Full Transcript for Sci-Fi Musicals Double Feature Tony Awards Preview

it'd be like based on things like Les Miz or Miss Saigon or things like that. 00:05:08.560 --> 00:05:12.160 So it is my only hope that the Schmatz doon. 00:05:12.160 --> 00:05:13.279 Yeah, Schmatz. 00:05:13.279 --> 00:05:29.519 It is my most fervent hope that the Schmigadoonians stage some sort of epic positions and maybe invade in our real world because that seems very fitting for the genre and for this sort of a show. 00:05:29.519 --> 00:05:35.040 Anyway, though, so Schmigadoon, in case you can't tell, Andy and I really like Schmigadoon. 00:05:35.040 --> 00:05:36.480 We really like behind it. 00:05:36.480 --> 00:05:38.560 It's very clever writing. 00:05:39.040 --> 00:05:46.319 Even though I think it's a big cast show, I still would consider it a small musical in a sense. 00:05:46.319 --> 00:05:52.800 So I think it it feels like it has a small musical feel or it has an underdog feel to it. 00:05:53.040 --> 00:06:00.480 So there's nothing practical element as something like Last Boys, or if we if you go back to other kind of big musicals, like from back. 00:06:00.879 --> 00:06:02.160 It feels like shucked. 00:06:02.480 --> 00:06:03.120 Okay, yeah. 00:06:03.120 --> 00:06:03.759 Absolutely. 00:06:03.759 --> 00:06:04.240 That makes sense. 00:06:04.399 --> 00:06:07.680 It or something rotten, it has that like winking at the audience. 00:06:07.680 --> 00:06:12.959 We're in a musical and we know it, which normally I don't enjoy. 00:06:12.959 --> 00:06:18.319 I will caveat and say that's not my favorite genre. 00:06:18.319 --> 00:06:35.839 But I think for Shmigadun, they do something where they're not just winking, but they're winking with so much love for the art form that I don't mind that they're winking and saying, we know we're in a musical and and why are we singing? 00:06:35.839 --> 00:06:36.879 Look, we're singing. 00:06:36.879 --> 00:06:38.319 A lot of times that bothers me. 00:06:38.319 --> 00:06:43.360 We're gonna talk about that when we get to the TV musical episode of this podcast. 00:06:43.360 --> 00:06:46.240 But uh that genre kind of bugs me a lot. 00:06:46.240 --> 00:06:55.279 But I feel like this show, this I've only I haven't seen the stage show, I will admit, but the TV show version does not bother me when they do that. 00:06:55.439 --> 00:07:03.439 Um you have again, we will talk about this later, but these get stuck in a like, how do we stop singing? 00:07:03.439 --> 00:07:06.000 The singing is the bad thing, let's get out of it. 00:07:06.000 --> 00:07:07.600 And why why is singing the bad thing? 00:07:07.600 --> 00:07:08.639 Singing is a great thing. 00:07:08.639 --> 00:07:11.600 I love singing, everybody loves singing, everybody loves musicals all the time. 00:07:11.600 --> 00:07:13.920 100% they should. 00:07:14.000 --> 00:07:15.120 Some people don't, but they should. 00:07:15.439 --> 00:07:17.040 No, everybody loves musicals, they're just wrong. 00:07:17.040 --> 00:07:22.800 All right, I think what Shmigadoon does is it says it's not just like, hey, how can I stop singing? 00:07:22.800 --> 00:07:28.879 It's we have to learn to embrace this musical theater world in order to get back to our own world. 00:07:28.879 --> 00:07:31.199 Yes and I think that's something that's not a lesson. 00:07:31.199 --> 00:07:34.399 It's sometimes they make that turn right at the end. 00:07:34.720 --> 00:07:36.160 Love, love the show. 00:07:36.160 --> 00:07:46.959 Uh so even though they're not sci-fi necessarily, let's talk about the other two nominees, which are uh Titanic and Two Strangers Carry a Cake Across New York. 00:07:46.959 --> 00:07:50.560 So let's talk about Titanic, which so I don't know. 00:07:50.720 --> 00:07:54.959 I'm gonna make the argument that Titanic is science fiction, all right. 00:07:54.959 --> 00:08:02.160 And it is science fiction going by the rule of humans reacting to new technology case, the new technology being a great big freaking boat. 00:08:02.160 --> 00:08:08.319 Love it, love it because think of all the new technologies that the Titanic had to be in order to be the biggest boat at the time. 00:08:08.319 --> 00:08:10.480 Yeah, and then what happens if it sinks? 00:08:10.480 --> 00:08:15.600 Plus, like a lot of disaster film are in that science fiction place anyway. 00:08:15.600 --> 00:08:18.160 Like, what happens when our technologies go wrong? 00:08:18.160 --> 00:08:27.680 Uh when the systems that we have set up in place fail us, and I think that's a very science fictional thing altogether, even if oh no, we're in a forest fire done by completely like regular things. 00:08:27.680 --> 00:08:28.399 How do we escape? 00:08:28.399 --> 00:08:29.279 How do we get out? 00:08:29.279 --> 00:08:33.519 It's like I would say that is a fringe case, even in our like expansive view. 00:08:33.519 --> 00:08:38.480 Titan Titanic, though, I'll say, yeah, I will count that as science fiction for the purposes of this podcast. 00:08:38.480 --> 00:08:39.200 Sure. 00:08:39.200 --> 00:08:43.440 You have a singing iceberg, and I can count animals. 00:08:44.080 --> 00:08:46.639 And singing natural objects. 00:08:46.639 --> 00:08:57.840 I I think that if if you do think about the story of the Titanic like in context, it does feel like larger than life. 00:08:57.840 --> 00:09:14.799 It has captured the like imaginations I'm putting in quotes of people for many years, and it does feel like something fantastical in a way that Doctor Who did Titanic in space. 00:09:14.960 --> 00:09:18.639 So if it's in Doctor Who, it's automatically science fiction, period. 00:09:19.039 --> 00:09:25.279 Okay, so we will count Titanic in our sci-fi genre. 00:09:25.279 --> 00:09:26.320 We're like, why not? 00:09:26.879 --> 00:09:31.360 So, Andy, is this just a straight-up adaptation of Titanic? 00:09:32.159 --> 00:09:33.679 Yeah, absolutely. 00:09:34.240 --> 00:09:35.120 Shot for shot. 00:09:35.120 --> 00:09:39.120 Shot for shot, pay me like one of your French girls. 00:09:39.120 --> 00:09:42.559 100%

Titanic. 00:09:42.559 --> 00:09:42.960 Great. 00:09:43.120 --> 00:09:46.879 Oh, yeah, complete with a Celine Dion narrator. 00:09:46.879 --> 00:09:48.480 Yes. 00:09:48.799 --> 00:09:49.840 That's how it's different. 00:09:50.639 --> 00:09:51.440 No, it's a parody. 00:09:51.440 --> 00:09:52.879 It's a parody. 00:09:52.879 --> 00:09:59.919 Uh, again, I have not had the beautiful opportunity of seeing this amazing show. 00:09:59.919 --> 00:10:20.720 But yeah, the idea is that Celine Dion has hijacked the tour of the Titanic Museum, and then she uh claims to have survived the actual sinking of the ship, and then narrates her version of what really happened to all the characters in the movie Titanic. 00:10:20.720 --> 00:10:30.720 It's super camp, it's a lot of references to modern things like drag race and other pop culture things. 00:10:30.720 --> 00:10:35.120 It's one of those shows that's been on my list because it was off Broadway for a long time. 00:10:35.120 --> 00:10:35.519 Yeah. 00:10:35.519 --> 00:11:03.440 And it's really exciting that it that's such a show like this, like similar, I think, like to Oh Mary, where it's just so gay and like so insanely camp, like that it made it to Broadway, like being so like quirky and fringe and out of the box, like it's just like heartening to see something as kooky and weird get to the Broadway stage, is exciting. 00:11:03.440 --> 00:11:05.759 So I hope it runs a million years. 00:11:06.000 --> 00:11:10.879 And the fact that this one took the route from like little quirky off-Broadway show, parody musical. 00:11:11.120 --> 00:11:13.120 Yeah, it's a parody bona fide on Broadway. 00:11:13.120 --> 00:11:20.399 So we've got two parody musicals up for the Tony Awards, which is really crazy, like to think about. 00:11:20.399 --> 00:11:23.840 But at the same time, like Avenue Q beat Wicked. 00:11:23.840 --> 00:11:25.200 So which precedence for that. 00:11:25.200 --> 00:11:31.120 So yeah, who knows if Titanic can run away with the Tony, like I won't be sad about that. 00:11:31.120 --> 00:11:34.720 Unfortunately, though, I think this is where the sci-fi streak runs out because too much. 00:11:34.720 --> 00:11:53.600 It does carry a case and I think that the most likely candidate for winning, because the Tony does love a small, tiny, two-person musical, I think that it rewards surprising new original emerging voices. 00:11:54.000 --> 00:11:54.559 Okay, I'm sure. 00:11:55.360 --> 00:12:03.679 So although that's not a hundred percent always the case, musicals are often come from adaptation. 00:12:03.679 --> 00:12:07.200 So adapting something doesn't get punished. 00:12:07.200 --> 00:12:21.919 But I think that if there can be something that comes from an original source and it works, I think that usually creators are given a little boost for that as well. 00:12:22.320 --> 00:12:25.360 It's like doing a show without a safety net in some ways. 00:12:25.360 --> 00:12:29.120 Like writing any original show is just harder than adapting. 00:12:29.440 --> 00:12:36.240 So yeah, whereas the rest of these are based on source material of some kind, right? 00:12:36.240 --> 00:12:36.480 Yeah. 00:12:36.480 --> 00:12:38.879 Two being literal parody musicals. 00:12:38.879 --> 00:12:41.679 Two strangers carry a cake across New York about. 00:12:41.679 --> 00:12:42.639 What is the price of this? 00:12:42.639 --> 00:12:43.759 Is it about? 00:12:43.759 --> 00:12:45.360 I'm across New York. 00:12:45.360 --> 00:12:45.759 Okay. 00:12:45.759 --> 00:12:46.159 Yes. 00:12:46.159 --> 00:13:04.720 Okay, so there's uh an English guy who flies to New York for his father's wedding, and uh the sister of the bride is picking him up at the airport, and he goes with her to pick up the wedding cake. 00:13:04.720 --> 00:13:05.440 That's it. 00:13:05.759 --> 00:13:06.960 That is the entire premise. 00:13:07.279 --> 00:13:09.279 Um and it's just two people in this musical, right? 00:13:09.279 --> 00:13:10.080 Yes. 00:13:10.080 --> 00:13:30.799 The other thing about Two Strangers is it's British, so you have that sort of British invasion tradition coming in with this one because there's which we'll see in the revivals as well, there is a tradition of British musicals having a home on the New York stage, and this represents that trend as well. 00:13:31.440 --> 00:13:31.759 Okay. 00:13:31.759 --> 00:13:42.720 So in addition to the large sci-fi takeover of the best musical category, and when we get to uh best revival, we're really gonna have a good time with that. 00:13:42.720 --> 00:13:50.480 But I'm gonna say that of these four musicals, we're seeing four very different approaches to musical theater in 2026. 00:13:50.480 --> 00:13:57.360 There is the very large corporate-driven movie musical adaptation, and that is The Lost Boys. 00:13:57.360 --> 00:14:18.480 We see uh the uh the popular uh older, old school inspired golden age musical kind of thing that was also highly well known because it was on television first, that is made it to Broadway and is a musical comedy and is a little bit winking toward the audience. 00:14:18.480 --> 00:14:25.440 So the path that one took was from television land onto Broadway, and not necessarily the same path as a Lost Boys film, right? 00:14:25.440 --> 00:14:26.480 It's also very new. 00:14:26.480 --> 00:14:31.360 Shimiga Dune has come out within the past 10 years, whereas Lost Boys is a film from the 1980s. 00:14:31.360 --> 00:14:36.879 Then we have Titanic, which follows along with all of these parody musicals that are going off Broadway. 00:14:36.879 --> 00:14:42.639 Uh things that we've named a bunch of them here, but even things like the Bridgerton musical or Rabbitoui the musical. 00:14:42.639 --> 00:14:45.840 Heated rivalry, the parody that's heated rivalry of the parody. 00:14:45.840 --> 00:14:46.720 Our friend Dylan. 00:14:46.720 --> 00:14:47.919 Dylan. 00:14:47.919 --> 00:14:52.879 So we see this whole explosion of parody musicals that are happening there.

00:14:52.879 --> 00:14:57.840 Maybe because the rights of shows are just so difficult to get now for new writers, and so there's a good path in. 00:14:57.840 --> 00:15:07.120 So, in terms of just business model of musical theater right now, I think that this presents a fascinating snapshot about just where we are in the industry. 00:15:07.120 --> 00:15:14.240 That these are the four musicals that are being allotted as the uh the nominees for the best of the musicals this past year. 00:15:14.480 --> 00:15:16.720 And we got sci-fi representing right up front. 00:15:16.720 --> 00:15:17.279 We love that. 00:15:17.279 --> 00:15:18.080 Love to see it. 00:15:18.639 --> 00:15:20.240 Geeky Little Heart Flutterer. 00:15:20.240 --> 00:15:21.120 I love it. 00:15:21.440 --> 00:15:26.879 So let's go to Best Revival because this is where we are stacked. 00:15:27.200 --> 00:15:30.720 We've got three shows in the best revival of a musical category. 00:15:30.720 --> 00:15:33.679 And I'm gonna argue that we are three for three for sci-fi. 00:15:34.080 --> 00:15:34.480 100%. 00:15:35.039 --> 00:15:46.399 We've got cats, the jellical ball, which is the a hyped up queer representation version of cats that is set at a ballroom scene. 00:15:46.399 --> 00:15:51.279 Yes, it's so much fun, it is amazing and quirky. 00:15:51.279 --> 00:15:58.080 And Andy, what you were saying about Corey for queer representation on Broadway, this is dialed up to not even 11. 00:15:58.080 --> 00:15:58.559 11. 00:16:00.399 --> 00:16:01.200 1100. 00:16:01.200 --> 00:16:02.080 Yes. 00:16:02.639 --> 00:16:07.679 As high as you can go with the queer representation, cats is it, and it is a blast. 00:16:07.679 --> 00:16:09.440 It is a good time out there. 00:16:09.679 --> 00:16:21.360 I've never seen a theater house full of people up on their feet screaming and yelling and just enjoying themselves as much as I have at Pats. 00:16:21.360 --> 00:16:27.279 Like I was just in shock at how much fun every single person in the room was having. 00:16:27.759 --> 00:16:29.039 Why is this one sci-fi? 00:16:29.360 --> 00:16:33.279 Because the original is talking about and the heavy side layer. 00:16:33.519 --> 00:16:36.159 Yeah, space and incarnation. 00:16:36.639 --> 00:16:39.759 It's just inherently like out there. 00:16:39.759 --> 00:16:41.840 It can't not be sci-fi to me. 00:16:41.840 --> 00:16:45.840 We're gonna be talking about this in depth next season. 00:16:45.840 --> 00:16:48.960 So we'll save this main discussion for then. 00:16:48.960 --> 00:16:52.720 We'll leave it at the this is sci-fi and we'll get into it. 00:16:53.200 --> 00:16:55.919 Second nominee is ragtime. 00:16:55.919 --> 00:17:02.480 And this is set canonically in early 20th century. 00:17:02.480 --> 00:17:06.720 Um it is uh it is about a historical moment in American history. 00:17:07.119 --> 00:17:08.160 Race and class, right? 00:17:08.160 --> 00:17:09.440 It's not about sci-fi. 00:17:10.480 --> 00:17:12.480 Race and class is never in

sci-fi. 00:17:12.480 --> 00:17:13.359 Yeah. 00:17:13.359 --> 00:17:15.359 So why is this science fiction? 00:17:15.359 --> 00:17:28.559 The fiction part is easy because technically none of this happened, even if there are certain historical figures that are present in work, like Henry Ford is in there, and Emma Goldman, and uh we get Evelyn Nesbitt in a very famous turn. 00:17:28.559 --> 00:17:36.960 And if we're going by the idea that science fiction is humans reacting to new technologies, then this is 100% science fiction. 00:17:36.960 --> 00:17:40.400 Major parts of the plot revolve around the model T. 00:17:40.400 --> 00:17:47.039 Ford winding up with Colehouse Walker and him buying the car for his future and his family's future. 00:17:47.039 --> 00:17:57.119 We also get ideas about mass media and new political systems coming in and the rise of factories and inequality, and those things are all very science fictional ideas. 00:17:57.119 --> 00:17:59.839 Plus, warn the Duke. 00:17:59.839 --> 00:18:08.240 We have one character who is aware of the future and can tell the future and is trying to warn anybody who will listen about the oncoming World War One. 00:18:08.240 --> 00:18:16.319 So you get this subplot going on here where the main character of the show is psychic, and that is totally there. 00:18:16.400 --> 00:18:16.960 You go. 00:18:16.960 --> 00:18:21.359 That's our uh tagline on this show. 00:18:21.359 --> 00:18:22.880 Ragtime is sci-fi. 00:18:22.880 --> 00:18:35.279 Actually, sci-fi, actually, and then of course, the final uh show in this revival category is Richard O'Brien's The Rocky Horror Show. 00:18:35.279 --> 00:18:39.440 Oh my god, this show made me gay. 00:18:39.440 --> 00:18:44.559 They always say, Don't let your kids watch those movies, they'll turn them gay. 00:18:44.559 --> 00:18:45.599 Yes, that happened. 00:18:45.599 --> 00:18:52.880 I don't know how many times I did the time warp in high school, but at one point I jumped to the left and I never stepped to the right again. 00:18:52.880 --> 00:19:10.240 So, yes, I can also say that there are a lot of problematic things about the show, but ultimately it's a formative piece of culture for myself and many in my generation. 00:19:10.240 --> 00:19:18.240 Um, and so it's exciting to see it back on stage and with an amazing cast. 00:19:18.240 --> 00:19:22.079 Again, my boy Andrew Durant is playing Brad. 00:19:22.079 --> 00:19:28.160 Uh as I've mentioned before, we grew up in the same community theater back in Georgia. 00:19:28.160 --> 00:19:30.079 And there's just the cast. 00:19:30.079 --> 00:19:34.960 I'm not gonna call out everyone in the cast, it's really stacked. 00:19:35.279 --> 00:19:36.640 So, why is this science fiction? 00:19:36.640 --> 00:19:50.880 Because you've got this strange group of aliens who are there to blow your mind and blow your gender, and there are space police and freeze rays, and uh there are individuals who've been created, like created people, like the golem kind of a thing. 00:19:50.880 --> 00:19:55.599 Um so we've got like this is sci-fi through and through, 100%. 00:19:56.559 --> 00:20:02.079 Yeah, and there's some questions about casting, who should play Dr. 00:20:02.079 --> 00:20:06.000 Frankenfurter, and that's always been controversial. 00:20:06.000 --> 00:20:14.480 I think ultimately if it's something that is a problem uh for you, like that's respectable. 00:20:14.480 --> 00:20:19.599 And I say don't see the show, don't support something that you don't agree with. 00:20:19.599 --> 00:20:24.559 I think that it's one of those shows that's like my problematic fame. 00:20:24.559 --> 00:20:24.960 I don't know. 00:20:24.960 --> 00:20:35.200 I'm on the fence about seeing it for some of those reasons, but I'm excited that it can be the kind of show that brings joy to a lot of people. 00:20:35.200 --> 00:20:43.599 Personally, I want to celebrate a show like like Cats, which also has a lot of problems historically. 00:20:44.000 --> 00:20:46.160 Let's just three of the revivals have their problems. 00:20:46.160 --> 00:20:47.839 Yeah, ragtime as well. 00:20:48.079 --> 00:20:55.440 Like exactly King of Ragtime is really depressing and upsetting and and like trauma porn. 00:20:55.440 --> 00:21:01.119 And Cats has a history of really racist sections of it. 00:21:01.119 --> 00:21:07.039 I believe most of them, if hopefully all of them, have been removed by now. 00:21:07.039 --> 00:21:11.359 Uh, it doesn't erase the pain that they have caused. 00:21:11.359 --> 00:21:17.039 I'm not saying that those things don't make the shows like have issues. 00:21:17.039 --> 00:21:18.480 That's the thing about revivals. 00:21:19.039 --> 00:21:35.359 I believe that's also why we're big proponents in new musical theater, is because there are a lot of these like problematic faves that we love that we like are inspired by, and yet we also recognize that these are like things that have real problems and that don't carry the messages that like we believe in. 00:21:35.359 --> 00:21:35.839 Exactly. 00:21:35.839 --> 00:21:48.720 So I think that's a big reason why we are writers is because we can be using these things that we love, but putting them in uh in better ways that like more reflect our values as human beings and the world see. 00:21:49.359 --> 00:21:59.440 So on this podcast, we want to stay positive, and so sometimes we don't want to focus on like the negative things about these shows, but we also don't want to gloss over them either. 00:21:59.440 --> 00:22:05.839 So I just wanted to mention we know it would be disingenuous of us to have real problems to them. 00:22:05.839 --> 00:22:14.559 Yeah, and we want to respect it's the right of everyone to say, yeah, I don't like that show for like totally fair reasons. 00:22:14.559 --> 00:22:20.799 But we're also excited that we have three sci-fi musicals in the celebrate that. 00:22:20.799 --> 00:22:23.039 In the best revival category. 00:22:23.599 --> 00:22:32.319 Now

I'm gonna talk about Katz for one more second, and that's that you can see another trend going on in the theater world just by Katz's inclusion in this, too. 00:22:32.319 --> 00:22:41.279 Is that Andrew Lloyd Weber seems to be having a moment where his works are getting reimagined to these very different contexts from how they were originally put on. 00:22:41.279 --> 00:22:53.920 So we have uh very recently on Broadway, we have Sunset Boulevard, which was this stripped down, gritty, bloody version of it that had still interesting kinds of effects without the gigantic scenery budget going on for it. 00:22:53.920 --> 00:23:02.319 We've got Phantom, which like after its record-breaking, like decades-long run on Broadway closed down. 00:23:02.319 --> 00:23:12.240 Then within a few years, it was back running again in New York in an off-Broadway house where it's this immersive production with the phantom, the masquerade. 00:23:12.240 --> 00:23:12.559 Yeah. 00:23:14.319 --> 00:23:15.839 It's not even an off-Broadway house. 00:23:15.839 --> 00:23:43.039 It's literally a shop, it's literally an art store that they recreated into this immersive space where yeah, there are six different phantoms that audiences follow around with within 15-minute increments, and each audience gets a full show that they follow these different phantoms through through the story. 00:23:43.039 --> 00:23:44.640 And it's totally immersive. 00:23:44.640 --> 00:23:51.039 Diane Paulis directed it, and so it's very much like Sleep No More, but like it's phantom. 00:23:51.359 --> 00:23:53.839 You also have something like a Vita, which is coming to Broadway next season. 00:23:53.839 --> 00:23:54.960 Yes, I'm so excited. 00:23:54.960 --> 00:24:08.880 So yeah, I think Angeloid Weber has this like newfound renaissance now because Angeloid Weber is very distinctly musical theater. 00:24:08.880 --> 00:24:13.519 You sing Android Weber's stuff in your life, and your aunt and Peoria will be like, oh, I know this show. 00:24:13.519 --> 00:24:16.480 So I see that trend happening now, too, with cats. 00:24:16.480 --> 00:24:19.680 And I think that really continues on with this sort of a thing. 00:24:20.079 --> 00:24:25.039 I and I think what's also really cool about cats is they didn't really change the music. 00:24:25.519 --> 00:24:37.279 Cats, the Jellicle Ball redoing its orchestrations, in one sense, is very typical of just what happens anytime that any show has a revival, has a new production anywhere in the world. 00:24:37.279 --> 00:24:42.960 But then this particular one is interesting because that re-orchestration goes along with the reimagining of it. 00:24:43.359 --> 00:24:46.079 Yeah, but I'm saying they didn't change it that much. 00:24:46.079 --> 00:24:46.559 Yeah. 00:24:46.559 --> 00:24:52.480 And my point is that all the people that said, Oh, I hate cats, I'm like, you're watching the same show. 00:24:52.480 --> 00:24:54.319 Like you just hated the costumes. 00:24:54.720 --> 00:25:00.799 So what cats did was that they left everything in place, basically, and had the orchestrator come in and change things. 00:25:00.799 --> 00:25:05.039 If they wanted to change the music, then it would be probably an arranger who would come in. 00:25:05.359 --> 00:25:10.640 Plus, uh Android Weber is credited for best orchestrations for the Tony Awards. 00:25:10.640 --> 00:25:16.400 He was heavily involved in any orchestrations that they did for this revival. 00:25:16.400 --> 00:25:27.839 And pretty much everything to me sounds the same as any version of cats that I've heard because I think his fingerprints were still all over it. 00:25:27.839 --> 00:25:32.000 And I will say that there are lots of different versions of cats. 00:25:32.000 --> 00:25:36.559 We're gonna talk about Starlight Express in a couple episodes. 00:25:36.559 --> 00:25:42.720 There are like a million different versions of Starlight Express, but they all sound like Starlight Express. 00:25:42.720 --> 00:25:46.880 They all sound like Andrew Lloyd Weber because he did all those versions. 00:25:46.880 --> 00:25:55.200 And so my point about cats is that whatever you do to the orchestrations, the music is still Andrew Lloyd Weber. 00:25:55.200 --> 00:25:58.720 It's still basically the show is the show. 00:25:58.720 --> 00:26:08.000 And all the people that are cats haters need to look at themselves in the mirror and say, Do I just hate leotards? 00:26:08.000 --> 00:26:11.440 What do I really hate about this show? 00:26:11.440 --> 00:26:16.960 Because now they're coming, now people are coming back and saying, Oh, I love cats, but I don't know. 00:26:16.960 --> 00:26:18.880 I hated it before and now I love it. 00:26:18.880 --> 00:26:20.880 Girl, it's the same show. 00:26:22.079 --> 00:26:26.880 And I think that is very much the power of the sort of recontextualizing the older work. 00:26:26.880 --> 00:26:27.359 Yeah. 00:26:27.359 --> 00:26:36.000 That you can make people who think of the old work as being musty as coming to the table with this new stuff and being like, oh no, this is actually very cool. 00:26:36.000 --> 00:26:38.720 I hate the old work, but the new stuff is great, even though it's the same thing. 00:26:38.880 --> 00:26:39.119 Yeah. 00:26:39.119 --> 00:26:42.160 For those of us who have always loved it, yeah, it is awesome. 00:26:42.160 --> 00:26:43.440 So booyah. 00:26:43.440 --> 00:26:46.079 But also welcome. 00:26:46.079 --> 00:26:47.759 Yes, you can join us. 00:26:47.759 --> 00:26:54.720 I don't know what else I can say about the Tony Awards, except that I won't be sad for any of this. 00:26:54.720 --> 00:26:59.359 The only sadness is that Chess didn't get nominated, but I would still want cats to win. 00:26:59.359 --> 00:27:05.440 So and if ragtime or Rocky Horror wins, I'm okay with that. 00:27:05.440 --> 00:27:10.160 And all the best musicals, I would be happy for any of them to win. 00:27:10.160 --> 00:27:19.440 If you have the means to get out and see

any of these shows, I would go ahead and buy those tickets before the Tony Awards on June 7th. 00:27:19.440 --> 00:27:25.200 Um because if anybody wins, it's going to be tough to get those tickets after that time. 00:27:25.680 --> 00:27:38.319 I love the Tonys because not only are they just this perfect little snapshot of where you're at in a Broadway season, and it's a really great way for any of these shows to puncture into mainstream culture for a little bit. 00:27:38.799 --> 00:27:38.960 Yeah. 00:27:38.960 --> 00:27:46.799 And then I also wanted to congratulate all the uh the performers who have been nominated for sci-fi musicals. 00:27:46.799 --> 00:27:53.680 Luke Evans for Frankenfurter in Rocky Horror, Josh Henry for Cole House Walker Jr. 00:27:53.680 --> 00:28:05.519 in Ragtime, and Brandon Uranowitz for Tata in Ragtime are our sci-fi nominees for leading actor in a musical. 00:28:05.519 --> 00:28:23.119 Then we've got Sarah Chase as Melissa Gimbal in Schmigadoon, Stephanie Tzu as Janet Weiss in Rocky Horror, which Stephanie was in Be More Chill, Cassie Levy as a mother in ragtime, and Marla Mendel as Celine Dion in Titanic. 00:28:23.119 --> 00:28:28.319 Those are all best performance by a leading actress in a musical. 00:28:28.319 --> 00:28:30.640 Those are our sci-fi nominees. 00:28:30.640 --> 00:28:34.160 And then best performance by a featured actor in a musical. 00:28:34.160 --> 00:28:38.880 We've got Ali Lewis Borz Borsgue. 00:28:38.880 --> 00:28:41.039 Oh my gosh, I'm butchering that. 00:28:41.039 --> 00:28:48.960 As David and The Lost Boys, Andre DeShields as Old Deuteronomy and Cats, the Jellico Ball, Ben Lee V. 00:28:48.960 --> 00:28:52.319 Ross as Mother's Youngest Brother in Ragtime. 00:28:52.319 --> 00:28:59.119 And as you mentioned, Leyton Williams as the icebergslash seman in Titanic. 00:28:59.119 --> 00:29:03.359 Then Best Performance by a featured actress in a musical. 00:29:03.359 --> 00:29:07.680 We've got Shoshana Bean as Lucy Emerson in The Lost Boys. 00:29:07.680 --> 00:29:08.640 Love her. 00:29:08.640 --> 00:29:12.960 Rachel Dratch as the narrator in Rocky Horror. 00:29:12.960 --> 00:29:17.200 Anna Gasdyer as Mildred Leighton in Shmigadoon. 00:29:17.200 --> 00:29:20.000 And then Nichelle Lewis as Sarah in Ragtime. 00:29:20.000 --> 00:29:21.759 She is incredible. 00:29:21.759 --> 00:29:26.160 I don't know who's gonna win in that category, but I couldn't even guess. 00:29:26.559 --> 00:29:27.920 Very competitive category. 00:29:28.079 --> 00:29:28.720 Uh I know. 00:29:28.720 --> 00:29:30.960 And then I just want to shout out directors. 00:29:30.960 --> 00:29:45.599 We got Michael Arden for Lost Boys, Lear de Bessonet for Ragtime, Christopher Gately for Shmega Dune, and Zelon Livingston and Bill Rausch for Cats the Jellico Ball. 00:29:45.599 --> 00:29:47.200 And then, you know what? 00:29:47.200 --> 00:29:49.200 I'm gonna shout out all the writers. 00:29:49.200 --> 00:29:55.119 And I'm gonna shout out all the writers because we're writers. 00:29:55.119 --> 00:29:58.240 So best book nominees. 00:29:58.240 --> 00:30:04.079 We've got Cinco Paul for Schmigadoon and Love Him again because of the TV show. 00:30:04.079 --> 00:30:12.799 Chris Hawk and David Hornsby, who I love because of Always Sunny and Mythic Quest and all his TV work. 00:30:12.799 --> 00:30:14.240 I'm a huge TV fan. 00:30:14.240 --> 00:30:24.000 But anyway, they wrote Lost Boys, Ty Blue, Marla Mandel, who plays Celine Dion, and Constantine Rizzuli for Titanic. 00:30:24.000 --> 00:30:30.640 And Jim Barne and Kit Buchin for Two Strangers Carry a Cake across New York. 00:30:30.640 --> 00:30:35.119 Then for Best Original Score, Music and or Lyrics Written for the Theater. 00:30:35.119 --> 00:30:38.480 Now, this also includes for plays. 00:30:38.480 --> 00:30:44.480 Maybe people don't know that you can be nominated for Best Original Score for a play. 00:30:44.480 --> 00:30:51.200 So there's only three musicals nominated for best original score and two plays. 00:30:51.200 --> 00:31:00.160 So The Rescues, who did music and lyrics for Lost Boys, Cinco Paul, who also wrote the book as well as music and lyrics for Schmigadune. 00:31:00.160 --> 00:31:06.000 And Jim Barne and Kit Buchan, who wrote music and lyrics for Two Strangers Carry a Cake Across New York. 00:31:06.000 --> 00:31:10.720 Steve Barganetti wrote music for Joe Turner's Come and Gone, which is a play. 00:31:10.720 --> 00:31:15.680 And then Caroline Shaw wrote the music for The Revival of Death of a Salesman. 00:31:16.000 --> 00:31:20.559 I'm going to say that Caroline Shaw is one of my favorite contemporary classical composers. 00:31:20.559 --> 00:31:26.079 Her stuff is so cool and powerful and always interesting to listen to. 00:31:26.319 --> 00:31:32.720 I can't do all the categories, but congratulations to all the designers as well and everyone. 00:31:32.720 --> 00:31:33.680 Okay, I lied. 00:31:33.680 --> 00:31:37.440 I'm going to do best orchestrations because we talked about it. 00:31:37.440 --> 00:31:46.960 So we mentioned already for Cat's Jellicle Ball, we have Trevor Holder, Doug Shat, Android Weber, and David Wilson. 00:31:46.960 --> 00:31:49.279 Also, Lost Boys has a bunch of folks. 00:31:49.279 --> 00:31:55.759 Kyler England, Adrian Gonzalez, Ethan Pop, and Gabriel Mann for Lost Boys. 00:31:55.759 --> 00:31:59.359 Doug Besterman and Mike Morris for Schmigadoon. 00:31:59.359 --> 00:32:02.160 Lux Pyramid for Two Strangers. 00:32:02.160 --> 00:32:04.640 And Brian Yusuf for Chess. 00:32:04.640 --> 00:32:07.920 Yay for best orchestrations. 00:32:07.920 --> 00:32:13.119 Again, okay, I have to stop because we're just gonna list every single Tony Awards. 00:32:13.119 --> 00:32:23.759 Welcome to our interview portion of the episode. 00:32:23.759 --> 00:32:31.519 We are here now with some of the creators of a new musical called The Brass Teapot. 00:32:31.519 --> 00:32:48.400 So we have with us Tim Macy, a book writer, and uh Chaz Cardigan,

music and lyrics, and Eric Caico, who is a co-conceiver and producer on the show. 00:32:48.400 --> 00:32:48.880 Yeah. 00:32:48.880 --> 00:32:50.319 So welcome everyone. 00:32:50.319 --> 00:32:52.079 Thanks for being here today. 00:32:52.640 --> 00:32:53.039 Thanks. 00:32:54.400 --> 00:33:02.000 And if you can just go around like the first time you're talking to say who you are so that our audio listeners at home can get a sense of connecting the uh name to the voice. 00:33:02.000 --> 00:33:02.960 Sure thing done. 00:33:02.960 --> 00:33:04.960 This is Chess Cardigan, the composer. 00:33:04.960 --> 00:33:06.400 Perfect. 00:33:06.400 --> 00:33:06.799 Thank you. 00:33:07.039 --> 00:33:08.720 Yeah, and I'm uh Tim Macy. 00:33:08.720 --> 00:33:10.160 I'm one of the book writers. 00:33:10.160 --> 00:33:13.279 Uh the other book writer is Rama Mosley, who's not with us today. 00:33:13.359 --> 00:33:14.720 She's busy directing. 00:33:14.720 --> 00:33:16.000 I'm Tim. 00:33:16.000 --> 00:33:17.599 Hi, I'm Eric Keiko. 00:33:17.599 --> 00:33:20.400 I'm the co-conceiver slash one of the producers. 00:33:20.400 --> 00:33:24.160 I think I watched the film in 2014. 00:33:24.160 --> 00:33:29.759 It was probably the following year, Tim, that I emailed probably 11 years ago that this process really started. 00:33:29.759 --> 00:33:30.319 Yeah. 00:33:30.480 --> 00:33:30.799 Yeah. 00:33:31.279 --> 00:33:48.400 So speaking of the film, let's go all the way back and talk about uh how this project started, a little bit about the story and what made it move from different forms that it's been in to the musical that it is today. 00:33:48.799 --> 00:33:49.519 Yeah, for sure. 00:33:49.519 --> 00:33:54.640 I was actually still finishing my MFA when I wrote the short story. 00:33:54.640 --> 00:33:56.559 I just wrote it just to write it. 00:33:56.559 --> 00:33:58.079 It wasn't for any reason. 00:33:58.079 --> 00:33:59.519 I just had this idea. 00:33:59.519 --> 00:34:11.360 The premise of the brass teapot is a young couple struggling financially finds an antique teapot that gives them money when they hurt themselves and spirals from there. 00:34:11.360 --> 00:34:11.920 Right. 00:34:11.920 --> 00:34:17.679 When I was like 23, maybe, I was in a relationship and we were pretty broke and we were fighting all the time. 00:34:17.679 --> 00:34:26.000 And just this concept of man, if we could get paid to fight, or if we could get paid for this difficulty, sprung in my mind, and I wrote that story from a very real place. 00:34:26.000 --> 00:34:26.639 Absolutely. 00:34:26.639 --> 00:34:29.920 And I published it on a website East of the Web, it was called. 00:34:29.920 --> 00:34:33.199 It was a big short story website, and got a lot of attention. 00:34:33.199 --> 00:34:37.519 And a lot of high school kids started making their projects based on the story. 00:34:37.519 --> 00:34:42.639 They were making these short films that were all over YouTube, these couples hurting themselves and these magic teapots. 00:34:42.639 --> 00:34:44.480 I met Rama, who's a director. 00:34:44.480 --> 00:34:46.639 She read the story and reached out to me. 00:34:46.639 --> 00:34:51.039 And pretty soon I was writing the screenplay, and she was set to direct. 00:34:51.039 --> 00:34:52.639 And we made the movie. 00:34:52.639 --> 00:34:56.639 The movie took a little less time than it's taken to get the musical on a seat, but it took a long time, also. 00:34:56.639 --> 00:34:58.239 It's been a very long process. 00:34:58.239 --> 00:35:00.639 And Rama and I got the movie made. 00:35:00.639 --> 00:35:03.679 We shot in upstate New York in 2012. 00:35:03.679 --> 00:35:06.559 It premiered at the Toronto Film Festival. 00:35:06.559 --> 00:35:08.239 I think it was 2013. 00:35:08.239 --> 00:35:09.760 It was a great experience. 00:35:09.760 --> 00:35:12.559 And since then it's gained this international following. 00:35:12.559 --> 00:35:14.239 It's big in China. 00:35:14.239 --> 00:35:18.960 They made a shot-for-shot remake in China without permission, whatever. 00:35:18.960 --> 00:35:20.960 And Eric discovered it from there. 00:35:20.960 --> 00:35:22.480 And I'll pass it over to Eric. 00:35:22.880 --> 00:35:23.840 It was 2014. 00:35:23.840 --> 00:35:26.639 It was the week before I was about to get married here in Chicago. 00:35:26.639 --> 00:35:32.960 We were staying at my sister-in-law's place because we were living in New York at the time, but getting married in Chicago, and we were just looking for something to watch. 00:35:32.960 --> 00:35:34.719 The brass heat belt was on Netflix. 00:35:34.719 --> 00:35:35.679 I'd never heard of it. 00:35:35.679 --> 00:35:37.119 It looked cool. 00:35:37.119 --> 00:35:45.360 And when I watched it, my big takeaways were these questions of how far would you go to take care of those that you love, right? 00:35:45.360 --> 00:35:55.360 To hold on to a life of comfort and to attain a status of what you think your life should be when you compare yourself to other couples and your peers. 00:35:55.360 --> 00:35:58.639 And this could be career-wise, it could be like life milestone-wise. 00:35:58.639 --> 00:36:02.000 And months went by and this story and these questions stayed in my head. 00:36:02.000 --> 00:36:07.679 And I just thought this would be the type of unexpected, weird musical that I would want to see. 00:36:07.679 --> 00:36:09.599 So why not try and make it? 00:36:09.599 --> 00:36:10.000 Right. 00:36:10.000 --> 00:36:20.320 And so I Googled, I found this digital footprint like Tim was describing of the lore and this kind of community that had grown around the story and the subsequent film. 00:36:20.320 --> 00:36:26.960 And got an email address and just sent a cold email and said, Hey, I've never produced anything in real life before. 00:36:26.960 --> 00:36:28.639 I'm not expecting to hear anything. 00:36:28.639 --> 00:36:35.199 And then not much time went by before I got an email response from Rama saying, Hey, to your question

of who owns the rights. 00:36:35.199 --> 00:36:35.519 We do. 00:36:35.519 --> 00:36:37.840 The creators of the film, to me, see and myself. 00:36:37.840 --> 00:36:39.760 Yes, we thought about dramatizing it. 00:36:39.760 --> 00:36:42.719 There have been other sort of similar inquiries that haven't happened yet. 00:36:42.719 --> 00:36:46.400 We'd love to learn more about you and see if you're the right person to take this on. 00:36:46.400 --> 00:36:48.559 And then years went by, Tim, right? 00:36:48.559 --> 00:36:52.559 Emailing back and forth, like life happens, job transition happened. 00:36:52.559 --> 00:36:54.719 Ultimately, uh we all decided to work together. 00:36:54.719 --> 00:36:56.639 And that was five years after that. 00:36:56.639 --> 00:36:57.840 That was 2019. 00:36:57.840 --> 00:36:59.920 And so we were making plans. 00:36:59.920 --> 00:37:07.440 Uh Tim and Rama were drafting an initial book of sort of placeholders for the music because we were also looking for that last all-important missing piece. 00:37:07.440 --> 00:37:18.079 Um for a while we were pursuing just more traditional musical career writers and writing teams, and uh things weren't hitting and things weren't gelling in the way that we wanted them to for the tone of this particular piece. 00:37:18.079 --> 00:37:20.239 And so we started looking to the music industry. 00:37:20.239 --> 00:37:24.719 And my friend who's a music supervisor in LA, uh, Amanda Cree Thomas. 00:37:24.719 --> 00:37:27.760 And so I said, Hey, this is your world that I don't know anything about. 00:37:27.760 --> 00:37:37.679 Are there people in your network who you think uh might take to this uh tone, this theatricality, and this dark uh comedy that also has these supernatural elements? 00:37:37.679 --> 00:37:40.480 And she was like, I've got a short list for you. 00:37:40.480 --> 00:37:43.199 And thank goodness on that short list was Chaz Cardigan. 00:37:43.599 --> 00:37:44.800 Chaz, what did you say to that? 00:37:44.800 --> 00:37:50.880 I had been a recording artist for most of my life at that point. 00:37:50.880 --> 00:38:04.559 And at that time, this is the year 2020, maybe 2019, end of 2019, somewhere in there, yeah, end of 19, I think, I was signed to a major label at the time. 00:38:04.559 --> 00:38:11.440 And so the gears were all churning and the machine was really working in my favor, which is a very short-lived thing, and you have to make the most of it while it happens. 00:38:11.440 --> 00:38:20.400 At that time, my publisher sets up a meeting with this music supervisor under the pretense of, yeah, do you want to write a song for like the show Big Mouth? 00:38:20.400 --> 00:38:24.480 Or do you want to write a song for insert Hulu show here? 00:38:24.480 --> 00:38:28.880 To which the answer was always yes, because I would like to work and I like to work. 00:38:28.880 --> 00:38:31.039 I didn't really come from a theater background. 00:38:31.039 --> 00:38:32.800 I'd done theater once in high

school. 00:38:32.800 --> 00:38:34.719 I loved it, but I didn't study the canon. 00:38:34.719 --> 00:38:36.079 I grew up in Kentucky. 00:38:36.079 --> 00:38:45.199 So the idea of being a theater person felt guarded in this ivory tower that belonged to the coasts to me as a kid, that I just didn't get to penetrate too much. 00:38:45.199 --> 00:38:50.320 I think glee was kind of my only in towards the great American songbook for the most part. 00:38:50.320 --> 00:38:52.079 Which, thank God for Glee. 00:38:52.079 --> 00:38:53.199 Thank you, Ryan Murphy. 00:38:53.199 --> 00:38:59.840 She said, Oh, and by the way, I'm working on this dark fairy tale or alternative rock musical, but you don't want to do that. 00:38:59.840 --> 00:39:01.599 And I thought, no, I want that. 00:39:01.599 --> 00:39:03.039 I no one's doing that. 00:39:03.039 --> 00:39:09.519 And at the time, I was hungry for knowing that my time with a label was probably pretty short-lived, because it tends to be. 00:39:09.519 --> 00:39:11.679 I did not know the pandemic was coming. 00:39:11.679 --> 00:39:19.519 But I sort of I was hungry already, subconsciously, I think, for something I could work on that the label did not own. 00:39:19.519 --> 00:39:28.239 And also knowing I'm 23, four when this is happening, and I'm thinking, I need something that's gonna open a door in my life in the next phase of my career. 00:39:28.239 --> 00:39:32.480 I don't know who I am on that other side of 25 yet, but I'd like to find out. 00:39:32.480 --> 00:39:38.880 So I watched the movie and I just found the story so evergreen. 00:39:38.880 --> 00:39:44.800 It's just so pure, this idea of what we give up for happiness. 00:39:44.800 --> 00:39:47.199 And that's a thing I write about a lot in my music. 00:39:47.199 --> 00:39:53.679 So I said yes, uh the team let me make a temp first demo to see if I could get the handle on it. 00:39:53.679 --> 00:39:58.639 And the shape of the score has changed a lot over the last six years. 00:39:58.639 --> 00:40:08.639 It's gone through a bunch of iterations of varying degrees of difficulty and density and rockiness versus musical theateriness and poppiness. 00:40:08.639 --> 00:40:18.079 And in the process, this show's allowed me a window to learn theater and study the canon and get to learn this thing that now I is my life and I love and respect it so much. 00:40:18.079 --> 00:40:21.199 And I am so grateful for getting to hop onto this years ago. 00:40:21.199 --> 00:40:23.920 Because now it's the main thing I get to work on with these guys. 00:40:24.239 --> 00:40:33.119 Yes, because as we were saying, uh musicals take a long time to gestate, sometimes longer than our children. 00:40:33.119 --> 00:40:41.519 And so this has been in the works for a long time, and we learned a little bit about the premise and the story. 00:40:41.519 --> 00:40:46.559 Uh, but I'd like to maybe switch to uh you brought in some clips. 00:40:46.559 --> 00:40:49.440 So maybe we can share some of those clips. 00:40:49.440 --> 00:40:50.880 So we'll start with more. 00:40:51.280 --> 00:40:58.800 Uh the lead of the show, I'd say the primary lead, is a character named Alice, who has grown up in a tough background. 00:40:58.800 --> 00:41:02.079 She's been in this committed relationship for about 10 years since high school. 00:41:02.079 --> 00:41:03.119 They're not married yet. 00:41:03.119 --> 00:41:11.280 She's always changing the goalposts of when we're gonna get married, when we're gonna be able to settle, because that's very expensive to settle and get your life moving. 00:41:11.280 --> 00:41:14.159 And these characters are about 27, 28. 00:41:14.159 --> 00:41:15.599 She's gone through grad school. 00:41:15.599 --> 00:41:19.280 She wants to be a museum curator, and she just cannot get her life started. 00:41:19.280 --> 00:41:25.519 And at the time this song happens, she's just been denied a job she really thought she had an inn for. 00:41:25.519 --> 00:41:37.119 And while she was at this museum getting denied for a job, she found her way into a sort of back archive and stole this ancient thing, this relic, this brass teapot that called to her. 00:41:37.119 --> 00:41:38.960 And she can't quite put words on it. 00:41:38.960 --> 00:41:41.679 She can't quite articulate why she did that. 00:41:41.679 --> 00:41:55.920 But what the audience will have seen is that the teapot has possessed the spirits of these different historical figures that came out on stage and guided her towards the teapot, the ghosts of Marie Antoinette, Genghis Khan, Joseph Stalin, Al Capone, Joan of Arc. 00:41:55.920 --> 00:41:59.920 And they've guided her without her seeing them. 00:41:59.920 --> 00:42:08.000 And as more begins, her mom, who she's strange drunk, has just called her and said, Baby, I've relapsed. 00:42:08.000 --> 00:42:11.440 I'm back on drugs, I need you to pay for my rehab. 00:42:11.440 --> 00:42:28.559 And so Alice is having this kind of come to Jesus moment of saying, crap, okay, wow, I've got to pull it together then, I guess, and figure it out because I didn't get that job, and now I need to pay my mom like $50,000 to do this thing that I know she needs, and it all falls on me as the only daughter and yikes. 00:42:28.559 --> 00:42:44.400 So the song will start, and about midway through, what the audience will see is Alice accidentally burning herself with a curling iron, and then a ghost of Marie Antoinette will enter the song and it will then become a duet for the second half. 00:42:44.559 --> 00:42:51.280 That's more than a lot that seem on the outside. 00:42:51.280 --> 00:42:57.679 I'm sure I can break down any door. 00:43:15.280 --> 00:43:16.000 That's gorgeous. 00:43:16.000 --> 00:43:17.039 Uh, thank you. 00:43:17.039 --> 00:43:21.760 I can really hear your pop rock uh background in that. 00:43:21.760 --> 00:43:31.039 One thing that I love about the history of musical theater is that it's always rooted in what is popular music at the time. 00:43:31.039

--> 00:43:40.719 So I think it's important to remember that a lot of times when we think of musical theater as a genre, we think that it should just be sounding a certain way. 00:43:40.719 --> 00:43:44.960 It should all sound like Sondheim, or it should all sound like Jason Brown. 00:43:44.960 --> 00:43:49.280 Yeah, or like some sound that we think musical theater sounds like. 00:43:49.280 --> 00:43:53.360 But to me, it should sound like popular music. 00:43:53.360 --> 00:43:56.480 It should sound like something you want to hear on the radio. 00:43:56.719 --> 00:43:57.519 That's yes. 00:43:57.519 --> 00:43:59.760 Yeah, I think that was an interesting sort of push and pull. 00:43:59.760 --> 00:44:02.639 When I came into the process, please, yes. 00:44:02.639 --> 00:44:15.280 When I came in, the initial sort of palette of influences that uh have been laid out were like, what if we chase like Edward Sharp and the Magnetic Zeros and Florence Welch and Kate Bush was a big one. 00:44:15.280 --> 00:44:19.920 And it was like 80s alt, early college rock, right? 00:44:19.920 --> 00:44:22.960 This kind of and with a little bit of a dark folks-y thing. 00:44:22.960 --> 00:44:32.719 And we chased that, and then I chased like a combination of that and then like 2019-2020 radio alt, which was what I knew as I was like coming into the process. 00:44:32.719 --> 00:44:45.039 What I found was that musical theater, it is influenced obviously by whatever's popular at the time, but it also does have a canonical reference quality. 00:44:45.039 --> 00:44:51.039 There's always this linear understanding of what's come before in the canon that I think the best shows were able to tap into. 00:44:51.039 --> 00:44:58.559 I don't think you necessarily have to be like beholden to it or chained to it, but I think you like to know what's come before on stage. 00:44:58.559 --> 00:45:03.599 Or if it's a rock musical, you need to be like aware of why a rock musical in the past worked. 00:45:03.599 --> 00:45:15.519 A pop musical, it's like writing it on its own in a vacuum is a fun exercise, but maybe not necessarily the best to like give it a broad access point. 00:45:15.519 --> 00:45:25.039 Uh not even necessarily in these songs that you've got, but some of these songs stretch out for like 10, 11, 12 minutes, and they become these kind of sprawling uh pieces with like movements and sweeps in them. 00:45:25.440 --> 00:45:26.239 Little sequence, right? 00:45:26.239 --> 00:45:26.800 Yeah. 00:45:28.079 --> 00:45:36.639 Yeah, and they are punky, but there's uh there is like a musicality to them that I think that strikes a balance between both that I think the best shows I think do. 00:45:36.639 --> 00:45:37.039 Right. 00:45:37.039 --> 00:45:38.719 I I is what I feel like they do. 00:45:39.280 --> 00:45:42.880 And it's been fun to be aware of uh musical theater history, right? 00:45:42.880 --> 00:45:52.239 So to know, and not to say that you have to have a knowledge of it, but it's been

fun for me to say, here's what a traditional act two opener would look like, right? 00:45:52.239 --> 00:46:00.239 Or here's a traditional act one closure would look like, and here's I'm using this example because it's a question we're currently grappling with as far as where the act rate wants to go. 00:46:00.239 --> 00:46:04.719 And it will tell you on something very different depending on what our decision is, right? 00:46:04.719 --> 00:46:12.400 So to leave them with one question and to invite them back in another musical moment or scene or whatever it may be. 00:46:12.400 --> 00:46:15.280 So it's fun to know the rules to then be able to break them. 00:46:15.280 --> 00:46:16.000 Yeah. 00:46:16.880 --> 00:46:30.800 I'm not saying you should discard musical theater history, but I'm saying it's that musical theater history tells us to make make sure to keep in mind that what works is also what is popular music at the time. 00:46:30.800 --> 00:46:35.599 Also, like you said, keeping in mind the canon that comes before it. 00:46:36.000 --> 00:46:37.760 It's this really interesting art form. 00:46:37.760 --> 00:46:42.079 Obviously, it's not location locked to New York, right? 00:46:42.079 --> 00:46:48.719 Or the West End, but it has been and it will be the nucleus of like where musical theater, where the canon is dictated, right? 00:46:48.719 --> 00:47:01.519 And you have this interesting, funny tightrope you have to walk, knowing that uh most people who see a show, it's this combination of tourists to New York who don't really know what they're about to watch. 00:47:01.519 --> 00:47:11.199 And so they're open for the ride, but they are people who listen to people's music, who listen to popular music or rap or rock or whatever's on the radio, and they come in with their own thing. 00:47:11.199 --> 00:47:23.920 And then you've got the sort of New York theater scene or the London theater scene who do know Sondheim and who do know uh Jason Robert Brown and who are expecting that and finding the line that appeals to both of those people as a really fun challenge. 00:47:23.920 --> 00:47:31.679 And then obviously, if it succeeds, it finds its way to a little girl in the middle of Ukraine or something who doesn't care about once on this island. 00:47:31.679 --> 00:47:33.039 She just knows that song. 00:47:33.360 --> 00:47:38.639 That sort of in a weird way reminds me of the monologue from Devil Wears Prada. 00:47:38.639 --> 00:47:39.599 Sure. 00:47:39.599 --> 00:47:48.480 Where she's oh, you don't care where you got that thrift bin blue sweater from, but that color is actually curated for you. 00:47:48.480 --> 00:47:49.119 Yes. 00:47:49.119 --> 00:47:51.199 From the fashion industry. 00:47:51.199 --> 00:47:52.320 Um you're doing great. 00:47:52.320 --> 00:47:52.719 Go ahead. 00:47:52.719 --> 00:47:53.199 Thank you. 00:47:53.199 --> 00:48:14.079 No, I haven't rehearsed, but it just reminds me of that because, like you said, it's all influenced and basically

curated by this sort of elite type thinking from New York and the sort of top-down way of thinking of art. 00:48:14.079 --> 00:48:19.599 But then yeah, it needs to also appeal to the broadest of uh audiences. 00:48:19.599 --> 00:48:26.400 So I think that's what when you do find that magical thing, that's the key. 00:48:26.400 --> 00:48:26.960 Yeah. 00:48:26.960 --> 00:48:30.239 So all right, let's hear the next clip. 00:48:30.480 --> 00:48:30.800 Yeah. 00:48:30.800 --> 00:48:32.880 John, Alice's longtime partner. 00:48:32.880 --> 00:48:39.440 They've made this deal when they recognize what the teapot's magic is, which is it pays you cash money for physical pain. 00:48:39.440 --> 00:48:44.800 When they first discover that, they make a deal that they will get out of the hole, pay off the credit cards, pay off the student loans. 00:48:44.800 --> 00:48:46.559 Just get out of the hole, give it away. 00:48:46.559 --> 00:48:51.920 But get to that point, and Alice is saying to John, no. 00:48:51.920 --> 00:48:54.400 No, what are you talking about? 00:48:54.400 --> 00:48:56.320 Come on, we can go further. 00:48:56.320 --> 00:48:57.280 Why shouldn't we have more? 00:48:57.280 --> 00:49:00.800 Why shouldn't we be allowed to live a real life and have a little bit of excess? 00:49:00.800 --> 00:49:01.760 Let's know that about that. 00:49:01.760 --> 00:49:03.760 So that's setting up just enough. 00:49:04.480 --> 00:49:27.679 John, we're doing better. 00:49:32.639 --> 00:49:33.199 That's great. 00:49:33.440 --> 00:49:34.000 Very nice. 00:49:34.000 --> 00:49:40.000 Doing vocals on that track with Chaz is Mel Bryant, who is a badass. 00:49:40.480 --> 00:49:41.440 She is so cool. 00:49:41.440 --> 00:49:47.920 New York slash Nashville based uh rock artist who has been a friend for a long time. 00:49:47.920 --> 00:49:54.159 She actually co-wrote the next song with me as well, uh, which this will be the next song, is the show's finale. 00:49:54.159 --> 00:49:58.159 We're skipping way past act two into the event. 00:49:58.639 --> 00:49:59.679 Who wouldn't he's in? 00:49:59.679 --> 00:50:01.440 Time travel is also part of the show. 00:50:01.679 --> 00:50:02.079 Oh, okay. 00:50:02.079 --> 00:50:03.119 Depends on who you're asking. 00:50:03.519 --> 00:50:04.000 Yeah, sure. 00:50:04.239 --> 00:50:04.559 Yeah. 00:50:04.559 --> 00:50:07.039 The sci-fi-ness of it in a minute. 00:50:07.440 --> 00:50:07.920 Yeah. 00:50:08.239 --> 00:50:09.840 I know I've done a lot of talking, Tim's. 00:50:09.840 --> 00:50:11.760 I apologize if I must have done any of this. 00:50:11.760 --> 00:50:13.840 I like when you talk, it's good. 00:50:14.559 --> 00:50:19.360 After the magic dies is the I'd say I like the end credits song of the show. 00:50:19.360 --> 00:50:27.360 There's like a finale that kind of happens that sort of like ties up all the loose ends, and then this is more of like the seasons of love of what's it all about? 00:50:27.360 --> 00:50:28.239 What are we saying? 00:50:28.239 --> 00:50:31.199 It's a curtain number, there's no plot going on here. 00:50:31.199 --> 00:50:42.320 It really is just like when a big, major magical thing in your life happens that scars you, honestly, or like it changes everything. 00:50:42.320 --> 00:50:44.159 Life has to keep going after that. 00:50:44.159 --> 00:50:49.760 You have to keep washing the dishes after that, and you have to keep driving in traffic after that. 00:50:49.760 --> 00:50:52.800 It's not like the big magical thing stops all that from happening. 00:50:52.800 --> 00:50:58.000 So that's the sort of setup for all of the characters going into after the magic dies. 00:51:34.480 --> 00:51:38.880 Speaking of musical theater history, it's really given me Jonathan Larson vibes. 00:51:38.880 --> 00:51:40.239 Like tick-tick-boom, I mean. 00:51:40.239 --> 00:51:41.360 It's a huge compliment. 00:51:41.360 --> 00:51:44.559 You said seasons of love, but to me, it's given like tick-tick-boom. 00:51:44.559 --> 00:51:46.960 I think 3090 is something I like. 00:51:48.639 --> 00:51:51.440 The current opener, choo chas, just with the piano intro. 00:51:51.440 --> 00:51:52.239 Thank you. 00:51:52.480 --> 00:51:58.400 Yeah, it just gives all the right feels you want in a big ensemble finale. 00:51:58.400 --> 00:52:00.480 So, yeah, that's great. 00:52:00.480 --> 00:52:04.159 And you took this show to NAMT, right? 00:52:04.159 --> 00:52:08.400 Um, maybe Jonathan, can you talk about what Nampt is? 00:52:09.039 --> 00:52:12.880 It is a large festival of brand new musicals. 00:52:12.880 --> 00:52:18.079 There's a mentorship element that goes along with it and a presentation that happens. 00:52:18.079 --> 00:52:19.679 I believe it's a shortened presentation. 00:52:19.679 --> 00:52:22.239 It's not the entire musical presented or anything like that. 00:52:22.239 --> 00:52:30.239 The goal is to present this new musical theater to uh producers and artistic directors and people who might want to be putting on the shows in the future. 00:52:30.239 --> 00:52:33.920 Uh this show, of course, is one of the NAMT musicals. 00:52:33.920 --> 00:52:35.519 So, congratulations for that. 00:52:35.840 --> 00:52:36.000 Yeah. 00:52:36.079 --> 00:52:50.559 And so when you took it to NAMP, there's a lot of producers and theater companies and theaters there from all over the country, maybe all over the world, even, uh, who are looking for shows to produce and musicals to develop. 00:52:50.559 --> 00:52:58.239 And did you get any folks that were interested in, you know, working with you to take this to the next level? 00:52:58.559 --> 00:53:03.920 One of the other things they do for each show is collate the interests that came from those who were in attendance. 00:53:03.920 --> 00:53:07.280 If you attend the MGO as an independent person, you can just buy a ticket. 00:53:07.280 --> 00:53:10.480 Or if you are a member, you can go in that way and you can sell out a form afterwards. 00:53:10.480 --> 00:53:15.760 It says, here

are the shows that I would like to learn more about, and or here are the show that I'm interested in following more. 00:53:15.760 --> 00:53:24.079 And so we got a whole range of feedback from yes, keep me posted on what the updates are, all the way to yes, let's be involved in the development. 00:53:24.079 --> 00:53:32.480 And two months ago in March, Ogunquay Playhouse in Maine, their new work department took us under their wing and they produced another 29-hour reading for us, which was amazing. 00:53:32.480 --> 00:53:35.199 On the AMP introduced us to our director, Katie Davis. 00:53:35.199 --> 00:53:43.199 It introduced us to our music director, Rick Ettinger, who have stayed on with the project and also already have their fingerprints all over it in an amazing way. 00:53:43.199 --> 00:53:51.679 And so there was enough interest in the show after NAMP that we've been able to continue working on it and keep our eyes on what is the right next step. 00:53:51.679 --> 00:54:07.039 It's been a balancing act of how do we feel about the piece and where do we want it to go and how can we carve out time in our own lives to make the changes that we know need to happen while also wanting to respect work with the timelines of a theater company or a producer or whatever it may be. 00:54:07.039 --> 00:54:13.360 After the one quit reading, we had a great sit-down with uh the artist director and their new works associate is to collect the even more really exciting feedback. 00:54:13.360 --> 00:54:17.440 And so right now, there have been some slight revisions after that. 00:54:17.440 --> 00:54:19.119 And we're shopping the show around. 00:54:19.119 --> 00:54:20.960 We're seeing where is the right home for it. 00:54:20.960 --> 00:54:22.480 We have a couple of paths. 00:54:22.480 --> 00:54:23.920 We're entertaining a few paths. 00:54:23.920 --> 00:54:32.079 We're talking now to general management companies and people who can help get us to the next level in terms of what is a New York off-Broadway budget look like? 00:54:32.079 --> 00:54:33.920 What does a Chicago budget look like? 00:54:33.920 --> 00:54:35.440 What does a tour budget look like? 00:54:35.440 --> 00:54:40.000 Uh figure out where's the right place to have it short premiere production. 00:54:40.239 --> 00:54:48.960 So now we want to talk about the sci-fi-ness of your show because we're sci-fi musicals podcast after all of that. 00:54:48.960 --> 00:54:52.400 So we like to do something called a tech check. 00:54:52.400 --> 00:55:07.519 What we like to do is rate a show on scientific plausibility from one to ten and just talk about how the science works in the show. 00:55:07.840 --> 00:55:11.760 Okay, so first you have to have a caveat of like, what do you believe in? 00:55:11.760 --> 00:55:13.840 Like in a belief system, right? 00:55:13.840 --> 00:55:19.199 Because there is this working mechanism of why this happens. 00:55:19.199 --> 00:55:22.239 It's not just wake up and here's a magic teapot. 00:55:22.239 --> 00:55:32.400 There's a reason that magic exists because 2000 and some odd years ago, Judas sold out Jesus for a bag full of ducats, silver ducats. 00:55:32.400 --> 00:55:44.639 And then as he walked away with his ill-gotten treasure, the traitor started to feel the bag grow heavier and heavier until it felt like it was going to drag him down into the dirt and he was going to be buried alive. 00:55:44.639 --> 00:56:05.920 So what could he do other than dump those beautiful silver coins into a nearby metalsmith's pot, which was being used at the time to create a teapot for the great Emperor Caligula and those ducats that silver possessed in them, more than just the physical makeup, right? 00:56:05.920 --> 00:56:13.039 They had emotion and pain and they had the conveyance of betrayal into the physical, right? 00:56:13.039 --> 00:56:15.119 Into the object that you hold in your hand. 00:56:15.119 --> 00:56:16.320 You feel something. 00:56:16.320 --> 00:56:35.679 If you believe in the feeling being passed from a physical object, an object in this world, into a person, if you've ever felt that, if you've ever held something in your hands, a crystal, a jewel, something, and felt an energy from it, then if you can accept that into your belief system, then I give it a five. 00:56:36.079 --> 00:56:36.639 That's amazing. 00:56:36.639 --> 00:56:37.760 I love the lore. 00:56:37.760 --> 00:56:38.559 Obsessed. 00:56:38.960 --> 00:56:45.440 And sometimes in this podcast, we'll also talk about magical systems as well, in terms of how hard of a magical system it is or how soft it is. 00:56:45.440 --> 00:56:48.000 It sounds like you've set up a very hard magic system in this one. 00:56:48.320 --> 00:56:55.199 There's also really firm logic to the ghosts that we've figured out, I think over the last year and a half. 00:56:55.199 --> 00:57:00.480 We love the spooky vibe, but then figuring out what is it, what does the teapot want? 00:57:00.480 --> 00:57:01.679 Why is it doing this? 00:57:01.679 --> 00:57:03.119 What is it seeking? 00:57:03.119 --> 00:57:11.199 And I think we do have a pretty clean line right now of ghosts want X because Teapot wants X. 00:57:11.199 --> 00:57:18.639 And this is where those merge and diverge, uh sorry, converge and diverge at any given point in the show. 00:57:18.639 --> 00:57:19.920 And is it solved? 00:57:19.920 --> 00:57:21.199 Is it solvable? 00:57:21.199 --> 00:57:24.239 And obviously, there's like a buy-in to the magic. 00:57:24.239 --> 00:57:32.719 I feel like it's on a scale of soft to hard, I give it, I feel like it's less seven, soft being zero, ten being hard. 00:57:32.719 --> 00:57:44.639 But Tim said if in the plausibility department, if you make space in your life for the supernatural and the mystical and the ecstatic, then yeah, probably that five. 00:57:45.280 --> 00:57:53.840 But what's also interesting, Jonathan, hearing you talk about you had this latter example of is it a system in which you have to

throw a spaghetti at the wall and see what happens? 00:57:53.840 --> 00:57:58.880 A comp that comes to my mind a lot for the show when we've been built developing it is Little Shop. 00:57:58.880 --> 00:58:01.119 And my life gets better, right? 00:58:01.119 --> 00:58:07.360 I eat this planet, and all of a sudden Audrey likes me back, and my I'm doing good at work and like all this stuff. 00:58:07.360 --> 00:58:27.360 And so there's something really compelling to me as an audience member of watching ordinary people trying to figure out by trial and error or whatever it may be, trying to figure out a system that maybe does have very hard and fast rules, but they stumble and they're clumsy because we've all been in that situation, not all been in a magical supernatural situation, but there's something really relatable. 00:58:27.360 --> 00:58:31.360 I think about oh, if I do this, then that happens and that experimentation, I think. 00:58:31.360 --> 00:58:33.760 And that's been really fun to also figure out the arc of. 00:58:33.760 --> 00:58:42.559 And especially with a show like this that deals with violence and partner-on-partner violence, and seeing that escalate to uh spoiler alert, emotional pain, right? 00:58:42.559 --> 00:58:48.320 That has to be handled really delicately by uh Tim and Chaz and Rama, the brilliant writers here. 00:58:48.320 --> 00:58:54.480 Uh, anyways, hearing you spell it out in that way, Jonathan, about uh watching protagonists learn a system is exciting. 00:58:54.480 --> 00:58:59.199 And that's what we hope to infuse in act one of this piece. 00:58:59.519 --> 00:59:08.079 Yeah, and sometimes in other works that we discuss, the science might be implausible, but also the entire world that they exist in is implausible too. 00:59:08.079 --> 00:59:11.280 Um it's like the spaceships and everything, that's pretty implausible. 00:59:11.280 --> 00:59:17.360 But the entire society is structured in this way that we don't really see a pathway toward creating in our real world. 00:59:17.360 --> 00:59:28.320 I think then that it seems to me then with this show uh where it can push it a little bit more toward the realism or world is real, realistic science fiction, because it's existing in the real world too. 00:59:28.320 --> 00:59:37.599 A real world where you can turn on a television and technology like that exists, and people behave in ways that we would expect normal human beings to behave given extraordinary circumstances. 00:59:37.840 --> 01:00:01.280 Yeah, the thing that is extraordinary is the teapot, it seems, and the possibility of things like that, like you mentioned, Tim, like if you believe in things like crystals and tarot and maybe UFOs that are being exposed by the government now, you know, like seem implausible, but yet somehow are somehow we feel something might be true that bubble. 01:00:01.760 --> 01:00:04.400 Very realistic, except for this one little thing right here. 01:00:04.400 --> 01:00:06.639 But the entire plot

comes out of that one little thing. 01:00:06.960 --> 01:00:13.280 We want to tighten certain elements that are satirical or a little bit out there so that we can open a door, right? 01:00:13.280 --> 01:00:16.320 Keep that door open for these otherworldly things to happen in a way. 01:00:16.719 --> 01:00:20.559 There's a degree of absurdity that's that's been fun with it, of heightening the world just a little bit. 01:00:20.559 --> 01:00:47.440 But what the interesting, I think, line that we've been trying to ride with this last draft that we just workshopped is that anything that is absurd also is absurd because of how plausible it is and how it's maybe one degree removed from okay, this is a little ridiculous, but there's a scene Tim has written where in a call center, somebody gets a call that they're late on their credit card payment, and the punishment is that they're about to be sent to a firing squad or a labor camp. 01:00:47.440 --> 01:00:50.480 In context, it's funny, but it's a black comedy show. 01:00:50.480 --> 01:01:01.039 So it's only who steps away from a real thing that might happen, which is horrible and partly why we need to poke the bear a little bit and try to make fun of it as much as we can. 01:01:01.440 --> 01:01:11.440 Also, frightening sometimes how the things in these works, if they're a little on the older side and are like, at the time that would have been pretty remarkable, and now it's like that's just how it works, maybe. 01:01:11.760 --> 01:01:25.519 So we all feel like it's this show's living in a five zone because we have a real world context with one very magical thing, but that very magical thing is what hinges the whole plot. 01:01:25.519 --> 01:01:32.000 So it does have hard magical systems, so that gives it a little more bump up in the rating, I think. 01:01:32.000 --> 01:01:33.519 Yeah, it feels right. 01:01:33.519 --> 01:01:35.440 Yeah, like a five, yeah. 01:01:35.440 --> 01:01:38.480 Is there anything that you want to tell us? 01:01:38.480 --> 01:01:49.360 Anything else that you want to tell us about your show or anything that's coming up that you want to let us know, or maybe uh your social media or your website or how to follow you. 01:01:49.360 --> 01:01:50.880 Where can we see more? 01:01:51.039 --> 01:01:53.599 Yeah, at the brass teapotmusical.com. 01:01:53.599 --> 01:01:56.400 You can now listen to all the demos with Chaz is Blessing. 01:01:56.400 --> 01:02:04.719 We put the full album of demos up there, and you can also follow the brass teapot musical on Instagram because currently that's where you'll get updates. 01:02:04.719 --> 01:02:08.800 And so hopefully there will be news to announce this year. 01:02:09.119 --> 01:02:13.360 When you have news, let us know so that we can announce it all over our episodes too. 01:02:13.360 --> 01:02:13.920 Thank you. 01:02:13.920 --> 01:02:14.320 Absolutely. 01:02:14.559 --> 01:02:24.960 I think before we leave, the last thing I'd like to say about the show is

that uh so many of the productions we've gotten to do have been necessarily small scale or stage readings. 01:02:24.960 --> 01:02:44.639 And what I really want people to know about the show is how absolutely psychological and surreal it gets in the second act that is going to be so effing cool to see on stage when we find the right partner for this. 01:02:44.639 --> 01:02:52.480 I think that the buy-in of teapot equals money is so fun and the world is so fun. 01:02:52.480 --> 01:03:04.320 But in act two, as we get to the heart of it all and things get very dark and grisly, I think that's the part of the show that I'm the most excited for people to see produced. 01:03:04.320 --> 01:03:10.960 So that's what I'd like to hold into the ether is the buy-in is fun, but the real meat of it is what's going to be cool on stage. 01:03:11.280 --> 01:03:17.920 I just finished a run of my show about uh Tyromancy, which is the art of divination using cheese. 01:03:17.920 --> 01:03:21.760 So similar idea, tarot, crystals. 01:03:21.760 --> 01:03:32.719 But like you said, seeing some of those production elements on stage is so satisfying because before I could only see them in my head. 01:03:32.719 --> 01:03:37.599 Even my other writing partners couldn't see them because they were in my head. 01:03:37.599 --> 01:03:42.480 And it was just so exciting and satisfying to see it played out on stage. 01:03:42.480 --> 01:03:46.320 And so I'm thrilled and excited for you when you get that chance as well. 01:03:46.559 --> 01:03:46.800 Thank you. 01:03:46.800 --> 01:03:51.360 For the opportunity to come on here and I saw Jonathan announce this podcast was happening. 01:03:51.360 --> 01:03:56.400 He's like, Yes, this is these are my people, these are the kind of shows that we need more of. 01:03:56.800 --> 01:03:58.400 Tell us again how you know each other, yeah. 01:03:58.559 --> 01:03:59.679 Underground and Northwestern. 01:03:59.679 --> 01:04:07.360 When at musical theater auditions wearing a monochrome color button down because we were told that was the musical theater audition uniform. 01:04:07.360 --> 01:04:07.679 Yep. 01:04:07.920 --> 01:04:09.920 And I mean Jason Robert Brown, probably. 01:04:09.920 --> 01:04:10.159 Right. 01:04:10.159 --> 01:04:10.960 Yeah, probably. 01:04:10.960 --> 01:04:12.320 But we crossed paths a lot. 01:04:12.320 --> 01:04:13.840 Were we ever actually in a show together? 01:04:13.840 --> 01:04:16.159 I swear that we were at some point, but I don't remember what. 01:04:16.159 --> 01:04:18.800 Was it it wasn't children of Eden, was it? 01:04:18.800 --> 01:04:20.559 No, I wasn't involved in Children of Eden. 01:04:21.440 --> 01:04:25.039 If you went to my festival between 2003, 2007. 01:04:25.039 --> 01:04:31.840 What I'll do, I'll go to scary Facebook and have it show me our friendship. 01:04:32.159 --> 01:04:35.280 That was a good yeah, you'll find some asked picture. 01:04:35.280 --> 01:04:38.960 Oh, Jesus Christ Superstar directed by Jesus Christ Superstar. 01:04:39.039 --> 01:04:39.360 That was it. 01:04:39.360 --> 01:04:42.000 Yes, who was who? 01:04:42.000 --> 01:04:49.599 I was one of the random apostles, and then at the end, I was like the centurion who helped Dan Kohler get on the cross. 01:04:49.599 --> 01:04:53.360 Yeah, you were I was Peter's the Peter stuff. 01:04:53.360 --> 01:04:55.599 Travis Greisler was the director on that. 01:04:55.599 --> 01:04:57.679 He's now some big shop Broadway guy now. 01:04:57.920 --> 01:04:58.960 Yeah, I know him. 01:04:59.679 --> 01:05:03.440 Joel Escher, who is in a lot of our mutual writing circles, is the music director of it. 01:05:03.440 --> 01:05:04.480 Yeah, that's right. 01:05:04.480 --> 01:05:06.400 Oh, Andrew Kelts is in it too. 01:05:06.400 --> 01:05:07.760 He's like all over the place too. 01:05:07.760 --> 01:05:09.360 Broadway is Anna Islandsville. 01:05:09.360 --> 01:05:10.000 That's right. 01:05:10.000 --> 01:05:10.719 Very cool. 01:05:10.719 --> 01:05:11.760 Small world. 01:05:11.760 --> 01:05:13.119 It was stacked. 01:05:13.440 --> 01:05:16.559 Thank you all again so much for being with us today. 01:05:16.559 --> 01:05:23.360 And we will definitely uh make sure to share all your uh websites and social medias on our website. 01:05:23.360 --> 01:05:27.119 Thank you, Tim, Chaz, and Eric for being here today. 01:05:27.119 --> 01:05:28.239 Thank you, Jonathan. 01:05:28.239 --> 01:05:29.360 Thanks, Andy. 01:05:29.360 --> 01:05:37.519 So that is our Tony Award preview show. 01:05:37.519 --> 01:05:44.320 We'd like to thank our guests, Eric Kaiko, Chaz Cardigan, and Tim Macy for joining us today. 01:05:44.639 --> 01:05:45.039 Thanks. 01:05:45.039 --> 01:05:46.400 Great conversation, guys. 01:05:46.719 --> 01:05:50.320 Please follow us on all of our social medias. 01:05:50.320 --> 01:05:59.280 You can find us at sci fi musicals and become a patron on our Patreon.