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Maria Marshall seemed to be living an enviable life. She was beautiful and wealthy, with a successful husband and three healthy sons. It wasn’t until Maria was killed that her friends, family, and neighbors saw how hard she had been working to keep up appearances and keep her family together.

On the night of September 7, 1984, Robert and Maria were traveling home from Atlantic City when, according to Robert, he pulled over at a picnic area with a flat tire. He told investigators that he was knocked unconscious by a blow to the back of his head, and about $2,000 of his casino winnings was stolen. He said he awoke to find his wife with two gunshot wounds, lying dead across the front seat of their car. Robert Marshall was arrested on December 19, 1984, three months after Maria’s murder. The prosecution theorized that he had hired two men to kill his wife.

To the affluent residents of Toms River, New Jersey, Maria’s husband had been a devoted family man and a respected member of the community. But soon after Maria’s death, his perfect image unraveled as the police investigation uncovered debt, infidelity and a $1.5 million insurance policy. This is a case which has had a lot of publicity over the years. Today, we hope to tell Maria’s story with depth and compassion, looking at how this infamous case effected Maria’s children, those close to her, and the community of Toms River.



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00:00:00medical information discretion is advised
00:00:25welcome to True Crime Brewery in jail and Marshall seem to be living in enviable life she was beautiful and Wealthy with the successful husband and three healthy Sons it wasn't until Maria was killed that are friends family and neighbors so how hard she's been working to keep up appearances and keep her family together on the night of September 7th 1984 Robert and Maria were traveling home from Atlantic City when according to Robert he pulled over at a picnic area with a flat tire he told investigators that he was knocked unconscious by a blow to the back of his head and about $2,000 of his Casino winnings were stolen he said he woke to find his wife with two gunshot wounds lying dead across the front seat of their car
00:01:17Robert Marshall was arrested on December 19th 1984 3 months after Maria's murder the prosecution theorize that he had hired two men to kill his wife to the affluent residents of Toms River New Jersey Maria's husband had been a devoted family man and a respected member of the community but soon after Maria's death his Perfect Image unraveled is the police investigation on cover debt infidelity and a 1.5 million dollar life insurance policy this is a case which is had a lot of publicity over the years today we hope to tell Maria story with depth and compassion looking at how this infamouskayce affected Marie's children those close to her in the entire community of Toms River so this should be a really interesting conversation and to start us off our beer expert dick is here with an excellent review you're welcome this is Ramstein winter wheat eisbach
00:02:17free by High Point Brewing Company in Butler New Jersey so it's northern part of Jersey Toms River the southern part but that's okay too small state which I've never reviewed this is a beer that is created by freezing off a portion of the water and removing it from the beer potentially increase the flavor and you'll certainly increase the alcohol content is the alcohol has been frozen and a half percent alcohol by volume so it's up there sure is so this eisbach is a deep Brown Deer with some lighter coloring around the edges of the beer has a small town and had that last forever very nice very nice Aroma of chocolate and caramel and some dark fruit that tastes pretty much follows that knows
00:03:15Brazen chocolate caramel still there maybe not quite as prominent as the the nose and plaid it's a very full-bodied but smooth beer at the light right let's open that up because I could use a little Delight today quite a tendon pop the top
00:03:42I'm glad to be here at the quiet and it's been a long busy day and it's nice to just sit back and relax with someone I love and talk about murder to okay well why don't you start off our Story 4 going to start with Maria so Vincent pazinski didn't want to take any chances with his daughter Maria way back in 1917 when Vincent was just nine years old his mother was one of the first people in Philadelphia to die in a plane crash Vincent was on a Sunday afternoon scroll with his mother father and brother a man with a flying Jenny was off from rides in it for $5 it was Mother agreed to go up in his brother begged her so she took him along young Vincent and his father watch discipline fell from the sky killing his mother and brother so Vincent valid right then that he didn't want to lose anyone he loved again
00:04:36well sure but you really can never voted that it's out of your control for sure how much she treasured his daughter Deepa Treasure 2 starter not Maria's parents were deeply religious people and Maria was their only child for over 40 years Vincent practice medicine from an office attached to the house real went to Catholic schools when was time for college she attended Chestnut Hill College and committed to it by trolley but even then her father still drove the three blocks to meet her trolley every afternoon for the little baby overprotective
00:05:18only 15 when she met Rob Marshall and they began to date secretly she waited until she was in college before she mentioned him to her parents Rob was going to a Catholic college at the same time and Maria hope that that would make him acceptable to her parents as a date for her but they weren't really impressed with Rob Maria's father said that the Marshall family were a bunch of gypsies who spent more money than they earned and the Rob was just a phony he probably would have said the same thing about any man who wanted to date his daughter but there was some truth in part about what are you saying about Rob about the over spending the phoniness it kind of was how he was but I can see where it's coming from I'm a father three daughters none of the guys that they dated or any good for them right that's true yeah I can see how that works but I could also see how Rob might be a little bit of an annoying guy
00:06:18we say that in hindsight absolutely knowing a lot of bad things about him it's easy to say but wrapped it go to Pensacola for Navy Flight Training he completed the course in 1963 and he married Maria 3 days after Christmas after living in Florida and then oversees the couple bought a ranch house in Toms River in New Jersey their first son Robbie was born 2 months after they moved in followed by Chris when you're later Rob became a life insurance salesman and he soon became a top salesman you can sell life insurance to anybody and hardworking and very determined they moved into a larger house just blocks away and their youngest son John was born in 1971
00:07:08the Marshall family was at st. Joseph's church every Sunday Rob bought a brand new red Cadillac convertible with a white top Toms River residence admired the Marshall their good looks polite children how they were always buying new possession their house was custom-built for them by an architect that Robin tired and they joined the local Country Club that's what you do but I'll see you going to do run up and coming person in the community you got to be there okay well at least that's okay as a successful businessman Rob felt like he was really the big man in town he was a tennis champion and kind of powerful in the Rotary Club he did some work with the United Way and he was known as a big Gambler at the nearby Atlantic City casinos
00:08:03and now you even to this status centered neighbors Rob and Maria particularly rob a bit much behind their backs people call them Ken and Barbie not too flattering was it I mean there are worse things to be called are there supposed I wasn't until after Maria's death that the neighbors realize she may have been struggling to keep up that image I'll absolutely she had to be definitely nobody is perfect nobody can be dressed in all the right clothes doing all the right things all the time I mean what kind of fun is that no fun no sign up his father was a traveling salesman they spent Rob's early years in a rented house in Queens then they moved to Chicago then Wisconsin than Michigan and they're always renters a joke among friends and family was at Howard Marshall never owned a home that's why Rob wanted to own everything he ever saw by the time is a teenager the family was living in Thomaston Connecticut his father did Avenue
00:09:03play lose his salesman job and they move to Havertown Pennsylvania Rob spend a lot of time in the basement of the home playing drums and feeling Superior to his parents and usual for a teenager no heat problems in school we failed to new your English and had to go to summer school
00:09:21on summer school I made friends with another boy and they formed a band and the band played at a party and that's where he met Maria just that serendipitous moment it makes me think of that story one of my favorites Maria I just met a girl named Maria that's probably how I felt because Maria was very pretty and beautiful long blonde hair but even better she was a doctor's daughter getting a girl like Maria to be his girlfriend and then to marry him would be a big accomplishment for Rob said he's already looking out for the upper hand the big bucks absolutely he wants to move up so he's not going to just marry any old girl know she's got to be not only beautiful but come from a wealthy family yeah Prestige is family right so for the bulk of their marriage Rob seem to adore Maria he doted on her and he told anyone who would listen that she was the most beautiful woman he'd ever seen
00:10:21when the bloom fell off the road so to speak and rap begin to stray he began to see Maria is more of a burden she seemed perfect but almost more like an ornament than a person it started to annoy him the marriage lack passion but to her son's Maria was always very real always loving affectionate she was a mom make account on very devoted she was cheating winter School sports for the kids and she was very involved with her children all three of them and I always think well she didn't have to work so she was kind of in a position where it wasn't too hard to be that way I just like to say that because a lot of moms have to work they don't have the support of that and they might not go to all these things but they're just as kid made it and just as loving as mothers I wasn't saying that I know I just I feel like I have to point that out thanks actively involved in their kids absolutely
00:11:21problems if they needed someone to talk to she was genuinely caring and a friend to her children in a good way of friend seems like that problems seems like on September 6th 1984 Robby Marshall is home from school he have been kicked out of Villanova first semester for drinking it for helping some other guys kick down the door of a resident assistant it was suggested that he take a semester off and then we enter to Robbie had enrolled at Stockton State for the semester but classes there didn't begin for another week so he had some time on his own to kill Robbie woke up around 11 and his mom Maria asked him to lunch with both of his parents they're going to the club now things have been a little rough between Robbie and Ron senior since Robbie suspension seem like he was really angry about this
00:12:22baby we sugar-coated it a little bit when it said a little rough daddy going to Villanova and that's what he wanted and son to do his oldest son and he was supposed to go to Villanova and be a star and everything is the temperature in here is getting kicked out after one semester so I can see where Dad's a little disappointed appearances being more important than what's really going on in in relationships and in families that sort of thing Robbie wanted to make up with his Dad and so he agreed to go to lunch with them you got dressed and went down to the kitchen where Maria was waiting for him know Rob though God knows where your father is he stays Maria said
00:13:11so it was shortly after noon when Rob to come home he was irritable and in a hurry according to Robbie know Rob was a 45 year old man at the time over the past few months he's lost 20 or 30 pounds and had become kind of a bundle of nervous energy when really strange thing that Robbie would remember from that day was that a car pulled up in their driveway as they were about to leave for lunch probably had never seen the man before Rob went into his home office with the man for a few minutes and then he returned to the car when Robbie asked who that was Rob said it was mr. Gerard and mr. Gerard said have a nice vacation before he got in his car and drove away but there was no vacation coming up so it was really a weird thing for him to say and Rob said to Robbie well mr. Gerard is just trying to be funny so really it significant that the time but later on Robbie would look back at that and realize some things
00:14:11it was another ride thing was after they had lunch and they're driving back home as mother took her to set out of the car tape deck and looked at the little plastic box where this titles of the songs were written down to have anything to remind you of me she asked Rob seems extremely cold as he pulled out a cassette from Beneath the Sea tossed it into Maria's lap and said there I do have something with your songs so there didn't seem like a very loving gesture at least not to their oldest son Atlantic City this is going to be dinner at Harrah's Marina to be followed by Blackjack doesn't that sound excruciating it's not my idea of fun but some people do enjoy it gambling have been a popular Pastime for the elite Toms River since the 70s when the casino is it open in Atlantic City
00:15:11with the wealthy people Toms River was nothing man just a little spot in the Pine Barrens of Southern Jersey and then the casinos came and everything changed but I did I grew up in New Jersey and our vacation each year this was in the 1950s was to go to Ocean City just like 5 or 10 miles from Atlantic City but we go to Ocean City and everyone so I would head up to Atlantic City to fool around in the boardwalk and stuff and there were no casinos is just Atlantic City just a big Ocean City different world different world will Maria came downstairs that evening around 6 all dressed up and looking gorgeous at 42 years old she really looks more like a big sister to Robbie than a mother but she wasn't her usual cheerful self and Robbie would say she seemed edgy all that day his father was gone again in late coming back but Robbie didn't ask where he was this time
00:16:10so they went off and Robbie went to bed around midnight he woke at 3 a.m. to the sound of a hand fumbling for the light switch on his bedroom wall the light came on and he saw his father in the doorway his father was crying and there was blood on the front of his shirt who has time Chris Marshall this is Robbie's younger brother last time Chris so his mother was on August 24th when she left him off on the campus of Lehigh University getting ready for the start of his freshman year so we have these two kids who like a year apart and sophomore at Nova near there's a freshman at Lehigh so we had stayed with Chris putting away his clothes making his bed with brand new sheets he had eaten lunch with his parents throughout the mail Maria cried intermittently saying she would miss him but he pointed out he was only 2 hours away and he should see her at least a couple of times each month at 2 in the afternoon on September 7th I'm going to fast forward a little this is
00:17:10after Chris's been on campus for a couple weeks to the casinos on September 6th September 7th 2 in the afternoon the day after Chris is sitting on his backpack in his friends when his father showed up Chris look past route to see his mother cuz he was used to seeing them together but she wasn't there and he could see on Rob's face that something was very wrong at their house early that morning Robbie and the youngest John were told by their father that their mother Maria has been murdered something about pulling into a picnic area to change a flat tire rod was hit in the head their mother was shot and she was dead murdered a 13 year old and not even that even a 19 year old and your dad comes in so those guys are got bad news your mom's been murdered I can't imagine how that would be a girl and John was only 13 Robbie tried to comfort him because his father seemed unable to
00:18:08he told his little brother that their mom was in heaven Rob he kept repeating I wish it was me so this was between 3 and 4 a.m. John became hysterical and Robbie himself couldn't stop crying he felt sick he felt lost his mother had been murdered in the Oyster Creek picnic area off of the Garden State Parkway 10 miles south of Toms River that was on their way back from the casino so Rob senior put on a clean shirt and the police came over to the house they took Rob to the station for formal statement and this left Robbie and Josh alone at home with just the family priest Robbie called his girlfriend at 6 a.m. to get her to come over so she came over to comfort him after it was light out Rob returned and the phone started ringing by 8:30 a.m. a number of friends were already arriving at the house somebody had followed them Rob told everyone a car and tell them into the picnic area when he turned into Chuck a tire
00:19:08I felt like it was going flat it must have been someone who followed them all the way from the casino he said someone who has seen them win money while they were playing Blackjack he knelt at the rear of the car to check the tire then the next thing he knew he woke up with his head bleeding more than $2,000 was missing from his pants pocket and Maria was sprawled face down across the front seat of the car that morning Rob was on the phone making funeral arrangements so he was acting quickly he decided she would be cremated they would have a memorial Mass on Monday and what he kept saying was Maria would want it that way
00:19:45yeah the phone kept ringing and ringing so finally Rob's friend Sal volunteered to answer the phone robbery treated a loan to his office and he left his boys to be comforted by The Neighbourhood women so he's kind of distancing himself from the three kids that are well two kids cuz Chris is knowing you you got these two kids they're probably just devastated and where's that was in the office would remark on his behavior being strange that's definitely a pretty common in person so Jen and Rob gathered two groups to break the bad news Gene Robbie and John would go to Philadelphia to tell Maria's parents and to bring them back to Toms River Rob and his friend Joe more we go to Chris and bring him home from college
00:20:37how Chris even stand to hear about his mom's murder his first thought was it couldn't be real and its second thought surprised him and he didn't say it out loud Dad if you had something to do with this I'll never forgive you will find out that Chris is the one that doubts his father the earliest in this first thought was an indication of that she's just been told what happened right so there was something going on in that family that made him think that yeah what's going on between his parents yeah but you need to chill out of Shame over it as soon as Rob returned home he approached sale and he seemed more concerned with the list of cause then he was with the emotional state of his kids he made himself a rum and coke and went around offering drinks to everyone as if he was hosting a party Chris was curled up on the couch and crying uncontrollably as Maria's parents stared into space John the youngest
00:21:37call Rob around the room hugging him repeatedly now eventually people begin to leave one by one the boys retreated to their individual rooms for me as parents went to bed in the guest room rug was awakens his office until 1 or 2 a.m. Uncle Gene was awake all night he knew things and he didn't know what he was going to do with the information that he had sore the next morning Jane says to Rob was good talk and they went to the patio that Overlook the pool when Rob sat down next to Jay and he said he had something to town and Jane said good when you're done there a few things to tell you you're so this is just one day after the murder it's the following morning and A lot's going down already told you
00:22:24and she ain't said that he knew he knew there rather than having an affair with Sarah and crash are who lives right down the street 2 blocks away Maria told him to go back in June Reid Sean Gina folder filled with American Express receipts and he's our receipts for hotels on Long Island beach and other nearby areas she confronted Rob who told her the receipts were for dinners with client Rob would admit to Marie about his affair but she knew will of course if you have a Super Bowl should story to Seaview Regional High School where Sarah and Crush hour was the assistant principal calling high school because that's where she works there an excuse for that did it and she loved her husband though and she wanted Gene to help her save her marriage
00:23:24style that was her idea on it she wasn't trying to get a divorce and Maria had shown Gene more evidence of Rob's Affair there was a closet where are pet store in extra toiletries and cassette tapes with love songs on them and these were Sons Maria had never heard Rob play around her angry yelled at Janet this is none of his business and Maria had no right to go to him with anyting Jane reminded Rob of a conversation that had last August we're Rob told him he was up to his eyeballs in debt and was thinking fast and Robert blamed it all on Maria spending well I think she did buy expensive clothes and do some spending but I don't know if that was the whole cause of their financial problems well it wasn't but she did I mean she had to look good well I think they were both that way both spending beyond their means definitely for sure
00:24:23existence when that's your when you're trying to impress people keep up with the Joneses it's so pointless and sad everybody else is worried about how they look they don't care it's just a stupid game that people play the way it is Maria had also come to Gene with financial documents Robin forged your signature on a $100,000 home equity loan application for RIA head call Jean just that past Tuesday and she sounded more upset than ever she said things were coming to a head and she was becoming truly worried she had hired a private detective to follow Rob she said she was finally ready to confront Rob but she was afraid to do it alone Gene was planning to come over on Monday the Monday after her dad and sit down with them
00:25:22but it never happened of course because Maria was murdered now Rob seems really stunned by this news he put his head in his hands and said why didn't you tell me if you told me the none of this would have happened so let's think about that statement or just kind of slipped out then if it seems like it yeah it's pretty incriminating absolutely and Jean said what's that supposed to mean then Rob kind of backtracked tried to cover his tracks by saying that he would have left Maria sooner if he had known that she knew about his affair well it's a kiss the best you could come up with a spur-of-the-moment I think you did know that she knew about the affair she's been trying to get him to confess to it for quite some time do she know right so sorry hun and Rob were planning to move in together they put a deposit on a little beach house in Manahawkin they had a joint checking account and a safe deposit box
00:26:22they're just waiting until after the kids went back to school and I was fast approaching or in the early September career there was no doubt that the police would be looking at Rob after all he's having an affair he's in deep financial trouble and he had the large amount of insurance on Maria's life Shoji his brother-in-law and lawyer advised him to come clean it investigators in with his family before everything comes out in the media a lawyer yeah but he never represented Robin anyting told them that there was another woman in his life so holy shit this was within days of Maria's murder and he was almost like anxious to tell them excited to tell them about his other woman so his mind is just not working correctly at all
00:27:22no and the funny thing was that Robbie immediately guess who it was he knew it was Sarah Ann and Rob told his grieving son's that he and Sarah and we're good together he said that she wouldn't replace their mom but she would be their friend and he also told them that she would be spending a lot of time at the house and they would get to know her well as you can imagine the boys did not react well to that probably didn't see it real well to these kids that have just lost their mother would think it would it's just crazy I told to stay away from her anyway there's nothing else yeah but I mean this is early on and he's just like can't wait to get her in like bring her into the family it's wrong with you yeah well Robbie told his dad that the minutes Syrian entered their house he would be walking out and then Chris agreed and little John he just cried this kid was just kind of left behind in this whole mess
00:28:21yeah he's kind of the Forgotten one yeah but Rob went on and on about Sarah and he said she was sensitive she was caring and she was the most important person in the world to him now that their mother was gone so kind of like fuck you boys all about me all about me and my new woman he said he needed her for his happiness and he hopes that they would support him in this
00:28:45and the boys are kind of shocked they're young so they said you know whatever makes you happy Dad pretty much what else are they going to say at this point it's all very shocking and when he was done talking to them he actually had the nerve to say your mother would be proud of you afterwards he starts to Remember the Night of the senior prom back in May when he and Robbie were dressed up in sexy toes and their father after taking pictures told him to stop by the crush hours so mrs. Crush our could see how handsome they look then there's another night in early summer when Chris put on a sweater he got his a gift from Sarah and daughter Robin his mother told him do not wear that sweater Sarah and it's a bit she told him who knows where she got the money to pay for it and that was kind of it mean it's because that wasn't the kind of person is absolutely
00:29:45just before you left for Lehigh Maria pulled him aside and told him that no matter what his father said she did not want him ever go into the crush hours House of these are all big red flags and Robbie for his mind and his mind about how secret of his father and become his started liking his office doors so the boys no longer able to use it as a shortcut to the driveway now he realize that his father probably been on the phone with Sharon and just over 24 hours to Marshall boys who lost their mother and found out that their father was not who they thought he was also their whole life is basically turned upside down they really don't have parents at this point will this might be a time to take a quick break and mention our sponsor take a little break support for Today Show comes from freshly hours preparing dinner or if you just want easy stress-free healthy meals tries freshly cooking give me fun but
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00:31:45play.com Brewery to get $20 off your first six dinners that's $20 off plus free shipping at freshly.com Brewery is murder and Rob's arrest for her murder really gives us to look at who rob Marshall really was he cried to friends about how much you miss Sarah and when his lawyer advised him to stay away from her within a week he was sending her messages through his friends and making swooning recordings with love songs playing in the background he verbalize more concern for what Sarah and was going through since Maria's murder they needed for his children or for his recently dead white Siri and moved out of her house left her husband and got a condo on the beach then Rob and she quickly became Inseparable she even begin spending time at the Marshall house she was at the house on September 21st when detective Maguire called from the prosecutor's office
00:32:43he said he wanted to come over and speak to Rob Rob told Sarah and go to the mall for a while because he thought it's not going to look good for her to be here but she actually refused to go and she said to hell with that I've got nothing to hide so she was there with the detectives showed up and they already knew her from earlier questioning drinks and this is when he was first asked about his connections to Louisiana detective McGuire asked of Rob knew a guy named James Davis from Shreveport and it's later reports McGuire describes Rob is visibly shaking when I heard the name if he came pale and his hand holding a drink with shaking then Rob stop being friendly host he told the detective said he was represented by a lawyer and referred them to him he wouldn't answer any more questions then McGuire brought up another name Billy Wayne McKinnon Rock just ask them to leave
00:33:41so that name that name ring some bad Bells I guess both of them will just Days Later Robbie answer to call when Rob was away on an overnight with Saran and the color was James Davis it was urgent for Rob senior to call him as soon as possible Robbie had heard his father just a few days earlier telling the police that he didn't know anyone by that name so that made him wonder what was going on he was getting worried and told I don't know anybody from someone by the name is Davis I want to talk to your dad and support app settings unraveled quickly so Rob returns home and Robbie asking about Davis Rob give Robbie a story that made absolutely no sense. Net James Davis once a long time ago at a party or something
00:34:35they made a bet on the basketball game James wanted to get the vet and Rob wired in the money so he had no idea why he was calling him now or why he wanted him to call him back. Robbie this was kind of preposterous his father never watch the pro basketball game in his life he probably couldn't even name two teams in the NBA so he's pretty sure his father is lying wanted to believe his father was trying hard and he was so right one in his office and called Gene he told him that he may be hearing that he sent some money to Louisiana but just to pay off a bet $3,000 bet on a basketball game going to be finding out about this money
00:35:25sure it's got to get a story up fast it's not really lame though. Very smart
00:35:38and even if he had he needed the story made no sense so it was the next Wednesday September 26th when the prosecutor indicted a Louisiana hardware store clerk on a charge of conspiracy to commit murder in the death of Maria Marshall this part A whole new twist to the story why was the Toms River mother targeted by someone from Louisiana but the man indicted wasn't Davis or McKinnon it was a man named Robert cumber he was held in Shreveport on 1.5 million dollars so this was a 47 year old who lived in a suburb of Shreveport he worked at the kettle hardware store in Caddo Parish and he lives with his wife and her daughter from a previous marriage and a one-story well-kept little house
00:36:26but now he's in jail he's been indicted by the news of the Cumberland Diamond was capped off by further bad news for Rob Sarah and broke up with him now this was an action advised by your attorney I'm thinking sorry I'm starting to read the writing on the wall and if it was time to distance yourself from Rob this was much more upsetting to him than anything he was like a love sick puppy or something love sick teenager oh yeah make you throw up mid-life crisis I guess to a friend for $6,000 to pay his attorney that he checked into a hotel room that he had previously shared with Sarah and after leaving a cassette with final words to his sons and leaving it at the front desk to be mailed he acted fifty Restoril capsules into a glass
00:37:26to cook but he didn't drink it he started with his finger and looked his finger and it tasted very bitter so we laid back in the bed and fell asleep which didn't really wasn't much of an attempt right but the detectives thought that that was a possibility that he would do that though they've been following him yeah check on him when he didn't answer they feared he might end his life so they call the rescue squad he was taken to the ER and then move to a private room kind of kept safe from everything for a while at the hospital he confessed to Gene that he gave $800 in cash to James Davis at the casino on the night that his wife was killed and how coincidental that Davis happened to be in the casino at the very time that Rob was there and rabbit ending in money yeah he said that James was owed the money for an investigation
00:38:26so it's not even a bet this time it's a different story his story was that $3,500 of his black check money was missing so we paid an investigator a total of $5,500 to investigate his wife he said he's been handing the money over to Maria and some of it was missing so this makes absolutely no sense first of all you're not going to spend more money than you have missing and it's his wife why wouldn't you just ask her where the money is the best you could come up with Grandpa and all these guys are from Louisiana so how could you think that these are random separate things as big story was that one introduced into the other will get into that but yes just all very far-fetched and I think that Gene was catching on pretty quickly here that something was definitely wrong so Rob did hire a lawyer and his lawyer began to speak to
00:39:26the press his lawyer said it was no secret that the Louisiana man and Rob had had business dealings Rob had been getting into Estate Planning and had prepared an investment portfolio for the hardware store clerk he would not get into details about it but he acknowledged publicly that Rob had ensured Maria's life for over 1.5 million dollars and that it was actually a matter of record that he was having an affair he quickly asserted that these were not motives for murder however
00:39:57so he's defending him by getting it all out in the open but once you get all out in the open it sounds really bad and it's really hard to defend someone like that for days later the lawyer said that he expected his client to be indicted for Maria's murder the authorities to taking records of Rob's calls and financial transactions he was actually acquainted with Hardware clerk Robert cumber this is the guy I've been indicted him and him in the spring of 1983 when cumber had been in New Jersey visiting relatives Robert has cover to put them in touch with the private detective from Louisiana
00:40:37a rabbit suspected that Maria was having an affair of her own and he wanted or followed so we hired someone from so far away is Louisiana for confidentiality sick I don't think you have to go to that far for confidentiality I don't think so investigators that number had chosen was a former deputy sheriff in Caddo Parish name Billy Wayne McKinnon and he was using the Elias James Davis well that was the original story but it's just a very Twisted confusing story but it was his attorneys claim that the prosecutor's office had made the incorrect assumption that Rob had hired Davis to kill Maria when actually just hired him to follow her so they said that the claims of the prosecutor would just Preposterous and through all the rumors and publicity is his children were just left to deal with it without either parent Rob was just held comfortably in the psychiatric facility in Philadelphia now he's never even ingested the Restoril so he was
00:41:37completely physically and mentally well it was kind of a hideaway for him at that point so Chris is back in college Johnson temporary to live with you trying to been sent temporarily to live with jeans family and Robbie was alone in the house and most of his friends were away at college so he's by himself there and his girlfriend and broken up so he's pretty lonely he's going through a really bad time is counted on his mother during difficult times and now she's gone forever so he began to feel like he's having a nervous breakdown he began to have Suicidal Thoughts went out for driving his car reach 200 miles an hour was half hoping that it would die in a fiery crash then when he didn't fortunately he reached out to his Uncle Sal for psychiatric help
00:42:37I didn't have a father no they didn't know Robbie was admitted to the psychiatric ward at Monmouth County Medical Center so I contacted Rob to let him know but Rob was still obsessed with Sirens rejection and was not responding to his please to reconcile he sent flowers wrote letters even stage 2 suicide attempt his next attempt to win her back was one of the syrupy cassette recordings yeah I know I don't know what these were actually like but the way they were portrayed in the made-for-tv movie Blind Faith they were pretty pathetic yeah and Sarah and didn't respond to the tape so grab left the hospital and then he returned to Toms River Robbie signed himself out of the hospital and before long Rob was leaving the house for long periods off an overnight telling his sons that you needed time alone to think so Robbie still back home doesn't really have a father figure it all
00:43:35no then October 12th Philly waiting the cannon was arrested on a charge of conspiracy to commit murder and it turned out the really was it James Davis you even know the story was that Billy Wayne Kennedy was assuming that it's an alias there really wasn't James Davis and he too is arrested the next day for the same charge conspiracy to commit murder and I guess he got over Syrian and her name was Terry now we took her away for a long weekend in Florida and they stayed in the home some old friends from Tom's River name the Stevens put over the weekend he realized it was Molly Stevens he was attracted to not Terry so we told Terry that their relationship would just have to be over now
00:44:23and Molly Stevens went along with it she moved out of her house left her husband and begin to make plans for a future with Rob
00:44:32shortly after that Rob told his boys that Molly was just like Mom and she would be moving in they would all love her the love of his life has been breaks up with him and will respond to him so he figures he's lost her forever hooks up with this Terry to go away for a weekend and boom use immediately smitten with Molly Stevens three times Terry and somehow talk smiley into well maybe not talk her into it but she's with her if she leaves her husband yeah so what the hell she thinking can't make stuff like that up can you know this is one of those cases you just can't make it up but Stranger Than Fiction for sure
00:45:18so is no parents left Robbie Chris and John were pretty much lost kids when they were together they didn't discuss whether or not their father was guilty now since their mother's murder was for most on your mind this would make for some awkward silences I could see that Robbie decided to have absolute faith in his father no matter what came up it was difficult because Rob was acting inappropriately in the minds of the citizens of Toms River we made up that Rob was guilty they felt sorry for the boys but at the same time they have resentment against them for continuing to stand by their father so the boys were largely ignored and avoided by the friends and neighbors have been closest to their parents they lost their parents but they're losing a lot of the supporting the community the lawyers for cumber Davis and McKinnon had been working to block there extradition to New Jersey and they did that for several weeks but by late November they lost their fight in the three men
00:46:18your phone or they were all charged with conspiracy to commit murder and they could end up with death by lethal injection because they have the death penalty McKinnon 46 years old was the former deputy sheriff so he was 6 ft tall wait about 250 lb Davis was the got one with heart eyes and he looked like kind of like an old alcoholic country singer if you want to look at that kind of cliche then there was Robert cumber short nervous guy with glasses and he looked really scared the three pleaded not guilty to the charges and their bail was set at a whopping 1.5 million dollars each so nobody was leaving anytime soon
00:47:05so is actually 2 a.m. on the night that Maria was killed when police were called to the scene if you want to talk a little bit about that sure we haven't really talked about the crime itself much bleeding from a cut on his head that he had already been taken to the hospital when Lieutenant Bob Gladstone arrived Maria was still face down in the Cadillac. The first thing that stuck out to Gladstone was how dark the area was to reach it a car would have to make a left at the end of the entrance ramp and drive down to single dark Lane to where the picnic tables and trash cans were the Marshalls Cadillac parked about 50 seat and a little late and I was so dark that even with the lights are several patrol car is shiny Gladstone twice both in the park cars as he walked to the Cadillac growth on both sides was thick is a big sign posted at the entrance warning area closed after dark parking prohibited in Gladstone so right away that the rear tire on the right side of the Cadillac was flat than an office
00:48:05I've been called to the scene field Gladstone in and what they do so far the deceased was Maria Marshall she and her husband and had dinner at Harrah's Marina in Atlantic City and it left around midnight after passing the Barnegat toll plaza Rod felt the vibration in the car he knew the picnic area was nearby so we pulled in to check the tire he got out of the car and so that the right rear tire was flat. At that point he saw a vehicle the dark sedan pull into the area and stop perpendicular to his car about 30 feet away he said he ignored the vehicle he went to the passenger side window and ask Maria to Pop the trunk then he turned around was struck on the head and knocked out now he didn't know how long you been unconscious when he woke up he said that Maria has been shot you ran out to the road to flag down help police he was missing that $2,000 that he wanted the casino
00:49:01and Gladstone it looked around the area and realize the toll booth was just 3 miles away and then the Roy Rogers Restaurant they had a well-lit parking lot and access to a phone was just 3 miles ahead so why pull in there one officer remembered Rob stopping at the car and Patty Murray on the ass before he was taken to the hospital so this is just what one policeman said still but it's kind of a strange could buy a very strange yeah in the back she was wearing several pieces of gold jewelry and necklace and bracelet and three expensive-looking rings and Gladstone took a flashlight and looked at the flat tire and that's when he noticed that there was a clean straight cut about an inch and a half long on the sidewall
00:49:48the tire I just was smooth and on damaged so there is no sign that the tire had been driven on flat or low on air he had an initial impression that something was wrong with Rob story The Trooper called the hospital and told them to hold Rob there until they could come and talk to him so already there really having some doubts about Rob story it's kind of preposterous well I mean they would have to go talk to him regardless anyway right yeah but it is it does have a lot of holes in it right off the bat even if you say okay he would have pulled in there
00:50:27why would someone hit him on the head and shoot her twice it's that dark It's a Robbery there's no need to kill her no because there's no assault other than that plus they didn't take her jewelry
00:50:42what was the homicide detectives arrived at the hospital it was a little after 4 a.m. and Rob was just heading for home a priest from their Church St Josephs was with Rob and Rob had a white bandage on his forehead he had five to seven stitches in his head so not a very big cut and he didn't appear injured or really particularly traumatized by the event he seemed pretty okay
00:51:07so please let him go home and then they met him at the house at 5 a.m. it when they got to the house so it's only like 45 minutes later he's already changed his clothes and he's all cleaned up and he went willingly with them to the station it was half an hour later it was half an hour later while waiting to be interviewed that the police noticed rapid falling asleep on the couch in the squad room so he didn't seem very stressed out and he repeated his whole story to the police about the tire he said that it just didn't seem quite right right after they left the casino and then it seem to get worse the further they drove on so he went to look at it but this made it otter that he driven past numerous toll parking areas and all that gas stations before pulling into the secluded picnic area
00:51:57the most suspicious thing was maybe the slash in the tire because of the tire was slashed it would have been immediately flattened and he would have had to been driving on a flat tire so that makes no sense at all whatsoever so I don't know why he even did that that's just show stupidity really a lot of things because you can't be driving for miles on a car that has a huge slash in it he would notice that so a private detective is contacted Gladstone the next day to let him know that he had been hired by Maria Marshall the previous December right before Christmas
00:52:45Maria suspected her husband having an affair she suspected Rob was seeing Sarah in and gave the private investigator picture of her and Rob and Sara and her husband shortly after that class don't got a call from a lawyer named Michael DeWitt who told him he was Maria's lawyer Maria told you what she had two problems when was that her husband was having an affair and the other was financial problems she found out that her husband have gotten them deeply in debt and think the number that was quoted was something like $300,000 to get them in that. What was he buying yeah I suspect so they made weekly visits to the casino then sure he was losing more money than he was winning
00:53:35yeah he was deep in the hole have you tried to hide this dead from Maria by taking out a $100,000 home equity loan and he got that by forging your signature that we mention that yeah. A bankruptcy petition and a divorce filing for Maria that he didn't file on your goal was to save her marriage if it all possible over the sea
00:54:00I'm worried that Rob might be involved in criminal activities though she was afraid that he was using and maybe even selling cocaine she was worried about how involved he was with the Atlantic City gambling world she was afraid that debts might have made him dependent on people in organized crime so in July I just two months before her murder Maria had her lawyer prepare all the paperwork for the divorce and to keep Rob from using the house as an asset to get any more loans and then the last time that do its amarilla was in mid August so less than a month before her murder when the results of Maria's autopsy were available Gladstone learned that she had been shot twice in the back at very close range the trajectories of the bullets told him that she been lying face down on the front seat when she was shot so I'm trying to picture that scenario if a robber came and said you don't get down and then you laid down in the seat
00:55:00why would he then shoot you twice
00:55:02and then if it was the type that would shoot you twice why when you shoot the husband progressions just some questions that comes through my mind and I'm sure there are many more fry people who know more about crime but don't stand up to good scrutiny anyway no not at all in for questioning like we said and she consulted with two attorneys and did agree to questioning she admitted to the affair and she said it should be done about a year earlier and she said Rob had been unhappy in his marriage he complained to her that Maria was overly possessive and spent way too much money
00:55:40Shin Robin made plans to leave their spouses and start a new life together within a week of Maria's Murder She and Rob plan to tell their spouses and moving to a beach house together for months they had shared a downtown post office and this is what they used to exchange their love tapes their love messages on cassette tapes that they did for each other they leave wine and that's really very romantic how they would do that just some some kids in love to the whole murder part Saran remember that before Christmas 1983 Brad Pitt older his financial difficulties would be over if he could just collect a Maria's insurance money he asked Aaron if she knew anyone who could take care of it
00:56:34Sharon said she told Rob that she never wanted to be involved with him if he could do that to his wife and she told him she didn't want to hear him talk about that again so we didn't talk about it again but apparently he kept thinking about it didn't talk about it with her that's true that's true well once she said she didn't want to hear about it course that's what she's saying but there's nothing to indicate that she knew about it or had any involvement so I guess I believe what she said no we don't like her but she's not a murderer I guess I'm in from an insurance agent named Philip Gerard he said he called as soon as he heard about the murder on the Monday before the murderer Robert called him and said he needed a $100,000 insurance policy on his wife
00:57:23he said he was in a very big hurry to get the policy into effect because he and his wife were leaving on vacation by the end of the week so they did expedited medical examiner been completed the morning of September 6th and Gerard came to their house shortly after noon to sign the papers just a couple we're getting ready to leave with her son for lunch that Robbie was remembering yeah so McKinnon was given a plea bargain for green to testify against Marshall and forgiving police the name of Larry Thompson who's the new entry into the system we hadn't heard about him yet McKinnon said the Thompson was the shooter of four days later Larry was arrested at a hamburger stand along into his new wife here to is charged with the murder of Maria Marshall held without bail and extradited to New Jersey same afternoon Rob was stopped by police while he was out Christmas shopping at Gladstone and received a report that Robin inquiring at a local travel agency about
00:58:23flights from Miami to got to do something he's going to wrap it to Miami and Costa Rica then he might not get extradited from what country you can go to hell I don't know I didn't seem like much of a researcher the way this whole thing was handled I mean I think that was one of his biggest defense things was saying why would I do something so stupid why wouldn't I cover my truck yeah yeah but they were too plain clothes officers and two uniformed officers who approached him and searched him before putting him in the back of a cruiser his bail was set at 2 million dollars the prosecutor's office announced that they would take the death penalty Robbie return to Villanova and he did manage to complete his spring semester I'm pretty impressed with that Chris stayed at Lehigh John completed the 8th grade and entered Toms River High School in the fall
00:59:17so he lived in the family home with the supervision of his father's mother's friend Tessa McBride Tessa was absolutely loyal to Rob though and she scored the prosecutor's office and kept anyone who had any doubts about Rob's innocence away from John and I wonder if that really must have had an influence on John because I think to this day he's the one that has stood by his father so yeah I guess it would be reasonable to figure that if you're in the care of a woman who is unflinching in her support of your father that's less he wasn't old enough to see the weird things that were going on in his parents marriage like the other boys were true will rob and Larry Thompson went to trial together
01:00:04and charges against Davis have been dismissed and cumber would be tried separately because he didn't face the death penalty Robbie was in court for opening statements but Chris stayed at Lehigh Chris's last total faith in his father but Robbie was still holding on giving him the benefit of the doubt over and over again really when Robbie told Chris that Larry Thompson's wife had moved into their house Chris. You must be kidding this was outrageous but he wasn't kidding Tessa had invited her as an act of Christian charity she said and it was what Rob wants actually he's the one that had planned the whole thing because Larry and Rob were on the same side now and they told Rob son John that they need to stick together so Larry's wife's living there with Tessie and John very weird situation
01:00:58and I don't know what the older boys were doing over the holidays and things they must have had to come and live there during certain times of the year
01:01:06yeah but there's nothing much mentioned about those times now so I think they if they were there they were there as little as possible. That makes me sad for the little one and he's lost his whole family and his brothers of kind of college is mom is dead I'm dad's in prison
01:01:22so it's just amazing that he even lived through the whole thing during the 6-week trial Rob Marshall revealed that he was planning to leave his wife and he said he hired a private investigator to determine if Maria was Consulting with the divorce lawyer and to determine the whereabouts of now he said over $15,000 of missing Casino winnings if he was involved in a 14 month of fair with Sarah and could shower Sarah and testified that Rob told her he wanted to get rid of his wife to use her insurance money to pay off his debt so she turned out I'm completely
01:02:01Rob was convicted of capital murder for this murder for hire in 1986 and he was sentenced to death by lethal injection Larry Thompson was acquitted of the murder charges due to testimony mainly from his family members who testified that he was in Louisiana at the time of the killing that's what they said Marshall remained on death row for many years because the state of New Jersey has an executed anyone since 1963 and 2002 he wrote a book called tunnel vision trial-and-error and in this cookie challenge is the conclusions that McGinnis true in the book Blind Faith he pointed out
01:02:45he pointed out flaws in the judicial he pointed out flaws in the judicial process that he believes his failed him he also allege that is trial was contaminated by police misconduct and compromise testimony and evidence so after June 2003 US Supreme Court decision raise the standard for defense lawyers Duty in death penalty cases many death sentences begin to be overturned in Marshall filed the petition arguing that his lawyer had not met minimal constitutional standards the lower courts initially rejected this argument for US District Court Judge ruled in 2004 that Marshall receive ineffective assistance from his attorney just during the death penalty phase of his trial so the third Circuit Court of Appeals upheld the decision in 2005 in 2006 the US Supreme Court declined to hear an appeal by the New Jersey Attorney General's office in May 2006
01:03:45secutor Tom F color to climb to retry the death penalty phase of the case and he cited the reasons were the difficulty in presenting evidence more than 20 years after a crime has been committed and the probability of many more legal appeals if Marshall was sentenced to death again so what's resentencing pending Marshall faced a minimum of 30 years in prison and a maximum of life in prison with no possibility for released
01:04:13in 2006 he was resends to life in prison with possibility of parole and 8 years so he would have been eligible for parole in 2014 until his removal from New Jersey's death row he's been the longest serving inmate there since the state reinstated the death penalty back in 1982 so most recently in January 2015 the parole board hearing for Marshall which was his first was approved and scheduled for March his older Sons Robbie and Chris about to speak in front of the board against their fathers release let people know that that they're younger brother John had always believed in his innocence so with his health reportedly failing following a debilitating stroke Rob Marshall died in the state prison in February of 2015 board here now but there's a little extra something to note about Thompson
01:05:12yeah so in April of 2014 while he was in jail for other crimes committed Thompson admitted to having committed the murder of Maria Marshall and this is the guy who was acquitted acquitted because he had eyewitnesses it placed him in Louisiana at the time of the killing of the witnesses who lied on his behalf also couldn't be charged since the statute of limitations for perjury in New Jersey is 5 years and double jeopardy precludes Thompson from being tried again however his early as possible parole date under his current sins 2071 he still got a few years he's not going to live that long to Larry Thompson ultimately confess to come in for murders at 2 that a bank robbery 33 night deposit box robberies and three armored car robbery spread across the u.s. he was also paid to burn down to businesses of former meat market in a residence
01:06:09busy man he was a career criminal and well future the detectives talk they knew that he was a bad guy from the beginning and as soon as they knew he was involved they knew that Rob Marshall was involved in hiring these people yes for the homicide so Thompson killed his good friends wife Deanna Montgomery January of 1979 in Shreveport in June of 1979 East Rochester Underwood to death in Texas in 1984 who shot New Jersey socialite Maria Marshall and on June 1988 shot Larry Wayne Lester on Immokalee Road East of Mansfield leaving his body to right there until it was found on October 2nd and by his own admission you killed more people now there is an abundance of information on this case
01:06:59so if you want to learn more about it there's definitely a lot that you can learn the primary source for us was the book Blind Faith by Joe mcginniss
01:07:09McGinnis change many the names in the book too but I think we got them right I think we figured out who was who we tried to use real names in our discussion as much as we could and I think we were successful there is a lengthy series of Articles available in the New York Times online that really make for some great reading because if you look through these articles you can follow the story from early on when the death was reported all the way to a couple years ago what three years ago with the appeals process so it's really am definitely a lot to be read about if you want to learn more about it about it is just people's reaction to it because the community we really just hated him and then there were all these arguments on the other side about how he was just demon eyes by the media right away
01:07:59yeah yeah I think he did that to himself maybe kinda looks that way and then there's of course the made-for-tv movie with Robert Urich is Rob Marshall yes yeah it was pretty good mood and although I think it here to the book it was totally buy the book I think so but before we go give us a little reminder about today sponsor freshly if you're spending hours on dinner or working really hard trying to mess with those meal kits give fresh so you try freshly is the new way to get dinner on the table and no tie their chefs cooking deliver delicious freshly prepared meals so you can eat healthier without any of the work each meal is made to order just for you and there's a rotating weekly menu of more than 30 options with high-quality ingredients and they're also made from all-natural nutritious ingredients so if you order freshly today you can see what it's like to really put absolutely zero effort into
01:08:59making dinner so you can live a life like mine because I ain't put no effort into making dinner because my husband cook so everybody could be as happy as I am by using fresh go to freshly.com brewery to get an offer with $20 off your first six dinners and then just a couple of reminders before we get to feedback if you enjoy our podcasting you like to get more of them you can go to tiger.com and sign up to have access we have 20 extra episodes in the feed with new ones being released monthly over the past year we've released members only episodes on the OJ Simpson murders the Diane Downs case The Craigslist Killer Philip Markoff and many more really fascinating cases in March we covered Amish serial killer Eli stutzman and the death of his son Danny also known as little boy blue in April we covered the torture and murder of 19 year old Colleen slemmer
01:09:59while she was away at a Job Corps campus trying to continue her education and she was killed by another student there one more thing we're going to be at crimecon in Nashville next week from May 4th to May 6th is our first time there and I hope a few of our listeners will be able to make it out and go out and have some beer with us if you can make it you can get $10 off your tickets by using promo code TC for free just go to crime khan.com and used TC Brewery to get that discount and thank you for everyone who sent us the feedback we've got a great bunch of feedback today so let's get started on that no Dicky okay first up David are from Georgia with a comment on a Robert Chambers preppie murder case
01:10:44the maturation of Chambers was like that of the variant package in a Petri dish conditions could not have been any better to produce a narcissistic psychopath had his mother tried and then she rationalize his behavior to the point accountability was not to be had what a waste of a human being no disagreement here and sisters had this kind of same idea about him but I really felt like David had some head a nice way of putting it and then Rebecca and talked to us about Oba Chandler on our recent episode Terror by see thank you for an excellent job on your latest episode about the murder of the Rogers women / girls / Chandler was truly evil if anybody ever was
01:11:34I lived in Tampa when these murders happen and I remember being afraid to be out after dark the fact that the Rogers accepted the offer of a boat ride is just evidence of how I'm suspecting they were and how they had faith in other people despite how Michelle had been victimized by her own Uncle it's so sad to me that their trust was used against them to make them victims I'm with Jill on the death penalty in general but I won't lose any sleep over Chandler's execution good riddance to bad rubbish as my mother used to say so episode yeah definitely
01:12:14that was really shocking crime Parable so now we have a case suggestion from Cruiserweight 190
01:12:21you guys should do a show and Ricky kasso he murdered one of his close friends and left him in the neighborhood Woods then proceeded to leave tours too many of his friends to view the body without anyone turning them in this was back in 1984 and really help kick off the satanic Panic raise because Castle listen to heavy metal and proclaimed he was a Satan worshiper it was also the inspiration for the movie The River's Edge with Keanu Reeves between Ricky kasso and his victim Gary lauwers had started sometime before the murder when I was still 10 bags of PCP from castles jacket after it passed out at a party and I know you got your stash in your pocket and someone rips you off if he was a son of a local high school history teacher in football coach
01:13:21the flu and Cold Spring Harbor High School he been thrown out of his home as a young teen and lived on the streets of suburban Northport New York usually sleeping in the local Woods or in the car is Garage in backyards and houses with friends at some point during the night pesos coupled with flowers with him on the neck and stabbed in the chest in Castle continued is assault on that he was stabbed somewhere between 17 and 36 * and his eyeballs have been sliced out during the stabbing there any attack Castle allegedly commanded Lauer's to say you love Satan but ours is said to have instead replied I love my mother after the attack Castle cover Lauer's body with leaves and small branches
01:14:08then in the aftermath guess who bragged about the murder to friends he claimed it Satan manifested in the form of black crow after killing flowers and it's acrylic caught something he interpreted as Satan's approval of the Murder Castle even brought several disbelieving teens to view Lauer's decomposing body before he returned to the woods to bury the remains in a shallow grave
01:14:32I wasn't until 2 weeks at gone by that the murder was reported to the police via an anonymous tip
01:14:39so obviously Disturbed individual but maybe the most shocking thing is how long it took anybody to report it to what they're supposed to do that's true that's true so it's a suggestion from Lindsey Jack and Jill thank you for putting together this great show I listen to and watch a lot of True Crime but your show is one of my favorites I find that your cases are always well researched and the both of you are very insightful I enjoy the married couple banter and is a nurse I always like dicks medical perspective I have a case suggestion that I would really love to hear your cover altemio Sanchez the bike path rapist from Buffalo New York this man terrorized Buffalo and its suburbs for 25 years he's known to have killed three women and raped many more including numerous young teenage girls he stopped his victim
01:15:39on the back pass trails and shortcuts used by kids in Runners all throughout Western New York Sanchez lived a double life as normal Suburban family man he participated in the memorial community activities for his victims his wife friends and family never had any idea that this man was a monster meanwhile another man Anthony Capozzi sat in prison for 22 years falsely convicted for two of the Raves Capozzi was mentally ill but never violent and always maintained his innocence his parents campaign for years to help their son who they never believed was guilty the details of this case are intriguing the way in which they ended up catching him involves a victim spotting him at the mall and following him followed by some great police were Sanchez's murder victims were a 22 year old college student a young prostitute and a 42 year old nurse and mother of four
01:16:39this case never gets covered by True Crime shows although there is plenty of information including a couple of books an episode of Dateline an article in the New York Times and several in the Buffalo news thanks again for all your hard work so I have heard some more about this one and I think we are going to cover this one this summer if it's okay with you sure yep then we have a episode suggestion from Amy yes
01:17:08you're not a super fan to weigh in on your wonderful podcast I'm an avid listener True Crime Brewery and eagerly await the newest cast your easy Panter and mellifluous conversation style it's just a ticket when I need my True Crime fix wow this is like big praise or maybe I'm dropping you a line to give you the 911 on a horrific case I've yet to see covered in any of you of the mainstream True Crime pods it happened in a very sleepy Hamlet call Dryden a small town near Ithaca over Christmas break in 1989 late afternoon 3 days before Christmas 1989 a family of four wheelers shot execution-style in their homes their bodies doused with gasoline in the house set on fire the mother and father Dolores and Warren along with their young son Mark were held in one room of Shelby the harrises teenage daughter was isolated in another room and sexually assaulted prior to her murder
01:18:05the bodies were found the next morning when the nearest neighbor spotted the burning house and alerted authorities
01:18:12I suspect was identified in The Manhunt unprecedented for the area begin and it sent it a week later with a gun fight between a suspect Michael Turner and the police turn it was killed during his mother Shirley King was convicted for her role as an accomplice and covering up the crime in a bizarre twist several years later her conviction was overturned after it became known that evidence event every with after careful investigation authorities through the conclusion that the motive behind the crime of the robbery that had gotten out of hand and we've actually covered this we haven't done it on True Crime Brewery though the Village of the Damned because of a series of crimes and murders that occurred I think this was the lead crime that started off the whole series the first one and it was so scary when it was the best episode of the series 2 we decided
01:19:12full True Crime Brewery episode I'm watching ID we said that this crime probably would have been enough for a full episode though we might want to do that anymore okay just think about it I'm impressed that you remembered to know what he just yet that's not what I meant I just didn't know if you remember that save another case suggestion from not a real Tori Chillin dick I love your podcast I particularly like the comp way you present facts and information without breathless drama or other nonsense and this is what are retractors would call are monotone boring way of presenting the cases but I prefer the way that Tori says she has a nice way of describing us she continues my husband especially appreciates the beer reviews in fact that's why he listens he's not a fan of True Crime as he deals with it in his job but then she mysteriously doesn't tell us what his job is so this could be Joe kenda's wife
01:20:12sure you suggest to the possible case for you to look into a 1998 Lisa Gardner and her parents David and Mary and hence you were shot to death in Lone Tree Colorado Lisa's one year old daughter Sophie was injured but survived the police arrested Lisa's husband James James had previously experienced serious Financial pressures in 1993 at that time he apparently attempted to fake a new identity and run away from his wife and eldest then only daughter when they lived in Kansas City about three weeks before the shooting deaths of the hand shoes and Lisa there had been a serious gas leak at the home whose cause was not as far as I'm aware ever resolved weirdly James was acquitted at trial only to face a wrongful death in custody suit from his former sister-in-law he lost custody of his three daughters James went on to commit mail fraud and his choice pink and
01:21:12city of that crime he is currently serving a sentence in California technically the hand shoes and Lisas murder are unsolved my husband grew up with James and he had pins that James is indeed guilty his exact words that guy was a thug then and he's a thug now so that's maybe something can two might say almost everyone who dealt with the case professionally believes the Gardners guilty however Slappy police twerk undermine the legal case I think you would be able to do a great job exploring and explaining both Garner's early years and their impact on his later actions in the extreme emphasis on money and all his actions you might also find it useful to cover a case for the difference between experience law enforcement and law enforcement that does not routinely deal with murder cases makes all the difference in Justice if you want further info about this you can contact me via email thanks for your riveting podcast I listened well
01:22:12my kitchen and now it's spotless thanks to you both well thanks not a real Tori yeah that does sound like a good one and he likes beer so you must be a good guy must be the case suggestion from Virginia be hi Jill and Derick I just wanted to write to tell you a few things first let me say how much I love you podcast I listen to a lot of True Crime podcasts in fact that's pretty much all I do while doing my daily cleaning at home I'm a stay-at-home mom and housewife so needless to say I had quite a bit of time on my hands and as a result I spent about 6 to 8 hours a day cleaning mamang and listening to podcasts that being said True Crime Brewery is one of my top 3 favorite podcast I love your adorable banter and being a beer lover I enjoy learning about new beers from dick every episode
01:23:01I really do often find myself talking with you both as if I'm at the quiet in with you which sometimes makes my family look at me cuz if they question my sanity
01:23:12last night at Discover the True Crime show hosted by Ice-T called in ice cold but I feel like that up I just finished listening to your episode entitled the Final Act earlier and is quite excited to find the first episode that TV series was about the same case I found it really ironic I do feel you guys cover the case much better and more detail check and I have a case suggestion for you I live in Illinois I grew up in Peoria in fact although I have since moved farther south when in my late teens and early twenties and Peoria I was included with a man named Larry bright for many years may be close enough to call him a family friend during the same time there's a string of murders were the victims being a number of African American women known for prostitution so imagine my heart fight and disgusted surprise been a couple years after losing contact with Larry I found this picture in the local paper declaring his arrest and subsequent confession to being a
01:24:11murder of these women now that's creepy for $10. She is currently incarcerated in an Illinois State Penitentiary serving a number of life sentences for these murders if you able to find information on this I'd love to hear your index opinions about this horrific case thank you for your time and all your hard work and I hope you guys keep it up for a long time
01:24:48sounds good we get some great recommendations to people really pay attention they do and that's the thing I feel like people know more about these cases and we do it's a little intimidating but I definitely enjoy hearing from people so I hope people keep sending it in and I definitely want to check out in Ice Cold Blood and wonder what network that's on maybe it's on the same network cancer Abrams versus Grace for Grace versus a brother to turn it in packaging may be time to pack it in okay alright trying to piss on the fire and call in the dogs that's how we should start winding up our shows with that okay alright sounds good alright bye bye
01:26:05he said he called as soon as he heard about the murder on the Monday before the murder

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