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ABOUT THIS EPISODE

He killed off his parents, by air and by sea. He ran over his twin brother Phil, and killed him too. What are we to make of these fanciful stories Hamish made up about his life? We've called in experts. And, we've gathered bevy of ex-girlfriends to give us their take on their time with Hamish.
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00:00:00this investigation who the hell is Jaime's is my possible thanks to subscribe to the Australian
00:00:07Praxis 2 additional material connected to the series and investigations in news coverage please search for the Australian subscription
00:00:17and what did the book of the stories he told about his family
00:00:24his parents had died in a sailing accident off the coast of New Zealand now this story got more more developed and he added bits over time so they died saving accident he was a kid like a baby or two like a smoke head he's sisters to Three Sisters had survived and this was off the coast of New Zealand where are they grown up on a small island this is Charlie and his time with Tracy hole
00:00:57dinosaur dating app in London in 2015 a set this thing about him having to move to Australia and being broke by announcing cool you didn't like him but they save it as sisters they didn't like him at all and he was kind of left out but he said he had a very good friend who was wonderful boys and accept his friend his parents took him into the wing because the parents already had four boys in the house so I didn't end of the boy wasn't anything extra so he said he sold them as a woman.
00:01:37hasn't happened Charlie came to Australia in 2016 on a long-planned working Holiday by this time she and him should speed up the American city Heat Yoga paddle boarding at Palm Beach she was thrilled to be going to the beach might Famous by Haim and why don't we did that and that is going to drop in for my aunt and uncle that disowned me from my sisters on the way there is quite a g and use it the whole Community retirement community and he's going to look at this shit hole look at this shit hole look he would live here or what is it is very to Rocket tree Community Park
00:02:33this was another publication it was a honey bees parents fill up a name Watson they still live there today I was just dying in the car that died was directed at thing his mother and father at this point in the story we need to talk about heimish with an expert he's at some level of charismatic person there's an air of mystery about him that he's created you know how the death of the parents in a plane crash in the death of his brother at his hand always supposed to things biking exciting and mysterious which makes him a good proposition in terms of establishing relationships life would never be doll with heimish this is Criminal psychologist he spent the past 40 Years. Of the folded paper like I'm he's examining what drives them
00:03:26he reckons time she's almost certainly a psychopath or sociopath two times he says the main the same thing and absence of empathy
00:03:37Chinese elaborate constructions were not just a symptom of a compulsive liar that were part of his strategy by the guy in sympathy strike can I have a parents were killed and I'll let you know it probably is dead I killed him I'm entrusting you with this big secret and the price is a huge honest of responsibility on the post and get that information some odd side and unconscious little insect hi to his parents and you know this was his wife living out that fantasy Who would know I didn't examine him but that could be an interpretation of that sort of message that he's giving play for
00:04:20Hungry Bear out this podcast who the hell is Jaime's he's brought the newspaper
00:04:27I think I just
00:04:30I just want to understand why and how he could do it and like what just walkers on Amy's head how did you get away with it for so long out the 70 questions so what am I timer such a pathological law that a dream at WISE to kill his parents Bike Line in my boat and then run out of his twin brother Fuel and kill him off to act as a father figure to two nights Jack ryzen dispensing wisdom of man who was sleeping with Jack seventeen-year-old girl frame John how could he have an affair with giant while I empty my bank account so the grandparents Peter and Lorraine cross how can I activate a sleep soundly next to Tri-C whole while stealing a lot of sightings cheat on team did he ever love her
00:05:18it's hard to guy it's what you can't really love somebody who steal from them and there's a pattern with her just ongoing lies obfuscation avoidance a meticulous avoid admitting her friends and family he seduced her and many wise antonyms of grooming her guiding a trust romantic Braxton bar and buy and sell them at a call she fell in love with him or fell in love with a person that she thought he was but that was interesting that she then said well I'm not longer and Loud because of the person I loved was a fantasy but for him called hard calculating ruthless exploitation of psychology into believing that he really loved his wife and that there was nothing suspicious in his relationship with his son's girlfriend these people are very skilled and what I do this store is a we'll rehearse
00:06:18and the body language is well rehearsed and they have a great capacity as I said to pick up on the weaknesses and vulnerabilities of all those so in that context are you going to be on God in your life to the person playing to your own weaknesses and incoming of the cop had 41 years experience in dealing with soccer Pat's light for me it's a comparatively easy but I think if you're not feeling in the criminal mail you then it probably is more difficult because you take people at face value and you you gather that they there in the spirit of being genuine and they buy the party's a true
00:07:04we have my numerous attempts to contact his family to see if I could shed some light on these questions that declined to be interviewed
00:07:12the pain he's caused them must also be a men's
00:07:16the number of people she was happy to talk but didn't want to be out in the front
00:07:29she was having his girlfriend went out by teenagers talking to me not in IDs School 15 or 16
00:07:44I met him when I was a boy on you he's a good friend of mine and he has an exclusive private school on CDs Northern beaches that I'm shorthanded honest and kind and Sophie boy he was from Avalon and because my brother would actually family home and sleep on the couch
00:08:40can you record what he was like like a receipt was he was he conned and was typically RV Staffing Boise love to serve what can I do for friends at school his relationship with his parents house or one of these nights from school some people to help you need to know or anybody's Mom and Dad I think once but there was any indication
00:09:40that's what was the trade and if I said I he had so many friends at school and if you want Sprite and I never wanted to call him and I used to call him back sure out Avalon has well she was the how was I screwed up but I kept in touch throughout the years I miss your voice coil on the best tight ends and I'm still hard for me to believe that because he was just
00:10:26I read that I was like that's ridiculous like cold until something else and I don't know the time. Of these so I was one of you knows that you should buy at the time
00:10:52and there's no indication of any of this kind of waiting at an always giggling as I actually somewhere online where people can put comments on the news stories on our way to someone breaks something like that. How could you do this to people you are such a good kid from Avalon
00:11:43she's not the only one shock the hand on the good kid from Avalon could turn out to be such a monster
00:11:50we contacted the Sammy from Avalon the time she was very close to they tell a similar story The Father hangs his best Mike's dad spoke to us but didn't want to be identified
00:12:03can you show this man is a father figure
00:12:05these are his cards right by someone else you live down here and have along with his mom and dad and went to school with my son's tell very close to my wife and I were very close to him he's too he's always rented a place he didn't drink you didn't smoke and didn't do the drugs he actually worked hard to keep these nights off the drugs and everything he's a good boy. Hey meshawn you was not the Jaime ship now what am I can understand and with all these friends can't understand is why I started to rip people off and on either Canadian government looking for it and it could certainly not the guy back today
00:12:40several people have told me the time she's parents with cold and distant and he concurs with that assessment I asked if I knew she had a good relationship with his father not now he didn't he came up to a place one night and he said he was being teased and he said and that wasn't heimish
00:12:57Jaime was a tough guy he said I've just come home there's a sign on the front lawn the side of the house is for sale and Mom and Dad didn't tell me anything about it
00:13:06the moving up to up to North Sydney to be closer to the city or one thing or another his father was an insurance man I think house
00:13:20Sanford being the brilliant mathematical mind so that by NASA time is she supposed to be turned and left school at the end of your 10 he was working as a library for landscaping but this man says he never sort of dishonesty from Young hand on there's always a great Storyteller that's not Dad about him he was Walter Mitty he knew how to tell a story but it wasn't a crook in this man's son can play these high school certificate Haney's nights planned Escape trip to Canada to celebrate the end of school
00:13:51time to drop that two years earlier but was also invited he had never skated before it was I'm sure if you should go he didn't want to make the trip for his friends like he was uncertain but I said I'd say that you'll pick it up and he did at the story all I got was that he made a nation going out of they just got locked him and he helped Jaime's get set up his feet just try to he came back here and that's what he did he shoots his business might do a problem with money
00:14:23who's on the Sydney futures for This Walter Mitty character would refine his Spiel he learn how to turn a trick Love Lies into a river of gold is in a few short he's returning from that first ski trip to Canada X Watson with stealing millions of dollars all of it without any real consequences
00:14:43my name is Clinton free I'm a professor at the University of Sydney who researches and teaches in the area of white collar crime in the US in an attempt to understand the motivations of these what color Crooks it's the classic theoretical modeling in fraud is going to call the fraud triangle has a full triangle is that fraud occurs when there's a Confluence of three things an opportunity to commit fraud a motivated offender and a rationalization inability to provide some sort of justification for what might otherwise be seen as misconduct and in the research I've done it being quite interested in that idea of rationalization and then have done interviews with has hundreds of of different offenders who've been given custodial sentences for the fraud both in Australia rent the US and there is a small minority of people that who I think don't require
00:15:42my section so that they are able to be manipulative there are able to to to lie the Rival to lack empathy and it was a small group of society that doesn't require that didn't and you know that the term sociopath I think you sometimes used in reference informally to that vet that category and he says a degree require rationalization to commit fraud they tend to be much more likely to engage in significant Ford really substantial amounts of Florida very extended periods of time so one of the characteristics I think that's discernible of people who have taken very large sums of money with multiple offenders over long periods of time often is an absolute indifference to the the the the victim's plight
00:16:42condolence from a range of victims this. So he's crying is being the fault of the victim the criminal tell the academi that there was a queue of Grady people riding to line up to invest in his skin and I thought he said everything that happened to Professor free said that among the sociopath seen of you this was common I rationalize their actions by blaming the victim really position the victim as being party to the misconduct that they were actively involved because I would Grady or they didn't do a sufficient you diligence it's a really interesting repositioning a reframing of a fraud as as as effectively yoyoyo placing the blame and some cents is on on the on the victim and I think is it is a certain psychology which lends itself to doing that
00:17:42he's criminality what we do know is that there's a very strong association between offending and people who feel that others our finding so if we for an environment for example of the finance industry is taken as an example of face that seem to have crime of Jeannie elements to associate seems to be an environment where there is a criminal activity with a real inside of trading with a read shop practice people tend to be much more likely to engage with it where they surrounded by what we might call a crime of Jeannie culture many floats does he says I'll put you in EST when I steal for a specific purpose does young mother for example to Cooks the books at our office to buy her kids Christmas presents and she's cool it's unlikely show on Family Game
00:18:33that's not the case behind me think if we think about someone like Hamish he has a track record of inflicting extremely significant pain Financial emotional on on his victims and it's not I don't think it be too late to think that I realistically short sentence and putting mat in the community is a part because it does seem to me that those people who lack empathy those people who've been highly manipulative if the trade in her family and friends and Trice it seems highly appropriate that they received substantial custodial sentences because the wrist II Society people like that is extremely is extremely high. He is a ria fendt that's what credit is due
00:19:2420 years ago this woman was engaged to Hamish Watson as you can guess it ended badly she's a long time to my little liver
00:19:35just cuz he's not a sexual predator he's a predator in otherwise he
00:19:43had the intention the intentions there it's all premeditated it's not just me that happens if it doesn't just like who I'm going to buy bread but I forgot to buy bread I bought bacon instead he has the intention of doing this and he has done it over and over for the last 20 years plus so what's what what makes you think he's going to do to behave any differently heard the story behind his twin brother to from numerous people who heard it secondhand here is the source and it was Mother's Day was coming up to nothing but stand and he said well why didn't you invite your mother down for Mother's Day so she came down and how can I actually and he had his hands in his lap
00:20:35with his head bowed down his bottom lip quivering I kind of like just half head half-cocked looking out of the ocean and both of us woke that looked at each other with your own God someone's kill this dog so what's going on and he told us the story like I told me his mother was a criminal and she had defended basically she got something to do you put Bikram in jail and on the back of that they will have to go into the witness protection program and I was sent down to Melbourne and because your lies were endangered and at the age of 16 in Rebellion he and his brother Phil stole a car how much was driving and he worked three days later to find out that he killed his brother Philip high speed crash you basically run into a telegraph pole and he said I can never go home again because mom looks at me and say spilled and the mother stays forever spent on my own
00:21:30and my mom and I looked at each other with a holy shit that's intense the identical twin brothers if you understand the connection with identical twins it's intense
00:21:41every year Hamish went off to Phil's then to get dressed in his suit and we feel sad and somber and your loan fast and be like I Will Wait days leading up to this is well until he jump on a plane and going by Phil's grave and then come back that afternoon and we will sad and somber not have dinner ready for him and everything and then X type into business normal we've been planning to get married and I have a conversation with his sister Julie rolquin afternoon and she want you like when you guys going to get married I really want to get married in October but we can't she's a why not I said because of Phil and see what dad feel that's in your brother is in the
00:22:27time is a technical twin brother and he said he's going to come over for a cup of coffee and I need that point my guts just fell out on a lot of shaking I just knew she was going to hit the fan you had a long time to think about this yes what is what are your theories on him
00:22:45Bryce haikaiss are personally the fact that he killed off Phil at the age of 16 and was identical twin brother and Phil is also the same as his father unless of all of a sudden there cuz I asked you what was your brother's name he's just pulled the near and I know your name from his memory I don't know why but I do see arise that he
00:23:10killed off the good part of himself in that car crash killed off the pot of himself it was funny that was kind that was generous that was loving that was honest it killed that pot and it was like what time is Watson possibly could you make his parents yes what was his relationship like with his parents Julian heimish seem to be closed his mother his father and his sister Penny no strange so much but they were for cold and distant as individuals but also with him and maybe that's because they knew he was not a beautiful woman he wants his fiance she says his seduction technique with simple I was listening to Beck rosen's account of him
00:24:07whiskey of the girl's name Tracy Tracy Tracy Holt account but she said he was engaged and he listened
00:24:15in a world where most men just want to fuck you when somebody comes in and they show interest in what you're saying they show interest in your hobbies they show interest in your life a thousand beyond having sex it's actually quite a turn on it and that'll work fine just for victims to learn everything you could about what they are interested in and he would talk to them about it he would listen to what I had to say it would make people believe he was a best friend and the sex kind of relationship Charlie the English woman who died in 2015 so she picked him as being org early in their relationship but we still fascinated by
00:25:01intrigued as Ranger dad ever come across someone quite like this before I think I knew there was something not quite right but I knew it didn't feel physically threatened at school I knew that wasn't an aggression I felt physically safe and he wasn't pushing for any sort of sexual intimacy at school so I didn't feel United the normal red flags that women would have liked intense the physical well-being they weren't being raised it was something else that was old but I felt safe shoes in white trinities Charlie says 6 on the rare occasions that Arrangement was like lobster vanilla basic almost went to the point where I was almost like having being with a Vengeance when he didn't know what they were doing
00:25:54someone who and he would always have a shower Fest was ready funny about that but it was like being with like a teenage boy actually someone who wasn't particularly confident sometimes he wouldn't take his top off most the time actually I think and I remember it being very vanilla very basic and Kanye and like the last day or two cuz I hadn't been I mean I wanted to and that hasn't been anything from his side on teammates 70 been reading this science fiction book I need economic just write 100 pages today proud of himself
00:26:54I think we were out there for like maybe 7 or 8 days and it was like day6 what's going on in the news are you say anything 14 take me to the cafe in Sydney
00:27:19time this woman didn't want to be identified but she sent us fighter and she had a payment on her phone
00:27:41play walking over to the other stories at his parents that he was in the car
00:28:23I got lost in a few months and as for the six they just wasn't any numb and I'm to listen
00:29:38it might be time to call in the expert again he's team what's in my mother often I avoid intimacy because I can't connect emotionally with people these girlfriends going to say it was always kind of amateurish that there was no connection there was like kind of having sex with a 16 year old boy for the first time and I did that was not what he was doing it would be consistent on the cob pipe with intimacy it's more mechanical it's more physical and if you don't look into the eyes of your lava because you're avoiding that it you know that I want to be discovered I'm sorry that I tend to objectify their victims that is like deal with them as objects rather than his people and so I avoid intimacy like that at all costs but it's real of intimacy is it safe to diagnose Jaime's as a psychopath
00:30:32I haven't examined him. He's very typical of con Banda probably in the top .1% intuitive his ability to giovanna's you dealing with somebody he is capable of considerable forward planning a well-established track record and is siargao on the diets back to at least the time that he was working in the stock market and he's fine with the skills I have the years with my soccer pass I have a great capacity to sign in on the the weaknesses of the floors of the vulnerabilities are they victims and that he does this with an immense capacity in terms of what he's done over the years
00:31:15church if you were going to Charlton I own is how do you feel about what you've done and that off and give you some in software that I have empathy with that I have inside and with that I have remorse quite often people find remorse but I think if you look at his history out of many years the amounts of money involved I'm just in a stride if it around the globe really it's a rhetorical question he might say that he feels very sorry but his actions of the use of demonstrated continued desire capacity to commit the crimes that he has cheese address on the name of Max the video that he get picked off heat he would never feel in the same play me cuz she's or he's boarding pass
00:32:14play mobile phone Joshua his methodology infect Squad simple so how to say to set up a post box number and wants you guy in the trust people particularly vulnerable should come out or divorce of course was looking for love you know she wanted to be in love and I was pretty easy in that regard how do you mark this was it was it was he born this way was it something from his childhood what makes a socket on general principles of the jury's out some sides Knight chess I'm sorry it's not you my view is it's a combination of thoughts so you can have bad genes and I can be potentially I to buy loss experiences we can be born into a very privileged Time Lady can be loved and son out of socket python on the list but generally this type of behavior tends to emerge failure early in life and it might have been that they were Hydro problems when he was younger
00:33:15will let his friends would be the best judge of that but it's almost a gift and Sensibility and I can be the unlock capacity to adapt to the environment you're in and ply to the audience and he does this very well do you think that he has the skill in the foresight to heat in the money I mean what was it was a long-term planning that he would have put in place the eventuality that cord eventually played The Lone gunmen who knows there's no signs of any money anywhere as I understand it but if he's capable of creating in Mike's hiding such elaborate hoaxes you would think it's part of the script to have a plan but a and to have the money off somewhere for a ride he died when you core
00:34:01module Buffet while before it gets to spend a design to stand it for you but I just want to understand what makes you tick is it just is it just nothing to understand he was just a selfish
00:34:21is octopath well he's bad he's not mad he's in touch with what he's doing its well-planned there a lot of people locked us out then and sadly Ferb night for Jack he's a he's a victim and there's nothing much more to understand beyond that I'm in the car track for these people is it that I trust this all's to the the perpetrators I believe in them and it comes as a really brutal Awakening when I realized it been gypped and robbed any chance of redemption about him but given general principles of protracted Nitro this top of the finding the calculated wine which has been done I'm not aware of any expressions of remorse consistent with soccer Pathak The Hive is Suck Without You from lost without him so I can without empathy the chances of recovery from the lat long tattoo behind your ear
00:35:22Kim just distant one of the question that I mean I wish you'd be more difficult in the future for Hemi swap right
00:35:31How would how would he do this
00:35:33we would this be striking is a guy a guy on the one hand inevitably because there's clearly a narcissistic Tendencies and he's behind it is a toxic narcissist who denies on the other hand it's going to shut down these guy in pretty dramatically but you could give him the the breadth of the audience with those particular podcast it's hard to say I think ultimately it's a good thing if people are where they sorts of crimes and 9 I should be proud to be more suspicious when they make people online or anywhere else for that matter
00:36:22at the end of their trip to Thailand in 2015 she was sorry we went to the apple and he said to me before we got our he said all right as soon as we get back he's our uncle to do wax stuff is like sorry let's just say goodbye now and I'll give you a call when you get back to London but soon as you get to the airport I'm going to have to be on my own
00:36:52so I was like fine and then he just ignored me as if I was invisible after that and the taxi will the way that in the airport and I just kept my distance and then there was an announcement for his name and it was Hamish McLaren can you come to the thing and it got off a McLaren pecan even read the head of the name a hat waited for him to be outside and then I Googled it and that was the most of the last time I'd like seeing him on that trip and that was when the stuff the 2014 on schools I still want to go with Lisa Lisa heart and I was like this is the character I was angry
00:37:42initially as long as I had a 14-hour flight back I'm feeling like initially like like how dare you insult my intelligence by Annoying Annoying Annoying and when I got home I remember saying which is ironic given the name of your podcast everything down the phone who you who I am
00:38:11taking me. Set and he was fisted and he was going to look look it's 8 a.m. in Sydney of just being for rent on feeding rates in shining urine you are you just come off this long flight urine rainy dawg England like this dreary and miserable during inflict you on negativity on some may I don't want miss a 8 a.m. in the morning you ruining my day
00:38:37but if someone asks you who you are surely you'd said you'd be able to say your name
00:38:51tell me how many times has brought to you by the Australian newspaper and produced by George
00:39:02Shemar Moore. Heimish please contact us at Jaime's podcast at estarland.com Dollar you to keep track of that investigation had to do that he's Jaime. Com. Are you they will also find additional material and treating these weights burn set the extended interview with criminal psychologist what's in Monroe

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