Full Transcript for Talking Comedy And Tragedy With Ferne Pearlstein And Bob Edwards

know, you can't her only reference because it was the first graphic novel, her only reference to comic strips were the Sunday papers. 00:04:26.079 --> 00:04:32.959 So she's like, You can't make, you know, you can't turn the Holocaust into comedy. 00:04:33.040 --> 00:04:33.839 You can't do it. 00:04:34.000 --> 00:04:38.720 And then we had this whole interesting conversation with her, and then he asked her, had she read it, and she said no. 00:04:38.879 --> 00:04:48.720 So he went with this information and wrote a paper for a class he was taking, and it was researching all this humor that was in the camps. 00:04:48.800 --> 00:04:54.319 It was like in the concentration camps, the displaced persons camps, the transit camps. 00:04:54.720 --> 00:04:59.759 And he he did this paper, handed it to me, and said, make this into a movie. 00:04:59.920 --> 00:05:02.720 So that's how the process went. 00:05:02.959 --> 00:05:13.120 I mean, so when he gave it to me and it was just all humor during World War II, I knew that I was gonna have to open it up to post-war humor. 00:05:13.439 --> 00:05:16.319 And he and I shared that sensibility. 00:05:16.399 --> 00:05:18.560 So he knew I was the right person to do it. 00:05:18.879 --> 00:05:27.519 Did you sort of know what the story was other than sort of the outline before you were making it, or did all of these interviews point you? 00:05:28.079 --> 00:05:28.639 Absolutely. 00:05:28.800 --> 00:05:29.920 No, no, no, no, no. 00:05:30.079 --> 00:05:33.360 We had Bob and I had mapped it out completely. 00:05:33.680 --> 00:05:38.639 You know, if you read, if you read early proposals that we wrote, you would see the same film. 00:05:38.800 --> 00:05:43.600 But we knew, I mean, the one struggle was I knew I was gonna interview all these comedians. 00:05:43.680 --> 00:05:55.600 I already knew a lot of the archival clips we wanted to use, but I was I was desperately looking for something that was gonna elevate it from just a talking heads film. 00:05:56.000 --> 00:06:00.240 So that story, I knew there would be that story. 00:06:00.480 --> 00:06:06.959 I didn't know until I found Renee that she would be the heart and soul of the film. 00:06:07.120 --> 00:06:13.040 But I knew I needed to make it less sort of like this very, you know, interview-heavy film. 00:06:13.279 --> 00:06:18.560 Can can you just talk me through sort of the synopsis of the film for for listeners that haven't seen it? 00:06:18.800 --> 00:06:20.879 I'm gonna have you do that because you're faster. 00:06:21.439 --> 00:06:31.360 Well, let's film about what is taboo for humor proceeding from the premise that the Holocaust would seem to be the most off-limits topic or one of the most for humor. 00:06:31.600 --> 00:06:36.240 Um, but clearly it's not because there's been a lot of humor around it, right? 00:06:36.399 --> 00:06:38.560 You can go back to Mel Brooks and the producers. 00:06:38.879 --> 00:06:43.920 There's a lot of humor attacking the Nazis during the war and since it's still around. 00:06:44.079 --> 00:06:52.000 But there's a big difference between humor that's about the perpetrators and humor that touches on the victims, even if it's not at the expense of the victims. 00:06:52.160 --> 00:06:57.120 But just invoking the images of the camps and so forth is a third rail for many people. 00:06:57.279 --> 00:07:08.959 So with the film, we wanted to explore whether there was a role for humor, a constructive role, a productive role, rather than one that's just cheap or punching down, as we say, at the expense of the victims. 00:07:09.040 --> 00:07:15.680 And once we start exploring that, you know, this entire world of humor and psychology and history opened up to us. 00:07:16.000 --> 00:07:30.160 What lessons do you guys sort of take from having done all of this research and then having interviewed all of these incredible people with uh, you know, I'm I'm just amazed at the the number of people that have lived such a such rich, incredible lives that you guys were able to talk to. 00:07:30.240 --> 00:07:31.759 What have you learned from all these conversations? 00:07:32.079 --> 00:07:40.160 Well, I'm gonna start that with a quote from Rob Reiner, who it is just breaks my heart that he's not here right now. 00:07:40.399 --> 00:07:46.000 He was the first person to agree to be in the film, and he opened the doors to every other person that's in the film. 00:07:46.240 --> 00:07:50.160 But he has this line about, you know, there's nothing funny about the Holocaust. 00:07:50.240 --> 00:07:54.480 There's nothing at all humor about it, but humor and what it takes to survive. 00:07:54.560 --> 00:07:55.680 There can be humor in that. 00:07:55.839 --> 00:08:09.759 And I think that the lessons that are very crystal clear for me is, you know, a lot of people need that humor to get through difficult moments, to let off steam as a release valve. 00:08:09.839 --> 00:08:11.199 It's not for everybody. 00:08:11.360 --> 00:08:14.399 Not everybody, you know, uses that. 00:08:14.639 --> 00:08:39.360 But the huge distinction is where humor is productive and where it's not, like where it can, like like Bob said, punching up versus punching down, where it's used to, you know, help me with this, like make, you know, like helps draw call attention to the ills in the world rather than making fun of the victim. 00:08:39.600 --> 00:08:46.960 Yeah, and Rob Reiner, not only was he pivotal in the film just because he was so beloved and so at the center of American comedy in so many ways. 00:08:47.120 --> 00:08:49.919 And once he was on board, other people said, Oh, you're legitimate. 00:08:50.080 --> 00:08:59.519 But we talked to him about All in the Family, which is a good example of a very provocative piece of art that's taken differently by different people, you know. 00:08:59.679 --> 00:09:04.480 Many people loved it, of course, and thought it was fantastic social commentary and criticism. 00:09:04.639 --> 00:09:09.919 But

there were people who said half your audience agrees with Archie, and they're not laughing at him, they're laughing with him. 00:09:10.080 --> 00:09:12.320 So this is one of the big issues that their film tackles. 00:09:12.639 --> 00:09:22.240 Did you learn anything about sort of the role of comedy in a larger scale rather than at the sort of the victim level, but as how we as a society engage with tragedy? 00:09:22.559 --> 00:09:28.639 Well, as Fern was saying, the the film opened up to a lot of other things, way beyond the Holocaust. 00:09:29.039 --> 00:09:31.759 It came out just a couple years before COVID. 00:09:31.919 --> 00:09:46.399 And so the Me Too movement, the lockdown, and in fact, every sort of serious, dramatic, tragic thing that's happened since then, we now kind of see through a different lens because of our experiences making the film. 00:09:46.480 --> 00:09:55.600 And and in each of those cases, people look to humor as a way to to cope and deal with it, but it's always fraught because those are serious topics. 00:09:55.679 --> 00:10:05.120 And and you you never want to be, unless you're have bad faith in the first place, you never want to be in a position of engaging humor that's destructive or damaging. 00:10:05.519 --> 00:10:12.320 And and humor, it's been like a the use of comedy, I should say, has been a moving target since we made this film. 00:10:12.480 --> 00:10:19.360 I made a film after that for Trevor Noah about cancel culture, and that's a moving target. 00:10:19.519 --> 00:10:36.240 So how you know comedy is used, like for a while it felt like late-night comedy shows were being more direct news coverage than the news was in some cases. 00:10:36.480 --> 00:10:38.879 So it and and now it's changed again. 00:10:38.960 --> 00:10:43.039 And then there, you know, there's how would you describe that? 00:10:43.279 --> 00:10:47.279 Well, we always say it's moving in two at least two directions at once. 00:10:47.360 --> 00:10:54.399 So there are things that used to be off-limits for comedy in a more prudish era, let's say, that are now routine. 00:10:54.480 --> 00:10:58.480 You you hear comedians talk about all kinds of subjects that used to be taboo. 00:10:58.639 --> 00:11:05.200 But there are also things that you used to be able to talk about or joke that are now off limits and and a third rail. 00:11:05.440 --> 00:11:09.200 And it's not permanent, like those things are shifting and going back and forth all the time. 00:11:09.519 --> 00:11:16.720 But just as politics are divided right now, so so is what's not okay. 00:11:16.960 --> 00:11:24.159 You know, like what's not okay for you is different for than what's not okay for somebody else, and and vice versa. 00:11:24.399 --> 00:11:28.960 And that is adding to this this sort of culture clash we're living through. 00:11:29.440 --> 00:11:49.360 I guess there's certainly no correct answer to this, but sort of combining those two, the idea of this cancel culture and the comedy of

things like the producers, is that something that you think could get made today if we were 20, 25 years after such a horrific tragedy, or is has society changed too much? 00:11:49.840 --> 00:11:55.679 I think that it would be hard to make it right now, might be different in five, 10 years. 00:11:55.919 --> 00:11:58.960 But in this exact moment, I do think it might be hard. 00:11:59.440 --> 00:12:02.000 I think it would have been hard to make the last laugh right now. 00:12:03.039 --> 00:12:13.440 I mean, not only would it be hard to make the producers, the original Mel Brooks film from 67, it would be hard to do the Broadway musical even, which is now 20, 25 years ago that it premiered. 00:12:13.840 --> 00:12:21.200 The great irony there is the movie is the most, you know, despicable topic you can imagine for a lighthearted musical, becomes a Broadway hit. 00:12:21.279 --> 00:12:24.799 And then it really did become a Broadway hit 25 years later, right? 00:12:24.879 --> 00:12:26.879 Harry Shearer talks about that in our film. 00:12:27.039 --> 00:12:29.759 But now I I don't think you could get away with it. 00:12:29.840 --> 00:12:37.840 I think people would be, you know, rightly concerned about what your motives were, and especially if you didn't have the goodwill of being Mel Brooks. 00:12:38.320 --> 00:12:38.639 Right. 00:12:38.879 --> 00:12:45.759 But I I'm gonna add, you know, it wasn't easy for Mel Brooks to make it when he made it, and it wasn't easy for us to make the last laugh. 00:12:46.000 --> 00:12:48.159 We we were trying since 1993. 00:12:48.639 --> 00:12:53.120 So I got my first interview with Rob Reiner in 2011. 00:12:53.519 --> 00:12:56.320 So it's it's always hard. 00:12:56.480 --> 00:13:07.759 These topics are never easy, but I just think with with everything going on right now, I think right now, this moment, very difficult. 00:13:08.320 --> 00:13:13.840 Yeah, and I I was very much struck by how you literally could not make the same movie now. 00:13:14.000 --> 00:13:23.840 Obviously, you know, Rob Reiner's project passing and a lot of the survivors having having passed in the last decade, it was it's sort fortuitous that it was made when it was made. 00:13:24.159 --> 00:13:40.000 Do you think, and this is going in a totally different direction, but do you think there's sort of a unique pressure on our generation, largely as sort of the last generation that have direct memories of those survivors and to have dealt with them to tell these stories? 00:13:40.159 --> 00:13:42.080 How how do you sort of take that pressure? 00:13:42.559 --> 00:13:46.320 People underestimate the children and the grandchildren of survivors. 00:13:46.480 --> 00:13:49.679 You know, they are gatekeepers of some of these stories. 00:13:49.919 --> 00:13:57.600 So it is true that we're losing most of the survivors, but the stories are being passed out now. 00:13:57.840 --> 00:14:01.759 Are people willing to hear their stories right now? 00:14:02.080 --> 00:14:03.679 That is the question. 00:14:04.559 --> 00:14:08.000 I mean, that we're living the age of disinformation, right? 00:14:08.159 --> 00:14:10.559 More so than maybe at any time in human history. 00:14:10.720 --> 00:14:18.799 But as early as 1945, the spring of 45, when the first camps were liberated, Eisenhower understood that people were going to deny that it happened. 00:14:18.879 --> 00:14:26.159 That's why he had German citizens marched out to see with their own eyes the camps and to photograph the camps and that. 00:14:26.320 --> 00:14:39.519 But when the last generation of first person people with first-person experience of the Holocaust is gone, it'll be entirely on the two Gs as they're known, the three Gs and other folks to carry that on. 00:14:39.679 --> 00:14:48.879 And yeah, I am concerned that people will will that that impulse that has been there since the spring of 45 to say it never happened, it was a lie, it was a hoax. 00:14:49.039 --> 00:14:50.799 I'm concerned that it will rise. 00:14:51.279 --> 00:14:57.679 And how does sort of getting back to the comedy, how does that change as you get from sort of that first generation? 00:14:57.840 --> 00:15:09.519 Because you I think incredibly impressively talk about the sort of the the first generation, the survivors approach to comedy, as you get towards that second and third generation, is does it how does it change? 00:15:09.679 --> 00:15:16.879 How did you what did you take away from how the differences and how they those different generations approach things? 00:15:17.360 --> 00:15:20.960 Well, I I want to step back to something else you just said. 00:15:21.279 --> 00:15:24.320 How do we keep the memory alive? 00:15:25.600 --> 00:15:36.080 I believe personally that we we keep it alive by remembering other people's tragedies and other genocides as well. 00:15:36.399 --> 00:15:36.879 Right? 00:15:37.279 --> 00:15:50.639 There is nobody is, you know, if we don't if we only go and think, oh, you know, the Holocaust is the worst thing that ever happened, we are siloing ourselves and our memories. 00:15:50.879 --> 00:16:11.679 And I strongly, strongly feel that this is a matter of, you know, seeing all these different genocides, all these different tragic, you know, situations and seeing them clearly and you know having empathy for others. 00:16:11.840 --> 00:16:15.039 And that's how others will remember the Holocaust, right? 00:16:15.200 --> 00:16:17.039 Because Jewish people are gonna remember it. 00:16:17.200 --> 00:16:19.679 We learn about it through our own families. 00:16:20.000 --> 00:16:23.840 The question is, are other people gonna remember it? 00:16:24.080 --> 00:16:28.639 Are we gonna remember what happened to them and their families and their ancestors? 00:16:28.879 --> 00:16:32.240 That's the big to me, that's the that is the way. 00:16:32.559 --> 00:16:38.960 Yeah, and there's no nobody's a bigger advocate of that point of view than Renee Firestone, main character

in the film, who's a hundred now? 00:16:39.120 --> 00:16:39.759 Is she over a hundred? 00:16:40.639 --> 00:16:41.360 She's a hundred and one. 00:16:41.679 --> 00:16:45.440 She was 88 when we filmed her, and she says it clearly in the film. 00:16:45.519 --> 00:17:01.840 You know, she's a huge been to Rwanda many times, huge advocate for calling attention to genocides beyond the Holocaust, and not, as Fern says, siloing it as this unique event in human history, but keeping everybody's awareness of ongoing atrocities all over the world. 00:17:02.240 --> 00:17:09.839 And is there a role for sort of the entertainer of today to make that more real? 00:17:10.079 --> 00:17:25.519 I mean, it's it's much easier to laugh at something, to learn something while you're laughing, learn something while you're entertained and enjoying it, than to, you know, to go to the Holocaust Museum and it it's just like information and just like so devastatingly. 00:17:25.759 --> 00:17:35.279 What is the role of the entertainer in all of this in making sure that all of the the darkness and the the tragedy of today is something that we learn about? 00:17:35.359 --> 00:17:40.480 And especially as you said, in such an environment where there's so much misinformation and disinformation out there. 00:17:40.799 --> 00:18:00.079 Well, I'm gonna answer that by saying that Bob and I share a mentor that named Bill Jersey, who when he was at one of our earliest, earliest screenings, he stood up and he said, you know, and he's he's also a hundred or not late nineties. 00:18:00.799 --> 00:18:11.200 And he said, you know, I have watched endless numbers of Holocaust films, but this is the first one that I let in because of the humor. 00:18:11.599 --> 00:18:19.599 Because he he, you know, you go into these films and you see horrors and you shut down. 00:18:19.759 --> 00:18:30.880 But he was saying that the humor opened him up, you know, he let his guard down, and then there would be a serious moment where you would see it, and he was sort of forced to take it in. 00:18:31.119 --> 00:18:35.680 So that always really touched me that he saw it that way. 00:18:36.000 --> 00:18:39.519 So I I agree with you that humor is a good way. 00:18:39.599 --> 00:18:41.920 It's like a common language we have. 00:18:42.319 --> 00:18:55.839 Yeah, to your earlier point, how do we maintain the memory of it when it's just the ground has been trodden so heavily and everybody has seen the same sort of black and white footage and sad cello music? 00:18:56.319 --> 00:18:58.000 It ceases to have any power. 00:18:58.240 --> 00:19:05.200 So it's humor a way, a new way, a fresh way, an accessible way for people to approach this tragedy. 00:19:05.519 --> 00:19:08.319 And what has been the overall reception to your film? 00:19:08.799 --> 00:19:10.319 It's been very good. 00:19:10.799 --> 00:19:28.960 You know, I mean, honestly, it it premiered, it'll be 10 years in April at the Tribeca Film Festival, and then it went on to

over a hundred film festivals, and it continued pretty extensively showing all over the world for many years, including Germany. 00:19:29.039 --> 00:19:32.079 It played multiple times in Germany. 00:19:32.720 --> 00:19:33.759 It plays differently now. 00:19:34.160 --> 00:19:39.279 It plays differently at every new political event. 00:19:39.519 --> 00:19:40.240 You know what I mean? 00:19:40.400 --> 00:19:45.039 Every new little pol mini political era, it it changes. 00:19:46.240 --> 00:19:48.559 I'm curious, how did it play in Germany? 00:19:48.880 --> 00:19:53.839 It it plays really well, but you know, you know, in it's very interesting. 00:19:53.920 --> 00:20:10.480 I we were lucky that we knew this going in, but you know, they're brought look, I don't know what's happening now, but they were the ten years ago, the audiences had been brought up to not laugh at Holocaust jokes, right? 00:20:10.640 --> 00:20:12.559 Not laugh at this situation. 00:20:12.880 --> 00:20:13.519 That's probably a good thing. 00:20:13.680 --> 00:20:24.000 Well, well, it's interesting there are jokes in the film that are just sort of making fun or poking fun at, you know, sort of anti-Semitic jokes or whatever. 00:20:24.400 --> 00:20:27.359 That nobody said you can't laugh at that. 00:20:27.599 --> 00:20:29.359 So to me, that was very revealing. 00:20:29.440 --> 00:20:38.880 Like, well, it it's okay to laugh at at Jack Benny, you know, you know, making fun of himself in this Jewish stereotype, but it's not okay to laugh at that. 00:20:38.960 --> 00:20:44.640 And that felt almost worse because the film is giving you permission to laugh at these jokes. 00:20:44.880 --> 00:20:47.599 But it was, it just felt very revealing to me. 00:20:47.920 --> 00:20:52.880 Yeah, it was tricky because you know they say Germany is the only country that ever learned anything, right? 00:20:53.119 --> 00:20:58.880 They they reckoned with their history in ways that many other countries, including the United States, have not done. 00:20:59.039 --> 00:21:04.720 But as a generalization, of course, you've got the AFD now, you've got a rising right-wing movement in Germany. 00:21:04.880 --> 00:21:09.440 We showed it there on the festival circuit when it came out, and a couple of times since then. 00:21:09.519 --> 00:21:10.880 I don't know how it would play there now. 00:21:11.039 --> 00:21:13.599 Might be different, might be worrying. 00:21:13.839 --> 00:21:17.680 So that's what, like Fern says, it changes all the time with the politics. 00:21:17.839 --> 00:21:22.480 Different parts of the film resonate differently and jump out that didn't jump out before. 00:21:22.880 --> 00:21:30.559 There was one city city in Germany that has a a cinematech, and they they invited me a number of times. 00:21:30.640 --> 00:21:35.200 And after the Me Too movement, they were like, Can you take out certain people? 00:21:35.440 --> 00:21:36.480 Yeah, they wanted, yeah. 00:21:36.720 --> 00:21:39.440 But it was, I was like, I can't, I'm sorry. 00:21:39.519 --> 00:21:46.000 And they still showed it, but so then then you made a documentary about cancel culture just to exactly, exactly. 00:21:46.319 --> 00:21:53.359 Do you think are there lessons from your film, which was obviously made a decade ago, that pertain to our current moment? 00:21:53.519 --> 00:21:58.960 About like is there what is funny about our current political moment that we can laugh at? 00:22:00.160 --> 00:22:11.440 Well, I mean, one of the things that's in the last laugh that continues to be evergreen is the question of the power of power or weakness of humor and satire as a political force. 00:22:11.599 --> 00:22:23.119 We get into a little bit in the film because we want to believe that comedians can really have a political impact and, you know, be court jesters who bring the mighty down. 00:22:23.519 --> 00:22:25.599 And to some extent that's true. 00:22:25.759 --> 00:22:31.759 But as a couple of the people in the film talk about, satire can also be counterproductive, right? 00:22:31.920 --> 00:22:42.799 It can be a way for people who are suffering from political repression to let off steam that might otherwise be channeled into like getting out into the streets. 00:22:42.960 --> 00:22:44.640 And even the Nazis understood that. 00:22:44.799 --> 00:22:48.720 And especially in the beginning, they allowed a certain amount of humor, more than you would think. 00:22:48.880 --> 00:22:56.400 But the historical record shows that they understood that letting people make some jokes kept them from mobilizing and organizing against the regime. 00:22:56.480 --> 00:22:58.319 Now that changed as the war went on. 00:22:58.480 --> 00:23:00.559 But in the beginning, they were surprisingly tolerant. 00:23:00.640 --> 00:23:02.079 And I think we see it now, right? 00:23:02.240 --> 00:23:06.160 You do see comedians, I don't even need to mention any names. 00:23:06.240 --> 00:23:10.240 We all know who they are, who have gotten under the skin of various leaders. 00:23:10.480 --> 00:23:13.119 But ultimately, how much impact do they have? 00:23:13.519 --> 00:23:16.400 That is a question that is beyond me. 00:23:16.799 --> 00:23:27.519 And most of my audience, I think, I think, tends to be sort of working in that data and policy and research element frequently around, but certainly not exclusively to the criminal justice sphere. 00:23:27.920 --> 00:23:33.839 Do you have any thoughts on what you would want somebody working in that area to sort of take away from a film like this? 00:23:34.079 --> 00:23:34.960 That is a tough one. 00:23:35.119 --> 00:23:35.599 What do you think? 00:23:35.920 --> 00:23:38.960 Well, I think this is your business, your milieu. 00:23:40.559 --> 00:23:52.720 Well, in my my pretty firm Pearl Stein documentary career, I had done some work on the criminal justice world with um Roger Grafe, who's a British criminologist, not with us any any longer. 00:23:52.960 --> 00:23:53.599 I don't know.

00:23:53.759 --> 00:23:58.799 I mean, I'd love to see some data on the impact of comedy and humor. 00:23:58.880 --> 00:24:10.319 I don't even know how you would quantify that or what the metrics would be, but I'd be very interested to see what could be gleaned from that and what the impact is on crime, crime statistics, and policing and those sorts of things. 00:24:10.559 --> 00:24:18.000 The general lessons of the film, I think, apply across the board and in all areas, economics, public affairs, health, whatever. 00:24:18.160 --> 00:24:19.839 We do believe that humor has a place. 00:24:20.000 --> 00:24:29.440 We think it can be constructive in the right hands when when wielded in good faith, but by the same token, it can also be weaponized for some some really horrible and nasty ends. 00:24:29.759 --> 00:24:36.240 I mean, like historically, the political cartoon is an attack on it's the ultimate punching up. 00:24:36.400 --> 00:24:52.319 So I b I think, you know, with issues of policing, there's, you know, are the memes going around, political cartoons that point to, you know, the misuse of power and stuff can be very, very effective. 00:24:52.559 --> 00:24:54.799 Almost especially because they go viral and stuff. 00:24:55.039 --> 00:24:59.599 Yeah, almost more effective than say stand-up or or sketch comedy or anything like that. 00:24:59.680 --> 00:25:09.519 I mean, we we can all think of cases of political cartoons that so shook the power structure that people rioted, people got arrested, people got attacked. 00:25:09.680 --> 00:25:10.960 That's a fraught job being a political. 00:25:11.440 --> 00:25:27.440 I mean, speaking of Art Spiegelman, I mean, this is a little bit different, but that the the Crown Heights issue when they when he when he did the cover of The New Yorker, you know, like that was so stark, you remember? 00:25:27.519 --> 00:25:27.680 Yeah. 00:25:28.079 --> 00:25:30.240 Art spe it all comes back to Art Spiegelman, right? 00:25:30.319 --> 00:25:32.319 Mouse was the original of this film. 00:25:32.480 --> 00:25:36.720 You know, he's done work on 9-11 uh in the shout of No Towers, this book. 00:25:36.880 --> 00:25:39.279 Nobody tackles darker subjects than art. 00:25:39.920 --> 00:25:42.720 And didn't Mouse get banned somewhere recently? 00:25:43.200 --> 00:25:44.000 Newly banned, yeah. 00:25:44.079 --> 00:25:48.799 It's one of the most banned books in this latest book burning, you know, era that we're in. 00:25:49.039 --> 00:25:53.039 In fact, the there's a documentary film about art that came out, what, like last year? 00:25:53.200 --> 00:25:53.359 Yeah. 00:25:53.680 --> 00:25:57.519 It's a film about censorship, and it was itself censored. 00:25:58.559 --> 00:26:00.480 Don't lack a sense of irony, at least. 00:26:00.720 --> 00:26:02.400 No, irony is neck deep. 00:26:03.680 --> 00:26:05.920 So I have to ask, I knew I was talking to you guys. 00:26:06.000 --> 00:26:12.480 I the first question that I wrote down will be uh towards the end of the ones that I ask you, but just what is it like talking to so many legends? 00:26:12.640 --> 00:26:16.799 Like this is as close as I'll get to talking to all of these comedy legends that I admire. 00:26:16.960 --> 00:26:18.880 So I have to ask you all, what what is that like? 00:26:19.200 --> 00:26:32.079 Well, I will tell you that after I interviewed Mel Brooks, which was, you know, as you can imagine, not an easy interview to get, he put his hands on my face and he was like, Good job, Pearl Steam. 00:26:32.319 --> 00:26:34.400 And I was like, I think fire today. 00:26:36.160 --> 00:26:41.359 Yeah, that was to to be in the presence of Mel Brooks and and some of these other people who are such icons. 00:26:41.759 --> 00:26:42.960 We're pretty starstruck. 00:26:43.279 --> 00:26:49.279 Carl Reiner invited us into his house to do the interview and he came down the stairs and I I started to cry. 00:26:49.440 --> 00:26:54.240 I mean, it's it's pretty, it's it's it's it's heavy, you know, it's really incredible. 00:26:54.400 --> 00:27:05.200 And and like I said, Rob Reiner was just the mensch of all mensches, you know, like he was just the kindest and most generous person. 00:27:05.759 --> 00:27:09.759 Did you laugh more than you expected while making a Holocaust documentary? 00:27:10.079 --> 00:27:14.960 Well, I expected to laugh, but I also knew what there would be serious moments. 00:27:15.119 --> 00:27:18.640 See, people, you know, hear, oh, what's your film about Holocaust humor? 00:27:18.960 --> 00:27:19.920 They blanch. 00:27:20.160 --> 00:27:24.559 But I knew that there would be, you know, not just humor. 00:27:24.720 --> 00:27:34.319 It wasn't, you know, people just automatically assume that means we're making fun of the Holocaust, which is so interesting because that's exactly the opposite of what I was trying to do. 00:27:34.799 --> 00:27:41.599 Well, Fern's opening, sorry, her opening question to everybody was do you have a Holocaust joke? 00:27:41.759 --> 00:27:45.359 And usually they would say, No, but I have a Nazi joke, and then they tell us a joke about the Nazi. 00:27:45.680 --> 00:27:57.200 And I did that on purpose because I was it's such a serious subject that even though I'm interviewing comedians, I didn't, I wanted to give them permission to just like okay, set the tone. 00:27:57.359 --> 00:27:57.680 Yeah. 00:27:57.920 --> 00:28:02.559 The only the only and I can't remember if this is in the film, but you asked that of Gilbert Gottfried. 00:28:02.720 --> 00:28:03.839 That was the first question. 00:28:04.079 --> 00:28:05.279 Do you have a Holocaust joke? 00:28:05.359 --> 00:28:06.160 And what did he say? 00:28:06.400 --> 00:28:07.599 Do I have a Holocaust joke? 00:28:07.680 --> 00:28:08.079 No, no, no. 00:28:08.160 --> 00:28:11.119 No, he said he said, There was a Holocaust? 00:28:11.359 --> 00:28:12.559 Nobody told me. 00:28:12.799 --> 00:28:15.680 But then he's not, I'm not telling his jokes. 00:28:15.759

--> 00:28:16.000 Sorry. 00:28:16.079 --> 00:28:16.319 Okay. 00:28:16.480 --> 00:28:21.680 He he is the guy with the sky his soul, the fewest lines, if any. 00:28:21.920 --> 00:28:22.880 No lines. 00:28:23.200 --> 00:28:25.359 No, no, no lines that he wouldn't cross. 00:28:25.519 --> 00:28:25.680 Right. 00:28:26.160 --> 00:28:26.319 Sure. 00:28:26.559 --> 00:28:26.720 Sure. 00:28:26.960 --> 00:28:29.359 It I I was extremely struck by that. 00:28:29.440 --> 00:28:32.480 That the difference between the the Holocaust is not funny. 00:28:32.559 --> 00:28:34.079 There's no jokes in there. 00:28:34.400 --> 00:28:36.079 The Nazis, let's make fun of them. 00:28:36.160 --> 00:28:36.799 They are funny. 00:28:36.880 --> 00:28:41.599 Let's and to your point, let's punch punch up at them because they are worth mocking. 00:28:41.759 --> 00:28:43.680 So I I very much appreciate that. 00:28:44.000 --> 00:28:44.480 For sure. 00:28:45.119 --> 00:28:46.799 So what what's next for you guys? 00:28:46.880 --> 00:28:48.720 Any any projects in the works? 00:28:49.279 --> 00:28:52.000 Yes, but I'm keeping them under wraps. 00:28:52.559 --> 00:28:52.799 All right. 00:28:53.359 --> 00:28:54.720 Something along these lines. 00:28:54.960 --> 00:28:57.920 Something along these lines of comedy. 00:28:58.240 --> 00:28:59.440 And I don't want to give it around. 00:29:00.720 --> 00:29:01.440 Very mysterious. 00:29:01.519 --> 00:29:04.720 I'll have to have you back on then in a few years if it comes out. 00:29:05.200 --> 00:29:11.440 I think we should do a thing about the analytics of uh if comedy helps. 00:29:12.400 --> 00:29:13.200 Absolutely. 00:29:13.359 --> 00:29:17.359 And I'll give you my screenplay about the crime analyst that solves crime with Excel. 00:29:17.440 --> 00:29:19.279 It's uh Oh, that's a great idea. 00:29:19.440 --> 00:29:21.279 It's coming coming along. 00:29:21.759 --> 00:29:22.880 Look, can I steal it? 00:29:23.039 --> 00:29:23.440 Oh no. 00:29:23.519 --> 00:29:23.920 Oh no. 00:29:24.160 --> 00:29:24.960 Copyrighted. 00:29:25.359 --> 00:29:26.880 Fern and Bob, this has been wonderful. 00:29:26.960 --> 00:29:28.559 I really appreciate you both coming on. 00:29:28.640 --> 00:29:36.319 I I know that this is sort of uh a little bit out of left field, but this is a a conversation that I really, really wanted to have, and I really appreciate it. 00:29:36.400 --> 00:29:36.960 So thank you both. 00:29:37.279 --> 00:29:38.079 We appreciate it too. 00:29:38.160 --> 00:29:38.880 It was great talking to you. 00:29:39.119 --> 00:29:39.279 Thank you. 00:29:39.359 --> 00:29:42.319 It was a great, great fun to speak with you about it. 00:29:43.279 --> 00:29:45.440 Thanks for listening to the Jeffalytics Podcast. 00:29:45.599 --> 00:29:51.920 Be sure to subscribe and to learn more, head on over to ahdatalytics.com for more information and previous episodes. 00:29:52.079 --> 00:29:56.400 If you like what you heard, please leave a glowing review, which will help others to discover the show. 00:29:56.559 --> 00:29:58.480 Until next time, I'm Jeff Asher.