"You can systematize innovation even if you can't completely predict it." — Eric Schmidt

Eric Schmidt (@ericschmidt) is Technical Advisor and Board Member to Alphabet Inc., where he advises its leaders on technology, business and policy issues. Eric joined Google in 2001 and helped grow the company from a Silicon Valley startup to a global leader in technology. He served as Google's Chief Executive Officer from 2001-2011, and Executive Chairman 2011-2018, alongside founders Sergey Brin and Larry Page.

Eric serves on the boards of The Mayo Clinic and The Broad Institute, among others. His philanthropic efforts through The Schmidt Family Foundation focus on climate change, including support of ocean and marine life studies at sea, as well as education, specifically cutting-edge research and technology in the natural sciences and engineering. He is the founder of Schmidt Futures, which works to improve societal outcomes through the development of emerging science and technology.

He is the co-author of The New Digital Age, How Google Works, and the new book, Trillion Dollar Coach: The Leadership Playbook of Silicon Valley's Bill Campbell, which he co-authored with fellow Google leaders Jonathan Rosenberg (@jjrosenberg) and Alan Eagle (@aeaglejr).

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00:00:00optimal minimum altitude I can run flat out for a half mile before my hands start shaking
00:00:12I'm a cybernetic organism living tissue over metal endoskeleton
00:00:24this episode is brought to you by inktel and I've used them personally ever since I wrote the 4-Hour Work week I've been asked over and over again how I choose to delegate tasks how I do 80/20 analysis and so on at the root of many of those decisions is a simple question actually two questions number one how can I invest money to improve my quality of life I use that in investing as well II how can I spend a little money or moderate money to save significant time until it is one of those Investments there a turnkey solution for all of your imaginable customer care needs I used Intel during the launch of the 4-Hour Body which was very very involved and they provided 24/7 customer service for my land rush campaign because it was critical for me to take care of every person who purchased my books and participated this allowed me to focus on the things that I am better at my strengths like the marketing plan that we worked on for 6 months implementing that until train
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00:02:45this episode of the Tim Ferriss show was brought to you by LinkedIn the right hire can make a huge impact on your business the wrong iron Creator business and I have seen example after example from thousands of my readers at a minimum where they have told me stories of how finding the right person at the right time and in some cases not even asking what should I do but asking who should I find because that person can help me determine what exactly to do more intelligently and I've had a chance to hire two such people in the last year that is just made my business take a Quantum Leap Forward and my complexity in my personal and business life get cut dramatically in this type of simplification cannot be of value you think a lot about hiring and I think a lot about hiring and it is a skill that I've had to learn it is important to find the right person but where do you find that person you can
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00:05:08why do boys and girls Lads and lasses Madam's and misuses Tim Ferriss and welcome to another episode of the Tim Ferriss show where is my job to deconstruct world-class performers What on earth does that mean it means teasing out Lessons Learned habits routines favorite books etc for people who are at the top of their field or fields and that can range from business to sports from chess to you name it military strategy and this episode we have an icon I would say is a fair descriptor Eric Schmidt at Eric Schmidt who is technical advisor and board member to alphabet Inc where he advises its leaders on technology business and policy issues Eric joined Google in 2001 and how to grow the company from a Silicon Valley startup to a global leader in technology served as Google's chief executive officer that CEO from 2001 to 2011 and executive chairman from 2000
00:06:0811-2-2018 alongside founder Sergey Brin and Larry Page he has some incredible stories and his career as is just incredible to consider and discuss we get into a lot of specific takeaways lessons Etc under his leadership Google dramatically scaled its infrastructure and diversified its product offerings while maintaining a strong culture of innovation and he believes it Innovation can be systematized by the way and we get into what that means Eric serves on the boards of the Mayo Clinic and the broad Institute among others his philanthropic efforts through the Schmidt Family Foundation books on climate change including support ocean and marine life studies at Sea as well as education specifically cutting-edge research and technology in the Natural Sciences and Engineering his founder of Schmidt Futures which works to improve societal outcomes through the development of emerging Science and Technology he's also the co-author of several books the new digital age how Google works
00:07:08his latest book trillion-dollar coach it's a hell of a title subtitle the leadership Playbook of silicon Valley's Bill Campbell which he co-authored with Jonathan Rosenberg and Allen Eagle I've been fascinated by Bill Campbell for decades and I when I move Silicon Valley mm wanted to someday have a chance to speak to him directly unfortunately he passed away several years ago and in this conversation I finally get to ask a lot of the questions I've always wanted to ask about Bill Campbell who mentored or better put coached a who's who of people in Silicon Valley and did it without getting paid it's a crazy meaning he chose not to get paid it's such a wild story and it was an incredible opportunity to have a chance to sit down with Eric to discuss that and much more from his life so without further Ado please enjoy this conversation with Eric Schmidt and for more info on
00:08:08the book which I highly recommend checking out you can go trillion-dollar coach.com enjoy
00:08:17Eric welcome to the show thank you for having me so if we Flash Forward and I'm sure we will jump around a bend in a very nonlinear fashion when I look at your your undergrad experience is it true that you started in architecture and then shifted to electrical engineering that's right you know software didn't really exist at the time computer science didn't really exist as a field I have been programming when I was in high school it was a rare event the time when I meet some 15 year old boy that has three computers and be as a gamer and sits at home with all sorts of screens all night that was me back then without the computers without the gaming without the screens so when I went to college I actually applied as an architect because I had studied architecture in high school and I liked it but I wasn't very good architect but I was quite a much better engineer and when I got to
00:09:17freshman year I was good enough programmer that I skip the Freshman your programming and that's the Hallmark of a flexible college program as they organized around my ability so I was what we now call the early development nerd although the term was given used back then
00:09:34what did you like about architecture what Drew you to architecture initially I've always like building things and I've always liked structure and I've always been pretty analytical and puts into that computer science is computer science is about scale and scale of systems and organizing systems it's all the same stuff right so I found an architecture and we're again I didn't have the artistic sense but I had to scale since it's the same skill set
00:10:06and we're going to talk I suspect quite a bit about mentorship coaching mentors and coaches in this conversation and I thought we could look at a few periods in your past to talk about influences people you've learned from and we could be cancer play jump all over the place if anyone comes to mind that I don't prompt but I around 1983 and I'm skipping quite a bit of course you joined Sun Microsystems what people don't know what what did Sun Microsystems do and is there anyone who comes to mind as having taught you a lot while you were at Sun so one of the things to think about when you look at your phone or your Macintosh or your PC is it there were whole waves of predecessors of these things that were impossibly slower and it possibly more
00:11:06expensive but had those things not occurred we would have gotten to where you are today so each generation builds this product it's impossibly difficult to son managed to build what was impossible at the time which was a 1 megahertz processor a 1GB memory and a 1 megabit screen today your phone has a gigabit that is 1000 or more times more than that and we sold products for $50,000 to engineering design systems cuz they were busy doing technical things and that's how it started the workstation as it was known was actually based on something called an alto that was invented at Xerox Parc which of which I had worked with before and the workstation that it was invented a Xerox Alto Park was also the predecessor of the Lisa which was the predecessor of the Mack so again the Providence of these things are these
00:12:06very early research prototypes there were a few hundred Altos to Belt you can see them in museums today but I will tell you about them is that they are impossibly slow compared to what you are but they seemed enormously powerful at the time and you'll and how did you end up at son and did anyone in particular take you under their wing or impart lessons to you while you were there so in my story what happened was I was at Berkeley and my best friend was a brilliant computer scientist named Bill Joy who was the chief programmer of much of the technology of the time he did much of the early internet programming and when I was at Xerox I worked with another brilliant computer scientist named butter Lamson so I had the best best smartest mentors in the technical sense so I had a choice of staying into English
00:13:06but I really wanted to go into a company my friend Bill had found it sun Microsystems which was this technical platform at the time and I showed up and what happened was there were a couple of weeks I had knew nothing about business I figured it was like fine and there were some technical Founders they had brought in a professional CEO it's all very Scrappy and within a month of my starting there was a gentleman named Bernie Lacroix who was bought in he was impossibly old at 39 in my 20s and he had he knew everything he do everything even to everything I was so impressed by he knew how to build products he understood politics inside of a company he understood how to get things out the door he had worked at digital Equipment Corporation so again the management style of that generation imported to the Next Generation digital Equipment Corporation was subsequently purchased by a series of other companies including Hewlett-Packard
00:14:06was eventually purchased by Oracle where you can buy their products today so again that the technology is such that 30 years earlier that knowledge base survives in the heads of the people who were there and in the legacy of the Electoral property that they invented
00:14:24and I guess the same will be true 30 years from now for what we're talking about and I'm going to come back to Bill Joy a little bit later but I've only had a few people on this podcast the people who are on this podcast tend to be well-spoken but I've only had a few on who seem to speak in nearly finished pros and you seem to be on that short list have you always been as clear a communicator as you are or is that something that you developed and if so
00:14:58400 and if so how I don't know to be honest I'm just this is who I am I think what happens is that I'm a very logical thinker and I'm a good explainer to logical thinker + good explainer is how it works and I also try very hard to observe things around me and try to figure out how things work and that's been sort of my secret to having a little luck around me but going back to Mentor so Bernie was an incredible Force because he was also tough and he was also clear and he was also precise and he would get upset if we weren't working hard enough on something and he pushed us and I learned something I was very polite nice scientist coming out of Academia I learned that in business you need to be pushed you need somebody says we're going to go do this and we're pushing very hard and he really trained me in the executive Arts if you will I work for him for a decade
00:15:56what we're about to talk about those executive Parts because Aiden in my experience this isn't uniform of course but at some technologists
00:16:06view say the sales side of the management side with some degree of disdain that's not true across the board but it's it's somewhat common sentiment what were some of the executive arts or the lessons that you learned at that time it's important to say right now that today we know much more how to run successful tech companies that we did in the 1980s and 90s the formulas to learning the standards of excellence are far for more honed over the last 20 years of Executives working and each other companies and things like that that's part of why things happened so fast in our industry for the time we didn't really know how to professionally really software in this new space we didn't really have open source software established as a principal we didn't really know how to sell it we figured we would sell direct but how do we do that what kind of salesman did we hire
00:17:02so in that. It was much more raw than it sounds in hindsight we honestly didn't know do we hire a blue suited salesman who looks good and talks a lot and we hire somebody who's Ray technical because our customers were technical how do we goal them how do we listen to them on the technical side found the salespeople very entertaining because all they did was talk and we would sit there and eventually I was so curious but this is one of the sales people text you, and present the engineers what do sales people do and what he did was he got up and he said look my job is to talk people until they buy things and we all said what what do you how do you have to do this is that's why I'm always on the phone and I don't have dinner with you I want to have lunch with you cuz I don't have dinner with my family
00:17:53so so we we learned a lot about high-end sales and sales cycles that has since become the norm in these big ticket items what's interesting is the industry has found a removed away from now that the industry is gone from more B2B to b2c that is consumer businesses and a big change from that sun. Is now or industry is a consumer-focused an industry with many many successful such companies and you you are a very good and clear explainer and feel free to fact-check me on this but I believe you've taught at Stanford GSB The Graduate School of Business and did you teach with Peter Wendell the printer shotgun venture-capital class that's correct class on artificial intelligence apply to science at Cal Tech
00:18:45another fantastic institution I've spent some time with Peter so I went to Princeton undergrad and had a chance to hear him as a guest speaker and then went to GSP to sit in on his class when he was teaching many many years ago back when I have more hair and in that class are there any particular resources or books that you like to point people to for those who want to learn like you said a lot a lot of things have been codified in the last few decades what's interesting is a lot of the things that I'm talking about are still not written down from the engineering science perspective how do you manage a large softer project I'm not aware of a the defining book that describes that is plenty of technical books about aspects of softer but the culture of software is still evolving an example is that a recent change is a $0.02 pair programming where somebody writes code another one check sit there are language is a recent language is called the go language which actually is design
00:19:45around that principal so we just presume that that's how programming is done these were all things that were not worked out at the time without plugging my own books too much we teach how Google works in Imperial rental in my class at Stanford which is very very highly ranked class and having just done at I still think that the basic lessons that we talked that we talked about and how Google works which are fundamentally that it's the product as the product is the product is recruiting is recruiting its recruiting and transparency of how you operate the key lessons to be learned that are codified in that book
00:20:26and I think we can we can segue towards Google because we're going to spend quite a bit of of time on it and we may hit some of the intervening chapters along the way you make me feel Joy earlier and as you mentioned legendary for his prowess as a as a programmer who also then spend some time as a venture capitalist and it's it it's what I look at it was an interviewer talk that they've given this is actually on the Stanford GSB site you mentioned that approach that he had at one of his purchase so he'd find an area of Interest look up research papers about it he would figure out the two or three Best Authors and then call them and by the way these are people who know whenever call so they would call him right back and then he would ask them what's the most interesting thing in your field and I bring this up because I am cycling to another venture capitalist
00:21:23name John door and before we get into the role that John played cornyx at my reading at least in your introduction to Google what what who is John doerr what makes him special you can answer that question any water
00:21:40what John was this mythical figure that I met when I first joined son he seemed everywhere and he was one of these prodigies its sales he had worked at a company called come back any been so successful as a salesperson that he had joined Kleiner Perkins which became the most successful Venture firm in history I was so for a long time and he was on the board Sean and come back in a number of other companies and it was critical it was interesting to me was I learned a lot from John because he had a pretty simple rule which is that what do Venture capitalists do they help the management team they recruit management team and they raise money so his job is was once you have identified a company univestin that you were all in on that company and Kleiner Perkins at the time was the highest return highest gross margin the highest sleep aid partners of any of them and interest only Bernie who is my mentor
00:22:40current coach if you will went to Kleiner Perkins after he left son in and a number of other people including for No Coast that it as well so it's the world is much smaller than it seems if you're an outsider looking at our world some of you think it's his vast world but to me it seems like about a hundred people and they all know each other they've all been on each other's boards they were all working together toward a common goal I've since learned that this is how industries develop so when you go back to the starting of the automobile industry of the starting of any other industry they were it was a small community and everyone benefited by working together even if they were competing as an aside when I first came to Google I developed a habit of calling Terry Semel who was the Vinton CEO of Yahoo was our primary competitor to congratulate him for every deal he got and he developed the habit of calling me to congratulate me for my getting every deal and the reason aside from being a good person which he was
00:23:39we knew that if he got a customer to buy are their product we would shortly follow into that account and he knew that if we got a customer using this he knew that he would shortly following to the account so there's a real camaraderie around sharing the building of these new network platforms these new sort of forces of good if you will and there are relatively small group for much of their time it it also seems like and this is just one theory that I've come across when people are trying to explain why Silicon Valley happened where it did that non-competes in California being difficult to enforce seem to have also played a role in a lot of that of the formation that we have to take it too much time for that but I thought that was
00:24:35do you find that son of a plausible contributing factor when you have ascites National Semiconductor in these other objects to 1 and 30 seconds the history of the valley was that it started with the Fairchild Fairchild Corporation in the late 1950s and then a group of eight left they were called the traitorous and I went to Intel and other companies and they were funded by this guy named Arthur Rock and he was the only Venture capitalists that I interviewed him for something else I was doing he is now elderly and retired but incredibly impressive and I said what was Venture like back then and he said well we were the only one so we would just wait until we decided to make the way those six weeks eight weeks we were the only money in that and he had been clever enough to figure out the limited partner structure which fuel this industry
00:25:33so you have Arthur Rock and Intel and in the beginnings of semiconductor industry and then the beginnings of apple and Steve Jobs him and all of these sorts of things that we know about but he was very much at the time of a valley that was full of technical people because of that semiconductor Lockheed and things like that could be essentially engineers and they had typically come out of Stanford the Stanford contribution was significant once the business started going the fact that there was not a non-compete man to people all live essentially with each other right they went each other's parties marriages if you will everybody knew each other and from that strength they lifted all of us when I was young and I join Sun I didn't realize that there was a half generation above me that it built this edifice of venture funding corporations Tech startups and so forth which funded during that period Microsoft Apple Google
00:26:33Oracle and a few others yeah it's it's the Silicon Valley is a non-recurring phenomenon do you think that there are other are or will be areas that resemble Silicon Valley in terms of positive characteristics for entrepreneurship so basic courses are raging debate in the world and the thing Silicon Valley has going for it are at least historically abundance of land great opportunity plenty of money to tremendous technical universities in Berkeley and Stanford is history of entrepreneurial nature of things a sense of of of going higher than others this is the moon shots vs ruchottes there is a set if there are set of people who also believed that the nature of California is part of it there was a book written that some of this happen is it before my time because of the anti-war activities
00:27:33the sixties and LSD and so forth and that the kind of crazy thinkers of the time again before me and it up here and that also help program the area so they would think broader or higher I don't know if that's true or not but I will tell you that in order to replicate Silicon Valley you're going to need to have leading universities lots of money and time we have evidence that Cambridge has the Cambridge Massachusetts has done this if you could biotech they've clearly built a model very similar we have evidence that New York is on its way so it looks like there's enough money enough people enough universities they're obviously a great job of a city
00:28:17and we have evidence that Beijing has the same feeling when you go to Beijing you get that same feeling of crazy startups so those are a few Tel Aviv is another one we need more competitors than the ones I just named we need 20 competitors 30 in letters 40 competitors yeah it's it's it's been fascinating to visit Singapore and many other cities that are trying to replicate some certainly more successfully than others but if we could come back to Silicon Valley and we come back to John door when I'm done and went like you said for a long time with this mythical being mean is the best known of the best-known Venture capitalists and when I move to Silicon Valley in mm really that was the case what role did he have in introducing you to Google I have known John for very very long time cuz he was on the board of sound when I was there for
00:29:1713 years and I have to be at a fundraiser a political fundraiser at John Chambers house who was the CEO of Cisco and John came up to me that is John working out to me says you should check out Google and I said it's a search engine and he goes yes and they're looking for a CEO and said they want him out too much he said look you really will enjoy it you'll enjoy meeting the founders I had briefly met Larry who seem very smart but relatively quiet and so he encouraged me to come and we had a and that's kick it off so I owe the fact that I'm a Google to John door
00:29:57and you go to meet Larry and Sergey and I don't have too many of the specifics but as I understand it they had a bio of you or something like that up on a wall bunch of food and then proceeded to have what type of conversation what what that last picture show up and it's an old building that I used to manage when I was at Sun so that's weird cuz I'm walking into a building which is now got this Google stuff in it and it sort of haphazard a typical sort of tilt-up Silicon Valley so I go up and they have a single office which they share they have a projector and they're projecting my bio on the equivalent of Wikipedia up again this is unusual they had lots of food in front of them and I thought okay and interesting and they start to question me and they're very interested in what I'm doing at Novell I was a see you at the time and they had decided that what I was doing it
00:30:57well made no sense at all and they wanted to make sure that I knew this so this went on for an hour and a half and it was rough and they were very sharp and I remember as I walked out of the building sinking for I haven't had that good of an argument in years and that was what intrigued me that the story by the way is the thing we were talking about were called technically called proxy cache estate accelerate the internet and they believed at the time that you didn't need them and I believe that you did after we purchased YouTube the way we handled the extraordinary growth in Gross of YouTube is we built proxy Cash's so what I like to say is they were right and then I was right so we both right is a proxy cache in this isn't going to show how ignorant I am about technology but similar to a Content delivery Network in any way I'd what is made out of
00:31:57typical thing you do simplest example is a new movie comes out and everybody wants to watch it online it makes no sense to send it all from the same place it much makes much more sense to keep local copies near you if you're in use Becca Stan he doesn't have to go all the way to Atlanta Georgia there's a copy locally and the internet is good about making those trans get copies transparent to you and keep them up-to-date and that's what that is about and YouTube is now the by far the largest such consumer of that such things in it made an enormous difference in terms of its van with Netflix would use the same thing
00:32:36what types of questions did they ask you or what made their questioning different from others it was a stimulating debate needed so because they're brilliant and because they are so technically current they can ask the really hard questions and this is something is very few Founders can do Bill Gates could do it as an example of couldn't but they could and that that told me that the team that they had assembled could really address the hard questions their position was the date that the detective argument was that there is not an imbalance in bandwidth and that was true at the time although it was not true Once video took off
00:33:23and how did they assess you as a potential leader not just a a not just your technical capabilities I'm not sure they had interviewed for about 18 months before me and they like to spend a lot of time with her people their candidate so they would go on vacation for the day or go skiing with a candidate or so forth it to judge cultural fit it became fairly quickly clear that I would be a good fit because we had a although we were different in age we have the same faculty members 18 years apart and we had a very similar technical background they were infinitely smarter than I was infinitely more current but I have been like them 20 years earlier and what did
00:34:15what did Sean see in you that he thought they needed my understanding again you'll have to ask John to my understanding is that the to venture capitalist when they had invested wanted to bring in somebody operating experience this came to be turned to adult supervision and a my understanding is part of the initial investment Sequoia and Google made this that's what triggered their recruiting when when we finally came to deal with didn't take very long cuz I've obviously I didn't even appear anywhere else I love these guys I work with them I remember one of them saying to me we don't need you now but we will need you in the future
00:34:59show understanding that my experience with growth companies with quite relevant and so I said the way we worked which worked well was they were the technical experts and what I set out to do was to build company
00:35:13and I want to definitely dig into that because he's talked about scale and systems or system at aisin early as when we discussed architecture at the beginning of the conversation and in a piece of Fortune Magazine's from a while back 2015 the quote that I have here feel free to correct it of course is my role was to manage the chaos you need to have someone to run fast and have a good product sense that was Larry and Sergey my job was to organize the world around them what were some of the systems or policies are rules anything that you put in place to help manage the chaos
00:35:55when I arrived the company was full of brilliant people but it was sort of wandering around they would have staff meetings they were very very interesting but not very structured Palmdale act at the time somebody to run all their product strategy general counsel that's so so things so what I did is I put in place just a management structure pretty straightforward so we had a meeting on Mondays where we would run the company we had a meeting on Wednesdays we would do product strategy and we had a meeting on Fridays where we would look at customers and this is organized so that the sales lead could leave town Monday night and return Thursday night to wherever he needed to go we we change that many times since but simple ways of getting an activity organized was my initial tasks the other thing is that we had to build a corporation and so we wanted to hire people who could should have grow and build
00:36:55Bill teams we had three product managers who were telar kamangar Susan with Jackie and Marissa Mayer Marissa of course I'll double it became the CEO of Yahoo Susan is the CEO of YouTube and saucer invented the ad system so these were people live in Norma's consequence but at the time they were just individual contributors so someone had to develop them we hired this fella Jonathan Rosenberg who is the co-author on trillion-dollar coach and this this may not be something worth exploring but it's come up in my in my reading so I thought it might be worth opening up and maybe there's something there could you describe or explain what the 70-20-10 model as if that's the right term to use that's correct and the question was how do we organize our resources in terms of Korra things new things at Express
00:37:55thanks so Sergei and we had an off-site and withhold management team and are still remember in Stargate got up on the board and he did some math he's a brilliant mathematician
00:38:08at the end of the math he said the right answer is 70-20-10 70% on your core business 20% on adjacent or nearby things and 10% on wild bats and he said that all of these numbers are right you need to 70% cuz you need to revenue the revenue growth you need to 20% push you need to extend your franchise and you need to 10% which is crucially important for the things that you will want to do 5 or 10 years from now and so we would measure 70-20-10 and try to make sure that the that the Urgent was not overwhelming the important to there's a good example of how it work it was circus idea it was sergey's math I took it over in a sense of I think it made perfect sense that we measured it and we ran the company that way
00:39:02and the reason why I highlight this is I believe that you can systematically manage Innovation you'll never be able to pick which of the 50 ideas are going to be the next billion-dollar Corporation is too hard but you can manage it so that when you get the shots on goal you identify them you get a chance to find them you look at them you can systematize Innovation even if you can't completely protected when Google starts to take off you have a lot of beryllium people you are starting to add structure how did you add that time course later and certainly now you have many different systems in place but in the very early days how did you manage
00:39:46the what I would imagine to be a very large volume of inbound and I would probably Landing in your inbox at that time yeah I think that that's what happens with a hyper Growth Company growing doubling every year is pretty easy it's windier quadrupling every year and now that's insane and you may you begin to make mistakes in particular when people trying to contact you if you failed actually deal with them you can create an enemy or at least annoy them so it should have bad management so things would slip through the cracks
00:40:21what are the things to know is that when you're in a high-growth situation you've got to focus on the right things it's a very very easy to get distracted in a high-growth scenario the most right thing is to make your product better
00:40:39in other words product product product product because if you have a very strong product it's relatively easy to sell it's relatively easy with a very strong product to make money from it is relatively easy to recruit people to work on it if you have a weak Problem by product is very different so so it is Google famously with a product company not anything else and that was again because of the strengths of the founders with me helping them
00:41:06and does that does that then help you for instance if you're getting making up a number a hundred it's probably more like a thousand who knows email a day to filter for product related communication or poor prioritizing for internal team first then in the external I know this is what is a very ground up but as the CEO my most important thing to do is to make the velocity of interactions faster
00:41:45so the moment I get an email I deal with it immediately which is typically the send to somebody else to deal with it so everything that lags through me is slowing its like molasses is slowing the company down so I am about spin rate as an example if you want to win the win the bike race in the marathon bike race the best way to do it is to establish a spin rated hold that spin rate constant just chug chug chug chug chug chug at the same rate that you eventually get there and you do really well so my theory of management was just run at the same high speed 7 days a week and that meant that every mail get forwarded every issue was addressed and so forth and that's her two heads down Focus I think is a key in very high growth environments you mentioned earlier having and we're going to segue to summon you alluded to have been just a moment trillion-dollar coach
00:42:45one version of weekly meetings who had Monday Running Company Wednesday product I think it was Friday customers for yourself did you also have a
00:42:59they might be on the same schedule but I'm thinking of a conversation with Jack Dorsey where he described something similar but having instead of having five different pieces of the business being discussed everyday breaking it out so their daily clear priorities whether it's the administrative organizational stuff product or otherwise for you to
00:43:25help the company maintained that spin rate did you have what did your weekly schedule look like in the might be a bad question but I just want to see if there's anything there while we initially did though the Monday Wednesday Friday but remember at that time we didn't have to travel the sales guy have to travel with the rest of us didn't as the company grew there was much more much more physical traveling so we all ultimately resolved to a Monday Tuesday structure most corporations have a Monday or A Tuesday meeting and then that allows for the rest of the week two people to travel and Walmart by the way is the inverse they have the week the managers are expected to be out in the field they fly back on Friday night and then they meet on Saturday morning after doing corporate exercises I actually says I mean physical exercise so these Gathering Traditions are very very important if I had my own way the way I would run the companies I would meet everyday at 4
00:44:24because if you operationally things happen every day and they can be quick what I noticed in the political campaigns that I've observed is it they typically have a 9 a.m. daily meeting we just kind of update and for 9 a.m. everyone kind of figure it out what the crisis will be for the day and off they go if you look at the White House the first thing that happens in most presidents he is is if there's a presidential Daily Brief which is the issues going on in the world which is typically a half an hour at 8 a.m. so for operational jobs it looks to me like if you're not meeting with your staff often often in a week you're not you're not running a tight enough at this does not mean that I was telling them what to do these were check-ins these were issue issue issue because we were talking to each other all the time we had context and then because that ends up causing you to think short-term you didn't have to have a separate process to have an off-site meeting
00:45:24kind of strategic discussion some kind of radiation around what people would like as opposed to weather currently do I have to do both and you choose for the daily meeting for p.m. instead of first thing in the morning is that right yeah but that's just that's just personal preference but I think it's one of those things where if I were to start with a new firm today the first thing to say is what is idealized meeting frequency and I think if you ask people what would work for them you would end up with a couple of meetings a week there would be organized around the life schedules and other personal commitments people have any would work it gets harder that the funnel of problem you have global companies is time zones and how do you accommodate people who are on video conference in Europe things like that
00:46:13and could you please tell me who Bill Campbell is cuz I want us to make sure we Segway there okay so Jonathan Allen and I written a book called trillion-dollar Coach Campbell isn't leasing our opinion the most successful coach in world history he was the primary coach for Google and its rise it was also the primary coach for apple and its rise along with a host of other companies and the some of the companies that he has coached have now exceeded more than 2 trillion dollars of value to give you a sense of the value that he was he helped create his background was that he was a a football coach at Columbia and we pointed out many times to build it he wasn't particularly successful although we tried very hard maybe it's cuz he was at Columbia we don't really know but he was an extraordinary coach of humans and so in my first year at Google John doerr who had play
00:47:13let me hear a Google said you need a coach and I said I don't need a coach I'm really good and he said after some back-and-forth you said will do tennis players have coaches and I said yes and then he got me I had to say okay so we mad and then the rest is history that he has just an incredible incredible in the literal sense in the incredible resume as you said he had this coaching career and then he seemingly segregated into into technology and you go down the list and you have spaces Marissa Meyer Steve Jobs Sheryl Sandberg yourself what what made him different right leg why why why it's important explain why coaching matters
00:48:08you hear all the day the I need a mentor oh by the way you need a mentor and I did my tormentors are great that's not what bill was there was a coach and more importantly he was the best coach of teams ever and why do you need a team because a company is not an individual it's a team of individuals who need coaching to achieve their objective
00:48:33so all those skills that he built over there's many years ultimately, did this enormous success that he had unfortunate he died about three years ago but I think his legacy will live on forever in the valley the the thing that he did is he understood how to coach teams of people who were themselves competitive with each other and I mention this because you would assume that if you go to a company as you get higher and higher you're dealing with a very sophisticated very educated very experienced seasoned professionals Bill know what to do will in fact not only do they not know what to do but they're all caught up in their own politics and their own Egos and they disagree with each other and they and they want to make their Mark and they want credit and so forth and a coach sorts that out in the same sense that the coach of a football team or basketball team does it's the same principle but applied to business and we were just talking about I fear we can we can dive into many different
00:49:33aspects of his coaching on we talk or talk about meetings not too long ago bill seems to have had very very clear pinions of how to start and run a meeting do you or do or call how he used to how he did that or how he recommended people do it I do and what's funny about it is that he was such an interval coach I can't tell you what ideas were mine and what ideas were hits all I can say is that we that is he and I implemented these principles to Qatar
00:50:05Wish I Was Here statement of how good a coach she really was so freaked sample meeting send to be unstructured so his advice was make a list of things you want to talk about and then start the meeting not with that list unless you're in crisis that start with trip reports and it's because people were traveling people would spend five or ten minutes we would often use Google Maps and show I went from here to here to here but then that allowed people to conversationally explain what they were worried about her what they had observed this works incredibly well cuz it humanized the organization another thing that bill did is he made you feel that he loved you by listening to you as a person and the thing I learned from Bill wood and I'm used to running fast and I'm used to Bubba blah does this go too bad that's fine goodbye right that doesn't work it doesn't work for junior employees and it doesn't work for senior employees they're human too
00:51:05just going to manage people or leave them leave the whole person how are you how is your family how was your operation what are you worried about what are your benefit life what do you think about the political situation what do you think about their grand prix and the race cars whatever it takes to get people to be human eyes turns out to be key and the difference between a coach and a manager this is important is a manager will say Tim please do this
00:51:36coach will say Tim what do you want to do and he'll carefully guide you to what you want to be to what the collective good is that function is critical imagine if we have that in our political system by which we don't today imagine if we had it in most companies all of these issues are going to be kind of marching in the same direction is it to talk about that what you want to do I'd love to look at a specific example which might be related you can correct me if it's not in 2001
00:52:14bill at Sheryl Sandberg who's in a Google what do you do here and you refused all the traditional answers until she understood the real answer he was looking for was not her responsibilities but in what way she contributed value every day did he ask you that question or why was it important for him to ask that question either one of those rules was to get past the slogans and with experience Executives people who've been Executives for a while you know sort of 10 years of Executives they say they're in their mid-to-late thirties or forties they've done it for a while to pretty executive at it to get pretty good at giving you the marketing answers I'm trying to fulfill my life I want to make the world a better place and those marketing phrases he thought were a waste of time. Because you don't use them to motivate people but because they don't give you precisionist what you should be doing
00:53:13so every day you would get up and your job is to do something precisely that you wanted to do that would make the world a better place and serve the the shareholders or your boss or would have it whatever whatever it is you need to be able to articulate that as a principal because if you could articulated to bill you could articulate it to anybody but he was very good at that what do you want to do and what are you doing
00:53:38she also mentioned
00:53:42political factors and differences of opinion how did he handle making decisions or facilitating decisions when people for not meeting I die let's just say in a board meeting he was on a lot of boards see if two people who fundamentally disagree or there's there's a little bit of a loggerhead what what would Bill do how would you handle that well so the Royal we had about meetings was that there was a decision maker in the room but the decision maker in the room could not make the decision in the room until after other people have been heard it said there was a protocol for that so let's say that I'm the decision-maker and you and Maria are having a big argument so what bill would say look guys when we come back with a a joint proposal and then he would talk to the individuals and see if he could coach them to a common agreement even if he couldn't get them to a common agreement.
00:54:42if they had participated in the discussion had been heard and saw the decisions being made allowed them to overcome their embarrassment or Envy or unhappiness that they have lost to go back and fight for a win
00:54:57and when you go went public in 2004 Bill recommended that you step aside as chairman and remain CEO but then he made sure you would get reinstated as chairman later what was his thinking behind that or and how did he pitch that to you there was a complicated discussion about independence involving dual-class sort of a technical matter and they had come to this idea and I thought well I haven't I've done a good job right I felt I had take I took it personally I took it wrong
00:55:31it was my pride that that got to me and so he immediately recognized that this was a pride problem right so he said look
00:55:43I get it I understand it I think this is best for the company and I in the next year I'll work to make this reverse in the right way and his credibility with me by then this is we started working 3 years earlier was so high that I naturally said okay
00:56:00now imagine if I done something stupid and allowed my pride to get ahead of me right said that's the key thing he did is he understood when people were hurt their egos were hurt or they felt that they had been dismissed or not not understood and he could mot he could not not mollify them but but understand them and get them to say there's a bigger goal here he said Eric there's a bigger goal here then you
00:56:29and that works right and 18 years later it still works when she first had two teeth first come into the picture when did you use it three years earlier so what was you do remember your first meeting with all I had met him when I was at son and he at the time worked at Intuit he the Mansion at son was trying to hire him in to sign but he said no and I remember people saying to him he's the hardest-working executive we've ever met and they described him as flying to Japan for a one-hour meeting and then flying right back which I thought was in saying that was that was his work ethic I didn't do nothing else about his capabilities to in John door called me and said you need a coach I said yeah yeah yeah I'm pretty smart guy and then he convinced me that I had to have a coach but once I sat down with Bill I knew I needed the coach and the way I knew was that
00:57:27he had been working with another executive who worked for me at the time inside of Google in this other executive had a health problem a very bad cancer problem and he did not he Bill did not tell me and I thought if Bill wouldn't tell me that then bill must be able to keep confidences he must be a person who is going to be on my team keep secrets of the company protect us and so forth so it's interesting when you meet somebody you kind of Judge them are they sincere are they serious are they professional and Bill was that and I should say that the first project we gave bill was to get our product management functions going I mentioned the three product management people getting those structure working with him to hire people and it worked flawlessly
00:58:23how long how long did it take to implement that that first task I'm just curious how he went about once he had marching orders on something like that or head disc jointly decided with someone like yourself on the more Chambers Market marching order it was sort of we would have a chat and he would say what do you think about this and I said that's great why don't you see if you can make something happen there and an example would be that one day we decided to get rid of all of the executives inside of engineering
00:58:54because we just weren't happy with their performance is called the disorder and one executive ended up with a hundred direct reports I told Bill go work on that problem try to figure out how we're going to manage a hundred people that work flawlessly right that actually worked and protiviti increase it was right decision from our Founders once again exactly correct but that's an example we were responded with the founders wanted and we did so dramatically and quickly how does one person manage 100 or is that is the answer they don't and there's some alternate system at play me what I can't not ask people will will will harass me if I don't ask you to remember that that I used the word manage but what I really meant was lead right so the key thing to do was to get this one one person is in his bill coughran by the way it was incredibly talented at managing large groups get him to be able to do this is the only time I know in history of a person successfully man
00:59:54such a large flat organization headquarters all of us people are now heads of major operations within Google so again their development with with Bill Corinth leadership really made a difference there were many many other examples with Bill and I worked into a structure where I would meet with him once a week and he had this habit he was a hugger and when I say hugger I mean he would hug people on the street right so when he would walk into an office he would light up his smile everyone was smile every will get a hug and we would sit down to my case I would go to his office I would have to hug a secretary he would have to hug me he'd have to have your secretary and then I would sit down and he would have written behind the Whiteboard v words
01:00:41and those were the things would prompt the conversation and I would ask him to just talk and he would over minute many minutes talk about what he had heard and what he saw and then I would say what we do this why don't we do that it worked incredibly effective way he worked on a similar basis with Steve Jobs he worked with Steve's every day until his death including on his health and he would receive he would go for walks when Steve could walk he visited him in the hospital you were talking on the phone he is house was very near Steve Jobs his house so he would literally walk over and serve help helping manage Apple in the same way
01:01:23I am going to ask a question that involves Steve but before I do that what what might there be on the board and among those five for its what types of touch with the first name of an executive at was inevitably trouble over something they will be Selma theme like Revenue there will be some products that it was in trouble that we are having issues with it with some deal or a customer that you had heard about he want to make sure I knew about that kind of thing is literally one word and how did he structure his thinking when he would I mean Europe as as you've mentioned in as is clear in this conversation very structured highly analytical how would he structure that that talking because he was fun of Ali-A coach humanist he would talk about how the people felt and he would predict what they were going to do so here's an example we would have an executive that we weren't we weren't sure if they were doing a good job or not should we replace
01:02:23should we put them in a different job that kind of thing that was where he was heavily involved he was so good that I would have him do most of the compensation issues if we had Boardman and come up he would call the board members before the board meeting to see if there were any concerns to ruffle any feathers anticipate if there was some message that I wanted sent ahead of time like I said tell what are you guys let them know that I'm worried about something and maybe they'll have some idea so people could prepare she's the perfect partner to anticipate problems who to the same sense that he was a coach of the team if he will blow me or with me he was also coach of the board he played the same role on the apple board and I know because I was on the apple board for 4 years with him as the coach and board member so glad you brought that up because I'm looking at a piece from recode.net to Kara Swisher put this up and care for the people who don't know she's been on the podcast but it is
01:03:23it's quite feared among some in the Intex circles because she has incredible sources and she's very direct and very honest with her messaging SOS we can cut people but she put out a piece after Bill's passing that is one of the warmest things probably the warmest thing I've ever seen her put out and in the peace she she cites a passage from a Fortune Magazine 2014 which is when he stepped down from the airport and this is this is part of it and then I have a follow-up question so the highest-profile danger zone was his dual role in the apple board and Advising Schmidt in Google quote Steve would say if you're helping them you're hurting me you would yell at Miracles Campbell whose normal banter typically needs to be sanitized from those Publications I'd say I can't do HTML come on I'm just coaching them and how to run their company better and quote
01:04:23can you do both roles for years how does someone pull that off and that is so remarkable the quote is correct and Cara is correct in that matter bill was not involved in the product to the product decisions as much as he was in the coaching and he was careful not to cross the boundaries and he was also not on the Google board he was only on the apple board so again in hindsight I was sort of hard to believe but somehow we all trusted him on both sides even sure I think got tired of the of the tension but from my perspective he was so honest and so direct that there was no question he could continue you asked about how did he work with people and I think that he did a couple things that were profound his rule was there would be no gap between statements and fact
01:05:19that you had to be relentlessly honest and candid and direct if there was any kind of eliding of the truth he would know it and he would nail you and he was Shelby Savory salty and his language that kept everybody kind of on and honest
01:05:38and because of that you both trusted him you knew that there wasn't descends on said and he was also a very good listener so
01:05:48he think he did what we call freeform listening he would literally he listen with full and undivided attention he wasn't doing his email and checking his iPhone and those were saying you had his complete attention as a human being and if you were rambling he would let you ramble and I can remember repeating myself seven or eight times I said have I just repeated myself but he said it's okay he understood as a coach that I had to repeat it enough times to believe it and how would he how was he able to smell vs or stress test statements so that he could tell when people were
01:06:30bending the truth or omitting details I think for one day he had this massive experience at doing this and so you get really good at that checking it but remember he also had many many sources so we would have Executives they would try to do in and around around Bill and they would try to start us should have junoco back on message you know this is what I did and this is why I didn't go with say I'm not sure let's go through that again and then if the person wouldn't tell Bill the truth he would cut them off and he was pretty ruthless he would come in and say we can't trust this person we can't trust this person we need to get them out of here or we can move him out of that job or whatever he was very very very committed to the goals of the organization to think about the coach in a foot in choosing a football analogy
01:07:25the goal is not to have the quarterback run the have the longest ball throw the goal is to win the game now it as a byproduct the quarterback has this amazing Shima that's great right but it but the moment the quarterback gets confused right that we've got a problem so you got when you're in the position of coach it's all about the team it's all about winning in a business is relatively straightforward you have a set of shared goals which are you know we all agreed with the goals of the firm our bill was very very good at keeping everybody on that message
01:08:01I'm reading a quote here that I'm in front of me that was something that Bill parently said to the CEO of Chegg Dan rosensweig and hear here comes the blast that relates to much what you just said I don't take cash I don't take stock and I don't take shit so so I could shoot two questions to have two questions related to that maybe more of the first is how is he compensated he refused compensation I mean he explained that he had done really well and his previous job and this is his give back to the industry right he wanted to do this and he didn't want to be confused by money he wanted to work with people on the principles that he cared about
01:08:55wild Suki this was his giving back I mean decades and he had made enough money you know from his perspective we did create a foundation for football players which people donated to in his honor which is right he was very happy about but he's a good example of one of these people whose he was very motivated about the happiness and success of people he was happiest when we were winning and working as a team that was his that was his income that was his success and his personal life he coached many Mets coach soccer he coached he work with an awful lot of young football players he was in his civic duty as principled as he was in his job coaching companies like Apple and Google and it also strikes me that I don't take cash and I'll take stock and I don't take shit or or somewhat interrelated in the sense
01:09:55if you're not incentivised to maximizers of economic return by biting your lip that
01:10:04could encourage you to be much more forthcoming about not taking shit it's alright the other any other examples of
01:10:12two binary lines that he had or things that he would not accept that you would work the people and then the problem if you think about it as a coach a football game using football coach analogy if you got the wrong player in the wrong position you need to work on that so over and over again is this the best person that we can get to work on this problem is there an alternative Choice what do we need to do to get this performed this person performing better in their job and then he would work on the problem what happens in businesses everybody wants to talk with problem he wants to talk about the people and getting the right people in the right place
01:10:53how did he fire people or encourage people to fire people what was the approach
01:11:00he was a we would come to a decision pretty quickly that it wasn't going to work out and then it sort of Warrant because he had high credibility even have high credibility with people who were in the process of losing their jobs and so he would go and say look this is not working out and I will help you in your next role and that made an enormous difference which of course he did
01:11:24can you think of any particular and if it's possible to give
01:11:32any any historical examples of you really really helpful any particular hard challenges that will help you through are there any moments that look back like that that they were particularly stressful or agonizing her difficult Authority that he helped you through well we we mention this going public role of for me he was very helpful with the company going public which is a big moment in a corporation history helping us with a venture capitalist thinking through what the functions were cuz your course he'd done it many many times but I think it is there was no great event it was one of those things where he would be came in the fabric was so important to us that he became we started at having him come to my staff meeting
01:12:20initially he been in outside Coty actually attended our staff anywhere you typically didn't say very much you would make notes and then of course later would go and work on issues that seem to come up he was very helpful when there are began to be tensions between Apple and Google and because he knew both sides he would sit there there there were serious disputes between Stephen some of the Google Executives over some of the issues in Android versus iPhone for example and those issues had to do with who could do what and intellectual property and other kinds of things in the he got people to talk to each other they wouldn't have otherwise been able to speak to there's a case we're having
01:13:04credibility with both groups was extremely helpful you said getting people to talk with one another who might not otherwise chat when I was one of the bullet point facts about Bill that I'm in front of me is he taught Marissa Mayer than CEO of Yahoo how to sit quietly during a meeting and let less senior people arrive at a decision are there other are there any particular approaches
01:13:37or coaching recommendations that he would that he's made to you or that you've seen him make two other people more than once that fall into that same category of what will I give an example of that I would get worked up over some issue and I would violate my own rules so my own rules are to listen you no reason and then make him make a decision collectively and if we can't make it collectively then I'll force a decision but every once in a while I'd be sufficiently worked up or upset that I would just blurted out the answer and he would inevitably say come on you know better than that and so that's an example where a coach you know because he's seen me operating he says across the line there were some of his workplace or work days last week rituals if any come to mind
01:14:31he would get up at 5:30 in the morning he would be on the gym from 6 till 7 and then so he was an early riser he had he coached soccer at 3 or 4 in the afternoon so he would have to go and have family commitments so he was typically be in the office from say 8 till 2 ish and I would go coach soccer quiz we all work much later than that we would call him but he free sample believe in doing one thing well do when he was coaching he wouldn't answer the phone can you imagine that today right from CJ asked me or whatever and he wouldn't respond to text cuz he thought that that was an interruption and what he was doing so he was one of these principled people of this is what I'm working on this is what I'm working on this deserves my full attention I'm worried that were losing that style which I value a great deal what what does the what are the first 60 to 90 minutes of
01:15:31they look like out of curiosity and you've what about your Routine Morning Routine look like during the week but I think like what I will tell you with let me tell you how Bill and I worked it out
01:15:44his his structure of life was Monday through Friday you just running around with your head cut off you know as fast you can make things move and his rule was that on Saturday mornings when you wake up what is typically quiet that's the time to sit down and actually think about what happened in the week go through everything and get yourself organized what's your week like what's your month like and take however long you take to think just in your own head am I using my time the most effectively and so I tried to do that everyday in the sense that before anything else that happens once I'm awake and up and running I try to say is this the best use of my day what am I missing what do I need to get done what did I forget to do yesterday that kind of thing
01:16:36and do you have a certain boot-up sequence that is your default most mornings when you wake up at the same time each morning I noticed the seems pretty quick to the end but I'm I'm curious if you have any
01:16:54if you have a set morning routine at this point when I'm in one place for a while yes I typically get up and you know eat something hold on. Recently I guess I've I've tried I'm now trying intermittent fasting to see if that makes a difference but. But in any case the first thing most people that I know do is there online right so they're checking the news or seeing what happened and it ended the tech industry so Dynamic the stuff really does happen overnight and you really do you really do need to know what happened what are the tricks is try to focus on your own news before we have Global News global news is so addictive is like oh my God and all of this happened or whatever you can waste all your time so try to focus on getting your own world in order what do I care about today what do I want to work on a my happy with what I'm doing today
01:17:46if if you were giving advice to someone looking for a coach a business coach how would you tell them to vet candidates or what to look for
01:18:01your coaching is a special skill it's like writing there are people who are great writers there people who are great coaches and there's more than one right so that the first question is how is this a person who lights up a room is this a person who has that natural Charisma that people want to listen to is this this person who we can get to be part of our team and then I think it's a question of hopefully people will follow the recommendations in our book about how to actually do it but the coaching is highly highly personal thing right when you have a great coach you love your coach can't go back to Athletics people talk about their coaches in reverential terms because they get them to perform so well
01:18:46let me hear I want to ask Shakira's just a little bit and ask you a few questions about effectively rapid fire questions and I like to ask a lot of people who are on the podcast in the end will wrap up in just a little bit but before I get to those what are you hoping that intermittent fasting will do what benefits are you or are you going to drive and how do you do it well so the answer is no arguments there are not fact that we evolved as hunter-gatherers where we had relatively low amounts of food for long periods of time so fast it was part of being a hunter gatherer
01:19:32and that our bodies are in fact healthier and better when they eat there they're not continuous grazing and so there's there's a whole school of thought that says that the best thing to do is to not eat for like 16 hours and I need a lunch or dinner or just a dinner things like that and people report that their energy is equal or better that they lose weight that they feel better the science is still not resolved on this but it's worth checking out
01:19:59yeah for people interested or if he certainly sounds like you've done your homework and Peter attia is an MD and Dominic dagostino handful of folks out there have some really good literature exploring the benefits of fasting both intermittent as you're describing say 16 hours and then looking at more Extended Stay 3 + day fasts with data that they're tracking with Ketone monitors and 19, and so on. Just jump into a few of these Greta at let me just add that you're the one of the great Scrooge's of our lives today is the amount of sugar that everybody's eating and sugar in the form of carbohydrates and so forth so experimenting with these low carb diets and this whole thing might be good for your longevity as her leave your short-term health
01:20:55yeah absolutely lots lots to say there but I'll fall save my my long-winded soapbox for another time do you have any books that you have gifted the most to other people and Angie bid I'm certainly you have your own books right the new digital age how Google works and now actually dollar coach at outside of those books are there any that you've gifted a lot to other people I think the one that has had the biggest impact on me and the ones that I've given the most of our people has been angels of our better nature and angels of our better nature is a 700-page book on death and it's written by a brilliant Harvard Professor who talks at Great length about death rates in The Human Condition and he says a lot of time talking about
01:21:51what happened 200 300 400 500 years ago and when you finish the book with takes a long time you conclude that the world is in a much better place than it is that has been the past that 1000 years ago the average man died in a war in the average woman died in pregnancy in their twenties and that a child born today has a very high likelihood in almost all parts of the world to live to a natural natural old age that's an extraordinary statement and that's why the people who run around saying all the world's falling apart we've never had it this bad that's just not true and the data says it's not true
01:22:35and that's Steven Pinker for people who want to look that up and it is it is a big book 832 Pages du recommended and give that book because it delivers hope in a world where the news favors catastrophizing or is are there other reasons that you give it to people
01:22:58I see my own this is my opinion now I think what's happened is we're surrounded by information the information that is emotional and negative occupies too much of our brains I'll get it crowds out optimism we've seen an increase in depression anxiety and so forth which I think is to some degree connected to this of this fire hose of negative information and a person who didn't know would say oh it is the worst part worst time in the world and I would say to them think that imagine you're the father of an 18 year old boy in 1943 who's just been sent to the German front or Worse imagine the your father of 18 year old boy in Germany in 1943
01:23:51two again people lose perspective because of the immediacy of fact and also because there's so much coming out us
01:24:00it but I want to talk about this this may not be directly related this could be an overstatement but just depression anxiety darker and more difficult times has to say and understanding that on the macro-level I completely agree with you if if you read this book it certainly can look at the data we are in a spectacular time for yourself just to humanize you a little bit of people who were listening because we've talked about maybe it's success has many of the the company's you been involved with do you have any favorite failures and by that I mean failures or difficult really difficult times that set the stage for later success has possibly or taught you something that later ended up having tremendous value for me the the key
01:25:00monat in my professional career was the decision to go to Novell from Sun and then the decision to leave Novell and when I was in Norville which was a hardcore turn around a difficult business lots of problems that's where a lot of the skills that I had not developed when I was at Sun were developed you don't really know how a good leader you are until you face a really hard challenge but more importantly John door would never have recruited me to Google from son cuz it would have been appropriate for a board member to the fact that I had gone to no avail gave me the training ground it when I got to Google and there were things that I didn't like I would call it I would say it I would push it another thing that happened was I was my hubby is airplane flying and I have been training in a small Jet and Jet training because it's life and death they really push you to make decisions and take command
01:25:57and for me the jet training they actually one point they had a co-pilot and they told the co-pilot to be incredibly unhelpful without telling me that in order to train me to be to take command in a difficult situation in the similar so those all contributed to my development as a strong-willed leader whatever path you get there you got to be willing to take charge and you got to be willing to make decisions with dill would say is somebody's got to make a decision have an appropriate process and make a decision and keep going how did you first notice that your co-pilot was being unhelpful and how did you respond to that well I'm used to having good co-pilots and when they start giving you information that doesn't make sense and now you got your flying and your crisis and he's giving you mail information you get annoyed and so for me it took awhile to figure out that there was something wrong
01:26:58because I'm so trusting and one of the things that that that in this particular co-pilots in are they called me was you know what's right
01:27:08use every piece of your body right your hands or eyes you're thinking your experience to get yourself out of the situation and if there's something going wrong over here then if it's not if not life critical deal with it later and that prioritization really help sew-in in there were many examples in early Google where there were choices that we would have around how we setup Park revenue systems are accounting or what we took to business or so forth but I knew the answers because I've been through the setting of Al and I understood that those decisions to be made in the most conservative way I can survive in the sense of least aggressive from an accounting perspective
01:27:48you were discussing Bill earlier and weirdest I should take describing and it seemed to me at least if I'm reading between the lines that he had an incredible intuitive sense and it is you mentioned to be a humanist bent that would lead him to focus on how other people are feeling in the people before the problem is you have super powers it would see him in the D
01:28:19hyper analytical development framework and systems and so on have you found Sprint since your exposure to the Arts which I know you have quite a lot of has aided you in a business sense as well or those two separate domains for you is the analytical the primary driver in business is there a place for the more intuitive
01:28:47as an aside my Wikipedia page says that I'm a world of art collector and that's false and I I left it in because I use it as an example to say that not everything you read on the internet is true you do have involved with art though I want to answer your question I didn't want to to not tell the truth
01:29:13so I think when you have a hyper analytical person which I am and many people my industry are you can be tone deaf
01:29:24and anything that you can do to increase your understanding if you're like me of how people are going to react to things how people will perceive emotionally what you're doing is helpful when we started a Google we would just throw things across the just throw things out we didn't worry about what impact they had maybe they work maybe they didn't but we fairly quickly learned that we had to have a whole release process which again bill and I put in place we would judge free sample how will this be perceived should we run this test right what is the moral framework of it so businesses are more than just products at facts there about people and emotion and morality and those we had very good values from the founders in that regard but operationally it was important for me and everyone to remember that these things have affect people's lives you have to really think about it
01:30:19how how would Bill already how did he I don't know if he did think about the word success or what that meant to him or to or what it should mean to other people have any any window into that what he lived his life the way I'm talking about him now so he was a principal person who have high integrity he expected it from others that he thought that a successful life was one well live that were consistent with those principles and that where you could have a purpose that you cared about that kind of his job as a coach was to get everyone to that ticks feel that they had achieved that while collectively getting the team to have that feeling I will tell you that there's nothing more fun than having a very fast-moving team where everyone's rowing in the same direction right that feeling of power and that feeling of excitement and a feeling of energy and so he said
01:31:19I just have a new idea hay I will can we do this hey can I do I want to make this phone call is that okay is it sure crate bababababa right there's nothing like that in my life
01:31:30before after
01:31:35this is a this is sometimes a difficult rapid fire questions of the answer doesn't need to be rapid fire but the vehicle the question I try to keep sure it is which is and if it doesn't go anywhere that's totally fine to the the question is us if you could put a anything on a billboard metaphorically speaking to reach billions of people non-commercial a word question a quote a recommendation and image anyting does anything come to mind that you would want in a billions of people to know to take stock of I guess for me it software in analytical thinking
01:32:19I am a believer that the next 50 years human society will have incredibly complicated human systems took you think about the things we deal with everyday the judicial system the political system the prison system the traffic system would have you they were architected in a world where we didn't have a lot of data and we didn't have a lot of software we could really measure everything and I think a lot of those systems are going to get very very thoroughly designed and if you're going to design their systems then design basement outcomes you care about us in prison systems are you care more about punishment or recidivism as an example in in the economic systems do you care more about Revenue growth or job growth I would recommend the latter cuz jobs RI identity for everybody so I would prefer an economic system which maximized job-creation over total revenue
01:33:18so the measurement systems in the analytics so that it's her software and analytical systems that are buildable now should allow us to have the world we want to we care more about one group or another now our political system which will vary by country need to allow us to make those decisions but there is hope for people who are subject to punishment that don't fit the crime and economic penalties that don't fit the work to get address through these two these programs systematically we know for example that we can identify by us now in ways we could before two people who have bias used against them people who've been prejudiced against people who are the victims of these terrible things we have a way now of both measuring it and I think eliminating it with good systems Tucson so I think for the next 50 years.
01:34:18narratives going to be who's designing these systems how they work what are the values that are in them how do we measure them and much of the work that Google does and I do now is related to using artificial intelligence and machine learning to try to build the systems to be more effective against the goals that our country wants thank you!
01:34:44I think this is a good place to start to wrap up and this has been
01:34:49very fun for me so thank you again for taking the time and a highly rated highly highly recommend people check out to another coach subtitle leadership Playbook of silicon Valley's Bill Campbell which are co-authored with Jonathan Rosenberg and Allen Eagle bill has been on my mind for so long I mean for decades at this point and I'm so much regret that I never had the opportunity to meet him in person and have waited for a book like this to come out and credible that it finally ends I'm I'm I'm thrilled that that that you all put this together and that people will have an opportunity to look over the shoulder of people like yourself in like this this who's who list of entrepreneurs as they were coached by this incredible human being not just coach not just business mind but human being named Bill cam
01:35:49and people can find more I have certainly feel free to add anything here but they can find more about it at trillion-dollar coach.com they can wave hello to you at Eric Schmidt on Twitter LinkedIn they can find you quite easily and also on Facebook Eric Schmidt 76 and I will include links to everything we've discussed in the show notes I'll talk to you have any last words pardon comments recommendations for evil anything you would like to say before we wrap up on the show when I think of the way you've communicated the ideas and the principles you've you've established the would love you because of what you stand for what's interesting about are booked until is that Jonathan and Alan and I started this book
01:36:43just as a thank you to somebody who'd been our coach and mentor and had a huge impact but we discovered was it there was essentially no literature on how to coach teams in business there was no there were no facts there were no analogies it was no way of talking about it so what we discovered is that the principles that he taught us directly are the universal principles of managing teams right from football to business and everyone needs a coach
01:37:15Yep this is very very true I didn't actually get a coach in this capacity until maybe 2 years ago and certainly for people listening even if you have a small organization even if you are your organization as a single person work with contractors for instance having a coach even to Simply hold you accountable and pinned force you to clarify your thinking is of it is so leveraged invaluable I'm just thrilled that that you guys have put this book out to thank you again I really appreciate you taking the time not only to put together the book but also to share some of your Lessons Learned in this conversation
01:38:03OK Google thank you very much Tim I appreciate it and everybody listening I you can find links to everything in the show notes as per usual at 10. Blog forward slash podcast and until next time thank you for listening
01:38:15hey guys this is Tim again just a few more things before you take off number one this is five bullet Friday do you want to get a short email for me and what do you enjoy getting a short enough for me every Friday is that provides a little morsel of fun for the weekend and five Fridays every short email rice share the coolest things I've found or that I've been pondering over the week that could include favorite new albums that have discovered it could include gizmos and Gadgets in all sorts of weird shit that I've somehow dug up in the other world of the esoteric as I do it could include favorite articles that I have read and that I've shared with my close friends for instance and it's very short it's just a little tiny bite of goodness before you head off for the weekend so if you want to receive that check it out just go to four hour work week., that's four hour work week. Com all spelled out and just drop in your email and you will get the very next one and if you sign up I hope you enjoy
01:39:17this episode of the Tim Ferriss show was brought to you by LinkedIn the right hire to make a huge impact on your business the wrong higher can crater business and I have seen example after example from thousands of my readers at a minimum where they've told me stories of how finding the right person at the right time and in some cases not even asking what should I do for asking who should I find because that person can help me determine what exactly to do more intelligently that had a chance to hire to such people in the last year that has just made my business take a Quantum Leap Forward and my complexity in my personal and business life get cut dramatically miss a simplification cannot you think a lot about hiring and I think a lot about hiring and it is a skill that I've had to learn it is important to find the right person but where to find that person
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