Jessica Lahey is an educator, speaker, and writer. She has been an English, Latin, and writing teacher in middle and high school for over a decade, writes the biweekly Parent-Teacher Conference advice column for the New York Times, is a contributing writer at the Atlantic, and appears as a commentator on Vermont Public Radio. Jessica…

The post The Gift of Failure with Jessica Lahey appeared first on Joshua Ogaldez.

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00:00:00the intersection of success answer trolley podcast episode number ninety with New York times bestselling author jeskell Leahy the gift of failure six sass is attained by the kids who can figure out okay no take a brass maybe %HESITATION re read the instructions are look at it from another
00:00:25perspective and give it another shot knowing what I know about how I did it wrong last time that's what defines success he there ladies and gentleman welcome to another episode of the inner section of success and virtually podcasts Ruggles of high performers and achievers with their spiritual and
00:00:46did a life this is Josh will call does and I am your host it's a new year two thousand eighteen is upon us and many of you as you're looking at this new year want to maximize each and every moment some of you have told yourself I want
00:01:04to be a better see %HESITATION a better entrepreneur I want to increase my produktivnost week we had business product Divac's Burt Theresa McCloy with us who shared some great mindsets and tools that will help you with your produktivnost many of you beyond beyond that realm of things have
00:01:23told yourself I want to be a better parents with those that I share roof Cheryl last name with those who have part of my DNA I want to be the best that I can be to them I want to be a better pair I want to be able
00:01:40to give these human beings my past and today today on the show we have the New York times bestselling author of the book the gift of failure how the bass parents learn to let go so their children can succeed just a goalie he with us and this episode
00:02:03brings all the way to our home in New Hampshire so you'll hear a bit of sounds in the background in brief you'll hear a bit of life the amazing thing about podcasting is that it has a way of bringing us to the reality we all experience so you'll
00:02:21hear better that but let me tell you this the counter intuitive ideas the you're gonna hear right here in this episode can radically impact your relationship with your children loved ones and those you lead it also tell you a lot about yourself and perhaps there is that perhaps
00:02:41beyond the realm of parenting as an influencer teacher employer mentor or it also will have a lot to help you in your journey as well so without saying anything more here is this week's featured conversation with this week's featured guest just go away welcome to show Jessica thank
00:03:17you so much for having me so out for all those that are listening right now there's probably some people that probably %HESITATION read your book and they they looked you up and they ran into this podcasts and probably there's some other people of that it in another no
00:03:32they're probably just barely barely meeting you're right now says it was the first time we were to meet you and you were tall slim about yourself in your own words what would you tell us I'm a teacher I mean that's really primarily what I do %HESITATION whether that
00:03:46I used to teach full time now I can only teach part time because I travel a lot for speaking and stuff like that %HESITATION but I'm a teacher a mom I have a almost nineteen year old and a fourteen year old and I right %HESITATION books and then
00:03:59also %HESITATION for that in the Atlantic in The New York Times had a column in The New York Times for three years called the parent teacher conference so right about the confluence of education and parenting and this book at this book is something that spawned from that and
00:04:16I love that throughout the book there's different perspectives that that spring from the teaching part but also from the printing because you'd know both worlds in a it's it's fascinating there's so much we can go into the book but one of the places I'd like to start is
00:04:33at some point in the book being somebody that you mention buggy teach English you love stories and you learn the power of that there's one example you put I'm gonna use that example as a launching point of what we're gonna be talking about object at some point you
00:04:49say going to a young child's room and asked to play with them laying if you play according to their script everything will go fine however if you start to impose your goals on the project or attempt to force new direction based on your wants or needs the fun
00:05:10will and and quickly how is this a picture of the direction of current parenting you know I actually I think there's a little to be added to that story you know when I tell that store and I talk about that topic it I mean when you have a
00:05:27kid that's really been playing independently and you go in and you sort of try to impose your rules on it things start to go a little hay wire and an example I've been talking about a lot recently is I have a son who used to be just obsessed
00:05:39with mine craft and the thing that's so wonderful about minecraft as it allows children to create their own universes they create the whole world and part of that that's such a powerful thing because it gives them autonomy entire over this entire you know world that they're creating and
00:05:55minecraft has started to go into schools %HESITATION I was in Northern Ireland last year because they've %HESITATION sort of they've launched minecraft for education and all the schools in Northern Ireland and I was really I've been curious to see how that goes because what happens when you take
00:06:13thing that's completely under the control of the child and then put in %HESITATION constraints on it educational constraints on it no matter how well now I'm really curious to see how %HESITATION there are kids going to stay interested in minecraft if if we put constraints on it around
00:06:28you know you can only build with these materials are you can only do it this way so there's something about this extrinsic motivators and and you know this stuff is not my idea comes from damp tank it comes with ever DC about when you put external constraints on
00:06:44kids on anyone %HESITATION it tends to undermine someone's motivation to do the thing they're doing just for the sake of the task itself and so I'm really curious to see how the minecraft thing works or you know to watch how when I put constraints around a lesson how
00:07:00that impacts the motivation of my students the book as a whole explores this whole topic as the top that as the title mentions the gift of failure it and at some point you say we have taught our kids fear failure and in doing so we have locked the
00:07:21surest and clear is how to their success %HESITATION for all those listening right now how our success and failure connected the title of the book maybe the gift of failure but of course the economic teacher the last thing I want is for kids to fail but what I
00:07:37do want is for kids to understand that the real learning happens when you push through your frustration around making a mistake or about being less than perfect or about failing and find the lessons in that and figure out what you need to leave behind figure out what didn't
00:07:55go well what you can discard and then figure out what you need to take forward with you into the next year now your next try it what's it going to be like next time and the problem is is that I think teachers and parents were were so interested
00:08:08in saving our kids because we don't want them to be frustrated we don't want we it's hard to see our kids struggle that we tend to take over and say okay no just do it this way or here let me just do that for you when unfortunately success
00:08:22is attained by the kids who can figure out okay no take a brass maybe %HESITATION re read the instructions are look at it from another perspective and give it another shot knowing what I know about how I did it wrong last time that's what defines success %HESITATION you
00:08:37know school have math English writing all this stuff gets hard for everyone but how the kids deal with that when it gets tough for them that is going to determine whether or not they're successful the next time around so it it's having cultivating such a confidence that ultimately
00:08:56E. do you want to grow you do want to your your kids in the people following you to grow into and become better and to have a level of success is measured by people but to have a mindset that is looks at failure and is not afraid of
00:09:13it and is able to have the great to walk through it that that's what I get out of that %HESITATION there's probably you use the word confidence and I would be really careful about using that word mainly because we tend to mix up confidence and competence we tend
00:09:28to think that you know if we can just get our kids feeling really optimistic and hopeful and you know %HESITATION at you know as long as we tell our kids how smart they are and how wonderful they are that they'll have this confidence this optimism that everything's going
00:09:41to be great and go well for them but what we really need to be focusing on his kids competence which is confidence based on actual experience you know trying and failing and trying again that competence is what you know when things get difficult and a kid it will
00:09:56keep a kid from giving up will keep a kid from saying oh well forget it I can't do that that's too hard for me because competence is about okay I tried it this way over here and then I've tried it this way over here in this way was
00:10:07a little bit harder and yeah this this harder version over here I think I can do that I would much rather teach competent to kids than confident kits %HESITATION said okay said as as I was reading the Buck and trying to place myself in the shoes of of
00:10:27probably people reading this Buck there's a sense in which you mentioned throughout the book that you have to let go and I can imagine there's some parents that go in their heads and they're thinking the worst case scenario of their kids if they let go well if I
00:10:43don't prepare their alliance who own if I don't help them out with their rants will then who well and there's people that %HESITATION to this day I personally I'm a millennial and I know people that they young men and women that that play video games all day and
00:11:02their parents pretty much still do everything for them and I think the mindset of that comes from a place of perhaps in an intention of fear but also intention of somewhere in there to do good and there's this question what if my kids go on the extreme of
00:11:16turning out very horrible how do parents navigate through that particular mindset well I guess I'm gonna ask you know what you mean by the word horrible because I had a %HESITATION I was I speak a lot of on the road a lot and I was normally I'm speaking
00:11:34at schools and I have parents of you know K. through twelve not kids and it you know can guard through twelfth grade and but at a recent event I had this this older couple commit came in and they came thank stayed until the end so that they could
00:11:47stick around and ask me some questions and they said you know we just don't know what to do our daughter is twenty four I. think they said and %HESITATION and she's just she lives in our basement and she she won't get a job and she won't pay rent
00:12:00and she won't pay for groceries and she's not particularly even nice to us or her siblings and we just don't know what to do and you know at that point you know they don't they do know what to do and and you know I just sort of smiled
00:12:13and I repeated back to them often it that's sort of my best bet is to repeat back to them what they've told me so they can hear themselves they also had a twenty one year old and a nineteen year old and I said you know you have to
00:12:26sort of think about what the example is for the younger children as well because you know you're sort of leading them down a path toward the exact same thing and and they said yeah we we had noticed that the nineteen year old in the twenty one year old
00:12:37really don't have any %HESITATION any intentions of getting out of the house and when you say horrible you know I think a twenty three year old who's treating her parents terribly and taking them for granted and not owning her responsibilities as an adult that's that's who he hoped
00:12:54purple to me the anyway in terms of an outcome so and they were they did everything they did out of love and that's the hardest part is that when we do all this stuff out of love where what what what I refer to in the book is directive
00:13:07parents because that's what it's referred to in the in the research or controlling that's the but I tend to use the word directive because it's a little bit nicer I cast a curse to have an easier %HESITATION when we're directive like that we not only tell our kids
00:13:22that we don't think that they're competent to handle it themselves we undermine their own comp their competence and confidence but we also teach them we we don't ever give them the emotional where with all to get frustrated and and so what I try to tell directive parents is
00:13:37that what you're what you're doing out of love to your child actually renders your child not only less motivated to learn for the sake of learning and to take responsibility for the sake of taking responsibility but you're actually rendering your child less able to learn %HESITATION in school
00:13:52for example because the tools I have as a teacher the ones that are the most effective require kids to be able to get frustrated and yet push to their frustration and not give up and more directive parents tend to raise kids who are less able to get frustrated
00:14:07and tend to give up more easily in the face of a frustrating task so you know all the stuff we do out of love is is undermining our kids their learning and their motivation so I you know you say horrible and I say well you know they're all
00:14:22kinds of outcomes that could be construed as horrible but you know a kid living in my house and not having any respect for me or the rules from my house are participating my house that I would I would %HESITATION I would interpret that is fairly horrible so then
00:14:36the encouragement within that then is that parents are able to take the risk that let's just say it without them there is a period of almost craziness but then also the potential risk that this twenty three or twenty four year old can ultimately become somebody that respects them
00:14:58is independence and well I think I think the nice thing about having older kids and %HESITATION and on doing you know some of the learned helplessness we've taught our kids is that you can go to those kids and you can model the very behavior you're asking your for
00:15:13of the asking your children to to engage and which is to say look I'm I'm really sorry I think I was doing what I thought was best based on the information that I had I was the best I could and I think what I've done is I've %HESITATION
00:15:26underestimated you at I have taught you that you are helpless and that is on me and I'm sorry for that so here's what I'm going to do in order to be a better parent I'm going to back off and I'm gonna give you some control some autonomy over
00:15:41the things in your life because the the three things you need in order to help kids be more %HESITATION intrinsically motivated is autonomy help them feel competent and help them feel connected to you and a big part of that is modelling this behavior of huh wow I learn
00:15:58something new I did that wrong I'm sorry I'm gonna make up for it here's how I'm going to make up for it here here my new expectations for myself and by proxy here my new expectations for you and my expectations for you is that you're more competent than
00:16:11I've been allowing you to be and so from here on out here's here are the rules of the road in our house and %HESITATION whether that kid is twenty three or whether that kid is sex you can say look sweetie I'm putting your dishes in the dishwasher and
00:16:24I didn't even think about the fact that I bet you you can do that yourself and that I'm sorry that I've never given you the opportunity to do that let's see it see how you do it and what's amazing is whether a kid is you know a twenty
00:16:35three year old might be a little bit upset about that because they've had more time to get used to being helpless but give a six year olds the opportunity to show you what they can do and I I guarantee you're going to be really surprised %HESITATION you know
00:16:49let that kick in before learned helplessness gets too ingrained and it's pretty amazing what kids can do that's perfect segue to what my next question what at some point you mention this story with one of your kids and there's this one phrase that you say say I'd trade
00:17:06ten broken plates for his smile of competence and pride in you were talking about %HESITATION the story of your kids at helping out in the home in specific specifically with the dishes and what I saw on there is what you're referring to is the process Messi in this
00:17:25and the imperfection that comes along the way and the journey a lot of people %HESITATION they probably want the end result of their kids becoming independent but they're not too fond about the broken plates along the journey %HESITATION yeah I mean not that I'm a perfectionist I'm a
00:17:47neat person I I like things the way I like them and that was probably one of the hardest parts for me and you know it it starts with the note letting go of just thinking I am for me I think the best the best way to come out
00:18:01it is first of all to start thinking more long term about your kid thank you know what it's not about this emergency right now how how I want my house to look right at the second or how this homework assignment right now has to look but in six
00:18:14months what do I want my kid to be able to do on their own or in a year in five years or in six years or whatever that thing with that time line is that if we can get our brains off of the emergency of right now and
00:18:26start thinking more long term for kids and you you you use the word process I think of that we have to start thinking about the process and get our brains off of the product so much stop focusing on the product whether that's a greater whether that's you know
00:18:40this perfect image you have of of a kid doing something perfectly in the end I think we have to get a lot more focused on the process and that's what as a teacher I love so much is that you know especially when I get to teach kids for
00:18:53multiple years in a row as I did when I taught middle school I taught sixth seventh and eighth grade I can always be thinking about I want the student to be the end of eighth grade as opposed to where I need them to be at the end of
00:19:05the lesson today and I try to think about my teaching as you know what I want them to know in five years as opposed to what I want them to know on the test next Friday that always allows me as a parent and as a teacher to cut
00:19:16myself a break and say okay it's not as and nothing is as urgent as it sort of feels in the moment if you start thinking more long term and you know and partly it's also a mindset shift about you know do I do I care about stuff more
00:19:34than I care about my child's ability to be competent the answer to that has to be now I you know I don't I don't care about a dish or plate or you know something going through the dishwasher perfectly more than I care about my kids ability to to
00:19:48fend for himself and to to do things himself %HESITATION learned helplessness sneaks up on us and I used to call it faint helplessness because that's what it felt like to me but then he started talking to to psychologist now like none of that's learned helplessness and your teaching
00:20:03art you're teaching your kids to be helpless when you keep taking stuff away from them and sang on and %HESITATION just let me do that %HESITATION and that's right at the last thing I ever would want to do is to raise my children to be helpless so with
00:20:16this mindset of process when progress reports report cards cards come home with probably grades that weren't ideal what to you then do as a parent yes so I actually make a joke about this on and when I do %HESITATION when I talk to parents %HESITATION one of the
00:20:33things I've learned is that you can three eight high grades and low grades the same way in the sense that this so when a kid brings an a home and we freak out and put on the fridge and we get all excited we call grandma you know what
00:20:47what we're teaching the kid is okay now I love you a lot because you brought home this this high grade and when they bring home a low grade and there's sort of met with that silence that disapproving silence what that teaches them is that I love the you
00:20:59less when you bring a low grade and when I talk to kids and a lot of times when I'm at schools I'm I'm talking to the students and I ask the students to raise their hands if they really and truly believe that their parents love them more when
00:21:11they get great good grades and in high school between ninety ninety five percent of those kids raise their hands %HESITATION if from middle school it's around eighty percent eighty eighty five percent so what we're teaching kids is that we love them more when they get good grades which
00:21:27means were withholding our love when they don't and that's a mostly that's called withdrawal of love based on performance and it's a really horrible thing to do the kids to the way around that is to treat the low grades and the high grades the same way not from
00:21:40an emotional perspective they're not the same thing I'm a teacher in a in an effort not the same thing but if your focus is on the process of what the kid did to get that grade then you can talk about the the process of getting you could say
00:21:54you know what did you do to get that great how did you study for this %HESITATION you say your friend got an a in you that an awful what did your friend do that you didn't do what did you do that your friend didn't do have you gone
00:22:04to talk to the teacher yet about what you could do differently next time what do you not going to do next time that you did this time all of that talk about process gets the kids had around the learning and it also models for them that you really
00:22:17do care about the learning because we tend to say that a lot you know all I only really care about is learning and they know we don't mean that ended all the other thing is the nice thing about that about focusing on process of a product is that
00:22:28per per pet per for excuse me for perfectionist kids kids that really get wrapped up in their anxiety over being perfect focusing on process of our product is the way in the way to defuse their anxiety over their performance the more we can focus on process of a
00:22:44product the more we can show them that we really do care about learning that we expect that they're going to have a learning curve that we expect that they're going to make mistakes but the important thing to us is how they handle it next time concept bikes robs
00:22:58here another thing as were about to go to Alaska questions but before that %HESITATION anything that I want to talk about that was just like the just had me mind blown in the book is a lot of the book is about a shift in mindset and paradigms in
00:23:17and also the use of language at some point you refer to an author who creates a contrast between chores verses them only contributions and you talk about a counter intuitive approach to helping kids help around the house instead of rewards for every little thing there are expectations %HESITATION
00:23:39tells forum about this well first of all I mean the I don't want to do something that's labeled a chore and he doesn't sound very fond of me if I go into my writing day as if it's a chore is it as opposed to you know this is
00:23:52my contribution to you know I write because I read about kids in juvenile justice and child welfare and I'm hoping to make a difference in the world for kids that's two very different mindsets about my work the word chore just sounds too cold to me and the other
00:24:07issue is that around the same time my book came out the same time to give to failure came out another book came out called the opposite of spoiled by Ron Lieber and Ron is the your money columnist for The New York Times and in that book he talks
00:24:20about you know teaching kids about money and and why we give kids an allowance and we don't pay at paying kids for chores is absolutely positively the wrong approach paying kids to make contributions to the family is it number one it doesn't work it's an extrinsic motivators my
00:24:37inflation will happen but also kids contribute to the family because they contribute to the family because we we support each other as a family and there's certain things that we do for each other because we are part of a family and we give kids an allowance because we
00:24:52need to teach kids about money and and and how money works and budgeting %HESITATION so those two things should be kept very separate but you know I I don't use the word chores because the word household duties are household responsibilities or family contributions just is more reflects what
00:25:08that work is you know when my kid comes home today I live in New Hampshire it's snowing actually right this very moment no my kids comes home from school today he's gonna have to bring in wood because that's how we heat the house we have been never would
00:25:20stuff that just switched on which is what the voices %HESITATION we heat with wood and so if he doesn't bring what in then we don't need you know the house doesn't stay warm and you know you have a lot of conversations about they're just things that we do
00:25:35for each other because were part of a family and and you know bringing in the wood shouldn't be one person's responsibility it's everyone's responsibility so yeah that's there's sort of two of a couple of facets to that the money side of it don't take kids to do stuff
00:25:49around the house that's not what allowances for and you know be a part of the family not you know you're not doing stuff around the house because you know you're getting paid minimum wage or whatever it is to do it wow so closing %HESITATION as we've been talking
00:26:04about the book at earlier before I conversation I even talked a little bit about my experiences just interacting with the book but %HESITATION as you've toured around the country spoken at different places interacted with different parents and students %HESITATION can you tell us maybe one story error %HESITATION
00:26:24our series of stories about the impact of the ideas of the book you know I I sort of I can think when I first started writing the book I envision that I you know I I was hoping I get letters saying no yeah my kid is you know
00:26:38I had no idea how competent my kid was or yes backing off on homework really did make them own their school work more and and that I was thrilled to death when I started getting those letters but I didn't want I didn't expect was the letters I get
00:26:52about the fact that when you give your kids more autonomy and you convey to them that you really do feel that they're competent and they're capable people that your relationship with your kids improves because when there's less nagging when there's less sort of harping on a you know
00:27:10I don't know how you feel at the end of an afternoon of nagging your kid to do their homework or whatever but I feel bad I I don't like that feeling of you know that constant come on remember you got to do what you gotta do it because
00:27:22then you get in this power struggle and they push back because your saying and you know and there's all this %HESITATION baggage around the nagging and and and being in charge of your kids life and that you can get back and get there's time you can get back
00:27:38in opportunities to talk about things that kids actually care about %HESITATION when I was at an assembly one time for parents of freshmen going in high school they had a %HESITATION the school had put a group of kids up at the front of the room seniors juniors and
00:27:53seniors and the parents of freshmen said to the juniors and seniors what could I do for my kid who's going to freshman year of high school to really make the year positive for them and the kids unanimously sad don't talk about school all the time you know it's
00:28:09not news to us when you say you know that test next week is really important or your grades junior year super important you know let us talk sometimes about the things that are important to us because they were really cute they said don't tell our parents we said
00:28:22this but we actually do like talking to them we just don't always want to talk about the things they want to talk about and when you get to know your kids through you know in in the book I talk about talking about great %HESITATION goals over grades and
00:28:35when you talk about your kids goals when you talk to your kids about the things that really move them when you talk to your like your kids about the things they really love then you really get to know your kids and you don't get into that self perpetuating
00:28:48cycle of of negative feelings around nagging and that those of the the letters I never expected to get and the letters I just absolutely cherish because you know that's that's the secret sauce right there is your relationship with your kids if you've gotten that then you can screw
00:29:05up a whole bunch of other stuff and %HESITATION and still I think the kids will probably be okay so for closing set of questions the first one that I I like to ask simply everybody is that the people that that are on our show are people that are
00:29:20very driven their visionary and there were some times %HESITATION doing a exceptional things in the world but I like to ask everybody what is one small thing you've done lately their product owned small thing might you know this month I have a podcast sorry there's clocking clicking the
00:29:36dogs I have to publishing house I guess raising getting those puppies to not be in the house that's been something and %HESITATION I have applied casting do with %HESITATION my former New York times editor called hash tag amber with Justin K. J. and on that podcast we both
00:29:52decided to spend this month %HESITATION really focusing on getting the words down every day and that's partially because this is national novel writing month and we wanted to participate and not just sitting down and getting the work done every day it's hard I mean getting it but in
00:30:07the chair and actually getting the words written is really really hard and for me it was just doing that this month just having that focus and not being tempted by you know emptying the dishwasher or having things be perfect before I get the words done that's something I've
00:30:22been really proud of this month because I don't know just getting is sitting down and getting the work done sometimes I'm really good at procrastinating I work at home and it's really easy to find other things to do but I'm really proud of myself for that for being
00:30:33diligent this month talking about long term when it's all said and done and you know you've read your last breath and your loved ones and everyone is reminiscing about who Jessica was what would you like everyone to say about you what would you like your legacy to be
00:30:50I really would love my S. funny I was talking about that yesterday with my younger son we were talking about %HESITATION a having a life with purpose and he's fourteen and so he's in sort of in this mode of thinking about you know what his life starting to
00:31:05think about what is life means and I said really specifically that you know I've decided as a teacher and as a writer %HESITATION I before I was a writer I went to law school to study juvenile justice and child welfare and unite my goal in life is to
00:31:21improve the lives of kids and whether that's on the small scale in my classroom %HESITATION I teach drug and alcohol addicted kids into inpatient drug and alcohol rehab whether I change the life of one kid %HESITATION I see my writing get I you have a larger audience and
00:31:36I can you know I get to it I'm lucky enough to have a bull horn and I can yell and scream about you know legislation around he knows juveniles in solitary confinement or whatever it is I just I hope I can make life make the world a better
00:31:49place for kids that's you know that's my goal that's my dream is for something positive to happen for children that that might not have happened yesterday if I hadn't been yelling and screaming about this stuff well everybody that is chess can you with us it's been such a
00:32:07great honor to have you today on the show with us %HESITATION for all those that were probably listening and we're having these moments of just while reflection in just a transformation in breakthroughs and and they want to stay connected with maybe reading your column listen to her podcast
00:32:24getting your black what's the best way to stay connected with you and everything you're doing at just go lay he dot com there's %HESITATION links to all my journalism sort of most popular articles all my stuff the New York times in the Atlantic in Vermont public radio and
00:32:37the book and my podcast all that stuff is there and you can I tweet about a lot of this stuff I'm pretty active on Twitter mainly because as a profession %HESITATION teachers are the largest users as are the biggest users of Twitter so I'm on Twitter a lot
00:32:51of people say oh you're on Twitter is not a dark and horrible place and I say not when you follow eleven thousand teachers because I think it I follow right now around eleven thousand teachers and and it's a pretty wonder Twitter is a pretty wonderful place when you're
00:33:03following teachers I'm incredible well thanks again thank you so much for having me I really appreciated what a conversation to get a little sneak peek over knacks coming episode with author and spiritual director Alicia brit Scholey listeners clip right here in so this call to the secret Sloan
00:33:26really isn't a call to go beyond one kind of mountain for a year so I that may sound really really attractive to a lot of us who were exhausted call is to begin to realize that we water our soul not just your we water are sold not just
00:33:43through that next great inspiring song or that wonderfully captivating book that you can actually begin to water your soul to the realization that god is profoundly with you you can exercise the muscles of your will to be profoundly crescent to him and then not that simple willful act
00:34:07we're beginning to water ourselves moment by moment minute by minute came by today to look more like a wrestler for then I can now our gas next week is Alicia Brett Scholey she's a spiritual director she's also mentor a two different people in a number of professions that
00:34:26people that are in the public eye she's also the author of the book the sacred slow holy departure from fast faith and this one's for all of you that for a long time have felt there's something missing in your spirituality ands in contrast to the fast movement of
00:34:50life Scholey invites us to pause and as we pause to rise with an even deeper strength the power of and she was talking about this to not give from a place of emptiness so it's a very very thought provoking conversation that you can't miss going back to this
00:35:13conversation with our gas our featured guest this week just Kalady my hope and desire is that what we share today was helpful to you please give us your feedback whether it be through my social media Josh will called is on Facebook Instagram or Twitter %HESITATION via my website
00:35:29Josh will call does not calm we'd love to hear what you have to say what gas you probably would like to have on the show what questions what topics you like us to explore and also what has resonated with you whether in this episode or in previous episodes
00:35:42keep sharing it with friends and family it's because of you that we continue to grow exponentially and be able to reach more people and have greater and greater gas so thank you so much wishing you all the best this week till next time grace and peace be with

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