Full Transcript for The Letter: Full Interview with Kristin BONUS EPISODE

00:05:04.709 I watched it. So in December of 2020, she had 69 00:05:04.750 --> 00:05:08.389 gone to New York to visit our family. And then 70 00:05:08.470 --> 00:05:10.689 she came back, and she was like, you know, I'm 71 00:05:10.790 --> 00:05:20.449 on this path. I'm... I'm looking into a healing journey. 72 00:05:20.529 --> 00:05:24.529 She kept talking about a healing journey. And she had 73 00:05:24.569 --> 00:05:28.350 talked to me about a program called Mother Wound. Now, 74 00:05:28.790 --> 00:05:30.870 I thought she was just talking about the same one 75 00:05:31.050 --> 00:05:35.920 that she had done before. And she began encouraging me 76 00:05:36.100 --> 00:05:40.959 to do it. And I was not interested. You know, 77 00:05:41.019 --> 00:05:44.060 and I explained to her, you know, I said, Lisa, 78 00:05:44.079 --> 00:05:48.120 you know, I've had children. And I think that's incredibly 79 00:05:48.180 --> 00:05:53.269 healing to a mother-daughter relationship. And my mother and I 80 00:05:53.310 --> 00:06:02.829 had multiple, like, really sit down, get it out, be honest, to, like, 81 00:06:03.629 --> 00:06:06.709 even if it's painful. And I said, you know, I 82 00:06:06.750 --> 00:06:10.310 just don't believe I have a mother wound. And she said, 83 00:06:11.259 --> 00:06:13.420 I could tell she was kind of offended by that. 84 00:06:13.959 --> 00:06:16.019 She was hurt. I really think that she thought this 85 00:06:16.060 --> 00:06:19.600 was a journey that we were going to take part 86 00:06:19.660 --> 00:06:24.879 in together. But I wasn't feeling it. Sometime before then, 87 00:06:25.079 --> 00:06:27.569 like I said, she lived in North Carolina from the 88 00:06:27.589 --> 00:06:31.949 full month of September all the way through December. I 89 00:06:31.990 --> 00:06:36.810 want to say it was January or February when they 90 00:06:36.850 --> 00:06:40.029 moved about an hour and a half away from me. But... 91 00:06:42.629 --> 00:06:45.480 we were always sharing stuff on Instagram. Like, oh, you 92 00:06:45.509 --> 00:06:48.720 should follow this person. You should follow that person. And yeah, 93 00:06:48.779 --> 00:06:51.839 we were a little bit into the conspiracy theories. So 94 00:06:51.879 --> 00:06:56.180 we were always sharing those things. And I believe that 95 00:06:56.620 --> 00:07:01.790 one of the pages that she really wanted me to 96 00:07:01.810 --> 00:07:05.350 look at was Leona Shanti's. And I do believe I 97 00:07:05.389 --> 00:07:12.149 followed her. Now, I think... And I might have this 98 00:07:12.269 --> 00:07:15.310 messed up, but I want to say one of the 99 00:07:15.350 --> 00:07:20.410 talking points that Lisa really brought up with me was 100 00:07:20.470 --> 00:07:25.529 that she was very Christ-centric, which I'm a Christian, and 101 00:07:25.829 --> 00:07:30.149 that she was very like anti-pornography. And I was like, oh, 102 00:07:30.189 --> 00:07:31.310 that's cool. All right. 103 00:07:31.389 --> 00:07:31.649 Yeah. 104 00:07:31.689 --> 00:07:37.060 So I followed her. And I remember her also saying like, 105 00:07:37.100 --> 00:07:40.810 she's very like anti-new age and You know, just really 106 00:07:40.870 --> 00:07:45.230 focus on like the truths of Jesus Christ. I'm like, 107 00:07:45.449 --> 00:07:49.990 all right, great. Sounds good to me. But after things 108 00:07:50.170 --> 00:07:54.290 turned and I went back and looked at this woman's page, 109 00:07:54.490 --> 00:07:57.310 I was like, wait a minute. All of this is 110 00:07:57.389 --> 00:08:00.439 new age. This is really bizarre. 111 00:08:01.129 --> 00:08:05.759 I think I unfollowed her before this. Lisa wrote us 112 00:08:05.899 --> 00:08:08.660 off before this stuff went crazy. Because I remember I 113 00:08:08.680 --> 00:08:11.279 didn't tell her. I didn't want to offend her. And 114 00:08:11.319 --> 00:08:12.839 I also didn't talk to her about it. 115 00:08:14.199 --> 00:08:18.250 Because I thought, well, you know, if it's helping her, 116 00:08:18.269 --> 00:08:22.209 if it's beneficial to her, I'm not going to judge her. 117 00:08:22.290 --> 00:08:25.449 I think it's great, you know. Those are kind of 118 00:08:25.569 --> 00:08:31.779 the conglomeration of the first memories I have of the 119 00:08:31.839 --> 00:08:37.639 Liana Shanti stuff. And I didn't put two and two together. 120 00:08:37.659 --> 00:08:42.940 I then asked Kristen if she could describe how things 121 00:08:43.139 --> 00:08:45.529 began to change with her sister. 122 00:08:46.990 --> 00:08:49.289 When Lisa wrote me a letter in the beginning of 123 00:08:49.450 --> 00:08:55.529 May of 2021 that we weren't going to speak and 124 00:08:56.559 --> 00:09:01.720 her reasons why, I just thought she was going through 125 00:09:01.779 --> 00:09:03.620 something and I was like, all right, well i'm gonna 126 00:09:03.659 --> 00:09:06.740 give her her space And then when my parents came 127 00:09:06.799 --> 00:09:08.879 to me in july and said what's going on with 128 00:09:08.919 --> 00:09:13.100 lisa and joe? I thought Oh, man, they you know, 129 00:09:13.159 --> 00:09:16.330 lisa and joe must have told my parents that they 130 00:09:16.409 --> 00:09:19.610 weren't speaking to me And that must be what they're 131 00:09:19.629 --> 00:09:23.429 talking about But it was actually that they wrote my 132 00:09:23.490 --> 00:09:29.279 mother and stepfather a letter and um When my mother 133 00:09:29.320 --> 00:09:31.299 called me to talk about it, she was like, it's 134 00:09:31.340 --> 00:09:33.889 this Liana Shanti. Is this Liana? And I said, what 135 00:09:33.909 --> 00:09:37.070 are you talking about? And my mother said, it's her. 136 00:09:37.129 --> 00:09:39.970 It's her. And, you know, she was looking at things 137 00:09:40.009 --> 00:09:44.129 that Lisa was posting. And she was looking how she 138 00:09:44.169 --> 00:09:47.960 had started a Twitter page. And she specifically said, I'm 139 00:09:48.019 -->

00:09:51.659 just here for Liana Shanti. And that's when we began 140 00:09:51.840 --> 00:09:58.960 putting the pieces together. That it wasn't just... I need 141 00:09:59.000 --> 00:10:03.840 some time. to heal and consider our family dynamic, but 142 00:10:03.879 --> 00:10:07.320 rather that she was very heavily influenced by someone that 143 00:10:07.360 --> 00:10:08.159 she was following. 144 00:10:10.820 --> 00:10:14.600 My next question for Kristen was to take us back 145 00:10:15.000 --> 00:10:19.259 to the start. I asked her, what do you think 146 00:10:19.340 --> 00:10:24.179 about When you think about Lisa before Liana Shanti, what 147 00:10:24.220 --> 00:10:26.509 are some of the things that come to mind when 148 00:10:26.529 --> 00:10:30.429 you think about your sister before any of this stuff happened? 149 00:10:32.789 --> 00:10:43.059 So my sister, she's more introverted, but she's absolutely phenomenal 150 00:10:43.120 --> 00:10:49.399 in social settings. She's beautiful. She's charismatic. She's smart. She 151 00:10:49.419 --> 00:10:52.710 could talk about anything. So you would never know she's 152 00:10:52.750 --> 00:10:57.730 an introvert unless you knew she was an introvert. She 153 00:10:57.789 --> 00:11:00.789 had worked online. She had clients. She had done a 154 00:11:00.830 --> 00:11:07.379 lot of work in the health industry. She was part 155 00:11:07.820 --> 00:11:13.480 of releasing children's books that made to the bestseller list. 156 00:11:14.179 --> 00:11:18.250 She was very good at marketing and things like that. 157 00:11:19.059 --> 00:11:21.179 But once she came down and moved to North Carolina, 158 00:11:21.299 --> 00:11:25.039 one of the things that I was observing was that 159 00:11:26.480 --> 00:11:34.840 everything she pursued was online. Meaning, her grocery shopping, she 160 00:11:34.960 --> 00:11:40.519 ordered everything online. Her clothing shopping, she ordered everything online. 161 00:11:41.059 --> 00:11:48.259 Her clients were only online relationships. Um... All of her self-help, 162 00:11:48.370 --> 00:11:54.309 her books, her podcasts, her music, everything was online. And 163 00:11:54.330 --> 00:12:01.820 it began to concern me because it seemed like she 164 00:12:02.019 --> 00:12:07.100 only wanted to live in her apartment in an online life. 165 00:12:10.299 --> 00:12:13.519 And I don't know if there was some agoraphobia going 166 00:12:13.879 --> 00:12:17.120 on or... maybe it was just a habit and where 167 00:12:17.159 --> 00:12:20.940 she was very comfortable. Um, so much of her career 168 00:12:21.279 --> 00:12:26.299 and her twenties were based on this very like online environment. 169 00:12:26.350 --> 00:12:29.009 And she was an expert at it. You know, this was, 170 00:12:29.309 --> 00:12:32.070 this was her career. This was her life. And she 171 00:12:32.629 --> 00:12:34.629 knew the ins and outs in ways that I could 172 00:12:34.669 --> 00:12:38.250 never comprehend. Um, I'm surprised I

was able to get 173 00:12:38.289 --> 00:12:43.639 on this podcast correctly today, but, um, It was a little, 174 00:12:43.659 --> 00:12:50.360 it was concerning. And when she was talking about being 175 00:12:50.419 --> 00:12:58.169 on a path and trying to more deeply understand relationships 176 00:12:58.269 --> 00:13:04.509 and where she was and her own thinking, all the 177 00:13:04.629 --> 00:13:08.350 answers she was pursuing online. And we had actually gotten 178 00:13:08.429 --> 00:13:11.409 into a little bit of I'm not going to call 179 00:13:11.470 --> 00:13:15.029 it an argument, but it was a very sensitive conversation 180 00:13:16.370 --> 00:13:21.169 where I told her, you need to stop pursuing all 181 00:13:21.190 --> 00:13:29.409 of these things to fix yourself and fit into this mold. 182 00:13:29.659 --> 00:13:32.539 And you need to just start living. You and Joe, 183 00:13:32.559 --> 00:13:36.080 you know, go buy a house. Go have some kids. 184 00:13:36.820 --> 00:13:39.570 You know, you're in your 30s. Part of the reason 185 00:13:39.610 --> 00:13:42.889 why you feel unfulfilled and you feel a little lost 186 00:13:43.590 --> 00:13:46.700 is because you're in limbo. And you're not going to 187 00:13:46.740 --> 00:13:48.789 find the answers in a course. You're not going to 188 00:13:48.840 --> 00:13:50.539 find the answers in a book. You're not going to 189 00:13:50.580 --> 00:13:54.559 find the answers from some person you're following. You're going 190 00:13:54.580 --> 00:13:56.940 to find it in living life. And it's okay if 191 00:13:56.960 --> 00:13:59.840 you make mistakes. You know, you're not going to be 192 00:13:59.960 --> 00:14:06.700 perfect and absolutely healed and like this stoic guru before 193 00:14:06.720 --> 00:14:09.039 you have children. You know, part of the way you 194 00:14:09.100 --> 00:14:15.039 grow is by raising children. And she was a little 195 00:14:15.110 --> 00:14:21.750 upset by that. But it was true. And even more 196 00:14:21.830 --> 00:14:26.490 true now. You know, I'm really... You know, once again, 197 00:14:26.509 --> 00:14:31.190 I just see her very much isolated and living an 198 00:14:31.350 --> 00:14:34.970 online life. And, you know, not only did she try 199 00:14:35.009 --> 00:14:39.960 to find... career, clothing, food, all of this online. But 200 00:14:40.019 --> 00:14:45.019 she also tried to find religion online. Faith and purpose online. 201 00:14:45.740 --> 00:14:48.779 Some things you can't get from a computer screen. You 202 00:14:48.860 --> 00:14:53.850 just have to live it. She was... I think her 203 00:14:53.879 --> 00:14:56.350 biological clock was ticking and she was looking in the 204 00:14:56.389 --> 00:15:03.269 wrong direction. She was at a pivotal point in her life. 205 00:15:04.509 --> 00:15:04.889 Where. 206 00:15:06.159 --> 00:15:11.419 Something was going to happen. And it was a crossroads. And, 207 00:15:12.700 --> 00:15:18.000 you know, I think she chose the wrong way. So 208 00:15:19.159 --> 00:15:21.879 we didn't have a lot of relationship when we were children. 209 00:15:22.330 --> 00:15:27.110 I desperately wanted a sister. And I finally got her. 210 00:15:27.429 --> 00:15:31.549 Best gift ever. But I was nine years old. So 211 00:15:31.570 --> 00:15:39.320 there's a big gap. And... You know, by that point, 212 00:15:39.500 --> 00:15:44.259 I was, you know, approaching preteens. And then by the 213 00:15:44.299 --> 00:15:46.720 time I was a teenager, she was the annoying kid 214 00:15:47.299 --> 00:15:51.039 that was messing with my makeup and going through my 215 00:15:51.100 --> 00:15:54.340 clothes and, you know, get out of my room. I 216 00:15:54.379 --> 00:16:00.049 can't stand you. You're driving me crazy. And then I 217 00:16:00.110 --> 00:16:07.240 went through some pretty big, just teenage stupidity. when I 218 00:16:07.279 --> 00:16:14.710 was 15, 16. And that was, it was due to 219 00:16:14.750 --> 00:16:17.710 a lot of factors. But I ended up running away 220 00:16:17.750 --> 00:16:21.990 from home when I was 15. And then I came back. 221 00:16:22.990 --> 00:16:27.870 And then I moved in with my grandmother when I 222 00:16:27.909 --> 00:16:30.110 was 16. And then I ran away from there. I 223 00:16:30.730 --> 00:16:32.649 was a little bit of a problem child. I was like, 224 00:16:33.190 --> 00:16:36.700 I was a bit of the black sheep. So Lisa, 225 00:16:36.759 --> 00:16:39.440 at that point, was six years old. Now, that's a 226 00:16:39.500 --> 00:16:46.889 really interesting point because one of the things that I 227 00:16:46.929 --> 00:16:51.389 have repeatedly looked back at, she talks about age six. 228 00:16:52.629 --> 00:16:57.419 That's the age that she connects to the very traumatic 229 00:16:59.399 --> 00:17:06.859 sexual exploitation and all of that. And I said, you know, 230 00:17:07.460 --> 00:17:10.740 when she was six, there was a lot of trauma. 231 00:17:11.599 --> 00:17:15.740 But it was primarily due to me. I moved out. 232 00:17:16.700 --> 00:17:18.980 There was a lot of fighting. There was a lot 233 00:17:19.000 --> 00:17:21.960 of arguing between my parents. Well, if you hadn't done 234 00:17:22.000 --> 00:17:24.299 this and she hadn't done that. And the, you know, 235 00:17:24.380 --> 00:17:31.279 pointing fingers. My sister lost her big sister. And that 236 00:17:31.400 --> 00:17:36.109 was a tremendous loss. change with a lot of turmoil. 237 00:17:36.130 --> 00:17:40.829 And then on top of that, I believe my brother 238 00:17:40.930 --> 00:17:45.859 Jason was living with us when I moved out. And 239 00:17:45.880 --> 00:17:49.160 then he moved out. And then our brother Jackie moved in. 240 00:17:49.180 --> 00:17:53.579 And then he moved out. So she was just like, 241 00:17:54.380 --> 00:17:58.660 she was the young little one, the very impressionable, very innocent, 242 00:17:59.880 --> 00:18:03.390 seeing all this turmoil with all these older teenage kids. 243

00:18:04.539 --> 00:18:08.000 And a lot of that stemmed from the fact that 244 00:18:08.200 --> 00:18:13.009 Lisa's father is my stepfather. And there was a lot 245 00:18:13.049 --> 00:18:18.970 of conflict between the two families. And my brothers, who 246 00:18:19.029 --> 00:18:22.579 are actually my stepbrothers, but they're Lisa's half-brothers, they share 247 00:18:22.619 --> 00:18:28.710 the same father. His ex-wife was... she was a very 248 00:18:28.890 --> 00:18:33.890 nasty person, drug addiction, alcohol, abusive. They were always trying 249 00:18:33.910 --> 00:18:37.609 to get custody of the boys. That creates, created a 250 00:18:37.650 --> 00:18:43.500 lot of conflict and a lot of stress. So when 251 00:18:43.619 --> 00:18:47.160 she says something traumatic happened when I was six, yes, 252 00:18:47.200 --> 00:18:54.599 she's right. Absolutely right. It's just not what you think happened. And, um, 253 00:18:55.660 --> 00:19:01.509 It's very interesting how malleable memories are and how you 254 00:19:01.549 --> 00:19:05.650 could take emotions attributed to a particular age and event 255 00:19:06.329 --> 00:19:12.869 and then twist it and input situations that didn't occur 256 00:19:12.890 --> 00:19:19.670 but become very believable because of the emotions that stirred 257 00:19:19.769 --> 00:19:22.990 during that time. And that's what I've seen a lot 258 00:19:23.059 --> 00:19:28.430 with her. So we didn't have a particularly close relationship. 259 00:19:28.470 --> 00:19:34.450 We became closer. I remember spending the night right before 260 00:19:34.509 --> 00:19:37.390 I moved to North Carolina, and she and I talked 261 00:19:37.450 --> 00:19:39.250 a lot. By then, she was a little bit older. 262 00:19:39.329 --> 00:19:41.759 She was a teenager. Let's see. I was 22, so 263 00:19:41.880 --> 00:19:54.109 she was 13. And... then when I moved to North 264 00:19:54.140 --> 00:19:56.809 Carolina she came to visit and she stayed at my 265 00:19:56.849 --> 00:20:00.569 apartment we hung out and watched movies and you know 266 00:20:00.589 --> 00:20:04.200 by then we began relating more And then by the 267 00:20:04.279 --> 00:20:08.460 time I was in my late 20s and she was 268 00:20:08.619 --> 00:20:14.599 in her late teens, now we were more peers. Now 269 00:20:14.660 --> 00:20:18.220 we started to really connect, not just as sisters, but 270 00:20:18.289 --> 00:20:20.470 as friends. And she became one of my best friends. 271 00:20:22.109 --> 00:20:26.049 She came to visit in 2009. I had just moved 272 00:20:26.109 --> 00:20:29.750 into my house and I had an entire itinerary planned. 273 00:20:30.470 --> 00:20:33.690 So we went out salsa dancing one night and we 274 00:20:33.769 --> 00:20:36.750 ate Mexican food and we went out to see my 275 00:20:36.809 --> 00:20:40.650 friend's band perform. And we went to Myrtle beach for 276 00:20:40.670 --> 00:20:44.500 a friend's wedding. And, uh, we went out to like 277 00:20:45.259 --> 00:20:48.720 a Gothic industrial club one night and we had a 278 00:20:48.880 --> 00:20:50.579 girl's night where we made a whole bunch of hors 279 00:20:50.619 --> 00:20:54.279 d'oeuvres and I invited my friends over and we were 280 00:20:54.339 --> 00:20:58.690 all hanging out. And I would say. there was a 281 00:20:58.809 --> 00:21:02.109 trip before that she did visit in 2008 but she 282 00:21:02.170 --> 00:21:06.630 was kind of right out of a breakup that day 283 00:21:06.789 --> 00:21:10.190 or that time period and she was struggling a little 284 00:21:10.230 --> 00:21:14.119 bit we still had a good time but she was 285 00:21:14.180 --> 00:21:18.500 sad and depressed and she met joe shortly after that 286 00:21:19.640 --> 00:21:22.079 and by the following year when she came to visit 287 00:21:22.140 --> 00:21:24.400 she was in a really different headspace and we had 288 00:21:24.440 --> 00:21:28.039 a great time we really connected and And we were 289 00:21:28.079 --> 00:21:32.099 very close from that point forward. And then we had 290 00:21:32.140 --> 00:21:33.819 a couple of visits. Like I would go up to 291 00:21:33.859 --> 00:21:37.559 New York. She used to live in Brooklyn and we 292 00:21:37.599 --> 00:21:39.759 went to shows in Manhattan and we would go out 293 00:21:39.779 --> 00:21:42.759 to dinner and visit family. And yeah, we had a 294 00:21:42.789 --> 00:21:44.650 great time. We really did. 295 00:21:46.289 --> 00:21:49.730 I remarked to Kristen at this point that whenever she 296 00:21:49.789 --> 00:21:54.309 mentioned Lisa's involvement in Liana Shanti's community, she also mentioned 297 00:21:54.569 --> 00:21:59.549 Lisa's husband, Joe. So I asked Kristen, were they both 298 00:21:59.710 --> 00:22:02.309 involved in the community at the same time? And how 299 00:22:02.349 --> 00:22:02.990 did that work? 300 00:22:04.210 --> 00:22:13.789 They were. Okay, let's see. So December was, they went 301 00:22:13.869 --> 00:22:15.950 to New York. That was the last time my parents 302 00:22:15.990 --> 00:22:21.779 saw them. And everything seemed okay then. According to Lisa, 303 00:22:21.799 --> 00:22:28.319 it was not. She says in her posts that She 304 00:22:28.359 --> 00:22:35.900 felt very uncomfortable in her father's presence. So I believe 305 00:22:35.920 --> 00:22:38.630 that she, at that point, had already been listening to 306 00:22:38.650 --> 00:22:42.750 the recordings. When they moved back, or when they came 307 00:22:42.809 --> 00:22:45.789 back to North Carolina, they decided that they were going 308 00:22:45.809 --> 00:22:51.180 to move to Raleigh. And that happened, I believe, in February. 309 00:22:51.259 --> 00:22:53.539 So I went up and visited. It was a cute apartment. 310 00:22:53.559 --> 00:23:02.789 And Um, we had plans to hang out and do things, 311 00:23:04.029 --> 00:23:06.710 but I ended up having surgery at the end of March. 312 00:23:07.210 --> 00:23:12.250 They came to visit me afterwards. Her birthday's

in the 313 00:23:12.269 --> 00:23:15.319 beginning of April. And I, I recall, I, I went 314 00:23:15.380 --> 00:23:17.920 to Texas and I came back and I was like, Hey, 315 00:23:17.980 --> 00:23:20.160 I'm back. I want to tell you all about my trip. 316 00:23:20.680 --> 00:23:24.440 You know, let's get together. And she kind of was 317 00:23:24.960 --> 00:23:30.490 blowing me off a little. Which was odd. You know, 318 00:23:30.529 --> 00:23:35.829 I had her birthday gifts and everything. And I hadn't 319 00:23:35.869 --> 00:23:39.190 really talked to Joe during that time. It was just Lisa. 320 00:23:39.210 --> 00:23:43.049 And then, like I said, the beginning of May, she 321 00:23:43.089 --> 00:23:47.730 sent me a very strange letter. I don't want to 322 00:23:47.779 --> 00:23:54.559 go too much into things that Joe has shared. But basically, 323 00:23:54.640 --> 00:23:59.279 from what I understand... when she really began to get 324 00:23:59.319 --> 00:24:03.980 into the teachings of Liana, she had expressed to Joe 325 00:24:04.119 --> 00:24:07.039 that she didn't think it was going to work and 326 00:24:07.140 --> 00:24:11.019 that if it was going to work between them, that 327 00:24:11.200 --> 00:24:13.869 he needed to get on board and he needed to 328 00:24:13.960 --> 00:24:16.650 pursue this healing journey with her. It needed to be 329 00:24:16.710 --> 00:24:23.569 something that they did together. Joe was very blindsided by it. And, 330 00:24:24.490 --> 00:24:28.369 you know, when they lived in North Carolina, they, you know, 331 00:24:28.410 --> 00:24:29.970 they had lived in New York for a long time. 332 00:24:30.029 --> 00:24:34.309 New York is very expensive. Money was tight. And then 333 00:24:34.410 --> 00:24:38.299 they're living in North Carolina. Things are increasingly more, just 334 00:24:38.450 --> 00:24:42.119 so affordable. They're going out to eat. They're enjoying themselves. 335 00:24:42.160 --> 00:24:45.000 They're going, wow, we could actually live on one income 336 00:24:45.079 --> 00:24:48.440 if Lisa decided to have children. And this was a 337 00:24:48.519 --> 00:24:54.839 whole new world for them. So, For Joe, I think 338 00:24:54.880 --> 00:24:58.680 he thought, man, like, this is great. This is where 339 00:24:58.720 --> 00:25:01.980 we've wanted to be. We're paying off debt. We're going out. 340 00:25:02.000 --> 00:25:06.559 I mean, this is wonderful. Like, we can actually really 341 00:25:06.720 --> 00:25:10.579 start our lives, you know, or pursuing a family and 342 00:25:10.940 --> 00:25:18.690 taking that next step. So when Lisa was like, yeah, 343 00:25:18.730 --> 00:25:21.450 I don't think it's going to work. I got to 344 00:25:21.470 --> 00:25:24.059 do whatever I need to do to save this. And 345 00:25:24.140 --> 00:25:29.359 so they did do the whole Liana Ashanti thing together. 346 00:25:29.440 --> 00:25:34.460 They decided to do the Health Mastery Institute. He quit 347 00:25:34.500 --> 00:25:40.019 his

job. She got rid of her clients. And they 348 00:25:40.079 --> 00:25:45.640 both went vegan. They were doing all the cleanses. They 349 00:25:45.680 --> 00:25:48.579 were listening to her recordings 24-7 in the apartment. 24-7. 350 00:25:53.319 --> 00:25:57.599 He said the sound of Leona's voice became like he's 351 00:25:57.660 --> 00:26:00.779 so triggered by it. He's like, I can't. He's like 352 00:26:00.819 --> 00:26:04.980 the hours upon hours upon hours that we listen to her. 353 00:26:05.059 --> 00:26:08.539 And Lisa was just eating it up. And Joe was like, 354 00:26:10.539 --> 00:26:13.640 I just I, you know, I can't. They did it 355 00:26:13.859 --> 00:26:18.900 for months. So I want to say. And like I said, 356 00:26:18.940 --> 00:26:21.529 this is. My memory may be off, but I want 357 00:26:21.549 --> 00:26:23.329 to say they did it for close to a year. 358 00:26:24.210 --> 00:26:28.210 I know that they filed for divorce, I want to say, 359 00:26:28.250 --> 00:26:34.019 in April. So if... Yeah, it was probably right at 360 00:26:34.059 --> 00:26:41.000 a year. They had moved to Florida. Because Tampa was 361 00:26:41.099 --> 00:26:45.920 on the list of okay safe places, according to Leanne. 362 00:26:46.500 --> 00:26:51.529 And so they up and left and they... were encouraged 363 00:26:51.670 --> 00:26:55.730 to move into a really nice place that was out 364 00:26:55.769 --> 00:26:56.569 of their budget. 365 00:26:57.809 --> 00:27:00.150 But it was the, you know, have faith, you know, 366 00:27:00.269 --> 00:27:00.930 go for it. 367 00:27:04.319 --> 00:27:07.160 You know, step out of your comfort zone and let 368 00:27:08.000 --> 00:27:12.819 the universe or whatever show up. And things became increasingly 369 00:27:12.859 --> 00:27:18.660 stressful for them. They both lost quite a bit of weight. 370 00:27:19.420 --> 00:27:28.240 From these cleanses and diets. Joe was... Emaciated. Emaciated. And... I... 371 00:27:29.799 --> 00:27:32.369 I don't know the... I don't know exactly when it was. 372 00:27:32.420 --> 00:27:33.950 But he said he had gotten to the point where 373 00:27:33.990 --> 00:27:43.670 he was suicidal. And... He said that... You know, Lisa 374 00:27:43.910 --> 00:27:46.950 had kind of gotten to the point where... When he 375 00:27:46.970 --> 00:27:52.079 would express... how hard it was and, you know, his 376 00:27:52.160 --> 00:27:55.019 mental state, how it was declining, she would accuse him 377 00:27:55.119 --> 00:28:00.359 of trying to manipulate her instead of empathizing with him. 378 00:28:01.920 --> 00:28:05.309 And so he just said, I can't do this anymore. 379 00:28:05.680 --> 00:28:06.289 And he left. 380 00:28:09.509 --> 00:28:13.029 At this point in the story, anybody who has listened 381 00:28:13.250 --> 00:28:17.549 to the full Insta Scammer series will understand the context 382 00:28:17.569 --> 00:28:22.660 behind in which Kristen is speaking. But I decided to 383 00:28:22.799 --> 00:28:27.089 ask her at

this point, what are the recordings? For 384 00:28:27.140 --> 00:28:31.450 anybody that doesn't know, this was Kristen's description. 385 00:28:32.670 --> 00:28:36.410 So I believe the first recording she listened to was 386 00:28:36.470 --> 00:28:41.970 Mother Wound. I know she also listened to Father Wound, 387 00:28:42.769 --> 00:28:46.839 a big one for her. when she also began pointing 388 00:28:46.900 --> 00:28:51.359 fingers at people, there's a recording about narcissists. Those are 389 00:28:51.380 --> 00:28:55.200 the ones that stand out to me. And she was 390 00:28:55.240 --> 00:28:59.299 listening to them over and over and over again, which 391 00:28:59.380 --> 00:29:03.789 is something that Leanne encourages. She says at the end, 392 00:29:03.980 --> 00:29:06.309 you know, put them on. Even if you're busy, just 393 00:29:06.349 --> 00:29:09.089 listen to it. Listen to it two or three more times, 394 00:29:09.549 --> 00:29:12.430 you know, today and just keep listening to it. So 395 00:29:13.130 --> 00:29:18.430 that's very suspicious. In the summer of 2021, I was 396 00:29:18.509 --> 00:29:21.769 renovating a house. And while I was working on the 397 00:29:21.789 --> 00:29:25.650 kitchen floor, I decided to listen to the one on narcissists. 398 00:29:27.450 --> 00:29:31.609 And I was a little concerned. I had heard a 399 00:29:31.809 --> 00:29:39.730 family members that chose to investigate because their families, you know, 400 00:29:39.750 --> 00:29:44.140 a family member disappeared and wanted nothing to do with them. 401 00:29:44.180 --> 00:29:48.700 And then they got sucked in. So I prayed up 402 00:29:48.779 --> 00:29:54.180 before listening to it. And I was kind of shocked. 403 00:29:54.299 --> 00:29:58.720 It was bizarre and ridiculous. I'm just going to say it. 404 00:29:58.849 --> 00:30:04.619 It was It was the most contradictory nonsense I had 405 00:30:04.980 --> 00:30:09.460 ever heard. And when it came to the end where 406 00:30:09.480 --> 00:30:15.240 there was the part where they do like this meditative nonsense, 407 00:30:15.299 --> 00:30:17.519 I just shut it off as I'm not listening to this. 408 00:30:18.380 --> 00:30:21.329 I listened to it and I think to myself, how 409 00:30:21.369 --> 00:30:26.369 did my smart, yeah, not just smart, like brilliant sister, 410 00:30:26.609 --> 00:30:32.450 like listen to this garbage. But, you know, I suppose 411 00:30:32.490 --> 00:30:34.970 if you're just in a place and you're open and 412 00:30:34.990 --> 00:30:37.569 you listen to it enough and, you know, I know 413 00:30:37.609 --> 00:30:42.789 that those recordings have been analyzed for neurolinguistic programming and, 414 00:30:43.269 --> 00:30:50.470 you know, certain very like hypnotic and suggestive language. I, sure. Okay. 415 00:30:51.509 --> 00:30:53.349 Maybe if I did listen to it more than once, 416 00:30:53.430 --> 00:30:56.170 maybe if I did sit down and contemplate my belly 417 00:30:56.210 --> 00:30:59.470 button and really get into the meditative portion of it, 418 00:31:00.829 --> 00:31:04.750 that could have happened. But I had my guard up. 419 00:31:05.390 --> 00:31:09.109 I wasn't open looking for answers. I was very protective 420 00:31:09.529 --> 00:31:12.549 of my mind when I was listening to it. 421 00:31:13.630 --> 00:31:17.049 For anyone that has listened to the full Insta Scammer series, 422 00:31:17.190 --> 00:31:20.490 you will know that there is a pivotal moment within 423 00:31:20.529 --> 00:31:24.250 the Liana Shanti community. One moment that a lot of 424 00:31:24.349 --> 00:31:28.880 Inner Circle members have strived for. And that is receiving 425 00:31:29.299 --> 00:31:35.299 their new Akashic name directly from Liana Shanti. Lisa has 426 00:31:35.380 --> 00:31:39.640 received her Akashic name and now goes by the name 427 00:31:39.660 --> 00:31:45.269 Milana Hokulani. I asked Kristen if she remembers when Lisa 428 00:31:45.549 --> 00:31:50.349 changed her name and the circumstances surrounding that name change. 429 00:31:51.549 --> 00:32:01.019 It was definitely after Joe had left. Perhaps. I remember 430 00:32:01.059 --> 00:32:09.509 the timing was, it felt very intentional and very, like, 431 00:32:09.849 --> 00:32:13.710 I'm just going to really nail this in. Like, if 432 00:32:13.750 --> 00:32:17.910 there's any possibility that Lisa is questioning or on the 433 00:32:17.990 --> 00:32:23.130 fence based on circumstances, I'm going to throw her this crumb. 434 00:32:24.170 --> 00:32:28.990 to really solidify her commitment. And I don't remember exactly 435 00:32:29.079 --> 00:32:31.140 when that was. It may have been when she moved 436 00:32:31.180 --> 00:32:35.480 to Hawaii or right before, but her name was changed 437 00:32:35.599 --> 00:32:42.380 to Milana Hokulani. And I don't even remember the meaning 438 00:32:42.460 --> 00:32:44.619 of it. I did look it up or maybe Lisa 439 00:32:44.660 --> 00:32:49.109 had mentioned what it meant online. And she, from what 440 00:32:49.130 --> 00:32:53.180 I understand, she has not legally changed her name. but 441 00:32:53.460 --> 00:32:56.900 she does use that online, Milana Hokulani. 442 00:32:56.920 --> 00:33:01.740 Is it typical for people to receive a new name 443 00:33:02.000 --> 00:33:03.880 when they are with Liana Shanti? 444 00:33:04.259 --> 00:33:09.569 Yes, very much so. You know, and that's very common 445 00:33:09.849 --> 00:33:15.450 for high control groups, you know, changing one's identity and 446 00:33:15.609 --> 00:33:21.029 creating this connection with others because they all have these 447 00:33:22.579 --> 00:33:31.579 Hawaiian or Polynesian influence names. You know, like, I guess 448 00:33:31.660 --> 00:33:35.660 kind of like Liana. They all have these names and 449 00:33:36.980 --> 00:33:39.440 I could barely pronounce half of them. But I know 450 00:33:39.460 --> 00:33:42.900 that they feel very honored when they receive it. I 451 00:33:42.980 -->

00:33:47.880 know that it's a huge celebratory thing in the group. 452 00:33:49.559 --> 00:33:54.380 And According to Leanne, she puts a lot of thought 453 00:33:54.460 --> 00:33:59.140 into it and perhaps she even receives it from her 454 00:33:59.220 --> 00:34:06.440 whale blubber encapsulated Akashanic records. I don't know. But maybe 455 00:34:06.500 --> 00:34:09.480 she has one of those bingo wheels and spins it 456 00:34:09.500 --> 00:34:11.179 and just takes one out. I don't know. 457 00:34:12.320 --> 00:34:14.860 I asked Kristen if she could give us some insight 458 00:34:14.960 --> 00:34:18.590 into Liana Shanti's belief system. Because at this point in 459 00:34:18.619 --> 00:34:21.690 my investigation, it seemed to me that the belief system 460 00:34:21.809 --> 00:34:24.349 was made up of lots and lots and lots of 461 00:34:24.429 --> 00:34:28.170 tiny little things. A little bit of everything, almost. 462 00:34:30.190 --> 00:34:34.090 Listen, I have looked at her posts and I have 463 00:34:34.369 --> 00:34:37.380 looked at some of the things she says. I would 464 00:34:37.409 --> 00:34:43.559 say that she's probably a very well-read person. But I 465 00:34:43.619 --> 00:34:52.900 have seen her plagiarize things. Podcasts, books, teachings, almost verbatim. 466 00:34:53.400 --> 00:34:56.929 I think that the reason why it's such a muddled 467 00:35:00.989 --> 00:35:06.329 mess of a faith, I don't know. I think it's 468 00:35:06.409 --> 00:35:11.079 because as she learns, she just throws new stuff out there. 469 00:35:11.579 --> 00:35:13.800 And it sounds good. And that way it's always fresh. 470 00:35:13.980 --> 00:35:21.780 And it's always... It's like she's receiving this revelation upon 471 00:35:21.840 --> 00:35:24.699 revelation when really, you know, she's just reading something and 472 00:35:24.719 --> 00:35:29.389 then regurgitating what she read. Yeah, I mean, there's definitely 473 00:35:29.449 --> 00:35:31.530 some truth in some of the things that she says. 474 00:35:31.929 --> 00:35:34.530 You're not going to give someone just straight rat poison. 475 00:35:34.550 --> 00:35:37.269 You're going to mix it with some sugar. Yeah. 476 00:35:39.510 --> 00:35:43.420 During my investigation for the Instascammer series, I was made 477 00:35:43.480 --> 00:35:47.460 aware of a property in Jacksonville, Florida that was nicknamed 478 00:35:47.559 --> 00:35:51.840 Destiny Manor. Destiny Manor was purchased by an Inner Circle 479 00:35:51.860 --> 00:35:55.590 member of Liana Shanti's community, and a group of Liana 480 00:35:55.610 --> 00:36:00.130 Shanti's followers moved into that property together. When Kristen told 481 00:36:00.210 --> 00:36:03.110 me that Lisa and Joe had moved to Florida, I 482 00:36:03.190 --> 00:36:06.010 wondered if they had moved to the same property. 483 00:36:07.650 --> 00:36:12.809 I have heard... that there was some communication, not much. 484 00:36:13.929 --> 00:36:18.469 There was suspicion, although it's

never been confirmed, that when 485 00:36:18.550 --> 00:36:23.219 Lisa originally fled from her apartment after Joe had left, 486 00:36:24.619 --> 00:36:27.599 because Joe left, I believe in April, but their lease 487 00:36:27.639 --> 00:36:33.800 wasn't up until December. And we thought perhaps she moved 488 00:36:33.860 --> 00:36:35.719 in with that family in that house. 489 00:36:36.960 --> 00:36:40.179 A common thing that seems to happen around Liana Shanti's 490 00:36:40.420 --> 00:36:43.360 online community is that when a person tries to leave, 491 00:36:43.920 --> 00:36:47.960 they may be subjected to a smear campaign. These smear 492 00:36:48.000 --> 00:36:50.980 campaigns have taken the form of pages on a hate 493 00:36:51.019 --> 00:36:55.719 website or constant mentions on Liana Shanti's Instagram page where 494 00:36:55.760 --> 00:37:00.309 she posts private screenshots of information about people who have 495 00:37:00.329 --> 00:37:03.849 left the community or people that are speaking out about 496 00:37:03.869 --> 00:37:10.309 Liana Shanti. When Joe left the community, what were the 497 00:37:10.349 --> 00:37:11.650 consequences for him? 498 00:37:12.989 --> 00:37:15.380 Yeah, that's a great question. I know that it was 499 00:37:15.469 --> 00:37:19.940 mutual at that point. So whomever filed, I think that 500 00:37:19.960 --> 00:37:22.179 they had just come to the understanding that this was 501 00:37:22.239 --> 00:37:26.460 not going to happen. He went straight back to New York. 502 00:37:26.599 --> 00:37:32.489 He went to his parents. And by then, he had 503 00:37:32.510 --> 00:37:36.769 been estranged from his parents for about a year, accusing 504 00:37:36.809 --> 00:37:43.940 them of you know, absurd things. But they welcomed him 505 00:37:43.980 --> 00:37:48.050 back with open arms. Their relationship is beautiful now. It's 506 00:37:48.130 --> 00:37:55.989 been completely restored. He, you know, went back, put weight on, 507 00:37:56.010 --> 00:38:04.130 you know, just healed physically, mentally. And I know that 508 00:38:05.190 --> 00:38:09.210 he was required to pay half the rent because they 509 00:38:09.230 --> 00:38:15.630 were both on the lease. But they really didn't communicate. 510 00:38:15.849 --> 00:38:19.510 There was some small communication here and there. But she 511 00:38:19.570 --> 00:38:24.210 was very, you know, we're done. We're not talking. You know, 512 00:38:24.250 --> 00:38:28.289 very as she had been with pretty much everyone. So... 513 00:38:31.260 --> 00:38:36.429 I hate to say it, but Joe spoke to my parents. 514 00:38:36.530 --> 00:38:39.650 I mean, right away, once word got out that he 515 00:38:39.690 --> 00:38:42.650 was back home, and I believe my parents found out 516 00:38:42.690 --> 00:38:46.869 from his parents because they had been communicating over the 517 00:38:46.929 --> 00:38:52.090 course of this. And it was bittersweet for my parents 518 00:38:52.230 --> 00:38:54.920 because they

were so happy that Joe returned home. They 519 00:38:54.940 --> 00:38:59.440 were so happy that his parents got him back. But 520 00:38:59.519 --> 00:39:04.170 at the same time, also reminded them that Lisa had not. 521 00:39:05.309 --> 00:39:08.170 And there was a lot of hope in the beginning 522 00:39:09.090 --> 00:39:15.340 that Joe's decision would affect hers. Of course, we haven't 523 00:39:15.360 --> 00:39:18.420 seen that. She just kind of dug in deeper. But 524 00:39:18.500 --> 00:39:23.570 when both of the parents spoke, my parents got online 525 00:39:23.829 --> 00:39:28.610 and shared some information. And I don't recall exactly what 526 00:39:28.630 --> 00:39:31.139 it was, but it was, you know, to their friends 527 00:39:31.280 --> 00:39:39.360 on Facebook and Lisa took it as Joe how dare 528 00:39:39.460 --> 00:39:44.059 you talk about these things it's not your business you're 529 00:39:44.820 --> 00:39:48.690 spreading rumors and lies, which he did not lie about anything. 530 00:39:48.710 --> 00:39:54.329 But Lisa was very offended that Joe was speaking about 531 00:39:54.389 --> 00:40:03.199 his experience. And she began saying some things about him, 532 00:40:05.510 --> 00:40:10.929 which then spread. It became an all-out it was an 533 00:40:10.989 --> 00:40:15.230 attack on him. It was an attack on my family. 534 00:40:15.250 --> 00:40:20.010 I was pulled into it. It was just, it went 535 00:40:20.070 --> 00:40:25.650 pretty crazy. It went nuts. Um, and what was funny 536 00:40:25.750 --> 00:40:29.510 is there was no campaign. It was just us kind 537 00:40:29.550 --> 00:40:33.210 of like talking and, you know, Jack, my stepfather, Lisa's 538 00:40:33.269 --> 00:40:36.909 dad did share a number of posts where he didn't 539 00:40:36.929 --> 00:40:41.409 really have anything nice to say about Liana. Um, He 540 00:40:41.449 --> 00:40:45.820 would say, you know, if anybody knows this person, you know, 541 00:40:45.889 --> 00:40:50.139 make sure your family members are not involved with her. She's. 542 00:40:53.159 --> 00:40:56.440 I don't know what words he used. Jack is definitely more. 543 00:40:58.179 --> 00:41:04.199 Colorful in his language. But his little girl was gone. And, 544 00:41:04.349 --> 00:41:06.510 you know, Lisa gets mad when we say that. But 545 00:41:06.730 --> 00:41:08.550 I think part of the reason why she struggles so 546 00:41:08.590 --> 00:41:11.480 much with that is because she hasn't had children. You know, 547 00:41:11.519 --> 00:41:15.340 there is an aspect of, you know, he just loves 548 00:41:15.380 --> 00:41:18.059 his little girl. She'll always be his little girl. 549 00:41:19.300 --> 00:41:22.760 So after Kristen and her parents had each received letters 550 00:41:22.800 --> 00:41:27.239 from Lisa, and after Lisa and Joe had mutually decided 551 00:41:27.260 --> 00:41:31.360 to divorce, I asked Kristen what came next. 552 00:41:33.889 --> 00:41:38.610 Lisa became very fearful. It was bizarre. We knew where 553 00:41:38.670 --> 00:41:42.170 Joe and Lisa lived. They didn't tell us. They tried 554 00:41:42.210 --> 00:41:44.829 to be sneaky about it. But come on, everybody's got Google. 555 00:41:44.909 --> 00:41:48.309 You could dig. We knew where they lived. We were 556 00:41:48.369 --> 00:41:51.320 keeping tabs. We wanted to make sure that they were okay. 557 00:41:52.880 --> 00:41:57.840 My mother and my stepfather live on the eastern side 558 00:41:57.880 --> 00:42:00.739 of Florida. Lisa and Joe lived on the western side. 559 00:42:00.800 --> 00:42:04.960 They were about two and a half hours apart. They 560 00:42:05.000 --> 00:42:10.739 never went over there. They respected their privacy. They respected... 561 00:42:11.050 --> 00:42:17.090 their choices and their demands. But after Joe left, Lisa 562 00:42:17.130 --> 00:42:22.050 had expressed that someone had tried to break into her apartment. 563 00:42:22.570 --> 00:42:27.619 And perhaps that's true. She was an attractive, young, single 564 00:42:27.699 --> 00:42:31.659 woman who had recently, like very obviously, there was a 565 00:42:31.699 --> 00:42:33.760 man in and out of the apartment. Now that man's 566 00:42:33.800 --> 00:42:39.019 not there. So perhaps that was true. But she thought 567 00:42:40.599 --> 00:42:45.110 that it was my stepfather or people. We had begun 568 00:42:45.230 --> 00:42:53.849 connecting with other families and someone had put a post 569 00:42:53.869 --> 00:42:58.980 on Rick Ross's website about, hey, there's a new cult 570 00:42:59.059 --> 00:43:01.119 that you guys need to keep an eye out for. 571 00:43:01.820 --> 00:43:04.360 And bam, like all of us kind of found it 572 00:43:04.380 --> 00:43:07.179 and we were communicating and we found each other through 573 00:43:07.280 --> 00:43:11.619 it and we're all commenting. And there was a Reddit thread. 574 00:43:11.840 --> 00:43:15.300 And then lo and behold, Liana Shanti's followers are on 575 00:43:15.360 --> 00:43:18.539 there and they're trolling it and they're getting on there. 576 00:43:19.760 --> 00:43:23.619 Lisa saw some comments that I had made. They called 577 00:43:23.659 --> 00:43:26.559 it a campaign. It's not a campaign, honey. It's just 578 00:43:26.599 --> 00:43:30.260 a thread. It's just people talking, communicating with one another, 579 00:43:30.800 --> 00:43:35.039 trying to find other people in the same situation to 580 00:43:35.079 --> 00:43:41.360 connect with. Because... It's the most bizarre experience. Rick Ross 581 00:43:41.719 --> 00:43:45.659 was one of the names. He had his website. And 582 00:43:45.730 --> 00:43:52.769 then Stephen Hassan, another person that has just done so 583 00:43:52.809 --> 00:43:55.730 much work, has a little bit of a seedy past 584 00:43:55.889 --> 00:43:59.969 before certain laws were passed about how you support people 585 00:44:00.070 --> 00:44:04.320 getting out of those environments. But Liana Shanti really shut 586 00:44:04.360 -->

00:44:11.329 that down and she began telling her followers that, sorry, 587 00:44:11.389 --> 00:44:15.869 I can't say followers, her students. That was one of 588 00:44:15.889 --> 00:44:18.289 the things I was chastised for on the Reddit thread. 589 00:44:20.789 --> 00:44:25.519 Her students, she began to tell them that these men 590 00:44:25.659 --> 00:44:33.340 were kidnappers, that they would get together with families and 591 00:44:34.030 --> 00:44:36.590 you know, get people that they believe were in cults, 592 00:44:36.710 --> 00:44:42.380 and they would deprogram them through these very aggressive means, 593 00:44:43.030 --> 00:44:52.239 isolating them, imprisoning them, you know, very, like, relentless deprogramming. 594 00:44:53.719 --> 00:44:57.800 None of those tactics have been used in decades, and 595 00:44:58.380 --> 00:45:02.110 neither would any of these reputable men participate in any 596 00:45:02.150 --> 00:45:06.980 of that. But that's what Lisa was convinced of. She 597 00:45:07.039 --> 00:45:15.030 was convinced that her family with these men were going 598 00:45:15.070 --> 00:45:20.929 to kidnap her and trap her and deprogram her against 599 00:45:21.010 --> 00:45:28.519 her will. And so she was living in a high 600 00:45:28.659 --> 00:45:32.389 cortisol state of fear in this apartment by herself. And 601 00:45:32.590 --> 00:45:35.050 I don't know if she heard noises. I don't know 602 00:45:35.090 --> 00:45:37.809 if maybe someone who had attempted to break in attempted 603 00:45:37.849 --> 00:45:41.150 to break in again. I don't know. Perhaps she had 604 00:45:41.190 --> 00:45:44.639 herself in such a state that maybe none of this 605 00:45:44.679 --> 00:45:49.920 happened at all. I don't know. But she fled for 606 00:45:49.960 --> 00:45:55.659 her life and went to the police department, put in 607 00:45:55.699 --> 00:46:02.360 a statement, and then they As a result of this, 608 00:46:03.340 --> 00:46:06.559 they showed up with like a whole SWAT team to 609 00:46:06.719 --> 00:46:11.699 my parents' house, surrounded the house, came to the door. 610 00:46:11.719 --> 00:46:17.050 And they were like, my parents are just like, what 611 00:46:17.199 --> 00:46:22.510 is going on? Like, we don't even, this is insanity. Well, 612 00:46:22.829 --> 00:46:26.289 the officer that spoke to my parents was also the 613 00:46:26.369 --> 00:46:30.530 one that took the statement from my sister. And he 614 00:46:30.710 --> 00:46:34.510 expressed that she was not well. It was very clear 615 00:46:35.409 --> 00:46:46.409 that she was in a state that... I don't want 616 00:46:46.429 --> 00:46:48.590 to put words into his mouth, but he said it 617 00:46:48.630 --> 00:46:53.309 was very clear that her story wasn't lining up. There 618 00:46:53.369 --> 00:46:59.769 was a lot of contradictions. It didn't sound believable. And 619 00:46:59.809 --> 00:47:02.269 then after speaking with my parents, they were like, we're 620 00:47:02.289 --> 00:47:05.139 not going to pursue any of this. We're not going 621 00:47:05.159 --> 00:47:08.320 to press charges. We had to look. We had to investigate. 622 00:47:08.380 --> 00:47:13.559 These are very serious allegations. But based on what my 623 00:47:13.599 --> 00:47:17.320 parents showed them and shared with them, nothing came of it. 624 00:47:18.070 --> 00:47:23.250 So they had received a letter that was written up 625 00:47:23.289 --> 00:47:26.809 by a lawyer. Lisa paid quite a big chunk of 626 00:47:26.849 --> 00:47:30.000 money to have that done. it was almost like a 627 00:47:30.059 --> 00:47:34.679 cease and desist type of thing. But it was, a 628 00:47:34.739 --> 00:47:38.940 lot of it was nonsense. They didn't, they really didn't 629 00:47:38.960 --> 00:47:42.449 take it seriously. This was the first time I want 630 00:47:42.489 --> 00:47:46.309 to say that she really had law enforcement get involved. 631 00:47:46.449 --> 00:47:51.269 And we, from our perspective, we were like, wow, her 632 00:47:51.349 --> 00:47:56.099 mental health is really declining. I mean, Just looking at 633 00:47:56.139 --> 00:47:58.699 it from an objective point of view, you know, your 634 00:47:58.760 --> 00:48:05.199 father is a law-abiding citizen. He's owned businesses. He's living 635 00:48:05.260 --> 00:48:09.250 his retired life. They've known where you live for over 636 00:48:09.289 --> 00:48:13.429 a year. They have not really... He did, I think, 637 00:48:13.489 --> 00:48:16.250 try to call her or send her a message at 638 00:48:16.309 --> 00:48:21.929 some point, which to her was... I mean, you might 639 00:48:21.969 --> 00:48:23.929 as well have shown up at her apartment and punched 640 00:48:23.949 --> 00:48:28.130 her in the face. Like, this was harassment. This was 641 00:48:28.230 --> 00:48:35.409 the most out-of-line, aggressive, abusive thing you could have done. 642 00:48:35.429 --> 00:48:39.159 It was a weird ride. Lisa did reach out to 643 00:48:39.219 --> 00:48:43.159 them at one point after she had sent them a 644 00:48:43.199 --> 00:48:45.840 letter stating that she wanted nothing to do with them, 645 00:48:45.880 --> 00:48:51.659 but she wanted... a picture of she and her grandfather. 646 00:48:51.679 --> 00:48:59.110 Of all things, which I found to be hilarious because I, 647 00:48:59.199 --> 00:49:00.760 you know, I said to my mom, I'm like, so 648 00:49:00.800 --> 00:49:06.809 let me get this straight. According to their teaching, the 649 00:49:06.849 --> 00:49:08.829 reason why people are so messed up is because they 650 00:49:08.869 --> 00:49:13.230 didn't grow up in a home with unconditional love. And 651 00:49:13.269 --> 00:49:16.050 that's why I'm such a mess. And that's why she 652 00:49:16.090 --> 00:49:18.280 went through what she went through. And You know, her 653 00:49:18.360 --> 00:49:21.960 father's a mess. Well, if her father's a mess, it's 654 00:49:22.000 --> 00:49:25.239 because of his father and his mother. Mind

you, she 655 00:49:25.280 --> 00:49:32.869 accused his mother of inappropriately touching her. But you want 656 00:49:32.909 --> 00:49:35.909 a picture of his father. Well, if your dad's a mess, 657 00:49:35.949 --> 00:49:38.849 according to your teacher, he's a mess because of his father. 658 00:49:39.269 --> 00:49:44.329 And that he was lacking unconditional love. So, you know, 659 00:49:44.590 --> 00:49:48.590 why not cut yourself off completely? And my mother was 660 00:49:48.670 --> 00:49:52.909 considering giving it to her. But then Lisa, I think, 661 00:49:52.969 --> 00:49:56.500 sent the letter saying some other stuff and put some 662 00:49:56.539 --> 00:49:58.800 things online. And my mother was like, well, now she's 663 00:49:58.840 --> 00:50:01.239 not getting it. Like, why would I do that for her? 664 00:50:01.800 --> 00:50:04.119 My mother looked at it as like an olive branch. 665 00:50:04.179 --> 00:50:05.900 Like she thought, well, maybe if I send this to 666 00:50:05.940 --> 00:50:08.019 her and I give her what she wants, maybe she'll 667 00:50:08.059 --> 00:50:10.500 talk to me. And then she realized there was no 668 00:50:10.559 --> 00:50:14.000 hope for that. And so she said, forget it. So 669 00:50:14.500 --> 00:50:19.000 when my parents called me in July of 2021 and 670 00:50:19.530 --> 00:50:22.730 they said, what's going on with Lisa and Joe? My 671 00:50:23.670 --> 00:50:28.869 stepfather was losing his mind in the background. He was like, please, Kristen, Kristen, 672 00:50:28.929 --> 00:50:31.110 just read this letter. What is she saying? What is 673 00:50:31.150 --> 00:50:33.860 she saying? I don't understand what she's saying. And my 674 00:50:33.909 --> 00:50:36.739 mother's like, I got to send you this letter. Like 675 00:50:36.980 --> 00:50:40.500 Jack's losing his mind. And the reason why they were 676 00:50:40.559 --> 00:50:43.219 responding that way is because Jack was in a complete 677 00:50:43.300 --> 00:50:46.780 state of denial. Because it was in that very first 678 00:50:46.840 --> 00:50:52.820 letter where Lisa, she didn't blatantly come out and say, 679 00:50:52.840 --> 00:50:59.929 I have memories of you sexually abusing me. But she 680 00:51:00.150 --> 00:51:09.269 definitely made it clear that that's what she was suggesting. 681 00:51:10.449 --> 00:51:18.090 And I had to tell him. I was like, you know, 682 00:51:18.429 --> 00:51:21.289 this is what she's saying. This is what she's saying. 683 00:51:21.710 --> 00:51:24.710 And he was like, what? What? No, no, no. I mean, 684 00:51:24.750 --> 00:51:31.500 he was so flustered. He was so blindsided. He was 685 00:51:31.659 --> 00:51:38.820 so confused. His mind could not even comprehend what was 686 00:51:38.880 --> 00:51:43.309 being said. And then there was, like, no details. There 687 00:51:43.349 --> 00:51:47.670 was nothing about it. We got all of that later online. 688 00:51:49.289 --> 00:51:57.449 And those types of posts, mainly on Leanne's page and

689 00:51:58.590 --> 00:52:08.559 her website, where she exposes people. And then there were 690 00:52:08.599 --> 00:52:11.940 more and more details, which... At the time that Lisa 691 00:52:12.119 --> 00:52:14.619 originally wrote that letter to them, I don't think that 692 00:52:14.880 --> 00:52:20.579 she had gone into enough of a meditative state to 693 00:52:20.659 --> 00:52:25.820 have fabricated these memories. I think those came later on. 694 00:52:26.000 --> 00:52:35.489 And also, when Lisa would say things like, the body 695 00:52:35.570 --> 00:52:39.989 never forgets. So she would say, I feel, I would 696 00:52:40.070 --> 00:52:43.929 feel uncomfortable around certain people. I would have these like 697 00:52:44.110 --> 00:52:52.130 flashes of a memory, but she couldn't identify who was responsible. 698 00:52:53.210 --> 00:52:56.170 You know, maybe now I'm putting words into her mouth here, 699 00:52:56.210 --> 00:52:58.719 but almost like she would have a memory of a 700 00:52:58.840 --> 00:53:02.920 feeling or a memory of a hand or a memory 701 00:53:03.199 --> 00:53:09.559 of a pressure or something. And from what I have 702 00:53:09.599 --> 00:53:13.139 been told, I did not get this directly from Lisa, 703 00:53:13.179 --> 00:53:17.260 but from what I was told, when she began to 704 00:53:17.539 --> 00:53:21.789 experience these things while listening to the recordings and meditating, 705 00:53:23.110 --> 00:53:30.469 she asked Leanne for confirmation. And Leanne said, yes, it 706 00:53:30.489 --> 00:53:35.070 did happen. And this is who it happened with. And 707 00:53:35.320 --> 00:53:36.019 there were more. 708 00:53:37.369 --> 00:53:41.329 This next section of the podcast comes with a trigger warning. 709 00:53:42.449 --> 00:53:47.409 There will be mentions of child sexual abuse. Please listen 710 00:53:47.530 --> 00:53:50.190 with caution and stop if you need to. 711 00:53:52.230 --> 00:53:56.219 I would love to talk about the biggest accusation with Jack. 712 00:53:57.019 --> 00:53:59.360 I would really like to talk about that because it 713 00:54:00.780 --> 00:54:07.630 is a great illustration of how memories are warped. So 714 00:54:07.650 --> 00:54:14.639 a little bit of backstory, Lisa, um, suffered from pretty 715 00:54:14.719 --> 00:54:20.000 severe constipation when she was very small. Um, I don't 716 00:54:20.039 --> 00:54:22.679 even think she was a year old. And so there 717 00:54:22.699 --> 00:54:25.840 were certain things that my mother would do. Um, my 718 00:54:25.900 --> 00:54:27.989 mom would sit her on a little potty in front 719 00:54:28.010 --> 00:54:31.650 of Sesame street and feed her little snacks on a tray. 720 00:54:32.309 --> 00:54:34.590 And just so she would relax and sit down and 721 00:54:34.650 --> 00:54:44.639 go and, um, The doctors prescribed laxatives and she was 722 00:54:44.719 --> 00:54:50.449 given suppositories, which I think the memory of the feeling 723 00:54:50.820 --> 00:54:56.969 of

the insertion of a suppository has merged into something 724 00:54:57.010 --> 00:55:00.489 that it wasn't. When my sister was a little over 725 00:55:00.510 --> 00:55:02.829 a year old, I think it was right around that time, 726 00:55:03.550 --> 00:55:07.239 a doctor examined her. And he inserted a finger and 727 00:55:08.920 --> 00:55:14.800 he said there was a bend to her rectum. So 728 00:55:14.840 --> 00:55:20.130 that was probably causing an obstruction or she experienced discomfort 729 00:55:20.190 --> 00:55:23.590 and then would hold it in. And this was such 730 00:55:23.630 --> 00:55:27.610 a common thing with her. Like when she was real little, 731 00:55:27.829 --> 00:55:30.550 she would tense up and she would straighten her body 732 00:55:30.590 --> 00:55:32.550 and she put her little fist to her side and 733 00:55:32.610 --> 00:55:35.659 she turned blood red. whenever she would have to have 734 00:55:35.699 --> 00:55:38.639 a bowel movement. So this was an issue. And what 735 00:55:38.679 --> 00:55:41.699 was funny, when my sister came to visit back in 2009, 736 00:55:41.699 --> 00:55:43.980 and we had that really good visit, we ended up 737 00:55:44.019 --> 00:55:49.159 having a discussion about how she suffered from constipation when 738 00:55:49.199 --> 00:55:50.760 she was younger. And I was like, yeah, I really 739 00:55:50.820 --> 00:55:52.900 suffered from it too. We were like, I wonder if 740 00:55:52.920 --> 00:55:55.139 we both were a little crooked up there. You know, 741 00:55:55.179 --> 00:55:57.940 maybe it's like a genetic thing. And we just, we 742 00:55:57.960 --> 00:56:00.320 got a laugh out of it. You know, being adults, 743 00:56:00.639 --> 00:56:06.070 we kind of figured out how to alleviate that. And 744 00:56:06.429 --> 00:56:14.769 that was something we really bonded on. Sisters are weird. Lisa, 745 00:56:15.070 --> 00:56:18.360 so this was after I had moved out. She was 746 00:56:18.409 --> 00:56:21.880 about six years old. And I remember hearing about this 747 00:56:22.000 --> 00:56:27.659 incident that Lisa had gotten so backed up that she 748 00:56:27.699 --> 00:56:33.590 was in excruciating abdominal pain. And Jack was home with 749 00:56:33.630 --> 00:56:36.969 her and I believe my mother was working. My mom 750 00:56:37.010 --> 00:56:42.949 worked evenings and Jack called my mother and said, I 751 00:56:42.969 --> 00:56:45.519 don't know what to do for her. And he was like, 752 00:56:45.820 --> 00:56:48.960 I'm not putting a suppository up her. You know, I'm 753 00:56:49.000 --> 00:56:51.800 a man like that's my daughter. I'm, I'm, that makes 754 00:56:51.840 --> 00:56:54.989 me very uncomfortable. I won't do that. My mother said, well, 755 00:56:56.210 --> 00:57:01.030 then just bring her to the emergency room. And that's 756 00:57:01.070 --> 00:57:08.289 what he did. They don't remember what the emergency room did. Now, 757 00:57:08.309 --> 00:57:12.869 based on my knowledge of what they do, if a 758 00:57:12.909 --> 00:57:16.429 child comes in with suspected constipation, they're going to do 759 00:57:16.929 --> 00:57:20.349 abdominal palpations. They're going to see if there's any like 760 00:57:20.389 --> 00:57:25.190 hardening or obstruction. They may order an abdominal x-ray, which 761 00:57:25.530 --> 00:57:28.269 they will definitely see what's going on. So my guess 762 00:57:28.329 --> 00:57:31.880 is that's the route that they took. My parents do 763 00:57:31.920 --> 00:57:35.460 not remember the treatment. They don't remember prescription. They don't 764 00:57:35.500 --> 00:57:39.969 remember anything. They just remember Jack was freaking out. He 765 00:57:40.010 --> 00:57:44.929 didn't know what to do. Now, Lisa, now this is 766 00:57:45.010 --> 00:57:50.949 what she has shared online in a very accusatory and 767 00:57:50.969 --> 00:58:01.090 defamatory way. She states that that afternoon, Jack... sexually assaulted 768 00:58:01.130 --> 00:58:08.380 her on our parents' bed. And that it wasn't just, 769 00:58:08.900 --> 00:58:10.500 I don't know what words I can use. It wasn't 770 00:58:10.519 --> 00:58:16.219 just vaginal. It was anal. And that she was in 771 00:58:16.300 --> 00:58:22.969 excruciating pain due to that assault. And after he did 772 00:58:23.050 --> 00:58:28.090 take her to the emergency room where they diagnosed it, 773 00:58:29.239 --> 00:58:38.909 as constipation, they administered a suppository and sent them home. Okay, 774 00:58:39.409 --> 00:58:47.250 your own words condemn you. Let's think about this for 775 00:58:47.289 --> 00:58:51.179 a minute. A six-year-old child and an adult man, do 776 00:58:51.219 --> 00:58:53.659 you not think that there was any damage that incurred 777 00:58:54.579 --> 00:58:59.000 from that type of assault? If he was your abuser, 778 00:58:59.199 --> 00:59:02.000 if he had actually done this, would he take you 779 00:59:02.059 --> 00:59:06.949 to the emergency room where his secrets would be discovered? Then, 780 00:59:07.030 --> 00:59:11.179 by her own admission, she was examined. by a doctor, 781 00:59:11.320 --> 00:59:17.199 and emergency room doctors are very well trained in identifying abuse, 782 00:59:17.480 --> 00:59:22.400 especially of a sexual nature. But she states that they 783 00:59:23.199 --> 00:59:30.260 examined her, wrongfully diagnosed her with constipation, Are you serious? 784 00:59:30.820 --> 00:59:36.539 And that they administered a suppository. So they saw you 785 00:59:36.599 --> 00:59:40.260 down there and they saw absolutely no evidence of abuse 786 00:59:40.500 --> 00:59:48.719 while giving you treatment for the incorrectly diagnosed constipation and 787 00:59:48.760 --> 00:59:56.219 then sent you home. Like, what kind of idiot? It 788 00:59:56.260 --> 01:00:03.599 didn't happen. It's ridiculous. absolutely ridiculous. Like for a moment, 789 01:00:03.679 --> 01:00:06.829 consider the words coming out of your mouth, look at it, 790 01:00:06.960 -->

01:00:10.420 critically analyze it. Now I'm not saying for one moment 791 01:00:10.480 --> 01:00:12.559 that there are not children who show up to an 792 01:00:12.619 --> 01:00:16.420 emergency room as a result of abuse and are sent 793 01:00:16.460 --> 01:00:20.199 back home. I'm not saying that. Okay. That does happen. 794 01:00:21.260 --> 01:00:25.570 But what you are saying, and she did say that 795 01:00:25.650 --> 01:00:29.219 she was bleeding. She did say, that she was really 796 01:00:29.260 --> 01:00:36.239 banged up from this encounter. A doctor or nurse would 797 01:00:36.280 --> 01:00:39.019 have seen that and would have had the police there 798 01:00:39.360 --> 01:00:43.320 in a heartbeat. Stop lying. You sound like a fool. 799 01:00:44.119 --> 01:00:47.639 And my sister is smarter than this. So what is 800 01:00:47.719 --> 01:00:56.769 going on that she cannot identify the problems with this story? Now, 801 01:00:56.949 --> 01:01:03.820 I called that hospital back in, I think it was 2022. 802 01:01:03.820 --> 01:01:06.800 I contacted them. I said, let's just see if they 803 01:01:06.860 --> 01:01:13.619 had the medical records from this. And unfortunately, they had 804 01:01:13.659 --> 01:01:16.900 gotten rid of them. It was a very unusual number 805 01:01:16.980 --> 01:01:20.179 of years that they held on to medical records. It 806 01:01:20.219 --> 01:01:23.119 was like I'm throwing out a number, but it was 807 01:01:23.159 --> 01:01:26.260 like 23. It wasn't like 10, 15 or 20. It 808 01:01:26.300 --> 01:01:30.780 was like this weird number and they would have gotten 809 01:01:31.059 --> 01:01:34.250 rid of those records. I want to say just two 810 01:01:34.289 --> 01:01:37.849 or three years before the accusations online came out. So 811 01:01:37.869 --> 01:01:42.349 they were already gone. Um, when we went through my 812 01:01:42.409 --> 01:01:47.480 parents' house, when they moved to Florida, um, We got 813 01:01:47.539 --> 01:01:49.559 rid of so much stuff. They held on to everything. 814 01:01:49.599 --> 01:01:53.050 They probably had the medical records there, but, you know, 815 01:01:53.159 --> 01:01:57.010 we wouldn't have even thought to hold on to them. So, 816 01:01:58.690 --> 01:02:02.989 any evidence is gone at this point. Other than how 817 01:02:03.050 --> 01:02:05.929 ridiculous the story is and anyone with half a brain 818 01:02:05.989 --> 01:02:09.670 cell could listen to it and say, that doesn't make sense. 819 01:02:12.250 --> 01:02:19.710 What's What were your reactions and feelings in hearing these accusations, 820 01:02:19.869 --> 01:02:22.570 reading these accusations online about your stepfather? 821 01:02:23.789 --> 01:02:33.280 So, I mean, for one, it was infuriating. They had 822 01:02:36.340 --> 01:02:40.650 just moved to Florida fairly recently. They were looking for 823 01:02:40.849 --> 01:02:45.679 a fresh start. a more affordable, fresh start. Like I said, 824 01:02:45.719 --> 01:02:50.260 New York

was very expensive. Lisa was one of the 825 01:02:50.300 --> 01:02:54.320 primary people that encouraged them to leave. You know, just 826 01:02:54.380 --> 01:02:59.000 go down there, start a new life. Stop being under 827 01:02:59.099 --> 01:03:01.610 all this pressure and hustle and bustle and keeping up 828 01:03:01.639 --> 01:03:04.179 with the Joneses and all this other nonsense that New 829 01:03:04.219 --> 01:03:12.090 York has. And here they were. And it wasn't It 830 01:03:12.210 --> 01:03:17.599 wasn't fresh and new. They had this whole, it was horrible. 831 01:03:18.340 --> 01:03:20.960 And you do a Google search on his name. This 832 01:03:21.019 --> 01:03:24.360 is what comes up. And here he is trying to 833 01:03:24.420 --> 01:03:29.449 establish himself in a new place where he doesn't know people, 834 01:03:30.489 --> 01:03:36.570 doing his trade, making money, supporting them. And it was 835 01:03:36.630 --> 01:03:39.429 pretty tough in the beginning. And every time he would 836 01:03:39.449 --> 01:03:41.840 hit a wall, He would say, well, is it because 837 01:03:41.880 --> 01:03:45.500 someone Googled me? Is it because they saw this stuff online? 838 01:03:46.500 --> 01:03:51.320 What a horrible thing to say about someone. So often 839 01:03:51.440 --> 01:03:54.300 what we have said was, listen, if you want nothing 840 01:03:54.360 --> 01:03:59.719 to do with us, then just go. Just go. Why 841 01:03:59.739 --> 01:04:02.449 do you have to set everything on fire behind you? 842 01:04:04.809 --> 01:04:11.269 And they're lies. They're just horrible, horrible lies. And it 843 01:04:11.329 --> 01:04:15.179 wasn't just Jack. She said that I molested her, that 844 01:04:15.219 --> 01:04:18.659 Jack's mother molested her, that my mother's father molested her, 845 01:04:18.719 --> 01:04:22.320 that an uncle molested her, that a neighbor molested her. Now, 846 01:04:22.360 --> 01:04:24.860 there is some truth. I believe there is some truth 847 01:04:24.880 --> 01:04:29.739 to that one. And that my mother's ex-business partner's husband 848 01:04:29.760 --> 01:04:34.599 molested her. Like, come on. No one else has ever 849 01:04:34.639 --> 01:04:39.159 been accused from anybody else. No one has ever even 850 01:04:39.219 --> 01:04:44.349 been suspected. Now, Jack and I had a rough relationship 851 01:04:44.389 --> 01:04:47.730 when I was younger. I was the stepchild. You know 852 01:04:47.750 --> 01:04:50.889 what the number one indicator is that a child will 853 01:04:50.909 --> 01:04:55.809 be abused? That they have a step-parent. Number one, if 854 01:04:55.869 --> 01:05:00.280 he was going to exhibit that type of abusive behavior 855 01:05:00.320 --> 01:05:03.820 with anyone, it would have been me, not his own 856 01:05:03.900 --> 01:05:12.599 flesh and blood. And he never, never, And like I said, 857 01:05:12.699 --> 01:05:16.219 we had some really rough patches when I was younger, 858 01:05:16.340 --> 01:05:19.739 and we're in a great

place now. But man, if 859 01:05:19.820 --> 01:05:23.449 I wanted to be hateful and jump on the bandwagon 860 01:05:23.469 --> 01:05:29.869 and say this stuff, but I would have some integrity. 861 01:05:29.889 --> 01:05:33.809 And I say that, and at the same time, I 862 01:05:35.050 --> 01:05:39.139 know my sister has integrity. That's why I know this 863 01:05:39.239 --> 01:05:42.769 is not of her own volition. This is not the 864 01:05:42.809 --> 01:05:46.150 type of thing that she would say and do. Unless 865 01:05:46.429 --> 01:06:01.780 she was convinced by nefarious tactics. So, yeah, this is 866 01:06:01.920 --> 01:06:05.579 not my sister. This is not, it just doesn't make sense. 867 01:06:08.389 --> 01:06:16.059 There was an Instagram story that was shared on Liana 868 01:06:16.099 --> 01:06:22.809 Shanti's Instagram page. It was shared to Liana Shanti's account 869 01:06:23.050 --> 01:06:27.250 from one of her followers called Amaraja. 870 01:06:27.269 --> 01:06:29.500 And it says. 871 01:06:30.320 --> 01:06:34.380 With enough outreach and finding additional potential victims of Jack 872 01:06:34.420 --> 01:06:36.920 from the daycare he had in his home, in addition 873 01:06:36.980 --> 01:06:41.079 to Milana's testimony of rape, including hospital visits for anal 874 01:06:41.099 --> 01:06:45.300 problems as a six-year-old, her parents took her to hospital 875 01:06:45.400 --> 01:06:49.300 and hospitals have records. Which version of events happens to 876 01:06:49.340 --> 01:06:55.469 be true? There's no records. So that is not truthful 877 01:06:55.590 --> 01:06:57.269 in this Instagram story. 878 01:06:57.889 --> 01:07:01.070 No, I wish hospitals did have records. I wish it did. 879 01:07:02.210 --> 01:07:05.079 At this point in our conversation, I asked Kristen if 880 01:07:05.119 --> 01:07:08.539 she could offer us some clarification on what was meant 881 01:07:08.699 --> 01:07:11.400 by the daycare in Jack's home. 882 01:07:12.940 --> 01:07:15.980 Okay, so the house that we grew up in was 883 01:07:16.570 --> 01:07:21.449 a high ranch and the downstairs had an apartment in it. 884 01:07:21.789 --> 01:07:24.750 So half of the downstairs was a private apartment, a 885 01:07:24.849 --> 01:07:28.199 legal private apartment. And after a lot of run-ins with 886 01:07:28.239 --> 01:07:32.760 some horrible tenants, my mother decided to pursue her dream 887 01:07:33.059 --> 01:07:36.920 to own a daycare. So Jack, being the carpenter that 888 01:07:36.960 --> 01:07:40.239 he was, he went in and he modified some of 889 01:07:40.260 --> 01:07:42.210 the walls and this and that, and they turned it 890 01:07:42.269 --> 01:07:45.989 into a daycare. And my mother ran that for over 891 01:07:45.989 --> 01:07:52.530 20 years. And during those 20 years, not a single 892 01:07:53.179 --> 01:07:59.400 complaint was ever filed against her. for any type of physical, mental, verbal, 893 01:08:01.320 --> 01:08:05.800 sexual abuse ever. Nothing but good things to say. And 894 01:08:08.909 --> 01:08:15.849 my mother continuously cooperated with social services, child protective services 895 01:08:15.909 --> 01:08:22.260 when investigating parents of potential neglect or abuse or even 896 01:08:22.420 --> 01:08:26.939 investigating for the purpose of social programs and welfares and 897 01:08:26.979 --> 01:08:34.100 things like that. So they talk about campaigns. I would 898 01:08:34.180 --> 01:08:38.590 hardly think that people expressing their opinions and looking for 899 01:08:40.729 --> 01:08:45.029 like-minded folks is a campaign. However, my sister, what she 900 01:08:45.069 --> 01:08:49.970 did was absolutely a campaign. She went public. and created 901 01:08:49.989 --> 01:08:56.859 a online form that she was encouraging prior daycare, um, 902 01:09:00.220 --> 01:09:03.220 either the young people that went there or their parents 903 01:09:03.279 --> 01:09:09.710 who had children go there to fill out because what 904 01:09:09.770 --> 01:09:15.390 she was trying to say was that our mother, not 905 01:09:15.449 --> 01:09:18.890 only was she aware of of this imaginary abuse, but 906 01:09:18.899 --> 01:09:23.710 that she condoned it. She covered up for my stepfather's 907 01:09:23.949 --> 01:09:29.390 indiscretions and that the very bedroom that my sister was 908 01:09:29.649 --> 01:09:34.989 allegedly sodomized in was directly above the daycare. So here's 909 01:09:35.029 --> 01:09:40.710 this woman running a daycare and her husband is raping 910 01:09:40.770 --> 01:09:45.069 and sodomizing her daughter in the same home. And even 911 01:09:45.109 --> 01:09:48.859 when she came out with that form, You know, my 912 01:09:48.899 --> 01:09:51.829 mother and I discussed it and I said, you need 913 01:09:51.850 --> 01:09:56.750 to be proactive about this. Be forthcoming. You have nothing 914 01:09:56.810 --> 01:10:00.930 to hide. So you get on your old Facebook home 915 01:10:00.989 --> 01:10:04.920 away from home daycare page and you put out a statement. 916 01:10:06.199 --> 01:10:10.460 You don't have to get into the disgusting details and allegations, 917 01:10:11.279 --> 01:10:15.149 but you Just let people know that if they have 918 01:10:15.239 --> 01:10:17.609 questions or concerns that they could reach out to you 919 01:10:17.670 --> 01:10:23.850 directly and that you are more than willing to answer 920 01:10:24.210 --> 01:10:27.270 any concerns that they have, because that's scary. You know, 921 01:10:27.310 --> 01:10:30.819 if I suddenly heard stuff like this about a daycare 922 01:10:30.859 --> 01:10:33.560 that my children attended, which, to be fair, my son 923 01:10:33.600 --> 01:10:34.399 did attend there. 924 01:10:36.100 --> 01:10:36.260 And. 925 01:10:38.520 --> 01:10:44.560 My mother received nothing other than an overwhelming flood of 926 01:10:44.659 --> 01:10:52.010 support and compassion. So being a student of Liana Shanti, 927 01:10:52.449 --> 01:10:54.909 it's the opposite

of rose colored glasses. 928 01:10:55.670 --> 01:10:58.229 All of a sudden people begin looking back on. 929 01:10:58.210 --> 01:11:04.680 Their past and they view situations with such malicious intent 930 01:11:04.699 --> 01:11:08.140 and even in the letter that my sister wrote to me, 931 01:11:08.300 --> 01:11:13.810 she specifically brought up three incidents, you know, conversations that 932 01:11:13.850 --> 01:11:20.029 we had had and the cruelty and resentment that she 933 01:11:20.090 --> 01:11:25.310 connected to these conversations, which was never my intent. That's 934 01:11:25.350 --> 01:11:27.890 not at all what I felt. And they did the 935 01:11:27.930 --> 01:11:32.300 same thing with all other relationships. It's, you know, you 936 01:11:32.359 --> 01:11:34.720 and I fought over a little toy when we were 937 01:11:34.760 --> 01:11:37.020 six years old. Well, it was because you resented me 938 01:11:37.039 --> 01:11:38.960 and you hated me and you were always jealous of 939 01:11:39.039 --> 01:11:43.939 me and have followed through to adulthood and everything was 940 01:11:44.000 --> 01:11:46.779 a lie. And like, what are you talking about? This, 941 01:11:47.020 --> 01:11:47.869 this is crazy. 942 01:11:48.829 --> 01:11:51.890 And what was weird too, is whenever my sister and I. 943 01:11:53.930 --> 01:11:59.399 Had any kind of issue or hurt feelings or, you know, 944 01:11:59.439 --> 01:12:03.000 we always would just come to one another. And part 945 01:12:03.039 --> 01:12:10.279 of that was we grew up in a home where 946 01:12:10.380 --> 01:12:14.949 our parents are not the best communicators. They're very reactive. 947 01:12:15.810 --> 01:12:19.229 They communicate by yelling. That's just what they do. And 948 01:12:19.369 --> 01:12:23.039 it works for them. My sister and I never had 949 01:12:23.079 --> 01:12:26.300 those kind of relationships or not really, not so much 950 01:12:26.359 --> 01:12:30.289 in adulthood. We would, hey, when you said that, did 951 01:12:30.329 --> 01:12:32.569 you mean this? Because, you know, that really kind of, 952 01:12:33.090 --> 01:12:35.550 you know, it bothered me. And let's discuss that. And 953 01:12:35.810 --> 01:12:42.390 we chose to make different choices in our communication so 954 01:12:42.409 --> 01:12:47.720 that we didn't repeat patterns. And when my sister wrote 955 01:12:47.760 --> 01:12:51.939 that letter to me, the fact that I was not 956 01:12:52.100 --> 01:12:57.579 permitted to respond. I was not allowed to say, Hey, listen, 957 01:12:57.600 --> 01:12:59.920 I hear what you're saying and I see how you 958 01:12:59.960 --> 01:13:02.079 could have taken it that way, but actually what was 959 01:13:02.140 --> 01:13:06.289 going on was this. And that's why that happened. But 960 01:13:06.350 --> 01:13:10.350 that's how Liana teaches them to deal with things is 961 01:13:10.409 --> 01:13:14.409 to not allow people to respond, to take control, not 962 01:13:14.850 --> 01:13:18.729

let people manipulate you when in truth, she's manipulating them constantly. 963 01:13:19.399 --> 01:13:21.960 To not be able to just set the record straight 964 01:13:22.100 --> 01:13:24.779 has been really frustrating. It's like if we had just 965 01:13:24.819 --> 01:13:28.149 been able to talk about this, I don't think it 966 01:13:28.189 --> 01:13:35.069 would have had the outcome. But that was intentional. That 967 01:13:35.090 --> 01:13:40.619 was very intentional. That was very controlled. Don't let them respond. 968 01:13:41.199 --> 01:13:43.439 Because then you'll see the absurdity in the claims. 969 01:13:48.649 --> 01:13:49.710 When you. 970 01:13:51.149 --> 01:13:55.680 Think about your sister now, what are your immediate thoughts 971 01:13:55.729 --> 01:13:56.420 and feelings? 972 01:13:58.479 --> 01:14:07.869 Hmm. So I go through, um, a number of emotions. One, I, 973 01:14:11.199 --> 01:14:16.289 I'm concerned about her, uh, You know, it looks like 974 01:14:16.369 --> 01:14:19.819 she's in an apartment. I know she's living in a 975 01:14:20.159 --> 01:14:25.579 very expensive place. I know that she was couch surfing 976 01:14:25.659 --> 01:14:29.119 for a little bit. You know, I'm like, what is 977 01:14:29.159 --> 01:14:33.199 she doing? Is she good? Is she good financially? Is she? 978 01:14:33.229 --> 01:14:37.369 I don't believe that she can truly be good mentally 979 01:14:38.390 --> 01:14:41.250 because the way that she has gone about this provides 980 01:14:41.329 --> 01:14:47.359 no closure. Deep down, I think that she has doubts 981 01:14:48.239 --> 01:14:51.079 in her accusations. She would have to. They just don't 982 01:14:51.119 --> 01:14:56.199 make sense. You know, just because you yell and scream 983 01:14:56.260 --> 01:14:59.119 a lie long enough doesn't make it true. And I 984 01:14:59.159 --> 01:15:03.510 think that's a lot of what she's been doing. I'm 985 01:15:03.670 --> 01:15:14.460 saddened because, you know, she's going to be 37. and 986 01:15:14.920 --> 01:15:18.619 why is she going to be, let's see, I'm 46. 987 01:15:18.619 --> 01:15:27.390 She's 30. She's 37. Um, her, any, what kind of 988 01:15:27.430 --> 01:15:29.770 man is going to date a woman that's in this mess? 989 01:15:30.810 --> 01:15:35.069 What kind of man is Leanne going to approve of? 990 01:15:37.329 --> 01:15:43.199 So are any hopes and potential of her settling down, 991 01:15:43.680 --> 01:15:48.010 having a family, knowing that joy, is that ever going 992 01:15:48.029 --> 01:15:52.229 to happen? Or is she just going to be the 993 01:15:52.289 --> 01:15:56.930 old crone? You know, I don't know. I feel like 994 01:15:56.970 --> 01:15:59.670 she's missing out on a lot. But, you know, no person, 995 01:15:59.729 --> 01:16:01.569 if you don't experience it, you don't really know what 996 01:16:01.600 --> 01:16:04.539 you're missing out on. And I think that she could 997 01:16:04.619 --> 01:16:10.399 easily reason it away. I would love to sit down 998 01:16:10.460 --> 01:16:13.489 and talk with her. You know, she goes through my 999 01:16:13.560 --> 01:16:18.840 head constantly. Like right after they moved, a vegan restaurant 1000 01:16:18.960 --> 01:16:21.520 opened up and she'd already told me she was vegan. 1001 01:16:21.739 --> 01:16:24.520 And I was like, oh, I'd love to take her there. 1002 01:16:24.920 --> 01:16:27.979 The owner's wonderful. They'll get along like peanut butter and jelly. 1003 01:16:28.800 --> 01:16:32.689 You know, I'll see a show. I'll see, you know, any, oh, 1004 01:16:32.710 --> 01:16:36.430 that makes me think, oh, I want to tell Lisa. Oh, 1005 01:16:36.489 --> 01:16:40.050 that's right. I can't. You know, our brother just passed 1006 01:16:40.109 --> 01:16:47.079 away the day after Christmas. Does she know? Does she 1007 01:16:47.119 --> 01:16:56.899 have any idea? I don't know. You know, and my 1008 01:16:56.979 --> 01:16:59.949 sister and I both are very much into like, you know, 1009 01:17:00.010 --> 01:17:03.829 making more natural, holistic choices. Even before, you know, she 1010 01:17:03.869 --> 01:17:06.729 was with Leanna, these were things. And one of the 1011 01:17:06.770 --> 01:17:10.729 big things I decided to do in the beginning of 1012 01:17:10.729 --> 01:17:13.220 2021 when I last saw her, I was like, I'm 1013 01:17:13.239 --> 01:17:15.409 going to let my hair grow out. I'm not going 1014 01:17:15.430 --> 01:17:19.399 to dye my hair anymore. So my hair is a timeline. 1015 01:17:21.899 --> 01:17:24.199 As long as my gray... Is this how long I 1016 01:17:24.239 --> 01:17:31.149 haven't seen her? And at some point, it will all 1017 01:17:31.189 --> 01:17:33.770 be there. And maybe she won't be back then either. 1018 01:17:33.789 --> 01:17:43.210 I don't know. She's missing out. She... And it's bizarre, too. Like, 1019 01:17:43.310 --> 01:17:50.880 my daughter reached out to her. And, you know, when 1020 01:17:50.920 --> 01:17:53.180 my daughter reached out to her, she was probably like 1021 01:17:53.180 --> 01:17:57.319 16 or 17. And she was like, hey, Aunt Lisa, 1022 01:17:57.380 --> 01:17:59.579 how are you doing? How are you guys? You know, 1023 01:17:59.600 --> 01:18:04.119 at the time, she and Joe were still together. And 1024 01:18:04.659 --> 01:18:10.119 her response was, you know, oh, we're doing so wonderful. And, 1025 01:18:10.319 --> 01:18:14.600 you know, I'm so sorry, but because of your mother 1026 01:18:14.760 --> 01:18:18.460 and I, and, you know, some things that I'm going through, 1027 01:18:18.680 --> 01:18:21.819 decided like we really can't have a relationship and therefore 1028 01:18:21.880 --> 01:18:25.020 you and I aren't. And my daughter responded, like she 1029 01:18:25.060 --> 01:18:29.970 was hysterically crying and responded to Lisa and was like, like, 1030 01:18:30.510 --> 01:18:34.119 like why? You know, like, you know, that I'm really 1031 01:18:34.189 --> 01:18:38.069 upset about that. And my sister says,

You can feel 1032 01:18:38.310 --> 01:18:44.939 all the feelings. You can feel them deeply. And, you know, 1033 01:18:45.000 --> 01:18:47.989 Joe told me later that when Lisa was responding to 1034 01:18:48.050 --> 01:18:51.590 my daughter that she was hysterically confused. crying. Like, why 1035 01:18:51.670 --> 01:18:53.409 are you doing this? If you don't want to have 1036 01:18:53.470 --> 01:18:58.130 a relationship with me, fine, don't. But why are you 1037 01:19:00.430 --> 01:19:04.989 your 17-year-old niece? Why? Why? What does that have to 1038 01:19:05.029 --> 01:19:10.970 do with anything? Like, Are you not reflecting on those choices? 1039 01:19:12.810 --> 01:19:15.439 What impact is this child going to have on you? 1040 01:19:15.449 --> 01:19:23.960 It's so like even all of our high school friends, 1041 01:19:24.800 --> 01:19:28.289 the amount of people I've spoken to that are just like, 1042 01:19:29.289 --> 01:19:32.789 we know the things that she's saying are not true. 1043 01:19:33.380 --> 01:19:36.380 Because we were at that house. They were at that 1044 01:19:36.439 --> 01:19:38.800 house more than I was because I was an adult. 1045 01:19:38.880 --> 01:19:42.640 I had moved out. I was gone. But my sister 1046 01:19:43.840 --> 01:19:47.050 was the youngest. And by then, my parents were kind 1047 01:19:47.060 --> 01:19:50.449 of like very chill, very laid back. They were super 1048 01:19:50.489 --> 01:19:52.850 strict with me. But by the time it got to Lisa, 1049 01:19:52.890 --> 01:19:55.310 it was like, yeah, invite your friends over. Do what 1050 01:19:55.350 --> 01:19:59.500 you want. Have a party and whatever. And so... It 1051 01:19:59.539 --> 01:20:01.619 was the cool house. It was the fun house. It 1052 01:20:01.640 --> 01:20:04.159 was the laid back parents with the hot tub and 1053 01:20:04.180 --> 01:20:08.670 the pool and the pool house. And, you know, and 1054 01:20:08.689 --> 01:20:10.750 they were like, we were in that house all the time. 1055 01:20:10.770 --> 01:20:18.479 And never, never. But she had to cut off all 1056 01:20:18.520 --> 01:20:23.819 those relationships because she could not expose herself to the challenge. 1057 01:20:25.479 --> 01:20:29.729 She couldn't. deal with people going, I don't think that's true. 1058 01:20:30.529 --> 01:20:34.609 What are you talking about? So rather than deal with it, 1059 01:20:35.949 --> 01:20:41.760 she was just told, don't expose yourself to that negative energy. 1060 01:20:41.880 --> 01:20:46.520 Negative energy is called the truth. That's not negative energy. 1061 01:20:46.600 --> 01:20:51.159 It's not dark. It's truth. It's light. And God forbid 1062 01:20:51.279 --> 01:20:53.979 that be shed on the nonsense that you're saying and 1063 01:20:54.010 --> 01:21:01.149 the lies that you are being encouraged to Repeat. Because 1064 01:21:01.210 --> 01:21:06.109 then you're not the damaged person that's on a healing journey. 1065 01:21:06.329 --> 01:21:18.810 Then you're just a liar and you're just deceived. She's 1066 01:21:18.869 --> 01:21:22.090 in a delusion. She's deceived. And that I feel a 1067 01:21:22.149 --> 01:21:26.729 lot of compassion for. That I feel bad for. That's scary. 1068 01:21:27.369 --> 01:21:31.670 Because where is that spilling over into other parts of 1069 01:21:31.710 --> 01:21:37.020 her life? Is she creating new relationships? Is she always 1070 01:21:37.109 --> 01:21:41.279 looking at people with suspicion? Does she always have to 1071 01:21:41.319 --> 01:21:48.340 get approval from her teacher? I don't know. I don't 1072 01:21:48.359 --> 01:21:49.199 know what that looks like. 1073 01:21:49.229 --> 01:21:54.510 How pleased I was to listen to this recording and 1074 01:21:54.569 --> 01:21:58.949 hear you talk. what are some things that you would 1075 01:21:58.970 --> 01:22:00.170 like to say to her? 1076 01:22:01.149 --> 01:22:12.069 Hmm. That I love her. That the door is always open. Always. 1077 01:22:14.439 --> 01:22:21.720 And at her pace. If she needs, if she had questions, conversations, 1078 01:22:21.800 --> 01:22:24.119 if she just wanted to show up and not have them, 1079 01:22:24.159 --> 01:22:28.220 that's fine too. The door is open. If she wanted 1080 01:22:28.260 --> 01:22:31.140 a plane ticket, she'd get it. If she needed a 1081 01:22:31.199 --> 01:22:41.630 place to stay, she'd get it. If there was a 1082 01:22:43.689 --> 01:22:51.819 crack in the fortress that has been built, and if 1083 01:22:51.880 --> 01:22:56.130 that began to crumble, I think one of the first 1084 01:22:56.229 --> 01:23:00.869 things that she would be fearful of is, after all 1085 01:23:00.930 --> 01:23:04.890 I've said and done, if it's really not true, who's 1086 01:23:04.949 --> 01:23:07.810 going to take me back? Who's going to accept me? 1087 01:23:07.949 --> 01:23:10.329 Do I even have a place to go? And the 1088 01:23:10.489 --> 01:23:16.869 answer is a resounding yes. Because it's been years that 1089 01:23:16.930 --> 01:23:20.310 we have done our best to view it from the 1090 01:23:20.380 --> 01:23:27.020 perspective of she's not Yes, she has accused. Yes, she 1091 01:23:27.060 --> 01:23:31.739 has lied. But primarily, those things have occurred because she 1092 01:23:31.840 --> 01:23:35.739 has been victimized. I don't think that she would have 1093 01:23:35.760 --> 01:23:40.000 said or done any of this unless she truly believed it. So, 1094 01:23:41.479 --> 01:23:46.890 the door's open. Always. And like I said, at her pace, 1095 01:23:47.210 --> 01:23:52.100 I know that... It would be scary if you've absolutely 1096 01:23:52.140 --> 01:23:55.199 convinced yourself that a group of people have abused you 1097 01:23:55.300 --> 01:24:02.329 and pursued you and done atrocious things to you. It's 1098 01:24:02.430 --> 01:24:06.189 not relationships you could just hop right back into. And 1099 01:24:06.210 --> 01:24:13.300 that's OK. But any help to include, you know, even 1100

01:24:13.350 --> 01:24:19.170 sitting down with someone professionally and and keeping a distance 1101 01:24:19.229 --> 01:24:23.689 during that time until she could hash out what exactly 1102 01:24:24.010 --> 01:24:30.239 has gone on in the past four years. Yeah, and 1103 01:24:30.279 --> 01:24:30.899 that I miss her. 1104 01:24:37.560 --> 01:24:41.109 As far as you're aware, have there been any other 1105 01:24:41.289 --> 01:24:45.430 parents or siblings or loved ones that have been accused 1106 01:24:45.449 --> 01:24:54.430 of by somebody in Liana Shanti's group of similar abuse. 1107 01:24:56.409 --> 01:25:03.779 Oh, yeah. And this is humorous. So at one point, 1108 01:25:04.859 --> 01:25:09.359 and I don't remember who created it, but they created 1109 01:25:09.420 --> 01:25:14.109 an Instagram page that was basically like, you know, in 1110 01:25:14.189 --> 01:25:17.149 support of Liana or defending Liana. And I'm just going 1111 01:25:17.229 --> 01:25:20.930 to write my statement of how she has helped me. 1112 01:25:21.689 --> 01:25:25.220 And I went through every one of those and then 1113 01:25:25.979 --> 01:25:29.920 went to those people's private pages, if they were public. 1114 01:25:31.659 --> 01:25:33.899 And I have an entire document where I wrote down 1115 01:25:33.979 --> 01:25:42.359 each person's name and then I copy and pasted Exactly 1116 01:25:42.420 --> 01:25:46.500 the accusations. And there's like a dozen of them that 1117 01:25:46.560 --> 01:25:50.739 are saying essentially the same thing, but with slight modifications. 1118 01:25:51.539 --> 01:25:54.100 You know, it was a father. It was a stepfather. 1119 01:25:54.119 --> 01:26:02.359 The stories are so remarkably similar. It's all coming from 1120 01:26:02.399 --> 01:26:07.050 the same playbook. It's crazy. I'll send it to you. 1121 01:26:09.930 --> 01:26:13.600 And I highlighted it like, oh, look, it's the same story. Oh, 1122 01:26:13.659 --> 01:26:16.779 it's the same story. And then I even put on Instagram, like, 1123 01:26:16.819 --> 01:26:18.699 I want to thank the person who put this page 1124 01:26:18.760 --> 01:26:21.619 together because, wow, like for me to have gone out 1125 01:26:21.659 --> 01:26:24.899 of my way to find all these people and to 1126 01:26:24.960 --> 01:26:28.699 put them all in one place, it would have taken 1127 01:26:28.739 --> 01:26:30.840 me forever. So thank you so much for doing that 1128 01:26:30.899 --> 01:26:34.420 for me. You just made it so incredibly convenient. 1129 01:26:35.569 --> 01:26:38.659 To begin rounding up my conversation with Kristen, I asked 1130 01:26:38.720 --> 01:26:41.260 her that if she had to describe Liana Shanti to 1131 01:26:41.300 --> 01:26:43.720 somebody who had never heard of her before, from the 1132 01:26:43.739 --> 01:26:47.739 perspective of one of her followers, how might she describe her? 1133 01:26:49.460 --> 01:26:55.720 Oh, goodness. Well, okay. So she's obviously, you know, she's 1134 01:26:55.760 --> 01:27:02.020 a lawyer, a Wall Street, super successful lawyer, real estate mogul, 1135 01:27:03.600 --> 01:27:11.319 timeshare person. Goddess. Sexual prowess. Beautiful. Loved and adored by 1136 01:27:11.359 --> 01:27:21.550 her children and husbands. I don't know. Nymph-like Barbie. Highly enlightened. Psychic. 1137 01:27:24.930 --> 01:27:37.800 Lumerian sisterhood. Oh, goodness. Artist. Writer. Genius. unconditionally loved and 1138 01:27:37.840 --> 01:27:43.260 adored by everyone and just knows all the ins and 1139 01:27:43.359 --> 01:27:49.899 outs of nutrition and spirituality and uh jesus and every 1140 01:27:50.000 --> 01:27:56.649 philosophy and ancient everything everything the stars the moon the 1141 01:27:56.710 --> 01:27:59.270 sun like she knows it all she knows it all 1142 01:27:59.949 --> 01:28:09.319 she is uh She is Buddha and Christ and Allah 1143 01:28:09.420 --> 01:28:13.420 and all of them just, just reincarnate in all of them, 1144 01:28:13.560 --> 01:28:17.640 perfection and stars and sparkles and pink. 1145 01:28:20.600 --> 01:28:23.770 And then if you had to tell somebody who is 1146 01:28:23.829 --> 01:28:27.850 Leanne Wilson, how would you summarize that in 30 to 1147 01:28:27.850 --> 01:28:28.310 60 seconds? 1148 01:28:34.109 --> 01:28:42.659 Oh, liar. Um, smart. Good memory. Uh, Desperately trying to 1149 01:28:42.880 --> 01:28:52.850 live an online avatar life. Because there are obviously things 1150 01:28:52.930 --> 01:28:55.729 about her own life that she's not happy with. And 1151 01:28:55.770 --> 01:29:05.250 you can find it in her lies. Narcissistic. Everything she 1152 01:29:05.310 --> 01:29:14.449 accuses people of, she's guilty of. Oh, yeah. Just a 1153 01:29:14.529 --> 01:29:19.020 hypocrite and a liar. Nothing's real. Her looks aren't real. 1154 01:29:19.140 --> 01:29:31.399 Her beliefs aren't real. Her life... Wow. Yeah. Yeah. Just money-hungry... 1155 01:29:34.060 --> 01:29:35.859 I don't even know if it's the money, though. I 1156 01:29:35.880 --> 01:29:39.500 think she genuinely likes the power and the ability to 1157 01:29:39.560 --> 01:29:46.260 control and manipulate and the adoration. She loves that. She 1158 01:29:46.300 --> 01:29:53.449 feeds off of that. Mm-hmm. There were. 1159 01:29:55.449 --> 01:30:01.609 People listening to this episode before we wrap up who 1160 01:30:01.630 --> 01:30:05.579 have also said lost a loved one to this particular 1161 01:30:05.600 --> 01:30:14.550 online group, what would be your words of advice to them? 1162 01:30:14.569 --> 01:30:20.630 Well, I think some of the best advice that I 1163 01:30:20.670 --> 01:30:25.029 received was remember that they are victims. 1164 01:30:27.590 --> 01:30:31.880 That has been helpful because you want to retaliate. 1165 01:30:31.979 --> 01:30:38.500 You want to be angry. And that's been helpful. And 1166 01:30:38.520 --> 01:30:40.960 just pray. I, you know, I don't know what other 1167 01:30:40.979 -->

01:30:49.739 people's beliefs are, but things have to come to light. Yeah. 1168 01:30:50.659 --> 01:30:54.300 I don't know. It's hard. I, we have said time 1169 01:30:54.340 --> 01:30:58.550 and time again, how incredibly thankful we are that Joe 1170 01:30:58.590 --> 01:31:03.409 and Lisa did not have children. Because I would hate 1171 01:31:03.550 --> 01:31:07.909 to see them, you know, if children were dragged into this. 1172 01:31:10.140 --> 01:31:13.810 Which they have been in other situations. 1173 01:31:15.500 --> 01:31:23.279 Yeah. I feel for those families. Just so sad, you know. 1174 01:31:23.300 --> 01:31:26.560 I think the biggest thing with Lisa is that no 1175 01:31:26.640 --> 01:31:34.149 one has pursued her to harm her. And that so 1176 01:31:34.229 --> 01:31:38.819 much of these struggles she's been going through have been 1177 01:31:39.819 --> 01:31:45.779 manipulated and somewhat self-inflicted. And moving forward, I would like 1178 01:31:45.819 --> 01:31:49.199 for her to just feel free, like pursue, be joyful, 1179 01:31:49.319 --> 01:31:52.850 be happy. Because I think ultimately if she is pursuing 1180 01:31:52.859 --> 01:31:56.489 and she does feel free and she doesn't feel under threat, 1181 01:31:57.649 --> 01:32:01.390 that she is more likely to come to the truth 1182 01:32:01.409 --> 01:32:04.010 and You know, it's very easy if someone's in a 1183 01:32:04.050 --> 01:32:08.869 fearful state to manipulate them. So nobody's pursuing her. We 1184 01:32:08.890 --> 01:32:11.729 just want the best for her. And, you know, yeah, 1185 01:32:11.899 --> 01:32:16.420 we're probably still going to say Leon Ashanti is not 1186 01:32:16.479 --> 01:32:20.340 someone that anyone should be following or listening to because 1187 01:32:20.600 --> 01:32:25.289 we've seen the destructive patterns. But it's not a campaign. 1188 01:32:25.310 --> 01:32:27.529 It's just the truth. If you want to speak your truth, 1189 01:32:28.029 --> 01:32:35.859 we're going to speak ours. And... You know, to the 1190 01:32:35.960 --> 01:32:40.069 families also that are struggling, live your life. I know 1191 01:32:40.109 --> 01:32:42.449 it's hard to say, but, you know, for the most part, 1192 01:32:43.590 --> 01:32:50.989 everyone involved, Joe, myself, my family, my parents, we've done 1193 01:32:51.050 --> 01:32:53.960 our best to just move on. And, you know, time 1194 01:32:54.000 --> 01:32:58.560 will take care of itself. But you've got to move 1195 01:32:58.659 --> 01:33:00.689 on with your own life. You can't obsess about it. 1196 01:33:01.890 --> 01:33:05.189 Get off of the social media. Stop stalking them. Stop 1197 01:33:05.210 --> 01:33:08.090 looking at like, let it go. Let it go. Because 1198 01:33:08.170 --> 01:33:11.529 at this point, it's just in God's hands anyway. And 1199 01:33:12.270 --> 01:33:16.170 things are happening, though, at a slow pace with bringing 1200 01:33:16.229 --> 01:33:21.359 justice to Liana. But, you know, all things will come 1201 01:33:21.420 --> 01:33:28.140 to light at some point. One of the. It's so 1202 01:33:28.199 --> 01:33:32.279 encouraging is looking at Joe. because he's come out of 1203 01:33:32.399 --> 01:33:34.960 it and he, and it took some time, but he's 1204 01:33:34.979 --> 01:33:42.050 healed physically, financially, mentally, spiritually, familially, like his family, they're, 1205 01:33:42.090 --> 01:33:47.529 they're great. Like he's in a wonderful place. And you know, 1206 01:33:47.550 --> 01:33:50.569 that to the point that you said as well, that like, 1207 01:33:50.590 --> 01:33:54.930 you don't have that closure. Like if someone dies, that's that, 1208 01:33:55.029 --> 01:33:57.170 but to know that they are somewhat close, you know, 1209 01:33:57.189 --> 01:34:00.050 that's something he and I have, talked about as well. 1210 01:34:00.069 --> 01:34:03.649 It's just to sit down and talk with her. You know? 1211 01:34:04.890 --> 01:34:10.260 And to know that she's there, but you can't. It's weird. 1212 01:34:10.720 --> 01:34:13.960 It's really strange. But I am hopeful. 1213 01:34:14.520 --> 01:34:14.840 One day. 1214 01:34:14.859 --> 01:34:21.510 And I really do hope for her sake. I really do. 1215 01:34:22.890 --> 01:34:24.909 Because I would hate to see how her life is 1216 01:34:24.930 --> 01:34:27.909 going to look if she stays in this group. 1217 01:34:30.050 --> 01:34:34.090 Kristen's story is just one of many that I covered 1218 01:34:34.390 --> 01:34:39.390 throughout the Instascammer 11-part podcast series, which is available now 1219 01:34:39.869 --> 01:34:44.350 on the Instascammer podcast feed. It is available on all 1220 01:34:44.449 --> 01:34:49.270 major podcast players and on YouTube. If you haven't listened yet, 1221 01:34:49.449 --> 01:34:51.989 please do go and take a listen. We are just 1222 01:34:52.529 --> 01:34:55.890 preparing now for season two. Thank you so much to 1223 01:34:55.930 --> 01:34:59.489 Kristen for coming forward, having this lengthy chat with me, 1224 01:34:59.939 --> 01:35:02.600 remaining in touch with me and for allowing me to 1225 01:35:03.100 --> 01:35:07.659 release our full interview on the podcast feed. I really 1226 01:35:07.760 --> 01:35:10.819 appreciate your time and your bravery with speaking out about 1227 01:35:10.840 --> 01:35:14.289 your experiences and your hopes for Lisa to return home. 1228 01:35:15.989 --> 01:35:18.869 If anybody else would like to speak with me about 1229 01:35:18.930 --> 01:35:22.789 their experiences in the Liana Shanti community or if you 1230 01:35:22.829 --> 01:35:26.260 have been victimized by the Liana Shanti community, please do 1231 01:35:26.319 --> 01:35:30.560 reach out. You can find me at cultvaultpodcast at gmail.com. 1232 01:35:31.380 --> 01:35:34.520 And if you are impacted by the themes in this episode, 1233 01:35:34.939 --> 01:35:40.890 you can find a list of resources at cultvaultpodcast.com. I'm 1234 01:35:40.909 --> 01:35:45.369 your host, Casey, and this has been a bonus episode 1235 01:35:46.060 --> 01:35:47.199 of the Insta Scammer.