Full Transcript for Array Digital: Driving Law Firm Success Through Marketing & Strategy

00:04:04.560 the wintertime, it's a it's a It reminds me of 77 00:04:04.599 --> 00:04:07.840 the movie Jaws, like the small town that the movie 78 00:04:07.919 --> 00:04:12.919 was in Jaws, where everything is evolved around tourism, which 79 00:04:12.960 --> 00:04:16.759 is only like you know, May to September. So if 80 00:04:16.759 --> 00:04:18.920 you go there in the winter, fall or spring, it's 81 00:04:19.000 --> 00:04:22.319 it's pretty quiet. My house there is on a very 82 00:04:22.519 --> 00:04:25.199 quiet part of town, so yeah, you can. You can 83 00:04:25.240 --> 00:04:28.560 go there, hang out, have a fire. You feel like 84 00:04:28.560 --> 00:04:31.680 you're in a cabin pretty much. So it's really good 85 00:04:31.680 --> 00:04:33.279 for that kind of stuff. I go there to go hunting, 86 00:04:34.279 --> 00:04:37.079 duck hunt and deer hilting things like that, so good 87 00:04:37.079 --> 00:04:40.800 fishing there too. So yeah, I don't know if I'm 88 00:04:40.879 --> 00:04:42.959 maybe a pattern, but it's tough in a place that 89 00:04:43.600 --> 00:04:45.399 if I can go up there by myself sometimes with 90 00:04:45.439 --> 00:04:48.279 the dogs, then I'll definitely go. 91 00:04:49.040 --> 00:04:53.360 That's pretty cool. And so I mean I'm just curious 92 00:04:53.639 --> 00:04:56.439 how you got into the old I'm not going to 93 00:04:56.519 --> 00:04:58.079 go into a lifetime hisssory with you, but it just 94 00:04:58.199 --> 00:05:00.560 was an interesting fact about the island that you came from. 95 00:05:01.000 --> 00:05:03.000 I've been repeated again, but I'd mess it up and 96 00:05:03.040 --> 00:05:05.240 say a curse word. So but that's cool. Like I 97 00:05:05.279 --> 00:05:07.079 actually like you to spell it so we can look 98 00:05:07.120 --> 00:05:11.879 it up. And it's shinky tig, shinky tig. 99 00:05:11.920 --> 00:05:17.079 It's c h I shake it t e a g 100 00:05:17.240 --> 00:05:20.560 u e shake it to Indian. All the names are 101 00:05:20.600 --> 00:05:27.040 Indian names. There's watch a prig acid, Tigun. 102 00:05:26.920 --> 00:05:29.519 Acid tis the island people just drop acid. Listen to 103 00:05:29.560 --> 00:05:32.959 some medi m and what's the other one pot of 104 00:05:34.000 --> 00:05:34.720 what's the pot of what? 105 00:05:35.399 --> 00:05:36.959 There's watch a preg. 106 00:05:39.040 --> 00:05:44.040 Like watch watch pigs dance. Yes, so that's cool. What 107 00:05:44.160 --> 00:05:45.639 else that's really cool? 108 00:05:46.040 --> 00:05:49.360 Go on to google and google google Eastern Shore of 109 00:05:49.439 --> 00:05:52.360 Virginia and it's just strip, this little strip of Virginia 110 00:05:53.120 --> 00:05:55.560 that no one even knows exists. Some maths don't even 111 00:05:55.639 --> 00:05:56.000 show it. 112 00:05:56.439 --> 00:05:59.480 Wow, are there boats? Is it a boating community too? 113 00:05:59.680 --> 00:06:04.319 Or no? Yeah? Boats? Waterman, there's orsters and clams. 114 00:06:03.879

--> 00:06:06.000 And yeah, you said fish, it's right. 115 00:06:05.920 --> 00:06:09.639 By Maryland, so it's, uh, Maryland's close by, so it's 116 00:06:09.800 --> 00:06:15.480 you know, you know, crabs and seafood stuff like that. Cool. 117 00:06:15.680 --> 00:06:18.319 I'm gonna definitely look that up and probably a place 118 00:06:18.360 --> 00:06:21.720 that that sounds like a cool place to explore. So 119 00:06:21.839 --> 00:06:23.839 tell me just a little bit. You've been kind of 120 00:06:23.879 --> 00:06:26.720 in the marketing space for what almost twenty years now. 121 00:06:26.839 --> 00:06:29.160 Yeah, I started, you know, I started dabbling with like 122 00:06:29.160 --> 00:06:31.959 websites and stuff like that in the early two thousands, 123 00:06:32.000 --> 00:06:36.720 and then I went into a kind of an engineering position, 124 00:06:37.600 --> 00:06:39.240 not sure what I wanted to do, so I went 125 00:06:39.279 --> 00:06:41.240 to I was a C student. I went to like 126 00:06:41.279 --> 00:06:45.800 a trade school to learn drafting AutoCAD and actually have 127 00:06:45.839 --> 00:06:49.879 a scale on a desk right here. So I still 128 00:06:50.360 --> 00:06:53.839 like to draw and build stuff, but I decided I 129 00:06:53.839 --> 00:06:56.839 had to be in the computers somewhere some way, right, 130 00:06:57.319 --> 00:06:59.519 And so I started making websites just for fun. I 131 00:06:59.560 --> 00:07:03.639 started make websites for final projects for school, and I 132 00:07:03.720 --> 00:07:06.040 always got a better score than everyone in the class 133 00:07:06.040 --> 00:07:08.560 because I'd say, hey, I didn't just write a paper, 134 00:07:08.560 --> 00:07:11.240 but I built a website to go with it. And 135 00:07:11.279 --> 00:07:15.199 so that's kind of how it started. Well, and behold, 136 00:07:15.199 --> 00:07:18.879 I ended up in a room full of entrepreneurs. One day, 137 00:07:20.120 --> 00:07:23.680 as a young employee of this engineering company, some rando 138 00:07:23.680 --> 00:07:25.800 persons said, hey, should come check this group out, and 139 00:07:25.839 --> 00:07:28.439 I went and checked it out, and I just ended 140 00:07:28.519 --> 00:07:31.240 up in this board meeting of this technology group. It 141 00:07:31.360 --> 00:07:36.920 was actually like a technology council kind of group, and 142 00:07:36.959 --> 00:07:40.759 they're like, hey, hey, you, what do you do? So 143 00:07:40.800 --> 00:07:43.959 I didn't want to say I did engineering work. I said, well, 144 00:07:44.160 --> 00:07:49.199 I designed websites. And this is like two thousand and three, right, 145 00:07:49.240 --> 00:07:51.839 two thousand and four maybe, And of course everybody's like, 146 00:07:51.920 --> 00:07:55.040 holy crap, I need a website. You can build websites, 147 00:07:55.160 --> 00:08:00.199 And so just started talking to all these people and 148 00:08:00.399 --> 00:08:02.560 I just kind of got the bug and was like, well,

shit, 149 00:08:02.600 --> 00:08:06.199 I'd rather do this than what I'm doing. And within 150 00:08:06.279 --> 00:08:09.920 six months I quit and started my own company in 151 00:08:09.959 --> 00:08:14.360 two thousand and six, doing local you know, marketing websites 152 00:08:14.560 --> 00:08:18.279 for local businesses. One of my first clients was a 153 00:08:18.360 --> 00:08:21.399 law firm and just still a client of mine today. 154 00:08:21.720 --> 00:08:26.680 Actually that's quite a long time. I guess, never boy design, never, 155 00:08:27.240 --> 00:08:30.399 you know, not law firms. But so over time we 156 00:08:30.399 --> 00:08:34.200 started doing SEO on top of websites, We started making 157 00:08:34.200 --> 00:08:38.000 logos and brands and kind of anything that any company needed. 158 00:08:38.159 --> 00:08:41.440 But we had breweries, we had restaurants, we had hospitals, 159 00:08:41.559 --> 00:08:44.440 we had the US Army was a client at one point, 160 00:08:46.000 --> 00:08:48.720 law firms, you name it. So we just kind of 161 00:08:48.720 --> 00:08:54.840 became the local, you know, the local marketing company until 162 00:08:54.879 --> 00:08:56.480 that didn't work anymore for us. 163 00:08:56.679 --> 00:08:59.919 So that's that's kind of interesting. And I think I 164 00:09:00.000 --> 00:09:02.480 I spoke to you a partner about how you end 165 00:09:02.559 --> 00:09:06.600 up getting into a niche right and then your niche down. 166 00:09:06.639 --> 00:09:07.960 I don't kind of want to go into all that 167 00:09:08.000 --> 00:09:09.960 again unless you want to, but like it was interesting, 168 00:09:10.000 --> 00:09:12.240 you get into the niche and it's funny now you're 169 00:09:12.240 --> 00:09:17.279 in that space. I do think it's interesting. I do 170 00:09:17.320 --> 00:09:19.960 have an interesting question for you, though. You know, there's 171 00:09:20.000 --> 00:09:22.200 been a move now with a lot of private equity 172 00:09:22.240 --> 00:09:25.759 coming into law firms. They've also entered the SEO space 173 00:09:27.200 --> 00:09:32.440 and some there are multiple owners of SEO companies that 174 00:09:32.480 --> 00:09:33.559 are now selling. 175 00:09:34.960 --> 00:09:35.279 For sure. 176 00:09:35.279 --> 00:09:36.919 I don't know if you want to address that or not, 177 00:09:37.039 --> 00:09:39.440 but I find it interesting that PE is coming into 178 00:09:40.440 --> 00:09:42.440 SEO marketing now like everything else. 179 00:09:43.519 --> 00:09:47.600 Yeah, it's something I'm pretty I guess, pretty dialed into, 180 00:09:48.000 --> 00:09:51.919 pretty up to speed on. It's something that I feel 181 00:09:51.960 --> 00:09:55.279 like me and my partner have actually been you know, 182 00:09:55.360 --> 00:10:00.519 fairly well aware and dialed into the PE space, understanding 183 00:10:00.559 --> 00:10:04.759 it right and learning more about it and knowing what's 184 00:10:04.799 --> 00:10:07.480 going on. And we

have a relationship with with a 185 00:10:07.559 --> 00:10:10.440 p from that. You know, we talked to it that 186 00:10:10.440 --> 00:10:14.039 actually just bought one of our competitors, and that competitor 187 00:10:14.080 --> 00:10:16.759 I know very well, and they actually told me before 188 00:10:16.759 --> 00:10:20.879 they even announced it. Yeah, it's interesting. I think there's 189 00:10:20.919 --> 00:10:23.200 good and bad and that they're not all created equal. 190 00:10:23.440 --> 00:10:27.080 Some PE com do things differently. So I think if 191 00:10:27.200 --> 00:10:29.879 if you're a law firm or if you're an SEO company, whatever, 192 00:10:31.559 --> 00:10:33.120 if you're going to make that exit and that's the 193 00:10:33.159 --> 00:10:36.159 way you're going to want to do it, you know, 194 00:10:36.240 --> 00:10:39.039 just consider how they do business and how they do things, 195 00:10:39.080 --> 00:10:41.639 because they're not all the same. There's a great book. 196 00:10:42.480 --> 00:10:44.080 I'm not sure if I have it behind me amount, 197 00:10:44.120 --> 00:10:48.440 but there's a book on private equity that lays out 198 00:10:48.559 --> 00:10:52.240 exactly what it's like, what the experience is like, and 199 00:10:52.840 --> 00:10:54.519 what to look for, the good, the bad, the ugly. 200 00:10:55.399 --> 00:10:58.679 So you know, some will get bought, like the SEO company, 201 00:10:58.720 --> 00:11:00.639 they'll get bought and then just say hey, now, you're 202 00:11:00.720 --> 00:11:04.080 this company, like Scorpion does this, Hey, now you're a 203 00:11:04.080 --> 00:11:08.039 Scorpion client and then have the clients leave. But there's 204 00:11:08.039 --> 00:11:10.799 certain ways to do it, I think. And in the 205 00:11:10.840 --> 00:11:12.840 case of like Jason Hennessy, he's a friend of mine, 206 00:11:13.200 --> 00:11:15.360 he just sold out. He's told me all of it, 207 00:11:15.360 --> 00:11:19.080 he's become public about it. He's got to still the 208 00:11:19.120 --> 00:11:22.039 helm he has invested back in. They didn't change the name, 209 00:11:22.360 --> 00:11:27.080 he's stole the face and I haven't really seen it. 210 00:11:27.120 --> 00:11:30.039 Sounds like they've been growing since that. So yeah, I 211 00:11:30.080 --> 00:11:33.480 think it's just you know, how's it affecting your client 212 00:11:33.480 --> 00:11:37.039 and your staff, your employees in that or is it 213 00:11:37.120 --> 00:11:38.240 just going to serve you the owner? 214 00:11:39.000 --> 00:11:42.639 So let's let's talk about that, because what what should 215 00:11:42.759 --> 00:11:47.320 law firms be aware of when when they find out 216 00:11:47.600 --> 00:11:51.559 that their SEO company has gone to private equity? Because 217 00:11:51.840 --> 00:11:53.840 that book is a good resource. I'm gonna probably read 218 00:11:53.879 --> 00:11:56.159 it myself just in general. I think it's a great book. 219 00:11:56.159 --> 00:11:56.759 But find it. 220 00:11:57.159 --> 00:12:00.679 Yeah, but yeah, you can send it to us and 221 00:12:00.679 --> 00:12:02.960 if you get it and your memory strikes you before 222 00:12:03.000 --> 00:12:05.960 the show, we can leave it in the show notes, 223 00:12:06.039 --> 00:12:07.720 or you can just repeat it pre you leave. But 224 00:12:08.759 --> 00:12:12.000 what should law firm owners consider because most are so busy. 225 00:12:12.039 --> 00:12:14.759 But the ones that are dialed into their practice that 226 00:12:14.799 --> 00:12:17.759 they're you know, they're not they're they're not really running 227 00:12:17.759 --> 00:12:20.759 their firm just on top. And even for people that 228 00:12:20.879 --> 00:12:24.080 are actually for everyone, even the guy that's with a 229 00:12:24.120 --> 00:12:26.960 small little website with an SEO company, to the guy 230 00:12:27.000 --> 00:12:29.960 that's spending ten twenty thirty grand a month or more, 231 00:12:30.960 --> 00:12:33.120 what are the things that they can specifically look out for. 232 00:12:33.559 --> 00:12:36.320 They may not have the time to read the private 233 00:12:36.320 --> 00:12:39.360 equity book, so what would be the things that you 234 00:12:39.399 --> 00:12:43.159 would say, what's the conversation you should have, who should 235 00:12:43.159 --> 00:12:49.000 you have the conversation with, and what are the concerns 236 00:12:49.000 --> 00:12:51.759 and what is the time frame that you think that 237 00:12:51.879 --> 00:12:56.039 someone will feel the impact of anything of an SEO firm, 238 00:12:56.399 --> 00:12:59.480 pe firm taking out SEO because for the end user, 239 00:12:59.519 --> 00:13:02.279 the lawyer and usually care just wants the results. 240 00:13:02.360 --> 00:13:05.399 But yeah, it's great questions. I think it's a great question. 241 00:13:05.440 --> 00:13:09.480 I think you know how we do business here, right, 242 00:13:09.559 --> 00:13:14.399 it's you know, we have the result, right, which is 243 00:13:14.639 --> 00:13:17.200 what the law firm warks, and then you have the 244 00:13:17.240 --> 00:13:21.840 other things like communication, results, expectations. We can control that 245 00:13:21.879 --> 00:13:25.360 side of things. So it's knowing what the firms wanting, 246 00:13:25.519 --> 00:13:29.200 being proactive, so the results won't always will never just 247 00:13:29.240 --> 00:13:31.320 win by itself that you have have the other things. 248 00:13:31.679 --> 00:13:34.799 So I would say, if you know your SEO company 249 00:13:34.919 --> 00:13:39.440 just got purchased, you know it shouldn't be like oh crap, 250 00:13:39.600 --> 00:13:44.440 like cancel the contract situation, but you should definitely do 251 00:13:44.519 --> 00:13:47.399 some some research and say, okay, I heard you all 252 00:13:47.559 --> 00:13:50.240 got purchased. And they'll probably send out some kind of 253 00:13:50.320 --> 00:13:55.000 letter telling you. But

I'll say this, odds are that 254 00:13:55.000 --> 00:13:57.399 that happened a month or two prior to you know it. 255 00:13:58.559 --> 00:14:02.480 They're not going to tell you. The day of staff 256 00:14:03.200 --> 00:14:06.639 on the SEO company's side might not even have known 257 00:14:07.559 --> 00:14:11.679 until the day they announced it to the clients, which 258 00:14:12.039 --> 00:14:14.159 you know can call some shake up. Now again, I'm 259 00:14:14.159 --> 00:14:17.399 not sure you know how this happens with every situation 260 00:14:19.399 --> 00:14:21.960 you also, I think the worst way I think is 261 00:14:21.960 --> 00:14:25.840 where it's like, hey, you're now with this other company, 262 00:14:26.639 --> 00:14:28.799 and that's going to be more of a red flag 263 00:14:28.840 --> 00:14:32.519 for me is if like hennessee again, good friend of mine, 264 00:14:32.919 --> 00:14:36.320 they're purchased, you're keeping your same people. I'm still here. 265 00:14:37.519 --> 00:14:42.000 Account managers probably stayed the same, the work, the whole 266 00:14:42.039 --> 00:14:46.399 company went with the deal, versus am I getting bought, 267 00:14:46.600 --> 00:14:50.000 contract bought and shipped over to someone else where. They're 268 00:14:50.039 --> 00:14:53.879 going to do things differently, different processes, different systems, and 269 00:14:53.960 --> 00:14:55.919 so if you have really good SEO and it's working 270 00:14:55.960 --> 00:14:59.240 great for you and you get pushed into some other 271 00:15:00.039 --> 00:15:08.279 agencies processes, you can expect some some turbulence. I would say, so, 272 00:15:08.320 --> 00:15:10.840 I think really just sit down and say, I heard 273 00:15:10.879 --> 00:15:14.240 you sold. I got some questions. One, well, I still 274 00:15:14.279 --> 00:15:16.960 have my points of contact. Number two, I have my 275 00:15:17.000 --> 00:15:21.679 same team. Number three are you exiting? And this is 276 00:15:21.960 --> 00:15:24.120 you know, what's the plan for the next ninety sixty 277 00:15:24.720 --> 00:15:25.840 or sixty ninety days? 278 00:15:26.879 --> 00:15:29.480 Look like, yeah, I think that's good, And I think 279 00:15:29.480 --> 00:15:31.879 it's a good question because I think it's not just 280 00:15:31.960 --> 00:15:34.120 one guy selling. There's going to be multiple people because 281 00:15:34.120 --> 00:15:36.919 as you know, for example, you see a friend selling, 282 00:15:37.399 --> 00:15:40.720 they're like, oh, that worked out, and it's something that's 283 00:15:40.799 --> 00:15:43.720 on the table. Any smart entrepreneur is going to consider 284 00:15:44.440 --> 00:15:47.799 those things. So for clients, they've got to be smart 285 00:15:47.879 --> 00:15:49.960 about it. Also, they got to kind of understand. And 286 00:15:50.320 --> 00:15:53.159 I think that's a good framework because the worst thing, 287 00:15:54.399 --> 00:15:58.320 you know, there were major buyouts of law firms in 288 00:15:58.399 --> 00:16:03.399 England by I believe it was a firm in Australia, 289 00:16:03.440 --> 00:16:07.519 and they try to impose their systems that it was 290 00:16:07.600 --> 00:16:10.679 really really difficult. The major partners a lot of these 291 00:16:10.679 --> 00:16:13.759 firms got bought out, so they didn't really give a shit. 292 00:16:13.919 --> 00:16:16.799 They still were there, but they already got their money, 293 00:16:16.840 --> 00:16:20.000 so they're kind of like, you know, not my problem anymore. 294 00:16:20.879 --> 00:16:23.200 And so I mean it just that dials down to 295 00:16:23.279 --> 00:16:28.600 the clients potentially, so or the execution. On the flip 296 00:16:28.639 --> 00:16:30.600 side of that, you got private equity money coming in, 297 00:16:31.159 --> 00:16:35.399 and they're not just an acquisition for acquisition's sake, you know, 298 00:16:35.519 --> 00:16:40.240 marketing and sales, but also building the infrastructure out in 299 00:16:40.279 --> 00:16:44.039 a way that a smaller SEO company can't do. It 300 00:16:44.039 --> 00:16:47.039 could benefit the client obviously with best of class stuff 301 00:16:47.600 --> 00:16:51.279 in theory, but there also could be that they buy 302 00:16:51.320 --> 00:16:54.879 these SEO companies out and merge them all at some 303 00:16:54.960 --> 00:16:57.519 point where the private equity firms do deals with each other, 304 00:16:59.000 --> 00:17:02.879 which see yeah, roll up. But I haven't seen that yet, 305 00:17:02.919 --> 00:17:06.440 but I wouldn't be surprised if that ultimately happened. 306 00:17:07.160 --> 00:17:11.240 It for sure. I think that's kind of always their 307 00:17:11.279 --> 00:17:14.640 plan at some degree is to buy, build, up and 308 00:17:14.680 --> 00:17:17.440 then resell at a bigger package. 309 00:17:17.519 --> 00:17:17.640 Right. 310 00:17:17.759 --> 00:17:20.559 So, but actually I want to jump on to one 311 00:17:20.599 --> 00:17:22.759 point you made. Yeah, this this could be a good 312 00:17:22.799 --> 00:17:25.079 thing for you, depending on what company you're with with 313 00:17:25.720 --> 00:17:29.759 and what results you had. The new uputy money coming 314 00:17:29.759 --> 00:17:33.880 in might say, hey, are the clients get one they need? Well, no, 315 00:17:34.039 --> 00:17:37.400 because we you know, we weren't able to provide more 316 00:17:37.480 --> 00:17:41.000 and our you know, our costs, you know, our break 317 00:17:41.039 --> 00:17:43.279 even numbers were here. Hey, we have a crap ton 318 00:17:43.279 --> 00:17:45.799 of money to inject. Let's get the clients what they need. 319 00:17:46.160 --> 00:17:48.079 I could see that being a situation where maybe you 320 00:17:48.160 --> 00:17:54.720 see improvement, increase services, new offerings on the good side. 321 00:17:54.839 --> 00:17:55.039 Right. 322 00:17:55.880 --> 00:17:58.680 The other side is they want to just buy clothes 323 00:17:58.799

--> 00:18:02.720 and and sign on as many clients as possible and 324 00:18:02.880 --> 00:18:06.400 then roll out. You're kind of leaving someone else to 325 00:18:06.440 --> 00:18:09.880 pick it up. So yeah, I think you know, it 326 00:18:09.880 --> 00:18:12.039 could go it could go for better. 327 00:18:14.039 --> 00:18:18.559 Yeah, but it's just it's a you know, it's the 328 00:18:18.680 --> 00:18:22.799 you know a lot of companies are operating on business systems, 329 00:18:22.839 --> 00:18:26.319 which definitely more efficient but also more attractive to private equity, 330 00:18:28.160 --> 00:18:30.519 even though they may even have better systems put in place. 331 00:18:30.640 --> 00:18:35.160 But if if PE is usually about the dollars and cents. 332 00:18:35.160 --> 00:18:39.200 So if they're caring about the clients, they're caring about 333 00:18:39.200 --> 00:18:41.960 the clients for a roll up later on. And that 334 00:18:42.160 --> 00:18:44.519 is like you said, there's good private equity and bad 335 00:18:44.559 --> 00:18:47.519 private equity, but at the end of the day they 336 00:18:47.599 --> 00:18:50.279 are I always think, like, one of the things I 337 00:18:50.279 --> 00:18:52.759 think is a concern is you know, in your business, 338 00:18:53.359 --> 00:18:56.000 it's funny you're the owner. You're not the one doing 339 00:18:56.039 --> 00:18:58.680 the day to day shit. You're the face. You meet 340 00:18:58.720 --> 00:19:02.279 people somewhere in luencers, somewhere fifty to one hundred, two 341 00:19:02.359 --> 00:19:06.119 hundred seat firms. You got to give them more land time. 342 00:19:06.839 --> 00:19:10.160 You know, a lot of that. The small guy ship 343 00:19:10.240 --> 00:19:12.519 may go out the door with the pe like we're 344 00:19:12.640 --> 00:19:15.559 forty seats, but ultimately, at the end of the day, 345 00:19:15.920 --> 00:19:18.319 like we may not be as important to one hundred, 346 00:19:18.319 --> 00:19:22.000 two hundred, three hundred, four hundred, five hundred, even though 347 00:19:22.000 --> 00:19:24.000 the bulk of the market may be forty and fifty. 348 00:19:24.519 --> 00:19:27.160 If the owner the owner. If the owner is still there, 349 00:19:27.240 --> 00:19:30.720 his hands could be tied by pe or he may 350 00:19:30.759 --> 00:19:33.720 still have sway an influence in the company. Like I 351 00:19:33.759 --> 00:19:37.160 don't think there's reasons to panic, but it's funny how 352 00:19:37.240 --> 00:19:40.759 you hear conversations like, oh, these people have no idea 353 00:19:40.799 --> 00:19:43.880 what PE is. And you know what lawyers typically do 354 00:19:43.960 --> 00:19:46.839 is they think they're experts at everything and they're not. 355 00:19:48.200 --> 00:19:50.559 And then with chat they put it in and be like, oh, 356 00:19:50.559 --> 00:19:52.759 you're an expert in PE now, but you're not. You 357 00:19:52.759 --> 00:19:55.160 didn't go to finance degree, you don't really understand math. 358 00:19:55.200 --> 00:19:57.279 But you're like, oh, yeah, did you hear about that 359 00:19:57.319 --> 00:20:00.240 company being bought out? You know, like what should we do? 360 00:20:00.519 --> 00:20:02.920 You know, like it's not going to be him anymore 361 00:20:03.039 --> 00:20:06.799 or whatever. And that's the conversation that clients do have 362 00:20:06.839 --> 00:20:09.680 at these conferences when they hear that companies will be 363 00:20:09.759 --> 00:20:14.519 MPE because it's happening in a legal space too. Indirectly, Obviously, 364 00:20:15.359 --> 00:20:17.440 the larger firms are going to get large and have 365 00:20:17.559 --> 00:20:20.920 an influx of money to advertise and acquire cases digitally 366 00:20:21.000 --> 00:20:24.400 and have the best resources and technology to come up 367 00:20:24.440 --> 00:20:28.519 in AI search and you know, so all that's coming 368 00:20:28.559 --> 00:20:32.000 home the rust. So I just also wonder how that 369 00:20:32.079 --> 00:20:36.240 long term impacts your SEO company as a business. Think 370 00:20:36.240 --> 00:20:39.119 about if the big companies swallow up the small companies, 371 00:20:39.440 --> 00:20:42.200 Like what is your average seat at your at your 372 00:20:42.839 --> 00:20:43.599 your firm. 373 00:20:43.680 --> 00:20:47.559 Like how many people that I have my firm or no. 374 00:20:47.039 --> 00:20:51.000 No, you're just like your firms like a ten plus, 375 00:20:51.039 --> 00:20:52.559 twenty plus thirty plus. 376 00:20:53.279 --> 00:20:58.480 Yeah, I would say five to fifty is probably our 377 00:20:58.519 --> 00:21:02.799 sweet spot. I guess I've had almost four hundred, you know, 378 00:21:02.799 --> 00:21:05.680 four hundred attorney clients. 379 00:21:05.359 --> 00:21:09.119 So that five us. So that five to fifty, keV, 380 00:21:09.160 --> 00:21:11.640 what do you think about that? Like? Are those how 381 00:21:11.680 --> 00:21:15.480 long do you think before? That's the size firms that 382 00:21:15.559 --> 00:21:21.000 are going to be impacted by pe P. 383 00:21:21.440 --> 00:21:24.640 It's having in fast. So I had a gentleman on 384 00:21:24.680 --> 00:21:27.839 from down in Florida on my podcast recently. He owns 385 00:21:28.000 --> 00:21:32.559 Esquire Bank. Super sharp guy who knows this, knows a 386 00:21:32.559 --> 00:21:35.640 lot about this stuff. And he was like, yeah, you know, 387 00:21:35.799 --> 00:21:39.000 you can own a firm in Arizona and Utah has 388 00:21:39.039 --> 00:21:43.880 some some laws there. And he's like, oh, well, pees 389 00:21:43.920 --> 00:21:48.039 and law firms all around the country, every single state. 390 00:21:48.759 --> 00:21:50.680 And I was like, okay, we'll explain more about that. 391 00:21:50.720 --> 00:21:54.119 And he said, he's like, well, Kevin, you can't earn 392 00:21:54.119 --> 00:21:56.359 a law firm. You're not a lawyer unless you live 393 00:21:56.359 --> 00:22:01.160 in Arizona. He's

like, but he's like, so you can't 394 00:22:01.160 --> 00:22:05.000 invest I can invest in bills firm as a non lawyer. 395 00:22:05.039 --> 00:22:08.319 But what Bill could do or any other firm could do, 396 00:22:08.559 --> 00:22:12.119 is you can separate the non legal work from the 397 00:22:12.200 --> 00:22:16.559 legal work in a separate company. The marketing intake, everything 398 00:22:17.160 --> 00:22:22.920 cannot client communication, everything that probably most of the time 399 00:22:23.119 --> 00:22:24.759 been in a law firm. It's not the illegal work, 400 00:22:24.799 --> 00:22:28.279 it's all the other things. You can separate that. And 401 00:22:28.319 --> 00:22:30.279 you can do that with twenty different law firms. And 402 00:22:30.319 --> 00:22:33.960 now I can invest in that. And so PE is 403 00:22:34.000 --> 00:22:39.160 getting in other ways, and it's it's already been happening 404 00:22:39.200 --> 00:22:44.039 for some time. So as far as how I think 405 00:22:44.039 --> 00:22:47.519 it impact me right now, it's our advantage. Like we 406 00:22:47.599 --> 00:22:52.480 have fifty fifties on people. We stick to our values. 407 00:22:52.480 --> 00:22:55.200 We're growing a great business, we have great processes, and 408 00:22:55.240 --> 00:23:00.400 we're not bought by PE, although we were lucrative and 409 00:23:01.319 --> 00:23:05.039 they talk to us often. We have a time frame 410 00:23:05.400 --> 00:23:08.319 in mind, we have goals in mine. So as these 411 00:23:08.319 --> 00:23:11.240 others are all getting bought up, you know, I think 412 00:23:11.240 --> 00:23:16.160 it's good opportunity for us until until until they come 413 00:23:16.160 --> 00:23:19.799 with a big enough checkbook to talk to us. So yeah, 414 00:23:19.839 --> 00:23:21.519 and that's you don't have to exit that way, you know. 415 00:23:21.559 --> 00:23:23.839 I think it's for everyone to look at the opportunity 416 00:23:23.839 --> 00:23:25.480 to say I can I take some chips off the 417 00:23:25.480 --> 00:23:29.279 table and reinvest and stay as part of this for 418 00:23:29.440 --> 00:23:35.039 something bigger. And to you you said this earlier. We're 419 00:23:35.039 --> 00:23:36.839 not the best at what we do. PE's got the 420 00:23:36.880 --> 00:23:39.799 best people, all the money. What if they can invest, 421 00:23:40.039 --> 00:23:44.319 I take money off the table, reinvest, back in stay 422 00:23:44.359 --> 00:23:46.920 as part of the bigger goal because I see what 423 00:23:46.920 --> 00:23:49.759 they're able to do, which is beyond what I'm able 424 00:23:49.799 --> 00:23:51.880 to do. Yeah, you know that might not be a 425 00:23:51.920 --> 00:23:52.279 bad thing. 426 00:23:52.880 --> 00:23:55.880 Yeah, it's interesting. So I told you it would go 427 00:23:55.920 --> 00:23:58.960 different than what our script. I never have a script. 428 00:23:59.160 --> 00:24:00.680 I don't want to talk about a see all day. 429 00:24:01.079 --> 00:24:03.279 Yeah, I haven't talked about it all. But we still 430 00:24:03.319 --> 00:24:05.880 gave some value to our people, I think our listeners, 431 00:24:05.880 --> 00:24:08.920 and you gave some value. So you know you've got 432 00:24:08.920 --> 00:24:13.319 a podcast cause Managing Partners podcast've been doing about four 433 00:24:13.039 --> 00:24:18.119 four years or so. And I mean, you know general 434 00:24:18.240 --> 00:24:22.279 question that I have and and I would say this 435 00:24:22.359 --> 00:24:25.240 to you here, here's a different way of putting this. 436 00:24:27.640 --> 00:24:30.079 You run on eos. I think in fact, I see 437 00:24:30.119 --> 00:24:32.440 a book called traction in the back. Or you don't, 438 00:24:33.519 --> 00:24:34.279 ye do not. 439 00:24:34.559 --> 00:24:40.480 We don't have an aos implementer. We follow traction and okay, 440 00:24:40.519 --> 00:24:42.279 we're one of the hard headed ones that says we're 441 00:24:42.279 --> 00:24:43.720 going to do it ourselves. 442 00:24:44.000 --> 00:24:47.480 Okay, all right, way, yeah, so but you're still applying 443 00:24:47.599 --> 00:24:51.680 traction principles my point. So, but but you have leaders 444 00:24:51.720 --> 00:24:54.759 on that I don't want to talk about the people 445 00:24:55.599 --> 00:25:01.480 that are exhibiting patterns from eos uh specifically. Actually, I'm 446 00:25:01.519 --> 00:25:04.440 curious about the leaders you've talked to that have run 447 00:25:04.559 --> 00:25:08.359 successful law firms, that that have been on your podcasts, 448 00:25:08.400 --> 00:25:11.160 that are not using a particular business system, but they're 449 00:25:11.160 --> 00:25:15.480 still successful. It's a different question. So because I asked 450 00:25:15.480 --> 00:25:18.799 you that question in the context of e O s, 451 00:25:18.839 --> 00:25:22.079 it's yeah, you know, good meetings, right people, right seat, 452 00:25:22.079 --> 00:25:26.759 and maybe some of its similar but but KPIs. But 453 00:25:26.759 --> 00:25:29.759 but I still think there are people that are successful 454 00:25:29.880 --> 00:25:32.680 not using these business systems, and if they've been on 455 00:25:32.720 --> 00:25:35.359 your show, So are there any patterns that you've seen 456 00:25:35.440 --> 00:25:40.000 with those particular managing partners or firms after the four 457 00:25:40.079 --> 00:25:42.400 years of doing this that you could identify and say, 458 00:25:42.720 --> 00:25:45.880 and it could be the similar attraction, but that that 459 00:25:45.880 --> 00:25:49.960 that that you know that that that that kind of 460 00:25:50.000 --> 00:25:53.279 a pattern that they are exhibiting, that makes them successful 461 00:25:53.400 --> 00:25:55.839 financially or otherwise. 462 00:25:57.039 --> 00:25:59.920 Yeah, I told you a lot of people that aren't. 463 00:26:00.319 --> 00:26:02.640 I just got done interviewing another guy out of Florida 464 00:26:02.640 -->

00:26:06.079 today that was on the US, so that's easy to 465 00:26:06.079 --> 00:26:08.759 pick up on that. I do speak to a lot 466 00:26:08.759 --> 00:26:11.559 of folks that I've had four hundred plus law firm 467 00:26:11.599 --> 00:26:17.799 business owners on my show, so all shapes and sizes. 468 00:26:18.599 --> 00:26:21.559 Not more recently, I see a lot more that are 469 00:26:21.559 --> 00:26:24.319 on like a US or something like that. Actually, I 470 00:26:24.319 --> 00:26:26.799 have a Mastermint today where I have someone from Bloom 471 00:26:27.119 --> 00:26:32.440 coming to talk to US. Blooms another system. But you know, 472 00:26:33.000 --> 00:26:35.680 leading up before this year, I feel like most people 473 00:26:35.839 --> 00:26:38.480 weren't mentioning in the US or not on a system. 474 00:26:38.519 --> 00:26:40.279 So I've talked to plenty of that I haven't, so 475 00:26:40.359 --> 00:26:44.200 I would say, if they're on my show, they've already 476 00:26:44.400 --> 00:26:48.000 done something of some success, because that's kind of who 477 00:26:48.000 --> 00:26:51.880 I interview and asked them, Hey, how'd you get there? 478 00:26:52.000 --> 00:26:58.640 What was some aha moments? I got to say if 479 00:26:58.640 --> 00:27:01.039 I had to choose something, which this all kind of 480 00:27:01.079 --> 00:27:04.039 goes in line with traction. Maybe they got it from traction, 481 00:27:04.079 --> 00:27:07.400 I don't know, but it's really the culture aspects, the 482 00:27:08.559 --> 00:27:11.640 starting down with like having some values in place, core 483 00:27:11.759 --> 00:27:16.039 values that they either kind of made up or just 484 00:27:16.160 --> 00:27:17.599 some happened. I had a guy the other day that 485 00:27:17.960 --> 00:27:20.680 they they just kind of came up with these crazy 486 00:27:20.759 --> 00:27:24.400 core values themselves. Are not on a system. They've only 487 00:27:24.400 --> 00:27:27.359 been in business for like a year, and their values 488 00:27:27.359 --> 00:27:30.400 are pretty unique and different. But they took time to 489 00:27:30.440 --> 00:27:32.359 do that in the beginning. And I think that's the 490 00:27:32.400 --> 00:27:37.359 difference is it wasn't a oh shit, we own a 491 00:27:37.400 --> 00:27:40.440 law firm six years later, now we should probably be 492 00:27:40.559 --> 00:27:44.319 serious about it. I think the pattern's been it was 493 00:27:44.359 --> 00:27:47.920 thought through, they had a plan, they didn't have asset, 494 00:27:49.119 --> 00:27:52.440 and they actually said if I was gonna do this 495 00:27:52.599 --> 00:27:54.759 for myself. Because maybe they've worked at a law firm 496 00:27:54.799 --> 00:27:58.200 for many years or for a few years, they take 497 00:27:58.240 --> 00:28:00.079 time to say, hey, how would I want this to 498 00:28:00.200 --> 00:28:04.039 be done, and that starts that journey of well, I 499 00:28:04.079 --> 00:28:06.319 believe in this. I think

things should be done this way. 500 00:28:06.599 --> 00:28:10.079 I think you should document this and hire people that 501 00:28:10.240 --> 00:28:14.119 also want the same shit, and that's how they end 502 00:28:14.200 --> 00:28:17.359 up with a good partnership or good people or that 503 00:28:17.640 --> 00:28:22.759 believe whatever crazy shit they believe to be true and say, hey, 504 00:28:22.799 --> 00:28:25.000 I want to follow that guy Bill's crazy as hell, 505 00:28:25.039 --> 00:28:26.519 but I'm on board. 506 00:28:27.119 --> 00:28:27.720 Yeah. 507 00:28:27.880 --> 00:28:31.519 So that's the pattern I normally see, is that it's 508 00:28:31.559 --> 00:28:34.960 not supposed to be money, and they, you know, they've 509 00:28:35.039 --> 00:28:37.400 taken some time to say, Okay, what do we want 510 00:28:37.400 --> 00:28:37.960 this to look like? 511 00:28:38.839 --> 00:28:41.680 Yeah, you know, it's funny because as a guy, Bill Biggs, 512 00:28:41.680 --> 00:28:44.119 that's in the space and I have so much respect 513 00:28:44.119 --> 00:28:48.519 for him, you know. And I'm talking to one of 514 00:28:48.559 --> 00:28:53.759 my mentors about not monetizing the culture aspect. But I 515 00:28:55.440 --> 00:28:58.640 think that it's funny that you said that. I wanted 516 00:28:58.680 --> 00:29:01.799 to hear your answer. It is interesting, But I do 517 00:29:01.880 --> 00:29:06.680 think I think it's culture and implementation of it. It's funny. 518 00:29:06.680 --> 00:29:10.240 It's people over hardware. And I'll tell you we just 519 00:29:10.240 --> 00:29:14.480 had a lunch. We just lost two people. And I 520 00:29:14.519 --> 00:29:18.400 told my team at lunch today the tale of two stories, 521 00:29:19.079 --> 00:29:22.119 which is and didn't It's funny, how like I've been 522 00:29:22.119 --> 00:29:25.160 doing this long enough now where I could look thirty 523 00:29:25.279 --> 00:29:28.880 five people in the face. You know. We gave out 524 00:29:28.880 --> 00:29:31.480 awards for virtual assistance today from the Philippines that were 525 00:29:31.480 --> 00:29:36.839 actually crying Venezuela. So thankful. But I'm able to have 526 00:29:36.960 --> 00:29:41.599 uncomfortable conversations because I have an adherence to what I 527 00:29:41.680 --> 00:29:46.359 spoke about at pimcom, which is power, values, positivity, ownership, 528 00:29:46.359 --> 00:29:50.799 works a team, evolutionary, relentless, and so you know, I 529 00:29:50.880 --> 00:29:52.599 used to be the kind of guy like this person 530 00:29:52.680 --> 00:29:55.880 didn't work out because they sucked or they didn't mit 531 00:29:55.880 --> 00:29:58.839 a culture. And I phrase it differently now, which is 532 00:29:59.440 --> 00:30:01.680 and that's funny that you said that, because I see 533 00:30:01.680 --> 00:30:04.799 how this resonates from what the people that you've interviewed. 534 00:30:05.319 --> 00:30:08.039 But like I said to my team today, I'm like, look, 535

00:30:08.680 --> 00:30:12.279 we had someone because they gave their notice, but they 536 00:30:12.279 --> 00:30:15.079 were really about two weeks away of getting chopped. And 537 00:30:15.680 --> 00:30:17.839 in the past when people got chopped, we'd all have 538 00:30:17.880 --> 00:30:20.960 a meeting and we panic and we tell everyone and 539 00:30:21.000 --> 00:30:23.119 try to get it all together. This one, you know, 540 00:30:23.279 --> 00:30:25.640 we waited a week wait for the monthly meeting, and 541 00:30:25.680 --> 00:30:28.279 I got in there and just was like, you know, 542 00:30:28.440 --> 00:30:31.480 when you have values, what's happening is that you can 543 00:30:31.559 --> 00:30:35.920 have competent people, but they don't necessarily fit in your values. 544 00:30:35.960 --> 00:30:40.440 And what happens is that, for instance, positivity, if you 545 00:30:40.480 --> 00:30:42.279 know a lot of things, we're all human beings. So 546 00:30:42.359 --> 00:30:44.160 as leaders, we let you down and we want you 547 00:30:44.200 --> 00:30:47.200 to let our leaders know when we are not exhibiting 548 00:30:47.279 --> 00:30:50.799 those behaviors in a much more positive way than negative. 549 00:30:50.799 --> 00:30:53.759 Thing EOS is plus plus plus minus whatever, but just 550 00:30:54.039 --> 00:30:57.200 more often than not, much more often than not. But 551 00:30:57.319 --> 00:30:59.359 when you have an employee that comes in as competent 552 00:31:00.160 --> 00:31:03.720 and whether they're on your leadership team or in whatever 553 00:31:03.839 --> 00:31:06.960 field for you and your sales and marketing, and I 554 00:31:07.000 --> 00:31:11.440 was explaining Kevin, like, there's a pressure that builds up 555 00:31:11.440 --> 00:31:14.799 with that employee because, for instance, for us, if they 556 00:31:14.839 --> 00:31:19.400 can't always be positive and they know that everyone else 557 00:31:19.440 --> 00:31:22.519 around them is positive, so that when they say something negative, 558 00:31:23.079 --> 00:31:25.720 the response that they're getting back is not an affirmation 559 00:31:25.920 --> 00:31:28.720 but kind of like and then all of a sudden 560 00:31:28.759 --> 00:31:30.519 it gets back to them. So they're like, oh, that 561 00:31:30.559 --> 00:31:32.720 person isn't loyal, that's not a friend of mine. I 562 00:31:32.720 --> 00:31:36.960 can't vent that too. Or you know, they are trying 563 00:31:36.960 --> 00:31:39.720 to adapt to a software but they're having difficulty. They're 564 00:31:39.720 --> 00:31:42.440 trying to get it, you know, and they're just having difficulty, 565 00:31:42.559 --> 00:31:47.279 or maybe like accountability, they keep getting talked to by leader, 566 00:31:47.680 --> 00:31:51.519 their leader about hey, try to try to help you here, 567 00:31:51.640 --> 00:31:54.000 trying to work out a different thing. The pressure builds 568 00:31:54.000 --> 00:31:56.880 on that employee. So two things happen. You either terminate 569 00:31:56.920 --> 00:32:01.000 the employee or they let themselves go because they just 570 00:32:01.079 --> 00:32:05.839 subconsciously don't fit your culture. And what's so important. I 571 00:32:05.839 --> 00:32:08.039 think what you just indicated about a pattern of success, 572 00:32:08.079 --> 00:32:10.799 I kind of agree with you is it's not just 573 00:32:11.039 --> 00:32:16.000 having it's it's making sure you fucking live and breathe it. 574 00:32:16.039 --> 00:32:18.519 Because then was able to turn around and say, here's 575 00:32:18.559 --> 00:32:21.960 a bouquet of flowers for someone who is leaving us, 576 00:32:22.000 --> 00:32:25.839 and then everyone was like started crying. Basically, this person's great. 577 00:32:25.880 --> 00:32:28.119 They fit the culture, and this is a leader. You 578 00:32:28.200 --> 00:32:30.599 always like, did we let them down? Did we let 579 00:32:30.599 --> 00:32:33.759 them down somewhere in our culture or money or finance 580 00:32:33.920 --> 00:32:37.359 or something else, or are they leaving to follow their dream? 581 00:32:37.640 --> 00:32:39.880 And in this case, the person decide I'm leaving law 582 00:32:39.880 --> 00:32:41.400 and I want to get into finance. I'm taking a 583 00:32:41.440 --> 00:32:44.279 twenty thousand dollars raise, I'm getting my college paid for 584 00:32:44.480 --> 00:32:47.799 by this or that or whatever. And ultimately, why wouldn't 585 00:32:47.839 --> 00:32:50.240 they They're following something for them and you know, we 586 00:32:50.279 --> 00:32:52.680 gave that person flowers and then they you know, it's 587 00:32:52.680 --> 00:32:55.799 so funny as we're given this speech, that person before 588 00:32:55.839 --> 00:32:58.319 she even realized she's being recognized, is nodding her head 589 00:32:58.839 --> 00:33:01.200 about the first person even though she doesn't know her 590 00:33:01.240 --> 00:33:04.119 because we didn't talk about the person directly, but everyone knew. 591 00:33:04.599 --> 00:33:07.000 So I think it is so important. But I think 592 00:33:07.599 --> 00:33:10.039 you can have words, and you could talk about them 593 00:33:10.079 --> 00:33:13.200 at meetings. You could do a lot of talking, but 594 00:33:13.359 --> 00:33:16.799 really it's your actions that matter. So it's like you've 595 00:33:16.799 --> 00:33:20.279 got to follow through with those actions, and every single 596 00:33:20.319 --> 00:33:23.480 person has to be dialed into that. Like you said, 597 00:33:23.519 --> 00:33:27.279 the crazy shit that your leadership team and the owners 598 00:33:27.319 --> 00:33:30.559 thinking otherwise, you know, and you got to be accountable 599 00:33:30.599 --> 00:33:34.000 and saying, look, I fucked up. I should be more 600 00:33:34.039 --> 00:33:35.839 of that, and I got to be very careful because 601 00:33:35.839 --> 00:33:37.920 it's always interesting. Here's a question i'd ask you, since 602 00:33:37.920

--> 00:33:40.079 you like, what would you do if you were the 603 00:33:40.200 --> 00:33:43.880 entrepreneur yourself or your partner. I'm not talking about you 604 00:33:43.920 --> 00:33:45.440 breaking up, but let's say it was you and you 605 00:33:45.440 --> 00:33:47.400 were a solo person and you couldn't even meet the 606 00:33:47.480 --> 00:33:50.519 values any more of your own company. How does the 607 00:33:50.599 --> 00:33:54.079 leadership team deal with that? I guess they all quit. Well, 608 00:33:54.119 --> 00:33:57.160 they tell you to leave when it's your baby, you know, 609 00:33:57.279 --> 00:33:59.559 But you ever think about going around a room and 610 00:33:59.599 --> 00:34:03.519 your leadership team is rating you and you're like, oh, positivity, 611 00:34:03.640 --> 00:34:07.319 you're a minus. Ownership. You never take ownership negative. Thank god, 612 00:34:07.359 --> 00:34:11.280 I'm not like that. Uh, work as a team, you're 613 00:34:11.320 --> 00:34:13.079 plus minus. And then by the time you're like, shit, 614 00:34:13.159 --> 00:34:14.800 I just graded myself out of a job. 615 00:34:15.599 --> 00:34:17.079 Yeah, I should mean you're got a job. 616 00:34:17.079 --> 00:34:20.519 It's you, it's your company. Yeah. 617 00:34:20.559 --> 00:34:22.440 Yeah. I guess it's tough on. I mean we all 618 00:34:22.760 --> 00:34:25.119 I guess the big thing is people are people, right, 619 00:34:25.119 --> 00:34:28.559 and we can all change and uh, you know, and 620 00:34:28.559 --> 00:34:31.440 that that can mean the owner as well. And I 621 00:34:31.480 --> 00:34:34.320 see firms or other companies go out of business all 622 00:34:34.360 --> 00:34:37.840 the time or uh decide to hang it up and 623 00:34:38.320 --> 00:34:41.639 go do something else and go this this isn't for me. 624 00:34:41.719 --> 00:34:44.679 I running a law firm is not what I thought. 625 00:34:45.199 --> 00:34:47.079 I gave it a shot. I'm going back to work 626 00:34:47.119 --> 00:34:49.920 for someone else. And I've actually seen that happen many times. 627 00:34:50.679 --> 00:34:52.880 A very good friend of mine who is great lawyer 628 00:34:52.880 --> 00:34:54.800 and actually great at getting in business. This is the 629 00:34:54.840 --> 00:34:58.320 thing just happened. Great at getting in business and a 630 00:34:58.360 --> 00:35:01.199 great lawyer. So you usually when you see that, you 631 00:35:01.239 --> 00:35:03.440 see someone that's going to stick it out. But he's like, 632 00:35:04.000 --> 00:35:06.199 that's a lot of weight on my shoulders. I'm like, 633 00:35:07.119 --> 00:35:10.079 it's just too much this other shit, Like that's not 634 00:35:10.119 --> 00:35:12.000 I just want to be a lawyer and I still 635 00:35:12.000 --> 00:35:14.239 want to bring in cases, but I want to do 636 00:35:14.360 --> 00:35:16.239 through the lowering part. I don't want to be part 637 00:35:16.280 --> 00:35:20.159 of the managing the administration. I don't even want to 638 00:35:20.239 --> 00:35:21.800 hire people to do that because then I got to 639 00:35:21.920 --> 00:35:24.639 overlook them. And even if I don't really have to 640 00:35:24.679 --> 00:35:26.920 overlook them, I still thinking about it, and they're added 641 00:35:26.960 --> 00:35:30.039 to the payroll mix. It's not just people who fail, Actually, 642 00:35:30.079 --> 00:35:33.800 it's people actually doing okay, but realizing like this shit's 643 00:35:33.880 --> 00:35:36.440 not for me, Like it's funny you do see that, 644 00:35:36.480 --> 00:35:38.119 but you see it all the contexts. 645 00:35:38.880 --> 00:35:41.639 That's a win. You know, you you've got a decision 646 00:35:41.679 --> 00:35:45.840 there at least, you know, if you can move one hundred. Yeah, 647 00:35:45.880 --> 00:35:51.119 I've lost so many good people to entrepreneurship. Hey, I'm leaving. 648 00:35:51.239 --> 00:35:52.920 What do you mean you're like our a player. Yeah, 649 00:35:52.960 --> 00:35:54.800 I'm going to start my own company doing this And 650 00:35:54.880 --> 00:35:59.000 that's like, uh, you know, I've lost had head leadership 651 00:35:59.000 --> 00:36:01.199 that wanted to get in real estate, passionate about real estate, 652 00:36:01.679 --> 00:36:04.079 sorted dabbling. We support them. Yeah, hell yeah I should 653 00:36:04.079 --> 00:36:06.159 do real estate. I have real estate. You should invest 654 00:36:06.159 --> 00:36:08.639 in shit too. They end up loving it and go, 655 00:36:08.920 --> 00:36:11.840 I'm gonna do that full time. So it's gonna happen. 656 00:36:11.840 --> 00:36:14.519 You're gonna lose good people. People are gonna change, and 657 00:36:14.599 --> 00:36:18.039 the team that you have now won't be the same 658 00:36:18.079 --> 00:36:21.599 team over time. It's going to change. People are gonna 659 00:36:21.599 --> 00:36:24.400 come go. We had a situation where we had someone 660 00:36:24.400 --> 00:36:29.360 that left because of a manager that was managing them. 661 00:36:29.400 --> 00:36:31.639 Just it just coming back they've been going for like 662 00:36:31.639 --> 00:36:35.239 a year plus because we found out more about why 663 00:36:35.239 --> 00:36:37.599 they left, and they were a really good person, good fit. 664 00:36:38.519 --> 00:36:40.519 It was really how they were taking care of him 665 00:36:40.559 --> 00:36:45.760 managed was it was more of the problem. Yeah. 666 00:36:45.800 --> 00:36:47.880 So yeah, it's always an interesting one because you're like, 667 00:36:47.880 --> 00:36:49.800 why the fuck did I see that in the first place. 668 00:36:49.840 --> 00:36:52.199 That's on us, not them, But yeah. 669 00:36:52.760 --> 00:36:55.280 Yeah, and a lot is on you or me, right, 670 00:36:55.360 --> 00:36:58.679 A lot of it comes down to what happened, and 671 00:36:59.480 --> 00:37:01.599 we'll take you should be our blame, Like we didn't 672 00:37:01.599 --> 00:37:04.159 have the right systems, we didn't have the

right technology, 673 00:37:04.239 --> 00:37:06.599 you didn't have you had a shitty manager, and we 674 00:37:06.639 --> 00:37:09.800 didn't We shouldn't allow that to happen, Or I didn't 675 00:37:09.800 --> 00:37:11.679 I don't have values, or I don't have systems or 676 00:37:11.719 --> 00:37:15.519 processes or I didn't have a plan, you know, so 677 00:37:15.599 --> 00:37:17.760 we're using to blame for everything. 678 00:37:18.320 --> 00:37:22.360 Yep, that's so we had the ability. Yeah. Sure, So 679 00:37:22.440 --> 00:37:25.920 let's talk a little bit about content branding because and 680 00:37:25.960 --> 00:37:30.639 some visibility, like you know, you got pe coming in, 681 00:37:31.760 --> 00:37:35.079 so in some respects grassroots marketing, Uh, it can be 682 00:37:35.159 --> 00:37:40.639 really important. But but with major brands, have you seen 683 00:37:40.679 --> 00:37:45.880 any lawyers that have done something different in branding that 684 00:37:46.400 --> 00:37:48.639 they don't have a big budget, but they've decided to 685 00:37:48.679 --> 00:37:54.559 go completely different and it's helped them grow. Maybe they're 686 00:37:54.559 --> 00:37:57.719 not superstars yet as far as but they're they're they're 687 00:37:57.719 --> 00:38:05.360 they're growing, and like, yeah, for sure, anyone comes to mind. 688 00:38:05.800 --> 00:38:08.800 I was a good good friend of mine, Lee Rudin. 689 00:38:08.880 --> 00:38:12.639 You know Lee out of kidom on my podcast, Yeah, 690 00:38:12.719 --> 00:38:13.599 the get rude guy. 691 00:38:13.880 --> 00:38:18.119 Yeah yeah, So Lee's actually a part of my Mastermind 692 00:38:19.239 --> 00:38:23.079 and uh he's he's been on my podcast. He's an 693 00:38:23.119 --> 00:38:26.159 eight figure firm. I'm not sure if I met it. 694 00:38:26.199 --> 00:38:28.039 I think I met him through that group. But anyway, 695 00:38:29.079 --> 00:38:31.400 he's the one that came to mind because he just 696 00:38:32.639 --> 00:38:35.280 he just goes kind of outside the box completely. He's 697 00:38:35.320 --> 00:38:38.760 a personal injury Attornary down in New Orleans. But he 698 00:38:38.920 --> 00:38:42.519 just just a ton of grassroots. He likes wrestling so 699 00:38:42.639 --> 00:38:46.719 like uh, you know, like WrestleMania type wrestling. I know, Bill, 700 00:38:46.800 --> 00:38:51.440 you give about wrestling belts for your for your poker tournament. 701 00:38:51.920 --> 00:38:56.239 Yeah, actually Lee inspired me. Anyone else that you can 702 00:38:56.280 --> 00:38:56.639 think of? 703 00:38:57.360 --> 00:39:02.119 Let's see, m Well, you know, Jen Gore has always 704 00:39:02.159 --> 00:39:04.800 been a good friend of mine. She's obviously stood out 705 00:39:05.119 --> 00:39:08.159 and built her brand. She's obviously very successful, bigger brand 706 00:39:08.159 --> 00:39:14.639 that was bought out. Uh, I'm trying to I'm trying 707 00:39:14.679 --> 00:39:16.000 to think of his name. For some reason, I

can't 708 00:39:16.000 --> 00:39:19.679 think of his name. He's up in Boston. Lynn, you 709 00:39:19.719 --> 00:39:24.920 know Lynn, Uh, what's his last name? His friend? 710 00:39:26.039 --> 00:39:30.159 I know Lynn mccrawl down in Texas. But there's another 711 00:39:30.199 --> 00:39:31.199 guy Lynn. 712 00:39:32.119 --> 00:39:35.320 Sorry, Lynn, if you're listening, I'll find his name of that. 713 00:39:35.360 --> 00:39:40.159 But he's out of Boston. White dude like me and you, Uh, 714 00:39:40.199 --> 00:39:44.519 completely cornered the Hispanic market. Doesn't even speak Spanish himself, 715 00:39:45.280 --> 00:39:50.239 doesn't even advertise for anyone, all his billboards, all his everything, 716 00:39:50.800 --> 00:39:55.400 Hunber said, Spanish, zero English. Just gave up on that completely, 717 00:39:55.440 --> 00:39:59.239 does a personal injury and workers' comp and has just 718 00:39:59.360 --> 00:40:04.760 destroyed that market again as a non bilingual person himself, 719 00:40:05.000 --> 00:40:06.840 and he said his clients and people make fun of 720 00:40:06.880 --> 00:40:09.239 him for it, but he did it, and that's what 721 00:40:09.280 --> 00:40:12.320 he's doing. Another lader that's done the same thing in 722 00:40:12.400 --> 00:40:18.159 a Portuguese market, small Portuguese neighborhood section of Boston. Actually, 723 00:40:18.800 --> 00:40:22.400 so just really finding a focus in a niche as well, 724 00:40:23.119 --> 00:40:28.840 I think is important. What he's just got crazy tactics, and. 725 00:40:28.320 --> 00:40:31.519 He's got crazy tactics. What about also like creating a 726 00:40:31.599 --> 00:40:35.280 niche out of something that's not a niche. I always 727 00:40:35.840 --> 00:40:40.039 I always reference to the President Trump like he's somehow 728 00:40:40.400 --> 00:40:42.360 This is not a political thing. This is a true 729 00:40:42.400 --> 00:40:44.039 thing where you hate him, where you like him. He 730 00:40:44.079 --> 00:40:47.000 creates a problem that was never really a problem and 731 00:40:47.039 --> 00:40:50.239 then fixes the problem that never really was a problem 732 00:40:50.280 --> 00:40:52.400 to fix. And people think that's like a new thing, 733 00:40:52.480 --> 00:40:58.400 but that's really not. It's like creating a niche, creating 734 00:40:58.440 --> 00:41:02.039 a niche that is, uh, that's not really a niche. 735 00:41:02.119 --> 00:41:05.280 And you can do it because I say this because 736 00:41:05.400 --> 00:41:07.519 I'm want to ask you a question. So what happens 737 00:41:07.519 --> 00:41:10.519 when you get like an idea as an entrepreneur and 738 00:41:10.559 --> 00:41:14.480 you're like everyone just has this immediate reaction, so you 739 00:41:14.519 --> 00:41:17.880 know that it's gonna be a memorable thing. Uh, maybe 740 00:41:17.880 --> 00:41:21.280 even better than get rude. But then your leadership team 741 00:41:21.400 --> 00:41:24.159 is like, I don't want to be associated

with that brand, 742 00:41:25.960 --> 00:41:28.960 but you but but everyone you tell it to And 743 00:41:29.159 --> 00:41:32.960 right now we're locking down the notice of intent, but 744 00:41:33.079 --> 00:41:39.280 a trademark and some other things. But uh, it's really 745 00:41:39.440 --> 00:41:41.679 the heart, Like the name of your company is an 746 00:41:41.719 --> 00:41:47.360 easy one. It's a ray like it's yeah, and you know. 747 00:41:47.480 --> 00:41:50.840 We're rebranding, but it's still gonna say the same name. No, 748 00:41:51.119 --> 00:41:53.239 that's a good one. I've I've definitely had that happen 749 00:41:53.239 --> 00:41:53.719 in the past. 750 00:41:54.840 --> 00:41:55.159 For one. 751 00:41:55.199 --> 00:41:57.280 Yeah, you want you want to have that reaction. That 752 00:41:57.400 --> 00:42:00.880 means you're on is upping. I think to follow through 753 00:42:00.880 --> 00:42:03.960 with it. If everyone's like really like, oh I don't 754 00:42:04.280 --> 00:42:07.679 I didn't know you were actually serious, Yeah, then you 755 00:42:07.719 --> 00:42:10.719 just go back to like, you know, what what your mission, 756 00:42:10.760 --> 00:42:13.119 what's your values and and what are you guys trying 757 00:42:13.119 --> 00:42:17.039 to accomplish and if it fits within, Hey, this is 758 00:42:17.079 --> 00:42:19.159 going to help us get to where we're trying to go. 759 00:42:19.280 --> 00:42:21.840 And it doesn't go outside of those values as far 760 00:42:21.880 --> 00:42:24.000 as like you know, going against him. You just got 761 00:42:24.039 --> 00:42:26.360 to say, hey, guys, we're doing it. Trust me, let's roll. 762 00:42:26.519 --> 00:42:28.199 Yeah you know, okay. 763 00:42:28.280 --> 00:42:30.440 Yeah when I when I have the paperwork on, I'll 764 00:42:30.519 --> 00:42:33.480 be glad to share you the idea. It's pretty great though. 765 00:42:34.119 --> 00:42:35.800 You can ask Lee unofficially. 766 00:42:35.880 --> 00:42:36.920 I can't wait to hear about it. 767 00:42:36.960 --> 00:42:41.280 Asked Lee unofficially. He'll tell you. Maybe he won't, but it's. 768 00:42:41.119 --> 00:42:44.440 Uh, maybe he won't. I'm gonna text and after. It's 769 00:42:44.440 --> 00:42:48.320 a crazy bill, but uh yeah, so, I mean, you know, 770 00:42:48.360 --> 00:42:50.880 you have to have the idea of people and the 771 00:42:50.880 --> 00:42:51.840 people to support it. 772 00:42:51.960 --> 00:42:56.400 So yeah, you do. I'm doing some boarding on it now. 773 00:42:58.119 --> 00:43:02.159 What is it called? Uh, the boards that you do 774 00:43:02.480 --> 00:43:05.159 to kind of scope the brand and the logo and 775 00:43:05.679 --> 00:43:07.760 what it's going to feel like and then put it 776 00:43:07.800 --> 00:43:12.039 out and test Yeah yeah, yeah yeah, so so so 777 00:43:12.880 --> 00:43:16.480 kind of we had an interesting discussion about P and 778 00:43:16.599 --> 00:43:19.880 SEO firms. We talked a little bit about you know, 779

00:43:19.920 --> 00:43:26.199 the pattern that you see. Is there anything that you think, like, 780 00:43:26.199 --> 00:43:28.800 like the guys that you've been talking to, like, what 781 00:43:28.960 --> 00:43:32.360 is like the smartest marketing move that people are making 782 00:43:32.440 --> 00:43:35.239 right now, whether it's digital or otherwise. 783 00:43:37.320 --> 00:43:40.440 Well, I go, people ask me all the time, But 784 00:43:40.599 --> 00:43:43.599 Kevin what's the secret or the trick or the shortcut, 785 00:43:45.920 --> 00:43:49.039 and of course everybody wants to know what that is. 786 00:43:50.400 --> 00:43:55.960 I go back to the brand like and have the 787 00:43:56.119 --> 00:44:01.159 going through the exercise of understanding their ideal client through 788 00:44:01.159 --> 00:44:04.400 and through what their messaging is so that resonates with 789 00:44:04.440 --> 00:44:07.920 this potential client and really dial that shit in before 790 00:44:07.960 --> 00:44:12.719 you do anything to drive more people to see your brand. 791 00:44:14.199 --> 00:44:15.880 So I think that's just an important step, and people 792 00:44:15.920 --> 00:44:17.679 don't want to hear that. Usually they just like want 793 00:44:17.679 --> 00:44:20.400 to know why to throw a website up and drive 794 00:44:20.480 --> 00:44:25.039 traffic to it and just convert people into cases. So 795 00:44:25.159 --> 00:44:29.679 I think doing all these things fundational things and really 796 00:44:29.840 --> 00:44:32.840 looking deep and seeing, okay, here's what we really want 797 00:44:32.880 --> 00:44:36.000 to focus on and what we want to do, then 798 00:44:36.039 --> 00:44:39.239 everything else should just guide be guided from that. Right. So, 799 00:44:39.239 --> 00:44:42.039 if I'm going to do social media, how am I 800 00:44:42.079 --> 00:44:44.320 staying on brand? If I'm going to do SEO or 801 00:44:44.360 --> 00:44:47.719 content or pay per click or whatever, like, is this 802 00:44:48.719 --> 00:44:50.400 building on top of my brand? Or is it some 803 00:44:51.280 --> 00:44:56.039 going some tangent that doesn't make any sense? So yeah, 804 00:44:56.079 --> 00:44:57.880 I think that's one thing that every firm should be 805 00:44:58.039 --> 00:45:01.039 looking at and saying, hey, do we do we just 806 00:45:01.079 --> 00:45:04.280 make a logo. Do we actually do a branding exercise, 807 00:45:04.440 --> 00:45:07.519 you know the board you're talking about. We do this 808 00:45:07.559 --> 00:45:09.840 recently where we drew We had two teams split up 809 00:45:10.599 --> 00:45:13.639 and we drew out our client what they look like. 810 00:45:14.760 --> 00:45:16.760 So it might look like Bill with some bourbon in 811 00:45:16.760 --> 00:45:19.760 the background or whatever, but we literally draw out all 812 00:45:19.760 --> 00:45:23.400 the little details of the things they might wear, car 813 00:45:23.480 --> 00:45:25.599 they might drive whatever, to

like say what kind of 814 00:45:25.599 --> 00:45:29.039 person are they? And then we came back into the 815 00:45:29.119 --> 00:45:32.480 room to see like what each team had done, and 816 00:45:32.519 --> 00:45:36.119 then flushed out a final piece to say, all right, 817 00:45:36.119 --> 00:45:40.639 here's what our ideal client is and looks like, you know, 818 00:45:40.679 --> 00:45:43.360 how we work with them, how they talk to us, everything. 819 00:45:44.119 --> 00:45:45.840 So I think that was a good exercise. And now 820 00:45:45.880 --> 00:45:48.920 as we're redoing all our brand do social media and anything, 821 00:45:50.400 --> 00:45:53.960 we'll have that guide to say, all right, if we're 822 00:45:54.000 --> 00:45:56.679 pushing it through this filter, we know we're going to 823 00:45:56.719 --> 00:45:59.000 be in the right direction. So I think that's a 824 00:45:59.039 --> 00:46:02.000 good a good tip for anyone to really take that 825 00:46:03.239 --> 00:46:05.880 extra do that exercise. And there's companies that do branding, 826 00:46:06.000 --> 00:46:09.159 or there's workshops. If you're an EO, they have like 827 00:46:09.199 --> 00:46:12.840 a uh kind of a workshop for that. I think 828 00:46:12.920 --> 00:46:16.440 that's huge outside of that. I mean, now you you 829 00:46:16.599 --> 00:46:18.760 have to there's really no shortcuts. I mean you have 830 00:46:18.800 --> 00:46:21.480 to get good reviews. He has to show up everyone 831 00:46:21.519 --> 00:46:23.440 online for AI Search to give a shit about you, 832 00:46:25.519 --> 00:46:30.920 not just Google. Right, So it's being omnipresence omni president. 833 00:46:30.960 --> 00:46:33.639 I guess it was just difficult. So is PR just 834 00:46:33.679 --> 00:46:39.599 a PR radio everything? And that's why I lead's done 835 00:46:39.599 --> 00:46:42.360 a good job as small as he is, because he's 836 00:46:42.920 --> 00:46:46.760 he's on community, he's doing social, he's doing ball stuff, 837 00:46:46.760 --> 00:46:49.920 he's doing whatever. You know, it's it's working. 838 00:46:50.639 --> 00:46:53.199 You gotta you gotta feed the machine though, and get 839 00:46:53.239 --> 00:46:58.760 back to let AI know and Google to know that 840 00:46:58.800 --> 00:47:01.719 you're doing all that stuff. If you don't, you know, 841 00:47:01.800 --> 00:47:04.559 you can get organic stuff, but digitally you're still hurting. 842 00:47:04.599 --> 00:47:09.039 But I agree with that. Oh yeah, So I think 843 00:47:09.519 --> 00:47:12.800 I think we're going to wrap up the podcast nowadays. 844 00:47:12.760 --> 00:47:15.000 It was a good discussion. I think that we had 845 00:47:15.039 --> 00:47:17.840 on on some stuff and I really think that our 846 00:47:17.880 --> 00:47:19.880 listeners will get a lot out of that PE stuff 847 00:47:19.920 --> 00:47:22.800 as they're going to start finding out that their companies 848 00:47:22.840 --> 00:47:27.159 are uh that are that are not and of course 849 00:47:27.159 --> 00:47:30.280 a Ray will be like, hey, we're the non PE 850 00:47:30.599 --> 00:47:33.280 s c O. Company. So there's a new brand. That's 851 00:47:33.280 --> 00:47:34.480 a new pitch, a new pitch. 852 00:47:35.199 --> 00:47:36.199 We haven't been sold yet. 853 00:47:36.199 --> 00:47:39.360 We haven't been sold yet. It's the key. But don't 854 00:47:39.559 --> 00:47:41.800 don't focus on the word yet because it could be 855 00:47:41.840 --> 00:47:45.760 five years, it could be five days. But anyway, I so, 856 00:47:45.800 --> 00:47:46.559 how do people love? 857 00:47:46.679 --> 00:47:47.800 Zero is behind the number? 858 00:47:47.840 --> 00:47:50.800 That's right, and but so tell us a little bit 859 00:47:50.840 --> 00:47:53.920 about like how do people can find you? And we'll 860 00:47:53.960 --> 00:47:56.519 certainly put that on our show and we'll go from there. 861 00:47:56.840 --> 00:48:00.639 Yeah, Kevin Daisy s d A, I C Y on everything. 862 00:48:00.719 --> 00:48:04.320 So my lassing is unique kind of. So that's my 863 00:48:04.400 --> 00:48:09.079 handle Kevin Daisy on Instagram, LinkedIn I'm always there sharing, 864 00:48:10.280 --> 00:48:13.880 or you can go to Arraydigital dot com check out 865 00:48:13.920 --> 00:48:17.679 my business. The podcast is linked off there, the Managing 866 00:48:17.719 --> 00:48:19.840 Partners podcast. If you just Google or search for it, 867 00:48:19.880 --> 00:48:20.400 go find that. 868 00:48:21.159 --> 00:48:23.639 Well. I appreciate you having on. It was a nice conversation. 869 00:48:24.199 --> 00:48:26.679 I'm flying to New York tomorrow morning for my son's 870 00:48:26.719 --> 00:48:31.000 engaging party. Otherwise I'd crash your Christmas party. I know. 871 00:48:31.199 --> 00:48:33.239 Oh man, that'd been awesome. I have you, and Andrew, 872 00:48:34.519 --> 00:48:35.320 Andrew can't. 873 00:48:35.920 --> 00:48:38.639 I'm gonna come in barrel chested like this, and I 874 00:48:38.639 --> 00:48:41.519 don't think. I think Andrew's still reserved and he won't 875 00:48:41.559 --> 00:48:44.920 do that. But but uh yeah, I would crash Andrews. 876 00:48:45.159 --> 00:48:47.079 I'm actually having a Christmas party where I'm having a 877 00:48:47.159 --> 00:48:51.440 couple of some people that used to work with me 878 00:48:51.480 --> 00:48:53.800 come back. And I would actually recommend that to you. 879 00:48:54.239 --> 00:48:56.039 You always have like good people that used to work 880 00:48:56.079 --> 00:49:00.199 with you. You fly him back even though we're land though, 881 00:49:00.199 --> 00:49:03.000 and you surprise people like it's too late maybe this year, 882 00:49:03.000 --> 00:49:05.199 but if you think about in the future and they 883 00:49:05.199 --> 00:49:06.840 can give a talk about how great it was to 884 00:49:06.920 --> 00:49:08.480 work there, it's nothing better. 885 00:49:08.320 --> 00:49:10.920 Than getting That's a great idea. Yeah, I like that 886

00:49:10.960 --> 00:49:11.199 a lot. 887 00:49:11.280 --> 00:49:12.400 Yeah. 888 00:49:13.679 --> 00:49:15.360 Also, so I didn't have my bourbon behind me, but 889 00:49:15.400 --> 00:49:16.920 I got you know, best over here. 890 00:49:17.119 --> 00:49:21.480 That's cool. There you go. So we're in a lounge together. Literally, 891 00:49:21.760 --> 00:49:25.239 we're in the last hanging out. It's nice seeing you, keV. I. 892 00:49:25.559 --> 00:49:28.000 Actually it's too bad. I'm not gonna It's too bad 893 00:49:28.039 --> 00:49:30.840 you're not coming in today in my party. 894 00:49:30.920 --> 00:49:33.960 Yeah I'm coming tomorrow. But no, dude, thank you so 895 00:49:34.039 --> 00:49:37.280 much for having me on the show. Great talk. I 896 00:49:37.320 --> 00:49:41.039 love everything you're doing and I appreciate it. Yeah, we 897 00:49:41.079 --> 00:49:42.840 talk about a million other things. Very easily. 898 00:49:42.840 --> 00:49:44.559 I'm sure i'll see at the next conference. 899 00:49:44.599 --> 00:49:46.880 Maybe i'll see you. I'll be at max log again 900 00:49:47.119 --> 00:49:50.360 and a bunch this year, and then if you've not 901 00:49:50.440 --> 00:49:53.320 been on my podcast, I'll get lutis and ever. 902 00:49:53.519 --> 00:49:56.679 Oh, sure, that'd be fun to do it. Yeah, I'm 903 00:49:56.719 --> 00:49:59.960 looking at uh this time. I think we waited too long. 904 00:50:00.159 --> 00:50:02.760 But my team's going to start now looking to speak 905 00:50:03.360 --> 00:50:06.480 at at conferences again. I missed it, and I think 906 00:50:07.639 --> 00:50:09.360 I just need to get back out on the stages. 907 00:50:09.400 --> 00:50:13.480 I don't like on every single conference, but definitely going 908 00:50:13.519 --> 00:50:16.920 to do something. I think I hope to be speaking 909 00:50:16.960 --> 00:50:20.880 at Filevine this year, and but I'd like to do 910 00:50:20.960 --> 00:50:23.280 some more than just one or two. I think that's 911 00:50:23.280 --> 00:50:27.360 actually the challenge is like you have a topic and 912 00:50:28.119 --> 00:50:30.320 you could spin it, but it takes so much energy 913 00:50:30.360 --> 00:50:33.400 to really do them. Then if you keep switching them. 914 00:50:33.280 --> 00:50:39.400 Around, just have something you can dial in. Yeah, yeah, yeah, 915 00:50:39.480 --> 00:50:41.599 it's Ticon asked me to speak at max lo Con 916 00:50:41.639 --> 00:50:42.199 next year. 917 00:50:42.079 --> 00:50:42.719 So that's cool. 918 00:50:43.440 --> 00:50:45.800 Yeah, and he was like, hey, you can talk about 919 00:50:45.840 --> 00:50:47.039 se O and I was like, well, how about I 920 00:50:47.039 --> 00:50:50.800 don't talk about se O? Yeah, how would we just 921 00:50:50.840 --> 00:50:52.760 talk about not that? And if they want to know 922 00:50:52.760 --> 00:50:54.280 what I do. They'll find the fuck out. 923 00:50:54.400 --> 00:50:55.079 That's funny. 924 00:50:55.519 --> 00:50:57.280 I don't want to be there at pitch festing, you know, 925 00:50:57.480 --> 00:51:01.039 just I can talk about a lot of this se 926 00:51:01.239 --> 00:51:03.920 I'm glad there. Actually I'm glad I'm worse at SEO 927 00:51:04.000 --> 00:51:06.400 than business because my team's good at SEO. 928 00:51:06.519 --> 00:51:09.519 Do right. I hear you, and I think you gave 929 00:51:09.599 --> 00:51:12.199 some tibits for our people, and I appreciate you and 930 00:51:12.199 --> 00:51:14.199 I look forward to coming on your podcast as well. 931 00:51:14.840 --> 00:51:16.519 So we're going to end. 932 00:51:16.360 --> 00:51:21.840 It well, thanks for listening. The Lawman wants to hear 933 00:51:21.840 --> 00:51:23.559 from you, so if you have any questions, give a 934 00:51:23.559 --> 00:51:25.960 shout out. Follow him on Instagram at Bill's a Lawman. 935 00:51:26.760 --> 00:51:30.119 You can also visit the website at www dot Thelawman 936 00:51:30.239 --> 00:51:34.599 dot net and on YouTube at Bill the Lawman umanski 937 00:51:34.880 --> 00:51:36.880 and there'll be placed there where you can ask questions. 938 00:51:36.920 --> 00:51:39.039 And if you have any questions about your business or anything, 939 00:51:39.159 --> 00:51:41.119 just hit them up and we'll try to get an 940 00:51:41.119 --> 00:51:43.239 answer to you. We try to bring the best advice 941 00:51:43.280 --> 00:51:45.679 that we possibly can. And if you thought it was good, 942 00:51:45.840 --> 00:51:47.440 well talk to your friends and we'll see you next 943 00:51:47.440 --> 00:51:47.760 week