ABOUT THIS EPISODE

Location: San Francisco
Date: Tuesday, 3rd September
Project: balajis.com
Role: Angel Investor & Entrepreneur

A little over a year ago Coinbase announced the acquisition of Earn.com in a $120 million deal. Earn.com allows users to earn cryptocurrency by replying to emails or completing tasks.

As a vital part of the acquisition, Balaji Srinivasan the CEO and Co-founder moved into the role of CTO at Coinbase where he oversaw the integration of Earn.com into the exchange and the launch of the controversial Coinbase Earn. This allowed users to earn several cryptocurrencies directly from the Coinbase website by merely answering a few questions to aid the education of the exchange users.

After just a year as Coinbase CTO, Balaji has recently departed the company. It was a mixed year for Coinbase with reports of infighting with regards to the direction of the business. Still, they managed to raise $300m, at $7.7bn valuation, navigate a brutal bear market and build out an entirely new infrastructure to support multiple crypto assets.

In Part 1 of this interview, Balaji and I take a deep dive into the world of virtual reality and gaming, the integration of AI into our daily lives, politics and state surveillance. These are not unfamiliar subjects for the podcast, but the questions and ideas Balaji raised undoubtedly were.

Could migrant workers use virtual reality to work remotely without the need for a visa? Could your local coffee shop barista become a simulated ‘non-player role’? Will humans one day emigrate not to a particular country but geographically, based on a belief system?

- Balaji Srinivasan joined me in San Francisco to discuss this and lots more. As well as:
- Solving San Francisco’s drug and homeless problems
- Virtual worlds and AI
- VR remote working
- A geographical free market where the currency is your belief system
- Software CEO’s becoming de-facto heads of state
- Separating money and state
- Is the U.S surveilling as much as or more than China

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Connect with Balaji:
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On Twitter @balajis
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On LinkedIn
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On Earn.com
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On Crunchbase
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On Medium
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His Website

Mentioned in the interview:
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Oculus Quest
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Edward Snowden’s ‘Telepresence Robot’
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Boston Dynamics
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Rio Tinto Autonomous Mines
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Facebook VR Avatars
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Zao (deep fake app)
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Ready Player One
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Her
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Software Is Reorganising The World - Balaji’s Wired Article
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David Cameron (Ex UK Prime Minister) and Mark Zuckerberg Video Chat
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Lee Kuan Yew
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Shay’s Rebellion
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Urbit
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Gab
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Coinbase
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The Secret Document That Transformed China (NPR Article)
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Belt & Road Initiative
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Greg Gopman

Other relevant WBD podcasts:
- WBD091:
How Crypto Protects Sex Workers with Ameen Soleimani & Allie Eve Knox from Spankchain
- WBD067:
Gab's Andrew Torba on Why Bitcoin Is Free Speech Money
- WBD025:
Threats From Artificial Intelligence with Toby Simpson from Fetch.ai

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English
United States

TRANSCRIPT

00:00:02To the Walmart bridge going to a podcast.
00:00:06Hello. How are you? How was your weekend? You were doing good? I am about to head out to Taipei. I'm off the record for in fuse for my new upcoming pocast Defiance and then I'm going to catch three flights to get from Taipei to Riga for the BowTech honey badger conference. So it's going to be a pretty intense week. Anyway, welcome to the wall pic. When did Pokemon switch is brought to you by the Mighty Kraken the most trusted place to buy and sell Bitcoin. I mean Eyed Peas McCormack and today I've got an interview with Balaji srinivasan an interview that is taking about 14 months the land so pretty excited about this one. Anyway before I do have a message from my shy sconces and first lady Today Show at 4 to buy my good friends over a block fine and it just announced at to update for the interest accounts. They announce bloatfly Flex We Buy you can choose to receive your interest payments in the currency of your choice. So if you want to look up some gusd and get your interest paid on bitcoin, you can do that another cool way to stack sets.
00:01:06We prefer interest account you can and interest every month on bitcoin is an to USD and also block my you have access to crypto backed loans where you can take out a loan against your Bitcoin ether or like if your interest in trying any of these out and do your own research and head over to block five.com, which is blocks. Com. Also Today Show is born to buy Kraken the Mighty Kraken the most trusted place to buy and sell Bitcoin and I'm going to do my best to get Jesse back on the show soon. I'm out of them recently caught up with them tilt about was coming off a kraken. So I want to get back on the show and talk about Bitcoin and we already know that Kraken has the best security practices of any exchange a few Traders out there that goes so much more. They go kraken.com the best place to buy sell trade digital currencies like a margin trading with up to 5x leverage for you. Hardcore crazy Traders out that they can Futures indices pick up the Kraken OTC desk for
00:02:06All trades and pus-y services. They also got cryptowatch when you can trade a multiple crypto exchanges from a single platform reviews on straight is out there. If you want some badass account management you want to really cool past my service, but they put you covered there really is no better place with Bitcoin traders to join me in supporting Kraken head over the Kraken. Calm, which is Kraken. Com. Okay, so I'm to the show and yes, this is one. I'm very excited about being chasing Balaji trying to get him on the show for a good fourteen months now and when I find you going to commit I was dry on the fly out of San Francisco, and yes, I also need that because I miss the ball for a dispenser blockchain capital for allow me to record this at their office. As I said, I was pretty excited about this one. The largest wild view on Tok is an old coins. I have found some of his previous interviews really fascinating and you don't want that. Some of these was a 16 seed or so but to coinbase there's so much.
00:03:06Is it getting too with him as well? So this is one of these interviews why planned in detail at least spend a buck a good day and a hawk go through previous interviews like his work history just planning the things I wanted to talk about and on the morning of the interview question of the interview with him where you've talked about Virtual Worlds. So I kind of dropped that it is my first question and then ended up sending us down this 90-minute rabbit hole that wasn't prepared for I meant I didn't touch hardly any of my other questions during the first audience for you and this is ended up being property is the longest I've ever recorded to be honest. If I didn't have a plane to catch back to LA we probably could have gone for like five hours. I have to decide to split this interview to Ponce as it does feel like two distinct but connected pause but it was such a long interview. I just wanted to break it up. So in this first part we get deep into some really interesting areas from virtual reality to II in Natomas working to the future of immigration based on a belief system which require politics or talk about State surveillance so old
00:04:06Interesting stuff. I'm not even sure what kind of remember if we talked about Bitcoin in the first part, but that is safe epoxy which will be out later in the week. I think it already enjoy this episode. I definitely love making it if you can reach out to meet. My email address is hello a walkway quinta.com. Oh, sorry to the funeral cuz I'm flying out to time on Wednesday. I'm going to record for in fuse for the fan switch won't season start of October the North Korean Defector compro democracy activists a Pulitzer prize-winning journalist and Bulma and a writer specializing in information Warfare on the money for defiance. I need to be catching three flights to get over to recover the boutique honey badger conference on September the Fourteenth and Fifteenth. I'm coming back to UK for a couple of days and then I'm going to be heading out to Wyoming for Caitlin's why hack a phone that September 19th through the 22nd and then going to be heading out to quit to Springs and Palm Springs at September 23rd to the 25th. And then I'm going to be heading out to Ohio in October up for an event with the tropical eyes. And then to LA to see is so busy.
00:05:06Busy busy what's happening? Anyway questions about the show. Feel free to hit me up.
00:05:17I can come to San Francisco. Now, I think for 11 years and is changing a lot and not always for the better. There was a syringe outside of the time in I went for a jog the last time I was here and up in the tenderloin. I didn't know the area. I think the thief the center here is starting to realize that you know, things are kind of getting out of control. When do my research I swear that Marcus educo the highest output of ideas.
00:05:54Machine for ideas. Do you have ideas to solve this to me to solve these problems in San Francisco? Cuz I know people are moving out and leaving because of this. Yeah, so I do but I think it's got to be at least multiple options, right so you don't get to talk awhile back 6 years ago on like voice vs exit right conceptualizes, you know, my voice is is choosing try to change the current system like to to try to reform it. Where is exit is to leave for example voices boating exit is immigration voice is making a bug report exit is forking your voice is trying to do turnaround of a company exit is leaving start your own it and so on and so forth and I really believe in that I think is a very powerful metal framer to look a lot of things. And so I think I should good that folks are able to leave that they going to leave for you know, LA or Austin or Singapore or Switzerland would have you and I think that frankly should be the default option because that is her to guarantee that
00:06:53Control voice is very much not guaranteed. And in fact sometimes cities. Do you know just die and fall off the map, you know, if Lawrence has to be the center of the world and kind of isn't anymore Portugal used to be in a big player in the Age of Exploration and really isn't right. So so you can't really bet on something actually getting fixed the sower option free Temple Steven bus at her retrieve them. He's actually a former former employee of mine is canceled out Google very smart guy has been working with Sonja trauss in other folks on the MB Squad and they'd actually it's not my style of things but their persistence three-yards-and-a-cloud-of-dust in in American football sense has a has really bad for going move the ball for the last four years where the whole you be moving is now at argue kind of where the center is and that's a big change and and leasing's have inertia, but you know, it feels like things are shifting and you know this attack on this lady pennies, you know completely unprovoked attack.
00:07:54Outside her apartment. It was on video totally ludicrous of the person was on the street a few days later in a violent criminal but no punishment, right and you could see that happening to them and I think you're going to start seeing change in the city. I'm not exactly sure when but I would have thought that was a mess exit off of employees or you can recruit the people and you were the type of company. He wasn't too into remote walking it might and might put a bit of pressure on the company's out here to want to make a difference. Absolutely. I think there are a lot of CEOs of nrcs Founders Executives Engineers, you know, anybody who works in Tech or who recognizes a recurring problem and you know, there's some dangers I can't talk but there's any number of strategies out there for trying to push things in a positive direction and it's her like, you know, for example after Obama won in 2012 than usual to give away the key.
00:08:54P-play book write articles on it like post-mortems or what-have-you. I think after Tech Winslow give away the campaign Playbook, but there's a lot of folks thinking about this now. Wow. Okay, we'll listen to things coming on and pestering me for wall to know. How long is a year and a half or so we struggle against the other one of them. So I really appreciate you coming on you've obviously got a lot of experience in the space you done a lot of things you've got strong views on crypto. You were some of the biggest companies your VC like there's a liar. I'm going to want them brought this much as I can but I think a good starting point would be actually want to just go forward the ice already interesting interview with you where you told to bounce like these future walls the future of VR worlds really struck me that are yet, but in some ways it is cuz I
00:09:54Why would my children my daughter is onion Roblox? My son is on Minecraft and fortnite without a headset is fully in Roblox. She's building a house. She's coming to me. Isn't that I need a unicorn and I'm having to give ten bucks will fly bites. Whatever that will juul seeing is happening. It's just not with the headset, right? And also why you think the VR but hasn't actually happened yet. Sure. I think the VR will be the crypto what the iPhone was to the internet. You don't need the infant was obviously going, you know before the iPhone but then post-2008 when you have iPhone apps and people can program for it just started going vertical everything became more useful when you could do it in a mobile form factor Google Maps became more useful email became more useful right Twitter became more useful because you had this device with you and it's
00:10:54I'm just sit down in front of the the desktop do it. You can watch movies on the go all this type of stuff mobile was useful because and you know, you might say well what is VR VR is a compliment about right and the big thing about VR is virtual reality and virtual currency go hand-in-glove and just like, you know what iPhone we have president's you know, that the Palm Pilot was out 10 years ago our 10 unit for the iPhone. In fact, it was something that you know, Peter TitleMax election date. They actually wanted to base PayPal on the pump out because they're so ahead of the curve everything but mobile payments 10 20 years before it became ubiquitous. Right and I think virtual reality plus virtual currency is one of those very obvious marriages where we already have proof wins you have in World of Warcraft and people buying and selling Warcraft Golden in China and was trying to stamp it out that's been going on since early 2000s you if you have free to play games you have Zynga, you have no use of credits in many different kinds of online systems like istockphoto over to have you received a frequent flyer mile.
00:11:54Shut the envelope for the fan games are but the point being that you know kids are playing games a lot. So we're adults right and what hasn't hit yet, but I think it's there now Oculus Quest is actually quite good at what we hasn't hit yet is a VR platform with you know, the canonical killer app that gets in a million or 10 million folks to put on headset. And once that happens you can now not have your virtual reality and virtual currency. What you get is a virtual economy, right? And what do I think about it is another big trend is remote work information work. Essentially what many people do they don't actually think of it. This way is the hit keys and fashion pleasing configurations of electrons, and then they send them over an internet connection, right you're making like little sculptures culture to another computer or a million other computers and it's exactly, you know, like this. Hi Fidelity replica exactly electrons you configure locally and what does that mean? So that's obviously engineering
00:12:53I got the design is well law increasingly. A lot of medicine lot of diagnosis is like that journalism, you know, like a video production audio production and consumption. It's going to start getting into physical tasks as well because lots of these robots will not be fully autonomous at the beginning they're going to have telepresence to control them. So if you seen these beam robots, for example red, you can kind of you know, moving around remotely Edward Snowden use them to kind of get into a conference or have you like a like a like a TV on Wheels basically be hook something like that up to a Boston Dynamics humanoid form Factory put those two things together right supposed to abstain can walk around its got like human like or animal-like agility and the beam robot has telepresence you put those together. You got to tell a present humanoid, right? And now you can now have somebody be a migrant worker without actually having to leave their family, right so you can have them go and they can just shnd telepresence in they can do whatever tasks they need to do. They get paid a salary in there.
00:13:53Back and another with her family don't have to uproot mean if they can't get a Visa doesn't matter because they can connect these are things which you know, our current political system is not even designed for right because what it means is your immigration policy is now your firewall, right? Can you prevent a connection, you know, like coming over the Internet write an encrypted connection. If you can't then somebody can animate a humanoid robot and walk around and do that. That's not far off. Right? Like what I'm talking about her you've seen Boston Dynamics you seen the telepresence temperature Sgt system integration mean when you say just it's always tricky to do the latency will be the trickiest thing.
00:14:30But when you put that together, thanks for thinking about lots and lots of different professions being amenable to remote work to digital work right even five or six years ago Rio Tinto. It's a mining company. They were running fully autonomous Minds out of Perth. Right? And this is actually we're autonomy will and has come first everybody talks about you know, what time is driving trucks on the highway, but when you're on private property right when you got controlled environment right when it's fenced-in we've had no X trucks for a while, right? Because you can you can set up the entire thing. There's no there's no unexpected turns. There's no traffic on the road. You don't control you have it's like a circle Turnpike in the original sense, but turn back a private road right instrument with sensors. You can set it up for autonomy. Just like you can set up an assembly line to operate autonomously you just like a little larger than some of that took a private mine or a private farm right is also happening in in agriculture. People are you know, what time is farming is way Advance Beyond where people think it is she got all the stuff up and so that's all the information.
00:15:30The thoughts of physical labor that's actually Mining and farming huge chunks of economy are now amenable to like digital work, right? So that's kind of stuff that you can pull into like a VR environment and earn virtual currency for pay is going to save me a bunch of flies again. Exactly. The reason why do you think you can do them online? It's a 2d environment. Where is one of the 3D environment? I see you just as I can see slight movement in your mouth when you want to talk through that remotely in the sentence using much are quality by guess in a VR environment through my headset. We can sit opposite each other and it would be a very similar experience. What you need is a camera that is high fidelity enough to record every micro twitch like that and fashion and other Thor in VR that has that degree of body language ever have right that's getting close. Facebook has a project that starts to get
00:16:29Hyper realistic Avatar is an NVR and you've seen deepfakes. You've seen the extent to which you can animate all the muscles in the face on a computer. It's getting good Chinese app. That just came out this week cuz I quit in 7 seconds in front of face on a video clip and it's you that blew my mind. Actually, I think the next generation of the are cameras are or VR headsets may have some kind of two-way set up the tricky part is going to be at like recording the configuration dies and so on but that's all potentially feasibility just need like camera for the rest of your face and then something to record the position of the eyes and what not mean eye tracking software that already exists, right? So you kind of integrate these things to get a hyper realistic VR Avatar and now you just hyper deflate the cost to rent in so it doesn't matter what you know immigration restrictions people put up or or tariffs or things like that. If you can connect over the internet boom, you can like materialize and you
00:17:29Take me to price of course. They're still going to be in person. And actually one of the things I'm sort of long-term Bull on is like perfumes and food because we are conditioned his Sight and Sound and some extent touch via haptics right to those experiences will hyper deflate like you will be able to walk around the Louvre and so on write anything that's like a visual thing. You can be put into that but a perfumes and Foods often the thing that you know, like we don't yet have electronic sent a maybe you could stimulate nerves or something that I've been rolling. That's a little farther off. I don't feel the proof coins are there yet. So that's actually I think will become the compliment and of course everything's you know, if humans can't reproduce over the internet right away. I am how are saying that but we can do over the Internet. We aren't even there yet and we can do so is really that transition from the album a toy and fun to be in a tool to get a complete. What time is to be paid?
00:18:29Naturally, they going to be people who are going to be great in the bolts that can also mate those talks. So we will live in a very kind of strange World way. It's cuz it doesn't feel too far from The Matrix with a lot of it is an organic could get a bit weird. Yep. Do you think about that? Do you worry this risks of this? Well, it's interesting. You know, there's this term NPC that is your non-player county of this, video games. And one thing that sort of funny is in a bit like you play video game and you walk around and the way you interact with the shopkeeper in enter video game there an NPC there a kind of on a script right and you know for the most part like you somebody games will let you like draw your sword and like, you know, like in a fight with a shopkeeper, but for the most part, you know, there's two player character another player characters in this NPCs and a funny thing, you know, somebody eat like a not discussing this with him the other day, but most people who interact with on a daily basis, you know her like there's your co-workers. There's your friends and family over have you but lots of people
00:19:29Walking down the street might in a simulation. You wouldn't really be able to tell the difference right? You're not probing their internal mind-state. You're not really having a conversation with them the folks who you're walking down the street with in a crowd might as well be NPC's and envy are they maybe could be like, you know, when you go in and buy something at Starbucks, you're not engaging the cashier in a deep conversation. That would be an appropriate. Right? So it's as if that person could be in ABC Nut Butter this is no dishonor in Cashiers or anything like that people do not rent and even show us the point is that you could probably get pretty far in terms of an environment where there's only maybe twenty-eight like humans playing but ten thousand NPC use to make it feel a lot like like a normal environment so long as you didn't push any of these so-called mpc's too far outside the script. Do you see it though getting to the point where?
00:20:29This is one of the people plug into because they prefer from the ovary without it would be almost like you could be cheated. I mean if you go as far as thinking walking Phoenix film what he tells the relationship but it's like this sudden diarrhea is right. I mean it's like, you know, I'm too old for Tinder you like but married but catfishing does happen regular folks build relationships with essentially artificial constructs that are not the human being who they thought was under the rent. That's actually pretty common. So what do I think I think he's surely there's deep Human Relationships where you're fully touring testing the other person, but I think it interesting Insight is most human interactions are not like that. That's really cool or what. I'm most human interactions.
00:21:29Not deep Turing test where you're getting into spirituality and religion and deep believes in end zones are most of them, you know, frankly that you know from the Starbucks cashiers perspective. You're an NPC write another person coming up in a latte or whatever truly they could be in a Starbucks simulator and like in a once in a while a customer asks out or did something weird, but basically just queuing up, you know, what could they possibly remember one of the Thousand Angel people who comes every day? I got a really good memory may be so I think there's something to that because why is that, you know, she might say that sounds dystopian or bad is not there was a good aspect of it which is from some people. You know, what would they enjoy something like mathematics? Right? That's you know, like frankly if I if I have only one thing that I can do and you say I can only do one thing brush my life and say, okay. I've got the princess companion of of mathematics. Okay. I'll at least be reasonably happy right? Give me a pen pencil in that and I can work on that pretty much the rest of my life for a lot of people do they really want some kind of social connections social?
00:22:29Approval affirmation Center in this kind of your environment if people don't really know who's real and who's fake you could have, you know, every woman a queen Every Man a king write everyone's a winner because everyone super popular everyone has thousands of people telling them how great they are and then and so on and so forth and most people can't be celebrities outside what VR and Ein the same PC thing to do is a good hyper to flee the experience of being a celebrity because all these people are watching the stuff and tell him to like, oh, I wish I could be LeBron, you know, I wish I could be I don't know Ariana Grande or something like that right is a very common aspiration for four people and for people who are like that the VR environment would probably be better, you know to them than there than Roth Lombard IL recetas with lots of young men who just biscuit play video games all day because it's it's frankly better than they're offline apartment when the most interesting things with the study people, you know, say oh, this is a bad thing and I can understand how it's bad.
00:23:29Actually happier like you know that there's no way that they can achieve maybe that level of success or they think they can Tan in your the offline World VR every mannequin. Everyone McQueen. To who is this funny thing? Because you know, if your headset on end up scoring the winning goal in the World Cup final so we can let me give a potential counterexample that if you think about what's happening Twitter over the last 10 years, right? I'm on the naughty step today. Yeah. I'm sorry to hear that.
00:24:10Get your Twitter in 2007 or 2018 or 2007 before the Arab Spring aspect. He was people tweeting their breakfast, right and the idear that it would be an international incident that could start a nuclear war 12 years later that every politician would be on it and every country in every language that a significant fraction newspaper articles would essentially be rappers around tweets that people would routinely on a daily basis get fired for this that people would care so much about this that the that the venue of politics would shift from offline to this is public Warzone that we've developed and can't seem to escape from that would seem like impossible right? But that's what it is. Please make things better. What else? I think it's
00:25:01So it's not too but it's also a free Donut Shop is open all the way out to people's and it's allow people to engage directly with people. They don't normally reach which is good. That's what we say there. I think is a very important special case of a general observation one of my serve general rules, which is the internet increases bearings in anything. You'll get more upside and more downside for example overrides you have if you compare the taxi rides, they have both extremely long rides a taxi Redstone and extremely short pickups. If you take the 30-minute sitcom, we now have, you know, like 10 second gifts and you have 10-hour Netflix binges. You you go from oh, you know this person
00:25:53You know, like like it's working in a gig economy job from a normal job to this person is made a killing an in crypto, right? And so variance just increases where you you started out with the 30-minute sitcom and the 95 job and doing stuff that was sort of bucketed in this slot. And then you got things are much smaller than that and much larger than that on both ends. Right? Like I can just come and what do I think is good about Twitter? What it what I what I love about Twitter want three of them want it still is at its best. You can find people of like mind you can learn you can learn about all these different professions. I can actually spend most of my time on Twitter in read-only mode, right? I learn about geophysics. I learn about the politics of some country that I've never visited then I just use Google Translate. I read like a thousand tweets on my car. Okay. So this this this you can learn about history and you know, all types of stuff you can learn about it. So it's like this library, right? But it's a library combined with a civil war.
00:26:53You're here studying, right and there's people who are just shooting at each other and sometimes you'll put out something which is meant for your audience of folks who want to study in thing at and then you know, like one of the the war zone participants will catch win Division come over and start shooting at you right and try to pull you into the ongoing worldwide social war that we have. So what it would actually think, you know, ultimately happens on chesil Twitter, but with Facebook and all these other things is we are unbundling and will eventually rebundle the nation-state thing that is a macro the most important consequence of the smartphone the internet crypto all of the UNLV are all of these things together we to unsummon called tibau sorting tiebout French to like everything should you know, I'm writing up some equations on this a while back and then I went and did some research and like everything somebody invented the concept 50 years ago 7 years.
00:27:532 tiebout came out with the Madison Inn lighting like 1950 something and it's incredibly prescient model where he says he's got like seven assumptions. He's like, okay if people have perfect information and they can move anywhere like migration process very low and there isn't spillover effects between communities and so on and so forth. He has a model for essentially how you can solve the free rider problem politics where folks him since he moved between jurisdictions to the one that suits our preferences, right? So basically you treat your ballot not as aggravated alone, but as a search query, okay. So for example you check off here is my preferred tax rate. Here's my preferred, you know, like like an abortion policy gun policy gay marriage policy, whatever you do your vector preferences aggregating that with other people in your car in geography you treat as a search query and you rank were all the jurisdictions of the world here Singapore hero Switzerland. Here's their Sears at and here's a
00:28:53Smash tutu my you know set of beliefs right migrate there before that happens offline. That's already happening online, right? That's your Twitter follower stats of Facebook groups are joining. This is happening organically. Now where you're searching for something that's that's a Bitcoin and crypto Community because I'm being drawn past me into America interesting. So I built my podcast right and if my guess my plus 50% lessons are American I'm getting sucked now in to American politics in discussions like a show about gun rights and I'm trying to understand that and now I'm looking at how do I move here? How do I immigrate it on living what you were saying? Exactly. Basically, I think that aspect of folks finding their ideological compatriots in the cloud and then migrating physically is the story of the century.
00:29:53That is the big thing that the internet is going to catalyze a gigantic wave of mass migrations where folks mean they're like like they're there their co-religionists. Are there Co audiologist in the cloud and a pain form communities offline some examples include, you know, I had it I had an article on this in 2013 six years ago actually call software is reorganizing the world. Why are dismissive the formatting? I should probably repost it on my on my block or something. Get my blog up by the way. I got like so many Blockbusters female holding back while I didn't notice I clicked on the link and took me to meet him and they haven't done anything since I think 2007. I literally have only heard of a hundred blog post written i7 publish any of them. The reason for that is on my phone or your my local thing or whatever part of that just because
00:30:39Whatever you are a founder or an executive or see you or something like that. You really want to minimize unnecessary drama and in this is something to understand as to why cuz you know, yes by Avicii and what have you why do we try to maintain like message discipline? That's always successful. Right? But the reason is because it's selfish for you to cause unnecessary drama when your employees and your investors and your customers and so on are depending on the continued health of your organization, right as an executive, you typically only want to take the minimum necessary number of polarizing position position. You take can cut your you know support Basin in half or at least, you know, even if it's 70% support for this year. You've just lost like a 30% the audience right as it will have to do I take polarizing positions. I'll sit in one camp and then I'll sit in the other Camp to try and see what the different arguments in point of view on bring then open up and understand the debate apps.
00:31:39So as a as a commentator right up where you don't have a social network supply chain of critical concept people talk about a supply chain, you know, for example your billing iPhone and you've got you know, you got a supply of aluminum in a supply of rare Earth elements and and glass and all the stuff and there's multiple vendors for that thing and then someone if there's a supply chain disruption Like An Earthquake and suddenly you can't get your Rare Earth elements have a back-up plan real surprise to go to spike. Okay set the supply chain is social network. Supply chain is something where you visualize yourself and then you visualize all the nodes around you right here is your manager here are your co-workers here is this key vendor here are these investors? Here's this customer and you actually want to look at these folks and say all right, which of them would go south in the event of a negative news article coming from this or that political Direction ride again? Okay, cuz that's what a social network supply chain disruption. Looks like I can't believe you.
00:32:39Oh my God, you did this right. Funding or doesn't your customers, you know, maybe like I can't believe you're so she with us and then they'll pull it right and that's becoming a bigger and bigger thing everywhere right hand in American politics. That's what people think of where the meritorious but because they're on the other side of a Cryptid tribal divide omigod. You know, like I can't believe you you treat a possibly about that are liked it or whatever right now. I think Trump is actually the best place for this relative to normal politics. And the reason is crypto does give people at an incentive to admit they were wrong.
00:33:22But they don't enough. I want to come to the water but we we went on the times that you have entertainment channel was in my mind. Just like when you do things going through my mind, it was a free market for Joker face with a currency's you'll belief system. Yes, if you can find your computer if it's like this and move to them and end like your movement cost is 0 and you can work from the new place that I can sharpen your income and someone then no matter how like mixed up. The initial world is you will get this rapid sorting of people into you know, the the Republic of action and the the town of wind and the City of Z that reflect the respective leaves and sexy a different model for diversity. You have a thousand different like micro cities microstates Etc that are pure examples or particular way of living unit in my 2013 article. I made a table
00:34:21I called cloud formations taking physical shape and what's a cloud formation defined as a group of people who meets online and then beats a person Save A stranger's you met online for the first time and then they met up in person. So for example of a two-person cloudformation meeting up for a day, that's like two people meet on LinkedIn that they you know, come together for coffee or whatever. Right? What's two people for a year. Be like eHarmony meet up on eHarmony and Oregon year or even 10 years right there their they're marry their 3rd together, right what, you know a hundred thousand people for a day. Well, that's like somebody's Proto right, you know folks meet up online and in and they come together, right? You know, what's like seventy thousand hundred thousand people for a week. That's burning man. Right and you start to see this table of scale and duration. There is no upper limit to the scale and racially cloud formations in theory. You could take a hundred thousand people from the cloud and have them live together for a year or ten years. That's what I call a cloud cities and eventually
00:35:21Countries will sort of Steel out of the cloud into physical formation rent and we were still at the early stage of that would be you know, why combinator is every conference, you know liquor reels conference Django conference. There's there's no offline things just store that sells you Django. You going to learn about online you come to the conference, right? Sure already seen this thing happening is happening in many different ways, but hasn't it happened is returning to new political units for think that's where it's all so annoying.
00:35:58Next stop I told to Balaji more about these crazy virtual Wells, but the fool that I do have a message from my amazing Spence's set fastly. Let's talk about drop it the best Bitcoin want to have that I told you about these going to a just now. Have you downloaded it? Have you got it? You should pickled so many cool things to do in and things coming up. Actually they call this one thing they working on a really want to tell you about it. I really want to sneak out there, but I had to do another going to kick my ass. So I don't ruin the surprise I can tell you is cool. Timetable is coming soon. I'm also going to be heading out to Ohio in October to hang out with them. They got his coravin coming out that they're running something to help with that. If any of you out there any Buckeyes want to come and hang out and grab a beer keep an eye out for that. But drop it is definitely my favorite Bitcoin wallets. I love everything that you and I love the Innovation. I love the fact that you can't read between the people. That's so cool. I love the fact you can text me when the people I love everything that was going on. Have you called it? And have you downloaded it? Come on.
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00:38:16Do you see this pause part of something that will ultimately lead to less government and potentially the demonetization of the state because cryptocurrencies are natural fit within the varmints, you know, the the audio of Bitcoin is it that it separates money estate? Hopefully at least two less walls, that's fine. Once I think I heard you say but you might have caught it from the sovereign individual. So do you see this is all part of that by the way, I think from Julian Assange a meeting with cryption. It doesn't matter. If you have an army Houston compute took to crack it and and frankly if you know the password you can crack it or the prep you rather you much faster reverse backup to your other person of money and stay away from the government and whether or not it can happen a lot of Bitcoin maximalist note to a future of Bitcoin ization, you know there would prophesy that hopefully the state
00:39:16Contacts will take your money from you and that for you demagnetize a state and you make the fiat currency of little value. So they can't buy weapons and they come with Mars attack other countries. That's like a future design, I'm hearing you talk about here in terms of unit is virtual walls that you get to live in part of your time and potentially be considered a new places you like to live. How do you regulate that right becomes very difficult to regulate that and is that the disease online environment with the cross-section of cryptocurrency potentially accelerate that demonetization of the state because of this of this whole online virtual world happening which they can potentially control. So, yeah, it was awesome, He made this guy you work with Marc Andreessen Netscape. He said the only two ways I know how to make money in business are unbundling and bundling right and it is meant to be like, you know, kind of a
00:40:16What kind of comment be like what is he saying? Right but it's and I'll come back to your BF. It's extremely true rights. I'll give some examples, you know, the MP3 unbundled albums in Spotify rewind 07 playlist with the different digits unbundled news and then Twitter search RI bundles them into feeds or hashtags or what have you read? Like they're grouped Again by by something and you can see the same thing over and over again you first fracture fragment, you know, the the existing thing and you break like that business model and then new business models form because people serve want some for Discovery use some form of curation. It said it right in the first you might think we'll owe. I'm just come back to the same place, but I think of it more like a corkscrew right where lots and lots of things are cyclic Universe example, you you start a company you gain employees eventually create a bureaucracy and then someone leaves to go and start a company, but there's actually progress along the z-axis SS cycling.
00:41:16These things are there is kind of like a corkscrew that you know kind of phenomenon up and it's so true for the unbundling in bottling. So the way I think about how hyperbitcoinization and so on maps of this in a very sympathetic to a lot of that stuff actually a Knights of the earliest proponents of the stuff. I was kind of a Maximus before Bitcoin maximalism heard kind of got a lot of people into Bitcoin very early in in Silicon Valley on dojo maximalism list and I can tell you why that's interesting so someone you know very well. I don't know how to I just recently that I quite liked was a big Queen Centrist the condensation do I think it happens? Yes in the sense of I do believe that the short-term incentives for lots of states that can print they will print and because it keeps them in office, you know.
00:42:16Like a way to Kick the Can out X number of years and to the short-term incentives are believed to you know, because she kind of rising and you know, it's amazing to see, you know, the president United States or the head of the fed or the chair of the IMF for the head of the bee is everybody knows about crypto every head of every major Bank. It is like it's only since we're accelerating and you you kind of each headline those things. I've said a surprising from the 2019 contacts from 2013 or 2011 or 2018 or 10 that be mind-blowing you note for people to actually be taking it seriously, right? However, I think that so that the unbundling right governments that are not internationally competitive when it comes to their various policies or that, you know are unwise when it comes to your monitor possible Printing and they'll go away but not all governments are dumb because I think it's very important, the state or the government to a government is 193 nation-states world.
00:43:16And in some of these dates like Estonia Israel, Switzerland Singapore and actually China are you know run by Engineers, you know, it's only a two month old was the prince in computer scientist Benjamin Netanyahu is a degree from MIT Lee hsien loong who's the son of Lee Kuan Yew run Singapore. He was a Wrangler at Cambridge. So super smart guy actually posted like a Sudoku solver in in C plus plus on Facebook, which is actually like those are pretty legit. Right? So these are folks who think like Engineers are the trains are engineers and frankly actually China to swell like all the folks who have run the Chinese Communist Party. Are you most like the seizure thing? I believe the civil engineer who is an electrical engineer and so on right there that they really slept for engineer Sarah and that's why you don't like the great firewall. They implemented in the early 2000s as an instrument of policy seem pretty far ahead. And you might ask how many people in the US government even know. What a firewall is cuz they Define it for you.
00:44:16Prescience of that again like without endorsing it just saying the presence of the another day Twitter stop the Chinese government from running ads on Twitter about the Hong Kong airport. Just getting the Chinese government's plan. If you settled state-sponsored media ever not going to take out from them, but NPR is okay, right NPR's. Okay. BBC is okay there State sponsor their like the Western. I'm a me to write a comment, which is well pretty smart for Chinese have diep flap on Twitter before Twitter to fly from China.
00:44:48They saw head recognizing that letting in Twitter Facebook Etc would potentially let them to get cut off by these, you know for an interest in the future. And so they just throw the fireball closer Years to all the entries in a really smart guy offered to name his child after you don't like a rather have a season Pig name is child rights to all these and treaties. They just closed her ears and they're like milk and you know, they they simulated the birth of their own industry there with the sort of far-sighted nationalism frankly. And so now they and they can't be that the seat KVD platform. So my point is not all governments are actually dumb read. Some of them are smart. Some of them are run by engineer send them have some degree of fourside her to have you and those governments. I think we'll Embrace crypto in different ways like going to roll out their own crypto right now. Will it be a stablecoin? Probably I don't think they want something that oscillates up and down your they didn't work Monday for menu.
00:45:48I've heard about it and stuff that they are they actually do it. But at some point they will do it and other other smaller countries probably have established positions in BTC or something like that. I would not be surprised if Sovereign sons of done so just to have made a huge stink about it. And so did your that every government is going to fail simultaneously in so I don't think that's the case. I think especially some of the smaller polities and the big exception of China, which is the largest polity but run by Engineers the US was both really large and really rich and Democratic and capitals has an outlier main Dimensions Chinese like the outlier for the most part lots of smaller governments in this Century, which are run by Engineers. I think we'll Embrace crypto and won't die from it. Just kind of one aspect of it is I think lots of software CEOs will eventually start becoming effectively de facto heads of state. And so that's interesting right? Because you know, I'll give you an example of a few years ago. There was a person running AC
00:46:4860 million person social network called the United Kingdom that was really happy to do like a video chat with the Zuckerberg who's running a billion person. So she never called Facebook and I forgot the exact conductivity Google Cameron Zack or something like that, which is the very tone of it. I was like, wow, you know like Cameron understood that controls distribution that controls his re-election write a tweet about this but somebody like Zach has really not brought the other hand out from behind his back. He has taken incredible amounts of abuse for the past two and a half years, but just to give you a sense of like the bleedin power he has should you decide to use it he can put a push notification at the top 2 billion people's Facebook feeds he can make every single person there read his point of view. He could start a newspaper at Facebook. That's like Twitter moments, you know where basic everybody looks at it and that it would be able to stop him from doing that.
00:47:48Sticky's there's like a thousand things he could do is more distribution than any newspaper any nation-state because I actually look at it. Right any of that the top of the fetus be tested out something about like Oprah's Book Club likes have to get some book recommendations. So that guy went to the top of the Amazon best sellers list, of course, but that's like the only thing he's done future software CEOs will probably more consciously think of themselves as building countries and what you can do is build a country in the cloud and then materialize in physical space. I think that's actually where the future is. The reason smoking is I wrote down when you started talking about this does technology have a school bus?
00:48:35You know what? I would say to your best software. CEO is likely quantia Lee Kuan Yew was ultimately a pragmatist, right and his metric for Success was is what I'm doing good for Singapore. Like is it good for my people at all? So of course subject to ethics, right? He wasn't like killing people outside or whatever, you know, like the basic was what he's doing good for Singapore. So because of that, you know, he took policies that would be considered left right center off the map or whatever, right? For example Singapore's HSA there at the way their health system works is both far to the left and far to the right of the American system. So it's part of the left of the system in that it's a compulsory savings account is debited to fill up this Singapore HSA and the whole compulsory aspect of it was the big thing that you know, people fought against for the Bounty are the mandated to her that's considered like fart. Compulsory deduction 2% but it was also to the right because once that money is there in your HSA.
00:49:35Total free market capitalism there is an insurance and reimbursement. So not just like you can pay cash. It's essentially for the service and said that combination is outside of the political cone of of the you ask and has resulted from the best health health outcomes. The world Troy said that's kind of one example of ism and it say that your your best software CEOs do stuff that's like that where is left wing? Is it right wing? Who cares? It works right black cat white cat doesn't matter if it catches mice that are example of this actually is in the hole free lunch thing at at Safra companies, right Larry Page Google. They're really the big pioneers of this in the late 90s early 2000 and many people looked at that. They're like these these dumb SF hippies wasting money, you know. They understand how expensive that is just like incinerating it in from your kind of rigid libertarian point of view. You say well, of course, if you give everybody individual amounts of money, they would go and optimize because they purchase their own food and
00:50:35Will satisfy the preferences more in and what have you write give somebody else buying on their behalf is public Choice Theory roll all that stuff out. Okay, what actually happened? So is that Central Gathering Place that people come each day at those communities are people that are hanging out each day gets here. Sometimes they don't have to go and shop for food or or lunch. I'll see you got to come to the scale. You can get some guns better food there and D. It actually makes money for the business because people are working more hours. Right since you don't have to leave and come back to just one of those things were actually sort of coercing people into this actually getting money from their paycheck to defacto right to to pay for these lunches and dinners hopping them into something against our will because they're still chosen the job. They still quit right did the macro exit button of the micro choices weather Topton to this lunch or dinner. They can't get over fifty bucks a day. If they say I'll never come to dinner right now comes and letting everybody have a free choice and that's interesting because that's against you know, kind of butter called dogmatic libertarian.
00:51:35But ultimately if there's a choice between. Vs. Better consequences for the people as a whole you take the better consequence of strength, no not the American Revolution it just happened there have been all the propaganda about the right of a free people to dissolve their bonds from you know, this remote entity that's taxing us and whatever right and so these farmers and I believe Western Pennsylvania Penny on their kind of invoking the same writer like f the new American central government we are here again, so just put down the Rebellion is right and so it was it was it was it hypocritical sure. Did it like Network in some sense? Yeah, because the us became like a powerful country right. That's why there's a saying like revolutions are judged by their fruit write any Revolution.
00:52:35Will take extralegal mechanisms mechanisms that are cannot be justified by the law and the most remarkable things about history is sometimes you have order come for men with swords. Like you taking lunch, right you have these these these people with the powdered wigs the judges, right and it's all ceremonial like this whole court but that maps all the way back to like Battle of Hastings 1066 and people just killing each other with swords and from that chaos comes order. It's always mean something very remarkable to me that that happens in history of his descendants of some is it leads to order to that's that's I think with the right software CEO should do. See not kill some of the place or the rather do things that are right for the for the people regardless of where it's at. But what is right of the people is like that decision. So I wanted to say if Twitter was run by a snort Republican would I be on the notice that they would have my 12-hour suspension for saying
00:53:36Mean what we're actually we're in response to somebody who's been bullying people in line. So I would have happened if it was a republican running Twitter and also a lot of Silicon Valley companies about the large companies CEOs tend to be liberals and we witness is significant about the platforming and since the ship. Of the views tentative reflect the political boss of the CEO. This is very important area and I want to choose my words carefully so are most Texas Democrats. I think that's probably true. What does what does that actually mean in practice? I think that even if they were staunch Republicans the incentive structure in the short-term
00:54:33Is set up in such a way that they don't really have a choice right? Because let's suppose that there's some you know Siri's better. Toriel's that is, you know, calling for so-and-so Tubidy platform door or whatever. I don't supposed to resist. Okay, then it'll escalate to for example trying to go after their investors were trying to go after their advertisers and and get them to pull because they've got this awful person on their platform in 10 to 1 in in the short-term. Essentially the incentives are to comply with the mop right because you can comply with them up in the long-term. However, the most important Swing Vote in the world I would argue is the anti Trump pro cryptotech Democrat.
00:55:20Okay, that's that seems like a very Arcane creature right leg does that exist in the wild? It's like this unicorn or pegasus with her but it's actually very very important because these are the folks who typically run these these platforms right? I'll give it one or two concrete examples of that naming all of them but like Dorsey, so on the one hand Dorsey is deplatforming people today on their hand is Born Again Bitcoin maximalist.
00:55:46Right, ok and earrings for Bitcoin into square cash and all the type of stuff. He understands that he's put you know, like this into square crypto. He's hired people you smart enough to get that right in a different way. Also recognizes how important your job is right and while I would argue with many specifics of how they roll. Libre actually think his overall heart is in the right place in the sense of for example, is Big push on privacy. I think it's actually real. I mean, I know a lot of people involved but faced with the Hobson to contrary like arguments being lodged against Facebook. The first was oh you aren't censoring enough essentially like you need to filter your platform. They hate speech to this a. And the second was your not private enough, right? Oh, we're wasting their privacy invaded her and these are actually mutually incompatible arguments because in order to censor you need to invade privacy because you track messages and so on so forth, but it was kind of an any port in the storm. Any any weapon to hand people just lobbing rocks at Facebook, right? So intelligently understood that
00:56:46Incompatible things and you can kind of go down one road and sacrifice the other and we did was he said let's go hard on privacy lost people internally doing that. There are folks who wanted to actually go harder on censorship. He actually took the bar called the Centrist kind of you almost like the dead center view of you know, we're going to go hard and privacy because we can't do both right and this is actually the long-term Trend to Technologies for incentives are as well. It was good for the company because you could see the traction of what's happened signal in crypto and all this other stuff in pee pee on Snapchat, obviously.
00:57:18It's a those are two examples of anti Trump Pro cryptotech Democrats. Right? And the reason I think this is ridiculously important is
00:57:26In the long-term the blocks invocation of these platforms both directly and those that are funded by them and their compliments to them will put them in his own Beret. They make more money which they have to do for their shareholders and their employees in soil and B. They can t platform.
00:57:44When you are in that zone you actually have innocence book more money and more power. Right why you have more power because anybody who gets the top of one of these companies regardless of their political views, you don't become the CEO of a 10 billion 100 billion dollar Company by bending to the you don't like venting to the month. We don't like doing that right ear you agree with them politically. You're like a nietzschean Will To Power kind of person and why you want like some crazy person internet dictating to you what your schedule is, even if you inferior gruesome ideological get your backup private biscuits today. The deplatforming thing is something which is arguably like a right-of-center kind of issue. I think it's very quickly. If you're not already coming toward the center in a bipartisan issue. You know, why the reason is the YouTube demonetization stuff and someone is hit lots of people lots of false positives all over the political spectrum and
00:58:42Eventually, what's going to happen is folks are going to turn they're going to realize that their passwords are there private keys in the in the sense of like your SC traffic using a computer scientist uses for her for logging into raincoat and your your crypto private keys are all kind of like the same thing and that ideally what happens if you have a crypto like security model for for Twitter or Facebook, you just dock your ship with them, right? You'll think it more like the Microsoft Essential Oils IDs, that's going to be another name. Yeah. I said it said that's worth checking out right at her butt. Org actually pretty it's Bitcoin pretty interesting project where let's say that it is almost as optimized for cryptocurrency development and and blockchain development as Linux was for the internet, right? I think it still needs some like, you know, like like folks building on it and what not, but it's essentially set up to store your key is locally in to be a rapper.
00:59:42Server not a personal client right like your laptop over here conservit files. It's not really built to do that. Your orbit orbit ship is built to be a server and it's also built to host lots of private keys and keep them in an encrypted like look up a secure Enclave like thing. You've got a social network and you dock with it right in the time that you like put your Bitcoin in coinbase and you can pull it out and no one can stop you right or shouldn't be able to stop you right? I know I know yet in a sense of if you are an account in good standing, right? You can remove your stuff and leave even that can be debated. What is it account an account in good standing. So I interview to sex Waka Flocka Arrow actress. She make some money in a legal way.
01:00:34She's a she's an actress. She was depop owned by coinbase of being a sex worker, which is a legal job.
01:00:45We can talk further back when he's one of things is coinbase is ultimately subject to banking Regulators. Right? And so there are things that you have to do to stay in good graces with them to keep the Fiat trails open 4:30 million users that you know, they'll basically like this account of suspicious and it won't actually tell you throw them off sometimes they will write but they basically say your reputation points with us to do this and if you do so then well, we may keep your limit slow or we mean like Drop support for you because our licenses in danger from the government or from the Press, but what a strange gray area where it's not based on fact is it's almost exactly why censorship right? Because the first amendment prohibits the government from just outright censoring people write in China.
01:01:45Open in the US. It's actually like it. It's more Artful and deniable. What happens is, you know, some of the regulator will come in base could be like, oh did you know that so and so it is is on your platform and ask that question right there very careful about what they put in email. They won't say throw them off the platform and then the bank will see that look like shit and then they will have an internal meeting and you know, their general counsel say well if we don't depart from this person, then you know, we might have like a legal problem government in the person.
01:02:22Now think about what happened there the responsibility falls in the Gap because of banking claim quite legitimately that you know, they were taking a risk of having all their other customers shut down by the sea and the Steed can deny that they ever ask for a show texts are just asking questions guy has an account with you. So in this fashion, it's all set up to meet the right in a sense. This is sort of like the art of where Western Civilization is right. Now you had this decentralized censorship, you know kind of regime now against that stands crypto which is decentralized censorship resistance. And that is a real, you know game on civilization battle that we're going to be waiting in a strange place that somebody coinbase has them because they are fighting it's almost like that fighting the battle with the government but it was her defending the rights with Bitcoin to being part of the Bitcoin ecosystem. The other one I always think of those is capital, and I have this very strange real.
01:03:22His views on such as of the ship very interesting. I took a look at Capital, and it was just hate-filled. Yeah, racist sexist homophobic very strange world of censorship web why I don't think we should have censorship but all the places where I kind of see the like the resistance like Gap is just fucking disgusting. Let me give you actually so I thought about this a lot and I think it's a historical example that I think a great deal about that that brings us into I think Clarity which is
01:03:58So it in the Soviet Union right in the the pre Deng Xiaoping China sold 1949 to 1978 Mickey Mouse mouse. China capitalism was illegal, right and profit was stigmatized because those prices were broken and Supply chains are broken and Entrepreneurship was punishable by death and markets as we know them didn't exist. And you know, you couldn't just like switch a job or get a raise or make money in any normal sense like the idea of who is like a rich person in the Soviet Union that didn't like computer people like that like a penis or a mathematician or an admiral or something like that. But how many people kind of didn't really exist in the same way? So sad this one thing this denial of capitalism pathologize broke many different aspects of society and turn into some bizarre dysfunctional shape because they were in denial about this necessary evil or even arguably a good profit on the consequence of this is
01:04:58The only kind of two types of people who would be what we called capillus in the Soviet Union. They were first a very small minority of Highly rational dissidents, right, you know could could be in a society and could think these thoughts that were so Taboo in pathologize by the USSR mean from your you're giving all of this crap, right? And you know that these thoughts like maybe prophets a good thing. Are you are you an American Support? Are you were in China? Are you a capitalist roader? Like what about our great October Revolution? And how many died in the Great Patriotic War you hate our troops you hate our country like everything we sacrifice for you don't like the entire Society had been based on this lie. And so so people got really head up about it was irrational are going to send me some emotional arguments. So very hyper rational logical person in with a ton of like taste and sensitivity to consider capital is
01:05:57Message Justin and you know who the other group was?
01:06:02Black Market has the true Grand Theft Auto kind of people and you know, so like something's got to interact with them till I can buy a tomato or something like that. And yeah in theory you might have my think. Yeah, I support capitalism the abstract and you dragged them in every bad. Spirit of capitalism was actually present they could cut you they can rob you they were like criminals right to operating outside law and yeah, dude buy and sell but it was like every stereo type of the regime talk about came to life these orderly ruthless things and you're like, they're not going to promote me. I guess actually the regime is right about how evil capital is Minsk is all the capitals of encountering our evil, right? It's actually sort of similar to the hole in our anything. You know, if you if capitals is outlawed only Outlaws will become capitalist, right? And the reason I think that's that extended her circles damplis is didactic is that when there's Behavior that's not sanctioned. It's pushed these extremes a tiny group of hyper-rational us in a much larger group of basically criminals and and folks can't keep it in their pants.
01:07:02Physically, right and so I think that's what happened with gab right is you just filtered for the kind of people who are censored on Twitter and a lot of them are like basically batch bright like the guy you in a shot of the synagogue whatever these guys are actual lunatics or not. Like, oh, I just made a comment. I have a political point of either actually lunatics, right? So that's unfortunately sort of like what happens when you like sensor capillus, you know that you get loot XP in capitalist or criminals hear you you you censor ideas and you have only lunatics espousing them, but it's not a reflection of the merits of capitalism and not even a reflection of the ocean say all but some of these ideas are being censored right so that's going to
01:07:44Do you worry that with the growth of cryptocurrency is stupid Bitcoin that if we have the separation of money and state that will obviously changed the structure of a country in the house of the country. But if that doesn't happen if someone like China because it's coming this they do have the great far will they have their restrictions in place? This could actually lead to the expansion of Communism around the world, but China is not coming to SUNY typical sense. I mean, you know what, I mean that people leave the country that I think is actually like the core kind of, you know things now to be clear doesn't let them leave the country with all their money very easily and so and it's not as perfect as well to Switzerland or Singapore and it wasn't a perfect but
01:08:36It's like if you know it would it would life is like in China in the end of the 40s and 50s 60s the early 70s, is it a couple of references that you know you my post in your Twitter feed a reference is this great article short one on NPR called The Secret contract the transfer a few times a quick capsule summary most most westerners don't know how China became rich like mechanistically, right? You know, I was under Mao first there was a mouse plane to legitimacy and fame was driving the Japanese in winning the civil war against Chiang Kai-shek got driven to Taiwan and then you drove the people of China through Great Leap Forward, but you know tens of millions of people died and you're very propaganda campaign send it like by the mid-60s. He felt his power slipping.
01:09:28Until you push the thing called the cultural revolution, which essentially got student activists all head up. They turn into red guards and they were told to denounce their parents smash Idols. You know, anybody who is smart was like sent to the fields because if your pressure you're clearly a criminal and this madness went on for like 10 years people's lives Cruiser destroyed, you know, like at least like a million people died and finally by like 1976 who would be a communist revolutionary, but he being purged 3 times and you know, if you read about the USSR or you know, China you'll hear the term Persia lot. You know, what a good synonym for that is for modern American canceled. So like, you know when you're cancelled right on Twitter, boom you lose, you know, you're you don't lose your life liberty or property and that's a big step up actually from where the USSR and Malice China work, but you do lose your future income.
01:10:24And your current job in a lot of your status and friends. That's pretty bad. Hey, I've lost a marketing channel today since I have been cancelled is basically like wood being purged was like in danger of paying it actually being purged not once not twice, but three times literally sent to the fields, but he was so wildly and so smart and so cunning and so confident that he managed to work his way back by the mid-70s after Mama died his wife and three others so Cal gang of four, we're maneuvering for control of China putting jumping out maneuvered them and eventually Basie got control of like the Army and what not and then they were actually under arrest and then dang put all of his guys into you know, like positions of power.
01:11:13Show me China when you know very quietly to the right and ding knew that he couldn't make the entire country capless at once because like a Communist Revolution like a like a left-of-centre revolution is change the flag change the anthem change everything. It's year zero start over boom write the revolution that that danged was actually much more gradual and a super example.
01:11:38He your cross the causeway from from Hong Kong in Yukon was successful use Singapore successful in Taiwan with successful people. Clearly. There's nothing like, you know holding like the Chinese back from building great societies. So he's like, okay, I'm going to set up a special economic zone across the causeway from Hong Kong was call. It sends a tree fence it off and it's just an experiment right? She wasn't trying to turn the entire country cap. Listen to most people are named affected by this. He's been his political capital on this and of course that was like, you know, boom just one vertically like about you know, allowed in practice capitalism. You took this deadweight off their their backs and it started going vertical wood that he use that political Capleton set up three more special economic zones across the east east coast Seaboard and then AR-15 in by the mid-eighties China Star the hum, right there's tons of other things he did and there's a good book on this by Ezra Vogel, you know Anton if you want the book length version, what are the things about this whole thing is being so far as in a free sample of a huge amount of American popular culture is
01:12:38The Holocaust was bad avoid that, you know Nazis are bad etcetera, like clearly something to avoid a huge part of Chinese culture is the cultural revolution was really bad. We want to avoid that bread that level of instability like, you know, like crazy in a red car. It's going and smashing everything must stop at anything that looks like that stop that nip it in the bud right order rather than chaos. So like Tiananmen looks like that look like the cultural revolution Super Bowl right looks like they react to the stuff like Americans Rec Charlottsville. You got guys like literally like in Nazi uniform parading around. Okay, you're just going to hit them with everything you got right and so in the same way folks seem to be trying to destabilize China or other things at the Hong Kong has ring. They're putting up like the American flag to bring up the Hong Kong flag that are big thing in China the legitimacy the regime in addition to economic growth. That's one big.
01:13:38Legitimacy breasts on throwing up colonialist right after Century of humiliation Xin, you know the Opium Wars and the British occupation of Hong Kong for all these years China has and for these folks to go and Rouse like American flags British flags Etc is basically like saying let's colonize, you know the country again. I'm something by the way, I like it actually come and said that you know, some of these shooting leaders are like, yeah, we need America coming in like physically intervene or dark. So those are things which uniform many Mainland Chinese are like these guys are bad. I should have said that I might hate about Mike of money on the Piedmont head by the US government that the money goes towards Wars and drones and can happens.
01:14:25Is there a risk if you separate money and state from these Western Kappa smoker sees that you Empower authoritarian regimes. It just seemed right now the spread of Chinese. I mean, yes, but we also plan to say which Americans real swimming around the world like in Lowell Snowden Revelations. The end of the u.s. Is biscuit wiretapping everybody at all times right with you know that absence Google Break Taps + Facebook Etc. And so it's not something that's like I would actually think if I have to bet on who was surveilling more people and against her will it's almost certainly the American scene. That's kind of number 1 1991 net where America intervened it was better than the alternative. For example, South Korea is better place to live in North Korea right chilly a better place to live than Cuba.
01:15:25Grand Prix Revolution a better place to live than post right like going to West Germany a better place to live in East Germany Hong Kong and Taiwan and Singapore a better place to live than mainland China and on and on like, you know, so so on net America, you know, even though it definitely did a lot of extralegal things during the time all the CIA stuff over. However, I'd say you can justify it by comparing it to the alternative of Communism at 8 since that point and this is happened gradually over the 90s in mm and so on American intervention least countries worse off than they were before right you may have seen Siri of the photos before and after he was a completely functional country, right? Like it had nice pools and Resorts and so it really was not that bad and you know, like Americans Reventon turned it into like a free-fire Zone with Isis some people killing each other left and right. Yeah, I mean exactly
01:16:25It was an Isis with like, you know, literally like women drag around as slaves and people beheaded in the street Like a Rock was not a great country, but it had like, you know functional airport and like it wasn't just a mass murderer and in people killing each other. That's right. It can be worse. Right? So if Iraq Syria Libya Tunisia basically and you can also argue, Georgia lots of places that the u.s. Is for meant to be so cold color revolutions are worse off than they were answered leave the US no longer has its own house in order right us itself is just freaking Warzone every single day, you know, the the shootings in the financial crisis, which is still ongoing. I like all types of stuff like this, right and and so therefore it like I kind of think there was a. Over which you could argue roughly like 45 291 in American intervention was for the better on net right then since then it has been argued for the worse right on net.
01:17:25And of course you can point to exceptions. I'm not saying it's Universal but so from Majestic pure results standpoint, right? You have to question whether or not like this is leaving this country is better off right by contrast Chinese intervention in Africa with the belt and Road and someone you look at it before and after things are getting built. It looks like the opposite of what happened in Syria, right and see where things are being destroyed. Yes, but I do I do worry with the social scoring aspect of the Chinese surveillance. Is that a worse wedding future than the NSA explicit in the American system is implicit. Right? Like if you're cancelled in the American system, you still can't get a job right? Like it. It would be silly works like a social credit system, right you're attacked and then some of the sea all the Google links and they can't hire you example of this, right? You know, there's this guy like in 2013. He got attacked on on Twitter Greg. You made some dumb comment about homeless people on Facebook, okay?
01:18:25So he lost his he was like founder of stars who lost his thing there. Now look a few years later. He got a job at Twitter as like a VR guy article on TechCrunch comes out and talks about controversial Greg. Menard Twitter same person for one comment on Facebook, which was stupid. I grant write this guy is is being fired over and over again. He's like letting you know in the shadows like, you know, I'm being purged and canceled over and over again worked at homeless shelters in all this stuff tried to make amends. There's simply no path back to him and Society right so that you're that like, this is something that you need to try not to not that the u.s. System is just deniable an implicit as opposed to expose of dieting is a single biggest difference.
01:19:11It doesn't feel the same though this it's like saving my children. I don't want that behavior to be off the threat of getting a smack.
01:19:21OK Google show me the Chinese system is like your when are you have a social School? Your Western behaviors are required. And if you took full of the sudden behavior is then you won't be able to access center facilities. You might be able to get flies. I feel that's a very I don't know. It's a very dangerous profession of oven wedding state, but at least in the US like it's just you and stupidity and that's like the free market outcomes and let's see what happens. If someone can flip a switch and apply from you from everything. My my line of argument is really that we're Beck touring in that direction of the US in the u.s. Is not better than where the Chinese are in a. Descriptive people to build a better system. Are you can't beat a platform from so that's kind of my thing that you might we might can test is one of the premises or that I put out which is the u.s. Is not better. And in fact, it's becoming worse. Let me explain why
01:20:21Have the no-fly list right which you can basically put onto without any kind of thing. We have a civil forfeiture right where the police can basically seize your assets without any kind of due process. And in fact amount of money Washington Post publish this little while ago amount of money seized by police vs. Civil forfeiture is now greater than the amount brought right? I think you're going to see an increasing number of folks being financially deplatformed again. This is like the tip of the edge or whatever but I saw a while back that a African American member of The Proud boys who I don't endorse but this guy like lost his Chase bank account, right that's happening that's coming to the US right? So now, you know, I'm just banned from social media starting to get your life is starting to get banned right and you know, you have two are being a going after for their political donations and so forth. So it's more chaotic and disorganized and decentralized but I do think a lot of those same negative things are coming to
01:21:21Freezable a year or two ago. There was an article in the New York Times reading not having the Chinese firewall on place. I can find the article said something like that then, you know there wouldn't be all these internet trolls and Trump would be elected and so on and so they were sure paying for that right? Yeah, but it's rats and they take those steps to pools or thier tarianism. Absolutely but the difference with China's we going to the audible levels of democracy that country has you have free education camps be taken away from their parents for being off a minority groups, you know that those types of people have controllers off systems to social School you how far do they push things right and say all the u.s. Is Guantanamo Bay and it has Abu ghraib right? It has, you know, the children in camps in your near the border and then so it's basically arguing that I think May.
01:22:21States are actually going to Vector in the direction of speech depression and so on. I think China has done it in an Xbox that way and end the US does an implicit in deniable and it's going to Vector far worse. I think over the twenties and that if we want a better system, we can't just assume of the u.s. Is better. I think it's going to get far worse. It's already vectoring that we have to build a better system with purple. That's what I'm trying to get what you give
01:22:53Okay, how was that pretty far out there? Right so we took a long time to get the laundry on the show, but it was well worth the wait. This is definitely one of my favorite probably even my favorite shows I recorded it was absolutely fascinating love all the stuff we going to take away from this into you you have been launched. She is one of those people he was just on a different wavelength and when he starts a week and it's just hard not to pay attention, especially when he's talking to these weird walls of like virtual reality ARA what that might mean for the future of immigration History Museum research. I have no idea how someone like him consumes everything so much knowledge.
01:23:34And you know what? I'm prep. I was reading about Marc Andreessen where you discard know the password but more ideas and anyone else who produces more ideas per minute than anyone else not a grave. It was so much recovered and is coming to see if you acted have a bunch of questions about Bitcoin in coinbase. I'd like to read even get to Halls cuz I was in the store the entry in the first possibility was coming out later in the week. Make sure you keep an eye out for we do in that in to get into Endo calm being acquired by coinbase maximalism the small contracts and Balaji 1201 Old Queens to reach out to meet. My email address is hello. I bought Bitcoin theatres.com. Also a big thank you to everyone who supposed to Show Low City reviews to the sponsors to those who subscribe by lightning that what to do in that free voucher, whatever you do. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. If you do what I was supposed to show its oldest it up on my website just head over to walk Bitcoin did the conflict in the sports section and explain everything to you there.
01:24:34Have I mentioned on flying out to Taiwan today while saying that by the time you read this I'm going to be there, but I'm recording a bunch of it to you for the fine for just coming out which is super exciting Stone to help tell you about so you got to keep an eye out for that. But listen to give me questions do reach out to meet. My email address is hello or what Bitcoin did. Com.

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