In this special live episode of Venture Stories, Erik Torenberg interviews two special guests about the present and future of crypto: Naval Ravikant (@naval), CEO and co-founder of AngelList, and Balaji Srinivasan (@balajis), CTO of Coinbase.
They start with an overview of the history of organizing societies and the role of centralized decision-makers from kings to democracies and why decentralization — where no one in particular is in charge but everybody follows the rules — has so much potential. They talk about how this could be disruptive to a wide swath of society today, including areas like money, electricity, social networks, storage, and more. They explain why decentralization will "fulfill the original promise of the internet."
Erik asks how each of them got into the space after having had success in other areas. It’s pointed out that it’s very rare that something comes along that is “technologically interesting, socially revolutionary, and that can also make you very rich.” They move on to a discussion of the history of money, the three key functions that money provides (store of value, unit of account and medium of exchange) and how good a job current cryptocurrencies are doing at fulfilling those three functions. They also point out that VCs typically didn’t buy Ether, but it has provided a 700X return in just a few years, which is better than VCs returned on Google or Facebook.
They move on to what they see in the future for crypto and how it will change society at large. They paint a picture of a world where there might be virtual “instant jobs” available on-demand in a feed akin to the feeds in current social networks and where the “99%” will be investors, as opposed to the present where only 1% of individuals are investors. There might also exist in the future “instant companies” that can be created as easily as someone can create an account on a social network today and that programmable smart contracts might spread opportunity far and wide without the need for armies of lawyers and judges.
They explain what it means when they say that blockchain will create “an open financial system” and what they mean when they say it will be to the current financial system what Linux was to Windows. They also talk about what kinds of facts would change their mind about blockchain, the role of identity and anonymity in a crypto world, and the concept of a “personal burn rate.”
Thanks for listening — if you like what you hear, please review us on your favorite podcast platform.
Check us out on the web at villageglobal.vc or get in touch with us on Twitter @villageglobal.
Venture Stories is brought to you by Village Global and is hosted by co-founder and partner, Erik Torenberg. Colin Campbell is our audio engineer and the show is produced by Brett Bolkowy.
United States


00:00:00Hey everybody are torn co founder partner village global network and this is a true story covering topics tech business with world leading experts please join me in welcoming of all Robert Khan Balaji Srinivasan and Eric torn Berg to inform welcome everybody tonight's program in form of the Commonwealth
00:00:34club blockchain today and tomorrow America Hornburg partner and cofounder village global talking daily and it is my pleasure to be speaking to some the biggest names in blockchain Nepal Robert Khan co founder chairman angel list and biology sort of awesome CTO Quinn base of all biology for the
00:00:51beginners out there how do you explain what is crypto currency what is blockchain why should people care what's fundamental about this in three minutes I think a human beings are network species we operate in groups we always working groups were like ants or bees in the sense that
00:01:07we have to cooperate to do anything interesting and that's kind of how to conquer the world but we are unique species and that we cooperate across genetic boundaries everyone in this group is pretty much on related to each other yet were brought here by common cause an interest
00:01:21and we're the only species that can do that and so we build these networks and these networks in history are have to be governed because networks of rules they have cheaters they have people contributing resources and you just have to figure out how to organize them and historically
00:01:34the way we organize these networks is we create a country in but a king or president or ruler in charge or with an elite or an aristocracy in charge or will have a K. %HESITATION priest in charge Oprah corporation in charge or will have a democracy where it's
00:01:48one person one vote so these are kind of the ways that we have organized networks right human history and invariably what was at the center of the network just as a very powerful kings become tyrants elites become aristocracies of corporations become monopolies democracies turn into mob rule sometimes
00:02:04so you have to worry about who's in charge of these networks that run our lives and these networks are very important electricity the network phone systems and network the United States the network monies in that work your favorite religion is a network so it's very important who run
00:02:18these networks and the last few hundred years we've created a new way to organize these networks and doesn't market places and with its credit markets that market stock markets car he markets markets are a way to organize a network with no single ruler in between even market mechanism
00:02:33doing the pricing in the allocation and will block chains are is are there a way to bring this network at this market based networks into all digital systems or to many kinds of digital systems it quite as the most famous one but there we say Hey money is
00:02:49too important to be controlled by any one central entity so we're gonna do instead is when I organize it through a blockchain based network and will use mathematics and rules to make sure that even the nobody's in charge nobody can cheat no can spend the same money twice
00:03:04no one can steal the money that already exists or if it's a network for running trust lists smart contracts financial contracts and %HESITATION distributed applications and we gonna make sure nobody can cheat even though there's nobody in charges network and we use a market based mechanisms to do
00:03:20it but unlike a stock market or a market for tomatoes we're not paying with cash whipping with resources so anybody can enter this network they can contribute a scarce resource and big coin that might be hashed power to secure the network in file coin that might be computing
00:03:37and and storage to provide more storage resource for people who want to use a network like in you Amazon web services you can have a self organizing network on a blockchain that controls electricity like today we have PGA any Pacific gas electric here controls will gets electricity but
00:03:53you agree the solar network where everybody puts a solo agreed on their house solar panel in their house and they pay into the neighborhood solar power they get paid back out with solar point and nobody's actually in charge and you still make sure nobody cheats you could do
00:04:05the same with the network that's allocating bandwidth so we don't need Verizon to do our cell phones we could all do it collectively you could even do a social network that's run this way so you don't have a single king like mark Zuckerberg Jack Dorsey being dragged from
00:04:18Congress for hearings as to how the running the network today so really what's happening is the internet is moving from this idea you know the internet was reasons for to be dim a democratizing force it was supposed to be %HESITATION everything's gonna be equal and even we're all
00:04:31gonna have websites and and nobody's gonna be in charge but now meet your new overlords Google Facebook Twitter Amazon these the people really in charge so what block chains do is they give us a system for taking networks that normally would have been run by individuals or kings
00:04:46of corporations and instead of making sure that the leader less and that to me is what's really exciting about them I did really describe how they worked but that's kind of more at Adam metal level and what's interesting is we're starting with the single hardest thing which is
00:04:59money big coin is trying to replace gold or maybe even money at some point and if you can do that then you can replace any network ruler if you can run the network from money without a single entity in charge when everyone's trying to break in a restaurant
00:05:14a steal from it than in theory you could make any network decentralized and that's what I think is interesting about Bachchan's yeah this great %HESITATION let me take on some of our thought no current that may be complementary so say that you wanted to have a database of
00:05:27all the money in the world our world your first requirement for that Davis would be that some random person can just update it and were themselves lots of money return we try to do that said database has to first be highly tamper resistant second very audible and third
00:05:43it needs to be in a sense decentralized said no one actor can just going to war themselves a million Bucks write ME start enumerating the technical requirements to build something like that you get something like the blockchain that underpins bit coin and what a crypto currency is is
00:05:58the need of money on a database like that and so once you've got a database second represent all the money in the world in a tamper resistant way such that no one party can for themselves lots of money well you can represent other things not just money but
00:06:10stocks and bonds and you know mortgages loans derivatives other kinds of things everything from the things that have an analog and Wall Street today you know like stocks and bonds things that don't like video game potions or may maybe you know a contract for hard drive space on
00:06:26someone else's computer thing that we wouldn't think to trade on Wall Street so once you can solve the problem of representing digital scarcity in a way that people can't corrupted and were themselves a lot of money you can solve a lot of other problems of coordination %HESITATION and
00:06:37and representation of financial instruments some curious to learn more about what you both into cryptograms in space it could across his face the first place because you both have had long story careers before cryptogram seats in volume among other things you democratized angel messing with with Angelus and
00:06:54apologies started at about the company council which sold for almost forty million dollars how do you explain your interest in blockchain as relates to the arc of your career you know my my first company council %HESITATION you know was doing Jim sequencing in the boat and the by
00:07:07text basin and testing for and dealing diseases and as part of that you know I encountered a lot of regulations and I start to realize why our love these rules are written seventy eighty ninety years ago are not as relevant in the modern world in the really holding
00:07:21back progress in essential to think okay well could that be applicable in other areas as well outsiders biotech and %HESITATION I mean sort of believe that was the case %HESITATION and we saw that with the you know the rise lived in new Bern Airbnb with taxes and hotels
00:07:35old rules are holding back innovation and is also the case in finance and so seeing the bickering was technologically interesting and also understanding that there is a market need from you know having encountered what regulations were in practice that's when the big things that kind of got me
00:07:50from genomics into into the sector yeah I didn't have any grand plan I just read a post and hacker news it was actually with that both Paul bom he was found about a coin later but he would oppose the Byzantine generals problem which is the underlying computer science
00:08:03problem that had to be solved if we could figure out how to have a network without a ruler in the center and we he wrote a post that recall gently explain how big coin solve that problem and once I read that and figured it out I couldn't think
00:08:15about anything else that's all I was doing was talking to my friends about and brainstorming about it and as I realize that this is a way out of centralized tech monopolies it's a way out of gatekeepers for money it's a way out of inflation and printing of money
00:08:28into it sound money and all these things I just couldn't think about anything else and you know it's very very rare that you find something this technologically interesting plus something that's socially really interesting plus it can make you rich and that combo is a really addictive well in
00:08:46twenty fifteen with this narrative emerge the %HESITATION the blockchain not big coin ever people that it's not about this money thing but the underlying technology really valuable for me at JP Morgan %HESITATION or whatever enterprise committee working forks that recently we've had so the opposites of resurgence of
00:09:00the queen maximum saying it's going not block chain %HESITATION some curious where if you look at that as a spectrum where your thoughts of alt on that spectrum in what do you say to both groups yeah so I think actually the full two by two exists right there's
00:09:14like anti bickering anti blockchain things the holdings camp right okay then there's pro watching the call no cleaners yet %HESITATION but they you know that that is right then there's pro blockchain in typical and that's like the banks you know boxing up in right then there is a
00:09:30pro big coin anti blockchain and that's like the climax was and then there's I think where I land up and a lot of I think investors in technology and space one of which is probably coin and production %HESITATION you know kind of let's say operate corner and %HESITATION
00:09:43the reason for that is I think you know you just have different solutions for different kinds of problems you know with the you know I think the internet is probably the best allergy Lisa one that would be accessible to lots of folks here which is that we went
00:09:55to me just sized movies and music and books and newspapers in pretty much every form of information and %HESITATION you know that's obviously valuable twenty years later in the same way with the blockchain we can definitely just has gold that super important we can also and we should
00:10:11digitize you know stocks and bonds and loans and mortgages and %HESITATION that's all that other stuff should get to show as well swim in the big coin and blushing camp yeah I I agree with that I think with big coin you're looking at sound money goals store of
00:10:24value and possibly a currency over time you've also got a set of currency that is in that big queen doesn't do today which are the private currencies like Z. cassia Minero in dash and a few others because bit coin is it says I think a secret service guy
00:10:36called in prosecution futures everything is trackable on the blockchain you know exactly where we transaction went so a blockchain ironically if it's controlled by government ends up like the the largest tool for to tell Terry as we can imagine because everything is trackable and then you've got where
00:10:50it's been a few others going which or the east torrent complete blotch installing complete means a programmable like computers and they can in theory do anything here can do although it would be more expensive and more slow so this is trust this computing and I think these are
00:11:03also very important and every different than what the queen is optimizing for if a bit coin tries to be more expressive more programmable more like a computer if it actually becomes more taxable more hackable a doesn't want that so the other side you have block chains that are
00:11:17like if Syria which are touring complete computable they're more a taxable they're more vulnerable they're not trying to be some money but there %HESITATION the infrastructure on which you can build an entire %HESITATION parallels shuttle financial system alongside Wall Street and I think what made very well happen
00:11:33in this space is five years from now we may see that you may have a whole series of applications on top of the theory I'm or the next Turing complete blockchain where you can do loans and you can do derivatives and you can place all kinds of bats
00:11:47and sort of this global financial market but you can do things that you just can't even do on Wall Street because Wall Street not that programmable you want to create a new financial instrument you gotta go to Goldman Sachs is let lawyers get deployed on accountants a lot
00:11:58of paper but here a fifteen year old kid can hack something together and then some grand months a bubbly can be betting on that security contract now that lets the the law the site again but if you're medically possible ends because in the internet if it's programmable and
00:12:11theoretically possible it'll happen so I would be surprised the five years from now you have bankers or working at Goldman who basically go to their boss and say look that custom dread of our security a bat that we want to do I can do it but I can
00:12:24only do it on the blockchain I can only do it on this infrastructure that has been built parallels have to convert out of US dollars into Assyria more auger whatever the heck tokens I need to use do that trade and come back so yeah I am I am
00:12:37a crypto maximalist not a not miss the epic Quinn excellence when looking back at our history to understand future some people like to look at the history of money to find IT worker to will go they look at how monies emerged over time and implications of that are
00:12:50that winners %HESITATION monies winner take all Lindy effects such such what other people look at the history of the internet say be a software is in the world software tends to re write the things which are runs into and implications there are that the multiple winners and you
00:13:02want to be the first search engine a social network it'd have to be the last so as we look forward to future which history do you think is more predictive power history of money is through the internet so I think actually I would say that money's history is
00:13:15actually totally winner take all because you do have the dollar and the renminbi and the pound and the euro and and the ruble and what have you so it's kind of like I I would suddenly a picture to the I think I think both histories are certainly relevant
00:13:28I think most people are more familiar with the history of the internet and you can point that paralleled okay we just has everything with information numbers chosen everything that split scarcity into finance and that's a very obvious thing tingle far fewer people are familiar with the history of
00:13:41money but but with that said sometimes you know history doesn't repeat better rhymes it can it can also lead you wrong if you're too overly levered on historical parallel it can tell you it's going to happen like this it happens like that right so you sure sure version
00:13:54is I think I think both are relevant but I would use them only as guides and not as like hard forecasted must happen this way you know yeah I I agree with that nobody actually knows what's gonna happen here and how exactly will play out it with when
00:14:06you talk about just money it's important to break it down says components we use money as a store of value so %HESITATION you know hopefully that doesn't inflate away tomorrow if you're in Venezuela Argentina that may not be the case we use it as a medium of exchange
00:14:19I give you money and you accepted for bread or horses or cars or whatever I'm getting from you or users unit of account that thing cost twelve dollars and that one cost fourteen dollars store of value does have a network of fact but it's not that powerful like
00:14:34for example we do use gold as a store of value we use back quite a store of value we use real estate as a store of value look Chinese buying apartments in Vancouver we use oil as a store of value we use the US dollars a store of
00:14:46value media of exchange has a much stronger network effect because now the money's in flow who accepts what who doesn't take what and the unit of account is the ultimate network effect because you only have one yet yeah I'm not quoting you something in dollars and our end
00:14:58be you just care about dollars so the network of fact actually can be influenced by which one of these properties of money you end up adopting and the truth is today ninety nine point nine percent people in the world aren't using crypto so it's still a jump ball
00:15:12I think one of the mistakes that were made in terms not understand history money is one Q. confusing conflating payments and medium of exchange yeah and to saying Hey I'm never gonna be able to buy your I'm not able to buy Starbucks decline dusts must be the use
00:15:25case for big women not the Starbucks crypto is really good at micro micro transactions where if let's say that you know today we on the internet we have done our service and we've spam attacks and that's because band with is too cheap to meter but it's not people
00:15:39abuse it so what if my I have a server that says Hey you can request a web page from me but you got to pay me a true in the sense that can only be done in crypto on the flip side in them students from biology but it's
00:15:50also good as a Spanish galleon if I want to send a billion dollars to somebody and I wanna make sure that that I'm sticky thing there's no sticky fingers from real there's in between I would send it through crypto so it's really good for the micro transactions the
00:16:02macro transactions it may not be that good for the human sites transactions like going to Starbucks and buy a coffee right and even if it isn't good for that because they'll be worth trillions of dollars absolutely if it if it just for play it backwards just replaces gold
00:16:15you know gold is what seven trillion dollars and gold is not easily divisible it's not easily verifiable I can't store it in my pocket or my brain I can't send it across the internet us actually has quite a few advantages over gold but unlike gold it is trackable
00:16:30unlike gold is easier to hack remotely on the internet so it's got other issues or the S. and Goldman has the Lindy effect as %HESITATION as in the scene tell us it's been around for a long time which bit coin is only a decade old so we still
00:16:43have to see you know knew what it has been fully tested we have not seen sovereign nation states attack but Quinn with all of the resources that I feel like I am showing that points I should specify that is not investment advice but again notices investment advice if
00:16:57you were an investor in crypto if you would a lost twenty percent your money in the last twenty four hours so you know one thing just a compliment that is I think with the adjusting the internet out here for a second voice over IP was an application of
00:17:10the internet but not the application and in fact is probably one of the ones which has arguably one the least improvements over the pre internet Tesco because we have a working phone lines and you could call somebody up and so on right now to see that Google hang
00:17:23out forever isn't useful but it's like a nice to have future not a must have whereas things like search for a bookstore that had an infinite number of books were a true hundred extra thousand acts of the status quo I think one of the reasons that digital gold
00:17:36is really important is didn't really have competitors in terms of where the financial system is right now because most people are not carrying around a brick a gold it's like truly something that was a ten or hundred X. improvement over the status quo versus paying at Starbucks there's
00:17:51like fifteen different options to that there's a master card there's your apple pay their share square terminal or whatever answers reasonable options %HESITATION and so I think eventually crypto bill against that Nish that's like when the very last things like voice as opposed to when the first things
00:18:03on here more about what applications outside of money you're most excited about with the crypto in you we focus on often tend to one use cases something becomes much cheaper like email personnel mail %HESITATION ventures as two zero one applications that that it unlock fundamentally new capability like
00:18:18internet with wikipedia or you know phones and cameras and IT of snapchatters you'd keep yes now you have %HESITATION birth what is your one to one applications gonna be for up to some of these are less sexy less fun but they're very infrastructure related routers metering band with
00:18:31metering disk space and compute industry to storage in computational grids you can imagine that ten years from now the question of where do you host your website will be a nonsense question because it does say on the internet right I just write the piece of code a drop
00:18:46a fraction of a crypto coin into it and then it goes and buys a file storage and buys a compute power buys all the pieces that it needs to instantiate itself and serve whatever customers shop on the web so I think that's one %HESITATION interesting use case this
00:18:59micro micro transactions occurring money can't address on the flip side I think it's %HESITATION it it there is the sound money thing which is played up but it's the rich this the revenge of the Swiss bank account so is the ultimate safe haven if the Jews have to
00:19:11leave Vienna today they're not carrying gold out you know they're carrying big point out so I think that's another example a third one would be I think %HESITATION setting up large distributed networks that are kind of bootstrap themselves and I mentioned solar power earlier this one band with
00:19:25would be another so replace Verizon with the district agreed of wifi access points you could even a self driving cars if your future we've a lot of self driving cars driving around and they're communicating with each other you could see them paying each other for rights of way
00:19:38I want that stop light green right now instead of red and you bid against each other little the congestion pricing on the fly very efficient with these are not super sexy and user applications but I think these are ones are uniquely enable a cryptocurrency and then finally there's
00:19:52a set of things that maybe we want to see exist but the governments of the world for whatever reason to allow them but are legitimate applications but a lot of economists would tell you that prediction markets working across the board would be incredibly useful for society yet because
00:20:06of the get caught up in sweepstakes laws in sports betting rules and this Hodge podge of state laws in the U. S. international laws you don't really have working prediction markets they can't get the liquidation of the can't get the liquid of you to make accurate predictions and
00:20:18if we could have good prediction markets okay start posting them questions like what is the best way to address climate change that a or be in the prediction markets can opt in that actually not good for that one but there's others it's hard to test that one who
00:20:30sows trying explain big point my mom I should have %HESITATION use the Jews Vienna right above that I was explaining to the tribal nature of it explaining big coin purse that the ram as explained bit coin purse the going cash like mom there's a civil war for playing
00:20:46around everyone verse ripple and all these various sub battles in the Disney here as it is all to say that that is not just a technology common it's a social religion death and the social phenomena the religion is perhaps just as interesting and fundamental as technology so how
00:21:03do you make sense of botching as social like why captured parts mind connecting to that one I think the thing is that you know when I first described as some of the watch is a kind of database right and it is that but it's not just about the
00:21:15reads and writes to this you know digital data structure as or even more important are the reach our rights to all of the brains around the world to make those people value that you know entry in the database as money if you think about it everybody's had a
00:21:29right to your brain many times since your kid to value a green piece of paper has valuable wears a blue one would not be right and you to kind of take that for granted why is this money and why is this not well the bean rights of software
00:21:42to all of our brains to do that right so as much as this is something which is writing softer it's also writing intellectuals offered people's brains and the reason that this tribalism happens is because that early group of folks who had those rights their brains to say okay
00:21:58I can value entries in this database is being money well there's a huge incentive in flipping those folks to one side or the or the other because they're already you know over the hump of thinking of the stuff is money right so that's a good customer acquisition strategy
00:22:13this is one very meta way of thinking about it these folks have already gone into watching space and a huge part of it is making folks values money so different tribes compete for them that's when I think about it it is a form of politics because if you
00:22:27zoom back these are ways of governing networks one big way we govern networks is countries right so mommy talking governance you're talking about who's in charge how do you run it do the developers run it do the so called miners are providing the resources to run it to
00:22:41the users run it through the exchanges that are in the center run it and so they just this is like a big tribal fight over the whole thing and unlike in a normal country would try to fight unless the Democrats Republicans are you know if you've been on
00:22:52Twitter is a war on everyone's fighting but they're fighting but they can't revolution is on think of all right we're not gonna take guns and go in the streets and split the country in half but in crypto land it's so easy to fork you basically just take the
00:23:05source code you create another copy and now everybody who wants to be read because over here a what has blue goes over here and now that she's not the shooting war between the two different factions so that just happens in crypto all the time so the downside is
00:23:17the moment of digital governance revolution is really easy splintering factionalism tribalism is really easy and so these wars come very much out in the open but on the other hand it's also sort of a good thing because everything is being tried as opposed to like in the US
00:23:33we elect a president for for eight years we had one direction for a little while that we tack back we had the other direction back here we have to keep choosing in crypto let you don't have to choose everybody can fork off at any time whatever they want
00:23:45and you know if we could do that the real world that would be kind of an interesting experiment we kind of already do you four to San Francisco or you go live in Texas right no no one specific in mind image image religion have that aspect crip does
00:23:58religion unpack that a little bit and I mean who where the where the priests who were the deacons were the clergy like for us I'll change that now is a little bit that the priest the religious fanatics the Jesuits you know the the Spanish Inquisition here are the
00:24:12crypto people and normally they they would have allied with the competed with the kings but here the little the sacrifice and the kings they're saying to the altar of crypto we get rid of the leaders so crip does just another part of the grand train line of the
00:24:27internet which is getting rid of the gate keepers so the internet was supposed to get rid of all the gatekeepers to keep going back to the sorry to keep harping on it but it's a peer to peer network underneath it was supposed to get rid of all the
00:24:37gatekeepers but now who are new gatekeepers I can is the big DNS gatekeeper Google is a search gatekeeper Twitter and Facebook is a social network gatekeepers and as far as Silicon Valley is concerned %HESITATION yeah the internet revolution was great we've got rid of the old gate keepers
00:24:52and now we're than who take keepers is fantastic revenge of the nerds but I think this is phase two is the same no now let's get rid of the next set of gatekeepers and keep getting rid of them until there are no more gatekeepers one thing you know
00:25:04as I look at this sort of I mean I think it's sort of a core idea that unites needs of all is all in that power needs to be more diffuse more diffuse more deeply held and that technology market mechanisms can play a critical role in achieving that
00:25:16goal but I think with the boxing community has not clearly articulated is what that society needs to look like or how that becomes possible it's our technology at points in a big big direction but not what it means or what would look like how do you respond to
00:25:29that and I think it's gonna be an involved process I don't think it's a top down design thing delay a if you look at markets at look at the economy for example the economy the giants series of markets no macro economist can actually tell you how the economy
00:25:42works you get enough macro economist the room together it's like politics there's all this arguing they can't figure it out it's back to the blind people in the elephant story they're all feeling different parts the often try to describe it so crypto is like that we've created something
00:25:55that's larger than just us it's like the internet is larger than us it's like the economy it's larger than us you have to describe it observe it evolve it and try to keep up with it rather than trying to top down say oh yeah this is how it
00:26:08should work and this is the vision we're all heading towards I can give some you know day without going into the macro but I can give some examples of things I think will happen at the micro level that may be it may be interesting one is I do
00:26:19think that crypto of will in the medium to long term result in what I call instant jobs right so right now you can just land on a website and you can go and post like and unlike a forum or you know on Facebook or Twitter use going post
00:26:32in post information publish information we take that for granted but that's a huge thing relative say thirty years ago when I was very hard to go and you know get a printing press and paper and and shipping information since in jobs are interesting you click a button you
00:26:44do a task you make money who got something like that it earned a coin basement think there's that's going to be a very big part of let's say five ten fifteen years out in anywhere there's phone there's a job seven feet of tasks needed those tasks and that's
00:26:56that's your that's your job the second thing I think is gonna happen is at the micro level I think we're going to get billions of investors and this is actually something that I think is now kind of an obvious thing that's gonna happen but has been under remarked
00:27:08on I think maybe ninety nine percent of world will be investors and maybe like one percent will be entrepreneurs and what I mean by that I think everybody pretty much can buy something you can go and buy something at Starbucks you can you don't swipe credit card everybody
00:27:20here is bought something it's pretty hard to build something but with crypto there's no more any there's no longer any threshold for investing in something you can invest a dollar you invest ten dollars to put ten dollars into it there and they've got like you know ten thousand
00:27:32dollars %HESITATION you know like a few years later not every investors obviously like that crypto but it is a case that has you totally remove all thresholds you can have somebody from any country in the world click a button and in ten or fifteen or maybe in five
00:27:46would probably look more like ten years I'm just as easily as you'd like something or poke somebody you could send them a dollar and you're gonna search see fundraising rounds maybe nine United States maybe in other countries where it's like a million people putting one dollar reaching to
00:27:59somebody right arm and that's gonna be very calm place and maybe that's what you do recreationally each day you spend a couple of Bucks doing that and that's like you know your %HESITATION is your replacement for Twitter Facebook because you're not just liking or thumbs up in something
00:28:11that you have a little bit of skin in the game it's all fun to follow the portfolio %HESITATION you can see how it's doing and you're helping somebody get financing when they might not otherwise be able to do so so %HESITATION interest in this from like %HESITATION microeconomics
00:28:21him I think it makes a lot more people think like angel invests %HESITATION stink like venture capitalists yeah you can have people crowd funded tied countries you could have people cry from the war you could have people cry funder evolution in the back of the possibilities here kind
00:28:33of analysts %HESITATION when when people are investing a dollar and something maybe they're not even thinking about is investing anymore it's somewhere between donation investing it's like Kickstarter a lot of those projects fail to deliver but the investors only seem to care you know they were kind of
00:28:47doing it more to support the founders much as anything else want one coming to have their their if you did try to cross in a war I think you have a lot less work because it because I think people wouldn't wouldn't pay for it as as easily that's
00:28:58true it's it's easier to fight wars with other people's money yeah the same tell that made the good point recently that historically people who'd warmongers people who declared war said skin the game they have to go fight at the front of the war but today you can be
00:29:11sitting at your desk in Washington DC or in our in Moscow and you can launch a war you never have to fight in it and you had the cost but with by directing money you print money with double click on something bodies that which is if you invested
00:29:23in fear him at three cents whatever they feel is that's the thirty where after that that's the case you know perhaps that was a better investment than investing Facebook or Google to see about yeah yesterday seven hundred X. within two or three years fully liquid yeah say more
00:29:38about some of the %HESITATION store you guys and miss anything they say more about some of the open to everybody and ironically the people who missed it with a venture capital S. that the sum karma errors of I I a great irony that %HESITATION talk more about what
00:29:53society looks like in a world in which ever is investor they're they're way more investors and I'm I'm particularly interested in because of the life of the average American how much it looks like a giant casino for for hate firstly goes completely crazy what everybody's money like everybody
00:30:07scams everybody blah blah that later lots but you kind of have to let him go through that it's a learning curve it's like it took a while before the securities act came along divided penny stocks from public stocks in what was considered legit and what wasn't so it'll
00:30:19take awhile for people to figure it out and they'll be some money %HESITATION lost along the way but it's a global learning curve it's distributed cross seven billion people it's happened very quickly I would argue that you know the recent downturn has been great crypt those at seventy
00:30:31five eighty percent of the value wiped out some of these coins are done ninety five percent and will fully disappear that's good because gonna teach people that %HESITATION you know you can't trust everything you read on the internet and you certainly can't send money to strangers of unit
00:30:43based on what they wrote they'll raise the levels of diligence filled it would raise the requirements for investing and I'm hoping that out of it we'll see at some point a real investment market will emerge but in the short to medium term it looks like a big casino
00:30:54yeah I would say a couple things I think on a lot of the things and sucking valley we've developed like in a term sheets that contemplate things like liquidation preferences and drag along and and stuff like that they're all based on previous train crashes or car crashes that
00:31:10happened like you know big conflicts that happen in the past the lawyers go and break that into contracts to avoid those things happening in the future figures show see a lot of that big to smart contracts we're allowed the wisdom of you know how investments have worked gets
00:31:23baked in and folks start getting one two three year lock ups on the crypto your Schering see the status of an incentive start getting aligned and so I'm you know optimistic in the medium term that you know once you got the compass contracts out there and folks have
00:31:38done diligence on them and a proven that they're also in for the long term along side you then you're gonna be more likely to listen to their recommendations on the coin and then you'd buy in so I think it's a process but I I do think there's a
00:31:49light at the end the town yeah long term you'll see that a lot of these crowd funding this online %HESITATION to the extent they still happen will require that the money goes into smart contracts at them very carefully bleed out the money to the developers or people as
00:32:02they hit milestones are verified by third parties are held in escrow and its revenues coming taxes are automatically paid in pieces are siphoned off and dividends the investors and so on Ronald Coase the economist famously said that a pharmacist at nexus of contracts and you can take the
00:32:18nexus of contracts here and you can program the whole thing you know Nestle need lawyers and bankers and then judges watching every little piece for a lot of the simple stuff you can just have it be on rails and the first company that does it because it's open
00:32:30source the second company with this copy and copying copy you won't have to reinvent the wheel it's just like with code it'll create layers and layers of people would build on until our kids will probably to them creating a company will be they'll just hit one button and
00:32:44like a whole series of smart contracts will fire up in a company we created and they'll drag and drop in who's an employee who was an investor who's hot I'll vote how much and you'll be able to run this completely distributed virtual audible trackable trust this company without
00:32:57needing armies of lawyers and and %HESITATION judges yeah and actually just to just kind of emphasize that or or drawings that when when you go and buy a car from somebody right they sell you sell to you and the most reading their son she was being on the
00:33:10keys you put in the keys in the car turns on great you can go that right when you say go and sell a company to somebody it's not yet a machine like that right the owner can't just leave and you can just operate on your own there's all
00:33:23of this hidden knowledge and you know how to give this instruction to this person what's the context of this contract etcetera the more and more of that we can in code into a next of contracts a systems more contracts the more sellable and liquid a company is because
00:33:38it's like a machine that you can just sell for its future cash flows right I think that's going to start with just basic websites like let's say file conversion service or something like that that's the kind of thing where you can start to imagine okay it's got this
00:33:50many visitors a month it's just code that executes on inputs and returns outputs that's the first kind of thing I could imagine the source to get sold in this fashion on but then over time more and more complex companies start to be become machines what car so you
00:34:03can just sell and then operate without the owner if the firm goes away or the way we understand company buildings becomes radically different what skill sets are are now needed much more in order to thrive in the new doctrine comic it's the same skill sets that are always
00:34:18needed anything that a computer can eventually be trained to do a computer will do and the things that computers cannot do and probably will not do in our lifetimes I'll take the other side the general a I bet is they can't be creative so at the end of
00:34:31the day you want to be creative you wanna be learning skills to create new things entrepreneurship is one instantiation of that art is another but anytime you're solving a new problem you gonna get paid for that I forget who said it but famously said that in the future
00:34:47I the your telling the computer what to do or computers telling you what to do and you don't get the wrong side of the transaction so it's it's much better if you can be creative and then you can teach a computer how to do it rather computers giving
00:34:58instructions to do lots of things the computers can't do yet one question let people asks by regulation and I want to ask is are they different question related to it which is if you assume that a key role of governments in regulation in market economies is to correct
00:35:12for market failures in a decentralized economy how will you correct market failures %HESITATION is part of the crypt of these is that there are no true market failures only distortions created by regulation itself I think that people want regulated markets in the sense that they want some trust
00:35:28for the actor to it to ban bad actors and impose some form of quality rating on the system which are those are two different things by they banning a bad actor is not the same as giving that's like a zero star actor person giving three stars to a
00:35:41well intentioned but maybe not amazing good actor so that they want regulators to do this kind of thing but the form that regulation can take it could be a national regulator or can be an international regular like an Amazon and eBay or list or near B. and B.
00:35:56which have the star ratings they have reviews a reputation and people consult them and look at the star ratings prior to buying their products it doesn't have to be eight like national regular just to be some trustworthy source of reviews and reputation a can D. platform bad actors
00:36:11in so I think what's going to happen with a trip to space is you're gonna see a wide variety of different kinds of review and reputation other kinds of sites arise are already seeing this and then those that are good enough will either be subsidized by you know
00:36:24critter transactions or are will be good not to people pay for just like the current market for like you know buy side and sell side advice so I think that will arise and then we'll see whether you know the more is necessary that or whether that's a a
00:36:36whole area in its own right yeah and to the point of like if a certain crypto economy has a market failure it's poorly designed and snot allocating resources properly or people getting cheated they'll leave they'll forget whether this go to another one there's a came an explosion of
00:36:51crypto experiments out there which makes it really easy to hop around and when you look at the price of one of these it's basically how much trust people have in it right now I can add to that also I think one thing that's interesting concept is sometimes you
00:37:03appeared of tolerable anarchy so for example with email spam it got really bad and they're all these vigilante ishe approaches that were proposed and then you know finally but actually did work was a mathematical solution vision spam filtering which maybe didn't solve on her personal problem to solve
00:37:20most of it you know with with emails you know spam filters and sometimes if you have somebody intercede too soon they can lock in a solution that's on the slide up to one like another example is in terms of spectrum auctions you know much later we develop things
00:37:33like CDMA and and and technologies that don't require like this government spectrum auction of you know frequency division been with those were available in the locked in a solution based on regular shin rather than tolerating appeared of anarchy and leading technology or like right now with %HESITATION investing
00:37:48rules with a locked in solution called the accredited investor program where you have to have a million dollar net worth and then you're allowed to invest in a lot of private assets and if you have less than a million dollars you're considered a more on anything more than
00:37:59a million dollars your genius and that's obviously not how the world works and should probably be replaced by some kind of sophistication test and everyone's known as should be replaced by some kind of sophistication test and here we are eighty three years later still talking about what is
00:38:12the sophistication tests now I want to hear more about how you too we talk about it Alan future and what we see how you to want to dissipate in that features a budget case maybe for Stephen scribe division for for quite basin and your work there and then
00:38:26of all you can get into Angelus going missing efforts sure yes so when my doing a crime is so %HESITATION I am so I am molesting driving the dish in new assets first and foremost the integration of earn and and you know making that something that I think
00:38:44you know maybe a bill to earn as well as buy and sell a coin base and then a bunch of other cool projects I can't talk about too much %HESITATION and been doing those things with compass ventures in investing in a lot of companies are coming up and
00:38:56%HESITATION brought about the vision of Columbus old building open financial system and while that sounds maybe like you know generic corporate speak whatever %HESITATION it what it really means is you know if you think about what Lennix was versus windows Lennix was an open source system and anybody
00:39:10could download it and you could hack if you could access to it and now you have not bring system that you could customize and the same way like building a more open financial system it's hard to measure of finances and thats more close than a run is today
00:39:22right so more open one is one where you can pull a blockchain and a kid in Vietnam can go and collaborate with somebody from Japan and Brazil and Turkey because they're all using the blockchain at the same time and we've held on where people into that we've helped
00:39:35educate them we help them get their first imaginal currency may believe seven exchange in their country we've basically on board of people into this more open financial system and that's that's our mission yeah I'm mostly involve the space with coin listed with metastable coin list is the legal
00:39:51regulated well let market place for I seals that we spun out of angel list and will run I CIOS for file coin block stack and a few other pretty well known players in the space now also doing legal complain airdrop so we just ran the divinity air drop
00:40:04drop being when they're giving out points to influential people like developers they want supporting the project and then with metastable where the oldest cryptocurrency fund that bought anything other than a bit coin and mainly there we back teams that are building other improving decentralization and scaling for new
00:40:20protocols on block chains so we're investors and chi %HESITATION basis coda you have heard a bunch of these but the town of them and that we are always in the first round and we try and do is we've of highly technical team that works with the companies to
00:40:34basically look at solving fundamental protocol challenges I don't think we're quite yet in the face yet where somebody can build large scale working applications and block chains you may not have caught this at the beginning but the solution to how to make sure somebody doesn't run off with
00:40:47your money and blockchain land is everybody keeps a copy of the entire database going all the way back to the beginning of time it's incredibly inefficient subluxations don't scale well you trade off decentralization and survivability for scalability and so now there's a whole generation of startups are trying
00:41:05to solve the scalability problem and so we back teams that do that because of course started Angelus Angelus among other things which I did democratizing cobbled marked as investing in startups obscures how you think about inequality as relates to read about him you know wealth inequality social equality
00:41:22got me got unpacked the word in a quality because some people used to mean it in a quality of opportunity and some people used to mean and equality of outcome so equal opportunity is you know the American dream it's a in theory of the American dream works we
00:41:35all have equal opportunity to to get to wherever we want with enough effort but equal outcome is quite the opposite I mean that's what you get in North Korea right so you have to be very careful about differentiating between the two because free people make free choices and
00:41:49if you make different choices you get different outcomes and they'll be on equal outcomes and now we're living in an age of tremendous leverage so if you make the choice to start a social network while your student at Harvard you know you might be sucking you might make
00:42:02billions of dollars but if I make the choice to start on a like a location tracking that work you know three years ago that goes zero or if I make the choice to go study medicine that's on leverage so we are seeing very unequal outcomes because the huge
00:42:13amount of leverage in the system so I I think that over to the block chains do offer as they say they do offer equal access anybody can go N. contribute to the bitcoin block generally theorem blocks in anyway contribute code to it anyone can contribute resource to it
00:42:29and none of it is talking about good old fashioned in a quality equality of opportunity the USA I'm talking a globally I'm I'm talking across all ages and talk about a fourteen year old kid who's sitting in Bangladesh can contribute to the bitcoin blockchain so you want to
00:42:42equal opportunity they have equal opportunity in that regard but on the other hand in no way does a promise equal outcome it's a meritocracy and meritocracy that winners and losers yeah I I'd cut the problem slightly different I mean it complementary at you know the fear of his
00:42:57so which is inequality is typically concerned with what's called centralization of wealth and within crypto people are often concerned with centralization of power but those are actually very related things and you know what I'm optimistic about Bachchan's for is they give us a a way as a community
00:43:16to fork off and someone's only powerful or wealthy if effectively other folks are giving them that power at least in the constable actions so we always have the sex that we always have this ability to vote against you know some kind of tyrannical force with our feet and
00:43:33with our wall and fork away from it yeah in fact I think one of the interesting things to notice that one of the ways that something you coins are competing with existing clients is they're taking a model which %HESITATION it's called the fair Quinn model which is they're
00:43:43trying to air drop or distribute the currency as widely as possible so you're the really seeing new coins instead of doing fundraisers from investors they're just trying to identify people and does give away the coins in the extreme version of that would be Facebook air dropping a coin
00:43:59to billions and billions of users under the idea that the more widespread the money as the more likely it will to be used as money and become valuable as opposed to today were sitting in this system where land ownership goes back hundreds or thousands of years based on
00:44:13whose great great great grandfather got through the gun first so that's an unequal system it's far more equal to like reset the wealth and redistribute and then hope if you can get into enough hands they can re spark what money really S. today for example the way the
00:44:25federal reserve distributes money as they basically drop to the banks who extremely sticky fingers and slowly breathed out an economy is that the best way to distribute money I'm not so sure so I think at least with black jeans we get to test new models of equal this
00:44:38be sure to resources this is perhaps another version of a maturity test but I'm curious what would need to be true what facts would have to emerge in order to change your mind on on some of these topics to maybe not become okay to maximize anymore is that
00:44:52you know it maybe this is not gonna have that much of big of an impact in action spend that much time it would failure modes look like I I would say like if there's some fundamental heretofore undiscovered security issue that's the kind of thing which I am and
00:45:05I mean that is not something that can be patched right but like a theoretical new class of attack that renders you know all these different kinds of block chains like infeasible or you can contact them an update them in a bad way that would be the kind of
00:45:19thing which would you know make me say okay you know what I thought this was a secure way of building things but maybe it's not I think that's hard to do because we've now got a diversity different approaches something Bachchan's but it's possible so it's kind of thing
00:45:29that would cover and %HESITATION make me question whether that feature was was real yeah I think is a technological failure cases I think that you could have let's say a bit coin or something like that gets used like a you know a horrible terrorist attack and you know
00:45:44how the government S. like any excuse to grab power like after the after nine eleven we got the patriot act patriot act give us all these kinds of abuses including NSA surveillance of all of our activities for that for the rest of time I could see politicians overreacting
00:45:57and blaming all of krypton basically cracking down on next Gen internet in which case it's sort of fleas to other countries and it kind of goes underground it still gets developed it just gets developed elsewhere more slowly how should governments be responding to all this government the governments
00:46:11are a little bit of a route they may not realize this but then a little bit of a race with each other the United States is extremely lucky that we have the reserve currency of the world today and restrain the lucky that Silicon Valley is parked in the
00:46:22US it's not luck I mean a lot of it is due to good policy but we're we're lucky that that good policy existed or exists that allowed those formations to happen and I think in crypto land what we're basically saying is at least big chunks of the next
00:46:35generation of the internet and possibly what discount the next mission of money is up for grabs like if I was like you know running a little Singapore I would strongly consider just buying a bunch of some cryptocurrency probably big claim if it's too expensive mail just make my
00:46:49own and then make sure we have all of it and make it look it's legal tender and then make of able to rest the world so then all of a sudden you have a cryptocurrency that has a lot of usage and other people in the world could often
00:47:01use a sound money and by being the first adopter here in a big way the country would end up just making trillions upon trillions of dollars equivalent and will probably become than you reserve currency after the US dollar so in some light sense the countries of the world
00:47:14are in a competition against each other but it takes a big leap so most agreed that I also think there's a big mental shift you make when you go from thinking of the government to a government because there's more than a hundred governments in the world right you
00:47:27know depending on how you counted more than seventy percent so can valley is made of immigrants %HESITATION and everybody here you know either within your lifetime your parents live time up in up and left why to make a better life right for economic opportunity and if that economic
00:47:41opportunity is not in the US because not keeping pace the blockchain well you know it's easier to move now days I've got mobile you've got social you've got all the stuff you get on and you know river get her a flight right away so you know the other
00:47:53aspect of it is you don't need huge amounts natural resources you need like a you know a mine of uranium or something like that for the to to build watching commune you just need a internet connection I mentioned and and good regulatory environment right very nice beach this
00:48:07right so any any any estimate as that helps right at it but you actually have the blessing companies of the most disturbing to companies in the world right because we invest in them all day long we see them all day long their developers are spread out some cases
00:48:19the fully anonymous like even the team members don't know who the other team members are and they're all over the world and it honestly all companies right I'm some of them just go straight source groups yeah yeah the OpenSearch groups to just go straight crypto on the may
00:48:31not even have traditional terrestrial you know make it is one that's coming up that's really people are into that's all the developers are named after heart Harry potter characters and nobody actually knows who they are when they're little yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah why is in Singapore other
00:48:45governments doing this now what what would is it possible that they might or is it too much of invaders dilemma to know the starting like Melissa will just take one yeah it'll just take one looking when someone has to be both desperate enough and smart enough like Venice
00:48:59was desperate but the thugs are still in charge right so it's it it kind of just have to come together in a right way you could see for example a post communist that as well %HESITATION that sort of recovers when people getting together they can have a choice
00:49:11of what we do with our currency and nobody will ever trust a bull of our ever again hopefully so then what do you do do we adopt the US dollars legal tender but now our monetary policy set by the United States so you could see that there are
00:49:22some areas where if the crypto infrastructure is good enough that they might go with a cryptocurrency yeah and this is already government center definitely you know moving in a very pro blotching direction so Malta Bermuda Estonia and even then a bunch of others that have initially announcing to
00:49:37publicly but I think you know governments are already trying to compete for example for Amazon's issue too right they're trying to compete for Google's sidewalk labs they're trying to compete for you know very sebesta dollars instruction tech companies this is just an extension of that values and thoughts
00:49:53on how blockchain unlocks or enables new career opportunities for us to think about our careers in different way you don't have to be in Silicon Valley %HESITATION yeah %HESITATION unpack that a little bit sure sure yeah so I'd this concept that you're single most important metric for your
00:50:06life is arguably your personal runway which is your savings divided by your burn rate and the thing that's interesting about that will you know savings very anti American thing talk about this I suppose it's not growing okay okay great so %HESITATION you know the thing that's interesting about
00:50:21that is it's much much easier to reduce your burn rate by five X. or ten X. by moving out of San Francisco to you know Thailand or India or South America or something than it is to increase your net worth by five or ten X. right and %HESITATION
00:50:36because like reducing your burner is deterministic it's within your power you could execute on it tomorrow and %HESITATION what's amazing about crypto is it's making it even easier to go and earned like a San Francisco or first world salary even if you're in you know developing world in
00:50:51the developing world is gone a lot nicer because you know globalization last ten or fifteen years she can have a basically first real center living with you know three or four X. as much savings each year and then you don't need angel investment you've you've got plenty of
00:51:04runway you can work for a year and take two or three years off sitting that's going to become a bigger deals combination of digital nomadism remote work crypto currency at center that's a trend I I see growing if it's already happened to me I I won't name the
00:51:16time but %HESITATION on vacation to beach town somewhere in Asia and I was looking to get away from all this stuff and I get there they have multiple crypto co working spaces they have a big blockchain ink you better %HESITATION people are recognizing the next thing and I'm
00:51:30giving talks about the shift so especially when you get to those kinds of places with a lot of ex pats you notice that a number of them and I'm making a living somehow in the crypt of community it's a great audience questions that are that are running into
00:51:42a I am blockchain complementary are competitive in the long term so teal actually has a good line on this which is %HESITATION hit observation that a I is mostly centralizing and blockchain is decentralizing in the sense that first this is like definitely buzzword bingo first just sitting there
00:51:59eating right but but if you actually engage with it a to to build a machine learning algorithm you typically need to accumulate a lot of data and that is typically a centralizing thing you've got data from lots of different people or lots different cameras are ever all in
00:52:14one spot you know the Chinese government being like the Senate of that kind of centralization it is possible with technologies like federated machine learning %HESITATION homomorphic encryption to actually keep the data local and then just Calexico efficient but it's harder much harder so yeah it's going to be
00:52:29this probably centralizing force that will give more power to centralize institutions conversely blockchain is a decentralizing force and the key thing is in the mix more complicated because a decentralized everything it creates enough money and wealth that more than compensates for the costs of decentralization which I think
00:52:45is a critical thing and that's why I think blotching dubbed the queen doesn't work abortion that a token does work because then you just decentralizing without that added economic incentive to those are these two kind of you know forces centralization decentralization thing here's the interesting mixes and remixes
00:53:00between them but those are that's one axis on which cut it how do you think about identity in a box and what how does it change the concept of how we understand identity a lot of people talk about anonymity privacy but perhaps the missing the bigger picture and
00:53:12how it's gonna reframe our sense of any murders and also that %HESITATION that you dig into it again but I think in a very high level you can have identity you can have a wealth tied to anonymous that then season the blockchain world which you can do in
00:53:22the real world or as much harder to do in the real world and also in box and then you can actually own and control your identity today our choices for identity ownership or the government which like leaks or security numbers left and right credit card card companies every
00:53:36waiter has your credit card or it's %HESITATION you know experience whoever just got who got hacked and lost everything its Facebook you trust is like with the identity right he'll sell you for like a ten cent click add so all the ways that your identity gets held out
00:53:50there are just saves like you don't actually own your own identity anyone here has been the victim of identity theft knows how incredibly frustrating and useless it is kind of like regain your identity and then we talk about biometrics where yeah somebody's lift a fingerprint once in your
00:54:04Daddy still in for life so I think we have a big problem where in a world where we have digital assets that our identities are all over the place and the good news about crypto is that to secure your digital assets properly they've had to build tools that
00:54:18are very very good for preserving identity so we're going to see a lot of effort spent by a lot of crypto entrepreneurs to bring personal ownership of private keys identities and passwords to the masses and that's one area that I'm really excited about over the next decade so
00:54:33if that happens it's it's not just for securing your big coin ownership it's also for security all of your day see data including your medical records in your credit history and all those kinds of things that's right I think your trip to private key is are going to
00:54:46be an anchor that brings a lot of stuff local and that doesn't mean the cloud goes away but what it might mean for example is that your private keys encrypt a lot of your data in the cloud only you can view them or only you can compute on
00:55:01them or something one aspect of having private keys be local is that you know and I did the system is effectively built into every cryptocurrency because it's as if you have Sir present credentials you know you to sign a transaction %HESITATION before it can be broadcast accepted by
00:55:15the network and that process of signing it is effectively an entity verification step and so we can build a lot of stuff on that primitive just like you know your your credit card might be looked at by the person at the counter and they just see is actually
00:55:29you this step of it into verification can be used to set up new kinds of social networks right where %HESITATION your synonymous but your balance shows that you're actually you know an actor with some investment that you're not just a troll you put you know fifty or a
00:55:43hundred Bucks into a token governing this network and now there's less incentive just go and it character assassinate people have no character to assassinate you just kinda have to discuss endears right on and you can sit honestly told them you know but it's not you know was it
00:55:58was fun that right %HESITATION so so I think that this is you know this entire concept assuming I collect the synonymous economy I think in twenty thirty years it's going to become much less frequent but you're quick real name on the internet it's like putting a social security
00:56:13number out there or your personal phone number it's S. global identifier by which all the people who need to know it know it and the people who don't need to know it can just use a pseudonym maybe a realistic sounding pseudonym but you know that they wouldn't know
00:56:25what was in your real name they don't actually have that handle that kind of grabs you and that you can pull the Davis records on you we talk about blockchain in a I've been curious how you see doctor intersecting with other emerging technologies whether it's virtual reality in
00:56:38if things are some of the quantum computer as buzzword bingo quantum computing gets brought up as like oh this could break blockchain encryption not really there already quantum resistant hatching schemes out there and in a in a very deep physics sense quantum mechanics med Surg one computing may
00:56:55actually help block chains because it turns out that %HESITATION doing the hash function in tangling things is easier than detailer them even think one computing rusted normal computing so it gets brought up as this %HESITATION what about quantum computing thing I'm I'm not what about at that level
00:57:09with VR it's actually really interesting because V. R. is about that we're digital world and I'm sure many of you seen or read right ready player one the foundation of a digital world is a digital economy and if you want a digital economy then you're not gonna sit
00:57:22there digital economy it's like a credit card with four to go to a visa MasterCard or PayPal right it's got it's got to be like programmable it's got to be part of the whole ecosystem three permissions the programmable the internet especially if it's going to dominate our lives
00:57:35that extent is going to have its own native money right do you imagine that a hundred years from now the internet and not going to have its own native money but it's still gonna be using dollars an R. and B. or people shipping bricks of gold around of
00:57:46course not right so I think that a true functioning virtual reality ecosystem which is probably you know one to two decades away so it's a little far out will require it's own native programmable electronic money and crypto is the way to do it yeah let's put it out
00:58:01want wanted two decades %HESITATION %HESITATION way to twenty thirty years even further who are the big winners and losers or what types of players are gonna be the big winner in this so I think well winners hopefully will be the world %HESITATION in the sense that you're gonna
00:58:15have we were people able to get jobs raise capital trade without banking fee is you know incorporate exit star companies invest in companies all of that type of stuff you know I think is going to become much much more widespread in terms of you know folks who might
00:58:32be on the other side of it well I I I definitely think posters gonna get a run for their money you know from from all this and you know some of the firms are smart and they know that blockchain is important others you know they're they're not yet
00:58:44there and then you know we'll see what happens it's almost you have you a form of government governance right now that doesn't require rulers or central actors anymore so anyone who's made a living as a gatekeeper is going to get hurt and and other countries on the on
00:58:57the converse of it anyone who was kept back by gatekeeper gets helped but it's a very it's a very fuzzy statement right it to it plays out in a million different ways for the builders in the audience the engineers for the people who are either starting to build
00:59:09in the space or perhaps they work at I don't know Facebook and Google and are curious now's ease and want to get into it which inserts of call to them but where do you want to see them building experimenting innovating what's your what's your call arms I think
00:59:23the best way to get into it is if you're a developer an engineer is start understanding bludgeons themselves go contribute some of the open source code bases these are all open source and they're always looking for volunteers and contributors it's amazing how even some of these incredibly large
00:59:36block chains that have tens of billions of dollars riding on them will have a handful of developers you can count on one or two hands so just people diving in helping out it just takes a small number of people to make a huge difference and it automatically makes
00:59:49a name for you like if you're one of the big coin developers today you've got any number of career opportunities whether it's a hedge fund or whether it's said that exchange like a coin base or whatever people want to work with you so it's it's the all the
01:00:02twenty five yeah it's the ultimate resident you could be twelve at the you'll be Harry potter character the ultimate resume you'll be AT amp this exact stopping you I folks here in the audience are engineers okay if you are not listening as well yeah okay so %HESITATION most
01:00:16I have better things to do that yeah so so %HESITATION I'm if you are an engineer certainly the highest threshold is is you're contributing to the code base if you aren't yet there what you can do is use communities set up a you know private cluster of you
01:00:32know if your M. nodes are becoming notes and then you can actually simulate like an entire set of transactions on them you can have the mind you can have them send things back and forth you'll actually get understanding for how the thing works in its own hothouse environment
01:00:46because you can like replay an economy that's a thing a really good way to understand how like all the pieces work you don't even have to build anything crypt I can't build anything crypto it's so incredibly complicated it's the intersection of cryptic cryptography in mathematics and computer science
01:01:00and economics and covenants without yes just learn about it I mean just go read up on it it's really endlessly fascinating it's it's like when the internet first launched to contribute to the internet to do something on the internet you don't have to go write a web server
01:01:13you'd have to go contribute to a browser you can just understand how this thing works underneath and start thinking through how can play out and eventually of course the internet is impacting almost every aspect of our lives so that is the potential here as well yeah that's this
01:01:27one interesting things about the space like ninety percent of people can be cap listen one percenter labor because the labor's this really mathematically technically challenging thing but everybody can at least go and buy it so that's it's it's some it's sort of an inversion of what a things
01:01:43used to be or can be adopted yeah inspect and maybe they'll be then you basic income then it's not quite a joke there are people in crystal and we're talking about how do we ever drop enough points to everybody that if this takes off that that's the basic
01:01:55income negative they say that learning about it is its own reward so it is that my honor to have us participate in the Commonwealth club tradition which is with one minute left to ask both of you what is your idea to change the world at a certain so
01:02:16I think that %HESITATION this is somewhat related crypt there I think the ability to collectively move large numbers of human beings them and by that I mean it's like crowd migration you take the Facebook group right now and you know people are just talking to each other and
01:02:31so on but over time you start adding to the currency to that that becomes a casual economy you start adding virtual reality that that becomes like a true virtual economy people it's kind of persistence to it it's got you know money to it you've got a job there
01:02:43at cetera that's I think where the sting assertion everything is going in ten twenty years thing eventually those universal economies you gonna have all these folks who are you know summer in Arkansas and summer New York whatever they can one actual like move to one place and I
01:02:57think that that's gonna be a very important feature of the next ten or twenty years some cult T. bow sorting in economics might is not trip to related I think that it would be if the computer is getting so cheap tablets are getting so cheap and I think
01:03:09that and we have the entire library of Alexandria of the modern age available on the internet that I would love to see like a giant air drop of tablets the developing world where you can basically just have all the text books you can have all the interesting learning
01:03:23materials you can have all the courses all the Khan academy preloaded ready to go you can figure out with some simple software what language you speak what level of education you're at and automatically start teaching you from there and I can connect you with volunteer network of millions
01:03:37of teachers across the world hook and video and at any point and help you with your stock so I think we can educate the whole world much more cheaply than we're trying to do it today because of love to invest in that case thank you very much one
01:03:51last huge round of applause about Robert Khan values are about the if your early stage entrepreneurs please hit us up at Phyllis global dot P. C. slash at work catalyst

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