, so, so necessary to raise good, prosperous young people 900 00:46:47.020 --> 00:46:51.520 so they don't all have to go through the same pitfalls 901 00:46:51.641 --> 00:46:56.160 that their father or cousin or someone to the left or right has to go through. 902 00:46:56.260 --> 00:46:57.060 It's not necessary. 903 00:46:57.982 --> 00:46:59.240 We can all learn off each other. 904 00:47:01.102 --> 00:47:04.800 I love looking at the word community, like common unity. 905 00:47:05.542 --> 00:47:06.340 Oh, lovely, yeah. 906 00:47:06.660 --> 00:47:07.460 That's what it is, isn't it? 907 00:47:07.563 --> 00:47:07.879 It is. 908 00:47:08.220 --> 00:47:09.720 I actually don't know. 909 00:47:09.840 --> 00:47:12.120 Again, we need to do a sort of fact check after the episode 910 00:47:12.322 --> 00:47:14.220 if that's the etymology of the word. 911 00:47:14.842 --> 00:47:20.960 but the the kind of common unity the thing that we all gravitate towards and around is a shared 912 00:47:21.120 --> 00:47:28.020 thing absolutely right absolutely so our funerals are like that when because the whole community is 913 00:47:28.120 --> 00:47:33.540 lost sanct you know i mean as we get older there's more we go and you know go into more funerals 914 00:47:34.142 --> 00:47:40.280 and it's just sad that it takes tragedy for family to meet up but it is where it is but like it's 915 00:47:40.320 --> 00:47:48.520 like a common loss in the community in so our common unity has been dissipated a little bit 916 00:47:48.600 --> 00:47:54.160 by that death you know i mean but in which i had to celebrate it but that's why funerals always 917 00:47:54.521 --> 00:48:00.299 try not to miss funerals because they're great yeah celebration of life you know yeah births 918 00:48:00.480 --> 00:48:05.819 marriages funerals it's often the only time that many communities actually come together yeah yeah 919 00:48:06.528 --> 00:48:07.200 Should be more though. 920 00:48:07.220 --> 00:48:08.060 It should be more. 921 00:48:08.581 --> 00:48:10.399 Should bring back the street parties and stuff. 922 00:48:11.482 --> 00:48:13.180 Big dinners on the streets and all that. 923 00:48:13.441 --> 00:48:14.279 Like they do in Italy. 924 00:48:14.680 --> 00:48:16.020 The Italians are great at that. 925 00:48:16.060 --> 00:48:17.040 That should be happening. 926 00:48:18.122 --> 00:48:20.680 People don't even talk to their neighbours and things like that anymore. 927 00:48:22.100 --> 00:48:25.100 Yeah, those scroll devices, they keep everyone separate. 928 00:48:30.942 --> 00:48:32.640 We've been also looking at the word should. 929 00:48:33.182 --> 00:48:38.220 and we've been not avoiding it just being conscious when we use it because if something if we should 930 00:48:38.320 --> 00:48:45.240 do something maybe we could you know nice i think it's a simple few letters changing and already 931 00:48:45.381 --> 00:48:50.640 becomes a possibility could yeah we could we could have you know say hi to our neighbors we could 932 00:48:51.081 --> 00:48:55.937 celebrate on the street again like but we should though exactly yes i see i see yeah 933 00:48:57.063 --> 00:48:57.838 we have this conversation 934 00:48:58.181 --> 00:49:01.118 we have this conversation 935 00:49:01.600 --> 00:49:12.113 yeah I mean it's part of our intention with the WODcast we actually want to start 936 00:49:17.640 --> 00:49:21.900 well we are we're doing loads of live events around words so people do ask us what is the 937 00:49:21.920 --> 00:49:23.759 WODcast and we have a 938 00:49:24.284 --> 00:49:26.039

podcast as you're experiencing right now 939 00:49:26.606 --> 00:49:27.840 and we have a live event series 940 00:49:28.264 --> 00:49:29.960 where we have one word and we 941 00:49:29.980 --> 00:49:32.159 celebrate it through creative projects 942 00:49:32.888 --> 00:49:33.920 through music, poetry 943 00:49:34.166 --> 00:49:34.578 dance 944 00:49:35.626 --> 00:49:36.714 and it brings you so much 945 00:49:37.741 --> 00:49:37.803 joy 946 00:49:38.520 --> 00:49:39.023 on the word 947 00:49:42.242 --> 00:49:42.819 shenanigans 948 00:49:43.061 --> 00:49:43.827 when we get to S 949 00:49:45.620 --> 00:49:46.740 because we're going through the alphabet 950 00:49:47.063 --> 00:49:48.680 so we've done Apricity 951 00:49:50.372 --> 00:49:51.400 we started with Ananda 952 00:49:51.861 --> 00:49:59.900 and ananda can you not it's sanskrit okay and it translates to bliss 953 00:50:01.704 --> 00:50:07.900 and in medical science you know the endocannabinoid system yes yes exactly so we've got two of the 954 00:50:07.900 --> 00:50:11.860 endocannabinoids i think one of them is called 2fa it's a very science name and the other one 955 00:50:11.880 --> 00:50:17.720 is called anandamide which comes from ananda because anandamide is being secreted when you 956 00:50:17.760 --> 00:50:24.480 experience bliss which i think is just so beautiful and the first what live event was around the word 957 00:50:24.600 --> 00:50:30.960 ananda and oh my god it was a rooftop ananda is being secreted when you experience bliss there 958 00:50:30.980 --> 00:50:34.593 we go so i've got a little bit of it going through my system right now i can see it's the words they 959 00:50:37.363 --> 00:50:41.820 get me um anyway so ananda was the first party that's how we kicked it off with bliss then we 960 00:50:41.860 --> 00:50:47.520 went to a pricity which describes the warmth of the sun in winter it was a rooftop party in 961 00:50:47.580 --> 00:50:54.140 december the sun came out was a bit shy but it was beautiful then we had arrow yeah um an event 962 00:50:54.140 --> 00:50:59.640 that we hosted in london yeah and then anthropos anthropos this is an interesting word yeah we 963 00:50:59.680 --> 00:51:03.860 were looking for a word to connect to international women's day yeah which is a bit challenge a big 964 00:51:03.920 --> 00:51:08.240 challenge a wonderful challenge and mabel introduced me to the word anthropos which 965 00:51:08.300 --> 00:51:16.160 describes someone that is fully divine and fully human at the same time i just blew my mind so 966 00:51:16.240 --> 00:51:22.040 anthropos was our women's day international women's day party yeah and that completed the a so we went 967 00:51:22.140 --> 00:51:26.820 to b we're going through the whole alphabet yeah it's got to be an epic life 26 years so how many 968 00:51:27.401 --> 00:51:34.020 so how many parties you do in a year and how many do so four years four years per letter yes 969 00:51:34.583 --> 00:51:36.920 four parties per

letter 970 00:51:37.107 --> 00:51:37.337 wow 971 00:51:37.622 --> 00:51:39.360 you've got a prosperous career 972 00:51:39.360 --> 00:51:40.325 at least 25 years 973 00:51:43.001 --> 00:51:44.780 may I indulge in the B letters 974 00:51:45.046 --> 00:51:45.559 the B words 975 00:51:45.902 --> 00:51:48.100 so we've got Beatitude as our first one 976 00:51:48.423 --> 00:51:50.540 Beatitude is defined as supreme 977 00:51:50.762 --> 00:51:52.820 blessedness and that party 978 00:51:53.004 --> 00:51:53.739 was blessed 979 00:51:53.841 --> 00:51:54.930 it was incredible 980 00:51:56.182 --> 00:51:57.459 how do you know so much words 981 00:51:58.708 --> 00:51:59.775 every word 982 00:52:00.681 --> 00:52:02.759 I don't know what they mean 983 00:52:02.840 --> 00:52:05.480 and I thought I knew a little word and then you're blowing my mind. 984 00:52:06.205 --> 00:52:07.440 It brings me so much joy. 985 00:52:07.988 --> 00:52:08.378 I don't know. 986 00:52:09.000 --> 00:52:10.418 Did you study anything? 987 00:52:10.720 --> 00:52:11.600 You just like words. 988 00:52:11.701 --> 00:52:12.400 I just like words. 989 00:52:12.500 --> 00:52:13.220 I think it's quite simple. 990 00:52:13.220 --> 00:52:16.720 But also your reflection on them being drugs. 991 00:52:16.983 --> 00:52:17.195 Yes. 992 00:52:17.960 --> 00:52:22.280 Okay, so Rudyard Kipling, who wrote The Jungle Book, for example, 993 00:52:23.065 --> 00:52:23.720 his quote is, 994 00:52:23.920 --> 00:52:27.100 words are, of course, the most powerful drug used by mankind. 995 00:52:28.041 --> 00:52:30.860 And I see myself as a guinea pig, just seeing how excited... 996 00:52:30.900 --> 00:52:31.140 Drug addict. 997 00:52:31.162 --> 00:52:31.355 Yeah. 998 00:52:32.346 --> 00:52:32.639 Oh, boy. 999 00:52:33.123 --> 00:52:34.760 I do love words. 1000 00:52:34.880 --> 00:52:37.200 And man, if you start a Word of the Day series 1001 00:52:37.382 --> 00:52:38.720 and you keep going every day, 1002 00:52:39.747 --> 00:52:41.200 you get hooked on your own supply 1003 00:52:41.220 --> 00:52:43.133 and you just keep searching for words. 1004 00:52:44.723 --> 00:52:45.740 Do you have that experience? 1005 00:52:46.180 --> 00:52:47.419 Do you, with your own words, 1006 00:52:47.540 --> 00:52:49.540 get kind of hooked and almost addicted to it? 1007 00:52:49.560 --> 00:52:50.060 I do, I do. 1008 00:52:50.423 --> 00:52:51.320 I used to write songs, 1009 00:52:51.680 --> 00:52:54.079 I used to write down words that I found 1010 00:52:54.446 --> 00:52:55.100 when I was reading 1011 00:52:55.201 --> 00:52:57.900 and then I'd say like, 1012 00:52:58.000 --> 00:52:59.260 I'll be making music 1013 00:52:59.362 --> 00:53:00.580 and I'd go from my phone and say, 1014 00:53:00.680 --> 00:53:01.600 oh, that word, okay, 1015 00:53:01.740 --> 00:53:10.140 let me try and like uh spurious i found the other day spurious what does furious mean spurious um 1016 00:53:11.102 --> 00:53:20.320 oh god it's like oh say things say things

are all like a playing level and you do the one thing that 1017 00:53:20.380 --> 00:53:28.960 takes you out of familiarity is spurious wow so it's like being a rebel basically spurious okay 1018 00:53:29.042 --> 00:53:29.271 yeah 1019 00:53:30.206 --> 00:53:32.020 you put me on the spot there 1020 00:53:32.309 --> 00:53:32.619 but anyway 1021 00:53:32.789 --> 00:53:32.939 yeah 1022 00:53:33.001 --> 00:53:33.577 Spiridonis 1023 00:53:33.966 --> 00:53:34.580 is the right word 1024 00:53:34.622 --> 00:53:34.920 I thought 1025 00:53:35.809 --> 00:53:36.880 someone said that word to me 1026 00:53:36.920 --> 00:53:37.417 and I was like 1027 00:53:37.582 --> 00:53:38.179 what does that mean 1028 00:53:38.484 --> 00:53:39.377 and then 1029 00:53:39.600 --> 00:53:40.955 and then I used it 1030 00:53:41.509 --> 00:53:41.659 like 1031 00:53:41.782 --> 00:53:42.760 in the song 1032 00:53:43.005 --> 00:53:43.820 in the next 10 minutes 1033 00:53:43.902 --> 00:53:44.518 so I love doing 1034 00:53:45.134 --> 00:53:45.360 that 1035 00:53:45.503 --> 00:53:46.320 I love using words 1036 00:53:46.688 --> 00:53:47.158 Chrysalis 1037 00:53:47.486 --> 00:53:48.019 Chrysalis 1038 00:53:48.203 --> 00:53:48.999 and the other one 1039 00:53:49.144 --> 00:53:49.560 I've forgotten 1040 00:53:49.663 --> 00:53:50.237 and Ignorance 1041 00:53:50.421 --> 00:53:52.140 I'll text it to you 1042 00:53:52.225 --> 00:53:52.416 please 1043 00:53:52.773 --> 00:53:52.940 yeah 1044 00:53:52.940 --> 00:53:53.669 it's a tough one 1045 00:53:54.888 --> 00:53:55.360 it's a tough one 1046 00:53:55.381 --> 00:53:55.938 and Beatitudes 1047 00:53:56.061 --> 00:53:57.079 is a beautiful 1048 00:53:57.140 --> 00:53:58.500 supreme blessedness 1049 00:53:58.561 --> 00:53:59.660 I mean, supreme blessings. 1050 00:53:59.800 --> 00:54:00.640 What an epic word. 1051 00:54:00.720 --> 00:54:02.400 Like, how come it's hidden, you know? 1052 00:54:02.420 --> 00:54:02.900 It's hidden. 1053 00:54:03.341 --> 00:54:04.197 It's hidden in the Bible. 1054 00:54:04.880 --> 00:54:05.573 Supreme blessings. 1055 00:54:06.260 --> 00:54:08.200 I guess birth is like a supreme blessing. 1056 00:54:08.360 --> 00:54:08.469 Yeah. 1057 00:54:08.661 --> 00:54:08.765 Yeah. 1058 00:54:09.723 --> 00:54:11.280 We all beatified in that way, right? 1059 00:54:11.381 --> 00:54:11.840 We've all been. 1060 00:54:12.081 --> 00:54:13.160 I beatify you. 1061 00:54:13.307 --> 00:54:13.520 Yeah. 1062 00:54:14.082 --> 00:54:15.259 You can hear that in our life. 1063 00:54:16.126 --> 00:54:16.979 The king would say that. 1064 00:54:17.842 --> 00:54:20.459 I feel like kind of like medieval short film coming on. 1065 00:54:21.403 --> 00:54:21.779 Beatify. 1066 00:54:22.000 --> 00:54:22.230 Jesus. 1067 00:54:22.561 --> 00:54:24.440 After slaying the dragon, you're beatified. 1068 00:54:24.500 --> 00:54:28.820 yeah i ain't gonna be able to get through the door of all these words 1069 00:54:30.062 --> 00:54:38.560 chrysalis beatitude what was the first a you said ananda ananda yeah ananda is a good one 1070 00:54:38.760 --> 00:54:44.560 ananda sanskrit so i mean sanskrit the beauty of words is they're abundant right there yeah 1071 00:54:44.580 --> 00:54:50.020 there's endless really i make up my own words sometimes yeah you got a word that you lovely 1072 00:54:50.101 --> 00:54:52.940 well I spell it 1073 00:54:53.023 --> 00:54:53.479 my own way 1074 00:54:53.562 --> 00:54:53.958 you spell it 1075 00:54:54.020 --> 00:54:54.458 your own way 1076 00:54:54.582 --> 00:54:55.177 lovely 1077 00:54:55.300 --> 00:54:55.443 lovely 1078 00:54:56.160 --> 00:54:56.508 lovely 1079 00:54:57.250 --> 00:54:57.480 lovely 1080 00:54:57.663 --> 00:54:58.740 I can't remember 1081 00:54:59.008 --> 00:54:59.399 any at the 1082 00:54:59.420 --> 00:54:59.959 master but I 1083 00:55:00.082 --> 00:55:00.799 definitely wake up 1084 00:55:00.943 --> 00:55:01.519 make up my own 1085 00:55:01.540 --> 00:55:02.259 words all the time 1086 00:55:02.485 --> 00:55:03.160 not all the time 1087 00:55:03.180 --> 00:55:04.560 but I definitely 1088 00:55:04.682 --> 00:55:05.959 I think that's 1089 00:55:06.000 --> 00:55:06.579 got to be a word 1090 00:55:06.600 --> 00:55:07.600 and then I'd say 1091 00:55:07.620 --> 00:55:08.499 yes that's a word 1092 00:55:09.150 --> 00:55:09.760 should be a word 1093 00:55:09.885 --> 00:55:10.198 yeah who 1094 00:55:10.363 --> 00:55:11.100 like who gives 1095 00:55:11.323 --> 00:55:12.360 who gives everyone 1096 00:55:13.615 --> 00:55:13.980 the right 1097 00:55:14.184 --> 00:55:15.140 who have made 1098 00:55:15.161 --> 00:55:15.680 the concise 1099 00:55:15.765 --> 00:55:15.999 diction 1100 00:55:16.124 --> 00:55:16.540 the right say 1101 00:55:16.684 --> 00:55:17.299 that's a word 1102 00:55:17.422 --> 00:55:18.500 and we have to use it 1103 00:55:18.562 --> 00:55:19.040 you can make up 1104 00:55:19.040 --> 00:55:19.478 your own words 1105 00:55:19.624 --> 00:55:19.958 why not 1106 00:55:20.263 --> 00:55:21.940 Do you know how the dictionary was made, Herb? 1107 00:55:22.042 --> 00:55:22.639 Absolutely not. 1108 00:55:23.446 --> 00:55:24.300 I can't wait to tell you. 1109 00:55:24.580 --> 00:55:28.540 So Sarah Ogilvie, who we'll talk to you about in a little bit, 1110 00:55:29.022 --> 00:55:30.500 she wrote a book called The Dictionary People, 1111 00:55:30.980 --> 00:55:35.140 counting how the Oxford, was it the Oxford English Dictionary was made. 1112 00:55:35.580 --> 00:55:38.000 So it was such a big task that the scholars were like, 1113 00:55:38.060 --> 00:55:39.499 there's no way we can possibly do this, 1114 00:55:39.760 --> 00:55:43.760 until one scholar had the clever idea of asking for submissions of words 1115 00:55:43.841 --> 00:55:44.700 from the general public. 1116 00:55:45.441 --> 00:55:49.358 Now, who has time to sit down and write word cards 1117 00:55:49.840 --> 00:55:55.360 where you write the word how you use an example sentence mostly women and incarcerated people

1118 00:55:58.364 --> 00:56:07.440 one of the one of the biggest submitters to the oxford english dictionary was a man in a mental 1119 00:56:07.540 --> 00:56:14.240 asylum who had murdered someone oh wow he spent every single day just writing words from the books 1120 00:56:14.783 --> 00:56:17.960 and submitting them to the people that were forming the oxford english dictionary 1121 00:56:18.585 --> 00:56:20.260 and women who were at home at the time. 1122 00:56:20.640 --> 00:56:21.560 When did this happen? 1123 00:56:23.267 --> 00:56:23.900 Not by heart. 1124 00:56:24.001 --> 00:56:25.040 Okay, so there's a... 1125 00:56:25.040 --> 00:56:25.958 We're going to have to do a lot of... 1126 00:56:26.081 --> 00:56:26.600 There's a great film. 1127 00:56:26.720 --> 00:56:29.340 Yeah, there's a great film called The Professor and the Madman, 1128 00:56:29.440 --> 00:56:30.379 which is this story. 1129 00:56:30.622 --> 00:56:30.733 Yeah. 1130 00:56:30.961 --> 00:56:32.019 I recommend you watch it. 1131 00:56:32.882 --> 00:56:33.440 Isn't that fascinating? 1132 00:56:33.440 --> 00:56:34.057 I think you'll enjoy it. 1133 00:56:34.604 --> 00:56:34.976 It's amazing. 1134 00:56:35.560 --> 00:56:35.777 Right? 1135 00:56:35.980 --> 00:56:38.560 But I would never think there was a murderer sitting in a cell, right? 1136 00:56:38.841 --> 00:56:39.579 That's crazy. 1137 00:56:40.822 --> 00:56:41.398 Yeah, amazing. 1138 00:56:42.041 --> 00:56:42.979 And the women, obviously. 1139 00:56:43.220 --> 00:56:43.837 That makes sense. 1140 00:56:44.220 --> 00:56:44.420 Right? 1141 00:56:44.420 --> 00:56:45.179 Yeah, that makes sense. 1142 00:56:46.676 --> 00:56:47.020 but yeah 1143 00:56:47.182 --> 00:56:48.080 I mean I find it interesting 1144 00:56:48.163 --> 00:56:48.599 when new words 1145 00:56:48.702 --> 00:56:49.200 get submitted 1146 00:56:49.566 --> 00:56:50.440 to the dictionary 1147 00:56:50.461 --> 00:56:50.940 so are new words 1148 00:56:51.001 --> 00:56:51.820 getting submitted now? 1149 00:56:51.880 --> 00:56:51.966 yeah 1150 00:56:52.467 --> 00:56:53.060 yeah yeah yeah 1151 00:56:53.081 --> 00:56:53.580 all the time? 1152 00:56:54.434 --> 00:56:54.560 yeah 1153 00:56:55.068 --> 00:56:55.679 I think like 1154 00:56:56.045 --> 00:56:56.820 what was the recent one 1155 00:56:56.861 --> 00:56:57.300 that got submitted? 1156 00:56:57.981 --> 00:56:59.179 they're all quite depressing words 1157 00:56:59.714 --> 00:56:59.920 like 1158 00:57:00.453 --> 00:57:00.720 maybe 1159 00:57:01.005 --> 00:57:01.980 Riz made it into the dictionary 1160 00:57:02.023 --> 00:57:02.235 Riz 1161 00:57:02.363 --> 00:57:02.620 yeah 1162 00:57:02.865 --> 00:57:03.540 for Rizler right? 1163 00:57:03.600 --> 00:57:04.779 no for Charismatic 1164 00:57:04.820 --> 00:57:04.862 oh 1165 00:57:05.280 --> 00:57:06.192 Riz has made it into 1166 00:57:06.982 --> 00:57:08.039 they've got Riz 1167 00:57:08.245 --> 00:57:08.535 I heard 1168 00:57:08.923 --> 00:57:10.220 they say it all the time

1169 00:57:10.301 --> 00:57:11.219 on the scrolling device 1170 00:57:11.302 --> 00:57:11.534 yeah 1171 00:57:12.509 --> 00:57:13.640 yes he's a powerful thing 1172 00:57:13.764 --> 00:57:13.972 Riz 1173 00:57:14.301 --> 00:57:17.736 It was the Oxford Dictionary Word of the Year, I think in 24, 2024. 1174 00:57:19.764 --> 00:57:20.215 Riz or 2025. 1175 00:57:21.102 --> 00:57:21.860 I never even heard it. 1176 00:57:21.900 --> 00:57:22.900 I thought you were talking about Rizzler. 1177 00:57:23.122 --> 00:57:23.560 No, no, Riz. 1178 00:57:24.261 --> 00:57:25.280 I'm a bit disappointed in that. 1179 00:57:25.342 --> 00:57:25.920 I agree. 1180 00:57:26.180 --> 00:57:28.540 Like, a pricity, for example, is made redundant as a word. 1181 00:57:28.641 --> 00:57:29.820 How can a word be made redundant? 1182 00:57:30.066 --> 00:57:30.260 No. 1183 00:57:30.420 --> 00:57:31.300 What do you mean made redundant? 1184 00:57:31.460 --> 00:57:34.220 Like, if you go to the dictionary, it's just like obsolete. 1185 00:57:34.220 --> 00:57:35.119 You're fired from the dictionary. 1186 00:57:35.420 --> 00:57:35.860 You're obsolete. 1187 00:57:36.000 --> 00:57:37.960 No, like, the sun is still warm in winter. 1188 00:57:38.061 --> 00:57:39.140 Can I still call it a pricity? 1189 00:57:39.220 --> 00:57:39.799 Am I still allowed? 1190 00:57:40.221 --> 00:57:41.279 But then Riz has made it. 1191 00:57:41.422 --> 00:57:42.340 Right, Riz has made it in. 1192 00:57:42.400 --> 00:57:43.380 That's shocking, I'm sure. 1193 00:57:43.380 --> 00:57:44.259 And do you know what next was? 1194 00:57:44.621 --> 00:57:46.160 AI slot was the word of the year. 1195 00:57:46.852 --> 00:57:47.000 What? 1196 00:57:47.422 --> 00:57:48.619 Yeah, I think it was AI slot. 1197 00:57:48.740 --> 00:57:49.839 Like, it's been quite... 1198 00:57:50.184 --> 00:57:51.160 It's been quite bleak, hasn't it? 1199 00:57:51.180 --> 00:57:51.780 It's a good word. 1200 00:57:51.900 --> 00:57:53.540 Like, word of the year was brain rot. 1201 00:57:53.760 --> 00:57:54.919 Yeah, brain rot, I think it was. 1202 00:57:55.240 --> 00:57:55.937 Due to AI. 1203 00:57:56.602 --> 00:57:56.733 Yeah. 1204 00:57:57.520 --> 00:57:58.440 So we need some good words again. 1205 00:57:58.623 --> 00:57:58.860 Yeah. 1206 00:57:59.161 --> 00:57:59.739 I'm going to get on it. 1207 00:58:00.580 --> 00:58:00.900 Shenanigans. 1208 00:58:01.540 --> 00:58:03.399 People should definitely be using shenanigans. 1209 00:58:03.702 --> 00:58:03.855 Yeah. 1210 00:58:04.302 --> 00:58:04.514 Anything. 1211 00:58:04.900 --> 00:58:08.420 It has to be at least four syllables, I reckon, for it to be getting in there. 1212 00:58:08.843 --> 00:58:09.277 New ones. 1213 00:58:09.963 --> 00:58:12.720 I love syllables because it makes rhyming more intricate. 1214 00:58:13.061 --> 00:58:18.820 is that how you go about your rhymes you yeah i like it up i love to do that i love to like run 1215 00:58:19.743 --> 00:58:25.240 shit like boom boom boom boom boom boom what do they call that that standard i don't know but 1216 00:58:25.280 --> 00:58:31.020 yeah i i love to do that i think that gives me that gives me great joy yeah there's something 1217 00:58:31.100 --> 00:58:38.440 about rhymes that i don't know what it is neither but i love yeah i love i love rhyme and rhythm and 1218 00:58:39.302 --> 00:58:45.220 cutting words by using that i love that i love that a lot it's one of my favorite things to do 1219 00:58:45.380 --> 00:58:50.940 ever yeah rhyming is i think my favorite thing to do and you are a rapper right i don't know 1220 00:58:51.481 --> 00:58:58.339 i don't know i'd i'd call it i don't know what you'd call it man i don't think i'm 1221 00:58:59.162 --> 00:59:05.140 i'd call it dare to call it a poet i'd say yeah i prefer that because 1222 00:59:06.964 --> 00:59:13.220 yeah i just like that more i don't think um i think i know i can rap but like i find like 1223 00:59:14.042 --> 00:59:21.920 rap easy i think poetry is more um obscure and like you don't in rap there's kind of like 1224 00:59:22.522 --> 00:59:26.880 not rules but there's kind of a way out to do it and there's a way how many people do it 1225 00:59:27.302 --> 00:59:30.439 millions of people do it the same yeah but when you're like using 1226 00:59:32.066 --> 00:59:35.700 like a joist of poetry like that yeah do you know what i mean like you 1227 00:59:37.083 --> 00:59:43.480 use imagery in your head so me a joist of poetry is like cutting through with words 1228 00:59:44.886 --> 00:59:48.139 but no you wouldn't hear that anywhere else but that's what come to my head and then 1229 00:59:48.641 --> 00:59:54.040 that's why poetry is like super unique so how you put together a set of words you know i mean 1230 00:59:54.923 --> 00:59:59.240 not everybody even understands it that's true they don't need to understand it because it's yours 1231 01:00:02.227 --> 01:00:08.020 i've read somewhere that rap for some is also an acronym for rhythm and poetry which i've heard 1232 01:00:08.060 --> 01:00:13.760 that i really like that connection because yeah poetry is enigmatic sometimes you don't always 1233 01:00:13.840 --> 01:00:18.140 understand you don't always understand it and poetry doesn't even even have to rhyme 1234 01:00:18.641 --> 01:00:28.340 yeah as long as what you're portraying creates imagery i feel then that's what poetry is for me 1235 01:00:28.360 --> 01:00:32.580 If you can sit, if you can hear like a set of words 1236 01:00:32.881 --> 01:00:37.900 and it creates an image in your head, then that's poetry, I think. 1237 01:00:38.300 --> 01:00:40.540 Or it invokes some kind of feeling. 1238 01:00:40.985 --> 01:00:41.460 Yeah, yeah. 1239 01:00:42.701 --> 01:00:45.220 Then, like, if it triggers another sense. 1240 01:00:45.460 --> 01:00:46.720 Yeah, it touches the senses. 1241 01:00:46.920 --> 01:00:48.720 Yeah, yeah, then I feel that's what poetry is. 1242 01:00:48.801 --> 01:00:49.418 It moves you. 1243 01:00:49.720

--> 01:00:49.828 Yeah. 1244 01:00:50.582 --> 01:00:51.700 That's what makes you feel alive. 1245 01:00:52.144 --> 01:00:52.718 Yeah, absolutely. 1246 01:00:53.948 --> 01:00:54.199 Absolutely. 1247 01:00:54.760 --> 01:00:55.400 That's really interesting. 1248 01:00:55.440 --> 01:01:00.500 And when Mabel read me that, and he was talking about the eye, 1249 01:01:01.621 --> 01:01:04.860 seeing a beautiful woman, I was just thinking about, 1250 01:01:06.062 --> 01:01:08.800 who's that beautiful woman that I see in my head every day? 1251 01:01:09.042 --> 01:01:09.576 And then I saw her. 1252 01:01:10.383 --> 01:01:10.740 Oh, yeah. 1253 01:01:12.010 --> 01:01:12.219 Yeah. 1254 01:01:13.068 --> 01:01:13.259 Anyway. 1255 01:01:14.907 --> 01:01:15.700 For next time. 1256 01:01:16.181 --> 01:01:16.878 Another, okay. 1257 01:01:18.941 --> 01:01:23.360 Just on that note quickly, separate note, I see that you, I mean, 1258 01:01:23.440 --> 01:01:28.180 you are as i said at the beginning completely genre defying in your work that's what i love 1259 01:01:28.200 --> 01:01:35.120 about you and your music is its creativity at its finest thank you and i saw that you've coined 1260 01:01:35.541 --> 01:01:40.960 your genre g-folk g-folk yeah yeah i mean let's get that in the sort of dictionary of music i 1261 01:01:41.080 --> 01:01:48.280 think so 100 right what is g-folk so folk you know someone that uh describes or sings about 1262 01:01:49.827 --> 01:01:52.480 their time and what's happening where they are, 1263 01:01:52.722 --> 01:01:53.100 blah, blah, blah. 1264 01:01:53.860 --> 01:01:56.120 But G-Folk, I just call it like Governor Falk, really. 1265 01:01:56.260 --> 01:01:57.320 It's got a bit of bounce to it, 1266 01:01:57.400 --> 01:01:58.880 it's got a bit of a rizz to it, 1267 01:01:58.940 --> 01:01:59.820 it's got a bit of, you know. 1268 01:02:02.222 --> 01:02:03.720 Yeah, and I just think it's quite vicious 1269 01:02:04.243 --> 01:02:07.440 and it's quite, you know, brutal at times, 1270 01:02:07.963 --> 01:02:10.100 but it says it as it says it, really. 1271 01:02:10.140 --> 01:02:11.299 I don't like to beat around the bush. 1272 01:02:12.422 --> 01:02:14.220 If someone is what they are, 1273 01:02:14.280 --> 01:02:15.539 then I'll call them what they are. 1274 01:02:16.163 --> 01:02:17.160 If something is what it is, 1275 01:02:17.221 --> 01:02:18.218 and I'll call it what it is. 1276 01:02:19.882 --> 01:02:21.500 I just think that's what I do, really. 1277 01:02:21.781 --> 01:02:24.579 I just point out things and say it for how it is 1278 01:02:25.786 --> 01:02:28.460 and dress it out with a bit of rhythm and rhyme. 1279 01:02:29.380 --> 01:02:32.280 So, yeah, that's my dictation of G-Folk, really. 1280 01:02:33.501 --> 01:02:35.119 Just giving it a bit of attitude. 1281 01:02:36.462 --> 01:02:38.200 Yeah, attitude is necessary. 1282 01:02:39.141 --> 01:02:42.200 Yeah, I also think folk could really benefit from a bit of attitude. 1283 01:02:42.240

--> 01:02:42.937 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 1284 01:02:43.463 --> 01:02:44.517 No, sometimes it's just a bit... 1285 01:02:44.760 --> 01:02:45.165 Like, no. 1286 01:02:47.062 --> 01:02:51.020 like it's beautiful it's deep it's reflective but it's it sometimes you want like i want a 1287 01:02:51.100 --> 01:02:56.940 drum i want the drums yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah you see the activists in you maybe 1288 01:02:57.141 --> 01:03:00.480 yeah yeah the heart pacifist too 1289 01:03:02.927 --> 01:03:07.259 two sides of a coin right yeah i mean look i've i've put down my sword i used to 1290 01:03:07.781 --> 01:03:10.092 have you yes i have just checking i put down my sword 1291 01:03:12.623 --> 01:03:18.400 because it's not the way to make change as i think you understand yeah it's not the way to do it the 1292 01:03:18.460 --> 01:03:24.739 more i i believe the more you fight something the more resistance you actually create in it 1293 01:03:25.883 --> 01:03:30.359 i agree and disagree yeah i agree i have but disagree as well because 1294 01:03:32.083 --> 01:03:40.080 because like i think especially in the time of now like how many times can we keep screaming 1295 01:03:40.401 --> 01:03:44.400 or talking or conversating about the same thing with no change you know i mean yeah 1296 01:03:45.164 --> 01:03:48.159 isn't that apathy though hack you know i mean 1297 01:03:50.686 --> 01:03:56.760 like not from you i'm saying that's why it's like first we've spoken with another guest about this 1298 01:03:56.920 --> 01:04:02.920 age of anxiety and her fear is that we're now moving into an age of apathy where we talk and 1299 01:04:02.960 --> 01:04:08.300 we talk and facts you know it's almost laughable what's being presented to us in the world because 1300 01:04:08.300 --> 01:04:10.420 It's like, ha-ha, we're doing this and you can do nothing. 1301 01:04:10.641 --> 01:04:10.915 Yes. 1302 01:04:11.220 --> 01:04:11.499 You know? 1303 01:04:12.742 --> 01:04:15.300 And so I feel the need to rise up. 1304 01:04:15.400 --> 01:04:18.320 I just feel the means and mechanisms of doing it are different, 1305 01:04:18.461 --> 01:04:19.100 could be different. 1306 01:04:20.025 --> 01:04:20.900 And that's where I think. 1307 01:04:21.081 --> 01:04:22.040 Okay, so what is it then? 1308 01:04:23.006 --> 01:04:23.259 Love. 1309 01:04:24.946 --> 01:04:25.640 And community. 1310 01:04:26.621 --> 01:04:29.780 Enough people opening their hearts and joining together 1311 01:04:30.082 --> 01:04:33.160 to create a substantial energetic shift on the planet 1312 01:04:33.504 --> 01:04:34.940 without getting too esoteric. 1313 01:04:37.586 --> 01:04:43.400 again i agree and disagree but i hear you i don't know i'm not saying i'm right at 1314 01:04:43.762 --> 01:04:47.000 no i know but like i'm just saying that what what's it going to take 1315 01:04:48.285 --> 01:04:52.460 what's it going to take because as you're saying that the powers that be are literally doing things 1316 01:04:52.641 --> 01:04:57.360 and laughing yeah and they think oh what they're going to do is they're going to go for a little 1317 01:04:57.420 --> 01:05:01.600 mark stand in parliament they're going to do that we're going to arrest a few of them and they won't 1318 01:05:01.660 --> 01:05:07.440 do it again and i'm not going to do anything they're not going to um go without because we 1319 01:05:07.580 --> 01:05:15.000 are the generation of consuming everything so we can't live our lives without we're still going to 1320 01:05:15.040 --> 01:05:19.540 use what we want to use they're not going to do anything because they're too busy being comfortable 1321 01:05:22.126 --> 01:05:28.140 which is true yeah so like what's it really going to take like we love this eight this has been the 1322 01:05:28.180 --> 01:05:37.580 longest period where there had to be a cataclysmic war you know so we are in love with this comfort 1323 01:05:38.102 --> 01:05:43.020 and nobody wants anything to happen yeah you know we're like at nucleus standoff everybody's got 1324 01:05:43.060 --> 01:05:49.140 these things and nothing nothing and they use them as reasons for to let all these things happen in 1325 01:05:49.180 --> 01:05:59.000 between and no one do anything about it so either we either we go with out or we go against 1326 01:06:02.127 --> 01:06:08.060 i don't know i don't like to incite like attack on anything but like it does come to the point 1327 01:06:08.100 --> 01:06:13.540 like what's going to give soft power you mentioned earlier that when it comes from the heart when 1328 01:06:13.560 --> 01:06:18.120 you're truly listening to yourself you will find the right answers or the right actions 1329 01:06:18.742 --> 01:06:24.500 and maybe that's what it requires is for people to maybe truly listen to themselves 1330 01:06:25.344 --> 01:06:29.220 and whether it comes from slowness whether that comes from community whether that comes from 1331 01:06:31.647 --> 01:06:34.880 medicines that might be not in the mainstream 1332 01:06:36.106 --> 01:06:38.215 plant medicine next conversation 1333 01:06:43.149 --> 01:06:48.000 i wonder i'm just putting out the words i'm just putting out words because i do think like if you're 1334 01:06:48.120 --> 01:06:53.520 fully honest to yourself you're not going to go to war like but maybe i'm wrong maybe i'm naive 1335 01:06:53.781 --> 01:06:59.020 and too optimistic it's an odd one yeah it's really i think it's very very very very difficult 1336 01:06:59.882 --> 01:07:06.200 um the stalemate that we're at uh you know i think it's very very very difficult because 1337 01:07:07.704 --> 01:07:12.840 because of because yeah i do have a word that i'm not that i think i know the definition 1338 01:07:13.362 --> 01:07:18.060 somewhere back of my head but conundrum lovely is that's quite the conundrum there we go 1339 01:07:19.865 --> 01:07:25.479 could you please explain to me to us what a conundrum is well i used it um 1340 01:07:28.567 --> 01:07:33.360

on in my song i say on a corner waiting for conundrums you know i'm just waiting for 1341 01:07:35.024 --> 01:07:41.040 things that shouldn't necessarily happen or to happen. 1342 01:07:42.487 --> 01:07:44.660 And that's what we was doing when we was kids, really. 1343 01:07:47.721 --> 01:07:52.320 But that is the way to describe where we're at, really. 1344 01:07:52.320 --> 01:07:53.420 It's quite the conundrum. 1345 01:07:57.024 --> 01:07:59.720 And I wonder, again, what's going to break this down, mate? 1346 01:08:01.846 --> 01:08:07.200 is it a frame of mind that's going to happen that you're saying like globally where we 1347 01:08:08.584 --> 01:08:13.880 go against something so much that doesn't need war but begins to topple things or 1348 01:08:13.960 --> 01:08:23.020 i don't know again quite the conundrum like the conundrum a conundrum is made up of a drum right 1349 01:08:23.281 --> 01:08:28.440 so maybe we just need to beat have the right beats or mark to the same what's the exact 1350 01:08:28.440 --> 01:08:29.620 march to the same beat. 1351 01:08:29.682 --> 01:08:30.000 I don't know, 1352 01:08:30.040 --> 01:08:30.340 but it's just, 1353 01:08:30.420 --> 01:08:31.280 I just wrote it down. 1354 01:08:31.623 --> 01:08:32.420 The second part of the word 1355 01:08:32.461 --> 01:08:33.100 is just the drum. 1356 01:08:33.484 --> 01:08:34.160 I just like that. 1357 01:08:34.681 --> 01:08:35.459 So is that what you do? 1358 01:08:35.861 --> 01:08:36.559 Break down words 1359 01:08:36.620 --> 01:08:37.956 and then go to find like 1360 01:08:38.684 --> 01:08:39.834 prefixes or suffixes 1361 01:08:40.460 --> 01:08:40.959 and stuff like that? 1362 01:08:41.041 --> 01:08:41.820 My guilty pleasures, 1363 01:08:41.962 --> 01:08:42.075 yeah, 1364 01:08:42.220 --> 01:08:42.700 is to... 1365 01:08:42.741 --> 01:08:43.540 I see you writing down 1366 01:08:43.623 --> 01:08:43.999 little things 1367 01:08:44.122 --> 01:08:45.320 just to find out. 1368 01:08:45.460 --> 01:08:46.560 To keep track 1369 01:08:46.662 --> 01:08:47.380 of the conversation. 1370 01:08:47.560 --> 01:08:48.439 We've had some great words. 1371 01:08:48.901 --> 01:08:49.500 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 1372 01:08:49.520 --> 01:08:50.079 It's been a wonderful 1373 01:08:50.263 --> 01:08:51.120 conversation, Mac. 1374 01:08:51.262 --> 01:08:52.259 I feel we've spanned 1375 01:08:52.667 --> 01:08:53.380 far and wide. 1376 01:08:53.824 --> 01:08:53.998 Yeah. 1377 01:08:54.402 --> 01:08:55.140 I don't have conversations 1378 01:08:55.181 --> 01:08:55.738 like this. 1379 01:08:55.981 --> 01:08:56.380 You don't? 1380 01:08:56.420 --> 01:08:56.700 Not really, no. 1381 01:08:56.700 --> 01:08:57.439 Well, you are welcome 1382 01:08:57.667 --> 01:08:57.875 any time. 1383 01:08:58.081 --> 01:08:59.160 to join us 1384 01:08:59.283 --> 01:08:59.652 offline 1385 01:09:00.187 --> 01:09:00.619 online 1386 01:09:01.168 --> 01:09:01.980 this is the start 1387 01:09:02.587 --> 01:09:03.620 yeah this is the start

1388 01:09:03.620 --> 01:09:04.199 and we love 1389 01:09:04.384 --> 01:09:05.020 these conversations 1390 01:09:05.020 --> 01:09:05.900 I would love to join you 1391 01:09:06.023 --> 01:09:06.515 to talk 1392 01:09:06.924 --> 01:09:07.960 yeah come over for dinner 1393 01:09:08.021 --> 01:09:09.000 yeah that would be amazing 1394 01:09:09.041 --> 01:09:09.700 yeah we love that 1395 01:09:09.741 --> 01:09:10.492 I love cooking 1396 01:09:11.040 --> 01:09:12.199 and Mabel's an amazing 1397 01:09:12.383 --> 01:09:12.998 yeah I love cooking 1398 01:09:13.565 --> 01:09:14.698 it's my expression of love 1399 01:09:14.942 --> 01:09:15.339 yeah yeah 1400 01:09:15.464 --> 01:09:15.838 it's one of them 1401 01:09:15.921 --> 01:09:16.656 you can taste it 1402 01:09:16.964 --> 01:09:17.300 yeah yeah 1403 01:09:17.381 --> 01:09:18.979 at home on the table 1404 01:09:19.081 --> 01:09:19.332 yeah 1405 01:09:19.986 --> 01:09:20.939 I missed that as a kid 1406 01:09:21.083 --> 01:09:21.740 that's one of the things 1407 01:09:21.823 --> 01:09:22.340 I first missed 1408 01:09:22.402 --> 01:09:22.999 when I left home 1409 01:09:23.082 --> 01:09:23.740 was like sitting 1410 01:09:23.801 --> 01:09:24.560 at the dinner table 1411 01:09:24.684 --> 01:09:24.892 yeah 1412 01:09:25.425 --> 01:09:26.499 that was one of the 1413 01:09:26.968 --> 01:09:27.580 funnest times 1414 01:09:27.700 --> 01:09:33.740 most fun times when my mum would join my mum's hilarious that was great times um so we have one 1415 01:09:33.820 --> 01:09:40.100 final question before we wrap up which is our closer question of the episode if there is one 1416 01:09:40.160 --> 01:09:48.220 word that you want to be remembered by what word is that imperfect there we go i care how people 1417 01:09:48.360 --> 01:09:56.940 feel i try my hardest to care if so and i feel how people feel um way across the room 1418 01:09:57.607 --> 01:09:58.740 all the way across this town. 1419 01:09:58.980 --> 01:10:01.300 If I love someone, I kind of feel like I have that gift 1420 01:10:01.360 --> 01:10:04.420 to know if they are sad or happy. 1421 01:10:05.681 --> 01:10:10.640 And I always want to try and do my best to make people happy. 1422 01:10:11.120 --> 01:10:12.940 I guess that's what my job is, really. 1423 01:10:14.121 --> 01:10:18.200 It's to highlight the common problems or issues 1424 01:10:18.723 --> 01:10:21.880 or pains or angst of people and say them out loud 1425 01:10:21.981 --> 01:10:23.820 so people don't feel like they're going through them alone. 1426 01:10:26.456 --> 01:10:27.180 that's my empathy 1427 01:10:27.362 --> 01:10:29.040 that's my love, that's my joy 1428 01:10:29.305 --> 01:10:29.939 that's my job 1429 01:10:30.844 --> 01:10:31.487 to be a waiter 1430 01:10:34.240 --> 01:10:36.920 and wait on people 1431 01:10:37.890 --> 01:10:38.739 that's what I like to do 1432 01:10:40.209 --> 01:10:41.699 so yeah, that's my empathy 1433 01:10:43.195 --> 01:10:43.539 Thank you 1434 01:10:43.903 --> 01:10:44.853 Thank you, appreciate it 1435 01:10:45.560 --> 01:10:46.600 Thank you so much 1436 01:10:46.600 --> 01:10:47.280 That was wonderful 1437 01:10:47.606 --> 01:10:48.320 Yeah, brilliant 1438 01:10:48.486 --> 01:10:48.798 Thank you 1439 01:10:50.047 --> 01:10:52.420 Thank you for joining us today at the WODcast 1440 01:10:52.801 --> 01:11:00.360 for our episode with Hack Baker, the musician, the poet, the artist redefining musical genres. 1441 01:11:00.800 --> 01:11:03.970 I'm so excited to listen to his upcoming album. 1442 01:11:04.732 --> 01:11:07.160 And most importantly, he reminds us of the 1443 01:11:07.200 --> 01:11:11.457 importance of love, which I found particularly poignant during today's episode. 1444 01:11:11.839 --> 01:11:12.200 What did you 1445 01:11:12.300 --> 01:11:12.802 think, Ben? 1446 01:11:12.822 --> 01:11:20.100 I love how he then connected romance to brotherhood and brought us bromance, which I 1447 01:11:20.160 --> 01:11:25.780 think is such an important concept absolutely the example that he gave the wonderful memory of him 1448 01:11:25.860 --> 01:11:32.680 and his bros i guess yeah um that really made my heart sing and of course shenanigans shenanigans 1449 01:11:32.881 --> 01:11:37.559 yeah we all need more shenanigans and i love the way he described it as cruelty free fun 1450 01:11:39.124 --> 01:11:45.020 great word great word so thanks hack yeah thank you hack and if you have any ideas of cruelty 1451 01:11:45.301 --> 01:11:50.700 free words it's such an interesting concept please share them with us we also would love it if you 1452 01:11:50.740 --> 01:11:56.920 could subscribe and follow and like and find all our podcasts in the places and share them share 1453 01:11:57.141 --> 01:12:04.100 with people who also like words um have some more shenanigans yeah oh and um keep your eyes peeled 1454 01:12:04.501 --> 01:12:10.380 for the upcoming what live events yes where we do hope to see hack again yeah absolutely that would 1455 01:12:10.500 --> 01:12:14.580 be really fun and then you could hear some of his music we'll keep our fingers and his poetry 1456 01:12:15.532 --> 01:12:16.139 see you next time 1457 01:12:16.789 --> 01:12:17.520 see you next Wednesday 1458 01:12:17.790 --> 01:12:18.019 bye 1459 01:12:18.248 --> 01:12:18.538 bye bye