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Ed Buckley - Great Distribution Beats a Great Product

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WEBVTT 00:00:00.320 --> 00:00:00.719 Mr. 00:00:00.959 --> 00:00:02.160 Ed, how are you? 00:00:02.479 --> 00:00:03.200 I'm lovely. 00:00:03.279 --> 00:00:04.320 How are you boys doing? 00:00:04.639 --> 00:00:05.679 Doing well, doing well. 00:00:06.320 --> 00:00:08.480 A while since we last connected. 00:00:08.720 --> 00:00:13.279 I mean, I think I'm two companies in since the last time we talked, you know. 00:00:13.599 --> 00:00:20.160 But it's really difficult for you because you have been in exit so many companies and doing so many things. 00:00:20.239 --> 00:00:22.879 So it's like uh it's hard to keep up with you for sure. 00:00:23.039 --> 00:00:24.160 Uh yeah, it's fun. 00:00:24.320 --> 00:00:24.719 I love it. 00:00:24.879 --> 00:00:25.679 Gotta stay busy. 00:00:26.000 --> 00:00:30.559 We were just thinking about uh recording a little introduction, and we were like, where do we even start? 00:00:30.640 --> 00:00:32.719 Like which which company should we mention? 00:00:32.880 --> 00:00:35.759 Um, how do we mention all of them in 30 seconds? 00:00:35.920 --> 00:00:37.200 It's it's almost impossible. 00:00:37.439 --> 00:00:38.640 It's it's very difficult. 00:00:38.799 --> 00:00:40.479 It's very difficult, yeah. 00:00:40.960 --> 00:00:44.719 But that's the beautiful thing that now we have a lot of things to talk about. 00:00:44.880 --> 00:00:45.119 Yes. 00:00:45.359 --> 00:00:51.840 Between all the features that you've made before, all the companies that you built, all the exits, so many things. 00:00:51.920 --> 00:00:52.880 So it's really cool. 00:00:53.039 --> 00:00:54.240 It's really, really cool. 00:00:54.560 --> 00:01:02.079 Well, Ed, to jump in, we want to start with a few rapid fire questions to kind of heat up, and then we can dive into all their experiences. 00:01:02.159 --> 00:01:06.239 Uh, as you know, we really want to focus on the highs and lows of building products and companies. 00:01:06.400 --> 00:01:17.120 So anything you can share and you're willing to share is more than welcome, especially the lows and especially the shortcomings, the wrong decisions, and where you really had to learn rather than actually only where succeeding. 00:01:17.200 --> 00:01:20.480 So um, but yeah, let's kick it off with some some rapid fire questions. 00:01:20.640 --> 00:01:21.280 Let's do it. 00:01:21.599 --> 00:01:23.040 Tampa or Miami? 00:01:23.280 --> 00:01:23.840 Tampa. 00:01:24.000 --> 00:01:25.599 Water Street Tampa. 00:01:27.280 --> 00:01:29.280 Kind of had a guess to be honest, but yeah. 00:01:29.599 --> 00:01:32.560 AI in classrooms, yes or no? 00:01:32.879 --> 00:01:33.359 Yes. 00:01:33.599 --> 00:01:34.640 Big yes. 00:01:35.120 --> 00:01:38.879 Overhyped or underhyped about the same question of AI in classroom. 00:01:39.200 --> 00:01:44.480 I think it's overhyped right now, but where it works, it works exceedingly well. 00:01:45.200 --> 00:01:47.120 Mountains or beach? 00:01:47.599 --> 00:01:52.959 I used to be a beach person, but it's so hot in Florida, I crave the mountains in the cold air right now. 00:01:53.760 --> 00:01:55.200 I can imagine, I can imagine. 00:01:55.599 --> 00:01:56.000 I agree. 00:01:56.319 --> 00:01:58.079 Favorite sport to watch? 00:01:58.719 --> 00:01:59.040 Oh. 00:01:59.760 --> 00:02:00.560 Tennis. 00:02:00.799 --> 00:02:01.760 Definitely tennis. 00:02:02.000 --> 00:02:02.879 Wimbledon just happened. 00:02:04.159 --> 00:02:04.719 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 00:02:05.200 --> 00:02:07.120 Who did you root for in the final? 00:02:07.760 --> 00:02:11.280 Well, this is a big in my family, they're all tennis fans. 00:02:11.520 --> 00:02:14.479 So, like everyone wants to see center succeed. 00:02:14.560 --> 00:02:16.400 He's just a good guy, right? 00:02:16.639 --> 00:02:22.159 The women's was hard because it was, you know, two fairly unknown people from the same country. 00:02:22.400 --> 00:02:24.719 So there wasn't a lot of dog in the fight there. 00:02:24.879 --> 00:02:28.639 The women's is far more wide open than the men's, you know, right now. 00:02:28.800 --> 00:02:30.719 And it's in it, it's a transition period, right? 00:02:30.800 --> 00:02:35.439 Novak's going out, center's kind of on the rise, and Alcaraz wasn't even in the tournament. 00:02:35.520 --> 00:02:36.400 So Yeah. 00:02:36.560 --> 00:02:38.800 So almost decided before the tournament. 00:02:40.639 --> 00:02:42.639 Favorite sport to practice? 00:02:43.039 --> 00:02:51.360 Really, the only sport that I do is running and triathlons, which you could make a joke is just exercising professionally. 00:02:51.520 --> 00:02:54.719 It's not really a sport, but that's what I do. 00:02:54.879 --> 00:02:56.400 So that's the count. 00:02:56.639 --> 00:03:02.960 Um, now that you're getting back into the schooling part, school system, what was your favorite school subject growing up? 00:03:03.280 --> 00:03:05.759 Ooh, I loved science and math. 00:03:05.840 --> 00:03:11.039 And so when I got into calculus and physics, I was like, oh, it's the two of them together. 00:03:11.199 --> 00:03:12.560 This is awesome. 00:03:12.719 --> 00:03:13.919 So I loved that. 00:03:14.240 --> 00:03:15.919 I'm gonna do a follow-up on this one then. 00:03:16.000 --> 00:03:19.520 What was your kind of nightmare subject that you hated? 00:03:20.080 --> 00:03:24.560 I thought English literature or literature in general was not good. 00:03:24.719 --> 00:03:30.479 Not that I don't like stories, but the way that we do it in school as like a class kind of sucked. 00:03:30.719 --> 00:03:38.400 I love to debate about the stories, but that's not it was about write boring reports about a book that is really long and boring. 00:03:38.560 --> 00:03:41.680 So maybe it's because we are getting old. 00:03:41.840 --> 00:03:46.719 And when you are getting old, you like to learn more about your past, or maybe I don't know. 00:03:47.120 --> 00:03:54.400 That's why I'm very deep on the story and history in from America and Latin America and Europe and everything.
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00:03:54.560 --> 00:03:56.319 That's why I love to learn. 00:03:56.639 --> 00:03:57.520 Isn't that funny? 00:03:57.599 --> 00:04:00.639 As you get older, you become more reflective, right? 00:04:00.719 --> 00:04:13.680 Yes, you become, I guess maybe that's where wisdom comes from, is you finally open up to becoming reflective and learning the lessons of the past that when you're young and impetuous, you kind of are just headstrong and don't listen to. 00:04:14.000 --> 00:04:14.479 I agree. 00:04:14.639 --> 00:04:16.399 When you're young, you're running all the time. 00:04:16.560 --> 00:04:20.399 I I'm running still, but it's like you're not running the same way. 00:04:20.639 --> 00:04:33.360 You are running, but now you are trying to trust and you find something more bigger than yourself, and then you start to reflect about your you know behaviors and how can you manage the stress and if you have a family, whatever. 00:04:33.519 --> 00:04:38.879 So it's you are putting things in perspective, and that's why maybe you start to learn from the past. 00:04:39.439 --> 00:04:48.079 I heard someone's analysis one time about that, about why, especially men are so headstrong when they're younger. 00:04:48.240 --> 00:04:54.319 And it's like, well, because you're having to break into the pack, which is trying to keep you down, right? 00:04:54.399 --> 00:05:08.399 Like you're you are having to break into it, which is why you're this young, energetic, high testosterone person, because you have to have that something to exist to survive the like coming into the pack and being accepted. 00:05:08.720 --> 00:05:09.600 I think so. 00:05:09.839 --> 00:05:11.120 It makes sense, at least. 00:05:11.360 --> 00:05:12.399 Makes a lot of sense. 00:05:12.560 --> 00:05:22.319 And let me go with the last one so we can go into the widths and all your experience, because I really want to know which company was the most challenging to build. 00:05:26.319 --> 00:05:30.480 Because then in Pierfit, we started a second business, which was Pierfit Move. 00:05:31.040 --> 00:05:36.399 That was the first time that I learned, ooh, I'm doing this again. 00:05:36.639 --> 00:05:38.240 It's it's easier, right? 00:05:38.319 --> 00:05:40.560 Like I things, you just know things more. 00:05:40.720 --> 00:05:43.360 And then Fit on Health was a little bit easier. 00:05:43.439 --> 00:05:48.240 And then Scholar had a lot of like smoothness and sort intelligence, right? 00:05:48.319 --> 00:05:52.639 So that was the first, because at that point, all I had really done is Peer Fit, right? 00:05:52.720 --> 00:05:56.639 And so you never got to start over to see what new skills you had acquired. 00:05:56.720 --> 00:06:02.399 So Peer Fit one was by far the most difficult, and it took the longest, right? 00:06:02.560 --> 00:06:08.079 So almost every one of my companies since we've gone from zero to a million in revenue in a year, right? 00:06:08.240 --> 00:06:10.000 Almost every single one of them we've done
that. 00:06:10.240 --> 00:06:14.879 Peer fit took us like five years to get to a million in revenue, probably. 00:06:15.120 --> 00:06:17.920 So why do you think that that is so? 00:06:18.000 --> 00:06:20.480 Like, is it really missing knowledge that you had? 00:06:20.560 --> 00:06:34.720 Because, like, yeah, first time you're building from scratch, you're you're making a lot of mistakes, or is it also somewhat missing resources, missing network, all these things that you start building obviously with your first company that you can now leverage in a second, third, fourth company? 00:06:34.879 --> 00:06:40.480 Or like if you have to boil it down to some of the reasons why it's the most challenging one, like what would you say? 00:06:41.040 --> 00:06:44.800 So I think I can provide a fairly objective answer here. 00:06:45.040 --> 00:06:55.439 Because what you're asking is if Ed 15 years ago was handed$2 million, you didn't have to worry about raising gap, and would he have been able to get to a million in revenue in the first year? 00:06:55.600 --> 00:06:55.839 No. 00:06:56.000 --> 00:06:57.199 Well, absolutely not. 00:06:57.439 --> 00:06:58.160 Wouldn't happen. 00:06:58.319 --> 00:06:59.439 I would have burned through the cash. 00:06:59.519 --> 00:07:02.959 We would have made some stupid thing that I thought was good that the customers didn't want. 00:07:03.199 --> 00:07:19.920 And what I hadn't fully appreciated, what I would say, like if you could boil down why have they been more successful, the maxim that I have is I'd rather have a good product with great distribution than a great product with good distribution, right? 00:07:20.079 --> 00:07:25.519 And so what you start to learn is distribution matters a lot. 00:07:25.839 --> 00:07:35.439 You can have the best product in the world, but if you don't know the right way to get it into the market at scale efficiently to the right people, who cares? 00:07:35.600 --> 00:07:35.920 Right. 00:07:36.079 --> 00:07:46.639 So I'd I'd rather have a pretty good product that I know how to get right into people's hands because then also once people are using your product, you'll get the feedback to improve that product fairly rapidly if you know how to listen. 00:07:46.959 --> 00:07:56.639 But getting distribution right is something that I think a lot of first time founders, myself included, you know, when I started, they don't pay that much attention to. 00:07:56.800 --> 00:07:58.240 And you can see it in their decks. 00:07:58.319 --> 00:08:04.319 Like now that I also am an investor and have invested, you know, in startups, these founders bring you these decks. 00:08:04.480 --> 00:08:08.800 And it's like, okay, out of the 20 slides, 12 of them are on the product. 00:08:08.959 --> 00:08:13.279 And then you've got eight slides for market opportunity, competition, finance, projections. 00:08:13.360 --> 00:08:15.279 And it's like, flip that, right? 00:08:15.519 --> 00:08:17.439 I want three slides on your product. 00:08:17.600 --> 00:08:20.959 I want to spend the rest of the time looking at the market and your distribution strategy. 00:08:21.120 --> 00:08:22.240 That's what I care about. 00:08:22.480 --> 00:08:32.639 And it's I like I would even argue it's becoming even more important right now with like the AI age of building fast and you can accelerate engineering and data science, et cetera. 00:08:32.799 --> 00:08:37.519 Distribution is one of the modes, I would say, that's still out there for great companies. 00:08:37.600 --> 00:08:42.080 So, like, what's your feeling there on how distribution is changing right now? 00:08:42.240 --> 00:08:44.240 And like, how's your way thinking about it? 00:08:44.399 --> 00:08:52.960 And I do want to ask you this from a product lens, because often people build product, but they forget about distribution or they don't have that go-to-market site clearly in set. 00:08:53.039 --> 00:09:02.720 So, like, what is your take on how is distribution changing and how should someone from a product perspective really have a lens on this change in distribution? 00:09:02.879 --> 00:09:05.919 Today was kind of like the AI push coming along. 00:09:06.720 --> 00:09:15.919 If you make the assumption that within reason, almost anyone can create a decent product now of any type, right? 00:09:16.159 --> 00:09:25.600 You can have entrepreneurs of one, a company of one, because to your point, you can build a bunch of agents around you, you can code and build a bunch of things. 00:09:25.679 --> 00:09:29.039 So you can at least get to a NVP level product. 00:09:29.200 --> 00:09:36.720 So if you assume that that capability is almost accessible to anyone who wants it, then you have to say, like, okay, what really matters then? 00:09:36.879 --> 00:09:41.840 Like, because then anyone can build a copycat of what you do fairly quickly and easily. 00:09:42.080 --> 00:09:43.919 So that's no longer a moat. 00:09:44.080 --> 00:09:53.759 Well, then the moat is your reputation and trustworthiness, people who want to do business with you, relationships once you get them, and then to your point, distribution. 00:09:53.919 --> 00:09:56.559 Like those kind of become everything. 00:09:56.720 --> 00:09:58.960 And I'll and I'll use Scholar as an example. 00:09:59.200 --> 00:10:06.000 When we started three years ago, it was like everyone was building point solution, AI point solutions for the classroom. 00:10:06.159 --> 00:10:11.440 And I told Marley, because Marley had spent her entire career in the schools, not in, you know, startups. 00:10:11.679 --> 00:10:13.440 Listen, I've raised a lot of capital. 00:10:13.600 --> 00:10:14.879 I've done growth before. 00:10:15.120 --> 00:10:18.480 The pathway will be 90% of these companies will be dead in a year. 00:10:18.639 --> 00:10:21.600 They don't know how to raise capital and they don't understand distribution. 00:10:21.840 --> 00:10:26.159 Most of them are teachers who are like, oh, I just want to vibe code
some solution. 00:10:26.320 --> 00:10:28.480 And they haven't really thought downstream. 00:10:28.639 --> 00:10:31.600 And once again, I try to measure things objectively. 00:10:31.679 --> 00:10:38.960 And what I pointed Marley to was, you know, we were able to get that, you know, a million dollars in contracts in our first year. 00:10:39.200 --> 00:10:45.919 And she was then going out and talking to other startups who'd been around three, four, five years, had never even achieved that yet. 00:10:46.080 --> 00:10:46.399 Right. 00:10:46.559 --> 00:10:50.399 And the reason was we focused on distribution from like day one. 00:10:50.559 --> 00:10:52.720 Like that was incredibly important. 00:10:53.120 --> 00:10:57.919 So for you, you are going to build more startups and you're going to build more companies, of course. 00:10:58.080 --> 00:11:05.679 So for you, the first thing that you have in your mind is how you're going to distribute XYZ product and then you build the product. 00:11:05.919 --> 00:11:08.000 Or how how is your process? 00:11:08.480 --> 00:11:10.159 Always starting with the problem, right? 00:11:10.240 --> 00:11:13.200 Like there is some unmet need in the market. 00:11:13.360 --> 00:11:13.919 Yeah, 100%. 00:11:14.399 --> 00:11:16.240 Who's you have to ask yourself two things? 00:11:16.399 --> 00:11:19.039 Who's going to consume the product and who's going to pay for it? 00:11:19.279 --> 00:11:21.440 I generally don't do direct-to-consumer. 00:11:21.600 --> 00:11:23.279 I almost always do enterprise. 00:11:23.519 --> 00:11:28.240 Obviously, when you're doing D2C, the consumer's also the person paying. 00:11:28.480 --> 00:11:31.039 But in enterprise, that's not the case. 00:11:31.120 --> 00:11:37.279 And so I always ask myself, like, what is it that the consumer of the product needs to see and feel? 00:11:37.440 --> 00:11:43.679 And then the person who's buying it on their behalf, how do I get to them as leverage and as quick as possible? 00:11:43.840 --> 00:11:44.159 Right. 00:11:44.240 --> 00:11:46.159 So let's go back to peer fit. 00:11:46.399 --> 00:11:50.080 We went direct to employer just to get the first few cases. 00:11:50.320 --> 00:11:53.759 And then we focused on insurance companies to be our leverage distribution. 00:11:54.000 --> 00:11:58.879 And yeah, to close that first insurance contract might take 12 or 18 months. 00:11:58.960 --> 00:12:05.039 And your board and investors are in that 12 to 18 months will start to lose faith a little bit of like, where's the revenue? 00:12:05.279 --> 00:12:11.600 But then that one comes on and it gives you three years worth of revenue that you could never have achieved otherwise, right? 00:12:11.840 --> 00:12:19.840 That's how I generally try to approach enterprises where is the most leveraged distribution point? 00:12:20.240 --> 00:12:23.600 And just get laser focused on how do we get there. 00:12:24.240 --> 00:12:26.000 Do you want to ask something, Jeminus? 00:12:26.159 --> 00:12:27.440 I I want to I have a follow-up in mind. 00:12:27.519 --> 00:12:29.200 I mean, I have many questions coming to mind. 00:12:30.000 --> 00:12:32.480 It's hard to put them all one after another. 00:12:32.639 --> 00:12:46.080 But like for me, like when you think about distribution now, and we're taking this example of okay, enterprise B2B mode, how much is the product somewhat responsible to do part of the distribution? 00:12:46.320 --> 00:12:53.600 Or is distribution something like really about go-to-market channels, certain kind of channel partnerships that you build out? 00:12:53.759 --> 00:13:00.720 Like, how do you how do you think about distribution if you have to kind of break it down into different pieces, so to say? 00:13:00.960 --> 00:13:05.039 And if you want to take Scholar as an example or any of the previous examples, that's that's great. 00:13:05.360 --> 00:13:15.200 So if you think about what you're asking from the product perspective, i.e., how much of this motion is your sales and marketing team versus your product, right? 00:13:15.600 --> 00:13:20.720 Almost like a sales led growth, product led growth type of disclosure and how much of a bundle or mix, yeah. 00:13:20.960 --> 00:13:21.200 Right. 00:13:21.440 --> 00:13:28.480 Well, when you think about D2C things, I mean your product better be really good at referrals, spreading, sharing, right? 00:13:28.559 --> 00:13:30.639 It's like that you've got to have that. 00:13:30.879 --> 00:13:34.639 Because it's just so difficult to get to a consumer and get them to activate. 00:13:34.799 --> 00:13:39.279 So you want to turn the one that you activated into like four, five, six, seven of their friends. 00:13:39.519 --> 00:13:39.840 Okay. 00:13:40.399 --> 00:13:52.240 In enterprise, what you're thinking about is what are the metrics that the person who's paying for it will look at downstream of its users, right? 00:13:52.879 --> 00:13:57.360 And that is where the product-led spread happens. 00:13:57.600 --> 00:14:04.159 So let's just say Marco is the purchaser, he's the head of procurement at this company. 00:14:04.480 --> 00:14:05.600 He's not going to use the software. 00:14:05.759 --> 00:14:09.519 The software's for the employees, and Jonas, you're, you know, an employee there. 00:14:10.000 --> 00:14:13.759 What I'm looking at is like, how does when Jonas use it? 00:14:13.919 --> 00:14:18.720 That's the D2C part of like, will it propagate to his coworkers to use? 00:14:18.879 --> 00:14:19.279 Right. 00:14:19.440 --> 00:14:28.399 So you need the product to help you share within the ecosystem, which does look different than a pure D2C market where they could share it with anyone. 00:14:28.559 --> 00:14:31.120 They can only share it with their coworkers, right? 00:14:31.279 --> 00:14:34.080 So, what is the thing that would make them talk about it or share it? 00:14:34.159 --> 00:14:35.360 And how do they share it? 00:14:35.519 --> 00:14:36.879 Can they, you know, share it
directly? 00:14:36.960 --> 00:14:37.919 Do they have to go through an internet? 00:14:38.159 --> 00:14:39.519 Did it have to get activated? 00:14:39.679 --> 00:14:42.159 So that's where you have to think about it from a product perspective. 00:14:42.320 --> 00:14:46.240 And then we've got to boil it down to say, Marco's evaluating it. 00:14:46.480 --> 00:14:54.159 Does he care the number of people who are using it, or does he only need a handful of power users to use it a lot, right? 00:14:54.240 --> 00:15:01.120 Those are two completely different types of approaches, which is I'm not trying to get everyone to use it. 00:15:01.200 --> 00:15:06.720 I just need the people who use it to be obsessed with it, versus they're going to look at activation rate. 00:15:06.879 --> 00:15:12.480 They don't care how often, how much, it's just like, I want some percentage, some made-up number. 00:15:12.559 --> 00:15:14.799 I need 20% of my employees to be using it. 00:15:14.879 --> 00:15:16.559 Otherwise, I don't think it's worth paying for. 00:15:16.799 --> 00:15:17.279 Right. 00:15:17.600 --> 00:15:23.279 So that question will generally answer the different product features that you want to focus on. 00:15:23.600 --> 00:15:35.279 But to the question about like enterprise sales, you basically have to have two concurrent things, which is I need a motion to get to Marco, and then a campaign to reinforce the data so he feels good about his purchase. 00:15:35.440 --> 00:15:43.519 And then I need a campaign to the employees, Jonas, to use it and either use it a bunch or propagate it to the people around him. 00:15:44.159 --> 00:15:44.960 That makes sense. 00:15:45.120 --> 00:15:45.919 That's great. 00:15:46.240 --> 00:15:47.039 That's beautiful. 00:15:47.200 --> 00:15:56.080 And when you're thinking about the distribution, do you have like a sweet spot in terms of the type of people that you have to sell? 00:15:56.639 --> 00:16:04.559 I mean, for example, product area, more on the technology with the engineers or with the data scientists. 00:16:04.720 --> 00:16:06.639 Do you have like a sweet spot over there? 00:16:06.720 --> 00:16:10.240 Or because normally it's a completely different way you have to approach. 00:16:10.399 --> 00:16:13.440 If you go with the engineers, they don't want to talk with no one. 00:16:13.600 --> 00:16:16.320 If you go with the product team, they have a different mindset. 00:16:16.399 --> 00:16:19.279 They need to know how I can improve what they are doing. 00:16:19.440 --> 00:16:20.399 What about that? 00:16:20.720 --> 00:16:21.440 You know what? 00:16:21.679 --> 00:16:30.320 I am uniquely positioned now versus a few years ago, whereas, you know, at Peer Fit and FitOn, we sold to the same group of people, right? 00:16:30.480 --> 00:16:32.000 And then we expanded into Medicare. 00:16:32.080 --> 00:16:33.600 So it was like a mirrored group. 00:16:33.840 --> 00:16:38.720 But then Scholar, all of a sudden selling to schools and legislatures,
never had done. 00:16:38.879 --> 00:16:46.559 Then Sword Intelligence, we're selling to hospital IT and chief of medicine people. 00:16:46.960 --> 00:17:00.879 So now if you talk about in three years, we've sold to employers, to insurers, to Medicaid plans, to schools, to legislatures, and then to hospital IT and chief medical officers. 00:17:01.039 --> 00:17:03.279 So I've kind of seen the gambit. 00:17:03.440 --> 00:17:11.519 And I would say that was one of my favorite things about sword intelligence, is that sale was so different than anything I had ever done. 00:17:11.759 --> 00:17:16.400 Normally I could get a great salesperson who understood benefits or understood, you know, one thing. 00:17:16.480 --> 00:17:18.640 We're selling to an insurance company, we're selling to an employer. 00:17:18.880 --> 00:17:20.960 It can be sales, the sales team can do everything. 00:17:21.119 --> 00:17:30.799 But with sword intelligence, that pitch is like head of engineering is in on it from our side, head of product is in on our side, and the business person is there. 00:17:30.960 --> 00:17:40.000 Because we've got to talk really in-depth about the product integrations, we've got to talk about the engineering concerns, and then we're going to have to talk about the business relationship. 00:17:40.240 --> 00:17:49.759 And so, you know, that's one that would take six meetings, you know, to get through because it was so layered and so nuanced. 00:17:50.000 --> 00:18:04.960 And it is, it is funny because you don't expect your engineers and product people to have the charm and charisma of a salesperson, but you also can't let them go in there and be a stereotype, ho-hum, you know, engineer or product person. 00:18:05.200 --> 00:18:11.599 And so I had two amazing people that we brought into Sword Intelligence, right? 00:18:11.680 --> 00:18:16.000 Rick, who was led our product, and JP, who led engineering. 00:18:16.160 --> 00:18:18.799 And actually, the way that we got JP was was funny. 00:18:18.880 --> 00:18:24.400 So when I started Sword Intelligence, it was under Sword, and they said, build this up. 00:18:24.559 --> 00:18:28.480 You can take some people, you can recruit some people from Sword, you can go hire people, right? 00:18:28.559 --> 00:18:29.920 Do whatever you want to do. 00:18:30.240 --> 00:18:36.640 And JP was actually our liaison from the parent co. 00:18:37.039 --> 00:18:42.240 And he was presenting us with engineers that we would be interested in. 00:18:42.400 --> 00:18:46.480 And he gives me this whole list, and I said, What isn't your name on this list? 00:18:46.720 --> 00:18:48.880 And he's like, I was told to present to you. 00:18:48.960 --> 00:18:51.680 And I'm like, Cool, I want you because you know how to present. 00:18:51.839 --> 00:18:56.400 And I was like, This is going to be such an engineering-led presentation in sales. 00:18:56.640 --> 00:19:03.519 I needed an engineer who had a great personality and that you could put out in meetings and eat wow people. 00:19:03.759 --> 00:19:10.640 And it was a full charm offensive, and we ultimately got him, and he was an amazing, amazing uh person to work with. 00:19:10.960 --> 00:19:11.839 Definitely, yes. 00:19:11.920 --> 00:19:15.839 I mean, that type of you know, personalities is really difficult to find. 00:19:16.079 --> 00:19:24.480 Someone who is really on the development engineer part and that can talk that way, but at the same time have the charm to talk. 00:19:24.640 --> 00:19:30.000 It's a really weird or difficult, you know, type of persona to find. 00:19:30.480 --> 00:19:43.119 Well, and if I could follow up also on that one, the one why that was probably one of the better learning experiences for me was okay, I'm starting a new startup, but it's under another company. 00:19:43.440 --> 00:19:47.359 Oh, wait, and a bunch of it's gonna be in other countries where I don't speak the language. 00:19:47.519 --> 00:19:49.759 So normally I'm the number one salesperson. 00:19:50.000 --> 00:19:52.640 I can just go in and charm anybody and life will be great. 00:19:52.799 --> 00:19:54.720 But all of a sudden I was like, I'm going in. 00:19:54.880 --> 00:19:57.359 We're gonna have engineering discussions that are above my head. 00:19:57.519 --> 00:20:00.720 And in some meetings, I won't even be speaking the language. 00:20:01.039 --> 00:20:22.640 So I had to learn how to lead in a completely different way than Pierfit, where I was the subject matter expert and I was the best salesperson, you know, and everything was in my kind of realm where all of a sudden I had to learn how to truly be someone who empowered and trusted everyone. 00:20:22.799 --> 00:20:26.720 And I was really there to support them rather than like lead from the front. 00:20:26.880 --> 00:20:29.920 So it was an amazing learning experience for sure. 00:20:30.240 --> 00:20:32.880 That's a leader at the end of the day, right? 00:20:33.039 --> 00:20:37.359 You have to empower other people to start doing what you need to. 00:20:37.759 --> 00:20:38.960 And yeah. 00:20:39.440 --> 00:20:40.480 It's hard to do, right? 00:20:40.559 --> 00:20:41.119 It's hard to do. 00:20:41.200 --> 00:20:42.400 You want to do everything yourself. 00:20:42.559 --> 00:20:44.960 It's a very, very difficult discipline for sure. 00:20:45.279 --> 00:20:46.400 Very founder. 00:20:49.440 --> 00:20:50.079 That's awesome. 00:20:50.160 --> 00:20:51.680 I want to switch gears here a little bit. 00:20:51.759 --> 00:21:03.039 So you mentioned already a bit of obviously the different companies you've been at, but maybe you can just put us through the order of things, like okay, what was first, second, third, fourth, and kind of how did one thing evolve to the next one? 00:21:03.200 --> 00:21:08.319 And then from there, diving a bit into yeah, what was the toughest moments, the challenges along that way? 00:21:08.480 --> 00:21:09.759 That would be amazing. 00:21:10.079 --> 00:21:10.559 Yeah. 00:21:10.880
--> 00:21:15.440 So started Peer Fit when I was in school at University of Florida. 00:21:15.759 --> 00:21:29.200 And we built that business up, raised some good capital, had some professional sports team owners on our board, on our cap table, got a lot of accolades when Florida was very difficult to raise capital, you know, in and from. 00:21:29.440 --> 00:21:38.880 And then after having that business for probably six years or something, we decided to start a second business called Peer Fit Move. 00:21:39.039 --> 00:21:44.400 And it would basically be an analogous business that sold into Medicare. 00:21:44.559 --> 00:21:54.079 And so that different the product and support act look and act differently enough, where by and large, we had two teams under the same, you know, family banner. 00:21:54.319 --> 00:21:59.759 Then COVID hit and we did a deal with Peloton where we sold off. 00:22:00.240 --> 00:22:05.680 Part of the business and part of the company team-wise to Peloton. 00:22:05.920 --> 00:22:08.480 And that was it's its own interesting story. 00:22:08.799 --> 00:22:18.880 And then two years later, Fiton, the largest fitness app, came and did a full takedown of the business and kept it as a wholly owned sub. 00:22:18.960 --> 00:22:20.720 And I stayed on as CEO. 00:22:20.960 --> 00:22:22.400 And they are consumer. 00:22:22.559 --> 00:22:26.640 We were enterprise, and the board said, we're gonna have to pick a lane. 00:22:26.720 --> 00:22:28.880 Like we can't, you can't have two quarterbacks. 00:22:28.960 --> 00:22:30.880 One of them's gonna have to be the main focus. 00:22:31.119 --> 00:22:35.200 And the board decided that enterprise needed to be the growth focus. 00:22:35.440 --> 00:22:41.039 So we ended up putting the brands together so it wasn't fit on and peer fit anymore. 00:22:41.119 --> 00:22:43.119 It became fit on health, right? 00:22:43.759 --> 00:22:46.400 And ran that business. 00:22:46.720 --> 00:22:50.240 We five X'd it in three years. 00:22:50.400 --> 00:22:54.799 So it was great growth from a pretty mature business already. 00:22:55.039 --> 00:23:02.799 And then my time ended there after we brought in a private equity group who took out all the Peer Fit investors and recapped that business. 00:23:03.039 --> 00:23:05.200 So then I left there. 00:23:05.440 --> 00:23:10.480 During the last year or so of my time there, started Scholar concurrently. 00:23:10.720 --> 00:23:13.440 So I teamed up with Marley and we started Scholar. 00:23:13.920 --> 00:23:17.920 And then a year and a half ago, I did Sword Intelligence. 00:23:18.000 --> 00:23:21.359 So Sword called me up and said, we've got some AI assets. 00:23:21.519 --> 00:23:23.119 We need them commercialized. 00:23:23.279 --> 00:23:26.079 We can't do it inside of the Parent Co. 00:23:26.400 --> 00:23:31.119 This will be the first time we've allowed like a subco-startup basically to exist. 00:23:31.759 --> 00:23:44.079 So built that team, figured out what to commercialize it with, got it up and running, got some really interesting deals done, and then rolled it inside of the Sword Health Parent Co. 00:23:44.160 --> 00:23:48.559 So it could operate more like the other units as they get bigger and restructure. 00:23:48.880 --> 00:23:52.079 And now at Scholar, you know, we're three years in. 00:23:52.240 --> 00:23:54.640 We've got the classroom software, which has been great. 00:23:54.880 --> 00:23:56.640 But we've just started Scholar Health. 00:23:56.799 --> 00:23:59.200 So it's a subco underneath of it. 00:23:59.279 --> 00:24:03.599 And it is a digital health company inside of education, right? 00:24:03.680 --> 00:24:11.759 So it's basically a digital psychology practice so that we can do learning disability evaluations, giftedness evaluations. 00:24:11.920 --> 00:24:12.160 Yeah. 00:24:12.319 --> 00:24:13.759 So that's where we are now. 00:24:14.400 --> 00:24:16.400 Sorry, I need to go back a little bit. 00:24:16.480 --> 00:24:21.839 I really want to know what happened and how was the those conversations with Peloton? 00:24:23.759 --> 00:24:26.319 Can you tell us a little bit about what happened? 00:24:26.559 --> 00:24:30.880 Yeah, they were a really great team, and I've stayed connected to them years later. 00:24:30.960 --> 00:24:32.559 And a lot of my team are still there, right? 00:24:32.640 --> 00:24:37.119 So I talked to my, you know, former PeerFit team who are still there quite often. 00:24:37.359 --> 00:24:39.119 You know, that was a wild time. 00:24:39.200 --> 00:24:50.559 You should literally talking like, if I went back and looked at the emails, probably like March 21st or March 23rd that me and the CEO of Peloton started chatting, and the world was crazy at that time. 00:24:50.799 --> 00:24:52.400 Nobody knew what was gonna happen, right? 00:24:52.559 --> 00:24:59.200 And we sure as heck didn't know their stock was about to go up from$5 to$150, you know, during that time. 00:24:59.599 --> 00:25:01.519 But, you know, we looked at it. 00:25:01.680 --> 00:25:07.279 The pitch was we have a lot of dollars from health insurance companies that are gonna need to be spent on fitness. 00:25:07.519 --> 00:25:11.119 In-person fitness is a huge question mark, but digital fitness isn't. 00:25:11.279 --> 00:25:15.200 And you guys are the name of digital fitness, you know, maybe there's something there. 00:25:15.519 --> 00:25:23.599 And ultimately the deal that was put together was, you know, they didn't want the whole company because we had so many gym partners makes sense, right? 00:25:23.839 --> 00:25:31.920 But they still wanted the underlying knowledge, capability, and the platform that could do what we did. 00:25:32.160 --> 00:25:38.799 So we put together a really great deal that gave them what they wanted and gave us what we wanted, and here we are all these years later. 00:25:39.119 --> 00:25:43.440 Now, how did you start with that conversation with the CEO of Peloton? 00:25:44.000 --> 00:25:57.759 I had met John years
before and total founder thing, like basically forced him to meet with me when he was leaving a speech and just told him something that he really needed to hear. 00:25:57.839 --> 00:26:01.680 And I think, you know, a lot of times the higher up you are, people kiss your ass all the time. 00:26:01.839 --> 00:26:04.640 So I told him what I thought he needed to hear. 00:26:04.799 --> 00:26:07.119 And the next day I got an email at 9 a.m. 00:26:07.279 --> 00:26:14.960 from his president, and he says, I don't know who you are, but you clearly made an impression on John because he said, You will go call this person this morning. 00:26:15.039 --> 00:26:19.759 He said, So I don't know if you're important or what, but it John made me meet with you. 00:26:20.000 --> 00:26:28.240 So we'd looked at doing a partnership, and you know, it just wasn't a priority with how we were structuring it, but we had built a relationship over that time, you know, with the company. 00:26:28.480 --> 00:26:37.279 So when COVID hit, I reached out to him and said, We got money from insurance, you got fitness, we should probably look at that partnership. 00:26:37.599 --> 00:26:43.039 And the message I got back was, no, we should look at buying the whole company, not a partnership. 00:26:43.119 --> 00:26:44.319 And I was like, okay. 00:26:44.559 --> 00:26:46.319 And that's how we went down that path. 00:26:46.559 --> 00:26:47.920 That's crazy, right? 00:26:48.319 --> 00:26:58.960 When you're starting to connect the dots, like why and how did you get started connected with him and all the communication that you have between you and and John, it's impressive. 00:26:59.119 --> 00:27:01.519 It's really impressive how the world works. 00:27:01.839 --> 00:27:08.160 Well, I think the lesson is don't ever be disappointed that you don't get what you think you want in that exact moment. 00:27:08.319 --> 00:27:08.559 Right? 00:27:08.720 --> 00:27:11.119 Everyone wants, oh, I need to get to this person. 00:27:11.200 --> 00:27:14.960 And if I can get to them, then I should be able to convince them and get it right then. 00:27:15.119 --> 00:27:19.200 It's like, no, we actually didn't get what we wanted via that partnership. 00:27:19.359 --> 00:27:20.640 But then we built a relationship. 00:27:20.720 --> 00:27:25.359 And so two years, when the time and conditions were right, then it blossomed, right? 00:27:25.599 --> 00:27:34.079 So you never know when you're going to be in a useful position for someone, and vice versa, when they're going to be in a useful position for you. 00:27:34.319 --> 00:27:39.920 So it's just always to build a network because you like the person and you're impressed with what they do. 00:27:40.079 --> 00:27:41.920 And maybe you can do something for them. 00:27:42.079 --> 00:27:45.119 Maybe you can't, but you never know how it'll unfold in the future. 00:27:45.440 --> 00:27:46.000 I agree. 00:27:46.160 --> 00:27:48.559 That's something that we were learning all the time. 00:27:48.720 --> 00:27:50.960 It's like uh you have to be authentic. 00:27:51.119 --> 00:27:53.519 That's the first thing, and then try to help. 00:27:53.759 --> 00:27:54.480 And you never know. 00:27:54.559 --> 00:27:54.720 Yeah. 00:27:54.880 --> 00:27:55.359 You never know. 00:27:55.519 --> 00:27:57.519 Just be a good person, period. 00:27:58.000 --> 00:28:03.359 And then build a relationship all about it's how can you build a relationship with the other person? 00:28:03.440 --> 00:28:03.920 That's it. 00:28:04.079 --> 00:28:06.400 And keep that relationship, right? 00:28:06.720 --> 00:28:06.960 Yeah. 00:28:07.599 --> 00:28:12.559 There's some saying that's like people do business with people they want to do business with. 00:28:12.799 --> 00:28:15.839 So it's like, don't be a jerk, be easy to work with. 00:28:16.000 --> 00:28:16.960 It's pretty simple. 00:28:17.279 --> 00:28:17.839 Exactly. 00:28:18.000 --> 00:28:18.559 I agree. 00:28:18.720 --> 00:28:19.119 I agree. 00:28:19.359 --> 00:28:22.640 And it's a great reminder as well of like just getting out of the comfort zone, right? 00:28:22.720 --> 00:28:33.920 Like, how often are you at a conference, you see that one person, you're like, oh, I should talk to the person, and then you're not, you're ending up, you know, like finding any stupid excuse of why you're not talking to the person. 00:28:34.160 --> 00:28:39.119 And it's great when you get out of the comfort zone and you're like, even if it's just a few words, you never know where this leads to. 00:28:39.200 --> 00:28:43.920 And in your case, it led all the way to you know being partly quiet by peloton, which is great. 00:28:44.160 --> 00:28:45.680 Well, it's funny you say it. 00:28:45.759 --> 00:28:50.480 So to be very clear, what actually happened was he spoke way longer than he was supposed to. 00:28:50.640 --> 00:28:55.279 And then they were gonna do a QA, and they're like, oh, we've only got time for one or two questions. 00:28:55.519 --> 00:28:58.559 I literally like pushed my way to the front. 00:28:58.880 --> 00:29:04.960 As soon as I realized they were gonna still do QA, I'm like, I'm gonna go start the line. 00:29:05.200 --> 00:29:05.680 Right. 00:29:05.920 --> 00:29:08.480 So I know at least I'll get to ask a question. 00:29:08.559 --> 00:29:17.839 And I asked a really provocative question that I didn't think he would have an answer for, business wise, which then the only solution would be, well, then you should work with us. 00:29:18.079 --> 00:29:21.519 And so it was such a provocative thing that afterwards I went over to him. 00:29:21.599 --> 00:29:26.160 I'm like, if you're interested in having the solution that you're looking for, we should talk. 00:29:26.400 --> 00:29:28.480 So really smart. 00:29:28.720 --> 00:29:29.440 That's awesome. 00:29:30.079 --> 00:29:37.839 Along those, along those, the journey and like all these different experiences, building products, building companies, like what have been the toughest
moments? 00:29:37.920 --> 00:29:44.960 Like, what have been the moments where you were like sitting there in your room and you're like, fuck, I have no idea how to solve this, or I don't know what's next. 00:29:45.119 --> 00:29:53.039 Or, you know, like we often talk about the great moments, the acquisitions, the exits, the fundraising rounds, and and when things are really going great. 00:29:53.119 --> 00:29:57.839 But obviously, along a journey of so many companies, there must have been a lot of down moments as well. 00:29:58.000 --> 00:29:58.960 What can you share? 00:29:59.599 --> 00:30:04.160 I think the hardest moments are human moments, right? 00:30:04.960 --> 00:30:09.039 So you've got staff who's just not working out. 00:30:09.200 --> 00:30:13.440 And now you're gonna have to confront that with them and their team, especially if they're well liked. 00:30:13.519 --> 00:30:15.920 Maybe if they're jerks, everyone's like, good, get rid of them, right? 00:30:16.160 --> 00:30:19.519 But you've got someone on your team who's just not working out and they're really nice. 00:30:19.759 --> 00:30:27.279 Or you've got a client who loves you and they're just not getting use and value out of the product, right? 00:30:27.599 --> 00:30:36.240 Those are sometimes I think the hardest moments because you're like, oh, I I like working with you, but it's just not working, right? 00:30:36.319 --> 00:30:37.119 Like we've had that. 00:30:37.440 --> 00:30:42.480 If you've been in business, you've had a client say, Hey, on paper, this was everything I'm looking for. 00:30:42.640 --> 00:30:48.000 But my people just, for whatever reason, they're too busy, they don't like it, it's not hitting with them. 00:30:48.160 --> 00:30:50.240 And that kind of sucks, right? 00:30:50.559 --> 00:30:59.440 It'd be easier if they hated you, but they're like, Man, I really like working with you, but this just product isn't unlocking what we thought it would unlock for us. 00:30:59.680 --> 00:31:05.440 Because then you've got to look back at your team and you're like, what's not working? 00:31:05.759 --> 00:31:09.039 On paper, this group, this is a group who wants to use it. 00:31:09.279 --> 00:31:13.440 On paper, it is what they're looking for, but it just isn't working. 00:31:13.519 --> 00:31:17.839 And that's a really hard introspective discussion. 00:31:18.160 --> 00:31:24.880 Because if you're in the product org, you can look at it from like, as we talked about earlier, are we getting activations? 00:31:24.960 --> 00:31:26.720 Does activations get them to come back? 00:31:26.880 --> 00:31:28.480 Are they spreading it to their others? 00:31:28.640 --> 00:31:29.680 That's how you look at it. 00:31:29.920 --> 00:31:35.680 From my viewpoint, what I end up looking at is like, where's the system breaking down? 00:31:36.000 --> 00:31:37.680 Product is one piece of that. 00:31:37.920 --> 00:31:46.160 But like the account management part, the sharing the information and data part is feedback from the field getting back to our product team, right? 00:31:46.319 --> 00:31:53.279 We've all built features that are like this is totally what they're looking for, and nobody uses it, right? 00:31:53.440 --> 00:31:58.960 And it is, and then you go and talk to the users, and they're like, oh, well, what I was really looking for was this. 00:31:59.119 --> 00:32:02.559 And you're like, I wish I knew that before, right? 00:32:02.720 --> 00:32:12.559 And at Scholar, we went into it saying, we kind of don't know what the teachers want in the age of AI, but let's just start getting things into their hand and listen. 00:32:12.720 --> 00:32:20.960 And so what now is effectively the whole business, which is focusing on special education, started as just literally one piece. 00:32:21.039 --> 00:32:23.680 And it wasn't a piece we designed from our thoughts. 00:32:23.839 --> 00:32:29.519 The teacher said, Well, if it's already doing X and Y for me, why isn't it doing Z for me? 00:32:29.680 --> 00:32:32.559 And Z was special education accommodations. 00:32:32.799 --> 00:32:36.640 And I'm like, Oh, sure, we can, yeah, we can do that. 00:32:36.960 --> 00:32:40.079 And so we didn't build it because we're so smart. 00:32:40.319 --> 00:32:44.160 The teacher came to us and was like, Why, why haven't you built this for me yet? 00:32:44.480 --> 00:32:48.720 And that one feature ended up turning into basically the whole company. 00:32:49.039 --> 00:32:59.759 And, you know, that's a lesson I told Marley early on, as I said, Marley, no matter what we're doing today, whatever we become successful for, we're not even doing it right now. 00:33:00.000 --> 00:33:00.640 Right. 00:33:00.960 --> 00:33:17.839 And if you can mentally grasp that, probably happens 90% of successful startups, not all of them, but probably 90%, like whatever you're doing on day zero, probably will be nothing similar to what you actually end up finding the fit and scaling. 00:33:18.160 --> 00:33:18.720 I love it. 00:33:18.799 --> 00:33:22.799 It's it's so aligned to the name of the podcast, even, because this feature will save us. 00:33:22.880 --> 00:33:27.839 It's like, how often did we thought about like this is the one, this is the one that's gonna be the killer feature. 00:33:28.000 --> 00:33:33.200 And then you end up, okay, it was something totally different, or it was something totally unexpected. 00:33:33.440 --> 00:33:39.119 It's like a compliance regulatory administrative feature, and now it's the whole company. 00:33:39.200 --> 00:33:41.519 And to the thing of like this feature will save us. 00:33:41.839 --> 00:33:50.319 Had we not done special education, I'm not so sure Scholar would have ended up finding something because it's such a crowded field and everyone's doing it, right? 00:33:50.559 --> 00:33:56.240 And now you also have this backlash of compressing screen time and limiting technology in schools. 00:33:56.559 --> 00:34:05.200 So this is something that is truly a pain
point, which is there are kids out there who need their education tethered. 00:34:05.279 --> 00:34:07.839 They're either gifted or they're falling behind. 00:34:08.000 --> 00:34:14.239 And then there is a regulatory required set of things that you must do to support them. 00:34:14.480 --> 00:34:17.119 So it's not a nice to have, it's a must-have. 00:34:17.280 --> 00:34:19.280 But it's also not the sexiest thing. 00:34:19.360 --> 00:34:24.480 Like people in Silicon Valley aren't rolling out of bed being like, let's go build features for special education. 00:34:24.719 --> 00:34:28.719 So for us, it's like highly regulated industry, schools, government. 00:34:28.960 --> 00:34:31.199 It's kind of difficult. 00:34:31.440 --> 00:34:34.960 Kids who are falling behind in schools, it's highly sensitive. 00:34:35.119 --> 00:34:39.760 And then, like I said, it isn't like there's not, you're not going to take out a billboard about it. 00:34:40.079 --> 00:34:50.000 So it really is a unique thing that went from being one feature to now being the whole company, to now we're starting a second company in Scholar Health dedicated to this problem. 00:34:50.559 --> 00:34:51.199 I love it. 00:34:51.280 --> 00:34:57.599 And I think again, it it gets back into the beginning of the conversation that we were saying about the features. 00:34:57.679 --> 00:35:04.480 And it's really impressive that you now because we were talking about the difference between prefit and what you're building today. 00:35:04.559 --> 00:35:10.639 It took at the very beginning six years to build a one billion company one million company, and now it it takes one year for you. 00:35:10.880 --> 00:35:20.159 But it's because now you are learning to listen your clients, listen exactly the problems that they are struggling, and you have time. 00:35:20.400 --> 00:35:25.760 And before you were running all the time, let's run, run, run this feature and the other feature and the other and the other. 00:35:26.000 --> 00:35:32.480 And again, today the problem is not to build features because now you can build all the features that you want in one hour. 00:35:32.800 --> 00:35:33.920 Cloud will do it for you. 00:35:34.000 --> 00:35:35.039 You don't even have to build anything. 00:35:35.119 --> 00:35:35.840 Cloud does it. 00:35:36.079 --> 00:35:36.960 Yeah, exactly. 00:35:37.440 --> 00:35:49.360 That's crazy because now there's the big struggle that we have to confront is that we need to invest more time with your clients or with your potential clients to solve this specific problem. 00:35:49.840 --> 00:35:52.079 Maybe it will be just one small feature. 00:35:52.480 --> 00:35:57.280 But again, if you go into regulated businesses and everything, that's where you can scale. 00:35:57.760 --> 00:35:58.400 It's crazy. 00:35:58.480 --> 00:36:00.559 It's it's I'm very aligned with that. 00:36:00.639 --> 00:36:02.239 I'm very, very aligned. 00:36:02.960 --> 00:36:06.000 I want to follow up on the a bit what like Marco just said right now. 00:36:06.639 --> 00:36:27.599 When thinking about like building now a company in today's world, so like right now, literally with the AI going on, is there kind of like for you a new rule of thumb of like how much time spent on listening to the client versus actually building the product versus trying to build out go to market versus uh and maybe it's too high-level that question, but how is this changing now? 00:36:27.760 --> 00:36:30.480 Is there a need to be even more custom? 00:36:30.639 --> 00:36:32.400 Before custom wasn't great, right? 00:36:32.480 --> 00:36:33.199 Investors hate it. 00:36:33.280 --> 00:36:39.280 Like if you have to do custom work for one client, it's like, no way, like this is never gonna scale, this is impossible. 00:36:39.519 --> 00:36:46.000 Do we see there a new opportunity now opening up where there is an opportunity to maybe be more custom? 00:36:46.239 --> 00:36:49.599 And I want to actually add a bit of root context here as well for you. 00:36:49.679 --> 00:36:54.000 Like, we have always said like we are the plaid for wearable health data, for health data. 00:36:54.159 --> 00:36:59.760 Plaid being kind of like an infrastructure play of we connect the dots and we provide the infrastructure for you to build. 00:36:59.840 --> 00:37:03.199 And now we're often saying like we want to become maybe more of a palantier. 00:37:03.440 --> 00:37:11.199 So, yes, the AI layer, yes, the intelligence, yes, the infrastructure, but maybe a consultant kind of level of business on top of it. 00:37:11.360 --> 00:37:14.880 Maybe that approach of customization actually becomes important right now. 00:37:15.039 --> 00:37:18.559 And AI is enabling us to do that still at scale. 00:37:18.880 --> 00:37:24.880 So I'll focus this to the most recent businesses because that's the AI era, right? 00:37:25.119 --> 00:37:41.360 So sword intelligence was hey, we have six products, and the customization is you can buy one through six together in an assembly line if all you need is one, if all you need is one and four, if you need one, four, and six, we'll put them together, customized to your experience. 00:37:41.599 --> 00:37:47.519 So it was a bit of like we have items on a shelf that we know provide value. 00:37:47.679 --> 00:37:55.360 You can customize which ones you're getting, and then we can personalize those into your existing stack, right? 00:37:55.519 --> 00:37:58.159 So a bit a bit of both to your to your point. 00:37:58.559 --> 00:38:03.440 Uh scholar, the way to think about this is customization. 00:38:03.599 --> 00:38:10.559 I'll use the phrase, is the enterprise fit, and personalization is the individual fit. 00:38:10.719 --> 00:38:17.280 And so by and large, the customization into a school, and every school's slightly different. 00:38:17.440 --> 00:38:22.559 There's probably, let's call it, 10% variance that we will allow. 00:38:22.719 --> 00:38:25.039 Otherwise, you will just death by a thousand cuts.
00:38:25.280 --> 00:38:28.639 Use a slightly different third-party sync system, cool. 00:38:28.880 --> 00:38:33.920 Use a slightly different protocol on rostering, fine. 00:38:34.159 --> 00:38:39.440 But after that, the experience into the classroom is going to look largely the same, right? 00:38:39.519 --> 00:38:41.840 The integrations might be slightly unique. 00:38:42.000 --> 00:38:45.280 Then within the classroom, it's about personalizing it. 00:38:45.360 --> 00:38:46.480 So there's three of us. 00:38:46.639 --> 00:38:50.960 Let's say Marco's gifted, Jonas is right in the middle, and I'm falling behind. 00:38:51.039 --> 00:38:52.400 I have a learning disability. 00:38:52.639 --> 00:38:58.719 So what we are able to do is impersonalize the lesson that everyone should learn that day, right? 00:38:58.800 --> 00:39:00.079 We're learning about the moon. 00:39:00.320 --> 00:39:04.719 Marco gets a little bit more, bigger words, extra questions. 00:39:04.960 --> 00:39:07.760 Jonas delivers the lesson as it's meant to be. 00:39:07.920 --> 00:39:13.280 And I get easier, chopped-up versions of that lesson that's chunked out. 00:39:13.440 --> 00:39:15.599 And it's at a much, much simpler thing. 00:39:15.840 --> 00:39:29.920 So, in that sense, we all got the same visual experience and user experience, but it was personalized to where we were on a particular variable, in this case, you know, learning capabilities. 00:39:30.239 --> 00:39:39.519 I think that that's the balance you want to have is if you are solving a real problem, yeah, you can have some 10% variance per customer in setup. 00:39:39.679 --> 00:39:42.960 And then you have the ability for personalization at the individual level. 00:39:43.119 --> 00:39:50.800 But if at the enterprise customization level you're always moving it around, you're not really solving the real problem then, right? 00:39:51.039 --> 00:39:52.320 You haven't found it quite yet. 00:39:52.480 --> 00:39:54.960 You're close, but you haven't quite found it. 00:39:55.280 --> 00:39:56.320 That's great insight. 00:39:56.480 --> 00:39:57.920 We're coming up on time here, Ed. 00:39:58.320 --> 00:40:00.239 And uh, we would love to chat probably for another two. 00:40:00.559 --> 00:40:01.280 We do this forever. 00:40:01.519 --> 00:40:01.679 Yes. 00:40:02.000 --> 00:40:02.480 Yeah. 00:40:02.800 --> 00:40:04.719 You blow my mind in different ways. 00:40:04.880 --> 00:40:06.719 So, I mean, what's really great. 00:40:06.960 --> 00:40:08.719 Yeah, we definitely need to have a follow-up chat. 00:40:08.800 --> 00:40:13.760 There's a lot of questions, like personally, really like interesting for us as a learning curve as well. 00:40:13.840 --> 00:40:15.280 So, really appreciate your time. 00:40:15.519 --> 00:40:21.039 We can't let you go, obviously, without having to do the final question, which is what feature will save us? 00:40:21.199 --> 00:40:30.400 So, whatever you can share of what you're currently building, what is this new next killer feature you have in mind for Scholar or for any of the other companies that you are still somewhat involved in? 00:40:30.559 --> 00:40:31.440 We'd love to hear it. 00:40:32.000 --> 00:40:33.519 So I've talked about the classroom. 00:40:33.679 --> 00:40:42.079 I talked about the evals, I will talk about the one thing I haven't talked, which is the middle between those two, which is the schools have to write plans. 00:40:42.320 --> 00:40:43.920 So the child gets evaluated. 00:40:44.079 --> 00:40:46.480 You need the plan to be instituted in the classroom. 00:40:46.559 --> 00:40:50.880 But writing the plan today is very manual, very analog, takes months. 00:40:51.119 --> 00:41:05.119 So the feature that we are working on right now is how do you digitize that process so that the school psychologists, the school teachers, the administration can go from analog back and forth of taking months. 00:41:05.440 --> 00:41:12.400 And I can't even tell you what the feature is going to be quite yet, because we're really building it from listening to these professionals. 00:41:12.559 --> 00:41:24.320 It's like, what is the killer feature that is going to unlock the most value, compress the timeline, but still make them feel like they're in control and they're in charge of the quality of that plan. 00:41:24.960 --> 00:41:37.760 So when we discover that feature, that will be a killer feature that will save a lot of schools, a lot of heartache, and will help both the schools and the families have a much shorter timeline to get that done. 00:41:38.320 --> 00:41:38.800 I love it. 00:41:39.519 --> 00:41:39.920 Perfect. 00:41:40.800 --> 00:41:42.400 Thank you so much for your time. 00:41:42.559 --> 00:41:43.679 Super appreciate it. 00:41:44.000 --> 00:41:44.880 Thanks for having me.
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