Full Transcript for Known Sperm Donation Program is Finally Available

00:02:12,977 --> 00:02:18,597 starting with secrecy and the fact that parents were told by fertility doctors 33 00:02:18,597 --> 00:02:21,637 to keep donor conception a secret from their child. 34 00:02:22,905 --> 00:02:27,805 We know the distress and harm caused by finding out later in life your donor conceived. 35 00:02:28,485 --> 00:02:34,045 And then also you've heard about the challenges around donor anonymity. 36 00:02:34,105 --> 00:02:38,185 So when they don't know who their donor is, sort of that missing medical information. 37 00:02:39,085 --> 00:02:43,945 Missing pieces of identity or genetic information that can help inform them 38 00:02:43,945 --> 00:02:52,965 of who they are, and also of the numerous half-siblings that are out there. 39 00:02:53,065 --> 00:02:58,805 And many of you may have seen the recent story with Victoria on CNN where she 40 00:02:58,805 --> 00:03:03,865 accidentally had intimate relationship with her half-brother, 41 00:03:03,905 --> 00:03:06,745 had no idea because they were both donor-conceived. 42 00:03:07,165 --> 00:03:11,465 This is the type of stuff that we are trying to avoid and we are trying to help 43 00:03:11,465 --> 00:03:16,385 families by having a new way of doing things. things and it can be done. 44 00:03:16,565 --> 00:03:21,305 I can't wait for you to hear how. And I'm here with Danielle. 45 00:03:21,705 --> 00:03:29,185 And Danielle, she's going to tell you all about her story of how she got into the field. 46 00:03:29,225 --> 00:03:33,045 I guess we all have a little bit of a background story of what brought us here. 47 00:03:33,185 --> 00:03:37,325 And so thank you for coming on Three Makes Baby podcast and sharing. 48 00:03:37,605 --> 00:03:40,785 I'm really excited about the topic. It's something One thing I've been really, 49 00:03:41,503 --> 00:03:45,223 passionate about for a long time, but haven't seen a whole lot of resources out there for parents. 50 00:03:45,483 --> 00:03:49,123 So I'm excited for you to share your story and the resources that you have available. 51 00:03:49,383 --> 00:03:52,983 So I'll let you introduce yourself and tell us a little bit about you. 52 00:03:53,223 --> 00:03:56,263 Yeah. Thanks for having me, first of all. I'm super excited. 53 00:03:56,383 --> 00:03:59,103 I'm a huge fan of you. So it's awesome to be here. 54 00:03:59,863 --> 00:04:05,383 Yeah. So my wife and I started looking for a sperm donor for ourselves to start our family. 55 00:04:05,523 --> 00:04:08,343 We now have a four-month-old that is not letting us sleep at all. 56 00:04:08,883 --> 00:04:13,043 But it's all been fun. Yeah. It's a little boy, right? It's a little boy. 57 00:04:13,163 --> 00:04:16,643 Yeah. I don't know where he's from. Couldn't be me. That's for sure. 58 00:04:17,803 --> 00:04:21,283 But we started looking. And of course, the first place we looked, 59 00:04:21,363 --> 00:04:24,043 because this is like what advertises the most, it's sperm banks. 60 00:04:24,283 --> 00:04:27,823 So we signed up for every single sperm bank we could find. We looked through 61 00:04:27,823 --> 00:04:32,603 all of the catalogs of donors and all of that. And something didn't sit right with us. 62 00:04:32,683 --> 00:04:39,603 We kept feeling like there's something like off, right? We should know the donor's name. 63 00:04:39,743 --> 00:04:43,163 We just felt like at the very minimum, if our kids asked us who their donor 64 00:04:43,163 --> 00:04:48,503 was, we should know the name and we shouldn't just say donor 8642 or a fake 65 00:04:48,503 --> 00:04:49,623 name or anything like that. 66 00:04:49,823 --> 00:04:53,963 Yeah. Was that something that you instinctively felt or did you have kind of dialogue? 67 00:04:54,243 --> 00:04:57,783 Did you know anything beforehand going into it? We didn't know anything. 68 00:04:58,143 --> 00:05:02,563 We just knew there were a few things that we had heard of, just our friends had used that. 69 00:05:02,723 --> 00:05:07,003 Okay. And yeah, I mean, we even talked to friends and we were like, well, what do you think? 70 00:05:07,183 --> 00:05:09,483 Like, how was it using an anonymous donor? 71 00:05:09,743 --> 00:05:13,003 And they all had like kids that were like two who hadn't started asking questions 72 00:05:13,003 --> 00:05:17,663 yet. And we kept being like, but what happens when they do ask questions? 73 00:05:17,723 --> 00:05:19,303 What happens when they're holding up to understand? 74 00:05:20,023 --> 00:05:24,143 So we, I mean, my wife's a pediatrician. Her biggest concern was that we wouldn't 75 00:05:24,143 --> 00:05:27,183 know updated medical histories or that we couldn't trust the medical histories. 76 00:05:27,183 --> 00:05:32,163 My biggest concern was that I didn't like the options and also felt like I can't 77 00:05:32,163 --> 00:05:35,363 imagine being a kid wondering a lot of that stuff like I'm a very curious person 78 00:05:35,363 --> 00:05:39,543 and I feel like I can't sit still until I know everything. Me too. 79 00:05:39,803 --> 00:05:46,043 Yeah and so we kind of you know we started doing some research right we started 80 00:05:46,043 --> 00:05:49,723 looking into donor conceived people what they felt because that is kind of the 81 00:05:49,723 --> 00:05:54,283 only way we can really understand what our future kids are are going to feel. 82 00:05:54,863 --> 00:05:57,883 So we really did some deep dives. We talked to a lot of people. 83 00:05:58,083 --> 00:06:01,763 We joined the Facebook group for donor-conceived people. We really read, 84 00:06:02,143 --> 00:06:04,723 yeah, we read like everything we could get our hands on about it. 85 00:06:04,943 --> 00:06:07,543 And we decided we wanted to use a known donor. 86 00:06:08,735 --> 00:06:15,615 After that decision we asked a friend of mine from law school and he is human right yeah perfect, 87 00:06:16,175 --> 00:06:18,935 and we got pretty far in the process with him we tested him 88 00:06:18,935 --> 00:06:22,035

and we ended up not being able to go forward because we had the same gene in 89 00:06:22,035 --> 00:06:24,815 common okay but at that moment i was 90 00:06:24,815 --> 00:06:27,755 like maybe this is not how we should do it either right like 91 00:06:27,755 --> 00:06:30,975 maybe this isn't the perfect way for us either um and 92 00:06:30,975 --> 00:06:33,895 i started thinking about all the mutual friends we have from law school and 93 00:06:33,895 --> 00:06:36,615 all the things that we you know like the relationship we have 94 00:06:36,615 --> 00:06:39,975 with this guy oh the connections and personal connections okay 95 00:06:39,975 --> 00:06:42,935 okay yeah and we kind of thought like it could alter it 96 00:06:42,935 --> 00:06:45,815 like it could change things okay it could be confusion I 97 00:06:45,815 --> 00:06:48,975 mean maybe for some people it's like the best choice and I totally support 98 00:06:48,975 --> 00:06:53,255 that I think a better choice than anonymous for sure but for us we really wanted 99 00:06:53,255 --> 00:06:56,655 someone we could get to know at the same time and one of us didn't the person 100 00:06:56,655 --> 00:07:02,035 better and things like that okay yeah so we started our search and we interviewed 101 00:07:02,035 --> 00:07:07,575 over 200 guys not even joking for ourselves over 200. By yourselves. On your own. 102 00:07:07,955 --> 00:07:11,675 Yep. My wife was in residency and I was at a law firm all the time. 103 00:07:12,315 --> 00:07:16,015 How did you even do that? Like, how did you even find people? 104 00:07:16,415 --> 00:07:19,955 People are like, we found this out, like this community. 105 00:07:20,515 --> 00:07:23,535 Social media? Yeah, social media and like friends of friends of friends. 106 00:07:23,675 --> 00:07:26,515 And we kind of just like shook a piece, right? We asked around. 107 00:07:26,715 --> 00:07:31,075 People knew someone that might be willing to donate that like fit our criteria. 108 00:07:31,735 --> 00:07:37,935 We interviewed over 200 people. And we landed on the most perfect donor. 109 00:07:38,035 --> 00:07:39,555 Like we could not adore him more. 110 00:07:39,815 --> 00:07:43,275 He has like even little things that we have like in common with us. 111 00:07:43,355 --> 00:07:47,715 And like, we've all loved Nutella, right? Like who even thought that that would matter? 112 00:07:47,835 --> 00:07:51,055 But for us, we all have like a total obsession with it. 113 00:07:51,335 --> 00:07:55,395 Bonding over something. That's important. Yeah. And like he has this beautiful, 114 00:07:55,455 --> 00:07:58,035 he had a beautiful relationship with his grandmother who recently passed. 115 00:07:58,235 --> 00:08:01,715 And I also so had that. And my wife had that with a grandfather and like, 116 00:08:01,715 --> 00:08:05,795 it was really important to know that like, you know, we found someone who also 117 00:08:05,795 --> 00:08:08,215 feels that value towards like family and stuff. 118 00:08:09,546 --> 00:08:13,546 Was your interview process intensive or was it kind of more casual talking or 119 00:08:13,546 --> 00:08:15,026 was it like a systematic? 120 00:08:16,046 --> 00:08:20,626 Yeah, I would say both. I would say like it's just a conversation at first, 121 00:08:20,706 --> 00:08:22,946 but then when we started talking about medical history, it was a little bit 122 00:08:22,946 --> 00:08:26,026 more formatted because there was something we wanted to make sure that we knew. 123 00:08:26,506 --> 00:08:30,706 Got it. Okay. Yeah. So we felt like you did, right? Like there's no resources 124 00:08:30,706 --> 00:08:32,626 for this. It feels impossible. 125 00:08:32,726 --> 00:08:37,186 Like we had so many hurdles thrown at us and we were like, if we were any other 126 00:08:37,186 --> 00:08:40,406 person, we probably would have given up, right? right? There's like not... 127 00:08:40,406 --> 00:08:41,186 I think that happens a lot. 128 00:08:41,346 --> 00:08:44,326 I think people give up a lot. Yeah. And I get it. 129 00:08:45,826 --> 00:08:49,166 It's really hard. Can you tell me about some of the hurdles? Yeah. 130 00:08:49,546 --> 00:08:55,466 We were first with a clinic, a fertility clinic that said that they wouldn't accept known donors. 131 00:08:55,886 --> 00:08:58,806 Just period and a story? Yeah. They said, you have to go through a sperm bank. 132 00:08:59,166 --> 00:09:03,026 And we pushed back and they finally said, well, you can use a known donor, 133 00:09:03,106 --> 00:09:04,966 but they have to donate at a sperm bank. 134 00:09:05,586 --> 00:09:08,046 And we were like, well, what if we don't want to deal with sperm banks at all? 135 00:09:08,046 --> 00:09:12,466 Can't the donor donate to a clinic like you have the same things that they do? 136 00:09:12,586 --> 00:09:16,366 So we switched clinics after that and had a hard time. 137 00:09:17,506 --> 00:09:21,406 Another hurdle was that no one was really telling us all the steps that were necessary. 138 00:09:21,706 --> 00:09:24,326 So we'd be like, okay, I think we're ready to start the donations. 139 00:09:24,426 --> 00:09:26,366 And they'd be like, wait a second. Did you do this? 140 00:09:26,946 --> 00:09:30,506 Did you do that? Yeah. And that's great. I love that all those things are in 141 00:09:30,506 --> 00:09:32,226 place. I think they're all there for a reason. 142 00:09:32,386 --> 00:09:36,106 But someone needs to kind of explain what the steps are and how to go through 143 00:09:36,106 --> 00:09:37,526 them in what order and all that stuff. 144 00:09:38,046 --> 00:09:41,926 Now, is it because they didn't, the clinics themselves didn't know the steps 145 00:09:41,926 --> 00:09:44,966 or because they just didn't have the staff to educate and didn't take the time 146 00:09:44,966 --> 00:09:47,806 to educate you on those steps? What do you know? Or was it a combination? 147 00:09:48,066 --> 00:09:51,486 I think probably a combination because a lot of people

don't end up using known 148 00:09:51,486 --> 00:09:53,766 donors, right? They go through the banks, but they're used to that. 149 00:09:53,866 --> 00:09:58,906 I do think there's about one person on staff at every clinic that handles people 150 00:09:58,906 --> 00:10:01,866 who want to use known donors. Or donor period. 151 00:10:02,740 --> 00:10:06,680 No, I think more, well, maybe donor period, but really the donor period is just 152 00:10:06,680 --> 00:10:09,980 accepting the vials of sperm from a sperm bank, right? Okay, 153 00:10:10,120 --> 00:10:11,420 okay. There's not too much to that. 154 00:10:11,700 --> 00:10:14,460 Or coordinating the, getting the psych vials and stuff, because I'll have like 155 00:10:14,460 --> 00:10:16,340 that, my point person that I send my reports to. 156 00:10:16,500 --> 00:10:20,080 Yeah, yeah. And a lot of times their title is third party or donor coordinator. 157 00:10:21,060 --> 00:10:24,620 Exactly. So they really only have one or two of those at every clinic. 158 00:10:25,260 --> 00:10:28,640 So yeah, it was just like, it was hard, right? There was so many things. 159 00:10:28,640 --> 00:10:33,180 We just felt like we kept thinking we were done and then there's another thing 160 00:10:33,180 --> 00:10:34,500 and there's another thing and there's another thing. 161 00:10:34,580 --> 00:10:37,520 And it was even more complicated because our donor lives in Italy. 162 00:10:37,720 --> 00:10:39,240 And so we had to fly him back for stuff. 163 00:10:39,460 --> 00:10:43,200 And we really had to get a grasp on everything that was needed because we didn't 164 00:10:43,200 --> 00:10:46,020 want to keep bothering him being like, there's another step and another step. 165 00:10:46,440 --> 00:10:51,260 So through doing that, we were like, we need to make this more accessible to people. 166 00:10:51,320 --> 00:10:54,440 We need to offer a way to meet known donors 167 00:10:54,440 --> 00:10:57,900 and a way to go through the steps without out 168 00:10:57,900 --> 00:11:01,000 absolutely feeling desperate and like just on 169 00:11:01,000 --> 00:11:04,660 your own and lost and confused and yeah 170 00:11:04,660 --> 00:11:07,760 and no one's really there to support you right because in fact you might have 171 00:11:07,760 --> 00:11:10,680 the opposite which is oh this is too much work i've i know i've had people tell 172 00:11:10,680 --> 00:11:14,660 me that their doctors told them not to do no donation because it's too much 173 00:11:14,660 --> 00:11:18,820 work and it's costs a lot more money is what they say too i've heard that yeah 174 00:11:18,820 --> 00:11:23,580 not quite accurate but yeah i mean it all depends on how many vials you you need, right? 175 00:11:23,680 --> 00:11:26,900 Like it's hard to buy it until you know how many vials you'll end up using. 176 00:11:27,020 --> 00:11:29,280 But yeah, it was hard for me to understand why it would be more. 177 00:11:29,360 --> 00:11:34,760 I remember going, why is it

more to use a known donor when there isn't profit 178 00:11:34,760 --> 00:11:38,700 margin that the banks, you know, you take out the profit margin from the banks. 179 00:11:38,800 --> 00:11:40,520 Why is it more? It made no sense to me. 180 00:11:41,040 --> 00:11:43,460 Yeah. Can you help me understand that? 181 00:11:44,160 --> 00:11:48,060 So legal fees, right? You wouldn't need to hire a lawyer if you were going through 182 00:11:48,060 --> 00:11:51,740 the banks and you do need a lawyer and the donor should have his own lawyer 183 00:11:51,740 --> 00:11:56,300 as well. So you're looking at like $1,500 to $2,000 for both lawyers in that range. 184 00:11:56,620 --> 00:12:00,020 And that's because with the sperm bank, they already have the sort of the contracts 185 00:12:00,020 --> 00:12:00,940 that are already developed. 186 00:12:01,360 --> 00:12:06,680 So sperm banks have an agreement with the donor and you don't know the donor's identity. 187 00:12:06,860 --> 00:12:09,880 So it's impossible to enter into an agreement with someone where you don't even 188 00:12:09,880 --> 00:12:11,120 know the name of the person. 189 00:12:11,320 --> 00:12:15,760 So you're just buying from the sperm bank, agreeing that you won't even ever 190 00:12:15,760 --> 00:12:19,120 try to contact the person until your kids are 18 at the minimum. 191 00:12:19,360 --> 00:12:23,620 And then after 18, there's no custody issues, right? There's no custody period. 192 00:12:23,800 --> 00:12:26,100 It still seems undefined. Yeah. 193 00:12:26,640 --> 00:12:29,640 So like, so are they really protected going through a bank? 194 00:12:29,720 --> 00:12:34,920 I totally get that because I, part of like, I view it and I don't have a legal 195 00:12:34,920 --> 00:12:37,360 background in exactly this, but I have a legal background in general. 196 00:12:37,420 --> 00:12:41,800 And I view it as like a part of contract between two parties is safer than a 197 00:12:41,800 --> 00:12:46,020 contract between a third party who has a contract with that party. 198 00:12:46,100 --> 00:12:49,820 Right. It seems like more direct to just go right to the source, 199 00:12:49,820 --> 00:12:51,960 have a contract with them. You are not the parent. 200 00:12:52,712 --> 00:12:55,752 You don't ever owe us child support. Like very, yeah, right? 201 00:12:56,372 --> 00:13:00,272 Yeah. I don't know the answer. I think what the banks are relying on is that 202 00:13:00,272 --> 00:13:04,392 no one will know of the identity of the donor until kids are 18. 203 00:13:04,552 --> 00:13:10,092 And by then there's no issue. But there's 20. We know that's over now. We know that's so over. 204 00:13:10,212 --> 00:13:12,972 And so it's like, I'm kind of like you, it's like having the contract direct 205 00:13:12,972 --> 00:13:17,612 with your donor feels, with your known donor feels more secure in the long run. 206 00:13:18,012 --> 00:13:20,872 Yeah, I agree. Yeah, in the beginning. planning so yeah tell 207 00:13:20,872 --> 00:13:24,032 me more about that parental rights and 208 00:13:24,032 --> 00:13:26,932 and that contract where you can relinquish where the 209 00:13:26,932 --> 00:13:30,372 donor relinquishes parental rights and you can feel confident as you 210 00:13:30,372 --> 00:13:33,212 know two parents in or a single parent that 211 00:13:33,212 --> 00:13:36,292 you can feel confident in your parental rights and it won't be taken away from 212 00:13:36,292 --> 00:13:41,072 you yeah i think there's a lot of like checks and balances in this whole system 213 00:13:41,072 --> 00:13:45,632 right if it's done the right way i think the first step is having a lawyer who 214 00:13:45,632 --> 00:13:50,272 drafts the agreement not pulling a random agreement offline and editing it yourself, 215 00:13:50,492 --> 00:13:52,012 right? No templates, no templates, yeah. 216 00:13:53,512 --> 00:13:58,052 So hiring a lawyer to draft the agreement, then making sure the donor gets a 217 00:13:58,052 --> 00:14:01,792 lawyer for himself to make sure he's under a separate lawyer, 218 00:14:01,912 --> 00:14:06,052 not part of the same firm, nothing like about it, right? So there's no conflict. 219 00:14:06,252 --> 00:14:10,252 Absolutely. And making sure he has totally understands everything about that 220 00:14:10,252 --> 00:14:11,312 agreement so that there's no 221 00:14:11,312 --> 00:14:14,212 way a donor can come back in the future and say, I didn't really get it. 222 00:14:14,232 --> 00:14:16,972 I didn't have a lawyer explaining it to me, right? We want them to have a lawyer. 223 00:14:17,052 --> 00:14:18,592 We want them to feel like they have their own answer. 224 00:14:18,992 --> 00:14:22,952 The third part is the psychological evaluations. 225 00:14:23,172 --> 00:14:26,872 And you can speak to this way better than I can, obviously. But having someone 226 00:14:26,872 --> 00:14:33,432 that has a background in this that has met with a donor and says, I've talked to him. 227 00:14:33,492 --> 00:14:36,312 He understands he's not a parent. He understands he's a donor. 228 00:14:36,452 --> 00:14:38,852 He's of a safe age. He's not 18. 229 00:14:39,632 --> 00:14:44,872 He's of a good mindset. There's no big red flags that make me think he can't make a decision. right? 230 00:14:45,332 --> 00:14:48,812 Having that is an extra safety net for the legal agreement. 231 00:14:48,912 --> 00:14:51,832 It is something that like you could always be called as an expert witness to 232 00:14:51,832 --> 00:14:55,012 like talk about when you met the donor, you could, your report could be used, 233 00:14:55,092 --> 00:14:57,372 right? Like all of that. Right. Then we get to the part. 234 00:14:58,033 --> 00:15:02,293 Of second parent adoption. That is a bolster in all of it, right? 235 00:15:02,433 --> 00:15:05,733 You are literally, the other parent who's not genetically related, 236 00:15:05,833 --> 00:15:11,073 if there is one, is adopting the child so that the same rights

as an adopted 237 00:15:11,073 --> 00:15:13,453 child in like a family. Legal rights. 238 00:15:13,513 --> 00:15:16,893 We did that with our daughter and there were no questions. 239 00:15:17,173 --> 00:15:21,533 Yeah. Yeah. Because that's, I mean, otherwise how could adoptions happen? 240 00:15:21,693 --> 00:15:25,973 Like everyone would be so scared of adopting if their rights could not be protected, Right. 241 00:15:26,053 --> 00:15:31,133 So it's the same as this. So you, I mean, there's like five things you can do, 242 00:15:31,153 --> 00:15:34,553 you know, to make sure that you can talk about what you're offering now and 243 00:15:34,553 --> 00:15:39,133 that people can actually have like someone to help them through this process. 244 00:15:39,533 --> 00:15:43,173 So we are like kind of a full service agency, right? 245 00:15:43,213 --> 00:15:46,453 So you come to us and you say like, we really want to use a known donor for 246 00:15:46,453 --> 00:15:48,153 these reasons, whatever the reasons are. 247 00:15:48,253 --> 00:15:50,973 And we don't have anyone in our life that we want to use. 248 00:15:51,073 --> 00:15:56,273 So like, is there some way that you can help us? And so we basically give people 249 00:15:56,273 --> 00:15:58,013 a lot of options that match their criteria. 250 00:15:58,233 --> 00:16:01,613 They look at the options. They decide who their favorite options are. 251 00:16:01,653 --> 00:16:03,493 They get more information on those options. 252 00:16:03,713 --> 00:16:07,133 And what they're getting is like family pictures, right? Like parents, 253 00:16:07,193 --> 00:16:09,293 siblings, like getting to know what the whole family looks like, 254 00:16:09,373 --> 00:16:10,733 which Sperming's don't offer. 255 00:16:10,993 --> 00:16:16,413 Baby pictures and adult pictures, not just baby pictures or just one picture as an adult. 256 00:16:16,853 --> 00:16:19,653 Information like what their siblings do for jobs, what their parents do for 257 00:16:19,653 --> 00:16:23,753 jobs, like what they were like as a kid. just like getting a full picture of who this person is. 258 00:16:24,133 --> 00:16:27,673 Then they decide two people they want to meet with and they move forward with one. 259 00:16:29,091 --> 00:16:32,711 Two people. Okay. And that's because sometimes things don't work out with one, 260 00:16:32,871 --> 00:16:33,851 their first pick, right? 261 00:16:33,891 --> 00:16:37,151 It's because I think like meeting with two and being able to contrast them and 262 00:16:37,151 --> 00:16:40,371 to decide like what personality is better for them is like better than just 263 00:16:40,371 --> 00:16:43,331 picking one and then feeling obligated to move forward with that one. 264 00:16:43,891 --> 00:16:47,591 Yeah. I actually, in the process of talking to people, parents that are choosing, 265 00:16:47,771 --> 00:16:49,411 I actually, that's very common. 266 00:16:49,751 --> 00:16:52,451 They'll come to me and they'll say, we've narrowed it down to two. 267 00:16:52,971 --> 00:16:55,211 It's kind of nice to do that because then you're like, okay, 268 00:16:55,311 --> 00:16:59,071 I have one of these two, but here are the both of them. So yeah, 269 00:16:59,191 --> 00:17:00,851 then we help them through all the steps. 270 00:17:01,091 --> 00:17:03,031 So we find clinics for the donor 271 00:17:03,031 --> 00:17:06,791 to donate with. We find a place for the donor to do a semen analysis. 272 00:17:07,011 --> 00:17:10,991 We make sure that they do the genetic testing if needed, if they have a carrier. Okay. 273 00:17:11,431 --> 00:17:16,071 We make sure that... Do they have to do it every time? Is it standard that they 274 00:17:16,071 --> 00:17:18,591 do that carrier screening or does it depend on the facility? 275 00:17:18,871 --> 00:17:22,471 It is standard that they recommend it. I think that there's probably religious 276 00:17:22,471 --> 00:17:25,931 reasons that some people say they don't want to do it and I haven't... 277 00:17:25,931 --> 00:17:28,851 That they're okay are they able to be exempt 278 00:17:28,851 --> 00:17:32,251 for that i think religious yeah i think that's okay um okay 279 00:17:32,251 --> 00:17:34,911 it's like the same reason that if someone does ivf they don't want to 280 00:17:34,911 --> 00:17:37,791 test embryos because they would still use the embryo anyway 281 00:17:37,791 --> 00:17:40,511 because they've you know so oh got it got it yeah 282 00:17:40,511 --> 00:17:43,211 okay so we help them through 283 00:17:43,211 --> 00:17:45,931 all the steps we help them find providers we help them find lawyers we help 284 00:17:45,931 --> 00:17:48,791 them find everyone that they need to make sure they go on 285 00:17:48,791 --> 00:17:51,631 the steps we do everything except for making the appointments 286 00:17:51,631 --> 00:17:54,651 right and like they pay correctly to the providers so 287 00:17:54,651 --> 00:17:57,811 that we don't have to yeah you know yeah that's important that they do that 288 00:17:57,811 --> 00:18:01,071 too anyway because i know i sometimes i have agencies reach out and try to make 289 00:18:01,071 --> 00:18:05,331 an appointment for their people their their parents are their carriers and then 290 00:18:05,331 --> 00:18:09,091 that person things get lost so it's like it's better if they just make it for 291 00:18:09,091 --> 00:18:14,071 themselves yeah plus consent too they need to be able to do consent for themselves as well so. 292 00:18:14,831 --> 00:18:18,291 Yeah. So then you are, I love that. And I can already hear parents out there 293 00:18:18,291 --> 00:18:20,211 that I've worked with in the past going, where were you? 294 00:18:20,591 --> 00:18:23,451 Where were you? Because I needed you. 295 00:18:24,091 --> 00:18:26,871 And yeah, I mean, I think it's such a great service because it's so complex 296 00:18:26,871 --> 00:18:29,571 and there's so many things that you don't know. 297 00:18:29,711 --> 00:18:32,631 So

it's nice to have you supporting them through that. And it's hard to know 298 00:18:32,631 --> 00:18:33,671 what questions to ask, right? 299 00:18:33,731 --> 00:18:37,371 Like if you're calling a clinic for a donor to donate, to be able to say, 300 00:18:37,431 --> 00:18:41,151 like, do you have a quarantine period? Like, you know, how do you work with another clinic? 301 00:18:44,491 --> 00:18:47,951 Like with that. So true. There's so many times clients will call me and they 302 00:18:47,951 --> 00:18:50,671 don't even know what their clinic needs. 303 00:18:51,531 --> 00:18:54,771 I'm just like, oh gosh, I've always thought a facilitator that will help people 304 00:18:54,771 --> 00:18:58,671 through this process would be amazing. So it sounds like that is really the role you take on. 305 00:18:58,971 --> 00:19:03,731 And then the, so, and you saw, so you saw this need, you saw you guys have this 306 00:19:03,731 --> 00:19:06,551 need, and then you thought, we can do this. We can provide this. 307 00:19:06,671 --> 00:19:11,051 And you learned so much along the way, right? In your own process that just 308 00:19:11,051 --> 00:19:14,531 that knowledge you got, you go like, like, I can help someone else with this knowledge now. 309 00:19:14,851 --> 00:19:18,831 Yeah, I know. I feel like we've figured this out, right? We figured out all 310 00:19:18,831 --> 00:19:20,091 the bumps that could come up. 311 00:19:20,151 --> 00:19:23,251 We figured out how to vet for them before to make sure that they're not going 312 00:19:23,251 --> 00:19:26,311 to happen so people don't feel like they're too deep into one clinic. 313 00:19:26,411 --> 00:19:30,011 And then the clinic says, well, actually, we need these 10 steps that nowhere else needs. 314 00:19:30,211 --> 00:19:34,631 And then they have to do all those. So we've really figured out the system and 315 00:19:34,631 --> 00:19:38,631 figured out how to manage it as much as possible. There's always some things we can't foresee. 316 00:19:39,171 --> 00:19:42,831 Well, that's just the process itself. you know, fertility treatments just in 317 00:19:42,831 --> 00:19:44,991 general are so twisty and turny. 318 00:19:45,411 --> 00:19:49,491 What, how many, like, so right now when you say like you can match people or 319 00:19:49,491 --> 00:19:53,311 just give them choices, do you have a list of donors you're working from? 320 00:19:53,471 --> 00:19:56,351 Do you have kind of like, are you getting in new donors? 321 00:19:56,431 --> 00:19:59,691 How does that process work on your side? Yeah. So we have almost 200, 322 00:19:59,731 --> 00:20:04,551 actually we might've surpassed 200 in the last like, we have 200 to choose from. 323 00:20:05,371 --> 00:20:09,111 Obviously of like many different ethnicities, backgrounds, hair colors, everything. 324 00:20:09,351 --> 00:20:13,391 But once I see what people are looking for, I give them as many... 325 00:20:13,859 --> 00:20:16,959 Choices that's humanly possible, right? Like I don't cap people like a certain 326 00:20:16,959 --> 00:20:20,079 amount. I just give them everyone that might fit their criteria and they tell 327 00:20:20,079 --> 00:20:21,299 me who they'd like to move forward with. 328 00:20:21,499 --> 00:20:24,899 We are constantly adding to that list. I was literally just on the phone with 329 00:20:24,899 --> 00:20:26,539 the donor who and taking his information. 330 00:20:26,759 --> 00:20:29,859 So we're constantly adding to it. Like how do they find you? 331 00:20:29,959 --> 00:20:33,799 A lot of them is word of mouth, right? So one donor who's donated for us, 332 00:20:33,839 --> 00:20:37,139 like asked around his friends or tells them that he donated and they're like, 333 00:20:37,159 --> 00:20:38,679 I would do that. That sounds amazing. thing. 334 00:20:38,839 --> 00:20:42,219 And a lot of it is that a lot of them are gay men. 335 00:20:42,499 --> 00:20:46,099 And sperm banks do not allow gay men to donate. 336 00:20:46,899 --> 00:20:50,639 That's right. They don't, which is, it's FDA. It is FDA. Yeah. 337 00:20:51,139 --> 00:20:56,159 It's not even in the FDA regulations. It's that they would fail the FDA questionnaire 338 00:20:56,159 --> 00:20:59,219 if they answered that they've had sex with a man in the last five years. 339 00:20:59,259 --> 00:21:00,499 Yeah, which is so long-term. 340 00:21:01,119 --> 00:21:02,759 It's so outdated. 341 00:21:03,379 --> 00:21:08,479 I mean, It's unbelievable, and it's not because the government moves so slow. 342 00:21:08,619 --> 00:21:09,739 That's how the government moves. 343 00:21:09,999 --> 00:21:12,899 So you would think that if they're going to fix that for blood donations, 344 00:21:12,959 --> 00:21:16,179 that they would also fix it for this? I'm surprised it didn't happen. 345 00:21:16,439 --> 00:21:21,199 Are you finding that gay men, this is a way they can help another family, 346 00:21:21,239 --> 00:21:27,479 create a family while also being part of it and somewhat? 347 00:21:27,659 --> 00:21:30,699 And tell me a little bit about being part of it, because I think right now I 348 00:21:30,699 --> 00:21:34,479 hear the objections to it. But no, we don't want to know this person. 349 00:21:34,539 --> 00:21:35,739 We don't want them in our life. 350 00:21:35,899 --> 00:21:40,799 We, this isn't, you know, and that can be really kind of scary and a lot for people. 351 00:21:40,919 --> 00:21:44,779 So do you want to, if we can, talk a little bit about that? Yeah, so I'll start there. 352 00:21:44,939 --> 00:21:48,559 So the only thing that parents have to agree to working with us is that they 353 00:21:48,559 --> 00:21:51,439 will give the donor a once a year update about kids. 354 00:21:51,984 --> 00:21:55,404 It can be a text message with a picture saying like, you know, 355 00:21:55,404 --> 00:21:57,944 she's in kindergarten, she loves music, whatever the little. 356 00:21:58,284 --> 00:21:58,964 Yeah, something simple. 357 00:21:59,564

--> 00:22:03,784 Part of the reason is because a big part of why donors are willing to donate 358 00:22:03,784 --> 00:22:08,324 with us versus like somewhere else is that they get to have that happiness of 359 00:22:08,324 --> 00:22:12,884 knowing that kids think that they're being like well-raised, that they are happy. 360 00:22:12,984 --> 00:22:16,284 Right. And like, do they have anything in common with the kids? 361 00:22:16,364 --> 00:22:19,384 Right. Like, did they get their musical ability? Did they like play baseball? ball. 362 00:22:19,844 --> 00:22:22,544 There's something biological to want to know. It's powerful. 363 00:22:22,784 --> 00:22:26,664 It's powerful. Do you find that that is a big motivation? 364 00:22:27,044 --> 00:22:30,244 I would say it's a huge motivation. Yeah. I think it's something where people 365 00:22:30,244 --> 00:22:33,964 are like... I love that they care. Yeah. They really care. I think they're like... Yeah. 366 00:22:34,044 --> 00:22:37,684 It's very nice for them to know that they get to feel happy about their decision 367 00:22:37,684 --> 00:22:41,744 to do this for years to come. It's not just wondering what happened. 368 00:22:41,884 --> 00:22:46,664 It's like being invested, but not overly invested. No. And that's the line we're walking. 369 00:22:46,784 --> 00:22:49,264 Okay. Let's talk about that line line. Cause I think that's what everybody gets 370 00:22:49,264 --> 00:22:52,584 scared of is like, it's either this or that, but there's like so much in between, 371 00:22:52,624 --> 00:22:53,804 you know, that you can have. 372 00:22:53,944 --> 00:22:58,524 So basically what I tell donors is like, if you're okay with that minimum, then like amazing. 373 00:22:58,764 --> 00:23:01,724 Like if you're okay with just getting a once a year update and maybe even never 374 00:23:01,724 --> 00:23:04,764 meeting the kids, like that is great. Then like you can, you qualify. 375 00:23:05,564 --> 00:23:08,764 But what I also tell donors is that there are a lot of families, 376 00:23:08,884 --> 00:23:13,124 cause there are some of our families that are, would even prefer more than that. 377 00:23:13,244 --> 00:23:17,024 They'd prefer to let kids get to know the donor at a young age so that they 378 00:23:17,024 --> 00:23:18,544 don't have have these underlying questions. 379 00:23:18,744 --> 00:23:22,764 They prefer to, as soon as kids start asking questions, to be able to answer 380 00:23:22,764 --> 00:23:24,084 them or have him answer them. 381 00:23:24,584 --> 00:23:29,084 And I just say, this is something you all should talk about during your call. 382 00:23:29,244 --> 00:23:34,204 What's the ideal situation for everyone? And making sure everyone feels comfortable with that. 383 00:23:35,024 --> 00:23:39,084 But what I also do is I, part of the reason that we have that once a year update, 384 00:23:39,584 --> 00:23:44,924 is that I really, really, really want kids to get an updated medical history. 385 00:23:44,924 --> 00:23:47,924 Half of their genes come from this person, right? 386 00:23:48,996 --> 00:23:51,796 Unfathomable that like they don't know half of 387 00:23:51,796 --> 00:23:54,476 their medical history for 18 years or more or for the 388 00:23:54,476 --> 00:23:57,636 rest of their life it's it's hard because you go through i mean as an adoptee 389 00:23:57,636 --> 00:24:01,636 and i didn't have any of it it was like this there was this unknown it's like 390 00:24:01,636 --> 00:24:05,476 you never know like am i at risk for cancer am i at risk with i have no idea 391 00:24:05,476 --> 00:24:09,976 and it makes you just feel very powerless like you can't take the action or 392 00:24:09,976 --> 00:24:14,276 the prevention that you that you need to and so with your daughter Just wondering, 393 00:24:14,476 --> 00:24:16,936 is she safe? Is she getting better? 394 00:24:17,096 --> 00:24:19,356 And as a parent, especially, that 395 00:24:19,356 --> 00:24:24,196 weighs on you so much. I might not be protecting my kid in the best way. 396 00:24:24,416 --> 00:24:27,456 And so we really, really wanted to fix this. 397 00:24:27,656 --> 00:24:32,756 And so generally speaking, unlike sperm banks, what we do is we tell them they 398 00:24:32,756 --> 00:24:38,236 qualify no matter what to be a donor, no matter what their medical history is. 399 00:24:38,236 --> 00:24:41,676 What it also does is it makes them more honest about their medical history. 400 00:24:41,796 --> 00:24:45,736 And everyone has medical history. All of us have it. I probably wouldn't qualify 401 00:24:45,736 --> 00:24:48,256 as an egg donor, right? But everyone has it. 402 00:24:48,336 --> 00:24:54,816 And what I want to do is give them a safe place to say it without them feeling 403 00:24:54,816 --> 00:24:56,476 like it's going to disqualify them. 404 00:24:56,536 --> 00:24:59,276 Because I think where sperm banks run into issues is they say, 405 00:24:59,356 --> 00:25:03,396 we only accept 0.1% of people who apply and you have to have a perfect medical history. 406 00:25:03,756 --> 00:25:06,796 Of course, people are going to come in and say, yep, perfect medical history. 407 00:25:06,936 --> 00:25:10,096 I don't know anything. And what a weird thing to do. 408 00:25:10,296 --> 00:25:19,256 We only accept point, we accept the best of the best, but like you don't know for sure. 409 00:25:19,496 --> 00:25:23,216 Like you said, it's self-report. So you don't know, you're not verifying their 410 00:25:23,216 --> 00:25:26,876 medical history. So you don't know if they really are that great. 411 00:25:27,296 --> 00:25:32,776 And why the only reason you're having to say they're the cream of the crop is 412 00:25:32,776 --> 00:25:35,756 because you're keeping parents away from them, right? 413 00:25:35,956 --> 00:25:38,496 No pun intended. It's because you're keeping them apart. 414 00:25:39,588 --> 00:25:46,788 So you're having to guarantee or create this appearance of a system that's

somehow 415 00:25:46,788 --> 00:25:52,208 protecting the recipient parent, but really you're keeping this information from them. 416 00:25:53,548 --> 00:25:56,528 It doesn't have to be perfect. The donors don't have to be perfect. 417 00:25:56,668 --> 00:26:00,648 We just need to know information. We just need to know what's going on. 418 00:26:01,008 --> 00:26:05,208 That's it. Yeah. And be able to screen for it. And a lot of times it's environmental, 419 00:26:05,448 --> 00:26:08,188 right? A grandparent has lung cancer because they were a smoker. 420 00:26:08,748 --> 00:26:13,868 As long as we know the background of why, then people can use their own judgment 421 00:26:13,868 --> 00:26:17,048 or research to decide that it's not a problem for them. Or it's like anxiety 422 00:26:17,048 --> 00:26:19,128 runs in my family. And you know what? 423 00:26:19,488 --> 00:26:24,008 That's okay because if the donor has anxiety and takes medication for it, who cares? 424 00:26:24,168 --> 00:26:28,848 Because we all have anxiety. They'll fit in just great. It doesn't have to be 425 00:26:28,848 --> 00:26:32,988 a disqualifier, but a lot of times people are disqualified if they take medication 426 00:26:32,988 --> 00:26:35,928 for depression or anxiety, they're disqualified. 427 00:26:36,188 --> 00:26:39,908 What? Like a lot of people take medication for anxiety and depression. 428 00:26:40,348 --> 00:26:44,148 It's just, it's, it's weird criteria that people are being disqualified for. 429 00:26:44,508 --> 00:26:48,468 So. I agree. Yeah. And height too. It's like. They did change that recently, 430 00:26:48,508 --> 00:26:50,868 but yeah, for many years they had to be over like six feet tall. 431 00:26:51,288 --> 00:26:54,748 And it's crazy because you get half your jeans from the other, 432 00:26:54,748 --> 00:26:56,328 another side that you could be. 433 00:26:56,468 --> 00:26:59,228 Right. So it didn't make make no sense. It doesn't make any sense. 434 00:26:59,348 --> 00:27:01,708 It's just, it's a marketing. Also, I've had a lot of clients come to me. 435 00:27:02,188 --> 00:27:05,428 Yeah. Yeah. I've had a lot of clients come to me saying we would prefer a short 436 00:27:05,428 --> 00:27:07,908 donor, like five, six to five, 10. 437 00:27:08,008 --> 00:27:10,828 And I'm like, oh, you wouldn't have even been able to find that. 438 00:27:10,868 --> 00:27:12,028 I don't know. It didn't exist. 439 00:27:13,368 --> 00:27:16,148 So it's just, yeah, it really is. So yeah. 440 00:27:16,208 --> 00:27:19,788 So the benefits also is, so you get to know this person, you get to pick the 441 00:27:19,788 --> 00:27:22,048 person, you meet them before you choose them. 442 00:27:22,781 --> 00:27:25,661 Yes, you meet them before you choose them. And it has to be a mutual match. 443 00:27:25,841 --> 00:27:30,301 Okay. The donor also has to feel comfortable because we don't want this to be 444 00:27:30,301 --> 00:27:31,841 a blank check for their DNA. 445 00:27:31,961 --> 00:27:35,581 And obviously, if something went wrong, I would offer another match. That's no problem. 446 00:27:35,881 --> 00:27:39,721 But I really want to make sure that all parties feel comfortable because it's 447 00:27:39,721 --> 00:27:43,821 not a fun experience for anyone if one party is reluctant or unhappy. 448 00:27:44,241 --> 00:27:49,081 Now, does that do your recipient parents, prospective parents get nervous about being chosen? 449 00:27:49,201 --> 00:27:52,761 Like, what if they don't like me? they do go through they feel like 450 00:27:52,761 --> 00:27:55,521 it's like a first date they're just like am I going to say the wrong 451 00:27:55,521 --> 00:27:58,821 thing but at the end I think like they feel safer knowing 452 00:27:58,821 --> 00:28:01,701 that the donor also wanted to move forward with them so 453 00:28:01,701 --> 00:28:04,861 they don't feel like like they just feel happier they're like oh he likes us 454 00:28:04,861 --> 00:28:09,521 too like now we like we're even more excited for sure oh my god the happiness 455 00:28:09,521 --> 00:28:13,121 that these people have like once they've all met and they all just like they 456 00:28:13,121 --> 00:28:16,121 realize they have something in common and they all talk about it or we recently 457 00:28:16,121 --> 00:28:18,841 have a client who literally invited their donor to their wedding. 458 00:28:19,401 --> 00:28:24,401 And And he like, you know, teared up and he was like so heartfelt and was just. 459 00:28:24,581 --> 00:28:26,541 You should do videos about showing these stories. 460 00:28:26,841 --> 00:28:32,161 No, I shouldn't. They would be beautiful stories and just to show people and 461 00:28:32,161 --> 00:28:33,701 bring awareness to this. 462 00:28:33,821 --> 00:28:39,001 And, you know, I just saw a TikTok about a girl, a lady, she's got like 9 million followers on TikTok. 463 00:28:39,261 --> 00:28:43,401 And she is, her and her wife, I don't think they're trying yet, 464 00:28:43,461 --> 00:28:47,321 but she was, she had two moms and she knew her donor. 465 00:28:47,321 --> 00:28:50,261 Her donor was a friend of theirs and she always knew 466 00:28:50,261 --> 00:28:53,121 him and he was in their life and he was in her life and 467 00:28:53,121 --> 00:28:57,001 it was just like cool and like this is a story that's out there and we want 468 00:28:57,001 --> 00:29:00,441 to hear more stories like that because instead of the scare stories or the scary 469 00:29:00,441 --> 00:29:04,181 stories where you know people lose custody because you know it doesn't have 470 00:29:04,181 --> 00:29:07,741 to be that way I love that you're out there and and offering this to people 471 00:29:07,741 --> 00:29:11,921 now do you have to spend a lot of time educating people that are are afraid? 472 00:29:13,401 --> 00:29:17,361 I would say like some people ask about the recent cases and if you really look 473 00:29:17,361 --> 00:29:20,701 into the details of the case that you know

everyone is talking about the Oklahoma 474 00:29:20,701 --> 00:29:23,181 case they did everything wrong. 475 00:29:23,501 --> 00:29:27,621 Yeah and just to kind of rehash the that just for those that you're listening 476 00:29:27,621 --> 00:29:32,521 that don't know that case there was a case that where the judge ruled in favor 477 00:29:32,521 --> 00:29:39,141 and granting custody to the the donor but that word donor isn't even accurate 478 00:29:39,141 --> 00:29:40,761 because he wasn't a a donor. 479 00:29:40,841 --> 00:29:43,481 He was the ex-husband of one of the partners. 480 00:29:43,581 --> 00:29:46,921 And right. Oh, I thought they were ex. 481 00:29:47,301 --> 00:29:51,001 So they were still married. I thought that they were, she was remarried and. 482 00:29:51,787 --> 00:29:53,927 But you may not, you tell, tell you what you know. Oh, I don't know. 483 00:29:54,067 --> 00:29:57,067 Yeah. I thought it was that they did like at home insemination. 484 00:29:57,067 --> 00:29:59,747 They did at home insemination. Yeah. We're not sure how. 485 00:30:00,047 --> 00:30:05,707 And then the legal agreement was like a boilerplate legal agreement that didn't 486 00:30:05,707 --> 00:30:07,587 really, where the, where the 487 00:30:07,587 --> 00:30:11,727 woman who was not genetically related to the child didn't even sign it. 488 00:30:11,767 --> 00:30:15,787 She was not even mentioned in the entire agreement. They didn't do second parent adoption. 489 00:30:16,407 --> 00:30:21,087 They didn't do, I think the donor definitely did not have his own lawyer. 490 00:30:21,087 --> 00:30:24,567 So they didn't really go through any ever relinquished parental parental right 491 00:30:24,567 --> 00:30:27,347 from what i understand so this was like a very much like a 492 00:30:27,347 --> 00:30:30,647 didn't go through the steps at all 493 00:30:30,647 --> 00:30:34,087 and what you're doing is actually have a list of steps that you're making sure 494 00:30:34,087 --> 00:30:39,007 people go through to give them that added that protection yeah yeah so that 495 00:30:39,007 --> 00:30:43,707 case is is definitely an outlaw an outlier and it's not to say that you shouldn't 496 00:30:43,707 --> 00:30:48,387 like of course educate yourself get the information information and do all that 497 00:30:48,387 --> 00:30:49,707 you can to protect your family. 498 00:30:49,967 --> 00:30:55,887 But like, make sure that it's not just a scare tactic into forcing you into 499 00:30:55,887 --> 00:30:58,547 thinking that you have to choose to use a bank. 500 00:30:58,907 --> 00:31:02,547 And I want to make it clear, you're not a bank, right? You're not a sperm bank. 501 00:31:02,887 --> 00:31:05,147 Okay. No, we're like a match making service. 502 00:31:05,567 --> 00:31:09,387 And I don't know, like a counselor to help you go through all the steps, 503 00:31:09,487 --> 00:31:11,627 right? We're like a matching agency. 504 00:31:11,927 --> 00:31:15,447 And then do you also help, you said you help with these contracts, 505 00:31:15,447 --> 00:31:21,407 do the clinics accept the contracts or do the clinics want their clients and 506 00:31:21,407 --> 00:31:24,987 patients to sign their own internal contract about the known donation? 507 00:31:25,923 --> 00:31:29,583 They have their own contracts, just saying like you release liability and things 508 00:31:29,583 --> 00:31:33,523 like that. But there's no contract between the donor and the client that has 509 00:31:33,523 --> 00:31:34,443 to go through the clinic. 510 00:31:34,563 --> 00:31:37,463 The only thing the clinic usually asks to see, usually I say, 511 00:31:37,543 --> 00:31:41,703 but so usually they ask to see just a letter from the lawyer saying there is 512 00:31:41,703 --> 00:31:46,043 a contract, both parties had a lawyer and the contract has been signed or notarized 513 00:31:46,043 --> 00:31:47,523 or whatever is necessary in that state. 514 00:31:47,783 --> 00:31:52,963 But I will say that we recently had one clinic that said, please send us your contract. 515 00:31:53,203 --> 00:31:55,823 And the clients were like, excuse me, like that's like a 516 00:31:55,823 --> 00:31:58,523 private document between our parties and like we're not even 517 00:31:58,523 --> 00:32:01,683 like why would you ask for that so that was a little disheartening but 518 00:32:01,683 --> 00:32:04,623 generally speaking they will accept just the letter saying that 519 00:32:04,623 --> 00:32:06,743 there is a contract i'm trying to think is there anything else you can think 520 00:32:06,743 --> 00:32:10,923 of sharing because now i don't want to go off on go back to the question about 521 00:32:10,923 --> 00:32:15,563 gay guys and gay men that are donating and how like what their motives are yes 522 00:32:15,563 --> 00:32:21,463 so i would say most of the men who are the gay men who are donating may want 523 00:32:21,463 --> 00:32:24,503 kids like that's something they're not sure about or just like Like they're not, 524 00:32:24,603 --> 00:32:30,623 they have a later decision point than a lot of biological clock, 525 00:32:30,743 --> 00:32:33,883 but a lot of them understand, they understand the struggle. 526 00:32:33,963 --> 00:32:38,703 They understand what it would be like when they would, or if they had needed a donor. 527 00:32:39,963 --> 00:32:43,103 A lot of them say, we totally get how hard this decision is. 528 00:32:43,163 --> 00:32:46,543 Like we get how it feels impersonal, how there's going to be half siblings. 529 00:32:46,603 --> 00:32:50,243 Like there's all these issues that we also have to grapple with and we want 530 00:32:50,243 --> 00:32:53,723 to help make a difference because like pay it forward, right? right? 531 00:32:53,783 --> 00:32:56,863 Like let's help other people in the way that we would need help one day. 532 00:32:57,643 --> 00:33:00,943 So that would be the biggest reason. I would say most people aren't doing it 533 00:33:00,943 --> 00:33:04,123 for

the money. A lot of them are just like, okay, that's, I don't even care. Like that's fine. 534 00:33:04,243 --> 00:33:07,423 You know, the payment towards donors just to be completely transparent, 535 00:33:07,503 --> 00:33:11,923 it's 5,000 and the cap of families is three families. 536 00:33:11,983 --> 00:33:15,543 So I will never, yeah, $5,000 per family. 537 00:33:15,763 --> 00:33:20,203 I will never, ever, ever match a donor with more than three families. 538 00:33:20,823 --> 00:33:25,003 Yeah. Yeah. And so we want to like really reduce the amount of like half siblings 539 00:33:25,003 --> 00:33:28,043 there are out there for people and just like families that are out there that 540 00:33:28,043 --> 00:33:29,723 they have to all keep track of. That's true. 541 00:33:30,103 --> 00:33:34,123 Yeah. Yeah. So that was our big thing. And I think that's why we kind of upped 542 00:33:34,123 --> 00:33:35,943 the amount like to make it 5,001. 543 00:33:36,003 --> 00:33:39,003 I think it is a lot of time and a lot of these people are professionals and 544 00:33:39,003 --> 00:33:40,223 it's not just like they're in college. 545 00:33:40,243 --> 00:33:43,323 They come, you know, come through after school for like, you know, 546 00:33:43,323 --> 00:33:45,763 in between classes to like donate. 547 00:33:45,883 --> 00:33:48,563 It's a longer process, right? They're going through the legal agreement for 548 00:33:48,563 --> 00:33:52,143 all three clients. They're going through the psychological evaluations for all three clients. 549 00:33:52,263 --> 00:33:56,063 So we wanted to make sure that they were paid fairly for their time. 550 00:33:56,243 --> 00:33:58,283 And also because it's a lifelong decision. 551 00:33:58,483 --> 00:34:02,703 This isn't something where people should be doing it to make a quick $100. It's a... 552 00:34:03,328 --> 00:34:07,368 It's going to take time in their future to connect with kids and everything like that. Exactly. 553 00:34:07,508 --> 00:34:09,948 Yeah, what I was going to say is that makes sense that they have, 554 00:34:10,068 --> 00:34:13,068 they understand that, you know, you need help to have a baby. 555 00:34:13,148 --> 00:34:16,688 And so they want to be, you know, they want to kind of pay it forward in a way. 556 00:34:17,088 --> 00:34:21,448 And then also your point about not recruiting or not having them be college 557 00:34:21,448 --> 00:34:24,048 students and being like 18 years old where they're... 558 00:34:24,648 --> 00:34:27,628 So do you have an age minimum then? Yeah. 559 00:34:27,668 --> 00:34:33,508 So 24 is our youngest donor. And then 42 is our oldest donor currently, 560 00:34:33,728 --> 00:34:36,788 although I don't really have a cap on that as much. 561 00:34:36,888 --> 00:34:40,568 I kind of believe that, you know, parents should be able to decide what age 562 00:34:40,568 --> 00:34:41,288 they're comfortable with. 563 00:34:41,728 --> 00:34:47,028 But yeah, we don't want to accept people who are doing it because they are in 564 00:34:47,028 --> 00:34:49,928 school and they're just kind of like not thinking through the decision. 565 00:34:49,928 --> 00:34:54,668 And also, I really, I do believe that 18-year-olds don't know their medical history. 566 00:34:55,068 --> 00:34:58,428 First of all, they're 18. They don't have their own medical history very much, very often, right? 567 00:34:58,468 --> 00:35:02,328 And the other part is that their parents aren't trusting them with that information at 18. 568 00:35:02,368 --> 00:35:06,608 A lot of, like, parents just kind of wait till boys are older to tell them information. 569 00:35:06,988 --> 00:35:10,088 And at that point, they're not old enough to make a decision like this. 570 00:35:10,168 --> 00:35:12,388 And they're not old enough to know their family medical history. 571 00:35:12,528 --> 00:35:17,488 So I'm, yeah, I will never start asking, like, people and I will never accept 572 00:35:17,488 --> 00:35:19,248 anyone in college. I think that's great. 573 00:35:19,328 --> 00:35:23,208 I think there's a lot of donors that donated at that age and did not realize 574 00:35:23,208 --> 00:35:24,128 what they were getting into. 575 00:35:24,768 --> 00:35:27,748 And now they're kind of dealing with the consequences. And what that leads to 576 00:35:27,748 --> 00:35:31,328 is then in the future, because they didn't sign, they didn't, 577 00:35:31,328 --> 00:35:34,828 they did sign up for it, but they didn't understand the psychosocial aspects of it. 578 00:35:34,888 --> 00:35:38,748 And so they, when a person contacts them to know more about them, 579 00:35:38,788 --> 00:35:41,668 they, it's, it's very common for them to not want contact. 580 00:35:42,659 --> 00:35:49,159 Right. Of course. Yeah. Yeah. So I love that your donors are prepared. They're informed. 581 00:35:49,439 --> 00:35:53,619 They're ready to go. And you talked earlier about, you know, 582 00:35:53,619 --> 00:35:58,139 the matching process and they being mutually accepted. So they both have to agree. 583 00:35:58,439 --> 00:36:01,779 Do they then, they tell you afterward, like, let's say a meeting, 584 00:36:01,899 --> 00:36:04,719 sounds like most of the time it goes pretty well, but let's say one where it's 585 00:36:04,719 --> 00:36:08,279 like, ah, we just didn't quite connect and, you know, great guy or we like each 586 00:36:08,279 --> 00:36:09,679 other, but just didn't connect. 587 00:36:09,759 --> 00:36:14,239 Like, that's not the one. Do they tell you that or do they tell each other that? How does that work? 588 00:36:14,819 --> 00:36:20,239 Yeah. So they do tell me no matter what, like, you know, that didn't work out 589 00:36:20,239 --> 00:36:24,799 for this reason, but they also do have to turn down the donor that they don't move forward with. 590 00:36:24,859 --> 00:36:27,719 I think it's more of a personal connection that way. 591 00:36:27,819 --> 00:36:30,279 Like, I feel like if they just tell me and I tell

them, it's just kind of like, 592 00:36:30,419 --> 00:36:32,899 all right, but the donor took time to talk to you or whatever, right? 593 00:36:32,959 --> 00:36:37,239 So I've never had a donor turn down a client, really. 594 00:36:38,079 --> 00:36:41,899 One of them wanted time to think about it, but they ended ended up picking the other donor anyway. 595 00:36:42,199 --> 00:36:47,259 And then we did actually the other day have a client and a donor that had a whole conversation. 596 00:36:47,439 --> 00:36:50,699 They adored each other. And then they started talking about where they were both from. 597 00:36:50,979 --> 00:36:53,819 And they realized that they grew up in the same neighborhood. 598 00:36:54,059 --> 00:36:56,919 Like both of them live in different areas, but they grew up with like, 599 00:36:56,979 --> 00:36:59,759 they go to the same Target, they go to the same grocery stores. 600 00:37:00,039 --> 00:37:04,019 And they were like, and both of them have parents that still live there and 601 00:37:04,019 --> 00:37:04,999 one lives really close by. 602 00:37:05,099 --> 00:37:08,239 And so they were kind of like, maybe that's probably not Like that's a little 603 00:37:08,239 --> 00:37:10,459 close for comfort. So they both like really agreed. 604 00:37:10,819 --> 00:37:13,499 And so I gave the clients like a different person to meet with. 605 00:37:13,559 --> 00:37:18,139 And they were, but, but yeah, generally speaking, the meetings go so well. 606 00:37:18,179 --> 00:37:21,599 And if I feel like personalities won't get along, I'll kind of give them a heads 607 00:37:21,599 --> 00:37:23,939 up and being like, yeah, I think you should probably lean more towards this 608 00:37:23,939 --> 00:37:25,559 one if it were me, you know, things like that. 609 00:37:25,619 --> 00:37:28,979 But yeah, they would tell me and they would tell each other because I want open 610 00:37:28,979 --> 00:37:30,859 communication and everyone to feel like. 611 00:37:31,713 --> 00:37:35,593 I mean, I like that. It's so much more adult. 612 00:37:36,793 --> 00:37:39,813 We're just talking it. We're working through this stuff. 613 00:37:40,053 --> 00:37:43,693 And also, it's a good precedent to set for that ongoing relationship, 614 00:37:43,973 --> 00:37:47,733 whether it's close, whether it's not close, whether it's just a picture once 615 00:37:47,733 --> 00:37:50,193 a year, or whether it's more information. 616 00:37:50,333 --> 00:37:54,153 It sets a good communication pattern up from the start. 617 00:37:54,713 --> 00:37:58,833 I agree. Yeah. I agree. That's awesome. And respect and everything. Yeah. Very good. good. 618 00:37:59,193 --> 00:38:03,733 Well, yeah, no, I think I'm hoping this is like the way that people do things 619 00:38:03,733 --> 00:38:05,093 even through not through us, right? 620 00:38:05,153 --> 00:38:08,773 Like I'm hoping people really like take the time to think about what kids are 621 00:38:08,773 --> 00:38:13,233 going to feel and what like communication going forward looks like and, 622 00:38:13,293 --> 00:38:17,673 you know, not having kids spend hours and hours like on 23andMe and Ancestry, 623 00:38:17,773 --> 00:38:19,873 like trying to just track everything back, right? 624 00:38:20,073 --> 00:38:24,593 Yeah. And having dozens and dozens of half siblings and not knowing when that's 625 00:38:24,593 --> 00:38:28,633 going going to end, you know, not knowing like I could be 55 and I'm still getting 626 00:38:28,633 --> 00:38:32,393 a new sibling, you know, that's hard because it's just, you don't, 627 00:38:32,393 --> 00:38:34,233 you don't get that point where you can just settle in. 628 00:38:34,313 --> 00:38:37,113 Like, this is my family. This is my story. You're constantly like, 629 00:38:37,173 --> 00:38:38,613 what else? What else? It's the unknown. 630 00:38:39,013 --> 00:38:44,673 Like, yeah. So it's nice that you have that limit to three and then that you can, they can know. 631 00:38:44,793 --> 00:38:48,053 So it's not, they're not developing that fantasy. I talk about sort of when 632 00:38:48,053 --> 00:38:53,093 kids don't know who that significant genetic person is, that they tend to fill 633 00:38:53,093 --> 00:38:56,593 it in with a gap or with an imagination and with their imagination. 634 00:38:56,653 --> 00:39:00,673 And it could be somebody who doesn't really live up to that potential, you know, in their life. 635 00:39:00,833 --> 00:39:04,193 And so then there's these like polarizing viewpoints of this person who's just 636 00:39:04,193 --> 00:39:06,933 a real human. You know, they're going to have flaws. They're going to have strengths. 637 00:39:07,513 --> 00:39:11,733 But as a young child who's trying to make sense of it, it can be hard to know 638 00:39:11,733 --> 00:39:13,693 that when you don't know who that person is. 639 00:39:13,833 --> 00:39:17,593 And so, and then just not having fear of the unknown of what if this person 640 00:39:17,593 --> 00:39:20,993 turns out to be, to not like me, not want to have anything to do with me, 641 00:39:21,113 --> 00:39:24,273 you know, deny I exist, or it's just a bad person, you know? 642 00:39:24,313 --> 00:39:27,613 So yeah, those are all things that you can kind of, you know, 643 00:39:27,613 --> 00:39:31,153 not to say that, you know, you're always going to be close with your donor. 644 00:39:31,293 --> 00:39:35,373 I mean, like I talk about, relationships can ebb and flow and you might go a 645 00:39:35,373 --> 00:39:36,713 distance and that's okay. 646 00:39:36,853 --> 00:39:40,593 It's just that, you know, it's not a complete mystery of who that person is. 647 00:39:40,733 --> 00:39:43,933 Yeah. Yeah. And even at the very minimum, right? Kids can say, 648 00:39:44,013 --> 00:39:46,393 well, tell me about my donor, right? Tell me what he was like. 649 00:39:46,493 --> 00:39:49,013 And you can say, I met him. He was amazing. 650 00:39:49,193 --> 00:39:52,313 We talked about this. Like we took

this video after to like talk about about 651 00:39:52,313 --> 00:39:55,233 how excited we were. We went and met him. We have a picture with him. 652 00:39:55,313 --> 00:40:00,493 Like there is so much like that can be said to just having a story about this 653 00:40:00,493 --> 00:40:01,913 person. Yeah, because that's what we do. 654 00:40:01,993 --> 00:40:04,393 That's what family life is really is storytelling. Yeah. 655 00:40:05,165 --> 00:40:08,345 Right. Like imagine a grandparent that died before a kid was born and just being 656 00:40:08,345 --> 00:40:10,525 able to say, yeah, let me tell you stories about your grandparent. 657 00:40:10,565 --> 00:40:14,165 Like, that's important to them. And it's not so much that when I say family, 658 00:40:14,205 --> 00:40:15,465 family is about storytelling. 659 00:40:15,585 --> 00:40:18,985 It's not that we're saying that that person is a family member because that's 660 00:40:18,985 --> 00:40:21,405 what gets hard for people because they think, well, oh, wait, 661 00:40:21,465 --> 00:40:24,905 if it's, you know, if he's a biological person or a genetic person and he's, 662 00:40:24,905 --> 00:40:27,405 and he's, and I know him, does that mean he's dad? 663 00:40:27,825 --> 00:40:32,705 No. And that's, it's so hard to explain to people that you can have both a family 664 00:40:32,705 --> 00:40:36,725 that you call family and that you're, you see, and you're raised with and you 665 00:40:36,725 --> 00:40:40,825 live with, and then you can have significant people who aren't playing that role. 666 00:40:40,945 --> 00:40:47,065 They're not that role in your life, but they are still connected to you by genes or whatever. 667 00:40:47,445 --> 00:40:50,385 And you may not, it doesn't mean you have to have a relationship with them. You may not. 668 00:40:50,485 --> 00:40:56,145 But how do we help people understand that that doesn't mean they're a parent 669 00:40:56,145 --> 00:40:58,905 just because they're known to you? 670 00:40:59,105 --> 00:41:02,765 Look, like if you're having a kid and you're putting all this thought into having 671 00:41:02,765 --> 00:41:06,605 a kid and finding a donor and finding the right person, you are going to be 672 00:41:06,605 --> 00:41:07,725 enough for that that kid. 673 00:41:07,885 --> 00:41:12,385 There is no one else outside of you and your significant other, whoever, right? 674 00:41:12,465 --> 00:41:16,245 That there's no one else that they need as a parent. They have that. 675 00:41:17,105 --> 00:41:20,845 So I would say anything else is just a curiosity about genetics, 676 00:41:21,145 --> 00:41:25,145 which is a basic human feeling, right? 677 00:41:25,245 --> 00:41:28,505 Like we want to know where we came from. We want to know what we have in common 678 00:41:28,505 --> 00:41:31,085 that genes are contributing, right? 679 00:41:31,165 --> 00:41:34,785 Like I have a friend who found out she was donor conceived late in life and 680 00:41:34,785 --> 00:41:39,645 she

spent three days straight, not sleeping, trying to figure out who she came from. 681 00:41:39,925 --> 00:41:42,825 And it was a total shock. She did 23andMe and saw all these people. 682 00:41:42,905 --> 00:41:46,365 And she was like, I didn't think I was this like, you know, background, ethnicity, whatever. 683 00:41:46,525 --> 00:41:49,805 And she's like, what is this? And so she figured it out. She found like an aunt. 684 00:41:49,905 --> 00:41:51,565 She traced it back to who she was related to. 685 00:41:51,845 --> 00:41:56,485 And my, our friend is literally a lawyer who is amazing at finance. 686 00:41:56,605 --> 00:42:01,785 She's a tax lawyer who can like buy stocks and the stocks She's so good. 687 00:42:01,905 --> 00:42:02,945 She's like innately good. 688 00:42:03,165 --> 00:42:07,725 And her parents have no ability to be good at money. 689 00:42:07,805 --> 00:42:11,905 They have no ounce in them that is good at money. She handles their finance. 690 00:42:12,145 --> 00:42:15,625 And when she found out who her donor was, she found out that he is a finance person. 691 00:42:15,965 --> 00:42:20,605 And it was like this awakening of being like, this is where I come from. 692 00:42:20,665 --> 00:42:24,205 This is my genes of why I got the brain that I have. 693 00:42:24,305 --> 00:42:27,345 And all of her her answer questions were answered just knowing that about 694 00:42:27,345 --> 00:42:30,085 like her like her positions and like what she's good at 695 00:42:30,085 --> 00:42:33,065 right yeah and she had the unfortunate event of reaching out 696 00:42:33,065 --> 00:42:35,925 to him and he said leave me alone never contact me again 697 00:42:35,925 --> 00:42:40,045 I was 18 when I donated it was at college and I never want to hear from you 698 00:42:40,045 --> 00:42:45,945 again and he was pretty rough about it and she I mean that that impacted her 699 00:42:45,945 --> 00:42:49,745 so much she didn't she wasn't ever gonna look at him like a parent there was 700 00:42:49,745 --> 00:42:53,405 no part of her that I was ever going to think of him as a parent, but she wanted answers. 701 00:42:53,545 --> 00:42:58,305 She wanted medical history updates. She wanted to know what he's good at, 702 00:42:58,305 --> 00:43:00,325 to know if like she was good at the same thing, right? 703 00:43:00,425 --> 00:43:03,625 Like she wanted to be what his kids were like to see if she looks like them. Like. 704 00:43:04,455 --> 00:43:12,095 It's like identity discovery. And I talk a lot about identity development and 705 00:43:12,095 --> 00:43:15,375 it's not because I think genetics determine our identity a hundred percent. 706 00:43:15,415 --> 00:43:17,995 No, they don't. There's epigenetics, there's environment. 707 00:43:18,135 --> 00:43:21,135 Of course, it's a huge part. And I know that I'm like the living example because 708 00:43:21,135 --> 00:43:26,855 I was adopted and I met my birth family and I know them and then my adopt my, my family, real family. 709 00:43:27,115 --> 00:43:29,755 And so I can see where I got, what I got from both. 710 00:43:30,095 --> 00:43:36,695 But that's what's so awesome is I get to now finally see what I got from both and what makes me. 711 00:43:37,055 --> 00:43:42,235 And it's just this process of self-discovery that you can help your child with too. 712 00:43:43,835 --> 00:43:48,035 Anyway, so it's just like you start to love your child and see them for this 713 00:43:48,035 --> 00:43:49,295 unique individual person. 714 00:43:49,495 --> 00:43:55,535 And what matters most is that it's not about us. And I know it's a process. Listen, I would love to. 715 00:43:55,695 --> 00:43:59,255 You want to see yourself and your kid and all that stuff. 716 00:43:59,375 --> 00:44:03,455 It becomes very much like an extension of you. But you start to see them as 717 00:44:03,455 --> 00:44:09,315 their own person and that's yeah yeah so no I mean yeah even if you use an anonymous 718 00:44:09,315 --> 00:44:13,655 donor and you're out there going god I wish we had known Danielle and her company 719 00:44:13,655 --> 00:44:19,295 name which we needed to say is the Seed Scout even if I had known about the Seed Scout. 720 00:44:20,128 --> 00:44:22,748 I wish I had known. I wish I had done it differently. There's a lot of regrets. 721 00:44:22,948 --> 00:44:25,048 I would just say to you, it's okay. 722 00:44:25,188 --> 00:44:30,908 There are still things you can do to help you and your child with their identity 723 00:44:30,908 --> 00:44:32,708 development and discovering who they are. 724 00:44:32,888 --> 00:44:38,108 The whole thing about what I'd love to see more is and be able to show people 725 00:44:38,108 --> 00:44:43,208 more is how people navigate this relationship, a known donation relationship, 726 00:44:43,528 --> 00:44:45,928 with boundaries from the start. 727 00:44:46,028 --> 00:44:51,968 And that's what you're providing the model to right now. I think that's the way to do it, right? 728 00:44:52,028 --> 00:44:54,688 Like to be able to just say the minimum that we're able to offer, 729 00:44:54,768 --> 00:44:57,408 the minimum that you offer, and then anything else that we can figure out that 730 00:44:57,408 --> 00:45:01,588 make each other happy, then we should talk about that and figure that out, right? 731 00:45:01,688 --> 00:45:05,568 Like this is, it needs to be good for everyone, but also you're the parents, right? 732 00:45:05,648 --> 00:45:08,548 Like you get to make these decisions about what's best for your kid and the 733 00:45:08,548 --> 00:45:10,808 kid gets to make decisions about what they're comfortable with. 734 00:45:11,048 --> 00:45:17,628 And those things need to be very, very much cherished. You have a role after 735 00:45:17,628 --> 00:45:19,208 they're matched in the babies here? 736 00:45:19,308 --> 00:45:23,168 I don't because, so it's interesting because I was just told about like a different 737 00:45:23,168 --> 00:45:25,768 type of

agency that matches people, but it's still anonymous. 738 00:45:25,888 --> 00:45:28,248 They meet, but they don't know each other's names. And then they have to like 739 00:45:28,248 --> 00:45:29,888 only talk through a lawyer. 740 00:45:31,128 --> 00:45:34,448 And that sounds like hell, right? To me, like, I'm just like, 741 00:45:34,528 --> 00:45:37,848 I would rather, like, I want people to just text each other when they're like 742 00:45:37,848 --> 00:45:39,008 FaceTime each other, right? 743 00:45:39,068 --> 00:45:42,408 Like, I want this to feel natural and not to feel like they have to go through 744 00:45:42,408 --> 00:45:46,008 a third party who then mediates a conversation. Like, that is not a known, 745 00:45:46,068 --> 00:45:48,148 that's, I mean, it is a known donor, but it's different, right? 746 00:45:48,208 --> 00:45:49,688 It's a different kind of relationship. 747 00:45:49,928 --> 00:45:54,008 So, no, I don't. But obviously, like, if anyone had any problems reaching someone 748 00:45:54,008 --> 00:45:56,708 or anything like that, I'm always here for that kind of stuff. 749 00:45:56,988 --> 00:46:00,228 Tell people this can be done. So, I'm very excited. 750 00:46:00,468 --> 00:46:02,028 I'm very excited. Me too. I'm 751 00:46:02,028 --> 00:46:04,508 really hoping this makes a big difference for, like, a lot of families. 752 00:46:04,608 --> 00:46:08,288 And I cannot wait to hear about, like, kids meeting donors and, 753 00:46:08,328 --> 00:46:10,768 like, how exciting that is for them or getting their questions answered. 754 00:46:10,868 --> 00:46:14,028 Like, I can't wait to get all those pictures and information. So. 755 00:46:14,744 --> 00:46:17,724 And then just even hearing from them in the future and like hearing the stories 756 00:46:17,724 --> 00:46:19,724 of this is how it worked for us. Oh, gosh. 757 00:46:19,824 --> 00:46:22,844 Or like getting Christmas cards. Like, you know, I'm going to start putting 758 00:46:22,844 --> 00:46:25,324 that in my contract. Like you have to send me a Christmas card. 759 00:46:26,884 --> 00:46:30,584 Exactly. How can people get in touch with you? What's the best way to find you 760 00:46:30,584 --> 00:46:33,524 or the easiest way to find you? Yeah, just to go to theseedscout.com. 761 00:46:33,664 --> 00:46:36,164 We have like a bunch of ways that you can say like contact us, 762 00:46:36,244 --> 00:46:39,204 reach out, things like that. And I'm like always here. 763 00:46:39,364 --> 00:46:41,864 I'm, you know, I'm happy to help. I'm also happy to have like, 764 00:46:41,904 --> 00:46:44,924 I have a free consultation with everyone before they sign up just to kind of 765 00:46:44,924 --> 00:46:47,784 inform people of what's necessary, even if they want to go a different route 766 00:46:47,784 --> 00:46:51,704 to make sure that they are doing everything, crossing all their T's, dotting all their I's. 767 00:46:51,724 --> 00:46:55,624 I think it's so important because there's so many people meeting on social media 768 00:46:55,624 --> 00:47:00,164 or like, you know, on different apps and things like that. And no one's there to guide them. 769 00:47:00,244 --> 00:47:05,184 So I really want to make sure they know what steps they should be taking to protect themselves. 770 00:47:05,584 --> 00:47:11,124 Ourselves. That's great. And then you're also on social media at what is your at the seed scout? 771 00:47:11,284 --> 00:47:13,904 I think so. Yeah, it's the seeds guy. I'm so bad at social media. Yeah. 772 00:47:15,424 --> 00:47:19,204 At the seed scout. So do you do direct methods? So if they want to, 773 00:47:19,204 --> 00:47:22,604 yeah, they can do that too. Okay. Yeah, I'm very reachable. 774 00:47:22,724 --> 00:47:27,724 As all the clients will say, I answer way too fast, I think. But yeah, no. 775 00:47:28,504 --> 00:47:32,324 Well, I will vouch for you, Danielle, and say to anyone listening and watching 776 00:47:32,324 --> 00:47:33,704 that definitely reach out. 777 00:47:33,764 --> 00:47:36,964 And I mean, you're a wealth of information and so helpful. 778 00:47:37,044 --> 00:47:41,404 And I'm just super, super happy to see this available for people out there. 779 00:47:41,464 --> 00:47:46,344 I know I can tell you people, my clients have been asking for this for years. Yeah. I know. 780 00:47:46,504 --> 00:47:49,984 And to have you out there, it feels like I need to pinch myself a little bit. 781 00:47:50,124 --> 00:47:53,784 So we're really excited to be like, you know, leading this a little bit and 782 00:47:53,784 --> 00:47:57,084 to hopefully make it more accessible for people in any way possible, 783 00:47:57,224 --> 00:47:59,004 because I think that's the biggest barrier. 784 00:47:59,104 --> 00:48:04,164 So thank you for listening. You guys, I did that interview a couple months ago, actually, 785 00:48:04,384 --> 00:48:10,304 and since then I cannot tell you the amount of people who have reached out they've 786 00:48:10,304 --> 00:48:14,604 already heard about the seed scout they've reached out they've wanted to know more. 787 00:48:15,825 --> 00:48:20,345 This company is shaking things up. Take it from me. 788 00:48:21,005 --> 00:48:30,525 There's a lot I know and I can't necessarily say, but wow, it's the beginning of a new and great thing. 789 00:48:30,665 --> 00:48:38,605 And I couldn't be more happy for all of you out there who are struggling with 790 00:48:38,605 --> 00:48:39,725 infertility, donor conceived, 791 00:48:40,025 --> 00:48:45,685 LGBTQ plus, you know, recipient parents, like all of you that are just looking 792 00:48:45,685 --> 00:48:48,085 and wanting a better way to do this. 793 00:48:48,245 --> 00:48:54,065 So thank you to all the donor conceived people out there who continue to tirelessly 794 00:48:54,065 --> 00:49:00,925 and thanklessly advocate for the future generations of donor conceived people and their families. 795 00:49:01,425 --> 00:49:08,545 And big announcement is this year's International Donor Conception Awareness Day is April 27th. 796 00:49:08,545 --> 00:49:15,245 You guys, we're in year four and this year's theme I am excited to announce 797 00:49:15,245 --> 00:49:19,485 is valuing the voices of donor conceived people. 798 00:49:20,205 --> 00:49:25,045 We started with discussions and then we went on to truth and transparency. 799 00:49:25,325 --> 00:49:28,865 You know, we can't get anywhere if we don't know the truth of who we are. 800 00:49:28,925 --> 00:49:33,605 And the next foundational element is for us to listen to those who have the 801 00:49:33,605 --> 00:49:41,545 lived experience of walking in those shoes and they can inform us and make this better. 802 00:49:41,705 --> 00:49:49,025 So this year, I'm going to be stepping aside and letting donor conceived people use their voice. 803 00:49:49,165 --> 00:49:55,825 To learn more, head over to DonorConceptionAwarenessDay.com and learn how you can participate.