Full Transcript for How to Actually Protect Company Culture: Nitin Sharma

--> 00:03:14.200 So I've got a nice garden behind me and everyone's like, oh, it's really nice. 79 00:03:14.220 --> 00:03:14.941 It looks really pretty. 80 00:03:14.961 --> 00:03:15.541 I'm like, yeah. 81 00:03:15.641 --> 00:03:16.361 Was that an AI garden? 82 00:03:16.542 --> 00:03:17.222 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 83 00:03:17.242 --> 00:03:18.002 That's blood, sweat and tears. 84 00:03:18.022 --> 00:03:19.343 I actually had to get up and prove it. 85 00:03:19.363 --> 00:03:22.144 So I had an American client and they were like, there's no way that's your garden. 86 00:03:22.284 --> 00:03:22.884 I was like, it is. 87 00:03:22.984 --> 00:03:23.225 Watch. 88 00:03:23.525 --> 00:03:27.487 And I had to get up and go out and sort of like do jumping jacks in the background to be like, it's me. 89 00:03:27.507 --> 00:03:27.867 I'm telling you. 90 00:03:27.907 --> 00:03:28.627 And then come back. 91 00:03:35.270 --> 00:03:35.870 Have you watched any? 92 00:03:36.210 --> 00:03:36.510 I have. 93 00:03:36.630 --> 00:03:42.132 I'll be honest, I kind of X-2'd the Cyborg episode. 94 00:03:42.332 --> 00:03:45.473 I know Cy, so I was like, all right, go on then. 95 00:03:45.933 --> 00:03:47.153 So Cy scored quite well. 96 00:03:47.513 --> 00:03:48.253 He did, yeah. 97 00:03:48.274 --> 00:03:48.914 Was Cy 60? 98 00:03:48.934 --> 00:03:51.314 He's a very competitive, 56 I think it was. 99 00:03:51.514 --> 00:03:51.994 56. 100 00:03:52.035 --> 00:03:56.296 Yeah, at the time he was top leaderboard and you've had a couple of people since then. 101 00:03:56.316 --> 00:04:01.097 So Cy was top and Cy was like the best that day, wasn't he? 102 00:04:01.690 --> 00:04:03.591 Yeah, yeah, he was my personal favourite. 103 00:04:03.911 --> 00:04:05.792 He's such a normal favourite as well. 104 00:04:05.812 --> 00:04:07.152 I don't think that's the problem. 105 00:04:07.593 --> 00:04:10.714 And then Oli Whiting took it off, Si? 106 00:04:11.354 --> 00:04:12.015 Or was Oli below Si? 107 00:04:12.095 --> 00:04:13.535 I think Si was one point above Oli. 108 00:04:13.775 --> 00:04:14.556 Si was one point above Oli. 109 00:04:14.996 --> 00:04:15.516 Natalie? 110 00:04:16.837 --> 00:04:18.177 Natalie took Oli off the top spot? 111 00:04:18.197 --> 00:04:18.678 Natalie took it. 112 00:04:19.638 --> 00:04:21.239 Cool, okay, so Natalie took Oli off. 113 00:04:21.299 --> 00:04:22.959 Do we need to close that blind, or are we okay with that? 114 00:04:23.620 --> 00:04:26.461 I'm going to just close it halfway, I think, just a little less. 115 00:04:28.522 --> 00:04:29.523 Cool. 116 00:04:29.743 --> 00:04:30.624 So, look, you know the format. 117 00:04:30.964 --> 00:04:31.945 So, yeah, yeah. 118 00:04:32.185 --> 00:04:34.747 Fortunately for me, I'm not a very competitive person. 119 00:04:34.867 --> 00:04:35.247 Doesn't matter. 120 00:04:35.267 --> 00:04:36.268 I just like taking part in things. 121 00:04:36.388 --> 00:04:37.329 Yeah. 122 00:04:37.349 --> 00:04:37.930 Very good. 123 00:04:37.970 --> 00:04:38.370 Very good. 124 00:04:38.890 --> 00:04:42.233 So, I will... We'll just get straight into it. 125 00:04:42.293 --> 00:04:42.713 Yeah, yeah, cool. 126 00:04:42.733 --> 00:04:43.614 Yeah, go straight into it. 127 00:04:43.674 --> 00:04:45.736 So, Nitin, thank you. 128 00:04:46.376 --> 00:04:46.717 Thank you. 129 00:04:46.797 --> 00:04:47.918 I appreciate you having me. 130 00:04:47.938 --> 00:04:49.939 We, I mean, we have talked. 131 00:04:49.999 --> 00:04:54.243 We've been on Zoom calls and then at team conference. 132 00:04:54.263 --> 00:04:54.683 Yeah, yeah. 133 00:04:54.903 --> 00:04:57.023 We actually got to say hello personally, which was cool. 134 00:04:57.103 --> 00:04:58.444 You were very, very in demand, mate. 135 00:04:58.464 --> 00:05:00.344 I appreciate you giving me 10 minutes. 136 00:05:00.744 --> 00:05:01.824 No, no, no. 137 00:05:02.144 --> 00:05:03.605 I wanted to come and hang out with you. 138 00:05:03.905 --> 00:05:04.705 I was genuine. 139 00:05:04.725 --> 00:05:09.306 I was really apprehensive because I thought, he's busy with Simon. 140 00:05:09.326 --> 00:05:09.886 I know what Simon is. 141 00:05:09.906 --> 00:05:10.966 Simon's very old school, right? 142 00:05:11.146 --> 00:05:11.326 Yeah. 143 00:05:11.406 --> 00:05:17.227 And he's like, yeah, they're having their little post-talk, talk-through or whatever, and you were sat with somebody else that I didn't know and didn't meet. 144 00:05:17.807 --> 00:05:20.028 And I thought, we are about to wrap up there. 145 00:05:20.048 --> 00:05:21.608 We literally want to put this equipment away. 146 00:05:21.628 --> 00:05:22.228 I could see. 147 00:05:22.448 --> 00:05:25.913 I felt so horrible going like, do you want to do it now? 148 00:05:26.293 --> 00:05:27.955 No, no, no. 149 00:05:28.216 --> 00:05:33.843 I really wanted to meet you and have a chat with you because your show is huge in the recruitment industry. 150 00:05:34.143 --> 00:05:39.370 And having spent 12 plus years in the recruitment industry, I was like, I want to go and have a chat with you. 151 00:05:39.590 --> 00:05:41.951 But then I could see you guys wanting to pack up. 152 00:05:42.011 --> 00:05:46.572 And I'd also just seen how much content you'd done that day. 153 00:05:46.592 --> 00:05:48.793 So you must have been shattered. 154 00:05:49.533 --> 00:05:50.834 It was a long day. 155 00:05:50.894 --> 00:05:52.494 But I loved the 10 minutes we got together. 156 00:05:53.374 --> 00:05:54.815 And we covered... 157 00:05:55.675 --> 00:05:58.557 I just felt that we were having a chat about a topic that we both love. 158 00:05:58.797 --> 00:05:58.957 Yeah. 159 00:05:59.157 --> 00:06:02.379 Like it just felt like talking about leadership and business and decision making. 160 00:06:02.999 --> 00:06:04.200 There was, there was a good vibe. 161 00:06:04.240 --> 00:06:05.781 So I was like, great, let's get you on. 162 00:06:05.801 --> 00:06:08.563 Like, would you come on and do the decision sprint? 163

00:06:09.023 --> 00:06:10.664 So we'll do that. 164 00:06:10.764 --> 00:06:19.449 But first of all, I would love for you to tell everyone like who you are, how you help people. 165 00:06:19.909 --> 00:06:21.090 And then, and then we'll get into it. 166 00:06:21.330 --> 00:06:21.990 I appreciate that. 167 00:06:23.191 --> 00:06:23.791 Who am I? 168 00:06:24.031 --> 00:06:30.853 I'm Nitin, I'm a 40 year old dad of two amazing little girls, and that's who I am. 169 00:06:30.893 --> 00:06:32.333 That for me is like priority, right? 170 00:06:32.533 --> 00:06:37.315 A lot of people kind of do the sort of the parent thing and the working parent thing. 171 00:06:37.355 --> 00:06:45.537 For me it's like that is literally my entire personality is the businesses that I've got, the things I'm involved in, everything rotates around them. 172 00:06:45.777 --> 00:06:47.278 And we have an agreement. 173 00:06:48.888 --> 00:06:49.708 especially my little one. 174 00:06:49.848 --> 00:06:51.709 Daddy, when we're at school, you can be at work. 175 00:06:52.089 --> 00:06:53.689 When we're not at school, you have to be back at home. 176 00:06:53.769 --> 00:06:54.449 And I'm like, all right, cool. 177 00:06:54.649 --> 00:06:58.770 It's getting a bit more difficult now with kind of how things have blown up, but they're very understanding. 178 00:06:59.591 --> 00:07:03.732 And I'll take every half-term off and every school holiday off. 179 00:07:03.752 --> 00:07:07.072 So six weeks of the summer, I'll be off with them doing the dad thing. 180 00:07:07.492 --> 00:07:15.994 But outside of being the dad, I am very fortunate that I run the recruitment industry's largest media company, is what it is now. 181 00:07:16.274 --> 00:07:18.195 But what we are is a podcast at heart. 182 00:07:19.215 --> 00:07:36.305 And what we do is release three episodes a week to help recruitment business owners or talent acquisition teams or even direct hiring businesses figure out what tech and what kind of front, back and middle office opportunities are out there for them to kind of enhance what they do. 183 00:07:36.606 --> 00:07:43.630 Purely because, and it was entirely driven by the fact that in December 2013, my recruitment business failed. 184 00:07:44.630 --> 00:07:50.574 for a whole range of reasons, but the biggest one was actually that I was running a solo race, me and my old business partner at the time. 185 00:07:51.434 --> 00:07:52.035 We didn't want to know. 186 00:07:52.295 --> 00:07:52.975 We didn't want to hear it. 187 00:07:53.696 --> 00:07:56.858 We thought we knew best, and that was our biggest downfall. 188 00:07:57.338 --> 00:08:12.707 So for me, it was a case of actually if I can do something which helps recruitment business owners or talent acquisition teams or even business owners be made aware of things that are available to them that they otherwise didn't know, then I'm doing the right thing because I absolutely didn't want to get back on the tools. 189 00:08:13.127

--> 00:08:13.407 Okay. 190 00:08:13.567 --> 00:08:14.208 Yeah. 191 00:08:14.788 --> 00:08:15.128 Okay. 192 00:08:15.849 --> 00:08:16.770 You've challenged me already. 193 00:08:17.350 --> 00:08:17.830 Go on. 194 00:08:17.850 --> 00:08:19.471 You've challenged me already. 195 00:08:19.491 --> 00:08:27.136 I am struggling with the dad business thing as well. 196 00:08:27.156 --> 00:08:31.800 So I know that, like, some holidays are here. 197 00:08:32.200 --> 00:08:32.740 Yeah. 198 00:08:33.040 --> 00:08:35.242 And when you said, like, you take the six weeks off... 199 00:08:36.477 --> 00:08:38.179 I'm like, wow, how? 200 00:08:38.399 --> 00:08:41.101 I need to get more balance there. 201 00:08:41.341 --> 00:08:41.602 I do. 202 00:08:41.822 --> 00:08:49.248 I think what it comes down to is when you run a business, and I have nothing but respect for people who work for themselves, right? 203 00:08:49.288 --> 00:08:58.937 Because most people in life have a dream, have an ambition, have an idea that's either popped into their head or they feel that they've got something there. 204 00:09:00.777 --> 00:09:08.759 But they bypass that or they shelve that for a 50K salary, 28 days holiday and sick pay and a pension. 205 00:09:08.959 --> 00:09:09.800 You know what I mean? 206 00:09:10.500 --> 00:09:26.605 And so if you're the kind of person that's gone, okay, now I will risk comfort and the ability to be able to kind of have one element of all the variables in my life guaranteed, which is a wage coming in every month to follow and pursue my own dreams. 207 00:09:27.205 --> 00:09:30.086 I think at that point you've got to then establish what's more important to me? 208 00:09:30.566 --> 00:09:32.628 Is it money or is it time? 209 00:09:33.629 --> 00:09:38.134 Because certainly for me, in the last couple of years building this, and we're still in building mode, right? 210 00:09:39.696 --> 00:09:45.281 I've earned more money working, and I've certainly earned more money in a recruitment business than what I pay myself now. 211 00:09:46.308 --> 00:09:48.350 So if I'm not getting the money, then I want the time. 212 00:09:49.050 --> 00:09:51.632 Because if I haven't got the time and I haven't got the money, what the hell am I doing? 213 00:09:52.273 --> 00:09:53.374 What a pointless thing to do. 214 00:09:53.414 --> 00:10:11.668 I'd rather, and I did, you know, six weeks before I moved, started working in recruitment, six weeks before my wedding, I painted fences and mowed lawns to make ends meet because I had been made redundant and there was a six week gap between I was getting married, then we're going on a honeymoon, and then I was gonna start my new job. 215 00:10:11.989 --> 00:10:12.669 Yeah. 216 00:10:12.929 --> 00:10:14.571 So you might as well go and do something else, right? 217 00:10:15.251 --> 00:10:18.394 So I think it's that reframing of what you qualify success. 218 00:10:18.955 --> 00:10:20.476 We put monetary value on success. 219 00:10:20.616 -->

00:10:20.917 I don't. 220 00:10:21.097 --> 00:10:22.118 I really don't anymore. 221 00:10:22.178 --> 00:10:25.341 Like, you know, stopped liking nice things a long time ago, actually. 222 00:10:26.062 --> 00:10:28.084 And it served, touch wood serves me well. 223 00:10:28.444 --> 00:10:28.624 Yeah. 224 00:10:28.985 --> 00:10:29.205 Yeah. 225 00:10:29.706 --> 00:10:31.207 It's a work on for me, for sure. 226 00:10:31.387 --> 00:10:32.128 It's a work on for me. 227 00:10:32.668 --> 00:10:33.209 I think I... 228 00:10:34.410 --> 00:10:36.492 I get a little bit addicted to work, I think, if I'm honest. 229 00:10:36.772 --> 00:10:39.414 Yeah, it's probably something that I need to work on. 230 00:10:39.974 --> 00:10:41.336 Is it the work you're addicted to? 231 00:10:42.136 --> 00:10:51.163 Or is it the dopamine that you get from the feeling of success in terms of building something that you're really good at or something that wasn't anything but now is becoming something? 232 00:10:51.183 --> 00:10:52.864 Do you know what I mean? 233 00:10:53.385 --> 00:10:53.985 Yeah, it's that. 234 00:10:54.005 --> 00:10:55.306 Yeah, it's not the work. 235 00:10:55.967 --> 00:10:58.949 The work is the vehicle, the dopamine. 236 00:10:58.969 --> 00:10:59.930 It's the sense of creation. 237 00:11:00.190 --> 00:11:03.232 It's that sense of creation that I think is very... 238 00:11:04.153 --> 00:11:05.234 How many kids have you got? 239 00:11:05.634 --> 00:11:05.875 Two. 240 00:11:06.015 --> 00:11:06.695 Two, right? 241 00:11:06.715 --> 00:11:08.597 You created them too, right? 242 00:11:08.897 --> 00:11:09.157 Yeah. 243 00:11:09.698 --> 00:11:13.161 And they're only going to be little boys for only a very short period of time. 244 00:11:13.261 --> 00:11:17.044 And we are but a, we spend but a fraction of that. 245 00:11:17.224 --> 00:11:20.787 They're in our lives for much longer than we're in theirs. 246 00:11:21.008 --> 00:11:21.188 Yeah. 247 00:11:22.007 --> 00:11:24.029 And so for me, I'd rather leave a... 248 00:11:24.049 --> 00:11:26.170 I had a very absent dad. 249 00:11:26.871 --> 00:11:30.034 So I think that drives kind of the purpose and my why. 250 00:11:30.254 --> 00:11:34.677 Because I'm sort of like, actually, no, I want my kids to stand at my funeral and be like, we have the best dad. 251 00:11:35.258 --> 00:11:40.883 Rather than me, who had to stand at my dad's funeral, kind of think like, I've got to think something nice to say about this guy. 252 00:11:40.923 --> 00:11:45.086 Like, you know, I hate to listen to things about him and I'm just like, I've got nothing for you guys. 253 00:11:45.106 --> 00:11:46.207 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 254 00:11:46.527 --> 00:11:47.268 Yeah, it's true. 255 00:11:47.468 --> 00:11:47.728 It's true. 256 00:11:47.748 --> 00:11:48.109 And I think... 257 00:11:50.258 --> 00:11:54.702 Yeah, like it's, there's a, there's, I was gonna say there's a balance. 258 00:11:54.742 --> 00:11:55.903 I hate the phrase balance. 259 00:11:55.923 --> 00:11:56.764 I think there's just a focus. 260 00:11:56.784 --> 00:11:59.146 I think you just shift focuses in between me and my wife. 261 00:12:00.104 --> 00:12:05.686 you know, we've got the summer holidays wrapped, like we're gonna both spend some quality time, et cetera. 262 00:12:06.246 --> 00:12:10.067 I think because I just love the boys and I love hanging out with them. 263 00:12:10.087 --> 00:12:15.588 They're at that magical age, like 10 and eight, where they've got a bit of personality, a bit of attitude, but they still wanna hang out. 264 00:12:15.668 --> 00:12:15.968 That's it. 265 00:12:16.148 --> 00:12:25.871 And so this summer holiday, I'm very focused on like, Sarah and I had the conversation last night, we're like, we need to get our diaries together and look at how we're gonna divide and conquer. 266 00:12:26.071 --> 00:12:26.711 And we did that. 267 00:12:27.271 --> 00:12:28.972 And actually the days that I'm off off, 268 00:12:29.912 --> 00:12:31.594 We're just going to go out into the woods. 269 00:12:31.614 --> 00:12:34.056 We've got the new forest near us, et cetera, and that's good. 270 00:12:34.756 --> 00:12:40.461 But I think the dopamine hit of also, as you said, like seeing them develop, there's that dual dopamine hit. 271 00:12:40.941 --> 00:12:42.422 So, yeah. 272 00:12:42.442 --> 00:12:45.204 There's something like... 273 00:12:45.265 --> 00:12:47.566 I've never felt anything as rewarding as... 274 00:12:48.447 --> 00:12:56.590 Being a parent of actually good kids, like genuinely good kids that other people don't find irritating or that other people actually find a pleasure to be around. 275 00:12:56.750 --> 00:12:56.990 Yeah. 276 00:12:57.110 --> 00:12:59.932 Like that, I've never had anything as rewarding as that. 277 00:13:00.092 --> 00:13:00.272 Yeah. 278 00:13:00.392 --> 00:13:02.553 And I think that sometimes feeds it as well, right? 279 00:13:02.613 --> 00:13:06.154 I think sometimes I kind of say to myself and my siblings and stuff like that, 280 00:13:06.414 --> 00:13:07.856 Maybe we were just really shitty kids. 281 00:13:07.956 --> 00:13:09.537 And that's why dad didn't want to be around as much. 282 00:13:09.617 --> 00:13:10.298 Do you know what I mean? 283 00:13:10.318 --> 00:13:11.339 Maybe it was us. 284 00:13:11.559 --> 00:13:12.400 Because I love my kids. 285 00:13:12.420 --> 00:13:13.241 I think they're hilarious. 286 00:13:13.281 --> 00:13:14.502 And I love spending time with them. 287 00:13:14.522 --> 00:13:19.487 Because I genuinely enjoy watching the weird quirkiness that they are. 288 00:13:20.208 --> 00:13:25.473 And the ability they have to feel free to express themselves in however way they choose to. 289 00:13:25.833 --> 00:13:26.914 While still remaining... 290 00:13:27.935 --> 00:13:30.116 respectable and well-mannered. 291 00:13:30.156 --> 00:13:35.979 And when you go to parents' evenings and the teachers are saying, look, if I could have 30 of this child, I would. 292

00:13:36.620 --> 00:13:38.180 Like that, it's like, oh, okay. 293 00:13:38.581 --> 00:13:42.943 And I think that's the thing that feeds me the dopamine that therefore then I don't need from the business. 294 00:13:45.599 --> 00:13:46.039 I don't know. 295 00:13:46.059 --> 00:13:48.620 Yeah, maybe, but the business is still doing really well. 296 00:13:48.660 --> 00:13:50.620 Yeah, you win, win, win, win. 297 00:13:50.720 --> 00:13:51.000 It's good. 298 00:13:51.020 --> 00:13:51.821 You're doing some good stuff. 299 00:13:52.021 --> 00:13:52.821 I'm trying. 300 00:13:52.841 --> 00:13:53.321 Keep it going. 301 00:13:53.341 --> 00:13:53.601 I'm trying. 302 00:13:53.621 --> 00:13:53.941 Keep it going. 303 00:13:53.961 --> 00:13:54.301 I'm trying. 304 00:13:55.701 --> 00:13:55.962 Cool. 305 00:13:56.162 --> 00:13:56.362 Right. 306 00:13:56.502 --> 00:14:01.663 I want to, I feel like we could turn this show into like, let's just talk about fathered and stuff. 307 00:14:01.723 --> 00:14:03.083 Like we could, couldn't we? 308 00:14:03.223 --> 00:14:05.744 And Josh is like, I haven't got kids yet, but maybe I want some now. 309 00:14:06.484 --> 00:14:07.704 I'll just be a sponge. 310 00:14:07.724 --> 00:14:08.365 Just be a sponge. 311 00:14:08.405 --> 00:14:09.045 Just be a sponge. 312 00:14:11.406 --> 00:14:32.058 my kids annoy the hell out of me as well at the same time um but they're they're incredible um i'm gonna ask you the same question ask everyone all right so you um and and this is actually a wider leadership question than just work and i think we've already established that so what's one thing that you know is true today about leadership that you didn't know five years 313 00:14:39.073 --> 00:14:45.155 The more rope you give people, the more likely they are to hang themselves. 314 00:14:46.296 --> 00:14:48.236 People need routine. 315 00:14:48.437 --> 00:14:49.577 People need structure. 316 00:14:50.017 --> 00:15:02.602 Just because you as a leader can operate on flexibility and additional rope doesn't necessarily mean that everybody in your business is able to do the same. 317 00:15:05.330 --> 00:15:05.590 Cool. 318 00:15:06.050 --> 00:15:15.436 So rather than give you a, you know, yeah, it's a controversial statement, it is, but it's backed on experience that, yeah, we've had. 319 00:15:15.836 --> 00:15:25.401 Yeah, and I would say that that is a, I would say that is an out of vogue, 21st century answer. 320 00:15:25.882 --> 00:15:26.262 But... 321 00:15:28.132 --> 00:15:28.853 I resonate with it. 322 00:15:29.313 --> 00:15:30.874 I think there's an appropriate amount of rope. 323 00:15:30.994 --> 00:15:40.241 I think there's a propensity today to say people need all the rope. 324 00:15:41.122 --> 00:15:47.727 Like, you know, earlier stage people in their careers, I think, are asking for a lot of rope. 325 00:15:48.708 --> 00:15:48.988 But... 326 00:15:50.126 --> 00:15:57.546 Yeah, I'm interested to know a bit about what's driving that lived

experience bit in you. 327 00:15:57.566 --> 00:15:58.689 Where do you come from with that? 328 00:15:59.120 --> 00:16:07.465 So I have a theory and we have an operating model in our business where we don't work on 40 hours a week, right? 329 00:16:07.945 --> 00:16:14.029 So when I'm hiring for a particular need in the business, it's never based on number of hours. 330 00:16:14.149 --> 00:16:16.090 It's based on outcomes and outputs, right? 331 00:16:16.250 --> 00:16:23.395 So it's quite easy to kind of monitor with the media business in that we took on two editors recently. 332 00:16:24.876 --> 00:16:42.885 Fantastic couple of guys And the output was We have three episodes that go out a week They need trailers, the full edit And eight shorts per episode Uploaded, ready to go The week before they do to go out That is the minimum I expect That's their output 333 00:16:45.989 --> 00:16:47.531 What does that translate to hours-wise? 334 00:16:47.571 --> 00:16:47.972 I don't know. 335 00:16:48.392 --> 00:16:49.333 Some people work faster. 336 00:16:49.393 --> 00:16:50.334 Some people work in bursts. 337 00:16:50.354 --> 00:16:52.657 Some people work better than others, right? 338 00:16:52.817 --> 00:16:57.583 In exactly the same way, we had the same model, and I have the same model for my marketing consultant. 339 00:16:57.683 --> 00:16:59.064 We need so many posts that go out. 340 00:16:59.104 --> 00:16:59.985 I need these things. 341 00:17:00.045 --> 00:17:01.307 I need to turn around on these things. 342 00:17:01.627 --> 00:17:03.489 Here is the output agreement that we've got. 343 00:17:04.270 --> 00:17:10.536 And for that, I'm not buying your time, I'm buying your skill set, and therefore I pay you what you've asked for in exchange for this. 344 00:17:10.576 --> 00:17:12.397 That's the contract of employment that we have. 345 00:17:13.458 --> 00:17:18.383 Now, I've had members of staff who we've parted ways with then who are just unable to... 346 00:17:21.513 --> 00:17:23.734 master that level of freedom. 347 00:17:24.554 --> 00:17:30.356 So I've got editors that will work at different hours of the day because they know the output is what the output is. 348 00:17:30.596 --> 00:17:40.860 And I've got a marketing consultant who will go, yeah, cool, I'm gonna dedicate three hours to just getting this stuff done, lining all this stuff up because I've got stuff going on the next couple of days. 349 00:17:41.680 --> 00:17:47.263 But then I've had members of staff who will just be AWOL, not do anything, get to Friday, and they're really behind on the outputs. 350 00:17:47.323 --> 00:17:54.246 Because they're so used to now being able to drop their kids off to school and go and see their friends and have a long weekend. 351 00:17:55.087 --> 00:18:00.570 And it becomes a vicious cycle for them to then break in, kind of almost get back into work mode. 352 00:18:01.450 --> 00:18:07.634 And I had to learn then the hard way that actually, just because you work optimally that way doesn't mean that other people do. 353 00:18:07.994 --> 00:18:09.855 Some people require structure. 354 00:18:10.175 --> 00:18:15.659 For my little ADHD brain, structure and routine is the absolute worst thing that you could put in front of me. 355 00:18:16.659 --> 00:18:20.061 And I will naturally gravitate towards trying to kind of muddy that. 356 00:18:21.042 --> 00:18:24.083 But for others, a lot of others, they need that. 357 00:18:24.163 --> 00:18:24.944 They need the structure. 358 00:18:24.964 --> 00:18:25.724 They need the routine. 359 00:18:25.744 --> 00:18:32.346 They need to know that they are contracted for so many hours a week to do these things. 360 00:18:32.406 --> 00:18:35.067 And that the working hours are X to X. 361 00:18:35.227 --> 00:18:36.748 And because they're just not able to... 362 00:18:37.628 --> 00:18:42.070 They can't help themselves but to take advantage of the situation, which then shoots them in the foot. 363 00:18:42.090 --> 00:18:43.611 They don't do it in a malicious way. 364 00:18:43.631 --> 00:18:44.911 Some people just aren't able to do it. 365 00:18:45.491 --> 00:18:45.731 Yeah. 366 00:18:46.412 --> 00:18:46.752 There's... 367 00:18:48.397 --> 00:18:50.258 There's loads in there we could talk about. 368 00:18:50.298 --> 00:18:51.598 Some toddlers will run into the road. 369 00:18:52.118 --> 00:18:55.039 You can tell them until you're blue in the face, but they will just run straight into the road. 370 00:18:55.239 --> 00:18:57.940 Other kids will start looking left and right because that's what daddy's told them to do. 371 00:18:58.320 --> 00:18:58.921 Do you know what I mean? 372 00:18:59.341 --> 00:19:04.622 It took me a long time to learn that as a leader, that just because you work best at this way doesn't mean that everybody does. 373 00:19:05.363 --> 00:19:11.705 And you need to set your kind of structure in your business individually to the hires that you make. 374 00:19:12.505 --> 00:19:25.678 Does that mean that based on your read and conversation with individuals, you might say your outcomes-based way of working and your set tasks per day way of working? 375 00:19:26.018 --> 00:19:27.079 Yeah, absolutely. 376 00:19:27.099 --> 00:19:28.420 So it's completely individualised? 377 00:19:28.500 --> 00:19:31.163 Yeah, my interview technique is very much like this. 378 00:19:31.203 --> 00:19:31.983 This is not an interview. 379 00:19:32.003 --> 00:19:34.446 This is me getting to know you, me understanding you. 380 00:19:34.926 --> 00:19:36.787 do you have a skill set that I'm willing to pay for? 381 00:19:37.187 --> 00:19:42.308 Like I treat every interview with members of staff and every member of staff will vouch for this when they come and work for me. 382 00:19:43.268 --> 00:19:44.109 It's a business agreement. 383 00:19:44.709 --> 00:19:51.931 It's a contract of skill set, not I've got this vacancy, you need to convince me that you're the right person for this. 384

00:19:52.511 --> 00:19:53.411 Come on, man. 385 00:19:53.511 --> 00:19:55.752 You wouldn't be sat in front of me if I didn't think you could do the job, right? 386 00:19:56.692 --> 00:19:59.395 At this point now, it's a conversation around, this is what I need. 387 00:19:59.575 --> 00:20:00.135 What do you need? 388 00:20:00.776 --> 00:20:01.397 What are your hopes? 389 00:20:01.437 --> 00:20:02.017 What are your dreams? 390 00:20:02.037 --> 00:20:03.358 What are your ambitions? 391 00:20:03.799 --> 00:20:05.580 Because actually money is a driver for you. 392 00:20:06.341 --> 00:20:13.728 And you're a freelance editor and you want to continue doing some freelance work because you do pick up some really interesting gigs at times. 393 00:20:14.368 --> 00:20:19.472 and I don't expect you to work for me forever, God, I'd be questioning you if three years later you're still working for me. 394 00:20:19.652 --> 00:20:20.172 What are you doing? 395 00:20:20.212 --> 00:20:21.113 Where's your ambition, right? 396 00:20:22.113 --> 00:20:28.818 But if you're going, I want to run my own production company at some point, and this is a step in that direction, and, and, and, great. 397 00:20:29.358 --> 00:20:33.041 Now I can work with that and say, listen, here's my output requirements. 398 00:20:33.541 --> 00:20:36.343 If you can get that done by Wednesday, you've got two days to do whatever you want to do. 399 00:20:37.444 --> 00:20:40.387 whether that's pick up freelance work or actually whether that's just gonna sit on the beach. 400 00:20:40.967 --> 00:20:42.269 That's on you, whatever you wanna do. 401 00:20:42.889 --> 00:20:45.592 I'm not buying your time, I'm buying the output, the skillset. 402 00:20:46.512 --> 00:20:56.222 I think that's where a lot of leaders get caught out because we have this thing of where if as an employee I can finish my work sooner, I won't tell my boss because all they'll do is pile more work onto me. 403 00:20:56.922 --> 00:20:59.665 Which for me, it's sort of like, should be rewarding that behavior. 404 00:21:01.137 --> 00:21:04.159 Give them that time back, not I'm buying your time. 405 00:21:04.359 --> 00:21:07.181 There's a big difference, I think, between those type of leadership mindsets. 406 00:21:08.182 --> 00:21:10.884 I think there's a third one for me. 407 00:21:11.524 --> 00:21:24.873 There's a third one for me, which is you've got a contract in amount of hours, 35, 40, whatever it might be, expectations of deliverables and quality within that time period. 408 00:21:25.513 --> 00:21:27.415 And then there's actually if... 409 00:21:28.175 --> 00:21:35.623 if you complete that in a set amount of time, actually there are opportunities for personal development, stretch tasks, and like entrepreneurialism, maybe. 410 00:21:36.023 --> 00:21:49.337 It's like actually, so if you can do all of that editing work, you can then have your time back, or you can come up with an idea that we haven't thought about and pitch for some budget to make us even better. 411 00:21:49.898 --> 00:21:50.238 Let's do it. 412 00:21:50.338 --> 00:21:51.179 Yeah, that's it. 413 00:21:51.439 --> 00:21:53.340 Funny enough, one of my editors did that. 414 00:21:53.640 --> 00:21:59.623 So he messaged me separately and was like, look, I know you've mentioned this in the group and we're looking for somebody to be our channel manager. 415 00:22:00.543 --> 00:22:04.925 I've got time and I'd love to give it a go because I think that's something I could be really good at. 416 00:22:05.225 --> 00:22:05.385 Yeah. 417 00:22:05.926 --> 00:22:07.306 I'm like, that's what I want, right? 418 00:22:08.047 --> 00:22:08.467 Because again... 419 00:22:10.122 --> 00:22:15.209 We've agreed what you want to be paid, and I make sure that I pay you what you want, not what you were earning. 420 00:22:15.289 --> 00:22:16.350 It's what do you want to be earning? 421 00:22:16.430 --> 00:22:16.671 Great. 422 00:22:16.731 --> 00:22:17.592 Here's what I need from you. 423 00:22:18.213 --> 00:22:18.593 Perfect. 424 00:22:19.234 --> 00:22:22.499 Anything above that, if I'm asking you to take on any more responsibility, I'm going to pay you for that. 425 00:22:22.759 --> 00:22:22.939 Yeah. 426 00:22:23.800 --> 00:22:24.001 Yeah. 427 00:22:25.623 --> 00:22:25.843 Good? 428 00:22:27.105 --> 00:22:27.285 Cool. 429 00:22:28.589 --> 00:22:31.871 Josh is now thinking about his hiring patterns and his team. 430 00:22:31.911 --> 00:22:33.812 Yeah, definitely, definitely. 431 00:22:33.832 --> 00:22:46.120 I do think this is the kind of the difference between businesses that are going to survive the next 15 years, 20 years, versus the ones that are going to really struggle to motivate the next workforce. 432 00:22:46.200 --> 00:22:48.902 I think this is what it's going to come down to, is mindset of leaders. 433 00:22:49.722 --> 00:22:53.745 I think, yeah, I think also just operating model of the business as well. 434 00:22:54.205 --> 00:22:59.549 So there's, you started off talking about, you know, people need less rope than we think. 435 00:23:00.169 --> 00:23:06.734 I think you then shared that actually it's the type of rope, like to stretch the analogy massively. 436 00:23:06.774 --> 00:23:13.919 It's like, actually, what's the, like, what is the contractual mutually beneficial exchange that's going on? 437 00:23:13.939 --> 00:23:14.799 Yeah. 438 00:23:15.600 --> 00:23:26.044 Because actually, I think, look, like, for me, in supporting businesses that are growing and scaling, it's like the optimal thing is getting discretional effort from your employees to want to play for the badge. 439 00:23:26.604 --> 00:23:37.027 Like, if I think of the last recruitment business that I worked in as an employee, the secret sauce there was the CEO was fantastic at getting us to drink the Kool-Aid. 440 00:23:37.547 --> 00:23:39.508 Like, we were all, like, playing for the badge. 441 00:23:40.128 --> 00:23:40.989 All playing for the badge.

442 00:23:41.109 --> 00:23:44.310 And that business has done amazing things because... 443 00:23:45.070 --> 00:23:48.092 I mean, don't get me wrong, people were financially rewarded for making more placements, etc. 444 00:23:48.172 --> 00:23:48.812 and doing more work. 445 00:23:49.333 --> 00:23:53.495 But we all wanted to be part of something that was... 446 00:23:53.515 --> 00:23:54.015 It's the tribalism. 447 00:23:54.235 --> 00:23:54.736 It's the tribalism. 448 00:23:54.756 --> 00:23:55.496 It's the community, right? 449 00:23:56.077 --> 00:23:56.917 Yeah, exactly. 450 00:23:57.537 --> 00:24:02.040 And so I think there's a whole bunch of stuff in there, which is super important. 451 00:24:02.060 --> 00:24:06.483 But I do love that opportunity for people to go and do more. 452 00:24:07.810 --> 00:24:14.276 Once they can do their skill set in their tasks, quality skill set time, it's then like, cool, you've got some free time. 453 00:24:14.697 --> 00:24:17.760 And AI tools enable that productivity. 454 00:24:18.180 --> 00:24:31.493 What I love is like, what do we do with that extra, arguably 20% that can really like transform that person's ability, skill set, interests that we can point and shoot towards where the business is going as well. 455 00:24:31.833 --> 00:24:36.414 And look, and dare I say, I think the key is that you've got to know what these guys want then, right? 456 00:24:37.014 --> 00:24:40.415 You've really got to care about your staff to actually care about where they want to be. 457 00:24:40.815 --> 00:24:48.897 And if that means right at the start, you need to make it clear that, listen, I do not expect you to give me the next 20 years, right? 458 00:24:49.237 --> 00:24:53.478 I'd be very disappointed in you if in two, three years' time you weren't coming to me saying... 459 00:24:53.918 --> 00:24:55.282 Do you remember what I said I wanted to do? 460 00:24:55.784 --> 00:24:57.930 Well, that opportunity is on my table now. 461 00:24:57.950 --> 00:24:58.812 I think I'm ready for it. 462 00:24:59.594 --> 00:25:00.236 That's what I want. 463 00:25:00.256 --> 00:25:01.921 I want to be part of your story, not... 464 00:25:02.894 --> 00:25:04.395 I don't want lifers. 465 00:25:04.415 --> 00:25:07.777 I don't want that kind of, you know, the journeyman team. 466 00:25:07.958 --> 00:25:09.639 I want the team that are like, yeah, we did that. 467 00:25:10.019 --> 00:25:18.705 And I look back and that was a really good period of my time because that helped me get to where I am rather than a bunch of people that are just like, yeah, I want to be here in five years. 468 00:25:18.745 --> 00:25:19.826 I see myself leading a team. 469 00:25:19.886 --> 00:25:20.906 Oh, come on, get over it. 470 00:25:21.787 --> 00:25:24.909 Yeah, unless... We all know that's not true. 471 00:25:25.009 --> 00:25:26.731 Unless they come back and they're like, I want to do this thing. 472 00:25:26.751 --> 00:25:27.411 And you're like, brilliant. 473 00:25:27.891

--> 00:25:28.672 We can create that here. 474 00:25:29.132 --> 00:25:29.633 Well, exactly. 475 00:25:29.653 --> 00:25:30.573 I think that there's that match. 476 00:25:30.633 --> 00:25:36.238 But at that point, the differentiator then is that you're an investor in your people and therefore an investor in their ideas. 477 00:25:36.679 --> 00:25:39.761 And you're giving them an opportunity that otherwise... 478 00:25:40.021 --> 00:25:43.925 Think about as great of the recruitment businesses that we've worked for in the past. 479 00:25:43.965 --> 00:25:46.467 If we'd have gone to our boss and said, listen, I'm spinning off on my own. 480 00:25:46.987 --> 00:25:48.208 Would they have gone, I'll back you? 481 00:25:49.129 --> 00:25:49.569 What do you need? 482 00:25:49.589 --> 00:25:50.610 Let me write you the first check. 483 00:25:50.630 --> 00:25:51.010 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 484 00:25:51.391 --> 00:25:53.312 No, it's immediately like, what do you mean? 485 00:25:53.833 --> 00:25:53.973 Yeah. 486 00:25:54.851 --> 00:25:55.691 you're a traitor. 487 00:25:56.492 --> 00:26:05.094 And I think that level, that kind of mentality is rife in our generation and the generation above us, but it's not in the upcoming generations. 488 00:26:05.194 --> 00:26:06.595 And today it's not a problem. 489 00:26:06.615 --> 00:26:12.397 Today we see Gen Z as lazy and Gen Alpha as, what kind of work are they going to be doing? 490 00:26:13.392 --> 00:26:17.495 But the reality is in the next 10 years, which will fly by because the last 10 years will be there, right? 491 00:26:17.615 --> 00:26:23.959 The next 10 years, those people that we consider to be lazy and unmotivatable and not interested, they're coming into the workforce. 492 00:26:24.039 --> 00:26:28.182 But further than that, they're going to be in decision-making situations and positions. 493 00:26:28.742 --> 00:26:32.105 And they're going to be the ones with budget that we're trying to sell our products and services to. 494 00:26:33.205 --> 00:26:34.907 So actually, we better, like... 495 00:26:35.886 --> 00:26:39.891 pull the rods out of our own arses and figure out how do we entertain and work with these people better? 496 00:26:39.911 --> 00:26:45.417 Because if we're just writing our own death warrant, really, I think, as business owners at this point. 497 00:26:45.617 --> 00:26:47.159 Yeah, yeah, I agree. 498 00:26:47.259 --> 00:26:53.026 And I think the hierarchy pyramid is fully flipped. 499 00:26:53.827 --> 00:26:58.132 You know, leaders have to understand and enable the people in front of them. 500 00:26:58.592 --> 00:27:05.220 Like, as you say, you've really got to understand from the outset and set out the playbook for how you're going to operate. 501 00:27:05.660 --> 00:27:10.746 And the businesses that still think that the CEO is at the top of the pyramid are the ones that are going to struggle. 502 00:27:10.766 --> 00:27:10.966 Yeah. 503 00:27:11.106 --> 00:27:12.146 So this one's a bit different. 504

00:27:12.467 --> 00:27:15.988 I'm actually part of the founding team behind a new exclusive community. 505 00:27:16.348 --> 00:27:17.589 It's called My Spare Seat. 506 00:27:18.109 --> 00:27:23.291 And basically, it's a private auction community for last minute luxury experiences. 507 00:27:23.691 --> 00:27:25.912 Michelin restaurant tables that have just opened up 508 00:27:26.652 --> 00:27:37.595 hospitality at big sporting events, Wimbledon, F1, luxury hotel stays, the kind of things that become available at the last minute because someone just can't use it anymore. 509 00:27:37.875 --> 00:27:46.557 Instead of those things going to waste, it gets posted to the group, members bid on it, highest bid wins, and someone actually gets to make use of that experience. 510 00:27:46.857 --> 00:27:53.398 It's invitation only, deliberately kept small, trusted members, exclusive opportunities, and no noise. 511 00:27:53.818 --> 00:27:55.119 If that sounds like your world, 512 00:27:56.859 --> 00:27:58.680 There's always a spare seat with your name on it. 513 00:28:03.341 --> 00:28:05.022 Should we do this decision sprint? 514 00:28:05.042 --> 00:28:05.522 Let's do it. 515 00:28:05.582 --> 00:28:06.082 Let's have a go. 516 00:28:06.362 --> 00:28:06.862 Let's have a play. 517 00:28:07.022 --> 00:28:09.643 So you know how this works. 518 00:28:11.144 --> 00:28:11.804 I've got five cards. 519 00:28:12.504 --> 00:28:14.005 You get to pick one of the five. 520 00:28:14.705 --> 00:28:18.366 And then you get to read it to yourself and decide whether you want it or not. 521 00:28:18.426 --> 00:28:19.126 And you can pass once. 522 00:28:19.466 --> 00:28:19.726 Okay. 523 00:28:19.826 --> 00:28:20.087 Okay. 524 00:28:20.227 --> 00:28:24.048 So once you've done that and agreed your card, then five minutes on the clock... 525 00:28:25.037 --> 00:28:30.059 Josh will activate, activate, I like that, activate the plaud, and then we'll get into it. 526 00:28:30.079 --> 00:28:36.381 You don't have to use all five minutes, all right, but use as much as you can to make sure you've answered the question fully. 527 00:28:36.581 --> 00:28:37.822 That's my only guide. 528 00:28:38.482 --> 00:28:38.662 Yeah. 529 00:28:38.902 --> 00:28:39.322 Happy? 530 00:28:39.422 --> 00:28:42.283 Detail over trying to fill the time with, yeah. 531 00:28:42.303 --> 00:28:42.984 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 532 00:28:43.144 --> 00:28:43.744 Cool, right. 533 00:28:44.844 --> 00:28:45.245 Over to you. 534 00:28:45.285 --> 00:28:46.805 And I'm not going to do any like Darren Brown moving. 535 00:28:46.825 --> 00:28:48.126 You just go for that one. 536 00:28:48.626 --> 00:28:48.846 Cool. 537 00:28:50.146 --> 00:28:50.787 Number four. 538 00:28:51.527 --> 00:28:52.167 Trust card. 539 00:28:54.228 --> 00:28:54.468 Okay. 540 00:28:55.844 --> 00:28:56.664 Want to read it out? 541 00:28:56.844 --> 00:28:57.625 Well, are you happy with it? 542 00:28:58.125 --> 00:28:58.305 Yeah. 543 00:28:58.625 --> 00:28:58.805 Yeah?

544 00:28:58.945 --> 00:28:59.545 Yeah, yeah. 545 00:28:59.565 --> 00:29:00.646 Okay, so I'll read it out. 546 00:29:01.326 --> 00:29:04.907 I'll read it out just because it gives you an opportunity to hear it out loud. 547 00:29:04.947 --> 00:29:06.208 Just please, yeah. 548 00:29:06.348 --> 00:29:06.708 Cool. 549 00:29:06.868 --> 00:29:08.769 Knitting's got the trust card number four. 550 00:29:09.529 --> 00:29:10.369 The scenario is this. 551 00:29:10.469 --> 00:29:12.470 You've learned something you can't unlearn. 552 00:29:13.170 --> 00:29:17.832 Someone in your area of responsibility, someone respected, someone visible, is crossing a line. 553 00:29:18.712 --> 00:29:21.833 The pattern is becoming impossible to ignore and the evidence is clear. 554 00:29:22.453 --> 00:29:27.555 There's an all hands meeting in five days where this person will be publicly recognised for their work. 555 00:29:28.315 --> 00:29:30.276 Saying nothing before then is a choice. 556 00:29:30.636 --> 00:29:30.896 All right. 557 00:29:30.916 --> 00:29:31.737 You could let them crack on. 558 00:29:32.317 --> 00:29:35.678 Saying something damages them and possibly your own standing. 559 00:29:36.698 --> 00:29:37.779 What is your move? 560 00:29:39.084 --> 00:29:39.824 That's the question. 561 00:29:39.904 --> 00:29:43.485 So before you crack on, let's see if I can figure this out. 562 00:29:44.185 --> 00:29:45.926 I managed to put it onto 15 minutes earlier. 563 00:29:47.026 --> 00:29:50.307 I'll waffle, but I think I'll be all right on this. 564 00:29:50.327 --> 00:29:51.067 Yeah, yeah, cool. 565 00:29:51.107 --> 00:29:51.467 Here we go. 566 00:29:51.507 --> 00:29:52.327 Right, five minutes. 567 00:29:52.347 --> 00:29:54.328 Josh, we good on the plaud? 568 00:29:54.348 --> 00:29:54.728 We are now rolling. 569 00:29:57.709 --> 00:29:58.369 Five minutes. 570 00:29:59.369 --> 00:30:00.109 Start, oh, look at that. 571 00:30:00.169 --> 00:30:01.269 Starts now. 572 00:30:01.570 --> 00:30:02.090 Right, okay. 573 00:30:05.102 --> 00:30:07.803 First, I'm going to caveat this, right? 574 00:30:08.003 --> 00:30:13.605 I think the concept of crossing the line is very malleable. 575 00:30:13.725 --> 00:30:15.765 My moral compass is going to be different to yours. 576 00:30:15.785 --> 00:30:17.045 It's going to be different to other people's. 577 00:30:17.085 --> 00:30:20.927 I'm going to come at this from the perspective that I consider this to be crossing the line. 578 00:30:21.647 --> 00:30:24.808 And if I'm considering it to be crossing the line, the answer is really simple. 579 00:30:25.408 --> 00:30:26.768 Leaving it alone is not a problem. 580 00:30:27.308 --> 00:30:28.089 It's not an option. 581 00:30:28.189 --> 00:30:30.429 That is not something I'm going to be doing. 582 00:30:30.989 --> 00:30:32.270 I would... 583 00:30:33.630 --> 00:30:42.016 first of all, have a conversation with this person for the reason that I work on the basis that I'd never say something to you or about you. 584 00:30:42.696 --> 00:30:47.739 I would never say something about you to other people that I wouldn't say to you, to your face, right? 585 00:30:49.360 --> 00:30:51.042 They're getting recognised for their work. 586 00:30:51.102 --> 00:30:58.266 I'm assuming, and this is maybe a leap, but some of the work that they're getting recognised for is something to do with the line that's being crossed, you know? 587 00:30:59.087 --> 00:30:59.187 Yeah. 588 00:31:01.383 --> 00:31:02.124 I wouldn't allow it to happen. 589 00:31:02.664 --> 00:31:11.370 I wouldn't allow it to happen in all good faith for the reason that, regardless of whether it damages my own standings, this has happened on my watch, right? 590 00:31:11.410 --> 00:31:12.851 This has happened... 591 00:31:13.732 --> 00:31:16.414 If it's going to impact me, this is something that's happened under my nose. 592 00:31:16.874 --> 00:31:21.258 So therefore, I must bear some responsibility for the issue at hand. 593 00:31:22.759 --> 00:31:28.823 Again, coming at this from the perspective of what I consider to be crossing a line, this wouldn't be something that I would just sit quietly about either. 594 00:31:29.043 --> 00:31:30.144 So I would go to... 595 00:31:31.205 --> 00:31:41.713 kind of my higher ops and anybody involved in the leadership chain and kind of make it abundantly clear that this is what's happening or has happened, continuing to happen. 596 00:31:42.373 --> 00:31:47.437 We're about to recognise this person in a public domain for their achievements and so on, and it just isn't right. 597 00:31:48.538 --> 00:31:55.963 And I would, yeah, I'd challenge it and kind of take the blowout that comes regardless. 598 00:31:59.286 --> 00:31:59.746 Anything else? 599 00:32:01.250 --> 00:32:01.911 It doesn't have to be. 600 00:32:04.953 --> 00:32:05.734 I'd want to... 601 00:32:06.054 --> 00:32:19.845 I think I'd feel compelled to tell this person or explain to this person why I'm behaving in the way that I am around kind of my own personal, you know, decision-making, my own personal kind of... 602 00:32:21.025 --> 00:32:48.017 moral compass I would assume that this person would try to convince me otherwise in terms of the damage that it would do to them and so on and so forth but again if it's something I consider to be crossing a line there's really not much anybody can say to make me think no I'm not going to do this most people know where the line is and when they've crossed it they just hope they get away with it it doesn't happen with me and that's it we're done stop that 603 00:32:51.398 --> 00:32:51.898 All good, Josh? 604 00:32:52.499 --> 00:32:52.679 All good. 605 00:32:52.699 --> 00:32:52.999 Great. 606 00:32:55.961 --> 00:32:58.542 I think it's really interesting that we both know Psy. 607 00:32:58.822 --> 00:32:58.982 Yeah. 608 00:32:59.202 --> 00:33:00.863 And you've got the same card. 609 00:33:01.263 --> 00:33:01.924 Yeah. 610 00:33:02.164 --> 00:33:04.825 I thought

that when I was like, I think this is the same one that Psy had. 611 00:33:04.845 --> 00:33:06.967 This is the one that Psy had. 612 00:33:07.127 --> 00:33:12.730 He's going to hate that as well, though, because I'm not competitive at all, but he is really competitive, but not in a bad way, right? 613 00:33:12.790 --> 00:33:12.970 Yeah. 614 00:33:13.030 --> 00:33:14.811 And he's going to be like, he better not score better than me. 615 00:33:15.011 --> 00:33:16.592 At this point, he's going to be watching this going... 616 00:33:17.112 --> 00:33:18.173 he better not get better than me. 617 00:33:18.253 --> 00:33:20.134 Whereas I'm like, I hope I don't. 618 00:33:20.254 --> 00:33:21.414 So let's do this. 619 00:33:21.795 --> 00:33:22.955 Let's do this. 620 00:33:23.576 --> 00:33:29.659 We'll both WhatsApp him and we'll just say, same card, but we're not telling you the score and he's going to have to wait. 621 00:33:29.939 --> 00:33:31.280 Do you know what? 622 00:33:31.300 --> 00:33:34.181 He's going to have to wait until it comes out. 623 00:33:35.842 --> 00:33:37.402 So, question for you. 624 00:33:37.422 --> 00:33:38.263 How did you find that? 625 00:33:38.283 --> 00:33:40.083 When you got the card, what was your initial reaction? 626 00:33:40.563 --> 00:33:45.864 I'm trying to paint a picture in my head of something that perhaps has happened and stuff, that I can kind of relate it to. 627 00:33:46.124 --> 00:33:48.065 And there was a few different things. 628 00:33:49.785 --> 00:33:54.566 But I was ready to jump straight to the answer, because I think for me it was like, I know the answer to this. 629 00:33:55.746 --> 00:33:58.467 It's really key for me to explain what I mean by that, in that... 630 00:33:59.668 --> 00:34:06.710 Like, if I consider someone to be crossing the line, then I'm convicted, that's it, they'll cross the line. 631 00:34:07.190 --> 00:34:12.232 And then I have this, like, kind of, my wife calls it a Messiah syndrome of, like, no, I need to do something about that. 632 00:34:12.652 --> 00:34:15.253 Like, I can't allow that to happen, that's not right, you know? 633 00:34:16.435 --> 00:34:20.862 and I always have this compelling need to be like, you need to step in now. 634 00:34:21.342 --> 00:34:22.023 No one else is going to do it. 635 00:34:22.043 --> 00:34:23.526 You need to go in and do it. 636 00:34:23.746 --> 00:34:24.768 It's a little devil on my shoulders. 637 00:34:24.788 --> 00:34:25.669 It's like a sense of justice. 638 00:34:25.870 --> 00:34:26.931 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 639 00:34:26.971 --> 00:34:30.938 Whether it's justice, as I say, whether it's Messiah syndrome, whether it's a little devil that's just like, go on. 640 00:34:31.578 --> 00:34:32.439 Just do it. 641 00:34:33.820 --> 00:34:38.262 I feel very fortunate to be in the position that I am in that I don't have a boss. 642 00:34:38.282 --> 00:34:39.403 I don't have anyone to answer to. 643 00:34:39.423 --> 00:34:43.725 So when I see something that doesn't sit right with me, I'm quite happy to call it out and be like, that's bullshit. 644 00:34:43.865 --> 00:34:45.326 Do you know what I mean? 645 00:34:45.506 --> 00:34:47.628 But yeah, in that sort of a scenario, it's sort of like... 646 00:34:48.308 --> 00:34:56.637 There's a pattern, you can't ignore it, it's clear evidence, and if above all else I've considered this to be crossing a line, then I can't just turn away from that, it's not right. 647 00:34:57.117 --> 00:35:01.582 Regardless of kind of, the whole thing was impossibly your own standing, that don't matter to me. 648 00:35:02.062 --> 00:35:03.944 I don't really care what other people think of me. 649 00:35:05.366 --> 00:35:06.667 I care about what's right and wrong, right? 650 00:35:06.935 --> 00:35:07.195 Yeah, yeah. 651 00:35:07.956 --> 00:35:08.156 Yeah. 652 00:35:08.196 --> 00:35:15.660 And I think, I mean, look, the way the scenario is designed is it's designed to put little landmines in there, left, right and centre. 653 00:35:15.800 --> 00:35:17.201 Like, am I answering that correctly? 654 00:35:18.041 --> 00:35:24.185 Am I going to, I guess, stay true to my kind of instincts? 655 00:35:25.205 --> 00:35:26.486 Have you had a scenario like that in the past? 656 00:35:29.193 --> 00:35:30.896 A variety of different things. 657 00:35:31.397 --> 00:35:33.161 A variety of different things. 658 00:35:33.381 --> 00:35:37.309 The one that jumps to mind is kind of 659 00:35:39.352 --> 00:35:45.575 a situation around kind of potential sexual harassment at work, right? 660 00:35:45.955 --> 00:35:51.217 And at the time, I've got, like, a newly-born little girl, and I'm, like, I'm seeing the world differently as a girl dad now. 661 00:35:51.838 --> 00:35:52.818 And I'm like, that's not right. 662 00:35:52.858 --> 00:35:53.818 I'm not having that. 663 00:35:53.939 --> 00:35:55.099 I can't have that, you know? 664 00:35:55.839 --> 00:35:59.481 And, you know, went straight into it, like, what are you doing? 665 00:35:59.501 --> 00:36:02.582 They say, no, either you leave or I'll make you leave kind of thing. 666 00:36:02.963 --> 00:36:03.203 Yeah. 667 00:36:04.623 --> 00:36:05.804 There's, I mean, out of that... 668 00:36:06.828 --> 00:36:12.692 It's a shame that it took me being a girl dad to not look and find that funny and actually see it in a different light. 669 00:36:13.473 --> 00:36:23.520 But I'm also then very grateful that I had the opportunity to grow and learn and develop as a 30-something-year-old to watch something happen and be like, that ain't right, I'm not allowing that to happen. 670 00:36:23.680 --> 00:36:23.980 Yeah, yeah. 671 00:36:24.560 --> 00:36:26.162 And I think our life... 672 00:36:27.002 --> 00:36:33.147 our life experiences frame our, like probably focus our moral compass, don't they? 673 00:36:33.427 --> 00:36:34.068 Yeah, absolutely. 674 00:36:34.088 --> 00:36:39.632 Like it's just really focusing and then things that you experience at home become things

you notice more often. 675 00:36:39.652 --> 00:36:43.295 You can't help but have that bleed into work and life. 676 00:36:43.855 --> 00:36:44.176 100%. 677 00:36:44.476 --> 00:36:46.498 I think where you are in life as well, right? 678 00:36:46.598 --> 00:36:49.040 And the level of comfort that you have at that point. 679 00:36:49.760 --> 00:37:15.949 dictates whether or not you will do something that will perhaps risk your standing or not right I think when you're more confident and comfortable with the stability that you've got with the ground beneath you you're probably more likely to step out and say no I'm not having that whereas if you're kind of on a deck of cards already and you're really uncomfortable and saying something could cost me dearly then that 50-50 chance could be the thing that drives you to say I can't say anything as much as I want to 680 00:37:18.511 --> 00:37:21.053 That wasn't your Messiah complex, that was just the light going off. 681 00:37:21.134 --> 00:37:21.694 That was okay, wasn't it? 682 00:37:21.894 --> 00:37:23.837 Yeah, yeah, they're like motion sensing every so often. 683 00:37:23.857 --> 00:37:24.497 They caught on control. 684 00:37:24.778 --> 00:37:28.922 They hit up, I was like, no, you're wrong. 685 00:37:29.623 --> 00:37:36.771 I think this is really interesting as a challenge because there's scenarios in every business. 686 00:37:39.417 --> 00:37:43.118 how do I not paint salespeople into a bad corner? 687 00:37:43.518 --> 00:37:54.142 I think that there are, I've seen so many incidences where sales revenue generators in particular that exhibit across the line behaviors get forgiven. 688 00:37:55.582 --> 00:37:59.844 Or blind, you know, you're like, well, look at that, because they drop a million into the P&L. 689 00:38:00.444 --> 00:38:02.825 And I think- I was one of those people. 690 00:38:03.665 --> 00:38:06.486 As in, I was one of those people that used to be able to get away with a lot. 691 00:38:07.146 --> 00:38:11.109 Because my numbers allowed me to kind of go, what are you going to do? 692 00:38:11.550 --> 00:38:12.170 Yeah. 693 00:38:12.631 --> 00:38:14.232 I'll walk out and walk into a different job, right? 694 00:38:14.881 --> 00:38:17.742 I spent 22 years running leadership workshops. 695 00:38:17.902 --> 00:38:23.625 People left the room inspired, but six weeks later, nothing had changed in how they were managing their teams. 696 00:38:23.885 --> 00:38:27.207 Nobody was measuring the only thing that counts behavior. 697 00:38:27.647 --> 00:38:29.168 And this is why we built a theory. 698 00:38:29.408 --> 00:38:35.931 A theory of develop works where your managers already work in Microsoft Teams, Slack, Outlook and Google. 699 00:38:36.091 --> 00:38:41.174 It measures how they actually lead and then coaches them in the moment in your language. 700 00:38:41.354 --> 00:38:44.255 Privacy first patterns, never content. 701 00:38:44.335 --> 00:38:52.061 Check it out at getetherio.com. 702 00:38:53.422 --> 00:38:54.944 So yeah, I've witnessed it. 703 00:38:55.004 --> 00:38:56.345 I completely agree with you. 704 00:38:56.465 --> 00:38:59.948 It's not right, but again, it's one of those things, isn't it? 705 00:39:01.429 --> 00:39:04.071 It takes all sorts to make the world go round. 706 00:39:04.211 --> 00:39:05.112 It does take all sorts. 707 00:39:05.212 --> 00:39:05.992 It does take all sorts. 708 00:39:06.013 --> 00:39:07.694 And I think creating... 709 00:39:09.195 --> 00:39:19.908 you've got to be so purposeful about the culture you want to create as a leader to be able to say, actually, I would rather take... 710 00:39:20.589 --> 00:39:25.354 I would rather take protecting the culture over that short-term revenue. 711 00:39:26.035 --> 00:39:26.776 Because ultimately... 712 00:39:28.210 --> 00:39:30.732 I mean, we've probably both seen it and experienced it. 713 00:39:31.973 --> 00:39:38.017 Once you let that go once, other people see it and they're like, well, now I've got some revenue under my belt. 714 00:39:38.557 --> 00:39:38.878 I might. 715 00:39:39.018 --> 00:39:39.938 You set precedent. 716 00:39:40.178 --> 00:39:41.920 Yeah. 717 00:39:42.040 --> 00:39:43.241 And then that shapes the culture. 718 00:39:44.041 --> 00:39:48.064 We'll say like, you know, we talk about like your brand as a business and like, 719 00:39:49.577 --> 00:39:52.238 You know, your brand isn't decided around a boardroom. 720 00:39:52.798 --> 00:39:54.398 You can't decide what your brand is. 721 00:39:54.818 --> 00:39:58.279 Your people will dictate your brand because your brand is what people say about you when you're not in the room. 722 00:39:59.239 --> 00:40:02.260 And your people are the ones out and about doing the daily do, right? 723 00:40:03.140 --> 00:40:06.820 That's what's dictating what people think and feel about your particular business and your particular brand. 724 00:40:07.581 --> 00:40:13.642 Yeah, and that's when you get that disconnect between the values on the wall and actually, like, how people are behaving whilst they're there. 725 00:40:15.082 --> 00:40:24.069 Yeah, I can remember being a few years ago now, I was in the boardroom of a customer and it was like glass wall, that side. 726 00:40:24.089 --> 00:40:26.931 They're all sat there and we're talking about their culture and their value. 727 00:40:26.951 --> 00:40:30.774 They were talking about some of the challenges they were having in terms of leadership, et cetera. 728 00:40:30.814 --> 00:40:35.157 And behind them, glass, meter and wall were their values on the wall. 729 00:40:35.658 --> 00:40:40.001 And what they were talking about, you know, were contradictory to all of those values. 730 00:40:40.862 --> 00:40:42.383 I remember just thinking to myself, yeah. 731 00:40:42.997 --> 00:40:49.841 wow, like, you know, you've got to be so, like when you put stuff up on the wall, you've then got to be so mindful about it day to day. 732 00:40:50.681 --> 00:40:53.743 But it

doesn't, my observation is it doesn't change overnight. 733 00:40:53.923 --> 00:40:56.585 It changes like one thing like this at a time. 734 00:40:56.605 --> 00:40:59.106 Yeah, one bit of activity, one decision each time, right? 735 00:40:59.166 --> 00:40:59.386 Yeah. 736 00:40:59.706 --> 00:41:02.008 And look, oftentimes, and I was guilty of this, right? 737 00:41:02.488 --> 00:41:10.873 Oftentimes when you're an SMB, a small business, trying to just make it through and trying to get the bills paid, revenue takes precedent, right? 738 00:41:12.214 --> 00:41:39.734 I use this example all the time We went from being incredibly picky about the work That we were participating in And the clients that we were working with To picking like It wasn't even low hanging fruit anymore This was rotten fruit and veg off the floor And we were calling it a fee Like you know This client's not going to pay We know they're not going to pay But the debt's insured And the invoice financing company can deal with it Yeah They're the things that are driving these decisions And this behaviour Yeah Like if you're just looking to get You know I need to meet payroll Yeah 739 00:41:40.334 --> 00:41:41.955 And then that's just one way down, isn't it? 740 00:41:41.975 --> 00:41:43.336 You're just looking down, you're looking down. 741 00:41:43.356 --> 00:41:46.139 Do you want to have a look at your score? 742 00:41:46.679 --> 00:41:47.840 Please, yeah, yeah. 743 00:41:47.880 --> 00:41:49.001 So, are we ready? 744 00:41:49.021 --> 00:41:50.242 We are ready. 745 00:41:50.262 --> 00:41:51.383 Okay, let's have a look. 746 00:41:54.025 --> 00:41:56.026 Oh, 62. 747 00:41:56.307 --> 00:41:57.988 Is that good? 748 00:41:58.028 --> 00:42:00.250 62, what, top five? 749 00:42:01.385 --> 00:42:05.646 Top five, I think that puts you, I'm going to go fourth. 750 00:42:06.726 --> 00:42:08.267 I think that puts you fourth so far. 751 00:42:08.847 --> 00:42:10.387 So have a look at the score. 752 00:42:10.427 --> 00:42:13.448 So Catalyst was your archetype over there on the left. 753 00:42:13.468 --> 00:42:15.129 We'll talk a bit about that. 754 00:42:15.349 --> 00:42:16.369 So your five dimensions. 755 00:42:17.830 --> 00:42:20.430 I don't think we've seen a conviction score that high. 756 00:42:22.591 --> 00:42:23.411 No, my jaw dropped. 757 00:42:23.451 --> 00:42:24.691 92% is massive. 758 00:42:24.711 --> 00:42:30.393 Yeah, so have a little read of the strengths and the watchouts, and then let's have a... 759 00:42:44.001 --> 00:42:46.483 Yeah, I agree with the watch out. 760 00:42:47.323 --> 00:42:50.245 However, I will stand by the fact that it didn't really matter who it is. 761 00:42:51.990 --> 00:42:53.491 From CEO to the cleaner. 762 00:42:54.452 --> 00:42:55.913 Like, if they're crossing the line, they're crossing the line. 763 00:42:55.953 --> 00:42:56.613 It doesn't matter who you are. 764 00:42:56.814 --> 00:42:57.034 Yeah. 765 00:42:58.114 --> 00:42:58.415 Yeah. 766 00:42:58.475

--> 00:42:58.775 Yeah. 767 00:42:58.795 --> 00:43:03.458 So I think, look, like, you started off, for me, like, feedback? 768 00:43:04.139 --> 00:43:04.559 Please. 769 00:43:04.579 --> 00:43:05.280 Yeah, yeah, of course. 770 00:43:05.300 --> 00:43:09.262 So this is great because it's like a live little coaching session now. 771 00:43:09.623 --> 00:43:12.445 So conviction, like, yeah, came across in spades. 772 00:43:12.505 --> 00:43:13.706 You know your moral compass. 773 00:43:13.766 --> 00:43:15.207 You know your line, et cetera. 774 00:43:16.247 --> 00:43:21.129 you weren't, the question wasn't able to derail you, like possibly your own standing. 775 00:43:21.149 --> 00:43:22.869 You're like, I'm not falling for that. 776 00:43:23.129 --> 00:43:31.091 Trade-off articulation, you started straight away with, there's gonna be two sides to this, the person, the company, et cetera. 777 00:43:31.111 --> 00:43:33.152 So you were able to articulate that really, really well. 778 00:43:33.792 --> 00:43:35.593 Decision speed, yeah, super high. 779 00:43:35.813 --> 00:43:36.873 You were straight into it. 780 00:43:37.513 --> 00:43:39.934 And your strategic clarity was pretty high as well. 781 00:43:40.094 --> 00:43:55.339 The operator density bit was about actually getting into the nuts and bolts of, I would speak to this person, this is what we would say, this would be the approach of how we would stop that person talking, etc. 782 00:43:55.920 --> 00:44:02.962 There's one layer that I think in the operator density bit you could have gone into, which is... 783 00:44:04.397 --> 00:44:09.181 The person has, it's visible they're crossing the line, the pattern has become impossible. 784 00:44:10.442 --> 00:44:16.866 What happens if that person is just going for a super tough time? 785 00:44:17.707 --> 00:44:23.451 And actually, it's not a vindictive thing, it's a something else thing. 786 00:44:24.538 --> 00:44:35.567 And so I think the operator density bit is, is there an opportunity to look under the rock and go, actually, it's a bit ugly under there, but is there something else going on in life? 787 00:44:35.607 --> 00:44:36.328 Yeah, I hear that. 788 00:44:36.668 --> 00:44:38.269 But this comes back to the conviction thing. 789 00:44:38.289 --> 00:44:39.851 For me, it's sort of like, so what? 790 00:44:40.131 --> 00:44:41.012 Everyone's dealing with stuff. 791 00:44:41.432 --> 00:44:42.333 Everybody's got problems. 792 00:44:42.994 --> 00:44:46.379 Listen, I had a business partner who, you know, we were like brothers. 793 00:44:47.441 --> 00:44:57.096 And he left me in a really bad way, you know, having taken like fraudulent loans out and things like that against me, because he was in a bad financial situation. 794 00:44:58.420 --> 00:45:00.742 Like, that doesn't matter to me. 795 00:45:01.063 --> 00:45:02.464 Oh, I'm like this because of this. 796 00:45:03.385 --> 00:45:05.126 My dad was an alcoholic and a missing father. 797 00:45:06.027 --> 00:45:07.509 I'm the best dad that I can be. 798 00:45:08.450 --> 00:45:08.990 Do you know what I mean? 799 00:45:09.030 --> 00:45:14.395 Like, that trade-off thing doesn't work in my very kind of autistic mind. 800 00:45:14.535 --> 00:45:15.496 It's just like, yeah, I don't care. 801 00:45:15.877 --> 00:45:16.317 I don't care. 802 00:45:16.457 --> 00:45:17.538 You know you're doing something wrong. 803 00:45:17.979 --> 00:45:20.561 It doesn't matter whether you can justify it to yourself or not. 804 00:45:21.782 --> 00:45:22.462 It really doesn't matter. 805 00:45:22.883 --> 00:45:23.103 Yeah. 806 00:45:23.123 --> 00:45:26.345 Like, if you're doing something that you shouldn't be doing, and you know you shouldn't be doing it, don't do it. 807 00:45:27.105 --> 00:45:28.346 It's pretty simple, right? 808 00:45:28.446 --> 00:45:29.166 Yeah, yeah. 809 00:45:29.226 --> 00:45:30.307 And that comes across. 810 00:45:30.327 --> 00:45:31.287 That comes across. 811 00:45:31.748 --> 00:45:34.149 My challenge to that is, I think, that... 812 00:45:34.849 --> 00:45:35.510 I think that that... 813 00:45:36.693 --> 00:45:38.175 There's a risk. 814 00:45:38.195 --> 00:45:48.846 There's a risk that that true North Star piece can potentially create some collateral damage because of past experiences. 815 00:45:48.866 --> 00:45:50.708 And we're all built on those past experiences. 816 00:45:50.748 --> 00:45:54.612 You've just very eloquently shared two reasons why 817 00:45:55.842 --> 00:45:57.944 your decision sprint answer was what it was. 818 00:45:58.624 --> 00:46:05.489 And I think that this, as an opportunity, is like nine times out of ten, you're probably right. 819 00:46:06.109 --> 00:46:12.113 It's the one time out of ten where actually you might act when there might be something else going on. 820 00:46:12.133 --> 00:46:12.453 Yeah, yeah. 821 00:46:12.594 --> 00:46:15.676 And there might be some collateral damage that falls out of that with that person. 822 00:46:16.196 --> 00:46:16.656 Is that fair? 823 00:46:16.816 --> 00:46:17.677 No, I think that's really fair. 824 00:46:17.697 --> 00:46:18.558 Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely. 825 00:46:19.238 --> 00:46:20.339 How did you find the whole experience? 826 00:46:20.899 --> 00:46:21.220 It was good. 827 00:46:21.240 --> 00:46:21.820 I enjoyed it. 828 00:46:22.380 --> 00:46:23.181 Yeah. 829 00:46:23.301 --> 00:46:24.242 It wasn't a... 830 00:46:25.658 --> 00:46:27.359 It wasn't something that I had to think too hard about. 831 00:46:27.620 --> 00:46:29.962 Like, you know, I try and approach everything like that. 832 00:46:30.022 --> 00:46:30.882 Just sort of, just do it. 833 00:46:31.343 --> 00:46:31.483 Yeah. 834 00:46:31.783 --> 00:46:33.485 You know, don't over-prep, just do it. 835 00:46:33.845 --> 00:46:36.527 So we won't tell everyone about the reams of notes you walked in with? 836 00:46:36.867 --> 00:46:37.848 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 837 00:46:37.868 --> 00:46:39.169 Full of, full of, yeah, yeah. 838

00:46:39.189 --> 00:46:40.110 So I've watched every episode. 839 00:46:40.150 --> 00:46:45.174 I've watched every episode, I've prepped, I'm ready to go, I've got my... Can you put the trust card on number four and I can pick that one, please? 840 00:46:45.194 --> 00:46:45.755 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 841 00:46:46.756 --> 00:46:54.007 So I've had challenges from people saying to me, but what happens when people come on and they know the five cards and they've prepped their answers? 842 00:46:54.107 --> 00:46:55.669 And my answer to that is... 843 00:46:56.677 --> 00:46:57.558 Guests will see that. 844 00:46:58.378 --> 00:47:08.927 Either they'll turn up with five notes or an iPad or whatever, or actually their answer will just be crap because it will just be so metronomic and bullet points. 845 00:47:09.287 --> 00:47:11.048 And then everything will be the centre of the park, right? 846 00:47:11.208 --> 00:47:12.830 Because you've tried to game the system. 847 00:47:12.850 --> 00:47:17.794 This is like any sort of personality tests and behavioural judgement tests and stuff like that. 848 00:47:18.394 --> 00:47:20.155 You can tell when someone's tried to trick the system. 849 00:47:20.436 --> 00:47:23.318 Yeah, and also we've built Failsafe in there. 850 00:47:23.818 --> 00:47:48.670 so if you're too good you just get a picture that's it we haven't but we should we really should we really should nice try um we i'm building that that that's the next iteration i'm building that you've prepped too much josh can press like button i'm gonna get cancelled in the us now aren't i we're gonna get like yeah you said like you said that name way too many times for this to do numbers on youtube now like you know that right yeah 851 00:47:48.910 --> 00:48:14.412 you will get shadow banned you'll have to when you're editing this josh make sure you just leave it out i'm genuinely as well like we've had four episodes shadow banned because the guest has mentioned him and youtube are like that's political content you're like well it's not is it contextually speaking they're like no okay cool so we're actually editing that yeah we'll keep the name no you won't keep the name we'll keep the content but we'll beat the name just leave the 852 00:48:17.568 --> 00:48:21.872 Saeed was third with 56. 853 00:48:21.912 --> 00:48:22.652 Oh, Saeed was third? 854 00:48:23.093 --> 00:48:23.313 Yes. 855 00:48:23.333 --> 00:48:24.414 So you beat Saeed. 856 00:48:24.454 --> 00:48:25.074 Oh, no. 857 00:48:25.174 --> 00:48:26.736 And he doesn't know until now. 858 00:48:26.756 --> 00:48:28.757 Yeah, he's not going to like that either. 859 00:48:28.837 --> 00:48:29.138 Amazing. 860 00:48:29.298 --> 00:48:30.399 Saeed, I'm sorry, bro. 861 00:48:30.439 --> 00:48:31.139 Like, genuinely. 862 00:48:31.360 --> 00:48:32.440 I know this probably means a lot more. 863 00:48:32.460 --> 00:48:33.782 This is down the lens as well. 864 00:48:33.822 --> 00:48:36.264 Yeah, this probably means a lot more to you than it does to me. 865 00:48:36.384 --> 00:48:37.745 And I'm genuinely really sorry. 866 00:48:38.245 --> 00:48:39.406 Like, he's so competitive. 867 00:48:39.426 --> 00:48:40.147 He's going to hate that. 868 00:48:40.407 --> 00:48:41.648 Like, he loves his sports. 869 00:48:41.708 --> 00:48:42.969 And, like, you know, he's really into that. 870 00:48:42.989 --> 00:48:44.150 So I couldn't care less. 871 00:48:44.230 --> 00:48:45.071 I'm just like, yeah, cool, man. 872 00:48:45.311 --> 00:48:55.075 Yeah, and also I was like, as long as I'm not bottom, I'm good And also, Cy finished And he won't, you won't mind me saying this, Cy He also said, I need to come back on He did, didn't he? 873 00:48:55.095 --> 00:49:03.398 Yeah, yeah, yeah He was like, yeah, come back on Yeah, yeah, yeah, come back on Because he'll try and game it next time Yeah What's really funny is I'm fairly certain his operator's density was low as well 874 00:49:03.766 --> 00:49:14.095 His operator density, yes, because what you share is a very sound basis on your moral compass. 875 00:49:14.255 --> 00:49:14.455 Yeah. 876 00:49:14.715 --> 00:49:16.256 So his conviction was high. 877 00:49:16.657 --> 00:49:19.619 His decision speed was high as well. 878 00:49:21.161 --> 00:49:22.522 His conviction was not as... 879 00:49:22.602 --> 00:49:23.222 He'll be gutted. 880 00:49:23.262 --> 00:49:25.204 His conviction was not as... That's the one metric. 881 00:49:25.224 --> 00:49:27.086 That's because he takes longer to think. 882 00:49:27.326 --> 00:49:28.507 I'm a... Yeah, I'm a... 883 00:49:28.987 --> 00:49:29.728 You know what I mean? 884 00:49:29.828 --> 00:49:32.130 Even if I'm wrong, I'll say it with confusion. 885 00:49:32.150 --> 00:49:38.996 Whereas he thinks things through a lot more because he's just a better thinker than I am, I think. 886 00:49:39.016 --> 00:49:41.438 Well, he's an ops wizard. 887 00:49:41.458 --> 00:49:41.798 That's it. 888 00:49:41.978 --> 00:49:48.524 And that takes reflection time and composure and understanding all the variables to make the right decision. 889 00:49:48.544 --> 00:49:49.125 100%. 890 00:49:49.145 --> 00:49:51.587 So I think, Josh, that puts Knit in third. 891 00:49:51.627 --> 00:49:51.727 Yeah. 892 00:49:54.583 --> 00:49:54.923 Second? 893 00:49:57.585 --> 00:49:58.786 That puts him at number two. 894 00:49:58.806 --> 00:49:59.927 Well, hey, top two. 895 00:49:59.987 --> 00:50:02.629 So what you need to do now is you need to watch Natalie's episode. 896 00:50:02.689 --> 00:50:02.889 Right. 897 00:50:03.169 --> 00:50:06.612 She didn't get the trust question, but she's number one. 898 00:50:07.152 --> 00:50:07.472 So... 899 00:50:09.305 --> 00:50:10.445 She was also a catalyst. 900 00:50:10.545 --> 00:50:13.846 So catalysts score well on the decisions print. 901 00:50:14.026 --> 00:50:14.726 Mate, it's been a joy. 902 00:50:14.806 --> 00:50:16.027 Mate, genuinely, I love this format. 903 00:50:16.827 --> 00:50:17.987 I watched the first one. 904 00:50:18.007 --> 00:50:19.647 I was like, wow, I like this. 905 00:50:19.667 --> 00:50:20.728 This is cool. 906 00:50:20.748 --> 00:50:21.708 There's a lot of jeopardy for Josh. 907 00:50:21.728 --> 00:50:25.069 And to be fair, immediately I was like, how do I put this into kind of what we do at RepTalk? 908 00:50:25.469 --> 00:50:25.669 Mate. 909 00:50:26.489 --> 00:50:31.330 So I was speaking to someone else in the recruitment industry who's launching a podcast. 910 00:50:31.830 --> 00:50:36.871 And they said to me, Ben, I'm going to nick the format, but in a recruitment setting. 911 00:50:36.911 --> 00:50:39.012 And I was like, okay, fine. 912 00:50:39.478 --> 00:50:40.479 Was this Bobby by any chance? 913 00:50:40.679 --> 00:50:40.819 Yes. 914 00:50:40.839 --> 00:50:41.760 It was Bobby, wasn't it? 915 00:50:41.820 --> 00:50:42.561 Yeah. 916 00:50:42.741 --> 00:50:44.282 I knew immediately it was Bobby. 917 00:50:45.163 --> 00:50:49.346 Yeah, Bobby, he... What you need to know about Bobby is, don't worry about it, he won't do it. 918 00:50:49.506 --> 00:50:49.806 Okay. 919 00:50:49.987 --> 00:50:50.507 He'll say it. 920 00:50:50.847 --> 00:50:51.768 He will think it. 921 00:50:51.868 --> 00:50:52.329 He won't do it. 922 00:50:52.529 --> 00:50:53.049 Okay. 923 00:50:53.289 --> 00:50:54.570 He is like, yeah. 924 00:50:55.051 --> 00:50:55.431 Okay, fine. 925 00:50:55.451 --> 00:50:59.074 Full of ideas, but when it comes to execution, he's always busy doing something else. 926 00:50:59.194 --> 00:50:59.414 Yeah. 927 00:50:59.655 --> 00:51:00.415 Okay, well, it's fine. 928 00:51:00.555 --> 00:51:03.818 It's fine, because... Bobby's a good friend of mine as well. 929 00:51:03.838 --> 00:51:05.479 Yeah, yeah, I know you guys are good mates. 930 00:51:05.720 --> 00:51:05.880 Um... 931 00:51:06.881 --> 00:51:10.704 Bobby, it's actually a pain in the ass to build the intelligence engine for it. 932 00:51:10.864 --> 00:51:11.925 So, yeah, go for it. 933 00:51:12.226 --> 00:51:12.866 Try it. 934 00:51:13.207 --> 00:51:13.967 Yeah, try it. 935 00:51:14.088 --> 00:51:15.329 Good luck. 936 00:51:15.889 --> 00:51:17.931 Mate, loved it. 937 00:51:18.011 --> 00:51:18.632 Mate, what a pleasure. 938 00:51:18.652 --> 00:51:19.633 Honestly, really enjoyed this. 939 00:51:19.653 --> 00:51:20.314 Thank you so much. 940 00:51:20.674 --> 00:51:22.215 You're welcome. 941 00:51:22.776 --> 00:51:23.096 Here, Josh. 942 00:51:23.136 --> 00:51:23.417 Thanks. 943 00:51:23.997 --> 00:51:24.618 It was good, man. 944 00:51:24.658 --> 00:51:25.158 Mate, honestly.