TRANSCRIPT 🔗
Luke: Welcome to Lab Notes, the reflective companion to the Leadership Lab by The Colourworks. In these shorter episodes, and Lucy step back from the guest conversation, unpack what stood out, and explore the leadership lessons, patterns, and questions worth taking into your own leadership practice.
Lucy - Leadership Lab Host: Hello and welcome back to the Leadership Lab podcast by the Colourworks. We are doing episode four of the Lab Notes where I get to chat to Luke about the episode we've just heard from Glenn Turner.
Luke Wiltshire - Host: Hey Lucy, what an episode that was with Glen Wright. Love that conversation.
Lucy - Leadership Lab Host: I know it was great, it was great and I just can't believe we're coming to the end of series one, we've had four episodes, it's just been amazing.
Luke Wiltshire - Host: I know. When we thought about this podcast idea way back when, I you know, I always thought it'd be good, but I never knew it'd be this good. So I'm really proud and really pleased and lovely to get so many nice comments from people that have listened to the show. and I've thoroughly enjoyed doing doing it alongside you.
Lucy - Leadership Lab Host: It's been great and what I really love is that we've taken away so much from each episode. I feel like I've learned and grown through this process and I've actually just really loved it. It's just been such an enjoyable thing to do. So I'm really hoping that's kind of come across to the listeners as well and they've enjoyed it too.
Luke Wiltshire - Host: And a re a reminder, Lucy, that you wanted to meet how many ten outrageously inspiring people this year? So hopefully you've met four now.
Lucy - Leadership Lab Host: Well, and Luke, to be fair, I'm going to add you in, so I'm five, so I'm halfway there. So there we go. And of course, you know,
Luke Wiltshire - Host: well that's too kind. I'll p I'll pay you later.
Lucy - Leadership Lab Host: and then of course there's Claude, so anyway, yeah.
Luke Wiltshire - Host: so yeah, so series one of the leadership lab done, and series one then was all around self awareness because at the ColourWorks we believe massively that it all starts with self awareness, whether that be individuals, teams, organisations, the journey to performance is is real you know, it all starts from this self awareness. And we know from our experience, Lucy, right, that the best leaders, the best team members are those that are self aware.
Lucy - Leadership Lab Host: Absolutely, and that's why we do what we do and that's why we love working with people to unlock that self-awareness and then ultimately the potential that they have to access and how successful they can be for themselves and for their teams and I just love that. A successful team led by a great self-aware leader, there's no limit to what they can achieve so I think that's just so inspiring.
Luke Wiltshire - Host: Yeah, that's so true. So true. So series one, all about self awareness. We've had four full length episodes. So in episode one, we talked to Johnny Holden. So Johnny, really, really inspiring guy, ex actor, turned into coach, specializing in working with CEOs and men especially, but he talked to us about dreaming big. and what a first episode that was, right? Like I've
Lucy - Leadership Lab Host: Yeah.
Luke Wiltshire - Host: I took personally I took so many so many actions away from that. And one of the actions being you you need to act, you need to take an action. It's okay having a dream, but how are you acting on it? So thoroughly enjoyed episode one. So if you haven't done so already, go back and listen to episode one His leadership lab behaviour that he submitted to our periodic table was all around listening.
Lucy - Leadership Lab Host: second episode was with Nicholas Scott. She was brilliant and talked all about her experience and also particularly around coaching and the power of coaching your people to get great results. And her element for the periodic table of elements was curiosity and how we can ask just one more question and be curious to support our people and coach them really well.
Luke Wiltshire - Host: Lucy, I'm curious to know. have you expanded your question bank since listening to that episode?
Lucy - Leadership Lab Host: I've always been bit careful that I potentially ask too many questions but I do love asking questions. I love understanding more about people and I think what I've taken away from that actually is slowing down because I can go super fast and I think just slowing down and pausing and just really thinking about what's going on for the other person has been really, helpful. yeah, yeah.
Luke Wiltshire - Host: Yeah, absolutely. And then in episode three we talked to the brilliant Rachel Newman. So Rachel, really truly inspiring story about her career in the corporate world, working for organizations like IKEA. Rachel shared with us her own personal journey, someone who's really self aware about her own values and how they've shaped the decisions that she's made in her career, to the point of she r declined. What was her her ideal job on paper and then took a complete different path. So highly recommend you go back and listen to Rachel's episode where her leadership lab behaviour that she submitted to our periodic table was all about alignment, align with your values and and having true self awareness.
Lucy - Leadership Lab Host: amazing and then our fourth episode was with Glenn Turner who was really inspiring and he was talking about standards and about having high standards and when you have high standards that you keep yourself accountable to that you're able to be a great leader for others. Because actually we all look at our leaders, we don't just hear what they're saying, we watch how they work, how they live, and we take from that what we see. And so actually being true to yourself, acting with integrity in all walks of life is huge in being that strong leader that we want to be and we want to see as
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well.
Luke Wiltshire - Host: Yeah, and before we d dive into that a bit more then, Lucy, me and you chatting away as we do, wittering on about our ideas and thoughts from the last episode. if you're new to the podcast, you might not know that Lucy likes to remember every episode that we do by buying a prop or a little gift or something for herself to put on her desk as a bit of a visual reminder and an anchor to that conversation. Lucy, I'm I cannot wait over the summer holidays to find out what your item's gonna be for Glen's episode. So you're gonna have to tell me, I can't wait until the autumn, so please tell us more about your your item.
Lucy - Leadership Lab Host: Okay Luke, okay. So we all know that, so he talked a lot about standards, that was his big thing and that was his element for the periodic table. So we know that standards are a threshold that we put in place to guarantee a certain type of behavior or quality. A standard is also a flag, and so what I've bought is a string of flags to remind me about standards. But what I've also done is rather than hang them from left to right across my desk, I've hung them from floor to ceiling. Because the thing that I really loved about Glenn, when I challenged him about having high standards and I said to him, what happens when life throws you curve balls and you just can't reach the standards that you want to hit? And he said that it's really important to have a floor. So you know where you're trying to aim for, but you also have a floor and these are your non-negotiables and those are your standards you just don't relinquish even when life is super tough. And so hanging these flags from floor to ceilings reminds me that on some days it's gonna be great and then hit the ceiling and it's all gonna be perfect. days when things are really really tough, actually if I hit that floor standards, if I hit my non-negotiables, that's enough, that's good enough for that day and so just remembering those levels and just being the best we can with what life throws at us as well.
Luke Wiltshire - Host: Amazing. So your desk now encompasses a so wait a minute, let me see if I can remember. Some flags, floor to ceiling.
Lucy - Leadership Lab Host: Yep. Yes.
Luke Wiltshire - Host: a life ring, whatever you call those, yeah.
Lucy - Leadership Lab Host: Yes. Yeah.
Luke Wiltshire - Host: for Rachel's episode. it's got a mug with the word gin on it, which may or may not contain gin. That's up for staying
Lucy - Leadership Lab Host: Yes, we're staying curious.
Luke Wiltshire - Host: curious, love it. and then your first episode was the famous Claude, the gnome that you've purchased.
Lucy - Leadership Lab Host: you
Luke Wiltshire - Host: And when you're on client calls you you reference Claude and everyone thinks it's some sort of fancy LLM AI, but actually it's just a garden note.
Lucy - Leadership Lab Host: It's a great gardeno and it reminds me to dream big because Johnny talked about dreaming about ponds, which
Luke Wiltshire - Host: Mm-hmm.
Lucy - Leadership Lab Host: makes me laugh every time I think about it.
Luke Wiltshire - Host: So there we go, four episodes. let's dive into Glenn's episode then. I'm gonna start by asking you some questions, Lucy, because I'm really intrigued and curious to find out a little bit more about your key takeaways from the episode with Glenn. You already alluded to the fact that, you know, when he talked about standards. So tell me a little bit more about your your thoughts and your sort of takeaways since speaking with Glenn.
Lucy - Leadership Lab Host: Yeah, I really loved how he started. So he started by saying he worked in a cocktail bar and that they kept each other accountable. They had to make the perfect cocktail every time. And he said that his senior managers, even when there was 10 row of 10 people deep, if they didn't make the perfect cocktail, they would literally throw down the sink, which. kind of blew my mind a bit because A, you're wasting time kind of thing, you're also B, wasting ingredients, but their commitment to this kind of perfect standard or this high, high, high quality was so intense that that's what they did. And actually as a junior member of staff watching that, that was your level, that was your flaw, I guess, to create these great drinks. And so that was really, for me, what I heard from him that he kicked off his passion for quality and high standards. So that was just the first thing. Did you have any it's about the cocktail and the bar era.
Luke Wiltshire - Host: I'm just I'm just curious and conscious that you're talking about alcohol again, Lucy, but you know, let's
Lucy - Leadership Lab Host: You picked a guess, man.
Luke Wiltshire - Host: No, I agree with you. I think there's something really powerful and again I'm extremely passionate about I believe like we all there's a story, our life's a story, and we all end up doing something because of things that have happened to us in the past. And, you know, as I shared with you on the episode, I know Glenn. I've known Glenn for a while, but I didn't know that part of his story. And it explains a lot more about him that we didn't come on to, a lot more
Lucy - Leadership Lab Host: Okay.
Luke Wiltshire - Host: about his personal life and a lot more about his style as a coach and as a personal trainer, 'cause he does have high standards, but it's so interesting to think about, you know, early on in people's careers, right? Those early those early memories you have from your like first jobs or your earlier in your career, like they can really shape you. That's what I took away from it. Like they
Lucy - Leadership Lab Host: Yeah.
Luke Wiltshire - Host: can really shape who you who you become. You know, Glenn now runs a business which's all about standards, all about personal standards. And that's really been born from his early experience working in cocktail bars for a big chain.
Lucy - Leadership Lab Host: And what also really kind of blows
my mind also a little bit is like he started in that bar alcohol late night scene and he now works in the kind of fitness industry which is all about clean living and so what was fascinating for me was it was like it's not like one industry is better or worse than the other they're different and actually the standards you learn in one have been transferable for him into another. That was cool.
Luke Wiltshire - Host: Hm. Yeah, and I think if you're listening, just maybe reflect on that, right? Like think back to jobs that you've had and what are the standards you've learned. And maybe that's an exercise you can do away from this podcast. Maybe just, you know, pause, reflect, go for a walk, spend some time outside and reflect on the people that you've worked with previously, the jobs that you've done previously, how have they shaped your personal standards? I know I've know, I'm on that journey, right? I'm not finished yet at all. But it's really got me thinking a lot about what did I learn from each job? What did I learn about standards, about my own standards and my own values. And it sort of ties in with Rachel's episode, which is, you know, I can definitely reflect that I've left businesses and organizations and jobs when my standards or my values haven't aligned with the organization. So yeah.
Lucy - Leadership Lab Host: Yeah, and it's interesting that also, I think we always have a choice. I think sometimes we feel like we're stuck in a company that we don't agree with the values, but we feel like we can't leave, but actually we can. And actually he did a brave thing to step out and make that decision when he was about to start a young family and all of that, but he's done it and he's made a success of it because he's, I feel personally, because he's so committed to his standards, his values, and he obviously has a high work ethic. And actually that does pay off when you're consistent like that.
Luke Wiltshire - Host: Mm. Yeah, consistency. And I think you talking about knowing your flaw, right? Because we me and Glenn have had that conversation as well privately. but like knowing your flaw, it got me thinking a lot about and I can't remember who told me this, so I'm I'm not gonna be able to quote them, but I just remember someone saying to me once, like, It's about how you show up on your worst day. Like, if you think about that from a leadership lens, like how do you show up when y you're really stressed, when Everything's going wrong when every sing you know, if you work in an operational business like a bar or retail, you know, when the software goes down and you can't serve customers, when you're leading a bar and your s your staff sh your short staffed, you know, how do you actually show up on those days? 'Cause that's when you see people's flaw. That's where you see,
Lucy - Leadership Lab Host: Yeah. Yeah.
Luke Wiltshire - Host: you know, the stand the the minimum operating standards, I guess.
Lucy - Leadership Lab Host: Yeah, he did I
have to mention this because I I had to hold it together in the episode because he said he talked about his own floor and he said there are some days as long as I hit my protein I'm okay and in my head I just could see him punching a cow in the face and like obviously that is completely like what he meant I was like don't hit protein like that's not a good idea but obviously what he meant was like just in and also I like the fact he was like what I eat is gonna affect my performance what how I sleep is gonna affect my performance is that sort of like 1 % of everything which is has an impact on the whole and I thought that was really interesting and much more of holistic view than sometimes we take.
Luke Wiltshire - Host: Mm. Yeah, and we got on in the conversation, didn't we, to talking about the the art and the the skill of leaders really looking after themselves,
Lucy - Leadership Lab Host: Mm.
Luke Wiltshire - Host: and really taking care of themselves and setting a good standard for the people that they manage or lead. Because I think it's I think it's something that we often forget that when you're in a leadership position, people I think you know, people are looking at you even when you don't know they're looking at you. They're y
Lucy - Leadership Lab Host: Yeah, I agree.
Luke Wiltshire - Host: that they are making decisions about you. Their unconscious mind kicks in where they start making stories about who you are as a leader based on the behaviours and what they see from you as a leader.
Lucy - Leadership Lab Host: It's so true, if you personally as a leader are trying to push and promote wellbeing, but people watch you never ever take lunch, work crazy hours, never have time to go to the gym or spend super quality time with your family, you're just not showing what you're preaching and therefore the power is gone from your words because your actions are just speak louder, so yeah.
Luke Wiltshire - Host: Yeah, and it got us talking about judgmental, didn't it? Do you remember that point where yeah.
Lucy - Leadership Lab Host: Yes, yes, tell us more about that Luke, because you questioned him about judgement and I was like, what is Luke doing? Because you said, you not think you could come across as a judgemental to others if you have different values? So tell us more about that.
Luke Wiltshire - Host: Yeah, and I think right, permission from our guest is that we can challenge more Lucy, so I went for it this week, right? Yeah, I
Lucy - Leadership Lab Host: You did. I was impressed. You did actually go for it.
Luke Wiltshire - Host: and I think that's the whole point of this podcast, challenge, because when you challenge a little bit, you know, and go a bit deeper, and that's part of it real conversations, real people, under
Lucy - Leadership Lab Host: Yep. Yep.
Luke Wiltshire - Host: the microscope, going deeper than normal, like I think there is a risk when your standards may be s you know, here so high and you could be seen as being judgmental of others, whether that be that
Lucy - Leadership Lab Host: Bye.
Luke Wiltshire - Host: actually you're judg you're judging them for maybe having lower standards than you or higher standards than you. And if you take the scenario you just mentioned around wellbeing, like, actually, you know, could it be judgmental by saying, look at that person over there taking their lunch break. I don't believe in lunch break, gotta work harder. Like, that's that is to me, that's judgmental. And I know Glenn's really passionate about fitness. That's what he does outside of work. But it was so interesting to hear that he had done a bit of a three sixty on that, that he he openly admitted, didn't he, in the conversation that previously he would have been quite judgmental of leaders that perhaps didn't look after themselves. I think he mentioned like drinking full fat Coke in their lunch break. Like
Lucy - Leadership Lab Host: Yeah.
Luke Wiltshire - Host: like but now he comes to to it from a point of understanding and empathy and actually just because you're not maybe looking after that one part of yourself doesn't mean you're not looking after yourself and that there will be a reason.
Lucy - Leadership Lab Host: Yeah, that's so true. I often reference the kind iceberg model where we only ever see sometimes the tip of the iceberg, particularly when we first meet people or first start working with them. We only see that tip, we only see their actions, their behaviors, the results. It's very external. We don't know what's going on underneath and actually to withhold judgment and just say, I don't know what kind of morning they've had. I don't know what kind of life they've had. So I'm not going to judge. They're doing the best they can right now. And just to kind of walk alongside them and support them in that rather than judge them from afar is really important.
Luke Wiltshire - Host: I think it's really really important to understand that people aren't their behaviours. So you know like Lucy isn't stressed. Sh Lucy isn't a stressy person, she's acting stressed. And if you can separate the two, it makes you have
Lucy - Leadership Lab Host: Yeah.
Luke Wiltshire - Host: a bit more makes you have a bit more empathy, I think. Like, you know, I'm just gonna pluck a random name, Bob. Let's go everyone always goes Bob. Bob
Lucy - Leadership Lab Host: Do you know, I actually have a Bob, uncle. I have an uncle called Bob. Bob is literally my uncle.
Luke Wiltshire - Host: but let's just say Bob's angry. Well, actually, Bob is acting angry and there's a reason why he's acting angry, and if you can sort of split them apart, it really helps you as a individual to s to come at places from a pla come at come at it from a place of empathy, I guess. Like, why are they acting that way? What's going on for them? I'm curious to understand a little bit more about them because people aren't their behaviours. It's just it's a signal, it's it's a signal to you as the as the
employee, as the teammate, to understand that maybe something's not. How maybe something's not good for them at the moment and what can you do to help them?
Lucy - Leadership Lab Host: Do you actually live that up? Do you make sure that you consciously say, Bob is acting, and do you actually do that in real life?
Luke Wiltshire - Host: it's something I'm constantly practising. I n
Lucy - Leadership Lab Host: I don't know. Yeah, I never thought that way,
Luke Wiltshire - Host: I recognise in myself, Lucy, that when I'm stressed I can get quite judgmental.
Lucy - Leadership Lab Host: Okay.
Luke Wiltshire - Host: so actually it's a signal for me. I use it like a flag, like a a little red flag of actually that's a signal. I'm probably coming up from a place of survival and this is not, you know, I'm being a bit judgmental of others. Actually if I can reframe it, if I can zoom out a little bit and go I wonder why. I wonder what's going on, like
Lucy - Leadership Lab Host: Yeah, yeah.
Luke Wiltshire - Host: you said, under the iceberg, what's happening for that person. And
Lucy - Leadership Lab Host: Hmm.
Luke Wiltshire - Host: I think that was the conversation we were having with Glenn, right? He mentioned I loved, loved the part where he talked about his wife and his wife likes to go on her phone like ten minutes before bed, and that he used to get really annoyed by it, used to get really stressed by it, because it's one of his standards, no screen time before, you know, forty five minutes before bed. But actually
Lucy - Leadership Lab Host: Yeah.
Luke Wiltshire - Host: when you when he explained when you understand it, it's the fact that That's the only time she gets all day to look at to look at her phone and it's really important for her to connect
Lucy - Leadership Lab Host: Yeah.
Luke Wiltshire - Host: with her family and friends 'cause she's been looking after the kids and you know, it makes you really under s look at it from a different viewpoint.
Lucy - Leadership Lab Host: That was so polarizing for me because I was like, wow, when you look at it from that perspective, she's actually like serving other people by checking in on other people. It's not that she's just trying to have bad phone habits. She's actually messaging people, checking on them. I thought, although that was huge, it was massive. That was great. Yeah.
Luke Wiltshire - Host: And I think if you're a listener, if you're if you're listening and you're a leader or you're in the you're in a leadership role, I would really urge everybody to think about what are their standards and and maybe just do a bit of an internal audit with yourself on like, am I enforcing these standards on everybody else? Do my team know about these standards that I have? Because he mentioned a lot, didn't he, about bringing people with you in business? And just because they're your standards doesn't mean they have to be everybody else's. But I think there's a a missing piece of the puzzle with which leaders don't often articulate their standards and the fact that they're theirs and they don't have to be yours, but they're theirs. And I think you're slowly starting to see this. I know some organizations where they put things on the bottom of the email signature, like, just because I reply at ten o'clock at night doesn't mean you need to. Like it's quite interesting, right? It's like it's it that's
Lucy - Leadership Lab Host: Yeah.
Luke Wiltshire - Host: that's someone defining their standards. Like, this is who
Lucy - Leadership Lab Host: Yeah.
Luke Wiltshire - Host: I am. And again, old
Lucy - Leadership Lab Host: Yeah.
Luke Wiltshire - Host: me old me would have gone, That's rubbish. You're just you're just putting that out there because you want to show everybody that you're busy and that you work half to ten PM But actually maybe it's because that's the time where they do their best thinking. Maybe that's the time where they do their best you know, they've got the peace that they can actually answer emails from a real place of empathy.
Lucy - Leadership Lab Host: Yeah, I think that's so true what you're saying. what I'd love people to take away is as a leader, go away and work out what is your ceiling, like what's your, you're gonna gold star standards, what is your floor, and then potentially like a couple of levels in between that. So you kind of, and also as a gauge, like how am doing today? Well I've hit three out of my four standards, so actually I'm doing pretty well. But then also, something that you could do as a leader is actually get your team together in a room, and as a team decide on what is our floor, what is our ceiling, and where are we in between. And then as a team, you're super committed and accountable to those standards and you're never going to drop below your floor because that's what you've signed up to and that's what you're passionate about as a team.
Luke Wiltshire - Host: Hm, love that. Really, really great idea, Lucy. And I to add on to that, I also think write them down. Like the science
Lucy - Leadership Lab Host: Yes.
Luke Wiltshire - Host: behind putting things in pen and paper is much more pa you know, so much more powerful than having them in your head. and when you share
Lucy - Leadership Lab Host: Yes. And almost like sign up and like sign your name against it and like all, yeah.
Luke Wiltshire - Host: Yeah. And when you share your standards with a team, then like you say, you can hold each other accountable, right?
Lucy - Leadership Lab Host: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, it was really good.
Luke Wiltshire - Host: So So what a conversation. I mean, I'm gonna go back and listen to it again. I've listened to all of our episodes at least twice, I'm not gonna lie, because I think
Lucy - Leadership Lab Host: later.
Luke Wiltshire - Host: it really helps you to see things differently. And, you know,
Lucy - Leadership Lab Host: Yeah.
Luke Wiltshire - Host: every time you listen to it you'll hear something slightly
different. So yeah, I've
Lucy - Leadership Lab Host: I keep thinking about new things about the different episodes and taking away different things and how it relates to what I'm going through that week or you know, it's been really really good.
Luke Wiltshire - Host: Hm. But but now we have to wait. We have to wait a whole summer break before we get the opportunity to sit down with another four outrageously inspiring people, Lucy.
Lucy - Leadership Lab Host: I can't wait, I can't wait. And it's a great opportunity over the summer to, as you say, re-listen to the episodes, to share them with colleagues or friends that might like them or find them helpful, but also to like and subscribe on whichever platform you're on so that you get notified about the new series that's coming up in the autumn, which we can't wait for.
Luke Wiltshire - Host: And on that and on that note, let's let's give the listeners a bit of a tease to what to expect. So this series has all been around self awareness, Lucy. In our next series, I'm really pleased to announce that our next series is going to be all around mindset and leadership and what that means. And I know we've probably had some of the conversations we've already had have gone into mindset, 'cause that's natural. But for us at the ColourWorks, we believe that self awareness is always the starting point. And mindset for us is about, you know, showing up as your best self, like understanding what causes you stress and then really managing self so that you can perform. You know, you can perform when it's tough, you can perform when budgets are cut, you can perform when staff are you know, and team members are struggling. It's about that mindset piece. So for us it's like a bridge between self awareness and performance. Mindset is the bridge. So I'm really looking forward to our second series already.
Lucy - Leadership Lab Host: I can't wait because you often can't control what happens to you but you can control how you deal with that situation and if you look at really successful people it's often that they've managed to come back, bounce back, know, take the bad circumstances and become stronger and more resilient through it to then become a winner or super successful, achieve their goal. So I think it's such a game changer for all of us, it's almost unlocking what we've already got inside us but through that mindset path and I can't wait, it's going to be amazing.
Luke Wiltshire - Host: Hm, yeah. I like to refer to it as like your inner operating system. Like,
Lucy - Leadership Lab Host: Mmm.
Luke Wiltshire - Host: you know, if you can you know I'll share with you, Lucy, something that I share with a lot of the clients I work with is like your phone has an upgrade every couple of months, your laptop has an upgrade every couple of months, but your mind set doesn't if you don't plug it in.
Lucy - Leadership Lab Host: Yeah, I see.
Luke Wiltshire - Host: and this is what I'm so passionate about, so I can't wait for episod series two. I've loved epis series one obviously, but
Lucy - Leadership Lab Host: Yeah, yeah.
Luke Wiltshire - Host: I'm extremely Yeah, we're extremely excited to do series two with some fantastic guests that we already have lined up. So yeah, it's been an absolute pleasure doing series one with you, Lucy, from from all of us at the ColourWorks. We hope you're enjoying the podcast. And as Lucy said, we really appreciate if you like, subscribe, listen to the podcast and share it, that would be brilliant. So from all of us at the ColourWorks, thank you ever so much for listening to series one of the Leadership Lab.
Luke: Thanks for spending time with us in the Leadership Lab. We hope you're leaving with one insight, one question, or one experiment to try in your own leadership practice. The Leadership Lab is brought to you by The Colourworks, helping people, teams, and organisations work better together. See you next time, back in the lab.