ABOUT THIS EPISODE

Dan Schindler entered the greasy storefront of Bradshaw Auto Parts just outside of Salt Lake City. He was looking for a replacement part for a friend’s truck – but instead he found something that would haunt him for the rest of his life: the blood-soaked body of the store’s 76-year-old owner, Franklin Bradshaw. The murder investigation takes detectives from Salt Lake City to rural Texas and into Manhattan. Investigators discover a secret web of money and greed lurking right in the middle of his Mormon family!

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TRANSCRIPT

00:00:17welcome to watching idea until an on deck today were talking about a crime to remember season five episode eight entitled mother's little helper since nineteen seventy eight the outskirts of Salt Lake City and I really liked this episode I thought it was a good way to wind up
00:00:33the season was probably in the top two or three I think so a bit of course after my disapproval I guess you'd say of last week's episode move there's nowhere to go but up of what I thought was quite good the this was a really enjoyed it and
00:00:49had some twists to the plot it to throw anything having in nineteen seventy eight it wasn't quite as old which was kind of made it more interesting isn't only forty years old yeah right me we've done when it was eighty years old right Rylan ninety years old this
00:01:06in the nineteen twenties yep so yeah I think it's always easier in terms of research and just looking factual stuff this works better yeah so we started out a man walks into Frederick Bradshaw's auto parts warehouse and finds him dead behind the counter looks like of gunshot wounds
00:01:25and looks at the top of his head was blown off loaded at these got really gory that's one thing these are gross looking thanks yeah so whoever's doing there I guess you'd call it special effects is really doing a pretty good job although I don't think blood is
00:01:39that bright red just a little bit of a critique on that right their blood is always way read they want to make sure you know it's blood right but that looks like a like a fresh arterial spray right yeah which isn't the case right exactly so we have
00:01:55our little opening credits music and we hear that in nineteen seventy eight Salt Lake City was predominantly Mormon family oriented in the conservative community on the twenty third of July people are making preparations for pioneer day which celebrates the entry of the Mormon pioneers into Salt Lake City
00:02:15in the Salt Lake valley in eighteen forty seven this is a big deal big celebration now I have to admit I've never heard of that pioneer day yeah where you've heard of the Mormons arriving in Salt Lake City Utah well I figured they did at some point but
00:02:32I don't know anything about celebrating it and we learned all about that in the Broadway show book of Mormon alright we learned how they arrived there from I think New York these they went west so where did he find the tablets somewhere on the way okay alright so
00:02:53you don't really know much more about it than I do now but I do know that there is a pioneer day and it's a big deal for the Mormon faith yeah right so do they only celebrate that in Utah or do all Mormons celebrate that we would think
00:03:07all Mormons is celebrated okay there's a huge concentration of the menu talks of that be the big area for celebration right well yeah it looked like a big one they had old film strips or maybe they were made up but I think they looked genuinely old of parade
00:03:23and picnics but you know their film strips on the show can be quite convincing even when they're the actors I have to remind myself %HESITATION they just made these up for the show well the yeah we saw some in this particular episode that had the actors in it
00:03:38but it looks real it did look real yet he didn't know if you didn't recognize the actors from the re enactments you'd think they were real you would it's very true yeah solo a big day parades picnics all that's getting ready to go but meanwhile just blocks from
00:03:55the parade detective Joel Campbell is called to Bradshaw auto parts warehouse which is in kind of a rundown area of Salt Lake City there wasn't the nicest location nobody think we find out later that he had more than one store but this may have been the main warehouse
00:04:13this is the main warehouse although it didn't look that huge did it well note was honest but it was on a city street mia so in the store Franklin Bradshaw is dead he's seventy six years old and the owner of the store their cash registers empty and Brad
00:04:29shows wallet is empty so you're immediately thinking that it was a robbery and murder yes and it was in a way rape robbery might not have been the main motive but it was a robbery and murder that is true and they did the detectives determined that the murder
00:04:44probably occurred between seven o'clock in the morning at nine o'clock in the morning when the body was found so it looked like an early morning robbery Doug Steele is the manager of the store he's out in the back he's Franklin's right hand man he's known for thirty years
00:05:00and he can't think of any employees or customers who would want to kill frankly no his employees were loyal to him he says and he was very loyal to his own employees but then Doug brings up on his own Franklin bridge shows grandsons Tony in Carl as possible
00:05:17people to look at with this crime as possible suspects I guess they were well liked these two kids to Doug says it Carlin Tony had worked at the warehouse the past summer and during that time needed because quite a bit of trouble these two kids live with their
00:05:34mother whose Franklin's daughter one of his daughters in New York City detective Campbell as Doug if he would go with him to notify Franklin's wife Bernice of what'd happened yes the dog goes with the detective back to the a Bradshaw home Intel's Bernice that Franklin's dad and this
00:05:53actress does a pretty good job she seems upset she's crying would you think of her performance was different his quick convincing yeah but it wasn't your typical where a person acts in these shows when they're told someone died no that's that's true yeah she did keep little evidence
00:06:11that she was upset yeah so we have a little flash back now of how happy Bernice and Franklin were we see lots of dancing and smiling Bernice in Franklin met back in college in one of the things that brought them together was that they both love to dance
00:06:27so they started out square dancing together and they actually became very good at it and they still went out square dancing in their elderly years yeah they were quite active in the dance floor yes now the narrator had worked for Mister Bradshaw since she was in high school
00:06:43and she had seen all of his hard work paying off for him Franklin Bernice had three daughters Maryland lane and the youngest is Francis even though they weren't very involved in the church they were Mormons and Franklin was considered the Mormon ideal of what a father should be
00:07:01and everyone felt that he set a good example for his children Bernice tells the detective Franklin's routine because this guy is a creature of habit is very routine oriented yes at least according to the show right he would do a certain amount of push ups that he'd get
00:07:17the old mill started in and it was a pretty cool reenactment did sixty pushups well as his oatmeal was getting ready right many set down in a they needed another forty pushups every morning a hundred push ups pushups breakfast pushups yes and off to work then off to
00:07:36work right so he says he's a different kind of guy because he didn't have to be going to work every morning now he's mid seventies right here and had plenty of money we'll find out more than plenty of money yeah so Bernice heard his truck drive off that
00:07:52morning and she went back to sleep the the detectives are still at the house grants and Tony Sneider arrives Bernice is crying she goes up and hugs and the Tony doesn't show much of any reaction did he now they made him look very flat almost a little creepy
00:08:09weird blank faced you know to me looked kind of like a young Keanu Reeves but creepier an empty I'd remember Kitano in bill and Ted's excellent adventure vaguely the MAPI here that's at this kid looked like except he wasn't smiling he was dead eyed dead eyed clown what
00:08:27would just think men of call them dead I'd ask clown I think that was her sense right I know I'll stop making all my TV references so the detective takes Doug aside and asked him more about Tony and Carl because Doug seems to have a scoop on them
00:08:44right he does well he's he's the right hand man of the store yes so he he pretty much knows everything that's going on and he had a bad experience with them many he says the boys were pretty bad news they sometimes request sleeping on the job with a
00:09:00triple punch their time cards that seems like an easy way to get caught though yeah I don't think they were too worried about it because they're the bosses grandson here and it seems to me like Bernice protected them from their grandfather I think so they often would skip
00:09:15out of work to go see **** movies and the the reenactment that we're seeing the boys are looking through porn magazines and looking at the female employees in saying lewd remarks about the magazines but wouldn't you love to know what these **** magazines or I mean it could
00:09:31be cosmopolitan or Victoria's secret catalog with this group of employees because they're all very conservative there I mean it might not have been complete **** we don't know anything for sure it wouldn't have been hustler right when I'm thinking maybe playboy at the worst right so that's why
00:09:50I think maybe these people were a little bit too judgmental and I think detective Campbell kinda had that idea too like well you know boys will be boys this is in mature but I think it was more than that Doug tried to tell them it was a lot
00:10:05more than just being immature who was the actress who is the other big part or maybe bigger part that the Franklin used to hide money in weird places in the warehouse he'd have envelopes of cash here and there right well in life at the store was miserable so
00:10:24a lot of the staff were getting ready to quit because of the boys here they were very devout Mormons and upset with the boys behavior and the female employee who's narrating says that she was very shocked because Mister Bradshaw has had always treated her with a lot of
00:10:38respect so should expect this of his grandsons but then when the money starts coming up missing Doug goes to talk to Mister Bradshaw about it ray and Annie had pretty good evidence that the boys two grandsons were stealing from him yes Doug showed Franklin that the money kept
00:10:57disappearing Franklin thank them and then as dead to keep an eye on the boys he didn't fire them because it would have said Bernie's so Franklin did reprimand the boys kind of well you talk to them here shows like don't do it anymore right now you have a
00:11:15Bernese when let him fire them was the impression I got from the story year into the think that's true and Doug thought that Franklin was really embarrassed about the whole thing because he's an upstanding guy he didn't wanna have grandkids that would do this so Doug says it
00:11:30would pain Mr bread shot to admit it but Tony just wasn't a good kid Tony overhears Doug talking to the detective as he walks by though as he's leaving his grandma's house and they can to make him look threatening here they did this and looks at his face
00:11:46yeah he doesn't seem to care what any of them think of him nope so we see Tony outside putting a black package into the trash and it looks almost like out of bricks squared off package any looks suspicious and the detectives walk up behind him and ask if
00:12:02he's doing some house cleaning Tony answers and taking out the trash for my gramma so then he takes the trash bag with the package in it out of the trash can and walks off with that but detective Campbell says he didn't know Tony was staying in Salt Lake
00:12:17that summer uses what brings you back here because the time they stole the money was the previous summer who was in when they first talked with Doug at the store after finding Franklin's body by his idea was that the boys are back in New York yes they they
00:12:33hadn't been out yet right were you even if they were coming out as far as he knew the boys had worked the previous summer and now we're back in New York and that's where they were staying yeah but I mean would he necessarily know that because he's just
00:12:45an employee is not a member of the family although he's close here he's I don't know I think he would have been told is kind of the de facto manager of the store that grandsons are coming back to work well sure but what if they were just coming
00:13:00back to town and they weren't going to work there here with a Tony wasn't working there that's true Tony actually says he's there because he's going to be a pilot and his grandma Bernie's set him up with some flying lessons he reports that he actually flew over the
00:13:15warehouse and it seemed police cars there that morning he said his grandmother had gotten him up by nine AM and that he'd been out of the house by ten and after his flying lesson he had returned back to his grandmother's house Tony says he didn't go anywhere else
00:13:30that morning and he does his grandfather at all that morning the detective is about to ask Tony more you know he was about to ask about his relationship with his grandfather win Bernice comes out very protective she does she tells the detective that that will be enough for
00:13:47today we've had a terrible time of it as I'm sure you know and I'm sure you'll understand that we just want to be left alone so she ushers Tony into the house and tells the detective shoot go away yeah no more questions for today so they get back
00:14:02to the police station and they're trying to make sense of what had happened particularly who had murdered Franklin pressure to his people could probably tell from the reenactments and stuff they they are very interested in Tony they go over his timeline he said that he left his grandmother's
00:14:18house around ten o'clock and that statement had been supported by Britney's and they're also able to confront a Tony did have a flying lesson that morning so the murder did look like a simple robbery but the detectives wondered why more wasn't taken from the store so they get
00:14:35fully is working on checking into Franklin's life and background and they go through everything they can find working far into the night now I'm just thinking why more wasn't taken from the store will they don't really know because this was a guy who stashed packets of a lot
00:14:49of money in the store so nobody's going to bother stealing car parts not if they know where the packets are right if it's an inside job which I would imagine it would be because it doesn't look like the kind of place you want to rob necessary Lee and
00:15:03less you know that this guy is hoarding money here and any of the other thing is it was between seven in the morning and nine in the morning people are up in around here so you know can be Logan car parts back and forth from the store right
00:15:19right to stash in your car to make to get away well yeah because it looked like it was right out on a city street like I'm not I'm surprised nobody saw the killer go in right unless the killer knew a back way in which could be what happened
00:15:32could be yeah through the ultimately did find something unexpected and and this is the first kind of twisted things in the in the show so besides owning auto parts stores Franklin bridge shows one of the largest holders of federal oil and gas leases in the country is using
00:15:51the names of his wife and daughters to keep his networth down here is actually worth hundreds of millions of dollars in may have been the richest man in Utah that is incredible isn't yeah and you look at how he lived in in this re enactment of the crime
00:16:07yeah a modest home very modest is working in his auto parts store ended there isn't anything to suggest how absolutely wealthy this guy was no there isn't there really isn't no federal oil and gas leases that must mean that he is collecting money on a regular basis for
00:16:26the use of land yes yeah he's got that than people dreylinger doing whatever it is on his land pay him so that's a lot of money and obviously if it's hundreds of millions of dollars they realize that Franklin bridge I was kind of like Howard Hughes and that
00:16:43he was extremely wealthy but you wouldn't know it by looking at him because he's living a very simple life almost like a lower middle class life barely middle class now the learning curve for detective Campbell is getting pretty steep his wife and daughters had an enormous amount to
00:16:59gain from Franklin stuff obviously that's very true and you could see how they might resent him hoarding all this money and making them live you know in a less luxurious life than they might want they might wanna live better this into the planning a motive for any of
00:17:14them yes there does for a lot of people really although I guess he was a nice enough guy it doesn't seem like anyone would really be angry at him other than the fact that he's hoarding money rate and if you're a family member you're probably thinking spend a
00:17:28little of well yeah I mean especially the youngest Francis a single mom she probably thought that he should give her some more help here although we'll find out he was helping our it seems it doesn't seem like he was totally withholding from them but detective sit in their
00:17:43car outside of the bread shop house smoking and watching still had a smoking in nineteen seventy eight there was the bread truck houses nothing special definitely not what you would expect for such a wealthy man nodded off Franklin bridge has three daughters had arrived home to grieve with
00:18:00their mother they all had families of their own and they weren't seen around the neighborhood very often anymore Elaine was the middle sister of the three daughters she lived in California two detectives sit down to talk to her the light her cigarette and they ask if there are
00:18:15any tensions are disagreements within the family if there any grudges Blaine says there were some disagreements as there are in all families but nothing out of the ordinary she thinks they just complain about the stories they heard about Tony and his brother Carl from the auto parts store
00:18:32employees in alliances well you know they're good boys they just they've had a tough childhood that they did then Frankie comes and Mrs Francis yes she's Tony and curls mother Elaine introduces her to the detectives and says they're the ones who gonna find the father's killer now Francis
00:18:48is the youngest pressure daughter and she goes by the by Frankie when is the detectives goes out on the porch to talk to her and the first thing Frankie says to him is what my sister tell you that I'm a nut case that doesn't bode well for her
00:19:02had a good start was it not a good way to start out and the detective says well no she didn't say that but Elaine did say that your boys had a bit of a rough time growing up Frankie says so there were rough times as there are in
00:19:14any family Francis had been married twice toning Carl were from her first marriage in she had a daughter Amelia from her second marriage Carly shown in a flashback sitting at the table being playful and loving with his little sister Amelia there at the dinner table and Tony comes
00:19:32in and sits down and says is this supposed to be dinner looks like they're having Bologna sandwiches or something simple meal he looks very unhappy and kind of angry the boys look like they're in their teens and a million looks maybe eight seven or eight here is that
00:19:49there's a time age difference there's a definite age difference and and she's a preteen here so we get this ominous music and evil looks from Tony because trying to joke with Tony but it's not working right so Francis tells the detective that she was all alone raising these
00:20:06kids so things could get a bit tense so I guess her second marriage didn't work out either now she's on her own and the detective says what did that tension come from Tony because they're kind of focusing on Tony yeah they really do like Tony of Francis's attorney
00:20:21had some emotional problems and these problems caused her to send them away to boarding school Tony definitely had a temper and could get the best of them Francis said Karl is a teen who is staying home in New York for that summer and then the detectives told Francis
00:20:40that they were told the boys had stolen from Franklin bed Francis's if anyone has taken his money was their mother Bernice now she says her father was a tyrant about money he was living very modestly and is known as being extremely frugal his wife wanted to live better
00:20:58than that so Frances tells the detective that her mother snuck checks and cash from the business accounts and she thought she deserved it so we're we're opening up some more things here yes we are grandpa dad is a cheapskate mom gramma is skimming money from she knows the
00:21:17boys it's stolen money from the previous summer but didn't have anything really to say about that so we flash back to Bernice rating herself a check to cash she tells Francis to come with her to pick out a new refrigerator and she'll buy her new dress to well
00:21:33how about that above the fridge and get you in a stress Francis says this is always happening because her mom wanted to spend more money than the dad was really okay with I guess there is a bit of a I don't know if it was %HESITATION they were
00:21:48fighting about money but there was a bit of back and forth like this it seems to be yeah but it also seems like Francis is trying to draw a lot of attention to that saying you know look at my mother this first suspects which is kind of crazy
00:22:03it is and isn't yeah so now we've made to the girls in Maryland the oldest order comes in to talk with the detectives and it's pretty neat we have the real life elderly Maryland as one of the interviews on the show yeah I like the way she tells
00:22:19the story tells her side of it she did a very good job Maryland says she was living in New York when her father was killed and she told the detective right away that her mother would do anything to protect those voice she says did you hear what they
00:22:33did what they were like last summer yes everyone is aware of what the boys were doing seems like it right so she says they probably saw her father's small house in cheap clothing and made a judgment but in all actuality he was a brilliant businessman well I guess
00:22:49so media he was worth a ton of money but of course the detectives had already researched it and knew that he was very wealthy Maryland knew that he kept the total value of its holdings a secret from everyone and the detective said that must be why the boys
00:23:05felt like they were entitled to a little extra spending money but Maryland says this they actually sold a couple of hundred thousand dollars last summer this just wasn't petty thief know all this the huge amount of money yeah so I think you can figure out right then that
00:23:21the boys weren't spending this money that would make me think of their mother right off the bat yet wouldn't it what our boys going to do with a couple hundred thousand dollars now I mean I'm really thinking that Frankie Francis was instructing them to get the money yeah
00:23:35give it to her racial should share some with them yes but she's the one I needed money exactly right so Bernice interrupts to show our daughters the final draft of their father's obituary and detective Campbell isn't sure what to think well you think that she's monitoring the conversation
00:23:53and she's stepping in to keep things from getting too close to her or to the boys really voice yeah the narrator says that she had always admired how thrifty and simple Franklin live but she and the other employees were always struggling to make ends meet maybe he could
00:24:09have been more generous she wonders why he lived so simply but she remembers that her Sunday school lesson had taught her that the love of money is the root of all evil she wonders if maybe some of the pressure family had been poisoned by it so the the
00:24:26will is read in the state was left to Bernice Maryland Elaine and Francis now I don't know if that was an equal parts or what they didn't specify the four of them were the sole heirs to the estate that's right so in the following months the bridge as
00:24:41all started collecting on their inheritance the police kept close tabs on how the family was spending the money Elena family bought a new house and fixed it up Bernice bought an apartment in New York City now this was an apartment that belonged to Bernice but Francis was the
00:24:58principal residence there Frances donated a lot of money to the New York ballet and ended up on the board of directors so that makes me think Francis's out for status yes Maryland said that she and her husband did some traveling and they lived a comfortable life with her
00:25:14inheritance so detective Campbell had no direct leads on a suspect of course there were no eyewitnesses and they haven't found the murder weapon no kinda stuck right now says about eighteen months after the murder Wednesday so exited police got a call from Bethlehem Pennsylvania Tony grandson was a
00:25:35sophomore at Lehigh University in Bethlehem there is a girl he was interested in the girl had a boyfriend Tony became very destructive Tony began to get the idea that his college roommate had somehow through brain waves been trying to turn him into a woman suit definitely some mental
00:25:53illness symptoms here it sounds like he had kind of a meltdown it doesn't sound like the way it was portrayed that he had kind of a psychotic break yes he went over and his roommate on the head with a hammer eleven times and fractured his skull in seven
00:26:08places he had attempted to kill Liz roommate but he did survive some of the other students to grab him and haul them away this reinforces to police though that Tony was the one who killed his grandfather so Tony was taken to a state mental hospital and around town
00:26:25there were whispers about how troubled Tony had become what could have driven Tony so far off the path but the locals were relieved because they felt that Franklin's murder was off the street now they felt relieved that they knew who had killed Mr red China so then in
00:26:41October nineteen eighty a woman came into the twentieth precinct on the Upper West Side of New York this woman was Maryland bred shop and she handed over the gun that killed her father big surprise so would she doing with the gun right right she won't really say detectives
00:26:59interview her asking her what she did to her father but she says don't be ridiculous I didn't do anything to him she said the gun was given to her by somebody who asked to remain anonymous for now she said detective Campbell's phone number was with their so she
00:27:14handed that over and told the NYPD to call him because first she wants to know for sure if this is the gun that killed her father before she says anything else so police tested the gun and the test boats were sent to you talk to see if they
00:27:29matched the bullet taken from Franklin's body now they did match so it's the right gun so we have the murder weapon right now there's one other thing in the bag that the Grand Cayman turned out it was a small piece of paper with the Texas address on it
00:27:45it's kind of weird too with what's the connection there very strange and I wondered in Maryland no that was in there it kind of seems like she didn't right now as it looked like it was in a paper sack yeah well the the gun came in this paper
00:28:00sack in this paper with the address is just as balled up piece of paper inside the sack right separate from the guy that's what it seems like yeah so this is kind of a bread crumb helping them to get to where they need to go but the bridge
00:28:15has had no relatives or friends in Texas that anyone knew about detective Campbell went to the address in Midland Texas to check it out so in in the house is a twenty one year old guy named John Kavanagh he's speaking with the detectives at the house may ask
00:28:31if he knew a man named Franklin breccia uses no so they go through the other family names Bernice Maryland Francis Snyder John says he doesn't know Francis but he had a friend in school name Snyder but John recognizes the gun here and he says he sold it to
00:28:50Carl Snyder who has some connection so Campbell's pretty surprised he was %HESITATION focusing and Tony but it turns out that Carl had bought the gun that killed Franklin Brescia but was he the one who pulled the trigger then they're not sure they didn't think so Carl had an
00:29:06alibi in New York City for the day his grandfather was killed so the next thing detectives do is they go through all of the airplane records between New York Texas and Salt Lake for that time period they had to check them all by hand using paper receipts so
00:29:24this was laborious tedious work but then detective Michael George figured it out he found the trail there was a connection from New York through middle into Salt Lake City in the name of the tickets was Carl Gentilly they told us that Gentilly was Francis's first ex husbands last
00:29:42name so that had been the boys names before they were adopted by their stepfather so there were a total of five flights in the final flight on the day of the murder left Salt Lake City to New York at nine thirty five AM that morning over two years
00:29:58after the murder of police in Connecticut arrested Carl in his dorm room he was in college and he was the quiet one of the two brothers so they wonder how did he get mixed up in a plan to kill his grandfather but they were more surprises to come
00:30:13because Maryland came back to the NYPD and she brought a man with her this is the man who had brought her the guy so we have that connection we're not sure how this guy got the gun right right so this anonymous source was a person named Richard Barrons
00:30:30who's a former school teacher he told detectives that they had the man who shot Mr breccia but they didn't have the person who planned the shooting barons told police that he had known Tony and Carl since they were little kids he was a friend of their mother Frances
00:30:46for years she called him one night he went right over his kind of an uncle figure than he was known to both Francis and the kids uncle Dicky so one night she asked uncle Dicky for a favor she showed him the gun and asked him to keep it
00:31:03safe for her this to me is just so stupid yeah why wouldn't you just throw it in the river something right now way way given it to someone for safe keeping she lives right over the East River is that's where she tries to jump out later yeah she
00:31:17just wasn't thinking clearly question I don't know it's almost like she wanted to get caught both because there was no reason to hand them over to somebody none at all anyway he said that he wanted know what it was all about Francis said that Carl was in some
00:31:31trouble but she wouldn't tell me more about it but of course he wouldn't talk to Carl he cared about these kids and Carly answered his questions and he actually confessed that he had killed his Grampa Franklin Bradshaw uncle Dicky couldn't stay quiet about that anymore so he went
00:31:47to see Maryland when Maryland found out that Francis had given him the gun she convinced him to give the gun to her and that's when she took it to the police Xena that's another thing that's a little weird why didn't he confront Francis way would be to go
00:32:05to Maryland issue the the oldest child who's kind of the spokesperson for the family or something well maybe she's the reasonable one you know Francis wasn't going to go to the police that's for sure notions as can not hide it he didn't confront her anything not that they
00:32:21showed us right but you know he said this was awful what Carl did but he really felt like the only reason Carl did it was because Francis had forced him to do it so maybe he's not thinking very highly of Francis anymore that could be part of the
00:32:34reason certainly sounds like that yeah Sir Francis was always pretty hard up for money and always said that she would inherit a built a fortune when her father died she felt her life would be a lot better if he wasn't around anymore well that's the beginning of trouble
00:32:50when someone starts thinking that way them in March of nineteen eighty two police issued a warrant for her arrest in New York Francis was living in a very fancy apartment building called ten greasy square this is the building where Gloria Vanderbilt had lived police busted and they found
00:33:08her halfway out the window getting ready to jump into the East River familiar her little girl was right there so most of traumatized her for the rest of her life Francis's trial started in September nineteen eighty three and Carl actually testified after he was put in prison because
00:33:26after being imprisoned for a while he realized how much she had controlled him and got him to do that for her and he decided that the right thing to do was to tell the truth about the murder being Francis's idea also not to be too skeptical but I
00:33:42believe that he knew that he might get a lighter sentence if he would testify against his mother sure and I'll bet that that was conveyed to him I'm sure so he told the court that the idea started off as a joke but then Frances started making concrete plans
00:34:01when Carl and Tony were getting ready to go out and work for Franklin over the summer of nineteen seventy seven Francis gave them some black beauty amphetamines to slip into his oatmeal she said he had a weak heart and the drugs would give him a heart attack and
00:34:15he would die other boys tried to say no but her basic message to them was this isn't really killing or doing anything wrong because what they're Grampa had really belong to them they had a right to get it right but Tony says no and both boys back out
00:34:31so Francis told them well if you're not going to kill him you need to bring me some money cash jewelry stock certificates checks they brought back a lot of money but it still wasn't enough to satisfy her she wanted more she told the boys should kick them out
00:34:47of the house and disown them if they didn't kill Franklin she ended up kicking Tony out of the house in telling people that she didn't have a son named Tony and then choose telling Carl that here is a good boy yeah I giving him all this attention he'd
00:35:03seen it should under Tony and he knew that if he went against his mother bad things are gonna happen to him and she would love him anymore so he didn't know how to really take care of himself for fan from so if you can stand up to her
00:35:16no he couldn't and she just seems to have no mothering instinct or caring about her kids at all to use them like this it's terrible Anthony across the red room he wanted to please his mother and she told him she knew he would always do what was best
00:35:32for the family which would include killing his grandfather yes while so he actually did do it he went to the auto parts store his grandfather was surprised to see him they talked for a bit and Carl didn't think he could go through with it he couldn't look Franklin
00:35:49in the eyes but when he turned away Carl shot him twice Karl said in court that he really loved his grandpa and he didn't want to hurt him he did it for Francis then he said his mom needed to be stopped and that's why he testified it's unlikely
00:36:04that she would have been convicted if Carl hadn't testified so the narrator says my father always said that Mr bread show was an example of what was possible with thrift in industry but was he able to teach those lessons to his own daughter doesn't seem like it now
00:36:21Maryland says it Francis's never really satisfied with how much money she had because she always wanted more many gave her fulfillment and status yes this is kind of an empty soul she was so this is a family destroyed and all the money in the world wouldn't fix it
00:36:38now right money can only do so much with it and the family's been destroyed by this in our narrator says that most of us struggle to provide for our children but maybe having too much money can be a curse even though Franklin tried to keep the money and
00:36:54greed away from his family and live a simple life just knowing the money was there might have been all it took to make Francis sleazy and greedy and want the money so Maryland she tells us that her father was a good man a hard working man and he
00:37:09liked working any liked being with people and that's what she would like the story to leave us with with our memory of her father so Frances pressure was convicted of first degree murder and was sentenced to life in prison she did get released on parole and spent the
00:37:23rest of her life living off the fortune she had inherited she died in two thousand four at age sixty five so what else do we know about this case well we know it was a twisted and sordid tale of greed manipulation of betrayal but Carl Snyder's real name
00:37:39was mark Schroeder and he was convicted and sent to prison in nineteen eighty two it was a year later when he testified against his mother who was arrested in her luxury Upper East Side Manhattan apartment after police had actually forced their way past for French made that wasn't
00:37:55in the show but at the time fruit or was a member of the New York City Ballet board the bill is co founder Lincoln Kirstine testified at her trial she and her mother establish the ballets George Balanchine memorial scholarship in nineteen eighty three with the four hundred thousand
00:38:13dollar endowment in in nineteen ninety one interview Bernie spread shock said the tight fisted Franklin Bradshaw would die a second death if he saw I was giving his money away so it seems like she did kind of resent him a little bit for not spending money yeah Franklin
00:38:32turned out to be more than eccentric and he had an almost superhuman work ethic inflicted frugality he is worth at least twenty million used an empty beer carton as brief case western homemade meatloaf and drove a ready resting pickup truck he died with his stand ten dollar bill
00:38:50tucked into issue so he actually had some kind of mental illness seem to think so name frugal is one thing but this is a little bit crazy I mean you don't have to have a new car and all that but you wouldn't have a brief case really in
00:39:05the months before his murder he was really wary of %HESITATION Francis's harping from New York for more and more money and he was demanding that she get a job and she didn't like that so you threaten to cut her out of his will which seems like a big
00:39:18thing for the show to leave out is that could have been a big motive could have been in a she's afraid she's going to be cut out of the well I can see it would be much more urgent for her to have him die before he gets a
00:39:28chance to raise the well here so now his wife Bernice who often was slipping cast cash to Francis shared her daughter's longing for a better lifestyle that her husband could afford but wouldn't spend the money on so Francis's response to our fathers actions was to send her little
00:39:48sons were young sons mark and Larry to live with her parents in Utah and that was the summer of nineteen seventy seven the boys later confessed that they did laced Grampus oatmeal within fed it means that Francis had given them in hopes of him having a heart attack
00:40:03but it didn't work so that summer they did steal upward of two hundred thousand dollars in stocks and cash but there were other plots that were mentioned in the show there was one to set the warehouse on fire want to drop a toaster in bridge as bath and
00:40:20these are like cliche murders almost cartoonish shoes even built by a man who skipped town with five thousand dollars it should take a while so that's when a shrewd aboard down and sixteen year old marker younger son try and get him to do this murder for her testimony
00:40:38of both of their trials showed that he was impressionable although he was pretty devious himself and he was very devoted to his mother and us and golly like way during her trial who sent testified that she told him that he would have to you have no home to
00:40:53return to if you didn't kill his grandfather so when he did arrive in New York with the deed done mark for the first time in his life smothered by his mother's hugs and kisses said it is isn't it is that he did that to get his mother's love
00:41:07that's so sad he said if she wants you to do something it was really difficult to say no you just didn't say no to mom no you didn't well Tony did but then Tony a meltdown and I have to wonder if part of his meltdown was because his
00:41:21mother had disowned him you would think it would be tough witness and we don't know anything about Tony we know that mark did serve twelve years in prison and was paroled in nineteen ninety four and apparently has stayed out of trouble yes far as we know right visible
00:41:37in any more trouble I mean ninety four it's over twenty four years ago yes so hopefully he doesn't get in more trouble than it's a very sad story for Tony and mark yeah and for the little earlier remark where their real names I don't know why they changed
00:41:52their name Tony and Carl Larry and mark and then of the sister this step siblings whatever happened to her Melia yeah I don't know him I wonder who she went to live with hopefully she went to Bernice who seems like a fairly decent person Marilyn seemed quite decent
00:42:10Maryland since the most sane of the crew Anna we didn't really care much about Elaine get much into a landed we now so she's probably pretty normal okay a a good way to wrap up the season it was interesting episode yeah right well thank you everyone for listening
00:42:26to watching ID been fine yeah move here looking for another podcasts to listen to if you don't already listen to true crime Burry comes out every Tuesday that's the one I'd listen to that's a good recommendation from you alright goodbye everybody

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