Full Transcript for Forensics

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00:00:07 Speaker 1: It's the evening of Friday, November twenty second, nineteen sixty three. Earlier that day in Dallas, President Kennedy had been shot. After the doctors at Parkland Hospital feverishly tried to save his life. At approximately one pm, he was officially pronounced dead. The president's body was then loaded onto Air Force one, flown to Washington, and taken to Bethesda Naval Medical Center, where a team of pathologists began not just the most important autopsy of their careers, but the most important autopsy in American history. Thirty six hours later, pathologists doctor j Thornton Boswell and doctor James Humes concluded their work. Humes finished the autopsy report at home. Now he fully understands the importance of this report. It'll be a central piece of the official record that describes how the president was killed. It will be part of history, and it has to be precise. But here's what he tells the Warrant Commission the following year. Now, Sola, Dad, could you read this. It's doctor Humes describing what he did that evening. 00:01:32 Speaker 2: Doctor Hume says, quote, in the privacy of my own home early in the morning of Sunday, November twenty fourth. I made a draft of this report which I later revised, and of which this represents the revision that draft I personally burned in the fireplace of my recreation room. 00:01:51 Speaker 1: Okay, could you repeat that last. 00:01:53 Speaker 2: Sentence, that draft I personally burned in the fireplace of my recreation room. So he's admitting to the Warrant Commission that he burned the original draft of the report, then made a revised draft, and. 00:02:10 Speaker 1: Once the revelation that Humes had burned the original copy of the autopsy, he had to continue to defend himself. 00:02:18 Speaker 2: In nineteen ninety two, doctor Humes told The New York Times that the original copy was stained with blood and he didn't want it to become a quote ghoulish collector's item. He insisted that the second report was copied verbatim, word for word from the draft he burned. 00:02:35 Speaker 1: If it was only about accepting the lame excuse of preserving the president's dignity, we might buy it. But burning the autopsy report wasn't the only thing about the forensic investigation that was suspicious, starting with the two so called forensic pathologists that were in charge. 00:02:53 Speaker 3: Humes and Boswell were not forensic pathologists. 00:02:57 Speaker 4: That's Doug Horn. 00:02:58 Speaker 2: From nineteen ninety five to eight, he was a senior staff member of the President John F. Kennedy Assassination Records Review Board, and he's an expert on the case. 00:03:09 Speaker 3: Now, it should be troubling to everybody who studies this case that the two people selected to be the number one and number two pathologist, these guys were pathologists who did deaths due to natural causes. So Hume's and Boswell really weren't qualified to be doing this autopsy, and yet they were picked. 00:03:28 Speaker 2: So you have two doctors who are not certified nor qualified in forensic pathology, and the lead doctor throws his notes into the fireplace before handing in a revised draft. 00:03:41 Speaker 1: And that's just the tip of the iceberg. 00:03:50 Speaker 4: This is who killed JFK. 00:03:52 Speaker 2: Sixty years later, What can we uncover about the greatest murder mystery in American history? And why does it still matter today? I'm your host, Solidad O'Brien. 00:04:04 Speaker 1: In the last episode, we learned that it was the intent of the Warren Commission to prove that Lee Harvey Oswald was the lone assassin of President Kennedy. Alan Dulles, the godfather of the CIA was placed on the Commission to make sure that any damning information about the CIA was kept hidden. J Edgar Hoover ignored evidence that might implicate anyone other than Oswald. Then, in nineteen seventy six, after learning that the Warren Commission had been compromised, the House Select Committee on Assassinations launched a new investigation, and though they were able to expose more than the Warren Commission had, they too learned afterwards that their efforts had been compromised because the liaison to the CIA that they were given there was a man named George Joannedes. He was a retired CIA agent who oversaw the special ops program that had recruited Lejarvey. Oswald and joan Edes made sure that the new committee never knew about that. And although the House investigation concluded that Kennedy was killed as a result of a conspiracy, they came to no conclusion as to who took part in it. The result two flawed government investigations with two completely different conclusions. 00:05:38 Speaker 4: So where does it leave us. 00:05:40 Speaker 1: Well, first, let's look at the forensics how the victim died. After that we'll take a look at the man who they claimed did it. We'll dive into Oswald's world. We'll find out who he really was, who he may have been working for, how he was set up, and who could have pulled this off. Then we'll have it all unfold again, from the days leading up to the assassination to the moment that Jack Ruby silenced Oswald, except this time, when we ultimately relive it, we'll know the forces hiding in the shadows behind it all. Okay, so let's get into this. In any murder case, the forensic evidence is critical. It paints the picture of how the victim died, and in this case, to prove a single gunman, the forensic evidence should be straightforward. But trust me, it's far from that. The bullets, the gun, the photographs, the doctor's first hand reports are all heavily disputed, and in this episode we're going to go through all of that. As I said, like any other murder, you need to understand the forensic evidence. 00:07:00 Speaker 5: Forensic evidence it mattered because it was essential in determining the site from which the shot was fired. 00:07:07 Speaker 6: That's the key to the case. 00:07:09 Speaker 4: That's doctor

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Cyril wet renowned forensic pathologists. 00:07:13 Speaker 5: The Warren commissioned report saying that Lee Harvey Oswald was the sole assassin, the sole shooter, and that he fired from behind from the sixth fur window of the Texas school Book Depository building, and that there were no other shooters. That's the essence of the case, because once you showed two shooters, then you've got, of course, a conspiracy. 00:07:39 Speaker 1: So let's take a look. According to the Warren report, Oswald fired three shots. 00:07:45 Speaker 4: How did they arrive at that number? 00:07:47 Speaker 1: It was based on two initial pieces of evidence. One was the Dallas police report and the second was the Subruder film. 00:07:57 Speaker 2: Remember the Dallas dressmaker Abraham's a Bruder, the whole thing on camera. 00:08:02 Speaker 1: The Saprudi film has no sound, so you can't hear the shots, but you can see the President being hit twice, and you can also see Governor Connolly sitting in the passenger seat in front of Kennedy also getting hit. The Zapruda film clearly shows three hits. So the Warren Commission established three shots. 00:08:27 Speaker 7: Unfortunately for them, there was a bystander named James tag. 00:08:31 Speaker 2: That's doctor David Mantick. Doctor Mantick has made nine visits to the National Archives where the President's x rays, autopsy photos, and other critical evidence sits available for select members of the public to review. You could try to get an appointment to see them, or you could read any of the three books doctor Mantick has written about them. According to doctor Mantick, this bystander was about to create a huge problem for the Warren Commission. 00:09:01 Speaker 7: James Tag was standing under the overpass to the left front of the limousine who was hit by some debris that may have been a piece of concrete. 00:09:11 Speaker 1: He's watching the motorcade when the first shot rings out and he feels something sharp hit him in the cheek. It was a piece of cement from the curb, and all of a sudden his cheek starts bleeding. So clearly the first shot completely missed the motorcade. 00:09:28 Speaker 7: So this left the Warrant Commission only two shots to work with to explain all the woods. So they knew that one bullet had to kill Kennedy via a headshot, So there goes one. You're only left with one more shot. With that one shot, you have to explain everything else. So that's where Arlen Spector rode to the rescue on his shining white Horse and invented the magic bullet theory. 00:09:54 Speaker 1: Otherwise known as the single bullet. 00:09:56 Speaker 5: Theory, and so now begins the saga of the single bullet theory. 00:10:02 Speaker 2: That's doctor Weckt again, and he deserves a full introduction. He's a highly decorated forensic expert who's done more than seventeen thousand autopsies and who's been probing the jfk assassination since the nineteen sixties. He's one of the most vocal critics of the Warren Report and the single bullet theory. 00:10:21 Speaker 5: Enter Arlen Spector, at that time junior legal consul for the Warren Commission. Spector, to his credit, came up with which seems to be a solution for them, and that is known as the single bullet theory. 00:10:34 Speaker 2: You'll remember Arlen Spector from our last episode. The journalist Gayton Fonsie pressed him on his single bullet theory, and when he gave Fonsie an evasive answer, Fonsie published a scathing article. 00:10:48 Speaker 5: The single bullet theory holds that one bullet entered the president's back to begin with, moved upward, moving then inside the president's chest eleven and a half degrees upward. How in the hell is that possible? When the bullet comes out. It's moving again downward, leftward, and forward, turns in midair, comes back eighteen twenty inches and hits calmly behind the right armpit, exiting below nipple level. The bullet in midair turns upward sweeping motion, goes into the wrist presses a common manufacture of one of the two line bones from the elbow to the wrist. Exits from the wrist, re enters the Governor's left thigh, and that is the pathway of the single bullet. 00:11:41 Speaker 2: The bullet presumably leaves the gun from the sixth floor of the building that's now above and behind Kennedy, and the bullet enters President Kennedy's back. Looking at a picture of the president's jacket which you can easily find online, the bullet hole is in the upper middle part of his suit coat. 00:11:59 Speaker 1: Right then it supposedly turns upward and comes out of his throat. 00:12:06 Speaker 5: Well, my colleagues are others who try to defend that Singapore theory. They say, well, what if the president were bent over tying his shoe. No, he wasn't doing that. He was looking at the crowd and cheering and waving. 00:12:19 Speaker 2: It's pretty clear when you watch the Subbruder film, he is not hunched over. The president is poised upward toward the crowd. 00:12:28 Speaker 8: When Governor Connolly testified to the Warren Commission. 00:12:31 Speaker 4: That's Dick Russell. 00:12:32 Speaker 8: He repeated multiple times that he was not hit but the same bullet that had hit JFK. 00:12:37 Speaker 1: As a matter of fact, if you look at the Zapruta film, you'll see that when Kennedy reacts to getting hit in the throat, Connelly then turns around to see what happened. Then moments later he gets hit. There's no way that it can be the same bullet that hit Kennedy. 00:12:52 Speaker 8: The surgeons who operated on Governor Connolly's wrist and chest wounds at Parkland also noted that they did not think all of his wounds had been made by the same bullet. 00:13:02 Speaker 2: It seems to me people are divided into two camps. Right There are people who believe the single bullet theory and people who think the single bullet theory is crazy. If you believe it, then you believe that one bullet caused all that damage. 00:13:14 Speaker 1: But it's not just about the path of

the bullet. To fully consider the single bullet theory, you have to ask yourself two questions. The first question, how did the bullet look when it was recovered? 00:13:26 Speaker 5: If God came to me and said, what I want you to get rid of every single piece of evidence, and I'll allow you to keep one thing, one thing only, that would be the bullet as it was recovered. 00:13:41 Speaker 1: It is nearly perfect condition. You can see a picture of that bullet in the National Archives. It's listed as a Warrant Commission Exhibit three ninety nine. A bullet that went in and out of both Kennedy and Connolly breaking Connolly's bones still look pristine, which brings us to the second question, where did they find the magic bullet? 00:14:06 Speaker 5: What happened later on was that a maintenance man, finding the er corridor blocked by a stretcher, bent down to move the stretcher and level Behold, there was a bullet. 00:14:19 Speaker 6: The bullets Christine. 00:14:21 Speaker 5: Nobody had seen this bullet, missed Y, everybody h Dallas, missed by everybody at Parkland before then. 00:14:28 Speaker 1: And so on. That was the official story. This pristine bullet just appeared on a stretcher in Parkland, a mystery that has confused researches for decades until in September twenty twenty three, there was a bombshell. A Secret Service agent named Paul Landis was on the running board of the car behind Kennedy. 00:14:53 Speaker 9: New bombshell claims tonight by one of the Secret Service agents was closest to John F. Kennedy when he was a sund Fascinated the. 00:15:00 Speaker 7: New version of what might have happened to the magic bullet. 00:15:05 Speaker 2: Former Secret Service agent Paul Landis, who was with the president that day, is opening up for the first time about what he witnessed that. 00:15:13 Speaker 9: According to The New York Times, could quote change the understanding of what happened in Dallas in nineteen sixty three. 00:15:21 Speaker 2: So Rob I saw this story in primetime on CNN, on NBC, it was in People Magazine, it was in Vanity Fair, it was in the New York Times. 00:15:30 Speaker 4: They all covered it. 00:15:31 Speaker 1: Right, and Paul Landis was kind enough to talk with us. Paul, from where the president was sitting, how far behind were you? 00:15:41 Speaker 6: Probably fifteen, no more than twenty eighty feet. 00:15:45 Speaker 1: Can you just describe what you saw at the moment that the president was hit. 00:15:53 Speaker 10: Shortly after the second shot I had heard the third shot, I saw the tribals had split wide ope on the midst of blood and fleshed and green matter flew into the air. I ducked to avoid getting splattered, and at that point we assumed under the underpass and. 00:16:15 Speaker 6: We were on our way to Party Memorial Hospital. 00:16:19 Speaker 10: I raced to the President's and Missus Kennedy was sitting on left center of the rear seat. There was a pool of blood next to Missus Kennedy. As soon as she stood up, right behind where she had been sitting, there was a pristine bullet. I picked this bullet up. It was not just formed, other than it had recognized striations on that it had been fired. And looking around, everybody was concentrating on the President. 00:16:54 Speaker 11: I didn't know what to do right away, but I was afraid this bullet an important piece of evidence and I didn't want to get lost. 00:17:04 Speaker 6: So I stepped it in my pocket and the raised in. 00:17:10 Speaker 10: Journey carrying the President's body and were right at trauma Room one. 00:17:15 Speaker 6: People were shoving, pushing, shouting. 00:17:18 Speaker 12: I happened to be pushed up right next to his feet, so I reached into my pocket, took it out and placed it by the president. 00:17:28 Speaker 6: Slashed true. 00:17:30 Speaker 1: So what does this tell us unless the single bullet theorists are going to claim that the bullet, after going through Kennedy and Connolly, was able to bounce back from where it allegedly exited Connolly's body in the front seat and somehow wound up in the backseat. It can't be the same bullet. What Landis is telling us finally makes sense. First, it explains how a bullet got onto a gurney at Parkland. He put it there, And second explains why the bullet was in near pristine condition. It never broke any bones on its path through two people. This completely destroys the single bullet theory. There is no magic bullet, which means that there had to have been at least a fourth shot, which means there had to have been another shooter. And we know conclusively that Oswald could not have fired four shots in that time span. This points directly at a conspiracy. 00:18:31 Speaker 2: So then what's weird to me as a journalist is this new testimony, Like he never mentioned this when he was questioned sixty years ago. 00:18:39 Speaker 1: He was never questioned sixty years ago. 00:18:42 Speaker 6: Nobody ever asked Warren. 00:18:44 Speaker 10: Commission never interviewed any of the other agents that were in the filow up car. 00:18:51 Speaker 1: Now let's talk about the number of shots fired. Remember, the Warren report said that three shots were fired. 00:18:56 Speaker 5: The manlier car Kano, a non automatic carbeam, which was the alleged murder weapon used by Oswald, was tested by top marksmen and it was determined that it took two point three seconds from shot to shot, without allowing time for reaiming and repositioning at a moving target. They determined that the first shot that hit Kennedy was followed by a second shot at one point five seconds. Well, how was that possible when it was determined that it took two point three seconds from shot to shot. 00:19:32 Speaker 1: As they say, do the math the single bullet. The timing of the shots were just getting started. Now, let's take a look at some of the testimonies from the Parkland doctors who tried to save Kennedy's life. 00:19:58 Speaker 2: According to the war report,

JFK's car raced from Dealey Plaza to Parkland Hospital and it arrived at twelve thirty five pm. 00:20:07 Speaker 1: Everyone at Parkland was on high alert getting ready for Kennedy's arrival. Among them was doctor Malcolm Perry, a trauma room physician. He worked feverishly trying to keep the President alive, but once the president was pronounced dead later that day, he talked to the press and he described the shot to Kennedy's neck as an entrance wound. 00:20:34 Speaker 2: The New York Times published the transcript from that press conference. It goes, reporter, where was the entrance wound, Doctor Perry? There was an entrance wound in the neck. Reporter, Which way was the bullet coming on the neck wound? Madam, doctor Perry. It appeared to be coming at him. Reporter, You think from the front in the throat. Dr Perry, the wound appeared to be an entrance wound in the front of the throat. Yes, that is correct. Well, so that's pretty clear. 00:21:07 Speaker 1: Yeah, one would think. But it's not the way doctor Perry's story ends. 00:21:14 Speaker 7: According to information we have just received from a recently discovered notebook kept by Martin Steadman, we've learned a little more about this story about doctor Perry. 00:21:27 Speaker 2: That's doctor Mantick again now talking about the journalist Martin Steadman. Steadman covered this story for decades. 00:21:35 Speaker 7: A week after the assassination, Steedman and a few colleagues went to visit doctor Perry at his home in Dallas, and they asked him well, doctor Perry, what do you really believe you think this was an entry wound? And he said, absolutely, it was an entry wound. And he told them what had happened the night of the autopsy and the morning after. He said he had gotten several calls from the autopsy room from the autopsy doctors who told him that if he didn't change his mind about the entry wound, he was probably going to lose his medical license. And so the journalist finished up by asking him, well, doctor Perry, after all of this, what do you really think he said it was an entry wound. 00:22:22 Speaker 4: So he says again, it's an entry wound. 00:22:25 Speaker 7: After a long, long paragraph of assumptions, he finally admitted to the Warrant Commission that it could have been a shot from the rear. 00:22:36 Speaker 2: But this is the guy who repeated three times that the bullet entered from the front of the throat. 00:22:42 Speaker 1: Right, why would he change his mind. 00:22:46 Speaker 8: In the nineteen seventies, that's Dick Russell. A Dallas Secret Service agent named Elmer Moore confessed that he quote had badgered doctor Perry into making a flat statement that there was no entrance wound in the net. He said he was operating under orders from Washington and the Secret Service. He said he regretted it, but that we all did everything we were told, or we'd got our heads cut off. 00:23:12 Speaker 1: Perry wasn't the only one that day who said that the shots that hit Kennedy were fired from the front. 00:23:18 Speaker 8: Statements from twenty one witnesses at Parkland Hospital that day reported seeing a massive head wound in the back of Kennedy's skull. 00:23:26 Speaker 6: The doctors at Parkland described a big wound that reached into the posterior part of the skull on the right side. 00:23:35 Speaker 8: The journalist Connie Chritzberg interviewed some of those doctors at Parkland in the immediate aftermath of that day. She got testimony from one of the neurosurgeons, doctor Kemp Clark, who also said that there was a huge wound in the right rear of the president's head. 00:23:50 Speaker 1: And then there's doctor McClellan, one of the surgeons that worked to save the president's life that day. 00:23:57 Speaker 8: Doctor McClellan testified to the Warren Commission that part of the cerebellum was blasted away. 00:24:03 Speaker 7: There was a big hole in the back of his head. 00:24:07 Speaker 4: That's doctor Mantick again. 00:24:09 Speaker 7: It was the size of an orange at least, if not even a little larger. And dozens, literally dozens of witnesses have said the same thing. 00:24:19 Speaker 1: So the shot that killed the president came from the front. 00:24:22 Speaker 7: It's totally consistent with a big hole in the back of the head. 00:24:26 Speaker 2: So were the doctor's testimonies just ignored by investigators and by the folks on the Warren commission. 00:24:33 Speaker 8: One of the doctors, Ron Jones, said that assassination investigators knew of reports of a second shooter but ignored them. A Warren commissioned investigator is said to have told him, quote, we have people who had testified that they saw somebody shoot the president from the front, but we don't want to interview them, and I don't want you saying anything about that either. 00:24:54 Speaker 1: And who was that investigator? 00:24:56 Speaker 2: Who arlinspector the creator of the single theory the same. 00:25:02 Speaker 1: Now, let's dig deeper into what happened during the autopsy at the Bethesda Naval Hospital. The Dallas doctors were unanimous. 00:25:11 Speaker 3: If you study their treatment notes that they wrote the day of the President's. 00:25:15 Speaker 4: Death, that's Doug Horn. 00:25:16 Speaker 3: It's that the president had a big blowout in the right rear of his head behind his ear the right rear portion of the head. 00:25:22 Speaker 1: Well, the problem is. 00:25:23 Speaker 3: That the autopsy photographs shows the back of the head to be intact. 00:25:33 Speaker 2: So doctor Horn, if the autopsy photographs in the archives don't show a gaping wound in the back of his head, what do they show. 00:25:41 Speaker 3: The autopsy photographs show the in back of the head to be intact, but that's contradicted by the treatment notes of the Parkland doctors and by their testimony in nineteen sixty four. So the government had a problem. If those photographs had made it into the official record, that would have

supported the observations of the park Glenn doctors because the right cerebellum would have been almost totally destroyed, most of it missing, much of the rear of the brain missing. 00:26:09 Speaker 7: When we look at the photographs of the back of his head at the archives, everything is totally intact. 00:26:16 Speaker 4: That's doctor Mantick again. 00:26:18 Speaker 7: It looks like the hair has just been freshly washed with hardly any blood anywhere, and yet the shirt is totally sulked with blood. How's that possible. A woman named Sandra K. Spencer processed the photos that were taken to the President's head during the autopsy. 00:26:36 Speaker 2: In November nineteen sixty three, she was a petty officer in charge of the White House Laboratory at NPC, the Naval Photographic Center. Here she is being interviewed by the ARRB in the nineteen nineties. 00:26:50 Speaker 10: Can you tell me whether those photographs well. 00:26:52 Speaker 2: The questioner says, can you tell me whether those photographs correspond with the photographs you developed in November of nineteen teen sixty three. 00:27:01 Speaker 5: She says, no, let's start with a conjecture whether the photographs that you developed. 00:27:08 Speaker 2: The questioner says, let's start with the conjecture as to whether the photographs that you developed and the photographs that you observe today could have been taken at different times. I would definitely, she says, I would definitely say they were taken at different times. 00:27:28 Speaker 7: Of course, the actual authentic autopsy photographs did show a big hole in the back of the head, and we have solo witnesses at the autopsy who saw those photographs and their testimonies in their record today. 00:27:42 Speaker 2: To be clear, what you're saying is that the photos that Sondra k Spencer developed are not the ones that are in the National Archives. 00:27:53 Speaker 3: I did a chain of custody study on the autopsy report while I was at the review board. And so the first thing I discovered is that doctor Humes had who sets a conclusions. 00:28:01 Speaker 2: That's what makes it all the more remarkable that he burned his first copy. 00:28:07 Speaker 3: Sometime after the FBI agents left. Humes made this new pronouncement because somebody had called doctor Perry at Parkland Hospital. 00:28:16 Speaker 4: How do we know this? 00:28:17 Speaker 3: Perry told Nurse Bell the following day. She said, you look like hell, what's wrong? And he said, well, I didn't get much sleep last night. And she said why and he said, well, they had me on the phone off and on all night long from Bethesden Naval Hospital. People were trying to get me to change my mind about the fact that the president was shot in the throat from the front. They wanted me to change my mind and say that was really an exit win in his throat. 00:28:44 Speaker 1: This was all happening the night of the assassination. 00:28:48 Speaker 3: Humes and Boswell met the next

morning on Saturday to review the first draft of the autopsy report. They met at ten o'clock in the morning. Humes worked on it all night at home and it was tighted Boswell. This under oath. Somebody that day rejected that report because what does Humes do on Sunday? He burns the first draft of the autopsy report and most of the original notes in his fireplace. 00:29:15 Speaker 4: Okay, So where does this leave us? Sum it up for me? 00:29:19 Speaker 1: Okay? The Warrant Commission manipulated the evidence to fit their single bullet theory in order to prove that Oswald was a lone gunman who shot the president from behind. Several witnesses, many of them medical professionals, who saw Kennedy's wounds at Parkland Hospital that day, contradicted this. They said that the president's wounds were a result of shots that came from the front. The autopsy report, conducted by doctors who had very little experience with gunshot wounds who had burned the original report, contained photographs that had no correlation to the wounds observed by the Parkland doctors or the photographer who initially took the pictures. All of this points to the shooters in locations other than just the sixth floor of the Texas school Book Depository, and that means whatever Lee Harvey Oswald was doing that day, he did not do it alone. 00:30:20 Speaker 2: You seem convinced that the forensics lead to the conclusion that there had to be more than one shooter. So then why is the official narrative still one of a lone gunman. 00:30:31 Speaker 1: You know, it's perfect that you use that word narrative because the evidence is going to show that Oswald was part of a narrative, a narrative that he was completely unaware of. And when you take a look at his journey into this narrative, the picture will become a lot clearer. 00:30:55 Speaker 4: Next time on Who Killed JFK. 00:30:58 Speaker 1: If you don't learn who Lee Harvey Oswell really was, there's no way you can understand what happened on that day. 00:31:07 Speaker 2: We'll pull back the curtain on Lee Harvey Oswald Well. 00:31:11 Speaker 5: I was under the impression that Lee has being trained for a specific operation. 00:31:17 Speaker 8: He was of interest to the highest counterintelligence officer in the CIA for four years before President Kennedy was killed. 00:31:28 Speaker 2: Who Killed JFK is hosted by Rob Reiner and me Solidad O'Brien, and our executive producers are Rob Reiner, Michelle Reiner, Matt George, Jason English, David Hoffman, and Me Solidad O'Brien. Our writer is David Hoffman, with research by Dick Russell. Our story editors are Rob Reiner and Julie Pinnero. Our senior producer is Julie Pinnerto. Our producers are Tristan Nash, Dick Russell, Michelle Goldfein and Amari Lead. Our editors are Tristan Nash, Julie Pinetto and Marcus de Lauro. Our project manager is Carol Klein. Our associate producer is emilse Kiros. Mixing, mastering and sound design by Ben la Julie and archival audio in this episode thanks to The Six Floor Museum and Dick Russell. Research and fact checking by Girl Friday and emilse Kiros. Business affairs by Henan Nadea and Jonathan Furman. Our consulting producer is Razanne Galliini. Recorded in part at CDM Studio and Fourth Street Recording Studio. Show logo by Lucy Quintanilla. Production assistants by Rocco Del Prior and Grace Barron. Special thanks to Johonig Rose Arse and Dan Storper. If you're enjoying the show, leave us a rating and review on your favorite podcast platform. Who Killed JFK is a production Solidad O'Brien Productions and iHeart podcasts, s,

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