Full Transcript for Adam Shaw - Pulling The Trigger (OCD Recovery) (Ep61)

the UK, Brighton is a beachside or seaside resort 39 00:01:55.980 --> 00:02:00.280 on the south coast of England and 26 miles. And 40 00:02:00.680 --> 00:02:04.750 on my Just Given page, I titled it as OCD 41 00:02:04.790 --> 00:02:06.150 Recovery is a Marathon. 42 00:02:06.290 --> 00:02:07.609 And I fully believe that OCD. 43 00:02:08.270 --> 00:02:10.889 recovery is not a sprint, you know, it's a marathon 44 00:02:10.930 --> 00:02:12.870 and a few miles in your legs are going to 45 00:02:12.969 --> 00:02:15.409 ache and then you've got to push through mentally to 46 00:02:15.449 --> 00:02:18.449 keep going and then maybe the 18th mile when you've 47 00:02:18.469 --> 00:02:20.569 been feeling good the last few miles you hit the 48 00:02:20.620 --> 00:02:21.620 wall as they call. 49 00:02:21.860 --> 00:02:24.539 It in marathon running or any running and. 50 00:02:24.479 --> 00:02:26.840 You feel like you can't go on but you push 51 00:02:26.879 --> 00:02:29.479 through that wall because you realize it's just in your mind, 52 00:02:29.520 --> 00:02:32.400 your body can still keep going and it's very much 53 00:02:32.439 --> 00:02:33.259 like OCD. 54 00:02:33.319 --> 00:02:35.319 So I told you that. 55 00:02:35.500 --> 00:02:38.219 And if you would like to donate money to OSTUK 56 00:02:38.400 --> 00:02:41.539 and support me doing this marathon, and please know I 57 00:02:41.599 --> 00:02:46.379 don't love running particularly. I'm a basketball player. Running long 58 00:02:46.439 --> 00:02:51.189 distance isn't normal for me. So every time I do it, 59 00:02:51.479 --> 00:02:55.759 it's definitely pushing my own psyche as well. So yeah, 60 00:02:55.810 --> 00:02:57.099 I'd be grateful if you could support me. 61 00:02:57.169 --> 00:02:57.969 If not, no worries. 62 00:02:58.110 --> 00:03:06.210 But the link is justgiving.com. backslash the OCD stories. That's justgiving.com backslash. 63 00:03:05.770 --> 00:03:06.569 The OCD stories. 64 00:03:07.250 --> 00:03:08.990 So I will keep you up to date on my 65 00:03:09.030 --> 00:03:11.509 training as well. It's only about six weeks away now. 66 00:03:11.550 --> 00:03:14.770 I have been training for the last few months. So 67 00:03:14.870 --> 00:03:17.610 without further ado, here is Adam Shaw. 68 00:03:17.650 --> 00:03:19.900 He gives some really good tips and great advice. 69 00:03:19.909 --> 00:03:22.419 He goes into his story and he gives some really 70 00:03:22.439 --> 00:03:24.740 good advice at the end about living an amazing life. 71 00:03:25.430 --> 00:03:27.969 So enjoy, and I'll speak to you soon. So I 72 00:03:28.030 --> 00:03:28.990 have Adam Shaw. 73 00:03:29.229 --> 00:03:34.240 Adam, along with Lauren Callaghan, co-wrote the book Pulling the Trigger, OCD, Anxiety, 74 00:03:34.310 --> 00:03:38.879 Panic Attacks, and Related Depression, a Definitive Survival and Recovery Approach. 75 00:03:39.360 --> 00:03:43.379 Adam also co-founded the mental health charity The Shaw Mind Foundation. 76 00:03:43.560 --> 00:03:44.520 Welcome to the show, Adam. 77 00:03:45.180 --> 00:03:45.800 Thank you, Stuart. 78 00:03:46.099 --> 00:03:47.539 It's good to have you on. 79 00:03:48.139 --> 00:03:51.150 So I always start the podcast by hearing other people's stories. 80 00:03:51.169 --> 00:03:53.370 It would be good to hear your OCD story. Hmm. 81 00:03:54.189 --> 00:03:56.750 Okay, it's a long one. It started when I was 82 00:03:56.830 --> 00:04:00.620 five years old. I've had it all my life. I 83 00:04:00.629 --> 00:04:03.240 didn't know it was OCD at the time. I knew 84 00:04:03.259 --> 00:04:06.139 I wasn't quite right even back at the age of five, 85 00:04:06.199 --> 00:04:13.120 but it started with, I suppose, being apart from my 86 00:04:13.159 --> 00:04:15.620 parents at an early age when they dropped me off 87 00:04:15.659 --> 00:04:19.079 at school and those sorts of things. I feel very uncomfortable. 88 00:04:19.540 --> 00:04:23.089 What I now know is anxiety and I felt something 89 00:04:23.110 --> 00:04:25.089 would happen to them on the way back from dropping 90 00:04:25.110 --> 00:04:27.629 me off at school and even picking me up. And 91 00:04:27.740 --> 00:04:29.560 so in order to make myself feel better and in 92 00:04:30.040 --> 00:04:35.220 order to alleviate the anxiety, I would invent rituals, rituals 93 00:04:35.240 --> 00:04:38.000 that perhaps from the outside world would make no sense, 94 00:04:38.040 --> 00:04:40.160 but they made me feel a little bit better. And 95 00:04:40.199 --> 00:04:44.420 that was kind of the slippery slope onto OCD, which 96 00:04:45.439 --> 00:04:48.420 grew into something far more sinister as we got older, 97 00:04:48.819 --> 00:04:52.149 as I got older. as we know because OCD tends 98 00:04:52.189 --> 00:04:55.660 to attach itself to things that we're vulnerable about very 99 00:04:55.680 --> 00:04:59.360 vulnerable about and as I say as I went into 100 00:04:59.379 --> 00:05:01.920 my teenage years and then into my adulthood it was 101 00:05:01.959 --> 00:05:06.899 very much like harm OCD in the fact that I 102 00:05:06.920 --> 00:05:09.939 was concerned I was going to hurt vulnerable people my 103 00:05:09.990 --> 00:05:12.990 wife possibly my children my grandparents those closest to me 104 00:05:13.589 --> 00:05:16.949 even disabled people really horrible intrusive thoughts that I felt 105 00:05:16.990 --> 00:05:20.269 I was a very awful person to have it but Also, 106 00:05:20.310 --> 00:05:23.470 I felt I was a danger to society, so I 107 00:05:23.550 --> 00:05:27.670 used to have to have compulsions of rituals to alleviate 108 00:05:27.689 --> 00:05:31.250 myself of those worries, and also to protect other people. 109 00:05:31.290 --> 00:05:36.500 So I carried handcuffs around, avoided knives, avoiding being near 110 00:05:36.519 --> 00:05:39.079 old people, disabled people, in case I harmed them, those 111 00:05:39.100 --> 00:05:42.360 sorts of things. Of course, the more rituals that I

did, 112 00:05:44.069 --> 00:05:47.310 the more power it actually gave the illness because it 113 00:05:47.350 --> 00:05:50.649 was me taking the illness more seriously. I was giving 114 00:05:50.689 --> 00:05:55.279 it more power than it deserved by taking part and 115 00:05:55.600 --> 00:05:58.259 complying with these rituals and compulsions. But of course, I 116 00:05:58.300 --> 00:06:00.439 didn't know that was the case. And I was so 117 00:06:00.519 --> 00:06:03.990 afraid of the thoughts that, as we know with OCD sufferers, 118 00:06:04.050 --> 00:06:08.029 I kept it to myself for 15, 20 years. and 119 00:06:08.110 --> 00:06:10.930 that was just a circle of fear, a circle of fear. 120 00:06:12.569 --> 00:06:17.329 And yeah, it made me make some, it directed me 121 00:06:17.350 --> 00:06:19.730 in my life with regards to the decisions I made. 122 00:06:19.769 --> 00:06:21.769 All my decisions were based on my mental health and 123 00:06:22.290 --> 00:06:24.740 avoiding certain triggers and everything like that. So yeah, from 124 00:06:24.750 --> 00:06:27.519 the age of five it started. I never knew any better, 125 00:06:27.579 --> 00:06:29.680 so one could argue that I was born with this 126 00:06:30.500 --> 00:06:32.420 rather than it kind of coming on at some stage 127 00:06:32.459 --> 00:06:34.740 in later life that was brought on by stress. It 128 00:06:34.759 --> 00:06:38.139 was a natural thing that was I was born with. 129 00:06:39.920 --> 00:06:42.779 So that's my kind of journey in brief with OCD. 130 00:06:42.800 --> 00:06:45.120 It's been a part of my life, all my life. 131 00:06:45.660 --> 00:06:48.879 So what led you to get treatment or to kind 132 00:06:48.920 --> 00:06:51.319 of acknowledge it was a condition or find out it 133 00:06:51.360 --> 00:06:51.959 was a condition? 134 00:06:52.680 --> 00:06:55.790 I'd got to the point of no return, Stuart, in 135 00:06:55.810 --> 00:06:59.829 the fact that whilst later on in my life, in 136 00:06:59.850 --> 00:07:02.449 my late 20s, going to my 30s, it was actually 137 00:07:02.490 --> 00:07:05.790 diagnosed as OCD. And of course, when I first heard 138 00:07:05.810 --> 00:07:08.439 the word OCD, they'd been quite a bit in the 139 00:07:08.459 --> 00:07:11.240 media about OCD, but it was lining up plans. And, 140 00:07:11.300 --> 00:07:21.240 you know, like unfortunately we see now, but it was 141 00:07:21.279 --> 00:07:23.560 a relief when I found out that I had OCD, 142 00:07:23.660 --> 00:07:26.120 that I wasn't this psychopath that I was going to 143 00:07:26.139 --> 00:07:30.019 murder people and vulnerable people. So there was a name 144 00:07:30.060 --> 00:07:34.050 for what I had. Of course, that alleviated some of 145 00:07:34.089 --> 00:07:38.910 the initial... panic some of the initial stress that I 146 00:07:38.930 --> 00:07:43.839 had with this mental health problem. But I didn't embark 147 00:07:43.899 --> 00:07:47.500 on the correct therapy initially. Because when I started to 148 00:07:47.519 --> 00:07:49.209 understand that I had an illness and I wasn't a 149 00:07:49.230 --> 00:07:52.829 psychopathic killer, that almost alleviated some of my anxiety and stress. Anyway, 150 00:07:52.910 --> 00:07:55.029 I thought I was better, but of course I wasn't. 151 00:07:56.810 --> 00:07:59.889 But slowly and surely, these bad habits, these rituals came 152 00:07:59.930 --> 00:08:03.730 back into my life. And I've been fairly successful in business. 153 00:08:04.790 --> 00:08:07.310 And the reason I've been successful, I would say, is 154 00:08:07.449 --> 00:08:10.899 that I've, you know... Without even trying, I managed to 155 00:08:10.959 --> 00:08:14.220 harness my OCD into my business. So my business and 156 00:08:14.399 --> 00:08:18.939 my career was a massive distraction from my mental health problems. Avoidance. 157 00:08:19.360 --> 00:08:20.920 So if I had my mental health problems coming on, 158 00:08:20.939 --> 00:08:23.170 I'd throw myself into my work and into my business 159 00:08:23.550 --> 00:08:26.269 and so on. But it really, the bad habits crept 160 00:08:26.290 --> 00:08:28.670 more in. The OCD got more and more so after 161 00:08:28.689 --> 00:08:31.730 I'd been diagnosed. And a few years later, the intrusive 162 00:08:31.769 --> 00:08:34.350 thoughts were so bad, there was nowhere to go. And 163 00:08:34.429 --> 00:08:36.659 that's where I got to the point where I was 164 00:08:36.700 --> 00:08:40.549 very poorly, very, very poorly. one could argue I had 165 00:08:40.600 --> 00:08:44.000 everything to live for, you know, financial security, I had 166 00:08:44.039 --> 00:08:48.320 success in my business life, I had a family, but 167 00:08:48.360 --> 00:08:53.519 I didn't have my, I didn't have my sanity. And 168 00:08:53.570 --> 00:08:55.250 I felt there was no way back, there was nothing 169 00:08:55.269 --> 00:08:58.370 that could help me, no pill, no therapy, and I'd 170 00:08:58.429 --> 00:09:02.769 made plans to end it all, and I got as 171 00:09:02.830 --> 00:09:08.549 far as standing on the bridge. And that was the 172 00:09:08.649 --> 00:09:13.529 lowest point, but the hardest point. Of course, from the 173 00:09:13.590 --> 00:09:16.830 outside world, people think, people assume that those who are 174 00:09:16.850 --> 00:09:19.509 going to commit suicide are fairly weak, but not, I 175 00:09:19.549 --> 00:09:21.450 would say, the people who have got to the point 176 00:09:21.490 --> 00:09:23.250 where they have, or they feel like they're going to 177 00:09:23.269 --> 00:09:25.860 commit suicide, they're the strongest people you'll ever meet, because 178 00:09:25.879 --> 00:09:29.620 they've endured years and years of what can only be 179 00:09:29.659 --> 00:09:34.340 described as mental torture, yet they've survived every day. They're 180 00:09:34.360 --> 00:09:38.330 the strongest people you'll ever meet, yet Of course, I 181 00:09:38.389 --> 00:09:39.970 felt I was weak, stood on that

bridge, but at 182 00:09:40.009 --> 00:09:43.350 the same time, I justified it to myself. As opposed 183 00:09:43.389 --> 00:09:46.059 to somebody having, I don't know, like a terminal illness 184 00:09:46.100 --> 00:09:50.159 like cancer. So, family and friends would be devastated if 185 00:09:50.200 --> 00:09:52.279 that person died of cancer, but also there'd be a 186 00:09:52.340 --> 00:09:54.850 sense of relief that they're out of that pain. And 187 00:09:54.929 --> 00:09:57.669 I felt that my family, or hoped my family and 188 00:09:57.690 --> 00:10:00.539 my friends would see the same for me. that I 189 00:10:00.940 --> 00:10:03.159 would be relieved from this pain that I was in 190 00:10:03.200 --> 00:10:05.340 and I would be in a better place. And that's 191 00:10:05.360 --> 00:10:11.169 how I justified it to myself. So yeah, a lot 192 00:10:11.190 --> 00:10:15.309 of people with mental health problems, like OCD, it's a 193 00:10:15.330 --> 00:10:18.370 very debilitating mental health problem that people don't always get 194 00:10:18.429 --> 00:10:21.149 as to the point where I get to where it's suicide. 195 00:10:21.169 --> 00:10:23.470 I don't want to worry people like that, but I'd 196 00:10:23.490 --> 00:10:26.049 been battling it all my life and I'd just had enough. 197 00:10:27.779 --> 00:10:29.580 But it was on that moment, really, I suppose, when 198 00:10:29.600 --> 00:10:32.980 I stood on the bridge, and it's a very sad situation, actually, 199 00:10:33.000 --> 00:10:36.159 because I stood on the bridge and for the first 200 00:10:36.460 --> 00:10:38.980 time in my life, I had a sense of relaxation 201 00:10:39.000 --> 00:10:41.500 that I'd never had before. And like I said, it 202 00:10:41.519 --> 00:10:45.350 was a sad situation because the only reason reason i 203 00:10:45.399 --> 00:10:47.990 had that sense of relaxation is because i felt i 204 00:10:48.009 --> 00:10:50.649 took back control and that it couldn't get me anymore 205 00:10:50.669 --> 00:10:52.889 because i was going to end it all yeah so 206 00:10:53.029 --> 00:10:54.809 it was a sense of you can't get me now 207 00:10:54.850 --> 00:10:58.139 guys or illness or whatever it was calling the time 208 00:10:58.379 --> 00:11:00.940 i'm gonna end it and i've never had that sense 209 00:11:00.960 --> 00:11:03.320 of relaxation before because even on my good days growing 210 00:11:03.360 --> 00:11:05.360 up with mental health problems even on the days that 211 00:11:05.379 --> 00:11:07.870 weren't so bad you'd still go to bed that evening 212 00:11:07.879 --> 00:11:14.149 with a sense of despair on your shoulder anxiety on 213 00:11:14.190 --> 00:11:15.929 your shoulder like you've carried a weight of the world 214 00:11:15.980 --> 00:11:18.419 because you were Frightened that your illness would come on 215 00:11:18.440 --> 00:11:20.179 that day. It was always in the back of mind 216 00:11:21.200 --> 00:11:23.399 that it could come up But for the first time 217 00:11:23.440 --> 00:11:24.879 in my life on that bridge, it was like I'm 218 00:11:24.899 --> 00:11:27.340 in control I'm gonna end it all you know what 219 00:11:27.360 --> 00:11:29.779 you can't get me And I suppose it was that 220 00:11:29.840 --> 00:11:31.399 moment that made me think out of you know, if 221 00:11:31.799 --> 00:11:34.879 you can feel like this now if you can feel 222 00:11:34.919 --> 00:11:39.090 the sense of relaxation you've never felt before and why 223 00:11:39.129 --> 00:11:40.809 can you not do it in the real world why 224 00:11:40.970 --> 00:11:43.210 why surely there must be a way because you're still 225 00:11:43.230 --> 00:11:44.730 on top of the bridge you're about to know you 226 00:11:44.750 --> 00:11:46.850 have this sense of relaxation that your mental health problems 227 00:11:46.889 --> 00:11:49.570 can't get you involved well surely there's a way in 228 00:11:49.610 --> 00:11:54.730 the real world and so i stepped down from the 229 00:11:54.769 --> 00:11:58.350 bridge and you know i wasn't um i was angry 230 00:11:58.389 --> 00:12:00.909 myself because i thought i'd cowered out at first i 231 00:12:00.950 --> 00:12:02.820 was upset because i thought you've not got ruin it 232 00:12:02.840 --> 00:12:05.580 you found an excuse not to do it yeah But 233 00:12:05.620 --> 00:12:08.600 then I'd realize, you know, that actually is this some hope? 234 00:12:09.080 --> 00:12:11.500 Is this some hope? And then, of course, from being 235 00:12:11.539 --> 00:12:13.320 off on the bridge for about five or ten minutes, 236 00:12:13.340 --> 00:12:14.830 then you start to think of your family, you start 237 00:12:14.850 --> 00:12:17.049 to think of your children, and that makes you a 238 00:12:17.090 --> 00:12:19.289 little bit more, even more, that, yeah, I'm not going 239 00:12:19.309 --> 00:12:22.090 to end it. I'm going to try again. And that 240 00:12:22.330 --> 00:12:26.809 kind of was the changing, you know, it sounds like 241 00:12:26.889 --> 00:12:29.370 a movie, I suppose, but it is exactly how it happened, 242 00:12:29.389 --> 00:12:31.029 and that was the changing part of my life. The 243 00:12:31.100 --> 00:12:32.740 next day I was determined I was going to do 244 00:12:32.779 --> 00:12:35.970 something about it. I'd run away from mental health problems 245 00:12:36.009 --> 00:12:38.509 all my life. Of course, I thought I'd had a 246 00:12:38.549 --> 00:12:40.379 fight with them. I'd put up a fist and I'd 247 00:12:40.429 --> 00:12:42.500 fight my mental health problems. But all I was doing, 248 00:12:42.519 --> 00:12:44.720 I was running away because I was battling my mental 249 00:12:44.740 --> 00:12:47.240 health problems. And that's just giving the mental illness more 250 00:12:47.259 --> 00:12:51.799 power than it deserves. So the next day, I picked 251 00:12:51.840 --> 00:12:55.200 up the phone to OCD UK, which is a charity, 252 00:12:55.580 --> 00:12:59.659 which you're aware of. And I poured my heart out

253 00:12:59.700 --> 00:13:01.740 to them. For the first time, really, I poured my 254 00:13:01.759 --> 00:13:06.360 heart out to someone and they said, look, Adam, believe 255 00:13:06.399 --> 00:13:08.990 it or not, OCD and mental illnesses like this, they're 256 00:13:09.029 --> 00:13:12.429 actually a normal human condition. The problem is we've never 257 00:13:12.570 --> 00:13:14.610 really been educated on them. So when they come on, 258 00:13:14.649 --> 00:13:16.009 we don't know how to address them. We don't know 259 00:13:16.029 --> 00:13:18.269 where they go. And even the NHS doesn't have the 260 00:13:18.309 --> 00:13:20.879 resource to deal with it. It's a very terrible situation, 261 00:13:20.909 --> 00:13:22.960 but it is what it is. However, Adam, we have 262 00:13:23.000 --> 00:13:25.860 contacts in the private world, private psychologists who can help 263 00:13:25.879 --> 00:13:28.279 you and specialize in this. Do you have the resource 264 00:13:28.299 --> 00:13:30.299 to do it? And I was, well, fortunately I do. 265 00:13:31.500 --> 00:13:35.759 And they put me in contact with two people. There 266 00:13:35.779 --> 00:13:37.360 was no way I could leave the house. I was just, 267 00:13:37.539 --> 00:13:39.080 you know, at that time, I didn't want to go 268 00:13:39.120 --> 00:13:40.840 back out because I was so scared I was housebound. 269 00:13:40.919 --> 00:13:45.039 And I emailed both of the doctors and said they 270 00:13:45.059 --> 00:13:46.580 need to come up and see me. I can't travel 271 00:13:46.620 --> 00:13:48.330 to London. And it's quite a distance because I was 272 00:13:48.350 --> 00:13:51.850 in Sheffield at the time. One of them couldn't. But 273 00:13:51.870 --> 00:13:53.409 the other said she was willing to come. And that's 274 00:13:53.429 --> 00:13:56.110 when I met Dr. Lauren Callaghan. And she came into 275 00:13:56.149 --> 00:13:56.529 my life. 276 00:13:57.409 --> 00:13:57.659 And.... 277 00:13:59.440 --> 00:14:02.690 The lady was a genius, and she changed my world around. 278 00:14:02.710 --> 00:14:05.149 That's awesome. 279 00:14:05.470 --> 00:14:08.470 Yeah, that's really good to hear. And Lauren's a therapist 280 00:14:08.490 --> 00:14:09.649 for one of my friends as well. 281 00:14:10.809 --> 00:14:11.090 Really? 282 00:14:11.169 --> 00:14:11.450 Okay. 283 00:14:12.129 --> 00:14:15.340 I don't say any names, but he praises her as well. 284 00:14:15.820 --> 00:14:17.059 Yeah, she's amazing. Yeah. 285 00:14:17.100 --> 00:14:18.419 So you co-wrote the book with her. 286 00:14:20.559 --> 00:14:23.240 I guess it'd be good to hear about the pull-in-the-trigger 287 00:14:23.299 --> 00:14:26.059 approach to OCD recovery, if you could explain that. 288 00:14:26.830 --> 00:14:28.590 Yeah, okay. Well, this is, as I say, this is 289 00:14:28.610 --> 00:14:30.850 where Lauren kind of came into my life and she 290 00:14:30.889 --> 00:14:35.590 really changed everything on how I looked and interpreted mental 291 00:14:35.610 --> 00:14:38.889 health problems. And, you know, I was aware that she 292 00:14:38.909 --> 00:14:41.419 was some form of, she was well known because she'd 293 00:14:41.440 --> 00:14:44.240 done TV work and she was very clever. But when 294 00:14:44.279 --> 00:14:46.879 I first met her, she was this young lady. and 295 00:14:47.019 --> 00:14:49.039 when i was like what is she gonna know you 296 00:14:49.080 --> 00:14:51.490 know because as a sufferer and somebody has mental health 297 00:14:51.500 --> 00:14:53.509 problems it's a very negative illness so you always wanted 298 00:14:53.529 --> 00:14:55.590 to believe the worst so when i first met i 299 00:14:55.610 --> 00:14:57.029 was like this lady's not going to get me better 300 00:14:57.070 --> 00:15:02.149 it's just it's pointless um but she um we sat 301 00:15:02.200 --> 00:15:05.539 down and um we talked i told her everything i 302 00:15:05.580 --> 00:15:08.600 pulled my heart out i always remember her saying to 303 00:15:08.620 --> 00:15:12.169 me adam you know the has everything you've done in 304 00:15:12.210 --> 00:15:15.029 your life to fight these mental health problems and to 305 00:15:15.190 --> 00:15:17.669 deal with your OCD, has it ever worked? Has it 306 00:15:17.830 --> 00:15:20.970 ever worked? Have you ever had any peace? And I 307 00:15:20.990 --> 00:15:23.080 was like, well, of course not. You know, this is, 308 00:15:23.330 --> 00:15:24.789 I am, this is where I am. You know, I've 309 00:15:24.809 --> 00:15:28.450 had moments of relief, but that's really, it's been brought 310 00:15:28.529 --> 00:15:31.710 about by reassurance, which as we know, reassurance is a 311 00:15:31.750 --> 00:15:33.830 nasty drug. It's a disloyal friend when it comes to 312 00:15:33.870 --> 00:15:38.759 anxiety and OCD. Um, she says, well, You need to 313 00:15:38.799 --> 00:15:41.100 take a punt on me, Adam, then, because what have 314 00:15:41.120 --> 00:15:43.600 you got to lose? If we do something slightly different, 315 00:15:44.480 --> 00:15:46.820 you know, you're not going to feel any worse than 316 00:15:46.840 --> 00:15:48.779 what you do now. And everything you've done in your 317 00:15:48.799 --> 00:15:51.259 last 30 or so years has never worked. So are 318 00:15:51.279 --> 00:15:52.409 you going to take a punt on me? Do you 319 00:15:52.450 --> 00:15:55.570 have me? Do I have your attention? I was like, well, yeah, yeah. 320 00:15:56.250 --> 00:15:58.110 She said, well, I want you to try something different. 321 00:15:58.330 --> 00:16:01.970 She says, for all your life, you've tried fighting these 322 00:16:02.009 --> 00:16:05.379 mental health problems. You've tried running away from them. You've 323 00:16:05.399 --> 00:16:08.100 tried analyzing them. You've tried going over them to make 324 00:16:08.159 --> 00:16:12.440 sense of them, to rationalize with them. And she says, 325 00:16:13.399 --> 00:16:17.159 with anxiety and OCD, that's fuel. It might give you 326

00:16:17.200 --> 00:16:19.870 temporary relief, but actually it's fuel. It might feel like 327 00:16:19.950 --> 00:16:23.409 it's a friend, but it becomes disloyal. You're just fueling 328 00:16:23.429 --> 00:16:25.549 the mental health problems even worse. It's becoming a drug. 329 00:16:25.870 --> 00:16:29.029 You're not fighting it because fight, actually anxiety and OCD 330 00:16:29.070 --> 00:16:32.250 loves fight. So if you're going to deal with OCD 331 00:16:32.269 --> 00:16:33.809 and anxiety, say, I'm going to fight this illness, I'm 332 00:16:33.830 --> 00:16:37.190 going to beat this illness, it might sound great, and 333 00:16:37.809 --> 00:16:41.029 you're going to win this battle, but you cannot go 334 00:16:41.240 --> 00:16:43.039 any further wrong than putting it into a context of 335 00:16:43.080 --> 00:16:46.779 a battle, because anxiety loves battle. Instead, you've got to 336 00:16:46.799 --> 00:16:50.159 have a different mindset, and instead of fighting your mental 337 00:16:50.179 --> 00:16:53.620 health problems, you've got to have courage. You've got to 338 00:16:53.639 --> 00:16:54.720 have the courage to face them. 339 00:16:55.940 --> 00:16:56.100 So. 340 00:16:57.110 --> 00:16:58.750 At first I was like, hang on a minute, there's 341 00:16:58.809 --> 00:17:00.350 no way I'm going to sit down and put my 342 00:17:00.409 --> 00:17:03.590 arms down and accept anything about my mental health problems. 343 00:17:03.610 --> 00:17:04.950 I've been fighting them all my life and I'm not 344 00:17:04.970 --> 00:17:06.849 going to give it now. And she said, this isn't 345 00:17:06.890 --> 00:17:09.029 about giving it, Adam. This is about having the courage 346 00:17:09.069 --> 00:17:12.079 to face them. And by having the courage to face them, 347 00:17:13.140 --> 00:17:18.700 it will change your outlook on how we deal with this. 348 00:17:20.140 --> 00:17:23.900 So she said, have you ever tried just accepting your 349 00:17:23.920 --> 00:17:27.619 mind for what it is? letting it in and really 350 00:17:27.660 --> 00:17:31.920 going towards it and i was like what accepting that 351 00:17:31.980 --> 00:17:36.119 i have these problems she said well not necessarily accepting 352 00:17:36.140 --> 00:17:38.380 you having problems but accepting your thoughts for what they 353 00:17:38.460 --> 00:17:41.819 are she says because everybody has thoughts adam everybody has 354 00:17:41.880 --> 00:17:44.460 thoughts we all have the same amount of thoughts whether 355 00:17:44.500 --> 00:17:46.299 you have a mental health problem or not we all 356 00:17:46.339 --> 00:17:49.619 have the same kind of intrusive thoughts but people tend 357 00:17:49.640 --> 00:17:52.029 not to have ocd they dismiss them immediately people with 358 00:17:52.049 --> 00:17:55.569 ocd don't she said let me put it this way 359 00:17:56.119 --> 00:18:00.289 Have you ever... She said, thoughts, good or bad, they 360 00:18:00.329 --> 00:18:02.269 all come from the same place in the night. They 361 00:18:02.309 --> 00:18:04.509 all come from the same place. She said, have you 362 00:18:04.690 --> 00:18:08.410 ever listened to a song that you really, really like? 363 00:18:09.279 --> 00:18:11.720 And you've played that song over and over and over 364 00:18:11.759 --> 00:18:14.099 again because it gives you an uplifting sensation and you 365 00:18:14.119 --> 00:18:15.740 love the song, you play it in your car. And 366 00:18:15.779 --> 00:18:17.240 she said that after a couple of weeks, does the 367 00:18:17.279 --> 00:18:20.450 song start to lose its uplifting... I said, yeah, you 368 00:18:20.470 --> 00:18:22.049 do that all the time. You play a song too 369 00:18:22.089 --> 00:18:24.819 much and you don't, you know, it loses its sense. 370 00:18:25.380 --> 00:18:27.440 And she said, and that's the exact thing with thoughts, 371 00:18:27.480 --> 00:18:30.200 good or bad. She said, the reason that the song 372 00:18:30.380 --> 00:18:34.740 that you brought into your life has kind of lost 373 00:18:34.839 --> 00:18:39.269 its oomph is because you've allowed it in. You've naturally 374 00:18:39.309 --> 00:18:43.170 accepted it. Because it's a nice sensation, your body and 375 00:18:43.230 --> 00:18:45.349 your mind has naturally let it in and you've enjoyed it. 376 00:18:46.789 --> 00:18:49.470 And she said, bad thoughts are no different. Apart from 377 00:18:49.490 --> 00:18:52.190 they're uncomfortable, they do make us feel a little bit down. 378 00:18:52.589 --> 00:18:55.029 But if you allow them in, if you accept them 379 00:18:55.089 --> 00:18:58.769 for what they are, she said, just like that good song, 380 00:18:59.250 --> 00:19:02.779 those thoughts will desensitize and all get them. Because bad 381 00:19:02.799 --> 00:19:05.539 thoughts come from the same place as good thoughts. But 382 00:19:05.559 --> 00:19:08.220 the difference why we don't get rid of bad thoughts 383 00:19:08.299 --> 00:19:10.880 and we run scared is because we don't want to 384 00:19:10.920 --> 00:19:13.559 allow them in. They make us feel uncomfortable. But she says, 385 00:19:13.599 --> 00:19:15.460 if you have the courage to face them and allow 386 00:19:15.500 --> 00:19:18.269 them in, She said, you start to change the game 387 00:19:18.890 --> 00:19:21.349 on dealing with your mental health problems. You're allowing them in. 388 00:19:21.890 --> 00:19:23.670 Even though they make you feel uncomfortable, even though they 389 00:19:23.690 --> 00:19:25.369 make you feel sad, you're allowing them in, just like 390 00:19:25.390 --> 00:19:28.509 the good moments, just like the good sensations. And she said, 391 00:19:28.529 --> 00:19:31.609 that's what acceptance is all about. That's what it's about. 392 00:19:32.150 --> 00:19:34.869 So that kind of blew my mind a little bit. 393 00:19:35.609 --> 00:19:37.430 And I started to kind of do tests with that 394 00:19:37.609 --> 00:19:42.109 and see how that went. But of course, the next 395

00:19:42.150 --> 00:19:46.059 stage was to be even more proactive. So it was 396 00:19:46.099 --> 00:19:49.470 then about embracing and facing and having the courage to 397 00:19:49.509 --> 00:19:52.549 face my mental health problems. So it's all well and 398 00:19:52.569 --> 00:19:56.150 good accepting them and accepting these thoughts. But what Lauren 399 00:19:56.170 --> 00:19:58.750 also taught me was to go towards them, to see 400 00:19:58.789 --> 00:20:02.259 them for what they were. And when I started to 401 00:20:02.299 --> 00:20:05.279 do this, I realized that these things that I've run 402 00:20:05.319 --> 00:20:09.839 away from all my life, these fears, these triggers, Actually, 403 00:20:09.859 --> 00:20:11.440 when I accepted them and I said, you know what, 404 00:20:11.460 --> 00:20:14.809 I'm going to go towards you instead, it took a 405 00:20:14.829 --> 00:20:16.950 lot of courage. It was very uncomfortable at first, but 406 00:20:17.009 --> 00:20:20.210 I realized that they had no substance behind them. They 407 00:20:20.250 --> 00:20:23.130 were a lie. And a perfect example is, you know, 408 00:20:23.150 --> 00:20:25.650 I thought I was going to strangle people. Lauren made 409 00:20:25.690 --> 00:20:28.119 me put my hands around her neck. So here's this 410 00:20:28.390 --> 00:20:31.799 lady who's trying to help me. I'm six foot two, 411 00:20:31.819 --> 00:20:36.279 six foot three. Lauren's five, five, five, six. I'm not very, 412 00:20:36.480 --> 00:20:39.230 very big and You know, I could overpower her, of course, 413 00:20:39.299 --> 00:20:40.660 and she made me put her hands around her neck. 414 00:20:40.680 --> 00:20:42.420 So something I'd been running away from all my life 415 00:20:42.460 --> 00:20:43.670 and I'd never done, and she made me do it. 416 00:20:46.619 --> 00:20:48.859 I was so scared, but she had the courage to 417 00:20:48.900 --> 00:20:51.400 do it. And when I did it, it was the 418 00:20:51.579 --> 00:20:55.779 first time in my life that, despite being really scared 419 00:20:55.799 --> 00:20:58.279 and still not wanting to do it, I realized, actually, 420 00:20:59.180 --> 00:21:02.619 has OCD been tricking me all along? Because I feel 421 00:21:02.740 --> 00:21:08.140 no urge whatsoever to strike or kill this lady. And 422 00:21:08.339 --> 00:21:12.420 just by having the courage to embrace those triggers, those 423 00:21:12.480 --> 00:21:15.259 fears that go towards them, as opposed to running away 424 00:21:15.579 --> 00:21:17.680 and trying to find ways to distract it and giving 425 00:21:17.720 --> 00:21:21.809 it more power than it deserves, we embraced it. And then, 426 00:21:21.849 --> 00:21:25.529 of course, the final point within that is knowing to 427 00:21:25.589 --> 00:21:29.210 control mental health problems. Now, control is not what you 428 00:21:29.250 --> 00:21:31.430 would think when it comes to mental health issues and 429 00:21:31.450 --> 00:21:36.009 dealing with them, because despite what people think, You can't 430 00:21:36.049 --> 00:21:38.839 control your thoughts. Nobody can. They just pop into our mind. 431 00:21:38.859 --> 00:21:43.400 The brain is a very, very powerful computer. So control 432 00:21:43.619 --> 00:21:47.079 and controlling your mental health, really, what Lauren told me 433 00:21:47.099 --> 00:21:50.559 was about understanding that being in control of your mental 434 00:21:50.599 --> 00:21:53.029 health was actually about not being in control at all. 435 00:21:53.470 --> 00:21:56.049 That you can't control your thoughts. That they come and 436 00:21:56.069 --> 00:21:58.349 they go. And it's allowing them to be there. It's 437 00:21:58.390 --> 00:22:01.109 accepting them to be there. And it's having the courage 438 00:22:01.150 --> 00:22:04.140 to face them and go towards them. So this is 439 00:22:04.180 --> 00:22:06.259 some of the therapy that I'd kind of never done before, 440 00:22:06.579 --> 00:22:11.039 and Lauren brought it into my life. And for the 441 00:22:11.180 --> 00:22:14.089 first time in my life, I stopped fighting. I put 442 00:22:14.109 --> 00:22:17.390 my arms down, and I went towards my mental health issues, 443 00:22:17.529 --> 00:22:22.410 my OCD. And when I did this, I realized that 444 00:22:22.849 --> 00:22:26.079 it had no substance. It was nothing but a lie. 445 00:22:27.299 --> 00:22:29.759 And it was from that point that my life started 446 00:22:29.819 --> 00:22:33.779 to improve. But of course... What Lauren also taught me, 447 00:22:34.359 --> 00:22:37.099 and she's a very aspirational lady and she wants the 448 00:22:37.160 --> 00:22:42.519 very best for her patients, is that it isn't just 449 00:22:42.559 --> 00:22:47.579 about recovery, Adam. Why stop at recovery? You can use 450 00:22:47.599 --> 00:22:51.900 your mental health issues, your mental health problems to your 451 00:22:51.940 --> 00:22:55.980 advantage now because you know your mind perhaps better, or 452 00:22:56.019 --> 00:22:58.000 you know the workings of the mind perhaps better than 453 00:22:58.119 --> 00:23:02.069 anybody else who's never had a mental health problem. So 454 00:23:02.109 --> 00:23:04.579 let's look at this. So the issues that you've had 455 00:23:04.619 --> 00:23:09.420 and the trials and tribulations that you've been through, you 456 00:23:09.440 --> 00:23:13.259 can actually put that into, that can be put towards 457 00:23:13.279 --> 00:23:17.309 your advantage in living life beyond just recovery. So don't 458 00:23:17.349 --> 00:23:21.009 just think about recovery. Use everything you've learned about recovery 459 00:23:21.029 --> 00:23:23.650 and about your mental health issues and take that into 460 00:23:23.690 --> 00:23:27.349 your next stage of your life. and go beyond recovery 461 00:23:28.190 --> 00:23:31.809 and don't fear things go towards them say yes to 462 00:23:31.849 --> 00:23:35.369 things because you've seen what happens when you do that 463 00:23:35.390 -->

00:23:38.829 with your mental health problems see what happens when you 464 00:23:38.869 --> 00:23:41.549 take that towards life as well so lauren was not 465 00:23:41.569 --> 00:23:44.410 just this lady who wanted me to get better and 466 00:23:44.430 --> 00:23:47.210 be comfortable with that and accept it oh i'm better 467 00:23:47.670 --> 00:23:49.809 she actually wanted to go even further and said this 468 00:23:49.869 --> 00:23:51.809 is now that i'm living your life beyond and go 469 00:23:51.829 --> 00:23:55.970 and go and make things happen and use and these 470 00:23:56.009 --> 00:23:58.329 things around mental health and these issues that you've had 471 00:23:58.349 --> 00:24:00.490 with mental health to your advantage to live a life beyond. 472 00:24:00.509 --> 00:24:03.930 So it was a really powerful concept and it's something 473 00:24:03.960 --> 00:24:07.099 she instilled into me and implemented into me over the 474 00:24:07.140 --> 00:24:11.759 months that I had therapy with her. And it was 475 00:24:11.779 --> 00:24:14.019 just wonderful. You know, it put me in a frame 476 00:24:14.059 --> 00:24:17.319 of mind that I've never had before. I'm very healthy now. 477 00:24:17.339 --> 00:24:21.960 You know, I'm not only mentally fit, I'm physically fit. 478 00:24:22.460 --> 00:24:25.559 Of course, I still have OCD traits. You know, I do. 479 00:24:25.900 --> 00:24:28.690 But I now know it's not, I can't control those, 480 00:24:28.750 --> 00:24:30.450 but what I can control is how I react to 481 00:24:30.470 --> 00:24:32.650 them and how I react to them now is accepting 482 00:24:32.670 --> 00:24:36.230 them and sometimes going towards them. So it's a life 483 00:24:36.269 --> 00:24:42.019 worth living. And it was just fabulous. And I was so, 484 00:24:42.160 --> 00:24:47.720 after recovery, I was so disappointed that they didn't have 485 00:24:47.759 --> 00:24:52.930 this kind of therapy anymore. in NHS that wasn't made 486 00:24:53.069 --> 00:24:55.589 widely available and that I'd have to pay for it 487 00:24:56.650 --> 00:24:58.509 because I'd done fairly well in business and sold my 488 00:24:58.549 --> 00:25:00.289 company I was looking for the next chapter of my 489 00:25:00.329 --> 00:25:02.849 life and I thought I can't recover in silence I'm 490 00:25:02.869 --> 00:25:06.150 not very spiritual I'm not even religious really but I 491 00:25:06.230 --> 00:25:07.690 felt I had a calling and I had to do 492 00:25:07.710 --> 00:25:11.099 something that's why I said to Lauren Lauren what you've 493 00:25:11.130 --> 00:25:14.759 told me and what we need to put down we 494 00:25:14.779 --> 00:25:18.240 need to get this out to people and that's how 495 00:25:18.259 --> 00:25:19.980 we came up with the concepts of the books But 496 00:25:20.019 --> 00:25:22.359 we don't just stop there. We don't just have the book. 497 00:25:22.539 --> 00:25:25.970 I formed a large publishing company that just solely focuses 498 00:25:26.029 --> 00:25:29.009 on mental health recovery books and inspirational stories. We don't 499 00:25:29.049 --> 00:25:33.519 do anything else apart from that. It's about giving people hope. 500 00:25:33.579 --> 00:25:35.519 It's about people who've had mental health problems, giving them 501 00:25:35.539 --> 00:25:38.099 a voice. But more importantly, it's about sufferers and families 502 00:25:38.119 --> 00:25:41.309 being able to get their hands on these books and recover. 503 00:25:42.730 --> 00:25:46.390 But the wonderful thing is, it's a very philanthropic publishing 504 00:25:46.609 --> 00:25:50.490 organization that I've evolved. And the proceeds from these books 505 00:25:50.509 --> 00:25:53.349 go in towards my charity, which is the Shoreline Foundation. 506 00:25:55.059 --> 00:25:57.619 So it's a very, it ticks the boxes for me. 507 00:25:57.839 --> 00:26:00.490 You know, we help people. But equally, when people purchase 508 00:26:00.529 --> 00:26:02.799 our books, they're also helping themselves, but they're helping people 509 00:26:02.859 --> 00:26:05.220 less fortunate because the funds go back into the foundation 510 00:26:05.259 --> 00:26:07.440 and we're reaching out to people, not just in the UK, 511 00:26:07.519 --> 00:26:08.359 but around the world. 512 00:26:09.119 --> 00:26:10.039 Now, that's great to hear. 513 00:26:10.180 --> 00:26:13.259 And before we get on to the Shore Mind Foundation, 514 00:26:13.720 --> 00:26:18.640 in the book, you guys touch on compassion. And this 515 00:26:19.440 --> 00:26:23.539 is an area I think I find quite fascinating, mostly recovery. 516 00:26:23.559 --> 00:26:25.549 And it'd be good to hear how compassion played a 517 00:26:25.589 --> 00:26:26.549 role in your recovery. 518 00:26:27.420 --> 00:26:29.720 Well, yeah, it's a really good point. I'm glad you 519 00:26:29.740 --> 00:26:34.720 brought it up because compassion is key. I think as 520 00:26:34.759 --> 00:26:37.000 a mental health sufferer, and certainly with me with OCD, 521 00:26:37.019 --> 00:26:39.400 I wasn't compassionate to myself. Looking back, I'd be myself. 522 00:26:39.599 --> 00:26:40.839 If I had a bad thought, if I had a 523 00:26:40.880 --> 00:26:43.420 bad day, I'd be hard on myself. I'd be very, 524 00:26:43.480 --> 00:26:45.240 very hard on myself. So much so it would take 525 00:26:45.289 --> 00:26:48.150 me back. Because I think as a sufferer, when you 526 00:26:48.170 --> 00:26:50.329 have mental health problems, you're looking for that magic pill 527 00:26:50.349 --> 00:26:51.690 to make it all go away straight away, or that 528 00:26:51.750 --> 00:26:55.269 magic formula. And if you get an inkling of something 529 00:26:55.289 --> 00:26:56.900 that's going to give you hope, but then You have 530 00:26:56.920 --> 00:26:58.809 a bad day the next day, you beat yourself up 531 00:26:58.849 --> 00:27:02.950 about it. And it feels natural to do, but it's 532 00:27:02.970 --> 00:27:07.529 the wrong thing to do. And compassion

for me and 533 00:27:07.710 --> 00:27:13.039 what Warren brought into my life was about saying, let's 534 00:27:13.140 --> 00:27:16.269 look how far you've come. You need to be, you know, 535 00:27:16.529 --> 00:27:18.210 you need to look how far you've come in your 536 00:27:18.230 --> 00:27:20.759 recovery and you need to give yourself a pat on 537 00:27:20.799 --> 00:27:26.359 the back. And it can't happen overnight, but you have 538 00:27:26.380 --> 00:27:28.480 to look what you've achieved. Even when you had your 539 00:27:28.500 --> 00:27:31.099 mental health problems, you have to see how you survived 540 00:27:31.140 --> 00:27:33.940 every day. That shows how strong you are and how 541 00:27:33.960 --> 00:27:37.309 you're a survivor and you're determined to survive. You need 542 00:27:37.329 --> 00:27:40.529 to be compassionate to yourself and show that. It was 543 00:27:40.589 --> 00:27:43.329 reinforced to me on those days to be compassionate to myself, 544 00:27:43.369 --> 00:27:45.910 to look how far I've come, to look what I've 545 00:27:45.950 --> 00:27:49.170 achieved in my life despite the mental health problems. I've 546 00:27:49.190 --> 00:27:53.660 had a family. I've got a good business. To look 547 00:27:53.700 --> 00:27:56.140 at what I've achieved despite those and to put my 548 00:27:56.359 --> 00:27:58.319 hand on the back and say, Adam, you know, look 549 00:27:58.400 --> 00:28:01.299 what you're doing here. When we had good days, we'd 550 00:28:01.339 --> 00:28:03.000 take it in. When we had bad days, we'd look 551 00:28:03.019 --> 00:28:07.880 how far we'd come. So compassion and being compassionate to 552 00:28:07.920 --> 00:28:14.710 ourselves on recovery. is key to this whole thing as well. 553 00:28:15.630 --> 00:28:19.039 And it's also about being compassionate. It's not just about 554 00:28:19.079 --> 00:28:20.819 patting yourself on the back as well, but it's also 555 00:28:20.859 --> 00:28:24.500 being looking after yourself. So being compassionate to yourself, for me, 556 00:28:24.519 --> 00:28:29.599 meant changing my diet slightly because as a consequence of 557 00:28:29.619 --> 00:28:32.269 my OCD, I had a fairly bad depression, comorbid depression. 558 00:28:32.349 --> 00:28:35.210 So my weight ballooned for me. Some people don't eat 559 00:28:35.230 --> 00:28:36.890 when they have depression. I went away in it a lot. 560 00:28:37.559 --> 00:28:39.740 I didn't look after my body. I've not exercised a lot. 561 00:28:40.339 --> 00:28:42.480 So I realized to be compassionate to myself was also 562 00:28:42.509 --> 00:28:43.980 to look after my body and to start to do 563 00:28:44.029 --> 00:28:45.890 some exercise. And that wasn't, you know, I wasn't running 564 00:28:45.910 --> 00:28:47.950 for a marathon, but it was just taking, started by 565 00:28:47.970 --> 00:28:54.329 taking 20-minute strolls out in the park and stuff like that. So, yeah, 566 00:28:54.650 --> 00:28:57.130 it was instilled to me from an early start that 567 00:28:57.609 --> 00:28:59.490 I need to, even on my bad days, we need 568 00:28:59.509 --> 00:29:03.410 to reflect and kind of be compassionate to ourselves in recovery. 569 00:29:03.430 --> 00:29:05.349 Because as a mental health sufferer, you always want to 570 00:29:05.369 --> 00:29:07.089 believe the worst. You want to be negative about it. 571 00:29:08.400 --> 00:29:11.119 and it's having the mindset to step away from that 572 00:29:11.180 --> 00:29:12.980 and say you know what look what I've achieved so 573 00:29:13.039 --> 00:29:15.759 far despite my mental health problems I've survived every day 574 00:29:15.779 --> 00:29:17.700 look where I am and it was reinforced to me 575 00:29:19.339 --> 00:29:21.220 that's how compassion was defined. 576 00:29:20.900 --> 00:29:24.519 To me in my recovery yeah good explanation it's so 577 00:29:24.559 --> 00:29:27.279 important but yeah it'd be good to hear about the 578 00:29:27.299 --> 00:29:28.759 Shore Mind Foundation. 579 00:29:28.940 --> 00:29:33.359 Okay the Shore Mind Foundation is obviously that's my passion 580 00:29:33.839 --> 00:29:35.940 everything we do within the publishing side of the business 581 00:29:36.000 --> 00:29:40.059 is to support a foundation Somebody who's come from the 582 00:29:40.099 --> 00:29:42.539 commercial side or the corporate world who's kind of been 583 00:29:42.559 --> 00:29:45.230 in business, I don't know anything other than to kind 584 00:29:45.269 --> 00:29:48.769 of make this work and to make it into something 585 00:29:48.789 --> 00:29:54.150 to make, just to help people. And we're a global foundation, 586 00:29:54.609 --> 00:29:58.450 and we have a number of objectives. of course our 587 00:29:58.470 --> 00:30:00.950 primary objective is to help people and be advocate for 588 00:30:00.990 --> 00:30:03.390 people and families who've got mental health problems to speak 589 00:30:03.470 --> 00:30:08.220 out for them to support them internally as well in 590 00:30:08.259 --> 00:30:14.579 local communities families who've lost their jobs because of mental 591 00:30:14.619 --> 00:30:16.859 illness and help them get back into work children who've 592 00:30:16.880 --> 00:30:19.660 got parents with mental health problems support them children who've 593 00:30:19.680 --> 00:30:23.130 got mental health problems but we also wanted to be 594 00:30:23.150 --> 00:30:26.089 known as a foundation that did things whilst I have 595 00:30:26.150 --> 00:30:30.990 no Nothing bad to say about any other charity. What 596 00:30:31.039 --> 00:30:33.599 I did notice when I came into this industry was that, 597 00:30:33.680 --> 00:30:35.460 you know, there's a little bit of red tape. It's 598 00:30:35.579 --> 00:30:40.220 quite political. There's a lot of talkers, but there's not 599 00:30:40.240 --> 00:30:42.420 a lot of doers. So there's a lot of people talking. 600 00:30:42.460 --> 00:30:43.759 We need to do this. We need to do that. 601 00:30:43.779 -->

00:30:45.509 We need to raise money for this. But it's not 602 00:30:45.549 --> 00:30:48.049 a lot of. seems to be happening and doing so. 603 00:30:48.630 --> 00:30:50.130 The team that I've put into place is a very 604 00:30:50.190 --> 00:30:54.250 strong team, drawn on from corporate world, from people who've 605 00:30:54.289 --> 00:30:57.829 had mental health problems, from people who work with people 606 00:30:57.849 --> 00:30:59.630 with mental health problems. And we want to be known 607 00:30:59.670 --> 00:31:05.210 as a dynamic charity. that gets things done. That's why 608 00:31:05.230 --> 00:31:06.910 the books are so important to us as well, so 609 00:31:06.950 --> 00:31:09.079 we have the funding, so it can wipe its own face, 610 00:31:09.099 --> 00:31:11.640 so we're not relying on public donations all the time. 611 00:31:12.140 --> 00:31:14.940 We still have the resource and the capacity to help people. 612 00:31:15.440 --> 00:31:17.559 But our primary objective, which we set out for this year, 613 00:31:17.579 --> 00:31:22.859 which is really important to us, is to crusade and 614 00:31:23.319 --> 00:31:28.829 petition the government to ensure that mental health, education, becomes 615 00:31:28.930 --> 00:31:34.150 compulsory absolutely compulsory in all day schools primary and secondary 616 00:31:34.170 --> 00:31:36.809 schools there is no excuse not to have it in 617 00:31:36.849 --> 00:31:39.710 place for us it's just as fundamental as learning to 618 00:31:39.819 --> 00:31:44.259 read learning to write learning about physical education learning about 619 00:31:44.299 --> 00:31:47.960 biology mental health education has to be in there it's 620 00:31:47.980 --> 00:31:53.420 an absolute live skill to have an education on mental 621 00:31:53.460 --> 00:31:56.829 health It won't stop people from having mental health problems, 622 00:31:56.849 --> 00:31:58.829 but it will make a massive difference to how we 623 00:31:58.849 --> 00:32:01.049 deal with it in the future. Because at the moment, 624 00:32:01.109 --> 00:32:04.150 it's very much a sticky plaster technique. The governments say 625 00:32:04.190 --> 00:32:06.529 they'll invest more money. The governments say they'll put first 626 00:32:06.609 --> 00:32:09.299 aid into school. They'll train teachers to look out for it. 627 00:32:09.809 --> 00:32:13.029 But unfortunately, that doesn't happen. That doesn't work. What that 628 00:32:13.069 --> 00:32:15.029 does is put a sticky plaster on. So it captures 629 00:32:15.059 --> 00:32:18.940 those people who are already poorly. But if we want 630 00:32:19.000 --> 00:32:22.400 to be a society that prospers and have aspiration for 631 00:32:22.420 --> 00:32:24.960 the next generation, the only way we're going to do 632 00:32:25.000 --> 00:32:29.109 that is our next generation understand mental health and understand 633 00:32:29.130 --> 00:32:31.730 the impact of the education around it. So, all right, 634 00:32:31.789 --> 00:32:33.809 two or three children in every class might have mental 635 00:32:33.829 --> 00:32:36.309 health problems. And most people would say, well, what about 636 00:32:36.349 --> 00:32:37.930 the other seven? Why do they need to have mental 637 00:32:37.950 --> 00:32:40.549 health education? Well, they absolutely do need to have it. 638 00:32:40.650 --> 00:32:42.980 Why do they need to have physical education? Why do 639 00:32:43.000 --> 00:32:44.779 they need to read? Why do they need to write? 640 00:32:45.039 --> 00:32:48.720 Because these are all things that make them a more 641 00:32:48.740 --> 00:32:51.819 fulfilled person. And of course, these are future CEOs in 642 00:32:51.839 --> 00:32:55.000 the school. These are future managing directors, future pilots, future policemen, 643 00:32:55.019 --> 00:32:58.390 future firemen. And they're going to come across mental health issues, 644 00:32:58.430 --> 00:33:00.970 whether it's themselves, whether it's the family, whether it's the children, 645 00:33:00.990 --> 00:33:05.430 whether it's the colleagues. Having an understanding, having education around 646 00:33:05.450 --> 00:33:10.200 mental health on how your mind works and how to 647 00:33:10.240 --> 00:33:13.000 lead a more fulfilled life and have a more positive 648 00:33:13.039 --> 00:33:15.829 life mentally is He's a very, very key skill because 649 00:33:15.869 --> 00:33:18.680 without mental health, we have nothing. So the only way 650 00:33:18.720 --> 00:33:21.740 we can do it is not throw more money at it. 651 00:33:22.160 --> 00:33:25.410 The only way we can help the NHS, which is 652 00:33:25.569 --> 00:33:30.319 crippling and also on the mental health side. issues the 653 00:33:30.400 --> 00:33:33.109 economy is being drained because so many people are having 654 00:33:33.119 --> 00:33:35.230 time off because of mental health problems the only way 655 00:33:35.250 --> 00:33:36.829 you can do this the only way you can address 656 00:33:36.849 --> 00:33:38.390 it is go back to the root and make it 657 00:33:38.430 --> 00:33:41.269 a core subject in school yeah and if we do 658 00:33:41.329 --> 00:33:43.710 that we might not see a massive change in the 659 00:33:43.750 --> 00:33:46.049 next few years but i guarantee you in 10 15 660 00:33:46.049 --> 00:33:49.470 years the next two decades that education will filter through 661 00:33:49.519 --> 00:33:53.299 society it will put it will be more beneficial to 662 00:33:53.319 --> 00:33:56.230 the nhs It will be so much more beneficial to 663 00:33:56.250 --> 00:33:58.859 the UK economy. But just as important to me and 664 00:33:58.880 --> 00:34:01.299 the foundation, it will mean that people have a chance 665 00:34:01.319 --> 00:34:04.000 of a more fulfilled life because they're educated on mental health. 666 00:34:04.579 --> 00:34:07.920 People don't understand mental health. They only see at the 667 00:34:07.960 --> 00:34:09.929 moment what's out there in the media. We need to 668 00:34:09.969

--> 00:34:11.690 be sat down in a classroom and we need to 669 00:34:11.730 --> 00:34:14.949 be taught about mental health and about how to live 670 00:34:14.989 --> 00:34:17.429 a more fulfilled life. So our objective this year is 671 00:34:17.449 --> 00:34:21.420 to make sure that the government listen. We've mounted a 672 00:34:21.429 --> 00:34:25.420 crusade and we've had over 40,000 signatures already we've got 673 00:34:25.460 --> 00:34:28.599 corporates on board blue chips on board supporting it uh 674 00:34:28.820 --> 00:34:32.250 and it's you know there's we're investing a lot into 675 00:34:32.269 --> 00:34:32.849 this to make. 676 00:34:32.730 --> 00:34:36.050 Sure it happens yeah no absolutely i agree yeah you've 677 00:34:36.070 --> 00:34:38.230 got a kind of like pulling weeds right you've got 678 00:34:38.250 --> 00:34:39.989 to go right to the core because otherwise they just 679 00:34:40.030 --> 00:34:43.650 grow again um and also everyone everyone has mental health 680 00:34:43.699 --> 00:34:47.099 problems whether it's an actual diagnosable condition or just you 681 00:34:47.119 --> 00:34:50.599 know struggling with self-esteem or confidence if you teach kids 682 00:34:50.639 --> 00:34:53.420 these skills they'd be able to tackle that and you 683 00:34:53.460 --> 00:34:57.639 know exactly yeah So final question then, because I know 684 00:34:57.679 --> 00:34:59.099 you've got to go. 685 00:34:59.460 --> 00:35:01.119 What advice do you have for someone who wants to 686 00:35:01.159 --> 00:35:02.039 live an amazing life? 687 00:35:02.980 --> 00:35:08.340 What advice? Well, it's a question to live an amazing life. Well, 688 00:35:08.619 --> 00:35:10.139 one thing that I would say is when I've had 689 00:35:10.179 --> 00:35:13.949 my mental health problems, I've got to know myself. I 690 00:35:13.989 --> 00:35:16.489 know who I am. And I think first and foremost, 691 00:35:17.250 --> 00:35:19.650 you have to know who you are. You have to 692 00:35:19.690 --> 00:35:22.739 find out who you are as a person. uh and 693 00:35:22.780 --> 00:35:24.579 it's a hard thing to do that especially you know 694 00:35:24.619 --> 00:35:27.860 me in my 20s and even so into my 30s 695 00:35:28.420 --> 00:35:30.860 there's so much pressure put on us from outside media 696 00:35:30.900 --> 00:35:33.840 and influence you're trying to conform to what society says 697 00:35:33.940 --> 00:35:36.760 is is normal and this is what makes you successful 698 00:35:36.800 --> 00:35:39.230 and if you've got this you're successful if you haven't 699 00:35:39.250 --> 00:35:41.389 got this you're not successful you need to behave this 700 00:35:41.429 --> 00:35:43.590 way you need to behave that way and i think 701 00:35:43.670 --> 00:35:45.949 it's that has a big thing to play in people's 702 00:35:47.309 --> 00:35:49.969 mental health problems. I also think social media doesn't help 703 00:35:50.010 --> 00:35:52.980 given that, you know, it's people's highlight reel, the social media. 704 00:35:53.000 --> 00:35:55.340 People only put good things on there. But of course, 705 00:35:55.400 --> 00:35:58.880 people looking at it from afar compare their lives to that. 706 00:35:59.420 --> 00:36:01.139 So I think the first thing that you have to do, 707 00:36:01.159 --> 00:36:03.820 in my view, to live amazingly, is you have to 708 00:36:04.940 --> 00:36:06.780 let that go and you have to find out who 709 00:36:06.800 --> 00:36:09.570 you are as a person. What's important to you? Not 710 00:36:09.610 --> 00:36:12.860 what's important to what you're perceived as or what people 711 00:36:12.909 --> 00:36:15.360 think of you, but what's important to you. So get 712 00:36:15.400 --> 00:36:18.219 to know yourself. And my mental health problems have really 713 00:36:18.260 --> 00:36:20.179 helped me get to know myself, what I like, what 714 00:36:20.199 --> 00:36:22.599 I don't like. And I've used that to my advantage. 715 00:36:23.920 --> 00:36:26.960 So one is get to know yourself. Once you know yourself, 716 00:36:27.659 --> 00:36:29.940 then don't let anything stop you from going for what 717 00:36:29.960 --> 00:36:35.619 you want to go for. Do not let fear be 718 00:36:35.659 --> 00:36:40.139 disguised as practicality. So what I mean by that is 719 00:36:40.219 --> 00:36:44.519 do not disguise your fear because you don't want to 720 00:36:44.559 --> 00:36:48.159 do something because you're a bit scared of it and 721 00:36:48.179 --> 00:36:51.059 it might fail by saying practically, oh, it wouldn't have 722 00:36:51.079 --> 00:36:57.539 worked anyway. Okay? So life is very much a cliche, 723 00:36:57.559 --> 00:37:00.000 but life is very, very short. We're here for that 724 00:37:00.019 --> 00:37:03.719 much of a second. And when I was stood on 725 00:37:03.739 --> 00:37:06.179 that bridge, and I keep going back to that now, 726 00:37:06.760 --> 00:37:11.750 I say to myself, If, when I get to my 727 00:37:11.769 --> 00:37:20.670 end of my life, would I do it differently? If 728 00:37:20.750 --> 00:37:22.489 I felt I would do it differently, I felt I 729 00:37:22.530 --> 00:37:25.809 was held back by fear or anything like that, then 730 00:37:25.829 --> 00:37:28.159 I would make sure I go and do what I 731 00:37:28.219 --> 00:37:31.079 need to do. So if there's something that's on my 732 00:37:31.119 --> 00:37:33.800 mind or something that I'm thinking about doing within the business, 733 00:37:33.820 --> 00:37:36.860 within the charity, and I'm not quite sure I'm a bit, 734 00:37:36.940 --> 00:37:39.269 you know, is it the right thing to do? and 735 00:37:39.309 --> 00:37:41.150 it's going to take a pun, I kind of put 736 00:37:41.190 --> 00:37:44.369 myself on that deathbed in the hospital many years from 737 00:37:44.409 --> 00:37:48.670 now and think, should I have done it? Should I 738 00:37:48.690 --> 00:37:50.469 have done it? So that's how I look at things. 739 00:37:51.090 --> 00:37:57.199 So it's

knowing who you are as a person. Certainly 740 00:37:57.239 --> 00:38:01.699 don't disguise your fear as practicality. Take a risk. My 741 00:38:01.739 --> 00:38:05.400 view is if a risk needs to be taken and 742 00:38:05.440 --> 00:38:08.260 you're not quite sure, put yourself on that deathbed scene 743 00:38:08.300 --> 00:38:10.760 at the end and say, my life's coming to an 744 00:38:10.820 --> 00:38:12.719 end now. I've had a good life. Would I have 745 00:38:12.739 --> 00:38:15.139 done anything differently? Would I have taken that risk? And 746 00:38:15.179 --> 00:38:16.800 if the answer is yes, you should have taken it 747 00:38:16.860 --> 00:38:21.110 and just go for it. Life's short. So that's how 748 00:38:21.170 --> 00:38:22.610 I tend to live my life and I would give 749 00:38:22.630 --> 00:38:25.469 that advice to anybody asking the question. 750 00:38:26.150 --> 00:38:29.510 Yeah, really good advice and I used to, I need 751 00:38:29.550 --> 00:38:31.050 to do it more. I used to do that deathbed 752 00:38:31.090 --> 00:38:34.510 exercise a lot and I made a big decision sort 753 00:38:34.530 --> 00:38:36.590 of close to a year ago now that kind of 754 00:38:36.710 --> 00:38:39.619 using that logic and I'm glad I did it, and 755 00:38:39.679 --> 00:38:40.119 it took me. 756 00:38:40.119 --> 00:38:40.679 To, yeah. 757 00:38:41.139 --> 00:38:45.420 Because it really was, and you know, we make a 758 00:38:45.460 --> 00:38:48.519 lot of our decisions based on fear. Fear is a big, 759 00:38:49.019 --> 00:38:50.980 it's not only plays a part in mental health problems, 760 00:38:51.039 --> 00:38:55.360 but actually fear in everyday life, it's a killer of dreams. 761 00:38:55.380 --> 00:38:57.719 It's a killer of ideas. It's a killer of businesses. 762 00:38:58.469 --> 00:39:01.650 You know, there's so many great ideas and great books 763 00:39:01.710 --> 00:39:03.690 and great businesses that have gone to the graveyard with 764 00:39:03.730 --> 00:39:07.469 people and never been started because of fear. Fear kills dreams. 765 00:39:08.349 --> 00:39:11.869 So it's having the courage to face that fear and 766 00:39:11.889 --> 00:39:15.300 go for it. And that's why the deathbed exercise is 767 00:39:15.539 --> 00:39:17.320 always a good one. Would I have done it? My 768 00:39:17.559 --> 00:39:19.960 life's turned out now. Should I have done it? And 769 00:39:19.960 --> 00:39:22.130 that's how I tend to look at it. Absolutely. 770 00:39:22.130 --> 00:39:25.280 And if someone doesn't want to imagine their deathbed, then 771 00:39:25.280 --> 00:39:28.010 they can imagine themselves as like a 90 year old 772 00:39:28.070 --> 00:39:28.989 on a rocking. 773 00:39:28.670 --> 00:39:33.920 Chair exactly yeah exactly yeah should i have should i 774 00:39:33.920 --> 00:39:34.960 have taken that risk. 775 00:39:34.800 --> 00:39:38.059 Yeah absolutely okay cool so um i'll put all the 776 00:39:38.099 --> 00:39:40.380 links you mentioned stuff are in the show notes on 777 00:39:40.400 --> 00:39:43.599 the website thank you people can find out the book. 778 00:39:43.559 --> 00:39:47.260 And the charity yeah but no thanks for your time. 779 00:39:47.300 --> 00:39:49.469 Um Thank you for taking the time to speak to me, Stuart. 780 00:39:49.489 --> 00:39:51.670 I really appreciate it. Absolutely. And thank you for your 781 00:39:51.710 --> 00:39:52.409 good work as well. 782 00:39:52.909 --> 00:39:55.090 Cool. Hey guys, so I hope you enjoyed that episode 783 00:39:55.110 --> 00:39:58.010 with Adam. There'll be another interview coming next week. 784 00:39:58.820 --> 00:40:00.340 But yeah, so this. 785 00:40:00.219 --> 00:40:02.659 Podcast, as I mentioned before, is sponsored by No OCD 786 00:40:02.900 --> 00:40:05.340 and you can get that app through the website. 787 00:40:05.400 --> 00:40:06.920 If you go for the link, they would donate money 788 00:40:06.960 --> 00:40:07.960 to an OCD charity. 789 00:40:08.920 --> 00:40:13.570 And also, if you go to justgiving.com backslash the OCD stories, 790 00:40:13.590 --> 00:40:17.550 that's justgiving.com backslash the OCD stories. to sponsor me on 791 00:40:17.610 --> 00:40:22.179 my marathon run, raising money for the great charity OCD UK. 792 00:40:23.079 --> 00:40:24.139 So yeah, have a good 793 00:40:24.179 --> 00:40:27.780 Week, and I will speak to you soon, and all 794 00:40:27.829 --> 00:40:32.349 links will be on the OCDstories.com backslash podcast.