Full Transcript for The Trust Problem in Scaling Sales Teams (Every CEO Faces This) | Adam Boyd

a, like, I always had a, a use for that money. 00:02:04.329 --> 00:02:08.680 And when I was 12 I loved buying comic books. 00:02:08.740 --> 00:02:11.289 And by the way, back then it wasn't cool. 00:02:11.349 --> 00:02:12.129 Now it's cool. 00:02:12.159 --> 00:02:13.479 Back then you were kind of a dork. 00:02:13.900 --> 00:02:18.689 But I would work at this comic book store and I was there every Saturday. 00:02:19.080 --> 00:02:22.800 Finally, the people behind the counter who owned it said, Hey, do you just wanna come help us? 00:02:23.335 --> 00:02:25.502 Do this stuff like we'll pay you in comics. 00:02:25.551 --> 00:02:26.361 and I loved it. 00:02:26.421 --> 00:02:34.486 And I was there Friday night, all day Saturday and they would just gimme a big stack of comics and send me home'cause they had all this inventory that wasn't gonna move. 00:02:35.127 --> 00:02:36.116 I could price things. 00:02:36.116 --> 00:02:37.046 I knew what things were. 00:02:37.317 --> 00:02:39.146 I think I ran the register a little bit. 00:02:39.627 --> 00:02:42.509 And that was this really sweet season in my life. 00:02:42.569 --> 00:02:48.000 And then this isn't about money, but I then. 00:02:48.604 --> 00:02:52.768 Started and I'm learning who I am, kind of in my mid forties. 00:02:53.414 --> 00:02:56.919 I, I played high school football and I really wanted to be good'cause we had really sucked. 00:02:56.949 --> 00:03:08.319 We were oh and 10 my sophomore year we got shut out four times and as I kind of became a senior, I started saying, Hey, we are gonna organize our own practices outside of the coaches. 00:03:08.349 --> 00:03:12.219 And we started doing that in the summer and I said, our stadium looks like crap. 00:03:12.219 --> 00:03:13.120 We need to clean it up. 00:03:13.569 --> 00:03:14.000 So I started like. 00:03:14.530 --> 00:03:16.539 Galvanizing people around that. 00:03:16.539 --> 00:03:18.819 And I'm not necessarily the most charismatic. 00:03:18.819 --> 00:03:19.509 I just have a vision. 00:03:19.509 --> 00:03:23.169 I'm like, dadgummit, we're gonna do this, and what do I need to do to get it done? 00:03:23.169 --> 00:03:26.080 And then I did something similar in college with our fraternity. 00:03:26.960 --> 00:03:29.150 It was more like, how do we really build this thing? 00:03:29.150 --> 00:03:30.259 How do we raise more money? 00:03:30.710 --> 00:03:36.920 and then in terms of like really imp impressing me about entrepreneurship, the person who is really. 00:03:37.325 --> 00:03:57.395 Stamped me and I don't have anything close to his level of genius, effectiveness, or, or success, is Jeff Sandifer, who, guy who's done a lot in education, oil and gas and energy, and when I was at Acton, he just impressed upon me so much certain thoughts. 00:03:57.906 --> 00:04:06.395 That if you knew what he taught, you would hear it spilling out of me left and right, and I'm just trying to move our business in those directions. 00:04:07.010 --> 00:04:09.110 Well,

I know Jeff, I don't know him as well as you do. 00:04:09.110 --> 00:04:17.646 Actually ran into Jeff in a hotel in Aspen 15 years ago, and I think it's about the time you were in, uh, the Acton program, which I still laugh about. 00:04:17.646 --> 00:04:19.177 I got denied twice. 00:04:19.437 --> 00:04:23.456 And then the next year is when Robin Weekly Bruce started. 00:04:23.487 --> 00:04:24.146 Do you know Robin? 00:04:24.732 --> 00:04:24.971 Yeah. 00:04:25.197 --> 00:04:30.237 Yeah, so Robin and I laugh about this all the time'cause her kid and my kid are in the same grade at school. 00:04:30.447 --> 00:04:32.156 So she's like, Matt, you're not a failure. 00:04:32.156 --> 00:04:32.607 You're not. 00:04:32.637 --> 00:04:35.877 I mean, you didn't get an acton if I was there, you'd have gotten in. 00:04:35.877 --> 00:04:36.747 You're not a failure. 00:04:36.896 --> 00:04:37.706 She's hilarious. 00:04:37.706 --> 00:04:44.607 So anyway, I got to hear Jeff speak at one of your Acton events and then I ran into him at a hotel and we chatted for a sec. 00:04:44.607 --> 00:04:48.307 He's an incredible entrepreneur and a giver has done a lot of great things for a lot of 00:04:48.502 --> 00:04:49.012 Oh yes. 00:04:49.012 --> 00:04:58.238 I, I think they brought me into that class just to kind of like, see if they could help make me get through it and just, they're like, how much hard work can one person do who 00:04:58.343 --> 00:05:01.793 Adam, he's like a passion project, you know, I mean, we're just gonna see if we can 00:05:01.928 --> 00:05:03.865 I was, I think I was, I think I was. 00:05:04.795 --> 00:05:05.185 So 00:05:05.411 --> 00:05:05.740 Alright. 00:05:05.740 --> 00:05:10.391 So I first met you when you were taking, I think it was during the Sandler days. 00:05:10.630 --> 00:05:14.286 tell me about those times and sort of how that impression where you, where you are today. 00:05:15.745 --> 00:05:16.915 And give us some backstory on what is 00:05:18.005 --> 00:05:18.245 Alright. 00:05:18.245 --> 00:05:24.163 So Sandler is a, worldwide sales training business and, they operate through franchisees. 00:05:24.523 --> 00:05:30.512 Started in the early eighties by a guy named David Sandler back then they were kind of a hotel business. 00:05:30.512 --> 00:05:36.723 You would show up whenever Sandler would come through and then it turned into weekly classes and then it's expanded. 00:05:37.083 --> 00:05:42.512 They went through an acquisition several years ago, and so they've updated their brand and some of what they're doing. 00:05:42.512 --> 00:05:53.572 But, Carl Siebel had come to Acton He had taught a session on sales and he had said, Hey, I do this assessment on people. 00:05:53.572 --> 00:05:56.632 If you're looking at sales as a career, come talk to me. 00:05:56.632 --> 00:05:59.692 I can run this assessment on you and we can give some feedback on yourself. 00:06:00.293 --> 00:06:02.723 And, I was at Acton, didn't know what I was gonna do. 00:06:02.783 --> 00:06:05.728 Everyone else was like, had a plan and a vision and I was like, I don't know what I'm gonna do. 00:06:07.132 --> 00:06:09.413 I was just trying to understand the financial modeling. 00:06:10.358 --> 00:06:15.788 So I get out and I meet with Carl, and he runs me through the assessment and he says, you, you're not gonna, this is gonna be really hard for you. 00:06:15.788 --> 00:06:16.627 You shouldn't do this. 00:06:16.627 --> 00:06:18.007 You should go do something else. 00:06:18.067 --> 00:06:21.218 But he says to me, and I'm like, well, can I work for you? 00:06:21.218 --> 00:06:25.668 Like, I'll empty your trash and I'm about to sneeze, so gimme a minute. 00:06:25.718 --> 00:06:26.348 right in the middle. 00:06:26.468 --> 00:06:32.098 Adam Boyd, the trash emptier, but such a testament to you, for you to say, I'll do it all. 00:06:32.098 --> 00:06:33.867 I'll work harder than anybody else in the room. 00:06:33.867 --> 00:06:34.737 Just gimme a chance. 00:06:35.218 --> 00:06:38.548 Well, and what he said, he was like, bear in mind I had an MBA at this point. 00:06:39.697 --> 00:06:43.208 He said, I'll pay you$15 an hour for everybody that you book. 00:06:43.208 --> 00:06:45.398 Every business owner you book into this event. 00:06:45.398 --> 00:06:47.918 I'll pay you, I think it was$200 or a hundred dollars. 00:06:48.218 --> 00:06:50.827 And he said, and if I close it, I'll give you I think 10%. 00:06:51.728 --> 00:06:55.327 And so I sat with him like by myself. 00:06:55.327 --> 00:06:56.317 Sat in a windowless room. 00:06:57.103 --> 00:06:59.983 I just had a book and a phone and there were some posters on the wall 00:07:00.088 --> 00:07:00.658 It's called a 00:07:00.762 --> 00:07:04.333 cold called, it's what it felt like, and I just cold called for him. 00:07:04.333 --> 00:07:06.043 And so, that was brutal. 00:07:06.192 --> 00:07:10.812 And, but we, I thought I'd be there three months, maybe six months. 00:07:10.862 --> 00:07:11.793 I'd learn a lot. 00:07:12.242 --> 00:07:17.137 And you, that's sort of a misnomer I learned, but through pain and then. 00:07:18.468 --> 00:07:22.608 I ended up, not because I liked it, but because I'm too stubborn to quit. 00:07:22.608 --> 00:07:41.117 I just stayed nine years and we, we trained people, we sold to CEOs, we consulted and we, we got connected a lot of people in Austin, throughout Texas, and that was very formative for how I think about a lot of challenges in sales, probably similar. 00:07:42.377 --> 00:07:48.257 I probably have similar mental frameworks that you do to operations and working with CEOs, and I would love to hear about that at some point. 00:07:48.288 --> 00:07:48.677 Yep. 00:07:49.038 --> 00:08:05.307 One of the things I remember, you came in and helped us train a couple junior salespeople, at hyper wear, and it was the time I learned about the cookbook and I think that was a Sandler term or something around the fact that you would build your outcome and

work backwards into what it took to get to that outcome 00:08:05.637 --> 00:08:06.627 like a manufacturing 00:08:06.733 --> 00:08:07.843 It's exactly right. 00:08:07.872 --> 00:08:09.523 It's like, what's the end output? 00:08:09.702 --> 00:08:12.072 What are the ingredients required to get to that output? 00:08:12.223 --> 00:08:18.043 And I'm not gonna lie, I still use that technique today a lot on holding people accountable and managing expectations. 00:08:18.043 --> 00:08:19.692 It's like, I don't know how to get to the end. 00:08:19.692 --> 00:08:21.043 It's like, well, you don't start at the end. 00:08:21.043 --> 00:08:23.202 You get the end goal and then you work backwards into it. 00:08:23.202 --> 00:08:24.163 what's an example? 00:08:25.283 --> 00:08:28.642 It's, I think it's really simple and sort of self-evident sales. 00:08:29.122 --> 00:08:36.293 How do you use that concept when you're working like below the CEO with a bunch of people on the operational side? 00:08:36.653 --> 00:08:44.842 What are some examples of how you get them operationalizing and measuring, like creating measurable activities that they need to engage in? 00:08:45.427 --> 00:08:57.638 So one of the things that I really enjoy doing is when we're looking at all of our quarterly projects, when I work with leadership teams, we develop these 90 day projects or goals or rocks, and then we establish milestones for each one of those. 00:08:57.847 --> 00:09:02.168 So if you look at the rock, is the end goal, the recipe, the cookbook that it takes to get there. 00:09:02.447 --> 00:09:06.618 Are the 10 milestones, five milestones along the way that says I'm on track to getting those. 00:09:07.038 --> 00:09:17.748 And if you can't get to two, if you don't start with one and you can't skip through it, and we meet on it weekly in terms of accountability that says, Hey, in 90 days from now, we're gonna have an end output. 00:09:18.477 --> 00:09:19.048 Okay, Good. 00:09:19.107 --> 00:09:21.388 What are the 10 things we need to do in order to get there? 00:09:21.748 --> 00:09:25.168 So that's one thing that I use, which is very simple, but it's effective. 00:09:25.227 --> 00:09:29.187 And then another thing is we do, scorecards or measurables for each department. 00:09:29.457 --> 00:09:31.857 We have three to 10 measurables per department. 00:09:31.857 --> 00:09:36.477 Every department has to have it that says, how do we know we're on track on a week to week basis? 00:09:36.628 --> 00:09:38.248 Again, we're not looking at the end goal. 00:09:38.248 --> 00:09:41.577 We're looking at every single week we're measuring something. 00:09:41.648 --> 00:09:42.062 It could be. 00:09:42.457 --> 00:09:43.837 Cold calls for sales. 00:09:43.837 --> 00:09:45.427 It could be cash in the bank for accounting. 00:09:45.427 --> 00:09:45.908 Who knows? 00:09:46.368 --> 00:09:49.337 but you're looking at it and it has to move. 00:09:49.398 --> 00:09:50.388 It has to change. 00:09:50.388 --> 00:09:53.687 There has to be some sort of variable associated with every metric. 00:09:53.807 --> 00:09:56.658 Otherwise, you're just measuring the same shit every week and nothing changes. 00:09:57.393 --> 00:10:01.863 How do you help entrepreneurs and, and the people who work below them? 00:10:01.863 --> 00:10:05.432 Because I think this is very important, find the work. 00:10:05.493 --> 00:10:16.802 'cause in that measurability there are things that people are gonna do better, but even you, like, you're really gifted, you have an interesting connection of relationship and operations. 00:10:16.832 --> 00:10:18.692 Like some of the operations people are like, leave me alone. 00:10:18.692 --> 00:10:19.413 It's kinda like Shrek. 00:10:19.893 --> 00:10:21.807 how do you help, is there any thought to like. 00:10:22.863 --> 00:10:26.758 Getting people into the place where they're thriving because they love the work and they're in a state of flow. 00:10:27.413 --> 00:10:31.982 I mean, you've seen this in your sales leadership world and your leadership entrepreneurship world. 00:10:31.982 --> 00:10:36.273 It's like when you get the right person in the right seat, they immediately start to thrive. 00:10:36.643 --> 00:10:41.913 and unfortunately for a lot of visionary entrepreneurs that go out and create this business and wake up tomorrow and figure out how to do it. 00:10:42.702 --> 00:10:46.783 They don't necessarily go back and ask that person, Hey, are you fulfilled? 00:10:47.113 --> 00:10:50.592 Yes, it's a job, but you wanna show up every day and do what you're doing. 00:10:50.802 --> 00:10:55.363 Or have we put a square peg in a round hole here and you're just doing it because you need the work. 00:10:55.602 --> 00:11:01.753 So to your point on relationships, I get to go back and ask those questions with people not being feared of being the boss. 00:11:02.128 --> 00:11:04.317 They're gonna tell you something different than they tell me. 00:11:04.317 --> 00:11:07.528 They do it every single time, and that's less than fortunate. 00:11:07.827 --> 00:11:11.457 But that's the relationship Part of it is, are you in the right seat? 00:11:11.508 --> 00:11:16.307 and by the way, if you're the right person, we can generally, we can find you the right seat. 00:11:16.607 --> 00:11:24.128 So I think it's being humble and curious, Adam, and understanding, if these people want to do what they're doing every day or they're are hitting a paycheck. 00:11:24.883 --> 00:11:25.322 I love it. 00:11:25.712 --> 00:11:26.523 I want to go back. 00:11:26.643 --> 00:11:33.253 so Trinity Training and Development spun outta Northwood or there somehow Tell us about Trinity training and development. 00:11:33.253 --> 00:11:37.232 Give me the understanding of what it is, who you're targeting, sort of what the business model 00:11:37.288 --> 00:11:44.158 Robert Winter had a background in, working in the college system with corporate clients doing leadership training. 00:11:44.998

--> 00:11:57.477 built this company, really great program called Frontline Leadership, and he largely worked with, More of a blue collar industrial clientele who needed frontline supervisor training. 00:11:57.477 --> 00:12:04.227 So if I talk to you about leadership training, you're gonna think about like Covey, you're gonna think about Lencioni and a lot of the stuff is amazing. 00:12:04.227 --> 00:12:05.638 There's some really good stuff out there. 00:12:05.687 --> 00:12:09.918 What they don't do is have anything that's very, very practical for the front line. 00:12:10.217 --> 00:12:17.957 And so you get a lot of people who are doing the work and the next day they're promoted from welder to team lead and or 00:12:18.092 --> 00:12:18.393 So, hold on. 00:12:18.393 --> 00:12:19.202 I wanna ask a question. 00:12:19.202 --> 00:12:20.942 Frontline leader, what does that mean to you? 00:12:20.942 --> 00:12:23.102 That term, because I got follow up, but I wanna make sure. 00:12:24.077 --> 00:12:29.957 Now they are the people like doing the work who actually then start to manage the people doing the work. 00:12:29.988 --> 00:12:34.998 It's not someone on the 40th floor who's looking at spreadsheets. 00:12:34.998 --> 00:12:39.107 It's actually the people really close to the assembly line. 00:12:39.107 --> 00:12:43.337 It's people really close to the project in the field. 00:12:43.697 --> 00:12:50.187 Who touch, feel, smell, work side by side with each of the workers every day. 00:12:50.368 --> 00:12:51.298 That's a frontline leader. 00:12:52.018 --> 00:12:56.337 And those people, there's almost nothing that's available for them. 00:12:56.817 --> 00:13:02.192 And if there is, it has to be tailored to their world. 00:13:02.908 --> 00:13:03.327 Right. 00:13:03.508 --> 00:13:06.238 They don't need to be thinking about regression analysis. 00:13:06.238 --> 00:13:08.748 They've gotta think about precision and manufacturing. 00:13:09.018 --> 00:13:20.298 They need tools that, Hey, when I work with Bob over here, I can help connect with him and understand him, but I don't need to look at like some 16 point chart to understand his motivation. 00:13:20.298 --> 00:13:21.827 I need to understand some general thoughts about. 00:13:22.202 --> 00:13:25.413 Engagement and be able to connect with him and find out what's important to him. 00:13:26.133 --> 00:13:28.322 So we provide that. 00:13:28.533 --> 00:13:33.633 Sometimes we train it, sometimes we train the company to train it and we provide that leadership. 00:13:33.633 --> 00:13:41.003 And, Northwood, which has been our sales training and sales consulting business, is being rebranded into Trinity training. 00:13:41.243 --> 00:13:45.743 'cause it doesn't make sense to have two brands out there and one of which no one really knows. 00:13:46.187 --> 00:13:51.467 so distill down Trinity trainings deliverable are what the service offering is to this. 00:13:51.467 --> 00:13:56.388 I'm guessing it's blue collar service based industry businesses based on the reference that you just gave me. 00:13:56.388 --> 00:13:57.288 But I could have made that up. 00:13:57.427 --> 00:13:58.168 Hey, it's front. 00:13:58.227 --> 00:13:59.638 It's very practical. 00:13:59.937 --> 00:14:03.118 Frontline supervisor training, first 00:14:03.177 --> 00:14:09.628 And that's on not not on everything, any type of, just how you operate as an individual, how you manage people accountabilities. 00:14:10.518 --> 00:14:14.778 We, the things that we're gonna cover are, do you understand your role as a leader? 00:14:15.528 --> 00:14:18.138 Do you understand how to manage different personalities? 00:14:18.138 --> 00:14:19.067 Can you adjust to those? 00:14:19.067 --> 00:14:26.658 Can you communicate coach, hold people accountable, manage change in conflict, and that framework is built and taught. 00:14:26.687 --> 00:14:32.658 We have clients who take some of our frameworks and they have them in the break room on the walls 00:14:33.153 --> 00:14:33.472 awesome. 00:14:33.738 --> 00:14:36.643 to help remind people of this, almost like you do with E Os. 00:14:37.232 --> 00:14:37.623 Yep. 00:14:37.923 --> 00:14:42.903 So you have a series, and how often are you, I mean, is a program, is it a class? 00:14:42.903 --> 00:14:43.982 Is it quarterly? 00:14:44.133 --> 00:14:48.092 Am I getting, can I get one-on-one coaching with you on a weekly basis or how does that 00:14:48.378 --> 00:14:50.807 So we have a group of 10 trainers. 00:14:50.807 --> 00:14:53.227 We're actually expanding the bench'cause we need to go deeper. 00:14:54.048 --> 00:14:54.168 I. 00:14:54.697 --> 00:14:59.977 They go and sometimes every client has its own set rhythm of working with us. 00:15:00.008 --> 00:15:04.717 It's usually somewhere between two and four weeks that they have training going on. 00:15:05.288 --> 00:15:07.418 And our current program is 10 modules. 00:15:07.778 --> 00:15:10.238 Some of them we work with a casino in Arizona. 00:15:10.717 --> 00:15:13.748 They actually work it up and a two hour modules. 00:15:13.748 --> 00:15:19.957 And so they run about 20 trainings and they actually have a big graduation for people when they're done big dinner, whole deal. 00:15:20.297 --> 00:15:22.366 We work with clients around their schedule. 00:15:22.366 --> 00:15:25.576 'cause you can't just shut down a manufacturing line just to do some training. 00:15:25.875 --> 00:15:29.926 It's funny you said something earlier that made me chuckle'cause I hadn't heard this term before. 00:15:30.056 --> 00:15:33.475 I was working with the mechanical contracting firm up in Cedar Park, Texas. 00:15:33.475 --> 00:15:41.794 They're a awesome firm, capital industries, great group of people that, uh, do mechanical contracting work for large, commercial buildings. 00:15:42.154 --> 00:15:43.384 And I got to be friendly. 00:15:43.434 --> 00:15:47.490 after working with them I I did a year deal with them as a fractional COO, and it was great.

00:15:48.075 --> 00:15:53.815 One of their, plumbing techs was a turned inside manager, and he used to have this joke. 00:15:53.904 --> 00:15:59.384 He would say, uh, man, I think that guy's more of a, an outside dog than an inside dog, because 00:15:59.504 --> 00:16:01.484 house cap versus a house cap versus, yeah. 00:16:01.649 --> 00:16:01.828 Yeah. 00:16:01.828 --> 00:16:02.489 How's Cat? 00:16:02.788 --> 00:16:04.379 So I thought that was so funny. 00:16:04.379 --> 00:16:08.339 And he said, my job's to turn the outside dogs into the inside dogs. 00:16:08.639 --> 00:16:10.198 And I thought that was funny as shit. 00:16:10.229 --> 00:16:11.458 'cause it's like, it's so true. 00:16:11.458 --> 00:16:17.078 But those people don't have a ton of, experience or training or background in leadership. 00:16:17.078 --> 00:16:18.369 They need to get it somewhere. 00:16:18.578 --> 00:16:20.229 Well, and here's what you gotta think about. 00:16:20.288 --> 00:16:22.089 A lot of people are really gonna get the work done. 00:16:22.208 --> 00:16:23.798 They have a native skillset. 00:16:24.619 --> 00:16:30.499 and I'll correlate this here in a minute to the other side of our business, but now are asking them, get work done through people. 00:16:30.994 --> 00:16:31.504 Mm. 00:16:32.028 --> 00:16:34.999 You can't just do that through sheer force of will. 00:16:35.239 --> 00:16:41.359 So like in sales, one of the things that happens is you get somebody who's really good at starting new things, finding new deals, working'em. 00:16:41.928 --> 00:16:45.528 That native skillset does not necessarily translate to management. 00:16:45.979 --> 00:16:48.288 So when we work with CEOs, it's like, whoa. 00:16:48.379 --> 00:16:54.198 Before you promote your best sales person to a leadership role, you need to consider you're gonna lose your best rep. 00:16:54.739 --> 00:17:03.288 Unless they're just gonna close everybody's deals, in which case you're not actually getting a leader, you're getting just someone who closes and other people prospect for them. 00:17:03.288 --> 00:17:04.519 And we can set that structure up. 00:17:05.209 --> 00:17:10.189 But once people go into leadership, they need to learn a new skillset. 00:17:10.578 --> 00:17:17.868 So sales leaders who have all the degrees and titles in the world, they have to learn to operate differently. 00:17:17.929 --> 00:17:19.249 They have to hold people accountable. 00:17:19.249 --> 00:17:23.778 Something you and I talk about, they have to learn how to coach, and it's sort of Groundhog Day. 00:17:24.409 --> 00:17:28.128 While they built some systems and some structure and all the other fun stuff. 00:17:28.306 --> 00:17:30.526 We also used to say he can't take off the tool belt. 00:17:31.840 --> 00:17:39.550 Because you think about it, if you go from, you know, screwing and drilling and banging and cutting, all of a sudden that's your, you've done that for your whole career. 00:17:39.730 --> 00:17:45.580 Taking the tool belt

off and setting it aside and having to teach people is a foreign skill to a lot of people. 00:17:45.580 --> 00:17:50.855 But they show promise, they need lead, they need a path, otherwise they're gonna burn out or retire or whatnot. 00:17:51.501 --> 00:17:53.164 You are listening to the Scalability Code. 00:17:53.164 --> 00:18:01.335 I'm your host, Matt Haney, founder of Sinclair Ventures, and we help visionary entrepreneurs like you get out of the shit show and focus on growing your business. 00:18:01.473 --> 00:18:07.874 We offer fractional COO and leadership coaching services that free up that brain of yours to focus on what's next. 00:18:08.364 --> 00:18:10.104 Learn more about us at SinclairVentures. 00:18:10.104 --> 00:18:10.453 com. 00:18:10.473 --> 00:18:11.094 Now back to it. 00:18:12.733 --> 00:18:13.544 And, and here's the deal. 00:18:13.574 --> 00:18:14.144 Think about it. 00:18:14.473 --> 00:18:20.054 The most credible person is not somebody who has a degree. 00:18:20.114 --> 00:18:22.243 It's the person who's done it, right? 00:18:22.243 --> 00:18:26.844 So one of the things we're thinking about is when we hire trainers, can we hire trainers who have an operational background? 00:18:27.503 --> 00:18:34.334 Because there's this thing in them that you sense, like you've done it, like you've been in a small business and run it day to day. 00:18:35.084 --> 00:18:37.844 There's a certain thing that I sense in you that I trust. 00:18:37.844 --> 00:18:40.243 And so with sales leaders, there's, we could talk about this all day. 00:18:40.453 --> 00:18:44.443 You want to find sales leaders who've kind of gotten beat up doing it. 00:18:44.473 --> 00:18:51.253 They don't have to have been the best salesperson, but they have so much more credibility if they can say, this happened to me. 00:18:51.314 --> 00:18:52.604 They don't need to have all the answers. 00:18:52.653 --> 00:18:54.334 there's a relatability they need. 00:18:54.753 --> 00:18:55.084 Yep. 00:18:55.114 --> 00:18:56.284 No, you gotta miss payroll. 00:18:56.284 --> 00:18:57.094 If you've been an entrepreneur. 00:18:57.784 --> 00:19:04.354 If you hadn't missed payroll, you've never been an entrepreneur, you know, and I think it's one of those things that you just can't teach that skill of experience. 00:19:05.013 --> 00:19:06.394 It, it's, it's a crucible, right? 00:19:06.394 --> 00:19:14.554 And I was telling people recently, like, you know, the entrepreneur lays awake at night and says, laser lies. 00:19:14.554 --> 00:19:15.394 I was an English major. 00:19:15.394 --> 00:19:15.634 I forget 00:19:15.695 --> 00:19:15.965 Sure. 00:19:15.996 --> 00:19:17.375 We'll go both, both lay and lie. 00:19:17.375 --> 00:19:17.645 Sure. 00:19:18.486 --> 00:19:21.884 They're in their bed wondering, am I gonna go bankrupt? 00:19:22.003 --> 00:19:22.993 No one else has that concern. 00:19:22.993 --> 00:19:23.804 Other people go get a job. 00:19:23.804 --> 00:19:26.743 The entrepreneur is sitting there going, is this gonna, I, it's funny. 00:19:26.835 --> 00:19:27.375 Quick story. 00:19:27.875 --> 00:19:28.894 I was at a Christmas party. 00:19:28.954 --> 00:19:35.315 And I was standing next to two entrepreneurs, one of whom they just sold their business for a billion dollars. 00:19:35.375 --> 00:19:37.894 Another one, the business does over a billion in sales. 00:19:38.404 --> 00:19:42.095 And they were talking, and this was fascinating. 00:19:42.575 --> 00:19:46.234 And I thought, oh my, I was like, got a front row seat to like just something insane. 00:19:47.075 --> 00:19:48.184 Great, great guys. 00:19:48.454 --> 00:19:49.625 Really successful. 00:19:49.654 --> 00:19:51.484 And they said, one of'em said together. 00:19:52.025 --> 00:19:55.984 When did you stop worrying that the business was going to make it? 00:19:56.045 --> 00:19:57.065 How big were you? 00:19:57.440 --> 00:19:57.769 Right. 00:19:58.519 --> 00:20:00.859 And I didn't know what he'd say. 00:20:01.069 --> 00:20:02.480 10 million, 20 million. 00:20:02.480 --> 00:20:09.950 One of'em said, you know, at 50 million I knew we could cut back and still survive. 00:20:10.339 --> 00:20:14.900 And I just thought, you know, the fear that an entrepreneur has like, oh, when I get here. 00:20:15.545 --> 00:20:17.825 It doesn't go away, it just changes. 00:20:17.825 --> 00:20:18.605 And you learn to live with it. 00:20:18.605 --> 00:20:20.525 And the other guy said, yeah, it was about the same for me. 00:20:20.525 --> 00:20:21.934 And then he said, then we got to a hundred million. 00:20:21.934 --> 00:20:23.105 And the game completely changed. 00:20:23.644 --> 00:20:25.714 And then we worried, is the market gonna shift? 00:20:25.744 --> 00:20:39.169 And for any entrepreneurs or CEOs listening to this, it's like you just kind of make peace that the challenge is gonna be there and you're the person called to go attack that challenge and you make peace and you just get really good at adjusting. 00:20:39.618 --> 00:20:42.318 And no one in the business is gonna feel that. 00:20:42.469 --> 00:20:43.398 But the owner. 00:20:44.028 --> 00:20:45.409 Yep, that's exactly right. 00:20:45.558 --> 00:20:47.778 I helped a client, who's become a close friend. 00:20:48.119 --> 00:20:52.508 Uh, he's actually an Aggie, who, uh, ran an incredible business. 00:20:53.032 --> 00:20:53.423 by the way. 00:20:53.423 --> 00:20:55.073 I love that you had to put that 00:20:55.432 --> 00:20:56.482 I had to do it for you. 00:20:56.482 --> 00:21:09.803 I know you're not an Aggie, I know where you lie, but he's an Aggie and he'll laugh when he hears this, but, I was fortunate to help him run his business for a year, year and a half, and he gets ready to exit and we're getting payroll by the dollars dollars clear in the bank. 00:21:10.192 --> 00:21:17.153 He sells the business the week before Thanksgiving turns over the operating account with$2,000 in it, literally. 00:21:17.678 --> 00:21:18.698 $2,000. 00:21:18.998 -->

00:21:25.238 And for him it was a challenge to see how he could run that down yet keep this thing, he's an engineer. 00:21:25.337 --> 00:21:35.877 so it was funny, but to your point is we were always a little concerned about whether or not, every two weeks, that number and as, and you grow yourself right outta business, you literally grow yourself outta cash. 00:21:36.087 --> 00:21:41.782 Contracts coming in, you're hiring, everything's going together except the cash balance, which is always a challenge. 00:21:42.478 --> 00:21:43.107 So good. 00:21:43.133 --> 00:21:53.817 all right, so I have an interesting question and I dealt with this in this mechanical contracting firm that I, uh, was involved in and former project manager and contracting spins out, starts his own mechanical firm. 00:21:54.086 --> 00:21:55.152 He is the face of the business. 00:21:55.842 --> 00:21:57.342 He is the head sales guy. 00:21:57.432 --> 00:22:04.461 He has all the relationships with every one of the, of the general contractors, and he's the one generating sales. 00:22:05.092 --> 00:22:24.051 We had to transition a sales director, a sales leader into the business, getting that visionary owner to stop focusing 110% of his time on revenue and pipeline, and allowing and trusting this person to then also take over pipeline is a terrible process for an operator to watch. 00:22:24.501 --> 00:22:32.932 Because every single time when you have a visionary owner running revenue, transitioning revenue over to someone else is fucking painful, 00:22:33.471 --> 00:22:38.031 Because you're afraid that they're not gonna care like you, they're not gonna be as hungry as you. 00:22:38.112 --> 00:22:41.652 You're thinking all the time, like, that lead costs me$500. 00:22:41.741 --> 00:22:43.211 Are they actually gonna follow up? 00:22:43.692 --> 00:22:48.491 Because the truth is, no one cares the way the owner does. 00:22:48.491 --> 00:22:49.842 No one understands the pain. 00:22:49.842 --> 00:22:52.942 And this is why, you know, you've helped people through sales. 00:22:53.481 --> 00:22:57.261 When they go to sell the business, they have so much invested. 00:22:57.261 --> 00:23:08.392 And it's why if you're approaching a CEO or an owner for equity, you need to understand, you are asking them, like you're saying, Hey, I think I should be the godfather of your child. 00:23:09.051 --> 00:23:09.321 Right? 00:23:09.321 --> 00:23:11.189 Or, or like, you should write me into the will. 00:23:11.189 --> 00:23:14.608 Like you don't know the suffering they went through. 00:23:14.608 --> 00:23:15.659 You just see it as equity. 00:23:16.019 --> 00:23:16.288 Right. 00:23:16.348 --> 00:23:16.588 And it's a 00:23:16.723 --> 00:23:16.993 to you. 00:23:16.993 --> 00:23:18.223 It's, It's, it's, yeah. 00:23:18.374 --> 00:23:19.663 No, that's so well said. 00:23:20.074 --> 00:23:35.903 I, uh, I was talking to a woman yesterday and she's through acquisition and just sheer force of will, she's gotten a company about 250 million, and I told her, I said, and she's, she, you know, she's like, she's still doing a lot of the sales, a lot of it, and they're trying to figure out the sales question, so they're talking to us and. 00:23:36.144 --> 00:23:40.463 One of the things I tell CEOs is, one, you need to understand sales. 00:23:40.463 --> 00:23:45.894 Whether you come from an engineering background, a product background, a finance background, you need to understand it. 00:23:45.894 --> 00:23:47.963 So you can call BS two. 00:23:48.233 --> 00:23:49.374 You need to be involved. 00:23:50.034 --> 00:23:54.054 Doesn't mean it's your all day, every day, but you need to be involved. 00:23:54.354 --> 00:24:02.064 Three, you definitely need to be brought in on deals to help bring a certain level of reassurance. 00:24:02.064 --> 00:24:03.203 So if it's a large deal. 00:24:03.459 --> 00:24:07.808 And your sales director, your head of sales, your CRO is not leveraging you. 00:24:08.169 --> 00:24:14.558 That person is an idiot, Look, there are exceptions, and when there's an exception, let's call it an exception. 00:24:15.159 --> 00:24:22.538 Like if Matt's my CEO and Matt's the name in this space and I don't know how to use him, we have a problem. 00:24:22.898 --> 00:24:26.769 It's either competence or trust, but I think a leader. 00:24:27.459 --> 00:24:29.739 On a situation like this, they've grown the business. 00:24:30.219 --> 00:24:37.894 They need to start handing things over in phases and seeing that this person can do it, and then they move to developing that leader. 00:24:39.038 --> 00:24:39.909 To grow the company. 00:24:39.939 --> 00:24:43.929 'cause who knows that sales leader may end up being the CEO one day or the president. 00:24:44.378 --> 00:24:48.979 But you have to kind of give it to'em like, Hey, let's talk about how you're managing pipeline. 00:24:49.128 --> 00:24:50.598 Let's talk about how you're running those reports. 00:24:50.648 --> 00:24:55.898 And you just slowly get that CEO down to 20% of their time is on sales and pipeline. 00:24:56.818 --> 00:25:01.233 God, everything I, my hair just sticks up on the back of my neck because I spend a lot of time. 00:25:02.003 --> 00:25:19.773 With sales leaders and just leaders in general, helping them understand the relationship that they have with this visionary that hired them and trusted them, and how our job is to deliver information up to that person so when they do roll over at night and have a question about something, A, they can access it, and B, we're comfortable and confident delivering. 00:25:20.209 --> 00:25:24.288 Like to your point earlier, if you're hiding something, you're immediately not the right person. 00:25:24.318 --> 00:25:25.219 Because guess what? 00:25:25.548 --> 00:25:33.769 That visionary, who figured out how to run a business to get it to five, 10, 50 million, they're gonna figure it out, and you're instantly gonna lose credibility. 00:25:34.038 --> 00:25:40.249 So I

spend a lot of time in that hiring and onboarding process, just setting expectations for what it looks like to work for an entrepreneur. 00:25:40.638 --> 00:25:51.078 And, and to your point earlier on equity, which I hadn't heard said so articulately the way you have, which is it means a thousand times more to them than it does to the person receiving it. 00:25:51.199 --> 00:25:58.858 And generally the person receiving it feels entitled to it, But, CRMs have become, my best friend and I continue to talk through these. 00:25:58.949 --> 00:26:05.528 Anybody who's managing projects or dealing with sales calls, the best sales leaders I know brag about their activity. 00:26:06.278 --> 00:26:19.269 They're so proud of the fact that they're moving the ball forward, that they're having the touches, they're setting their objectives for themselves, and they're following up on it to go through a pipeline review meeting and have all the information be in there. 00:26:19.449 --> 00:26:22.838 It's like I just kinda, I'm like, yes, we did it. 00:26:22.838 --> 00:26:23.558 We did it. 00:26:23.618 --> 00:26:25.028 All the answers are there. 00:26:25.449 --> 00:26:32.465 Well, and then where you want to take them next, and this is for, for anybody listening and for you is, alright, great. 00:26:32.496 --> 00:26:33.846 We have this amazing activity. 00:26:35.195 --> 00:26:39.006 It's not that we need more activity, like once it's dialed in, it's more of. 00:26:39.560 --> 00:26:41.691 Who are the right people to do the activity with? 00:26:42.171 --> 00:26:44.601 Can we get more of the right people? 00:26:45.020 --> 00:26:55.260 Because I was talking to, a guy on our team who's starting to handle sales, and I said, Hey, look, long term where we're gonna move is we need more of this type of prospect. 00:26:55.830 --> 00:26:57.181 That's gonna convert better. 00:26:57.300 --> 00:26:58.381 It's less effort. 00:26:58.480 --> 00:26:59.891 it's higher margin for us. 00:26:59.891 --> 00:27:01.030 It's a bigger deal size. 00:27:01.090 --> 00:27:01.810 They're happier. 00:27:01.810 --> 00:27:02.530 We're happier. 00:27:03.131 --> 00:27:06.161 So it's not, can you just put more in there? 00:27:06.221 --> 00:27:10.030 Because that costs money and it's time and it's really your attention and focus. 00:27:10.451 --> 00:27:17.681 But over time, can you start thinking, how do we over time start moving to more of just the right type of customer or prospect? 00:27:18.371 --> 00:27:22.780 Because that starts to make everything operationally and financially work even better. 00:27:23.201 --> 00:27:24.971 And then the salespeople work less, right? 00:27:24.971 --> 00:27:26.346 Because we're getting more of the right people. 00:27:27.171 --> 00:27:35.961 So in that individual contributor to, to, you know, transitioning to a team member, I'm just thinking, oh, I mean, this has been a common theme in the last three clients I've had. 00:27:36.240 --> 00:27:44.926 and I know there's no right answer, but I'm just trying to get an understanding of it and, and the two scenarios I'm mentioning, mechanical contracting firm and engineering software services firm. 00:27:45.237 --> 00:27:49.564 The visionary owner of the business is also was the sales leader. 00:27:49.653 --> 00:27:52.713 what's the right amount of engagement to have with that person? 00:27:52.894 --> 00:27:55.594 I mean, every owner of every business thinks about revenue. 00:27:56.013 --> 00:27:56.913 It's on their mind. 00:27:57.094 --> 00:28:02.733 How when you bring him in, like without losing credibility with your sales leader who's like, I don't need this guy. 00:28:02.733 --> 00:28:03.723 I can do it better than him. 00:28:03.723 --> 00:28:07.223 It's like, yeah, but you know, you wouldn't take Tom Brady off the field if he wasn't Tom 00:28:07.423 --> 00:28:07.693 Right. 00:28:08.294 --> 00:28:08.534 Yeah. 00:28:08.534 --> 00:28:12.770 So are you asking how much does the sales leader need to work with the owner or 00:28:12.861 --> 00:28:21.346 Right, and, it's a fine line because if that sales leader engages the entrepreneur too much, then all of a sudden that entrepreneur's run in the sales org and you don't need the sales leader. 00:28:21.401 --> 00:28:22.171 I think so. 00:28:22.171 --> 00:28:28.601 I was talking to a CEO and he really wanted, from his sales leader, he didn't come from a sales background, the CEO. 00:28:29.201 --> 00:28:32.621 And what he really wanted was the sales leader to be a true strategic advisor. 00:28:32.830 --> 00:28:37.631 Not all of them could do it, and you have to think about where you are by stage. 00:28:37.990 --> 00:28:39.730 So if you're a one to$5 million business. 00:28:40.661 --> 00:29:03.881 the odds that you're gonna hire someone in the role to do the work, to be a strategic advisor are low because sometimes a strategic advisor, they've played at a higher level in a different type of company, and they would really struggle at that smaller stage because they're having a do it all and maybe it's really ambiguous as they move up. 00:29:04.270 --> 00:29:14.151 That sales leader needs to, I tell people we're working on a recruiting gig for a client and they want somebody who's taken a company from 5 million to 75 million. 00:29:14.151 --> 00:29:20.691 And I said, look, you might get somebody who's gone from five 20 and then you may need somebody to go from 20 to 75. 00:29:20.691 --> 00:29:21.861 Just understand their different people. 00:29:21.980 --> 00:29:30.411 Now, early on, if we're talking small business to build a relationship, that sales leader and that CEO need to talk every day. 00:29:31.236 --> 00:29:33.336 And this is, I don't know how long that lasts. 00:29:33.336 --> 00:29:34.536 Three months, four months. 00:29:34.536 --> 00:29:36.365 And a lot of CEOs are just like so stressed. 00:29:36.365 --> 00:29:37.086 They're like, just take it. 00:29:37.836 --> 00:29:42.425 But it's about getting what's in their head

into systems and into process. 00:29:42.425 --> 00:29:46.175 And it shouldn't be too rigid early, then maybe it goes to three times a week. 00:29:46.776 --> 00:29:47.165 Right? 00:29:47.405 --> 00:29:52.536 But if you're growing and the sales leaders doing their job and they will grow. 00:29:53.405 --> 00:30:00.306 You're now gonna need to work with a CEO or the COO to start thinking about, alright, we need to think about delivery, we need to think about capacity. 00:30:00.786 --> 00:30:04.086 And so now we have a different set of issues and now the team's growing. 00:30:04.536 --> 00:30:07.086 So I don't think that those touch points matter. 00:30:07.086 --> 00:30:08.135 It's who's doing what. 00:30:08.955 --> 00:30:14.496 I don't wanna minimize, like, I'm not trying to say, Hey, you can become an owner who steps back, but eventually you gotta find a new CEO. 00:30:15.096 --> 00:30:18.306 But the CEO and the head of sales need to be talking regularly. 00:30:18.635 --> 00:30:20.586 What does a pipeline review meeting look like? 00:30:20.586 --> 00:30:22.115 What's a solid pipeline 00:30:22.326 --> 00:30:24.816 Oh, well there's what they look like and there's what they should look 00:30:24.891 --> 00:30:32.517 Well, that's what I'm asking because for me, you know, I've seen a hundred of'em and I've led 500 of them. 00:30:32.737 --> 00:30:34.051 what is the, what's a 00:30:34.162 --> 00:30:35.422 Lemme give you a handful of questions. 00:30:35.632 --> 00:30:36.652 Here's what it should look like. 00:30:37.041 --> 00:30:38.926 I don't like going through the CRM and doing it. 00:30:39.652 --> 00:30:40.521 I like this. 00:30:40.571 --> 00:30:49.842 I literally want a spreadsheet or a sheet filled out with here's what we expect to close in the next, you pick your timeline, two weeks for 30 days, right? 00:30:50.471 --> 00:30:52.122 The next 45 to 60 days. 00:30:52.122 --> 00:30:57.701 And then beyond that, and here's what I wanna know on every deal, I want just the headlines. 00:30:57.731 --> 00:31:05.471 Salespeople love to give you a good Jack Ryan story and that the twists and the terms and the history and how we got here and why, and it's like. 00:31:06.237 --> 00:31:08.277 And you're sitting there going, I just need this answer. 00:31:08.696 --> 00:31:09.386 A couple things. 00:31:09.507 --> 00:31:14.396 I think anybody from management should be able to attend a pipeline meeting, right? 00:31:14.517 --> 00:31:18.626 C-E-O-C-F-O, operations delivery people. 00:31:18.626 --> 00:31:20.666 And everybody needs to be able to ask questions. 00:31:20.997 --> 00:31:24.297 And some of the things I wanna know are, first question on this deal. 00:31:25.916 --> 00:31:28.826 Why are they going to choose us? 00:31:29.547 --> 00:31:32.936 They have to be able to answer that, You gotta say no, no, answer that question. 00:31:33.446 --> 00:31:39.086 Then you wanna know what's the highest level at which we are having a real conversation. 00:31:39.807 --> 00:31:44.366 I don't wanna know that the CEO was on an email. 00:31:44.487 --> 00:31:47.336 I wanna know where's the highest level we're having a conversation. 00:31:48.372 --> 00:31:50.652 What's the conversation we've had around money? 00:31:53.201 --> 00:31:57.521 And then I wanna know what is the clear next step that both sides have agreed on? 00:31:57.612 --> 00:32:06.961 Sending a proposal is not a next step we are going to have a proposal review and there'll be a decision at the end of that if you can do that one, you can get through your pipeline meeting really quick. 00:32:07.247 --> 00:32:07.997 Right. 00:32:08.176 --> 00:32:12.856 And what you're trying to just get at is like, Hey, you tell the salespeople we love you. 00:32:12.886 --> 00:32:14.267 You're great, you're working hard. 00:32:14.717 --> 00:32:15.856 I just don't need all this detail. 00:32:16.037 --> 00:32:20.626 I mean, I need like, give me the bottom line up front on these deals. 00:32:21.106 --> 00:32:25.247 And it takes about three or four times of doing this for them to learn how to do it. 00:32:25.297 --> 00:32:28.057 are you a fan of applying probability percentages? 00:32:28.896 --> 00:32:30.936 Yeah, but the way we do, it's different. 00:32:31.086 --> 00:32:37.146 So one, I want to, I wanna lay over two things, and you and I were talking about assessments before this got going. 00:32:37.507 --> 00:32:40.237 I don't think any one assessment is the, is the whole thing. 00:32:40.237 --> 00:32:41.317 I like to stack a couple. 00:32:42.517 --> 00:32:51.866 So one buy stage in the pipeline and that's a, in the sales process, That tells me something, if they've hit the milestones, not just'cause they had a meeting. 00:32:52.436 --> 00:32:55.436 The other thing that we do, and this is really important, is creating a scorecard. 00:32:55.856 --> 00:33:04.106 Now, the scorecard, and you'll like this is not it's, it's not necessarily about the sales pipeline or the process. 00:33:05.096 --> 00:33:08.426 Lemme say it's not about the process, it goes into the pipeline. 00:33:08.817 --> 00:33:13.467 It's based on objective criteria that are predictive of a win and dependent of the rep. 00:33:14.517 --> 00:33:14.936 So lemme give you 00:33:14.967 --> 00:33:15.987 Ah, hold on. 00:33:15.987 --> 00:33:16.541 Say that again. 00:33:17.332 --> 00:33:28.682 it's about identifying objective, not opinion, not feel, not, thinks, not seems, criteria, completely independent of the rep's work. 00:33:28.741 --> 00:33:30.211 So lemme give you an example. 00:33:30.622 --> 00:33:31.172 it might be. 00:33:32.241 --> 00:33:33.461 They've worked with us before. 00:33:34.102 --> 00:33:35.031 That's a yes or no. 00:33:35.031 --> 00:33:35.961 That's true or false. 00:33:36.291 --> 00:33:43.521 It might be they have a new CEO who needs to make a splash that's objective and that is predictive. 00:33:43.521 --> 00:33:52.011 Because if you start looking at deals, you start finding these things that tell

you when these five or six factors are true, we win. 00:33:52.461 --> 00:33:55.132 if three of'em are false, we lose. 00:33:55.672 --> 00:33:57.561 And so people will say, well, every deal's different. 00:33:57.561 --> 00:33:58.321 No, no, no, no, no. 00:33:58.432 --> 00:33:59.362 Across a large enough. 00:33:59.721 --> 00:34:01.162 Sample size, we get averages. 00:34:01.612 --> 00:34:01.942 yeah. 00:34:02.182 --> 00:34:05.321 So we look for things like, I'll give you an example. 00:34:05.476 --> 00:34:06.855 do, they use EOS. 00:34:06.855 --> 00:34:16.365 So if I am talking to a prospect who uses EOS, I haven't actually done the math on this, I have a much higher likelihood of one getting hired and two, having success. 00:34:16.936 --> 00:34:23.715 So you start putting grades on these things and now you're like, oh, these are the 18 deals we need to focus on. 00:34:23.715 --> 00:34:23.896 These 00:34:24.001 --> 00:34:29.206 so so moving from subjective to objective measurements and there's you one. 00:34:29.311 --> 00:34:31.849 And, it, and it's not about what the rep thinks. 00:34:31.849 --> 00:34:32.958 It's this is true, 00:34:33.333 --> 00:34:34.864 Yeah, it's a yes or no. 00:34:35.344 --> 00:34:43.143 Interesting Interesting because so much, and I know you've heard this and seen this, it's like, well, I feel like this is gonna that and feel and this and that. 00:34:43.143 --> 00:34:43.324 and I 00:34:43.639 --> 00:34:44.179 us. 00:34:44.284 --> 00:34:45.423 I like, and I had a beer with a 00:34:45.469 --> 00:34:46.248 No, no, no, It's a no. 00:34:46.248 --> 00:34:48.389 It's, Hey, they've worked with us before. 00:34:48.449 --> 00:34:49.528 They hire a consultant. 00:34:49.889 --> 00:34:54.719 They've done these things, and it's literally, everybody can look at it and say, all right, this is a deal. 00:34:54.809 --> 00:35:00.628 We might lose it, but our odds here are 30 times greater than this deal over here because. 00:35:01.048 --> 00:35:03.208 It's, you know, let's go back to my examples. 00:35:03.478 --> 00:35:05.329 Former, CEO's been there 20 years. 00:35:05.809 --> 00:35:08.418 they don't use EOS two, three other factors. 00:35:08.418 --> 00:35:16.139 It's like those people never, so in the next conversation, if you're gonna convince us this deal's gonna change, you need to go get hard proof from them that they are gonna buy from us. 00:35:16.139 --> 00:35:16.559 And why I, 00:35:16.824 --> 00:35:17.333 That's right. 00:35:17.333 --> 00:35:20.423 But take those subjective things to a measurable that says something. 00:35:20.514 --> 00:35:23.393 'cause otherwise it's all warm, fuzzy feelings. 00:35:23.554 --> 00:35:24.634 alright, last question. 00:35:24.664 --> 00:35:26.724 Tell me about, your ideal client type. 00:35:26.784 --> 00:35:29.634 Like, what is, what is, what does some of the people come to you like? 00:35:29.634 --> 00:35:30.324 What do they look like? 00:35:30.324 --> 00:35:30.384 I. 00:35:30.643 --> 00:35:41.414 Yeah, so I'm gonna give you two'cause nobody likes this, but, so on the frontline leadership side, this is typically a, a blue collar company that really cares about their people and they know that. 00:35:42.298 --> 00:35:52.199 Leadership affects quality, productivity, safety, that if you have turnover, there's a massive expense there and they're saying, Hey, we need to invest and like develop our people. 00:35:53.039 --> 00:36:01.748 On the other side, it's typically a CEO and I use this phrase mid-market, but there at like 15 20 million a year up to 200 to 500 million a year. 00:36:01.748 --> 00:36:02.768 And the CEO says. 00:36:03.469 --> 00:36:13.068 we need to move sales out of the nineties or early two thousands to the next level, and they're trying to figure out how do we make sure our forecast is believable? 00:36:13.278 --> 00:36:14.628 How do we develop our people? 00:36:14.688 --> 00:36:19.938 I can't completely rely on like two or three Supermen or Wonder Woman to solve my deal. 00:36:20.449 --> 00:36:24.619 What can we do in our market to make sales a competitive advantage? 00:36:24.679 --> 00:36:26.208 Those are the two folks we're talking to. 00:36:26.929 --> 00:36:29.728 And, um, one's on the sales side, one's on the leadership side. 00:36:29.759 --> 00:36:32.518 So Matt been so much fun, man. 00:36:32.744 --> 00:36:34.003 Always good to hear from you. 00:36:34.003 --> 00:36:35.492 And had never even thought about. 00:36:36.246 --> 00:36:50.670 turning a pipeline into more OB objectives because you always, it's always such an elusive conversation and that's field-based and I love the idea of finding indicators that may not directly indicate a yes, but they're facts that we can track and use our 00:36:50.835 --> 00:36:51.135 Yes. 00:36:51.721 --> 00:36:52.141 Awesome. 00:36:52.170 --> 00:36:53.521 Yeah, let's talk about it some other time. 00:36:53.610 --> 00:36:54.481 Adam, you're the man. 00:36:54.481 --> 00:36:55.260 I appreciate you, sir. 00:36:55.260 --> 00:36:57.391 Have a great afternoon and I'll talk to you soon. 00:36:58.021 --> 00:36:58.440 See buddy. 00:36:58.664 --> 00:37:00.733 Thank you for listening to The Scalability Code. 00:37:00.764 --> 00:37:06.253 If you made it this far, please follow the show on Apple, Spotify, YouTube, or wherever you get your podcasts. 00:37:06.342 --> 00:37:08.802 We'll see you next time on The Scalability Code.