Full Transcript for Larry Mullins, Nick Cave & The Bad Seeds / Iggy Pop / Swans / Solo Artist (Part 1)

because I do, play a lot of vibraphone on the records, but yeah, we've talked about actually dragging it out again. 60 00:05:53,610 --> 00:05:55,150 It's a nightmare, but anyway. 61 00:05:55,150 --> 00:05:56,410 I can imagine. 62 00:05:56,410 --> 00:06:04,480 Now, look, that was a pleasant U-turn and we will sort of come back to the other amazing outfits you're a part of, but just coming back to this year. 63 00:06:04,480 --> 00:06:08,642 So 115 shows is absolutely no mean feat in any year. 64 00:06:08,642 --> 00:06:20,045 And then, so how did you find the time to create your current solo album, Camisonia, which I've had the pleasure of listening to through twice in the last 24 hours. 65 00:06:20,045 --> 00:06:22,766 And look, from my viewpoint, it's amazing. 66 00:06:22,766 --> 00:06:31,499 I think the word cinematic is overused in regards to instrumental albums, but it's never been more applicable than what I've heard through these two playthroughs. 67 00:06:31,499 --> 00:06:36,040 But tell us about how that came about and your process to creating it. 68 00:06:36,984 --> 00:06:41,156 Well, that record was sort of in the can, as they say. 69 00:06:41,156 --> 00:06:54,934 was, I made it some years ago and I had one label in Sweden that had wanted to release it and they just never really got it together to go forward with it. 70 00:06:54,934 --> 00:07:03,188 And during that period, I resurrected my old record label with my partner in Hamburg. 71 00:07:03,188 --> 00:07:07,210 And once we got that label up and going again, we started 72 00:07:08,098 --> 00:07:17,604 talking about a next release and I was like, well, that one's been sitting around and I couldn't get the Swedish label to move on it. 73 00:07:17,604 --> 00:07:21,366 And I just told them, well, look, I'm just gonna go ahead and put it out myself. 74 00:07:21,366 --> 00:07:29,821 And so the timing of it, we just slotted it right in here in between the Swans tour and the Bad Seats tour. 75 00:07:29,821 --> 00:07:34,534 But that record was mastered and in the box, like, you know. 76 00:07:34,670 --> 00:07:35,460 some years ago. 77 00:07:35,460 --> 00:07:36,770 So it was just sitting ready to go. 78 00:07:36,770 --> 00:07:39,890 We had the artwork all planned out and everything. 79 00:07:39,890 --> 00:07:41,390 it was kind of easy. 80 00:07:41,390 --> 00:07:44,070 I have to say it still sounds very, very fresh. 81 00:07:44,070 --> 00:07:45,630 I was unaware of that, Larry. 82 00:07:45,630 --> 00:07:47,080 So yeah, look, it's amazing. 83 00:07:47,080 --> 00:07:48,220 We'll link to it in the show notes. 84 00:07:48,220 --> 00:07:51,750 I think it releases, it's the 13th of September, I think. 85 00:07:51,750 --> 00:07:52,140 Yep. 86 00:07:52,140 --> 00:07:54,390 It'll be out in six days. 87 00:07:54,870 --> 00:07:55,350 Yeah. 88 00:07:55,350 --> 00:08:02,430 So no, we'll definitely, it's just for that, for those obviously that haven't listened, well, you will have

the opportunity to listen to it by the time this goes live. 89 00:08:02,430 --> 00:08:04,050 It's just, 90 00:08:04,118 --> 00:08:08,200 Well, actually, should get you to describe, would you describe the album as being like? 91 00:08:08,860 --> 00:08:19,685 Well, first off, it's not going to be like anything anyone might be expecting from me anyway, if anyone is expecting anything from me. 92 00:08:19,685 --> 00:08:25,248 But there are no acoustic instruments on the record, to be clear. 93 00:08:25,248 --> 00:08:31,156 And that was because at the time I was in an opera in Vienna. 94 00:08:31,156 --> 00:08:42,352 And I was a big opera and I was working in the the Bergtheater, which is the largest German speaking opera house in the world. 95 00:08:43,193 --> 00:08:54,519 so, and I had been in a large production there and the pandemic happened. 96 00:08:54,519 --> 00:08:59,738 And early, as you may recall, I don't like to talk too much about that. 97 00:08:59,738 --> 00:09:07,383 But as you may recall, it kind of started around the border of Italy, Austria, or that was when it was first detected. 98 00:09:07,383 --> 00:09:16,359 So it kind of hit the news in Austria, you know, really early on before anyone knew anything about any of this stuff. 99 00:09:16,359 --> 00:09:18,611 And, and I didn't know what was going on. 100 00:09:18,611 --> 00:09:24,495 And the first thing they did was they closed the border of Austria and Italy. 101 00:09:24,495 --> 00:09:26,196 And I thought, wow, that's really crazy. 102 00:09:26,196 --> 00:09:27,727 Like, how can they do that? 103 00:09:27,727 --> 00:09:29,288 Why would they do that? 104 00:09:29,806 --> 00:09:32,687 but they were onto it early on, early. 105 00:09:33,287 --> 00:09:39,409 so Austria also has like the largest theater culture in the world. 106 00:09:39,409 --> 00:09:40,769 It's a big thing. 107 00:09:40,769 --> 00:09:44,250 It's integrated into the fabric of Austrian culture. 108 00:09:44,250 --> 00:09:49,071 Like everyone is always going to the theater several times a night. 109 00:09:49,071 --> 00:09:54,073 Like it's normal there still and big support for it. 110 00:09:54,073 --> 00:09:57,113 Well, that whole industry closed. 111 00:09:58,646 --> 00:10:02,007 right off the bat, they closed all the theater. 112 00:10:02,027 --> 00:10:07,290 And that was alarming, you know, for like, like, whoa, I mean, how can they do that? 113 00:10:07,290 --> 00:10:22,526 And, but so in the course of that, I had an enormous amount of instruments in that theater production and the entire orchestra pit of the Berg was full of just me. 114 00:10:22,526 --> 00:10:27,678 It was like all, had a huge amount of drums and synthesizers and gongs and 115 00:10:27,744 --> 00:10:35,735 huge array of stuff and that was all in the orchestra pit and they closed the theater and I couldn't get to anything. 116 00:10:35,735 --> 00:10:38,157 It was just like that for months. 117 00:10:38,557 --> 00:10:50,300 And I had an apartment in Vienna and I had, know, just for the hell of it when I came to Vienna, I brought a couple of suitcases of electronics that I had just in my store, stored 118 00:10:50,300 --> 00:10:56,832 in my apartment thinking, if I get bored at one point, maybe I'll pull that stuff out, you know. 119 00:10:57,182 --> 00:11:00,485 and, you know, try and put something together. 120 00:11:00,485 --> 00:11:13,806 Well, you know, as the the reality of it all unfolded, I did unpack all that stuff at one point and just decided to to try to make a setup on my dining room table and just sort of 121 00:11:13,806 --> 00:11:16,037 see what I could come up with. 122 00:11:16,238 --> 00:11:19,540 And so I set those that stuff up. 123 00:11:19,540 --> 00:11:26,680 And I was watching a lot of sci fi films at the time because it was such a sci fi. 124 00:11:26,680 --> 00:11:39,173 time and I was reading a lot of books and I had a big stack of books and I was reading in the daytime and watching sci-fi films at nighttime and then after about a week of that I 125 00:11:39,173 --> 00:11:48,016 got a buzz in my head to start, I got a direction, I got a vision and I started recording these little vignettes. 126 00:11:48,256 --> 00:11:56,138 I would call them vignettes, like these sort of synthesizer vignettes with what I had and 127 00:11:56,762 --> 00:12:06,465 I was trying to make little vignettes that reflected scenes from this book I was reading at the time. 128 00:12:06,465 --> 00:12:13,787 And I got obsessed with this German writer named Adelbert von Chimiso. 129 00:12:15,987 --> 00:12:19,268 And he wrote a book, loosely translated in English. 130 00:12:19,268 --> 00:12:26,130 I mean, there many translations of the book, but the English translation was called The Man Who Had No Shadow. 131 00:12:26,130 --> 00:12:39,875 And a brief synopsis of that story is it's more or less a folk tale about a character who sells his unknowingly, unwittingly, sells his soul to the devil. 132 00:12:41,656 --> 00:12:55,572 And it's an incredible folk tale about the reality of how this character discovers what he's actually done and how he spends the rest of his living days trying to 133 00:12:55,572 --> 00:13:03,745 outrun and hide from the devil and is coming up with all these bizarre adventures. 134 00:13:03,745 --> 00:13:12,469 And so a lot of these little pieces of music are sort of, and the song titles and everything are all kind of based around scenes from that book. 135 00:13:12,829 --> 00:13:13,469 There you go. 136 00:13:13,469 --> 00:13:21,032 And so that explains, Larry, why I mentioned the cinematic quality, because it had the real feel of a continuity and having a story. 137 00:13:21,933 --> 00:13:24,954 And even down to the final track, before we move on, 138 00:13:25,134 --> 00:13:30,354 Is it fair to say there's a bit of a, even a jazz vibe in that escape from the white bear song at the end? 139 00:13:30,354 -->

00:13:33,294 Like it's beautiful way to finish it up. 140 00:13:33,354 --> 00:13:34,474 A jazz vibe. 141 00:13:34,474 --> 00:13:35,594 I don't know. 142 00:13:35,594 --> 00:13:42,014 mean, I, certainly didn't have, like I said, I didn't have access to any acoustic instruments. 143 00:13:42,634 --> 00:13:51,864 the, all I had was I had a system one Omni-Core OM two, two, two seven from 1981. 144 00:13:51,864 --> 00:13:54,234 I had that and, 145 00:13:54,508 --> 00:13:56,198 which I use a lot. 146 00:13:56,198 --> 00:14:07,432 I know that instrument really well and it has a beautiful, simple analog drum machine in it that sounds really great and punchy, but there are no cymbals or anything in that 147 00:14:07,432 --> 00:14:08,482 machine. 148 00:14:08,542 --> 00:14:15,544 So it's very dry and ultra minimal and I liked it. 149 00:14:16,104 --> 00:14:20,605 But I was able to, of course, like manipulate some of the programming. 150 00:14:20,605 --> 00:14:24,346 had a laptop and so I could design 151 00:14:25,190 --> 00:14:31,050 more elaborate arrangements of the drum programming of what is available out of that Omnicorn. 152 00:14:31,050 --> 00:14:34,510 But I just stuck with the sounds from it. 153 00:14:35,330 --> 00:14:46,150 and, you know, I had my Casio MT-55, which is the same period, like 1981, you know, it's a 40, it's a $40 Casio. 154 00:14:46,150 --> 00:14:51,838 I had that and I had my Moog, but, you know, when I took all those 155 00:14:52,374 --> 00:15:03,928 song when I took all that stuff back to Berlin, you know, when the borders opened up again, I worked with one engineer in Berlin that I've been working with him for over 25 156 00:15:03,928 --> 00:15:04,334 years. 157 00:15:04,334 --> 00:15:06,305 He and I've been working together. 158 00:15:06,445 --> 00:15:16,853 His name is Ingo Kraus and he has a studio there called Candy Bomber and he and I are kind of joined at the hip at this point in terms of how we work. 159 00:15:17,034 --> 00:15:22,466 and I told him when I got back, I'm like, I've got this record and I just want to 160 00:15:22,466 --> 00:15:29,572 I want to go right in and mix it right now and just get it over with and just put it away. 161 00:15:29,926 --> 00:15:46,116 But I wanted to stay away from the temptation of adding acoustic instruments onto it because I a 20 square meter space in Berlin completely filled with symphonic acoustic 162 00:15:46,116 --> 00:15:48,929 percussion and organs. 163 00:15:48,929 --> 00:15:51,060 I could go wild adding. 164 00:15:51,146 --> 00:15:54,509 all kinds of, you know, full spectrum arrangements. 165 00:15:54,509 --> 00:15:55,970 And I just didn't want to do it. 166 00:15:55,970 --> 00:16:11,983 And I wanted to keep it just like it was, but, but he has, he has an unbelievable array of reverb units and reverb chambers and like the nicest stuff that can be found. 167 00:16:11,983 --> 00:16:18,458 And he has everything, all the, all the original EMT giant

plates and all he has stereo pairs of everything. 168 00:16:18,458 --> 00:16:19,149 And, 169 00:16:20,982 --> 00:16:33,900 So I had sort of taken a lot of that Omnicor drum programming and separated some parts of it that we could fire into the reverb plates in different ways and use the reverb plates 170 00:16:33,900 --> 00:16:37,071 as symbols, like in a drum set. 171 00:16:37,672 --> 00:16:47,832 So that's why you hear all these crazy explosions of, it's like bizarre reverb ignitions that were, I tried to program. 172 00:16:47,832 --> 00:16:51,523 program them like I would have used as symbols. 173 00:16:51,523 --> 00:16:57,945 So that's why it has this weird, it has a really weird sound to it, the whole record from that. 174 00:16:58,085 --> 00:17:00,265 So, no, it's it's amazing. 175 00:17:00,265 --> 00:17:03,895 And it's a very full sound even in spite of the space you've created within it. 176 00:17:03,895 --> 00:17:04,884 It's yeah, just amazing. 177 00:17:04,884 --> 00:17:07,637 I said, we'll certainly be linking, linking to it. 178 00:17:07,637 --> 00:17:11,629 So you've, mentioned symphonic instruments, Larry and percussion. 179 00:17:11,629 --> 00:17:16,430 I'm keen to start, go back a few decades to your childhood and upbringing. 180 00:17:16,430 --> 00:17:17,282 I know 181 00:17:17,282 --> 00:17:19,343 rhythm was central to your musical upbringing. 182 00:17:19,343 --> 00:17:22,295 So just tell us a little bit about those early years. 183 00:17:22,295 --> 00:17:28,800 And I believe you studied, for example, the timpani and rhythm for about 10 years of being relatively young. 184 00:17:28,800 --> 00:17:30,471 So tell us a bit about that. 185 00:17:30,891 --> 00:17:31,872 Yeah, that's true. 186 00:17:31,872 --> 00:17:44,851 That's how I got into playing music because I had a best friend in grammar school who was a drummer and he was trying to get me to, we were both already kind of collecting records 187 00:17:44,851 --> 00:17:46,282 as kids and 188 00:17:47,200 --> 00:17:50,532 And he got me into auditioning for the school band. 189 00:17:50,653 --> 00:17:59,560 And I went in having no idea what to do, but because he was a drummer, I just figured, well, I'll go into that because we could, you know, at least hang out and stuff. 190 00:17:59,641 --> 00:18:11,420 So, I met this incredible music teacher who auditioned me and he, you know, he put me through the whole, line of symphonic percussion instruments there. 191 00:18:11,420 --> 00:18:15,786 think we started with timpani and I just kind of naturally took to it. 192 00:18:15,786 --> 00:18:17,047 man, God bless him. 193 00:18:17,047 --> 00:18:28,786 His name is Ken Jarnigan and he's still around and he saw something in me from the beginning and he just like focused on me. 194 00:18:28,786 --> 00:18:34,935 I got in the band and he just started giving, first thing he did was he started giving me a lot of books to read. 195 00:18:34,935 --> 00:18:42,868 He knew I was really into reading and he gave me biographies to read about Bach and Mozart and 196 00:18:42,990 --> 00:19:00,490 Burley, all the great European classical composers, Haydn and you know, so, and so I read all the books on those guys and that just, and he was right though, because like learning 197 00:19:00,490 --> 00:19:12,588 about their lives, like when he would, know, today we're gonna work on this piece by Bach, you know, and he gave me books, a timpani, I started studying timpani from Bach. 198 00:19:12,588 --> 00:19:24,556 which was like fairly simple writing, but I just ate it alive, you know, because having the connection from reading about their lives kind of got me under the skin of that stuff. 199 00:19:24,556 --> 00:19:34,293 And I became really successful as a symphonic percussionist going into competitions and stuff like that. 200 00:19:34,293 --> 00:19:40,096 He would send me all over the place in regional competitions and I was just winning everywhere. 201 00:19:40,158 --> 00:19:42,158 And I got really into it. 202 00:19:42,158 --> 00:19:48,528 And I never wanted to play drum set, you know, like in a rock and roll context or anything. 203 00:19:48,528 --> 00:19:53,698 But then I, later on, I kind of got plugged into punk rock and everything like that. 204 00:19:53,698 --> 00:20:01,618 And I got really way into punk rock and joined, I got a drum set and joined a punk band when I was 14. 205 00:20:01,758 --> 00:20:05,678 And I just went down that, I just shifted gears and went down that road. 206 00:20:05,678 --> 00:20:11,348 I ended up dropping out of the whole classical field. 207 00:20:11,348 --> 00:20:27,281 and went hog wild into punk, punk bands and you know, it me to come back around and join the two, but I eventually did really with with Gerard with Michael Gerard. 208 00:20:27,281 --> 00:20:36,338 He, he knew that I had that background and he was the one that really wanted me to go back and pull in. 209 00:20:36,620 --> 00:20:41,174 what I knew how to do with that and utilize it all in swans. 210 00:20:41,174 --> 00:20:42,274 It definitely paid off. 211 00:20:42,274 --> 00:20:46,978 And so I do want to talk about your transition into punk rock. 212 00:20:46,978 --> 00:20:53,123 And I apologize if you've had to tell this story a bunch of times as I imagine you have, but it is an amazing one. 213 00:20:53,123 --> 00:21:02,450 And that's as a teenager, your odyssey following Iggy Pop around Ohio and just the story around that, because it is a really amazing story. 214 00:21:02,670 --> 00:21:07,750 Yeah, it's a bit frightening, but anyway, at least I can say it happened a long time ago when I was a kid. 215 00:21:07,750 --> 00:21:14,950 But I didn't know any better, but I was a huge fan of all of Stooges music. 216 00:21:14,950 --> 00:21:20,050 I discovered Stooges when I was a teenager and Iggy. 217 00:21:20,670 --> 00:21:25,290 again, as a record collector, I had all that stuff. 218

00:21:25,290 --> 00:21:28,810 And at the time, I guess I was really, I'd seen him. 219 00:21:28,810 --> 00:21:32,210 I saw him play in 1982. 220 00:21:32,590 --> 00:21:41,538 And, you know, so I, but I knew kind of what he was and he had gone into a hiatus for a period of time. 221 00:21:41,538 --> 00:21:43,320 He sort of disappeared. 222 00:21:43,320 --> 00:21:53,989 I didn't realize it, but he was cleaning up, you know, he was getting off drugs and he'd married this Japanese woman and had gone through a period of solitude. 223 00:21:53,989 --> 00:22:00,194 And he had just come out of retirement and with a new record and, or not retirement, but that period. 224 00:22:00,214 --> 00:22:02,836 And he had a new record and it got me really excited. 225 00:22:02,836 --> 00:22:05,938 And, and I went to go see him. 226 00:22:06,099 --> 00:22:08,521 I saw a couple of shows on that tour. 227 00:22:08,521 --> 00:22:16,027 I guess that was around 84 or 85 and, or was it 86 somewhere around there. 228 00:22:16,047 --> 00:22:29,758 And, it must've been 86 and, and I just, I was really super disappointed with his band and, and how, what it all, how it was being done. 229 00:22:29,868 --> 00:22:30,798 I didn't like it. 230 00:22:30,798 --> 00:22:39,861 And I felt, and I also knew that he had switched drummers in the middle of the tour, which I knew was a big problem. 231 00:22:39,861 --> 00:22:42,072 And I just sensed a huge problem. 232 00:22:42,072 --> 00:22:50,444 And the fella that he had at the time I saw, it just seemed like he had no idea like how that stuff was supposed to be played or done. 233 00:22:50,624 --> 00:22:53,225 There was, just all seemed all wrong. 234 00:22:53,225 --> 00:22:57,486 And me being a teenage, you know, aspiring. 235 00:22:58,562 --> 00:23:03,165 I just got the idea that I knew what it would take to fix it all. 236 00:23:03,165 --> 00:23:09,308 I thought, I know how I could set this all right. 237 00:23:09,309 --> 00:23:14,531 There was a constellation of shows in Ohio that he was touring with the pretenders. 238 00:23:14,632 --> 00:23:17,743 And I thought, well, that's not so far away. 239 00:23:17,743 --> 00:23:23,637 I grew up in Knoxville, Tennessee, and I saw those shows in Memphis and Nashville. 240 00:23:23,637 --> 00:23:25,928 And I thought, I'm going to go back to Knoxville. 241 00:23:25,944 --> 00:23:32,878 put my drums in the car and drive up to Ohio, buy tickets to all those shows. 242 00:23:32,899 --> 00:23:45,567 And so I'd made a bunch of sort of demo cassettes and I wrote a bunch of handwritten letters to Iggy and very personal sort of telling him about how I grew up and what I knew 243 00:23:45,567 --> 00:23:55,882 about music and what I knew about his past and his arc of music and how I thought I could 244 00:23:55,882 --> 00:24:01,245 sort of set things in a better direction for him right now. 245 00:24:01,285 --> 00:24:05,918 And I had even said, you know, look, I've got my drums in the car. 246 00:24:05,918 --> 00:24:18,875 If you really want to challenge me on this, I can set the drums up in the parking lot and show you that I know how to do this the way you want or the way I thought he wants. 247 00:24:19,735 --> 00:24:24,998 and, you know, and I put together probably like 10 packages or something, you know. 248 00:24:25,066 --> 00:24:36,633 And I went and I would give these packages to his crew on the stage and his bus driver, everyone that I could find that was in the production. 249 00:24:36,633 --> 00:24:40,035 and, know, nothing was happening. 250 00:24:40,035 --> 00:24:49,333 You know, I was sleeping in the front seat of my car every night and going to these shows and, you know, I did all I could and, I was running out of money. 251 00:24:49,333 --> 00:24:53,532 And at one point I just thought, well, this is all I can't do anymore of this, you know. 252 00:24:54,136 --> 00:24:56,848 this will be the last show and I'll go back. 253 00:24:56,888 --> 00:25:11,911 And that night, either before or after that show, of his roadies that I had talked to found me out in the audience of about five or 6,000 people. 254 00:25:11,911 --> 00:25:20,628 This guy walked up to me, who since has become a great dear friend of mine and was my drum tech with Iggy for 12 years. 255 00:25:20,628 --> 00:25:23,040 anyway, that guy came up to me. 256 00:25:23,214 --> 00:25:32,634 Josh and he came up and more or less told me that I needed to, you know, get lost and not do this anymore and go away or more or less nice about it. 257 00:25:32,634 --> 00:25:39,214 But, you know, there was a, there was an undertone of, you know, possible violence. 258 00:25:39,614 --> 00:25:52,142 So I left, but that show that night, Iggy had every night in those, in his, in his shows, Iggy was always breaking the band down and doing this sort of 259 00:25:52,142 --> 00:25:58,662 stream of consciousness talking about whatever he had been reading about or seen on television. 260 00:25:58,662 --> 00:26:01,502 It was in the song TVI. 261 00:26:02,262 --> 00:26:11,302 this night, he suddenly started talking about everything that I was writing in my letters, exactly, word for word. 262 00:26:11,302 --> 00:26:20,646 And I heard him saying that about growing up in a small town and trying to figure out how to get out, not knowing how to get out. 263 00:26:20,790 --> 00:26:34,284 reaching you're reaching out for what you believe in and the only thing you have is a car and just driving after what you believe in and and I was like, my god, he he has Read my 264 00:26:34,284 --> 00:26:47,697 letters and it really touched me really connected with me and but I again I just felt like I'd reached the end of the rope and it was time to go but I knew that I had made a 265 00:26:47,697 --> 00:26:49,738 connection with him and 266 00:26:49,738 --> 00:26:50,869 It really freaked me out. 267 00:26:50,869 --> 00:26:58,183 And I went back to Tennessee and, and I

thought about it and I thought, well, you know, maybe there's more to that. 268 00:26:58,183 --> 00:27:00,934 Like, maybe this is the way I'm going to get out of here. 269 00:27:00,934 --> 00:27:08,729 And so I, I decided to write letters to other people that I, that I was inspired by that. 270 00:27:08,729 --> 00:27:14,422 And I thought, maybe I can get a connection with somebody else that will lead me somewhere out of here. 271 00:27:14,422 --> 00:27:16,593 And so I wrote a few other interesting people. 272 00:27:16,593 --> 00:27:18,144 wrote Adrian Ballou. 273 00:27:18,464 --> 00:27:22,006 I wrote, I got addresses to these people back in those days. 274 00:27:22,006 --> 00:27:24,988 This is in the eighties, like long before the internet or anything. 275 00:27:24,988 --> 00:27:36,124 And I wrote XTC, I wrote Andy Partridge and I wrote, and I wrote a guy named Greg Ginn who had black flag, you know, from SST records. 276 00:27:36,604 --> 00:27:38,665 And, I don't know. 277 00:27:38,665 --> 00:27:47,050 It wasn't long afterwards, two or three weeks after I'd sent all those letters out, like Adrian blue's manager called me and. 278 00:27:47,328 --> 00:27:52,082 asked me to come back up to Ohio where Adrian lived and meet with his man. 279 00:27:52,082 --> 00:27:54,003 I drove up and met him. 280 00:27:55,925 --> 00:27:59,578 Adrian was working with a bunch of high school friends of his. 281 00:27:59,578 --> 00:28:00,649 had a band together. 282 00:28:00,649 --> 00:28:05,413 So there was just no future in that. 283 00:28:05,494 --> 00:28:08,636 And it wasn't long after that Greg Ginn called me. 284 00:28:09,457 --> 00:28:15,321 And he's like, I've been listening to your tapes and got your letter. 285 00:28:16,000 --> 00:28:22,975 I see you're thinking of moving to Los Angeles and he's like, what would it take for you to leave now? 286 00:28:22,975 --> 00:28:24,346 And I'm like, well, what do you mean? 287 00:28:24,346 --> 00:28:24,517 No. 288 00:28:24,517 --> 00:28:28,499 He's like, could you leave tomorrow and come out here tomorrow? 289 00:28:28,660 --> 00:28:35,545 I'm like, well, you know, I said, I've just been saving up money and he's like, well, I want you to leave now. 290 00:28:35,545 --> 00:28:36,942 He's like, how much money? 291 00:28:36,942 --> 00:28:38,842 do you need for you to leave now? 292 00:28:38,842 --> 00:28:39,922 And I was so naive. 293 00:28:39,922 --> 00:28:43,802 think I said, I think I need like $400 for gas or something. 294 00:28:43,802 --> 00:28:46,782 He's like, well, look, I'm going to wire that to you. 295 00:28:46,782 --> 00:28:52,302 Now you'll have it in one hour and I want you to leave tomorrow. 296 00:28:52,302 --> 00:28:52,912 Wow. 297 00:28:52,912 --> 00:28:55,802 And I was like, my God, I'm okay. 298 00:28:55,802 --> 00:28:56,842 He did it. 299 00:28:56,842 --> 00:29:04,142 I had the money and I got a friend of mine to join me for the drive and I left town the next day and I

never went back. 300 00:29:04,142 --> 00:29:05,574 never moved back. 301 00:29:05,966 --> 00:29:08,006 You know, changed my life forever. 302 00:29:08,006 --> 00:29:16,346 And I drove across the country to Los Angeles and I moved in with Greg and played with Greg for a month. 303 00:29:16,346 --> 00:29:23,586 And we tried to start a new band after Black Flag, but it just wasn't really going. 304 00:29:23,726 --> 00:29:26,186 It was, it was going too slow for me. 305 00:29:26,186 --> 00:29:30,020 I was really having a hard time dealing with the pace. 306 00:29:30,548 --> 00:29:31,879 And it was a hell of a week. 307 00:29:31,879 --> 00:29:36,301 I think we were rehearsing eight hours a day, seven days a week. 308 00:29:36,542 --> 00:29:41,304 It was serious, like hardcore work. 309 00:29:41,304 --> 00:29:45,327 Anyway, I know this is a long segment. 310 00:29:45,327 --> 00:29:51,810 Well, I was going to say, Larry, what do you think Greg saw in you that made him so keen to have you leave so soon? 311 00:29:51,810 --> 00:29:54,291 Well, it was the passion in your letter. 312 00:29:54,472 --> 00:29:55,553 What do you think it was? 313 00:29:55,553 --> 00:29:57,994 Did you discuss that with him after the fact? 314 00:29:58,254 --> 00:30:08,794 I'm not sure exactly what it was, but something either that I wrote or that he heard triggered something in him and he was into it 100%. 315 00:30:08,794 --> 00:30:14,894 And I met him, you know, like I'm like, okay, I'm coming. 316 00:30:14,894 --> 00:30:17,454 I drove out there and moved in with him. 317 00:30:17,454 --> 00:30:22,354 And suddenly the next day, I think the very next day we started rehearsing. 318 00:30:22,354 --> 00:30:23,434 Wow. 319 00:30:23,714 --> 00:30:26,844 And Greg, you know, is an incredible guitar player. 320 00:30:26,844 --> 00:30:28,294 And I just... 321 00:30:28,628 --> 00:30:30,490 adored the way he played guitar. 322 00:30:30,490 --> 00:30:34,322 He was like a John Coltrane type character for me. 323 00:30:35,364 --> 00:30:37,405 But he wanted to play bass. 324 00:30:38,286 --> 00:30:43,770 so we were playing bass and drums, no guitar for a month. 325 00:30:44,111 --> 00:30:53,959 And I was like, God, know, what do you think about you switching to guitar and us finding a bass player and getting a trio going? 326 00:30:53,959 --> 00:30:55,290 And he was like, I don't know. 327 00:30:55,290 --> 00:30:57,794 I'm not sure if we were there yet. 328 00:30:57,794 --> 00:31:09,815 God, he recorded everything we did and he would record eight hours of us jamming and then come back to his apartment that night in his office and he would stay up all night 329 00:31:09,815 --> 00:31:12,027 listening to what we had done that day. 330 00:31:12,027 --> 00:31:16,130 And was like, my God, this is so intense. 331 00:31:16,251 --> 00:31:17,552 I don't know where it's going. 332 00:31:17,552 --> 00:31:24,337 I was really lost in a blur of what he was up to. 333 00:31:25,590 --> 00:31:27,650 And it wore me out, I think. 334 00:31:28,471 --> 00:31:32,172 just, I'm like, I have to move on. 335 00:31:32,772 --> 00:31:40,294 I moved out and I ended up getting in another band, another punk band in LA called Texan the Horseheads. 336 00:31:40,834 --> 00:31:52,767 And that was, that was with Texakala Jones, this legendary punk singer and a guitar player named Dave Catching who has gone on, you know, he was in Queens of the Stone Age and he's 337 00:31:52,767 --> 00:31:55,368 the guitar player in Eagles of Death Metal. 338 00:31:55,438 --> 00:31:59,478 And he owns that recording studio out in Joshua Tree. 339 00:32:01,458 --> 00:32:08,428 And, you know, so I moved in with Dave at that time and we were going at it for a while. 340 00:32:08,428 --> 00:32:20,438 And then I was out in a, we were playing around and there was a guitar player who was coming, who had sort of been stalking me a bit, wanting to rehearse together, jam 341 00:32:20,438 --> 00:32:21,578 together. 342 00:32:22,478 --> 00:32:23,152 And, 343 00:32:23,316 --> 00:32:34,472 I didn't really have the time to do it and we were talking one night and he had told me that he said, have you ever heard of this singer named Iggy Pop? 344 00:32:34,586 --> 00:32:36,374 I'm like, yeah, of course. 345 00:32:36,374 --> 00:32:44,939 And I proceeded to tell him about what I had done about a year before or a year and a half before. 346 00:32:45,219 --> 00:32:50,082 And I'm like, yeah, like if you talk to him, I said, look, I know he. 347 00:32:50,432 --> 00:33:02,080 remembers who I am because I've just seen him live on the David Letterman show and David Letterman had asked him, you know, I noticed you always change your musicians every 348 00:33:02,080 --> 00:33:04,812 record, you know, I'm like, I'm curious, how do you find people? 349 00:33:04,812 --> 00:33:07,725 Do you put ads out in the newspaper or what do you do? 350 00:33:07,725 --> 00:33:12,736 And he's like, no, there's always people that are coming around that want to play and 351 00:33:12,736 --> 00:33:19,370 You know, even last year there was this drummer that had been following me around and he proceeded to tell the story to David Letterman. 352 00:33:19,370 --> 00:33:21,282 I was, I saw that on television. 353 00:33:21,282 --> 00:33:23,673 I was like, my God. 354 00:33:24,294 --> 00:33:28,277 I really, I really got to him and he remembers. 355 00:33:28,277 --> 00:33:39,824 And, so I told this guy, if you get a chance to talk to him, you should tell him that, you know, the guy who did that because, I'm here and, you know, that'll probably get him 356 00:33:39,824 --> 00:33:42,726 laughing and you you guys can talk and stuff. 357 00:33:42,920 --> 00:33:55,712 And well, anyway, the next morning or the next day when I came home from work, I had a message on my answering machine for Miggie saying that he wanted me to, here's my phone 358 00:33:55,712 --> 00:33:57,033 number, call

me right now. 359 00:33:57,033 --> 00:34:01,810 And so I called him and he was like, look, I want you to come down. 360 00:34:01,810 --> 00:34:09,734 I'm trying to put a new band together for this record and I don't have a band and I want you to come down tomorrow and let's play and see how it goes. 361 00:34:10,730 --> 00:34:18,226 So I went down and of course we hit it off like I knew we would and we connected and then I was with him every day for the next nine years. 362 00:34:18,226 --> 00:34:20,898 Yeah, absolutely. 363 00:34:20,898 --> 00:34:28,233 And so I do want, I do Larry want to talk, obviously that's an enormous component of your career, those nine years. 364 00:34:28,233 --> 00:34:34,188 And I'm interested, understanding that you're not playing keyboards is very much a drumming thing, but it's still incredibly important. 365 00:34:34,188 --> 00:34:37,650 What did you learn over those nine years? 366 00:34:37,844 --> 00:34:40,595 about life performance and being a musician. 367 00:34:40,595 --> 00:34:42,935 must've been an enormous learning curve. 368 00:34:43,456 --> 00:34:55,299 It was because as all of your listeners probably know, Iggy is probably the greatest living stage performer going today. 369 00:34:55,359 --> 00:35:05,992 But he was, so when I, he was in his forties when I started playing with him and he was, he had recently cleaned up from drugs and alcohol. 370 00:35:05,992 --> 00:35:07,522 And so he was 371 00:35:07,788 --> 00:35:10,934 physically at the peak of his lifetime. 372 00:35:10,934 --> 00:35:28,516 He was incredibly physically fit and incredibly dangerous physically dangerous on stage and like never before possibly because he was so physically coherent and muscular and so 373 00:35:29,678 --> 00:35:34,452 our shows were like a rocket to the moon, you know. 374 00:35:34,720 --> 00:35:40,915 like a nonstop one and a half hour run for your life performance, every show. 375 00:35:41,756 --> 00:35:49,223 And so what I learned, the main thing that I learned from him was adrenaline management. 376 00:35:50,184 --> 00:35:52,726 Adrenaline management, that's what I call it. 377 00:35:52,726 --> 00:36:01,854 Like James Williamson called it the war zone, but I called it adrenaline management, which is peak, maximum peak adrenaline. 378 00:36:02,458 --> 00:36:08,761 And learning how to stay focused and clear headed all the time. 379 00:36:08,761 --> 00:36:24,517 Not losing, not losing control of your, like maintaining your physical arc or whatever like that through a one and a half hour run, run for your life, you know, not losing your, 380 00:36:24,787 --> 00:36:27,278 your balance or anything like that. 381 00:36:27,278 --> 00:36:32,370 Staying focused to keep it together because he's completely out of his mind. 382 00:36:32,538 --> 00:36:35,700 Yeah, you know, he's like one of the great performers. 383 00:36:35,700 --> 00:36:49,227 mean, all opera for opera performers, any great singer that I've ever encountered or worked with, they go through a physical metamorphosis about one hour before going on stage 384 00:36:49,347 --> 00:36:54,510 where they transform into something else. 385 00:36:55,451 --> 00:36:59,392 They're not who they normally are in life. 386 00:36:59,433 --> 00:37:02,102 They transform into another 387 00:37:02,102 --> 00:37:09,580 being another energy, another body, another thing that has superpowers. 388 00:37:11,662 --> 00:37:15,183 And when they go on stage, they're that. 389 00:37:15,484 --> 00:37:18,285 And that's what people pay money to see. 390 00:37:18,285 --> 00:37:20,046 That's what people are drawn to. 391 00:37:20,046 --> 00:37:24,177 That's what people are fascinated with when they're looking at the stage. 392 00:37:24,177 --> 00:37:28,609 They see that, whatever that is, that other thing. 393 00:37:28,609 --> 00:37:35,252 And when they come off stage, takes them about an hour, maybe two hours, to come down. 394 00:37:35,292 --> 00:37:39,726 And then they go back to what they were. 395 00:37:39,726 --> 00:37:47,526 like Superman or something, know, Clark Kent, you know, or Batman or whatever. 396 00:37:47,526 --> 00:37:49,406 You know, it's like this transition. 397 00:37:49,406 --> 00:37:53,046 And that's what makes, that's what these great performers are. 398 00:37:53,046 --> 00:37:59,226 They have that ability to metamorphosize into a butterfly or whatever. 399 00:37:59,226 --> 00:38:01,096 And now they're not, you know, they're back. 400 00:38:01,096 --> 00:38:05,506 And it's like, it's an amazing thing to behold, be a part of. 401 00:38:05,506 --> 00:38:08,724 And I learned all about that with Eddie. 402 00:38:09,410 --> 00:38:16,997 And I mean, I assume Larry, obviously, in the early years, part of that metamorphosis was drug assisted. 403 00:38:16,997 --> 00:38:22,231 Like a lot of musicians, as you said, that adrenaline and the calm down is incredibly hard to work through. 404 00:38:22,231 --> 00:38:27,667 And he obviously had to work out ways of doing that with things other than drugs, which is impressive on its own. 405 00:38:27,667 --> 00:38:29,290 Yeah, that's for sure. 406 00:38:29,290 --> 00:38:35,954 That's what a lot of that's when a lot of people resort to alcohol and 407 00:38:36,640 --> 00:38:42,193 Downers and things like that would be after, you know, the years to come down off this adrenaline thing. 408 00:38:42,193 --> 00:38:57,021 But, in, reality, I don't think that the drugs people under the influence of drugs participating in that chain, it's, if anything, I would say the drugs blur that that it's 409 00:38:57,021 --> 00:39:04,805 when the, when the performers are really straight and clear and they could do that's, that's just incredible. 410 00:39:04,805 --> 00:39:05,230 Yeah. 411 00:39:05,230 --> 00:39:06,470 I 412 00:39:07,106 --> 00:39:10,097 But you know, it's a thing that you join with them. 413 00:39:10,097 --> 00:39:25,554 it's like, and

so when you have a performer on the physical scale of Iggy, which is going to be a maximum, you know, like, and you have to maintain that energy on drums, you know, 414 00:39:26,795 --> 00:39:31,437 that's an intense physical experience. 415 00:39:33,262 --> 00:39:43,322 You mentioned in your bio Larry on that, that you know all those years touring with Iggy, you learnt lots about the ups and downs of touring and yeah the pure energy you have to 416 00:39:43,322 --> 00:39:53,302 put forward as a drummer and we'll certainly be linking to the amazing live show in I think it was in Paris in 1991 I think it was that was recorded like you can see the energy 417 00:39:53,302 --> 00:39:53,732 is there. 418 00:39:53,732 --> 00:39:58,702 What were the ups and downs of touring that stood out for you now looking back? 419 00:39:58,942 --> 00:40:00,301 Well the ups and downs 420 00:40:00,301 --> 00:40:06,161 Well, it can be things like personal relationships that will dissolve because you're not around. 421 00:40:07,091 --> 00:40:13,041 it will be, you know, I would like the first tour I did with Iggy was for 12 months. 422 00:40:13,041 --> 00:40:14,941 I was gone for 12 months. 423 00:40:14,941 --> 00:40:18,581 The second tour I did with him, I was gone for 18 months. 424 00:40:18,661 --> 00:40:21,341 It's just, you know, I don't know. 425 00:40:21,341 --> 00:40:24,041 did a hundred, 700 shows with him or something. 426 00:40:24,041 --> 00:40:25,921 It's like, you're just one. 427 00:40:25,921 --> 00:40:27,041 You're just gone. 428 00:40:27,041 --> 00:40:29,603 You're like a sailor or whatever, you know? 429 00:40:30,196 --> 00:40:32,107 astronaut or something, you're just gone. 430 00:40:32,107 --> 00:40:34,639 So things, you lose lots of things. 431 00:40:34,639 --> 00:40:37,320 That's the price that you pay. 432 00:40:37,540 --> 00:40:48,446 Like not having a steady residence, not having a steady life, relationships, friendships. 433 00:40:48,446 --> 00:40:59,562 mean, I'm happy to say that I do have, I do have an assortment of really strong lifetime friendships that are just always there. 434 00:40:59,638 --> 00:41:10,073 Maybe I've got about 10 or 20 of those around the world where people that I might see once a year or every couple of years, but it's always the same when I'm back. 435 00:41:10,273 --> 00:41:19,777 traveling all the time, sort of, you know, the price you pay is you lose that normal home life. 436 00:41:19,777 --> 00:41:21,218 You don't have that. 437 00:41:21,218 --> 00:41:22,778 You don't get that. 438 00:41:23,539 --> 00:41:25,600 So, and that, 439 00:41:26,060 --> 00:41:37,240 can hurt, know, like when you lose, when you, when those kinds of things disintegrate or dissolve, you know, it's just, that's the way it is. 440 00:41:37,400 --> 00:41:39,880 I mean, those are some of the downs. 441 00:41:40,700 --> 00:41:42,910 you know, there can also be the ups and downs. 442 00:41:42,910 --> 00:41:48,720 There

can be like maybe some years it's not as good as other years, you know, maybe, it certainly went that way with Iggy. 443 00:41:48,720 --> 00:41:54,916 mean, at one point we, we hit a downward slope, you know, where 444 00:41:55,208 --> 00:42:02,372 It was just getting worse and worse and shows were getting smaller and less. 445 00:42:02,372 --> 00:42:06,224 you know, you know, that happens, that happens to every artist. 446 00:42:06,224 --> 00:42:11,857 You know, there was always an arc of up and an arc of down, you know, it can't just always be up. 447 00:42:12,057 --> 00:42:24,234 So there's that kinds of stuff you have to learn, you know, sometimes it can go like that, you know, and, or you have to work with lots of other people, you know, to, to, juggle. 448 00:42:25,544 --> 00:42:41,624 like to, juggle continuity and stuff like that, you know, and my God, you know, and to try and survive a lifetime at doing this almost for sure is going to involve, traveling all 449 00:42:41,624 --> 00:42:42,394 over the place. 450 00:42:42,394 --> 00:42:46,667 Like I, I never ever worked where I live. 451 00:42:46,667 --> 00:42:48,697 Really. 452 00:42:48,978 --> 00:42:53,100 It's always, I've moved around a lot over the planet and 453 00:42:53,292 --> 00:43:02,892 And it almost seems oddly enough, like as soon as I leave one city and move to another city, suddenly I start getting offers to work in the city that I used to live in. 454 00:43:02,892 --> 00:43:04,152 crap like that. 455 00:43:04,152 --> 00:43:06,742 You know, it's just like, and then you just have to fly back. 456 00:43:06,742 --> 00:43:18,212 You know, it's just, you know, I've told people a lot of times, you know, a lot of times the work, the work you might find or get offered is not going to be anywhere near where 457 00:43:18,212 --> 00:43:19,532 you live. 458 00:43:19,572 --> 00:43:22,468 And you have to be open to. 459 00:43:23,404 --> 00:43:34,464 going to the airport the next day or something like that and just going and to get the job, you know, and, and that's how a lot of people aren't cut out for that. 460 00:43:34,464 --> 00:43:37,644 A lot of people aren't comfortable with that at all. 461 00:43:37,644 --> 00:43:38,084 can't. 462 00:43:38,084 --> 00:43:44,454 This applied, this applies to matter what instrument you're playing, Larry, how psychologically do you cope with that? 463 00:43:44,454 --> 00:43:48,804 What are, what are your strategies that have kept you resilient over the years with so much touring? 464 00:43:48,804 --> 00:43:53,084 Well, I just realized that that's just the way it's going to have to be, you know, 465 00:43:53,866 --> 00:44:04,343 Someone might, someone happens to me all the time, you know, like I, sometimes people write me out of the blue online, you know, on Facebook or something like that. 466 00:44:04,684 --> 00:44:17,302 You know, like during the pandemic, I had this wonderful Romanian woman write me who's an electronic synthesis who was trying to put records together in a studio outside of 467 00:44:17,302 --> 00:44:18,473 Barcelona. 468 00:44:18,473 --> 00:44:22,932 And she's like, and she wanted concert percussion like classical. 469 00:44:22,932 --> 00:44:28,635 like full on the big stuff, know, concert bass drums and gongs and everything else. 470 00:44:28,655 --> 00:44:36,019 And, and she's like, could you, could you come down to Barcelona and make this record with me? 471 00:44:36,360 --> 00:44:38,451 And I'm like, yes, I can. 472 00:44:38,451 --> 00:44:42,893 And I will, but it's going to take me to, I can't, the stuff's so big. 473 00:44:42,893 --> 00:44:45,305 There's no way I can't put it on a plane. 474 00:44:45,305 --> 00:44:48,136 So I would have to drive there, but I'll do it. 475 00:44:48,136 --> 00:44:51,180 But it's going to take me two days of driving to get there. 476 00:44:51,180 --> 00:44:57,560 So I'm going to have to rent a van, there'll be gas, I'll have to spend a night somewhere on the border of France. 477 00:44:57,560 --> 00:45:00,780 And, and, and it was, you know, pandemic time. 478 00:45:00,780 --> 00:45:05,960 So there was all that weird stuff and I'm like, but I'm, I'll do it. 479 00:45:05,960 --> 00:45:13,560 It'll take me 48 hours to get there, but I'll, I'll show up and, we ended up having a great time. 480 00:45:13,560 --> 00:45:16,600 And we recorded two records that way. 481 00:45:16,600 --> 00:45:19,620 And, we had a wonderful adventure. 482 00:45:19,620 --> 00:45:22,302 And then it took me two days to drive back. 483 00:45:22,302 --> 00:45:24,043 mean, it took me a day. 484 00:45:24,064 --> 00:45:29,558 It took me a day to organize all those instruments, all that crap and load it into a van. 485 00:45:29,558 --> 00:45:40,037 Then two days of driving, setting it all up, recording for a week, two days of driving back a whole day to get it all back into where it's supposed to go into storage. 486 00:45:40,037 --> 00:45:42,319 You know, it was like, what was that? 487 00:45:42,319 --> 00:45:47,243 Almost two weeks of hard work to make that happen. 488 00:45:47,243 --> 00:45:48,128 But we had a 489 00:45:48,128 --> 00:45:48,789 great time. 490 00:45:48,789 --> 00:45:52,081 had a blast and the records are cool. 491 00:45:52,081 --> 00:46:01,799 She's awesome and Alina Kalincia is her name and and you know, I had to make it happen. 492 00:46:01,799 --> 00:46:14,940 You know, I had to drop whatever I thought I was doing at the time and focus on her and commit all that time to her and you know, it's getting it done, know, get it done. 493 00:46:14,940 --> 00:46:17,512 great perspective. 494 00:46:18,624 --> 00:46:20,006 make it happen. 495 00:46:20,006 --> 00:46:29,556 know, I'm like, if you're willing to do that, if you're willing to cooperate with that, then I am, you know, and let's do it. 496 00:46:29,556 --> 00:46:32,219 So stuff like that happens. 497 00:46:32,219 --> 00:46:38,645 And it's so rare that someone's like, you know, on the other side of town. 498 00:46:38,726 --> 00:46:40,808 It's always somewhere else.