Bob breaks down the blood pattern analysis report generated by Celestina Rossi, as well as her trial testimony and recent interview on KHOU.

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00:00:15%HESITATION week by week is we really get into the weeds on this case the image of what happened on December twenty second two thousand twelve becomes clearer and clearer as we continue to move forward you're going to win this a lot of what we just did over the
00:00:59last few weeks I display the evidence do you break it down to give my analysis here on the show and then I'll be bringing in more expert people like Jim Clementi to check my findings and provide their own expert opinion our goal here is plain and simple to
00:01:16find the truth and the truth will always lie in the details of any crime scene investigation I've said it before and I'll say it again if a case is solid and the right person was convicted in time technology and attention to detail will always make the prosecution's case
00:01:34stronger in this case were seen the exact opposite occur the closer we look at the Harris County sheriff's department investigation the more we see Colleen Barnett's case crumble before our eyes Barnett through everything she had it sandy which wasn't much she didn't call the lead detective the stand
00:01:54as a witness she didn't call a DNA expert at best she convince the jury that sandy Melgar could have killed her husband with zero evidence proving that she actually did Colleen Burnett won this conviction by spending nothing into speculation of guilt give me an example Cines defense team
00:02:14called computer forensic expert Eric delve into the stand to testify about what he found on sandy engines computers and phones Evans testimony was very clear there was nothing incriminating on the phone to the male guards look tronic devices no human use the computers are phones between nine PM
00:02:31on the night of the murder and four thirty PM the next day when the couple's bound by Herman and family he also testified that he search the devices for a list of key words that included murder knots murder for hire bindings self binding closet door stabbing nyfix cetera
00:02:47basically every word and word combinations that he would expect someone who pre planned this murder do a search for any came up with %HESITATION six nothing the evidence that came out during his testimony was simple saying he didn't use the computer phone during the hours that she said
00:03:03she was locked in the closet and she had never so much as type any of these incriminating words into a computer which is odd for someone who supposedly spent weeks planning this murder according to Barnett but then Colleen steps up for cross examination does the attacker question Delvin
00:03:19findings nope instead she begins cart wheeling the evidence in the what she considered proof of guilt yes Dublin if the fact that no human use the computer during those hours could be because that person was too busy cleaning up and staging a crime scene she then as a
00:03:35computer expert if someone needs to research or be an expert to tie knots she even went so far as to bring out one of the not that sandy was bound with enhanced to delve it she has him of tying the knot would require some level of expertise he
00:03:49of course being a computer forensic expert and not a boy scout troop leader didn't know it's again evidence of innocence is fun into speculation of guilt which was born AT steam throughout the entire trial order did however call in one expert witness cellist Dino Rossi a blood spatter
00:04:08analyst for Montgomery County Madison reed is a company that revolutionizing the way women color their hair it's a company that the founder inherit named after her daughter for many many years women have had only two options to color their hair outdated at home hair color for the time
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00:05:27free shipping on the first color kit with promo code justice that's just this one more time to get that ten percent off plus free shipping this go to Madison read dot com and use our promo code justice according to Ross's report she wasn't contacted to complete a blood
00:05:55spatter analysis on Jim's murder until July eleventh two thousand seventeen about a month before the trial and four and a half years after the murder a few things jumped out at me when I read this first of all why wait almost five years to request the analysis I
00:06:11check the discovery no other blood spatter analysis was ever performed which I thought was a little odd for a stabbing case was zero evidence indicating the defendant I would think the police or prosecutor would leave no stone unturned trying to find something in any case the eleventh hour
00:06:28request aside I also found find I should say it's strange that Ross he gets the nod here she doesn't work for Harris County she works at the Montgomery County crime laboratory surely there must be at least one person working in Harris County the larger of the two trained
00:06:46to assess blood spatter evidence I mean Harris County has over eight times the population of Montgomery County respectively four point six million to five hundred and seventy thousand and that's not to mention the usual prosecution go to forensic lab the Texas department of public safety DPS was already
00:07:04working on this case they did some of the DNA testing and other forensic work but still Barnett taps Montgomery County for the blood spatter work a month before the trial so before I read even a single line of Rossi's blood pattern analysis report I'll admit I was a
00:07:28little suspicious even reach out to Rossi to request an interview to try to set my mind at ease respond to my first email she was working out of the country and said you'd get in touch the next week next we came in she wrote back telling me that
00:07:41she needed approval from her lieutenant to do any interviews journey agreed to interview with grace white of cage %HESITATION you and apparently thought I was part of that team so I reach out to lieutenant and he declined the interview stating that she had other work obligations so okay
00:07:56interesting apparently she was only allowed to conduct one interview fair enough at this point I was already in touch with the producers of the twenty twenty episode that aired this past Friday I mentioned Rossi into just as they try to interview her turns out chicken to do interviews
00:08:11which I guess is fair I mean they're twenty twenty and I'm just a random podcaster guy for Michigan it's still something wasn't sitting right with me after reading Ross's report and trial testimony and we'll get to those shortly I was even more suspicious about why Barnett went out
00:08:26of the county to hire Rossi for the case and then I heard our interview with grace white and let's just say it did not set my mind at ease to give you a little example of what I'm talking about these are some of the quotes from Rossi during
00:08:46a recent interview with cage %HESITATION you wrote the blood evidence doesn't point to Sander per se in that she's not bloody end quote okay I agree with that right off the bat the blood evidence does not implicate anyone really don't respond to Jim's blood on them not sandy
00:09:03or anyone else at best an objective spatter analysis can tell you how the crime was committed without any corresponding %HESITATION corroborating evidence cannot tell you who committed the crime then Rossi in my opinion starts to go off the rails cheesy working for Burnett's PR machine rather than explaining
00:09:21the evidence these are some of our quotes which begins to spin the evidence to point towards sandy it actually does point towards sandy but she's trying to explain how it doesn't rule out either these are direct quotes from her interview the problem is that we have this fourteen
00:09:39hour window when it's supposedly a curse and when she's found what could you do in twelve hours fourteen hours I could drive to Denver Colorado in fourteen hours I could definitely drive to Dallas and back there was no clothes in the dumpster you know or inter trash it's
00:09:54like okay well she had you know I mean she could have driven to Austin she could have driven to Dallas she could've driven to Galveston she could've driven to Louisiana I mean we don't know you could have done six loads of laundry in that amount of time you
00:10:07could have taken one set of clothes and wash them you know six times you can take a shower you can scrub your nails these are interesting theories maybe sandy drove to Louisiana to get rid of her bloody clothes in the missing item from the house although the police
00:10:24reports state that surveillance footage from the camera across the street shows that no vehicle pulled in or out of the members driveway really that's neither here nor there sits Rossi is a blood spatter expert it really isn't her job to assess possible scenarios are theories especially ones that
00:10:40don't involve the actual blood she's only supposed to be analyzing the spatter evidence none the less we're seeing here is a perfect example of a suspect or theory driven investigation a proper objective evidence driven investigation should be clear concise and without speculation or bending of the facts to
00:10:59fit a theory for example the blood indicates X. Y. and Z. but instead we're hearing Rossi try to stretch the evidence to bit calling Barnett's the same can be said of her statement that sandy could have taken a shower scrub your nails where we're which you've done this
00:11:16corporate testified that the sinks and showers were check for blood and stated in no uncertain terms that there was no evidence that anyone cleaned up blood in the house in again these speculations and assumptions are not for Rossi to make she supposed to be analyzing the blood spatter
00:11:35as I was listening to Ross's interview I kept asking myself why why is she doing this I worked as an expert witness myself and ever written and defended many investigative reports for years I taught fire officers and fire investigators how to write reports and how to testify rule
00:11:53number one is simple only report the facts and what you can actually prove through the evidence never over state your case and never ever speculate why is Rossi bending over backwards to make Burnett's case as I was listening to the cage %HESITATION you interview I have thought to
00:12:13rusty Barnett have a personal relationship are they communicating about how to present the case to the media and are they speaking about our podcast Pacific Lee they both seem more than willing to go on the record with anyone who they know won't challenge their statements but seem to
00:12:27have no interest in an interview where they will be asked to defend their positions against the actual facts of the case and for the record I reach back out to Barnett's media relations person a week and a half ago requesting the follow up interview promised by Barnett the
00:12:40last time she was on the show remember that Astor should be willing to come back on the show after I had a full set of case documents and more of the facts but no response so I have this theory I was thinking that Rossi Barnett are working together
00:12:56to control the narrative on this case so I decided to put the theory to the test at that point I had not told anyone that I was going to be appearing on Friday's twenty twenty episode I was intentionally keeping it a secret just for this occasion so I
00:13:12sent an email to Rossi with the second request for an interview in the email I mentioned that I would also be appearing on the twenty twenty episode send and then waited and guess what happened next within the hour Colin Barnett according to my sources was aware of the
00:13:28fact that I was going to be in the episode and she was furious the holidays are approaching and you may be thinking about how you're going to save some extra money I've got a way that maybe you haven't thought of consolidate your high interest credit card balances to
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00:14:45to change without notice visit livestream dot com slash troop for more information during a recent interview cellist interossei spends most of her time trying to spin the fact the massport its theory what it really comes down to the brass tacks the actual blood evidence is not only no
00:15:12help to the prosecution but it's actually in direct conflict with what Barnett sold the jury in Colleen's closing arguments she demonstrate to the jury how sandy lord Jim into the chair in the bedroom with the promise of sex play Barnett this is when sandy began the attack by
00:15:28slashing the knife across Jim's chest and neck she demonstrated this to the jury and she's also push this theory out on dateline NBC deadly women are showcase show you and of course I haven't seen it yet because I'm currently out of the country but I can only assume
00:15:43on twenty twenty as well it claims that Rossi backs are up on this she's quoted in our interview with cage %HESITATION you stating quote that for my blood experts said the first stab wounds were was when he was in the chair end quote but according to Rossi that's
00:15:59not true this is what she actually had to say about the chair former cage %HESITATION you interview here's Chelsea the Rossi quote the state police based on what they had the incident started in the chair in nothing that I have says that you know all everything that I
00:16:18have says that he's facing outward he's in the closet phasing out work and then you have because the only the only injury he has out of all the stab wounds and cuts that affected our retainer vessel is right there in his thumb and I know that the staining
00:16:31on the back of a chair is because from you know a hydraulic pressure %HESITATION from a vein basilar artery in so I can place him inside the closet you know with his thumb oriented towards a chair and then everything I have right there at the threshold and then
00:16:44back in the closet so %HESITATION based on what I can do with reconstruction and blood stain I have him at work in the closet nothing I have put him in the chair end quote it doesn't sound to me like Barnett's own blood spatter expert hand picked from another
00:17:02county agrees with the scenario that she was the trial the sense any Melgar away to prison for twenty seven years now don't get me wrong I agree with Rossi statement here in fact based on her report in her responses to questions about the actual blood spatter it's a
00:17:23she's pretty much spot on she's good at her job the problem I have a Rossi is that she has gone far beyond the scope of her expertise in order to bolster Barnett's narrative conclusions about the blood on the chair were no surprise to me I've been saying for
00:17:37months there's no way that the attacks started in the chair in the bedroom as I've stated several times there's no corresponding spatter or cast off in the bedroom to indicate Jim was attacked in that chair and the spatter pattern indicates at some point that year was actually tipped
00:17:50over on the ground so now let's jump indeed Rossi's actual blood pattern analysis report for a minute to see what she actually found based on the evidence without the spin the report is only six pages long but there's only about a page and a half of analysis the
00:18:10rest of the cover letter according the investigative reports and pictures the full report is available on our website for viewing so there really aren't any surprises here she describes the transfer and swipe patterns on the wall from Jim leaning against it and slumping over to his left then
00:18:26on page four rasi confirmed something that myself and a few listeners have noted a few months ago from the report quote between the transfer stain in this white pattern there too linear cast off patterns and both have directionality from right to left in our traveling up work in
00:18:41quote this finding is significant so first of all let me explain what cast off its most of you probably already know this but cast off is a spatter pattern created by someone swinging a bloody instrument in this case the attacker stabs him with a knife the knife as
00:18:57bloody as the unsub pulled the knife back to make another striker Stapp is the night is your quickly up and back the blood sort of flings off the blade on the wall the directionality in the proximity to Jim's body in the floor in my opinion paint a pretty
00:19:11clear picture of what happens during this part of the fight Jim was laying on his back and leaning against the wall so we sort of in between a seated position and laying flat you might describe his position is slumped the to cast off patterns begin on the wall
00:19:30and about his right shoulder and continue up into the left meaning the night was pulled out of Jim's body in the offender recall the back to their left Jim's right this happen twice greeting to cast off pattern so what we learned from these patterns to answer that we
00:19:47need to go back to the Emmys report Jim supper thirty one sharp force injuries but only seven of those wounds were categorizes stab wounds these were wounds number three four five six nine ten and thirteen all seven stab wounds are located from the midline of Jim's torso into
00:20:04the right side of his chest all the evidence including Rossi's interpretation of the evidence indicates the gym was face to face with his attacker to Jim's right would be the attackers left %HESITATION also only to blunt force injuries to Jim's torso too large bruises on his upper right
00:20:20chest in this would be on the attackers left let's not forget about the big gash on Jim's right hand the defensive wound for money grab the blade is right attackers left combined the facts that all seven stab wounds on Jim's right the only two bruises to his torso
00:20:38are along its right side the defensive cut is on his right hand in the to cast off pattern originate in his right shoulder and proceed up into is right the attackers left and I think we can draw a pretty clear conclusion Jim's attacker was left handed the lack
00:21:01of cast off pattern also tells a story at twelve sharp force injuries to his chest and abdomen Barnett made the point that since these wounds are quite shallow in relation to the length of the knife used killer must be weak you know like sandy %HESITATION yeah seems right
00:21:16hand by the way teacher wonder what I think the fact that we have twelve attempt to stem Jim in the torso in only to cast off pattern confirm something that I said months ago Jim had a hold of the killers wrist the cast off pattern indicate that on
00:21:30two occasions defender was able to stab GM and recall the knight back quickly to prepare for another blow the rest of the ones could be shallow because Jim was grasping their wrists so tightly that they couldn't recoil the blade which should have left some pretty nasty bruises on
00:21:45the likely left handed offenders wrist another noteworthy part of Ross's report is what isn't in it both Colleen Rossy the recent interviews made the point that the fact that Jim never went for his gun is an indicator that sandy is the killer Rossi said something along the lines
00:22:04of you would never shoot your spouse even if they're attacking you with the night this is also part of Barnett's narrative now I'm sure you remember my assessment of the blood spatter I pointed out what I consider to be a massive piece of evidence there clearly transfer blood
00:22:19stains on the closet rod the shelves and on the shirts leaves above the shelf right in front of the gun I think that the blood on the rod in the shelf could be explained away but that would be difficult for staying wraps around the rot that can't happen
00:22:34from something just brushing against it something wrapped around it and in my opinion the only reasonable explanation for this would be Jim grabbing it with a bloody hand they're also spatter marks on the wall under the shelf for the downward directionality which makes sense because Jim had a
00:22:49massive gash on his hand that severed an artery the jury foreman who also has agreed to interview with anyone who won't challenge him but refuses to interview on our show post on our Facebook page that Rossi quote proved that the blood on the shelf and rod came from
00:23:05Jim hitting his head on them as he fell as indicated by the four wound on the back and top of Jim's hat as we all know that that's likely not accurate as I just said the transfer pattern wraps around the rod not to mention that for this to
00:23:18be true Jim would have had to stand up and fell down in the exact same place for different times and we discover that those pork shape wounds match up perfectly with the molding on the wall right behind Jim's head and %HESITATION yeah the medical examiner also testified that
00:23:33the molding was likely the culprit of those ones as well in any case the rotting shell for one thing but the transfer blood on this shirt sleeves is quite another there's no blood stain connecting the rotten shelf to the shirt sleeves in the transfer patterns wrap around those
00:23:47leaves as well now I'm not a blood spatter expert never claimed to be but I've stated enough Holiday Inn express is to see the most likely scenario here Jim went for the gun obviously he grabs a closet rod was one hand to pull himself up and reach for
00:24:02the gun with the other if I'm right about that according to rosty's logic we can rule sandy out because you would never shoot your spouse even if he's trying to kill you let's get back into the report I was curious to see what Ross he had to say
00:24:32about the transfer stains on the shirtsleeves nothing doesn't even mention them like they weren't even there she does know the blood on the rotten shelf though from the report quote on the top side of the front of the closet rod in the front edge of the shelf there's
00:24:49a transfer stains on the wall behind the closet rod and shelf in the space between them are circular spatter stains further down the wall or elliptical stained with downward directionality end quote all of this is accurate and in fact in my opinion all over findings are Acker regarding
00:25:06what she sees in the crime scene photos she just much like Marie's carpenter left out the parts that were inconvenient for the prosecution he goes on to talk about the dining chair that was in the bedroom outside the closet the one the Barnett said her blood expert Rossi
00:25:25concluded was the location where the attack began from Ross's report quote the pattern on the kitchen chair seat seat back carpet below the chair and the white sheets on the bed has characteristics of a projected pattern originating from the closet area possibly caused by the incise wound on
00:25:40the palm of the right hand end quote so what you're saying here is that the blood on the chair and the sheets didn't come from G. in being attacked while he was on the chair like Barnett told the jury rather this blood was projected out under the chair
00:25:53from inside the closet she thinks this could have come from the wound on Jim's hand but he doesn't mention that some of the stains appear to have dripped down on the chair when was laying on its back I have no way of knowing if you just let those
00:26:05out or if he just disagrees with both mine and Jim comedies opinions on the spot but her assessment of the white stool is pretty spot on in my opinion she says that some of the blood stains are drip stains and that their quote appears to be a secondary
00:26:19event with a swipe and or white patter and quote on the top and side of the stool in another swipe pattern on a different side my read on the stool is it was tossed out of the closet at some point before Jim got in there then after the
00:26:33deed was done the killers set the knife on it while the clean themselves up what is dripping off of them while they stood there then they use either the white shirt or towels to wipe the name off while I was on the stool Rossi's assessment seems to support
00:26:46that theory other items left of the report that would have got it Barnett's narrative were the spatter patterns of the phone cord findings and the red rose just getting wrong she just ignores it which is a good thing for Colleen because it would be tough to convince the
00:27:04jury that sandy tied Jim up after the murder to make it look like a home invasion if the blood exported share the fact that the spatter patterns on the bindings matches the patterns on his body rustic includes a report with the following the White stool appears to be
00:27:23either out of place move from another location are contained something capable of creating a void on the top side of the stool that was neither identify nor collected after the victim receive wounds to the head and neck based on the linear contusions on his upper back and head
00:27:37its most plausible that he contacted the lower closet rod and shelf causing the transfer stain to the front of the rod and shelf creating a cessation cast off pattern with directional spatter stains above behind and below the rod shell at some point the victims had came into contact
00:27:51with the wall below the closet rod avoid between the transfer stains in this might banners indicate the victim said was away from the wall before coming into contact with the wall again causing this white pattern from right to left and downward to his final resting position the two
00:28:04linear cast off pattern that have upper directionality from right to left indicate that an object was moving up work from right to left low to the floor and within the confines of the closet so Ross's report is really pretty basic in the overall conclusion section she makes just
00:28:21four points the blood on the chair and she came from blood projected from inside the closet the white still was likely moved there from another location or at some point had something on it they could create a void in the pattern white shirt for example she describes the
00:28:35cast a pattern that we discussed earlier but notice the contrast between that section or he just days the fact that there is in fact a cast off pattern in the closet rod paragraph she doesn't answer any opinion about what the most plausible explanation is regarding the cast off
00:28:49a left handed attacker or at least someone attacking with their left hand that would ruin Burnett's case over the closet rod and shall we get a quote most plausible theory a theory that does not involve Jim reaching for his gun the bottom line is that Ross's report can
00:29:13be summed up as follows attack happened in the closet Jim was not step outside of the closet or in the chair in the killer would have had blood on them that's really it is far as evidentiary value and yet this is how she ended her interview with Kato
00:29:26you race white Assur quote so in your mind there's no doubt that Xander is guilty Rossi's response there's no doubt what in the actual let me look back for a second she can prove that the attack happened in the closet and that the killer would have blood on
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00:34:04com slash justice now that we've heard which Ellis Tina Rossi concluded in a blood pattern analysis report what's next move on to our testimony at trial the source documents of this testimony is based on was six pages long a page and a half of which container analysis which
00:34:31ended with a four paragraph conclusion those four observations somehow translated into one hundred and thirty two pages of trial transcript I'm gonna head on the highlights but the entire document is available on our website per the usual routine Barnett has Ross I go to resume she starter education
00:34:48with an associates degree in business administration and became a police dispatcher from there she moved into the jail and then on the police academy choose a patrol officer in a two thousand two she moved into the crime lab last year when she was asked to evaluate the blood
00:35:02evidence in this case Rossi had worked in the crime lab for fifteen years and she was teaching college level forensic courses and %HESITATION several pages of Rossi listing papers he's publishing award she's one you can read them in the transcript for the sake of brevity I would stipulate
00:35:16the cellist in a Rossi is clearly very good at her job and according to Rossi she was brought into the case because the enemies in this case doctors been Arian Hayden suggested the Barnett reach out to her also turns out that Ross he knows our buddy Maurice he
00:35:34was one of our students in a class you taught and interestingly enough she asked for all of the police report before she performed or spatter analysis I'm not sure if this is typical protocol but it strikes me as unnecessary and has a huge potential to bias the analyst
00:35:49the blood patterns mean with the blood patterns meet the autopsy report certainly would be useful but I'm not sure why it would matter with the police think happened just thinking out loud here but this is the precise reason that when Jim Clementi works on any of our cases
00:36:03he doesn't want to know anything about any suspects he doesn't want to know any of the crime scene investigators conclusions he only wants to look at the crime scene and hear about victimology he's always taught me to let the evidence guide you theories come at the end of
00:36:18the investigation not in the beginning twenty seven of the transcript maxi Chris addresses the judge parent Lee Colleen failed to provide the defense with Ross's report before the trial from the transcript Seacrest apparently she's written report and I've never received a copy of the report so now in
00:36:41the midst of testimony from a specialized witness and I haven't seen anything from this person I guess I can ask for a continuance but I'm not gonna do it but I would ask of the report we tended to me so I can be reading it during the direct
00:36:51examination and the judge agrees Barnett spends a lot of time having Rossi explain what the different types of blood spatter look like and what causes them then on page thirty two you we finally start getting into the specifics of this case denounces begins with a dining chair Rossi
00:37:09starts describing the different stains on the chair in the bar that has the chair and stool brought into the courtroom at this point I'm on the edge of my seat reading the transcript inter interview a few weeks ago rasi very clearly states quote nothing she has put him
00:37:23in the chair and quote Barnett clearly states in her interview that quote that for her blood experts at the first stab wounds were when Jim was in the chair so what did Rossi actually say at the trial well I'll tell you what you didn't say she didn't say
00:37:39Jim was sitting in the chair and was attacked from behind so in order to demonstrate the possibility of how the blood got on to the chair rusty uses blue tape to diagram the area between the bed in the closet on the floor the court room next explains the
00:37:57only injury engine that involved an artery that could a projected the blood on the chair was a defensive wound on his hand at the base of his thumb that's going to add my own thoughts here well that is the only injury they could a project of the blood
00:38:09out of the chair I don't believe it's the only explanation as to how the blood could be projected like that but in any case rusty goes on to explain the because the drip stains on the carpet stop at the door threshold Jim had to be inside the closet
00:38:21when he received the cut was hand the projected the blood on the chair and interestingly enough Barnett herself is playing the part of Jim in the re enactment so here's some irony for you the woman who repeatedly scoffed at the idea that center Melgar can't remember what happened
00:38:37that night can't ever seem to remember the actual facts of the case when she has a microphone in front of calling them as Ross eve it's reasonable to assume that Jim would turn and go for his gun at the back of the closet from the transcript Barnett okay
00:39:00so I turn around to get the gun what happens after that Rossi then you're exposing your back in if I have a knife now I had the opportunity to stab you in the back Burnett and if you look at the autopsy photos I have are there any stab
00:39:14wounds to the back no there's not nice thought but I wonder if either of them considered that maybe the attacker didn't intend on killing Jim that maybe the knife was intended to just control him and they all I don't know hit him on the back of the head
00:39:33fracturing his skull when he was reaching for the gun rather than stab him then maybe just maybe the chair was not moved around and knocked over for a sexy massage could it possibly have been that the killer was intending to use it to let me think %HESITATION I
00:39:47don't know barricade the door shut after he was tied up seems like I've seen something like that before as we move along Burnett Rossi have a discussion about the lack of blood anywhere else in the house and we've heard this argument before Rossi agrees that the killer would
00:40:08have blood on them then Colleen Assur quote would you expect to find blood elsewhere in the house of that person has blood on them Ross is response absolutely which I found interesting because in our KGO you interview she goes into great depth to explain how the killer could
00:40:23have made it from the closet to the bathroom without leaving any blood evidence behind not so much absolutely anymore but the more I think about it the lack of blood trail is actually really important as I've said several times weather was sandy %HESITATION a home invader it doesn't
00:40:38matter someone walked away from the closet without leaving any blood behind let's really break this down for a minute let's say you're sandy any just murder Jim in the closet yeah blood all over you your later found in the master bathroom closet without a drop of blood on
00:40:52your person anywhere you didn't use the shower sink to clean up sold the only place you could have wash yourself as the bathtub between you in the tub is white carpet white trim white doors white counters a white sink in a white bathtub so how do you pull
00:41:07this off I say you don't I mean I suppose in a perfect mission impossible type world it's possible but really I don't think so the only plausible explanation is that the killer cleaned up right there outside of the closet remember back to Ross's report the stool had swipe
00:41:25in white marks all over it it even looks to me like you can see the outline of a knife in the blood stains so clearly some clean up was done right there but how and with what in my opinion there's only one way this is possible there was
00:41:39at least one other person in the house someone had to bring the killer towels to clean up with a white themselves down so they didn't have blood on their hands arms or body right there outside the closet before they walked away let's hypothesize here for just a minute
00:41:55based on the evidence that we have let's walk through to hypothetical scenarios scenario one CD engages in a brutal fight to the death of her husband and killed him she stands up and is covered in blood G. sweating hyperventilating shaking and very likely crying even if she had
00:42:12planned to kill Jim she's no psychopathic killer taking someone's life is extremely dramatic especially that somebody spent every day of the last thirty two years with so there she stands covered in blood freaking out and now she's not alone in the house it is the middle of the
00:42:29night does she calmly and coolly stand still and construct a plan to carefully walk to the bathroom again without touching anything and then clean yourself off and get out of the tub and begins dating the crime scene did you do that I don't think so let's consider scenario
00:42:45number two there are two to four people in the house one is left in charge of tying up Jim and barricading him in the master closet this person may be a woman alternate to Jim and tell them to take this tool out of the closet and laid down
00:42:58so they can tie him up just like sandy Jim sees an opportunity in springs to action and a fight breaks out he reached for the knife and end up getting his hand sliced open he then turned around and lunges for the gun with his bloody right hand as
00:43:12he's grasping for it to get hit on the back of the head and collapses he's either unconscious at this point or the killer points a night at him and tell him to be still or the killing complies they tie up his legs that as they move up to
00:43:24tie his torso with the red rope he starts to fight back again suddenly the would be restrained her unexpectedly becomes a killer literally fighting for their own life at this point just like sandy ins in the area one this person is not a killer they've never killed anyone
00:43:40before it just like sandy they leave the closet shaking hyperventilating yes probably even crying I believe this person would be for lack of a better term freaking the hell out one of their accomplices comes of the killers aid and brings them towels to clean themselves up %HESITATION minutes
00:43:59are spent right outside the closet is a killer moved their bloody shirt and white themselves offer the towel is our compost tries to calm them down they decide it's time to get the hell out of there the non bloody accomplice takes the knife towels and shirt into the
00:44:12bathroom and put them in the water registered out of the laundry basket or a closet for the killer and off they go which of those two scenarios sounds more plausible to you next Rossi moves away from the blood is Burnett Assur the scene looks staged her since Ross
00:44:35he does have experience in this field she's qualified to speak on the topic she basically says the same types of things the carpenter testified to there was no broken glass nothing was reported stolen which as we know was false not to mention the fact that if this was
00:44:48a home invasion burglary and murder wasn't the intention is Jim Clemente assessed we would expect must be stolen the plan would have been aborted the minute someone died they were just getting started then Ross he points out that there was this brutal fights and there was a lit
00:45:03candle on the nightstand the wasn't tipped over right after she said that the entire fight took place inside the closet she also says that there's no evidence that the chair or stool were knocked over again Jim and I both disagree with that and we can see the carpet
00:45:16marks on the floor so we know that your wasn't in the position where was usually capped and also add to that that in our own report she said that she believes the school had been moved but that's neither here nor there she essentially said the crime scene looks
00:45:28staged her based on her experience and training Barnett shows Rossi a close up photo of the bloody save handle and ask her if there's a latent fingerprint in the blood Rossi says now and after looking at it I tend to agree with her she describes the blood stain
00:45:45as a swipe pattern but then again we should all be asking ourselves why would sandy touch the safe with bloody hands after killing Jim more staging I guess anyway direct examination and with Barnett presenting Rossi was saying he's wrist bindings and she points out how stretching the are
00:46:02in that it was tied around sandy's wrists that would just fall off because the loops are so big Maxie Chris begins cross examination about how you would expect mac to begin cross examination first words out of the gate quote miss Rossi where you've been Sir were you man
00:46:23where have I been yes ma'am this murder took place on December twenty second twenty third two thousand twelve in your first called in this case what like fifteen days ago I believe was a month ago now Sir old thirty days ago so you were contacted first time thirty
00:46:37days ago after this case had been pending over four and a half years yes Sir okay so here's the thing I love Max sarcastic style you might have noticed that I tend to operate in a similar manner when I smell bullshit but after seeing the lack of evidence
00:46:54here and knowing the jury voted to convict I can't help but wonder if Max southern charm wasn't exactly well received by them I would hope the personalities didn't trump the evidence or the lack of evidence as it were in this case but something sway the jurors under usual
00:47:11maxed out pleasantries Secrest immediately goes on the offensive but not about the blood evidence about Rossi's testimony that the scene was staged when you read to the staging section of direct examination you'll see that Ross he testifies with confidence that based on all the factors and evidence of
00:47:26the crime scene she can determine that the crime scene was staged but here across Max start asking her a lot of questions about the evidence a lot of questions that she doesn't know the answers to what exactly was reported stolen the house was the garage door open what
00:47:42do you mean you think you read it in a report things like that it was demonstrate to the jury that she made all those claims and direct without really having anything more than a cursory knowledge of the case but Rossi isn't shake it she's a state's witness and
00:47:57she's protecting the state's case is a little bit of what I'm talking about from the transcript mac you're certainly qualified to give an opinion about a lot of things with respect to any alleged staging of a home invasion the truth of the matter is it's merely an opinion
00:48:11and in fact you could be wrong about that statement Rossi it is my opinion that the scene is staged Seacrest and in truth in fact you could be wrong about that Brasi given the totality of the scene in my opinion is that the scene was staged Seacrest so
00:48:28you're telling me that your infallible and you could not be wrong Rossi that's all I'm saying Sir now keep in mind that this exchange occurred after Rossi testified that there are no peer reviewed studies on stage crime scenes in that it's all just based on opinion to lay
00:48:44the foundation for this line of questioning mac asked Rossi if it's possible for two different season investigators to look at the same crime scene and come to different conclusions Rossi agrees but then refuses to admit that it's possible for her opinion to be wrong again after she had
00:49:00just been called on the carpet for not actually knowing most of the facts of the case is mac moves into the blood evidence Rossi again confirms that Jim had to be in the closet when the blood projected out of the chair and sheets then as he continues the
00:49:17questioning Rossi Sir to describe a lot of drip stand on the floor around Jim's body and leading to the safe this would obviously be blood dripping off of the offender after Jim is down and it's also an indicator that before the onset clean themselves up and before the
00:49:31blood dries on them they went to the safe and tried to open it let's again try to imagine a scenario where sandy immediately goes for the safe after stabbing her husband to death next next circle back to the blood trail out of the house indirect rusty makes a
00:49:51big to do about the fact that the killer should have left the blood trail or at least left blood on the door knobs and door frames on their way out secrets has are basically restate that backed then answer any of Jim's blood was found in the bathroom there
00:50:04wasn't any other than on the knife in the tub which is exactly what he was getting at we know for a fact that someone took the bloody knife from the closet to the tub and didn't leave a single bloody footprint or smudge or anything in between the two
00:50:18effectively making the argument mood about there being no blood evidence on the way out of the house the killer had again obviously cleaned up right there in front of the closet before they left the area he also makes a point that if there were more than one offender
00:50:33one of them who didn't stab him to death could have been the one opening and closing the doors next Seacrest attacks Rossi's testimony about saying these bindings but as soon as he bring the topic up rasi starts to back pedal stating that analyzing the knobs wasn't her role
00:50:51in the case this of course is occurring after she happily testified about the bindings when Barnett want to talk about this is where we get another series of Colleen's I object because this is devastating to my case exchanges from the transcript Seacrest did that undergo a technical review
00:51:08process by another crime scene investigator yes or no Barnett judge that was not a scientific experiment I was asking her opinion about a not as a witness judge what is your legal objection ms Barnett Barnett but this is it inappropriate witness it's outside this game over testimony as
00:51:25an expert on crime scenes I found that part I'm using because Colleen is the one that asked her to testify in the bindings to begin with and the judge agreed overruled mac then gets two more sentences out before she goes at it again Barnett honor I object this
00:51:41has nothing to do with the science it's tying a knot and whether or not the judge cut her off ms Barnett what is your legal objection Barnett that is not relevant and again she's the one who brought it up which is why the judge responds all right that's
00:51:57overruled calling doesn't like that so she responds the judge with that I would object that this is not the proper witness for that I would object that it's she's being asked a former opinion of something that's not science and she's not testifying about and one more time for
00:52:12the hat trick Colleen you ask her to give an opinion on the not the direct examination again for the third time now the judge overrules our objection in this whole disaster ends with mac getting Rossi to admit that she was not qualified to give any opinions on any
00:52:28knots and also that you gave her opinion without ever speaking to the one person who actually knew how saying he was bound Herman Melgar Rossi says that she doesn't remember reading the transcript of Herman's interview when he clearly stated that the blinds were so tight that he couldn't
00:52:43get them on tight and had to cut them off and then cross examination ends with their agreeing that Herman would be the best source to find out how sandy was actually bound re direct and re cross were short and sweet calling steps up first might have all the
00:53:02analogy the defense attorney has given you in light of the cross examination does that change your mind about your opinion on this case answer no it does not question in any way answer no ma'am question does it give you any doubt about what your opinion is on this
00:53:18case answer it does not Barnett pass the witness the maxi Chris stepped right up to the podium miss Rossi I am not at all surprised that I can do nothing to change your opinion Barnett objection argumentative the court sustained Seacrest no further questions I believe mac was being
00:53:44completely honest when he said that he's not surprised that nothing you could say would change Rossi's opinion over the last few weeks I spoken to several Texas attorneys about Rossi every single one of them give me the same response and shockingly they all use the exact same term
00:54:00to describe her I'm not going to repeat it because it's pretty vulgar essentially what they told me was a cellist in Rossi is a bought and paid for state's witness as of last year when this trial occurred she testified twenty six times according to our own testimony at
00:54:14this trial one time she testified for the defense in a post conviction case it was a case out of Alabama but that one sort of gets canceled out because he testified for the state in the same case years before when the man was wrongfully convicted in the first
00:54:29place in all twenty four her other court appearances Rossi testified for the state and in every case believe it or not her conclusions supported the prosecution's case the bottom line is this Rossi was called upon to evaluate the blood spatter in this case Lucien's in her report were
00:54:54very basic and simple Jamie was killed in the closets the killer would have had blood on them that's it that's the entirety of what can be proven by the blood evidence center Miller was found without a drop of blood honor and there was zero evidence that you clean
00:55:09yourself up on the crime scene there is no way that any reasonable objective person could conclude from that evidence that saying he is guilty but that didn't stop jealousy Rossi from doing exactly that truth and justice is an NBA studios production and is distributed by wondering busing is
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