On this final episode of the Vulture TV Podcast, host Gazelle Emami, TV Critic Matt Zoller-Seitz and Vulture Columnist Jen Chaney are joined by producer Jordan Bell to revisit some of the show's best moments. 
United States


00:00:05hello and welcome to the vulture TV podcast on your house was Eleanor me on this week show the last episode ever of the vulture TV. We're taking a little trip down memory lane I'm here with New York Magazine TV critic that solar sites who has food in his banana before you said my name and I can I judge for late it's a great way to it's a great way to close out a wonderful run on this podcast but hi
00:00:43and vulture TV columnist Jen Chaney how you doing I'm all right so I think some of you may not have heard but this is our final episode of the vulture TV podcast and we thought we'd have a little fun with our last episode by remembering some of our favorite moments on the podcast our favorite guess our favorite moments among ourselves excetera excetera so our producer Jordan Bell High Jordan Hey Joe from the past two years and approximately 130 episodes that we've done and like any good TV show I thought we'd start with the clip from the theme song episode their theme songs TV shows right now that are actively on the air that I'd that don't that I don't have in my mind is vividly as I do this
00:01:43theme to Angie
00:01:45he kept saying it for a little bit so let the time flow let the time go let the love flow let the rain shower let the Roses why our love is faithful Love is Blind yeah I kind of can't remember exactly what it is but it's a great song great song
00:02:16it's really cheesy in great 70s and 80s were really that the Golden Arrow theme songs because they're great ones but they also would like actually chart you know they would like radio hits and pop hits in a way that that doesn't really happen very often anymore my choice is a personal one and it is the theme from Sanford and Son by Quincy Jones is because I was just great be at my wedding our wedding party entrance to the theme from Sanford and Son
00:03:04and then my husband and I answered you the theme from what's Happening which is another really good rock and roll yeah so I'm 9 of them have words but bouncing base it even thinking about the very happy the image of them playing basketball in slow motion that helps immensely and it really goes with a bow wow I just love that your wedding music live TV theme songs the best song in the world you should be delighted to walk into that so so so my choice my first choice is a bit of a newer one which you know we tend to think as we're talking about theme songs is
00:04:03catchy songs that you can kind of often sing along to not necessarily always but my choice would have to be the theme song for transparent
00:04:18and she is just makes me cry everytime I hear it and it's so tender and somehow captures all these complicated feelings about family and just less than a minute and I just love it and other than that I think if I was looking at kind of more traditionally catchy theme songs I'd have to go with Three's Company and the classic chairs which should I first heard these as a kid I thought they were the most magical songs I've ever heard
00:04:48there's something about the songs from that era that that can't be match
00:04:56taking a break
00:04:59I feel super emotional now it's also that it's early in the morning and I'm always more emotional in the morning and listen to music kind of you know Kohl's on the heartstrings a bit especially since several of those selections are specifically designed to be nostalgic and push those buttons so I know I was like oh this clip this clip is very long and very Dynamic I yeah so that the next one we have here where is we're going to take it to the conversations that Jen and gazelle had with Phoebe waller-bridge I wanted to ask about another saying that's a little bit lighter and I'll ask mrs. delicately as I can see Obama masturbation scene
00:05:51tell me a little bit about like were you considering other world leaders are other celebrities how did it come down to President Obama speaks happy thanks a lot Rachel it's a bicycle rack in short
00:06:08I think in the pay it came out to sleep I really try it's like the opening of the play work done but she keeps thinking that she wants to look up one was a lot of fun watching in the play when we have time to discuss that starts off with her really want to it. His house is that cabinet just want to work cuz she's born in 2014 and then going to watch a movie and NC-17 again. Maybe I should I watch the news and boring it's going to be informed about the person said they stopped me and then if I think she kick some is it, and that just sent arousal through the roof so she just
00:07:08that conversation so much she was she was one of the most like just easy people to talk to I felt and I think like before the show the three of us even talked about taking a road trip across America together we did I still yeah but I don't know if you know how much we actually talked about that that show on this podcast other than that interview episode so for those of you who haven't seen it highly recommend flea bag 6 episode British series all available on Amazon it's really good and she's terrific in it yeah and she has so she's the star and the Creator so this one involves a little bit of singing
00:08:07well I think they might be everyone know so before the show even began HBO's The Young Pope which premiered Sunday night night meme many of which involve people inserting young Pope in Two lyrics to the song one of my favorites was vultures on Jackson mchenry's version which goes if I'm a young told get out of my mind I think that was the best one I like merry Christmas as well. We don't care about the young Pope I don't like I just know I didn't haven't come up with one arm, I'm caught out of mine is based on my insistence I'm calling the show hot tub
00:09:07I just want to say thanks a lot for doing that because now I I I keep calling it that well. Keep going
00:09:17I have actually asked people to take what's good on TV it's like have you seen the hot Pope I mean I mean
00:09:25how do I sign in to Apple Apple baby this evening so I think all of this may have confused people about what the show is actually about
00:09:40I'm sure the I'm sure the I'm sure the loving ass shot of Jude Law in the Pilot in the further confuse Mexico knowing too much about it going into it about who this Pope is but managed and do you want to take a stab at explaining you know the basics the basic premise he's a young Pope in the Vatican he's an American Pope switches I don't believe that ever happened and in the entire history of the Catholic church is from New York right isn't it from Brooklyn eazy's like Pope you know he's he's hot
00:10:30it's true there's no tonight subjectively true it is it's good to have a record of week after week me and they're fighting for my dignity it's been preserved it's an archive it's an archive of sorts of hot focusness singing Uptown Funk we got all of you in there singing each unexpected yeah I know is impressive so continuing on that seem so you know love ya loves fit sort of Television crushes this is a clip of their teachers are beloved Alex Young and he's explaining how
00:11:29she has a problematic crush on one of the characters in Phoebe waller-bridge is crashing my problematic crashes Shelly won't Shelley Long on Cheers that's a bad spot because oh my God like she turned Sam's world upside down truck it and threw it against the wall and he did the same with her and also she was a complete you know raging narcissist and like human Steamroller and I found
00:12:06conversational but then nothing
00:12:13might be my first movie Crush was Rosalind Russell and Katharine Hepburn in the screwball comedies with so used to show on channel 13 so maybe I have a type. I'm trying to think I don't got to thank problematic it's like I feel like an herb like a very representative problematic crush on the internet for like a lot of people have problems with his political representation in the kind of person who represents but they still like kind of want to bang him
00:12:44sorry am I bringing this to sort of know know you're bringing you bringing the real that's what that's what happening
00:12:54hard problem guys like I think fits could be a problem at a crush if one how might I get V I actually got it and that's a problem on TV shows like when TV shows have an irresistible attraction like one of these like I like Diane Chambers is that kind of character to you have to cast exactly the right person because of people watch the show and they second-guess and they're just like I don't believe that this other character would beat would be like drawn to this problematic person like a moth to the flame right then the show is in serious trouble right now Don Draper
00:13:44LOL look at the look at the guy you know like I think it's that simple I've had so many people tell me in like discussions of Don Draper it's like if he didn't look like Jon Hamm there's no way that they would ride with him so true in life Attractive people get away with a lie
00:14:04it's for a roll I kind of have one but it's kind of embarrassing moment when I started when I started getting into the voice that I had a little crush on Blake Shelton country dad
00:14:25YouTube then I was like oh wait I read his Twitter feed look at this country dad country
00:14:54Universe sexual Town Hot and Now crushes and I didn't realize we talked about so much so many sexual things on the show true well you know I'm thinking maybe we could go for a little bit more of an Earnest turn here oh yes of course because that's what that's what the listeners really want
00:15:23Segway some more appropriately than a conversation with Viola Davis and into black sitcoms but they also kind of make caricatures of the Stars I don't care what those shows meant to you at that point in your life when you were watching them they met everything because they were people who look like me who represented the world that I knew and that's what are does at its best or entertainment does at its best as it tries to include you in it and so I love that but one thing that made me know that I want to be an actor is I knew the difference between entertainment and real craft
00:16:09and I wanted to do the craft I knew the difference between for instance Esther Rolle and Jimmy JJ Walker or Isabel Sanford and Jimmy JJ Walker you know I knew the difference with Miss Tyson when she came on the did The Autobiography of Miss Jane Pittman I knew the difference and there is a difference and you all know what I'm saying that we weren't just chuckling drive and no just people who had Swagger they were actors who dare to be different than craft the performance of real palpable human being something that was different about it that made me Lena and wake up and I all Davis so that was I've done a lot of interviews in the 25 plus years that I've been doing this for a living and she was one of the most intense and I don't mean like in a you know negative way I mean just like being in the room with her
00:17:04there's something there's like an energy that radiates off of her this purposeful energy that you can feel the second shander's the room she really does she's just very like she's just very eloquent and I think I remember that day we went to the hotel to interview her cuz it was a junkie and we were waiting for like 3 hours and we're like I think we debated leaving at one point cuz we had other things to do but we stuck it out and by the time we left the room we were like thank God we stuck it out because that was like one of the best interviews all of it I think in fact something similar like that happened to me several times during the course of this podcast because it was always a junket type situation when they was another one and I think that was one of the best interviews I've I've I've done about the craft directing one of the reasons
00:18:04but turned out so well is it unbeknownst to me people don't usually ask her about what she actually does for a living and then that was that was one of the things that she responded to was that she said you know what I'm paraphrasing but I'm perfectly happy to be talked to talk about being a pioneering African-American filmmaker pioneering woman filmmaker or talk about the political issues involved but ultimately I guess she just wanted somebody to ask her what she does like what she actually does and that's why there was a moment when you were interviewing her where she actually paused and was like wait a second my work is this clip I'm about to play is from one of the loveliest people that we got to meet Rita Moreno when she came to the vulture or I mean to people were two characters were made for each other it's Rita Moreno and Olivia I love doing her and I love her unreasonable
00:19:04because she just she's so convinced she's right it's ridiculous was going to say is when I was talking to them on the phone and actually before they was a even the script I said I'd like her to be sexual because you don't see that once people turn into certain age that sort of it gets completely ignored by writers and it's a shame and I've always been a very sexual person doesn't mean that I'm going around in a feeling my breasts pressing myself against men so but I'm a sexual being and that I'm 85 and I'm still a sexual being where is sensual being and that appeal to them they like that and of course the audience laughs Fat Surprise
00:20:04is one of the best interviews we had on this show just from start to finish she's exactly what you would expect in the best way yeah yeah yeah and she she had that she also you know I mean it's kind of ridiculous to keep saying this because there's a reason why these people famous very very very charismatic funny person like you there's a reason why she's been a star for over 50 years the Netflix series one day at a time and that's another one that ranks up there for all of us I think that's a very good show. Stow occurred after we I think it's finished recording which is unless you were still rolling
00:20:59oh my God no it was well and she she had been with Marlon Brando for a number of years and I said you know I do a Marlon Brando impression she said let's hear it going to said well read her and she said okay stop
00:21:23yeah but I'm actually have I have that clip that Jen suggested of Pamela advon when she be actually talk to Pamela at the day before the election I remember that was like really yeah yeah I know she was telling us and she was hilarious she was telling us that she was trying to convince her like cab driver to vote for Hillary and he's like what I thought she was going to jail and he's she's like no no just fell for the girl don't forget so here's Pamela index in the industry like in the episode 6 years building a pilot with a guy who is like my pilot so it's harder for me kind of a thing how much how much is this kind of this part of the show called from your own experience
00:22:16all of it pretty much everything you know I tits
00:22:26you know I remember Grant heslov and George Clooney did a show called unscripted and with Steven Soderbergh for HBO and so they brought I remember it was me and Laura San Giacomo and one other lady actress and they sat us in a room and they said we need you guys to tell us about your experience with being female in the business and men being disgusting you know and so we basically like talked about it and it's shocking you know and this was 18 years ago so we had gone through the 80s and the 90s of that so it never kind of ends and everybody's got those stories you know just people being inappropriate you know talking right into your mouth grabbing the side of your tit you know you know what's making you you know read a certain scene
00:23:26do a certain gross thing this was really said to me in real life somebody that I was working with said you're my kind of woman slap a pair of tits on you you're just my type so you know we put in the show ya Pamela Pamela was a trip she was great that show I feel like kind of got the buried a little because it came out around when Atlanta did it was actually dated debuted the same thing at the same time around the same time and Jen wrote a lot of amazing things about the show for vulture
00:24:11I loved better things and look forward to coming back and I just as you can tell from that clip like Pamela Adlon is she hasn't heard anything back she's very very honest and I think that comes through in the show as well things I loved about that show was it captured you know I'm a single parent myself and I capture that feeling that you have I guess all parents probably feel this at some time where are you love your kids you would die for your kids but they're also times when you just want to strangle you know like like she on Cork's this kind of Primal resentment that you have when your in a urine adult and it's like I thought when I was adult I was going to be able to do whatever I wanted and now I'm living for other people. It's like part of its part of the bargain and you accept it but like I've rarely seen it portrayed so honestly the amount of stuff that comes along with it there's a scene in the first episode where she is shopping with with them I think just one of her daughters and she just start screaming where is the graph paper
00:25:11I've had that moment I just do. I really related to that I'm so this next clip is from a lovely guess we've had on the show a couple times crazy ex-girlfriends Rachel Bloom and we want to make sure we highlighted a conversation with Rachel because she's been a big part of the show me about the show going in some different directions but one of the things I also like is that you've already started doing reprises of songs from the first season like I bring you back sexy getting ready song for example and a different contacts is that something yeah see yourself doing with with other things you didn't the first season as the season continues that is a giant yes and I'm very excited to talk to you guys when the season is done but yes I love I love her Praises because you know the show to me and end to lean into the writers room is a giant Musical and so bringing
00:26:11musical motifs ringback or freezes it's a way to somatic Lee tie it all together and I I forget whose exact idea the trend is getting ready song was but oh my god when I heard that idea it's so it said because what that is is it seems It's of course like Trent tries just as hard as Rebecca to force himself into situations like what a great way to bring back that song yeah Rachel Rachel Bloom has been on the show I think 3 times and I think we can say that at this point and the first time I wasn't there that was you and Margaret Matt and then we had our on a live edition of the vulture TV podcast at vulture Festival last year and then we had her on again last fall with all three of us
00:27:00you know one of the things that makes me sad about ending podcast is not having Rachel Bloom on anymore she is great she's a once once in a once-in-a-generation talent she really has and it's great that she
00:27:18she carved out a role that uses all of her different talents and she had to create it herself because nobody else is going to create it for her so kind of DuckTales nicely with that Pamela Adlon clip that we just heard of the show
00:27:36Damon Lindelof is another friend of the podcast and Eve had Damon on the show a couple times but each time we've had him on the show he was on the show for a lot of minutes and those were great conversations was I just imagining it or does he have more scenes with his clothes off this season
00:28:00I can't really speak to what you imagine if it's a look when you're when you're dealing with that a physique like like his I feel like it's actually down you know that Intel thing to Justin's for Frampton I have the clothes off about you know stuff you took for my very very unusual but it was a really like meat and I can I can only imagine even reading it felt very well there was more stuff that I cut because it was just too much for you might not know what we're talking about one of the episodes of The Leftovers in its final season was some what inspired by Matt's life and some
00:28:58some of the things he had written on his blog that Damon Lindelof bad it had read the same time I'm not writing it solely for you but I had it in the back of my head and then I think you wrote a piece about Jen your wife in like the spring April or May of last of 16 it was the 10th anniversary of her death actually April 27th of last year okay and you and I have never had a conversation about about your loss so no not until this very nice actually. I want to say my deepest condolences and I you know has as someone who has been you know he credibly a happily married with the woman that I'm going to spend the rest of my life with I can't even put into words what what that how devastating that lost would be in the fact that you've put it you put a new you write about her you know and particularly that piece which I think May
00:29:58will be the first time that I've learned that you had suffered that lost yeah and it was it was interesting because I was watching the episodes of the first few episodes from season 3 and I was thinking boy these are really resonating with me in an unusually personal way and then I got an email from him saying oh by the way the fifth episode is is basically dedicated to you which is something it's never happened to me before I mean like a little tiny version 2 that have happened where people have said hey something you wrote inspired me to do this other thing but I've never had somebody basically take inspiration from autobiographical writing and turn it into fiction so that was something new
00:30:39then that episode was called it's a Matt Matt Matt world it was a character on the show named Matt so it's not that much of a stretch but and you know the character was named Matt in the novel sound like and then do that for me or anything but still it's weird or wierd
00:30:57I also I feel like that's makes it something about Damon Lindelof which is he's always struck me as somebody who reads I know a lot of people read criticism in and kind of keep up with that buddy I feel like he reads it in a very close and personal way that feels different to me like I could imagine if he wasn't doing what he's doing I feel like he would be doing what we do which is writing television criticism never the case may be in the anal I can just like on the leftovers maybe there's an alternate universe where he did that
00:31:28every Captain. Captain this next clip is from the interview we did at the New York Magazine office with the cast of search party and it kind of was
00:31:45this year became inevitably tied to politics and gazelle a post to Alia shawkat about the election and it's funny and I just was this was right after the elections of a lot of art interviews around that time kind of we couldn't help but go there cuz everyone was like red like having a v l series supposed to remember when it happened he was always a very disturbing moment and I was kind of like how my going to go talk about it show oh my gosh I'm so proud of the show but I was like how am I going to just like pontificate like the funniest thing happened the other day like it's just since you know you all of a sudden when you're hit with the reality of your own life and your priorities and start to go into question which is only that's healthy for everybody is to realize what are real priorities are and how we connect two things for me which I kind of talked about a little then was that
00:32:38and like the previous question about I commenting on this time I think there's such a a focus on curating yourself now
00:32:47that even if we're trying to show some kind of
00:32:52like that were not trying to have a tensioner that were like really try not to show the how cool we are even if we're like think we're making a joke about ourselves like no one's actually very humble you know if you like it's still a good photo of you it's still use I doing something really cool and you're like that other Pizza a whole pizza again everything's like this whole package ideal just perfect life even if you your life usually is never that perfect cuz I was like this nothing can be captured that way to photo or comment so I think with this energy that says Ho focus into this like inner side of ourselves that we kind of become obsessed with it and it takes you back from what's Happening to other people I mean like you know whatever to get into this has been going on for a long time
00:33:43shootings have been happening all the time you know what I mean all these things that were just kind of like fuck that sucks and then we just go back to our life this one might implicate us and like affect us and already has and it's so much more disturbing because we're actually tapping into my mom to bring it back to a search party TBS Eric is that feeling you get kind of numb when you're just like so detached from things outside of yourself and you were like why do we feel better when we're in nature why do we feel better when we're helping people it's like it's a natural human urge to want to do that not just to be you know building up this idea of ourselves cuz it feels fake and then you actually don't even enjoy your bliss life I'm like I'm so privileged and like a lot of us was so shocked and it made me like you know I can't feel guilty for ever but I was like I've been like going on like this is it like gravy baby you know what I mean I'm not appreciating my life and I'm like a lease thing I could do that that's the fastest appreciate yourself
00:34:43appreciate the love you have to be nice to the people around you and then slowly work from there cuz you can't otherwise if you don't like love yourself and I think a lot of this generation has a hard time accepting themselves cuz it never feels like enough wow I think I fell in love with her
00:35:05yeah that was me and Alex Johnson talking to Alia John early and John Reynolds the three of the stars of of search party and the yeah the show came right it came out right after the election it was right around Thanksgiving a lot of a lot of a lot of our colleagues what's told me that they would have put it on the top 10 list accepted arrived after that already filed how is you know this this like narcissistic culture we live in his kind of kind of made us tune out of everything that's going on around us and I think it did kind of
00:35:54incidentally tap into this feeling that people were feeling even more acutely after the election
00:36:02so yeah it's another another favorite I think of all of ours that show yeah definitely
00:36:10are we hearing that he's not in your head Matt there's something happening podcast application Mentor variety of location said we've had we've been that the victim of bad timing where there's some kind of sounds like they're they're drilling for their drilling for minerals for something CrossFit anything because Tough Mudder was like right there and they have a gym on that Texas that's really funny they're like it's feeling like blocks of cement or something
00:36:48just people being really fat or it unless there's a point where somebody saying something that the very very personal the damn and then you hear this
00:37:00so I actually wanted to play a clip of one of the Fate my favorite re is I ever edited of Matt and also like felt like a big moment for Matt in terms of his like Revelation about something with TV nowadays I have no idea what this is so a lot of writing about TV is about the characters the story The themes and of course you want to know about all of that because most television is literary it's linear it tells a story that goes from point A to point B to point C and then ultimately dizzy and then usually the whole thing kind of start over again at a and season 2 usually
00:37:46Sony watch TV of course you need to keep your eye on all of that and judge it this subplot isn't working that monologue was unnecessary that ending sucked what happened to the lieutenant they introduce Simba touch Fanfare and then they forgot all about him there is no Lieutenant I was speaking hypothetically but you know what I mean housekeeping
00:38:07dotting the I's and crossing the t's
00:38:11there's another way to watch TV though
00:38:22Miami Vice came on the air in 1984 and blew the doors off everyone's preconceptions of what television drama could do it was truly cinematic off and pretentiously so the music was Moody and Loud the actors shirts socks and sports Coats were off and color-coordinated to match the wallpaper or the sunset
00:38:45the scripts were often brilliant but sometimes terrible sometimes you had no idea what was going on and it didn't matter because this show wasn't literature it was painting it was music
00:39:08I called this kind of series a sound and light show and I don't mean that the Jordan Lee there are or there should be a lot of different ways to watch TV to experience TV viscerally is one of them as an experience as much as a story maybe more so
00:39:28what I watch a series from start to finish even if I don't like a lot of it it's because the look and sound of the show are so amazing I just want to feel the show the way you feel music Twin Peaks was like that when people talk about how great Twin Peaks was they don't mean that every single episode was great her that every moment was great in fact Twin Peaks was really only great in season 1 in individual scenes and episodes during the first half of season 2 in in the last 15 minutes of the finale when people call Twin Peaks great or when I call other shows that are powered by Sound and Music and image and color and texture great they mean the field of it was great the vibe of it was great
00:40:21big little lies was that kind of show for me region was that kind of show the girlfriend experience Hannibal even Boardwalk Empire
00:40:34I dislike a lot of Boardwalk Empire but I never missed an episode because I love being in that world the close the hats the flapper dresses The Godfather lighting the ashy waves of the Jersey Shore coming in I just love being inside somebody else's dream
00:40:54that's one of the reasons I love big little lies so much the way it moved
00:41:01the story flashing back and forth skipping around like a mind racing thoughts ricocheting around in a dreaming mind a lucid dream a waking dream the sounds of the ocean the waves crashing
00:41:18look on a woman's face as she thinks about what she's going to do next and on the soundtrack music joining with the images carrying the story forward in a gentle rising and falling motion microwave
00:41:40I love that what up what a whale produce are a tattoo may I say how much work it was so pretty so pretty you really felt the vibe Matt Matt was like I think I just have a few a few notes you can include a few songs if you want I think they would like it was funny because I forgot that I was supposed to record an aria so I just was yeah I just read it said her robe of course I actually a lot of lot of the are is I don't know about you all day if you know you're probably a lot more prepared than I was but there are many times where Jordan would go off and do some other work and I would sit here in the studio and just
00:42:22right stuff out in long hand on the back of you know a script or something like that but yeah this is one that was very dear to me and that's a hobby horse that I ride a lot probably to the irritation of many readers which is there's more to TV than the plot and characters in the theme and get them you know it's weird because I was recorded before I had seen any of the new Twin Peaks but definitely although I will say that as of this recording we're heading up on the midpoint of Twin Peaks and it's gotten a little more plot Centric a little bit don't you think a little I mean in the last episode which were not recording this two weeks before listeners will have heard so that's the last episode we haven't seen yet it will be episode 9
00:43:17yeah I would agree with that well. That's a discussion for another another day and another podcast the conversation we had at it was me and you Matt and it was Alex Jung and a colleague of ours who is recapping master of none for us Smiley Corral and this we had this conversation right after the first season of master of none came out because there were just a lot of conversations around diversity on TV going on at that point because master of none was like it was huge it it was a huge moment to have that kind of representation on TV and we had a really great conversation I think just about you know what represents representation on TV looks like you know and it was a it was a really great episode
00:44:17I really recommend you listen to it if you're interested in that topic but there was one moment towards the end where Matt shared a story about interviewing Chris Rock I was working with the Star-Ledger in New Jersey I was a television critic at the kid only been doing that job for about a year and I guess we could just let the clutch speak for itself when the Chris Rock show is on HBO his talk show there were several shows on the air at the same time I think they were at least three that had African American men at the center of them and I was assigned a story on whether or not there was a different perspective on humor that came from having a black person in charge of the shows
00:45:02and that's really a very nice way of putting it basically it was like wow isn't it unusual that we have 3 shows with black people in the in Creative control and in the lead in front of the camera it really wasn't a develop pitch beyond that and I think I must have known what a kind of mortifyingly backhandedly racist idea this was for story because I didn't tell any of the people who I was going to interview for the story what I was doing you know I just said I was interviewing them and Chris Rock so I got the interview Chris Rock at HBO headquarters Seattle office there and he was so excited to be interviewed
00:45:37find me for this this article I was doing and it eventually dawned on him that I was talking about him and relation to these other two shows I can't even remember what they were at the time but but he finally wants he pieced it together his face Phil
00:45:52and he said what is this article about and I told him what it was about and he said so let me get this straight you're grouping me with these two other guys because all three of us are black
00:46:06and I had I was not able to say anything to him except yes
00:46:10and he said what he said what the fuck kind of story is this and I said I said honestly I don't know I mean I don't know what the idea is I was hoping to make something good out of it and he said look I'm not going to tell you what kind of story to write and I'm not going to tell you how to do your job I'm just going to tell you that this is very depressing for me like as hard as I worked in as far as I've come to have reporter come here and loop me in with two other guys just because they're black and so am I we talked for a little while more I tried to salvage the interview I don't think I ever actually did a piece out of it but we talked about his favorite films and he was talking about the need to tell stories
00:46:50where the lead character was telling story that he could relate to that was written by somebody like a man the only way he felt he could do that was by writing and directing his own material and the example he gave was Woody Allen he was a hero to him and he said he said what he said there have been no great romantic comedies in the last 4 years with African-American leads I said sure they're having he said name one and I said Love Jones and he said what is Love Jones about and I said Love Jones is about to super smart good-looking characters who can't be together because they both have too much pride or something like that and he said that's not a story you said now what's the story in Annie Hall and I said it's a it's a to Smart creative people get together he's a slightly older than her he serves as his mentor as well as her lover but it a certain point she surpasses him and has nothing more to learn from them and they can't be together anymore and he said no that's a story and of course years later he made Take 5
00:47:46which kind of feels like that little bit but I'll never forget going out to the walking out of the HBO headquarters with him and he got into a car he was leaving to go home and and I said well have a nice night and he was hanging his head and he said you said I'm so fucking depressed right now and he got in his car and shut the door Chris Rock Chris Rock if you're listening to this I was an idiot and I'm sorry it I just I thought that was such like an honest moment I saw you know HBO headquarters for Chris Rock had an office and to this day when I walked by that particular you know entrance is not the main entrance at the side entrance when I walk by it I cringe thinking about that about God here's where I made a complete idiot of myself Chris Rock butter
00:48:35but live and learn I would say I would like to acknowledge Jen's astonishing scholarship of Gilmore Girls I mean in YouTube gazelle but like I mean really I mean you really you really friends you're just dropping the knowledge as they said in the 80s it's been great it's been great and and you know it's like that's your dad is to you and I think Dad would is to me yes make your girls like I didn't even watch Gilmore Girls on it was actually on the air I caught up with it completely after or he was going to shit out of me that was a cram session I was the Gilmore Girls fan who who was deeply disappointed by the reboot will see
00:49:31what happens I guess you seem really sad I got to say you seem sad I'm sad about it I don't know I wanted to like it and now that I don't like it I want people hate it with me that's the American dream
00:49:51yeah that's exactly captures how I said that kind of captures a lot of a lot of what we do just generally I would say
00:50:08I mean honestly I feel so lucky to have been able to meet with you with both of you once a week and just you know talk about television and it's it's sitting in this room right now it feels like such a nice little bubble even even though Jen is thousands of miles away and we're looking at her on the screen it feels like she's country with us even though Jen's on the moon on a moon base on the moon larger seats
00:50:48it's the big twist guys in Australia all alone
00:50:57no I what makes me what makes it so Bittersweet is just you know having
00:51:05just not having this time with with the both of you honestly and I mean I was sad already
00:51:15and I don't know it's great to it's just great to talk to people it's just great to talk to people and just have a real conversation and
00:51:32one of the things I like the most about this show and then I was proud of stove was from the very beginning we we tried the covers why the SWAT the television as we could come and get us scripted television we didn't get into like news or sports or anything like that but and the fact that we had multiple hosts meant that you didn't get locked into one mode for very long you know and for the beginning we had you know we started out with our colleague Margaret Lyons he's now at the times and I enjoyed the bantering with Margaret as well as particularly because she and I didn't see eye-to-eye on on everything and boy did she press the attack when we differed it was great it was great it reminded me of like debate in high school it was terrific and and then you know a lot of the roster regular gas at we've had over
00:52:23over the years plural you know people like Alex of course he was just at the life of person I don't know him much better as a result of doing the show with him should I was on podcast what a prince but man he has good Lord and and you know people like a Jesse David Fox and Joe Italian would come in and Joe like who has a voice like made for FM radio in the 1970s it's ridiculous he just sounds great I could listen to that guy like read the back of a cereal box you know and just go yeah and he has had such a wealth of knowledge that's on television it's incredible yeah it's great and it's also nice to end this is just a personal thing with me but that it was a general podcast it was a general television podcast and increasingly the trend in the industry has been to focus exclusively on a very particular thing like it's some cases it's one show
00:53:24or just one kind of show or it's like it's all Game of Thrones it's all Walking Dead you know there's podcast to go to the west wing and so on and those are great but
00:53:33you know if you love that one show you know this is where I go to get my fix but I like the kind of news magazine sort of format where there's a lot of different kinds of things and maybe you don't watch this particular show but you might be inspired to watch a result of hearing people discuss it or avoid it based on your end people discuss if they don't like it you know but yeah
00:53:57yeah we could be a little vicious sometimes but in general yeah I mean I and I've learned so much from just listening to both of you as well which is been great because I think what you were saying that is
00:54:11because because we there are three host on the show often times we do, things with different perspectives which in a conversation allows you to see things a little differently than you might know when you're on Twitter or wherever else yeah that's true
00:54:29yeah well as I said before I'm I'm still convinced that I somehow cause the cancellation of the podcast since I joined vulture but you do know you've been on for exactly half of its run so but yeah it has been nice as guess cuz I'll said I've I've learned a lot from both of you guys it has been a little bit weird for me just because you know I'm not usually in the same room as you are so I'm kind of like a a floating head and there's documentation of myself as a floating head on Twitter when we've had pictures of us pictures cuz like I said earlier I are holding up like a laptop or an iPad or something and that's it's like you're it's like you're one of the two heads on Futurama
00:55:15or I I prefer to think of myself as Max Headroom but you know how it works but yeah I mean I think and also I don't know if you guys feel this way but doing what we do you get kind of locked into your own head and especially for me because I work for the most part from home and am isolated throughout the day and so whenever we do the podcast was really an opportunity to engage and even if I wasn't sitting you know right next to you guys it was it was it was just a great exercise for me on a personal level and hopefully one that was edifying for the for the listeners to but yeah I'm definitely going to miss doing this and we hope we didn't piss you off too much listeners with our opinions if we did it's too late and can we just say a huge thanks to our producer Jordan Bell who's made it sound good every week
00:56:15you're welcome it's my pleasure and to our previous producers Sam ding men Henry milawski lorimier who started this out yeah it's it's been a great run and
00:56:31you know we hope to
00:56:36maybe we'll
00:56:38I don't know maybe we'll have a r e Union you know 10 years from now that will disappoint everyone's that will be pregnant we won't know who the father was yeah well that's it for the vulture tell the note to go out on
00:57:10what should this week be different than any other though ultimately we should all we should all just do our thing just do our thing I'm popping and locking right now but you just can't see it.
00:57:25Clean up this last section of the Dead Sea
00:57:29parking for the vulture TV podcast for one last time I'm bozella Mommy and you can find me on Twitter at cuz alimony if you can find me on Twitter at Cheney J listeners we love you and thank you so much for listening thank you thank you

Transcribed by algorithms. Report Errata
Disclaimer: The podcast and artwork embedded on this page are from New York Magazine / Panoply, which is the property of its owner and not affiliated with or endorsed by Listen Notes, Inc.


Thank you for helping to keep the podcast database up to date.