Full Transcript for Wise Scientists 8: Federico Faggin

within quantum physics. 03:03.452 --> 03:12.527 [SPEAKER_01]: So if you're not quantum physics, then you can understand my point is showing where quantum physics is. 03:12.760 --> 03:28.181 [SPEAKER_01]: which is the representation of reality, and consciousness in free will, which are the ontology of reality, are actually meeting, and that is fundamental to joint spirituality with science. 03:29.783 --> 03:37.253 [SPEAKER_02]: In a way to have a theoretical notion that it is a good idea to join spirituality with science. 03:37.273 --> 03:37.754 [SPEAKER_02]: It's fine. 03:38.255 --> 03:39.677 [SPEAKER_02]: How do we actually proceed? 03:39.937 --> 03:42.160 [SPEAKER_02]: How do we encourage? 03:42.393 --> 03:49.920 [SPEAKER_02]: which is in the whole basis of this whole exchange, how do we embrace scientists and become wise scientists? 03:49.940 --> 03:51.321 [SPEAKER_02]: But that is happening. 03:51.421 --> 03:57.807 [SPEAKER_01]: One, once you can show this, the science will stop thinking the consciousness is the product of the brain. 03:58.888 --> 03:59.169 [SPEAKER_01]: Right? 03:59.829 --> 04:04.474 [SPEAKER_01]: Right now scientists are saying the consciousness produced in the brain, period. 04:04.754 --> 04:09.058 [SPEAKER_01]: It's not a phenomenon, a fundamental phenomenon of reality. 04:09.950 --> 04:12.913 [SPEAKER_01]: So, how are we going to chase their mind? 04:12.953 --> 04:19.561 [SPEAKER_02]: I don't think that an easy way to change anybody's mind. 04:19.581 --> 04:28.731 [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, we have the whole delio commission has been set up to indicate that matter is not the primary quality, which is consciousness. 04:29.292 --> 04:33.797 [SPEAKER_02]: So, this has been going on for at least five or six years now. 04:35.549 --> 04:39.032 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, I mean, are we going to debate when I boost first? 04:39.092 --> 04:39.873 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't care. 04:39.913 --> 04:46.158 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm not saying that in first, we say the Constitution is fundamental, so I don't know where the problem is here. 04:47.699 --> 04:52.784 [SPEAKER_02]: Now, the problem is not to know whether fundamentally it's consciousness of nature. 04:53.184 --> 05:05.134 [SPEAKER_02]: Question really more is how we encourage the scientists to at least be a little bit more interested 05:05.485 --> 05:11.896 [SPEAKER_02]: rather than just, I know this, I know that, so we can control this and that. 05:11.916 --> 05:17.625 [SPEAKER_01]: Starting from this scientist point of view, there is no way to join. 05:17.645 --> 05:24.056 [SPEAKER_01]: Scientists point of view, which is, you know, called psychoscientism, is actually a religion. 05:25.077 --> 05:29.164 [SPEAKER_01]: Because scientist point of view starts with the idea, 05:29.718 --> 05:35.485 [SPEAKER_01]: that only the only reality the matter is the reality that we can measure in space and time. 05:36.366 --> 05:47.800 [SPEAKER_01]: And quantum physics is simply a theory, mathematical theory, that can make correct predictions about what we can measure in space and time. 05:48.240 --> 05:51.043 [SPEAKER_01]: So quantum physics is not even ontology. 05:51.784 --> 05:54.848 [SPEAKER_01]: Quantum physics is just a mathematical theory. 05:55.520 --> 06:03.089 [SPEAKER_01]: And it describes the only reality that exists for them, which is what you can measure in space and time. 06:03.569 --> 06:07.694 [SPEAKER_01]: That is wrong, completely wrong as far as I'm concerned. 06:07.734 --> 06:09.816 [SPEAKER_01]: I believe as far as your concern as well. 06:10.257 --> 06:13.320 [SPEAKER_01]: But you're not going to change their mind by saying that you are wrong. 06:13.701 --> 06:16.484 [SPEAKER_01]: You have to show where the problem is. 06:16.524 --> 06:19.768 [SPEAKER_01]: And nobody has shown that problem before, point. 06:20.489 --> 06:20.889 [SPEAKER_01]: That's it. 06:21.269 --> 06:24.413 [SPEAKER_01]: So if you don't like it, I don't care. 06:24.578 --> 06:32.770 [SPEAKER_02]: But now since you have shown that point, I have anybody's mind changed. 06:32.790 --> 06:44.568 [SPEAKER_01]: In fact, actually, I have now several physicists that are actually saying, well, we are studying your ideas and you know, well, you know, so in other words, it took six years but it helped. 06:44.588 --> 06:51.598 [SPEAKER_01]: It took 18 years for scientists to recognize that one to man-tanglement exists. 06:52.068 --> 07:01.922 [SPEAKER_01]: and quantum entanglement is what allows to say that the universe is actually holistic, is non-made of separable parts. 07:02.262 --> 07:03.364 [SPEAKER_01]: That's another truth. 07:03.524 --> 07:05.907 [SPEAKER_01]: It starts from the data, it goes on from there. 07:07.830 --> 07:13.118 [SPEAKER_01]: But now physicists are, they have to accept their own findings. 07:13.919 --> 07:19.847 [SPEAKER_01]: So, if you start from the hole and the hole is holistic, then 07:20.232 --> 07:26.863 [SPEAKER_01]: You have to start from the hole and derive the parts, not vice versa, which is what physicists are doing. 07:26.943 --> 07:42.229 [SPEAKER_01]: They start from the parts which are separate and they are tried to make him come into wholeness, which is impossible because you cannot take separate parts and make a hole when you have separated, you know, are betrayingly. 07:42.750 --> 07:44.974 [SPEAKER_01]: So that's another fundamental point. 07:45.443 --> 08:06.658 [SPEAKER_01]: In other words, we don't believe that you can get physicists or scientists to even look at this reality of consciousness first, unless you give them very strong reasons to move away from a intellectual conviction, which is now dominating science. 08:07.313 --> 08:10.498 [SPEAKER_00]: If I could just come in here, Federico. 08:11.319 --> 08:17.529 [SPEAKER_00]: Ravi was when he was at Princeton, was very familiar with a new quite well, John Wheeler. 08:18.892 --> 08:24.340 [SPEAKER_00]: And I think John Wheeler took a similar view of this non-separation.

08:25.262 --> 08:27.866 [SPEAKER_00]: Would you like to comment on that Ravi or Federico? 08:29.429 --> 08:31.532 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, let me hear Ravi first. 08:31.985 --> 08:42.859 [SPEAKER_02]: And now I don't know really whether I have much to say about it, it is true that he is the one who very much insisted that we should not separate these things. 08:43.619 --> 08:49.747 [SPEAKER_02]: But whether it has become part of the general physics thinking, that is, did you come to say it? 08:49.767 --> 08:51.069 [SPEAKER_02]: I don't understand. 08:51.089 --> 08:55.554 [SPEAKER_02]: So maybe if I do a quick journey of art, to convince the physicist, to think like that. 08:55.955 --> 08:58.498 [SPEAKER_02]: But I agree on the other hand, this notion, 08:59.339 --> 09:02.505 [SPEAKER_02]: that consciousness can exist even without a matter. 09:03.486 --> 09:06.131 [SPEAKER_02]: For example, the so-called narrow death experiences. 09:06.231 --> 09:18.152 [SPEAKER_02]: We have thousands of those experiences now, in which a person is officially dead, not breathing, the heart is not bleeding, but they're still unconsciousness. 09:18.613 --> 09:22.680 [SPEAKER_02]: When they come back alive, they can even say what they're not present to the nose. 09:23.943 --> 09:33.711 [SPEAKER_02]: So, that notion does not have to come from going to mechanics, that comes even from other very scientific observations. 09:33.731 --> 09:37.855 [SPEAKER_02]: Those observations are not just being made randomly by people. 09:37.875 --> 09:44.621 [SPEAKER_02]: Near death, experiencing that now, at this time, we have thousands of those experiences reported. 09:44.641 --> 09:52.988 [SPEAKER_01]: Robby, I'm very familiar with, you know, near death experiences. 09:53.339 --> 10:10.516 [SPEAKER_01]: for 50 years, you think the physicists are going to look this kind of evidence which is kind of soft for them is not something that you can measure, not something that you can repeat in an experimental lab. 10:11.436 --> 10:12.718 [SPEAKER_01]: They're now going to look at that. 10:12.798 --> 10:22.367 [SPEAKER_01]: So I mean, I know if physicists, because I wasn't one, and I still am one, and I'm still trying to connect physics 10:22.786 --> 10:51.780 [SPEAKER_01]: but physics, physics has to open up to that and also to the advantage to open up to the rationality of physics, because both parts are actually not working together, and that is a major issue and I want to stress that, because there is a sort of, I know it all from both sides, and it's time to stop this, it's time to actually try to join in the middle and understand what's going on. 10:53.667 --> 11:05.721 [SPEAKER_02]: But by the time somebody actually begins to do research in physics, they have already been trained mentally or different. 11:05.741 --> 11:22.881 [SPEAKER_02]: So the impression that we get is that what is required is not necessarily trying to convince those scientists, for those physicists who are deeply involved in physics, but before they got involved in physics, 11:23.198 --> 11:33.408 [SPEAKER_02]: different perspective on life, but you're saying that if they understand that theoretical interpretation of what you're saying, that would change your mind. 11:34.810 --> 11:49.965 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, I'm saying that that's one of the direction in which I'm moving, I'm also moving in a different direction, which is to find in methods by which people can actually experience their connection with the homeless. 11:51.143 --> 12:06.335 [SPEAKER_01]: But again, you know, if we're going to argue, I don't think it's useful because I think it's, you know, it's, you know, I don't like the idea that we have to take a very strong position and don't even move an inch on that position. 12:06.355 --> 12:12.207 [SPEAKER_01]: So I work now is of course still in this theoretical side and it's much to say about that. 12:12.440 --> 12:18.207 [SPEAKER_01]: also on the experimental side because species is believed in the value of experiments. 12:18.267 --> 12:24.174 [SPEAKER_01]: So I have experiments going on to prove that plants are conscious. 12:24.194 --> 12:38.110 [SPEAKER_01]: If I'm able to prove that plants are conscious, then 80% of the theories that start with conscious as a property of the brain will be falsified. 12:38.478 --> 12:45.588 [SPEAKER_01]: And as you know, falsification in physics is crucial to get people to move off the wrong theory. 12:46.929 --> 12:49.413 [SPEAKER_01]: And there is a certain honesty, even in physics. 12:49.453 --> 12:52.096 [SPEAKER_01]: So it's not a question that you'll change your mind. 12:52.116 --> 13:03.912 [SPEAKER_01]: But if you give it a true measurement, and they see the way the second, I got accepted, it takes much longer than should, as I said, 13:04.195 --> 13:15.155 [SPEAKER_01]: entanglement that was something that Einstein didn't want at all, entanglement took 80 years before it was accepted as reality. 13:15.556 --> 13:20.024 [SPEAKER_01]: First, the first 50 nobody could do the experiments, so people forgot about it. 13:20.505 --> 13:26.676 [SPEAKER_01]: Then when the first experiments showed that there was entanglement in 82, I believe, in 1982. 13:26.977 --> 13:30.787 [SPEAKER_01]: Then they started saying, no, no, you made the experiment wrong. 13:30.827 --> 13:34.797 [SPEAKER_01]: No, you shouldn't, you didn't consider that. 13:34.817 --> 13:36.582 [SPEAKER_01]: You went on for 30 years. 13:36.798 --> 13:47.855 [SPEAKER_01]: to make new experiments to answer yes or no to all the objections they were made to entanglement in every time entanglement came out winning. 13:48.396 --> 13:51.380 [SPEAKER_01]: So now everybody understands entanglement. 13:51.400 --> 14:03.058 [SPEAKER_01]: The meantime they forgot about, you know, to think about what it means to have entanglement, but never mind that, but now everybody knows the recent entanglement and nobody knows why. 14:03.528 --> 14:07.533 [SPEAKER_01]: an

entanglement, of course, is obviously that everything is interconnected. 14:08.134 --> 14:12.160 [SPEAKER_01]: So you can say, well, we knew that since the debate, so what the hell is that? 14:12.801 --> 14:22.333 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, I mean, not everybody has had extraordinary spiritual consciousness to the gave that important insight. 14:22.654 --> 14:25.738 [SPEAKER_01]: So we have to meet in the middle. 14:25.818 --> 14:30.244 [SPEAKER_01]: We cannot just take a position of the, we knew that forever, so who cares? 14:30.764 --> 14:33.609 [SPEAKER_01]: which is that that's not, that's not useful. 14:35.031 --> 14:41.944 [SPEAKER_00]: Now I think the point that you're both making is that this transformation comes through experience. 14:42.044 --> 14:43.647 [SPEAKER_00]: And that was the case for yourself. 14:44.067 --> 14:50.258 [SPEAKER_01]: And so I'm working to have schools that allow people to actually experience that. 14:50.318 --> 14:52.502 [SPEAKER_01]: Of course, you have to be open to experience. 14:52.837 --> 15:03.187 [SPEAKER_01]: and that are not every thesis in fact in majority of your thesis are not open to experience, but even if you change ten of them, that's enough. 15:03.648 --> 15:04.549 [SPEAKER_01]: This is start. 15:05.790 --> 15:17.502 [SPEAKER_02]: So I think what you're saying is clearly helpful and useful, but have you so far spoken to many physicists who are actually practicing doing physics? 15:17.582 --> 15:21.966 [SPEAKER_01]: I have done that in several 15:22.486 --> 15:42.807 [SPEAKER_01]: last year, I did 200 conferences, which is a lot, and you know, among the crowd, there were many physicists, obviously, there were not those who were not the director, or if 15:43.073 --> 15:56.153 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, in fact, people that spoke on the conference that they're dating Switzerland last year, they didn't know my wife worked and they kind of look at me with a kind of a little eyes like say, but the hell are you talking about? 15:56.614 --> 16:03.104 [SPEAKER_01]: You know, now they are actually, they want to meet and to talk and to explore. 16:03.164 --> 16:07.090 [SPEAKER_01]: And so that's one thing that happened, just turn the last, 16:07.593 --> 16:08.314 [SPEAKER_01]: Seven months? 16:08.994 --> 16:36.638 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, I think that often what happens is that people come up to you afterwards, and they might not want to ask a question in public to show they're interested, but they'll come up and talk afterwards and say the informal conversations can really lead to, you know, fruitful avenues, I think. 16:38.221 --> 16:51.690 [SPEAKER_02]: So I am fed up of that you have actually been able to release for so many few physicists in any case to look more and more thinking into this and we are continuing that for some sort of stuff. 16:52.261 --> 17:10.269 [SPEAKER_00]: Can I just bring in another angle here, which you may not be aware of, and that's that Ravi was a friend of A.H. Armstrong who translated Plotinus's Inniads into English and edited them. 17:10.289 --> 17:13.515 [SPEAKER_00]: And Federico's father was the equivalent in Italy. 17:14.877 --> 17:20.125 [SPEAKER_00]: So he translated the Inniads into Italian, and I think they 17:20.105 --> 17:23.890 [SPEAKER_00]: probably but the kindness has had an influence on both of you. 17:24.932 --> 17:30.820 [SPEAKER_01]: Not from Latin, from Greek, from Greek, but into South, from Greek, into... 17:30.880 --> 17:49.605 [SPEAKER_01]: There have been, you know, many more translation from Latin or from maybe French or German or English into Italian, but there is only two that were in Italy that were done from the actual, you know, ancient texts. 17:50.227 --> 17:58.377 [SPEAKER_01]: and my father was one of them the last one and his translation was considered by far the best. 17:58.397 --> 18:03.884 [SPEAKER_01]: But when my father did that, I couldn't care less about spirituality if I had to be frank with you. 18:06.487 --> 18:15.458 [SPEAKER_01]: And so he was only because I had an extraordinary experience of consciousness that you know, that I was turned from this way to that way. 18:16.147 --> 18:18.629 [SPEAKER_01]: I realized that I'm not separate from the world. 18:18.849 --> 18:21.392 [SPEAKER_01]: I realized that I am part 12. 18:22.052 --> 18:23.734 [SPEAKER_01]: In other words, I'm an observer. 18:24.455 --> 18:26.677 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm both the observer and the observer. 18:27.518 --> 18:29.700 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm the actor as well. 18:29.960 --> 18:37.867 [SPEAKER_01]: But I have a point of view, I have a perspective, which is the perspective, which my field, not my body, my field was created. 18:39.248 --> 18:45.394 [SPEAKER_01]: So it was this perspective, this happened 18:45.796 --> 18:54.227 [SPEAKER_01]: So from that point, I explore consciousness and decided that after I realized that he had to be fundamental. 18:54.848 --> 19:12.512 [SPEAKER_01]: There is no way to explain consciousness from physics, you know, physics, you know, matter without consciousness cannot, you cannot produce consciousness, matter without free will, cannot produce free will, and both free will and consciousness must work together. 19:12.796 --> 19:25.388 [SPEAKER_01]: at least at the level of the field that are generated by one, one, the unified field. 19:25.537 --> 19:33.946 [SPEAKER_01]: You know, of course, to speak of free will for one is kind of silly because, you know, one, one does what he wants, since there is only one. 19:34.927 --> 19:52.405 [SPEAKER_01]: But, you know, the creations of one, the emanations of one, the fields that we are, those have need free will because they represent the same direction, which one wants to know itself and through us, one knows itself. 19:52.807 --> 20:00.120 [SPEAKER_01]: So those things are not, you know, they come more from my own experience than by reading texts. 20:00.141 --> 20:07.935 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm not repeating one of the people who are seeing how I am

actually arriving at the same conclusion through my own personal experiences. 20:08.396 --> 20:10.920 [SPEAKER_01]: And that's what spirituality should be. 20:11.201 --> 20:14.527 [SPEAKER_01]: You should not be repeating what the ancients have said. 20:15.148 --> 20:16.671 [SPEAKER_01]: It is by 20:17.140 --> 20:22.527 [SPEAKER_01]: understanding, comprehending, through our own lived experience. 20:22.547 --> 20:27.334 [SPEAKER_01]: This is my philosophy, and I believe in it simply because it works for me. 20:27.354 --> 20:38.669 [SPEAKER_01]: And I have had many, many, many hundreds of extraordinary experiences of consciousness, that tell me that I'm closer to the truth. 20:38.869 --> 20:41.072 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm not saying that what I'm saying is the truth, but 20:41.440 --> 20:49.161 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm certainly, I feel I strongly and I'm closer to the truth, based on the experiences, what repeating what to yourself. 20:50.223 --> 20:57.643 [SPEAKER_00]: But I think that those richies themselves, with a rived at the all-conclusion, by their experience, 20:58.180 --> 21:01.645 [SPEAKER_00]: And so there's a comparative comparison of experience here. 21:02.306 --> 21:05.130 [SPEAKER_00]: And so they're coming from the same basis as it were. 21:05.190 --> 21:12.119 [SPEAKER_00]: But what you're doing, which is new, which you've been explaining to us, is formulating this from the physics angle. 21:12.620 --> 21:14.262 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, no, no, no. 21:14.283 --> 21:26.820 [SPEAKER_01]: Physicians have been able to even come close to say these things that I'm saying, because they, many are, they look down with majority, like many spiritual people look down at the physicists. 21:27.020 --> 21:48.977 [SPEAKER_01]: you know, there is no way to come to a middle to find the harmonized tool for the mental points of view, the intuitive point of view and the inner experiential point of view and the rationality and the outer experiential point of view that had to be united, they have to come together. 21:50.223 --> 22:01.667 [SPEAKER_01]: The rituality must also become highly rational and rationality as to become highly intuitive because there are things that can only be known by experience in them. 22:02.288 --> 22:04.593 [SPEAKER_01]: but there are other things that can only be known. 22:04.953 --> 22:07.839 [SPEAKER_01]: We used to ring about things, so that's my view. 22:08.540 --> 22:13.129 [SPEAKER_00]: Back to you, Ravi, because I think this very much chimes in with your own experience. 22:13.209 --> 22:24.752 [SPEAKER_00]: When you're talking about yoga, for instance, and there's a certain objectivity in both science and spirituality in your estimation. 22:25.508 --> 22:40.270 [SPEAKER_02]: There is a very strong emphasis in all spiritual practices, all spiritual stages, that there are many levels of realities, several of them, that the mind needs to be provided. 22:41.992 --> 22:54.250 [SPEAKER_02]: This is almost the fundamental suggestion in them, but quite in the mind doesn't mean to be at least the mind, but is really not perceiving 22:54.517 --> 23:10.415 [SPEAKER_02]: Unception for perceiving by perception, by directly seeing something, and maybe if I do go into meaning that there is directly seeing something, and then these of course expressing this in the necessary language used by a physicist. 23:11.456 --> 23:23.089 [SPEAKER_02]: So that's where the one comes at it from one's perception and then try to express it 23:23.710 --> 23:30.597 [SPEAKER_02]: or whether one is thinking about something and then he is to try to say what one should experience. 23:31.638 --> 23:36.043 [SPEAKER_02]: And it seems to me, Frederick was feeling a connection between the two. 23:38.105 --> 23:45.813 [SPEAKER_02]: But he will yourself sometimes feel Frederick Wood in kind of strong sense of love for everybody when it comes to it. 23:46.174 --> 23:49.397 [SPEAKER_02]: Which is the kind of impression one gets with any of the stages. 23:50.322 --> 24:03.778 [SPEAKER_02]: Now, some of them, of course, traditional stages like Christ of the Buddha, but even contemporary ones, I have to ask some of these people, some Zen masters, some sacred, or more things than all of the Zen people. 24:03.798 --> 24:04.999 [SPEAKER_02]: They are exhilarating of them. 24:07.102 --> 24:10.506 [SPEAKER_02]: That seems to be the feeling of spirituality from their childhood. 24:11.807 --> 24:20.177 [SPEAKER_02]: But when you say that science is bringing for your bringing, science goes to spirituality, 24:20.478 --> 24:34.120 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, my first, what I call my awakening experience is that how to me came a beam of white sentilating light. 24:34.821 --> 24:40.630 [SPEAKER_01]: There was love of which I've never even perceived demanded to it. 24:40.650 --> 24:48.342 [SPEAKER_01]: I was 10,000 times deeper, stronger than anything that I've experienced. 24:48.676 --> 24:54.747 [SPEAKER_01]: And then this, and my consciousness was in this beam of beam of love. 24:55.489 --> 25:02.963 [SPEAKER_01]: And then he exploded, everything was white light, synthilating light, and my consciousness was in this light. 25:03.664 --> 25:09.134 [SPEAKER_01]: So now I am experiencing myself, both as the observer and the observer. 25:10.817 --> 25:11.258 [SPEAKER_01]: And 25:11.997 --> 25:34.444 [SPEAKER_01]: as I alluded before that that experience changed my point of view completely and I'm doing this because I follow that experience and try to understand and make sense of it both from within and from within this sense was so more powerful than any sense that I had before but it wasn't enough. 25:34.846 --> 25:48.421 [SPEAKER_01]: So I had to do it also from without and trying to express it and actually tell people that they had this capacity that they can do this. 25:49.482 --> 25:58.052 [SPEAKER_01]: And so and that they can prove to themselves that they are not the body because otherwise it's an intellectual thing. 25:59.315 --> 26:13.307 [SPEAKER_01]: I've done that, and I don't care whether that is on the top of the list or the bottom of the list, that of the experiential wonderful things, the one can have, I mean, just that is what I did. 26:15.209 --> 26:22.756 [SPEAKER_02]: And you are hope of course that people have an issue and some of the work to progress this. 26:22.776 --> 26:28.461 [SPEAKER_02]: And not only do you need a theoretical point, but you have to have a life situation of the labor. 26:29.504 --> 26:40.141 [SPEAKER_01]: I hope so, because that's ultimately what is all about, it's not just about intellect or knowledge, it's about who are we and what are we here to do? 26:40.902 --> 26:41.463 [SPEAKER_00]: Absolutely. 26:41.844 --> 26:56.727 [SPEAKER_00]: The rabbi is renthing else you'd like to ask Federico by way of conclusion or anything else Federico would like to add. 26:57.365 --> 27:02.171 [SPEAKER_02]: almost everything that we now know is it was unknown about 140 years ago. 27:02.752 --> 27:25.701 [SPEAKER_02]: So I keep thinking that surely in the next 140 years or 1400 years we discover something that is now unknown and therefore to imagine that now we have come to the end of the 27:26.238 --> 27:29.182 [SPEAKER_02]: So I wonder what strategy was from the beginning of this. 27:29.202 --> 27:33.509 [SPEAKER_02]: So what will come to, we don't know what will happen in that 1400 years. 27:34.951 --> 27:37.896 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know what it means for the other year. 27:38.957 --> 27:41.802 [SPEAKER_01]: And I don't even try to understand. 27:41.822 --> 27:52.718 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, all I want to do is to find a way to open the minds and the heart of people that are now confused. 27:53.339 --> 27:57.129 [SPEAKER_01]: and how to do that with a lot of love, frankly. 27:57.570 --> 27:58.974 [SPEAKER_01]: So that's what I'm trying to do. 27:58.994 --> 28:01.581 [SPEAKER_01]: You know, I'm not. 28:01.601 --> 28:04.850 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't care if I'm firstack on a third. 28:05.451 --> 28:09.863 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm just one to do this because I feel it with you. 28:10.535 --> 28:11.958 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, thank you both very much. 28:12.078 --> 28:15.064 [SPEAKER_00]: I think that's a wonderful way of finishing. 28:15.224 --> 28:17.188 [SPEAKER_00]: And we all, we're all here to do our work. 28:17.348 --> 28:20.273 [SPEAKER_00]: We'll ever work that is, and to do it in a spirit of love. 28:21.035 --> 28:24.060 [SPEAKER_00]: So thank you so much for joining today. 28:24.101 --> 28:25.764 [SPEAKER_00]: Thank you. 28:25.784 --> 28:26.485 [SPEAKER_00]: Thank you, Ravi.