TRANSCRIPT 🔗
RS Trish Stoll
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Jethro Jones: [00:00:00] Welcome to Transformative Principal. I am your host, Jethro Jones. You can find me on all the social networks at Jethro Jones. Today we are continuing our conversation about literacy and we are gonna talk about the Mississippi Miracle that happened in child literacy. And we're gonna talk to someone who's on the front lines of that, Dr.
Trish Stoll. She's the ELA curriculum specialist for the Gulfport School District in Gulfport, Mississippi. And she's been. Doing this for over two decades. And she focuses on implementing best practices in literacy [00:01:00] instruction. And she focuses she has a commitment to, to continuous learning, research, and collaboration with other literacy professionals across the nation to ensure that students receive the most effective literacy and instruction possible.
Trish, welcome to Transformative. Principal. Great to have you here.
Trish Stoll: It is great to be here, Jethro.
Jethro Jones: So this people may not know about the Mississippi. So let me just read something real quick from~ the Gulf Insider, uh.com,~ gulf insider.com. Mississippi ranked 49th the United States for elementary school literacy 10 years ago when fourth graders were essentially an entire grade level behind the rest of the nation.
Fast forward a decade and 85% of third graders in the Magnolia State passed the state reading assessment test in 2023, moving Mississippi up to number 21. Showing the fastest growth in the country in reading comprehension, despite having one of the lowest per pupil expenditure rates. And I am excited to [00:02:00] chat with you about this, Trish.
What is, we're gonna talk about three factors that you think led to this experience and coming from somebody who was, who's been on the front lines for these whole last 20 years, you've seen this change. And so we're gonna talk about those. What is most impactful from our conversation today?
What do you want people to walk away with, Trish?
Trish Stoll: ~I would like for people to. I think about, I'm sorry.~
Jethro Jones: ~That's okay. We can always edit this out. No big deal.~
Trish Stoll: From our conversation.
I think it's important to think about how you got to a place of success. What are ~the key points that I, I can't, I'm sorry. My brain is fried.~
Jethro Jones: ~all good You. You're going down a great path. What are the key points that led to that? Just finish with that and we'll call that part good.~
Trish Stoll: ~Okay. Okay. The key points to led to that led, I'm sorry, ~the key points that led to that success and to consider factors that will continue to maintain and continue to improve.
Jethro Jones: Yeah, you know, you, you talk about how this has been years in the making to get to this point. And, and to me that's really the key here is that it may seem daunting. It may seem like a big deal to start out. You may [00:03:00] see a, a result like, we're 49th in the country, and think, what am I gonna do? But.
Mississippi's been able to do some amazing things without increasing per pupil expenditure without there's certainly been investment, but~ it hasn't been, you know,~ it hasn't been like now we're gonna spend the most on every student. We're gonna do smart things that actually work, and that's what you're gonna talk about.
So, I'm excited for this conversation. We're gonna get to my interview and a brief little news clip about this here in just a moment with Dr. Trish Stoll on Transformative Principal. (ad here)
Today we're gonna start with a clip about the Mississippi Miracle. Here it is, 10 years ago, Mississippi's Elementary students ranked near the bottom in literacy. Today the state has soar to the 21st spot in the nation, and it is Dana Monahan speaks with the Mississippi Department of Education, literacy's Director, about how the state achieved those results.
Mississippi [00:04:00] ranked 49th in the United States for elementary school literacy 10 years ago. Fourth graders were essentially an entire grade level behind the rest of the nation. In 20 23, 80 5% of third graders passed the state reading test, thanks to a shift from balanced literacy to the science of reading approach.
In balanced literacy, students are taught to use cues to guess words and then memorize them. The science of reading approach uses phonics so students understand how words look and sound as they acquire vocabulary. The systems of language is explicit, it's systematic. There's a scope and sequence of foundational.
Skills that have to be taught to students that go from very easy skills to more complex skills. And, you know, so it's, it's really that, that really direct type of reading instruction where we're not playing a guessing game. Mississippi Department of Education Literacy Director, Kristen Wells, win.
Says they created key [00:05:00] strategies in an early literacy policy that was very detailed. To implement the changes. We had to go back and retrain all of our teachers. We had to go back and retrain all of our leaders, retrain all of our IHL professors. And so we opened up. Professional development grounded in the science of reading at all stakeholder levels.
And so we offered that free to all educators from the state level. They also put coaching support in place to help classroom teachers take those practices and implement them in their classrooms. So, Trish, what else would you add to that idea of what we heard there on the Mississippi Miracle?
Trish Stoll: Well, I think that, is an amazing summary of what Mississippi is experiencing right now. I would love to share my perspective as a Mississippi 20 year educator and some information [00:06:00] about my journey on becoming a science of reading teacher. I would like to say that I definitely recognize three factors that I believe have had an impact on Mississippi's success, and I would love to share my experiences with each of them as Kristen wins spoke of so many of those rich
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opportunities teachers have had to gain more knowledge and literacy.
There are also, like I said, three factors. One being prior initiatives another focused on building teacher capacity and literacy, and then also empowering teachers educators. ~So I would like to share a little bit about prior initiatives that as an educator I've had experience with starting with.~
Jethro Jones: ~So let's start.~
Trish Stoll: ~I'm sorry,~
Jethro Jones: ~That's okay. Sometimes we talk over each other with our internet connection. No worries. So you said three factors that contributed to it. One was prior initiatives. What was the second one?~
Trish Stoll: ~A focus on building teacher capacity with literacy, which is also covered in that clip that you shared.~
Jethro Jones: ~then what was the third one?~
Trish Stoll: ~Empowering teachers, empowering educators. ~
Jethro Jones: so we're gonna go through each three of these. Let's start with prior initiatives. I, I'm glad you're starting here because like most things, it doesn't start in a vacuum or anything like that. So let's, let's hear what your thoughts are on that. I.
Trish Stoll: Well these are also, small [00:07:00] pockets of of success. So the prior initiatives that I have had experiences with when I first started teaching as an educator, first grade, I walked into a school and a school district that was currently going through the Barksdale Institute. This was funded by individuals and mostly local and state funding.
And as a novice teacher, I taught first grade in an elementary and weekly I would participate in what was called the Barksdale Reading Academy. We worked through the components with a representative or coach and, the, all of the strategies were research-based evidence-based, which, you know, we really focus on evidence-based today.
Back then it was research-based, and the program was created because of Mississippi's ranking in 2000 [00:08:00] on the assessment for fourth grade we were 49. And then, also because of poverty, a focus on poverty and children of color. And by 2019 we moved up to 26 and we were on, on the top for growth and children of color.
This particular program lasted about 22 years. I did work in, in Mississippi, and teachers can still visit the Reading Universe website and get to demonstrational videos of expert teaching and practices in all five elements of reading. Reading, including writing. And they were all based on the research of the national reading panel and the simple view of reading that decoding times language comprehension equals reading comprehension.
Jethro Jones: Yeah. That's awesome. So this was something that was happening beforehand [00:09:00] and helped contribute to that growth. What? About the second factor, the focus on teacher capacity.
Trish Stoll: I guess I should share if there is time, share a little more about another. This was the Reading First initiative and it was federally funded to promote instructional practices validated by science, scientific research, and they set guidelines for schools and districts. On best practices, there was funding for materials, supplies, professional learning, professional development for teachers to diagnose and prevent early difficulties and monitor student progress.
So this took place around 2002, 2008, and it's also based on the finding. Finding of the national reading panel. My personal experiences that I had the opportunity to serve as an inter interventionist for first grade and also a literacy [00:10:00] coach. We work closely with the state department, targeting K through three with purposeful professional development in the five elements and, our literacy block was protected. So you would walk on a campus and would not see a student in the hallway or a teacher in the hallway during that literacy block. And there were funds for tutors and also an assessment team. And as I said, we worked closely with the state Department after this initiative.
The the state Department continued with the, the literacy coaches and they would come in from the state and work with schools. So it, it's was a movement that continued and it was almost like times 100. It was magnified and they did an amazing job working with our high poverty schools. Our, underserved [00:11:00] population and I did some checking into the reading first program, doing some research about the findings because as I said, it was pockets and not the entire state, like the current movement reaches across the entire state. And I did find some research that where they did find a positive impact on first grade decoding skills.
So when you think about. The fact that when you listen to Sold the Story podcast and how some states were moving away from a focus on phonics with balanced literacy Mississippi was doing the opposite. We were focusing on phonics and decoding skills with those prior initiatives. So I would say that those initiatives did serve as a catalyst to what we see today.
Jethro Jones: for sure. Are there any other initiatives that you wanna focus [00:12:00] on?
Trish Stoll: I would also like to mention the Literacy Based Promotion Act or the third grade reading gateway. And when w with that, there was also a push to provide more resources for parents. So we have Mississippi strong readers.com. And it's a great resource where parents can go and download a flyer that's updated every year, and it gives them information on when the the third grade assessment will take place.
And as I'm sure most people know, that with the Reading Gateway, students must score a level three or above to be promoted to fourth grade. However, we do have what's called the Good cause exemption, and there are certain qualifications that would allow a student to move forward if there is a learning disability or [00:13:00] limited English, someone new to our country.
And then also a student that's been on an intervention program for a certain period of time. And then we also have the
Mississippi Kindergarten readiness, so that monitors students' literacy growth in kindergarten and pre-kindergarten and pre-K.
Jethro Jones: Yeah. So lots of things that that contributed and laid the groundwork it sounds like, for this to. This miracle that seemingly happened overnight to to come about after years and years of hard work and intentional planning and effort. Is that, is that what I'm hearing?
Trish Stoll: Yes, absolutely. Absolutely. I'm extremely proud to be a Mississippi educator and I am amazed with the work that our state department has,
Jethro Jones: I.
Trish Stoll: has done.
Jethro Jones: Yeah. Yeah. That's awesome. Okay. So let's talk about the second [00:14:00] factor, which is focus on teacher capacity on literacy. What,
Trish Stoll: Yes.
Jethro Jones: talk about that.
Trish Stoll: Yes, absolutely. So building literacy capacity. It goes back to programs like Barksdale and Reading First, and then the state literacy programs and our state sponsored literacy trainings. We can go to the website and find links to. Book studies online courses. They sponsor Mississippi Literacy Association Conference every year.
And then we also have one during the summer. We have three consortiums throughout the state and there. They're constantly post posting opportunities for teachers to enroll in courses centered around literacy and best practices that are research-based evidence-based. There was a push for letters training [00:15:00] when we first adopted the Literacy based Promotion Act and currently AIM Pathways. Is offering has partnered with our state department and is offering courses in reading. There is also one literacy for Leaders. There is a course on writing and they're all built upon the research of the national reading panel. Science of reading and structured literacy. And I, I do have to add a shameless plug here.
My school district will be hosting one of those trainings and we currently have 48 teachers registered. This will start and in September, and we will have two face-to-face
Jethro Jones: Awesome.
Trish Stoll: They're, they're state funded and they're free for teachers. That's absolutely amazing.
Jethro Jones: Yeah, that's incredible. Anything else to focus on? Teacher capacity? I.
Trish Stoll: Yeah. So our state literacy coaches often [00:16:00] provide training schools and school districts could request training in a specific area and they will come in and train. Also most of our school districts have in-house training. So they hold conferences like like a professional conference you would attend, teachers attend at the beginning of the year.
Jethro Jones: Yeah, so one of the things that all these things that you're talking about make it sound like is that literacy is a problem for pre-K through third grade teachers and nobody else has to worry about it. And, and I may be asking this question too early, and that may come into the conversation about empowering teachers, but do you have anything to add on
that?
Trish Stoll: Right. Well, I'm glad you highlighted that because AIM Pathways has created a course for secondary teachers as well. And we have several middle school and high school teachers who have enrolled in this course to learn about [00:17:00] the, foundational reading skills. It also covers comprehension and some more advanced literacy skills.
The, the push, the aim is that if we focus on learning to read from pre-K through second grade, then from third grade and beyond, we could read to learn. (ad here)
Jethro Jones: Yeah, I like that. And that's something that that I've been saying for years is that priority number one in the early grades is reading. So that once you have that skill down. Then you can get better at it as time goes on, for sure. But really, if you, if you can't get through any kind of content without a lot of effort and help, then it's going to be very difficult for you to learn anything for the rest of your life.
So that skill of knowing how to read and knowing how to read well is an important thing to [00:18:00] start out with and something that needs to happen. You know, as soon as possible for every single kid. And if anybody makes it past third grade without being able to read. And third grade is, you know, we can, it, it could be any grade, like whatever we decide.
But third grade, you know, is the one that makes sense and where kids probably should be accurately reading at that point. So, you know, if those things aren't in place, it's gonna be really difficult for that. For that student to find success later in any arena. Right?
Trish Stoll: Absolutely. And when you consider vocabulary knowledge, I recently read that after a person learns how to read, that is where they gain most of their. Vocabulary knowledge by the material, from the materials they read. So when I think about vocabulary deficit we have [00:19:00] throughout our nation, it's it's a critical piece to have students learn reading as quickly as possible.
Jethro Jones: Yeah. Okay. Let's move on to empowering teachers. What,
Trish Stoll: Okay.
Jethro Jones: what, what factors led to this key piece of empowering teachers?
Trish Stoll: Okay. All right. So our state literacy coaches were once teachers. So when when that movement took place, teachers were able to apply for those positions. And, then we have what's called the teacher advisory committee. This was a committee. Created by our state superintendent and our state superintendent meets with this committee of teachers in three different areas across the state.
And we have meetings and meet with the superintendent to discuss policies, to discuss [00:20:00] assessments. We can submit topics prior to the meeting and then they share a slideshow with us afterwards to take back to our colleagues and share all the information that was shared during those meetings.
I have been fortunate to, to serve on that committee from, from the beginning, and I've learned a lot through that process. I,
I think it's a great thing that we're so actively involved and receive firsthand information. Also teachers in our state work with assessment companies to write the state assessments.
So they receive training and they also have an opportunity to go through. Well, there's also a vetting pro process where they go in and review and revise the, the assessments, working with that assessment. [00:21:00] Another thing, teachers can take ownership of their professional learning because, and free of charge.
And I know I've mentioned some of the, some of the training available through the state, in person online, through a book study. So being reflective and recognizing any areas of need. And that's not, not just literacy, that covers all all subjects. And then we also have for support, a great novice teacher program.
The State Department shares a model. And I know that personally in my life and my work experience, I work with two colleagues that have spearheaded that program for our school district. And they have done some amazing things even including a TED Talk where we had an office teachers. We had the stage set up with the [00:22:00] giant TED and the background like you would see on a regular TED Talk, and they shared their stories becoming a novice teacher.
I just. Belief that teachers have a voice in Mississippi through the advisory meetings with a state superintendent working collaborative collaboratively on professional learning. With the assessments, we are pretty much included. Not pretty much, we are included in the all the decisions that are made.
Jethro Jones: Oh, well that is awesome. And I think these three things of prior initiatives focused on teacher capacity on literacy and empowering teachers, they're all powerful things that lead to this kind of success that we've seen in Mississippi. And I wanna thank you Trish, for coming on and sharing this as a.
Mississippi educator who's there, been doing it for a long time and, and has [00:23:00] seen when things were tough and seen when things are looking on the way up. So, my last question is, what is one thing that a principal can do this week to improve the focus on literacy like you?
Trish Stoll: One thing a principal can do this week to improve literacy. Definitely go in classrooms and observe what the students are doing. Get your hands dirty. Sit down and work with a student. Talk to them about their learning. Instead of getting your hands dirty, I guess I should have said, jump into the trenches.
Jump into the trenches and see what's going on in, in the classrooms. And,
Jethro Jones: yeah, that's good.
Trish Stoll: Also, I'm, I'm sorry, I, I talked over you. Be a learner. Absolutely. Be a learner. Find out what. You know about [00:24:00] literacy and some areas to grow. I'm just going to add this information here. We also have our assistant superintendent and several administrators signed up to take these, this course with our teachers.
So, that human side that you're still and you are, even if you are an administrator, you are an an educator.
Jethro Jones: Very good. Well, Trish, thank you so much for being part of Transformative principle today. This was fantastic to talk with you and I appreciate your, your time and your experience in sharing the great things that are happening in Mississippi. I.
Trish Stoll: Thank you so much for allowing me to share something I'm very passionate about literacy and literacy in Mississippi.
Jethro Jones: ~Excellent. Okay, now we're gonna pause there and I'm gonna do your introduction where we're gonna set up that whole conversation that we just had. Alright. So what that's gonna look like is I'm just gonna read your intro and then I'm going to talk a little bit about the Mississippi Miracle and then that'll lead into me playing the clip.~
~Sound good?~
Trish Stoll: ~Okay.~
Jethro Jones: ~All right. ~ [00:25:00]