Full Transcript for How to Vet a Contractor Before You Sign | Renovation Bridge Founders

we call contractor broking brokers, which is when you might not you might have a contractor's license. Sometimes they're using somebody else's contractor's license that they're and that person's charging them money. But the really scary part is is that for example, you have somebody that sells a job to a homeowner. They don't have a crew or anybody that d does it and Then they go and just find subcontractors to fulfill all that. And the only reason I ever found out about that was because I've started finding these Facebook groups, there's things like how to ADU, California contractors, whatever, whatever. And you see in these posts, I'm looking for these subcontractors to do this job. And it's like every trade, it's framing, it's driving all sheetrock. Look, I'm not gonna say that we don't use subcontractors because we do. But we use consistent subcontractors, which is the same contractor, sometimes for seven years. The scary part is when you're basically just freelancing this out to people that are you don't know. And you probably wouldn't let inside your own house, but you're putting them inside somebody else's house. And then you can you can go down the list. all those type of things. But what I was saying to you earlier before the camera was were rolling was that. When we say these things, and this was one of the primary reasons why we started this podcast, the only other reason why we started it was to record my dad's stories. But the primary reason was we have these conversations so often with homeowners. And I would say probably fifty percent of the time we get through and people understand, yeah, I don't want to go down that road and have these bad outcomes that we hear all these horror stories about. But I say the other fifty percent I think already has such a wall up and it feels so guarded that when they talk to us, they're listening to what I'm saying, but not they're not really receiving what I'm saying. So I think what you guys do is you come from a an other perspective where when it comes from me, it feels like I'm selling something, which people can believe or not believe. But I think you're a impartial third party. Yeah. I I'm really happy that you brought up those two points because that's the two biggest friction points that we see when we're talking to contractors about it. Paper contracting is huge. There's a bunch of contractors who do this who they'll hold their own B license. They don't have any of their own subs, they don't have any of their own crews, and they end up signing the homeowner for $120,000, they go and sell a job for $100,000, and then they make the delta on that. And then obviously, the second thing that we see, and this is how a bunch of these big construction startups ended up going down, is they'll sign a project way cheaper than everyone else. Like we tell homeowners this all the time: like, if I'm sending you out three bids. All three of my bids are between $80 and $100,000. And you somehow got a bid for $60,000. My contractors are good. There's no way that someone came in, their cost of labor is the same as your cost of labor. Their cost of lumber is the same as your cost of lumber. So they need to make that money somehow. So we see this happen way too often. And this is like the number one reason homeowners get burned. They'll sign with the cheapest contractor, expecting that cheap price. And then that contractor needs to make his money somehow. So then as soon as he starts opening up your walls, This is wrong, change order. This is wrong, change order. This is wrong change order. And that's how a lot of homeowners get burned. So part of our vetting and part of what we do, and you guys know this, we went out to your job site. We made sure that the subs that were on your job site were wearing Mazamuto shirts. We made sure that you guys had good relationships with them. I see people coming in and out of your office, giving you high fives, giving you handshakes. Like that's good to see like the relationships that you guys have with the people who are actually working on the field is at the end of the day the most important thing. Because if your subs aren't happy working for you. They're not gonna do a good job for the homeowner. They're gonna show up tired, upset. That's not a good job, not a good client for the homeowner. So having subs isn't a bad thing, but it's having good relationships with your subs is what's really, really important. Right. 100%. Yeah, and I think, the the other part of what you're saying with these contractors who come in in these low prices, that's just one aspect of change orders. The other ones that we see are that they just won't show up. Yeah. Because what happens is You're gonna have a contractor who needs to make a certain amount of money. When he realizes he's not making that amount of money on the job, he's not gonna continue to go to that job. Right. And that's why you hear these stories about I can't get a hold of this person, he's not showing up. when he shows up, he works for a couple hours and he's gone. And it's also, you know, you in that same train of thought, you have these contractors who get spread way too thin and they're trying to juggle three or four jobs at a time. So then they're like, I'll spend a few days here, I'll spend a few days here, I'll spend and that's terrible. Yeah. we when we get into a job, we like to stay on that job from start to spit finish. Now, of course, there's times where emergencies come up, you might need some extra hands over a job, but that's very rare, and we try to to limit that. But I think there's so many valleys that we can go down with this whole thing. the other ones that I would like to talk about is. the liens that people get put on homes, what happens is a contractor, you hire a contractor, say that you you're gonna do a roof or something like that. That contractor goes out and hires a roofer. That roofer comes in, does the roof and pays all that material.

Yeah. the one thing I think homeowners don't understand is if that supplier for that subcontractor, or even if that subcontractor doesn't get paid from that contractor. They'll put a lien on your property. Yeah. So then you're you basically owe the money to that subcontractor and to the supply house for which that cut that was paid. That is really startling to to a lot of people. Yeah. so I think what you guys do is very crucial for the time because I call it it's kind of like the wild west. It's just it's like just everybody's going out there and just doing all these kind of nefarious things. Another Quick point I wanted to talk about. You guys said or I read it somewhere, how many contractors have you vetted up into this point? it's over four hundred at this point. Four hundred four years, yeah. And so out of those four hundred, how many think that you actually accepted? it's less than one in ten, then for less than one in ten. So it's not even forty, it's less than it's less than ten percent. Yeah, which is crazy. I mean, to think about four hundred vetted contractors and and not even ten percent of those passed. just give us some some stories about what you found when you when you vetted these some of these contractors. Yeah, I mean, I'll even say that a lot of those contractors probably could have done a good job and they had done good jobs in the past. It's not like all other, you know, 300 or something of them would do a bad job, but they didn't quite fit all of the needs that we would need to feel confident sending them to homeowners. So where they still could be good contractors and there's a ton of homeowners out there that could say, I've worked with this contractor, they did a good job on my project. Okay, but have they done a good job around the board on everyone else's project? that's what we what we strive to look for when working with contractors. But there's been a ton of unfortunate experiences we've had working when trying to vet other contractors. Luckily it that's what we do at our company, so it hasn't happened with our contractors. But any come to mind specifically of direct contractors? Directing. I mean, you kind brought brought something up earlier. It's if the subs don't get paid is a huge is a huge thing. So we like to make sure that when we go out to job sites, we like talking to the subs. We went out to your job site. We had a little bit of a conversation with them, but usually we'll have a little bit longer of conversations with the subs really ask them, Are you happy to be here? Are you do you like showing up on time? Are you getting paid on time? Again, if the subs don't get paid on time, it's a trickle down effect. They're like the base of everything. the other big thing is Googling people. so not only relying on CSLB, but we'll actually scan all the court records. We look up the actual like contractors' names, see if they've been personally sued. Sometimes they've been personally sued at a different company and

then they come and open a different company. So we see that happen sometimes. And then the other thing is too, and Jacob brought up that good point. Just because a contractor did a good job for your neighbor doesn't mean he's going to do a good job for you. And how we were talking about the homeowner that you guys dealt with last week, there's a mesh between the homeowner and the contractor. So most contractors will say yes to every project, but that's not a good thing because you don't want to work on every project and the homeowner doesn't want you working on every project. So making sure that the contractors have enough personalities in their office. So, they're not just one personality that this is exactly the way I operate. I can only work with this type of homeowner. Make sure that there's someone who's a little bit more understanding, someone who's a little more friendly, someone who might be a little bit like harder, stricter. And that way, when different types of homeowners come in, there's a different variety of people to go around. That's an interesting, it's it it's a super interesting point that you make because I'm the one who does the first touches with homeowners. And the very first thing that I tell them is. We need to vet each other right now. Yeah. literally. We're talking so you guys can get a little bit to know about us through via me, but you can go out there and do your research online. But just having that conversation with you, shaking your hand, getting to know you, having some personal conversations, we'll we'll be able to guess pretty quickly if we were going to want to work together. Yeah. And like you had mentioned too, like sometimes there's super needy clients out there. And I'm a pretty i I'm pretty good at at at fitting those needs, but we have a a couple of our employees that dude, they just the the amount of stamina these guys got with that is crazy. And sometimes like Marcos, for instance, i he's super good with clients and he'll see that I'm kind of getting a little dude, you're getting a little tired. Like, can I just take this over? I'm like, please, can you just talk to them? And it's great because you can't do everything yourself, you can't literally like to think that we can do it all ourselves, it it all takes a team, even with you guys, you guys are a team of two, right? And so we all have strengths and weaknesses. Sorry about that. We all have strengths and a and weaknesses, and and a lot of a good team is when your strength is his weakness and vice versa, you know. And realistically That's how we found you guys. I think I saw you guys on Instagram. I've started watching your videos. I was like, You guys are literally saying what me and him talk about all the freaking time. That's awesome. And I told Gino and then he just went and reached out to you guys. Yeah. And he's like, by the way, I talked to them. I'm like, sweet, man. And so, you know, it's it it was a real, I don't know if you want to call it serendipitous kind of way that we met you guys, but it was it's it's been we haven't worked together a ton. But it's been great thus far because we're all speaking the same freaking language. And we're here trying to do the same thing. Exactly. Yeah, I was gonna say I think it's it's also the support, right? Because I feel the hardest part of our job is to get across to people that we have their best intentions in in mind. Again, going back, that's why we started this podcast. Because if somebody if a homeowner can watch this podcast, get to know us, whether that's we're talking about things like here or just having conversations with our friends or our father, they get to understand us on a personal level. And that means that when Mario walks through the door for the first time, they already feel like they know him or they have an understanding of who he is. Because we at the end of the day are competing with a ton of con it's so saturated in the Bay Area with contractors. And I'm not gonna say every contractor because I know there's a lot of good ones and we're not the only ones, but I would say a large majority of the contractors that are going to walk through a homeowner's door are gonna feed them a line of BS. They're gonna tell they can get it done for this amount, it'll be this quick, it'll be so easy. And at the end of the day, it's a sales pitch, right? They're s they're selling themselves. We have to do that too. But we also have to go up against a lot of misinformation. So when we go in and and somebody goes, well, somebody said they can do this for 20,000, we go, that's that's that's unrealistic. That's my cost. Yeah, it's literally impossible. Either they're stealing the materials, they have a they have a credit card that they're getting materials for free, they're not paying somebody, or they're flat out lying. Some way, shape, or form, it's not legit. Of course. That's all you need to know, right? And dude, we've I've I've walked into people and they go, How much for this bathroom? I'm like, you can just Google it. It's an industry standard. Yeah. You can Google what does a bathroom model cost in the Bay Area? And you and put in your zip code, it will you'll get us a pretty tight range. Probably forty to sixty thousand. Somebody's like, yeah, I can get a bathroom done for like twenty thousand. Like, down the studs, like everything. yeah, yeah, everything done. I'm like, there's no reason for us to continue talking if that's the direction that you want to go. I'll try to save you and protect you from that. But if you don't want to listen to me, there's nothing I can do. Right. Yeah. And the thing with that interaction is that not only waste your guys' time, but it wastes the homeowner's time. They get discouraged that there's not good contractors out there. And then you guys get discouraged about the homeowners. So that's like what you mentioned earlier about you need to vet them and they need to vet you at the initial meeting.

That's what we do. We've already done the work to vet the contractors in our network. That's step one. We vetted all the contractors that we work with. The next step is when homeowners contact us. I'm usually four first point point of contact, kinda like you are. And I do the vetting myself of the homeowner. And then once I see that they check all the boxes, that's only when I pass along the project over to you guys. Sure. And you know, when we started working together, I asked what kind of projects you want to take. I asked what areas you want to work in, what what your priorities are for these types of renovation jobs. And so now when homeowners contact us and we can get through that vetting process, if I'll have that conversation with them. So I'll let them know what to expect budget wise. And obviously that was one of the things we asked you guys and Only if it aligns, then we it's almost like how a door that needs to unlock on both ways. So it's it unlocks on your end, and then we need to wait for the the homeowners to get that approval, and then we turn it and then the connection is made, and then it's up to you guys at that point to give them a good experience. I think you touched on a good point, which is budgets. That's always a sticky point in the biggest point in conversations because we always ask because we want to know is it in a feasible range. You know, it's it's like anything else. We're the industry pr professionals. So we have to understand where your numbers at and we can tell you, yes, that's feasible, or you should reframe what you think you you you want to do, maybe prioritize different things. The problem is is that most homeowners think that if they tell you that, that I'm just gonna go back in my office and write it up for that exact amount. Right. Right. It's a huge stigma and it's it's it's it's like the biggest thing that gets on and it's like Every time we talk to homeowners, it's like if you tell me your budget, I'm gonna be able to help you out ten times more than if I don't know your budget because we have our network, because we know I already know what my contractors are gonna charge you beforehand. So if you tell me where your where your budget is, I'm not gonna waste their time, I'm not gonna waste your time. I can get you two contractors who are at that price that you actually want to be at. And I feel like homeowners get so defensive about that. Mm-hmm. They're fine. And not the only one. It's just it's like it doesn't help anyone, you know? It doesn't help you guys, it doesn't help the homeowner. And it's Unfortunate stigma. It's kinda like if you really think about it, it's kinda like expecting to have a good relationship with somebody and then not being open with you. Right. How can you have build a good relationship from that? we gotta be we both have to be open. Well, what is We have to be honest and open and all those things. Exactly. It's like it's understandable that folks get protective, especially

in the beginning. I I won't name names, but you guys had sent us somebody and and they had told me. I said, so you guys got us through Renovation Bridge and And how did you guys hear about them? And they said we've had some really bad history with contractors. And so we found these guys because of that. And that's how we found you. So we want to do a bigger remote model, but we're only gonna have you guys start off with something really small because we're really hesitant. Yeah. And so, on that, on that note, what have you what what are some of the stories you guys that it pops in your head that that homeowners because you guys get to have these conversations with homeowners. What what are some of the things that homeowners tell you about their past experiences with contractors? one of the first things that comes to mind is contractors skipping permits, especially for projects. that's without it's surprising the amount of times homeowners will call me and say, I don't want to pull permits. I go, Well, the conversation's done here. Like, I don't want to put my job at risk and the contractors, and it's not safe for you. And of course, I explain to them why. And but it has happened multiple times with the contractors. I totally understand. Just do you have one or two people you could send me that just maybe don't do it by the book? I go. Do you know what my company does? no, that's what we aim to avoid. Absolutely not. Yeah. but there's homeowners that they say, but my neighbor did an unpermitted ADU with, this guy that they know from down the street. And it looks pretty good. I go, it might look good, but it's not gonna be the same every time, and you have no clue clue if it's legal. And there's been stories where they had to even tear it down. There's just gonna mention that. This is one project in Livermore, if you remember, where they built an ADU in the front yard, and they didn't file permits for it correctly. And not only did they have to pay for the entire demolition, but then they had to build the new one. So they tried to save maybe a hundred grand and ended up costing them three or four hundred thousand dollars over just because they wanted to cut some corners. Yeah, I think that's a a big misperception. I you know, if you're talking about a hundred thousand dollar kitchen remodel, a permit's probably gonna be about five, maybe eight thousand dollars. but that permit is to protect the homeowner. Because if I come in as a contractor to do that kitchen remodel and I do it and for some reason I wire up something wrong and there's electrical fire. Yeah. Well how how are they going to come after me for that? There's no record that I ever worked on that job. Exactly. Right? It's a safety thing. It's a safety thing, right? And so it's it's it's like insurance. It's just buying insurance. Yeah. And not only that, but the other th misconception is especially for an ADU. That's an investment that is gonna probably be a minimum of $150,000 and up. And you're putting it on your property. The reality is that if it's not permitted, it's not recorded, which means it's not allocated to your property value, which means that when you go to sell that, you're it's not gonna be included in the value. So the whole point of an ADU is is to to create some kind of passive income if you want to rent it out, but also To improve the value of your home. So if you were to sell it, you can recoup that cost. Yeah. But if you're not permitting it, they're not going to recoup that cost. I'm going to take that a step further because people probably don't realize this. If that okay, let's say theoretically, you do an addition onto an ha a house without a permit. Let's just start there. Yeah. No permit, it burns your house burns down. Guess what you get to rebuild? What was permitted? You do not get to rebuild what was there. well, I had this addition of a thousand square feet. That nope. Sorry. The insurance, your insurance company is gonna be like, show us the permits. Yeah. We did not insure that because we didn't even know about it. Right. So if we know about it and it's legal and it's all permitted, then we're gonna insure it. But the insurance company is not gonna pay you for it. I've seen that just that happen. See, I used to buy burndowns. That's how I know that. I used to buy and rehab burndowns. And so That equation I've seen more times than I can count. Secondly, I hear this from a lot of folks. Well, I'm not planning on ever selling. Yeah. Well, you're not ever planning on refinancing. Never, you don't know, right? So you're gonna you're gonna have one exit strategy. That's crazy. where's your plan B and plan C? So you're gonna save what? Like we said, a couple thousand dollars here and there to not have. That assurance that you can get a HELOC on your house, do a refinance or whatever. And then, I mean, again, just to go back to the burndown thing, you're gonna let somebody come in here and wire up and do all this sort of stuff. I mean, dude, that's the whole point of an inspector is to inspect our work. Yeah, they're not looking to like, you know, screw over the homeowner, they're looking to help them out. Exactly. And outside of that, if So if you bring in a contractor and you're not a contractor yourself as the homeowner, how do you know what's good and what's not good? well, I've done this before in the past. Watch a YouTube video. Whatever. Right? Yeah, exactly. Well, we're doing a we're doing a big job. It's a full h t house teardown and rebuild. And we actually got that job from the neighbor who didn't go with us. So the story is is that this guy calls me up, he wants to do a a garage conversion and I gave him a bid. He didn't go with us. He went with another contractor. It was cheaper. It was cheaper. But he had endless amount of problems with that contractor. But to the permitting point, he did get it they did get a permit, but they got red tagged, which basically means that they did something

wrong. It was with the foundation, that it wasn't per to the plans that they weren't doing it. So just to build off what he's saying is If if it wasn't permitted, that contractor would have done it that way and the inspector would never have caught it and that thing would have been built inadequately. And this is this is a guy that has he was building a garage that that it was storing classic cars and these cars are like a hundred thousand dollars each. You know, so so again he we got the job because he he recommended us even they Even though he didn't go with us because he realized what had happened by going with the other He was so dissatisfied with the contractor you went with. He was like, Man, I should have gone with these guys. And he told I think you didn't you talk to him and he was like, Man, I wish I would have gone with you. that that although that dude's price was a little bit cheaper than you, it was a freaking nightmare. Yeah. And like he's the nicest guy. We talked to him all the time. We're doing the house right next door. And he and he told me, he's already told me like three, four times, man, you guys are doing such a great job. Man, I wish I would have gone with you guys. hey, it it's it's so hard to convey because people think we're bullshitting. I could save you money, I could save you from this headache, but you think I'm just trying to sell us. It's like, no, I we we really want to help people. We really do. That's that's the goal with renovation. I want to get to the point where if a contractor has the renovation bridge stamp on it, homeowners can feel comfortable knowing that that contractor is actually trying to help them. I want to get to the point where it's not like any of the other lead gen sites where just any contractor can sign up. I want to get to the point where it's like homeowners really like they see the renovation bridge bridge and they know that hey, the contractor that's coming to my house is gonna actually be someone who is wanting to help, wanting to do a good job, wanting to actually get my project done for me, not just come in, grab as much money as I can and get out as fast as I can. Cause that's not not the way it should be. Yeah. That's why I'm so excited to work with you guys. One is I think it's great that you're so young coming into this because when you're youthful like you guys are, you bring a certain amount of of passion to it. Yeah, you want you're you're into it with the technology, you know what's going on, you're seeing the problems, it's it's like new blood coming into an industry. Cause most of the time the people that we deal with, I consider myself a young man. I'm I'm I'm forty six, but most of the people that I deal with are my age or older. and the the people that are younger than me are the people who I think cause majority of the problems because They're coming in, they're going, I it's like this going back to the the the Facebook pages. You you click on these people that are that are looking for these subcontractors because of some of these jobs and they're sit they're sitting on Lamborghinis and stuff. th th because this is the mindset of of people. I'm just I just want to do this to make money, and so that's what I really like about you guys. And so I I want to do as much as I can from our perspective to help you guys out because You guys are gonna be the voice of reason in in an industry that has just become flooded with nonsensical, misaligned miscommunications and straight out lies that have caused total detriment to the to the industry. I mean that's why I really when I start talking about these things, I get really fired up because it's one of the constant things that we continue to hit our heads against. How do we break through this wall? How do we how do we get people to feel comfortable? How do we make the process more easier? and to speaking of that, because of that, the process that you guys have. You help put customers at at ease. I think what what happens is my experience is that customers want to do a kitchen remodel or an addition or something. And they're so hesitant to start because one, they don't know where to start, two, they they're fearful of all these things and the the potential bad outcomes that they sit on these things for sometimes years. And by the time they actually pull the trigger, there's they're so full of anxiety because they just continue to think about, think about, think about, think about. so what I love about you guys is you're like a sounding board for the for the customer. Yeah. Do you s for example, just as a so cut people understand, you would call these guys and it would depending on what area you are, they would ask questions and then they would type put put you out to contractors. Can you give us a little bit of of just for the homeowner out there that's listening to this, they would call you and and basically walk them through what that process is. Yeah, absolutely. So a homeowner calls me and I first learn all about the details about the renovation project. I learned what they're looking to do, the timeline, the budget. I really also want to get an understanding of why. I it really helps me. I don't just want to get kind of bullet points and check them off and kind of see, okay, this is the details. I want to understand why the homeowner is renovating and what their goals are. Once I understand that, I get the details that I can further provide to the contractor. So I really make sure I get an understanding. I want to ask the homeowner if they've had bad experiences with other contractors. I find out what those experiences are and let them know how it's going to be different with our contractors and really bridge that gap. So if their main gripe with a previous contractor is their communication was bad, then that's one of the things I'll let you know. This homeowner really values communication. If they homeowner had a con met with a contractor who really was stuck up

over one specific detail, I can let you guys know that and then you can go in. fully prepared to be able to ease their worries and give them a much better experience going forward. Mm-hmm. And that's what the point I was wanted to that that I was trying to s explain is that not only are they calling you and and telling you things that they probably wouldn't tell us because you're not there to sell them the job. You're just there to help them connect the job. Of course, yeah. So they're gonna disclose things to you that they probably wouldn't say to us because They're going to look at us as if they give us two information, we're going to take advantage of that, right? Which is not the truth, but that's the perception. Right. So the other thing is once we actually go out to the job and have a conversation with them, then we can actually call you and go, hey, this is how it happened. This is what's going on. This is the conversation we have with them. And the homeowner does the same thing. So you're getting it and you're going like, okay, this is what the homeowner's saying. This is what the contractor's saying. Let me work with the homeowner to help them and guide them because. Typically you're gonna send out what, three contractors to to each job? That's a good number. Yeah, it's whatever's best for the homeowner. So if they want to meet with three, then three is good. If they want to start with one or two just to kinda test the waters, that's fine too. But three is a good number. So whatever however many of those people are that they're gonna see, they're the whole point of you guys is that now they can come back to you and go, like, Hey, you know, I really like that that contractor, but I was concerned about X, Y, or Z. And what is your feeling about this? And or he gave me this number. Does that seem that's less reasonable or anything like that, right? Yeah, there's no other service that really does that. And same for you. It's like if you guys I'm sure you've bought leads in the past from, other sites, if you buy a lead and then it doesn't go well, you're not gonna call the lead provider and say, Hey, you didn't tell me this one homeowner, you know, had this particular, you know, pre pre-ID about contractors before you're there's no one r really you can hold responsible to that versus with us you can't. So if you go to a project and It's not as described. Or, I know we told you about that beforehand, but if we send you to a project and you guys have a complaint, we're here. we want to know about it. We want to know what we can do better. But because of the level of vetting, that doesn't happen very often. But that kind of is an added layer of benefit to a company like ours. And same thing for the homeowner. So a homeowner meets with you guys and they said they reach back out to us after they say, Hey, I really like the meeting. I just had this one question about them, a question they may not might not have felt comfortable asking you. And They're happy asking us because of the trust and also because we're free for homeowners. So we're not, we're not selling anything to them. I'm not trying to And that's the big part. That's a big deal. And to take that even further, it's not just getting through the the the vetting and then signing of the the contract, which you do too. So you you help the customer go through you vetted them obviously, but they they still need to decide on who they go with. And tomorrow's point, that's it. a mutual interview and we want n we're not gonna be always or no nor will any contractor always be a good fit for every customer. The contractor has to be able to get along with the customer, the customer has to be along with and it's just like going on a first date. Yeah, exactly. You'll you'll sit down with a a date and you go, you know Whatever the issues are, but I'm I know that that's not gonna go anywhere. We just we just don't see eye to eye. Yeah, so believe it or not, Aunt and I have gotten very good at setting up our friends on dates because we know it kinda looked for ahead of time. That's another side business. So side business number two. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Yeah, we've heard the analogy before that we're like Tinder for contract now. well. So that homeowners can contact us and they can make their decision about what contractor they want to work with, knowing that there's questions. So the next the next was relationship bridge. I think we gotta find ourselves someone first to really show that we can yeah. So but you but so you help with that and then obviously when when the contractor actually presents a contract to the client, you can help guide them through that too. Like yeah, you know, a contract is gonna be sometimes hard for a c a customer to understand. So you can help them and go, that makes sense or That doesn't really make sense. Let's get some clarity for you on that or or whatever that is, right? A lot yeah, a lot of what I do, and this has transformed into my job at this point, and especially with the app now. So the app, when you guys submit a proposal through the app, the homeowner will see a breakdown of what's included in your proposal versus what's included in other people's proposals. And a lot of what I do is homeowners will call me and I'll really sit down with them line by line and explain to them exactly you're getting this with this contract, or you're not getting this with this contract. This contract included finished materials. This contract didn't include finished materials. Give you this allowance and really just explain to them why the price differences, why the time done differences. we had a project, I think it was in Dublin, where homeowner got it was a kitchen project. Homeowner got two $50,000 bids, and one of the bids was $100,000. And I know we were talking about this beforehand, where if you get two bids at one price and one bid that's at a completely different price, there's something wrong. And the third

contractor found out that there was mold. And so he included all the mold remediation stuff in that proposal. So then the homeowner came back to and was like, hey. Why is there a $50,000 spread? So we sat down, we explained it, and then went back to the other two contractors, told them, hey, one of the contractors who came to the meeting saw there was mold. You want to go back out there and rebid it. All the three contracts went out there, they rebid it, and then all the prices were the same again. So it's like that extra layer of actually explaining things to the homeowners. And the way I want to position myself is like as a useful neighbor. I want to be like a useful, knowledgeable neighbor. I want to be in their corner. I want to see them succeed. So that's where we're trying to position ourselves with that. And I deal with that all the time. I talk to Homers all the time about proposals. I think that's great. And so that's up to that point, but your your process continues beyond that. Yeah. Because even after they accept a proposal, now they have to start the job. Yeah. And that is somewhat times the the most complicated part because now you're going through all this process, your things are happening. So the customer might call you, for example, and go, Like, you know, they They found maybe mold, and the the contractor's recommending that I tear out all of this stuff and they gave me this price. What do you think? And now you guys can say, I eat that makes sense or that doesn't make sense, or some kind of variation. We we get that a lot for change orders all the time. So we're in contact with the homeowner from the very, very beginning from I have an idea of wanting a renovation until we show up there with a wine bottle in their new finished kitchen. And we get that all the time. homeowners will text me saying, Hey, I just got this change order for this wiring harness I need to move around or the sub panel that needs to get upgraded. Does this make sense? Is $10,000 to upgrade a sub panel worth it? Can I get it cheaper somewhere else? So I try to guide them through this is when you should be worried versus this is when you shouldn't be worried. And I'm very confident my contractors, 99% of the times it's just like little hiccups in communication. But then just them knowing that there's someone else who has their back in it is invaluable. it's so unbelievably valuable to me. Yeah, because up to this point with before you guys came along, I think people to our our resentment in some ways is we'll get they have a conversation with a h with a homeowner and they'll go, Well my my brother's a contractor in Wisconsin and he said you guys are doing it wrong. Yeah. And I go, Your brother's in the what what does he know? How does he know what's happening? Yeah. or my friend did a renovation four years ago and she said you guys are doing it wrong. Right. and so Or Chat G B T told me that you guys give it a different That's a whole nother thing. That's

a whole nother thing. I think that is is a really crucial thing. I think at the if you break everything down to the essence of the problems that that persist in construction, it's about trust. It's about having having a certain amount of understanding and quelling those fears that customers have. Because I would say if you talk to ten cus ten potential clients and you say what's their number one concern, budget and picking the right contractor. Yeah. Right. so by going through you guys, it's really you guys are like the bouncer at the club. It's just like, no, you're not getting in. You you know, and so they know that you have their back. Yeah. And I think that's really important. Yeah, the same way that we put our name behind you guys when we send you to a homeowner, we put our name behind the homeowner when we send it to you guys. So it's this mutual beneficial thing. And Jacob, I really like the Jacob analogy about a door that locks on both sides. And then we're just trying to be the key on both ends to unlock it. And sometimes the key fits and sometimes it doesn't. But our goal is to try to make sure that the key fits as well as possible. Sure. Yeah. You guys are the matchmakers for sure. Yeah. Yeah. It it makes it makes total sense and and it's such a It's such a needed thing, and that's why we're excited to work with you guys. your guys' company is such a needed thing in this industry. And we can't we can't do it alone in so many ways. And again, that's really honestly, it's it's a huge reason why we wanted to start this podcast. Yeah. And why we've talked about these stories before on the podcast. I mean, we're we are different. And again, it sounds like a sales pitch when I tell people, I'm sure, but you know, we've been around since 1938, and the reason why. we're still here is because we do the right thing. And that's the way our dad taught us and our grandfather taught us hey, even if you guys are walking away from this job, not making any money and did the right thing. And that is worth more. And it's really like the analogy that I like to use for us is we're milk farmers, not not butchers. Yeah. Like we're in it to to be in business way down the line. So we don't need to kill it today and butcher that cow basically. We want that cow to stay alive and we want to to to continue to get milk from it for for days on end and years and years and decades on end. And so therefore we have to be super careful about how we treat that person because they're going to tell other people and so on. And dude, sometimes it's hard when you're losing money. 100%, we're just eating it on this thing. But I got to keep this person happy and I got to hold up my end of the deal. Exactly. And so these are These are things that really help structure that good relationship with with with clients and all that and continue to to get work back for us. But it's hard. It's easier when there are a referral. It's harder when people see us on Google because they don't know who the hell we are. Right. At the end of the day. Because then you have to sell it versus just speaking to it. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. but the other side of the thing that we really haven't touched on yet is this. We've always we've talked about how you help. customer. But I think equally you help the contractor. Yeah. Because tomorrow's point, we want to create something and have a business that has longevity. And the only way you do that is put is put continually to be to be better and and to identify the things that are problems. So what's great about what you guys do is you know you were just in our office today. We literally just sh ran down here to shoot this. after you were helping us sort some stuff out. But you give us feedback from the customers on how they perceive it. Because sometimes we we do things, we'll present things to the client and sometimes we just don't hear back from that client. And we'll go, what happened? Where you know, and so what's nice is that we can come to you and go, like, you know, what did happen? And you go, well, they they said this or they did this or they went with somebody else for these reasons, and we go, okay, let's internalize that. Let's see how we can do better next time, right? And we're not always gonna get everyone, and that's not the goal. But the goal is is not only to make the the experience good for the the customer, to make it good for us so we can give a good experience for the customer. Exactly. You know, so the so you guys have been featured on some news channels, right? Tell us a little bit about that. Yeah, we were on NBC Bay Area, ABC seven, and then Jacob was just on Contra Costa News Network. Contra Costa News Network. That's a pretty big deal. how would you guys feel when you got a call up from these people they wanted to interview you? I think all three of them, I was the one making the phone calls actually. It was yeah, I wish I could say they just called me and said, Hey, it's a good thing. Yeah, yeah, it was incredible. There I think each way that it happened was for different stories. The first time we were on, it was actually two years ago, yesterday. Yeah. It was a NBC. There was a a story called Anchored Tiny Homes. Yes. which you guys are sure familiar with. A lot of homeowners in the area are in contractors. And some of our homeowners had the unfortunate experience of signing projects with them. We actually lost a couple projects to them and I saw red flags about Anchored Tiny Homes miles away. Their bids were too low. They weren't they didn't pass our vetting standards. We we spoke with them. And so I was I was pretty apprehensive initially and then I heard this come out and I saw all these news articles written about it. I'm like, I gotta reach out to them. So then I reached out to some of them and said, Hey, I've I have more information on this. And not only do I have more information, we have the solution. We have a way to prevent this from happening to other

homeowners. And so Chris Kamer, investigative reporter, responded. He's like, let's do it. And then that was one of the ways. And there's been various ways that we've been featured before, but it's really just as long as we can get in front of the right person, just share with them the message. And then what we have is such a valuable offer that it's it's unlikely that someone will see what we're doing and go, we don't need that. that's in any way, even if the homeowner just wants to save time, but they don't want to save money. If they don't want to save time, but they want to save money. If they there's no matter what it is, we have value to the homeowners that we're working with. and it's really just about kind of getting in front of the right people. You know, we always say, I feel like if just if more people knew about us, yeah. Yeah, I agree. That's all we need. So that I mean that that point that you just said is you had people that came to you that didn't listen to your advice and actually went with tiny homes. Yeah, the anchor tiny anchor tiny homes. And then obviously everybody should know what tiny homes what what happened with So what happened is they ended up opening many, many projects and they weren't able to pay for the workers to finish those projects. So rather than slowing down and reassessing, they took on more and more and more projects, took a couple hundred thousand dollars from each homeowner, used that money to pay off the older projects they didn't finish, and then it was a cycle they were doing more. Ponzi scheme. Ponzi scheme basically and then it was it was Insane for me to watch. They there were so many homeowners that were negatively affected by this. They couldn't meet in an office. They met at a park at a massive grass field to show all of the homeowners that had been scammed by Anchored Tiny Home. And when the government takes her you take government money and then, sc run into something like this. And that's, you know, so I think he's the owner's facing a lot of jail time as we speak. The the interesting part about that story is As a consumer, if I was a homeowner and I'm looking to do an ADU at that time when they're at the peak of their the success, you would look at that and go, That's a well-established company who's doing a lot of work. That's going to give me a certain amount of confidence in that that they can do that. Yeah, part part of the red flags, sorry with the red flags that we saw in them is when a company spreads themselves too thin. So Anchored was was located in Sacramento, I'm pretty sure, but they were doing projects everywhere, like literally everywhere. And then you think about the quality of it, right? you guys when you are doing projects in Martinez, you're a ten minute drive away. So exactly which subs are there on a daily basis. exactly what is going on with the homeowners, exactly when things are happening. When you have a project in Napa and then you have another project in Sacramento, how are you gonna get to both of them? Well, what did we say to you when we first started talking? And you because you said that you guys you do a lot of work on the peninsula. We said we want to want any of that. We don't want any amazing. That's exactly what we want to hear. I wanna have specializations 'cause you guys specialize in what you're good at and I wanna put you guys in the best position to succeed because when you guys succeed, you guys do a good job for the homeowner. We also want you to say no to projects. That's the whole point about what we do is if we offer a project, if you don't want to we don't expect you to take every single one we offer. And that's what it seemed like Anchored was doing is they were saying yes to every project, even if it was unrealistic, if it was unfeasible if the homeowner didn't have enough budget. If ev it could have even been a homeowner that was the issue with that. But it seemed like they were saying yes to everything to try to grow as quickly as possible rather than kind of being more picky. Yeah. So we encourage you guys to be as as as selective is a better word as you want with the homeowners that we send out and only really accept the ones that you feel would be a perfect fit. So tell us right now where you guys are at business wise as far as what you you're accomplishing and what your what your kind of next goal is and where you would like to see yourself in a few years. Yeah. Yeah. I I'm super excited about that just 'cause there's a lot of things going on right now. the Renovation Bridge app is officially launched. so contractors are already using it. we're waiting for App Store approval right now as we speak. So homeowner side should be done within about a week. so the whole goal and the whole point is that eventually homeowners will be able to go on to it and we'll have a bunch of resources for homeowners. So we were talking about pricing. So instead of having to Google like how much does a Bay Area bathroom renovation costs, we have data from thousands of proposals at this point, 'cause of all the homeowners we've sent projects to, all the contractors we've sent projects to. So I know roughly a what a twenty by twenty bathroom is gonna be or what a ten by twenty bathroom is gonna like, difference between a master bathroom and a hallway bathroom. so that's gonna be in the app. So they're gonna a price calculator. We also have a full renovation guide, which goes through what the red flags are, what to look for. If they submit their proposals in there, it analyzes their proposals and breaks it down based on the criteria that Jacob and I have built. so basically building a really strong resource for the homeowners to just even if they're not gonna use us, just have something that can tell them, Hey, this is a good thing, this is a bad thing, or like, hey, this is roughly what this should cost. And then obviously if they want to use us, there'll be a feature in there they can book a

call and then Jacob can walk walk them through it. My goal, and at least my vision, is to fundamentally change the way people are renovating. And that goes for contractors and for homeowners. And we're already doing that. It's just now about scaling. I want to get to the point where after I feel comfortable and confident that the Bay Area is locked down and I have good partners here and people who can actually take care of things here, want to eventually move to SoCal from there, cover the rest of California. And then the five-year plan is to all the West Coast and start moving east from there. I wanna Genuinely, I want to grow, but I want to grow slowly because I want to grow right. I don't want to grow like Angie's or how's or get to the point where we commercialize. I want to basically have dedicated offices in each area or region. So have a dedicated Bay Area office where just like how we're sitting down right now, you guys will be able to go in there, have a dedicated LA office. So there's actual relationships being built. And I like your analogy about milking a cow instead of slaughtering a cow. I want to milk cows everywhere. I want to have I wanna have one in Seattle, I wanna have one in Oregon, I want to have one in San Francisco. So that's that's the goal of where we want to get to. And I I think the value we add is so great that it'll get there. And it's just about doing it right, doing it slow and building it for the future. Because I I mean see this as like fundamentally changing the way people renovate. Like I see in ten years from now, people be like, Wow, I don't know how we renovated without this. One thing I'll add to that is in the past four years that we've been having this company, we've helped a couple hundred homeowners, and that's without having a software. Yeah. So the way that we've helped those homeowners is they just call us and everything is over the phone. We'll send them emails, but we haven't had a platform yet. So the fact that we've been able to help hundreds of homeowners without an app, it just makes me so excited about the future that now that it's finally launched and homeowners can download it themselves, it's the company is bigger than just on and I at this point. Yeah. which is really exciting and we'll scale it from there. I think again, I think I'm really encouraged because I think you guys are in it for the right reasons. Yeah. you have the right mentality. you're young enough to where you're gonna be the next generation that really helps sustain good quality going forward because we have had such I really I use the term epidemic, but I think that it really has been and a lot of homeowners have suffered for it. So I congratulate you guys with what you've been doing, with what your your success is. I look forward to seeing you guys grow and becoming more successful. And changing the landscape of the industry. So that being said, thank you guys for showing up. And for any homeowners that that want to do it, reach out to these guys. They're going to be your guide to help you through navigate the landscape. if you found this interesting to help us grow and get the word out there and and bring on more guests like this. If you if you enjoy these conversations or just family conversations, make sure you hammer that subscribe button, comment. It really helps with the algorithms and we're just a small company in a small area. We literally just ran down here from get from working to do this. Mar hasn't even eaten lunch yet. So And it's like four. We're rolling on booms. No after Yeah. Let's go even afterwards. I do have a question for these guys though before before we break, because the the one thing we didn't ask you guys is like the number one question that everybody has to know is how did you guys get Steve Young to speak on your behalf. I didn't know about that. Yeah. Yeah, we were now yeah, so it's it's a great story. I was speaking at an event that I was asked to speak at. It was a entrepreneurial event and it was one of my old teachers from high school was able to make a connection, get me there. It was at a I believe it was a Marriott hotel in in the Bay Area, and I went to speak there and I went first. I was kind of one of the openers and I spoke about renovation bridge and the company and gave the whole pitch. And then right after me, this I went this guy walks up on stage and does his whole his whole thing and I don't know who he is. I don't watch sports. And I'm say but before that I was before he goes up, I was in the hallway because there's like it was I guess you would say like a VIP area where the you know speakers go and I was just talking, look, you here for the event? I didn't know who he was and I was like and then after he goes up, I kinda stepped out and then I saw all these kids asking to take photos and I was like, That's odd. Like who is this guy? And they tell me who he is. I text my dad like, Have you heard of this player? He's like we have his you I have a photo in his jersey. So then after that I went back up to him And I said, What's up? And he like, Hey, I listened to you speak, it was wonderful what you're doing. And he just started saying a bunch of great stuff about the company and I was like, Let me stop you right there. Do you mind if I just take a video of this? Can I just take a quick selfie? And he goes, Yeah, you go for it. So I didn't tell him what to say. He just kinda said it because he was able to hear my pitch. he was a super nice guy. He was a really cool, it was a good experience. That's awesome. Dude, listen. You guys are probably too young then to to know Steve Young. And we're not really into sports all that much either. Our dad wouldn't let us he wouldn't let us play sports. We had the work. Okay. So leg that's that's for real, 'cause our dad's a just a old workhorse. He was like, put that basketball down, pick up that shovel. for real. But even at even though we weren't into it, Steve Young is huge, man. he's a generational icon. I know that now, yeah. And so what's so funny is that he used to do tour. commercials and all this stuff and Steve Young is known as like the trustworthy dude. You know what I mean? Like everybody knows him as a trustworthy guy. So for you guys to get him, like as your like dude, that that could have cost you guys like a million dollars to get that. And he did it for free. Yeah. So like hey, that's a blessing right there, man. Like we th thank your lucky stars that he did it for you. I was very happy about that. Yeah. All right. Thanks everybody for joining us again. Thank guys for showing up. Absolutely. And so, like I said, please help us grow this. We really want to make this a tool, just like they're working to increase the knowledge of the industry and get it out to homeowners. That's what we're trying to do with this podcast. So help us do that by liking and subscribing and commenting on on any platform that you watch us on. Till next time, I'm Gino Mazamuto. I'm Ori Mazamuto. I'm Olma Talon and I'm Jacob Gabriel. Thanks, everybody. Thank you hammer that subscribe button. We'll see you later. Take care. Thanks, guys.