Full Transcript for Mark interviews author Mark Malkoff.

in polite terms, that she was leaving the show. And yeah, very, very quickly, she became almost a household name. I mean, it was really the power of that Tonight Show, the people that, you know, were able to, to quit their jobs and, you know, go in from broke. Um, and then suddenly everybody, every agent, every manager wants to work with them. And, you know, within six months, this, this teenage kid, Freddie Prince has the number one sitcom in America, Chico and the man. And that was the power of Carson. 00:05:46 Speaker 3: Yeah. 00:05:48 Speaker 2: Uh, and of course it was Ed McMahon, the sidekick that when Jay Leno took over, that was the end of the sidekick, right? Nobody has that anymore. 00:05:56 Speaker 1: It was, Jay Leno initially was thinking about Phil Hartman from Saturday Night Live, the great late Phil Hartman, but it did not work out with that. It probably worked out better, but yeah, the sidekick was so important. They said, Ed and Johnny, they could basically read each other's thoughts and they were in sync so much, 95% of the time. Occasionally, Ed would overstep and he would have to grovel and apologize to Johnny like the mosquito bit. where Ed slapped his, what was it, Mark? You know better than I do. 00:06:27 Speaker 2: Oh, yeah, he said he was reading some study that mosquitoes only bite people who are very sexy. 00:06:34 Speaker 3: Yes. 00:06:35 Speaker 2: And then Carson was going to slap his wrist like he got a mosquito bite. But Ed beat him to it, and Carson glared at him. Ed took the joke. 00:06:42 Speaker 3: Oh, he was furious. 00:06:43 Speaker 1: Ed had to apologize, and Johnny always, for the years, would reference it. Ed knew where his meal ticket was, but yeah, everybody that I talked to that knew Ed loved the guy, but he, he knew how lucky he was to take it 30 years of employment. And then, you know, he was, he was representing something like a hundred products from Alpo to Budweiser. 00:07:05 Speaker 3: I mean, Carson thought it was ridiculous. 00:07:07 Speaker 1: This guy was taking advantage of, of, of his name, but Ed was a smart businessman up until he went broke. 00:07:14 Speaker 3: Unfortunately, of course. 00:07:16 Speaker 2: Hey, um, Carson, is the host of a game show in New York. Who do you trust? Five years. 00:07:21 Speaker 3: That's right. 00:07:22 Speaker 2: And he finally gets a tonight show and his announcer, his sidekick was Ed McMahon on the game show, but he wasn't going to take Ed to the tonight show. He had somebody else in mind. And so tell the story of how Ed ended up getting the job anyway. 00:07:35 Speaker 1: So, so Johnny was a game show host and on an ABC show. And he did not want to remind America by bringing Ed McMahon as game show announcer that he was a game show host. He wanted to show America he was somebody completely different. He wanted to bring his friend Hank Sims, who is an announcer in Los Angeles. And Hank did not want to relocate because the Tonight Show, NBC gave Johnny a

firm 26 weeks. 00:07:59 Speaker 3: That's all his contract was for. 00:08:00 Speaker 1: They did not have great faith that anybody could replace Jack Parr. And Hank Sims didn't want to relocate. So Ed McMahon did the smartest thing in his life. He took Johnny Carson and the wives out to Danny's Hideaway here in New York, got on his hands and knees and begged Johnny with tears down his face, you have to take me. 00:08:18 Speaker 3: I just bought a house in King of Prussia. Please, please, please. And Johnny was embarrassed and said, fine, Ed. 00:08:23 Speaker 2: Wait, you mean in the middle of a restaurant, Ed McMahon was on his hands and knees? 00:08:27 Speaker 1: And he got 30 years of employment and made the best power play of his entire life. And that was because everyone else was announced early. His band leader, Skitch Henderson, was announced very early, the producer of The Tonight Show. And they waited months to announce who the sidekick was going to be because Carson did not want to bring Ed. 00:08:49 Speaker 3: It did work out. 00:08:50 Speaker 1: I mean, they were so good with one another and, you know, they were very close here in New York and then in Burbank. And when they moved out in the seventies, they kind of were a little bit distant, but, you know, Johnny had a son that passed away tragically. And then Ed had a son that passed tragically and they kind of, um, got closer because of that. But, uh, to the end, I mean, yeah, there was nobody like the two of them when, you know, they, they, after the monologue, when they, nothing was rehearsed, they would just be talking at the desk. 00:09:17 Speaker 3: And a lot of times the best stuff happened. Thanksgiving's coming up. 00:09:21 Speaker 1: I mean, Ed McMahon and, or Johnny Carson and, and Doc Severins and talking about Thanksgiving. 00:09:25 Speaker 3: I mean, nothing funnier, all spontaneous. 00:09:28 Speaker 2: Yeah. I always liked the New York years better. That's a night show in New York. And it also was Johnny Carson and Ed. They were out every night at at Chili's, at Dangerfield's, at Michael's Pub, the Copa. It all changed when they went to California. 00:09:42 Speaker 1: Yeah, there was something really amazing. You would see Broadway and Jimmy Breslin with New York. And, you know, Johnny would wear these turtlenecks. And then everybody from Steve McQueen to the biggest movie stars all started dressing like Johnny. And then he started wearing those designer suits and made, you know, million cuz everyone wanted to look like Johnny Carter. 00:10:03 Speaker 3: But he influenced everything from fashion and in New. 00:10:06 Speaker 1: York, I mean, he'd go over to Yankee Stadium and pitch to Mickey Mantle and they would show that on the tonight show. He'd go to the polo grounds and be playing with the New York Jets quarterback and of jumping off out of airplanes. 00:10:17 Speaker 3: There was something really special about the New York Tonight Show. Yeah. 00:10:21 Speaker 2: Well, you've got to get the book. He's written a great book with a million stories. It's a fascinating book. It's called Love, Johnny Carson. You can get the book anywhere, Amazon, anyplace. The book's called Love, Johnny Carson. The Carson Podcast. Go listen to that. How many? 600 episodes? 00:10:40 Speaker 1: We did a lot of episodes, and I'm still talking to people that want to talk to me. And Terkel, who is Richard Harris's wife, went on with Johnny four or five times, and she just contacted me that she wants to go on and tell her story. And I mean, Johnny lifted her up in the air on the show, and it was one of the highlights of her career. So people really want to tell their stories. I mean, yeah, we talked to Carl Reiner three times. He put me in touch with Mel Brooks, and I went down to talk to him in Culver City. So just to hear from Mel talk, Mel Brooks talked about the very first show when he was a guest and getting Groucho Marx autograph. 00:11:15 Speaker 3: Yeah, we've collected these stories and I'm really, really happy. 00:11:18 Speaker 1: And you were on the Carson podcast a bunch of times because you knew Johnny Carson and you were a phenomenal guest and I'm grateful. 00:11:24 Speaker 2: Well, it's a great, every go listen to the Carson podcast. There's hundreds of episodes and there's the biggest stars, but listen to the secretary or the stagehand episodes. Sometimes they got the most fascinating stories. And then people can sign up for the sub stack. It's called Here's Johnny Carson. 00:11:43 Speaker 3: Yeah, the sub stack's been great. 00:11:45 Speaker 1: Every week we're putting up new articles about Johnny Carson and The Tonight Show. 00:11:51 Speaker 3: Especially the New York years. Can you believe that NBC erased almost most of the footage? I mean, I really want to bring people back. 00:12:00 Speaker 1: To what actually happened during those 1962 to 1972 years here in New York. 00:12:05 Speaker 2: Sign up for the Substack. Here's Johnny Carson. Now, the other thing is this Wednesday, 4 o'clock, Mark Malkoff will be doing a big Johnny Carson presentation, Museum of Broadcasting. It's called the Paley Center, 4 o'clock. It's on 52nd Street, the Paley Center. And people can come buy a ticket right then and there to the Paley Center? 00:12:23 Speaker 3: Yeah, just go to the museum. You can come to the Talk at 4. 00:12:25 Speaker 1: You can go to the exhibit. I'm going to be sticking around afterwards. I'll be down at the Johnny Carson desk. Please come and say hi. But, I mean, just the fact that you can go to a museum and actually, I mean, sit down at the desk and sit down at the couch where Bette Midler and Bob Hope and everyone sat. Normally, you go to a museum, there's ropes, there's stanchions. You can actually sit down, and it's history, and it's right there. 00:12:50 Speaker 2: You can sit at Johnny Carson's desk. So it's Wednesday, 4 o'clock. Mark Malkoff and a big Carson presentation. Paley Center, 4 o'clock Wednesday. And get the book, Love Johnny Carson. Mark Malkoff, thanks for being with us. Oh, thanks. 00:13:03 Speaker 3: It's so good talking to you. Thanks for being a pal, and we'll talk soon. All right. 00:13:06 Speaker 2: Take care. 00:13:07 Speaker 3: Thanks, my friend. Thanks. 00:13:08 Speaker 2: I just can't get enough of Johnny Carson stuff. Hey, don't forget at noon, Buck Saxton and Clay Travis do a great show. Then at 3 o'clock, the most listened to radio show in America, Sean Hannity. Don't forget, I'm here 9 to noon every day. And right before me, Curtis Lewa, Larry Menti on 710WOR.