Full Transcript for Episode 48. John Etheridge (Guitar) - 'Killer Joe'

was that. 00:01:57.439 --> 00:02:07.359 And so I had a band playing that music at school, and um the rhythm guitar player, his dad, my dad was a amateur, but a very good level Teddy Wilson pianist. 00:02:07.359 --> 00:02:11.599 And his dad was a good level, what they used to call dance band guitarist. 00:02:11.599 --> 00:02:16.719 Great big guitar, used to sit there with his pipe stuck in his mouth, going ronk, chunk, chunk, chonk, chonk like that. 00:02:16.719 --> 00:02:23.680 So I used to go around to his house, and the and the old man said, Well, listen to all this rubbish, you should listen to Django Reinhardt. 00:02:23.680 --> 00:02:25.120 And I'm going, What the hell? 00:02:25.120 --> 00:02:29.599 So anyway, he put on this record, you know, and it was like I just couldn't believe it, 1963. 00:02:29.759 --> 00:02:30.639 What age were you when you first? 00:02:31.120 --> 00:02:32.080 15, 14. 00:02:32.080 --> 00:02:33.039 What's that? 00:02:33.039 --> 00:02:34.719 You know, it was just on every level. 00:02:34.719 --> 00:02:38.719 First of all, there was a kind of speed level, it was just like nobody plays guitar like that. 00:02:38.719 --> 00:02:39.840 That's incredible. 00:02:39.840 --> 00:02:48.879 So became a kind of Django man, and I'd heard loads of jazz from my dad, which I kind of liked, but it didn't blow me away. 00:02:48.879 --> 00:02:52.560 My dad was trying to turn me on to Charlie Christian, but I wasn't totally convinced. 00:02:52.560 --> 00:02:54.400 I think partly because of the tone. 00:02:54.400 --> 00:03:01.199 But then unfortunately for the jazz scene, Clapton and Hendrix came along in 65, 66, and that was like, what? 00:03:01.199 --> 00:03:03.680 Although I was always keen on jazz. 00:03:03.680 --> 00:03:12.560 I mean, I but when I got to university in 1967, all my friends had gone in for this Soft Machine and Hendrix and Clapton and stuff. 00:03:12.560 --> 00:03:20.159 And then I heard John McLaughlin's Extrapolation, and that turned me right back into because I thought, now, this is jazz with balls, you know. 00:03:20.159 --> 00:03:25.680 And I remember the first review of John McLaughlin in The Melody Maker, and it said there's this young guitarist, John McLaughlin. 00:03:25.680 --> 00:03:30.800 His technique may not be the best, but nobody can deny the power of his solos. 00:03:30.800 --> 00:03:33.520 So when I heard Extrapolate, it was like, wow! 00:03:33.520 --> 00:03:38.800 So you were kind of stuck between the jazz and rock, and you were searching for something that I bridge the two. 00:03:39.439 --> 00:03:40.080 Yes, always. 00:03:40.080 --> 00:03:42.319 Actually, that's a totally on the money point. 00:03:42.319 --> 00:03:48.400 Because I remember sitting with a mate of mine in 67, 68 saying, I want to blend Jeff Beck and Django Reinhardt. 00:03:48.400 --> 00:03:53.680 You know, well, when I finally got into the jazz scene, everybody thought, oh, he's a ro you're a rock player, really, playing jazz. 00:03:53.680

--> 00:03:56.479 And then, of course, in the rock scene, it's like, oh, you're a jazzer. 00:03:56.639 --> 00:03:59.439 You know, it's funny you should say that because I got exactly the same thing. 00:03:59.439 --> 00:04:01.199 I started out in the pop business. 00:04:01.199 --> 00:04:01.520 Oh, yeah. 00:04:01.520 --> 00:04:04.639 And the jazzers thought I was a pop guy, and the pop guy thought I was a jazz guy. 00:04:04.800 --> 00:04:05.120 Exactly. 00:04:05.199 --> 00:04:06.479 So you're kind of somewhere in the middle, aren't you? 00:04:06.800 --> 00:04:07.840 Absolutely, and you're stuck. 00:04:07.840 --> 00:04:14.000 And and and and somehow, well, hopefully, you've certainly been totally accepted, and uh hopefully one gets accepted in the end. 00:04:14.000 --> 00:04:22.319 But when I started like on the jazz scene properly, which was quite late in my life, you turn up with a couple of pedals, they go, 00:04:22.319 --> 00:04:24.560 Well, there's still an element of that in the jazz scene, though, isn't there? 00:04:24.720 --> 00:04:25.839 Yeah, there is a bit, yeah. 00:04:25.839 --> 00:04:26.720 There is a bit. 00:04:27.040 --> 00:04:29.439 Yeah, particularly with something like electric bass, for example. 00:04:29.600 --> 00:04:30.399 Oh god, yes, 00:04:30.399 --> 00:04:33.600 people don't accept electric bass as a real snobbery about electric bass. 00:04:33.680 --> 00:04:33.759 Yeah. 00:04:33.759 --> 00:04:36.319 Because I first knew you as an electric bass player. 00:04:36.319 --> 00:04:38.240 An electric bass player, yeah, in the 80s. 00:04:38.240 --> 00:04:40.160 Yeah, fusion the electric bass player. 00:04:40.399 --> 00:04:40.720 That's right. 00:04:40.720 --> 00:04:41.680 We um digress. 00:04:41.680 --> 00:04:42.319 We did digress! 00:04:42.959 --> 00:04:47.839 We got to a John McLaughlin, I'm at 68, 69, listening to In a Silent Way at university. 00:04:47.839 --> 00:04:52.399 And that's so I then I came back in 1970, you know, the scene was so rocking. 00:04:52.399 --> 00:05:00.800 You can't yeah, anybody, well even your age listening, listening, realize how much gigs, money, everything. 00:05:00.800 --> 00:05:10.720 So I started working, and because I it was right fortunate for me because by 1970, everybody had enough of the Eric Clapton thing, which everybody was doing beautifully by then. 00:05:10.720 --> 00:05:15.519 More than Hendrix, you know, Hendrix was a sort of phenomenon, but Clapton was the influence. 00:05:15.519 --> 00:05:18.639 So I'd go to these auditions, which you got from the back of The Melody Maker. 00:05:18.639 --> 00:05:22.240 Buy The Melody Maker on Thursday and he'd say, We want guitarists want it, blah blah blah. 00:05:22.240 --> 00:05:25.040 It'd be very cruel to time wasters, must travel. 00:05:25.120 --> 00:05:25.360 Yes. 00:05:25.600 --> 00:05:34.959 So I used to go to those, and and and I think because by guitarist 18, which might be me, they just thought, how can we decide between these people all playing the same way? 00:05:34.959 --> 00:05:42.319 And I had my sort of jazz rocky, semi-McLaughlin, semi-everything already kind of going. 00:05:42.319 --> 00:05:46.399 And so I got immediately started getting tons and tons and tons of gigs. 00:05:46.399 --> 00:05:52.000 Uh, interesting enough, the first person I met, proper jazz person I met in 1971, was Art Theman. 00:05:52.000 --> 00:05:53.360 And he was really nice to me. 00:05:53.360 --> 00:05:55.199 He said, I really like what you're doing. 00:05:55.199 --> 00:05:57.600 He said, There are not many people doing anything much. 00:05:57.600 --> 00:06:00.319 There was another thing that worked really in my favour. 00:06:00.319 --> 00:06:03.360 Things were starting like the Mahavishnu Orchestra in 71 and so. 00:06:03.360 --> 00:06:06.959 People who didn't really like the guitar thought they ought to have a guitar. 00:06:06.959 --> 00:06:10.879 And there really wasn't many people around to fill the bill. 00:06:11.040 --> 00:06:15.920 I guess in those days you weren't playing, you weren't playing B, Bebop, you were playing kind of vamps and odd meters and stuff. 00:06:16.399 --> 00:06:17.360 Yes, exactly right. 00:06:17.360 --> 00:06:18.399 Right, spot on. 00:06:18.399 --> 00:06:21.199 And we had the nine and the five and the seven. 00:06:21.199 --> 00:06:22.399 You solo over the top. 00:06:22.560 --> 00:06:24.160 And just go, just one chord that goes on for ever? 00:06:24.959 --> 00:06:30.000 And the amazing thing was, if you know, you might easily get a big advance for a record company for doing that! 00:06:30.240 --> 00:06:30.879 Fantastic. 00:06:31.199 --> 00:06:32.000 Incredible. 00:06:32.000 --> 00:06:34.480 Anyway, so yes, that's kind of what I was doing. 00:06:34.480 --> 00:06:37.759 And then I finally got in with this guy called Darryl Way. 00:06:37.759 --> 00:06:40.160 He was The Melody Maker audition. 00:06:40.160 --> 00:06:41.199 Usual thing. 00:06:41.199 --> 00:06:43.920 No breadheads will be cruel to time wasters. 00:06:44.800 --> 00:06:46.240 That was a great phrase, wasn't it? 00:06:46.240 --> 00:06:47.040 No breadheads. 00:06:47.279 --> 00:06:49.600 No breadheads will be very cruel to time wasters. 00:06:49.920 --> 00:06:50.959 I haven't heard that for years. 00:06:51.120 --> 00:06:52.560 No breadheads need apply. 00:06:53.040 --> 00:06:53.680 Oh yes. 00:06:53.680 --> 00:06:55.920 Own transport essential. 00:06:55.920 --> 00:07:04.000 He was he'd left a quite a famous band called Curved Air, who had some hits and things, and he was putting his own band together. 00:07:04.000 --> 00:07:06.160 Because I was really hardcore then. 00:07:06.160 --> 00:07:14.480 I had a little amp and was playing with a real sort of clean, not not a big jazz guitar sound, but a sort of clean sound. 00:07:14.480 --> 00:07:17.519 And but the important thing was the tiny amp, no pedals. 00:07:17.759 --> 00:07:18.000 Right. 00:07:18.000 --> 00:07:19.920 But pedals were a new thing though, right?

00:07:20.319 --> 00:07:22.399 They were a new thing, but you weren't meant to use them. 00:07:22.399 --> 00:07:33.680 I remember I remember I bought a bit of a distortion pedal, and I said to the guy at the shop, don't tell Alan, Alan Holdsworth, don't tell Alan Holdsworth, because he'll laugh, you know, he'll scoff at me because the thing was you didn't use a pedal. 00:07:33.680 --> 00:07:35.600 You got the sound from the guitar and your amp. 00:07:35.839 --> 00:07:37.199 Talent booster, I call used to call it. 00:07:37.360 --> 00:07:37.920 Well, I still do. 00:07:37.920 --> 00:07:41.920 You know, when I'm putting them up and say, Oh, George, I said it's talent boosters, you know. 00:07:41.920 --> 00:07:54.399 And and and and actually, you see, tone, which is of course an issue for saxophone players and trumpeters, the tone of the room was a big deal for me because I just had the guitar into an amplifier. 00:07:54.399 --> 00:08:03.519 And I remember all the rooms we used to play in in England, I knew what the sound was, and we'd be going off to Barbarella's in Birmingham, all red carpet. 00:08:03.519 --> 00:08:05.519 The sound was dead as a doornail. 00:08:05.680 --> 00:08:05.839 Right. 00:08:05.839 --> 00:08:06.079 Okay. 00:08:06.319 --> 00:08:08.879 And I couldn't get any resonance in my sound and everything. 00:08:08.879 --> 00:08:11.120 Of course, now you just put on another boot. 00:08:11.120 --> 00:08:13.040 Another talent master. 00:08:13.040 --> 00:08:13.360 Yeah. 00:08:13.360 --> 00:08:20.959 You put on something else, you know, a bit more reverb, a bit more delay, and you can get a sound, at least that makes you able to play. 00:08:20.959 --> 00:08:24.399 I mean, you get to a point, you know, I mean, I'm sure horn players have this. 00:08:24.399 --> 00:08:25.759 You get into a room and you just sing, 00:08:25.759 --> 00:08:26.800 it's the same with bass, double bass. 00:08:26.800 --> 00:08:29.920 Double bass is awful sometimes, yeah. 00:08:30.079 --> 00:08:30.240 Yeah. 00:08:30.240 --> 00:08:31.920 I mean that Ronnie's is dead, isn't it? 00:08:32.080 --> 00:08:33.360 Yeah, but I I meant it's great for bass. 00:08:33.360 --> 00:08:33.919 Ronnie's dead. 00:08:34.080 --> 00:08:34.720 Is it good for bass? 00:08:34.879 --> 00:08:35.600 It's great for bass, yeah. 00:08:35.600 --> 00:08:37.279 I mean, dead rooms are perfect for bass. 00:08:37.279 --> 00:08:37.600 Yeah. 00:08:37.600 --> 00:08:41.279 It's the it's when the resonance starts, the big halls, that's when you have problems with the halls. 00:08:41.360 --> 00:08:42.559 Oh, because of the other way around. 00:08:42.559 --> 00:08:43.519 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 00:08:44.320 --> 00:08:48.960 Anyway, so can we get back to uh learning jazz and standards? 00:08:48.960 --> 00:08:50.159 What about jazz standards? 00:08:50.320 --> 00:08:55.279 Ah, right, this is really interesting for me because I learnt quite a lot of jazz standards from my dad. 00:08:55.279 --> 00:09:00.879 When I got this weird offer to join Stéphane Grappelli, I actually knew quite a lot of the tunes. 00:09:00.879 --> 00:09:04.240 And I'd always played standards for practice, always. 00:09:04.240 --> 00:09:13.840 I first started playing at proper jazz standards gigs, but when I started playing in 80, 81, just before the Real Book started becoming common, you had to learn the tunes. 00:09:13.840 --> 00:09:27.279 And I was plunged in the deep end of standards playing because suddenly uh at the beginning of the 80s, I really not got any work, and and I was because I played with Grappelli, I was accepted on the jazz scene. 00:09:27.279 --> 00:09:34.799 So, what's interesting about this is not only was I learning standards, I was also learning the theory at the age of 32, 33. 00:09:34.960 --> 00:09:36.960 Because up to that point you you just played by it. 00:09:36.960 --> 00:09:37.759 Bypassed it. 00:09:37.759 --> 00:09:37.919 Okay. 00:09:37.919 --> 00:09:38.399 Yeah, right. 00:09:38.559 --> 00:09:38.879 More or less. 00:09:38.879 --> 00:09:40.639 I mean, I hadn't completely bypassed it. 00:09:40.639 --> 00:09:43.440 I'd been studying Joe Pass and everything, so I did know something. 00:09:43.440 --> 00:09:51.679 Certainly, I think my playing in the 70s was more or less semi-coped, semi-worked out, semi-earish, getting by, semi-bluff. 00:09:51.679 --> 00:09:58.639 And I remember about 81, 82, I was doing the Bull's Head and Chu Chi Mo Chan, the bass player, turned up and he had this book, the Real Book. 00:09:58.639 --> 00:10:01.120 So he was not having to learn any standards. 00:10:01.120 --> 00:10:04.399 Up until then, you really didn't have to know your tunes. 00:10:04.399 --> 00:10:09.919 The bass player Grappelli's band in Australia taught me Stella, taught me On Green Dolphin Street. 00:10:09.919 --> 00:10:16.240 So then, of course, I started properly working, I'd say, during the early 80s on my theory. 00:10:16.240 --> 00:10:26.559 So what I did, I was sort of fudged my already style into a kind of, and I still don't feel that my so-called Bebop playing is really boner. 00:10:26.559 --> 00:10:33.600 You know, when I hear somebody like Louis Stewart or Colin Oxley now or Dave Cliff, I think, well, these people are. 00:10:34.080 --> 00:10:37.679 But surely you're you're a product of your of where you came from. 00:10:38.000 --> 00:10:38.799 I'm like Schofield. 00:10:38.799 --> 00:10:42.799 I mean, Schofield is the nearest thing to me, uh, psychologically, I'd say. 00:10:42.799 --> 00:10:49.120 It's a sort of kind of mixture of bluesy, rocky, jazz, and particularly he's a scale man. 00:10:49.120 --> 00:10:53.840 I mean, that's this is a very important thing, you know, because Joe Pass and all those guys are chord tone men. 00:10:53.840 --> 00:10:56.320 We don't want to be too technical, but you know, Schofield and people. 00:10:56.799 --> 00:10:57.440 I don't mind technical. 00:10:57.600 --> 00:10:58.240 Oh, you don't mind technical. 00:10:58.480 --> 00:10:58.960 You

really like technical. 00:10:59.120 --> 00:11:01.440 Well, it's chord, it's it's it's chord tones, basically. 00:11:01.440 --> 00:11:03.200 You know, it took me ages to work that out. 00:11:03.200 --> 00:11:07.679 You know, Django, uh Django up until George Benson is chord tones. 00:11:07.679 --> 00:11:11.519 And there's a way of playing the guitar that that makes chord tones easier. 00:11:11.519 --> 00:11:15.200 And I grew up in scales, so I knew scales. 00:11:15.200 --> 00:11:18.399 I mean, the giveaway for me is when I bought Kind of Blue. 00:11:18.399 --> 00:11:22.799 And I'm reading the liner note, and it talks about this revolutionary concept of playing scales. 00:11:22.799 --> 00:11:24.240 I'm going, what? 00:11:24.240 --> 00:11:26.639 But it's all scales, isn't it? 00:11:26.639 --> 00:11:30.080 And I hadn't realized that, you know, before that, it's chord tones. 00:11:30.080 --> 00:11:32.480 I mean, Bebop is chord tones with passing notes. 00:11:32.559 --> 00:11:32.879 Yeah. 00:11:33.200 --> 00:11:35.279 Uh, even though it might sound like scales, it's not. 00:11:35.279 --> 00:11:37.919 And Joe Pass never consciously plays a scale. 00:11:37.919 --> 00:11:40.240 Uh, it's chord tones with passing notes. 00:11:40.399 --> 00:11:40.480 Right. 00:11:40.639 --> 00:11:44.480 You know, so you join it up and it sounds like a scale, but it's not actually consciously a scale. 00:11:44.559 --> 00:11:44.639 Right. 00:11:44.639 --> 00:11:46.080 So you're getting into modes, aren't you? 00:11:46.080 --> 00:11:46.639 That's where we're talking about. 00:11:46.799 --> 00:11:47.200 Well, exactly. 00:11:47.200 --> 00:11:48.240 Well, we talk about modes. 00:11:48.240 --> 00:11:50.879 And it's all the same notes but thought of in a different way. 00:11:51.279 --> 00:11:52.639 Do you want to pick us a tune for us? 00:11:52.799 --> 00:11:54.240 Well, we were going to do Killer Joe. 00:11:54.399 --> 00:11:54.720 Excellent. 00:11:54.720 --> 00:11:56.080 Right, so here comes Killer Joe. 00:11:56.080 --> 00:11:58.639 You're going to play two choruses there's an eight bar introduction. 00:11:58.799 --> 00:11:59.759 Sounds brilliant. 00:12:00.159 --> 00:12:00.879 Here we go. 00:12:00.879 --> 00:14:16.000 How was that? 00:14:16.000 --> 00:14:16.720 For you? 00:14:16.879 --> 00:14:17.279 That was fine. 00:14:17.279 --> 00:14:18.639 Yes, enjoyed that. 00:14:18.639 --> 00:14:19.279 Lovely. 00:14:19.440 --> 00:14:20.080 Yeah. 00:14:20.080 --> 00:14:27.759 I've got some questions. 00:14:27.759 --> 00:14:29.120 A series of questions. 00:14:29.120 --> 00:14:32.320 Question number one Have you got a favourite album? 00:14:32.559 --> 00:14:37.279 So I mean I did love Extrapolation In a Silent Way, one of my favourite all-time albums. 00:14:37.279 --> 00:14:42.960 I actually um name drop, played, did a rec recorded with Tony Williams. 00:14:42.960 --> 00:14:45.120 He said told me how much he hated that album. 00:14:45.279 --> 00:14:47.519 So what tell us about recording with Tony Williams? 00:14:47.840 --> 00:14:51.600 Uh well it was uh a violinist called Didier Lockwood, French guitar violinist. 00:14:52.320 --> 00:14:54.399 You've got what is it you're playing with violin players? 00:14:55.120 --> 00:14:55.519 I don't know. 00:14:55.519 --> 00:14:56.879 I don't know what that is. 00:14:56.879 --> 00:14:58.720 It it's nothing, I don't even 00:14:58.720 --> 00:15:00.000 You play with one and then the other one here. 00:15:00.720 --> 00:15:01.440 Maybe that's it. 00:15:01.440 --> 00:15:05.440 I mean, certainly after I played with Stéphane, Nigel Kennedy used to come and play with us. 00:15:05.440 --> 00:15:07.519 So I played with him from that. 00:15:07.519 --> 00:15:09.919 But anyway, Didier Lockwood. 00:15:09.919 --> 00:15:15.120 So he's making his first solo album, very ambitious young guy, and I'd met him through Stéphane Grappelli. 00:15:15.120 --> 00:15:18.399 And uh so he used to come and play on the gig sometimes. 00:15:18.399 --> 00:15:23.360 So he had Tony Williams, Niels Pedderson, Gordon Beck, and John McLaughlin lined up for his album. 00:15:23.519 --> 00:15:23.679 Wow. 00:15:23.840 --> 00:15:29.120 And John McLaughlin dropped out, so he phoned me and said, uh, in man, you come and play. 00:15:29.120 --> 00:15:30.240 And I went, Oh, what? 00:15:30.240 --> 00:15:31.840 I'm depping for John McLoughlin. 00:15:31.840 --> 00:15:34.879 Then it was two days recording, and I missed the first day because I had a gig with Grappelli. 00:15:34.879 --> 00:15:44.000 Anyway, so I get up in the morning here, six o'clock in the morning, to fly to Stuttgart with my electric guitar that hadn't really played, and I arrive at the studio. 00:15:44.000 --> 00:15:53.679 As they open the door, they're going, Tony Williams, Niels Penderson, Gordon Beck, Didier Lockwell. 00:15:53.919 --> 00:15:55.039 Playing Giant Steps? 00:15:55.440 --> 00:15:58.159 And I thought, I'm just going to turn around and walk off. 00:15:58.159 --> 00:16:01.600 But he looked at me and said, Oh, don't worry, this is just quartet. 00:16:01.600 --> 00:16:04.159 I thought he was going to say, Unpack your guitar. 00:16:04.159 --> 00:16:04.960 Come on, man. 00:16:05.519 --> 00:16:06.000 See what you've got. 00:16:06.000 --> 00:16:08.320 Jeez. 00:16:08.639 --> 00:16:11.600 But I do remember the first track I did with him. 00:16:11.600 --> 00:16:15.360 And it comes to my solo and I start soloing. 00:16:15.360 --> 00:16:18.480 Because it's all live, you know, and I've only been there about 10 minutes. 00:16:18.480 --> 00:16:20.240 So I'm starting soloing. 00:16:20.240 --> 00:16:23.840 And I look over and I go, bloody hell, that's Tony Williams. 00:16:23.840 --> 00:16:26.480 And everything just like, uh. 00:16:26.480 --> 00:16:30.080 And they wouldn't let me do it again. 00:16:30.080 --> 00:16:32.559 It doesn't sound that dreadful. 00:16:32.559 --> 00:16:43.279 It sounds, you know, a lot of guitar soloing in the 70s in the sort of semi-jazz rock vein sounds is not

really very coherent. 00:16:43.279 --> 00:16:45.120 So it sounds like one of those sort of solos. 00:16:45.440 --> 00:16:45.759 Fantastic. 00:16:46.000 --> 00:16:47.600 Anyway, so we were talking about The Silent Way. 00:16:47.600 --> 00:16:49.039 He said, I hate u that album. 00:16:49.039 --> 00:16:54.559 Of course, you know, you know. 00:16:54.559 --> 00:17:06.799 I mean, I that album just absolutely, when I heard it, I thought the whole thing, the whole thing with the three keyboard players doing, and I love a thing that has no changes but has chords. 00:17:06.799 --> 00:17:11.680 I mean, I fell in love with the whole fourths thing completely around that time. 00:17:11.680 --> 00:17:20.720 So you're doing all these sort of, you know, there's a pedal point and you're doing all these weird fourths that that don't really, it's like a sort of snake pit of sounds. 00:17:20.880 --> 00:17:21.039 Nice. 00:17:21.200 --> 00:17:24.000 And it's Joe Zawinal, Herbie Hancock, and Chick- is it Herbie? 00:17:24.000 --> 00:17:26.400 It's totally Chick Corea, I think Herbie. 00:17:26.400 --> 00:17:28.799 And they're all not allowed to do much. 00:17:28.799 --> 00:17:31.200 That's great because Miles doesn't let them do anything. 00:17:31.200 --> 00:17:32.799 So that's why Tony hated it. 00:17:32.799 --> 00:17:39.759 Because he felt he wasn't allowed to, you know, splash out and be Tony Williams and speed up like mad. 00:17:40.720 --> 00:17:41.200 There you go. 00:17:41.359 --> 00:17:42.640 That's always the justification. 00:17:42.640 --> 00:17:46.079 If you're a speeder-upper, you go, No, Tony Williams. 00:17:46.319 --> 00:17:46.880 Tony Williams. 00:17:46.880 --> 00:17:49.039 Yeah, actually, I spoke to Ira Coleman, actually. 00:17:49.039 --> 00:17:52.559 I went for a drink with the bass player Ira Coleman who played with Tony a lot. 00:17:52.559 --> 00:17:54.000 And he he talked about that actually. 00:17:54.000 --> 00:17:58.160 He said, Yeah, Tony would different sections of the tune would be at different tempos. 00:17:58.160 --> 00:17:58.799 Yes. 00:17:58.799 --> 00:18:03.200 Um, you know, you get to the bridge and all of a sudden you just go, whoa, whoa, whoa, and then you come back again. 00:18:03.440 --> 00:18:03.839 Well, exactly. 00:18:03.839 --> 00:18:05.759 Which is like musical. 00:18:06.160 --> 00:18:06.960 I guess, yeah. 00:18:07.200 --> 00:18:10.799 If you're used to it, you'll find it quite uh yeah. 00:18:10.799 --> 00:18:12.880 I I I wouldn't like 00:18:12.880 --> 00:18:14.000 I don't think I'd like that very much. 00:18:14.240 --> 00:18:14.559 No. 00:18:14.559 --> 00:18:20.480 A, I wouldn't, I'm sure as a bass player, you wouldn't enjoy playing with Tony. 00:18:20.480 --> 00:18:21.920 You'd enjoy playing with Elvin. 00:18:22.160 --> 00:18:22.480 Yeah. 00:18:22.720 --> 00:18:25.359 Jack, probably, but you I don't think you'd enjoy playing with it. 00:18:25.359 --> 00:18:31.359 Ron Carter apparently used to freak out every so often and just throw

down the bass and go, I can't cope with this anymore. 00:18:31.599 --> 00:18:32.240 Yeah. 00:18:32.240 --> 00:18:40.160 And and um it seems it seems quite selfish to me if someone does that, you know, it's it doesn't seem considerate on your. 00:18:40.640 --> 00:18:47.119 Well, I have, I mean, my impression was not of a particularly popular or considerate guy. 00:18:47.119 --> 00:18:52.720 But have the bottle just to do that and not feel self-conscious and just go, well, this is what I do. 00:18:52.720 --> 00:19:00.799 And of course, this is the the the often think when people talk about AI, I think about clicks and what's happened with the click. 00:19:00.799 --> 00:19:03.519 The click was meant to be the servant, help you. 00:19:03.519 --> 00:19:08.160 Then it becomes the master, and everybody has to be able to play spot on the click. 00:19:08.160 --> 00:19:14.960 I remember somebody, Richard Harvey, talking about um some famous Russian drummer, he said, he's so amazing. 00:19:14.960 --> 00:19:18.240 You lose the click because he's so perfectly with the click. 00:19:18.319 --> 00:19:18.640 Yeah. 00:19:18.799 --> 00:19:22.559 So that becomes the mark of a great drummer that you play perfectly with the click. 00:19:22.799 --> 00:19:27.359 Well, okay, question number two Is there a musician alive or dead that you would like to play with? 00:19:27.599 --> 00:19:29.920 Oh god, these these are these are the these questions. 00:19:29.920 --> 00:19:31.200 You should warn me in advance. 00:19:31.200 --> 00:19:36.160 I would have loved to have played in Miles because I thought I would be good in Miles's band. 00:19:36.480 --> 00:19:36.720 Yeah. 00:19:36.960 --> 00:19:39.519 Miles had those kind of guitar players. 00:19:39.519 --> 00:19:40.640 He kind of liked them. 00:19:40.640 --> 00:19:42.559 They're sort of in-between guitar players. 00:19:42.559 --> 00:19:45.680 He didn't really like a proper jazz guitarist, and he didn't like a proper guitar. 00:19:45.920 --> 00:19:47.279 Which is what we've just already mentioned, yeah. 00:19:48.000 --> 00:19:48.880 The in-between guys. 00:19:48.880 --> 00:19:51.680 So I always thought, oh, I'd be love to play with them. 00:19:51.680 --> 00:19:56.079 Not not every I'd love to play with millions of people, but I thought I'd be good with Miles. 00:19:56.079 --> 00:19:57.279 It would suit me. 00:19:57.359 --> 00:19:57.519 Yeah. 00:19:57.680 --> 00:20:05.599 And I'd get on with him because he liked that all those guys he liked, like McLaughlin and Schofield, particularly, he's Mike Stern to a certain extent. 00:20:05.599 --> 00:20:08.640 They're not neat and tidy, yeah. 00:20:08.640 --> 00:20:12.160 Uh and they're but they're a bit leary, a bit loud. 00:20:12.160 --> 00:20:15.519 So I've always thought I'd be, you know, I was always, you know. 00:20:16.000 --> 00:20:19.039 Are you still a bit leary now now that you're a mature? 00:20:19.680 --> 00:20:20.559 Yeah, I tend to be. 00:20:20.559 --> 00:20:21.680 I can't help

it really. 00:20:21.680 --> 00:20:23.039 It's just my my character. 00:20:23.039 --> 00:20:25.680 And of course, in the Soft Machine, you know, yeah, very, very. 00:20:25.680 --> 00:20:32.000 But even when I do uh sort of standards gigs, I remember one of those Jazz in London gigs that I'd never done. 00:20:32.000 --> 00:20:34.160 And I finally phoned up the bloke who said, You've never booked me. 00:20:34.160 --> 00:20:35.599 He said, Oh, yeah, but what would you do? 00:20:35.599 --> 00:20:36.640 Would you do rock and roll? 00:20:36.640 --> 00:20:44.240 I said, No, no, mate, I'll do a, I'll, I'll have um, I think I I said, I'll book John Donaldson, was it Klein, Dale? 00:20:44.240 --> 00:20:45.759 or somebody, and and Tristan Mayo. 00:20:45.759 --> 00:20:46.880 He said, Oh, that's all right then. 00:20:46.960 --> 00:20:47.119 Yeah. 00:20:47.200 --> 00:20:48.559 I said, I'll book those people. 00:20:48.559 --> 00:20:49.759 Okay, right. 00:20:49.759 --> 00:20:53.440 But I couldn't resist taking a couple of pedals. 00:20:53.440 --> 00:21:01.680 So I played the game, yeah, and it was standards, it was really good, and I really enjoyed it, but I, you know, tweaked the sound a bit. 00:21:02.559 --> 00:21:03.599 Have some of that, son. 00:21:04.240 --> 00:21:05.039 Just a little bit. 00:21:05.039 --> 00:21:06.000 Just a little bit. 00:21:06.079 --> 00:21:06.160 Yeah. 00:21:06.160 --> 00:21:07.839 Right, next question. 00:21:07.839 --> 00:21:10.319 What would you say was the highlight of your career? 00:21:10.640 --> 00:21:18.079 Well, there have been a few highlights, but the early highlight was definitely playing at the Albert Hall with Stephan Grappelli in 1978, 79. 00:21:18.079 --> 00:21:27.920 It was like a pinnacle, and everybody was there, and my parents, and everybody was there, and it was like a uh it was fantastic, high moment. 00:21:28.160 --> 00:21:30.480 Was that the biggest gig you'd ever done at that point in your life? 00:21:30.640 --> 00:21:41.359 Yes, in a way, and it was televised and everything, and it's up on YouTube actually, and it's one of the ones of mine that's got the most hits because it's a sort of long acoustic guitar solo with Grappelli. 00:21:41.359 --> 00:21:42.960 So that was a side. 00:21:42.960 --> 00:21:50.160 Then there was sort of doldrums in the 80s, which was, although I was playing a lot of jazz gigs, everything was somehow unfocused. 00:21:50.160 --> 00:21:52.640 I was just sort of playing around with everybody. 00:21:52.640 --> 00:21:53.039 It was great. 00:21:53.039 --> 00:21:57.759 I was learning stuff and everything, but the 80s was pretty miserable for people of my generation anyway. 00:21:57.759 --> 00:21:59.599 Then I suppose there were the highlights. 00:21:59.599 --> 00:22:08.319 Came another lot of highlights came later on, like um, you know, with John Williams when we did a uh live album in Dublin and things like that. 00:22:08.319 --> 00:22:09.279 And um, 00:22:09.279 --> 00:22:10.640 Did you know John before that? 00:22:10.960 --> 00:22:15.440 Well, kind of, just socially around Hampstead. 00:22:15.440 --> 00:22:22.400 I mean, this happened, I think, because a friend of mine, I did the Grappelli tribute thing, Sweet Chorus. 00:22:22.400 --> 00:22:27.119 And I think this friend of mine gave John uh the album or something. 00:22:27.119 --> 00:22:30.319 He so he was aware of me, but then he phoned me up and said, Let's do something. 00:22:30.319 --> 00:22:31.920 I said, I can't play with John Williams. 00:22:31.920 --> 00:22:34.319 How can I play with John Williams, the world's greatest classical guitarist? 00:22:34.319 --> 00:22:36.960 But he had a very clear picture of what he wanted me to do. 00:22:36.960 --> 00:22:50.559 So, first of all, we had a band doing African stuff, and then quite soon after that, we had a duo, which went on for about seven or eight years, which took quite a lot of organizing because his frames of reference completely different. 00:22:50.559 --> 00:22:52.799 You know, classical musicians are in a different world. 00:22:53.359 --> 00:22:55.039 So he presumably doesn't improvise. 00:22:55.359 --> 00:22:55.839 No, not at all. 00:22:55.839 --> 00:22:57.119 Absolutely not at all. 00:22:57.119 --> 00:22:57.680 That's the rule. 00:22:57.680 --> 00:22:59.519 First rule, I don't improvise, he says. 00:22:59.920 --> 00:23:00.079 Okay. 00:23:00.400 --> 00:23:06.079 And actually, occasionally he does, but I would never draw his attention to it because he'd go, No, no, no. 00:23:06.480 --> 00:23:06.880 Right. 00:23:07.039 --> 00:23:10.000 Um, we have certain pieces where he he would actually 00:23:10.000 --> 00:23:13.839 So just give me an example of what uh a tune you might play together and how you'd organise it. 00:23:14.000 --> 00:23:16.799 There was a tune, let's say, called Triangular Situations, okay? 00:23:16.799 --> 00:23:19.519 It's a Cape Verdean tune, quite simple. 00:23:19.519 --> 00:23:24.559 The slightly frustrating thing for me was he's quite capable of playing the whole thing himself. 00:23:24.559 --> 00:23:26.960 But he'd say, Well, you play the melody line. 00:23:27.119 --> 00:23:27.279 Okay. 00:23:27.440 --> 00:23:35.039 So I'd play the melody line, he'd he'd pull off his third finger and play accompaniment, and I'd play the melody line and do an improvised solo. 00:23:35.039 --> 00:23:37.599 He would also do solos, but he'd write them down. 00:23:37.599 --> 00:23:40.640 He'd say, I'm gonna write out my improvisation. 00:23:40.880 --> 00:23:41.759 So he'd composed his solo. 00:23:42.319 --> 00:23:43.839 He composed his improvisation so much. 00:23:43.839 --> 00:23:48.720 So we did a lot quite a lot of these African guitar tunes, so they work fine. 00:23:48.720 --> 00:23:50.640 Then we had some pieces written for us. 00:23:50.640 --> 00:23:52.960 A guy called Ben Verder wrote this. 00:23:52.960 --> 00:23:55.519 This is you'd love this as a jazzer. 00:23:55.519 --> 00:24:02.400 So basically, this guy, Ben

Verder, writes this incredibly complicated, atonal-ish sort of piece, right? 00:24:02.400 --> 00:24:04.160 I just get the score. 00:24:04.160 --> 00:24:06.000 No tape, nothing. 00:24:06.000 --> 00:24:07.519 Just the score. 00:24:07.519 --> 00:24:15.440 So I'm trying to figure out, you know, pick it, pick through it and no chords, no, nothing, nothing, 00:24:15.440 --> 00:24:16.000 just notation? 00:24:16.240 --> 00:24:16.960 Just notation. 00:24:17.200 --> 00:24:17.440 Right. 00:24:17.599 --> 00:24:26.240 And sort of arbitrary uh contemporary stuff, you know, which if it was an improvisation, you go, you're fine, but it's you've got to play what's written. 00:24:26.240 --> 00:24:30.799 And trying to get it in your head, in your ear is like really difficult. 00:24:30.799 --> 00:24:38.960 And of course I go around and see him, he goes, bring out the part and play his part, just read it like a piano player, you know. 00:24:38.960 --> 00:24:48.240 And I always used to think that if I had a rehearsal with John, I'd rehearse myself for two hours before I got to John's for the because you know, I I I 00:24:48.240 --> 00:24:49.599 did you feel intimidated by the other thing. 00:24:49.759 --> 00:24:56.720 Yeah, I did, I did, but he's he's he's A, he's a really good bloke, and he appreciated what I did. 00:24:56.720 --> 00:24:57.200 Yeah. 00:24:57.200 --> 00:24:59.920 He liked the kind of improvisational jazz thing. 00:24:59.920 --> 00:25:02.880 Obviously, he's not impressed by any of the any technical things. 00:25:02.880 --> 00:25:16.079 No, but he he they you know, people like him like like this idea of improvisational things, and um, yeah, I was intimidated, and uh uh, but he's not intimidating, no, and also he knew what I could do. 00:25:16.079 --> 00:25:20.240 I mean, when I first met him, I thought, well, is he gonna want me to play classical duets with him? 00:25:20.240 --> 00:25:20.880 That's hopeless. 00:25:20.880 --> 00:25:34.880 I'll never do so um, but such a good bloke, and also such a fan of sort of jazz guitar and guitar and and all guitars, and so he really liked what I did in a way, you know. 00:25:34.880 --> 00:25:44.400 I mean, I think some some of it would annoy him a bit, I mean, because he he's very precise, you know, and but he didn't seem to mind imprecision. 00:25:44.400 --> 00:25:48.559 I think he took that in it, you know, because he was really, really precise. 00:25:48.559 --> 00:25:53.279 I think he quite valued sort of off the wallness, you know, not that I was totally off the wallness. 00:25:53.519 --> 00:25:56.880 Well, he just respected the fact that you could actually improvise that's the bottom line. 00:25:57.359 --> 00:25:57.599 Exactly. 00:25:57.599 --> 00:25:59.599 But I mean he's the he's he's the in charge. 00:25:59.599 --> 00:26:06.160 I mean when we go abroad, I mean people know me here, but you go to America or something, and he'd insist we got equal billing. 00:26:06.160 --> 00:26:07.440 Fantastic, you know. 00:26:07.440 --> 00:26:10.640 You know, nobody, you know, it's John Williams and who is this guy? 00:26:10.640 --> 00:26:11.359 you know. 00:26:12.160 --> 00:26:13.119 Wow, that's incredible. 00:26:13.440 --> 00:26:14.640 And it was fantastic. 00:26:14.640 --> 00:26:15.920 We did tours all over the place. 00:26:15.920 --> 00:26:28.960 I mean, he is a really great guy, really, because you know, like all of us we've worked with, but some of them who aren't on a personal, all of them are great musicians, but some on a personal level are not so 00:26:28.960 --> 00:26:29.680 incredible. 00:26:29.680 --> 00:26:31.119 Um, right, next question. 00:26:31.119 --> 00:26:33.200 What would you say is your musical weakness? 00:26:36.400 --> 00:26:38.000 Oh, well, there's plenty of them. 00:26:38.000 --> 00:26:47.759 I mean, I think, I think over the years, probably the time thing, really, I think, I think uh I've really worked on that in the last few years, you know. 00:26:47.759 --> 00:26:54.160 Because I have to tell you, talking talking of weakneses, it's the first ever jazz, proper jazz gig I did. 00:26:54.160 --> 00:26:59.039 I'd done Stéphane Grappelli, but that's okay. 00:26:59.039 --> 00:27:03.920 So, and if anything went slightly strange, Stéphane would just turn around and stop playing. 00:27:03.920 --> 00:27:07.359 So he was used to a completely rong, chonk, rigid time thing. 00:27:07.359 --> 00:27:11.039 So I got Michael Garrick phoned me up and said, Will you come and do a gig? 00:27:11.039 --> 00:27:14.640 Michael Garrick, me, Chris Lawrence, and AJ. 00:27:14.640 --> 00:27:17.119 Yeah, Alan Jackson, sorry. 00:27:17.119 --> 00:27:18.480 It was at the 100 Club. 00:27:18.480 --> 00:27:19.519 Right, Stella. 00:27:19.519 --> 00:27:30.079 So he starts, and and Chris is up the dusty end, and AJ's going, I don't know where I am, I don't know what's going on. 00:27:30.079 --> 00:27:34.880 Luckily, my harmonic ear was particularly then was pretty sharp. 00:27:34.880 --> 00:27:35.119 Yeah. 00:27:35.119 --> 00:27:38.160 And I just busked off the chords I could hear. 00:27:38.160 --> 00:27:43.680 And and kept my, you know, well, not a smile, but kept a look on my face like I know what I'm doing. 00:27:43.680 --> 00:27:45.680 And the whole gig was like that. 00:27:45.680 --> 00:27:46.880 I don't know where I am. 00:27:46.880 --> 00:27:51.039 Does looking back, I said, does because AJ was just playing cymbal. 00:27:51.039 --> 00:27:52.480 No hits. 00:27:52.480 --> 00:27:58.720 And we did have 40 minutes or something, and at the end, Tim Whitehead came up and said, Where was the one? 00:27:58.720 --> 00:27:59.920 What? 00:27:59.920 --> 00:28:01.440 Do I know? 00:28:01.440 --> 00:28:05.119 You know, Herbie Hancock always says, I love getting lost, find your way back. 00:28:05.279 --> 00:28:05.839 That's true, yeah. 00:28:06.079 --> 00:28:07.039 Because that's confidence. 00:28:07.039 --> 00:28:09.599 When you've got no confidence, you're going, I'm playing with

John Taylor. 00:28:09.839 --> 00:28:13.519 It's a bit different, though, if you're a soloist and you have chords, someone accompanying you. 00:28:13.519 --> 00:28:14.799 Well, if you're a bass player, 00:28:14.799 --> 00:28:15.839 oh god, you've had it. 00:28:16.079 --> 00:28:18.640 And you and you get to your solo and everyone drops out. 00:28:18.880 --> 00:28:20.000 Oh, of course they do. 00:28:20.000 --> 00:28:23.440 That's why I always say to women, marry a bass player. 00:28:23.440 --> 00:28:28.240 Because bass players learn to be supportive and unappreciated. 00:28:28.240 --> 00:28:28.880 You know. 00:28:29.119 --> 00:28:30.559 So that's your musical weakness, right? 00:28:30.640 --> 00:28:31.039 I would say. 00:28:31.359 --> 00:28:34.400 Okay, so the next question: do you ever get nervous on stage? 00:28:34.720 --> 00:28:37.359 Uh not generally, but various times. 00:28:37.359 --> 00:28:48.799 I mean, when John Williams and I did the live album, he decided that we were going to do a duo and we were going to do a live album in front of a thousand people at the guitar festival in Dublin. 00:28:48.799 --> 00:28:53.119 So Paco Peña was there, Manuel Barrueco was there, all sorts of people were there. 00:28:53.119 --> 00:28:55.839 I did say something like, do we have to do this live? 00:28:55.839 --> 00:28:57.920 He said, It'll be fine, it'll be fine, it'll be fine. 00:28:57.920 --> 00:29:06.799 But I do find that that generally, I mean, if I have time off and I go back, I don't think I'm a natural exhibitionist, really. 00:29:06.799 --> 00:29:09.119 People think I am, but I'm I don't think I am. 00:29:09.119 --> 00:29:17.680 And I think the giveaway, I don't know how you were during lockdown, I really had no compulsion to go on Facebook and play stuff and be seen by people. 00:29:17.920 --> 00:29:18.000 No. 00:29:18.319 --> 00:29:24.559 I mean, I'm not knocking or judging at all, but the people who are really are extroverts, they were meaningfully, 00:29:24.559 --> 00:29:24.960 they struggled. 00:29:25.200 --> 00:29:25.599 They struggled. 00:29:25.920 --> 00:29:27.039 They needed, they needed an audience, 00:29:27.039 --> 00:29:28.319 they needed an audience, exactly. 00:29:28.319 --> 00:29:34.000 And I think actually those kind of people, if they're really talented as well, are the people who are going to succeed. 00:29:34.000 --> 00:29:41.519 Pat Metheny, you know, immensely talented, always, and also wants to be out there, you know, if you've got that combination. 00:29:42.079 --> 00:29:44.240 You've also you've also played with Pat Metheny, haven't you? 00:29:44.319 --> 00:29:45.440 I I have played with Pat Metheny. 00:29:45.440 --> 00:29:46.240 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 00:29:46.240 --> 00:29:52.559 In fact, we're, you know, we we we're fairly good, um, you know, I see him when he comes over. 00:29:52.960 --> 00:29:53.279 Right. 00:29:53.440 --> 00:29:55.279 But I played him that one day, yes. 00:29:55.279 --> 00:29:59.279 One day, my one day with Pat Metheny, it's my day with Pat Metheny. 00:29:59.279 --> 00:29:59.440 Right. 00:29:59.440 --> 00:30:03.039 We played three or four sort of promo gigs. 00:30:03.359 --> 00:30:05.680 He strikes me as someone who's who knows what he wants. 00:30:05.680 --> 00:30:07.119 And absolutely. 00:30:07.119 --> 00:30:09.119 And you have to do it his way, right? 00:30:09.440 --> 00:30:10.079 Absolutely. 00:30:10.079 --> 00:30:10.799 Yeah, yes. 00:30:10.799 --> 00:30:16.160 I knew instinctively that I wouldn't uh be soloing, and I was quite happy about that. 00:30:16.160 --> 00:30:16.960 They told me what they wanted. 00:30:17.279 --> 00:30:18.079 He didn't give you a solo? 00:30:18.240 --> 00:30:23.599 He wants you to play nylon classical guitar and back him up, okay, basically, and that's what I did. 00:30:23.599 --> 00:30:23.839 Right. 00:30:23.839 --> 00:30:28.640 And I was very happy to do that because you know, you spend the day with a guy like that. 00:30:28.640 --> 00:30:32.319 I mean, he's so um I think Taylor Swift must be like that. 00:30:32.319 --> 00:30:41.039 You get every combination of talent, character, personality, melds to produce almost the perfect individual. 00:30:41.039 --> 00:30:44.960 In other words, you've got all it takes to be successful, 00:30:44.960 --> 00:30:46.799 and organizational skills. 00:30:47.119 --> 00:30:49.119 Everything, every kind of skill. 00:30:49.119 --> 00:30:52.640 And if you if you're like that, you're unstoppable. 00:30:52.640 --> 00:31:03.119 You know, most of us have got good bits and then bits that that the f that war internally with our other bits and are conflicted and over this and conflicted over that. 00:31:03.119 --> 00:31:10.160 But if you're like that, you are really well adapted to succeed really well in the world. 00:31:10.160 --> 00:31:16.720 I mean, I went to his solo thing a couple of what is it last year, and it's masterful, you know. 00:31:16.720 --> 00:31:18.240 You know, it's not about chops. 00:31:18.240 --> 00:31:24.720 I mean, if you talk about his classical chop, I mean he's you know, his his finger style technique, it's not, you know. 00:31:25.039 --> 00:31:26.160 It's not John Williams, is it? 00:31:26.559 --> 00:31:36.160 No, no, but he, you know, he he he's he's got it so organized, he's so musical, he's got so many ideas, puts it all together, and the whole show sort of developed. 00:31:36.160 --> 00:31:42.960 Started off just classical on the on the nylon guitar, and he was sort of improvising chords and things. 00:31:42.960 --> 00:31:44.640 I thought, wow, this is hardcore. 00:31:44.640 --> 00:31:46.400 Is he gonna do this for two hours? 00:31:46.400 --> 00:31:55.200 And of course, no, no, and gradually he brought in some standards, then gradually brought in some looping, and then there were all sorts of things under wrapped. 00:31:55.200 --> 00:32:00.240 Then it turns out then he got by the end he's got the Orchestrian on, about five loops. 00:32:00.240 --> 00:32:05.519

Absolutely brilliant in terms of architecture, and and absolutely brilliant. 00:32:05.519 --> 00:32:08.079 So he's on another level, actually. 00:32:08.319 --> 00:32:08.960 He is, yeah. 00:32:08.960 --> 00:32:09.680 Yeah. 00:32:09.680 --> 00:32:12.640 Okay, so have you ever been starstruck? 00:32:12.960 --> 00:32:13.759 Oh god, yeah. 00:32:13.759 --> 00:32:16.400 I'm again I'm dreadfully starstruck, still am. 00:32:16.640 --> 00:32:16.880 Really? 00:32:17.119 --> 00:32:32.319 First of all, I I I suppose uh, you know, some of the people I played with, I mean, we've talked about John Williams, but I mean, when I first played with Grappelli, because I was a Django Reinhardt freak, I used to lie in my bed when I was 15 listening to Django records, thinking, Stéphane Grappelli's still alive. 00:32:32.319 --> 00:32:36.400 I might, I might get to meet him or get to see him play or something. 00:32:36.400 --> 00:32:41.279 Yeah, and then suddenly, out of the blue, this was totally out of the blue how I got this job. 00:32:41.279 --> 00:32:42.880 It was absolutely bizarre. 00:32:42.880 --> 00:32:48.079 You know, fusion guitar, jazz rock guitarist suddenly playing with Stéphane Grappelli. 00:32:48.079 --> 00:32:50.400 And I thought, wow, I'm pinching myself. 00:32:50.400 --> 00:32:57.519 But I mean, I remember looking at him uh the first couple of gigs and I think, I can't believe I'm I'm sitting on stage with Stéphane Grappelli. 00:32:57.519 --> 00:33:00.400 It can't be real, you know. 00:33:00.400 --> 00:33:03.440 It's like it's like your dream, everybody should have that in their life. 00:33:03.440 --> 00:33:04.480 The dream comes true. 00:33:04.720 --> 00:33:05.599 Yeah, sure, yeah. 00:33:05.759 --> 00:33:06.319 You know. 00:33:07.359 --> 00:33:09.839 We've got some other questions which are not musical related now. 00:33:10.079 --> 00:33:10.640 Go on then. 00:33:10.799 --> 00:33:13.119 Starting with what's your favourite sandwich? 00:33:13.599 --> 00:33:21.519 Ah, well, I'd probably say uh Wensley dale, Carrot and Chutney from M&S. 00:33:21.519 --> 00:33:22.799 That's a really good sandwich. 00:33:23.039 --> 00:33:23.359 Okay. 00:33:23.519 --> 00:33:27.920 My mum used to make the most fabulous egg sandwiches with a bit of Marmite. 00:33:28.160 --> 00:33:29.359 Oh, that's a good combo. 00:33:29.759 --> 00:33:39.279 Homemade, yeah, yeah, just a little bit of um, and then of course I like I do like the sort of hummus red pepper sort of uh organic-y sandwiches. 00:33:39.279 --> 00:33:46.480 But if I if I stop at the M&S on the motorway, I always get the Wensleydale carrot and chutney. 00:33:47.039 --> 00:33:48.240 Excellent, excellent. 00:33:48.240 --> 00:33:48.720 Right. 00:33:48.720 --> 00:33:50.160 Do you have a favourite movie? 00:33:50.400 --> 00:33:54.160 For years I'd have said Duel, which was Steven Spielberg's first film. 00:33:54.720 --> 00:33:56.880 That's where the trucks and then uh 00:33:56.880 --> 00:34:01.279 because I mean, in a way, it's

a sort of uh a nerdy reason. 00:34:01.279 --> 00:34:14.559 It's because you you I'm just bowled over how, with nothing, with no budget, no actors, nothing at all, he creates this amazing tension and it's so compact. 00:34:14.559 --> 00:34:22.159 You know, you can tell from that, you know, what the quality of that guy is, you know, the mixture of visual genius and the common touch, you know. 00:34:22.400 --> 00:34:23.039 Sure, yeah. 00:34:23.280 --> 00:34:29.039 But also, when I was a kid, uh Bonnie and Clyde, when I was 19, I watched Bonnie and Clyde about eight, nine times. 00:34:29.039 --> 00:34:30.800 I knew the whole script off by heart. 00:34:30.800 --> 00:34:33.039 What are you doing with my mummer's car, boy? 00:34:33.039 --> 00:34:39.760 Wait there, and she goes down, and then she starts nodding him and he pushes her off because he's not into sex. 00:34:39.760 --> 00:34:42.559 And she goes, You're advertising just dandy. 00:34:42.559 --> 00:34:45.119 Folks would never guess you don't have a thing to sell. 00:34:45.119 --> 00:34:47.440 And I I absolutely love that film. 00:34:47.440 --> 00:34:50.559 And and in 1967, that film, I mean it's all wrong. 00:34:50.559 --> 00:34:58.719 The the the kind of glorification of violence and us falling in love with these beautiful, violent people, and and the end, we were just stunned. 00:34:58.800 --> 00:34:59.119 Yeah, 00:34:59.119 --> 00:35:00.320 they were machine gunned at the end. 00:35:00.320 --> 00:35:02.239 And it's run out and it's and it freezes, doesn't it? 00:35:02.239 --> 00:35:09.039 Yeah, uh we all me and my friend Nikki, we just sat in the cinema like this, couldn't move. 00:35:09.280 --> 00:35:12.400 So, um is do you have a favourite venue to play in? 00:35:12.559 --> 00:35:18.079 Yeah, I would say my I've got my home in London is The Vortex, really. 00:35:18.079 --> 00:35:19.199 I love The Vortex. 00:35:19.199 --> 00:35:22.800 It's actually they've in terms of sound, they've improved it loads. 00:35:22.800 --> 00:35:25.119 And I've started The Vortex in 1988. 00:35:25.440 --> 00:35:26.880 When it used to be in Stoke Newington, 00:35:26.880 --> 00:35:27.920 yeah, yeah, 88, I think. 00:35:27.920 --> 00:35:30.559 So I've been there for for how how many years is that? 00:35:30.559 --> 00:35:33.760 38 years moving around. 00:35:33.760 --> 00:35:39.440 I Ronnie's, obviously, but I I mean I do Ronnie's with the Soft Machine a bit and all that. 00:35:39.440 --> 00:35:53.760 I do a lot at the Pizza, but I think probably uh uh uh in London, um The Vortex, in the sense of how I feel about it, and and all the volunteers there, and it's like kind of homey kind of thing for me. 00:35:54.079 --> 00:35:55.360 You've travelled obviously a lot. 00:35:55.360 --> 00:35:57.760 Do you have a favourite city that you like to go to? 00:35:58.079 --> 00:36:02.880 Yeah, with the Soft Machine we did uh quite a lot of international, but we did Scandinavian tour. 00:36:02.880 --> 00:36:05.360 I love those cities,

Copenhagen, Stockholm. 00:36:05.360 --> 00:36:06.559 I love them. 00:36:06.559 --> 00:36:09.360 Yeah, I love the Scandinavian way of life. 00:36:09.360 --> 00:36:24.719 There again, you see, uh one is supposedly an exhibitionist, and but these kind of withdrawn, quiet people and and these these um cities that are so beautiful and so civilized. 00:36:24.960 --> 00:36:25.519 And clean. 00:36:25.760 --> 00:36:26.239 And clean. 00:36:26.320 --> 00:36:27.280 Yes, that's it, isn't it? 00:36:27.440 --> 00:36:28.239 And everything works. 00:36:28.239 --> 00:36:32.000 And I got the train from Stockholm to Malmo, across the bridge. 00:36:32.000 --> 00:36:39.679 I mean, we did a load of tours of America USA in the last couple of years, and um well, you know, challenging. 00:36:39.679 --> 00:36:41.679 Great in its own way, exciting, you know. 00:36:41.679 --> 00:36:42.639 You go to New York. 00:36:42.639 --> 00:36:48.559 Part of the thing of like you play in New York, you feel I almost sometimes feel like doing these US tours. 00:36:48.559 --> 00:36:51.360 The reason for the doing is so you can put it up on Facebook. 00:36:51.360 --> 00:36:57.679 Here we are, you know, because so much about the USA when you're actually there, it's you know, okay. 00:36:57.679 --> 00:36:59.199 Play at the Baked Potato. 00:36:59.440 --> 00:37:02.000 Which incidentally is a is a bit of a dive, isn't it? 00:37:02.159 --> 00:37:02.800 That's what I'm saying. 00:37:02.800 --> 00:37:03.039 Yeah. 00:37:03.039 --> 00:37:18.000 But we put out, we played the game, we put out an album live at the Baked Potato, like it's it's something, you know, uh, and uh, you know, it's that's uh it's the cachet of America, still, it's less than it was, but it's still a thing. 00:37:18.320 --> 00:37:20.320 Okay, when you travel, window or aisle? 00:37:20.559 --> 00:37:21.760 Oh, bloody hell, mate. 00:37:21.760 --> 00:37:29.360 When I travel, now I'm not fussy, and and it's not really psychological fussiness, it's the f****g legs. 00:37:29.360 --> 00:37:30.079 Uh and 00:37:30.079 --> 00:37:31.679 Because you're quite a tall chap, aren't you? 00:37:32.320 --> 00:37:37.440 So I'm afraid to say if we go any distance, I pay for myself for a business class ticket. 00:37:37.440 --> 00:37:38.320 Right, if I can. 00:37:38.320 --> 00:37:39.679 So I work out, okay. 00:37:39.679 --> 00:37:42.960 So as an example, Santiago, Chile. 00:37:42.960 --> 00:37:45.360 We're going to Santiago in Chile, right? 00:37:45.360 --> 00:37:47.039 It's a 20-hour flight. 00:37:47.039 --> 00:37:49.920 So they'll stump up the money for the economy flight. 00:37:49.920 --> 00:37:53.440 Say whatever it is, uh, 1800 quid. 00:37:53.440 --> 00:38:06.400 So I scrabble around and I find a business class ticket that takes me through Houston, which means you have to immigrate and emigrate, fill out an Esther, etc., all this crap. 00:38:06.400 --> 00:38:12.960 But it means that for not much more than 1800 I can get a business class to Santiago.

00:38:12.960 --> 00:38:13.519 Right. 00:38:13.519 --> 00:38:15.679 Because I can't sit in the seats. 00:38:15.679 --> 00:38:16.960 I can't get in. 00:38:16.960 --> 00:38:18.800 And I certainly for 20 hours. 00:38:18.800 --> 00:38:19.679 I mean 00:38:19.679 --> 00:38:22.559 But that's not always going to be economical, though, is it, to do that? 00:38:22.719 --> 00:38:24.079 Well, I often lose money. 00:38:24.239 --> 00:38:24.400 Right. 00:38:24.400 --> 00:38:25.360 And you'd rather do that? 00:38:25.519 --> 00:38:26.800 I'd rather I can't help it. 00:38:26.800 --> 00:38:28.800 I I it's really a thing. 00:38:28.800 --> 00:38:31.199 I really I find it impossible. 00:38:31.199 --> 00:38:33.519 Anything over four or five hours. 00:38:33.519 --> 00:38:36.639 So um exactly, it's not economical, no. 00:38:36.639 --> 00:38:39.920 But this one I had 12 hours in Houston Airport. 00:38:39.920 --> 00:38:43.920 But you've got the business lounge, so no, it's not economical, but it's got to be aisle. 00:38:43.920 --> 00:38:45.760 If it's not, if it's not anything else, it's aisle. 00:38:45.760 --> 00:38:47.679 Because then I can stick my 00:38:47.679 --> 00:38:49.280 stick one of your legs out, at least! 00:38:49.280 --> 00:38:53.679 So you know, as I say, it's nothing to do with being fancy or or wanting better treatment. 00:38:53.679 --> 00:38:55.039 It's just about the space. 00:38:55.199 --> 00:38:55.760 Yeah, sure. 00:38:55.920 --> 00:38:59.440 You know, I I don't bother with any other sort of ponsy travel. 00:38:59.440 --> 00:39:00.239 I'm quite happy. 00:39:00.239 --> 00:39:01.760 It's just I can't get my legs in. 00:39:02.000 --> 00:39:03.679 I went to America with Martin Drew once. 00:39:04.159 --> 00:39:05.039 Oh my god. 00:39:05.440 --> 00:39:05.920 That's another story. 00:39:06.320 --> 00:39:07.679 Sitting next to Martin Drew. 00:39:07.679 --> 00:39:09.840 No, no, no, no, no, no. 00:39:10.480 --> 00:39:11.280 I didn't sit next to him. 00:39:11.679 --> 00:39:12.000 Oh, right. 00:39:12.000 --> 00:39:12.639 I bet you didn't. 00:39:12.800 --> 00:39:13.679 Okay, I've got two more questions. 00:39:13.920 --> 00:39:14.159 Okay, go on. 00:39:14.480 --> 00:39:15.679 Two more questions and then we're done. 00:39:15.679 --> 00:39:17.840 Um, what's the most used app on your phone? 00:39:18.159 --> 00:39:20.400 Most used app on my phone is let me. 00:39:20.400 --> 00:39:23.039 I will look at my phone and tell you what's the most used app. 00:39:23.039 --> 00:39:26.239 Uh the health app. 00:39:26.719 --> 00:39:27.679 The health app? 00:39:27.920 --> 00:39:28.960 No, I use that a lot. 00:39:28.960 --> 00:39:31.599 Google Maps, you know, your app I use quite a lot. 00:39:31.840 --> 00:39:32.800 That's the right answer! 00:39:32.800 --> 00:39:33.280 Yep. 00:39:33.280 --> 00:39:34.159 There you go. 00:39:34.159 --> 00:39:36.400 Your app is the most used app on my phone. 00:39:36.639 --> 00:39:37.119 Right, okay. 00:39:37.119 --> 00:39:39.360 One last question, and

you might need your guitar for this. 00:39:39.360 --> 00:39:41.280 Have you what's your favourite chord? 00:39:41.679 --> 00:39:43.199 Ah! I'll tell you what. 00:39:43.360 --> 00:39:45.440 You can play us some lovely chords that we'd like. 00:39:47.599 --> 00:39:51.360 I remembered the other day which I hadn't played for ages. 00:39:53.280 --> 00:39:55.760 Okay, and tell us the notes that tell us what's going on. 00:39:55.920 --> 00:40:04.239 Okay, well that's E, G sharp, uh B, F sharp, D sharp. 00:40:04.320 --> 00:40:04.480 Yeah. 00:40:04.880 --> 00:40:06.480 And it only works in that position, you see. 00:40:06.480 --> 00:40:08.159 You can't transpose it. 00:40:08.960 --> 00:40:10.159 And you're playing all the strings, right? 00:40:10.400 --> 00:40:10.800 All the strings. 00:40:11.039 --> 00:40:12.320 All of the strings, gorgeous, yeah. 00:40:12.880 --> 00:40:13.840 All the strings you are. 00:40:14.000 --> 00:40:14.239 Alright. 00:40:14.239 --> 00:40:17.519 Any other particular favourites that you have? 00:40:17.920 --> 00:40:21.440 Uh particular favourite oh god, that's you know, favourite chord. 00:40:21.440 --> 00:40:22.960 I always like this one. 00:40:22.960 --> 00:40:26.719 Which is the Jim Hall chord, which he does on everything. 00:40:26.719 --> 00:40:32.079 So it's a it's a sharp ninth, but with a particular inversion. 00:40:32.079 --> 00:40:37.280 So if that's A sharp ninth, you've got C sharp G C E. 00:40:37.920 --> 00:40:41.599 And that's beautiful because it's it's lovely and easy, it goes straight away across the fretboard. 00:40:41.599 --> 00:40:42.880 Very easy across. 00:40:42.880 --> 00:40:44.639 Yes, nice. 00:40:44.880 --> 00:40:47.519 You'll hear that all over all over Jim Hall. 00:40:47.519 --> 00:40:47.760 Yeah. 00:40:47.760 --> 00:40:50.159 And then of course, I love fourth chords. 00:40:50.159 --> 00:40:58.079 So we've got a pedal. 00:40:58.239 --> 00:40:58.880 Yeah. 00:41:06.719 --> 00:41:07.519 I love all that stuff. 00:41:07.679 --> 00:41:08.000 Nice, nice. 00:41:08.239 --> 00:41:08.800 You can do anything. 00:41:09.039 --> 00:41:11.119 We haven't really talked about Soft Machine very much, have we? 00:41:11.119 --> 00:41:13.519 Do you compose a lot for that? 00:41:14.159 --> 00:41:14.880 I do for that, yeah. 00:41:15.119 --> 00:41:17.039 Do you have inspirations for composing of the channel? 00:41:17.199 --> 00:41:17.920 Well, that's interesting. 00:41:17.920 --> 00:41:27.679 I was just talking to a friend of mine, script writer, and he said somebody he quoted some old bloke of a friend of his who said, throw it out and polish it up. 00:41:27.679 --> 00:41:31.119 In other words, the idea is spontaneous and then you polish it. 00:41:31.119 --> 00:41:35.920 And I find that I could start off a composition very easily with an idea. 00:41:35.920 --> 00:41:41.920 The difficult bit is putting it exactly, you know, and tying it all up so that it makes sense, you know. 00:41:41.920 --> 00:41:43.360 I mean, I can go just straight off. 00:41:43.360 --> 00:41:44.239 Oh, hang on, hang on. 00:41:44.559 --> 00:41:45.599 Reaching for his talent boosters. 00:41:45.599 --> 00:41:46.480 Wait, we're talent. 00:41:46.639 --> 00:41:50.079 No, I just thought I do a little loop because um hang on a sec. 00:41:50.079 --> 00:41:51.119 Hang on, hang on. 00:41:51.119 --> 00:42:10.480 So you might loop okay, so you've got a little melody idea there. 00:42:10.639 --> 00:42:11.199 That's a good idea. 00:42:11.440 --> 00:42:12.000 That's simple. 00:42:12.000 --> 00:42:12.400 Yeah. 00:42:12.400 --> 00:42:19.119 What always hangs me up is then you might get a few more, and then it's putting them together and then refining it. 00:42:19.119 --> 00:42:21.840 And that is where you go, oh, this is easy, this is great. 00:42:21.840 --> 00:42:22.800 Composing's wonderful. 00:42:22.800 --> 00:42:24.880 It's easy, it's easy, it's just like improvising. 00:42:24.880 --> 00:42:28.400 You do something, you start putting it together, and then the brainache starts. 00:42:28.400 --> 00:42:34.320 Although I've actually am a full-time member of the PRS, which means I've got a certain number of compositions. 00:42:34.320 --> 00:42:38.320 I think I've got like 250 compositions, but it's over 50 years. 00:42:38.320 --> 00:42:40.559 So I don't think of myself as a composer. 00:42:40.559 --> 00:42:42.239 I think of myself as an improviser. 00:42:42.320 --> 00:42:42.639 Yeah. 00:42:42.800 --> 00:42:44.079 That's what I'm interested in. 00:42:44.079 --> 00:42:44.880 Always have been. 00:42:44.880 --> 00:42:46.880 And in fact, I used to be a fanatic. 00:42:46.880 --> 00:42:52.320 I mean, certain people I played with who'd play the same solos every night, I'd be so furious. 00:42:52.320 --> 00:42:54.000 I'd be boiling inside. 00:42:54.000 --> 00:42:56.400 You're cheating! It's cheating. 00:42:56.559 --> 00:42:56.800 Yeah. 00:42:57.039 --> 00:43:00.159 People think you're a judgment, you're not, but I don't feel like that anymore. 00:43:00.159 --> 00:43:05.519 I mean, some people do play the same solos, and and that's the way they express themselves. 00:43:05.519 --> 00:43:06.639 But I don't like doing that. 00:43:06.960 --> 00:43:11.119 And in Soft Machine there's, for example, you obviously it's been together a long time, right? 00:43:11.280 --> 00:43:11.519 Yeah. 00:43:11.679 --> 00:43:13.760 Are you kind of do you feel it is still evolving? 00:43:13.920 --> 00:43:14.639 Oh god, yes. 00:43:14.639 --> 00:43:16.480 Your album is fantastic. 00:43:16.480 --> 00:43:17.360 I'm amazed. 00:43:17.360 --> 00:43:22.480 I pushed the last album, which had John Marshall on it, because I knew John was leaving us. 00:43:22.480 --> 00:43:26.239 We did a gig at Ronnie Scott's, and I looked at him, I thought, this is it. 00:43:26.239 --> 00:43:36.880 It was a way, there was a whole atmosphere about it, and the way he was playing, and it was like Ronnie Scott's was Ronnie's club is so important to John, he was like practically

the house drummer in the 70s. 00:43:36.880 --> 00:43:42.400 And he was playing and he got himself up, he was really ill, and he got himself up to play the gig, and it was a great gig. 00:43:42.400 --> 00:43:44.960 I thought, let's please record. 00:43:44.960 --> 00:43:49.519 So I actually pushed that, and we did an album called Other Doors, which came out a couple of years ago. 00:43:49.519 --> 00:43:52.400 And John plays lovely on it, but the power's gone. 00:43:52.400 --> 00:44:04.239 So he left us and uh, you know, left the world, and uh uh, so we've got Asaf and Fred Baker and me and Theo, and it it's absolutely fantastic. 00:44:04.239 --> 00:44:06.559 I mean, I love being in a democratic band. 00:44:06.559 --> 00:44:08.320 It's the only one I've ever been in. 00:44:08.320 --> 00:44:17.519 I've been in some pseudo-democratic bands and I've led bands, and I've been a side man in, I'm quite happy to be a sideman, say, with Grappelli. 00:44:17.519 --> 00:44:19.760 But this is proper equality. 00:44:19.760 --> 00:44:23.199 Everybody contributes, everybody plays their arse off on stage. 00:44:23.199 --> 00:44:25.760 There's no, oh right, you're solo, I'll keep quiet. 00:44:25.760 --> 00:44:28.159 You know, it's like real, everybody goes for it. 00:44:28.159 --> 00:44:31.199 Asaf is a fanatic, which I like. 00:44:31.199 --> 00:44:35.280 I mean, he's absolutely um, he never stops practicing. 00:44:35.280 --> 00:44:37.119 Fred's amazing, as you know. 00:44:37.119 --> 00:44:40.079 I mean, Fred's Fred, amazing musician. 00:44:40.079 --> 00:44:43.840 And Theo is really great musician and also really on it. 00:44:43.840 --> 00:44:48.400 So, on the kind of organizational side of things. 00:44:48.400 --> 00:44:50.960 So he's really taken over all that. 00:44:50.960 --> 00:44:55.280 He's on promo videos and publicity this and publicity that. 00:44:55.440 --> 00:44:57.199 I had a lovely podcast with with Theo actually. 00:44:57.519 --> 00:44:58.719 Yes, yes, I noticed you had. 00:44:58.719 --> 00:44:59.599 Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's right. 00:44:59.920 --> 00:45:00.559 Very interesting guy. 00:45:00.960 --> 00:45:02.559 I mean, he's it's marvellous. 00:45:02.559 --> 00:45:06.960 So it's a marvellous band, it's the best band I've ever been in, which is great when you're 70 bloody 8. 00:45:07.199 --> 00:45:09.119 That it's the best band you've ever been in. 00:45:09.199 --> 00:45:12.639 It's quite a rarity, I think, to have that kind of feeling in a band, isn't it? 00:45:12.639 --> 00:45:14.559 Whether you 00:45:14.559 --> 00:45:15.280 bloody well is 00:45:15.280 --> 00:45:15.440 amazing. 00:45:15.519 --> 00:45:18.400 And of course, the feeling in the Soft Machine in the 70s was awful. 00:45:18.400 --> 00:45:24.719 And when we reformed in 2004, it was it's always been good, but it's got in a way better better and better. 00:45:24.719 --> 00:45:28.800 And now, I mean, as a as as as musically, it's phenomenal. 00:45:28.800 --> 00:45:34.400 And I also am able to play in a way that I can only play in that context. 00:45:34.719 --> 00:45:36.480 And you are you only playing new music? 00:45:36.480 --> 00:45:36.960 Or are you playing? 00:45:37.360 --> 00:45:39.440 Yeah, we we we've always got loads of new music. 00:45:39.440 --> 00:45:49.599 We do we do play some stuff from the past for continuity, but my rule with stuff from the past, and it kind of still is, although it's it's a bit more difficult to hold on to, is I'd never listened to the original. 00:45:49.599 --> 00:45:57.599 I mean, we're we uh for instance when Hugh Hopper was with us in the Soft Machine, uh, what was called then the Soft Machine Legacy, for some unknown reason. 00:45:57.599 --> 00:46:02.559 Hugh was a bass player, and he brought in a tune by Ratledge called Chloe and the Pirates. 00:46:02.559 --> 00:46:04.239 Great, lovely tune. 00:46:04.239 --> 00:46:08.800 It was just that the top line and some ideas of the chords, very vague ideas. 00:46:08.800 --> 00:46:13.199 So we did it, and I didn't go and research the old thing. 00:46:13.199 --> 00:46:16.079 And in fact, I'm not sure that I've ever heard the original. 00:46:16.079 --> 00:46:19.280 I know I think that's a I think that's the jazz way. 00:46:19.280 --> 00:46:22.239 I mean, classical people, rock people, they say that's that's sacrilege. 00:46:22.239 --> 00:46:25.519 You're meant to, you're meant to recreate the original. 00:46:25.519 --> 00:46:28.000 Uh as an example, the Django Reinhardt scene. 00:46:28.000 --> 00:46:31.760 Now, when I played with Grappelli, he didn't want me to try and play like Reinhardt. 00:46:31.760 --> 00:46:35.519 I didn't try and play like Reinhardt, he wasn't interested. 00:46:35.519 --> 00:46:41.519 So that museum thing, I have no interest in whatsoever. 00:46:41.519 --> 00:46:51.840 I love the old Soft Machine, but you see, one of the advantages for me in the Soft Machine, I know I was in it and Alan Holdswoth in it, but basically it was not a guitar band, it was a keyboard band. 00:46:51.840 --> 00:46:54.480 So most of the famous compositions were on keyboards. 00:46:54.480 --> 00:46:58.559 So if I did was doing them on guitar, they're immediately going to sound different. 00:46:58.559 --> 00:47:00.639 They were gonna sound fresh and new. 00:47:00.639 --> 00:47:07.840 We did a cruise once, and there was a late prog band called UK, which was Eddie Jobson, Alan Holdsworth, Bill Bruford, John Wetton. 00:47:07.840 --> 00:47:16.320 And this guy was recreating the exact, exact, and the guitarist, fantastic guitarist called Alex Machacek. 00:47:16.320 --> 00:47:24.400 Miserable as sin, because he had to play, not a single inflection of his own, to play all Holes of the Third exactly the same. 00:47:24.719 --> 00:47:26.159 But I mean there is merit in that, isn't there? 00:47:26.320 --> 00:47:27.119 There's total merit in that. 00:47:27.119 --> 00:47:31.760 Because, you know, you know, obviously it's a classical musician kind of approach, isn't it, in some ways. 00:47:31.760 --> 00:47:34.079 It is, and Eddie Jobson was a classical musician. 00:47:34.079 --> 00:47:41.519 I mean, even when he was doing when Alan was doing the band in 77, he said, well, Eddie Jobson would work out his solo for the tour, and that would be his solo. 00:47:41.679 --> 00:47:41.920 Right. 00:47:41.920 --> 00:47:45.519 I think um you've probably got a magnet down your front now. 00:47:45.519 --> 00:47:46.960 It's probably fallen down there. 00:47:46.960 --> 00:47:48.000 There it is. 00:47:48.000 --> 00:47:56.960 I think I think on that on that bombshell, I think we'll say goodbye. 00:47:56.960 --> 00:47:59.360 I think we'll say thank you so much for your time. 00:47:59.679 --> 00:48:00.079 Thank you, Geoff. 00:48:00.079 --> 00:48:00.639 That was great. 00:48:00.639 --> 00:48:02.000 It's it's very enjoyable. 00:48:02.239 --> 00:48:06.000 It's been a a a lovely morning, and um let's see yeah. 00:48:06.000 --> 00:48:08.320 Okay, all right, we'll say goodbye. 00:48:08.320 --> 00:48:11.760 And uh it's a it's a wrap. 00:48:12.480 --> 00:48:15.119 Thank you for making it to the end of another podcast. 00:48:15.119 --> 00:48:18.639 Please subscribe if you want to hear more of them as they land. 00:48:18.639 --> 00:48:22.719 The Quartet Jazz Standards podcast is a UK Music Apps production. 00:48:22.719 --> 00:48:27.360 Quartet for iOS, taking your jazz play along to another level. 00:48:27.360 --> 00:48:32.639 Search for Quartet on the App Store or find out more at quartetapp.com.