Full Transcript for Boxing with Chris Mannix - Canelo is back

agreed on everything that Tim Zu said, and he felt he was less harsh on Charlo than I thought he was going to be, honestly, because they have this rivalry. But he said the same thing. He was just surprised that we didn't get the a level Charlo that we've gotten in most of his fights and the kind of you know, tenacious, ferocious guy that we usually see. 00:05:58 Speaker 2: Yeah, Charlo wants credit for going the distance. He doesn't get it in my book. He wants credit for not getting knocked out. He doesn't get it in my book. If you take on a challenge like this, I don't care if you move up one weight class, two weight classes, three weight classes, you have an obligation to try to win. Like people are paying money to see you try to win. People are buying spending eighty five bucks on pay per view to see you try to win. 00:06:19 Speaker 3: He didn't do that. And I agree with you. 00:06:22 Speaker 2: When his career is over, you know, if it ends, if it's crended tomorrow, this would be the fight he's remembered for for going up two weight classes and quote challenging Canelo Alvarez but not really challenging him. I'm not surprised that Canelo dominated. I'll say that, Keith, because I've been saying that for since that fight was made. I'd never believe Jamel Charlo could compete with Canelo because, and I say this about every Canelo opponent, to be competitive or to beat Canelo Alvarez, you have to throw with him. 00:06:50 Speaker 3: You have to be willing to let the right hand go. 00:06:52 Speaker 2: And since like twenty eighteen, when Canelo became this sort of middleweight and above destroyer, only. 00:06:59 Speaker 3: Two fighters have done that. 00:07:00 Speaker 2: Gannati Gilofkin has done it and Dimitri Beevil has done it. Both those guys have been willing to throw punches with Canelo. They have not been fearful of the artillery that was coming back. But every opponent other than that that I've seen Canelo go up against, whether it's Callum Smith, Billy Joe Saunders, had a different game plan, but eventually Billy Joe kind of succumbed to it, and now Jamel Charlo, they just, you know, they were trying to Caleb plant I put on that list as well. 00:07:26 Speaker 3: They were just trying to jab. 00:07:27 Speaker 2: And you know, move and and try to out box him from the outside. 00:07:31 Speaker 3: You can't do that. 00:07:32 Speaker 2: You can't beat Canelo Alvarez unless you're willing to throw something big back against him. 00:07:37 Speaker 3: And you know, Jamel Charlo was. 00:07:40 Speaker 2: Kind of an oversized example of that. You know, just the way he fought was just I thought, just awful, just just a really weak performance from Jamel. But it kind of a continuation of guys that, you know, show up believing they have a game plan to face and beat Canelo Alvarez, but they just they just don't. And that kind of brings me to my next question, Keith, of who does at this point, you know, I think we'd all agree David Benavidez,

at least on paper, is the most competitive option for Canelo Alvarez. I don't know if he's a realistic option for May of twenty twenty four. Terrence Crawford's out there saying he wants a piece of Canelo. I love Terrence Crawford. I think it's a marketable fight, but you're not gonna convince me Terrence Crawford's gonna stand in the pocket and trade with Canelo Alvarez. I just don't believe it, Jamal Charlow, don't get me started. I don't There's no market for a Jamal Charlo Canelo Alvarez fight less. So after watching Jamel, the smaller brother and the more active brother, uh, you know, lose to Canelo, what is realistic right now for Canelo Alvarez is we looked to the second fight of this PBC deal. 00:08:48 Speaker 4: Chris. The last time we spoke about this on the podcast, I remember telling you that the people who wanted to see him fight Terrence Crawford next better hope that the Jamel Charlo fight is at least competitive, because then how do you sell a fight against an even smaller opponent in his next fight? And here we are. I'm not saying Terrence Crawford won't go in there to win. He's certainly based on everything that I know about Terrence Crawford. Yet I also thought similar things about Jermeal Charlow. I would think Terrence Crawford are going there with a real, you know, real attempt to win the fight. I mean, he's got a lot of pride. He's a very talented guy. He's one of the best pound for pound fighters in the world coming off in an incredibly dominant career defining win. But like you said earlier, Chris, when you get in there and you fight Canelo and he starts touching you in the beginning of the fight, people tend to realize, well, this is going to be harder than I thought. Canelo said that throughout fight week last week, he said, watch when the fight starts, and then you'll see jermal Charlow realize that he's in there with a guy that he hasn't the type of guy that he hasn't been in the ring with before, and that obviously played out. The same thing could be true of Crawford. Now. It is a marketable fight, Chris, and I think the public reaction to it, to me, has been somewhat surprised because it's been relatively positive. People want to see this fight. I can't stress enough this guy would have to move up twenty one pounds to fight Canelo, because Canelo has repeatedly said I am not doing this at a catchweight. It's not going to be at one sixty four, one sixty two something where you might then think that Terrence Crawford has more of a chance to win. I really don't see as great as Terence Crawford is, and as much as I commend him for wanting this challenge, I don't see this as a fight that he can win. So, you know, Saquor Stevenson said the other day when we had an open workout with him in Las Vegas, and he was you know, he told a couple of really good stories about, you know, underestimating Terrence or you know, at your own peril, underestimate Terrence Crawford. He said he saw him spar a heavyweight one time and kind of made the heavyweight take a knee. And I'm not saying those things didn't happen. I'm just saying that when you get in there with ten ounce gloves and no headgear against a guy who can crack the way that Canelo can and a guy who now apparently is the one hundred percent version of him that we hadn't seen in a couple of years, really it's a very tall order. Although they're the same height, it's a very tall order for Terrence Crawford. But I do think, unfortunately that as much as I don't think that this fight will be competitive in the way that some people might believe it will be, I do think that's going to be the next fight for Canelo Alvarez because I do not think assuming David Benavitez beats Demetrius andre and that's not an easy fight for Benavitez, but I don't get excited. I do think. I do think that David Benavidez will win and then would obviously be in position to fight Canelo in what would be a massive event on Sinco de Mayo weekend. Canelo already said that he's coming back May fourth of next year. It would be an enormous event, but that would be the second of his three fight deal, and it's my understanding that the Benavitez fight, assuming Canelo keeps winning, would be the third fight of his deal with PBC. Again, assuming that David Benavitez keeps winning, and then Benavitez is kind of in a weird position because let's say he beats Demetris Andreid on November twenty fifth, does he then want to wait almost nine months or ten I guess it would be ten months, yeah, ten months before he would fight Canelo. And that's again assuming that Canelo continues to win. You know a lot of factors, a lot of things could go wrong and screw that up. We've seen that many times. But I do think at this point, I'm not sure that Crawford fights Spence again because if he demands as he has done so far, if he demands that their fight is at one hundred and forty seven pounds, that rematch probably won't happen because Aero Spence cannot safely or smartly make one hundred and forty seven pounds because it just takes too much out of him, and I don't think he wants to do that again. If they thought at one hundred and sixty pounds, I think Terrence Crawford wins decisively, that doesn't really seem to matter. But if that rematch is not at one hundred and fifty four pounds, it might just go away, and then Crawford would be free to fight Canelo next, And that very well could be the way that it plays out. 00:13:05 Speaker 2: Let me tell you some Keith, you were skeptical of my opinion that Crawford or sorry that Charlot against Canelo was going to be completely uncompetitive. I didn't believe that. I said it many times over and over. I want you to believe me when I say that Demitrius Andreid beats David Benavidez. If David Benavidez his fight sounds like it's a done deal. If David Benavidez fights Demetrius Andrew one hundred and sixty. 00:13:31 Speaker 3: Eight pounds, he is going to lose. He is going to lose that fight. 00:13:34 Speaker 2: He's gonna

have to rematch Demetrius Andreid, and we are no longer talking about Benavidez against Canelo. Andreid is going to be the one that is talked about fighting Canelo in May of twenty twenty four, a fight that Andreid has been chasing for the better part of the last five years. He's gonna get it because he's going. 00:13:52 Speaker 3: To beat David Benavidez. Calling my shot right now. 00:13:55 Speaker 2: October third, as we record this Andreid over Benavidez unanimous decision victory. 00:14:02 Speaker 4: Well, I hope Adam keeps this one in the archives. Look, Demetrius Andred is not an easy guy to fight, of course, you know. And Demetrius is an elite level from a skill perspective, is an elite level fighter. Benavidez is a big, strong kid. I would expect him to win the fight. It's not going to be easy, but I do think he'll win the fight. And if Andreid wins, yeah, he would then be in line to fight Canelo, and Denello would have no reason, of course than not to fight him because he beat the guy that everyone wanted to see him fight. It's bad for business. And this is no knock on Demetrius. Andre Very a good dude and you know, deserves his big fight and all that kind of stuff. But it's bad for business if he beats Benavidez because Benavitez, Canelo or Canelo Benavidez is the fight that everyone would want to see in that division with the guy who is still and will continue to be the biggest star in American boxing. So interesting fight on November twenty fifth, for sure. You know, Boogoo can he's a talented guy, man, but he's you know, a little he's on the back end of his career. He's a little older. Now, say, Benavidez is more of a natural sixty eight pounder than him, So I don't expect it to be easy for Benavitez, but if he wins, he's got a lot of incentive to win the fight because there's a big bag of money awaiting him if he does fight Canelo, assuming that's where he would go after that, But I don't know, Chris, Look, we'll bet some dinner from that. 00:15:28 Speaker 2: I guess, big, big mistake, David, big mistake. You and Samson Lukawitz will make a huge mistake booking this fight with so much on the line. 00:15:36 Speaker 3: You should have taken any other fight. 00:15:37 Speaker 2: But Demetrius Andreid, Demetris Android, Yes he has been a long time won sixty, but you know this kief, he's a huge one sixty he's gonna be I don't think the size disparity is gonna be that big between David Benavitez Demetrius Android at their way and on fighting, I don't think it's going to be that big. 00:15:51 Speaker 3: I think Andreid's a big dude. 00:15:53 Speaker 4: And yeah, and they're basically the same height. I mean, Benavitez seems taller than I think. He's really only six to one, but he looks big than that. They're around the same height. I mean, andrew it might be a tench smaller than him, but they're around the same height and Demetrius has filled out well. An interesting fight. Like I said, Chris, I mean, it's not a gimme for in no way,

shape or form for David Benavitez. So I look forward to that fight on November twenty fifth. But if I just think he's fighting whatever happens November twenty fifth, I think he's fighting Crawford. Even if Benavidez wins, as I expect him to win. I do think there's a lot of momentum for this Canelo Crawford fight. As much as I don't really think it won't be it won't be Canelo Charlo because I really think that Crawford will come to win the fight. I really can't, Chris. I know I've said this already, but it's really just perplexing to me. On the Tuesday after the fight happened that Charlo performed the way that he did, because that's just not the way he's built. I don't get what happened there, and he really you know, he got out jabbed in this fight by Canelo, and his jab is one of his best weapons, and you know he flicked it out there on all but Canelo out even out jammed him, went to his body, you know, stalked him the entire fight, put him on his back foot. There was just no point where I saw over the course of twelve rounds the Jamel Charlow that I've seen for the better part of the last you know, nine years or whatever long it's been eight nine years. I just didn't see that guy even in the I wanted to bring this up Christ even in the postfight press conference when he lost to Tony Harrison. Again it was a close fight that could have gone either way. Jamel Charlo cried in that press conference because it meant so much to him that he lost his WBC title, and it got to him so much that he suffered his first professional defeat. He cried during the press conference. During the postfight press conference on Saturday, he was laughing and joking around, and look, I'm not going to say I didn't enjoy seeing a different side of Jamel Charlo. And you know, he was easier to deal with and all that stuff. But the guy who was edgy and would tell you to f off if you asked him how he was doing that. We needed that guy to fight Canelo Alvarez, and that guy was nowhere to be found for the last two plus months. It was bizarre. 00:18:10 Speaker 2: Yeah, it was crazy, and it's something that's going to stick with him. I don't know what he does next. He'll go back to WIT fifty four. 00:18:16 Speaker 4: But I mean, Chris, that's the other thing I think that was okay here. I mean I think if you're him and you go into this fight moving up two way classes, taking a risk, of course, but if you also have He feels the WBO screwed him by stripping him of the title as soon as he walked into the ring, but he did owe this fight to Tim Zoo. 00:18:35 Speaker 5: He did. 00:18:35 Speaker 4: He took the money and the opportunity, which no one could blame him for doing, but there were some consequences for it. So now he doesn't have the WBO title, but he still has the IBFWBA and WBC titles. He still says he comfortably makes one hundred and fifty four pounds. So for him, if you had this option, you kind of had nothing literally nothing to lose here because you're expected to lose this fight. Yet if you lose, you can just go back down and at least three of your titles, and with tim Zoo fighting Brian Mendoza in a couple of weeks, he would then just fight the winner to again become the undisputed one hundred and fifty four pounds champion. That's a great alternative, a great option to have, a great thing to have in your back pocket, knowing that if you lose this fight, Okay, I still go back down to my real weight class and I'm viewed as the undisputed champion. And if tim Zuo wins, why couldn't they convince rmoult Charlo to go to Australia to fight him. Why not? I mean that's where it would make the most money. And he said in the press conference, he said, look, he might not be able to get up for the winner of Mendoza tim Zo because it's not as big a fight as Canelo. He didn't really seem to get up for the Canal fight. 00:19:42 Speaker 6: But but it would make him a lot of money if he If tim Zoo beats Brian Mendoza, and that doesn't seem like it's going to be an easy fight now based on how Brian Mendoza has looked over the last year or so. 00:19:53 Speaker 4: But if Tim Zuo, the favorite fighter, wins, then Zoo against Charlo was again a big fight. And if they do it in Australia, I mean, Charlo's back in business at one hundred and fifty four pounds with probably that huge chip on his shoulder again because people are criticizing him for the way that he thought against Canelo. 00:20:10 Speaker 2: Yeah, a lot of money he could make in Australia too. That'd be like a stadium fight out there and would certainly do bigger business. I think in the US there just isn't kind of a marketplace at least a big venue for Charlo Zoo, no matter how good a fight that it is. I'd love to see him go on the road and take that fight. That'll be a fun, a fun experience. The other one of the other stories Keith to come out of Vegas was the future of Showtime Boxing. Showtime pay per view obviously the provider for Canelo against Charlo. They've got more pay per views coming up, most notably Android against Benavidez. I know, don't want to put you in a tough spot. Obviously boxing scene part of the Paramount umbrella, you know, working underneath all that, But I didn't hear anything to make me feel like the rumors of Showtime's exit from boxing are not true. I listened to all the interviews, even that Spinoza did. He talked about how they do have stuff coming up on the schedule, which is accurate. They are going to put on the Zoom Mendoza fight, They're gonna have a couple of pay per views, most likely before the end of the year. But you know, it certainly sounded to me Keith like the if the exit isn't right there, the exit date isn't right there, and known it's coming for Showtime Boxing, what can you tell us about kind of the future of Showtime Boxing. 00:21:29 Speaker 4: It's my understanding, Chris, that we have the Mendoza Zoo or Zoom Mendoza fight on October fourteenth, which is technically a Showtime Championship Boxing show,

although it's really just them televising the fight from the main broadcaster in Australia, that is a Showtime Championship Boxing data on the fourteenth of October. There will then not be another Showtime show as far as I know, until the Benevetez Android pay per view fight on November twenty fifth. They're also planning a Showtime Championship Boxing show for December ninth, and I think that will be it for the rest of the year and then who knows. I mean, you know, and hearing a lot of things internally externally, it doesn't look like the future of Showtime Boxing is good. You know, it's been a prominent American premium cable provider for boxing over the last five years since its rival HBO went out of the business. They've had a really good run this particular year. And you know, they've done a lot of good fights over the last five years since HBO got out of boxing as well, but this year in particular from a pay perview standpoint, although the fights haven't unfolded that way in the ring, all the big fights have happened that people wanted to see between Geronte Davis, Ryan Garcia, Terence Crawford, Erol Spence Junior, and now not everyone was clamoring for Canelo Jamel Charlow, but Canelo is now in the fold for a three fight deal with PBC, and this was the first fight of that. Things seem to be going about as well as they could have gone in twenty twenty three. I'm not sure if the decision hadn't already been made at the top of Paramount Food chain in terms of it's the company's future in boxing. And again, like you said, Paramount Global owns boxing scene dot com. And I'm a Paramount Global employee, but I'm certainly not privy to what the people at the tippy top are discussing in these meetings. But so we're all just waiting to find out what actually happens. I would say there's not a lot of optimism right now that it's going to move forward in twenty twenty four the way that it did in twenty twenty three. Although there is one more year left on Showtimes deal with Premiere Boxing Champions. They would have to pay the company would have to pay Al Hayman a substantial sum of money to get out of the last year of the deal. Maybe they'll see it as worthwhile to do that. Again, I don't know what high level executives in our company feel is a lot of money name him, because you know, certainly a lot of money to me, but maybe not in the grand scheme. It would all for you know, a company that's worth tens and tens of billions of dollars might do this differently. So we're just waiting, Chris. We're all just waiting to find out what the future of boxing on Showtime is and then of course where PBC would go thereafter as its primary platform to televise or stream boxing. You would think that Al Hayman, no matter what happens with Showtime, let's just say Showtime stays in boxing for twenty twenty four, he would need another partner the way that he had Fox as a partner, because he has so many fighters either under contract or under verbal agreements with him. You would think he would need another content provider because he has so many fighters to service anyway. But you know, again, as we sit here and do this podcast on Tuesday morning, October third, Chris, we just don't know yet and we just have to wait. 00:24:59 Speaker 7: Yeah. 00:24:59 Speaker 2: The only thing I would ad is I do know that PBC has talked to Amazon. I believe that's their preferred destinies. 00:25:09 Speaker 3: They prefer to a deal with Amazon. 00:25:11 Speaker 2: Amazon has gotten into sports more than other streaming services over the last couple of years, NFL football, you know, they've done some sports talk shows, things like that. I know they've been discussied in PBC and Amazon. I don't know what Amazon is looking to do. What they're looking to become a Showtime like boxing provider. Are they looking to do one off shows? I don't know the answer to that question, but there has been dialogue between PBC officials and Amazon. I will say this too, Keith, it is it's just kind of depressing, you know, people that celebrate Showtimes exit are just assholes. Like honestly, like Showtime has done a great job, you know, over you know, thirty five plus years at broadcasting boxing. Anytime a provider like that, you know, goes out, it's not good for boxing. But it's depressing that, you know, boxing just can't seem to make it work right on American television. 00:26:01 Speaker 3: It just can't seem to find. 00:26:03 Speaker 2: A a sustainable, functional, thriving model. And that's bizarre to me, mostly because I know they're different entities. But sports broadcasting rights are gold right now. I mean, the NBA is going to collect billions, The NFL just collected billions. The NHL when their contracts are probably going to collect billions. Hell UFC when their deal is up in a couple of years. The ESPN, they are going to make a fortune on a new rights deal. Meanwhile, with boxing, over the last five years, HBO has gone out, Showtime's gone out, Fox has gone out, some of these smaller outlets, whether it's Spike or Bounce. NBC has has gone out with their deal. Now we're left it looked his own still in it. But they're raising prices, you know, they're they're certainly trying to make as much money as they can off subscribers at this point. 00:26:52 Speaker 3: And ESPN. 00:26:54 Speaker 2: We'll see what ESPN does in a couple of years when you know, when they have to pay all this money for NBA rights and for UFC. Right now, I mean, it's just, you know, I keep seeing everybody's like boxing in the best place, event's having a great year. Sure that may be true, but if it was in this great place, you would have networks and streaming services dying to get in business. But the fractured nature of it, Keith is just it it's not good. It's not a good landscape right now for boxing because you don't have providers eager to get in business with the sport. 00:27:27 Speaker 3: And I think that's a problem. 00:27:28 Speaker 4:

Yeah, you know, Chris. The surprising thing, to some degree anyway, is that boxing is cheap in comparison to other sports, like you mentioned the NBA, which frankly, these rights fees are they're grossly overpaying for these rights fees because they're just not making a real return on their investment. And I think some of these high level TV executives are starting to realize that with you know, the NFL might be a little different, but most other sports they've overpaid for these licensees. But boxing is comparatively cheap, and you would think that people, you know, that television executive streaming executives would view it as such and continue to televise it. But it all comes down to how many viewers it's doing, and if they just don't see the juice is worth the squeeze, they're just going to eliminate it like anything else. I mean, it's not it's not hard to figure out, I guess, I mean it is. It is if you especially for guy. I know, Chris, you cover the NBA as well, but you know, I make a living exclusively covering boxing now, and it's not positive for the future of the sport for HBO to have gone out of boxing five years ago and now potentially Showtime going out of boxing. You know, Fox was involved, which was good for the sport because it was available to more people just by it being on broadcast television. And now, like you said, ESPN has a little less than two years left on its deal with Top Rank, and if for whatever reason that deal is not renewed, which who knows, you know, then you would have gone from having boxing on ESPN, Fox Showtime, the Zone here in the US to potentially di Zone. If the zone stays in boxing, I mean it's it's then what you know? Then where is boxing? In terms of how you view it? The pay per view model has been destructive to the sport to some extent. You know, you put all the best fights on pay per view, and people don't like if you here's a good example, Chris, if you're a hardcore boxing fan and you buy a lot of the pay per views. I know a lot of younger people in particular, find a way to stream it or steal it however you want to frame it. But if you paid eighty five dollars on Saturday night, you couldn't come away from that feeling good because you feel like one of the b side of the main event didn't really try to win, and the unfortunately what was billed as and rightfully so, it was built as a great undercard. I mean there were three very good matchups. You know. The co feature between Ericson Lubin and hayesus Ramos was of every dull fight and also one of the most perplexing decisions I've seen in quite some time, because one of the judges scored nine rounds for Ericson Lubin when he lost the fight. So you know, so you wouldn't come away from the first fight was amazing, by the way. I don't know if you watched the whole thing I did. Yeah, the Elijah Garcia Armando ver Sendi's fight was a dog fight that Elijah Garcia won by a knockout eventually, and that was an excellent fight. That Ugas Barrios fight was

reasonably entertaining. But point being, if you spent eighty five bucks primarily to see Canalo fight Jamult Charlie, but you would be pretty pissed off, and rightfully. 00:30:34 Speaker 3: So, yeah, I agree. 00:30:38 Speaker 2: I would add one more thing about Amazon if I just my take on Amazon, if they do want to get into boxing, don't do an exclusive deal with anybody. 00:30:50 Speaker 3: I think exclusive. 00:30:51 Speaker 2: Deals have been a major problem for boxing over the years because it has unk the pool of available fights in available. 00:31:05 Speaker 3: Just available shows. 00:31:06 Speaker 2: I think if you're Amazon, you know and look, a boxing budget for Amazon is nothing. But let's say, let's hypothetically say they threw say we' gonna throw two hundred million dollars a year into boxing. That's nothing. They pay billions for Thursday Night football on to the NFL. If they were said to say, we have two hundred million dollars a year for boxing, hire somebody to oversee that and say, look, if you're a promoter and you want to do fights on our network or on our streaming service, you know. 00:31:31 Speaker 3: Pitch the fight, you know, tell me, pitch me a good fight. Don't give me. 00:31:36 Speaker 2: You know, bad fights just because we have to provide you with ten twelve fourteen fights per That doesn't work. 00:31:41 Speaker 3: It's proven it doesn't work. 00:31:43 Speaker 2: I think Amazon is an opportunity because they can afford to throw a couple hundred million at boxing and do some good things, do some big things. I'd love to see them try something new because they're one of the few entities out there with the budget to do that. So we'll see what Amazon does, uh in the future. I think they're a player to watch in all this A couple things where I let you go, Keith, the Fury Usik fight is signed. We don't know the exact date of it. It Fury's got to get through France is the gan who first. Maybe it's late December, possibly the first couple of months of twenty twenty four. My immediate takeaway from that fight, Keith was Tyson Fury is just laughing all the way to the bank. Like Tyson Fury took a lot of heat, you know, over the summer for making this deal with France the Ganoho. People said he should have been stripped. People you know, said this fight should never happen. He was making a mockery. People believed him when he said he was, you know, gonna fight John Jones and do all these exhibition type fights. Now he's gonna get a big bag to fight France. Is the Gano wanna fight that he frankly can't lose, and then he's gonna fight Alex and Usik, And what I believe is a two fight deal. I've had people on both sides tell me this is a two fight deal for these guys and probably make a boatload of money for that. So, look, Usik is a winner because Usik's gonna get a chance to unify the titles, no question. But I think Tyson Fury is the big winner in all this keith he has taken. He is going to make a lot of money from the Saudis to fight Francis, the Ganu and Alexander Usik. So I think the criticism he took and the wait for this fight was probably worth it. 00:33:13 Speaker 4: Yeah, and look, he's he's going to be very active here over the next few months. Chris, I don't I don't know that December twenty third is realistic and that if this, if the Singhanu fight goes let's just say it goes ten rounds or who knows what's going to happen. I don't really see it as being all that Based on the footage I've seen of Francis and Ganu, boy, I don't see that being remotely competitive. I think Tyson Fur will basically toy with him and then just you know, of course, try to get a try to avoid getting hit with one of those big right hands, because the guy can punch. I've had people who've been in the gym with him in Vegas tell me over the last couple of weeks that this guy really can crack, like at a Deontay Wilder level. I don't know that's possible exactly, but he can really punch. He's a big, strong dude, but he has virtually no idea how to box, based on what i've unless they were trying to lure Tyson Fury in by making him think that he's that terrible. I mean, he looked pretty fundamentally awful, is the best way to put it. So I don't really expect that to be much more than kind of just like Tyson Fury moving around the ring and picking apart Francis and Gandhu. And the biggest thing, of course, is that he doesn't come away from that with any injuries and he cuts or anything, because of course that would push the USIK fight back. But even if he if he comes out of it completely healthy and goes the full ten rounds with Francis and Gandhu, it's less than two months later, it's two days before Christmas. I don't know how much that matters in Saudi, you know whatever, but it's probably too quick of a turn around the way Bob Aerram explained it to me, is as long as they do the fight before Ramadan starts, which I believe is March tenth. It's fine with the people who are putting up the money. And look, they're putting up the money, so they call the shots. They do whatever they want, which is why, acording to what Bob told me the other day, why it was announced on Friday. They know they had the deal done, they wanted to make the announcement Friday morning. Bob said that I could have waited until after the fight, because now you have this, you know, we don't really think all that much of Francis ang Gando. If we're announcing his next fight, that's never a good way to go about it in terms of promoting this upcoming fight that they've also spent a lot of money on. Bob would have preferred them to just, you know, announce it in the ring after the fight or something like that. But they're paying all the money, so they get to call the shots and dictate how it goes. Bob kind of felt like Al Hayman would be angry with him because they announced it the day before the Canelo Charlot fight. He said that was not his call. And he didn't really do this on purpose. It was the Saudi's

decision to do it. Anyway, It's great for Tyson Fury to answer your question. He's going to make an enormous amount of money for this Agano event. He is then going to make an enormous amount of money again one fight, two fights, whatever it is with Alexander Usik, and we're getting to see the fight that we wanted to see in a heavyweight division have already happened. But better late than never, right, because we're finally going to get barring a no contest or withdraw the fully unified heavyweight champion for the first time in the floor belt. 00:36:11 Speaker 2: There and again we might see if the fight's competitive, could see two versions of it. We could see two fights back to back, which would be a heck of a run for Tyson Fury to go from a easy fight with the Gano to two fights with as An Usik that could be legacy defining for him. Last thing also announced this week, Ryan Garcia back December second. He is going to fight Oscar Duarte. I believe in Texas. 00:36:38 Speaker 3: I was. 00:36:38 Speaker 2: I'm not surprised that that Garcia's back, And you know this there's been a fight in talks for a while now. November eighteenth was the first date that was discussed for Ryan Garcia. Now it's moved to December second. I am a little bit surprised Keith that he's fighting Oscar Duarte. One of the other names that was in the water supply was Pedro Kampa, and that made a little more sense to me. 00:36:56 Speaker 3: Kampa. 00:36:57 Speaker 2: Yeah, he's fought, you know, guys like Ta femlow Pez before, but he doesn't have a lot of power and he's been outclassed at one forty, d'Arte is one hundred and thirty five pounder, but he is physical, like he's a guy who's going to bring the fight to Ryan Garcia. Maybe he gets knocked out right, Maybe Ryan counter punches him in the way that he's counterpunched a lot of guys in his career. But this is a I think a tougher than expected fight maybe at least in my mind, for Ryan Garcia and his debut at one forty. 00:37:22 Speaker 3: How do you see Garcia Duarte? 00:37:25 Speaker 4: Well, d'Arte is on a nice run. He's one of eleven fights in a row since suffering is only loss, but he is a one hundred and thirty five pounder, and if Ryan Garcia is one hundred and forty pound fighter, I would at some point like to see him fight. I don't know one hundred and forty pound fighter, because he has now fought Javier Fortuna now the Tank fight. Of course, it was at one hundred and thirty six pounds at the catchweight. Was the biggest fight of the year, and no problems with that, But otherwise he hasn't fought one hundred and forty pounder and he's he is one hundred and forty pounder now, so I don't like that part of it. But Dwarte is kind of the level of opponent that I expected him to come back against his first fight with Derek James's his trainer. It's his first fight coming off his first defeat. I have no problem with the level of opponent. I just again would have preferred it to be against a real forty pounder

because assuming he wins this fight, there are some very big fights for him in one hundred and forty pound division. You know, the winner of Haini Prograde Mo Lopez, which should be across promotional type of fight, but a fight that the public would be very interested in. So you know, my short answer to this all is I prefer to see him fight one hundred and forty pounder, but have no problem with the level of opponent that he's fighting. And this is the biggest opportunity far and away of Oscar de Marte's life because frankly hasn't fought anybody. This is a huge opportunity, a potentially life changing opportunity for him. So I would expect him to, you know, to really go to go for it in this fight. And he is dangerous a little bit because he can punch, So you know, we'll see what happens here, but hopefully we'll see maybe some improvements in Ryan Garcia because it is his first fight with Derek James is his trainer. And then in maybe the first quarter or first third of next year, we'll see him against the top one hundred and forty pounder. 00:39:11 Speaker 2: Do you think he gets a title fight in his next fight if he beats Duarte on December second. I know Golden Boy has tried to align themselves that WBA belt. They signed Ohara Davies to a contract. I don't know what's going on with that title. Robt Romero currently has the belt, he's on some kind of medical leave. Do you think Ryan Garcia gets a title fight there? I mean you mentioned Devin Haney, those who have been talking about a fight for some time. That's an easy fight to make too, because Devin Haney is aligned now with Mattrum only a one fight deal with Regis Progray. But if he beats pro Gray, I think mattrim has some kind of matching rights. They could make that fight with Ryan Garcia pretty easily. Do you think Ryan Garcia's next fight is for a world title? 00:39:53 Speaker 4: I do, because, like you said, Hani has the flexibility to work with whichever promoter and platform he wants at this point, so that fight certainly would be the winner of that fight would be available to him. And people have long wanted to see Devin Haney fight Ryan Garcia with all their amateur experiences together and everything, so people would love to see that, and I think people would love to see him fight Tea Fimo Lopez as well. So Lopez is not going to fight, according to what Bob Aram told me, until the first quarter of next year if they Golden Boy in top ranked two business together, so there's no reason that fight couldn't happen as well? Those are those would be the two fights that you would want to see Ryan Garcia in next assuming he beats Oscar Duarte on December second, And those are two fantastic options. I mean, what more could you want? Really? I mean, those are the those are the big names in the one hundred and forty pound division, winner of Haini, Progray and tia Fimo Lopez. So why not? Yeah? 00:40:45 Speaker 2: One er forty is one of the hottest divisions in boxing, maybe the hottest division in boxing right now. Keith Idex, senior writer Boxing Scene dot Com. Keith, the second that Andreid Benevetez becomes official, I want you to open up the DraftKings App. I don't want to put you to put all put the house. Put the house on Demetrius andre to win by decision. That is the safest place you could put your money over the next couple of months. 00:41:11 Speaker 4: Well, I have nothing against Booboo, you know, I wish him well in the fight and everything. But let's make it a price seat dinner. Make the better pricey dinner because it's going to be on Chris Mannix Dal. 00:41:23 Speaker 3: Keith, I appreciate the time man. 00:41:24 Speaker 2: Welcome Chris a good man and when we come back my conversation with Eddie hearn Well. 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See sportsbook dot DraftKings dot com, slide football terms for eligibility and deposit restrictions, terms and responsible. 00:43:04 Speaker 3: Gaming resources. 00:43:08 Speaker 7: All right. 00:43:08 Speaker 2: On Saturday, a one hundred and twenty six pound title is on the line when Leewood defense his WBA belt against Josh Warrington at Sheffield Arena. 00:43:17 Speaker 3: That's a fight you could watch live on his own. The promoter of that. 00:43:21 Speaker 2: Event is the ubiquitous Eddie Hearn Eddie joins Me on the show, Eddie or. 00:43:27 Speaker 3: Ubiquitous love It. 00:43:31 Speaker 7: I don't know what it means. Sounds sounds unbelievable. 00:43:34 Speaker 2: I mean, I'm I'm a writer first and foremost, Eddie, and

ubiquitous means everywhere. 00:43:37 Speaker 3: You're everywhere. 00:43:40 Speaker 7: I'm going to use that this waity. I loved it, Thank you, thank you. 00:43:43 Speaker 5: Yeah, oh good mate, good looking forward to a great fight. I mean it's a massive fight here in the UK. Now, you've got two British world champions. Really, I mean Leewood reigning two time world champion, Josh Warrington, a two time world champion trying to become a three time world champion. Now we have a city called Nottingham and a city called Leads about an hour apart, hour and a half apart, and Sheffield's in the middle, and that's where the fight's taking the place. So an arena divided on Saturday, and just a really really great fight stylistically as well. 00:44:15 Speaker 2: Yeah, and Lee would coming off a terrific performance against Mauricio Laura. 00:44:18 Speaker 3: I want to get into that as well. 00:44:20 Speaker 2: I want to ask your first Eddie for your thoughts on your former fighter, maybe future fighter. Canelo Alvarez beats Jamel Charlo out in Las Vegas this past weekend. A pretty disappointing fight for everybody that was involved. Did you expect more from Jamel Charlo in that fight? Yeah? 00:44:39 Speaker 7: Weird. 00:44:39 Speaker 5: I mean, I don't know whether you know, it's like these guys turn up without any real desire to roll the dice, you know. I mean I actually looked at him in the changing rooms and I thought it looked he didn't even look in decent shape. No, is that because he's a one fifty four going up to a one sixty eight. I don't know, but fleshy. His body language just wasn't really at the races and in the ring. He never tried to win the fight once, you know. And I know that canelos a beast and he is and I really feel, like I said in the interviews before, Canelo will be back to more of himself in this fight. But I think even Canelo would be surprised. But the lack of desire from Charlo. We're just weird and disappointing that, you know, what should have been a mega fight if you like, really sort of the talk like you know, I don't know, it's just I don't understand mentally what was going on in there that night, and you know, at disappoint at disappointing fire I think has to be said. 00:45:45 Speaker 2: Do you think there's anybody between one fifty four and one sixty eight that can compete with this version of Canelo? Because now we're hearing about David Benavitez and how dangerous a fight he is. I've always said, Eddie, that beat Canelo, you have to throw with Canelo, and only two fighters I've seen do it. Cannadi Gilofkin did it over the course of three fights, and dmitriy Beevol did it a year and a half ago. You've got to be willing to throw right hands against Canelo, and Benavidez has looked great up until this point. But it's one thing to throw right hands against Caleb plant it's another thing to throw them when Canelo Alvarez is staying in front of Do you think anybody can compete with this guy between one fifty four and one sixty eight. 00:46:27 Speaker 7: Yeah, I think Benavidez will. 00:46:29 Speaker 5: I think Benavidez would come to win, you know, And that's what Charlo didn't do. You know, you cannot say Charlo came to win, because he just didn't. But Benavidez would come to win, you know, And I think it would be a compelling fire. I guess the plan was for Canelo and Charlo to have a great fight and then the other brother step in and you know, almost like Apollo Creed, Rocky Balboa sta in Russia, you know, get revenge. But that fight is unsellable now after that performance. So I don't know who they're going to look to next. I know there's a talk of Crawford. I don't really see that materializing at one sixty eight. I think they'll they'll make Benavidez against Andred and then look to make Canelo Benavidez next May. Perhaps, But who will the Sextmber be. I don't know. You know, it's hard to sell a competitive fight with Canelo versited anyone at the moment outside of you know, I think Crawford of course, because of the fascination, and Benavidez is definitely a guy that would sell extremely well. 00:47:33 Speaker 7: And maybe that's the fight they look to in September. 00:47:36 Speaker 2: Oh, they make Benavidez versus Andreid, Eddie, don't make any plans. Don't make any plans for don't make any plans for Benavidez Canelo. 00:47:45 Speaker 7: I'm take you that night in America. 00:47:49 Speaker 2: Andreid five years it would be about the five year anniversary of Andred winning that middleweight title where he finally got a real show. 00:47:57 Speaker 7: Is in forty six. 00:47:58 Speaker 2: Now, I don't know, still under feed, still undefeated, that's for sure. One of the stories to come out of Vegas last week is something you've been talking about and people have been talking about the future of Showtime Boxing. Steven Espinoza had multiple opportunities to kind of deny the idea that Showtime was getting out, didn't do it. 00:48:18 Speaker 3: My question for you, Eddie is if Showtime. 00:48:20 Speaker 2: Bows out in the next few months or only goes to pay per view, it will leave his own and ESPN as the primary providers in the US. And over the last five years, we've seen HBO go out, We've seen Fox go out, we have seen some of the smaller entities go out. You know, in the US, sports broadcast rights are gold. You're seeing you know, network's bid billions of dollars for NFL, NBA, NHL. Why is it so difficult for boxing to get it right? Can it get it right when it comes to you know, broadcast rights and making something work long term? 00:48:57 Speaker 5: So I think the only reality is that some boxing riots are overpriced and that is mainly down because of some fighters. Purses are vastly inflated in relation to their commercial value. Like not all boxing works for broadcasters. I think it's a it's a sexy sport. I think the digital footprint and noise of the sport is right up there with every major sport in the world. The debate, the

interaction, but unfortunately fighter perses have become so inflated that the maths doesn't work for the broadcaster. And I think that's what you're seeing with Showtime now. I said a couple of years ago that Showtime would be out of boxing soon. It definitely took a year or so longer than I predicted, but I just felt at the time that they were spending the amount of money that these these the talent is getting paid doesn't reflect in the numbers. Who are the jaws in boxing? And I think they'll remain in pay with you because the model is more consistent and you know less. You know, there's less risk for the broadcaster of taking a huge bath when it's a pay per view model. But I think purses and guarantees and all that kind of stuff will start changing because the reality is is ninety percent of fighters probably are overpaid in terms of their commercial value. And that's the key part. You know, I think fighters deserve as much money as possible. You know, they're there to provide entertainment for us. It's a dangerous sport. But you can't remove the maths from the equation, and that is subscriber numbers, ticket sales within the venue. And you know, I think you're going to start seeing promoters start to not understand that more, but start to be firmer in terms of their decisions to make fighters, even ourselves. You know, we're in situations later with a fighter. You know, a man might say, oh, we just need a run out here. You know, it's like no, We've got to learn to say no, because the only people to get the blame is us. You know, the fans look at it and say rubbish fight. The broadcast looks at it and say, no, one was interested in that fight. We look in the arena and it hasn't generated the ticket sales. So we have to be a little bit firmer by saying no. We must make competitive fights, and we must be prepared to walk away from situations that are not beneficial to the sport. The broadcaster and our business just to keep a fighter or just to agree to a request from a manager or a lawyer. So I think Showtime have been a victim of this competitive market where they've had to pay those numbers that quite frankly haven't made sense for the business. 00:51:48 Speaker 7: And now and by the way, Showtime leaving boxing. 00:51:52 Speaker 5: Everyone likes to you know, I know Steven Esperinoza's he's liked, he's disliked, and it's like a lot of figures are in boxing. But to see him out of the spool and show Time out of the sport, it's really not a gloating moment. I think that, you know, there's a lot of people that are glossed. 00:52:08 Speaker 7: Not for man. 00:52:09 Speaker 5: I want as many broadcasters in the sport as possible, and show Time a powerful broadcast that have given us great content. 00:52:16 Speaker 7: The fact that it hasn't worked for them. 00:52:19 Speaker 5: They've tried, and the schedule they've given us is this year has been fantastic. But I think the business will look at it and say, well, we'll just do pay per views.

And I know there's nothing official, but the lack of resistance from the story is, you know, is really tells us all We need to know. 00:52:36 Speaker 2: So let's apply that approach that you just talked about to Edgar Berlanga, who you met with in Orlando this past week. You want to see Edgar Berlanga in a big fight. Edgar Berlanga will be in a big fight if he's paid what he and his manager want him to be paid. Where do we stand with this, because it seems like we're trending toward another kind of lesser fight for your Berlanga and not the Hima Mungia fight that everybody wants to see. 00:53:05 Speaker 5: Well, I think firstly, it looks like Jimi Mungeir hopefully will fight John Ryder in January, which which would be great, and Ega blangerie a fight of that level. You know, it's obviously we're not in the business of just paying for a fight with an opponent that's not compelling, that doesn't sell, that doesn't rate. If you continue doing that as a sport and a business, your future is in. 00:53:31 Speaker 7: No man's land. 00:53:31 Speaker 5: So, but at the same time, we want to make Blanger against Mungeir. So our conversations with Egabalanger are you're going to fight around January time and then we're going to do a deal at the same time for you to fight him in Mungeir because if you want, you know, if you don't want a big fight in January, you're having a big fight next. So you know, let's plan together that strategy. I think everybody on the team is happy to fight Jimi Mungeir in Mai or June after one more but it's got to be at the right price for everybody. And that's what we're going through at the moment, to find a compelling opponent for January and to lock in the Mungia fight at the same time. And you know, if Mungea was to beat John Ryder and Berlanga was to get a win of the same level, then you're talking about a really big fight next summer between the two. 00:54:19 Speaker 2: Do you have an opponent in mind that makes sense for Berlanga in January. 00:54:25 Speaker 5: John Ryder if the Mungea fight doesn't happen, you know, I don't know, but of that kind of you know, that kind of of level, and you know, it is quite thin at one sixty eight. It's not full of you know, intriguing fights. But in need, we need to find one because we need to provide one for the fight fans, for design, and we need to provide the right fight for Edgar to prepare himself for the likes of Mungea. 00:54:48 Speaker 2: The Tyson Fury Alexander Usik fight was announced this week. That's one of two huge heavyweight fights that could be made in twenty twenty three or twenty twenty four. The other one obviously Deontay Wilder, Anthony Joshua, Tyson Fury, and Usik kind of got the bag over in Saudi Arabia. Can you do a Wilder Joshua fight without the Middle East and the money they provide. 00:55:13 Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean you do it for less money, but you still do it for a huge amount of money. And you know, I think making those big fights like Joshua so Wilder Usik against Fury is great for you know. I was called it the ecosystem of boxing because I know that Joshua and Wilder are both thinking, right, let's get our fight made, you know. So we've had a number of talks with sites in the Middle East. Still we had the option of Las Vegas. I would love to do the fight in Las Vegas. I mean it would be one of the biggest fights America has seen for a long time. So there is constant communication between myself and Chery Finkle to get it made. 00:55:53 Speaker 7: You know. 00:55:53 Speaker 5: We do have the option of a fight in December, which we're mulling over at the moment, but our absolute focus is on Joshua Wilder and that's the same for Joshua and that's the same for Deontay Wilder. So we appreciate the purse might not be exactly the same as a fight in Saudi. It's still a huge purse, you know, and it's still a massive gate in Vegas. It's a massive pay per view globally, and it's an incredible heavyweight fight. So yeah, we're all motivated to try and find a way. 00:56:19 Speaker 2: We saw Connor Ben run out a couple of weeks ago in Orlando get his first fight in seventeen months, he said afterwards, and has said publicly wants to fight back in the UK in his next fight. How much of any movement over the last couple of weeks has there been with the British Boxing Board of dealing with this appeal for Connor Ben. 00:56:40 Speaker 5: Well, there's been conversations, you know, and we wait to see when that appeal will take place. At the moment, you know, under the rules whatever way you want to look at it. He is not suspended and he's cleared to box in the UK or around the world. We want to do the U Bank fight in the UK, but obviously they have to be happy with that. And you know, we can take the U Bank fight to the Middle East, of which we've had offers to do it. But if you're talking about Joshua Wilder in Vegas, and you're talking about Usik against Fury in Saudi Arabia, and then you're talking about U Bank against Ben in Abu. 00:57:18 Speaker 7: Dhabi, it's kind of sad time for British boxing. You know. 00:57:23 Speaker 5: It doesn't just mean the board, you know, should just agree because they need a big fight in the UK. But if legally he's allowed to fight, I would like to explore that option and December twenty third, then U Bank is ready to go if we were giving the blessing to do in the UK. So those talks can continue and we'll see where we get to. 00:57:41 Speaker 2: Right So Lee would Josh Warrington this weekend. Leewood clearly has something left in the tank. That was a brilliant performance against Mauricio Laura. I'm less confident Eddie that Josh Warrington has enough left to compete with lee Wood. Do you believe that Warrington has enough left the tanks? 00:58:00 Speaker 7: Yeah? I disagree. 00:58:01 Speaker 5: I think you know, if you look at the Lopez fight, that was a great fight. He had a bad start in that fight. He took the kitchen sink. You know, Warrington has a great chin and I felt he could have nicked that fight, you know, being at home being a champion, but a very close fight. That performance looks good, you know, af the back of the Gonzales fight and particularly off the back of the Michael Connor knockout from from Lopez. Josh Warrington is a determined, tough individual with a tremendous work rate and a great chin. He's going to stick it on Leeward. 00:58:30 Speaker 7: He's going to. 00:58:31 Speaker 5: Attack him from the first belt. Leewood can really punch, but he has been, you know, susceptible at times. You saw him dropped against Connor and dropped against Lara. Warrington not the biggest puncher, but a huge volume puncher. And this atmosphere is going to be so intense, honestly, tuning on design is going to be wild, and I think it's a complete fifty to fifty fight. 00:58:55 Speaker 3: You look at the stakes for this fight. 00:58:59 Speaker 2: Top rank right now has been kind of hoarding some of those belts, partly because they want to have Nelia in a way, have an opponent at one hundred and twenty six pounds if he decides to go up. Leewood or Josh Warrington is certainly more marketable than Robisi Ramirez or Luis Lopez. Is there any chance in your mind that the winner of this fight could be a potential candidate to fight in a way if he decides to fight at one twenty six next year? 00:59:24 Speaker 7: Maybe? 00:59:25 Speaker 5: I mean it's going to take him to move to those kind of numbers to get beat, do you know what I mean? The only way you're going to beat a new A is it for him to move outside of his weight class. Really, so, you know, Josh, Ryanton and Lee would neither a spring chickens and we just want the biggest fights and if that comes in the way of a new A, no problem at all. But you know, I think Saturday determines the best featherweight in the division. 00:59:48 Speaker 7: I truly believe that. 00:59:50 Speaker 2: Eddie Hearn ubiquitous as always, appreciate your time. 00:59:53 Speaker 7: Eddie Jeers Chris speak to you mate. 00:59:57 Speaker 2: That's it for this week's episode. My thanks to Keith Ideck Eddie Hearn for joining the show. As always, subscribe, rate, review this podcast on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, wherever you download podcasts, and I'll see you next week.