TRANSCRIPT 🔗
WEBVTT
1
00:00:00.160 --> 00:00:04.519
Hey, everyone, Welcome to season
four of The Shit That Happens to Me
2
00:00:04.639 --> 00:00:09.240
Podcast. I'm your host, Stacy
Nie. I've been away for a while.
3
00:00:09.480 --> 00:00:13.679
Did you miss me? I really
missed you all so much. I
4
00:00:13.720 --> 00:00:20.320
was on a little hiatus doing another
podcast called Psychoanalyzing the Patient, which was
5
00:00:20.879 --> 00:00:25.800
a companion podcast to the Hulu show
The Patient. It was so much fun
6
00:00:26.280 --> 00:00:30.079
with my co host Lindsey Jones.
We hope to be doing more in the
7
00:00:30.160 --> 00:00:34.759
near future, so stay tuned for
that. But now let's talk about some
8
00:00:34.840 --> 00:00:41.119
shit. Emmy Award winning sound designer
and sound effects editor James David Reading the
9
00:00:41.320 --> 00:00:45.799
Third is on the show today.
You may know him from shows like The
10
00:00:45.840 --> 00:00:50.520
Americans and The Queen's Gambit. I
met James when he was a guest on
11
00:00:50.640 --> 00:00:55.200
Psychoanalyzing the Patient. He has done
numerous shows and films in the past,
12
00:00:55.439 --> 00:01:00.000
and I was thrilled that he was
willing to talk to me today for episod
13
00:01:00.039 --> 00:01:03.799
SO seventy five, Season four of
The Shit That Happens to Me Podcast.
14
00:01:04.560 --> 00:01:10.640
He tells us some really interesting stories
today, like about how they get the
15
00:01:10.879 --> 00:01:17.400
sound effects of bodily functions on different
shows, and how the sound of a
16
00:01:17.519 --> 00:01:23.040
t rex made us way into a
very serious documentary. So just a reminder,
17
00:01:23.200 --> 00:01:27.200
subscribe, rate, and review this
podcast, The Shit that Happens to
18
00:01:27.239 --> 00:01:33.079
Me Podcast, Share with your friends, tell everyone you know, and now
19
00:01:33.159 --> 00:01:38.200
onto the show. Shit happens,
bad shit, good shit, crazy shit,
20
00:01:38.519 --> 00:01:41.879
and it usually happens when we least
expect it. So tuned into The
21
00:01:41.920 --> 00:01:46.040
Shit that Happens to Me Podcast and
hear me and everyone I meet tell their
22
00:01:46.120 --> 00:01:51.319
shitty stories. You'll laugh, you'll
cry. You probably won't cry. Why
23
00:01:51.319 --> 00:01:55.400
would you cry? These are mostly
funny stories. You'll learn a few lessons,
24
00:01:55.959 --> 00:01:59.359
probably not. It's definitely not that
kind of podcast, but you will
25
00:01:59.400 --> 00:02:04.280
have a great time. Honestly,
you can't make this shit up. Hi,
26
00:02:04.400 --> 00:02:08.319
everyone, welcome back to the Ship
that Happens to Me Podcast. We
27
00:02:08.439 --> 00:02:13.719
are back after a brief hiatus while
I had a little fun on the side
28
00:02:14.280 --> 00:02:20.840
doing a new podcast called Psychoanalyzing the
Patient, which is a Hulu show.
29
00:02:20.960 --> 00:02:24.719
The Patient did a companion podcast for
that, so if you haven't listened to
30
00:02:24.759 --> 00:02:30.039
that, you should definitely go check
that out after you listen to me today.
31
00:02:30.599 --> 00:02:36.039
So for our seventy fifth episode,
I've been doing this podcast for three
32
00:02:36.120 --> 00:02:42.319
over three years. Seventy five episodes
I have on Emmy Award winning sound designer
33
00:02:42.400 --> 00:02:47.039
and sound effects editor James David reading
the third. I am so excited to
34
00:02:47.080 --> 00:02:52.000
have him here. He has worked
on some of my favorite television shows,
35
00:02:52.039 --> 00:02:58.360
including The Queen's Gambit, The Americans, Thirty Rock, Alaska Daily, and
36
00:02:58.879 --> 00:03:05.080
most recently The Patient. So James
was a guest on Psychoanalyzing the Patient and
37
00:03:05.319 --> 00:03:10.360
hinted during that conversation that he had
many crazy stories to tell. So I
38
00:03:10.439 --> 00:03:15.520
reached out and here he is.
Welcome, James, thank you, thank
39
00:03:15.520 --> 00:03:21.240
you for having me. Stacy.
How you doing today? Doing pretty good?
40
00:03:21.319 --> 00:03:23.280
You know. I've had a couple
of weeks off, which has been
41
00:03:23.400 --> 00:03:28.759
nice to sort of regroup. I
haven't had a break in about a year,
42
00:03:29.439 --> 00:03:34.280
so it was kind of nice to
sort of regroup and refresh and everything.
43
00:03:34.280 --> 00:03:37.280
And I actually go back into the
studio tomorrow for a couple of days
44
00:03:37.879 --> 00:03:43.680
to do another episode of Alaska Daily. Really, I'm so excited because I
45
00:03:43.719 --> 00:03:49.560
was watching that show and then it
ended and it was on a cliffhanger,
46
00:03:49.599 --> 00:03:53.879
I might add, so it's coming
back. Yeah, that was the mid
47
00:03:53.960 --> 00:04:00.680
season break. I think they start
airing new episodes in February. They're finishing
48
00:04:00.719 --> 00:04:04.479
shooting now. I think actually they
finished last week. They finished shooting and
49
00:04:04.960 --> 00:04:11.400
we're doing episode seven of season one
starting tomorrow, and then we'll finish up
50
00:04:11.400 --> 00:04:14.520
the season in January and February,
just as the new episodes start airing.
51
00:04:14.719 --> 00:04:18.800
So oh good, I'm so excited. I'm also I'm going to Alaska in
52
00:04:18.920 --> 00:04:26.720
July, so I'm really appreciating also, just like you know, the location
53
00:04:26.759 --> 00:04:30.079
and everything, so that's great.
Alaska is Alaska is gorgeous. I have
54
00:04:30.160 --> 00:04:33.800
family that lives in Fairbanks, and
I went when I was in high school
55
00:04:33.879 --> 00:04:40.800
and it is such an amazing place
to me. We got to go hiking
56
00:04:41.040 --> 00:04:45.360
and climbed up mountains, and my
cousins have these what they call campsites,
57
00:04:45.399 --> 00:04:48.920
but they have log cabins on them, but they're miles outside of civilization,
58
00:04:49.079 --> 00:04:51.639
just in the woods, and the
only
Load full transcript
way to get to one of their
59
00:04:51.680 --> 00:04:56.879
cabins is via riverboat, and the
other one you can only get to via
60
00:04:57.079 --> 00:05:02.399
a TV. And it was is
such a cool experience. So oh it
61
00:05:02.439 --> 00:05:08.079
sounds wonderful. I can't wait.
Thank you, thank you. So um.
62
00:05:09.639 --> 00:05:16.839
Maybe first you can tell the listeners
exactly what a sound designer and sound
63
00:05:16.839 --> 00:05:24.639
effects editor does sure. So when
you watch any sort of media, especially
64
00:05:24.680 --> 00:05:30.160
with picture, all the sounds in
there are somehow controlled, and part of
65
00:05:30.199 --> 00:05:33.360
my job is controlling those sounds.
On a television show, the only thing
66
00:05:33.360 --> 00:05:38.079
that is captured live, or the
only thing that they're trying to capture live,
67
00:05:38.240 --> 00:05:42.279
is the dialogue from the actor's performance. But everything else we pretty much
68
00:05:42.279 --> 00:05:48.639
add in afterwards, including ambiances,
birds, wind, leaves, water,
69
00:05:49.199 --> 00:05:55.800
We put in all the door opens
and closes, cars running, you know,
70
00:05:55.959 --> 00:06:00.800
dogs barking outside, dogs barking inside. We control all of that,
71
00:06:00.839 --> 00:06:05.800
and by sound design, we're designing
the way that audio affects your visualization.
72
00:06:06.759 --> 00:06:12.959
Audio plays a big part in our
perception of the world, and we're sort
73
00:06:12.959 --> 00:06:16.639
of manipulating that so that you believe
that this fake world on television is real,
74
00:06:17.800 --> 00:06:23.279
and so that that's probably the easiest
way I can explain it without sort
75
00:06:23.279 --> 00:06:28.879
of getting too technical and getting too
audio geeky. Well, I mean,
76
00:06:29.120 --> 00:06:34.199
I don't. I didn't know anything
about audio, and I am still not
77
00:06:34.279 --> 00:06:40.439
an expert at all, not even
a novice, But I was really fascinated
78
00:06:40.480 --> 00:06:45.920
to hear about all the ways in
which audio is added after the fact.
79
00:06:46.439 --> 00:06:49.480
So one of the stories that you
told us well. One of the questions
80
00:06:49.480 --> 00:06:55.839
that I asked you about being on
the patient was all of the times that
81
00:06:56.439 --> 00:06:59.560
I'm sorry to bring this up again, but it's I think one of the
82
00:06:59.600 --> 00:07:03.720
funny things to talk about is how
Donald Gleason kept going into the bathroom and
83
00:07:03.959 --> 00:07:09.759
peeing, and so we were asking
about did he really pee in the toilet?
84
00:07:10.040 --> 00:07:12.680
How did you get that sound of
peeing in the toilet? And that
85
00:07:13.399 --> 00:07:17.199
was all added afterwards in various different
ways. Some of it wasn't even peeing
86
00:07:17.399 --> 00:07:25.040
correct correct the peace sound for the
patient. Some of it was peen.
87
00:07:25.199 --> 00:07:28.879
None of it was Donald's peen.
None of
it was done on set.
88
00:07:29.959 --> 00:07:33.879
It was all done afterwards. There's
recordings that I have from around my house.
89
00:07:34.759 --> 00:07:38.920
My daughter and I also took a
bucket of water and poured it slowly
90
00:07:38.920 --> 00:07:43.560
into a toilet to get the sound. There's other sound libraries that had peen
91
00:07:43.680 --> 00:07:46.759
in it. And really what it
came down to with, especially with the
92
00:07:46.800 --> 00:07:48.959
patient, was getting the fuel right
for the fact that he would walk into
93
00:07:49.000 --> 00:07:51.920
another room, close the door and
go into a bathroom behind that door,
94
00:07:53.120 --> 00:07:55.639
and it wasn't that he was walking
into a bathroom. He was walking into
95
00:07:55.639 --> 00:07:59.160
a bedroom that had on suite off
the side, So it was trying to
96
00:07:59.160 --> 00:08:03.160
get the right feel for that a
distance as far as and going through a
97
00:08:03.240 --> 00:08:07.240
door. And then there was also
the whole fact of that the jay's for
98
00:08:07.319 --> 00:08:11.480
the show. The show runners for
the show UM wanted it to be sort
99
00:08:11.519 --> 00:08:15.560
of an extended as they used to
call it, a young man's pee,
100
00:08:16.439 --> 00:08:20.000
because that was part of the story. And so we had to nail down
101
00:08:20.040 --> 00:08:24.920
the right length of how long it
was going to be. We had to
102
00:08:26.000 --> 00:08:31.440
nail down the right flow to say
that it was a young person and such
103
00:08:31.480 --> 00:08:37.559
like that. So we most of
it was recorded and then cut in later.
104
00:08:37.600 --> 00:08:41.480
That That was one of my jobs
was recording and cutting in different ways
105
00:08:41.480 --> 00:08:45.279
of peeing sounds, and we didn't
use the same one each time. I
106
00:08:45.320 --> 00:08:48.320
will admit that we didn't use the
same recording each time because we wanted different
107
00:08:48.399 --> 00:08:52.039
lengths just to play with time in
there, and also just to give different
108
00:08:52.039 --> 00:08:54.759
perspectives sometimes so that it wasn't like, oh, they're just using the same
109
00:08:54.759 --> 00:08:58.120
sound over and over again, because
your brain does pick up on that.
110
00:08:58.200 --> 00:09:01.720
In a television show, you sort
of and sometimes you want that sometimes you
111
00:09:01.759 --> 00:09:05.480
want to set up like, oh, it's the same sound because it's being
112
00:09:05.600 --> 00:09:07.519
used as a marker, right,
And we did do that with the P
113
00:09:09.120 --> 00:09:13.639
as far as timing of the P
because that was a device in the show
114
00:09:15.080 --> 00:09:22.480
that we used to play with time
episode six. And so sometimes you want
115
00:09:22.559 --> 00:09:24.360
to be the same thing, sometimes
you don't. And to me, I
116
00:09:24.399 --> 00:09:30.200
always like sort of refreshing the sounds
and having not exactly the same but similar.
117
00:09:31.360 --> 00:09:39.480
So I probably recorded myself just for
that show at least thirty different urination
118
00:09:39.840 --> 00:09:50.039
type sounds. What thirty different urination
type sounds? That's a lot, and
119
00:09:50.080 --> 00:09:54.840
how many compared to some things that
I record. Some things I record like
120
00:09:54.879 --> 00:10:00.240
doors. I have so many different
sounds of doors, because you just never
121
00:10:00.279 --> 00:10:03.679
know what's going to fit right for
what you need. So tell me then,
122
00:10:03.200 --> 00:10:09.960
like what's some crazy things that happen
or what could go terribly wrong,
123
00:10:11.240 --> 00:10:16.039
or you know, tell me some
disasters or something. Sure, well,
124
00:10:16.559 --> 00:10:22.279
usually you know, most disasters that
are worth telling and happen with other people.
125
00:10:22.000 --> 00:10:26.480
I find disasters that happen to yourself
are just sort of sad a little
126
00:10:26.480 --> 00:10:30.240
bit to myself. That's how I
always feel about it. So usually the
127
00:10:30.639 --> 00:10:37.480
disasters that come about with other things
are usually in the realm of adr which
128
00:10:37.679 --> 00:10:41.159
I'm assuming most people don't know what
that is, but that is automated dialogue
129
00:10:41.200 --> 00:10:46.960
replacement, which we go and replace
dialogue in a scene from a show or
130
00:10:46.000 --> 00:10:50.559
a movie. And it could be
before technical reasons. You know, if
131
00:10:50.600 --> 00:10:54.080
they were filming outside of an airport
and an airplane flew overhead and you couldn't
132
00:10:54.080 --> 00:10:58.799
hear the actor, but their facial
expressions were right, we just want to
133
00:10:58.799 --> 00:11:01.840
replace their voice. Or it could
be for story reasons. We need to
134
00:11:01.919 --> 00:11:05.559
change something in the story, character's
name, or the time that was mentioned
135
00:11:05.679 --> 00:11:09.559
or a date that was mentioned,
so we'll replace them and have the actor
136
00:11:09.639 --> 00:11:16.240
come into a studio and give us
that line again with a slight change,
137
00:11:16.399 --> 00:11:20.120
or just for the technical reasons.
And usually, you know, some funny
138
00:11:20.200 --> 00:11:24.039
things can happen during that time.
You know, you can have the actors
139
00:11:24.080 --> 00:11:28.039
have to get back into you know, say their character has been running well,
140
00:11:28.120 --> 00:11:31.320
now we have to get them winded
again, so you have to ask
141
00:11:31.360 --> 00:11:37.200
them to run in place or do
some exercise. I had one actor come
142
00:11:37.279 --> 00:11:43.720
in that was doing voiceover for a
documentary and they knew that their stomach grumbled
143
00:11:43.879 --> 00:11:46.840
a lot, and they feel bad
about that because the stomach grumble will ruin
144
00:11:46.919 --> 00:11:50.159
a take, and so they came
in. They actually have a pillow that
145
00:11:50.279
--> 00:11:54.360
they always brought. I thought this
was the sweetest thing because they were really
146
00:11:54.360 --> 00:11:58.240
excited about doing the voice over and
they took this pill and they would put
147
00:11:58.279 --> 00:12:01.360
it over their stomach to quiet their
stomach well so that you wouldn't hear it
148
00:12:01.360 --> 00:12:07.120
on the microphone. But we've also
had some you know, terrific horror stories
149
00:12:07.759 --> 00:12:15.600
where and it's by no fault of
anybody in the session. It's just circumstance.
150
00:12:16.159 --> 00:12:20.720
When we ask actors to do their
job, we're asking them to be
151
00:12:20.799 --> 00:12:28.679
very vulnerable. We're asking them to
portray a character and portray that person sort
152
00:12:28.720 --> 00:12:33.240
of inner being that you know,
we're putting them in a very vulnerable state.
153
00:12:33.559 --> 00:12:35.320
And sometimes it's really hard for them
to get back to that state,
154
00:12:35.440 --> 00:12:39.799
especially if they've shot you know,
months ago, and now they have to
155
00:12:39.799 --> 00:12:45.000
come back and redo it. And
so I've had actors come in and just
156
00:12:45.480 --> 00:12:48.840
completely break down because they feel like
they can't get back to the spot that
157
00:12:48.879 --> 00:12:52.159
they need to. I've had them, you know, they're trying, and
158
00:12:52.399 --> 00:12:56.320
sometimes we do multiple takes, right
we'll you know, you would love to
159
00:12:56.320 --> 00:13:00.720
get it in maybe three takes,
but most the time, you know.
160
00:13:00.720 --> 00:13:03.600
I've had one time where I was
shooting an ADR with an actor and one
161
00:13:03.639 --> 00:13:09.639
line took twenty five takes. Oh, because they have to get the sound
162
00:13:09.639 --> 00:13:11.799
of their voice back, they need
to get the emotion back to where it
163
00:13:11.840 --> 00:13:16.279
needs to be. They're trying to
get it back and sync with their own
164
00:13:16.320 --> 00:13:22.720
lips so that we believe that it's
actually happening on screen. And so you're
165
00:13:22.720 --> 00:13:26.759
you're putting them in this vulnerable place
and for all intensive purposes. They are
166
00:13:28.240 --> 00:13:35.200
in a fish bowl. They're in
a soundproof booth that has a glass window,
167
00:13:35.799 --> 00:13:37.879
and everybody is looking at them through
this window. So they're just sort
168
00:13:37.919 --> 00:13:43.399
of buy themselves in this space,
and we keep asking them for more and
169
00:13:43.480 --> 00:13:48.559
more, and so I've seen some
people just break down where they've completely lost
170
00:13:48.600 --> 00:13:54.759
it. I had one actor who
after a long day of shooting, they
171
00:13:54.799 --> 00:13:58.799
put in probably a twelve hour day
on set and then had to come and
172
00:13:58.799 --> 00:14:01.919
do about four hours of ADR afterwards
for a previous episode of a TV show.
173
00:14:03.080 --> 00:14:09.240
They were
not having it. And
there's nothing quite like somebody that you
174
00:14:09.320 --> 00:14:13.279
don't really know. You know the
character because you've seen them so often,
175
00:14:13.440 --> 00:14:16.000
but you don't really know the person, and they come in and they're tired
176
00:14:16.039 --> 00:14:20.360
and they're just in a bad mood. And this one actor came in.
177
00:14:20.879 --> 00:14:26.559
We were connected with studio across the
country and the producers were on the line
178
00:14:26.559 --> 00:14:30.120
for the connection and the actor came
in. I said, oh, the
179
00:14:30.120 --> 00:14:33.759
mic is live so that you can
immediately start talking with the studio execs.
180
00:14:33.799 --> 00:14:37.720
And they walk in. They just
start going, fuck you, you fucking
181
00:14:37.879 --> 00:14:41.320
fucks. I'm fucking tired and I'm
fucking tired of this shit. I cannot
182
00:14:41.360 --> 00:14:46.399
deal with this. And they're like, hey, how's it going, body,
183
00:14:46.480 --> 00:14:48.399
and I'm like, he can't hear
you yet. He hasn't put on
184
00:14:48.440 --> 00:14:52.559
the headphones and they're like oh,
and he's still going off. And then
185
00:14:52.559 --> 00:14:54.799
he finally puts on the headphones and
they're like, hey, how's it going.
186
00:14:54.840 --> 00:15:00.039
He goes fuck you and he throws
the headphones and walks out. We
187
00:15:00.120 --> 00:15:01.399
were like, hey, you know, we'll get through this. And I'm
188
00:15:01.399 --> 00:15:05.240
like he walked out. Yeah,
he coming back, and I'm like,
189
00:15:05.600 --> 00:15:13.919
I don't know, and the like
nope, Like I'm not gonna go chase
190
00:15:13.960 --> 00:15:18.679
after somebody that that's that's that angry, you know. I had one time
191
00:15:18.679 --> 00:15:24.919
where Uh, an actor and a
director just did not get along at all.
192
00:15:26.039 --> 00:15:35.120
And um they the actor came in
to fulfill their adr obligation, but
193
00:15:35.480 --> 00:15:41.120
did not make it easy. And
they fought every line, and they,
194
00:15:41.399 --> 00:15:45.320
you know, wanted reasoning for why
are we doing this line? Why?
195
00:15:45.519 --> 00:15:48.879
And most of the lines were they
were all it was nothing to do with
196
00:15:48.919 --> 00:15:52.240
performance. It was all technical reasons. There was a noise that we couldn't
197
00:15:52.240 --> 00:15:56.039
get rid of, that we needed
to get rid of, and uh,
198
00:15:56.120 --> 00:16:00.120
yeah, it was just it was
a it was a four hour fight to
199
00:16:00.200 --> 00:16:06.559
get them to reproduce a line.
So this is something new that I'm learning
200
00:16:06.639 --> 00:16:15.440
again that So you might have an
actor do let's say ten minutes of dialogue
201
00:16:15.039 --> 00:16:19.639
and you're telling me that there might
be a minute of it in the middle
202
00:16:21.600 --> 00:16:25.039
that something I don't know, a
glass dropped or something like that, and
203
00:16:25.080 -->
00:16:30.320
so you have to just rerecord that
one minute of dialogue and then you have
204
00:16:30.399 --> 00:16:33.279
to stick it in or are you
just going to do the whole ten minutes
205
00:16:33.320 --> 00:16:38.399
again or you don't know yet,
We don't know yet. Usually if they've
206
00:16:38.440 --> 00:16:42.519
shot it on set, if it's
something like a long monologue or something like
207
00:16:42.559 --> 00:16:45.600
that, hopefully they have multiple takes
that they did on set, and hopefully
208
00:16:45.600 --> 00:16:48.639
we can just take one of those
other takes and take the word that is
209
00:16:48.679 --> 00:16:56.399
getting obstructed and fix it. That
is the best case scenario. Otherwise we
210
00:16:56.480 --> 00:17:00.279
will have the actor come into the
booth and rerecord, and we try to
211
00:17:00.320 --> 00:17:06.400
get as little as possible to fix. It's also just for ease for the
212
00:17:06.440 --> 00:17:11.480
actor, but sometimes in order to
make it believable, we have to get
213
00:17:11.519 --> 00:17:15.559
what we call handles a little bit
on either side of the problem so that
214
00:17:15.599 --> 00:17:18.440
we can blend it easier. Part
of it so that the actor can get
215
00:17:18.440 --> 00:17:22.160
back into the character and get into
the flow of how they were talking.
216
00:17:22.599 --> 00:17:26.119
And part of it also is just
for sonically, for us to use our
217
00:17:26.160 --> 00:17:30.759
tools to manipulate it so that it
matches better. So hopefully we don't have
218
00:17:30.839 --> 00:17:34.640
to do the full ten minutes.
Again, yeah, for everybody's stake.
219
00:17:36.519 --> 00:17:41.880
But and even even if we do
the full ten minutes, we sometimes whittle
220
00:17:41.920 --> 00:17:45.559
it down to just taking Sometimes we
just take syllables to fix things. Huh
221
00:17:45.559 --> 00:17:49.640
Okay. And then you said that
they're like in a sound booth all by
222
00:17:49.640 --> 00:17:53.720
themselves doing this, so they are
not I mean, might they be with
223
00:17:53.759 --> 00:17:59.240
their co star or something? Or
no, Nope, at this point that
224
00:17:59.319 --> 00:18:03.839
it's it's just them just because we're
trying to get their dialogue as clean as
225
00:18:03.920 --> 00:18:11.279
possible. Okay, so we try
not Sometimes depending on the ADR stage,
226
00:18:11.039 --> 00:18:15.839
sometimes the director and mixer might be
in the same room with them and not
227
00:18:15.839 --> 00:18:19.160
looking at them through a piece of
glass. But it is just them reacting
228
00:18:19.200 --> 00:18:23.119
to what has already been shot on
screen. So they're listening to the scene
229
00:18:23.119 --> 00:18:26.000
as it was shot and they're trying
to respond to it as they did on
230
00:18:26.079 --> 00:18:32.000
set, just to replace a line
of dialogue. And so you call this
231
00:18:32.160 --> 00:18:37.119
their ADR obligation. So they know
when they are chosen to be in a
232
00:18:37.160 -->
00:18:44.400
film or a TV show that this
is almost inevitable correct, depending on their
233
00:18:44.400 --> 00:18:48.319
contract. In most cases, usually
the contract does stipulate that they have to
234
00:18:48.400 --> 00:18:56.160
do be obligated to do some ADR
if necessary. It's not like if everything
235
00:18:56.160 --> 00:18:59.160
went down fine and we were able
to fix it all, then they don't
236
00:18:59.160 --> 00:19:03.359
have to do any AD. Yeah, you know, and that's what we
237
00:19:03.480 --> 00:19:06.240
really try to go for. Oh, that's what most of us strive for
238
00:19:06.400 --> 00:19:10.640
because of the fact that it's usually
a better performance that way if we can
239
00:19:10.720 --> 00:19:14.559
fix it. You know, everybody
always likes what happens on set. It's
240
00:19:14.559 --> 00:19:18.240
also technically just usually better because they're
in the same space as the lines.
241
00:19:18.440 --> 00:19:23.920
Yeah, yeah, so it works
better technically sonically for you. Yeah,
242
00:19:23.960 --> 00:19:27.240
And I would think it would just
be more authentic. And you know,
243
00:19:27.279 --> 00:19:30.720
I'm just imagining, like you have
to match up, like the words with
244
00:19:30.839 --> 00:19:36.480
the way their mouth is moving and
because they might do it differently the second
245
00:19:36.480 --> 00:19:41.079
time. And wow, that is
really I mean, obviously that's really technical.
246
00:19:41.920 --> 00:19:45.039
Some actors do see it as a
good way of improving their performance,
247
00:19:45.599 --> 00:19:48.519
right, because sometimes they feel like, oh, I could have hit that
248
00:19:48.559 --> 00:19:51.640
note a little bit better as far
as you know, timing and stuff like
249
00:19:51.680 --> 00:19:56.319
that. And as far as sync, we do have some leeway with how
250
00:19:56.440 --> 00:20:00.279
we can manipulate the syllables to make
them match up with the voice with the
251
00:20:00.359 --> 00:20:06.279
lips. So sometimes sync is not
as important as much as the motion.
252
00:20:07.079 --> 00:20:11.279
But there's so many parts that can
play because then what's even gets even trickier.
253
00:20:11.559 --> 00:20:15.400
Is all right, So now we've
done the adr, we've recorded it,
254
00:20:15.440 --> 00:20:17.759
we've edited it in, we've mixed
it in, and now we have
255
00:20:17.839 --> 00:20:21.599
to show it to the director or
the producer or whoever has the final approval.
256
00:20:22.240 --> 00:20:25.960
And sometimes just because they know that
we've done it. They go,
257
00:20:26.000 --> 00:20:27.880
oh, that's a d R.
I don't like it, and you're like,
258
00:20:27.880 --> 00:20:32.640
well, because and it's more of
a psychole lot. Sometimes it's a
259
00:20:32.640 --> 00:20:36.960
psychological game. Sometimes it is it
doesn't doesn't work right. But sometimes it's
260
00:20:36.960 --> 00:20:38.160
just like they know that it was
done. And there have been plenty of
261
00:20:38.160 --> 00:20:41.839
times too where we're like, we
know you shot a DR for this,
262
00:20:41.279 --> 00:20:45.000
but we didn't use it and so
this is actually production. They're like,
263
00:20:45.039 --> 00:20:48.640
oh, okay, play for me
again. UM. So sometimes it's a
264
00:20:48.680 --> 00:20:52.240
psychological thing of like they know that
it was done, so they're you know,
265
00:20:52.359 --> 00:20:55.680
they're wary of it. They're they're
thinking something might be wrong. It's
266
00:20:55.680 --> 00:21:00.599
the same thing with um with lip
sync, if one somebody notices something out
267
00:21:00.640 --> 00:21:06.400
of lip sync, you have to
work really hard to make sure that it's
268
00:21:06.400 --> 00:21:10.440
not out of sync. But then
it's almost always in your mind as being
269
00:21:10.480 --> 00:21:12.640
out of sync because it was a
problem, you know, and it's it's
270
00:21:12.680 --> 00:21:18.079
one of those instinctual things that happens
to us as humans, is you know,
271
00:21:18.559 --> 00:21:21.880
it's how we learn not to play
with fire. Right, we touched
272
00:21:21.920 --> 00:21:25.279
fire, it hurt, don't touch
it again. It's like it was out
273
00:21:25.279 --> 00:21:27.000
of like, here's a problem.
The sync was a problem, and it's
274
00:21:27.039 --> 00:21:30.839
going to be a problem in this
spot every time in our brain, you
275
00:21:30.880 --> 00:21:33.880
know, and sometimes it's hard to
get over that. You sort of have
276
00:21:33.920 --> 00:21:36.359
to like step away for a little
bit, come back, and then watch
277
00:21:36.400 --> 00:21:41.559
it again sort of fresh. Okay. So one of the other things that's
278
00:21:41.680 --> 00:21:45.839
that's sort of fun about being a
sound designer is the recording process, right
279
00:21:47.200 --> 00:21:51.400
is going out and recording peeing or
whatever else. I worked on a project
280
00:21:51.440 --> 00:21:55.839
one time where in order to make
the sound that we want to make,
281
00:21:55.880 --> 00:22:03.519
which was an explosion with glass debris, we went around and at this time
282
00:22:03.519 --> 00:22:07.279
I was actually living in Los Angeles. We went around two Junkyards around the
283
00:22:07.319 --> 00:22:12.240
Greater Los Angeles area. And this
was in the nineties, so there was
284
00:22:12.319 --> 00:22:18.279
still tube televisions, the big tube
televisions, and so we went around to
285
00:22:18.359 --> 00:22:22.240
Junkyards in the nineties and bought twenty
seven inch or bigger tube televisions. I
286
00:22:22.240 --> 00:22:26.240
think the biggest one we got was
only thirty two or thirty six inches or
287
00:22:26.279 --> 00:22:33.720
something like that, and we bought
I think twelve of them from Junkyards and
288
00:22:33.440 --> 00:22:38.519
we took them back to a folly
stage, which is a soundproof room where
289
00:22:38.559 --> 00:22:42.960
footsteps and other sound effects can be
performed to picture, and we took them
290
00:22:44.000 -->
00:22:47.359
back to the folly stage and we
took the plastic casing off of them.
291
00:22:47.680 --> 00:22:52.119
And our folly artist for the project
had learned that if you laid the television
292
00:22:52.400 --> 00:23:00.440
down with the glass side, the
viewing side down and through some thing at
293
00:23:00.480 --> 00:23:04.319
the back tube of the television,
it made the best implosion because the glass
294
00:23:04.359 --> 00:23:07.319
would break and then the vacuum would
fill up and it would implode, and
295
00:23:07.359 --> 00:23:11.559
plus all the glass would go down
instead of sprain all over. Yeah.
296
00:23:11.559 --> 00:23:17.279
So we set up a television in
a pit in the fully room, and
297
00:23:17.359 --> 00:23:21.279
we put up these big baffles around
the television just to protect ourselves, these
298
00:23:21.359 --> 00:23:26.640
foot foot thick foam baffles sound baffles, and we hung microphones over it all
299
00:23:26.680 --> 00:23:33.039
around. We hung I think about
eight microphones around because we had different recorders
300
00:23:33.039 --> 00:23:37.240
recording at different levels just in case, and the fully artist would jump up
301
00:23:37.240 --> 00:23:42.720
on a step stool over the baffle, throw a brick at the television and
302
00:23:42.759 --> 00:23:48.119
then duck so that nothing would just
in case something went wrong, and we
303
00:23:48.279 --> 00:23:55.559
recorded I would say nine televisions this
way, each one having a different type
304
00:23:55.599 --> 00:24:02.759
of concussive boom with glass. And
then I guess, like the last one
305
00:24:02.799 --> 00:24:07.400
that we did, so number twelve, he goes up and it was just
306
00:24:07.440 --> 00:24:11.000
a twenty seven It was the smallest
one we had, a twenty seven inch
307
00:24:11.519 --> 00:24:15.599
goes up, throws the brick at
it, and the implosion. I always
308
00:24:15.599 --> 00:24:18.720
want to say explosion because that's what
we used the sound for it. But
309
00:24:18.759 --> 00:24:25.599
the implosion of the television was such
a concussive sound. It actually shook everything
310
00:24:26.079 --> 00:24:30.400
in the room. And this was
all like an airport hanger size room that
311
00:24:30.480 --> 00:24:33.799
we're in, and I was on
the other side of the baffle, and
312
00:24:33.839 --> 00:24:37.720
you just felt it ripple through your
body. You just felt the sound just
313
00:24:37.920 --> 00:24:44.160
shake your whole body. And I
remember just going holy shit and not even
314
00:24:44.160 --> 00:24:49.319
thinking that microphones are running, so
at the very end of this awesome explosion,
315
00:24:49.400 --> 00:24:56.359
you just barely hear me go,
oh, we used the sound,
316
00:24:56.559 --> 00:24:59.359
We layered them and used them for
this explosion that we wanted them for.
317
00:24:59.480 --> 00:25:02.079
We did cut out my holy shit. Yeah, but I just remember just
318
00:25:02.119 --> 00:25:06.720
being like so frightened just because there
was like the one of these loud things
319
00:25:06.720 --> 00:25:10.160
I never thought would happen. Um
and boss, you're also sitting there like
320
00:25:10.720 --> 00:25:15.480
this thing was that big, and
actually overall it wasn't. It was the
321
00:25:15.880 --> 00:25:18.799
sound way that came from it that
was so big right there. We were
322
00:25:18.799 --> 00:25:22.240
in no danger from it than any
of the other ones. It was just
323
00:25:22.240 --> 00:25:26.559
that the sound the way the vacuum
imploded on that one was just wow massive.
324
00:25:27.440 --> 00:25:32.359
Um, So that that was an
interesting story as far as things that
325
00:25:32.440 --> 00:25:37.480
happened. I feel like that the
the holy shit would have been like an
326
00:25:37.799 --> 00:25:41.640
like an interesting thing to have left
in I can just I can hear like
327
00:25:41.319 --> 00:25:47.079
you know, um, Bruce willis
saying like holy shit, right, you
328
00:25:47.119 --> 00:25:49.759
know, like in like in a
one of the die Hard movies, you
329
00:25:49.799 --> 00:25:56.400
know, watching that happen and hearing
holy shit. But it probably wasn't fitting
330
00:25:56.440 --> 00:26:00.640
for them the thing you were doing
at the time. That also, he
331
00:26:00.680 --> 00:26:03.759
gets paid to talk. I get
paid to be quiet, right, right,
332
00:26:03.920 --> 00:26:07.440
right right, that's true. We
actually have to be careful when we're
333
00:26:07.440 --> 00:26:12.880
putting in background voices for TV shows
and films. So you have the background
334
00:26:12.920 --> 00:26:18.359
actors who are in the background and
they're mouthing words. They're actually not allowed
335
00:26:18.359 --> 00:26:22.799
to talk, or they're not supposed
to be speaking, they're mouthing words,
336
00:26:22.799 --> 00:26:26.599
so that you get the principal dialogue
clean, and when we go and fill
337
00:26:26.640 --> 00:26:32.160
in those background scenes like a bar
or something like that, we will put
338
00:26:32.240 --> 00:26:36.039
in what we call walla, which
is just sort of a murmur of voices
339
00:26:36.839 --> 00:26:40.839
but they're not saying anything in particular. And then we also have what's known
340
00:26:40.880 --> 00:26:45.400
as loop group, which is a
group of actors that are hired to recreate
341
00:26:45.440 --> 00:26:48.279
background voices, especially for a region. So you know, if it's a
342
00:26:48.319 --> 00:26:51.960
New York bar, you get a
bunch of actors that are doing New York
343
00:26:51.960 --> 00:26:56.119
accents. If it's a Southern bar, same sort of thing. But they
344
00:26:56.160 --> 00:27:00.759
have to be careful that they're portraying
somebody that's in the space, but not
345
00:27:00.960 --> 00:27:07.200
necessarily a particular person, because if
it is thought to be that actor,
346
00:27:08.160 --> 00:27:11.960
they could possibly i mean, the
actor should get paid more if they are
347
00:27:12.039 --> 00:27:17.319
talking on camera, And we have
to be careful that we don't cause it
348
00:27:17.359 --> 00:27:22.240
that people think that actor is the
one talking because of the fact that,
349
00:27:22.400 --> 00:27:25.319
you know, depending on the budget
of the project, it could be a
350
00:27:25.400 --> 00:27:27.960
problem if all of a sudden,
this actor who was getting paid whatever for
351
00:27:29.039 --> 00:27:32.240
being a non speaking role, all
of a sudden got bumped up to a
352
00:27:32.279 --> 00:27:37.680
speaking role. Wow, But Yeah, So there's those weird things that you
353
00:27:37.680 --> 00:27:42.759
have to consider. But I do
have one other story, not to do
354
00:27:42.799 --> 00:27:47.799
with sound effects for recording, but
have to do with mixing, which is
355
00:27:47.799 --> 00:27:52.759
the final part of our journey and
sound is we mix the sounds together,
356
00:27:52.880 --> 00:27:56.359
and that's sort of what everybody comes
to know as the sound of the film
357
00:27:56.480 --> 00:28:03.440
or TV show. And there's one
time when I was mixing a film and
358
00:28:03.920 --> 00:28:07.920
sitting there and I'd been mixing it
for about two weeks. It was a
359
00:28:07.960 --> 00:28:11.559
documentary, and it was a very
cool documentary. But sitting there with the
360
00:28:11.559 --> 00:28:15.880
producer and we were mixing it and
everybody's happy. And then the director and
361
00:28:15.960 --> 00:28:22.720
the director's wife and a friend of
the director came in and they came in
362
00:28:22.759 --> 00:28:26.960
to watch the film down for the
final playback for review and give me notes
363
00:28:27.000 --> 00:28:30.599
and everything. And we're like,
okay, cool, And so they come
364
00:28:30.599 --> 00:28:32.880
in. We're like, we're going
to watch the whole movie as a movie.
365
00:28:32.920 --> 00:28:36.400
You're going to lower the lights,
have your popcorn, have your coffee,
366
00:28:37.279 --> 00:28:38.359
you know, but watch it like
a movie and give me notes.
367
00:28:38.640 --> 00:28:44.000
They're like okay, So we lower
the lights, I hit play and the
368
00:28:44.079 --> 00:28:48.240
movie starts, and it starts off
with the sequence with cameras going off and
369
00:28:48.359 --> 00:28:52.160
people walking on the red carpet type
of scene we've all seen seeing these things,
370
00:28:52.680 --> 00:28:57.480
and all of a sudden, the
somebody jumps up in front of me
371
00:28:57.559 --> 00:29:00.160
because I'm sitting towards the back of
the room and they jump up in front
372
00:29:00.200 --> 00:29:03.039
of me, and I'm like,
I think they spelled their coffee or something
373
00:29:03.079 --> 00:29:07.039
happened, right, And so I
stopped the movie and I turn on the
374
00:29:07.079 --> 00:29:08.480
lights and I'm like, if everybody
okay, is everything okay? And they're
375
00:29:08.480 --> 00:29:11.279
like, yeah, yeah, yeah, but we thought you said this movie
376
00:29:11.319 --> 00:29:15.680
was insurround sound, and I'm like, it is in surround sound. They're
377
00:29:15.680 --> 00:29:18.000
like, but I don't hear it
in surround sound. I said, well,
378
00:29:18.039 --> 00:29:22.839
that's because this part of the film
doesn't have anything happening behind you.
379
00:29:23.440 --> 00:29:26.960
So that's why they're like, but
it's surrounds sound. And this comes to
380
00:29:27.000 --> 00:29:33.279
the fact that people get very lost
in the nomenclature of things and not necessarily
381
00:29:33.119 --> 00:29:40.400
what it means. So here we
are in this professional mixed studio with somebody
382
00:29:40.440 --> 00:29:42.039
and wasn't the director. It was
it was a friend. It was somebody
383
00:29:42.039 --> 00:29:47.680
who's not in the industry who just
was confused about what they were hearing.
384
00:29:48.160 --> 00:29:52.960
So then I took about ten to
fifteen minutes to explain to them how surround
385
00:29:52.000 --> 00:29:57.640
sound works. And I had to
mute the front speakers. And for the
386
00:29:57.720 --> 00:30:03.440
listeners who don't know, there's usually
at least three speakers up front by the
387
00:30:03.480 --> 00:30:06.200
screen, a left, center and
a right and then we have a left
388
00:30:06.240 --> 00:30:11.160
surround in a right surround. There's
many more nowadays, but that's the basics,
389
00:30:11.640 --> 00:30:15.640
and so yeah, I had a
mute the front speakers and play just
390
00:30:15.680 --> 00:30:19.000
a section where something was happening in
the back. And even so, when
391
00:30:19.039 --> 00:30:23.160
something happens in the back, we're
trying unless it's something like saving Private Ryan
392
00:30:23.400 --> 00:30:29.119
or The Fast and the Furious or
an Avengers movie, nothing should really be
393
00:30:29.160 --> 00:30:33.519
exciting in the back because you don't
want to distract from what's happening on the
394
00:30:33.559 --> 00:30:37.640
screen. And so yeah, it's
been about fifteen minutes, and the director
395
00:30:37.759 --> 00:30:41.079
was thankful that I did it,
But at the same time, I could
396
00:30:41.079 --> 00:30:42.839
only imagine going through their heads like, wow, I just paid for fifteen
397
00:30:42.880 --> 00:30:48.119
minutes of a educational lesson for my
friend to learn about sounds. But I
398
00:30:48.160 --> 00:30:52.279
didn't know this either, James,
Because we have surround sound and sometimes I
399
00:30:52.319 --> 00:30:56.559
don't hear anything from the back,
and I look at my husband and I
400
00:30:56.599 --> 00:30:59.519
go, Steve, I don't think
the surround sound is working. But you're
401
00:30:59.559 --> 00:31:03.960
telling that's how surround sound works.
You're not always going to hear it from
402
00:31:03.960 --> 00:31:07.519
all the speakers at the same time. Yeah, because I'm not always placing
403
00:31:07.519 --> 00:31:10.640
it in all the speakers at the
same time. You know, as part
404
00:31:10.640 --> 00:31:14.240
of my control as the sound and
part of the
sound is onming, is
405
00:31:14.519 --> 00:31:18.640
what gets placed where on in the
speakers. Right, I have full control
406
00:31:18.720 --> 00:31:23.559
over whether or not a sound goes
across the screen or goes behind you or
407
00:31:23.640 --> 00:31:26.960
stays in front of you. In
the New Dolby, atmost we can do
408
00:31:27.079 --> 00:31:32.799
height speakers that go up into the
ceiling, and we control all of that.
409
00:31:32.880 --> 00:31:37.319
And that's part of the storytelling.
Right during an action sequence like the
410
00:31:37.319 --> 00:31:40.599
storming of the beach and saving Private
Ryan, they do a wonderful job.
411
00:31:40.640 --> 00:31:44.200
And I remember walking into the theater
during this scene and the bullets are whizzing
412
00:31:44.200 --> 00:31:47.039
past you, and those are going
into the surround speakers and going They're going
413
00:31:47.079 --> 00:31:49.119
from the front to the back and
the back to the front and side and
414
00:31:49.319 --> 00:31:52.799
every which way and everything like that, and Star Wars, Right, you
415
00:31:52.839 --> 00:31:59.559
have that opening shot where the pan
happens in the star destory or comes overhead,
416
00:31:59.640 --> 00:32:02.880
right, that goes from back to
front. That's when the surrounds are
417
00:32:02.880 --> 00:32:07.039
going to be used. And even
though in most times, like in The
418
00:32:07.119 --> 00:32:09.519
Patient, just because we know that's
a show that I recently worked on,
419
00:32:09.960 --> 00:32:15.279
you know, there is ambience in
all the speakers in that show to make
420
00:32:15.799 --> 00:32:22.440
the basement seem like a cave almost. You know, we put in basement
421
00:32:22.680 --> 00:32:28.440
in all the speakers, but it's
not very strong in the back speakers because
422
00:32:28.440 --> 00:32:30.759
we don't want you to turn your
head and be like, what's that noise
423
00:32:30.799 --> 00:32:35.240
happening behind me? Yeah, And
it's because it's not so strong when you're
424
00:32:35.240 --> 00:32:38.279
watching it in your own house,
it's not going to be fairly noticeable because
425
00:32:38.279 --> 00:32:42.279
your house makes a lot of noise
that's very similar to the noise that we're
426
00:32:42.319 --> 00:32:47.039
putting in for the basement, right. But in that also, if you
427
00:32:47.200 --> 00:32:54.279
remember an episode two of The Patient, there's one point where Steve Carrell's character,
428
00:32:54.759 --> 00:33:00.519
here's somebody upstairs, right, and
he looks upstairs, those sounds come
429
00:33:00.559 --> 00:33:05.640
out of all the speakers, just
try to simulate that they're overhead of you,
430
00:33:05.720 --> 00:33:07.920
because we did not mix this in
Dolby. At most, we didn't
431
00:33:07.920 --> 00:33:13.200
have ceiling speakers in mind for this
show. We did another phase correlation trick
432
00:33:13.279 --> 00:33:15.079
with it, where we put it
so that it sort of if you're sitting
433
00:33:15.160 --> 00:33:20.559
in the sweet spot, those footsteps, those house noises would sound like they're
434
00:33:20.559 --> 00:33:25.079
coming from in front of you,
So you know, that's when we're going
435
00:33:25.119 --> 00:33:29.480
to play with those things. But
to have something constantly going back there,
436
00:33:29.519 --> 00:33:32.279
that's going to be distracting. You
know, as soon as you take a
437
00:33:32.400 --> 00:33:37.279
viewer off of the screen, you've
pulled them out of the story. Yeah,
438
00:33:37.319 --> 00:33:40.880
and we don't ever want to pull
somebody out of the story. Just
439
00:33:42.039 --> 00:33:45.920
tell me what's been your favorite thing
to work on. I don't know if
440
00:33:45.920 --> 00:33:51.160
you feel comfortable saying that, either
your favorite show or your favorite episode of
441
00:33:51.200 --> 00:33:54.039
a show, or your favorite kind
of thing, like do you like the
442
00:33:54.680 --> 00:33:59.640
thing you know, like choo choo
choo going you know over you? I
443
00:33:59.680 --> 00:34:04.640
could never be a sound effects anything, but or do you like my jobs
444
00:34:04.920 --> 00:34:13.960
Jeopardy now? Yeah? I think
so. I mean, favorites are really
445
00:34:14.000 --> 00:34:19.559
hard to to pin down. I
am a person who likes uh different.
446
00:34:20.039 --> 00:34:22.239
I don't like to be pigeonholed.
I like to work on different types of
447
00:34:22.280 --> 00:34:29.400
things. I've worked on so many
great projects that really the ones that I
448
00:34:29.599 --> 00:34:34.760
would say are my favorite are the
ones that give me a challenge, and
449
00:34:34.880 --> 00:34:39.599
I feel like I've met the challenge
in One of one of my favorite scenes
450
00:34:39.679 --> 00:34:45.039
I do like to talk about is
from The Americans. In season three,
451
00:34:45.519 --> 00:34:51.559
there was a scene where there had
to be a tooth extraction. M Carrie
452
00:34:51.639 --> 00:34:54.880
Russell's character had broken a tooth and
being a Russian spy, can't just go
453
00:34:54.920 --> 00:35:00.880
to any dentist, right, um, So now her husband and quotes has
454
00:35:00.920 --> 00:35:07.679
to extract the tooth in their basement. And that scene, to me,
455
00:35:07.039 --> 00:35:13.760
was such a subtle sound design challenge
that we had to make it. It
456
00:35:13.800 --> 00:35:15.880
was a very It was shot very
intimately. It was actually shot like a
457
00:35:15.920 --> 00:35:21.280
love scene, very close up on
the eyes and reactions that way, and
458
00:35:21.800 --> 00:35:27.199
but yet we had to get the
nuances of pliers on a tooth trying to
459
00:35:27.199 --> 00:35:30.880
pull them out, and but yet
at the same time make it a very
460
00:35:30.920 --> 00:35:35.880
tender moment, you know, but
at the same time make it very disturbing.
461
00:35:35.960 --> 00:35:38.320
You know. My wife actually still
can't watch that scene because she's just
462
00:35:38.679 --> 00:35:40.480
like
she's like, I'm going to
close my eyes and then she's like,
463
00:35:40.519 --> 00:35:45.000
I can't close my ears. This
is horrible. But that was probably one
464
00:35:45.159 --> 00:35:49.039
that one was one of my favorites
just because it was it was such a
465
00:35:49.119 --> 00:35:55.159
challenge to find this balance of disturbing
and intimate that made people realize that these
466
00:35:55.239 --> 00:36:01.280
characters do actually have a love for
each other and also for their job.
467
00:36:02.079 --> 00:36:06.679
That was one of my favorites.
I worked on a show for Tom Fontana
468
00:36:06.840 --> 00:36:14.000
called Borgia for Netflix with U and
that was that was fun and challenging ways
469
00:36:14.039 --> 00:36:17.440
because I've worked with Tom for a
number of years. For about almost my
470
00:36:17.480 --> 00:36:22.199
whole career twenty one years or so, I've been working with Tom on different
471
00:36:22.199 --> 00:36:28.760
shows, and he allows us to
explore the sonic possibilities of scenes, and
472
00:36:28.800 --> 00:36:34.719
he allows us to have a little
creative fun with how to show get the
473
00:36:34.719 --> 00:36:39.079
emotion out sonically. And so in
Borgia, there is one scene where we
474
00:36:39.119 --> 00:36:42.760
got to really just kind of go
crazy, which was a lot of fun.
475
00:36:43.960 --> 00:36:50.039
Rodrigo Borgia had sort of become addicted
to his medicine and it was causing
476
00:36:50.119 --> 00:36:54.639
him to hallucinate, and there's this
whole sequence of him hallucinating and pretty much
477
00:36:54.679 --> 00:37:01.480
everybody was like his family was popping
in and out of his vision and stuff,
478
00:37:01.480 --> 00:37:05.960
and you didn't really quite know what
was going on. And so I
479
00:37:06.079 --> 00:37:12.119
had the fun job of making what
I call the brain break sound, because
480
00:37:12.119 --> 00:37:15.199
they had these quick camera moves that
would sort of, you know, whip
481
00:37:15.239 --> 00:37:21.079
your head around right, and each
time that happened, something visually happened differently,
482
00:37:21.119 --> 00:37:24.280
like a different his son cesare would
show up or and so then we
483
00:37:24.639 --> 00:37:28.480
I got to come up with,
like, all right, what would happen
484
00:37:28.559 --> 00:37:30.880
sonically at this moment, right?
And you could just go for the normal
485
00:37:30.960 --> 00:37:35.239
whoosh for the camera, but I
wasn't doing the camera. I was doing
486
00:37:35.280 --> 00:37:37.920
what was happening in Rodrigo's brain.
So I had to come up with the
487
00:37:37.960 --> 00:37:40.719
sound of you know, brains are
electrical, and so it was sort of
488
00:37:40.760 --> 00:37:46.119
this sort of electrical discharge sound,
something breaking and stuff like that. So
489
00:37:46.159 --> 00:37:50.440
that was a lot of fun because
it's you know, fifteenth century Rome.
490
00:37:50.519 --> 00:37:53.239
You don't expect to hear these sort
of
electrical sounds, but yet we made
491
00:37:53.280 --> 00:37:58.719
it work for this sequence. It
was a lot of fun, you know,
492
00:37:59.440 --> 00:38:01.920
every I like it when I work
on documentaries, and there was a
493
00:38:01.960 --> 00:38:07.199
documentary I worked on where the director
and I got along great. We just
494
00:38:07.079 --> 00:38:10.239
we sat there and we worked on
there on her film, and it was
495
00:38:10.320 --> 00:38:14.400
just so much. I don't want
to say fun, because when I tell
496
00:38:14.400 --> 00:38:17.400
you what the category of the documentary
was, you're gonna be like, that's
497
00:38:17.440 --> 00:38:22.639
not fun. But when you can
collaborate with somebody, it's just a rewarding
498
00:38:22.719 --> 00:38:28.639
experience. Sure, when you're working
on tough material like that, you kind
499
00:38:28.639 --> 00:38:30.719
of want to try to lighten the
mood a little bit, like on lunch
500
00:38:30.760 --> 00:38:36.039
breaks, you know, you just
kind of And so we were working and
501
00:38:36.159 --> 00:38:38.639
we took a lunch break and the
director and I were having a conversation.
502
00:38:38.760 --> 00:38:43.159
She was just like, oh,
so, you know, so similar to
503
00:38:43.199 --> 00:38:45.119
this. What's the craziest thing that
you've ever been asked to do for sound?
504
00:38:45.719 --> 00:38:50.119
And I said, well, my
nephews one time came to the studio
505
00:38:50.280 --> 00:38:53.800
when they were three, five,
and seven. They came to the studio
506
00:38:53.840 --> 00:38:57.280
to visit me, and I was
like, hey, guys, what do
507
00:38:57.320 --> 00:38:59.639
you want to hear? Because I
got every sound in the world. And
508
00:39:00.199 --> 00:39:02.320
you know, my one nephew is
a race car enthusiast, and he's like,
509
00:39:02.360 --> 00:39:04.880
I want to hear a race car. And I was like, all
510
00:39:05.000 --> 00:39:07.760
right, so type it into my
database and Brown got race cars everywhere.
511
00:39:08.239 --> 00:39:12.039
Next nephew is like, I want
to hear a t rex because nobody could
512
00:39:12.079 --> 00:39:15.639
record one of those, And of
course I type in t rex and so
513
00:39:15.639 --> 00:39:20.039
many people have made made t rex
sounds. There's t rex is going on
514
00:39:20.079 --> 00:39:24.360
and I don't know. And then
my youngest nephew just goes sloth and I'm
515
00:39:24.400 --> 00:39:30.480
like sloth, Like yeah, sloth, and I'm like, I didn't have
516
00:39:30.480 --> 00:39:32.599
a sloth sound anywhere, like,
oh my god. And they do make
517
00:39:32.639 --> 00:39:36.239
sounds but I didn't happen to have
any at that time. And I was
518
00:39:36.280 --> 00:39:37.480
like, oh. So I was
telling this director the story and she was
519
00:39:37.519 --> 00:39:40.119
just like, oh my goodness,
that's so funny. By the way,
520
00:39:40.159 --> 00:39:45.280
I want the sound of a t
Rex in my film somehow. And I'm
521
00:39:45.320 --> 00:39:50.079
like what She's like, She's like, I want you to put a t
522
00:39:50.280 --> 00:39:53.599
Rex in my film. And I'm
like, okay, well, challenge accepted.
523
00:39:53.760 --> 00:39:57.119
I will somehow find a way to
make a t Rex work in this
524
00:39:57.159 --> 00:40:04.000
film. And so there this one
shot where we're following, you know,
525
00:40:04.119 --> 00:40:08.599
some guerrilla warriors going through the jungle
sort of thing. It was a recreation
526
00:40:08.719 --> 00:40:15.360
that she had done to show these
soldiers marking through, marching through, and
527
00:40:15.519 --> 00:40:21.000
it just had this sort of Slytherin
type camera feel to it. And so
528
00:40:21.039 --> 00:40:24.559
I found one of my t Rex
sounds that was this low, rumbly growl,
529
00:40:25.199 --> 00:40:29.360
and I put it in and it
just sort of followed the movement of
530
00:40:29.400 --> 00:40:32.599
the camera behind these soldiers and it
just added this menacing feel to it,
531
00:40:32.679 --> 00:40:37.119
which was so perfect. I mean, it really did fit. But you're
532
00:40:37.159 --> 00:40:40.880
sitting there like, wow, I
just put a t Rex sound in a
533
00:40:40.960 --> 00:40:49.519
documentary. But the director actually tells
that story at every screening because she's just
534
00:40:49.599 --> 00:40:52.480
trying to lighten the mood too.
Yeah, you know, she realizes this
535
00:40:52.559 --> 00:40:55.760
is a heavy subject matter and we're
not trying to make light of it.
536
00:40:55.880 --> 00:41:01.119
But in order to keep people engaged, you have to bring them back out
537
00:41:01.159 --> 00:41:04.800
of it, as I'm sure you
know. Of course. You know,
538
00:41:04.840 --> 00:41:07.559
I've done documentaries where it's like I've
worked on documentaries for six months in a
539
00:41:07.639 --> 00:41:14.119
row. There's one time and I
was I never get the happy documentaries.
540
00:41:15.119 --> 00:41:20.079
I almost always get the you know, really tough material ones. My wife
541
00:41:20.119 --> 00:41:22.280
was like, oh my god,
you are so depressed, Like because all
542
00:41:22.320 --> 00:41:28.679
I've been doing for the last yeah, six months is hearing the horrors that
543
00:41:28.719 --> 00:41:34.960
are out there. Yeah, So
you know, just feel free to call
544
00:41:35.039 --> 00:41:37.760
me next time. You know,
it's okay, I'll talk it out with
545
00:41:37.880 --> 00:41:44.480
you, or I can like come
visit the sets or you know. I've
546
00:41:44.480 --> 00:41:47.679
been fairly lucky recently that all the
stuff I've been called upon when it is
547
00:41:47.679 --> 00:41:52.079
a doc, it's not super long
and depressing. It's usually I get called
548
00:41:52.119 --> 00:41:57.039
on for like a week or two. But this was early on in my
549
00:41:57.079 --> 00:42:00.159
career, and really I didn't say
no to anything. Then we have other
550
00:42:00.159 --> 00:42:02.480
things where we take t rex sounds
and put them. I had a one
551
00:42:02.519 --> 00:42:07.440
film, here's a good one for
you that it was a fiction piece.
552
00:42:07.519 --> 00:42:15.199
It was a narrative piece that you
know, had the story revolved around homeless
553
00:42:15.199 --> 00:42:20.639
shelters, and it was you followed
one character as he bounced in and out
554
00:42:20.679 --> 00:42:24.760
of homeless shelters. And it was
actually a very nice piece of very redeeming
555
00:42:24.800 --> 00:42:30.400
piece, very sort of different than
your Hollywood piece, which was kind of
556
00:42:30.480 --> 00:42:32.920
nice. There was no soundtrack score
with it. In fact, the only
557
00:42:32.960 --> 00:42:37.440
time score came in was at in
like the last five minutes of the film.
558
00:42:37.639 --> 00:42:40.360
Throughout the rest of the film there
was music but it was all diegetic
559
00:42:40.440 --> 00:42:44.760
music. It was like, you
know, somebody's radio coming from their apartment,
560
00:42:45.119 --> 00:42:47.559
or you know, a car driving
by playing a song sort of thing.
561
00:42:49.199 --> 00:42:52.599
So sound really played a big part
in this. In fact, there
562
00:42:52.639 --> 00:42:54.800
wasn't as much dialogue in the film
because you just sort of followed this man
563
00:42:54.840 --> 00:43:00.039
along, and so we had to
build this soundscape of New York. It
564
00:43:00.159 --> 00:43:04.079
was really a great challenge, a
lot of fun to do. And the
565
00:43:04.119 --> 00:43:07.760
director was like, I want it
to be an assault. I want you
566
00:43:07.800 --> 00:43:10.920
know that we're in this guy who's
homeless in New York and it's just an
567
00:43:10.920 --> 00:43:14.599
assault of a city, right,
And it's like, okay, So we
568
00:43:15.159 --> 00:43:16.960
built this soundscape up and then the
direction said, and I also have one
569
00:43:16.960 --> 00:43:22.679
more challenge for you. I want
to hear every bodily function happened at some
570
00:43:22.719 --> 00:43:30.519
point during this film. And I'm
like what He's like, I want a
571
00:43:30.760 --> 00:43:35.559
fart, I want pee, I
want oop, I want burp, I
572
00:43:35.599 --> 00:43:38.480
want sneeze, I want cough,
I want yawn, I want everything.
573
00:43:38.519 --> 00:43:44.239
I want all to happen is and
the star of the film, the main
574
00:43:44.320 --> 00:43:45.559
character, also happened to be a
producer, and he's like, just don't
575
00:43:45.599 --> 00:43:49.639
make it sound like I'm doing all
those things. I was like, okay,
576
00:43:49.679 --> 00:43:52.320
we will keep it from you.
But the challenge was was to make
577
00:43:52.320 --> 00:43:57.559
sure that every bodily function, at
some point or another me And it wasn't
578
00:43:57.559 --> 00:44:00.159
something that you're like, oh,
there's the fart. It was just like
579
00:44:00.519 --> 00:44:02.039
sneak it in there, right it
was. It was kind of like we
580
00:44:02.079 --> 00:44:06.440
always do these, you know,
filmmakers always have these little easter eggs,
581
00:44:06.599 --> 00:44:09.280
right. Um. We can't do
them for ourselves, you know, we
582
00:44:09.480 --> 00:44:15.440
we we you know, the folks
from Skywalker are known for the Wilhelm scream,
583
00:44:15.880 --> 00:44:22.119
which is this scream that Ben Burt
had discovered from an old western and
584
00:44:22.199 --> 00:44:27.159
it has been used in like every
Star Wars film since of this ridiculous other
585
00:44:27.199 --> 00:44:30.679
top type thing, right um.
And that's sort of like now the general
586
00:44:30.719 --> 00:44:36.119
public knows about it, so everybody's
looking for the Wilhelm scream, but internally
587
00:44:36.159 --> 00:44:39.000
we all sort of put in these
little things to ourselves that you know,
588
00:44:39.159 --> 00:44:44.000
it's it's like, oh, that's
my dog barking in the background, did
589
00:44:44.039 --> 00:44:45.920
you hear my you know, like
that sort of thing. So for this
590
00:44:45.960 --> 00:44:52.960
film, it was a bodily function. I mean, that's so idiosyncratic,
591
00:44:52.239 --> 00:44:58.039
but I love it, just like, you know, just like the dinosaur
592
00:44:58.639 --> 00:45:01.800
Like, it wasn't like here's a
dinosaur, it was just use this sound
593
00:45:01.880 --> 00:45:07.159
somewhere in the film to add to
the mood or something like that. So
594
00:45:07.119 --> 00:45:13.000
yeah, yeah, that's fascinating.
And that's part of what I really have
595
00:45:13.079 --> 00:45:17.039
to do and think about whenever I'm
working on something, right, is you
596
00:45:17.079 --> 00:45:22.519
know, do I always need to
use the same thing to make the sound
597
00:45:22.519 --> 00:45:24.880
that you're hearing? No, I
need to make the feeling with sound,
598
00:45:25.400 --> 00:45:30.559
right, So who's the feeling that
is meant to be conveyed? So who
599
00:45:30.639 --> 00:45:35.840
got paid to poop and record it? That's how do you get a job
600
00:45:35.920 --> 00:45:40.880
like that? Oh well, that's
the thing. It's not actually poop that
601
00:45:44.440 --> 00:45:47.559
you know. There are many ways
to make it sound like what you need,
602
00:45:49.039 --> 00:45:51.760
right, just just like the urinating
sound. You know, I could
603
00:45:51.800 --> 00:45:54.079
take a picture and pour it slowly
into a toilet and make it sound just
604
00:45:54.119 --> 00:45:59.239
like somebody's peeing. Oh yeah,
the same sort of thing with with poop.
605
00:45:59.360 --> 00:46:01.320
We actually I used a very similar
sound in one of the episodes of
606
00:46:01.320 --> 00:46:07.199
The Americans in the first season.
Also, okay, all right, on
607
00:46:07.360 --> 00:46:13.960
that note, it's always on the
poop note. Yeah, it's always always
608
00:46:13.960 --> 00:46:20.039
going to end with pooh. James, thank you so much for coming on.
609
00:46:20.199 --> 00:46:24.079
I really appreciate it. I loved
I mean, I really appreciated like
610
00:46:24.320 --> 00:46:30.840
learning more. And I'm sure obviously
there's countless more
things I don't know,
611
00:46:31.000 --> 00:46:37.440
but I really enjoyed hearing kind of
the things that went wrong or just the
612
00:46:37.039 --> 00:46:42.760
really interesting things you get asked to
do as the sound designer, you know,
613
00:46:42.960 --> 00:46:45.719
like add a t rex or something. So that was really great.
614
00:46:47.039 --> 00:46:51.719
Thanks. It was my fason beyond
here. It's fun sort of talking about
615
00:46:51.760 --> 00:46:53.519
the story. Normally when I get
interviewed, it's always you know, how
616
00:46:53.559 --> 00:46:57.800
did you make this sound? So
it's kind of nice to be able to
617
00:46:57.840 --> 00:47:00.280
tell the wackier stories. Yeah,
yeah, yeah, that's what this show's
618
00:47:00.320 --> 00:47:06.320
all about, all the everyone's wacky
story. So well, thank you so
619
00:47:06.400 --> 00:47:12.639
much, and good luck with Alaska
Daily and I will look forward to watching
620
00:47:12.679 --> 00:47:20.599
that in February, and good luck
on future projects. And thank you.
621
00:47:21.159 --> 00:47:23.239
Yeah, it was a pleasure.
Thank you so much. Same here.
622
00:47:23.320 --> 00:47:31.400
Thank you. So that was James
David Reading, the third sound designer and
623
00:47:31.599 --> 00:47:37.239
sound effects editor for shows like The
Americans and The Queen's Gambit and The Patient.
624
00:47:39.519 --> 00:47:45.599
That was so interesting, and normally
at this moment in my show,
625
00:47:45.239 --> 00:47:50.920
Tyler would come on and we would
talk about what just happened on the interview
626
00:47:51.480 --> 00:47:57.440
today. And from now on,
I have Maggie Bowls, who was already
627
00:47:57.480 --> 00:48:00.039
on an episode of this Ship that
Happens to Me podcast. I think it
628
00:48:00.079 --> 00:48:06.559
was episode seventy four, being in
Paris. Maggie is now the producer of
629
00:48:06.599 --> 00:48:09.800
my show. Welcome Maggie, how
are you? Hello? Thank you.
630
00:48:10.000 --> 00:48:16.239
I'm doing great. So let's talk
about that episode with James. What did
631
00:48:16.239 --> 00:48:20.800
you think about that? I was
thought that was like I learned so much.
632
00:48:20.880 --> 00:48:23.559
I still don't know what I don't
know, right, Yeah, yeah,
633
00:48:23.639 --> 00:48:30.400
I I never really I don't really
spend a lot of time thinking about
634
00:48:30.440 --> 00:48:34.639
all of that sound design that goes
into TV and movies. But there was
635
00:48:34.679 --> 00:48:38.440
the one he talked about with the
Americans, the scene where they have to
636
00:48:38.440 --> 00:48:44.199
pull the tooth in the Americans,
and I remember watching that scene and how
637
00:48:44.880 --> 00:48:51.159
intense and kind of gross, but
but personal, I don't know I was
638
00:48:51.880 --> 00:48:54.800
that scene thinking about all of the
pieces that went into making that scene feel
639
00:48:54.880 --> 00:48:59.199
less intense as it was. That
was very cool to me. Yeah,
640
00:48:59.239 --> 00:49:02.000
And I think you just don't think
about I mean, I think after you've
641
00:49:02.559 --> 00:49:07.280
listened to this podcast, you're going
to think about it a lot. How
642
00:49:07.119 --> 00:49:10.960
so much sound is added after the
fact. Like think about when you watch
643
00:49:12.039 --> 00:49:15.159
like two characters. You watch a
character on screen in a phone call,
644
00:49:15.599 --> 00:49:19.960
and you can hear the person on
the other end talking. I mean,
645
00:49:19.960 --> 00:49:23.280
that's a really obvious one, but
it's just the seamless part of the show
646
00:49:23.400 --> 00:49:27.360
that you're watching. You just take
it for granted that you can hear what
647
00:49:27.400 --> 00:49:30.840
the other person is saying, but
clearly they've had to add that sound,
648
00:49:30.119 --> 00:49:35.920
right, Yeah, but you also
you might hear a door slam down the
649
00:49:35.920 --> 00:49:40.199
hall boom that's added afterwards. You
might hear someone pull up outside on the
650
00:49:40.239 --> 00:49:46.519
gravel. That sound is added afterwards. Like every single sound is added,
651
00:49:46.679 --> 00:49:51.840
and you just don't even And that's
his job is to make you not even
652
00:49:52.079 --> 00:49:54.559
think about the fact that it's added. Yeah, well, all those little
653
00:49:54.599 --> 00:49:59.199
things, like just like being alive
in the world everywhere you are, all
654
00:49:59.199 --> 00:50:01.519
the little noises that are happening at
all times. That makes something feel real.
655
00:50:02.039 --> 00:50:06.880
You know that all has to be
very intentionally placed, and the like
656
00:50:06.920 --> 00:50:08.719
the levels and where it is.
If it's around sound like you know,
657
00:50:08.719 --> 00:50:13.599
if it's coming from behind you or
the side, or you know, or
658
00:50:13.639 --> 00:50:17.199
like he was talking about the in
the patient when it's upstairs. You know,
659
00:50:17.280 --> 00:50:21.880
how they made that happen, how
they make it feel like it's like
660
00:50:21.920 --> 00:50:25.239
the sound is coming from upstairs.
I think that's that's pretty cool. And
661
00:50:25.239 --> 00:50:30.239
that he's thinking about where a sound, what speaker you're going to hear that
662
00:50:30.400 --> 00:50:35.559
sound from, Like I didn't know
that that he's the one making that sound
663
00:50:35.599 --> 00:50:37.679
come from the back speaker, or
from the back to the front, from
664
00:50:37.760 --> 00:50:40.760
the front to the back, from
the left to the right, the right
665
00:50:40.800 --> 00:50:46.039
to the left. It's obviously it
sounds so technical. I had no idea
666
00:50:46.119 --> 00:50:51.599
that it was something involved. Yeah, what was your favorite part about that?
667
00:50:51.840 --> 00:50:57.360
I mean I think that the the
the tooth pulling thing was really yeah,
668
00:50:57.440 --> 00:50:59.679
right, that that stay. I
mean I already mentioned it, but
669
00:50:59.719 --> 00:51:02.400
that really stood out to me as
because I was like transported back into that
670
00:51:02.480 --> 00:51:07.679
scene, you know, And I
was thinking about he said his wife,
671
00:51:07.679 --> 00:51:10.199
like his wife like closes her eyes, but when she sees it, when
672
00:51:10.239 --> 00:51:13.360
she sees the scene, but she
can still hear it, you know,
673
00:51:13.760 --> 00:51:15.440
And like I think about that all
the time because I hate Gore. I
674
00:51:15.519 --> 00:51:19.960
hate gore in movies, and so
I'll always cover my own eyes if something
675
00:51:20.599 --> 00:51:23.400
scary is happening. But it doesn't
matter if like the noises, the squorshing,
676
00:51:24.039 --> 00:51:28.199
you know, or like the smashing, you know, all of that
677
00:51:28.280 --> 00:51:32.880
stuff. Like the sound contributes so
much to the creepiness of so many things.
678
00:51:34.119 --> 00:51:38.880
So it's it's why I won't watch
a zombie movie because you can cover
679
00:51:38.960 --> 00:51:44.960
your eyes, but you can still
hear them. And I hate the sound
680
00:51:45.000 --> 00:51:51.480
of zombies. I agree. I
also hate the sound of songs. I
681
00:51:51.519 --> 00:51:57.360
loved the story about about that one
director who wanted every bodily function in his
682
00:51:57.440 --> 00:52:01.440
film. That yeah, yeah,
that was so strange. What an odd
683
00:52:01.440 --> 00:52:06.800
request, I know, and that
that's like his little Easter egg. Maybe
684
00:52:06.840 --> 00:52:08.719
he does that in every film.
You know, he didn't want to tell
685
00:52:08.800 --> 00:52:13.840
us who it was, but maybe
he does that in every film he makes.
686
00:52:13.960 --> 00:52:20.079
That would be really bizarre. Go
crosscheck IMDb with directors and yes,
687
00:52:20.480 --> 00:52:23.079
we can figure out who it is. Yeah, let's do that. I'll
688
00:52:23.119 --> 00:52:27.760
literally do that, like we're gonna
say goodbye, and I'm literally gonna go
689
00:52:27.800 --> 00:52:31.320
on and do that. I'll let
you know if I learn anything. Great.
690
00:52:31.480 --> 00:52:39.400
All right, Well, thanks everyone, Thank you Maggie for producing my
691
00:52:39.519 --> 00:52:45.320
show. Now and stay tuned for
more really great and exciting guests, and
692
00:52:45.960 --> 00:52:52.519
don't forget to subscribe, rate,
review the podcast, share with your friends,
693
00:52:52.639 --> 00:52:55.280
tell everyone you know, and we'll
be back in a couple of weeks
694
00:52:55.280 --> 00:53:00.679
for another episode of the Ship that
Happens to Me. Bye bye, Thanks
695
00:53:00.719 --> 00:53:05.199
for listening to my ship. I
really appreciate it. Come back and hear
696
00:53:05.280 --> 00:53:07.159
more shit next time on the Ship
that Happens to Me podcast. Do you
697
00:53:07.199 --> 00:53:12.920
think I've said shit enough for one
podcast episode? Tune in next time to
698
00:53:13.039 --> 00:53:23.519
the Ship that Happens to Me podcasts. You gotta, baby,