ABOUT THIS EPISODE

His Holiness the 14th Dalai Lama was unable to attend this May 2, 2011, symposium as planned, due to ill health. In his stead, Geshe Thupten Jinpa, a principal English translator for His Holiness and Ph.D. in Religious Studies (Cambridge University) and Robert Thurman, Je Tsongkhapa Professor of Indo-Tibetan Buddhist Studies at Columbia University, joined the discussion with four UCLA neuroscientists.
English
United States

TRANSCRIPT

00:00:00thank you all so much for coming out today on what we realize there been some major changes in our programs and so you bought your tickets so we know that you are especially the stalwart some groups who are showing up today we're very pleased to welcome you all
00:00:13to this event symposium on bush's mineral sciences which were sponsoring together with the Semel institute for neuroscience is and human behavior I'm Robert buzz well the director of our center for Buddhist studies here UCLA and I'm the official host for the event although not the moderator when we
00:00:31first visited that the his holiness about a year and a half ago to invite him to UCLA %HESITATION he was asking what he should talk about when it comes to UCLA and %HESITATION I suggested the topic what is true wisdom which was going to be the topic of
00:00:45this morning's discussion and as his his his his typical style he sort of laughed out loud and say well I don't know what true wisdom is handed proceeded just kind of talk through for about fifteen minutes what wisdom wasn't borders and actually at the end of this hearing
00:01:01excitedly said you know if I come to UCLA I should also sit down with some of your scientists and talk a bit with them about %HESITATION Buddhism in neuroscience and it turns out in fact that we have at UCLA very big program in neurosciences with a very strong
00:01:17research component on Buddhism and %HESITATION we very gratefully accepted the suggested and that's the result of the symposium today unfortunately as you all are now aware of his holy to spill yield on after he was leading lengthy prayer services in Japan for the victims of the recent tsunami
00:01:34there and his position offer paid him to travel until he was a sufficiently recovered I believe he actually %HESITATION he is in the air on his way to Los Angeles right now unfortunately too late to attend our events however even though he's not present with us today I
00:01:50think you still given us a very valuable lesson yeah and what the book is typically called the three marks of existence to three marks to characterize all compounded things the first of these is that things are impermanent as indeed they turned out to be for us %HESITATION the
00:02:07second is that things are suffering on not only the physical suffering is holiness experience but also the fact that we don't always get what we want and that's turned out for us also today down the final one is %HESITATION the truth of the the the mark of non
00:02:20self which is that things sometimes are simply out of our control and we have to accept that as they are so we have a object lesson in all three of these marks are from this whole we just today which we should take to heart I think we are
00:02:33we are however extremely lucky to have two eminent scholar practitioners of Tibetan Buddhism %HESITATION here with us on not at not exactly as stand ins for his holiness that certainly would be impossible but is very eminent replacements at least for his loneliness our first is I guess a
00:02:50two button Jim Bob who has been the principal translator for his holiness over the last twenty five years he is the author of self reality and reason in Tibetan Buddhism interesting thoughts and he's also edited ten books of his holiness in addition to his Gachet degree to condemn
00:03:07Paul also holds a PhD religious studies from Cambridge university is currently the president of the institute of Tibetan classics of Montreal and the editor in chief of the translation series at the institute is developing our second speaker will be well known to many of you eyes tens and
00:03:23Robert Fuhrman professor of religion at Columbia University where he holds the first in doubt sharing with the studies in the west leachate talk about here into Tibetan Buddhist studies professor Thurman is a renowned scholar of Indian and Tibetan Buddhism who's produced several philosophy rigorous translations of both sutra
00:03:42and shastra literature including a seminal translation of the marketing your day shop which is widely recognized as one of the major classics in the field of British studies his scholarly and popular writings have have have have winded very widely throughout his career and recently have focused on the
00:03:59inter revolution that individuals and societies undergo as the experience of light and he's also as many of you know a passionate advocate for the Dalai Lama's peaceful gender for the economy of the creep up the Tibetan people his most recent book in this being his of why the
00:04:15Dalai Lama matters his active truth as a solution for China to bat and the world at large we're deeply grateful to both the gimbal lock into professor Thurman for joining us today are literally at the last minute I spoke to Bob about the two and a half hours
00:04:31ago in fact to ensure not only will be aware of that %HESITATION Tibetan Buddhist studies actually has a long history at UCLA going back to nineteen forty eight in fact when the department of what was then called oriental languages was established one of the co founders of the
00:04:55department was the Japanese scholar of Tibetan Buddhism and into an show a Chicago when he came to UCLA he brought a large collection of Tibetan text to campus and established or what has since become one of the top library collections in Tibetan language sources in the United United
00:05:13States in fact we today still continue to teach classical Tibetan to a coterie of faculty and graduate students in the Indian Buddhism and their research uses to baton translations of any materials I in their work we also have a group of anthropologists whose field work has been in
00:05:31Tibetan communities but our coverage of Tibet has not kept up with our dramatically expanded coverage of east Asian and Indian but as this is why we were especially grateful to his holiness for his willingness to lend his name to our new fourteenth Dalai Lama and element in Tibetan
00:05:47Buddhist studies we're also appreciative of the generosity of so many of you in the audience here today who have contributed to this fund and especially to the members of our host committee at our host committee chair regent Richard plot your gifts will ensure that this event today will
00:06:04be the permanent legacy at UCLA and will help preserve the rich traditions of Tibetan Buddhism through research and teaching but finally we will have a chance here I'd like to thank all of our collaborators in these events including the chancellor's office the office of special events of protocol
00:06:20and in particular are three UCLA co host the international institute these demo institute and the Burkle center for international relations it's been quite a whirlwind especially over the last couple of days as we scrambled to respond to the challenges that were created by his holiness is illness but
00:06:39I think all our staff responded to the challenge with remarkable composure and aplomb it's now my pleasure to introduce to you of the interim vice chancellor for the international institute professor Randall Johnson who who will deliver a few welcome remarks on behalf of the UCLA community professor Johnson
00:06:58is a renowned specialist in Brazilian film and literature who has served as the longtime director of UCLA's large Latin American institute before assuming the post of vice provost this last year to please join me in welcoming welcoming vice chancellor rental trucks thank you very much thank you Robert
00:07:22thank you also for the promotion to vice chancellor I'm actually into vice provost for International Studies but that sounds pretty good anyway on behalf of UCLA in the international institute I thank you for joining us here today for this event even in the absence of his holiness the
00:07:41fourteenth Dalai Lama it promises to be an exciting did this afternoon now we are grateful to his holiness for agreeing to participate in this scientific symposium I know that he would be here if he could and we all wish him well and we hope to welcome him to
00:07:59UCLA in the very near future we're also grateful to the similar institute for coordinating the program I wish to give special thanks to our host committee chair UC regent Richard Blum and all of the house committee members for their support of this event and a Buddhist studies at
00:08:18UCLA and I joined Robert in a well in thanking all of the staff members at at UCLA who have been %HESITATION ing gauged in bringing these events about her in planning for these events none of this could happen without them the UCLA international institute is home to twenty
00:08:37two multi disciplinary centers that study world regions and global issues preparing students up for the twenty first century the center for Buddhist studies is an integral part of the day of this family of International Studies programs and home to the largest Buddhist studies program in the western world
00:08:57with more faculty graduate students and undergraduate courses than any other university outside of Asia it is one of the most extensive library collections in Tibetan language materials in the United States we trained scholars and educate the broader community about Buddhist traditions and culture in all of their diversity
00:09:20as Robert is said today's event marks the launch of an initiative to permanently establish Tibetan Buddhist studies at UCLA such a program will serve as a critical resource for UCLA students and faculty and the Los Angeles community and an international focal point for scholarly research with the help
00:09:41of the fourteenth Dalai Lama endowment we can continue to educate a broad range of students about Tibetan culture and Tibetan Buddhist traditions we welcome your contributions to this important fun it is now my pleasure to introduce our symposium moderator doctor Peter see why bro juttson brown distinguished professor
00:10:03and director of the Jane and Terry Semel institute for neuroscience and human behavior is an international authority on depression and manic depressive disease and the effects of thyroid hormone one brain in human behavior he has lectured widely across the United States in Europe and has received many awards
00:10:24he is a frequent adviser to universities foundations and government agencies and is the author of numerous scientific papers and five books including the bestselling American mania when more is not enough which was cited by The New York Times magazine as one of the seventy eight notable ideas for
00:10:45two thousand and five thank you again for coming and please join me in welcoming doctor why pro thank you very much and again the me add my thanks for coming I'm sure for all of you and it has been for us to a disappointment that the deadline on
00:11:11result with this but I believe for the afternoon will be rather interesting we do have three wonderful scholars to my left and three wonderful scholars to my right and if you wish you can think of it as the contemplative and the empirical part of the brain the human
00:11:33brain you know where are fascinating creatures we are in many ways the hybrids we have a brain which goes back millions and millions of years at its core that's the part which is sometimes called the old lizard brain the center of it which keeps all the machinery running
00:11:57that's the thing that pumps you're hot makes you scared when things go bang in the night except for except for a but then on top of that there's this wonderful mantle it's cooled the cortex and the first part of that is called the limbic Cortes which means basically
00:12:16border it borders the old brain and that is something which came along with the mammals a little furry cousins but we're so fond of except when they come into the house and start nibbling the electrical wiring that particular cortex grew and grew and grew until you find the
00:12:42primates of which we are one growing exponentially in their ability to develop social behavior and also in ourselves thanks to a rather large expressions here in our foreheads which is why we have these browser under which the eyes sit this part of the brain is the most recent
00:13:07and is uniquely human we call that the frontal cortex sometimes for obvious reasons sometimes it's cool the executive cortex although that's not really the way we should think about it because it does more than executed actually sort of creates an opportunity for thinking and for contemplation our colleagues
00:13:30here on the left as well as for directive behaviors as we will see here on the right well the summer institute here at UCLA is fortunate in that we get to study all these things left and right it's an institute the began about sixty years ago it was
00:13:53started by the presence of some California's legislature members one wonders where they are now but I have a **** tools but I think %HESITATION their presence was that we need a new little about the brain and so the question became valid as to if we took a resources
00:14:22which at that time was changing that was the resources of a large mental hospital as you know until recent times we've learned about as much in my lifetime as a professional about the brain that we've done for the whole of human history it in this particular age group
00:14:41%HESITATION we have seen the beginnings of the end of custodial care and the beginnings of true science in an embrace and at the beginning of that which was the late late fifties early sixties several states including California develop these research institutes it was called the nearest psychiatric institute
00:15:00because we studied both neurological and psychiatric disability and in nineteen seventy eight it was built on campus by the department of mental health but in nineteen seventy it was given to the university at to be held in perpetuity as a research institute in a hospital when the seminal
00:15:19family %HESITATION almost a decade ago now dialed the institute it became the Semel institute for neuroscience and human behavior and the hospital was similarly end up by the Resnick family so the hospital function and the research function and educational function became two separate entities under the umbrella of
00:15:39the institute now within that we have some three hundred and fifty faculty it's a very large institution it does across campus and it seeks to understand both the disabilities of mine and in that sense again we come close to Buddhism because that is focused as you heard on
00:15:59suffering we are particularly interested in suffering from the standpoint of science and in ameliorating sign the the suffering through science in addition we study normal behavior because we believe that abnormal behavior and normal behavior life on a continuing and so in order to understand the aberrations of mind
00:16:21one has to also understand mine and that is where in fact this wonderful symposium comes together because if you reflect upon it we in the institute as scientists study the afflictions of the self let's think of it that way the disorders of attention of memory of emotion all
00:16:39those things but in fact we cannot study the disabilities of mind purely by reducing the brain to its component parts that would be a bit like trying to understand a sentence by looking at the you know the the call composition of the ink so I think the most
00:17:00important thing here is that you have great human minds thinking together and integrating the notion that subjective awareness of self and objective awareness of self can come together in a mindfulness which is beyond both of them so that's the objective of the afternoon now on my with the
00:17:22way we're going to run in the afternoon which would have been exactly the same as the Dalai Lama were here is that we will have a brief scientific presentations which you will be able to see above our heads here on each of the presenters will then talk about
00:17:37the subject and then we will have as each of their questions at the end which the scientists developed for the Dalai Lama they will now be taken up by Dr Jim pa and and up to the minute and talked about as well in terms of the way in
00:17:52which one can see this from a standpoint of Buddhism versus the standpoint of empirical science there will be a coalescence we hope that and at the end we will have an opportunity for questions from the audience which I think is being written and talked about as well we'll
00:18:08take care of those so that's the format we lost until three thirty and will again very grateful to have you here so to introduce the scientists %HESITATION I will do that intern but we will go from an understanding from a scientific standpoint of empathic behavior that is compassion
00:18:30in the broadest sense with the way in which we engage each other because we are intensely social animals and it is the relationship between us and among us that makes us so successful is not the individual brilliance but these would be it empathic understanding and learning and Susan
00:18:50book kyma who is the walking proof Brewster professor of cognitive neuroscience and a very generative and broadly developed scientist she knows a lot about memory and a lot about language and a lot about development a lot about the generation a lot about she's not going to talk about
00:19:07today she's going to talk instead about empathic behavior as it develops and also has it sometimes can be abhorrent following that will be talked to builder whom I will introduce a little more detail later on who is going to talk about creativity and then Dr wrapped a who
00:19:28will talk about the tension and anxiety in a very Buddhist context which I will tell you again about later Sir without more do %HESITATION the distinguished %HESITATION %HESITATION Susan will climb up will tell us something about and Susan thank you so much better thank you all for a
00:19:47I coming today and for being willing to come despite the absence of his holiness I am I hope to talk with you in the same way that I would have spoken if he's telling us we're here to talk about the neuroscience of empathy and what I'm going to
00:20:01present is some evidence that we are empathic by nature of that our brains are wired to be empathic and two out to try to show you what some of those neural pathways are and how the brain I'm sets us up to have this empathic understanding from an early
00:20:15age and to demonstrate this I we work with children with autism and one of the first problems that we see in children with autism and in fact in very very young children and infants with autism is a %HESITATION is a a lack of the normal empathic response and
00:20:30to demonstrate that I'm going to show you this video of a typical child whose only ten months old her laboratory this is an experiment here that's giving them a test what she's doing and you can see her in the right hand corner she's demonstrated how uses I'll phone
00:20:46and you can see our young man is very happy and smiling and and playing with the silent phone %HESITATION so she's setting him up to learn how to play with to play with this toy and to enjoy playing with a toy and now she's going to take it
00:20:59back and she's going to say it's my turn he's playing on it and you pretend to hurt yourself watch and starts to cry and we're looking at the young man to see what happens and now he's he wants to go for this album but he knows it's not
00:21:15right is looking at what's going on now his mother is off to the side so he's going to turn to look at mom and say mom mom is it okay is that okay and she says oh no it's okay immediately realizes this okay he starts banging his hands
00:21:30analysis is free to play with us on the phone so even at this very young age ten months old this child understands the concept of empathy he understands the pain about his witnessing and he's upset by it nobody had to teach him that his brain is wired the
00:21:45brain has in fact specialized systems that are designed for the empathic experience and one of the systems that have been written about quite a bit lately is a system called the mirror neuron system this is a system that refers to regions of the brain whose neurons respond both
00:22:02when we are performing a meaningful behavior but also when we observe that same behavior in someone else when we observe somebody else perform the behavior but it was first described by accident in studying reaching behavior in animals and in this case on these are our brain recordings recordings
00:22:21of single neurons in an animal was reaching for a great to put in his mouth reaching for a piece of food and these neuron's as you can see in these parts charts fire when the animal is reaching for that piece of food but it was also found out
00:22:34by accident that the same neurons fire when the animal sees somebody else in this case the person reaching for a piece of food and the idea here is that we understand the intentions of others by internalizing those actions just as if we are performing them ourselves in a
00:22:52sense we mirror the experience that we observe internally ourselves and that's how we reach this level of understanding dinner anatomy of the system is a very interesting anatomy it starts with the mir area in this part of the the front part of the brain called the inferior frontal
00:23:07cortex and it sends some connections through another part of the brain down into some of our sub cortical areas of the brain and these are areas where we do more primitive things %HESITATION and I've circled two of these areas here one is the fear center also known as
00:23:21the amygdala in the bottom of the brain and this is an area of the brain that response when we experience something that scary or fearful or angry and the other area of the brain is called the Avenger striatum and this is a reward or pleasure center of the
00:23:33brain into the anatomy is set up for us to a mere these experience in others and to send that information that we're observing into these primal emotional responsiveness centers so my arm a close colleague world the Prado %HESITATION in in our group has done a study of this
00:23:51in children using our brain imaging functional brain imaging a technology called functional MRI and what we do is I bring these children into the scanner and show them pictures in this case of scary faces and have them a look at our imitate these facial expressions are fearful angry
00:24:08sad and happy and in the brain we see several areas of activity are one of course %HESITATION beer is simply associated with with scene faces and with %HESITATION moving our faces to make emotional expressions but the other area that we see that circle here is this mere area
00:24:25of the brain that doesn't really do anything to help us make the expressions but is active anyway to help us understand the intentions of what those expressions me and we look deep in the cortex I can see that when they see these fearful expressions they show activity in
00:24:40the fearful areas of the brain and when they see these I'm happy expressions they get activity in the pleasure centers of the brain so really what's happening here is that when we see these emotional experiences in others that information is fed down and we experience the exact same
00:24:57emotions that we near the feelings of others by experience that re experiencing it ourselves and that's how we understand how someone else feels because we feel the same thing when we observe that emotion lips on this is also for %HESITATION something that is active when we experience pain
00:25:19so in this case we have an experiment this is done by another group %HESITATION where they observe somebody I'm in a painful situation here you can see the door slamming on somebody's hand there and when we see that that activates our own brains pain center so when we
00:25:34see them else experience pain we activate the same pain center so we really know what that painful experiences about what's very interesting is that this is not just physical pain but the same areas are active for on the perception of social pain and this is shown by one
00:25:51of our colleagues here at UCLA Naomi Eisenberger in this game that she has are subjects play while they're in the scanner called cyber ball in here we have these two imaginary people throwing the ball to the subject was little hand in the center and they take turns throwing
00:26:04the ball back and forth but at some point during the experiment on the the rules change and the other two players start throwing the ball back and forth to each other rejecting subject to sitting there waiting for someone to to our to play that game with them and
00:26:19so even though this is a very artificial scenario it's not a real rejection there only cartoon characters we feel it is rejection and when we look at the brain a what we see is that the same areas that are involved in the experience of physical pain as we
00:26:33see in the right are also involved when we have the experience of social distress or social pain as we see on the left so in a sense what's happening is our brains are are wired to experience for ourselves what we see in others now the other thing that
00:26:51is an important factor here is the concept of balance and the brain is really an instrument of balancing the homeostasis that balances our feelings of pain %HESITATION and other feelings as well with something that will control those feelings we don't get overwhelmed so one of the %HESITATION the
00:27:08means of coping for example with too much pain with too much negative input is a process that we can think of as a suppression that is the frontal parts of the brain as you can see here can actively suppressed for example our fear centers of the brain so
00:27:23that when we experience fear and and we don't want to we can use our intellectual brain to to muffle that response so we don't have that same emotion I'm in the other thing that we can do is this process known as he bit you Asian and this occurs
00:27:40implicitly without an an active or conscious process when we see the same negative %HESITATION %HESITATION stimulate in this case these emotional places again and again and again we become habituated to that response in the graph here shows the brain imaging response and our fears center early in an
00:27:59experiment and late in the next tournament in seeing the same faces of of that anger and fear and negative feelings again and again over time our center are fear centers learn to accommodate the %HESITATION the excessive presentation of the same emotional pain and the center stop responding in
00:28:17the same way and after awhile they just become inured to that experience so in a sense we are brain is also a system of of balance as well as a simple as as a system that experiences and to date we have that a balance between emotional arousal and
00:28:34emotional control and we have a great system that allows us to experience emotion ourselves it just in the same way that we can use it to experience and understand how others are feeling I'm and we know that's a very important system because when it is lacking or impaired
00:28:50we can have very very severe social deficits as I see when we study children with autism so the brain systems that protect us from too much emotional experience ourselves unfortunately are the same bring systems that can reduce our capacity for an empathic response and this is something that
00:29:06we are of course all see in our world today on when we are exposed to too much so that is the end at the end of the scientific part of my presentation and I've I've I've put together a couple of questions to think of this from a more
00:29:18Buddhist perspective and the first of my questions is how did the the Buddhist concepts of compassion and empathy fit with what neuroscience tells us that we have this this %HESITATION informed responses inborn ability to empathize with others as well as these other systems that can balance and regulate
00:29:36that response so thank you very much thank you %HESITATION note by the way %HESITATION definition of the slides are in the right colors I think that's an empathic understanding with our lives we are the wrong color so we can I think we may as well just go straight
00:30:05as I'm sure you have adults about %HESITATION the interesting thing about discussions like this is %HESITATION because in a sense we are bringing kind of %HESITATION explain it to a friend frameworks coming from too you know quite different intellectual traditions today clearly there's going to be issues that
00:30:30deals with you know %HESITATION cross disciplinary or cross cultural interpretations of key terms and so for example like empathy or compassion have with respect to your specific question %HESITATION in I've been involved in a research and compassion at Stanford at under the the stand for the equivalent of
00:30:53several institutes that new neuroscientists should which is under the medical school and %HESITATION so we have been %HESITATION you know you interested in this topic and one of the things that I recognized early own is that %HESITATION although when we talk about compassion distance to be a real
00:31:14very broad consensus across not just Buddhism and science but also between the devils contemplative traditions like Christianity and others and science and psychology M. basically this seems to be an understanding that compassion involves some awareness of suffering in need of the other have compassion involves some kind of
00:31:36sense of courage or willingness to do something to relieve that action involves some kind of motivation or wish to see that you know the other person about the being be free of pain so on that rolled understanding of compassion distance to be an amazing convergence now when it
00:31:56comes to then unpacking you know what what are the individual subcomponents then clearly there are some differences for example and particularly the kind of the developmental pot that would lead to the arising of compassion because compassion is a very complex mental state in over there is the emotional
00:32:15component there's a motivational comport and so on so when you try to unpack it there is that the issues of the supplements then there's the question of how do you understand the trajectory of the development of the final culmination if you want to get off something of coming
00:32:31up is compassion then of course empathy comes in that picture now interestingly the way in which what we call empathy is conceptualize seem to be different between the way scientists take this and with the police understand it for them and even in the signs %HESITATION was kind of
00:32:50you know surprised to read that if in fact the usage of the term empathy is fairly recent something like early twentieth century or something %HESITATION comes from the German word that I don't remember but %HESITATION have but in the in the Buddhist tradition %HESITATION it did that the
00:33:06components individual components the compassion I really seem to be %HESITATION at there's a key term which is used cold %HESITATION a year and it's very difficult to translate and the warm eighties state of mind that has this empathic quality but that also values that other so and and
00:33:28it is said that the more you won't you have for someone the more you are the more you will feel unbearable when you see that I'm the person suffer so what this way of conceptualizing empathy seems to suggest he's really taking connection to be the key point so
00:33:47whether it is through of course and a cute suffering makes establishes a connection very powerfully even a stranger in in in agony we're able to reach out and feel for that person but in order to reach out for someone who has problems of finance or marriage issues or
00:34:05whatever then it's tougher because you need to kind of use your you know the front quarter in a frontal cortex to think through this to be able to get to that in again here Buddhist would argue the cuties the connection you know you need to make that connection
00:34:20to be able to feel for that other person so Buddhism tends to use not so much the language of empathy which is more emotional residents but more the language of connection citizens to be some different maybe professor Thurman you want to add something I know are just trying
00:34:36to hear what he was saying whatever with which I very much agree all right if you know what I would like only add would be that of the compassion concept in Buddhism is very interconnected with the wisdom concept and the wisdom concept has to do with the with
00:34:53the being open to some sort of resilience of flexibility of identity and I said I was very interested in you said that that which inhibits the overload emotional overload like pure overload or something is the same thing that can inhibit empathy because our they say that if you
00:35:12have the complete wisdom of selfishness they often say wisdom of emptiness or selfishness which they consider the nature of reality which is often misunderstood as meeting some sort of of awareness that you don't exist or that you're not there something which is wrong it only means that you're
00:35:28you're not there in some sort of absolute fixed identity apart from other things so wisdom is intended analytically and meditation only to erode that feeling of absolute separateness and therefore open the sensitivity and that's why they say wisdom is compassion commission is with them because the more that's
00:35:48open Finnemore the feelings of others automatically or mere reading you were feeling and %HESITATION you you react to their pain as if it was yours sort of involuntarily actually almost and does so they're there for the if you the more rigid your sense of identity and the more
00:36:04insecure you are about your sense of identity and close in on yourself than the less you will feel other then I think we would save mode correct me if I'm wrong and I consider him the expert on these itself more about this but the business about autism is
00:36:19the way the person understand it is not that a person is insufficient sense of self but their sense of self is too rigid and to close in on itself and therefore in a way they have difficult they they're scared to there are they're unable to open to sort
00:36:34of sharing that you know the the relations with others in a certain way so the clothes off and then that would cut off I would think that would come I would say I'm interested in the brain studies people without difficulty would have less ability to %HESITATION to our
00:36:51to feel the feelings of others because they're so close in on themselves your description sounds a little bit more like a narcissism then to autism in in the developmental disorder sense because that that's it it's a very particular kind of disorder that starts early in life I think
00:37:07that it sounds like you're describing worthy of the more adult or well formed personality who overtime closes in close as more and more and becomes disconnected as you as you say from from others but time but I was struck because it sounds like what you're suggesting is %HESITATION
00:37:24in in the meditative way of dealing with that is in a sense to to challenge the suppression mechanisms that yet that we talk about an end to to slowly break those down and allow the the more on a fundamental aspects of our of our our brains that that
00:37:42do feel that that are meant to feel that way give that expression so to speak by by lifting the suppression road and I would think in more in general in the broadest sense the role of the mind is so important in Buddhism in creating the brain actually the
00:37:58the the previous life idea of Buddhism is very important for example they say we achieve human life form by having been an ethical in previous lives you know and they say that from Essex but when we were at lower animals like we were champs is something we'd personally
00:38:14is way they would see it we were the more ethical chant meaning and what they mean by the goal is that we are more aware of the impact of our thoughts and actions on others so therefore as all mammals are more empathic with the younger inside the body
00:38:27so that the self other boundary is both a bridge at least in the female version add that males are not quite sure what that's all about you know as you know Adam so so therefore from that point of view that the ability to be open and to have
00:38:44the mayor neurons and have the brain that is sensitive and that way I liked what doctor white brown said how that's a layer that comes in with mammals the the the limbic layer over the that primitive brain because that's with bullets would agree with that but it was
00:38:56they just located on a time line of an individual's continuity in previous lives so that therefore when you're reborn as a human then your you have these great much greater degree of openness and empathy because you're empathetic interaction with other beings has predispose you to be able to
00:39:13have that kind of embodiment of what is with the mind interacting with physical form in that way over in individuals continuum of life which is a very radical rightly I think %HESITATION certainly of the scientists would agree that in each of us there is this %HESITATION development which
00:39:31engages the biology and the experience and not show it into thinking yet but we were once champs no doubt back back a long way %HESITATION there is that long before dawn with %HESITATION for for those of you who remember your your studies of the enlightenment at the university
00:39:51%HESITATION we were beginning to piece together the same sort of thing in the philosophy of David Hume and Adam Smith and other things that we've forgotten the whole concept of moral sentiments which in fact involved in if you leave out the sense of the ontology of individuals coming
00:40:08from way back I think it works out to be very similar to what we're talking about now sense of empathy but we will come back to these questions let us move on to another higher function of the human brain %HESITATION creativity %HESITATION and we will hear from doctor
00:40:28Robert builder who is the Tenenbaum professor family professor of creativity at the institute adult builder has a broad range of interests and experience and accomplishments at two he came to us from the east coast we were fortunate to drag him west to the school %HESITATION and came west
00:40:54%HESITATION brought mainly by his wife I might add about terms that we would go and we were glad for it he taught at Columbia and other times time another prestigious universities in the east before he came to this great place so he will tell us a little bit
00:41:10about his concepts of creativity has over the last few years built an extraordinary understanding not only of the biology but also of the subjective understanding of %HESITATION creativity human creativity so Bob what you tell us what you have to tell us thank you Peter was a great honor
00:41:29to be able to be here as part of the symposium and to have a chance to talk as an academic about creativity %HESITATION and how to balance flexibility of stability %HESITATION and together with our %HESITATION %HESITATION panels panelists representing the left and right hemispheres of %HESITATION we have
00:41:46an enormous opportunity for progress I mean I'm the luckiest person in the world because I am able to work in the Tenenbaum center for the biology of creativity %HESITATION %HESITATION founded to buy a or generous benefactor michaeli Tenenbaum who you see to the right of your slide in
00:42:04here in the center we have an amazing opportunity to study molecular cellular systems and cognitive mechanisms to foster creativity and hope to advance application of these principles but to promote health and well being been so it's a great opportunity able discuss some of these ideas with you I
00:42:21think we share many common goals %HESITATION when we started eight years ago in deciding what to do in a center for the biology of creativity we have some fundamental problems because most of us scientists had never spent much time studying the topic on is not something that the
00:42:37national institutes of health %HESITATION spends a lot of time focusing on and so we gather to determine first how to define this topic and as it turns out most definitions of creativity hinge on a duality of concepts one of which is novelty that which is produced must be
00:42:55new with respect to what went before but it must also be useful is not every new thing that is considered a creative thing so this tension between the novelty and utility %HESITATION reflects a kind of a balance that I think has been captured also by some %HESITATION chaos
00:43:10theorists and %HESITATION people such as store Calhoun have referred to this state at the edge of chaos as being that boundary condition in which %HESITATION %HESITATION chaotic entropy a complete randomness unpredictability is balanced by a cohesion and forces that bring that back together I think it's at that
00:43:29age of chaos where a true creativity emerges and our questions are well how can we figure this out scientifically and study this as as a brain process but before getting there it's worth I think %HESITATION citing the venerable history of these kinds of dualities and up one of
00:43:45my favorite depictions of this is %HESITATION Yates a depiction of the Joe hires %HESITATION which he wrote about in the vision this is an incredible scheme where %HESITATION of there's a balance of external and internal forces a balance of physical and spiritual %HESITATION spaces and %HESITATION %HESITATION a
00:44:02balance of of moral and aesthetic objectives %HESITATION all woven together in an incredibly elaborate mystical neurologic tradition which completely baffles me the more I might add %HESITATION I think most of the audience as many people are more familiar with the the the Taoist a symbol of unity Yang
00:44:21which exemplifies light dark night date sun moon a balance of of many forces but I was struck by how a proceeding that by well over a thousand years is the Tibetan Buddhist symbol of the eternal months and my understanding from my limited reading is that that itself comes
00:44:40from another symbol the naga which represents the in in %HESITATION in twining of two snakes too serpens %HESITATION and there a couple of key things one is the balance that's reflected in the eternal not itself which I'll come back to it but the other is that it does
00:44:56not have beginning or end which I think is particularly salient when we consider the brain theories of creativity and now I'm it's funny that Peter said I was coming towards the light and coming to California because he knew that I had the slide which is what I think
00:45:11is one of our first editions of a creative creature %HESITATION this is that what you call a dyno flagyl which they called that because he's got the little tail at the end that's what he does for a living is is beat that tale %HESITATION and %HESITATION the really
00:45:26cool thing about these guys is that they %HESITATION isolation com guys because they have no sex say that informally %HESITATION but %HESITATION they have little sensors on the front end of the animal that detects light and when not light when when the light is hitting the top of
00:45:42the beast %HESITATION it drives a tail harder so he goes towards the light showing what we call photo taxes if he on happens to be beaten by waves and this has has turns away from the light is still stops until the waves can then reoriented so here's a
00:45:59creature that with the very simple membrane structure is able to take an input and convert that into a meaningful output and my argument is that the human brain represent successive layers of evolution on top of this fundamental scheme and it's this fundamental distinction between input and output and
00:46:19does all try to connect that to flexibility instability that is a fundamental elaboration human brain that enables a creative cognition doctor why browse also introduced the concept of the tri Yun brain and I happen to have a little picture of that where we can see the reptilian brain
00:46:36in the center surrounded by a mammalian brain at which some of these %HESITATION %HESITATION functions such as empathy began to emerge we all know the mammals do not eat their offspring this is a really good thing about me that we appreciate about them rush hour and reptiles do
00:46:53in contrast is this higher level of brain that inhibits the %HESITATION did the tendency to eat one's offspring and then ultimately the primate brains laid on top of that to douse with even greater capacities and indeed I'm we've now had a a billion years and a hundred billion
00:47:09cells added on to that fundamental scheme of the %HESITATION the Dino flatulence but what we can see in the slides %HESITATION in the beautiful pictures of the brains on the right on the process of evolution has endowed us with this incredible expansion you can see in yellow of
00:47:24the frontal lobes and also a certain of the posterior parts of the brain which enable us not only to perform enormous increases the integration of incoming sensory stimuli a but also to elaborate the plans for action into quite %HESITATION dramatic sequences except for sequencing of projectors which is
00:47:48subject to other higher forces altogether the coming back to the duality that represent is represented in the brain on there's a fascinating sort of work that goes down to the basic cellular level and shows that this fundamental duality that was in the flatulence is also represented in the
00:48:06entire evolution of the human neocortex on and I just listed %HESITATION some of the qualities that each one of these major divisions has they are named arctic for tax and palea cortex but that's only useful for impressing people at cocktail parties to come up with those fancy names
00:48:23like market for Texas cortex but basically one of them is an output oriented system that governs our internal plans for action governs our own wheeled intentions it's proactive it governs stability helps to enforce redundancy of our actions it generates predictable and useful sequences of action in contrast appellate
00:48:43court taxes involved it from its original input oriented systems it involves external guidance of our actions so their actions can be responsive to stimuli coming in from the external world and it's reactive flexible fields in novelty and unpredictability into our response repertoire which we're very lucky here we
00:49:07heard earlier that said Dr book timers the walking flew straight chair and walking through stir a great student of the brain and of the development of the frontal lobes in particular has elaborated %HESITATION a schema that that follows this very neatly and describes a hierarchical organization this development
00:49:23in layers but still that governs of a primitive perception action cycles that bounces of stability and flexibility on where the %HESITATION frontal read the parts that are %HESITATION here referred to as executive memory %HESITATION serve as the stabilizing force %HESITATION over of the posterior %HESITATION input centers where
00:49:45%HESITATION the processes of novelty %HESITATION %HESITATION impinge on our our senses and what we can see them there we go loops try to come up with a very simple depiction of this ongoing cycle and like the eternal mocked we can think of the process of cognitive functioning in
00:50:05terms of this action perception cycle where from any particular plan we proceed to a state of action the perception of novel inputs may cause us to shift and revise our plans but then there are these brain systems that serve to stabilize the new action plan and then the
00:50:20cycle continues in new and amazing thing about this is that this cycle occurs three times each second in everyone of us and so it's quite interesting that we can follow the patterns of electrical activity in the brain about each one of the stages that takes place what happens
00:50:37when we speak perceive novel input is there's a dramatic shift so this is essentially the yen of the %HESITATION action perception cycle %HESITATION where we shift and revise our plans and then once we identify new plan that's relevant to solving the problems at hand that we stabilize that
00:50:52new action plan and that's where this other system kicks in to help to stabilize our cognitive functions just for clarity how did you measure what do you mean that it happened three times every second but if you look at the minute that the brain levels that you see
00:51:07yes it's been now documented using %HESITATION both electrodes on within the brain and also monitoring electrical activity from the scalp %HESITATION that you can see the process the unfolding of these perceptual processes the recognition and processing of that to determine whether the %HESITATION incoming information is new enough
00:51:29to change what you're doing or is it what you expected already Angelus go on to the next cycle and you can see all this unfolding in brain waves that occur over the course of three hundred four hundred milliseconds this is all due to the conscious level well there's
00:51:43a question about when we can consciousness of that %HESITATION %HESITATION %HESITATION process actually emerges but %HESITATION yet that could be another hour and so this action cycle goes on %HESITATION repeatedly in the course of %HESITATION cognition and %HESITATION that that brings me to %HESITATION terrible how can we
00:52:05study the scientifically and the center for the biology of creativity and what we've done in order to study this scientifically to make it more attractive more focus on three main themes which include generation memory and innovation like to give you just a few months really quick examples what
00:52:22those are of course all of these %HESITATION emerge and are driven by our fundamental emotional core %HESITATION and and this photo reptilian complex that is deep within all of us %HESITATION but to %HESITATION describe %HESITATION some of these %HESITATION components of creative cognition we believe that generation is
00:52:43one of the key elements of that it's interesting to most creative products come from people who generate the most products now that's the best predictor of creativity is how many things are done and in that context to consider %HESITATION Malcolm Gladwell strips of ten thousand hours be needed
00:52:58to achieve world confidence in any area but we have somebody in our group Stephanie white has been studying the entire molecular sequence of how this process of directivity on Fulton songbirds who are at the time of puberty beginning to sing novel tunes in order to attract mates and
00:53:15she's use this to be able to uncover the genes that control that the brain regions in which the molecules are turned on off at this particular time giving us insights into that process %HESITATION in %HESITATION all species a memory in working memory is another core component to generate
00:53:31novel ideas we need to maintain those ideas in mind multiple ideas in mind and then manipulate the contents of consciousness to make new connections %HESITATION answer to it of four new concepts and we have a brilliant scientist a single soul and his colleagues have generated using molecular engineering
00:53:47smart mice mice that remember better than theirs they're calling and us we're on covering the fundamental basis of learning and memory within the brain how new connections are established how the plasticity of the brain %HESITATION is encoded in our DNA and how we may be able to develop
00:54:04new approaches to treatment based on that and finally the inhibition component is a somewhat paradoxical because most people %HESITATION that we explain this to think oh yes it's important to be creative to be disinhibited we think it's exactly the opposite what's important is to inhibit habits and go
00:54:22beyond the first thing that comes to mind to find a higher hanging fruits in the cognitive tree and %HESITATION relevant to that we have another brilliant scientist David Yonge who has recently discovered a genetic region that is critically responsible for reversal learning the ability to stop doing something
00:54:39that's been reinforced and switch to something different so if we bring all of these forces together arm a generation memory innovation and connect these fluidly to the drives an emotion that are at the core of this I I believe that this is almost a definition of what me
00:54:57how they actually sent me how is referred to as flow this %HESITATION automatic effortless but highly focused of consciousness and that the bouncing stability and flexibility is the key %HESITATION from my brain sense of of how this process unfolds involves high generative the productivity %HESITATION effortlessly flexible memory
00:55:15combination and successfully admission of intrusive habits on that that may be the key to these issues sub them with that I'm wondering %HESITATION %HESITATION how you all feel these brain themes of stability flexibility may relates to a Buddhist concepts of complementary forces and particularly his holiness is described
00:55:36certain practices a stabilizing and discursive meditation practices my wonder how these related to operate the system built in flexibility they and Hans conduct cognitive creativity for %HESITATION was generally %HESITATION and I'm I'm very happy that the parole top he sold his reference to the two forms of meditation
00:55:59one type of justice because if the other which is more of a stabilizing and %HESITATION on the surface they seem to be Kanata conf contradictory together in a few are trying to remain focused how can the new BFG discursive and that this is the tension that you see
00:56:18in a quiet kind of an articulated every now and then in the Buddha's discourse as well and in fact they are interesting polemical discourses sometimes at the reticle level within the tradition among some proponents argue that in the end it is only the stabilizing absorptive kind that is
00:56:38going to be the most important and not the same though you need the more discursive penetrating approach because in the end if understanding the nature of reality is the content of the wisdom that is could deliver it to you than it is to discursive penetrating you know included
00:56:55that you know penetrates ever deeper into understanding the reality that is going to liberate you so there is that tension but basic you know position or put you know most but is that teachers and and %HESITATION sources really seems to suggest that we need some kind of balance
00:57:13of both because without the stability that you don't have the ability to apply your mind no matter how bright you might be to the stability provides you a kind of a space in which you are able to identify the fact is that you have but without the discursive
00:57:32approach then beyond stability you don't have that creativity that you know because creativity requires an ability to see if you know of particularly with relation to wisdom at one of the key facets is an ability to have a much more encompassing perspective so that your perspective is not
00:57:53just confined one NARAL fact you able to look at it from many different angles so for example input is education we speak of four full dimensions of intelligence swift clear %HESITATION penetrating and the and the sea so the idea is to have an education system that would allow
00:58:18for the flourishing of all four so I think a you not yet I must say I was very impressed by the way in which you have gone down a very methodical approach to this whole question of creativity because sometimes and reading popular books and when we hear of
00:58:34neuroscience of creativity you get the impression the you know the scientist that just waiting there bringing in the artist letting them play kind of Mozart over and then see what goes on in the brain but I was very impressed to see if it has a lot more methodical
00:58:48and throws gentlemen you have from both of us will what's interesting because in in Buddhism are as you mentioned there are the the the these two major strands of meditative practice one that we we didn't go call concentration which is more your stability side and then the the
00:59:07%HESITATION %HESITATION the the the parking our the wisdom site which is for the flexibility side and the usual pattern would be that in developing these two strategies of practice one will first of all learn how to focus the mind in order to be able to use that focus
00:59:21and concentration has a way of of really vesti getting around the world with wisdom and CDS actually years so there there's natural process of development which usually begins with that without stability and and uses asked us to build it to help to help focus the flexibility so it
00:59:36doesn't go all over the place and we can stay focused but in some of the contemporary Theravada school such as those practice up in the northeast of Thailand there's been a kind of an interesting shift in this recently where they're at least suggested actually did these discursive meditation
00:59:53sob focused on wisdom and and investigating the world around you can actually be used in turn to develop concentration of mine because that that focus that you create in looking at your external world helped to create a kind of a focus of mine is a different features that
01:00:09concentration inwards so it's almost as if in a sense you have two different two quite different but complementary ways of thinking about how we interact with our world are we do we have a kind of an intense engagement with the world which creates focus or do we have
01:00:28a sort of detached awareness of our world which also kept in turn create flexibility police work in a kind of complementary fashion very much like what you were describing %HESITATION in your your account so I can be very illuminating in fact that the reason that she has a
01:00:43a %HESITATION cultural scientific basis for this interpretation of meditative theory was yeah there's that maybe one thing that could be as it is I follow them listen to your indication and that is that on the discursive side you could say they're also to kind that is the usual
01:01:03thing it is how much are the process and I would say you know it like Tom and she did focusing one point or critically analyzing something that's what people usually think of as the discursive take and that that that is part of the opening to the flexibility and
01:01:19resilience of identity you know by critiquing rigid notions and confining concept an opening to be able to see something further than what you expected to see and and you know all those language like selfishness and emptiness that's all related to that and it has to do is sort
01:01:34of critically breaking through false habits in some sense but then the other drivers discursive is used in that specially the Tibetans have special facility with issue it's something that we would call visualization where the person who has realized that old structures of perception are in some sense relation
01:01:54only created and there is no exact rejecting in other words to present the object doesn't sort of dictated self off of itself to the person the person is constructing it no analysing the input this instrument input is sensory input and analyzing it once they realized that then they
01:02:11begin to realize the imaginative component even an ordinary perception knows the routine eyes imagination and it becomes deeper tonight and in that context and there are there are ways of conceptualizing a new type of self image and even new type of physical form remember you see NATO in
01:02:28Tibetan art that it is very strange looking a day it is they call them you know but of forms with many arms or many faces or different you know and even sometimes male female sometimes fierce you know and what does have to do with it is is visualizing
01:02:44a different embodiment even which actually probably Gretz into the mind of the brain model of the body you know the phantom limbs thing where you have an idea that your arm is gone but you think it's still there because you have a model of your body and the
01:02:58mind so these visualization things actually disrupt or go in and work with those things and look at what kind of inter sensitivities emerge when say your visualize yourself as having a triple shoulder or something you know or even thousand of light at the home I have a look
01:03:13at this rate of thousand arm shoulder what a weird idea that might be how it would feel coming out of your heart it out of your chest what kind of chance to have back on strange so I'm just saying I mean that just an example but the idea
01:03:25that the creativity is on leased in every human being by the deconstruction of the or talk or Tom automated for sexual habits indeed condition by culture and then actually working with that released form to intensify sensitivities and intensify the reach of awareness and so on I think the
01:03:45Tibetans particularly have that but they it shows as a therapist top secret nothing to talk about it but in fact it's where it is the great it is where the neuro scientific understanding and the more some understanding in Tibetan Indo Tibetan Buddhism actually inter connected now very fascinating
01:04:02area and you made me think of it but the thing about the creativity and the and how you have to but but there's an individual in him and his architecture as well to inhibit the ordinary habits and then you could you get more mental energy toward that some
01:04:16sort of constructive thing there which is really old but I think that's very fascinating area for future research possess acting treating isn't it because I mean the the %HESITATION it sounds when you speak of this deconstruction it reminds me immediately of Brock and because so and so on
01:04:32and yet one of the first the fundamental ways in which the brain first of commands itself in the environment is to form an image of the body of course and in no way are almonds and %HESITATION whether you're standing up straight and so on yet when you deconstruct
01:04:47that as did because of another's is that how does that resonate with what how you think about it but what does that does that off the wall completely right July advocate my position as the hope was closing in on time I'm completely delighted to find as much residences
01:05:02there was I was afraid that I was seeing everything connected to everything else as in the case of vision %HESITATION that to become completely but it it really does seem that there are a number of connections that are you know quite a quite realistic %HESITATION and %HESITATION I'd
01:05:17actually had one other question maybe now yes but I don't want to take too much time but I really wonder whether it be a few minutes with us yep I think building on some of these ideas I wonder whether %HESITATION we could see brain training %HESITATION %HESITATION around
01:05:35these qualities on based on contemplative sciences %HESITATION to enhance this %HESITATION interplay of stability flexibility %HESITATION and whether these may be able to foster the development of creative thoughts generative eighty %HESITATION enhance our memory and to inhibit eventual thoughts actions which are at the root of many of
01:05:52the mental disorders that we face %HESITATION and could be I think a key to a lot of the increased human well being %HESITATION which were of interest this amounts to to and promoting so I I think what they're dead one high jumper who used to be in the
01:06:06Olympics who are of a very tall I think this American guy with the reddish hair and he used to stand at the starting line before going to the high jump it I don't remember you might you might even go like this with his head and then we go
01:06:19like this so he would be visualizing himself getting they're going over that thing without knocking at that you know the poll without knocking down you remember that hello I forget his name practice in non in athletic training to do a complete visualization of what they want to do
01:06:33exactly where and that's that's the kind of ordinary kind of seeing that connects to the thing that the defendants have refined so hugely and I've always thought of my wife happens to love and I I've gotten to like to visit ice skating competitions you know and like a
01:06:47quadruple axles if you can imagine yourself a usually spending right down and landing safely a real for all over the place you know they never have that we have to do it to the degree where you can be feel very confident when you go into such a jump
01:07:02and I think what is meditative training does have the message that work on this and that and then it's a good future thing is a not that I don't think any of us professors are going to do any device it's because of our visualization problems lack of skill
01:07:17or otherwise one of the things about %HESITATION %HESITATION you know this this engagement this conversation but and there were signs on the one side and I would include clinical signs as well on the one side and it is tradition on the other is that %HESITATION this seems to
01:07:36be at least the potential through this collaboration to look at some of the practices that exist in the traditional setting for example in in Buddhism and it's not just you need to put some in many of the interpretations like in China tradition and Hindu tradition and in the
01:07:55yoga tradition the down the tradition that it's it's a sort of a qualm currency at least in the in a spiritual context then there was a recognition that %HESITATION you know many of the qualities of the mind that we have can be an ounce through deliberate cultivation and
01:08:16in fact the word that is used to translate it the that the English word meditation you know the origin of what it is that it is supposed to be a translation all at in Sanskrit it's often on which means cultivation and the Tibetan Buddhism comb which means familiarity
01:08:34there is a sort of a notion that you know meditation is nothing but a kind of a discipline that allows individuals to cultivate certain habits or certain way of thinking more cities will be so that was how generally it was understood and and part of that cultivation would
01:08:55also even with full learning how to you know and on the other side habits of this is that the division and the reversal running comes in and and lost part of that you know there is that for example in the Buddhist tradition there is a very article well
01:09:11articulated too real transmission transformation of course in contemporanea response and which you would use the language of the real plasticity of course but is it didn't have a clue about brains out but it did have some understanding of how the process of transformation office and it's all based
01:09:30on phenomenology and psychology %HESITATION and it's primarily based on first person introspection so there was this understanding of that you no one can take a particular state of mind and fool cultivation can unlearn set and happy jewel patents and learn new ways of thinking that was the basic
01:09:53idea and part of that also involve %HESITATION you know learning how to maintain the stability of your mind through some of the training learning how to apply your mind through Boston in which the discursive at approach and then visualization practice is this involves a combination of both and
01:10:14part of that a large part of the Tibetan Buddhist traditional practice also involves creating a kind of a a sense of spaciousness and because they keep one of the Salian idea is that you know they need to one needs to develop a sense of felt sense of freedom
01:10:35to have to allow all this mental cultivation to take this because otherwise if we have stock in our own all happy chill will be who never going to progress so that the species and part of that old it's not explicitly articulated oligarchy involves learning how not to be
01:10:55self conscious and being able to be self aware that but not self conscious and that I think I mean I I don't know if there is any new rules scientific kind of you know %HESITATION evidence to suggest one could make such a distinction but because of the moments
01:11:13of consciousness arises there is that inefficient and and everything I mean you know as a as an interpreter enough looking for excellence in front of thousands of people I can know that you know for example specially if he's getting a given a formal protest lecture sometimes he goes
01:11:28on for quite a while then I get nervous and that and then when I get nervous and then I you know and you can see how the mind sort of starts getting into this loop you know than self consciously you become more self conscious self conscious make you
01:11:43more hesitant the whole process so I think that a large part of the effect of the meditation has is to really allow you to be self love and without being self conscious and to have that kind of courageous space and so I I would so maybe you have
01:12:04the right I would say is that these phrases dynamic interplay of stability and flexibility and then the other one generative Aegean has never inhibit it sounds like a description of his hole in his behavior so it's it it's a sign that those practices have infected able him to
01:12:21develop this kind of flexibility and stability at one of the amazing things I've always felt about his whole it is in relation to some other group that I have known is his facts about what I would call flexibility of identity you know he can be an original very
01:12:36news site of being a movie no being about your master you know and he is like initiating some I've done something in whatever he does it and his gestures are very very regal and magnificent actually has a very marvelous presence and then he's walking out and he's tickling
01:12:52the security guy petting the dog at his side totally normal and completely unassuming and totally with you you know I mean he's got some sort of grand figure so he has no pump business and you know retention I do I just thought we should mention him is very
01:13:08lacking his presence as a proof of how all these things actually do work and we don't know really what he would say here but he he is that he's a dynamic interplay or of stability and flexibility for sure so he's with us well this couldn't be a better
01:13:30entree actually to to a loss to them presentation %HESITATION by Lobsang rampa Kay who is a research professor in the in the institute and was for many years some ten fifteen years a Buddhist monk himself he was born into that and %HESITATION has subsequently %HESITATION done many things
01:13:59including has a PhD in psychology and he is actually the architect of this of this afternoon symposium he was the one who put it together and conceived of how the progression would occur around songs that we owe him a great debt but in addition he has %HESITATION is
01:14:19going to bring us this afternoon a very interesting I think Kim culmination to what you've been hearing if we think of this in my little metaphor of the beginning of the brain %HESITATION it as you go forward in the brain remember the perception action cycles what you perceive
01:14:34what comes in the back of your head and what you act upon is at the front of your head so if you think of these and the two hemispheres the further you go forward in fact the more complex it gets and that's the piece the frontal lobe of
01:14:49eventually begins to not only monitor what's going on constantly in the world but also is has the capacity to inhibit as we were just talking about old habits such that you can have a creative aha moment man in the middle of course as I've mentioned briefly earlier sits
01:15:08the corpus callosum which is you'll be glad to have much larger in women than it is in men %HESITATION city if I happen to represent the code was closing which is nothing more than a than a collection of fibres that go back and forth and sort of get
01:15:22everybody talking which I guess the metaphor hangs there so %HESITATION so anyway %HESITATION I'm saying is going to tell us some interesting things I think about the way in which as we were hearing %HESITATION adopt him hot speak about just now where the efforts of of focus for
01:15:48broadening of focus becomes actually very critical in terms of subject of anxiety as in the middle of your I work with the Dalai Lama when he's rambling on and you're thinking how am I going to keep all this together and you start getting anxious then unfortunately the translation
01:16:07begins to stumble as you were saying Sir %HESITATION I think %HESITATION %HESITATION love sense going to tell us all about that thank you Sir are so let me first begin very briefly draw explain how I go to this research of I've been treating aids anxiety patients for a
01:16:29while and in the course of that %HESITATION I became interested in starting the role of attention from a western cognitive science perspective and that was because of two major reasons the first reason was that there was a huge body of literature which showed that the selective attention is
01:16:54a significant role in the cause of anxiety and secondly western cognitive interventions are do not directly treat our selective attention so our let me first say that %HESITATION explain what we mean by selective attention it simply ready for us to %HESITATION when reactions we tend to narrowly focus
01:17:21on that threat at the cost of awareness of everything else argues the brain to give you a bit %HESITATION brief but better explanation of how are selective attention are selective attention all works to all %HESITATION creating society and now when you visually see a threatening stimuli are the
01:17:49information is passed through the ana Dalmas and privately perceptually process dented by the visual cortex and at the same time are because the threat is perceived as imminent it is immediately transferred from the trial elements to the Meg delighted to fear center and that in turn transfers the
01:18:17information obviously to the most of primal state fair at the feel of where the flight and the flight response is activated however the cost of that is the information is not transferred to the thinking part of the pre which is in the front and as a result the
01:18:38threat information is generally not processed L. by all analyzed so that appropriate response would be a engage status as it's normally done now that we have a basic idea of follow on %HESITATION imminent threat effects saw plays out on let's talk about looks like the slide is dark
01:19:10dark read them out yes I will of in general are really in our lives anxieties more constant and insidious and that is because anxiety TV are concerned about anxiety comes in the form of concerns are that have not yet all could such as jobs for instance in these
01:19:34days and times many of us may be worried about where the real have our jobs in the next year or so the Dow host of other factors that could that we may be concerned about now that we have a general idea of how selective attention darkly going down
01:19:54actually contributes to its anxiety are let's start didn't think about what is the possible solution %HESITATION since in selective attention involves narrowing of attention the obvious answer would be why not broaden at attention I as a possible solution and this is particularly important in the context of the
01:20:20fact that it is over twenty years of research which shows that broadening of attention of by means of positive out affect all by means of using a skill based strategies are is associated to walk away with a wide range of perceptual and cognitive refined skills for instance broadening
01:20:46of attention isn't directly associated with increased perceptual and mental flexibility to take a common example if you think about how you became our exposure of when you are you know when you become expedience hive a you can ought you can are concurrently focus on the full of front
01:21:08of the room while through broadening of attention monitor others are because in adjoining leads another benefit that research has shown is increase our problem solved solving abilities as a result of broadening of retention then increasing creativity are there are a lot of quite a few tests which shows
01:21:32that are people who've brought in then attention I able to fall multiple word associations to a neutral work as compared to those who are have not done so and other examples of benefits are increased positive emotions such as empathy and compassion however what we found that is what
01:21:58I found was that there are new studies that directly our study the effect of broadening of attention on threat in people with high anxiety so we decided to %HESITATION do those studies ourselves now the first thing obvious question was we had to determine how do we %HESITATION activity
01:22:20broadening of attention you know anxious subjects now dot two ways you can are activated broadening of attention one is one distract our means by which a which do not require the training and then the other one is means by which %HESITATION training is involved are now let me
01:22:46just go back to this of previous slide up some of you could have chosen positive emotions as a as a first choice but obviously up positive emotions or is something that anxious people have difficulty expediency and sustaining so we therefore Jules so more appropriate are non trading strategy
01:23:14which is relaxation which I'll have more to say about our lead to on it during the presentation are the second thing we had to address was well let's see religion might keep the second thing I the nine the second thing our view a concern of the active or
01:23:40determine was how to select are acceptable and recognize that measures to determine whether a broadening of attention all could soon be I initially chose of you chose to means to do so at that is validated in the literature the first one is a simpler way to measure broadening
01:24:05of attention we used a single independent object in terms of its global and local features and so we had a subject first are look at a large each made out of small ages all esses are and then ask them to focus on the logic of component dialogic and
01:24:34global future of the IT law letter while ignoring the small and then as quickly as possible type and other relevant key on the keyboard as soon as they see the large electric fence for us subsequently did did the same thing but this time the focus on the small
01:24:54letter %HESITATION ignoring the large letters now that many studies which show that the general in the general population are people tend to %HESITATION see the global future much faster than the smaller features on the other hand study shows that people with high anxiety %HESITATION do the reverse the
01:25:16perceived a small act as before are the lots lettuce now the V. I you see and okay this is the second our way of measuring of broadening of attention which is gaining more prominence and what it does is it takes multiple independent objects and distributes it over space
01:25:45of and what we did in our case this is a actually a political ally developed for %HESITATION for a specific reason which I'll explain later out the frontal all Castro object of war is different faces angry use of %HESITATION happy and neutral faces which represented very fast and
01:26:12the task accounting task was whenever DC one of the two relevant scripts are below do what to type that eleven key as quickly as possible while at the same time %HESITATION concurrently a digital one of a number which appear either to the right or to the left enough
01:26:33to six consecutive trials them no space would come that they would have to record as accurately as the group this sequence of the numbers they remembered now this is because obviously as many of you may know comes from the digit span of tester which is designed to a
01:26:52measure short term intentions and this is important because later when I describe a mindfulness up on I want to show that a since mindfulness is a %HESITATION actress of recollection as well %HESITATION therefore it would be good to have this %HESITATION a short term measure now let me
01:27:18explain what we did a particularly the relaxation technique what we did of was first to use the knowledge about the role of distance between the object and the subject and %HESITATION if a falling star what has been found is that distance plays a big role hiding out in
01:27:42the contraction of the lenses of the ice and as well as the expansion of both of which are each of which are associated with narrowing and %HESITATION a broadening of the field of attention so for instance if you take the tip of your tongue of before and %HESITATION
01:28:01and move it very close to your eyes the closer you move it it will block your vision of a much larger object but as soon as you begin to move your time a week and create distance that large large object would become visible so we took advantage of
01:28:18that information and manipulated distance in conducting these tests then in addition to that we had a subsequent are guided relaxation which involved relaxing the facial muscles particularly %HESITATION indirectly the muscles around the eyes there's some suggestion that if you relax the mind muscles of the eyes Denny's relaxes
01:28:42the muscles that control the lenses of the eyes and that could be a facility expansion of the lands which is associated with broadening of attention what did we find be found that in the first major of broadening of the attentions of the subjects of processed and shipped subject
01:29:04process the global village is much faster of in the smaller letters and that in the second major reform that most of this subject who had received a relaxation technique actually increase the correct our recollections of numbers more than those who had not received a relaxation %HESITATION intervention however
01:29:32%HESITATION however this non training base relaxation on has one shot coming which is it broadens attention only for a brief period of time soul devil we decided to %HESITATION the slopes and we decided to create %HESITATION create two types of skills training bees star interventions one is a
01:30:02computerized of a skills training visual skills training to broaden attention and the other one is a mental skills training so who moved to the mall far relevant to our discussion here of our talk about the mental skills training are we look at the number of potential mental skills
01:30:24training and settled on mindfulness why did we do that we get that close mindfulness of a skilled training of met three criteria very important criteria first are particularly in relationship to anxiety since anxiety is a cognitive and affective related disorders it was very important to find a mental
01:30:50skills training that directly targeted not only just bodily sensations but also thoughts and feelings and %HESITATION we found that the classical form of mindfulness which is called the fall of foundations of mindfulness but not the current popular forms of mind from this that is being widely talked and
01:31:15used in research today met this criteria our second criteria that does some of the mindfulness based on a mental skill training met which is the most important criteria is it seems to be congruent with what is called the attention a little Curie which is probably one of the
01:31:37most validated reliably validated of us functions of attention particularly the functions of a tension relating to how attention can be used and distributed %HESITATION and basically what the attention lord receive is very simple and very well validate it simply says that if the focal pass or the object
01:32:05I is not demanding that it would only require a certain amount of our limited attention and resources and the rest will be freed for per for loneliness however if that tension load is demanding and all of that change I mean if that to instill doubt all focal task
01:32:24is demanding all of their traditional resources would be captured by it and your group on not be available of welfare for a %HESITATION processing except in one case which is if you are develop mastery of the focal tax in that case then what happens that mastery of the
01:32:45full QuickTime this allows you to the end of our lives of free up some of the attention was now you can train for act accessing better from information %HESITATION mindfulness training of specifically the four foundations of mindfulness appears to me that are very very important criteria how does
01:33:08it do that it for us to just to reinforce stained of full color tension are adequately ill which allows you to master of your process is not are your knowledge about that objects sufficiently enough rabbi then you can are free up some of the attention then %HESITATION use
01:33:30it to broaden our attention which as we've previously shown and help with greater mental flexibility and creativity now what is the significance of our at the at the floor our study are from a western called major perspective too of mindfulness research and application but before I've mentioned that
01:33:59our or talk about that on I just like to mention that the first important thing for us was to make sure that the classical forms of mindfulness did actually teach focal and %HESITATION broadening of attention that was something we had to first come from and then what I
01:34:19did was look at law are due to a shark actually research look at how mindfulness was being taught both by western art teachers here in this country and then in easy are courting and eastern teaches particularly from the terror of art in our tradition which is %HESITATION %HESITATION
01:34:39which %HESITATION from which engages in this part of this type of problem meditative practice what I found was actually are %HESITATION %HESITATION of quite confusing him out in the actual practice and how it was stopped attention us some appear to be talking about mindfulness as a focal attention
01:35:04some appear to be talking about mindfulness and %HESITATION broadening of attention all what they called a witness and being you are however using it in team in our car interchangeably so then I decided to go to the origin of decks earliest text which actually teach the mindfulness practice
01:35:27called set the button on our auction sutras and I went through the most reliable translation and there I found evidence of that the Buddha actually he was teaching the use of focal and broadening of attention and that was the attention that the book the a list associating with
01:35:50mindfulness not focused attention not for collecting shin %HESITATION so followed by subsequent broadening of attention but the car concurrent use was the main purpose of developing mind from this this allowed us to move up probably for the first time to have it adequate evidence to suggest that broadening
01:36:16Vocalion broadening out attention is a central mechanism off mindfulness why is this important del over a thousand up research papers on mindfulness at this time however we have not been able to identify a reliable mechanism of mindfulness and as we all know the call or the key part
01:36:42of research is to at some point be able to grow up demonstrate mechanism thank you yes so I may I just conclude without absolutely I thought I thought you had concluded excuse me I just have this is the last segment so and so or what does this say
01:37:01about the conclusion like I'd like to propose is that this line of research provides exciting possibilities most one important one is it enables straw further to advance further the study of broadening of attention how by using what is called contextual three which is the emerging field in the
01:37:26field of attentional study which allows us to look at referral information that can be accessed and how that can be used to up more efficiently process focal information such as focal threatening stimuli in attention in a more global sense %HESITATION mindfulness bisque our mental skills training in broad
01:37:50enough attention can be applied to a wide range of human learning and behavior activities and finally ID at this kind of %HESITATION research that we have been doing this I think is a quote a sample example of facilitating cross cultural studies by identifying a shared relevant eighty of
01:38:14studies such as attention and by taking the best of our attention up that is richly argument of X. doubtless why visual attention of studies invest in cognitive science and then in our day in the attention of from internal mental %HESITATION practices that the Buddhist bring to the table
01:38:41can provide %HESITATION in Richmond in a bi directional with thank you yes thank you I think I think that's %HESITATION that's actually the lesson here is that %HESITATION we do see this confluence of for example %HESITATION Lobsang has being responsible for the development of a training program for
01:39:04professionals in mindfulness %HESITATION awareness and %HESITATION would sue Smalley who is one of our faculty members at the institute and with the support of the several family establish the mindfulness awareness research center sometime ago and that now has provided programs throughout the university natural also at something called
01:39:27the UCLA Commons which is a similar program %HESITATION just off the street and a prominent on in %HESITATION the Santa Monica area right urge you to take a look at that and also at the %HESITATION the hammer out center down here of the UCLA hearts art center they're
01:39:47also going on so I think here you see a practical confluences I said of the of the two things when we get anxious and of course there's plenty of room to do that involved in the modern world %HESITATION the ability of the frontal cortex to change that into
01:40:03a way where you can expand your understanding of the world and decrease that focus then the anxiety goes away and suddenly you back in control of your life which is I think the whole %HESITATION thesis here Sir that makes sense yeah I'm very partial to the British accent
01:40:32this is the good thing about being a migrant in America with British accent as if everybody confuses it with intelligence he said in this %HESITATION thank you so much for your presentation to a regular %HESITATION I was particularly struck by the old comment that %HESITATION you know %HESITATION
01:40:59they have the popular mindfulness training that's out there which is %HESITATION has a a huge %HESITATION attention in the in the in the press kind of you know laugh academic journals clinical particularly in the case of political domain as well as the public journals as well %HESITATION that
01:41:18you felt you felt that the the program the actual training that was the key ingredient or content of that particular practice was not really suited for you all the thing that you were looking at a broadening of the tension practice and and that led you to choose the
01:41:43classical forms of mindfulness training and and so and and and I'm very very pleased by this because this shows at a certain diverse city in the actual mindfulness recess is one of the things that has worried me and this is actually one of the dangers of this kind
01:42:01of collaboration is that if we don't you know when things when there's a success everybody jumps on the bandwagon and then the you know down the line they may be a researcher who was supposedly in the study the effect of mindfulness and not understanding you know the outcome
01:42:20that comes from mine for this but doesn't have a clue what mindfulness is and then you know does the lip service of just simply giving a two line definition which is probably taken from someone else's third person kind of in a full fifty persons description and this has
01:42:35worried me a lot and and in fact I often have conversations with key people in the mind from this research community and then I remember %HESITATION you know expressing the concern that when we use terms like mine for messages although it is English we're now using that term
01:42:55to refer to a particular concept that is that as a rule elsewhere other than European you know not listed European tradition so there needs to be some recognition of that and so I am in fact suggested that people who are doing research from the purple of mindfulness should
01:43:16whenever this a you know this is the effect of mindfulness practice they should say mindfulness in the sense of ambience all be more specific mindfulness as defined in the NB as I which is the public practice mindfulness based stress reduction program which has had a huge clinical research
01:43:35so I have suggested to them so that you know in the in the in the Buddhist tradition we use deliberately use terms like mine from this %HESITATION and compassion but to some extent to refer not only to a particular formal practice but also to a state of mind
01:43:57but also to a faculty in the case of salty water Smith the which is the Sanskrit word is Smitty in Hollywood is sucky and Tibetan Buddhist temple it's a very complex term which is sometimes used in that kind of a naturalistic sense of a faculty that we possess
01:44:17where it its role is to allow us to register something for the week and we have a recall to the world mindfulness is very closely tied to re collection and retention so what happens is that as these things become very popular people start to redefine them and then
01:44:38all that complex connections get the most out so I'm very happy to %HESITATION this this particular mindfulness training that you offering is based on the classical training and I would strongly encourage now that you have a sense that yeah on mindfulness and awareness of the for my opponents
01:44:58of when to really bring to get that you know people in the mindfulness research community you know neuroscientist clinical sites in a particularly for those in the clinical domain so that at least there is a clarity in what we are talking about because you know if your point
01:45:15that there's no brain mechanism that has been associated with what is called as the mind for being mindful then we have a problem at least from the scientific point of view you know so you know that's why having the definitions and and the you know you pointed out
01:45:32when you weigh in bargain with this new scientific study of creativity unit have a some handle the concept for the you know you start trying to understand how do we define this phenomena to send a plaster mindfulness I would strongly urge you and actually request to to bring
01:45:52together enough people from all over the country and and from Europe as well because mindfulness has a long research data as well so that they could be much greater clarity and before you know one of these are kind of research is that has huge implications and the general
01:46:09public level everybody cast for that everybody gets with his spiritual mental ability so you know things get enough it doesn't stay only within the academic publications things get out of the popular media very fast and then also confusions around eight well that's a challenge for us but I
01:46:29think we may have some questions from the audience is that correct we have %HESITATION several questions I don't know whether you all well recall but on the website could be put up for the Dalai Lama's events we give the opportunity for the public and especially our UCLA students
01:46:44to ask questions of both for his holiness as well as for the panelists today and %HESITATION we actually from these are all there were well over a hundred questions submitted %HESITATION quite a lot he's a seven contract with the but I I I but we were able to
01:47:03go through these and we %HESITATION we actually chose for questions to the morning two in the afternoon %HESITATION submitted by students as winners who were able to get a free ticket to the events and out of the question asked before of the panel here so the first question
01:47:19I have is from one of our UCLA students said Nicholas Dietz Nick Dietz who asks all of you a recent research suggests that various forms of meditation produce beta and alpha brain waves that may be associated with increased earning capacity creativity and inner calmness is there a common
01:47:40denominator among the different types of meditative practice that produce these effects and what then finally is the is the ultimate goal of study the correlation between meditation and the brain on the phone so we have five minutes for each question who would like to go first yeah gentleman
01:47:58I mean I don't think they should just be him Jericho side it should be both sides and well I think the waves you guys have to respond to the waves and with the way for you can't really and you know what the lease well I could tackle the
01:48:11waves a little bit and I think there's some really provocative research is coming out what I've seen so far doesn't move us far beyond %HESITATION an understanding that some relaxation processes %HESITATION end up enhancing %HESITATION %HESITATION variety of other other two skills %HESITATION and it is there's a
01:48:34relationship that's been widely documented with respect almost every performance activity is referred to as the your keys Dotson wall and it's a big inverted you function and it turns out that everyone will have a certain level of arousal or anxiety at which they will have optimal performance if
01:48:51they don't have enough arousal rings are they won't do as well this have too much they will do as well as they get pushed over the cliff and can no longer perform as well as they could resentment of upset at the a that's right so %HESITATION and it
01:49:05makes a big difference how practice the activity is as well so that someone who is very highly skilled practice activity can be pushed higher and higher levels of arousal and still perform very well like the Olympic athletes that we're talking about %HESITATION but I think that %HESITATION in
01:49:18there but a number of experiments showing that by adjusting people's position on this your keys Dodson for which is usually associated with the increased level of alpha %HESITATION %HESITATION but occasionally increased level of a higher frequency activity that this is associated with enhanced activity so far I haven't
01:49:36seen any prescriptive methods available %HESITATION and maybe %HESITATION %HESITATION the young emerging doctor Dietz I will be the person who conduct those experiments here you see elect %HESITATION and and to make a prescriptive practices ideally I think what would be lovely if we could identify on what is
01:49:57an individual needs to emphasize and provide a specific neuro feedback mechanisms in order to achieve that but so far as I know %HESITATION such experiments have not yet been done and you think that that that would be the of the old political will study the correlation between meditation
01:50:12and the rate is that why why you're a scientist would have interested for this meditative practices yeah absolutely I think these are the kinds of you know research studies are in progress I know that to his holiness to spend quite a bit of time with Richie Davidson who
01:50:24is one of the world's most eminent %HESITATION nor physiologist and conducted many of the best studies of this kind %HESITATION so we could contact Richie and see what he how he answers this question but I think he would agree that we still are some way away from this
01:50:37prescriptive practice that is the the holy grail of such work other thoughts we have maybe moment when we go on to the next but I I would just only add that in relation to what longtime was talking about I think it's very very important that applications are developed
01:50:54from the research about sort of more advanced meditative practices which obviously cannot be use really to tie the therapeutically or educationally with the general population even into better anywhere and yet they can find offshoots of that like mine from those and bad used in a completely non religious
01:51:12and on others tends to help people improve their functioning in whatever way and we never did answer your question doctor book crime or about training and empathy and fed would be possible and clearly we would think it is but again how to do it in a way that
01:51:27is not like some big spiritual thing that is being demanded of people but rather I think emotional intelligence work actually goes in that direction for example and is very good so that I was very impressed particularly with your thing a long time and if you could hook that
01:51:41up with some girl feedback thing and you know you have like a thing where someone is being trained to be more empathetic and that is that what you're not being a time but that it now and see if they could move in that direction this even slightly I
01:51:52think this would be very good case only and possibly clinically you have done that with the newer feedback the neural feedback you have done something like that are not not Michael told me to who is Mike as Michael's not history that's okay we do have student evaluations though
01:52:18form of feedback sort of course your feedback my mind is changing gone wrong here but let's have the second question yes on this is from one of our UCLA students again roots deep Monday and %HESITATION his question is this is really really to both sides of the divide
01:52:36here to achieve enlightenment do you believe physical changes must occur in the brain or is it entirely a non physical or what we might call spiritual developed %HESITATION so I think services and I think you have to tackle that when I was just at the age of the
01:52:59most from I I don't know how to answer that aren't they inextricable I mean I would I would say that anything that that that we think about that happens in the brain and that we can measure it it's that it touches upon a very %HESITATION difficult %HESITATION question
01:53:24I think you know one of the things about %HESITATION his holiness is the amazing thing about him is that he's very pragmatic %HESITATION and %HESITATION once in a while in the conversations that he has but scientist particularly the series of mind in life conversations that he likes to
01:53:41keep the parameters of the discourse quite clearly defined so that there is no place for you know very specifically of religious concept Buddhist concepts like rebirth or Carmichael's lifetimes and soul to be part of that conversation you know he really wants to keep it in a because he
01:53:59makes distinctions between aspect of signs and Buddhism aspect of philosophy in Buddhism and expected religion Buddhism so it but scientist the parameters of the decomposition really has to be the aspect the dimension of science and Buddhism and every now and then the necessary to ex interpret certain phenomena
01:54:23then may be appealed to a philosophical concepts so regardless of that every now and then this question of mind body to a lady comes up and days for this one said that %HESITATION you know and this is a metaphysical in then it's a philosophical question and people may
01:54:40hold different standpoints but that doesn't that shouldn't you're not preclude us from doing collaborations where we can start looking at the whole question of consciousness kind of in a piecemeal fashion looking at the specific components of the you know mine from the police point of view brain from
01:55:02the scientific point of view the date is attention but it is empathy but it is you know it specific emotions over the discretion to do with the regulation so we can look at these functions all of which is part of the rich experience of the mind and although
01:55:18we may not be able to at this point pinpoint what that thing is you know in the final sense so I think that this is how it is very slow in this is brilliant I mean he's the his pragmatism is saying look this that the fact that we
01:55:35cannot agree on this ultimate question shouldn't stop us from making progress together right for this this is actually a wonderful point to finish on because I it so happens that I have %HESITATION his homelessness is one of his recent books the universe in a single atom for some
01:55:54of you may have read and he you just remind me as as you were speaking of a quote at the beginning of the book which I should read to you because I think it sums this up actual paraphrase a little bit science deals with that aspect of reality
01:56:08in human experience that lends itself to a particular method of enquiring susceptible to empirical observation quantification of measurement repeat ability and interest subject to verification more than one person has to be able to say yes I saw the same thing I got the same results clearly this paradigm
01:56:28does not and cannot exhaust all aspects of reality in particular the nature of human existence in addition to the objective world of matter which science is masterful at exploring there exists the subject of world of feelings emotions faults in the values of spiritual aspiration based on them if
01:56:46we treat this wrong as though it had no constructive role in our understanding of reality we lose the richness of our own existence and our understanding cannot be comprehensive reality including our own existence is so much more complex than objective science materialistic late allows so I think that
01:57:06essentially are answers the question only it was the word of mouth well we're sorry you're not here your holiness but term Basel it's as well as well excuse me Boswell and Boswell Boswell was that great recorder plus what is the great recorder of the dollar and we do
01:57:35a take you all for your attendance as well today I wanted to give my personal thanks as well to doctor look something up gave Java when I when this was first broached by his holiness on my immediately panicked and thought how what held by someone who is not
01:57:51a zero size is going to pull this off the life course immediately passed it off to my colleague looks on he's been a long time member of our faculty advisory committee the center for Buddhist studies as well as a long time member of the simple visitors if the
01:58:03perfect person to bridge insists divide that I'd also like to thank god she knew Jim Pauline Fuhrman law for coming out today on very short notice to help us to begin to represent this side of the %HESITATION tradition and %HESITATION finally I want to also extend my deepest
01:58:19appreciation to the lens foundation for American Buddhism on offense foundation providers are some very crucial initial seed money support to help us begin to frame this entire visit %HESITATION including the symposium today so I appreciate their support in about note I hope you all had a had a
01:58:36a good job day with us and we very much appreciate you joining us and hope you come to use later on

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