Full Transcript for Interview with convicted murderer Larry Fulford

couple of 61 00:04:55.000 --> 00:04:58.959 times. He stopped doing shit when I was doing some stupid ship. But 62 00:05:00.079 --> 00:05:01.639 the ones I remember, I had two whoopers from my dad and they was 63 00:05:01.720 --> 00:05:06.360 like really severe beating, you know what I mean. And and that's the 64 00:05:06.360 --> 00:05:11.480 only comedy ever touched me. But he was like he could just look at 65 00:05:11.519 --> 00:05:13.040 me, and I knew he was about to kill me. You know what. 66 00:05:13.079 --> 00:05:15.399 I mean, so my dad got a lot of respect for me, 67 00:05:15.680 --> 00:05:19.920 but he also you know, when he beat my mom, I fucking hated 68 00:05:20.000 --> 00:05:23.160 him, But then when he wasn't doing it, I loved him. So 69 00:05:23.199 --> 00:05:25.000 it's like, right now, I could tell you, like, my dad 70 00:05:25.040 --> 00:05:30.519 was one of the best people after he stopped beating my mom, you know 71 00:05:30.560 --> 00:05:32.600 what I mean. And even when he was, he was the nicest person 72 00:05:32.680 --> 00:05:35.800 to other people. Like like, cause my dad would get a big check 73 00:05:36.839 --> 00:05:40.279 or whatever and have lots of money, and I could be right by him, 74 00:05:40.279 --> 00:05:42.759 and then he could fucking go to a bar drinking like this is my 75 00:05:42.800 --> 00:05:45.560 boy, pat me on the back of all proud of shit. But then 76 00:05:46.639 --> 00:05:49.839 instead of buying me a new pair of shoes or something, he'd buy your 77 00:05:49.920 --> 00:05:53.360 kid a new pair of shues, just try to show off, right, 78 00:05:53.519 --> 00:06:00.759 Like he was that kind of dude, Like he used to cook big pots 79 00:06:00.759 --> 00:06:03.279 of soup and hit and just give it to people and shit like that, 80 00:06:03.399 --> 00:06:05.959 and then at night beating him. He was crazy. So it was like 81 00:06:06.079 --> 00:06:09.680 one hand, he was a really good guy. On the other hand, 82 00:06:09.720 --> 00:06:16.120 he trust So you have like a love hate relationship with your father, then 83 00:06:18.199 --> 00:06:21.079 yeah, yeah, you know I love my dad. I do because you 84 00:06:21.079 --> 00:06:24.399 know, the one time that I did step in the top of him from 85 00:06:24.439 --> 00:06:31.120 beating my mother. This is fall from her and she fucking hit me in 86 00:06:31.160 --> 00:06:39.240 the head of the fieldmog so yeah, but yeah, it was really weird 87 00:06:39.279 --> 00:06:44.079 though, because I stopped him twice and then after that he never touched it 88 00:06:44.120 --> 00:06:47.199 again. It's really weird once I got old enough, you know. But 89 00:06:47.360 --> 00:06:51.959 that was a pretty guitar dude, you know. You time to joint came 90 00:06:53.000 --> 00:06:58.360 out big as fuck, you know. Oh yeah, so, Larry, 91 00:06:58.560 --> 00:07:03.199 have you been diagnosed with any mental illnesses? Waiting? Well, yeah, 92 00:07:03.319 --> 00:07:06.240 I mean in here, I thought, well, you know, I was 93 00:07:06.279 --> 00:07:09.680 in the Lucas who are riot? So I don't know if you know that 94 00:07:09.800 --> 00:07:12.920 or not? Right, Yeah, well, and we'll we'll talk about that 95 00:07:13.040 --> 00:07:16.040 near the end of the interview for sure. Yeah. Well, so I 96 00:07:16.079 --> 00:07:20.040 think it's part of if I diagnosed who spells into that? But before that, 97 00:07:20.439 --> 00:07:25.639 no, I had never really uh you know, I was like, 98 00:07:25.759 --> 00:07:28.879 I got in trouble with shit as kids, and they tried to send me 99 00:07:28.920 --> 00:07:33.839 to some people, but I was so fucking stubborn and and shit about it, 100 00:07:33.879 --> 00:07:35.920 Like I was like, I ain't nothing wrong with any fuck, you 101 00:07:35.920 --> 00:07:41.120 you know. I mean that normal teenager attitude, right and h so, 102 00:07:41.279 --> 00:07:44.879 no, I've never really had a real diagnosis. I've had a prison diagnosis, 103 00:07:44.920 --> 00:07:50.240 and they think I'm fucking super violent sometimes and uh gets the frantic and 104 00:07:50.360 --> 00:07:54.000 fucking paranoid and shit. And I think a lot of that has to do 105 00:07:54.040 --> 00:07:57.839 with the riot though. Do you hear voices? So yeah? No, 106 00:08:00.879 --> 00:08:07.240 good. So did you engage in any type of criminal activity as a juvenile? 107 00:08:09.560 --> 00:08:16.480 As a juvenile, I was stealing cars and uh stereos, and yeah, 108 00:08:16.560 --> 00:08:20.279 I stole clothes like I used to steal my school clothes. Like I 109 00:08:20.439 --> 00:08:26.480 was Mom's dad would you know, get their checks or whatever, and then 110 00:08:26.519 --> 00:08:30.000 they get drunk and so I wouldn't really have money for school clothes. So 111 00:08:30.879 --> 00:08:33.399 you know, Dad or Mom one of them would end up giving me fifty 112 00:08:33.480 --> 00:08:35.840 or forty dollars, you know, and I'm supposed to buy all my clothes 113 00:08:35.919 --> 00:08:39.960 this well I would go use that fifth he has, like this front money 114 00:08:39.240 --> 00:08:43.000 and then steal all my school clothes and stuff. And uh, yeah, 115 00:08:43.039 --> 00:08:48.919 I was always into something. You know, I wasn't really violent, U 116 00:08:50.600 --> 00:08:52.279 until you know, I got older, and then I started getting violent, 117 00:08:52.399 --> 00:08:56.759 you know, fighting a lot of stuff. But as a young man. 118 00:08:56.279 --> 00:09:01.559 In school, I really was just to myself. I played music and I 119 00:09:01.639 --> 00:09:03.879 used to take up for all the kids that got bullied. And it was 120 00:09:03.879 --> 00:09:09.039 weird because I was a little dude. But people just they tended to have 121 00:09:09.919 --> 00:09:13.840 like give me fifty feet, you know, they had a respect for me. 122 00:09:13.919 --> 00:09:16.200 So if I've seen a bully picking on a guy, which I had 123 00:09:16.200 --> 00:09:20.559 a couple

of friends that became my friends that I saved from bullies, and 124 00:09:20.559 --> 00:09:24.399 I would run up to help him, and the bullys can usually just run 125 00:09:24.399 --> 00:09:31.320 off. I pretty much. I had like frocky ten uncles that was fucking 126 00:09:31.480 --> 00:09:37.200 super violent and everybody knew it. Right, So I'm kind of like the 127 00:09:37.240 --> 00:09:41.360 little chiawa I could balk at you because he knows you got ten bodies behind 128 00:09:41.399 --> 00:09:46.559 in the other man, right, So did you ever did you ever do 129 00:09:46.600 --> 00:09:48.840 any like Julie time or were you ever arrested for any of those crimes as 130 00:09:48.840 --> 00:09:54.440 a juvenile? I I was arrested. I got arrested one time on the 131 00:09:54.720 --> 00:10:01.039 on the granddad that was a Julie and granddad or a car. I went 132 00:10:01.120 --> 00:10:05.240 to JDC and maryan Ohio. But I was only there waiting to go to 133 00:10:05.320 --> 00:10:09.799 court, right, So only he did like fifteen twenty days there and went 134 00:10:09.799 --> 00:10:16.519 back to court and got out. So I never actually did any sentence to 135 00:10:16.559 --> 00:10:22.240 any juvenile time. So nope, I kind of skipped that went straight to 136 00:10:22.320 --> 00:10:26.039 prison, you know what I mean? So at eighteen, did you engage 137 00:10:26.039 --> 00:10:31.360 in any criminal activity after turning eighteen prior to the case that you're serving time 138 00:10:31.440 --> 00:10:37.480 for now or nos? Soon as I turned eighteen, Like that year is 139 00:10:37.519 --> 00:10:41.440 the year I got this murder case. Right during twenty life I started. 140 00:10:41.679 --> 00:10:46.240 I got arrested like right after I just turned nineteen. So you gotta remember 141 00:10:46.519 --> 00:10:50.600 in December, so I'm my birthdays in January, right, so you know 142 00:10:50.639 --> 00:10:54.639 what I mean, like right next to each other. But at eighteen, 143 00:10:56.200 --> 00:10:58.559 I was living like a full blown adult. You know. I had a 144 00:10:58.639 --> 00:11:05.279 job. I was working at Ford, a place four Ford, you know, 145 00:11:05.320 --> 00:11:07.639 not four and Foard, But I was working at a company a Ford 146 00:11:09.080 --> 00:11:13.360 Fixed and Transmissions because I learned I learned how to do major engine repair and 147 00:11:13.639 --> 00:11:16.879 votes ag in school, right like I went. I quit school at sixteen 148 00:11:16.960 --> 00:11:20.879 and went and took a trade so that I could, you know, make 149 00:11:20.919 --> 00:11:24.919 money because my girlfriend had a son and I kind of adopted him, right, 150 00:11:26.200 --> 00:11:28.799 But I was living as a full grown adult, I had a car. 151 00:11:28.080 --> 00:11:31.039 We lived in our own apartment. Every time I got paid, I 152 00:11:31.080 --> 00:11:35.960 would go get my mom some money because she had my sister, and my 153 00:11:35.960 --> 00:11:41.200 sister was

a baby. And I at eighteen and even at seventeen and sixteen, 154 00:11:41.519 --> 00:11:43.919 was the only person in our family that I had a car, like 155 00:11:45.080 --> 00:11:48.279 full time. So everyone in my family, and you gotta imagine, man, 156 00:11:48.320 --> 00:11:50.320 I had a really dad, had nine brothers, four sisters. Mom 157 00:11:50.360 --> 00:11:54.200 eight brothers, sisters, they all had kids, some of their kids had 158 00:11:54.279 --> 00:12:00.360 kids, and so you can imagine everyone always needed a rod or everyone when 159 00:12:00.440 --> 00:12:03.519 it comes from me all the time. Like I was like a sinner of 160 00:12:03.600 --> 00:12:09.159 my family at one point in time. Yeah, so I wasn't really being 161 00:12:09.639 --> 00:12:13.200 a criminal at that kind of eighteen. I was kind of chilling out. 162 00:12:13.919 --> 00:12:18.879 I was an alcohol I drank. I drank a lot on even when people 163 00:12:18.879 --> 00:12:22.559 weren't around or I was by myself, I would drink. But during the 164 00:12:22.679 --> 00:12:26.679 day I would go to work, I would come home. I didn't you 165 00:12:26.720 --> 00:12:31.320 know, I didn't fuck up my job stuff like that, and uh, 166 00:12:31.679 --> 00:12:33.679 yeah, it was just weird. That year. I was really good. 167 00:12:33.720 --> 00:12:37.759 I was I was working, I was trying to help everyone in the family 168 00:12:37.799 --> 00:12:43.799 and everything that I wasn't doing anything wrong before that. I was running around, 169 00:12:43.919 --> 00:12:46.759 you know, fighting, getting in trouble. I had got a for 170 00:12:46.919 --> 00:12:52.080 only this assault charge in the same building I ended up killing this guy in 171 00:12:52.519 --> 00:12:56.399 there was a guy named Frank riggsby there, and uh, you know, 172 00:12:56.440 --> 00:12:58.960 I beat him up pretty bad and got a charge for it. Flo, 173 00:12:58.080 --> 00:13:01.879 I saw, It's one of the charges they used to push me into a 174 00:13:01.919 --> 00:13:07.360 plea bargain on this murder case. So yeah, I had a fucking pending 175 00:13:07.399 --> 00:13:11.759 colonious assault on that. Let's talk about the crime that you're currently in prison 176 00:13:11.840 --> 00:13:16.840 for. Now. You're serving twenty to life for the murder of Stephen Vanderpool. 177 00:13:16.480 --> 00:13:20.440 Can you walk me through everything that led up to the homicide of Stephen. 178 00:13:22.279 --> 00:13:24.559 Yeah. So, you know, like I was telling you, this 179 00:13:24.600 --> 00:13:26.240 is the year. I'm eighteen. I'm trying to do the right thing and 180 00:13:26.360 --> 00:13:33.080 work and you know, stuff like this. And so this apartment building that 181 00:13:33.200 --> 00:13:37.000 Steve lives in, he lives in the basement apartment in the top floor, 182 00:13:37.639 --> 00:13:41.840 My aunt Debbie lives and she has a son, Roy Holsinger, who ends 183 00:13:41.879 --> 00:13:48.720 up being one of my core fenders, and his sister Rachel. They lived 184 00:13:48.799 --> 00:13:56.879 upstairs, right, So anyways, I've worked that day, so my lady 185 00:13:56.000 --> 00:14:00.200 her son was too young to be by myself, so I had I had 186 00:14:00.240 --> 00:14:05.399 Debbie watching him, and so it was like eight thirty at night, and 187 00:14:05.399 --> 00:14:09.440 and his mom, my girlfriend, she was at work at the Hamburger joint. 188 00:14:09.480 --> 00:14:11.440 So I had to go pick him up, and then I had to 189 00:14:11.440 --> 00:14:16.120 go pick her up, right, And so so I pulled up at the 190 00:14:16.159 --> 00:14:18.840 place and uh, I go in. They're having a party. They're all 191 00:14:18.919 --> 00:14:22.960 partying and stuff, like a thirty And I told you I'm an alcoholic. 192 00:14:24.039 --> 00:14:26.879 So I started to drink and uh, you know, I didn't even go 193 00:14:26.960 --> 00:14:31.120 upstairs and get my son yet. I just started to drink at this spasement, 194 00:14:31.159 --> 00:14:33.759 a parsiment party and stuff. This is Steve's party. Everybody's there. 195 00:14:33.840 --> 00:14:37.279 I don't know this guy though. He just moved in, all right. 196 00:14:37.399 --> 00:14:43.440 And so you know, a long story short at night, moves on and 197 00:14:43.480 --> 00:14:48.080 stuff. I end up leaving and going and getting my brother in law, 198 00:14:48.080 --> 00:14:52.399 which would become my brother in law later, my wife's brother, Cameron, 199 00:14:54.440 --> 00:14:56.320 and I end up going getting in it. So because I have n't drive 200 00:14:56.480 --> 00:15:00.399 my son back to his mom because you know, he was so when I 201 00:15:00.480 --> 00:15:05.080 wasn't so anyway. At the end of the night, it's like fucking one 202 00:15:05.159 --> 00:15:09.679 across, two o'clock in the morning, I'm dropping, I ain't home. 203 00:15:09.200 --> 00:15:11.600 I go out and get in the car and I'm leave. I'm hearing the 204 00:15:11.639 --> 00:15:16.879 league and getting ready drugs up the long and uh got the car running and 205 00:15:18.000 --> 00:15:22.440 here comes my little cousin. I called my cousin. The little Roy comes 206 00:15:22.440 --> 00:15:24.879 out. He knocks on my window and he's like, hey, you gotta 207 00:15:24.919 --> 00:15:28.600 come back in here, because dude won't let Rachel leave. He's in there 208 00:15:28.600 --> 00:15:30.600 fucking with us. So I'm like, what do you mean. Now, 209 00:15:30.679 --> 00:15:35.679 Rachel's fourteen years old. Steve was dirty at the time, and so I 210 00:15:35.759 --> 00:15:37.639 was like, all right, fucking hold on, I'm like to get out 211 00:15:37.639 --> 00:15:43.279 of the car. And I go back in and Steve has Rachel like he 212 00:15:43.440 --> 00:15:46.200 lives in a shotgun apartment. It's like here, you go through the door, 213 00:15:46.559 --> 00:15:50.639 the living room, kitchen, bed room, bathroom, right and you 214 00:15:50.639 --> 00:15:54.919 can see it the whole way through. And

so I see him. He's 215 00:15:54.919 --> 00:15:56.320 on the bed. He kind of got her pins up against the wall and 216 00:15:56.320 --> 00:16:00.720 he won't let her leave. You know, she didn't. She's fourteen, 217 00:16:00.799 --> 00:16:03.320 so she'd been already, you know, doing her thing, and she's shaking 218 00:16:03.320 --> 00:16:07.279 her but at the party and sucking all around him, teasing that night. 219 00:16:07.399 --> 00:16:11.120 It's not her fault, so you know what I mean. So anyway, 220 00:16:11.679 --> 00:16:12.720 I go over there. I snatched her by her on. I say, 221 00:16:12.840 --> 00:16:15.919 rightel, get your eyes upstairs. You know your mom wants you. And 222 00:16:17.000 --> 00:16:19.120 as soon as I pulled her away from him, he punched me in the 223 00:16:19.159 --> 00:16:22.200 face. And so if you go, if you ever can find those newspaper 224 00:16:22.240 --> 00:16:26.039 clippings, the first mug shot you see of me, you'll see my eyes 225 00:16:26.159 --> 00:16:30.919 swelled. It's almost it's got a big ass swelled up mark on the bottom 226 00:16:30.919 --> 00:16:37.360 of it. So anyways, I've seen this half a pool queue when because 227 00:16:37.360 --> 00:16:40.559 he knocked me down, so I looked over and her against the wall. 228 00:16:40.600 --> 00:16:44.080 It was like a half a pool queue, and I just jumped up and 229 00:16:44.120 --> 00:16:47.399 whacked him twice with the pool queue. He fell forward. They said he 230 00:16:47.440 --> 00:16:51.000 was already dead. But when he hit the floor, I pulled the refrigerator 231 00:16:51.000 --> 00:16:56.120 over any so that he couldn't move, grabbed her turtlet get her ass upstairs. 232 00:16:56.360 --> 00:16:57.320 There was a ton of people in the part, but I don't even 233 00:16:57.399 --> 00:17:02.039 remember, and I went out. I got in my car and I drove 234 00:17:02.080 --> 00:17:06.640 home, and you know as about it, we did. We did. 235 00:17:06.799 --> 00:17:11.440 On the way to my house, I stopped the car and let Roy Dean 236 00:17:11.519 --> 00:17:15.720 out to run over to a payphone. The car inlets and he gets over 237 00:17:15.759 --> 00:17:19.119 to this payphone. It's in front of this apartment building. Someone ripped the 238 00:17:19.240 --> 00:17:26.319 receiver off of the payphon. So to this day, I think if he 239 00:17:26.359 --> 00:17:32.079 could have made that call, it might have safety these lives. But yeah, 240 00:17:32.480 --> 00:17:36.799 that's how it went. So what was the aftermath that followed that night? 241 00:17:37.640 --> 00:17:41.039 So my brother in law, the guy that became my brother in law, 242 00:17:41.160 --> 00:17:47.200 went back to the house and took duth wallet and got twenty three dollars 243 00:17:47.240 --> 00:17:49.400 out of it, and that caused it to be an agg murder add robbery 244 00:17:49.440 --> 00:17:52.920 case, see what I'm saying. So he ends up being a cody a 245 00:17:52.960 --> 00:17:59.759 month and he comes back.

He wakes me up at five thirty in the 246 00:17:59.759 --> 00:18:03.480 morning and am you know, I'm and I've been drinking shit. So you 247 00:18:03.519 --> 00:18:07.119 know how that is. So well, maybe he wakes me up and he's 248 00:18:07.160 --> 00:18:10.400 like, man, ld you gotta get up. I'm like, well, 249 00:18:10.400 --> 00:18:11.480 I just put the fuck when I went wrong. He's like, look, 250 00:18:11.559 --> 00:18:15.559 dude's dead. Don't what are you talking about? Man? He's like that 251 00:18:15.640 --> 00:18:17.960 too. Man, he got into it with that night. He dead. 252 00:18:18.440 --> 00:18:22.400 And so I got up and then I'm sucking freaking out and know what to 253 00:18:22.440 --> 00:18:27.319 do. I drove up to my mom's house and told my mama, said, 254 00:18:27.319 --> 00:18:30.920 listen, I'm probably gonna be going to jail. I fucking killed somebody 255 00:18:32.240 --> 00:18:36.079 last night. And she's like, shut up if you're fucking retarded quick playing, 256 00:18:37.160 --> 00:18:40.319 like my mom, I'm serious, And I told her the situation and 257 00:18:40.359 --> 00:18:42.000 stuff, and I went back to the house. I said, at the 258 00:18:42.039 --> 00:18:45.799 house, my girlfriend comes home from work. She went to work that point. 259 00:18:47.279 --> 00:18:49.519 She comes over and work. She in the bathroom and he's bathtub taking 260 00:18:49.519 --> 00:18:53.920 a bath, and we hear the police coming up with debt. There's nowhere 261 00:18:53.920 --> 00:18:57.160 to run. I'm in the top two apartment and so I fucking brand in 262 00:18:57.240 --> 00:19:00.440 the bathroom, closed the door. Well days in the bathroom, what the 263 00:19:00.480 --> 00:19:03.440 fuck are you doing? I'm like, man, the police are out there, 264 00:19:03.599 --> 00:19:04.200 and she's like, well, where you gonna go? We didn't have 265 00:19:04.240 --> 00:19:08.519 no bathroom in the window, the window in the back, so my bucket 266 00:19:08.599 --> 00:19:11.079 I just walked out there. He's like, then we want to talk to 267 00:19:11.079 --> 00:19:15.640 you and I went downtown and that was it. Yeah, and so you're 268 00:19:15.680 --> 00:19:21.000 arrested the same day that he passed away. No, I was rerested the 269 00:19:21.079 --> 00:19:26.079 next well, yeah, probably because yeah it was am so yeah, probably, 270 00:19:26.960 --> 00:19:32.799 yeah, probably the same day. I'm not really sure one hundred percent 271 00:19:32.880 --> 00:19:37.960 the day, but I'm pretty sure it was December, the second, December 272 00:19:37.039 --> 00:19:44.519 second of ninety one. I'm almost a part of it. Yeah, yeah, 273 00:19:44.680 --> 00:19:48.720 so you know that's how that happens. And before I get in, 274 00:19:48.759 --> 00:19:52.160 dieted on that Steve. I'm in and I'm in jail, right, it's 275 00:19:52.200 --> 00:19:57.079 the second My uncle Randy's in the range of our county jail is four rangers 276 00:19:57.119 --> 00:20:00.279 in our county JAD

of ABC and D. D and D are a little 277 00:20:00.319 --> 00:20:04.880 small ranges on the side. A and D are like the long ranges over 278 00:20:04.920 --> 00:20:08.119 a lift stop. My uncle's over on d Ramming. It was like, 279 00:20:08.160 --> 00:20:11.119 hey, broke gave me one of the mattresses out there. So there's a 280 00:20:11.160 --> 00:20:14.880 big palomaitresses. When you go in, you gotta grab one take it in 281 00:20:14.960 --> 00:20:17.960 with you. But I grab one and I slide it through the food slot 282 00:20:18.000 --> 00:20:21.359 to it, and I realized that this is a big ass food slot. 283 00:20:21.400 --> 00:20:22.640 It's kind of big. I thought I could fit my head through this fuck 284 00:20:22.680 --> 00:20:26.279 it, and so I tried it, and I fit my head and it 285 00:20:26.440 --> 00:20:30.839 fit right. So I'll fast forward you to the twelfth of December. I've 286 00:20:30.839 --> 00:20:34.839 been there for ten days now, and it's quiet as fun. I see 287 00:20:34.880 --> 00:20:38.319 that third shift CEO leaves the cat walk open on the County's hill. There's 288 00:20:38.319 --> 00:20:42.240 a day room on our roof, and I slipped through that fucking food slot. 289 00:20:42.799 --> 00:20:45.880 I took my cody camera with me, and he slipped out of his 290 00:20:45.960 --> 00:20:49.759 food slot and we went around, went out into the day room around the 291 00:20:49.759 --> 00:20:53.480 top of the building, and slid down the wires to the fucking communication lines 292 00:20:53.559 --> 00:20:56.440 on the back of the building and escaped out of the county on it. 293 00:20:57.559 --> 00:21:02.079 So, yeah, that happened. How long How long were you and how 294 00:21:02.119 --> 00:21:06.960 long had you been out until you were re arrested? Well, we ended 295 00:21:07.000 --> 00:21:14.079 up turning ourselves in because I was only out for like probably hours, you 296 00:21:14.119 --> 00:21:18.519 know what I mean. It probably wasn't a full day, so but it 297 00:21:18.599 --> 00:21:21.839 felt like forever, you know, because he was on the run. And 298 00:21:22.079 --> 00:21:26.079 I went and to my grandpa's and then my grandpa never gave me a ride 299 00:21:26.079 --> 00:21:30.119 and mcdermay dropped me off. But then my grandpa later mcgot I was in 300 00:21:30.160 --> 00:21:32.440 the woods hide and then he come and got me and said, look, 301 00:21:32.480 --> 00:21:34.960 man, he said, the arrest of your grandma. My grandma was like 302 00:21:36.039 --> 00:21:40.279 seven years old or whatever, sick. He's telling me everything happened. I 303 00:21:40.319 --> 00:21:41.200 said, you know what, I'm not gonna let her sit in jail. 304 00:21:41.200 --> 00:21:44.960 Said let's go, and I taught him. He called, and he called 305 00:21:45.039 --> 00:21:48.920 him. He called the sheriff, which was hall at the time, I 306 00:21:48.960 --> 00:21:52.480 think, and he said, look, man, you know my grandson wants 307 00:21:52.480 --> 00:21:55.839 to

turn herself in. And then he said, we'll put him on the 308 00:21:55.839 --> 00:21:57.160 phone. So I'm talking to him. I'm talking to the sheriff phone the 309 00:21:57.160 --> 00:22:00.640 phone. I said, listen, I'll turn my self here. I said, 310 00:22:00.640 --> 00:22:02.000 but you gotta do me fair. And said, listen, man, 311 00:22:02.039 --> 00:22:03.400 don't bring all them cameras. I knew it was gonna be tons of cameras 312 00:22:03.440 --> 00:22:07.759 because you already was on the murder right. I said, listen, don't 313 00:22:07.759 --> 00:22:11.039 bring all that news shit. And don't you know, come like swarming in. 314 00:22:11.160 --> 00:22:15.440 I said, I'm unarmed. I'm gonna fucking I'll turn myself in. 315 00:22:15.960 --> 00:22:18.119 He's like, look like, I said, I know your family, my 316 00:22:18.160 --> 00:22:22.680 whole life he does, because they weren't out of jail. But he said, 317 00:22:22.759 --> 00:22:25.279 uh, I'll come and get you. He shall, I'll bring one 318 00:22:25.319 --> 00:22:27.119 person with me, will come in an unmarked cars and should just tell me 319 00:22:27.240 --> 00:22:30.920 where and win. And he kept his word and come and got me. 320 00:22:30.960 --> 00:22:33.400 But when we got back to the county, there was news cameras everywhere town 321 00:22:33.559 --> 00:22:38.240 thirteen news Chuck strictly. I don't know if you're word of him, but 322 00:22:38.440 --> 00:22:41.759 he was an anchor. He'd come to court and tries to interview me and 323 00:22:41.759 --> 00:22:45.599 stuff, and I never would talk to him. But yeah, pretty well, 324 00:22:48.279 --> 00:22:52.359 So you had an eventful life. So you said you were offered a 325 00:22:52.359 --> 00:22:56.000 plea deal what you took, which was the twenty to life correct. Yeah, 326 00:22:56.079 --> 00:23:00.680 So on that you gotta realize that down I'm in there, I have 327 00:23:00.839 --> 00:23:07.440 agg murder, AG robbery, flows assault pending on unrelated charges and now I 328 00:23:07.519 --> 00:23:12.400 have an escape because I escape, right, And so they bring me downstairs 329 00:23:14.400 --> 00:23:17.680 and the prosecutor griffs. I was like, tell him, my attorneys to 330 00:23:17.759 --> 00:23:18.880 tell me, he gonna give me this deal, give me a deal twin 331 00:23:18.960 --> 00:23:23.680 of life. They'll drop the robbery or drop everything else. And that's just 332 00:23:23.920 --> 00:23:26.799 be what it is. Me. I'm like, hell, no, I 333 00:23:26.799 --> 00:23:29.200 ain't about to do all that. So my attorneys are like, well, 334 00:23:29.200 --> 00:23:32.759 look, even if you don't do it on escape the flowings, assaulting all 335 00:23:32.799 --> 00:23:34.200 that, you end up doing like this amount of years. It was like 336 00:23:34.240 --> 00:23:38.119 fifty some years. It was crazy, right, And so they said, 337 00:23:40.039 --> 00:23:41.359 you want to talk to somebody before you decide, and I'm like, yea, 338 00:23:41.359 --> 00:23:45.359 I'm gonna want to talk to my dad. So in the new scaper 339 00:23:45.440 --> 00:23:48.640 clip thing, you could read this if they say this, they actually go 340 00:23:48.680 --> 00:23:52.920 into the hallway, pat my dad down, you know, pat him down, 341 00:23:52.440 --> 00:23:56.400 and bring him into the courtroom to the fucking defense table and set him 342 00:23:56.440 --> 00:24:02.480 down and show him all the pictures of the dead body of Steve of my 343 00:24:02.599 --> 00:24:06.559 hands and just all everything that they had. They showed it to my father 344 00:24:07.319 --> 00:24:10.119 and my dad said, I'm like, well, what do you think, 345 00:24:10.200 --> 00:24:11.839 man? And he's like, man, I don't know, he said. 346 00:24:11.839 --> 00:24:15.400 I'm not no lawyer. He said, but twenty to the life with the 347 00:24:15.400 --> 00:24:22.000 possibility of parole after fifteen sounds better than eighty flat right. I'm like, 348 00:24:22.319 --> 00:24:23.599 he said, at least you'll have a chance to get out here. He 349 00:24:23.640 --> 00:24:26.799 said, dare You're gonna die in prison if you do eighty fifty to eighty 350 00:24:26.880 --> 00:24:32.200 years, you know you'll never get out. So that's what I did. 351 00:24:32.400 --> 00:24:36.240 I end up taking the deal. My attorney paid for my married license right 352 00:24:36.240 --> 00:24:40.960 there on the spot, went downstairs and got married to my girlfriend, and 353 00:24:41.160 --> 00:24:47.720 uh, all to Lucasville. So how did you feel after you were convicted 354 00:24:47.759 --> 00:24:51.720 and sentenced knowing that you wouldn't have to serve fifteen years in prison before being 355 00:24:51.720 --> 00:24:56.240 eligible for parole? But you know, it never really stuck into me. 356 00:24:56.319 --> 00:25:03.440 It's just like it's weird because you know, like I told you, growing 357 00:25:03.519 --> 00:25:07.759 up, my dad had all those brothers, even even my dad's mother, 358 00:25:07.920 --> 00:25:11.400 my grandmother, all did time in prison. So you have to understand. 359 00:25:11.440 --> 00:25:15.839 I've been in our prisons my whole life, visiting people. So it was 360 00:25:15.960 --> 00:25:19.680 kind of like I felt like this shit didn't even bother me. I'm in 361 00:25:19.759 --> 00:25:22.160 jail, it didn't even really bother me. The only part to bother me 362 00:25:22.319 --> 00:25:26.880 was missing people, missing family, missing things, right, and so it 363 00:25:26.960 --> 00:25:30.680 never really hit me like at one time, like and still to this day, 364 00:25:30.720 --> 00:25:34.240 I still feel like, man, I'm gonna get out. I'm not 365 00:25:34.240 --> 00:25:37.920 worried about I got hope. Sometimes I feel like that, you know what 366 00:25:37.920 --> 00:25:41.559 I mean, and I don't know that she's a really weird thing unless I 367 00:25:41.559 --> 00:25:45.599 sat here and look back and all the people that's dead and all the people 368

00:25:45.640 --> 00:25:49.160 that you've grown up and stuff. It's hard to really fathom the time I've 369 00:25:49.200 --> 00:25:53.400 been in prison now, and you know, I was just going with the 370 00:25:53.400 --> 00:25:57.160 flow. Back then, I was young to come into prison. I started 371 00:25:57.200 --> 00:26:03.079 boxing, trying to get my stuff together, fighting all the time because I 372 00:26:03.160 --> 00:26:06.559 was a young kid. And you know, back then there was a lot 373 00:26:06.559 --> 00:26:11.279 of fucking people fucking trying to rape young kids and ship. You know, 374 00:26:11.359 --> 00:26:14.680 because I came to prison, they still had to wait, they still had 375 00:26:15.319 --> 00:26:18.839 like everything. It's crazy, and yeah, I don't know. I was 376 00:26:18.880 --> 00:26:22.960 just trying to survive. Andrew I was like, I was just trying to, 377 00:26:26.160 --> 00:26:30.119 you know, make it. And it's hard. I think to this 378 00:26:30.240 --> 00:26:34.079 day. I owe a lot to my family through the name Treddie Stone. 379 00:26:34.640 --> 00:26:38.880 It's one of my dad's first cousins, because he was in Lucasville when I 380 00:26:38.920 --> 00:26:45.759 got there and he kind of fucking guided me along. And so without him, 381 00:26:45.839 --> 00:26:48.319 I think it's hard to tell what would have happened to me. I 382 00:26:48.359 --> 00:26:51.240 could have probably been killed because they was killing people in Lucasville. When I 383 00:26:51.319 --> 00:26:55.160 got there, it was like the most employous prison in the hall in the 384 00:26:55.240 --> 00:27:00.039 United States back then. So yeah, it's terrifying. Hey, my lawyer 385 00:27:00.160 --> 00:27:06.200 even in my plead rangement, it even says it in the newspaper when you 386 00:27:06.279 --> 00:27:11.720 have one minute remaining. We had an interview after I got since, and 387 00:27:11.799 --> 00:27:12.680 my lawyer said, yeah, I just hope they don't send me in to 388 00:27:12.759 --> 00:27:17.759 Lucasville. They actually created that into paper. If you can never see those 389 00:27:17.759 --> 00:27:22.119 papers, you see all that. Speaking of Lucasville, you were there serving 390 00:27:22.200 --> 00:27:32.079 time when the riots broke out, correct, Yeah, yeah, so oh 391 00:27:30.799 --> 00:27:34.279 so tell me what you know about the riots and what everything looked like to 392 00:27:34.359 --> 00:27:41.160 you from your perspective at that point in time. Man, Well, I 393 00:27:41.160 --> 00:27:42.920 got told you. When I first got to Lucasville, it was August. 394 00:27:44.799 --> 00:27:48.759 It was August the nineteen ninety two, and the day that I walked in 395 00:27:48.839 --> 00:27:52.160 the door, man, it was like you see in the movies, you 396 00:27:52.200 --> 00:27:59.039 know, dudes was whistling and this and that, and so it was terrifying. 397 00:27:59.079 --> 00:28:02.000 I was the nineteen year kid, you know what I mean, And 398 00:28:02.079 --> 00:28:06.160 I never did no junior time, so the only thing I had was my 399 00:28:06.279 --> 00:28:08.640 county and experienced that my mom, you know, my dad and all that 400 00:28:08.799 --> 00:28:12.640 had told me from their prisons. But anyway, I'm walking down the hallway 401 00:28:14.680 --> 00:28:18.880 and I give in my sale and I was just in shockman. I didn't 402 00:28:18.880 --> 00:28:21.599 know what to do. And this place was super violent. So you had 403 00:28:21.640 --> 00:28:25.559 to be on your toes all the time, right, And it was just 404 00:28:25.759 --> 00:28:27.440 terrifying and it was hard to blend in. And like I told you, 405 00:28:27.480 --> 00:28:32.680 had I not had my cousin here, it's hard to tell what would happened 406 00:28:32.680 --> 00:28:34.880 to. You know. My second day in the sale, I got in 407 00:28:34.880 --> 00:28:41.279 a fight with the guy and stuff like that. But yeah, my feelings 408 00:28:41.319 --> 00:28:45.119 about this, that Lucasville was that it was just a murder place. It 409 00:28:45.200 --> 00:28:49.279 was terrible. It was fucking awful. Him. Yeah, it was violent 410 00:28:51.000 --> 00:28:52.759 leading up to the riot. You know, I had only been there for 411 00:28:52.839 --> 00:28:56.839 like a year because the riot was April or ninety three, and uh, 412 00:28:59.200 --> 00:29:03.519 you know, them had been told that they was going to be forced to 413 00:29:03.519 --> 00:29:07.960 take TV shots and so they wasn't feeling that. So that's what really kind 414 00:29:07.960 --> 00:29:11.079 of got the ball rolling. Plus it was a lots of other shit, 415 00:29:11.200 --> 00:29:14.880 you know, it was forcing us to sell black and white, and back 416 00:29:14.880 --> 00:29:18.400 then you just didn't do that, and they was forcing people to do so. 417 00:29:18.559 --> 00:29:22.519 There was no phones, we couldn't call. We got one phone call 418 00:29:22.680 --> 00:29:26.200 a year for five minutes and stuff like that. You know, a little 419 00:29:26.240 --> 00:29:29.759 shit like that. It just all added up to guys just going crazy. 420 00:29:30.559 --> 00:29:36.160 But on the day of the riot, man, there was like this this 421 00:29:36.400 --> 00:29:40.440 fucking fog in the air. It was just like a heavy air that day, 422 00:29:40.480 --> 00:29:41.799 you know what I'm saying, Like you ever just felt that, like 423 00:29:41.920 --> 00:29:48.119 something just ain't right feeling, And that's how it was all that morning. 424 00:29:48.160 --> 00:29:52.119 I got up, I fucking put some cigarettes in my pocket, and I 425 00:29:52.279 --> 00:29:56.039 grabbed a big gass cup of coffee and went out to the day room. 426 00:29:56.720 --> 00:29:59.400 The day room is a room in between the blocks and you can kind of 427 00:29:59.440 --> 00:30:04.559 see the hall way. I'm out there watching the fucking poison ivy and uh 428 00:30:04.599 --> 00:30:18.599 and uh I'm watching poison ivy huh huh uh

yeah, so yeah, I'm 429 00:30:18.640 --> 00:30:22.960 fucking just rip it off there, uh something too. So yeah, So 430 00:30:22.759 --> 00:30:30.720 when it started, I could see it, and uh, I can hear 431 00:30:30.759 --> 00:30:34.400 this big gash rumbling coming down the motherfucking hallway. And so I'm looking out 432 00:30:36.039 --> 00:30:41.200 and it was terrifying. The CEOs saw my doors was but here they come 433 00:30:41.279 --> 00:30:45.480 man then back in and Lucas Shilda was the key man. He's in the 434 00:30:45.480 --> 00:30:48.000 hallway with sky Can in the hallway that when you want to get out of 435 00:30:48.039 --> 00:30:52.079 Bronchie, flick a light switch. They see the light, they come down, 436 00:30:52.119 --> 00:30:56.319 they open the door. When they open the door, there's two consoles. 437 00:30:56.240 --> 00:30:59.759 And that's where the CEO said, And they're in the wide open. 438 00:31:00.319 --> 00:31:03.440 Just run right in. Boom. It's what they did. They ran in, 439 00:31:03.680 --> 00:31:06.359 tack on the cell and beat the bunk out of them and stabbed them 440 00:31:06.400 --> 00:31:10.240 up, and then hit the keys and open all the doors to the blocks 441 00:31:11.119 --> 00:31:14.160 and and it was terrifying. You. I mean, I've only been there 442 00:31:14.200 --> 00:31:17.160 like a year. I was just a kid. Anyone who says they wasn't 443 00:31:17.200 --> 00:31:22.519 scared is lying. I don't care who he was, because one full move, 444 00:31:22.960 --> 00:31:27.200 youtually got killed. You know, I've seen bodies laying everywhere, you 445 00:31:27.200 --> 00:31:33.000 know, to this day, I'm still I'm still really skeptical that only eleven 446 00:31:33.039 --> 00:31:37.119 people died, right, because I've seen people laying everywhere, and you know, 447 00:31:37.279 --> 00:31:40.200 I just feel like in my heart that there was some kind of cover 448 00:31:40.400 --> 00:31:45.920 up to that ship, because I've seen piles of bodies man, and it 449 00:31:45.039 --> 00:31:49.559 was way more than the eleven, you know what I mean, I don't 450 00:31:49.559 --> 00:31:52.880 know. And it was pretty wild. I went around breaking pipes and started 451 00:31:52.920 --> 00:31:56.960 to get water because they shut the water off, so I would climb up 452 00:31:56.960 --> 00:32:00.079 into the ceiling of the break pipes so the water would run out into the 453 00:32:00.240 --> 00:32:05.279 big trash cans so we'd have water and stuff, and yeah, it's pretty 454 00:32:05.319 --> 00:32:07.960 wild. I don't know. Did you ever get into any fights during the 455 00:32:08.039 --> 00:32:10.319 riots, Like, did you ever get stobbed up? Or did you ever 456 00:32:10.359 --> 00:32:15.880 have to defend yourself myself? I never, I never got Oh. I 457 00:32:15.960 --> 00:32:19.599 got in fights all through by time at Lucasville, but I never got in 458 00:32:19.720 --> 00:32:22.680 any in the riot. And the riot, I kind of stayed by put 459 00:32:22.759 --> 00:32:27.799 a bandanna. You know, they were wearing blue. We was wearing black 460 00:32:27.799 --> 00:32:30.079 sweat shirts, and we put our blue shirt over the top of it. 461 00:32:30.160 --> 00:32:35.240 Like everybody was just trying to have the same outfit, right, And then 462 00:32:35.279 --> 00:32:38.319 I put a blue bandanna around my face and then my ball cap on, 463 00:32:39.000 --> 00:32:44.319 and I had a big ass piece of metal, you know, like sword 464 00:32:44.400 --> 00:32:49.599 thing, and fucking uh. I was just running around breaking pipes and shit. 465 00:32:49.640 --> 00:32:52.079 I wasn't trying to hurt anybody. I wasn't trying to get hurt, 466 00:32:52.119 --> 00:32:53.839 you know what I mean. Was there ever any time where you felt that 467 00:32:53.880 --> 00:32:58.160 your life was in danger, that you were going to possibly get stobbed up 468 00:32:58.279 --> 00:33:01.200 or killed? Yeah, the whole time, the whole time. I mean 469 00:33:01.240 --> 00:33:06.079 it was terrifying, because I mean it was like I told you, like, 470 00:33:06.640 --> 00:33:08.359 save me, and you pass each other in the hallway and me and 471 00:33:08.400 --> 00:33:13.039 you didn't get along, right, but we was in different blocks and so 472 00:33:13.119 --> 00:33:15.440 we've been living there. But just say that we didn't get along. And 473 00:33:15.480 --> 00:33:17.799 you've seen me in the riot. He was like, all here is that 474 00:33:17.880 --> 00:33:22.240 dude, everything you know, you're gonna have fifty dudes just stabbed you because 475 00:33:22.359 --> 00:33:25.400 everybody was first to just have a reason, you know what I mean. 476 00:33:27.359 --> 00:33:30.680 And so yeah, it was fucking terrifying. Man. I was I didn't 477 00:33:30.680 --> 00:33:35.039 know what to do. I was scared of that the whole time. So 478 00:33:35.160 --> 00:33:39.160 did you witness did you witness the stabbings and the murders of the officers and 479 00:33:39.200 --> 00:33:44.839 the elements and stuff like that. Well, there was only one officer that 480 00:33:44.880 --> 00:33:47.599 they say died, and I never witnessed that because it came later in the 481 00:33:47.680 --> 00:33:55.440 day. The initial takeover, the initial siege I've seen CEO's getting VS time 482 00:33:57.000 --> 00:34:00.519 and that which is why I tell you to this day, I personally don't 483 00:34:00.519 --> 00:34:05.680 believe the only one seal died because when they beat these seals that I can 484 00:34:05.920 --> 00:34:07.239 take over, and it was no way these guys live. I mean, 485 00:34:07.239 --> 00:34:13.079 they beat these guys. This it makes you feel sorry, It makes you 486 00:34:13.159 --> 00:34:15.159 I feel it's hard for him. I mean I was just like wanted to 487 00:34:15.159 --> 00:34:17.480 stop it, but you couldn't because you know it was it was awful. 488 00:34:20.440 --> 00:34:22.480 You know, the guy's begging for their lives and getting beat and you

just 489 00:34:22.480 --> 00:34:25.400 standing there and you can't do shit about it. It's it's really harsh. 490 00:34:25.440 --> 00:34:34.079 It's a hard situation. So that was in nineteen ninety three and it's twenty 491 00:34:34.119 --> 00:34:37.519 twenty three. Now it's thirty years later. How do you spend your time 492 00:34:37.519 --> 00:34:44.360 in prison these days? Man? I fucking basically try to myself busy. 493 00:34:44.679 --> 00:34:46.480 I worked, and you got to realize all my family's dead now. So 494 00:34:47.280 --> 00:34:52.440 my mom was my backbone. She's gone. And I have a sister. 495 00:34:52.039 --> 00:34:55.760 But my sister hasn't talked to me since I came up here to Toledo. 496 00:34:57.800 --> 00:34:59.880 I don't know why, you know, I love her. I miss you. 497 00:35:00.480 --> 00:35:04.280 She did it to me, Like my sister grew up in my while 498 00:35:04.280 --> 00:35:07.719 I was at Lucasville. My mom and had lived fifteen minutes down the street. 499 00:35:07.840 --> 00:35:13.119 So if you, if you could probably raid my sister's house right now, 500 00:35:13.480 --> 00:35:16.159 you'd probably see pictures of her from the time she was a baby and 501 00:35:16.199 --> 00:35:21.840 then in the interviews all the way up until she's grown, right, because 502 00:35:21.880 --> 00:35:24.960 that's how our relationship was. But yeah, she hasn't talked to me in 503 00:35:25.000 --> 00:35:30.239 four years, so I don't know. So now I make my days go 504 00:35:30.280 --> 00:35:34.519 by. I work in the kitchen. I talked to role you know, 505 00:35:34.960 --> 00:35:37.559 and I draw, and she kind of helps me, helps me along. 506 00:35:37.639 --> 00:35:40.599 Man. You know, without her, you know, life, you know, 507 00:35:40.679 --> 00:35:44.679 life savers to me. Because at the time she came into my life 508 00:35:44.679 --> 00:35:47.639 and I was ready to give up. I was done, and she just 509 00:35:47.639 --> 00:35:52.400 popped up out of nowhere. Yeah. I was tired, I was done, 510 00:35:52.440 --> 00:35:54.840 I was ready to give it up. And I was actually on suicide 511 00:35:54.880 --> 00:36:01.440 watch on this day that I got a letter from her. I don't even 512 00:36:01.480 --> 00:36:05.760 know if I told her that, But yeah, have you ever have you 513 00:36:05.800 --> 00:36:09.480 ever attempted suicide in prison? Oh? Yeah, I had a couple of 514 00:36:09.559 --> 00:36:15.519 times cut myself a few times. Yeah, yeah, y'all. I was 515 00:36:15.559 --> 00:36:21.920 ready to get it over with. Man, I hung myself and woke up 516 00:36:22.000 --> 00:36:24.360 on the floor, you know, so like I went all the way tile 517 00:36:24.400 --> 00:36:30.719 I was out. So what happens? What happens when when you try to 518 00:36:30.719 --> 00:36:34.559 commit suicide. What's the procedure that the staff need to take to make sure 519 00:36:34.599 --> 00:36:39.320 you're safe and the other inmates are safe. Well, there's there's really no 520 00:36:39.360 --> 00:36:42.079 way. If I want to die, I can die, you know what 521 00:36:42.079 --> 00:36:45.199 I'm saying. You know, people have killed herself here, friends of mine, 522 00:36:45.320 --> 00:36:49.800 buddy of mine just killed herself here, guy named Red, and uh 523 00:36:49.840 --> 00:36:53.840 you know in here. I don't know about other prisons of this prison is. 524 00:36:54.679 --> 00:36:59.519 So say we got Dave room right, the doors are open, seals 525 00:36:59.519 --> 00:37:02.039 are not in the block, so we can go. I could, me 526 00:37:02.239 --> 00:37:07.800 and my buddy could run in your cell and kill you. By the time 527 00:37:07.880 --> 00:37:09.239 they come in here to save you, it's over it. You would be 528 00:37:09.280 --> 00:37:14.719 dead. That's the shit I'm living in right now. So you know, 529 00:37:14.800 --> 00:37:17.840 every day you have to be you know, vigilant, you have to be 530 00:37:17.880 --> 00:37:22.239 aware. It's dangerous. So now I say I wanted to kill myself, 531 00:37:22.239 --> 00:37:24.719 all I would have to do right now, seals are out in the hallway. 532 00:37:24.800 --> 00:37:29.920 I could fucking board my cell up and do it, and they by 533 00:37:29.960 --> 00:37:34.719 the time they figured out I was dead, it'd be too late. That's 534 00:37:34.840 --> 00:37:37.599 simple fact. But I kind of have a will to live now. I'm 535 00:37:37.639 --> 00:37:40.880 trying to. I'm trying to push towards something. Like I told you, 536 00:37:42.239 --> 00:37:45.159 I met Row and she kind of gave me a little new hope on life. 537 00:37:45.800 --> 00:37:50.760 Know, I'm trying to make it all the right things, and you 538 00:37:50.760 --> 00:37:53.039 know, I'm working and uh, you know, try and stay out of 539 00:37:53.039 --> 00:37:57.960 trouble because I used to be a really violent dude, and I thought a 540 00:37:58.000 --> 00:38:01.159 lot and stuff, and I have been trying to avoid all that. When 541 00:38:01.159 --> 00:38:05.639 I say I'm finally, dude, I'm not talking about George people in general. 542 00:38:05.760 --> 00:38:07.239 I'm just talking about in here to survive, you know what I mean. 543 00:38:07.880 --> 00:38:10.760 Because really I'm a nice guy. You know. I'm a family man, 544 00:38:10.960 --> 00:38:15.679 love kids and dogs and all the ships that regular people like. But 545 00:38:15.719 --> 00:38:17.079 then here you have to turn into an animal, you know what I mean. 546 00:38:19.639 --> 00:38:24.480 And it's part of myself that I don't like. You know. I 547 00:38:24.559 --> 00:38:28.800 just want to make it home, man, before I die. I don't 548 00:38:28.840 --> 00:38:34.840 want to die in prison. So Larry does the Does the prison that you're 549 00:38:34.920 --> 00:38:42.039 in offer any type of rehabilitation classes or courses to further your education? Yeah, 550 00:38:42.119 --> 00:38:45.880 they have a few programs. I'm not really sure about re entry stuff 551 00:38:45.119 -->

00:38:50.760 because I'm not close to that yet. But you know, now, work 552 00:38:50.800 --> 00:38:55.159 in the kitchen, and there's a program that I'm signed up for that you 553 00:38:55.280 --> 00:39:00.280 learn like culinary skills and you get state certified to work as a fucking food 554 00:39:00.320 --> 00:39:05.559 service. So that would mean I would be state certified to get out of 555 00:39:05.559 --> 00:39:09.119 here and come back and work at a state facility or anything you know related 556 00:39:09.159 --> 00:39:14.760 to like air Mark food service and stuff like that. I would be certified 557 00:39:14.760 --> 00:39:17.280 for that, and I'm signed up for that. That's the only thing I 558 00:39:17.400 --> 00:39:21.039 know so far. I don't know any other programs here. I know they 559 00:39:21.079 --> 00:39:24.800 got college. I'm too old for that. I got a GD so you 560 00:39:24.840 --> 00:39:30.719 know, I'm a pretty good artist. I'm really good at mechanics. You 561 00:39:30.760 --> 00:39:35.440 know, I was a mechanic corner streets, So I would like to learn 562 00:39:36.199 --> 00:39:37.960 because of the thirty years ago, cars were different, you know what I 563 00:39:38.000 --> 00:39:45.480 mean, I would have to learn the new systems. I'm really sure what 564 00:39:45.480 --> 00:39:50.079 I would do if I got out tomorrow, and I would probably go fishing. 565 00:39:51.239 --> 00:39:57.599 I don't know, I'll be lost out there, you know. So 566 00:39:58.599 --> 00:40:00.599 before we conclude this interview, is there anything that you would like to talk 567 00:40:00.639 --> 00:40:06.639 about that we haven't covered yet. Well, there's probably a lot, you 568 00:40:06.679 --> 00:40:09.000 know, but you know, just trying to think of it now, you 569 00:40:09.039 --> 00:40:12.800 know, it's hard, you know, just if you're if you're trying to 570 00:40:12.840 --> 00:40:16.679 give your viewers and listeners, you know, a picture of a man that 571 00:40:16.880 --> 00:40:21.039 you know, come to prison, and it's been set in prison for thirty 572 00:40:21.079 --> 00:40:23.159 two years. It's really hard to give you that because I've been a solitary, 573 00:40:23.280 --> 00:40:28.400 confined you know, my whole prison bit. I've been in the single 574 00:40:28.440 --> 00:40:31.159 cell. You know what I'm saying, like one person in a cell, 575 00:40:32.079 --> 00:40:37.960 and so at that time living you know, it's harsh and it's it's rough, 576 00:40:37.039 --> 00:40:40.800 and yeah, you know I would want no one would endure this compliant 577 00:40:40.880 --> 00:40:45.880 you know, this this this stuff here. I don't know what I would 578 00:40:45.880 --> 00:40:49.280 say to anyone, you know, Like I said, my social skills are 579 00:40:49.360 --> 00:40:52.119 probably not at the car. You know, I've been locked up so long 580 00:40:52.960 --> 00:40:55.639 and you know, no, I really don't know, man. You know, 581 00:40:57.599 --> 00:41:00.079 maybe we could have a different talk some time out you know, I'd 582 00:41:00.119 --> 00:41:06.039 have to think about that. I don't know, man, what do you 583 00:41:06.079 --> 00:41:08.760 think? Bro? You you you help people? What does it you do? 584 00:41:10.000 --> 00:41:15.039 I give you one minute. I give a platform the prisoners to have 585 00:41:15.079 --> 00:41:20.639 their voices heard and tell their story and get anything out there that they want 586 00:41:20.639 --> 00:41:24.639 to get out there. I don't know, man, this is Steve's family, 587 00:41:24.679 --> 00:41:29.559 if he has a family, you know. I'm sorry, but that's 588 00:41:29.559 --> 00:41:31.639 a true story. I just told and that's how it happened. Yeah, 589 00:41:31.760 --> 00:41:36.239 maybe they'll forgive me and I'll get free one day, you know what I 590 00:41:36.239 --> 00:41:38.800 mean. I had to call you some other times. That was my interview 591 00:41:38.800 --> 00:41:57.079 with Larry Fulford. Thank you for listening, Odd forbidding Trudd forbidden, idd 592 00:41:57.239 --> 00:42:00.079 forbidden. I rest my