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ABOUT THIS EPISODE

Hector Xavier Monsegur, a former Anonymous hacker notorious for operating under the online pseudonym “Sabu.” He was arrested in June of 2011 and agreed to cooperate with the FBI as they investigated the criminal activity of hackers operating within the Anonymous collective.
English
United States

TRANSCRIPT

00:00:00welcome to the vents in the bay podcast this is episode number two I'm vents and I'm continuing with the hacking theme from the first episode of the podcast which if you haven't listened to it I encourage you to check it out it was my recap of this year's
00:00:17def con twenty three hacking conference in Las Vegas and it's available to listen to on my blog advance the bay dot com and you can also subscribe to the podcast on iTunes and soundcloud and of course hit me up on Twitter it's Twitter dot com slash into the
00:00:36bay and now on with the show four years ago Hector Xavier mon Seger an anonymous computer hacker better known by the online suit in them sob %HESITATION did guilty in a U. S. District Court to twelve counts of computer hacking and other crimes a conviction that was kept
00:00:58secret from the public at the time many activists supporters and participants involved with anonymous were unaware that months prior Mr mon Seger A. K. A. sob little had agreed to cooperate with the FBI who were investigating the criminal activity of hackers operating within the anonymous collective most notably
00:01:21the arrest of a hacker known online as an RKO's and later announced as Mr Jeremy Hammond recently I had a chance to sit down with Mister mon Seger to learn more about his story I am excited to welcome my guest Mr Hector Xavier most singular it did I
00:01:41get that right the yeah I mean his French I don't speak French so I know you said how do you say I just a month Seger Monsignor like bought like Bob Seger yeah what would you describe yourself as at this point I mean technically I'm a X. black
00:01:57hat hacker slash activist former I'm going to put it all right so Hector tell can I call her Turkey sure when would you is %HESITATION you prefer get this one right tell me about your background me getting into computers was a direct result of my family going to
00:02:15prison having no one around me I was left alone in my apartment my grandmother was sick and dying and all I had left was a remnant of the fast life my own mind me computer right before she went to prison and that was a computer that I utilize
00:02:35that I used to to learn to break myself out of my confinement instead of being this around the Porter wreaking kids selling drugs a murdering people and if for seeing and doing whatever it is that kids from that time we're doing %HESITATION I instead opted to educate myself
00:02:51and try to understand myself better this is the early nineties when you get your hands on your first computer correct yeah the first first first official time I did touch computer was around ninety two but I think they have I did not get on the internet at the
00:03:04time %HESITATION it was just a machine with a printer on it what maybe two years later that the nine internet comes along like ninety four issue what sport that was compu serve and then after a copy service a wall and it all of a sudden you had a
00:03:20centralized system where people could communicate with each other directly as opposed to just simply logging in via modem and looking for boards to review no big BBS style so that's that was how exactly I got online which was to a well you got all those cities in the
00:03:36mail with the area five hundred for I remember they started out what was it like fifty hours of free a free internet yeah and it also has a hundred and I was like five hundred people like wow five hundred hours burned in one week yeah it was a
00:03:52bull dot experience until I started to see people discussing hacking you know because there was a point in a while history %HESITATION specially ninety five where there was a guy called the chronic and he created a program called able hell %HESITATION Gail hell ale house yeah so it
00:04:10was it was essentially a program that you know used or automated %HESITATION able functionality it also was a program that included like a credit card generator if you need to make fake able accounts it also came with like punters and account termination tools so that if someone's bottom
00:04:29you can terminate their account or you could kicking off line it's sports that interest in my mind well if people could do this if I could do this what else can I do and this is like it's right towards the beginning of my research when I started downloading
00:04:44the scenes and so reading all these articles on security attack meant %HESITATION attack methodologies and attack vectors one of the first unix atores I read discussed common passwords and common user names and how to break into Thailand X. but one of the first targets was a German where
00:05:04a site the most random thing in the world and the user name a pass was the same as a domain name so I basically got in and I left a really corny message with the letters and numbers and lead speak it was the most absurd thing I've ever
00:05:21had in the store anything I love the guy site there was little downloads and stuff that was my proof of concept that was my turning point for me Wes okay well this is doable now what else can I do with this around that time frame I started reading
00:05:35about the masters of deception the legion of doom the internet's first cyber war M. O. D. was a group of guys who were mixed it was a black as couple black guys there was Porter Rican guys in there and to me it was amazing because as far as
00:05:50I could tell the internet was mostly white every single person right into our white people and they were very obvious and blatant about the racism it's racism on the internet now is crazy a magic racism back when there was no authority to say Hey racism is bad we
00:06:07gonna Banja there was no banning for racism yeah I remember that period vaguely as kind of like the wild wild west was about to say that it was someone ask you a question which should be honest yeah did you or did you not ever hacked the Gibson no
00:06:28unfortunately not I believe you posted on Twitter earlier this year %HESITATION something about retiring the sub %HESITATION handle and you mentioned that it was a rain of from nineteen ninety five to twenty eleven in nineteen ninety five was that when you first appropriated sob %HESITATION originally my for
00:06:54my first hacker name if you want to say that my monitor my surname was actually Buddha the reason why I use bullets not because of you know the obvious because I'm a big guy but the nickname my family for me is blue the reason why they call me
00:07:09boost because this does the first whatever spoke %HESITATION when I was born I just sourcing bubble bull a grandmother gave me the moniker so when I went online and also a well and how to create an account and I had to create a whole identity %HESITATION sounds kind
00:07:26of weird I miss family name to really use I mean %HESITATION so I said well what about bullets book book okay I could I could go with that if anything Sabal was an extension of Buddha the only use that for like six months and I end up seeing
00:07:40Sabal the wrestler on TV on the masses squared child messes very guarded channel channel thirty two at two in the morning and he would have easy W. come out with samples jumping off of buildings and dress himself up and barb wire I thought they go to school so
00:07:56I went from border rather within both the border to Sabal I'm sitting here with the one Mr Hector Xavier mon Sigur months Seger yeah he is of course better known as sob %HESITATION okay so VHS you apparently hacked into a government website or something like that tell me
00:08:20about that what was that all about for about sixty years the United States Navy had acquired access to islands off the shores of Porto Rico by the name of the actors yeah because it's very small that's very beautiful view Google it right now you'd be surprised how gorgeous
00:08:35it looks the problem is is that Iran is not uninhabited people live there the problem is that the United States Navy were using %HESITATION depleted uranium shells on set island and so said shows started to spread some sort of radiation or cancer whatever happened because at some point
00:08:56you reach a point where a big portion of the islanders of Vieques all have cancer and they're suffering from physical ailments now once the people of the island started to protest this of using your brain %HESITATION depleted uranium should be reading shows an island with inhabitants United States
00:09:17Navy became aggressive during a protest a couple of %HESITATION navy man shot at some protesters in the protesters we went and stabbed up and cut a couple maybe men so became a really big conflict on the island somewhere on the summer I believe of the year two thousand
00:09:33when the protests were really big so big that even Revan al Sharpton was on the island protesting the United States Navy the thing is that this point is two thousand I've been already doing security research for several years already expanded my skill set ands I'm a hard core
00:09:52into unix and my target is running unix their infrastructure utilizes a whole bunch of CG I scripts their domains are hosted using %HESITATION the domain name as the username and in most cases this was it when you were easy but that's how I got it anyway but the
00:10:11point is that %HESITATION so many attack vectors associated with my target and my target was the biggest internet service provider poor record the time which was called P. R. star NPR star hosted order the Porto Rican government websites including the department of corrections ands a Marriott of government
00:10:32agencies so I had to salute to the I SP I can access to all of the government sites I started to spread of course the infrastructure getting access to more more government sites and then I left a message mind you I was still a kid at the time
00:10:50so the message are meeting now kind of barriers because it's full of typos and it just doesn't make any sense all of a sudden everyone knows who sap %HESITATION is at least in the in the importer Rico and around Porter Rico because all the newspapers people me documentaries
00:11:04what it's %HESITATION my name in that because I was such an insane incident it came right at the apex of all the protest there was even a those you in a situation where my grandmother's watching the news and she hears my name being said on you know Levi's
00:11:22young or whatever stations was watching you know she put on a chocolate does a sandals and she came to give a room that's why I have my little laboratory set up is me and put your computers she asked me to say Gordy our although we will you mean
00:11:39what what are call myself when he was actor the no no no %HESITATION blocking daughter you know what to the computer what do we sell us off myself Sabal were preceded that was a really funny crazy situation I was scared **** list because I thought you know beat
00:11:55me up there was that fear uncertainty and doubt of hearing your name on the TV and having the realization that something you did has some sort of impact of it if it went that far what I thought was a very lame is too but the basement turned out
00:12:10to be Porter Rico's first hacktivist operation closer grandmother's reaction when she passed Hershey but how does she realized she was that she was she was passed to know it's kind of difficult she was pissed yes she was more concerned that focus on the F. B. I. would knock
00:12:28on my door and rest she lost a son or daughter she one was a grandson in the process either after some time passed that she knows nobody came knocking on the doors and she was proud of me the help some people may may look at that like well
00:12:44you know that's that's not good parenting or whatever but she was more proud of the fact that I was not out with the street selling drugs or shooting people choose more happy with the fact that I'm learning in educating myself and participating in politics will once I saw
00:13:01the reaction I saw from the media changed my life why because a motivated me to continue active his operations and less than a year later I participated in the first United States versus Chinese cyber war which is operation China and that's a whole other topic okay let's fast
00:13:24forward to anonymous now because %HESITATION when did you first when where why how did you first learn about anonymous and decide to participate I started hearing about anonymous around two thousand eight two thousand nine that's when you know you have projects analogy in all these protests against the
00:13:46church of Scientology I thought that was really amazing I'm a big fan of working together as crowds making things happen %HESITATION I think is powerful the idea the idea is part of my participation really came after the death of my grandmother my grandmother passed away June seventh two
00:14:07thousand ten who could do some math here %HESITATION I was arrested you subsidize eleven so sweet a grandmother died I jump to directly into anonymous because I needed in the skate you have to remember that the same with my grandmother passed away my fiance left me and we
00:14:22had to work on getting a house my always a prison I became a foster parent to the the legal system %HESITATION I lost my job at the same time within that same month June two thousand ten one of the worst year of months of my life I needed
00:14:36an escape so I went back to one of my oldest escapes which was hacking so before anonymous I much have retired Sabal I retired from hacking %HESITATION and it just so happens that anonymous was in existence and they were doing something that I could see myself helping and
00:14:56especially since there are no leaders I started participate when an item is because I knew that I could just blend in bland were right out I could just do an operation just leave a move all my life unfortunately once I started hanging around a non ops and seeing
00:15:11the people that were involved in anonymous regarding to hacking I was stunned to see that there was no real hacking taken place we're talking about tool three hackers Max so I figured well I have a lot of skills perhaps out you know participate so when you came into
00:15:31anonymous you readopted the sob %HESITATION handle it %HESITATION it ended up that way but that's not how it's supposed to be initially I went in under a completely random new sudden of random nickname they had nothing to do anything and %HESITATION before she I was using us all
00:15:49%HESITATION show server and the using my cell server was Sabal so when %HESITATION the server rebooted or losses connection for a for exactly what happened it reconnected on this they have screen running with RC it reconnected and use it and use apple the username another I'm connected established
00:16:08said you know it is what it is yeah so at that point when you realize this mistake what did you think did you I didn't care you didn't care either like I'm just gonna keep to I'm just gonna keep going there's a reason why I said it was
00:16:22passed Pune overturned I just really an excuse my language I just didn't really give a **** I mean I was already lost internally I was stressed and depressed emotionally but I can not sold those emotions of all these two innocent girls whose children who I don't want them
00:16:38to be unhappy I would rather hold that content inside of me and do karaoke with them one night %HESITATION all day ands just get online at night and take all my frustrations someone else you bring up the two girls had to cross your mind that what you were
00:16:57deciding to jump back into my jeopardize your custody of the girls yeah but there's a problem with that and this did you know that the comment that's a common retort when people discuss the fact that I had these two children why would I hack in the first place
00:17:15well here's the problem I've been hacking since the nineties if the FBI is gonna come again be able to give me the good they're going to get me regardless I might be wrong but the point is there was no returning was gonna happen regardless you since you decided
00:17:28to re adopt the sap %HESITATION handled were you worried that folks from the past might recognize you and they did folks on the path to recognize me unfortunately many of them are FBI informants allows guys some F. network FBI informants and once he saw a sample of the
00:17:46guy that used to own them one after that oldest son is hacking with anonymous %HESITATION all way we do remember that guy's name is Hector X. savior thinking he might be from New York and are you might be Porter Rican and all those little bits of information just
00:18:02kept adding and adding and adding %HESITATION to something to a song and that's some of whom identity of course I was you know I was concerned about that but I was just so hurt inside that I was in a destructive mode I expected arrest eventually I expected it
00:18:19not because of operational security failures because people like the sap OPSEC fails but the complete ignore the fact that been hacking for close to two decades so my object was that bad I would be called back in ninety nine two thousand two thousand one two thousand to two
00:18:32thousand three we keep on the failures that I made were just destructive I had a destructive personality at that exact moment %HESITATION and I just really didn't care do I regret it whole it'll depends do I regret not taking care of my identity protected myself it all depends
00:18:51had I not been arrested where would I be today I I feel like sometimes we have to experience things we have to live through these hard times these hard moments really appreciate life but also to experience life you know whether or not I should allow myself to put
00:19:10myself in that situation it is what it is what I do that again definitely not so you decided to latch on to anonymous what's the first op that you participated in that you can remember technically the first I would be operation pay back I mean I I think
00:19:26that would be the first operation because %HESITATION nobody really knew who I was so I I love doing the main channel and watching all the people communicate back and forth they were talking about taking down PayPal MasterCard visa and I'm laughing because I know judging by the capability
00:19:41and judging by the tools I started the book there lake tool and they had a whole week tool and they have had a whole bunch of different variants I'm ordering these tools looking for vulnerabilities lo and behold I see that they're just flooding web servers man it is
00:19:57flooding a web server with a whole bunch of requests or somebody's tools were seen flooding which was by two thousand by two thousand eleven or the end of two thousand ten does he got since the invention of sin cookies and have the invention of so many different tools
00:20:14to combat these kind of despair did did not of service attacks I started to realize that there are people in the background of anonymous that have some sort of skill and expertise because I knew that you could have twenty thousand people in that channel there's no way they're
00:20:30gonna take down PayPal mascara visa with a bunch of people just simply flooding a web server you know even using that was banned with PayPal for example probably has hundreds of thousands of bouncers and says you know proxy servers to handle millions of requests per second seed seventy
00:20:50twenty thousand times whatever amount of seconds is going to any damage no not a rule but a botnet will a botnet will and that's exactly what happens I guessed in a predicted the disembodied anonymous with a button and I was correct now my task was to find the
00:21:09I spent a lot of time hacking the hackers that was kind of my well well but when you were getting into it that was kind of what it was right that yes it was all hackers on hacker it was hacked on hacker violence right quote unquote the guy
00:21:23late look at look at PH C. like all these groups at the regional anti said what were they doing they were hacking or the hackers they weren't hacking Amazon dot com no they were hacking their competition is when you have to competition you get to see what they're
00:21:38about you know you get to know who the identity is for whatever reason you know these days people are docks in individuals back in those days go find some wasn't documentation just keep a private you know just the fact that you have that over them is enough you'll
00:21:53need to expose it and get the guy rated or something or killed whatever and then of course research if you're hacking another hacker that just doing research has zero days you're walking away with a whole bunch of zero these utilizing arsenal so part of the reason why I
00:22:12started looking at who was behind the bar matter who's behind CERN operations it was I want to see who actually had skills and actually I I told this to the to Kayla sometime ago %HESITATION or Ryan %HESITATION I made a joke at my C. O. did you know
00:22:26that you were actually my target was unhappy role because out of all the people hanging around it's enough beds you were the only one who's actually hacking anything and we just became friends make it became friends we started when we should research together and this was a and
00:22:42you guys were doing this under the internet said sells the band yeah underneath the banner of it's an offense which was created by one of the other members can you tell me a little bit about that group so it's an offense was a group that was created by
00:22:57certain members of anonymous and LulzSec %HESITATION and the whole point of the group was to organize certain individuals with certain skills namely hacking or security research that was the whole point of that the reason why I was recruited to internet fads was because I went to pound hackers
00:23:15and I started asking if they were actually any hackers and here are there any hackers in the house %HESITATION who's doing research can I assist on board I need to escape right so they're just like whatever they don't even do not even fair to hack it is they're
00:23:32the idol so I start doing research on my own so what was going on at the time well June the signs he was hit with an indictment so so I wanted to do some research on the the Swedish government that and I started doing some problem with preliminary
00:23:47research opposed to the information into the channel with links and selamba hold the guy hits me up it says Hey would you like to be part of our hacker crew and I'm like sure you know it's it's crazy because I've already been to this you know ten years
00:24:06before I was hanging out with pac Weiser feed the beer I was hanging out with pure leaf your reason purely %HESITATION which people we know about does a fine so be it how do I join your club all you have to ask you have to answer three questions
00:24:21you have to get them right if not you cannot join it's enough it's that was my first indication that anonymous has some horrible Opry operation security because any low level I. T. FBI agent would have answered the questions a walk right into little little hacker party but %HESITATION
00:24:39is three questions were one what is a sequence action so I gave him an example what a simple suggestion as and sex me to what a sequence action is and then %HESITATION the second question was well what is and map so AT and map is in network mappers
00:24:54use for you know reconnaissance or targets getting information about what course open what services are one of those sports he got the idea is also very good at detecting %HESITATION you know the difference web firewalls in our files before I was in general a circus was the third
00:25:10question is it also okay you're you're in this is invite so Tom laughing hysterically my little brothers in next to me he's laughing is where we were just always laughing %HESITATION this is this is a twenty sting a world and might I needed to laugh closes one to
00:25:26supplemental you know the losses and people my family I was just like I am just laugh music drama social these guys about maybe could actually help them out so I would say it's enough as it is full of random people people to the night of the long there
00:25:41but very nice individuals you know people that I really really made friendships with like Joe pie ninety one was a very nice guy even though he doesn't talk to me no more was a very nice guy %HESITATION and then there's there's a whole bunch of other people there
00:25:54that says ended up becoming a forms on their own and you know we're part of leaking anonymous information IP addresses this is a bunch of frozen there from the internet feds I bill I I understand that you transition that's where you transitioned into law also because that is
00:26:12that right well there was a transitional period where we just weren't anything we just were hanging out on a random server discussing operations for a bit during at a time of turmoil within an ops IRC network and we were unable to actually work together or organize so eventually
00:26:35we ended up very very small group after filtering people out through channels and networks and we ended up with what people know as %HESITATION the most sick today and those individuals would be well I would be Sabal Kayla T. flow topiary poem sauce every unit who came up
00:26:59with the %HESITATION the title for the the group I have no idea I'm assuming is T. flown topiary I'm not really a lousy guy I'm not into %HESITATION all that funny stuff I'm just a hacker tell me about the H. B. Gary hack good H. B. Gary Hart
00:27:17was interesting because you have a security company who is trying to %HESITATION as we know now after reading all the emails and all the stuff like that the proceeded to hack we know that they were trying to drum up business for H. B. Gary and H. B. gag
00:27:35federal so the the hack itself was again H. B. Gary federal because their CEO %HESITATION went to the Financial Times and basically said Hey anonymous is essentially a bunch of lamers which you know what at this point I would have to agree and I have all the identities
00:27:52because they're bad operational security which I also agree to that the thing that bothered me is that if you're gathering this kind of formation I want to see what information you have want to see my name is on that list less was it no my name was on
00:28:08the list it all depends on what names of their how many innocent people were there regardless of how you think about me %HESITATION Garza what people think about me I will protect innocent people you know it it's it may sound you know kind of a hypocritical because I
00:28:25had victims in my crimes you know I did have victims people that I targeted that people are talking about copies are targeted that you know %HESITATION had victims involved and but in regards anonymous I was protective and I was very defensive anonymous of anonymous and I felt like
00:28:42well if this guy has a list of names and identities I want to see what these names identities are because we may be able to deter any possible rest of innocent people that are simply on an ops or simply using the nana's avatar you know because they're into
00:28:59the idea itself I jumped on it not to read the article I jumped on a start the research I found sequin junction in the H. B. Gary federal website I extracted the database between all of us we started cracking the Pat the MD five hashes I started to
00:29:17infiltrate the network using somebody Loggins I found that they were using the Google mail app %HESITATION a lot into their emails a start extracting emails or rather I passed that operation to somebody else to start extracting emails while I was so should you nearing the systems administrator of
00:29:37rootkit dot com which is the twist here is that rootkit dot com was a forum but they were also kind of like the hacking team of that time frame they had a lot of Mao where research on there and it was a lot of zero day stuff and
00:29:52now fortunately I destroyed most of it so I don't really know what was in there %HESITATION and what was lost and while reading the emails I also got to understand my target which was %HESITATION the individuals behind H. B. Gary and by all means I'll just tell you
00:30:09the story I'm not glorify my type whatsoever very remorseful for the crime they committed I'm glad I'm past that lifestyle but just continue with the story I started to understand my target and utilized my soldiers entering skills to not only infiltrate rootkit dot com but also infiltrates the
00:30:31support system and their internal servers and one thousand side of servers had access to all this source codes and all their projects in development ands I destroyed or did you have any sense that you were that you or your your colleagues at that time were becoming at %HESITATION
00:30:52the target at target by a law enforcement well it was only logical now we're messing with the government indirectly because H. B. Gary's a federal contract am I should be noticed after H. B. Gary we actually elevated our level of attacks by hacking into manta I can read
00:31:09you got all these other companies and then we got into the United States Senate and we just kept going and going it just it it just escalated who's a reverse avalanche we just went up in prove just collation and it can only be logical you cannot be it
00:31:24cannot simply ignore the fact that the you know the FBI is going to hunt you at this point that is just reality %HESITATION so of course naturally we all start to become paranoid and we start changing channels every day and our core group was I'm surprised we made
00:31:44it that far and we just got worse and worse and more destructive and more angry and that's why we attracted a certain gentleman Jeremy Hammond who was doing certain destructive packs himself so it was like it was kind of like fate that we all met %HESITATION unfortunately but
00:32:06%HESITATION you mentioned Jeremy Hammond near me Hammond just showed up out of left field after lost like started doing some big hacks %HESITATION and the way he approached me essentially was to be part of lasik he wanted to be part of Los and he wanted to do research
00:32:27with us %HESITATION unfortunately for him most of those guys in like a I mean it's kind of it's kind of weird how he you know his supporters now that say people have really just dislike them as individual because he was an anarchist %HESITATION any understand all these guys
00:32:43are not anarchists must have you seen somebody gentleman %HESITATION they're suburbanites there at that very well left the very worst a coffee shop revolutionaries they're not ready for physical altercations so for them to see Jeremy having appear it was %HESITATION threats and I think that's pretty much why
00:33:04low sick and uptight once again my guests is Mr Hector Xavier months occurred months eager to infer guard hack the F. B. I. will tell you that's the heck they got me a rest apparently they had the they did not care that we were hacking foreign governments as
00:33:22soon as we touched infer guard that's when we kinda stirred a Hornets nest and how long between between that hack and your arrest how how how soon was it after the fellas very soon it will put maybe weeks maybe days it didn't seem real %HESITATION it only seem
00:33:42real when I pick the kids up from school with their homework you know at seven to do that take the showers desert karaoke watched a movie that was that was cool but as soon have suffered a computer or as soon as I'm just outside that's when things just
00:33:57felt so off is a lot of odd things going on then all of a sudden I have known informants keep me in chats communicating and I don't care I'm not gonna sit there and judge you if you want to told me that that took away we will talk
00:34:12about what about the weather once about you know what's your favorite Chinese dish by all means but you know of course I notice as a tactic you know if you have someone like that talking to you this is a weird situation yeah let's fast forward to your arrest
00:34:27so that day I felt really an easy I did not sleep all night it just felt off everything's fell off I got I had a good instinct to that good feeling that's something was not right so I took the kids to school I came back home a suffocating
00:34:49my laptop sos's dare Chillin relaxin waited for the kids going to school came out of school and we went to rite aid and I bought them a whole bunch of stuff of both to make twenty dollars worth of carbon books and crayons because I had the feeling something
00:35:04was about to happen so I made a I made a church date where the girls would go and spend a couple hours a church for the night after night but you know just to go to church and hailed the kids or whatever does by the decision I made
00:35:18because this was a drop him off at church couple hours later the the fed to knock on my door and they say police police okay it alive eyes I just tell my brother to stay in a room and relax Missy was was open the door was knocking why
00:35:34the police and knock and why the cops knocking on my door at nine o'clock at night and open the door of course is the FBI and you know it's it's not to %HESITATION FBI agents like some media have said it was the %HESITATION actually you know at least
00:35:49a dozen FBI agents roaming the whole way they all look at me kind of like deer in headlights like they don't know what the hell they're looking at a they don't know this is like this is the Sabal this over to come out they asked me to come
00:36:02outside zero musical to only what you look like my door and so I asked the gentleman %HESITATION how can I help you he said well look we know your Sabal we know what you do and we know what you have done %HESITATION we also we have two kids
00:36:16in the house so the best bet is just for us to to have a chit chat inside and then %HESITATION we'll figure out what's the next move otherwise we're gonna core is yes we have the kids removed east east %HESITATION they kind of blew my mind because I
00:36:34expected to be arrested I expected to have to do some sort of consequences but then their tactic of using the children seems kind of extortion is that it was because it left with no choice but to actually listen to what they would try to talk about at first
00:36:51it was that struggle because okay so you want to talk to me I know it's gonna end up in an arrest now if I if I fight them right now if I say well no listened you know whatever %HESITATION I have to do with ACS coming in removing
00:37:06the children I love the kids in the house went outside he said look we know you are and what you do and we know that your your Sabal when you this in here that and you know you you're with anonymous and you know you guys are really out
00:37:21of control when your happens if for garden that's an FBI affiliate that's like slapping was in the face and I'm like okay well you know %HESITATION so what we'll be talking about it what what what is this right now well we're offering you a once in a lifetime
00:37:36opportunity to cooperate new cooperation agreement is something we'll discuss we'll figure it out you know did did conversations self was this I can't really even talk about a much not because I'm limited %HESITATION but more because I really just for got that is something that I've I've tried
00:37:57to block out of my brain because well they're just talking away at what they supposedly no I'm thinking about a way to save the children I'm thinking about a way to make sure that those two little girls we would have to know what was ever rest I can
00:38:13only assume that what they want out of me is the identities of my comrades right with us we usually see the movies that's what that's what we usually save of rack rat sissies writings friends always running somebody out so now sitting here like okay what can I offer
00:38:31the FBI is more valuable than the identity of some random cable to the mac anyway the first thing I offer them was control of Kuwait's biggest internet service provider have full control of the Kuwaiti embassy and I have full control of %HESITATION possibly even intercepting voice and just
00:38:52doing a whole bunch of things I probably could just shut down Kuwait internet for the day if I wanted to the second thing %HESITATION offered was a hack that I recently put my fingers on edge and it was something that they had not known about is that correct
00:39:08tips not if we are not gov %HESITATION command execution I just need a way to to trade something so that nobody could say four years later that I sneeze a body out which is kind of what exists what happened anyway so you're bargained with the FBI and how
00:39:27do they receive that we went to cooperation agreement where the first is that told the FBI said listen unfortunately you're not going to get much out of me because one I have no weapons on my computer two I never logged IRC chats so is no Irish he lives
00:39:40in my computer so you have that you have no evidence of anything at the before I can identify anybody because I don't have I have no idea who these people are they could be if they could be F. B. age themselves I have no idea was before I
00:39:56can identify to my astonishment to my surprise they seemed like they already knew this they knew that I probably had no valuable information to give regarding the identities of anybody there but I think this is more proof of concept of understanding anonymous acid to centralize movement and I'm
00:40:15sure this was like a case study for them on how to take down the decentralized movement you know because the FBI is very good at taking down structures like the black Panthers and the F. B. L. and then all these other groups are very good at stuff like
00:40:28that but I've I I don't think I've ever seen the F. B. I. tackle the centralized movement with no leadership and all hierarchic structure the problem was I thought myself that anonymous handle leadership role structure in the hierarchy and is probably very true that there is no leadership
00:40:45but his definition auction is Duffy hierarchy so I think the FBI was more interested in how to dismantle the %HESITATION that hierarchy in that structure I think that's that's probably what the gain the most out of this besides chat logs moves uses chat logs that there's never one
00:41:04instance and you could ask the journalists who have access to those logs %HESITATION I Jamie have discovery is no instance where I'm asking people for personally identifying information sometimes I come my blessings that things actually did work out for me because there was actually one thing that I
00:41:23was able to provide that did help the government and that was being Sabal and by being Sabal wills and was able to intercept over three hundred attacks against United States be at school private corporations like the Koch brothers law enforcement's security companies federal contractors is a lot of
00:41:45people got hacked within that eight month period that I have no idea of the when you that they were hacked where customers new acts and that would really also save my **** was that three of the tax where national security based %HESITATION industrial systems systems that if a
00:42:04hacker were to infiltrate and accidentally shot down you may not have water and you may have with spike and and the price of gas the next day you might have no electricity does national security level tax probably save me as much as just in general chat logs or
00:42:26the three hundred taxes selves and they never said like don't go after US targets today's give you any cab yachts like that there was never a situation where they controlled the flow of targets or they were annoyed when the CIA and FBI phone centers got %HESITATION attacks though
00:42:49not type of flooded when topiary posted the you know the low six phone number and people started pointing in hundreds of thousands at a time and then topiary we directed all the phone calls to the FBI call center they were pissed off about that it goes to show
00:43:04you that they only had so much control of the situation otherwise you would a soul me say Hey guys let's stop this this this you know noticed in this last do that to somebody else it wasn't like that why because if Sabal did that then obviously when was
00:43:21Sabal can you describe a little bit what your working relationship was with the FBI and the basically took my old laptop and they gave me an F. B. I. laptop and the F. B. I. laptop contains keyloggers ands program that took screen shots every second or never was
00:43:43and then the it also %HESITATION Abby and what else it did so for the first month that after my arrest I was obligated to show up to the office every single day and after that they just left me alone there were times when everyone spoke to the FBI
00:44:02for weeks days months it was only craze in the beginning and it got even crazier at the end at the end this one all all the **** hit the fan you know there was so much chaos at the end because the FBI I'm assuming she I can't speak
00:44:21for them but I'm assuming they were kind of forced into %HESITATION how things played out at the end I did not want anyone to blame me after my situation %HESITATION publicized or if god forbid any of them got arrested I didn't want that blame and it sucks I
00:44:38still get the blame even though I know I I I I know what I did and what I did not do from my point of view there was several other forms with them also %HESITATION as far as I know fifty percent of low sick were informants and one
00:44:51way or another does it mean that they're bad people doesn't mean that they're snitches the way people think but this is exactly what I was trying to avoid tell me about op cartel what was up with that well I'll tell is actually something that I think bear brown
00:45:09came up with I think so and I remember I remember at the time the only two people was me pushing it were you in bare brown you know what is because I agree with it I I I still agree with it and I thought it to people see
00:45:23that this is so much hypocrisy with an anonymous to the social justice warriors okay with us hacking the FBI be not okay with us in for treating a cartel you're okay now with hacking into ice is accounted emails you see would be the way ice is now they're
00:45:41doing exactly the same thing that I was interested in doing to the cartels there are %HESITATION justification for avoiding op cartel was well what if the what if the cartel startling bloggers and users of the internet my man they're already doing that they've already killed over million people
00:46:02in Mexico all these different cartels are warranted killing people regards of the on the internet if there for a reason if you like to speak Portuguese it doesn't matter you're getting killed so would you don't you think it would be actually also if we could infiltrate these cartels
00:46:19an actual treat information that we could expose and he'll bring pressure to them %HESITATION though I want to do it out of fear %HESITATION I thought I was crazy he has I mean these are the people that like **** can be had people and it was just like
00:46:36and ruthless should it come on it doing that well ice is now ice is actually blown up people you know the other car tell me can have people guess where they're at their Mexico the point is that there equal equal danger so bloggers in internet users but you're
00:46:54attacking one the United attacked the other why so at that point I'm I no longer feel like that I'm I'm not I'm I'm beyond the social justice thing ambience %HESITATION you know trying to be a super hero and using my hacking skills to to you know stop time
00:47:11whatever I'm done with that I don't care about it so I'll cartel now to me would be irrelevant if it were to be %HESITATION but at that time I thought was a good idea I guess we'll still was a good idea Barry brown and wheat equally took slack
00:47:23I think I I think actually better brought of more slack mainly because he's he's easier target to the to the bash people like to say especially the annoyance and I you know what I'm not in it I'm not going to bash all metal or I all followers of
00:47:36the idea of anonymous because a lot of really sweet people what there's a lot of good people out there and they're not hackers these are people that are actually activists in the street or they just mom and pops are just some random thirteen role okay they're cool people
00:47:49but there's others within the movement they control narrative and that narrative ebbs and flows depending on who's leading at the moment who has the more followers on Twitter %HESITATION anti sack yeah when did you first conceive of the idea of anti second format to suck before the creation
00:48:10read you suck or operation anti security which is the actual name of the of the project the ideas missing my head for awhile couple weeks before the creation of it he said we had a situation in Los act where we are we had kind of a meltdown he
00:48:26just thought he decided that he wanted to get away from the scene but in the process he won't he took the position of leadership of law sack and closed it even though law sector did lose a decentralized group there were no leaders you can just close well second
00:48:43it's just that wasn't situations we end up getting into argument about it and I explained to him you cannot kill something that you do not control but since you want to be like this is you this is what you want to do we live find so be it
00:48:56piece I left I spoke to a couple people and we put anti sex together operation at the security to shore in operation at the security we called it anti set those more of %HESITATION short I. respects original anti sack the original anti second operation %HESITATION anti security a
00:49:17tool completely different concepts in the case of the original at the sec the focus more on targeting security researchers who were participating in the full disclosure idea who were killing zero they want abilities by leaking exploits and verbally information the original anti said guys also then like somebody's
00:49:37people were participating in that movement sold this was a chance for them to just packed them silly operation at the security we wanted to kill bugs that we wanted to own security companies that we wanted to own governments and law enforcement the whole purpose was to prove the
00:49:56concept that there is no security and I think we did a very good job at it but in the process we also became extremists and you guys developed **** FBI Friday yeah whose idea was that that's a good question I don't remember how did the FBI feel about
00:50:16that if we had a really care as much as people think like the FF in the footer of guy Fridays he really didn't care that was kind of funny to them when they made the laws both video the YouTube video F. B. I. was rocking that all day
00:50:31in the office hello Whitey cracker came out with pound any secular rock in the two and one piece thirteen thirty three came out with anonymous guess what the F. B. eight is a rock in an office as well they were asked to meet its one not to miss
00:50:46as anonymous was to anonymous the only difference was they were both on billable for two sides of a coin are you gonna blame them for being so committed to anonymous every single FBI agent from that case have all gone to the private sector every single prosecutor which were
00:51:06three our private attorneys there's not one single person from that case from the New York office of the FBI that is still at the New York office of the FBI so you think they were really mad and forgive me I Fridays no the Stratford hack tell me abouts
00:51:31about Stratford and so does the story was strapped for is a lot of misconceptions that Savile had extra for people think so answers now dissemble give the Strafford hacked to Jamie haven't everyone says yes the truth is not %HESITATION who instigated stress for her that's a good question
00:51:55the actual hack took place by a German with the name pariah and a rider was part of a sub group of anonymous court cabin crew and how riot hung out with them and they are all of where the old aware that her I happen to strive for he
00:52:14stole a whole bunch of credit cards and so he sold a lot of them and used a lot of them and for him it was in a political hack for him it was a financial hack then he sent a message to one of the cabin crew members saying
00:52:29this I would love to passes to anti sack that person introduced me to her right yeah variety asked me specifically who's the one who can break into Strafford also one of the largest rapper also was gonna prior to be RKO's I mean introduce you and that's what happened
00:52:46as soon as anarchy has basically confirmed that yes he was inside of Stratfor %HESITATION and the FBI could clearly see that on my computer they went in cold Strafford immediately they cause Strafford taken the beginning of December %HESITATION whenever they knew the germ we have always inside of
00:53:04strive for distress for company almost mess that entire thing up because they wrote a press release on the from the website actually still find a press release on Strafford Akan he's got to dig for it but is there %HESITATION dated somewhere towards the middle of December stating that
00:53:21they were formed by the FBI that a hack is taking place weeks before by the time Strafford tried to kick during Hammond out yes open of back doors where he was able to still to face the main website and said the database and the emails that everything was
00:53:38already long gone and extracted in fact that database was extracted for germs germ we haven't even touched route for that database contained all the credit card details as for the emails you know that that was towards you know the middle or probably the end of December and even
00:53:58a wry himself %HESITATION he wrote a letter to the judge does proscar admitting that he was going to happen to strive for and even see the copy for our own pace but where he admits the crime in a miss how he did it what was the idea of
00:54:12it behind %HESITATION I'm going after all these foreign entities most of those servers muscles targets were web hosting servers using plastic and plus because the control panel used by individuals are hosting companies that allow you to host many many many domains and emails and so on on one
00:54:32single installation the conversation that he and I had regarding the foreign governments and all that which included government Brazil and government of Turkey and so on the reason why we're talking about all those different targets is because of one ability that Jeremy haven't had which really wasn't his
00:54:48it was given to him by pariah loses remote routes zero day and plastic it was only a certain version of plus you know the attacker would get access to the ministry to files with the XML files to the passwords and so on to the horrible plastic installations he
00:55:10had a old exploit they can only be using as a very specific version of plastic there was only a couple of United States government targets that were vulnerable and they were a plenty there were plenty more foreign governments servers they're running older versions of plastic that were horrible
00:55:29so it wasn't a situation where well you don't want this this hack into the you know the government of Belgium %HESITATION because we have to fight the or the fascist government over there no it was because Belgium had affordable installation of press there was no weird conspiracy was
00:55:50no FBI engagement or FBI directing or F. B. I. none of that it's kind of weird to have kind of I have to kind of defend the FBI here because I never happened there was no conspiracy tour which is basically there's a vulnerability that she was a horrible
00:56:02to it let's let's do it always go to Google sites Colin dot gov dot asterisk space in title plastic unless he was vulnerable seems so **** easy it is easy I'm vents in the bay and I am %HESITATION joined of course by Hector Xavier months Sigur also known
00:56:26as the blow out former black cat sob %HESITATION tell me about your communications with and RKO's A. K. A. term him and leading up to his his eventual arrest as far as I know this was for us for the remember they had no idea who he was they
00:56:46thought that he works you know he was to other people this is because they had nothing to work with they had no means of identification they had to rely on detective work and profiling this is why they got the first two guys won't you know I don't know
00:57:02the full story but I do know that they did have one specific individual who they really thought was an RK us and they really thought it was him so much that deal I'm sure there was lots of surveillance in a lots of %HESITATION following the guy around and
00:57:18they really thought it was him and so you know the time of the arrest when you know they go out of it %HESITATION basically get the guy or speak to him and if I don't hear us talking on on our CD are you still there very brown was
00:57:30talking to me and I think they stay starts with you know build a lot of frustrations because again there wasn't in a format that could say well Germany Hammond or anarchy as John Hammond of either really have that so rely on a detective work was very difficult because
00:57:48whatever information people were giving a bow and our chaos to the FBI and it was a lot of people did they give information about him it was just all over the board I do remember what they said all we got we have ever kiss other I I don't
00:58:00I don't think so but okay and as you know couple days later Mike Hey did you guys get RK us doesn't know those of one guy when March fifth came around the basically surprise me said Hey guess what we have a we know who he is and I
00:58:16said well at how are we think so me whatever I mean it is what it is then they're like okay well all you have to do and that's it after this is over light everything's done %HESITATION just get on jabber okay these were made on jabber yeah just
00:58:36get a job when you have Eric here says Amy up now we're talking we're chatting and communicating but I have a fear in my heart because this is exactly how I was rated you see the day that I was rated there was some guy on AOL instant messenger
00:58:56just talking to me and send me messages and he sent me internal able documentation Lobel hold near the fence on my door and lo behold I hear you know the feds calling somebody's asking about %HESITATION if Sabal still talking on a so in the back of my mind
00:59:14my demo hope is not just that kind of situation I'm just talking to the guy it turns out that he just stops writing back and once you start writing back and I start hearing will the cheering in the background like a bunch of %HESITATION %HESITATION a bunch of
00:59:29jocks you know cheering on the game or something something higher like giving each other high high five and laughing and I thought it was the break dancing was kind of funny because one of the FBI agents used to quick dance is a crip walk rather he should be
00:59:44I guess gain gain intelligence so you knew so much about the Crips that he would crip walk into office when was this so he's crip walking in celebration of apprehending and RKO's well I'm so I know I said I'm surprised he wasn't %HESITATION I've seen him crip walk
00:59:59before who's kind of allow is actually %HESITATION it's a C. F. Gator crippled but anyways this is beside the point the point is that there was a celebration there was only one face in the crowd not smiling that was my own and then the feds are like well
01:00:15okay you can go home now is his leave is over and the the thing that really confused me about this is that this case was never about an RK us this case was never about Germany have this case wasn't even about anonymous this case was about something much
01:00:32bigger which I cannot discuss but they needed a fall guy so I might case they got up to four guys they got me as the the %HESITATION the betrayer in him as a martyr it awaits sucks that this even happened it sucks that you know the media played
01:00:47it beautifully and as such a lot of these I. nines that are online that weren't even around four years ago that don't even know why and they speak authoritatively on the topic without even understanding how things work it'll a big question a big part people have is apparently
01:01:07I don't feel remorse now I show remorse to people they are imprisoned I do have remorse for him being a prison that sucks you know I was in prison house in the same facility is him I understand out I will not show remorse for so if you do
01:01:24not do if you were to say well why don't you show remorse for snitching on why did is this autumn hence there is no remorse you know with that being said I think that people need to really really research and think outside the box with this story because
01:01:40from the get go from March sixth two thousand twelve forward is been nothing but media sensationalism hype anonymous will not be anonymous the wait was in those years if it wasn't for media hype and sensationalism if you really want to be angry with somebody be angry with all
01:02:02those journalists and all those bloggers who hides me up to be a leader and hides anarchy has to be a super hacker the planet ands basically one a caller for several FBI agents unusually I felt like damn I I got a success here I save the kids from
01:02:22being taken away so I thought okay yeah right I think it is fine %HESITATION he'll just sucks everybody got good all you got a quote because the old me mistakes I guess our operations security was horrible whatever but then to go from March for for March fifth in
01:02:39all the time before where Sabal was awesome and everything's great March six it's a complete one eighty instantly collectively and no one is asking questions and that really made me feel nauseous because I dedicated a lot of time to this movement and these people but also I almost
01:03:05risk my life for a movement that so wishy washy in one sentence you could say Sabal was a betrayer and an **** but look what else anonymous day we had these be Gary and we had to the Tunisian government ands but wait Armindo samples hacks was silver this
01:03:23double standard it's definitely the toys but is definitely one a toll on me is definitely been a drain all my life because not only did I become the media for guy I also have to live with Sir in six stigmas and taboos where even nowadays when a security
01:03:43company wants to hire me they have to really think hard if they wants that kind of publicity just my very existence is a problem and I think that's the that's a shame post cooperating with the FBI you know they get they get their man you move on and
01:04:05now you're just kind of hanging out waiting for your %HESITATION sentencing right correct had we've my sentencing yeah and %HESITATION during this time %HESITATION apparently you you violated a part of your agreement by %HESITATION doing some sort of post online posts soon I was banned from the incident
01:04:27post March six but I was given special permission to look for jobs online so is it %HESITATION here online just don't talk to anonymous don't it's rock with them so okay first thing I did was I opened up a but Tom Brokaw and I gave it to two
01:04:43people and one of the people we just currently part of anonymous leaks the tumbler leak the third time %HESITATION link to somebody an anonymous was also an FBI informant he forwarded the tumblr link to the FBI someone a post on there were just me being you know just
01:05:02poetic and I like to write %HESITATION you know I like to just think outside the box of rice of the stupid write short stories right hi cruise olds so in this case are older towel to hacktivism the problem with that piece is that there was there was %HESITATION
01:05:17several different stories that upset the FBI there was a post I made discussing %HESITATION you know investigative operations %HESITATION and how to secure yourself secure your privacy %HESITATION by avoiding Sir in software that leak information to an investigator for example that information was a violation that's pretty much
01:05:41why we went to prison for my age I'm I'm I'm holding the press some down people hate me I'm avoiding the media's I'm over the television I'm all over the newspapers I'm like you know what I mean just try to talk to somebody neutral and I talked to
01:05:54one guy he's feeding all my communication to the FBI I'll make a tumblr like he was I'd give the you are the two people and one of those two people give it gives the tumble you are all to the FBI so I was destined for doom regardless of
01:06:07however I try this that's my own fault because what I should do this that was is go outside take a long walk every time I felt like I need to speak to somebody you end up going to prison for approximately seven months is that correct six seven have
01:06:20only months what was that like at first it was hard because again I was away from the girls I was away from the kids the whole point of me going to in this entire melodrama was to keep the children so that you know what the children went back
01:06:35with with my aunt and I want to MCC and have firstly brought me and it will mean is a cyber terrorist they had no idea what they'll do with me they they do not know if to bring me to ten south which is with the terms you is
01:06:49that or to put me in population or to keep me and you know and %HESITATION the process in the regional processing rooms which is like %HESITATION the special housing unit or whatever %HESITATION which is where you go when you first going to the building they put you there
01:07:02for like a week or day in and they'll ship you off of the population they keep pushing me between ten south and S. H. you a premier population for one day I wake up the next morning the house is being rated they call them turtles imprisons terminology turtles
01:07:18is basically the armed officers to come in before uniform for six wanting basically is what he called turtles ins in prison I got to turtle squad invading the **** house and I waking up like my first night in population and we go right there what the **** happened
01:07:36like what's going on and no is there for me they there for me because they have no idea what to do with me okay and apparently the people N. M. C. C. had no idea the difference between a cyber terrorist an actual terrorist so they don't know if
01:07:54I should be taken to the terrorists with sheep Muhammad and %HESITATION that the Somali pirates he was up there or leave me in a box or leave me a population of finally have to talk to my lawyers and my lawyers talk it's a B. O. P. and the
01:08:09DOJ there I will of disguise of regular **** do let's just put a population is there for white collar crime I cannot speak to my family I was banned all for their computers and phones for first two three months aspects will be much less because nobody most of
01:08:25the time I spent isolated angry at the world I was just really really really torn digitizer tuition well whatever I dealt with it as soon as I couldn't this is a guy on the puter I so using core links email system to email people are rather Adam and
01:08:42then I saw emailing the the part of education the BOP education department and I requested to become a teacher they gave me a point before the %HESITATION the testing a pass the test became a certified teacher within the BOP system and after that I just got myself occupied
01:08:57that what what kind of %HESITATION teaching redoing I was doing GT I was teaching GED classes and I was also teaching %HESITATION they had a very archaic old class colds %HESITATION introduction to computing essentials very basic the problem is it nobody's running those classes the classes this in
01:09:17the system but it'll teachers for that class they don't they're not paying what to teach so I volunteered to teach the class has pretty much what I did and lucky to have one good person in my life that sent me a lot of books I had about fifty
01:09:32books in my room and I was reading and trading and writing emails of people and but I had no support in there had no financials my family's poor and so I had to figure out ways to just maintain myself so I was I was actually right Chris is
01:09:47actually not bad prison is what you make it so you get out of prison yeah eventually after multiple delays you get sentence yeah %HESITATION sentence to what a year probation always said this is time served with a year of supervised release which is a new thing they're doing
01:10:09it's kind of like probation is kinda like this kind of not mom was like a hybrid probation parole I don't know it's weird are always changing the names of stuff so you you've served you served your operational period or whatever they want to call it you know now
01:10:23you're essentially free yeah you've come back to the internet your back on Twitter yep when you first came back and logged on first of all how did you how did you get the sob anonymous sub %HESITATION Twitter account back is kind of funny with all the hackers and
01:10:42all of the talented people in all the people out there that just want to get at me the over looks my expired domain had the book my expired domain they would have taken over the anonymous at bookcon I understand so that so that anonymous Sabal was was sitting
01:11:04there Jenny or the taking for years and anybody could have taken out of that a couple dollars and they go Daddy con the causes grabbed it and Senna of reset password to Twitter and that's it all in the past where I left on it was ridiculous I left
01:11:20a the easiest browser in the world for anyone to crack it can you say what it was now okay for I was in the name of your dog was it nobody was a word one single word and %HESITATION okay so now that you're back in your free and
01:11:38you can talk in your online and you're interacting with people what's been the reception to you coming back I think I gained five hundred followers a couple hours and it was constant drama and call me names and but then over the days events for answering people's questions and
01:11:56I've I tell people I'm a open book to ask me questions the honest truth is not as exciting as we've been sold this entire time somebody's stuff somebody's answers and not that exciting what's your future well right now I'm really focus on enjoying my life spending time my
01:12:11family a definite the menu spokeswoman for many years ago have come a long way I talk about educational out what causes security we don't know what you're talking about unless they're the guys doing the research you can't just educate yourself by reading a bunch of tweets you actually
01:12:27have to go out there make enough for I think what I really wanted to start educating and talking teaching all these young kids are into that are into Doxie and swatting and hacking lame **** sites endorsing people all day or tossing Sony endorsing whatever or that Vanity all
01:12:48that flame with a little respect you getting on IRC on Twitter doesn't mean nothing you could take those same skills and apply them to was something a cyber security industries off for the taking is a multi billion dollar industry you guys could take a skills in applied so
01:13:05that he could make some money to give your family and enjoy yourselves so that's really what I want to do I'll probably start my own security company I'll probably you know the work or no %HESITATION security researchers that's my passion you know I really want to put a
01:13:22lot of focus and emphasis on that because that's really what I'm good at thank you Hector zero months ago or a month see good good luck to you in the future and %HESITATION yeah that's it thanks a lot night thank you appreciate it thank you for listening to
01:13:36this episode of the vents in the bay podcast check out prior episodes and more at my blog which is Vince in the bay dot com of course there's only one in %HESITATION previous episode which is the def con episode and %HESITATION I highly encourage you to check that
01:13:54out you can also subscribe to the podcast on iTunes and soundcloud and hit me up on Twitter it's Twitter dot com slash events in the bay and remember until next time I love video

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