TRANSCRIPT 🔗
WEBVTT
1
00:00:00.850 --> 00:00:02.750
Paula, I want to get first to you. What is
2
00:00:02.790 --> 00:00:04.519
your reaction on what might happen next?
3
00:00:05.240 --> 00:00:07.480
So I've been speaking with sources who are close to
4
00:00:07.500 --> 00:00:09.939
some of these key Trump administration officials who are going
5
00:00:09.980 --> 00:00:13.650
to face this kind of response in Congress and oversight.
6
00:00:13.949 --> 00:00:17.030
So the source familiar with Hegseth's strategy last week, and
7
00:00:17.050 --> 00:00:19.149
they told me, look, They very much expect that he
8
00:00:19.170 --> 00:00:23.149
will be impeached in this Congress. They do not think, though.
9
00:00:23.190 --> 00:00:25.710
They are very confident that this will not move to
10
00:00:25.750 --> 00:00:29.059
a trial. Just logistically, politically, that doesn't seem viable. They
11
00:00:29.079 --> 00:00:30.920
also think there's a good chance he'll be impeached in
12
00:00:30.940 --> 00:00:33.820
the next Congress. They also don't think that will necessarily
13
00:00:33.920 --> 00:00:36.020
move to a trial. They don't know if Democrats will
14
00:00:36.060 --> 00:00:38.380
find that to be sort of politically viable. But they
15
00:00:38.420 --> 00:00:41.799
do expect this will be a long investigation. We dragged out.
16
00:00:42.420 --> 00:00:46.479
Their defense on behalf of their client, Secretary Hegseth, is
17
00:00:46.500 --> 00:00:49.869
that it is his job to present options to the
18
00:00:49.880 --> 00:00:51.890
commander in chief, to the president. The president makes a
19
00:00:51.909 --> 00:00:55.409
selection and then Hegseth is the one who carries out
20
00:00:55.869 --> 00:00:59.630
these orders. That is their defense to the allegations here.
21
00:00:59.710 --> 00:01:02.649
So they're, of course, taking this very seriously, but they
22
00:01:02.770 --> 00:01:05.969
don't seem terribly concerned by this. There also doesn't seem
23
00:01:05.989 --> 00:01:08.790
to be a concern in Hegseth's camp. that the president
24
00:01:08.829 --> 00:01:10.230
will use this impeachment as.
25
00:01:10.209 --> 00:01:12.310
A cover to fire him.
26
00:01:12.349 --> 00:01:15.109
That is not a concern. Once again, they believe logistically
27
00:01:15.140 --> 00:01:17.159
there's just not enough time to get someone else confirmed.
28
00:01:17.400 --> 00:01:20.680
And also, Katie, as you know, the list, the stack
29
00:01:20.700 --> 00:01:24.579
of resumes of any secretary that would be as Trumpy
30
00:01:24.620 --> 00:01:28.000
as Hegseth, that's a pretty thin pile. So they're feeling
31
00:01:28.260 --> 00:01:30.519
pretty confident, even though they do expect he'll be impeached
32
00:01:30.700 --> 00:01:32.400
at least once in the next few months.
33
00:01:33.109 --> 00:01:36.950
So interesting on that, Chris, because we were talking about corruption,
34
00:01:37.049 --> 00:01:40.060
voters speaking with one voice almost entirely on corruption, saying
35
00:01:40.659 --> 00:01:42.840
they're done with it. They also were pretty loud and
36
00:01:42.859 --> 00:01:44.780
clear that they were not happy with the war in Iran.
37
00:01:45.319 --> 00:01:47.599
And this is this would be another instance of this
38
00:01:47.680 --> 00:01:51.640
White House ignoring that. Jason or Stephen Miller is the
39
00:01:51.680 --> 00:01:54.469
new chief of staff. I found it very interesting that
40
00:01:54.530 --> 00:01:57.329
among the first people to congratulate him and the loudest
41
00:01:57.370 --> 00:01:59.750
people to congratulate him, it.
42
00:01:59.730 --> 00:02:00.329
Was Pete Hexeth.
43
00:02:00.879 --> 00:02:05.349
With multiple posts talking about patriots uniting, etc. It made
44
00:02:05.390 --> 00:02:07.049
me wonder whether he was trying to keep his job.
45
00:02:08.069 --> 00:02:11.270
Yeah, no surprise. Well, look, you know, Massey's complaining about
46
00:02:11.330 --> 00:02:14.210
having had no declaration of war from the White House.
47
00:02:14.789 --> 00:02:18.080
I would just say that Congress got its declaration of
48
00:02:18.180 --> 00:02:22.639
war with the appointment of Stephen Miller. That's what that was.
49
00:02:23.080 --> 00:02:25.740
It was a declaration of war, a shot across the
50
00:02:25.759 --> 00:02:29.560
bow of the Democratic Congress. And we're going to be
51
00:02:29.599 --> 00:02:31.629
in for a wild ride, I think, over the next
52
00:02:31.689 --> 00:02:35.590
two years. That will include the White House probably failing
53
00:02:35.629 --> 00:02:40.250
to honor subpoenas in these investigations. But if you'll permit me,
54
00:02:40.270 --> 00:02:42.090
I want to go back to that 60 Minutes clip
55
00:02:42.150 --> 00:02:45.150
where Trump was talking about corruption. And what it shows
56
00:02:45.969 --> 00:02:50.150
is that Donald Trump lives on a different planet. It's
57
00:02:50.210 --> 00:02:54.159
a planet where nobody cares about corruption, where you can
58
00:02:54.250 --> 00:02:58.419
prosecute your political enemies without evidence, just on a whim.
59
00:02:59.060 --> 00:03:04.539
where you can order lethal strikes on boats without presenting
60
00:03:04.620 --> 00:03:09.180
any evidence that they present any threat to the United States.
61
00:03:09.879 --> 00:03:11.939
And if you want to live on that planet, have
62
00:03:12.020 --> 00:03:14.990
I got the chief of staff for you. His name
63
00:03:15.039 --> 00:03:19.930
is Stephen Miller. He is obviously the architect of many
64
00:03:19.969 --> 00:03:24.949
of these draconian Trump policies. He's a guy who, spoiler alert,
65
00:03:25.479 --> 00:03:28.340
I had a long interview with, talk with in the
66
00:03:28.400 --> 00:03:31.500
White House last December when I did my piece on
67
00:03:31.539 --> 00:03:35.900
Susie Wiles. Stay tuned. It's about to drop in Vanity Fair,
68
00:03:37.000 --> 00:03:40.699
probably in the next 48 hours. And I can tell
69
00:03:40.740 --> 00:03:44.500
you that his
Load full transcript
philosophy of White House chief is nothing
70
00:03:44.599 --> 00:03:48.479
like the model of Jim Baker or Leon Panetta or
71
00:03:48.520 --> 00:03:52.430
an honest broker. He is all in on almost anything
72
00:03:52.490 --> 00:03:53.280
Trump wants to do.
73
00:03:54.599 --> 00:03:58.370
Interestingly, when this was the worst drubbing in the popular
74
00:03:58.409 --> 00:04:01.210
vote for the House since Watergate, it was bad. When
75
00:04:01.270 --> 00:04:04.330
past presidents have had a real drubbing in a midterm,
76
00:04:04.409 --> 00:04:08.889
thinking about, you know, Bill Clinton and Barack Obama, they've moderated.
77
00:04:09.050 --> 00:04:11.560
They've moved back, tacked back toward the middle. This is
78
00:04:11.590 --> 00:04:12.939
not an indication that that's going to happen.
79
00:04:14.300 --> 00:04:17.360
I mean, Katie, you're the last person who would be
80
00:04:17.600 --> 00:04:22.339
surprised by this. Donald Trump is not a past president.
81
00:04:22.819 --> 00:04:25.990
Donald Trump is who he is. He is simply going
82
00:04:26.050 --> 00:04:29.970
to hunker down. This is going to be a wartime
83
00:04:30.029 --> 00:04:32.870
White House with a wartime consigliere in the form of
84
00:04:32.930 --> 00:04:38.379
Stephen Miller. He's already said publicly that the left wing
85
00:04:38.389 --> 00:04:44.220
of the Democratic Party is a cancer and that it's
86
00:04:44.259 --> 00:04:50.279
an extremist organization. Good luck to anybody who thinks that
87
00:04:50.319 --> 00:04:55.930
there's going to be some miraculous hand across the aisle
88
00:04:56.189 --> 00:05:00.459
or Trump trying to cut bipartisan deals, that's a fantasy.
89
00:05:02.750 --> 00:05:04.819
I think you're right to say that, Chris. I think
90
00:05:04.860 --> 00:05:06.939
you know pretty well. I think we all know pretty
91
00:05:06.980 --> 00:05:09.439
well at this point what Donald Trump is like and
92
00:05:09.480 --> 00:05:12.639
what he is not like. Let's bring in MSNOW congressional
93
00:05:12.660 --> 00:05:16.189
reporter Michael Schnell, MSNOW Pentagon reporter Priya Shree there, MSNOW
94
00:05:16.230 --> 00:05:18.990
senior national security reporter David Road as well. Priya, first
95
00:05:19.029 --> 00:05:22.370
to you. Any concern? Paula was just saying no concern
96
00:05:22.410 --> 00:05:23.990
at the White House. Any concern at the Pentagon?
97
00:05:25.230 --> 00:05:27.389
Well, you know, Katie, I think it's been really interesting
98
00:05:27.430 --> 00:05:30.750
to see how Secretary Hegseth has been reacting to all
99
00:05:30.769 --> 00:05:35.000
of these calls for impeachment. We know from Deputy Pentagon
100
00:05:35.040 --> 00:05:39.600
Press Secretary Joel Valdez that the chief Pentagon spokesperson, Sean Parnell,
101
00:05:39.680 --> 00:05:44.509
convened this meeting where they sort of discussed. strategy and
102
00:05:44.910 --> 00:05:46.810
decided that they were going to do this sort of
103
00:05:46.949 --> 00:05:49.589
social media blitz. And over the course of the last
104
00:05:49.629 --> 00:05:53.370
several days, we've seen all of these political appointees inside
105
00:05:53.389 --> 00:05:57.389
of the Pentagon post on X stand, fight and defend
106
00:05:57.629 --> 00:06:00.949
the republic with all of these pictures of Secretary Hegseth
107
00:06:01.069 --> 00:06:04.509
with the new chief of staff, Stephen Miller. But we're
108
00:06:04.610 --> 00:06:08.120
even starting to see these social media videos from the
109
00:06:08.160 --> 00:06:12.720
White House itself sort of backing up Secretary Hegseth's resume.
110
00:06:12.939 --> 00:06:15.959
And I think what's even more fascinating is that video
111
00:06:16.000 --> 00:06:19.500
that Secretary Hegseth put out himself where he referred to
112
00:06:19.560 --> 00:06:25.009
Massey as this defeated, disgruntled congressman who was aligning himself
113
00:06:25.410 --> 00:06:29.069
with the Democrats. And he doubled down on so many
114
00:06:29.110 --> 00:06:32.089
of the things that he's done over the past two
115
00:06:32.129 --> 00:06:36.240
years that have been incredibly unpopular. He talked about how
116
00:06:36.639 --> 00:06:40.060
he's bringing the faith of the founding fathers back into
117
00:06:40.120 --> 00:06:43.000
the formations and how he believes that the military is
118
00:06:43.259 --> 00:06:48.040
should actually be used to assist in mass deportations. So
119
00:06:48.180 --> 00:06:52.149
it seems like, at least publicly, there doesn't seem to
120
00:06:52.189 --> 00:06:56.509
be any concern, as Paula sort of outlined, that these
121
00:06:56.649 --> 00:07:01.170
impeachments could actually result in him being removed from office.
122
00:07:01.209 --> 00:07:04.449
But it seems like he's certainly trying to court people
123
00:07:04.529 --> 00:07:08.500
within the administration, like President Trump and Stephen Miller, who
124
00:07:08.540 --> 00:07:12.160
he thinks are powerful enough to potentially save him.
125
00:07:14.170 --> 00:07:19.079
I'm curious about what we can expect to happen in Congress, Michael. First,
126
00:07:19.120 --> 00:07:21.620
tell me, in the House, is this going to make
127
00:07:21.670 --> 00:07:22.370
it to a floor vote?
128
00:07:23.490 --> 00:07:24.670
So it will, Katie.
129
00:07:24.790 --> 00:07:27.089
And the reason why is because of the mechanism by
130
00:07:27.170 --> 00:07:29.480
which Thomas Massey is bringing this to the floor. Just
131
00:07:29.819 --> 00:07:31.879
so folks understand what's going on right now, you see
132
00:07:31.899 --> 00:07:34.040
him on the House floor. He is doing what's called
133
00:07:34.120 --> 00:07:36.019
making his resolution privileged.
134
00:07:36.040 --> 00:07:38.220
And that's because the only way that things can.
135
00:07:38.139 --> 00:07:40.439
Get a vote in the House of Representatives is if
136
00:07:40.500 --> 00:07:43.209
the speaker puts it on the floor, unless you go
137
00:07:43.250 --> 00:07:46.230
through the privileged route, which is essentially a special mechanism
138
00:07:46.569 --> 00:07:49.209
by which members of Congress can force legislation to the
139
00:07:49.250 --> 00:07:49.589
floor privately.
140
00:07:49.750 --> 00:07:50.209
For a vote.
141
00:07:50.269 --> 00:07:52.529
Thomas Massey is doing that right now. He has to
142
00:07:52.610 --> 00:07:56.389
read every single word on that resolution. It's 34 pages.
143
00:07:56.680 --> 00:07:58.660
He's likely to be there for a little bit longer.
144
00:07:59.180 --> 00:08:00.740
Once there is that.
145
00:08:01.100 --> 00:08:05.220
Move to make it privileged, leadership, GOP leadership, will have two.
146
00:08:05.100 --> 00:08:07.279
Legislative days to act on the legislation.
147
00:08:07.319 --> 00:08:10.279
They need to set a vote within that two-day time span. Now,
148
00:08:10.319 --> 00:08:12.439
they can either put the resolution on the floor and
149
00:08:12.480 --> 00:08:14.540
hold a vote and let the chips fall where they may,
150
00:08:15.019 --> 00:08:17.139
or they can motion to table it or motion to
151
00:08:17.180 --> 00:08:19.990
refer it to committee. All of those options would require
152
00:08:20.050 --> 00:08:22.790
a majority vote for success. And at this moment, it
153
00:08:22.829 --> 00:08:25.449
is still unclear what route Speaker Johnson will take.
154
00:08:25.709 --> 00:08:27.209
But he did speak to reporters.
155
00:08:26.870 --> 00:08:29.129
Just a few minutes ago here in the Capitol, in
156
00:08:29.149 --> 00:08:32.190
the hallway. He was asked if he plans to motion to.
157
00:08:32.149 --> 00:08:33.169
Table this resolution.
158
00:08:33.429 --> 00:08:34.659
I'm going to read to you what he said because
159
00:08:34.720 --> 00:08:36.960
he holds the cards in terms of what comes next.
160
00:08:37.000 --> 00:08:40.200
He said, quote, Impeaching a cabinet secretary right now, especially
161
00:08:40.240 --> 00:08:42.519
the Department of War in the middle of hostilities abroad,
162
00:08:42.840 --> 00:08:45.299
would be a terrible, terrible look, a terrible.
163
00:08:45.019 --> 00:08:46.600
Thing for our allies and enemies to see that.
164
00:08:46.679 --> 00:08:49.740
And we don't impeach cabinet secretaries for political gain or
165
00:08:49.759 --> 00:08:50.559
for cheap tricks.
166
00:08:50.659 --> 00:08:52.940
And I think that's what this is. And everyone knows
167
00:08:52.980 --> 00:08:53.309
what it is.
168
00:08:53.360 --> 00:08:55.960
So it sounds like Johnson is going to try and
169
00:08:56.039 --> 00:08:59.320
thwart this effort, probably doing a motion to table. Now,
170
00:08:59.539 --> 00:09:02.470
if Congress defeats that, if there are enough House members
171
00:09:02.710 --> 00:09:04.909
who vote against it, then we would see that vote
172
00:09:05.269 --> 00:09:07.889
on impeaching Hegseth. And I've been speaking to Republicans this
173
00:09:07.950 --> 00:09:10.289
week and last week, and they tell me they expect
174
00:09:10.330 --> 00:09:11.409
it to be successful.
175
00:09:11.809 --> 00:09:14.360
On one hand, it's a numbers game. Right now, Democrats hold.
176
00:09:14.360 --> 00:09:17.240
214 seats in the House. You just need a simple
177
00:09:17.279 --> 00:09:21.620
majority of 218 for impeachment resolution to be successful. There
178
00:09:21.639 --> 00:09:24.960
were already some Republicans who weren't feeling great about Pete Hegseth.
179
00:09:25.240 --> 00:09:26.600
And then you bring in the fact that there are
180
00:09:26.639 --> 00:09:29.039
more than a dozen folks here who are right now
181
00:09:29.200 --> 00:09:32.080
lame duck Republicans who lost their reelection, have.
182
00:09:31.990 --> 00:09:35.009
Nothing on the line, and may be more interested.
183
00:09:34.850 --> 00:09:37.429
In taking that step to impeach Pete Hegseth. And then
184
00:09:37.470 --> 00:09:39.590
there's the fact that I'm told that there aren't Republicans
185
00:09:39.610 --> 00:09:41.629
who are thrilled with the job he's been doing.
186
00:09:41.669 --> 00:09:43.889
They don't think he's handled the Iran war well. They
187
00:09:43.909 --> 00:09:45.600
don't think he's been leading the department well.
188
00:09:45.799 --> 00:09:48.259
There's even been some frustrations with how he's handled himself
189
00:09:48.620 --> 00:09:50.340
during committee hearings when he'd.
190
00:09:50.279 --> 00:09:51.500
Been up here on Capitol Hill.
191
00:09:51.679 --> 00:09:53.950
As one House Republican told me last week, there are
192
00:09:53.990 --> 00:09:57.450
just some Republicans up here who do not like Pete Hegseth.
193
00:09:57.690 --> 00:09:59.970
So we are going to see this vote happen one day.
194
00:10:00.149 --> 00:10:02.700
way or another once Thomas Massey is done reading those
195
00:10:02.740 --> 00:10:05.539
articles and once Speaker Johnson sets this vote, because, again,
196
00:10:05.899 --> 00:10:08.639
by the mechanism that Massey is doing this, the House
197
00:10:08.860 --> 00:10:10.179
has to vote on this matter.
198
00:10:10.759 --> 00:10:14.100
OK, so if it does get approved, what sort of
199
00:10:14.419 --> 00:10:16.940
impeachment are we looking at, Michael?
200
00:10:17.980 --> 00:10:19.759
Well, then this would go to the Senate.
201
00:10:19.840 --> 00:10:21.740
And now it's a question of how quickly would those
202
00:10:21.840 --> 00:10:23.799
articles of impeachment move to the Senate?
203
00:10:24.179 --> 00:10:26.480
So it goes to the Senate quickly. Let me ask
204
00:10:26.519 --> 00:10:30.120
you this. Are there enough votes to get a trial?
205
00:10:30.200 --> 00:10:34.440
And I brought up Tom Tillis, who said that nominating him,
206
00:10:34.460 --> 00:10:37.019
confirming him was one of the worst things he's ever
207
00:10:37.059 --> 00:10:40.299
done in his entire career. He regrets it. I imagine
208
00:10:40.340 --> 00:10:44.090
that he might move to vote yes on a Senate trial.
209
00:10:44.299 --> 00:10:44.730
Anyone else?
210
00:10:45.830 --> 00:10:48.009
I mean, you have somebody like Tom Phillips.
211
00:10:48.029 --> 00:10:50.149
You just mentioned you have somebody like John Cornyn, who
212
00:10:50.169 --> 00:10:53.590
feels burned by President Trump after the president endorsed Paxton
213
00:10:53.629 --> 00:10:56.440
over him in the primary, which then led to that
214
00:10:56.519 --> 00:10:59.759
Republican loss in the Senate election in Texas. You also
215
00:10:59.779 --> 00:11:02.759
have somebody like Bill Cassidy, who has been publicly.
216
00:11:02.639 --> 00:11:04.500
Clear that he's no fan of President Trump.
217
00:11:04.519 --> 00:11:07.539
You have Susan Collins, who is another lame duck senator.
218
00:11:07.580 --> 00:11:10.190
The four we just mentioned are lame duck senators, folks
219
00:11:10.210 --> 00:11:12.169
who are not going to be returning next year. And
220
00:11:12.190 --> 00:11:14.450
then you have other moderates who are in the chamber,
221
00:11:14.610 --> 00:11:17.549
like Alisa Murkowski, for example. So I think it is
222
00:11:17.590 --> 00:11:20.269
a real question here and a real possibility that we
223
00:11:20.379 --> 00:11:23.240
could see a trial take place once those articles of
224
00:11:23.299 --> 00:11:25.679
impeachment make their way from the House to the Senate.
225
00:11:25.700 --> 00:11:28.200
And I will note, probably not going to happen immediately,
226
00:11:28.279 --> 00:11:30.590
though it may. But we do have some precedent back
227
00:11:30.639 --> 00:11:31.350
in 2021 after January 6th when.
228
00:11:31.269 --> 00:11:35.309
The president passed. was impeached following that.
229
00:11:35.389 --> 00:11:37.710
There was some days in between before the articles were
230
00:11:37.750 --> 00:11:38.200
sent over.
231
00:11:38.500 --> 00:11:40.379
So there could be a trial. But then, of course,
232
00:11:40.440 --> 00:11:42.399
the big hurdle is that removal.
233
00:11:42.500 --> 00:11:45.149
And in order to remove somebody who has been impeached,
234
00:11:45.429 --> 00:11:46.470
you need a supermajority.
235
00:11:46.509 --> 00:11:49.750
You need two thirds, which is about 67 votes. It's
236
00:11:49.809 --> 00:11:50.590
a real question.
237
00:11:50.629 --> 00:11:53.009
It will be an uphill battle whether or not Republicans
238
00:11:53.049 --> 00:11:54.169
can make it that far.
239
00:11:54.690 --> 00:11:57.029
But certainly there is some consternation with Pete Hegseth.
240
00:11:57.169 --> 00:11:59.360
Hey, it's Rachel. I am so glad to see you
241
00:11:59.379 --> 00:12:00.860
at the end of that clip because this is where
242
00:12:00.879 --> 00:12:02.700
I get to tell you about a new way to
243
00:12:02.740 --> 00:12:05.799
watch all our clips and all of our shows and
244
00:12:06.080 --> 00:12:09.379
everything on MSNOW on your phone or your tablet or
245
00:12:09.399 --> 00:12:12.620
your laptop. You can watch things live or recorded. Plus,
246
00:12:12.639 --> 00:12:14.399
you can ask me and all the other hosts and
247
00:12:14.419 --> 00:12:18.279
reporters questions in our weekly live chats. You can go
248
00:12:18.299 --> 00:12:24.360
to ms.now slash membership or just click below. Thanks.