Full Transcript for #0043 JAMES CARTER - GET YOUR ART SEEN!

conversation before, and I think your journey to get to here is so interesting and so inspiring, but also that end result of Creative Flair being a platform that just wants to help other artists, which is again what Creative Nowhere Land is trying to do in its same similar way. 00:05:37.199 --> 00:05:38.399 So there's the synergy. 00:05:38.639 --> 00:05:40.399 But how do we start? 00:05:40.720 --> 00:05:45.839 I mean, my whole journey with Creative Flair, I was very back to the beginning, I was homeschooled my entire life. 00:05:46.000 --> 00:05:49.920 I grew up in Australia, I grew up with all these sorts of things in the world. 00:05:50.319 --> 00:05:57.279 I don't come from an artistic family, but I always enjoyed being creative, I always enjoyed being an artist. 00:05:57.519 --> 00:06:06.079 When I was like six or seven years old or something in Australia, my family took me to an art museum, and I turned around to my grandfather and said, I want to be an artist someday. 00:06:06.240 --> 00:06:09.199 And my grandfather turned around to me and said, Why do you want to be an artist, boy? 00:06:09.360 --> 00:06:11.439 Artists don't make any money until you're dead. 00:06:11.680 --> 00:06:13.279 And I turned around and went, hmm. 00:06:13.759 --> 00:06:21.680 And my grandfather's one of those people that is basically, if you haven't made a million dollars by the time you're 40, you've failed in life. 00:06:21.839 --> 00:06:23.920 That's his kind of mentality. 00:06:24.079 --> 00:06:27.920 And I like all of my cousins are doctors and lawyers and stuff like that. 00:06:28.079 --> 00:06:29.519 Like they they do that sort of thing. 00:06:29.600 --> 00:06:30.480 That's their world. 00:06:30.720 --> 00:06:31.759 That's what they're growing up in. 00:06:32.000 --> 00:06:32.319 Yeah. 00:06:32.720 --> 00:06:37.360 Whereas I was also the only one in my family homeschooled for my like extended family. 00:06:37.519 --> 00:06:41.120 My sister was also homeschooled, and we just enjoyed doing that. 00:06:41.519 --> 00:06:52.079 When we spoke, you said that the homeschooling had probably the biggest impact on you simply because the fact that I think in your words when we spoke, it taught you you had to learn how to learn. 00:06:52.319 --> 00:06:54.079 It taught me how to learn anything. 00:06:54.160 --> 00:07:04.399 I very quickly discovered as I moved into my own realm of college and university that I'm very different in my own way of learning how to learn. 00:07:04.480 --> 00:07:06.560 I can learn anything I need to. 00:07:06.720 --> 00:07:13.360 And I think that's what sort of built Creative Flare Up itself was in school and people I talk to, they're always put down. 00:07:13.439 --> 00:07:18.800 When they're thrown into the university environment, they're thrown off because they don't have dedicated structure like they did in school. 00:07:19.040 --> 00:07:21.040 School is designed to teach you the answer. 00:07:21.199 --> 00:07:26.000 It's designed to teach

you how to not solve the problem, but just find the answer. 00:07:26.160 --> 00:07:29.759 They don't really care how you get to it, as long as it's done their way, their fashion. 00:07:29.920 --> 00:07:34.560 Being homeschooled, I was always taught to completely think outside the box. 00:07:34.720 --> 00:07:39.600 And my father has a great analogy for this of when we were growing up, we'd always renovate houses and stuff. 00:07:39.680 --> 00:07:43.680 And being a little kid my age, I just want to go dig a hole somewhere and stuff like that. 00:07:43.920 --> 00:07:48.240 And my dad had this great analogy of when I was really young, or he'd asked me to give him a hand. 00:07:48.319 --> 00:07:49.920 I was so happy to give him a hand. 00:07:50.079 --> 00:07:52.800 But he'd tell me to dig the hole right here. 00:07:53.040 --> 00:07:54.240 And I wouldn't do it. 00:07:54.319 --> 00:07:58.560 I'd instead I'd go and dig the hole over here, but it would be the best bloody hole you've ever seen. 00:07:58.800 --> 00:08:04.480 So I do things in my own way, but they're one of the best things that I can actually put my energy and focus into. 00:08:04.639 --> 00:08:07.040 Because I'm not interested in just solving a problem. 00:08:07.120 --> 00:08:10.560 I'm focused on solving the problem and the things that I'm interested in. 00:08:10.720 --> 00:08:12.240 So I found that really helped me. 00:08:12.319 --> 00:08:12.480 Yeah. 00:08:12.879 --> 00:08:14.720 So what does that look like in homeschooling? 00:08:14.959 --> 00:08:23.040 Presumably you have to do all the other maths, English, those things, but you were getting to more choose the avenues that you wanted to explore more. 00:08:23.360 --> 00:08:23.600 Yeah. 00:08:23.680 --> 00:08:27.040 So so I've done all three realms of home education. 00:08:27.199 --> 00:08:31.279 So there's three realms of unschooled, homeschooled, home educated. 00:08:31.519 --> 00:08:37.279 So when I was really young, it was unschooling, which in Australia is very one of those things that's really dumb, it's very lovely. 00:08:37.440 --> 00:08:42.960 And as a kid, you get to choose your passions and your interests, and you get to pursue those the nth degree. 00:08:43.120 --> 00:08:50.000 Homeschooling is where your parents teach you based on course books and stuff like that, and you still get to pursue your passions and interests. 00:08:50.080 --> 00:08:52.559 Like when I was like nine years old, I had an interest in clouds. 00:08:52.639 --> 00:08:55.200 So my parents taught me every book there is on clouds. 00:08:55.279 --> 00:08:56.240 And it was fascinating. 00:08:56.399 --> 00:08:58.639 So I got to learn all these things I was interested in. 00:08:58.799 --> 00:09:02.639 I've never had a passion or interest just frowned upon by my family. 00:09:02.720 --> 00:09:03.279 I love that. 00:09:03.440 --> 00:09:05.759 And then the third rung is home educated. 00:09:06.000 --> 00:09:14.960 So very luckily, home education is basically where

you're in a nice little group of maybe three or four other kids your age, and you're all being taught by somebody online. 00:09:15.279 --> 00:09:17.759 You've got a course, you've got a structure, you've got exams. 00:09:17.919 --> 00:09:22.879 So I still did my IGCSEs, they did my science, my math, all those sorts of things, my history. 00:09:23.039 --> 00:09:24.720 And that was actually run by Cambridge. 00:09:24.799 --> 00:09:29.200 So Cambridge have their own home education platform, which was really interesting for me. 00:09:29.279 --> 00:09:30.480 And I managed to do that. 00:09:30.639 --> 00:09:34.000 And then, but still again, I still had my own interests, my own passions. 00:09:34.080 --> 00:09:35.600 I was interested in entrepreneurship. 00:09:35.679 --> 00:09:36.799 I was interested in art. 00:09:36.960 --> 00:09:38.720 I was really interested in psychology. 00:09:38.879 --> 00:09:50.559 My parents all the time were like, okay, you can do whatever you want, as long as you do the basic things, as long as you get your maths, your science, your basics, your English, get those done, then focus as much energy on your passions as you want. 00:09:50.639 --> 00:09:52.080 So I found that really helped me. 00:09:52.399 --> 00:09:59.039 So there you go, you're starting to see these things that have developed into creative flair, the psychology, the art, the all those. 00:09:59.279 --> 00:10:02.320 So am I right in thinking you taught yourself programming as well? 00:10:02.639 --> 00:10:03.360 A little bit, yeah. 00:10:03.440 --> 00:10:03.679 Yeah. 00:10:03.759 --> 00:10:07.120 So I like over the years does developed creative flair. 00:10:07.360 --> 00:10:10.240 I learned how to do, you know, the most basics of coding. 00:10:11.120 --> 00:10:12.399 Bring these sorts of things up. 00:10:12.559 --> 00:10:14.879 By no means am I a grade eight pick up. 00:10:15.600 --> 00:10:18.960 I can throw together a program pretty decently, which works in my favor. 00:10:19.200 --> 00:10:28.000 And then the release of AI made all of that life a little bit easier to basically do the basics, and then our own creativity can design the more interesting side of things. 00:10:28.399 --> 00:10:32.720 So you did a lot of this in Australia, but then moved back to the UK, am I right? 00:10:33.039 --> 00:10:40.639 Yes, I did most of my homeschooling in Australia, but none of my art or anything really took off until I was in England. 00:10:40.799 --> 00:10:44.480 So I was born in England, and then I moved to Australia when I was two. 00:10:44.720 --> 00:10:46.720 My sister was born in Australia. 00:10:46.960 --> 00:10:53.679 We spent the next 10 years in Australia, and then we came back here and we just darted all around the country. 00:10:53.840 --> 00:10:59.279 My dad finding different works, just doing that sort of thing, moving house and just being homeschooled, traveling along. 00:10:59.360 --> 00:11:01.600 It was always good fun, just living life. 00:11:01.759 --> 00:11:04.960 And then we settled up somewhere in Lancashire. 00:11:05.120 --> 00:11:09.120 And then when I was about 15 or 16, it was time for me to go to college. 00:11:09.279 --> 00:11:12.080 I turned around and said, I want to experience socialization. 00:11:12.240 --> 00:11:15.679 I wasn't so interested in the homeschooling mechanism so much at that point. 00:11:15.840 --> 00:11:17.200 So I went off to college. 00:11:17.279 --> 00:11:19.600 I did a B tech in art and design. 00:11:19.679 --> 00:11:24.240 And that was really my sort of first taste of actually art's really cool. 00:11:24.480 --> 00:11:29.200 But I then managed to do all my own art things, my own painting, my own drawings, my own sketchings. 00:11:29.279 --> 00:11:32.639 I learned how art really helped me and other people. 00:11:32.720 --> 00:11:33.840 And it was interesting for me. 00:11:34.240 --> 00:11:36.399 You were doing commissions as well for people, weren't you? 00:11:37.279 --> 00:11:37.519 Yeah. 00:11:37.759 --> 00:11:42.799 I very quickly landed myself into the sort of commercial art area. 00:11:43.039 --> 00:11:46.480 And I was trained as a realistic oil portrait painter. 00:11:46.639 --> 00:11:50.559 And I started doing commissions and basically being like, okay, this is a great way to make a bit of money. 00:11:50.720 --> 00:11:51.519 This is fantastic. 00:11:51.759 --> 00:11:53.519 Do what I love, do this, do that. 00:11:53.679 --> 00:12:02.000 And I got stuck in this loop of what people would call contract work, living paycheck to paycheck, on that kind of version of, okay, here's a commission. 00:12:02.080 --> 00:12:03.919 Then you get paid, and you've got to wait for the next one. 00:12:04.000 --> 00:12:04.879 Then you get a commission. 00:12:05.039 --> 00:12:10.159 And it was this horrible circle that I started to not enjoy because a couple of commissions went really bad, really wrong. 00:12:10.320 --> 00:12:14.240 And the people I dealt with really made my life hard as an artist. 00:12:14.399 --> 00:12:17.440 And I would go on YouTube basically being, there's got to be a better way to do this. 00:12:17.519 --> 00:12:19.279 There's got to be a better idea. 00:12:19.440 --> 00:12:23.679 And then it was, oh, I want to be able to paint what I want to paint, not what I get told to do. 00:12:23.759 --> 00:12:26.480 I'm not so good when I get told what to do anyway. 00:12:27.360 --> 00:12:28.799 Digging the hole in the right place. 00:12:29.039 --> 00:12:29.840 Exactly. 00:12:30.080 --> 00:12:36.000 So when I got to do what I wanted, it worked out so fantastically, rather than here's a commission. 00:12:36.320 --> 00:12:39.440 But this is still pretty mind-blowing stuff for someone of what age are you? 00:12:39.679 --> 00:12:41.440 15, 16, getting commercial commissions. 00:12:41.600 --> 00:12:42.799 17, 17 at that point. 00:12:42.879 --> 00:12:43.039 Yeah. 00:12:43.279 --> 00:12:47.200 I mean, how does that come about for a 15, 16-year-old? 00:12:47.360 -->

00:12:53.679 There's artists now probably of all ages listening to this going, how the hell did this 15, 16-year-old get these commissions? 00:12:53.840 --> 00:12:55.360 I know, even I don't remember. 00:12:55.519 --> 00:13:00.240 I learned very quickly, very early on, I was really interested in social media. 00:13:00.320 --> 00:13:06.240 I'd never been so online or in the social media realm until I started doing art. 00:13:06.399 --> 00:13:11.919 And I watched basically 10,000 hours of YouTube videos on how to do something. 00:13:12.159 --> 00:13:18.559 And I became really interested in, I know how sales work, I know how marketing works, I know I can sell myself. 00:13:18.720 --> 00:13:20.559 It's time for me to sell my paintings. 00:13:20.879 --> 00:13:22.799 Is that a result of the home education? 00:13:22.960 --> 00:13:27.919 The fact that you were already on in this online sort of world a little bit, probably more than most? 00:13:28.320 --> 00:13:29.120 Probably, yeah. 00:13:29.279 --> 00:13:32.000 I knew how learning from home worked. 00:13:32.320 --> 00:13:36.159 And at this sort of age point in my life, COVID had hit as well. 00:13:36.399 --> 00:13:37.759 So everybody was at home. 00:13:37.919 --> 00:13:39.840 Everybody was trying to learn more online. 00:13:40.240 --> 00:13:43.759 I was really beneficial and I knew how online education worked. 00:13:43.840 --> 00:13:45.039 I'd done it my entire life. 00:13:45.200 --> 00:13:49.440 Literally, the first maybe two months of going to college, COVID had hit. 00:13:49.519 --> 00:13:50.639 And I was like, damn it. 00:13:50.799 --> 00:13:54.879 And everything moved back online and I didn't get to socialize again because it was online. 00:13:55.440 --> 00:14:01.919 And yeah, I mean Was that tough for you, bearing in mind you wanted that socialization after such a long time of a little bit. 00:14:02.240 --> 00:14:05.440 But I found it interesting anyway, because there were people I could talk. 00:14:05.759 --> 00:14:06.799 It was the exact same. 00:14:07.039 --> 00:14:10.320 It was blink of an eye, back to it being normal. 00:14:10.480 --> 00:14:15.600 And then afterwards I did a foundation year, which was great, and it was in person, and I enjoyed that a lot more. 00:14:15.759 --> 00:14:20.159 That was one of the best art education things I'd ever done was during my foundation year. 00:14:20.480 --> 00:14:21.120 Why? 00:14:21.759 --> 00:14:26.399 It was so impactful on me in so many different ways. 00:14:26.720 --> 00:14:31.279 Because my main tutor, Jamie Holman, he's a very successful artist. 00:14:31.440 --> 00:14:33.759 He's done an amazing art career. 00:14:33.919 --> 00:14:36.879 And I also had another art tutor, and it was Joe. 00:14:37.120 --> 00:14:48.320 And their sort of way of explaining things to all of us doing it foundation year was okay, you've either fucked up at some point in your life doing your education, you're now here because you need to do it. 00:14:48.559 --> 00:14:52.960

Or you're trying to reach for something a little bit higher and you want to grasp the basic skills. 00:14:53.120 --> 00:14:58.320 So I was really aiming for, okay, Goldsmiths University was like the goal for it. 00:14:58.480 --> 00:15:00.320 That required a foundation year. 00:15:00.559 --> 00:15:05.200 Within doing that, I learned how the art world works a lot more. 00:15:05.440 --> 00:15:10.000 So Jamie Holman ran his own gallery as well with another artist. 00:15:10.159 --> 00:15:23.039 So I got to experience all these different things of he'd hire me to go and transport artworks, work with somebody else to like hang the artworks, do the framings, do this, learn how his practice worked, we'd get to go on trips, we'd get to do this. 00:15:23.200 --> 00:15:27.039 I never got to do a lot of that while being in college, and we were immersed in it. 00:15:27.120 --> 00:15:32.320 So I found Foundation Year was so immersing for me in this entire art career. 00:15:32.399 --> 00:15:36.320 And at the very end of it, we got to put on our huge sort of degree show. 00:15:36.480 --> 00:15:37.600 It was amazing. 00:15:37.759 --> 00:15:44.000 And while I was in Foundation Year, it was when I rebranded Creative Flair as its thing. 00:15:44.159 --> 00:15:53.279 So when I was about 16, 17 in college, I'd already created the base foundation of Creative Flair, which at that time was known as Carter Art. 00:15:53.440 --> 00:15:54.879 And a blog, right? 00:15:55.120 --> 00:15:55.519 Yeah, yeah. 00:15:55.600 --> 00:15:56.240 It was a blog. 00:15:56.320 --> 00:15:58.080 It was here's artist resources. 00:15:58.159 --> 00:16:00.960 Nobody was putting artist resources online at that point in time. 00:16:01.120 --> 00:16:02.320 We were the first ones to do it. 00:16:02.399 --> 00:16:04.399 We'd pay writers, we'd do this, we'd do that. 00:16:04.480 --> 00:16:06.320 And it sort of built itself up a little bit. 00:16:06.559 --> 00:16:08.879 But why did you feel compelled to do that? 00:16:09.120 --> 00:16:12.399 Because already in this instinct of already trying to help other people out. 00:16:12.480 --> 00:16:22.480 When you're looking at yourself, looking at your art career, wanting to move yourself forward to goldsmiths, but yet you've still got this art-philanthropic nature, or well, it wasn't about me. 00:16:22.639 --> 00:16:24.000 It wasn't about me at all. 00:16:24.159 --> 00:16:29.519 It was, despite the name being named after myself of Carter Art, it wasn't about me. 00:16:29.600 --> 00:16:32.559 It was, I saw everybody else in my college. 00:16:32.799 --> 00:16:38.399 We always had to write artist research, but there wasn't any good things online at all. 00:16:38.480 --> 00:16:39.360 It was horrible. 00:16:39.679 --> 00:16:45.279 So it was a matter of, okay, if I'm struggling with this, there's somebody else out there struggling with it as well. 00:16:45.440 --> 00:16:54.639 So I built up the whole thing of we blog about art, I'd take their artist resources, I'd pay them for it, we'd upload it, people would read it, we'd then pay them per thousand reads they got. 00:16:54.799 --> 00:16:59.840 And that was immediately just it clicked the moment COVID hit and it took the hell off. 00:17:00.480 --> 00:17:04.559 But again, you're that's your knowledge of sales, your online skills. 00:17:04.720 --> 00:17:08.480 Because I'm sat there going, oh, you're getting pays per clicks and things like that. 00:17:08.559 --> 00:17:11.279 And I know I'm sounding like a dinosaur, James, but I am. 00:17:11.440 --> 00:17:13.759 You're 23 and I'm 45 years old. 00:17:14.000 --> 00:17:30.000 But this is still interesting as a fact that you are, I don't want to sound patronizing, but you're doing all this at such a young age, and there's artists out there and creatives and business people, entrepreneurs that would probably want these same skill sets that are like, what well it was that's the thing. 00:17:30.079 --> 00:17:31.759 It was an interest, it was passion. 00:17:32.000 --> 00:17:35.920 I've never pursued the money, I've never pursued the fame. 00:17:36.160 --> 00:17:38.799 That's always just been a bypass of it. 00:17:38.960 --> 00:17:42.559 My parents always said, Do what you love, you'll never work a day in your life. 00:17:42.640 --> 00:17:43.759 The world is your oyster. 00:17:43.920 --> 00:17:46.079 As long as you're enjoying life, you're rich. 00:17:46.559 --> 00:17:47.119 Do you believe that? 00:17:47.599 --> 00:17:50.799 Because I think when you do the thing that you love, sometimes you often work bloody harder. 00:17:51.279 --> 00:17:52.079 You do, you do. 00:17:52.319 --> 00:17:59.680 I worked on the Creative Flare for about seven years before it made me a single penny. 00:18:00.160 --> 00:18:06.319 Because the entire time that we'd pay people to write articles, I would bleed money because we'd work with AdSense. 00:18:06.640 --> 00:18:12.160 And then eventually it just bled money for it because I didn't have that understanding of how business worked. 00:18:12.640 --> 00:18:15.519 I didn't fully integrate the business mindset. 00:18:15.759 --> 00:18:19.839 And then, you know, I had to work part-time jobs, I kept creative flare going. 00:18:19.920 --> 00:18:22.000 I it was always the passion. 00:18:22.240 --> 00:18:29.200 And even through university, I'd juggle working part-time as a gymnastics coach with full-time university education. 00:18:29.359 --> 00:18:31.200 I did fine art and history of art. 00:18:31.279 --> 00:18:32.480 It's a dual honors degree. 00:18:32.559 --> 00:18:38.720 So double the degree, double the stress, double the flipping workload, and then also trying to make creative flair into its thing. 00:18:38.880 --> 00:18:45.920 Every single Thursday, Friday, Saturday evening, I would be out in London interviewing artists, talking to artists. 00:18:46.079 --> 00:18:48.400 Again, I through three years of uni. 00:18:48.640 --> 00:18:51.440 For the first two years of uni, it didn't make any penny for

me. 00:18:51.599 --> 00:18:54.480 It was just bleeding money from my job from working gymnastics. 00:18:54.640 --> 00:19:07.680 I was living off£300 a month working gymnastics coaching and funneling all of that into trying to date, trying to live, trying to afford a kebab every Thursday evening, and then the rest of it just went on Creative Flair. 00:19:07.920 --> 00:19:08.640 It was all a bit. 00:19:09.839 --> 00:19:14.720 And was there a moment where you thought, right, okay, this is something because I mean that is a hell of a lot. 00:19:14.880 --> 00:19:29.279 Am I right in thinking you made most, quite a lot of the connections in London's when you went to Goldsmiths by being quite vulnerable and quite honest, by sharing a video on your social media about how daunting it is to go and suddenly be in London at Goldsmiths, right? 00:19:29.440 --> 00:19:33.839 Yeah, in the nicest fashion, I didn't make any good connections at Goldsmiths. 00:19:34.240 --> 00:19:39.599 I know a few people, but Goldsmiths was not a golden opportunity for me. 00:19:40.400 --> 00:19:41.599 Can you say a little bit more about that? 00:19:41.680 --> 00:19:43.920 Because I think a lot of people would imagine, you know, the St. 00:19:44.079 --> 00:19:49.519 Martin's, the Goldsmiths, these these prestige art universities. 00:19:49.759 --> 00:19:50.240 Exactly. 00:19:50.559 --> 00:19:55.279 It's one of three universities in the UK that does fine art and history of art. 00:19:55.440 --> 00:19:57.119 It produced Damien Hurst. 00:19:57.279 --> 00:20:00.559 It produced so many incredible creative people. 00:20:00.960 --> 00:20:08.000 But even if you were to look at the interviews of Damien Hurst at Goldsmiths, he'd tell you exactly that Goldsmith didn't make him who he is. 00:20:08.079 --> 00:20:09.039 He made who he is. 00:20:09.200 --> 00:20:10.640 I'm the exact same boat. 00:20:10.880 --> 00:20:13.920 I'm not saying the same sort of thing, but Goldsmith didn't make me who I was. 00:20:14.079 --> 00:20:19.440 Goldsmiths was this annoying thing on the side as an excuse for me to be in London. 00:20:19.599 --> 00:20:26.480 Based up in Lancashire, it was a very small art community, very small art world that I didn't interconnect with very well. 00:20:26.640 --> 00:20:28.480 I wanted something bigger, I wanted something better. 00:20:28.720 --> 00:20:33.119 I moved down to London, I got to experience art shows, art fairs, everything art. 00:20:33.200 --> 00:20:40.160 I went to galleries, I set up microphones, I interviewed people, I would hire my friend down at there at the point to come and just film me. 00:20:40.240 --> 00:20:43.519 I'd find other people to come and film me while I interviewed artists. 00:20:43.599 --> 00:20:46.960 And that was the sort of thing of university didn't give me any of that. 00:20:47.200 --> 00:20:48.640 I made all of that happen. 00:20:48.880 --> 00:20:56.559 But it was a very tricky world for me because being homeschooled, socialization isn't exactly my strong suit. 00:20:56.880 --> 00:21:00.480 But in the back of my mind, there's always something going, oh my god, what am I doing wrong? 00:21:00.640 --> 00:21:05.119 I don't enjoy teamwork very well or all these skills or group projects. 00:21:05.440 --> 00:21:09.200 Every group project I did, I would somehow find a way to do it myself. 00:21:09.359 --> 00:21:24.400 And I enjoyed that more than work with people because very quickly, like my first week of being down in London at university, I was out of the pub with a bunch of people, and this random girl came up to me and was just like, you should be ashamed of yourself. 00:21:24.480 --> 00:21:27.920 You should go kill yourself, you should jump off a bridge, you're the devil. 00:21:28.160 --> 00:21:31.519 And I didn't understand why, what any of this was happening. 00:21:31.680 --> 00:21:40.559 And at that point, people already knew me slightly on social media, but the reason I should go and off myself is because I'm straight, white, and male. 00:21:40.720 --> 00:21:46.880 I'm the modern day devil going to an art school as a straight white guy doing art. 00:21:47.599 --> 00:21:48.720 I'm not interested in anything else. 00:21:51.359 --> 00:21:51.839 Exactly. 00:21:52.240 --> 00:21:53.920 And I didn't know what to say. 00:21:54.000 --> 00:21:55.200 I didn't know what anything was. 00:21:55.359 --> 00:21:59.759 I was like, and unfortunately, Goldsmiths has that kind of reputation of. 00:22:00.559 --> 00:22:02.720 having those sorts of people around it. 00:22:02.799 --> 00:22:04.319 So I stuck in my own lane. 00:22:04.400 --> 00:22:11.440 I did what I knew was more interesting for me rather than like you were already firing on all cylinders with the stuff in the background. 00:22:11.519 --> 00:22:19.519 And like you say, university and goldsmiths, don't you write, it's a lovely qualification to have, but it does sound like it was more of a hindrance to you than it was. 00:22:20.319 --> 00:22:20.799 It really was. 00:22:20.960 --> 00:22:23.839 After my first year, I turned around to my dad and I said, Dad, I want to leave uni. 00:22:24.079 --> 00:22:24.880 I'm not enjoying it. 00:22:24.960 --> 00:22:25.680 This sucks. 00:22:25.920 --> 00:22:26.559 Really sucks. 00:22:26.640 --> 00:22:27.359 I want to leave. 00:22:27.599 --> 00:22:31.119 And my dad just turned around to me and was just like, no, you you've done your first year. 00:22:31.279 --> 00:22:32.079 You're doing really well. 00:22:32.160 --> 00:22:33.039 I'm so proud of you. 00:22:33.200 --> 00:22:35.359 Look how far you're going already. 00:22:35.599 --> 00:22:38.559 If you can get through your first year, you can get through your second year. 00:22:38.720 --> 00:22:41.359 By the time you got through your second year, you're practically done. 00:22:41.440 --> 00:22:43.519 You'll it'll be over in a blink of an eye. 00:22:43.759 --> 00:22:46.640 And I really was like, oh my God, I don't want to do this. 00:22:46.720 --> 00:22:47.599

I don't like it. 00:22:47.759 --> 00:22:53.519 But then I was like, okay, if I leave uni, then I'm not going to have the funding to be able to live down in uni. 00:22:53.759 --> 00:22:58.240 So I'll have to live back up to Lancashire, but I there's no art scene there for me to enjoy. 00:22:58.480 --> 00:23:05.200 So university was my entire excuse of here's the money for housing that university would and the government would provide. 00:23:05.279 --> 00:23:06.480 I can live down in London. 00:23:06.559 --> 00:23:10.559 Every single day I'd be out working on a video, working with people, working to do this. 00:23:10.720 --> 00:23:14.160 I snuck my way into art fairs like the London Art Fair. 00:23:14.319 --> 00:23:28.880 I snuck my way in there in 2024 and they had no idea who the hell I was and I made one of the most successful art videos of the year for them for the London Art Fair just by this random kid going in with a little camera and stuff. 00:23:29.039 --> 00:23:31.680 And it was good fun and London is where I need to be. 00:23:31.839 --> 00:23:34.960 I made connections with people and that was the sort of enjoyment for me. 00:23:35.200 --> 00:23:36.240 Can I ask you a question? 00:23:36.319 --> 00:23:45.920 I mean I know you're doing fine art and the history of art but you're very focused on the business the creative flair is still going but what sort of work are you creating? 00:23:46.240 --> 00:23:50.960 The work like as an artist your artwork that you have to create for your fine art degree. 00:23:51.279 --> 00:23:52.960 God I mean I'm interested. 00:23:53.359 --> 00:23:55.839 Because it sounds like it's taken a bit of a back seat. 00:23:56.240 --> 00:24:08.160 It had it really had but I also discovered in the nicest fashion a lot of the other people doing my degree didn't have the same work ethic that I did. 00:24:08.480 --> 00:24:13.279 I come from a family of a very intense work ethic of passion. 00:24:13.440 --> 00:24:15.920 And as long as you're doing what you love, you're not working. 00:24:16.079 --> 00:24:21.359 It was always very natural for me to just like I I sifted my way through college. 00:24:21.440 --> 00:24:31.759 I sifted my way through foundation I quite easily did my way through uni because the work level that they required was me basically just in a nice way. 00:24:33.119 --> 00:24:34.240 I'd just get it done. 00:24:34.480 --> 00:24:39.680 And the work I would create was I had about four different tutors. 00:24:40.079 --> 00:24:47.279 Each one of them have their own mindset of what art should be, how art should be and what art you should be creating. 00:24:47.440 --> 00:24:52.160 I got stuck with a tutor that would turn around to me and say your work is too commercial. 00:24:52.319 --> 00:24:57.039 It needs to be more from within you need to have more of a a story based around it. 00:24:57.119 --> 00:25:02.960 So I'd then create that and then another tutor would look at it and go, no, but then it wouldn't sell or it

wouldn't do this. 00:25:03.119 --> 00:25:09.759 And I'm just stuck in such a back and forth tug of war that I decided to just stick in my own lane. 00:25:09.920 --> 00:25:18.640 I decided to dig the bloody hole where I wanted to dig the damn hole and create the works I wanted to create and prove to everybody that what I'm doing can be successful. 00:25:18.880 --> 00:25:26.880 I've always fought the age narrative when I was young and I launched Code of Flair everybody was like oh but you're too young you haven't experienced the artwork you don't know what you're talking about. 00:25:27.119 --> 00:25:33.519 Every day through uni, every day through college all these sorts of things anybody reach out to the first thing would be like oh but you're too young. 00:25:33.680 --> 00:25:34.880 Oh but you shouldn't be doing this. 00:25:34.960 --> 00:25:36.079 You're too young to do that. 00:25:36.240 --> 00:25:45.039 And it's it's insane the amount of you know bias that age has on you when you're trying to do something and people look at you and go, oh but you're too young. 00:25:45.599 --> 00:26:11.759 Especially with the information that you're providing if people give you I mean this is what I'm going to be the first to say it James I was like where does this young guy get all this incredible information from exactly and that's the thing everybody wants to know isn't it and I did a great talk on this about how I do actually get a lot of this information and I turned around to everybody in this big talk that I did run by the first Art Pulse, Art Pulse London, run by Megan, absolutely incredible person. 00:26:12.000 --> 00:26:18.960 Again she's 20, 21 something, and she doesn't have to fight the age narrative anymore, which I love and she's doing fantastically. 00:26:19.119 --> 00:26:27.519 But in this talk that I did, I would say the biggest thing that you will struggle with in the art world and in your art career is thinking that you can do it all by yourself. 00:26:27.759 --> 00:26:30.319 I wouldn't be where I am just by doing it myself. 00:26:30.400 --> 00:26:36.079 I've had amazing connections I've had amazing artists help me in ways they might not have known were helping me. 00:26:36.319 --> 00:26:40.960 For example, I would talk to somebody and I'd say look I'm not the hero of any story. 00:26:41.200 --> 00:26:43.519 All I am is a communication guide. 00:26:43.759 --> 00:27:00.559 If there's something that you're struggling with in your art career or your practice or something that you're doing at the moment, if I don't have the answer instantly, I will 100% know somebody that knows somebody who has been through the exact same thing you've been through and they know how to get out of it. 00:27:00.720 --> 00:27:11.039 So I will go and work out how they did it and I will put it in a consumable format of me talking down the end of a phone to you and answer this this question that nobody understands. 00:27:11.279 --> 00:27:13.839 Because otherwise they don't know how it works. 00:27:14.079 --> 00:27:17.200 Artists themselves aren't inherently social creatures. 00:27:17.440 --> 00:27:32.480 We we just want to create we might rely on a gallery a gallery has the business model but then they're stuck with this this loop, this never-ending loop that's how artists have always been so I would learn from the artists about the issues they're going through. 00:27:32.640 --> 00:27:36.240 I'd then learn and research from other people how to solve these issues. 00:27:36.400 --> 00:27:39.519 I'm also very lucky in my my partner's very interested in art. 00:27:39.680 --> 00:27:48.400 We talk about art all the time anyway we learn how different galleries and their models are working with dissect these kind of things it'd be really interesting. 00:27:48.559 --> 00:27:59.920 So we just learn what's going wrong oh look here's the solution there you go that's as simple as it is it doesn't need to be overcomplicated it's problem solving isn't it exactly it doesn't need to be overcomplicated. 00:28:00.400 --> 00:28:06.720 The world makes it complicated it does but why do you feel so compelled to do that for everybody? 00:28:07.119 --> 00:28:14.079 Because it's fun and because I enjoy it and because helping people makes me happy and that is a great answer. 00:28:14.240 --> 00:28:23.519 And I I like I that is something that I like helping people as well I like being a part of social things and what you're doing is absolutely fantastic. 00:28:24.640 --> 00:28:28.880 That's the thing that makes people like us so invested in what we do. 00:28:28.960 --> 00:28:34.400 You know it's like for the first seven years Creative Flat didn't work the way that I wanted it to work. 00:28:34.720 --> 00:28:37.200 I wasn't making any money from it. 00:28:37.359 --> 00:29:03.200 I was working so much as a uni student and as a gymnastics coach and just pouring my finances into it I was like oh my God what am I going to do when I leave uni I started as I started really finding a sort of very depressive standpoint and really struggling being in London at a certain point about just over a year ago now pretty much I was this close to selling the entirety of Creative Flair and not even selling it so somebody else could use it. 00:29:03.279 --> 00:29:17.920 I had a fantastic offer of somebody to literally dismantle the entirety of Creative Flair and I was like okay and I really could pushed you to that point though to think was it just too much like you say to do on your own or it wasn't so much doing it on my own. 00:29:18.079 --> 00:29:27.599 It was more of I don't know how much more of this I can keep pushing and using energy of and I'd unfortunately had a really rubbish year. 00:29:27.839 --> 00:29:30.640 I'd just lost my best friend of 20 years. 00:29:30.880 --> 00:29:38.319 My partner was diagnosed with two brain tumors nothing was good in my life at that point I was really struggling. 00:29:38.480 --> 00:29:48.000 I was living in London

and it was just not a good scene I was living just outside of London so it took me an hour and a half just to go and meet people it was just this horrible dynamic. 00:29:48.160 --> 00:30:06.480 And I turned around to Carla my partner and was just like okay I can keep going at gymnastics and gymnastics was depressing the hell out of me because I was dealing with a very very annoying coworker that was just trying to make my life miserable basically she was a horrible human being and I needed to get out of this place. 00:30:06.640 --> 00:30:09.279 But at the same point I needed money to survive. 00:30:09.519 --> 00:30:12.559 So I turned around to Carla and said I'm going to sell creative flair. 00:30:12.799 --> 00:30:14.480 I'm going to go back to gymnastics. 00:30:14.720 --> 00:30:16.400 I think I can just keep going with it. 00:30:16.640 --> 00:30:30.400 And luckily her parents actually saw how like down I was and understood it and they got her and I a gift to go and see Tony Robbins were for this unleash the power within seminar in Germany and they said just do this. 00:30:30.480 --> 00:30:42.079 Don't make any decisions yet just go and do this see what you do explain who Tony Robbins is for the people that may not know if you don't know Tony Robbins he's basically a motivational speaker in his essence. 00:30:42.160 --> 00:30:50.000 He was one of the first people to really go on stage, do coaching talks really motivate people to do and follow their dreams. 00:30:50.160 --> 00:30:52.880 And at this point in my life I was really struggling to follow my dream. 00:30:52.960 --> 00:31:00.160 I knew what my dream was I knew what my passion was I just wasn't being able to make it a reality because the business mindset hadn't clicked for me yet. 00:31:00.480 --> 00:31:10.000 So we went and did this it was a four-day very intensive you're up at seven you go to bed at 10 kind of thing. 00:31:10.079 --> 00:31:21.359 It was really intense and on the very last day they spoke about business for about an hour or so and I realized oh crap I could use this. 00:31:21.519 --> 00:31:26.400 I opened my notebook and jotted every single thing down everything that I could possibly imagine. 00:31:26.640 --> 00:31:30.640 And part of the other thing is you walk on fire barefoot and stuff. 00:31:30.720 --> 00:31:33.599 You build this mentality that is unbreakable. 00:31:33.759 --> 00:31:40.319 And I came back from that and I turned around to Carla and just said I'm going to give this one last chance here's what I'm going to do. 00:31:40.480 --> 00:31:42.160 I'm going to go back to gymnastics. 00:31:42.319 --> 00:31:45.920 I'm going to build up my finances I'm going to invest everything I got in creative flat. 00:31:46.079 --> 00:31:53.519 And before I even finished my sentence she turned around to me and said no you're fucking not she said I'm not letting you back to that desiccated place of gymnastics. 00:31:53.759 --> 00:31:55.920 I see how depressed you get working there. 00:31:56.079 --> 00:31:57.920 So she turned around to me and said I've got you. 00:31:58.079 --> 00:31:59.119 Don't worry I've got it. 00:31:59.279 --> 00:32:03.680 Wow so she it was like a couple of months we agreed on to try and make it really work. 00:32:03.839 --> 00:32:12.160 And so I took every penny to my name which at that point was about 3,000 pounds and I threw everything that I had into creative flare and said this is going to fucking work. 00:32:12.240 --> 00:32:13.680 I thought what does that look like? 00:32:13.839 --> 00:32:23.440 Where does that 3,000 pounds go when you're sat there going I've got to make this work literally just say shout out to Carla for being an absolute wonder woman. 00:32:23.599 --> 00:32:30.720 What a woman I know I know couldn't imagine just back you that much that that's the dream as well James. 00:32:31.039 --> 00:32:36.000 Exactly and like we're still going through that whole brain chewer point in time at that doing that time. 00:32:36.319 --> 00:32:41.119 At the moment we're good we're looking golden but at that point it was we don't know what the future's leading for us. 00:32:41.440 --> 00:32:45.839 Jesus even more credit to her than good you guys must have been going through the ringer. 00:32:46.000 --> 00:32:47.119 So sorry back to the question. 00:32:47.440 --> 00:33:00.079 Incredible at three grand literally goes on software licensing programming building the infrastructure to make this work because if I don't have a website I don't have a platform what else am I doing? 00:33:00.160 --> 00:33:06.160 So I spent three grand building the infrastructure that I'd always dreamt of that I've always needed to make work. 00:33:06.319 --> 00:33:24.000 And the moment I had the money in the background I made that commitment I made that commitment I invested everything I had the infrastructure all I needed was the idea to be able to one make money to help people because I decided very quickly the last thing I was ever going to do was pursue just money. 00:33:24.160 --> 00:33:28.319 If I can make money while helping people I am the happiest little cookie on the planet. 00:33:28.400 --> 00:33:36.559 I'm very happy but I need to be able to help somebody so I thought okay what's a really different idea I don't know where it came from. 00:33:36.640 --> 00:33:52.799 I have absolutely no idea where it came from something clicked in my head and went billboards, art, art, billboards, adverts okay I put out this campaign thing and I said I'm going to put 15 artists on 30 billboards for a week in central London. 00:33:53.119 --> 00:33:54.720 And where are we on the timeline? 00:33:54.799 --> 00:34:07.440 I'm just so is this after you've second year of you second year of uni, you've attempted to sell Creative Flair, you're not gone it this is the point that you've reinvested and the billboards come after you've gone I've done the investment in the infrastructure. 00:34:07.680 --> 00:34:17.920 Yep yep so I had

invested in the infrastructure and I went okay now I've got that I need the idea that makes the money because the whole idea of build it and they will come is is a lie. 00:34:18.159 --> 00:34:23.039 You can build the greatest thing on the planet but if you can't sell it it's not happening. 00:34:23.199 --> 00:34:25.519 If people don't know about it it's not happening. 00:34:25.760 --> 00:34:28.320 It's like you can you need to repeat yourself. 00:34:28.400 --> 00:34:31.519 You need to be on a loop you need to make people aware of it. 00:34:31.760 --> 00:34:43.599 And I very quickly learned this thing of if you've got a fantastic product that you've put your heart and soul into but people aren't going to then why aren't they going to? 00:34:43.679 --> 00:34:45.119 Because you're not selling it to them. 00:34:45.280 --> 00:34:58.239 Why aren't you sell why are you doing the disservice of not making sure they know about how amazing your product is so why would you not tell people how fucking awesome you are and your product is because you know it will help them. 00:34:58.320 --> 00:35:04.480 If you know and believe in your soul that it will help them then don't do the disservice by not telling them about it. 00:35:04.719 --> 00:35:11.760 And I struggled with that for a little bit of trying to sell the thing and trying to be like oh it feels salesy oh it feels sleazy. 00:35:12.079 --> 00:35:14.719 And I realize artists really struggle with this as well. 00:35:15.039 --> 00:35:17.360 If you're the last thing artists want to talk about is money. 00:35:17.599 --> 00:35:20.559 But at this point what is it you are selling? 00:35:20.880 --> 00:35:23.119 At this point I'm selling a billboard. 00:35:23.280 --> 00:35:24.880 Oh I'm wrong this is not my second year. 00:35:24.960 --> 00:35:27.280 It's my third year just my third year of uni. 00:35:27.599 --> 00:35:33.199 So literally all a year ago in five days it will be exactly a year ago that I started doing this. 00:35:33.360 --> 00:35:50.719 And I was selling a billboard for 15 artists 30 billboards and it was an application fee to throw your art into the ring to get selected by me and a couple curator friends and get selected and at this point I'm doing a collaboration with Fetch magazine run by Victoria. 00:35:51.039 --> 00:35:57.599 And what you go and contact billboard companies and say we've got this idea on billboards. 00:35:58.000 --> 00:36:05.280 Rather than Disney, Sony Paul going we're going to pay you loads of money to advertise we want to put art on your billboards. 00:36:05.599 --> 00:36:08.880 How susceptible to that were they? 00:36:09.519 --> 00:36:13.440 Good question because at that point I didn't know how to put anything on a billboard. 00:36:13.760 --> 00:36:25.199 I unfortunately well not unfortunately I did I believed in myself so much that I just needed to see if it could work before I actually made a commitment of buying out a billboard or doing this or doing that. 00:36:25.360 --> 00:36:30.800 I knew okay you can buy a billboard and put whatever you want onto it but I I had no contacts. 00:36:30.960 --> 00:36:33.280 I knew nobody about a billboard. 00:36:33.440 --> 00:36:39.360 So I started selling placements before having a billboard which was insane and I had no idea how to do it. 00:36:39.440 --> 00:36:41.280 And you could Google it and nothing would happen. 00:36:41.360 --> 00:36:55.679 Nothing would come up and I went oh my god goddamn I mean obviously you must have been a bit panicked at that point you've got applications coming in going right I've got to find this but I can't see it for the first week I was but this is the thing I wasn't panicked. 00:36:55.840 --> 00:37:00.400 Not once did I panic over it because I knew that I could get it done. 00:37:00.559 --> 00:37:03.280 I believed in myself so much that I can get this done. 00:37:03.679 --> 00:37:06.480 And I think that's Tony Robbins stuff. 00:37:06.559 --> 00:37:09.440 I mean I thought that's homeschooling I knew I could do it. 00:37:09.599 --> 00:37:12.639 I knew for a fact as long as I got my energy I can learn it. 00:37:12.719 --> 00:37:13.920 I can learn how to do it. 00:37:14.079 --> 00:37:19.760 I will know somebody in my network that knows somebody who knows somebody else to be able to make this stuff happen. 00:37:19.920 --> 00:37:22.000 And I knew in my bones I could make it work. 00:37:22.079 --> 00:37:23.679 I never panicked about it. 00:37:23.840 --> 00:37:25.599 I just went okay I can do this. 00:37:25.760 --> 00:37:33.519 And I started like really funneling myself into like making every single video about look at this opportunity, look at this, look at that. 00:37:33.679 --> 00:37:39.039 It led to the most amazing collaboration with women in art and women in art prize and that was amazing. 00:37:39.199 --> 00:37:43.760 We work so closely together now still because their entire mission is helping female artists. 00:37:43.840 --> 00:37:45.679 My entire mission is helping every artist. 00:37:45.840 --> 00:37:56.480 So we worked together so closely eventually after this first one that we did International Women's Day where we put five women on five billboards around London which was incredible as well. 00:37:56.719 --> 00:37:58.159 So sorry let's just go back. 00:37:58.320 --> 00:38:21.039 So the first time you did it you obviously you found how to get this art on billboards and you had a great response was this all contributing to the were you already in this kind of social media frenzy or was this because I I mean I'm af I'm sure I found you at like 2000 followers or something and that doesn't feel that long ago mate and it's gone about a year ago I was still under 5,000 followers. 00:38:21.280 --> 00:38:27.679 Everything took off after people realized that I wasn't trying to sell them just anything. 00:38:27.920 --> 00:38:45.119 People it really took off once I believe people discovered that I'm genuinely passionate about what I do to help giving

people opportunities the open calls the artist opportunities the grants the funding the residencies the the opportunity have your I mean how many billboards did you get in the end for these projects? 00:38:45.360 --> 00:38:47.360 We got 30 around London. 00:38:47.679 --> 00:38:54.320 Around London so the initial the the initial sales pitch was it's going to be on 30 screens so it's digital billboards. 00:38:54.400 --> 00:39:18.239 It's going to be on bus stops billboards and I don't know what they're called like home advertising yeah exactly you see those sorts of things down the street and it was going to be on a circular rotation and eventually we sold out I didn't make the biggest profit but I knew that I could make money out of it and it really clicked of okay this can keep creative flare going and I just need to put more and more energy into it. 00:39:18.400 --> 00:39:29.519 I made such a small profit on that that I had to go around myself, find artists who wanted to see their work on the billboards, schedule it for this when they were free to do that, then I had to go and take photos. 00:39:29.679 --> 00:39:32.400 At this point, I was really struggling just to throw the bus. 00:39:32.559 --> 00:39:46.079 I would take the train into central London and then I would walk to every single one of these bloody billboards every single day for that week to go and get a photo of every single one on every single one in different lighting. 00:39:46.320 --> 00:39:51.280 I did that every single day for that week I got back and I went oh my god I'm so exhausted. 00:39:51.599 --> 00:40:20.639 But it worked and it had its mishaps we went to Carl and I went to Paris like a week before the billboards were supposed to go live and I got notified saying we can't put this art on bus stops because Art on the street week was happening in the lead up to Christmas and unfortunately the launch of the new Avatar film which they had basically bought out every single digital billboard placement and advert placement in London. 00:40:20.880 --> 00:40:23.599 Well and Creative Flair couldn't beat James Cameron. 00:40:23.760 --> 00:40:27.760 I know right I'm living on 300 quid and I can't get that happening. 00:40:28.559 --> 00:40:34.960 So I just turned around and I I didn't panic but I felt so bad and I went oh my god I'm going to have to cancel the whole thing. 00:40:35.039 --> 00:40:50.639 Carla just turned around to me and went just make a video just be honest just make a video in the middle of Paris with dodgy Wi-Fi I sat down with no microphone and just said look I made this guarantee and this promise of what I was doing 15 artists, 30 billboards and bus stops. 00:40:50.880 --> 00:41:05.440 I can't provide the bus stops because this is what's going on and instead what I'm going to do I'm going to make that up I'm going to find other billboards and other placements as many as I physically can I will make this happen. 00:41:05.599 --> 00:41:10.239 And all the comments and everybody just turned around and went you've got this we believe in you thank you for being honest. 00:41:10.400 --> 00:41:19.840 Thank you for being open thank you for not trying to pull the wool over our eyes and I went okay yeah everything online has to be who I am has to be meaningful has to be truthful. 00:41:20.079 --> 00:41:38.000 I can't lie on social media or on anything just in general it's just I mean I think that really comes across and that is part of must be what's contributing to this massive apart from obviously the wonderful information but you're a wonderfully genuine guy and you are exactly who you are on the internet which is refreshing. 00:41:38.400 --> 00:41:46.639 It's funny because anytime people meet me in person or at any sort of art event they always turn around to me and go, oh my God, you are exactly the same as you are online. 00:41:46.800 --> 00:41:49.039 And I'm like yeah no shit it's me. 00:41:50.159 --> 00:41:52.960 And we just have a laugh about it and they go why are you here? 00:41:53.039 --> 00:41:54.239 And I go you're doing R. 00:41:54.400 --> 00:41:55.519 And they go yeah but why are you here? 00:41:55.599 --> 00:41:56.719 And I'm like I want to see your R. 00:41:57.039 --> 00:42:04.000 I'm still the same person as I was when I was so invested in art because I never lost that investment or that interest. 00:42:04.239 --> 00:42:06.400 My passion is art and my passion is creativity. 00:42:06.559 --> 00:42:11.679 If you've got a show and you invite me if I can make that day and I can feasibly make it I'm there. 00:42:11.920 --> 00:42:18.000 Megan rang me up for this creative connections evening the other night like a couple weeks ago and said hey Jen, are you able to make it? 00:42:18.239 --> 00:42:23.920 And I had to be in London anyway and for a tattoo removal and I said look I can make this work. 00:42:24.000 --> 00:42:24.559 I'm I'll be there. 00:42:24.639 --> 00:42:27.679 I'll be there in you now live in Paris it's a little trickier. 00:42:28.000 --> 00:42:40.000 Yeah that's a Hurostar and a hotel night and I was like let's do it why not so instead of just staying a day in London I booked a hotel went back the next day and did this whole creative talk thing. 00:42:40.159 --> 00:42:41.760 I was like great I'm loving this. 00:42:41.840 --> 00:42:42.480 This is fun. 00:42:42.639 --> 00:42:53.760 And people turn around to me and go, well just invite me to the thing I'll show up and I turn around and go how am I going to know that what you're doing exists if you don't tell me and I struggle with seeing so many comments. 00:42:54.079 --> 00:42:57.360 In the nice way I get so many comments a day I can't see them all. 00:42:57.519 --> 00:43:00.320 But if you DM me I might see it a week later. 00:43:00.559 --> 00:43:04.719 Megan sent me a direct message on Instagram and I never saw it. 00:43:04.880 --> 00:43:10.159 But she'd invited me to this event she was doing I never saw the damn thing because it gets

lost. 00:43:10.480 --> 00:43:16.079 Instead she was actually making videos that I then saw and I liked her message. 00:43:16.159 --> 00:43:17.360 I liked what she was doing. 00:43:17.519 --> 00:43:25.119 I then went onto her profile just to send her a message and all I wanted to do was just send her a message going hey I love your idea I love your inspiration I love your passion. 00:43:25.280 --> 00:43:33.840 Keep going believe in yourself and I opened this I opened up to message her and I saw that she sent me a message like a week ago and I went oh god damn and she provided me this thing. 00:43:34.000 --> 00:43:36.400 I was like oh my God I feel so bad now. 00:43:36.719 --> 00:43:43.840 But how am I going to know if it exists if you don't tell me so people need to be able to you know sell themselves really sell their art sell what they're doing. 00:43:44.079 --> 00:43:45.679 But that's what it is you do. 00:43:45.840 --> 00:43:52.960 I mean honestly anyone listening to this that doesn't follow James just go and have a look at his account because it is it's almost like a cheat sheet. 00:43:53.039 --> 00:43:56.400 It's really No no that's the book the book's the cheat sheet. 00:43:56.639 --> 00:44:03.760 But should we should okay should we get onto that a little bit because creative Flair has grown and grown, and you that is down to you, your consistency. 00:44:03.920 --> 00:44:06.400 You show up every day giving this information. 00:44:06.559 --> 00:44:16.400 I know you've got a secret little black book full of all this information that you keep very close to hand, but like you say, that's only as a result of you doing the networking that you've done. 00:44:16.639 --> 00:44:18.400 And can we talk a little bit about that? 00:44:18.639 --> 00:44:21.199 You're the Tom Cruise of the art world, aren't you, James? 00:44:21.440 --> 00:44:23.519 In the sense that we'd spoke about some in it, isn't it? 00:44:23.679 --> 00:44:24.960 Is it contact mapping? 00:44:25.199 --> 00:44:25.920 Contact mapping. 00:44:26.159 --> 00:44:27.599 Can you explain a little bit about this? 00:44:27.679 --> 00:44:32.480 Because I think this could be interesting for artists to understand how to network a little bit better. 00:44:32.719 --> 00:44:33.119 Absolutely. 00:44:33.280 --> 00:44:39.119 This is something that I'm working directly on to build into something a little bit more. 00:44:39.440 --> 00:44:49.599 So I'm very happy to not gatekeep any of how it works because I trust enough people that they're not gonna take the idea and try to do it themselves and steal my stuff. 00:44:49.760 --> 00:44:52.559 But if they do make it themselves, go ahead, do it. 00:44:52.719 --> 00:44:56.400 Like when I sell the ebook, digitally download it, go and print it off yourself. 00:44:56.480 --> 00:44:56.800 I don't care. 00:44:56.880 --> 00:44:59.280 I've covered costs of people printing off the book. 00:44:59.440 --> 00:45:00.639 I don't care, it's fine. 00:45:00.880 --> 00:45:14.960 But

contact mapping is this little thing I started doing just as I got into uni when I started realizing, okay, I'm meeting so many people, I don't remember every single thing about them. 00:45:15.119 --> 00:45:19.039 But something in my brain went, I remember these tiny details about them. 00:45:19.199 --> 00:45:25.280 And I went to Roy's Art Fair, interviewed like a hundred people over the course of three or four hours. 00:45:25.440 --> 00:45:26.239 It was insane. 00:45:26.800 --> 00:45:27.679 I didn't remember all of them. 00:45:28.159 --> 00:45:29.760 So give Roy a little shout out, actually. 00:45:29.840 --> 00:45:36.159 Because Roy Tyson was one of the people that replied to you when you put out your video about being a bit daunted about going to Goldsmiths Video. 00:45:36.559 --> 00:45:40.079 Yeah, I but when I was up in Lancashire, I said, look, I'm moving down to London. 00:45:40.239 --> 00:45:41.760 I don't know anybody in the art world. 00:45:41.920 --> 00:45:43.519 I'm scared chitless. 00:45:43.679 --> 00:45:46.480 So they're like, if anybody knows something to go and do, let me know. 00:45:46.719 --> 00:45:51.440 Roy sent me this message and was just like, hey James, I like your little videos, they're awesome. 00:45:51.599 --> 00:45:53.840 I run this thing called Roy's Art Fair. 00:45:54.000 --> 00:45:55.440 Come along, here's a ticket. 00:45:55.760 --> 00:45:57.599 I went, okay, this will be fun. 00:45:57.840 --> 00:46:00.000 Went along just for shits and giggles. 00:46:00.079 --> 00:46:05.519 My friend and I brought a camera, like my little iPhone and a microphone that my dad bought me and just started interviewing people. 00:46:05.840 --> 00:46:08.079 And it was so incredible. 00:46:08.239 --> 00:46:12.320 The very first artist I ever interviewed was called Sharon Goodenough. 00:46:12.880 --> 00:46:15.440 And she didn't know if I remembered her. 00:46:15.599 --> 00:46:19.519 I will always remember her because she was the first person I ever interviewed. 00:46:19.679 --> 00:46:25.920 And she actually sent me a message about a month ago going, Holy crap, James, I remembered your face. 00:46:26.000 --> 00:46:26.800 I remembered the interview. 00:46:26.880 --> 00:46:28.960 That was the first interview I ever did as well. 00:46:29.119 --> 00:46:32.559 I'm amazed to see how well you're doing, how much passion you've just progressed. 00:46:32.719 --> 00:46:35.360 And I reached out to her and I just said, I'll never forget you. 00:46:35.519 --> 00:46:36.719 That's the first person. 00:46:36.880 --> 00:46:44.320 And I've got this innate skill of not forgetting people anyway, which I've always enjoyed, but I struggle with names. 00:46:44.400 --> 00:46:45.760 I've always struggled with names. 00:46:46.000 --> 00:46:51.119 So I use contact mapping as a method to remember people. 00:46:51.519 --> 00:46:57.440 And in the nicest way, and this can only be done by being absolutely honest and true. 00:46:57.599 --> 00:46:59.519 You can't pull the wool

over people's eyes. 00:46:59.679 --> 00:47:05.679 It's the nicest way of making people feel better and making feel people like making people feel like you remember things about them. 00:47:06.000 --> 00:47:17.920 So contact mapping was basically on my notes, I would write, okay, here's their name, here's everything we spoke about, and I'd take up like the little like things like, okay, they've got a tattoo, or okay, they've got a kid that's seven. 00:47:18.079 --> 00:47:22.480 Oh, they're going skiing, oh, their dog just died, or they've just got a new dog, or something like that. 00:47:22.639 --> 00:47:34.000 And then the next time I see them, just before I would see them, and this is like you see it in like old 70s movies, index cards on business meetings, and they'd pull up a card and then read out everything they know about the person. 00:47:34.159 --> 00:47:35.679 It's the exact same idea. 00:47:35.920 --> 00:47:44.239 Any meeting I go to, I know so many little bits of conversations that they've just said randomly, but I look like I've remembered everything about them. 00:47:44.480 --> 00:47:47.119 And something in me allows me to remember them. 00:47:47.280 --> 00:47:53.199 But contact mapping came around as a thing of I need other people to also remember these things and details about people. 00:47:53.360 --> 00:48:00.320 Because once I had a hundred people in my network, shit started going, oh my God, I don't remember the last conversation we had. 00:48:00.559 --> 00:48:05.599 I can pull out this little note about the person and go, Oh yeah, I introduced you to such and such. 00:48:05.679 --> 00:48:06.559 How did that one go? 00:48:06.800 --> 00:48:08.800 Oh yeah, your kids just went skiing. 00:48:08.960 --> 00:48:09.599 Tell me about it. 00:48:09.760 --> 00:48:11.519 And then they'd give me more information and we talk. 00:48:11.599 --> 00:48:13.440 And that makes them feel really special. 00:48:13.599 --> 00:48:17.360 And I think my interest in psychology really came into play with that. 00:48:17.599 --> 00:48:22.159 But I've seen it go really well for a lot of people, and I've seen it go really bad for a lot of people. 00:48:22.320 --> 00:48:32.880 By no means is it a trademarked term or anything, but it goes really badly for people when they try to manipulate somebody or they try to make it like, oh, I know so much about you. 00:48:32.960 --> 00:48:34.239 And they try to. 00:48:34.559 --> 00:48:40.079 When I say I try to make people feel good, I mean it in a genuine, passionate way because I want to remember these things. 00:48:40.239 --> 00:48:41.360 I want to be able to talk to them. 00:48:41.519 --> 00:48:43.280 I want to have a genuine conversation. 00:48:43.519 --> 00:48:55.920 Somebody that's using it for their own benefit, they can see straight through it and they can tell the lies, they can see the bullshit, and they go, Yeah, feels like you're probably being stalked rather than just exactly activation. 00:48:56.400 --> 00:48:56.880 Yeah. 00:48:57.039 --> 00:48:59.840 Where, and so that's where you've got to be really delicate with it. 00:48:59.920 --> 00:49:05.119 And I was very lucky of I managed to remember things about people anyway because I've just got an interest. 00:49:05.199 --> 00:49:09.199 I've got such an innate interest, and I remember people, I remember our conversations, I remember. 00:49:09.519 --> 00:49:14.559 And do you think that is something that artists need to take on in the sense of understanding networking a bit better? 00:49:14.639 --> 00:49:18.000 Like you say, a lot of artists don't want to do this sort of thing. 00:49:18.480 --> 00:49:31.679 I'm not going to put you on the spot, but is there some little I mean, you've got a fountain of knowledge, but is there a few genuine tidbits of information that you think might be helpful for artists just to go, this is about getting you out there a bit more? 00:49:31.760 --> 00:49:35.039 Like you say, I think it's important selling yourself. 00:49:35.519 --> 00:49:44.800 I think a lot of people, I don't understand why so many people are afraid of talking to somebody or are afraid of having a conversation, just a genuine conversation. 00:49:45.039 --> 00:49:49.840 Don't ever go up to somebody thinking, oh, I can extract something from them. 00:49:50.000 --> 00:49:52.320 Oh, what can I get out of this person? 00:49:52.639 --> 00:50:03.599 The best conversations, the best networks, the best people you ever have are the people you genuinely just want to have a conversation with because you like what they do, or you think they might like what you do, and you just have a good conversation. 00:50:03.760 --> 00:50:05.280 You never need to use somebody. 00:50:05.360 --> 00:50:09.679 If you're trying to use somebody, you're gonna get used yourself and people will tell. 00:50:09.760 --> 00:50:13.519 And the art world's very small, word travels very quick. 00:50:13.840 --> 00:50:17.920 So the more people you fuck over, the harder it's gonna be. 00:50:18.079 --> 00:50:21.360 And I've seen that happen so many times to a lot of people, unfortunately. 00:50:21.519 --> 00:50:24.320 But you just gotta be genuine, like, God, somebody have a conversation. 00:50:24.480 --> 00:50:26.800 People for some reason are afraid when I'm at an event. 00:50:26.960 --> 00:50:37.039 Some people are afraid to come up and talk to me and just be like, they want information, they want ideas, but I'm in uh a unique position of that's my whole brand, that's who I am. 00:50:37.199 --> 00:50:39.760 I will give you ideas, I'll give you tips, I'll do this, I'll do that. 00:50:40.000 --> 00:50:57.679 And a lot of times when it's just something like that, they don't really enter my network and my contacts because they're just trying to extract something from me, and that's fine, that's who I am to give anyway, but we end up having a great conversation out of it in the best place, and they end up being in my network and my contacts, and we

just get on. 00:50:57.760 --> 00:50:58.400 It's great. 00:50:58.639 --> 00:51:06.400 Have you had interesting conversations where perhaps people don't realize that you are an artist as well as being what do we call you, James? 00:51:06.480 --> 00:51:09.599 Like an artist ages ago. 00:51:10.000 --> 00:51:13.119 I did a podcast ages ago, and they were just like, How do you describe your job? 00:51:13.199 --> 00:51:14.400 And I went, I have no idea. 00:51:14.480 --> 00:51:15.920 Whatever of art. 00:51:16.159 --> 00:51:19.599 I think you should trademark that the oracle of the art world. 00:51:20.320 --> 00:51:22.639 I don't really have a label for what I do. 00:51:22.719 --> 00:51:23.440 I'm just me. 00:51:23.599 --> 00:51:25.360 Take it or leave it, I'm just me. 00:51:25.599 --> 00:51:26.639 That that's really it. 00:51:26.880 --> 00:51:28.159 But um, I have a lot of. 00:51:33.360 --> 00:51:35.360 Well, yeah, you either like it or you don't. 00:51:35.519 --> 00:51:37.920 I get a lot of hate online for being who I am. 00:51:38.079 --> 00:51:38.880 Fine, I don't mind. 00:51:39.360 --> 00:51:39.920 Do you really? 00:51:40.320 --> 00:51:40.719 Yeah. 00:51:40.960 --> 00:51:43.360 I'm a kid that rolls his R's on videos. 00:51:43.440 --> 00:51:46.719 I go all the time on video and people hate it. 00:51:46.960 --> 00:51:47.440 Fine. 00:51:47.679 --> 00:51:50.239 But at the same point, it's my video. 00:51:50.639 --> 00:51:52.719 I'm making it because I want to make it. 00:51:52.880 --> 00:51:58.960 If I start morphing and changing who I am to meet somebody else's idea, I'm not me then. 00:51:59.119 --> 00:52:00.320 I'm just who I am. 00:52:00.480 --> 00:52:01.039 That's it. 00:52:01.199 --> 00:52:03.679 And people need to remember that when they talk to other people as well. 00:52:03.760 --> 00:52:04.880 Don't try and change who you are. 00:52:04.960 --> 00:52:06.159 Don't make yourself bigger. 00:52:06.320 --> 00:52:13.039 One of the things I did want to mention to a lot of people that I think some people think of, like when you approach somebody, don't think about what you can get out of them. 00:52:13.199 --> 00:52:21.440 And my dad has this great thing, or he's always said, if ever you end up working for somebody, don't bother being the boss's best friend. 00:52:21.599 --> 00:52:23.679 End up treating everybody the same. 00:52:23.920 --> 00:52:29.119 You will make as good friends as you do with the boss as you do with the cleaning man and the late night cleaners. 00:52:29.199 --> 00:52:35.840 Because the day that you forget your laptop really late at night and you need to get into the side door, who are you gonna ring up? 00:52:35.920 --> 00:52:38.000 Who's gonna be there to let you into the thing? 00:52:38.079 --> 00:52:39.119 It's gonna be the cleaners. 00:52:39.280 --> 00:52:42.559 And that's not something that you're predicting to extract from them. 00:52:42.719 --> 00:52:44.639 It's something you genuinely get on with them. 00:52:44.719 --> 00:52:46.000 You're just a nice person. 00:52:46.159 --> 00:52:50.800 And then when something goes wrong, either for them or for you, you're both there for each other. 00:52:50.960 --> 00:52:56.159 That's what contacts are, is to be there for one another, no matter what the situation. 00:52:56.800 --> 00:52:57.679 I couldn't agree more. 00:52:57.840 --> 00:52:59.280 There's no hierarchy in the world. 00:52:59.360 --> 00:53:00.079 We're all the same. 00:53:00.320 --> 00:53:00.559 Exactly. 00:53:00.800 --> 00:53:01.920 I never put anybody on a pedestal. 00:53:02.639 --> 00:53:04.639 I think you you get on so much better. 00:53:04.719 --> 00:53:10.480 Obviously, if you're gonna meet the King of England or something like that, you might Well, let's go statistically here. 00:53:10.719 --> 00:53:11.280 Yeah, yeah. 00:53:11.360 --> 00:53:16.320 But Well, like just in general, it's like people for some reason put me on a pedestal a lot of the time now. 00:53:16.559 --> 00:53:20.400 And I understand why to an extent, but I always turn around to them. 00:53:20.639 --> 00:53:28.559 And when I first started getting recognized, I didn't really know how to introduce myself or how to react or how to respond. 00:53:28.719 --> 00:53:32.559 There's been a lot of recognizable instances that have gone really bad. 00:53:32.719 --> 00:53:34.400 We've been crowded, we've been swarmed. 00:53:34.719 --> 00:53:36.239 It's always a little bit scary. 00:53:36.400 --> 00:53:41.280 But when it's a genuinely nice interaction with people and they go, James, I just want to say hi. 00:53:41.360 --> 00:53:42.239 I've seen you on social media. 00:53:42.320 --> 00:53:42.800 I love what you do. 00:53:42.880 --> 00:53:43.280 Thank you so much. 00:53:43.360 --> 00:53:44.000 You've helped me so much. 00:53:44.079 --> 00:53:44.960 I really appreciate that. 00:53:45.119 --> 00:53:47.440 Or they'll come up to me and go, Hi, I'm Ruth. 00:53:47.519 --> 00:53:48.559 I know exactly who you are. 00:53:48.639 --> 00:53:51.199 Like I've seen you so much on social media, all these kinds of things. 00:53:51.360 --> 00:53:54.000 Every single time, I always just turn around and go, hi, I'm James. 00:53:54.159 --> 00:53:54.639 Nice to meet you. 00:53:54.719 --> 00:53:55.840 Shake their hand, give them a hug. 00:53:56.000 --> 00:53:57.760 Because I'm still a person, I'm still a human. 00:53:57.920 --> 00:54:03.199 I don't want them to think of me up here and themselves down here because I don't want people to put themselves down. 00:54:03.440 --> 00:54:08.480 Put yourself on the same level as you would put anybody else, and you just get on and you click. 00:54:08.639 --> 00:54:14.400 So if they see themselves down here, I'll bring them up to the level they think that I'm on, and we have just an equal conversation. 00:54:14.800 --> 00:54:16.239 That's a wonderful skill to have. 00:54:16.559 --> 00:54:17.840 That's what contacting is. 00:54:17.920 --> 00:54:22.639 That's what talking and networking is

all about, rather than having that hierarchical thing. 00:54:22.719 --> 00:54:25.119 In my contact map, there is no hierarchy. 00:54:25.280 --> 00:54:30.480 I've got people I talk to more often, less often, people I know for this, people I know for that. 00:54:30.639 --> 00:54:33.840 But nobody is better or worse than somebody else. 00:54:33.920 --> 00:54:35.679 There's just different experiences. 00:55:11.869 --> 00:55:14.030 Mate, this is so refreshing to hear. 00:55:14.110 --> 00:55:15.949 It's so lovely to hear as well. 00:55:16.110 --> 00:55:20.670 And I'm gonna probably ruin it now, but and I'm gonna try and flog your online book. 00:55:20.990 --> 00:55:22.190 Works to me, I'm down. 00:55:22.750 --> 00:55:29.389 But you've worked so bloody hard to build this network, as you say, to build this following, and it just keeps growing. 00:55:29.470 --> 00:55:30.349 Like it's staggering. 00:55:30.429 --> 00:55:42.750 Every time I look at your account, it's just getting bigger and bigger, which is unbelievable, but it must be quite overwhelming going from that home education to now the notoriety of being mobbed in galleries and stuff like that. 00:55:42.829 --> 00:55:43.789 That's quite crazy. 00:55:44.110 --> 00:55:44.990 It's a bit scary. 00:55:45.389 --> 00:55:52.269 You've done all this work giving, giving, giving, giving, and now essentially you've combined all of that into one product. 00:55:52.349 --> 00:55:53.470 Is that correct in saying? 00:55:53.789 --> 00:55:59.150 Pretty much not in this not necessarily one product, one book, but it is very much. 00:55:59.630 --> 00:56:02.590 A year ago I had less than 5,000 followers. 00:56:02.909 --> 00:56:15.630 I had a strategy, I knew what I was doing, but I also failed so many times trying something and not being afraid to try, not being afraid to fail, that I've learned what works. 00:56:15.789 --> 00:56:22.190 And so why would I let other people go through the failures when I can just tell you what didn't work and what does work? 00:56:22.429 --> 00:56:22.990 Why not? 00:56:23.150 --> 00:56:26.670 So it's about a matter of becoming visible, it's a matter of getting seen. 00:56:27.070 --> 00:56:30.750 So how does that manifest in the sense of is it a course? 00:56:30.909 --> 00:56:31.869 Is it an e-book? 00:56:32.190 --> 00:56:40.190 It's an ebook, it's called visible, but it also comes in a physical format from Amazon as well, which a lot of people like having the physical books. 00:56:40.349 --> 00:56:44.110 But the ebook itself, again, this is just me give, give, give because that's who I am. 00:56:44.190 --> 00:56:44.990 I I enjoy it. 00:56:45.150 --> 00:56:47.230 The ebook is 39 quid. 00:56:47.309 --> 00:56:49.070 It's usually on sale anyway. 00:56:49.309 --> 00:56:52.590 You get that, and it comes with a lifetime of updates. 00:56:52.750 --> 00:56:59.309 So when I released the first version of Visible, I'd worked my absolute arse off to build this thing into what it was. 00:56:59.470 --> 00:57:03.949 And then literally two months later, the whole flipping art world changed. 00:57:04.030 --> 00:57:09.150 And I went, damn it, a lot of these strategies and old things don't really work the same as they would now. 00:57:09.470 --> 00:57:11.389 Can you say a little bit more about that? 00:57:11.630 --> 00:57:23.309 In that small amount of time frame, what changed that you'd written in the book that social media worked and how art became more visible through social media, the algorithm changed like that. 00:57:23.630 --> 00:57:28.510 And I noticed it, other people noticed it, they'd reach out to me and they'd go, Hey James, I've read this strategy, I read this idea. 00:57:28.590 --> 00:57:29.949 It's a fantastic idea. 00:57:30.190 --> 00:57:32.750 This might have worked a year ago, but not so much now. 00:57:32.829 --> 00:57:35.550 And I went, you are absolutely flipping spot on. 00:57:35.710 --> 00:57:40.349 I'm working on the second edition of the book right now because I want to be able to give this to you. 00:57:40.510 --> 00:57:43.070 And the last thing I wanted people to do was to buy the book. 00:57:43.230 --> 00:57:48.190 I then release a new version that's up to date, and then I have to get people to spend more of their flipping money. 00:57:48.269 --> 00:57:51.070 So I always push people to buy the ebook directly. 00:57:51.230 --> 00:57:56.349 Although it is a little bit more expensive than a physical book, you never have to rebuy it again. 00:57:56.429 --> 00:58:02.429 And I don't care if you go and physically print it out on your own printer or make as many notes and stuff as you want. 00:58:02.590 --> 00:58:03.389 That's fine. 00:58:03.630 --> 00:58:05.470 But it's always lifetime updates. 00:58:05.550 --> 00:58:08.190 And it comes with a workbook now, the second edition is there. 00:58:08.349 --> 00:58:13.630 And then on the offside of that, and this is where visible is not an all-in-one inclusive thing. 00:58:13.869 --> 00:58:39.630 Visible is here's how to become recognizable, here's how to build your own brand as an artist, here's how to sell without a gallery, here's how to sell with a gallery, here's how to understand the business side of art, here's how to understand how to price it, sell it, be the artist you dream of being, whether you want a hundred thousand people flooding your prints or 50 people buying your originals. 00:58:39.869 --> 00:58:48.349 It works on both ends of that because you can't do anything unless people know that you exist, because you need to become visible, you need to become seen. 00:58:48.510 --> 00:58:50.909 So that's what visible is all about. 00:58:51.070 --> 00:58:57.470 And then a lot of people would know me either from the grant videos or they'd known me from an artist statement video. 00:58:57.630 --> 00:59:02.110 They're like the two big ones that a lot of people would recognize me from, and then art help and stuff. 00:59:02.269 --> 00:59:06.990 And so there's little bonus things

that people can get, which is an artist statement workbook. 00:59:07.150 --> 00:59:11.470 It's a template, it's the artist blueprint map, it's all those kind of things. 00:59:11.630 --> 00:59:24.030 And then off the other end of that, like that's just the one sort of physical product and the book, and people get so much like I get literally so many people message me going, James, the book has helped me so much. 00:59:24.190 --> 00:59:24.909 Thank you so much. 00:59:25.070 --> 00:59:27.070 I love this, but could you help me with this? 00:59:27.230 --> 00:59:28.429 And I go, absolutely. 00:59:28.670 --> 00:59:34.829 Thank you so much for mentioning this, because it might have been something I missed out on in the book or didn't explain very well. 00:59:34.990 --> 00:59:40.349 So I can start morphing that into the third edition of the book that everybody gets for free anyway, who've already bought it. 00:59:40.510 --> 00:59:44.590 And then the other side of all this is I wanted to start working more directly with artists. 00:59:44.829 --> 00:59:52.990 And I've done lots of one-to-one sessions in the past, but now, if I were to do one-to-ones, I get so overwhelmed. 00:59:53.230 --> 00:59:57.309 And they're interesting for me, but they're not the be-all and end all. 00:59:57.470 --> 01:00:00.269 Instead, I like working with a large group, a large community. 01:00:00.429 --> 01:00:02.429 For me, art needs to be a community. 01:00:02.990 --> 01:00:04.909 You can't do anything without that community. 01:00:05.070 --> 01:00:07.230 So I launched this thing called the Inner Studio. 01:00:07.309 --> 01:00:13.150 And the Inner Studio is this amazing platform that we've got so many incredible talented artists from all over the world. 01:00:13.230 --> 01:00:17.070 And every single month we do a live stream or two, and people can just ask me questions. 01:00:17.150 --> 01:00:22.429 We all talk, we have a curriculum, we have a statement clinic, we have all these kinds of things that you can just post. 01:00:22.670 --> 01:00:28.909 And it's the first thing I open in the morning because that's what gets my priority before Instagram gets my priority. 01:00:29.070 --> 01:00:34.750 Because I can't read every message on Instagram, but I can read every message on the inner studio. 01:00:34.829 --> 01:00:38.190 And that's like a tenor a month, and it's just good fun and networking. 01:00:38.269 --> 01:00:47.630 And we've gone in there and talking about, I share a lot of like my exclusive ideas, things I'll share on there a month before they even make it into a video. 01:00:47.789 --> 01:00:50.110 Like there's so much strategy and planning that goes into a video. 01:00:50.190 --> 01:00:51.869 I don't just pick it up and go, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. 01:00:52.110 --> 01:00:56.349 There's scripts, there's ideas, there's hooks, there's everything that works in this formula. 01:00:56.510 --> 01:01:00.110 And so I'll share them on the inner studio before people see it in general. 01:01:00.269 --> 01:01:02.750 And then people go, James, I made my first sale. 01:01:02.909 --> 01:01:03.869 James, I got this going. 01:01:03.949 --> 01:01:04.909 James, we're doing that. 01:01:05.070 --> 01:01:09.550 It's like I've got this amazing partnership with an artist platform website manager. 01:01:09.789 --> 01:01:13.550 Her name's Liv, and she runs a platform called gesso.work. 01:01:13.710 --> 01:01:15.070 And I discovered this thing. 01:01:15.230 --> 01:01:24.909 We've got an amazing partnership now, and that integrates directly into the inner studio to help more and more artists actually build their platforms, build their websites. 01:01:25.070 --> 01:01:25.949 She's on it. 01:01:26.030 --> 01:01:32.190 She helps people with any website stuff they might have because I'm not the flipping messiah of the art world. 01:01:32.349 --> 01:01:40.829 I'm just very lucky to know how to talk with people, contact people, and know somebody that is far smarter than I am who can help somebody else with their website. 01:01:41.150 --> 01:01:47.389 And is that inner studio limited and numbers or no, no, not really. 01:01:47.550 --> 01:01:55.710 It's really good because it's lots of people like either being on there to communicate with everybody else, or they just like being on there to communicate with me. 01:01:55.789 --> 01:02:02.190 There's a lot of people that don't want to share their art in public on social media or in the inner studio, and they just want to have a closer conversation with me. 01:02:02.349 --> 01:02:02.990 That's fine. 01:02:03.230 --> 01:02:10.909 But there's a lot of people that there's some people that literally create their own sort of artist get togethers every week and they jump on a live session together and show each other's work. 01:02:10.990 --> 01:02:11.789 And it's it's amazing. 01:02:11.949 --> 01:02:16.349 They just they share their goals, they share their dreams, they share how successful they are. 01:02:16.510 --> 01:02:26.190 Because another thing on social media, there's this big sort of people look down on somebody that is sharing their success, especially in the art world for some reason. 01:02:26.429 --> 01:02:32.030 And I don't believe that's healthy because I think if you make a sale, scream it from the flipping rooftop. 01:02:32.110 --> 01:02:35.309 And if you don't want to scream it on social media, scream it to me. 01:02:35.470 --> 01:02:43.470 Do it because I will be the first person in your corner clapping you on and shouting your name of how amazing you're doing, because that's what people need. 01:02:44.030 --> 01:02:52.190 I'm gonna be honest, I haven't bought it yet, but I am definitely gonna be supporting and I'll be buying the online book so I can get continuous updates for the rest of my days. 01:02:52.429 --> 01:02:54.030 Do you not put yourself under a bit of pressure? 01:02:54.269 --> 01:02:59.949 How are you gonna limit yourself, or will it just be a continuous thing you'll

constantly be updating as the art world changes? 01:03:00.190 --> 01:03:01.389 Why would I limit anything? 01:03:01.470 --> 01:03:02.429 Why would I do that to that? 01:03:04.510 --> 01:03:05.789 I've got the energy. 01:03:06.030 --> 01:03:16.269 I'm so lucky that everybody who buys, supports, views has allowed me to make this not only my job, not only my career, but my entire life. 01:03:16.510 --> 01:03:21.550 That's the reason of why would I limit something just because I don't have the enough time. 01:03:21.869 --> 01:03:28.110 I will be honest, the public canvas, which is what we call the billboard section of Creative Flare, it's a subsidiary of Creative Flare itself. 01:03:28.190 --> 01:03:35.389 The public canvas has been a little bit on hold because of me moving away from London into Paris and different EU regulations. 01:03:35.630 --> 01:03:37.389 I've got to get through those somehow. 01:03:37.550 --> 01:03:44.590 And so I've hit this point where there's only so much I can do as an individual that Creative Flair now looks for other people to bring on board. 01:03:44.829 --> 01:03:48.190 We can work with them, we can work closely, we can actually make something together. 01:03:48.349 --> 01:03:55.630 So I'm looking at hiring somebody to take over a little bit more of the public canvas, but then I'm still there at the forefront, leading the ideas, doing this. 01:03:55.710 --> 01:04:02.030 But they're more capable of doing the things that are going to take up more of my time that aren't gonna instantly help somebody. 01:04:02.269 --> 01:04:04.190 So I don't limit anything. 01:04:04.269 --> 01:04:05.789 The the sky is my limit. 01:04:05.869 --> 01:04:06.349 That's it. 01:04:06.590 --> 01:04:09.710 Would you say you're more of an entrepreneur or a creative? 01:04:10.750 --> 01:04:12.429 Can I be a creative entrepreneur? 01:04:12.670 --> 01:04:13.550 I love that answer as well. 01:04:13.630 --> 01:04:15.789 I set you up for it and you just knocked it out of the park. 01:04:15.869 --> 01:04:16.190 But yeah. 01:04:16.429 --> 01:04:17.550 Maybe that's what it is. 01:04:17.710 --> 01:04:18.429 That's the title. 01:04:18.670 --> 01:04:19.710 Creative entrepreneur. 01:04:19.789 --> 01:04:22.510 It's broad enough that it encapsulates everything that you do. 01:04:22.829 --> 01:04:26.269 I won't lie, I always have had a very entrepreneurial mindset. 01:04:26.349 --> 01:04:27.309 So is my family. 01:04:27.470 --> 01:04:31.949 I mean, well, you were getting commissions for pet portraits and portraits when you were a kid, James. 01:04:32.030 --> 01:04:33.150 So you can see that. 01:04:33.710 --> 01:04:39.550 When I was younger, I turned around to somebody, Lord knows who, but I remember it in I still remember it so vividly. 01:04:39.710 --> 01:04:42.829 And I turned around to somebody and they were like, Oh, what do you want to do as a career, James? 01:04:42.909 --> 01:04:44.510 And I said, I want to be an entrepreneur. 01:04:44.590 --> 01:04:45.550 And they just turn around to me. 01:04:45.710 --> 01:04:48.670 They're an adult, and they just turn around to me and said, Oh, so unemployed. 01:04:49.150 --> 01:04:49.710 That's the thing. 01:04:49.789 --> 01:04:52.750 Like, you how are you crushing a child's idea? 01:04:52.990 --> 01:04:54.190 Educate somebody. 01:04:54.349 --> 01:04:56.670 And this is another little quote I love. 01:04:56.829 --> 01:04:58.110 I absolutely love this quote. 01:04:58.349 --> 01:04:59.630 Is and this is what I share. 01:04:59.710 --> 01:05:01.150 I share information. 01:05:01.470 --> 01:05:06.909 But I again I'm no I'm no messiah, I'm no hero, I'm just a guide. 01:05:07.070 --> 01:05:08.590 But the rest of it is up to you. 01:05:08.670 --> 01:05:11.070 I can share as much information as humanly possible. 01:05:11.150 --> 01:05:14.110 But if you don't take the action on it, it's not going to get anywhere. 01:05:14.269 --> 01:05:17.630 So, in essence, you've got to be the hero of everything you do. 01:05:17.789 --> 01:05:23.389 Listen to what I do, listen to these ideas and things, but listen to so many other people as well. 01:05:23.710 --> 01:05:28.590 But information without action is just expensive entertainment. 01:05:28.990 --> 01:05:29.869 Clip that up. 01:05:30.190 --> 01:05:32.670 Expensive could be money, expensive could be time. 01:05:33.230 --> 01:05:35.550 You're you're just entertaining yourself. 01:05:35.789 --> 01:05:39.949 See the video, get the idea, fuck off social media and go do the damn idea. 01:05:40.269 --> 01:05:40.510 Action. 01:05:40.670 --> 01:05:40.829 Action. 01:05:41.150 --> 01:05:41.309 Yeah. 01:05:41.630 --> 01:05:42.590 Take the action. 01:05:42.750 --> 01:05:43.630 Buy the book. 01:05:43.949 --> 01:05:44.829 Do the action. 01:05:45.309 --> 01:05:46.190 It is that kind of thing. 01:05:46.269 --> 01:05:47.630 And I do momentum. 01:05:48.110 --> 01:05:48.510 Exactly. 01:05:48.590 --> 01:05:51.470 I say, look, if you've got that go in you, do it. 01:05:51.630 --> 01:05:52.909 I've got that go in me. 01:05:52.990 --> 01:05:58.429 I had so many downs, I've had so many ups, but I've got that non-stop go that I will just continue doing it. 01:05:58.590 --> 01:06:01.630 Why would I limit anything if I've got the energy and I've got the passion? 01:06:01.789 --> 01:06:05.470 Why would you do the same thing for your own career if you've got the energy, you've got the passion? 01:06:05.630 --> 01:06:07.230 Don't just waste time scrolling. 01:06:07.389 --> 01:06:09.230 Find the thing, take the action, do it. 01:06:09.389 --> 01:06:22.190 That way, it's not reliant on me, it's reliant on you because I can't solve everybody's problem, but I can give you the answer and I can give you the strategy to do it so that you don't have to go over this again. 01:06:22.349 --> 01:06:26.510 And I work so closely on the inner studio with people doing this every month on a live stream. 01:06:26.750 --> 01:06:29.230 Longest live stream we did was like two hours

and 20 minutes. 01:06:29.389 --> 01:06:34.110 Because I always say the moment I'm on this live stream, I will not leave until the last question is answered. 01:06:34.190 --> 01:06:35.150 I don't care how long it goes for. 01:06:35.869 --> 01:06:39.550 Book my entire evening off just to do this live stream for as long as it can. 01:06:39.710 --> 01:06:46.110 I book about four or five hours just to do a live stream with people because they've got that energy to be there for me. 01:06:46.269 --> 01:06:48.269 I'm always gonna have that energy to be there for them. 01:06:48.429 --> 01:06:54.429 So and I think we've never lived in a better time to have this information, but you hit the nail on the head. 01:06:54.590 --> 01:07:00.190 The information is out there for every artist to make a success, whatever that looked like for them. 01:07:00.349 --> 01:07:00.990 Yeah, it takes out. 01:07:01.309 --> 01:07:03.230 But it takes them to do it. 01:07:03.550 --> 01:07:04.349 Exactly, yeah. 01:07:04.510 --> 01:07:10.429 And I think that's an and again, like where school kind of got them wrong, is they think the answer will just come. 01:07:10.590 --> 01:07:14.590 They think the answer, there's a solution, and somebody might step in to do it. 01:07:14.750 --> 01:07:15.550 Nobody is coming. 01:07:15.630 --> 01:07:17.710 And this is guaranteed in the art world. 01:07:17.869 --> 01:07:20.110 Nobody comes to save you, nobody comes to do it. 01:07:20.269 --> 01:07:25.389 People can look at any artist's career and go, oh, they got lucky, oh, but they've got a gallery, oh, but they got this. 01:07:25.630 --> 01:07:30.750 The moment somebody turns around to me and goes, oh, and they start comparing themselves with somebody, I immediately shut them down. 01:07:30.990 --> 01:07:43.710 Not because like they just need to like re-reassess their mindset because they're again putting themselves down and down, and that's not good for them, and it's not good for their sort of like longevity of being a creative. 01:07:44.269 --> 01:07:46.349 Be the person you want to aspire to. 01:07:46.510 --> 01:07:47.150 Don't wait. 01:07:47.309 --> 01:07:48.670 Just be who that person. 01:07:49.150 --> 01:07:52.190 And don't compare yourself because your career is your own thing. 01:07:52.349 --> 01:07:54.670 Don't think anything just happened overnight for anybody. 01:07:54.829 --> 01:07:59.150 People turn around to me and go, Oh, James, you're so lucky with hundreds of thousands of followers doing this, doing that. 01:07:59.309 --> 01:08:04.429 I worked seven bloody years so hard building up this stuff. 01:08:04.590 --> 01:08:10.429 And I was really lucky when it came to my degree show and even an art fair that I brought my entire family to. 01:08:10.670 --> 01:08:20.109 And there were artists that had supported me for like a year or so or had known me for a couple months, and they'd come to the thing and go, Oh, they talk to my parents and be like, oh wow, your son's so amazing. 01:08:20.269 --> 01:08:21.229 You should be so proud. 01:08:21.389 --> 01:08:24.109 He's made it so quickly, he's done this amazing thing. 01:08:24.269 --> 01:08:28.429 My dad would turn around to them and go, You should see just how bloody hard he works. 01:08:28.510 --> 01:08:43.149 You should see the late nights that he sat up learning how to build a website, learning how to program, thinking through ideas, scratching down chicken scratch of ideas and notes and just talking out loud with my family about these ideas, how I wanted to do it, how I wanted to get there. 01:08:43.309 --> 01:08:43.949 And that's the thing. 01:08:44.109 --> 01:08:47.470 People are afraid to share this thing, they're afraid to look further. 01:08:47.710 --> 01:08:49.229 Nothing happens overnight. 01:08:49.309 --> 01:08:50.510 It nothing does. 01:08:50.750 --> 01:08:57.470 I just was lucky I worked out the strategy and the passion to build what I had dreamt of my entire life. 01:08:57.710 --> 01:08:59.710 A seven-year overnight success. 01:08:59.949 --> 01:09:00.510 Exactly. 01:09:00.750 --> 01:09:01.149 Exactly. 01:09:01.310 --> 01:09:04.350 It's like you look at musicians, nobody, nothing happens overnight, does it? 01:09:04.510 --> 01:09:04.750 No. 01:09:04.909 --> 01:09:07.390 And if it does, how are you gonna hold on to it? 01:09:07.630 --> 01:09:17.710 And I had a conversation recently about navigating a brand with another artist, and they were like, How do I break away from such a recognizable style? 01:09:17.869 --> 01:09:20.270 Because this style doesn't interest them anymore. 01:09:20.510 --> 01:09:26.350 And they actually wanted to use my analogy of being creative online and they want to talk about videos. 01:09:26.430 --> 01:09:28.029 And I went, okay, let's talk about videos. 01:09:28.189 --> 01:09:29.149 I said, How do you do it? 01:09:29.230 --> 01:09:31.230 How do you keep an audience engaged? 01:09:31.390 --> 01:09:34.029 And I said, because I'm funny and I'm stupid as fuck. 01:09:34.270 --> 01:09:36.829 This uh like immediately that was just whatever. 01:09:36.989 --> 01:09:43.149 But I said, a lot of people actually started recognizing me once they saw that I was helping them. 01:09:43.390 --> 01:09:45.550 Then that's one sort of audience factor. 01:09:45.789 --> 01:09:51.550 The other is somebody sees a solution, and the other one is somebody might recognize me from uh a grant video. 01:09:51.710 --> 01:09:56.909 They're like, I think my most popular video is like 2.4 million views, and we talk about the Elizabeth Green Shields Foundation. 01:09:57.069 --> 01:09:58.270 I think that's the one. 01:09:58.590 --> 01:10:02.670 And so many people see that and think, okay, great. 01:10:02.750 --> 01:10:03.789 And then they click follow. 01:10:03.869 --> 01:10:04.989 How do I get them to re-follow? 01:10:05.069 --> 01:10:09.310 How do I get to navigate that audience when I want to change what I do? 01:10:09.550 --> 01:10:16.109 Because I spoke about grants

in about 20 videos, but I've got so many videos on so many different things. 01:10:16.510 --> 01:10:21.390 But I need somebody to click it, look through, and understand what my brand is about. 01:10:21.550 --> 01:10:27.869 So that when I talk about networking or when I talk about galleries, I'm not a one-trick pony. 01:10:28.189 --> 01:10:28.750 That's the thing. 01:10:28.909 --> 01:10:32.189 So you can be an overnight success union, but you need to be able to hold it. 01:10:32.510 --> 01:10:37.949 So if you manage to sell a work for 20 grand, don't sell your next one for 500. 01:10:38.430 --> 01:10:48.829 You need to keep that sort of momentum and you need to keep this collector's ladder going so that you can keep building and growing, but you don't need to always be spiking. 01:10:49.069 --> 01:10:51.390 You sometimes growing slower is better. 01:10:51.949 --> 01:10:57.789 It took me three years of just social media stuff to get to 5,000 followers. 01:10:58.029 --> 01:11:01.390 Then it took me a month to get to 10,000. 01:11:01.630 --> 01:11:04.829 Then it took me about four months to hit 50k. 01:11:04.909 --> 01:11:05.949 It was insane. 01:11:06.270 --> 01:11:10.829 But again, it's that slow sort of momentum that all of a sudden builds and takes off. 01:11:10.909 --> 01:11:12.829 But now it doesn't drop, it holds. 01:11:12.909 --> 01:11:14.590 And that's what I've built everything around. 01:11:14.670 --> 01:11:19.710 That's what I try to teach artists how to build themselves and hold that momentum as well through their careers. 01:11:20.350 --> 01:11:23.230 So where does this go next for you then, James? 01:11:23.390 --> 01:11:29.949 It sounds like you're gonna be writing editions of the the book for a while, but at the moment, I haven't started version three. 01:11:30.029 --> 01:11:32.189 I've got ideas of version three. 01:11:32.430 --> 01:11:37.550 I think the next thing that I'm starting to do is I want to get back into the billboard game. 01:11:37.710 --> 01:11:40.109 I'm really keen to start doing that. 01:11:40.430 --> 01:11:48.829 But my next sort of ambition is to make people understand how destructive vanity galleries are to a career. 01:11:48.989 --> 01:11:51.149 I want people to start understanding this. 01:11:51.470 --> 01:11:53.550 And say all you want. 01:11:53.789 --> 01:12:02.590 I've got some really bad experiences with some vanity galleries, which you all know who you are, which have tried to sue me, have lawsuits thrown at me. 01:12:03.230 --> 01:12:05.949 When you say vanity gallery, what do you mean by that, James? 01:12:06.189 --> 01:12:06.590 Exactly. 01:12:06.670 --> 01:12:07.869 People don't know what it means. 01:12:08.109 --> 01:12:21.630 A vanity gallery is basically so a normal gallery will take your artwork, they'll put on a show for you, and they'll put all the like lights, glitz, and glamour on that one opening evening. 01:12:21.789 --> 01:12:23.949 Then they'll spend the next few days trying to sell the work.

01:12:24.109 --> 01:12:32.989 What a lot of people don't know is a gallery, a proper gallery, would have sold most of the work to their exclusive private collectors before the private night even opens. 01:12:33.230 --> 01:12:36.590 Every artist wants the private night glitz and glamour and fame. 01:12:36.750 --> 01:12:42.670 A vanity gallery will sell you that glitz and glamour for one night, but they're not selling your work. 01:12:42.829 --> 01:12:48.590 They're selling a placement on a wall for you to put your art and make you feel special. 01:12:48.750 --> 01:12:51.230 They're feeding you bullshit. 01:12:51.470 --> 01:12:55.789 And it is so damaging for a career, unfortunately. 01:12:56.109 --> 01:13:03.630 And I really try to make this distinction for people of because somebody could turn around and go, but isn't that what you do with the billboards, James? 01:13:03.710 --> 01:13:07.069 And I turn around and go, no, I don't sell a moment for them. 01:13:07.149 --> 01:13:10.350 I sell them this reputation they can use forever. 01:13:10.510 --> 01:13:17.470 Because if you turn around to somebody on a CV or you're applying for a grant or residency, you've got to list where your art's been. 01:13:17.710 --> 01:13:28.670 If they see a name they recognize as a vanity, because every artist who's at a certain point knows a vanity gallery and knows that if a person's associated with it, it's immediately a scam. 01:13:28.909 --> 01:13:37.949 And artists view these vanity galleries as a scam because they're giving that glitz glamour and they're only interested in selling something to an artist. 01:13:38.109 --> 01:13:40.510 Their commodity is an artist. 01:13:40.670 --> 01:13:51.710 Like they have so much churn rate of artists, no artist returns to them to go and do it again because they're trying to sell this lie, this myth, this idea, this fantasy, it's it doesn't work. 01:13:52.029 --> 01:14:01.149 So that's where artists need to be more educated on where they're putting their money to fund themselves to build their own career. 01:14:01.390 --> 01:14:09.710 So if somebody turns around to me and goes, Oh, but this vanity gallery can put, or this name of a gallery can put my art on a billboard for so much cheaper. 01:14:09.869 --> 01:14:11.630 And I go, absolutely they can. 01:14:11.869 --> 01:14:13.630 But what you give is what you get. 01:14:13.710 --> 01:14:19.869 So if you're giving them 10 quid to put your art on a billboard, I've seen this in person, I've seen what they do. 01:14:20.109 --> 01:14:26.430 That gallery will put it up for 10 seconds, take a photo of it and send it to that person and go, look, it was on the billboard. 01:14:26.590 --> 01:14:27.149 Yay. 01:14:27.390 --> 01:14:31.390 But what I do is I make it into this incredible thing. 01:14:31.550 --> 01:14:34.510 I don't care about the money that I gain from it. 01:14:34.590 --> 01:14:36.430 I care about this is giving somebody exposure. 01:14:36.590 --> 01:14:38.029 I found the London Art Fair. 01:14:38.189 --> 01:14:42.430 We put a bunch of artist work on a billboard right near the London Art Fair. 01:14:42.590 --> 01:14:47.710 Those are people that are interested in art, they're gonna see it on the billboard and I said it's off for the entire flipping day. 01:14:47.869 --> 01:14:51.069 I also did this in Shoreditch, Battersea, and London Bridge. 01:14:51.149 --> 01:14:51.310 Wow. 01:14:51.470 --> 01:14:55.390 They're the ones that mostly dedicated in London all around an art event. 01:14:55.630 --> 01:15:01.550 In the future, when somebody goes to apply for a grant residency, Creative Flair now has its own reputation. 01:15:01.710 --> 01:15:13.230 So when somebody sees that their art has been on a billboard through Creative Flair through me, call it narcissistic, if you will, but that's a much more dependable brand than something like a vanity gallery. 01:15:13.630 --> 01:15:15.550 Social print in the making. 01:15:16.270 --> 01:15:16.510 Yeah. 01:15:17.149 --> 01:15:33.789 But potentially, like you say, I understand that a gallery could put your advice, especially on those digital billboards, it could go once in a day at two in the afternoon for 10 seconds when no one's gonna see it, whereas you've probably got it on one an hour or one every half an hour or whatever, or the paper. 01:15:35.550 --> 01:15:36.270 Every two minutes. 01:15:36.510 --> 01:15:36.829 Yep. 01:15:36.989 --> 01:15:38.989 Wow, you on a circle, on a loop. 01:15:39.230 --> 01:15:44.430 So roughly what I'll do is I'll take about 15 artists, 10 to 15 artists. 01:15:44.510 --> 01:15:46.590 I can't go above that because it gets messy. 01:15:46.750 --> 01:15:53.310 It is an investment, but you're investing in your in yourself, and then they actually go on that loop just for the whole day. 01:15:53.390 --> 01:15:56.670 And usually what I do is it goes from 12 in the afternoon to 10 at night. 01:15:56.909 --> 01:16:00.909 And that's the peak times of when people and foot traffic are going to see them. 01:16:01.069 --> 01:16:07.949 So many artists show up on the day to come and see their art, support each other, support the next artist, and we all just take photos together, and it's so much fun. 01:16:08.270 --> 01:16:09.869 Often we just end up going out to the pub afterwards. 01:16:10.109 --> 01:16:11.149 It's great fun. 01:16:11.550 --> 01:16:14.989 And that's that's what really is so it's that community again. 01:16:15.149 --> 01:16:21.069 So many of these people from the original Art on the Street week formed their own Instagram group chat. 01:16:21.149 --> 01:16:24.829 And I swear, I love seeing the little messages and what they're doing, all that stuff. 01:16:25.069 --> 01:16:27.949 And sometimes people just need that motivational boost. 01:16:28.029 --> 01:16:32.270 And a vanity gallery is good for that motivational boost, but not if you're gonna sell something. 01:16:32.430 --> 01:16:34.270 Because then a vanity gallery won't sell anything.

01:16:34.350 --> 01:16:35.630 They're not bringing collectors. 01:16:35.789 --> 01:16:45.390 I went to one Vanity Gallery event when I first went to London and I walked out within 15 minutes because not a single person there was actually interested. 01:16:45.630 --> 01:16:47.149 Nobody there was to buy art. 01:16:47.310 --> 01:16:51.949 It was just artists, and it was just a bit of champagne, glitz and glamour, and lights and cameras. 01:16:52.109 --> 01:16:52.510 That's it. 01:16:52.590 --> 01:16:54.270 They're just trying to make it appear better. 01:16:54.350 --> 01:16:56.430 They're trying to pull the wool out in people's eyes. 01:16:56.670 --> 01:17:00.270 So for Creative Flair Next, it's working a little bit more with that. 01:17:00.430 --> 01:17:03.869 And I'm expecting a few more lawsuits from them, which will be really fun. 01:17:04.109 --> 01:17:06.029 A couple more cease and desist letters. 01:17:06.109 --> 01:17:07.069 I can deal with them. 01:17:07.230 --> 01:17:08.829 So come and get me if you want. 01:17:09.550 --> 01:17:10.670 I love that, James. 01:17:10.829 --> 01:17:15.789 I think, like you say, you'll have a very supportive army of people behind you, want you to keep doing what you're doing. 01:17:16.109 --> 01:17:17.310 So, how can people? 01:17:17.869 --> 01:17:19.949 You're gonna get back to the the billboard stuff. 01:17:20.029 --> 01:17:22.670 How can people apply for and get involved in that? 01:17:22.989 --> 01:17:24.510 Link's always in the bio. 01:17:25.310 --> 01:17:33.630 Essentially, although I made that initial investment in the whole infrastructure about a year ago, I'm reworking how the infrastructure works. 01:17:33.869 --> 01:17:40.430 So I'm building up the public canvas a little bit more to be its own independently run thing. 01:17:40.670 --> 01:17:49.869 I'm looking at hiring somebody to basically take over the admin side of it because the admin side is what costs me time to be able to focus on helping more people. 01:17:50.029 --> 01:17:50.270 Yeah. 01:17:50.510 --> 01:17:54.989 So every time that I do a billboard campaign, I just announce it. 01:17:55.149 --> 01:17:56.590 The link's always in the bio. 01:17:56.750 --> 01:17:57.630 They go and get it. 01:17:57.789 --> 01:17:59.470 We make a whole event out of it. 01:17:59.550 --> 01:18:00.750 I don't do one a week. 01:18:00.909 --> 01:18:06.750 I'm hopefully looking at doing once a month or once every two months, and we make a whole event out of it. 01:18:06.829 --> 01:18:07.230 That's the thing. 01:18:07.390 --> 01:18:11.789 It's a little bit more in a nice way, a bit more exclusive than what a vanity gallery would be. 01:18:11.949 --> 01:18:16.989 And we really try to make it as in touch with and available to as many people as we can. 01:18:17.230 --> 01:18:31.230 And then once the new year hits, again, I always love working with women in art and Gabrielle, who runs the whole Women in Art Prize, and we're gonna do another Women in Art, International Women's Day, which will be finging fantastic, and that's always just fun to do. 01:18:31.390 --> 01:18:34.109 So, but again, it's always just announced on social media. 01:18:34.270 --> 01:18:39.310 The spots usually sell out pretty quick, so I don't really need to make two or three videos to sell them out. 01:18:39.630 --> 01:18:45.869 It's just a matter of organizing where it is, how to help people, because again, I don't make a huge profit out of them. 01:18:46.029 --> 01:18:50.270 It just about keeps me going to be able to do maybe the next one a little bit easier. 01:18:50.590 --> 01:18:53.390 So it's not about the money, it's about helping them. 01:18:53.550 --> 01:19:00.029 So I put that on, I'll go there, we do the fun, we have fun, we do the show, and then I work out what the next one is and doing all that. 01:19:00.109 --> 01:19:01.949 Because again, I always show up to all of them. 01:19:02.029 --> 01:19:04.430 I can't imagine doing one where I don't show up in person. 01:19:04.670 --> 01:19:05.310 That's really cool. 01:19:05.470 --> 01:19:09.310 And there's lots of little, again, the synergy between what you're doing and what I'm doing. 01:19:09.390 --> 01:19:14.350 We've got previous guests who've been who've won the Woman in Art Prize, so there's a nice little synergy there. 01:19:14.590 --> 01:19:24.029 But again, it's that wonderful nature of you providing that community level of things to do and just wanting to help people, which I think is just wonderful. 01:19:24.189 --> 01:19:28.829 And that's why you've you're becoming so recognizable in the art world, I think, dude. 01:19:29.230 --> 01:19:29.630 Thank you. 01:19:29.789 --> 01:19:42.510 It's it is just all about helping people, and I've started started, I've had this idea for a long time now of wanting to do more art talks, wanting to do more talking with people, not like convention stuff, but just general talks. 01:19:42.750 --> 01:19:48.989 And Megan was very lucky to give me the opportunity to talk at Creative Connections Night with her exhibition the other day. 01:19:49.069 --> 01:19:50.430 And I really enjoyed that. 01:19:50.510 --> 01:19:52.029 I I absolutely loved the passion. 01:19:52.109 --> 01:19:54.989 I loved how much energy people had for the future of Creative Flight. 01:19:55.230 --> 01:20:04.430 I'm starting to look at doing a few more talks in person, being able to provide a nice little safe space for people to literally ask the dumb question. 01:20:04.510 --> 01:20:07.069 I never want anybody to be afraid of asking the dumb question. 01:20:07.310 --> 01:20:15.390 I love that, and that's I try and make myself the stupidest person in the room on a podcast because I figured if I don't know the answer, someone out there is not gonna know it either. 01:20:16.109 --> 01:20:16.350 Exactly. 01:20:16.510 --> 01:20:24.350 Never be I I turned around, we did this huge QA session, and I just turned around to everybody and said, Look, don't be afraid to ask the stupid

question. 01:20:24.510 --> 01:20:30.989 Because the stupid question, the the question you might think is stupid in your head is gonna be the question that solves somebody else. 01:20:31.310 --> 01:20:35.470 Three people, three rows behind was thinking exactly the same thing, but didn't have the courage to say it. 01:20:35.789 --> 01:20:36.189 Exactly. 01:20:36.270 --> 01:20:39.789 So I love being asked the silly questions, the dumb questions. 01:20:39.869 --> 01:20:48.029 I know dumb's a meme word sometimes, but that sometimes you just need a little bit of that kick just to say, ask the question, do this, do that. 01:20:48.109 --> 01:20:48.989 Well, you just have fun with it. 01:20:49.149 --> 01:20:49.310 Agreed. 01:20:49.630 --> 01:20:51.550 So I'm keeping to do a little bit more of that. 01:20:51.869 --> 01:20:57.069 I just know that there's gonna be lots of people that listen to this, although we're a small platform. 01:20:57.149 --> 01:21:03.149 There's lots of people who are gonna listen to this and be stoked that you're on because they already know who you are. 01:21:03.230 --> 01:21:07.390 And if they don't, they're gonna find you and go, holy shit, where the fuck was this guy phrased? 01:21:07.630 --> 01:21:25.310 And also to find the opportunities, you you know, even if someone listens to just a reel from this that we put out on social media, they find you or whatever, they're gonna get access to grants, how to write artist statements, how to get into galleries, all these things that it's the cheat sheet for every artist and creator. 01:21:25.630 --> 01:21:30.109 I'm sure probably lots of entrepreneurs as well as artists would be probably benefiting from it. 01:21:30.430 --> 01:21:31.470 Most likely, yeah. 01:21:31.710 --> 01:21:43.470 Where when somebody says entrepreneur and the art world, unfortunately, lots of people, again, it goes into that sales mindset, and people just see it of oh, it's a bit chamois, it's a bit scammy, it's not that great. 01:21:43.550 --> 01:21:45.310 They're an entrepreneur, they're not an artist. 01:21:45.470 --> 01:21:49.149 So I always love telling people I am an artist, I do paint, I do create. 01:21:49.310 --> 01:22:03.149 Unfortunately, university killed a lot of my passion for my own creativity, which I really like a little bit about that because yeah, essentially you started as the commissioned child to do the pet portraits, and your work is fantastic. 01:22:03.310 --> 01:22:05.789 I've seen your oil paintings that are on your website. 01:22:06.029 --> 01:22:06.590 Incredible. 01:22:06.989 --> 01:22:11.310 It's dealing with all these different topics around gambling addiction and all sorts of things. 01:22:11.390 --> 01:22:15.149 But the obsessions, addictions project, bold, yeah, colourful. 01:22:15.310 --> 01:22:19.949 I looked at them and honestly, I'm no art critic, but I was like, I feel like there's like auras. 01:22:20.189 --> 01:22:22.510 It felt like aura paintings almost. 01:22:22.750 --> 01:22:23.149 Yeah. 01:22:23.390 --> 01:22:26.270 That was my final year project for university. 01:22:26.510 --> 01:22:30.989 And when I first came up with the idea, they turned around to me and said, Oh, it's a bit commercial, isn't it? 01:22:31.149 --> 01:22:34.350 And I went, No, not really, thank you very much. 01:22:34.510 --> 01:22:35.869 And I said, I'm going to do this. 01:22:35.949 --> 01:22:37.869 This is what my idea is, this is my passion. 01:22:38.029 --> 01:22:45.149 I was very lucky to have my tutor, his name was Richard, for my final year, absolutely mind-blowing artist. 01:22:45.310 --> 01:22:46.670 He is so encouraging. 01:22:46.750 --> 01:22:48.829 He's an he's an incredible person just in general. 01:22:48.909 --> 01:22:49.789 It's helped me out a lot. 01:22:49.949 --> 01:22:53.550 He was like the really like one of the main tutors that helped me so much. 01:22:53.789 --> 01:23:18.909 And he really helped me put these ideas going together because I started this addiction series about the year ago again, just when I was trying to relaunch Creative Flair to make it work, just after I got back from the Tony Robbins thing, just after Carlo had been diagnosed with a brain tuge, just after I'd lost my best friend, just after all this shit had happened in my life, I wanted to start making something that I needed an outlet. 01:23:19.069 --> 01:23:21.149 Art has always been my meditation. 01:23:21.230 --> 01:23:23.789 It's always been the place that I can go and escape. 01:23:23.949 --> 01:23:31.390 And I think something important that I do as well, I think a lot of artists need to do as well, is not think that everything needs to be published. 01:23:31.550 --> 01:23:33.069 Not everything needs to be on social media. 01:23:33.230 --> 01:23:45.230 I have a sketchbook that I sketch in fairly often, but I refuse to share anything on these pages on social media or with anybody because they're my projects, they're my things. 01:23:45.550 --> 01:23:58.430 We had an art psychotherapist on season two, actually, and her episode, it was a, I don't know what you call it, a showstopper for me or a light bulb moment for me because she told me to just make the art that no one sees. 01:23:58.670 --> 01:23:59.710 So I'm with you. 01:23:59.869 --> 01:24:00.270 I'm with you. 01:24:00.430 --> 01:24:02.989 Having that stuff that no one sees is important, right? 01:24:03.230 --> 01:24:12.270 No matter how good the work is, like you don't create work, it breaks that mindset of having to create work for people to see or having to create work to be published. 01:24:12.430 --> 01:24:22.750 If I make something that is an absolute showstopper in this sketchbook, I still hold my and I want to share it, I hold myself back from sharing it because it breaks that pattern. 01:24:22.909 --> 01:24:24.670 So I like having that sort of thing. 01:24:24.750 --> 01:24:33.149 But where with uh the whole uni thing and this final year project, I did my first year and I made

some decent works, I did this, I did that, it was interesting. 01:24:33.390 --> 01:24:37.710 But my first year was more focused on just socializing, networking, living London. 01:24:37.949 --> 01:24:42.270 Second year, I'm gonna be completely honest, I actually don't remember my second year. 01:24:42.430 --> 01:24:44.670 It's a physical black hole in my brain. 01:24:44.909 --> 01:24:51.949 I have like certain flashes of certain parts of my second year purely because I hated uni so much. 01:24:52.109 --> 01:24:54.029 I just wanted to erase it from my brain. 01:24:54.189 --> 01:24:59.789 And the moment second year was over and I started going into that third year, and people ask me, Oh, what did you last year? 01:24:59.869 --> 01:25:00.750 I go, I don't know. 01:25:00.829 --> 01:25:01.470 I don't remember. 01:25:01.710 --> 01:25:02.189 Really? 01:25:02.670 --> 01:25:02.909 Wow. 01:25:03.069 --> 01:25:03.310 Yeah. 01:25:03.470 --> 01:25:04.510 It's quite scary. 01:25:04.590 --> 01:25:13.069 I think I've really, it was not traumatic, but so unenjoyable for me as an artist and as an entrepreneur. 01:25:13.149 --> 01:25:17.949 And anybody that knows the reputation of goldsmiths and knows me would understand why. 01:25:18.189 --> 01:25:21.470 And it's so horrible to be in that environment. 01:25:21.550 --> 01:25:26.670 I think I was so focused on just getting out, getting through, getting to my third year and just being over and done with it. 01:25:26.829 --> 01:25:27.869 Did it feel different? 01:25:28.029 --> 01:25:33.949 Did it almost feel a bit restrained when, like with the home education you mentioned earlier that there almost were no restraints? 01:25:34.109 --> 01:25:39.390 You could learn anything you wanted, and under the gold sits, it sounds a bit constricting, claustrophobic in some ways? 01:25:39.710 --> 01:25:40.350 A little bit. 01:25:40.510 --> 01:25:46.909 Their goldsmiths curriculum is very communistic, I would say. 01:25:47.069 --> 01:25:47.230 Okay. 01:25:47.710 --> 01:25:48.750 So it's yeah. 01:25:48.909 --> 01:25:51.470 And anybody that knows goldsmiths understands that. 01:25:51.550 --> 01:26:16.430 It's very, you know, they're talking about Marxism, they don't encourage anything that's commercial, they don't encourage sort of entrepreneurship, they don't it was so horrific for me to be in that sort of environment and dealing with caller and the tumors and like moving house and doing this because like we we had to move from accommodation into a university house thing, and it was all this chaos, so much stuff. 01:26:16.590 --> 01:26:20.350 And my second year, I genuinely just it's blacked out for me. 01:26:20.590 --> 01:26:20.829 Wow. 01:26:21.069 --> 01:26:22.430 I never enjoyed it very much. 01:26:22.590 --> 01:26:34.189 I just can't sound a bit like a bit of a perpetuation of the starving artist narrative at Goldsmiths, rather than yeah, no, you want to be commercial, you want to sell your work if you want to survive, if you want to buy paint canvas. 01:26:34.590 --> 01:26:35.949 Yeah, it was quite scary. 01:26:36.029 --> 01:26:43.710 When I went to an open day at Goldsmiths, actually, and my dad took me down for an open day just to like interview artists, have a conversation with the students. 01:26:43.949 --> 01:26:47.149 And we'd turn around and I'd ask them, Oh, what do you want to do after uni? 01:26:47.470 --> 01:26:49.630 Oh, what are you what are your ambitions to go and do? 01:26:49.789 --> 01:26:53.149 And then we everybody would turn around and go, Oh, the age-old question. 01:26:53.230 --> 01:26:54.350 And it's like, oh, I don't know. 01:26:54.430 --> 01:27:00.109 And the thing that really stuck with me was, oh, I'm gonna leave uni and then I'll go and get a real job. 01:27:00.270 --> 01:27:01.630 I was like, what do you mean a real job? 01:27:01.789 --> 01:27:03.869 You're studying art to be an artist. 01:27:04.109 --> 01:27:05.869 And that really hit me. 01:27:06.029 --> 01:27:15.470 And I think that had a bigger impact on me than I think so at the time, of being like, no, real job is a job that you're passionate about, not a job to make money. 01:27:15.630 --> 01:27:19.630 And if you're passionate about art, just learn the business mechanics of art. 01:27:19.710 --> 01:27:21.149 I was passionate about creative flair. 01:27:21.390 --> 01:27:23.550 I just needed education on the business aspect. 01:27:23.710 --> 01:27:25.149 Then it worked, and I was happy. 01:27:25.310 --> 01:27:29.630 Now it's so lucky from everybody that helps support me, I get to make it my life. 01:27:29.789 --> 01:27:31.149 It's the most beautiful thing. 01:27:31.310 --> 01:27:36.829 And so from from seeing that, I then got to understand okay, there's an issue here. 01:27:36.989 --> 01:27:46.670 And a lot of the tutors at Goldsmith are artists in their own right, but again, also have real careers like tutoring or education or doing something else. 01:27:46.750 --> 01:27:49.230 And I really was like, I'm not keen on that. 01:27:49.390 --> 01:28:06.909 But then that led me into my final year doing my addictions and projects and stuff, and a lot of that came from Carla's tumors and stuff, and all those sorts of things I was dealing with that I I hadn't really registered in myself because I was working out how to process this in myself. 01:28:07.310 --> 01:28:17.789 And I think a lot of people don't realize how much when you're in such a beautiful relationship, can actually suffer from the other person. 01:28:17.869 --> 01:28:20.909 Like all my energy went onto her, all my energy went onto this. 01:28:21.069 --> 01:28:25.230 But I'm one of those people I don't let her see just how worried I am, how afraid I am. 01:28:25.310 --> 01:28:30.989 Like we'd go to Paris to get an MRI scan, and I'm just there holding and while she's getting MRI. 01:28:31.230 --> 01:28:35.470 I don't let a lot of that sort of thing in because my version letting it out is. 01:28:35.869 --> 01:28:37.630 Is on

paint, it's on canvas. 01:28:37.789 --> 01:28:49.710 I needed to close a chapter on my life that once she got better, that was the closing end of this entire thing for us, and it was beautiful to put that on display for the the gree show. 01:28:49.869 --> 01:28:57.230 And so that was the end of that chapter for me, and then we can just move on and start doing the next thing and the next stuff and start exploring life together a bit more. 01:28:57.550 --> 01:29:11.550 Is that I don't want to psychoanalyse, but is that somewhat of a good driver for everything that you've all the stuff that you've been going through, does that act as a driver to focus on the work, the collection, creative flair, all those things? 01:29:11.869 --> 01:29:16.430 In in a good way, of I am 100% a workaholic. 01:29:16.670 --> 01:29:18.029 I know that for a fact. 01:29:18.189 --> 01:29:20.350 A lot of my family are workaholics. 01:29:20.590 --> 01:29:24.109 And especially living in London, Carla worked out one day. 01:29:24.189 --> 01:29:29.710 I would work roughly like 14 hours a day just on Creative Flare, just on this stuff. 01:29:30.029 --> 01:29:36.510 And when a lot of the achievements and like the issues started coming up, I threw myself even more into work. 01:29:36.670 --> 01:29:38.909 I didn't distance myself from her, I was always there. 01:29:39.069 --> 01:29:42.350 But it was this work was my escape, art was my escape. 01:29:42.510 --> 01:29:48.109 That's my life, that's how I find my passion and enjoyment and my escape kind of thing. 01:29:48.430 --> 01:29:52.829 So from that, it has led me to realize I need to take a day off. 01:29:52.989 --> 01:29:54.430 I take Sunday off. 01:29:54.590 --> 01:29:55.710 That's really about it. 01:29:55.869 --> 01:30:02.109 And it started really allowing me to take a slight step back and enjoy more of my time, my life, my relationship. 01:30:02.350 --> 01:30:05.630 We've moved to Paris for a year together to come and do this. 01:30:05.710 --> 01:30:07.149 We're thinking about what we're doing next year. 01:30:07.230 --> 01:30:17.069 We're looking at just enjoying life a little bit more because I get to do this as a career from those seven years of non-stop throwing myself into it. 01:30:17.230 --> 01:30:18.430 I still get to enjoy it. 01:30:18.590 --> 01:30:25.069 I still get to put myself and my energy into it, and I get to enjoy the sort of rewards with it with her. 01:30:26.430 --> 01:30:27.949 So why Paris? 01:30:28.350 --> 01:30:30.829 Apart from being one of the art capitals of the world. 01:30:31.149 --> 01:30:34.989 Because London was a little bit over for me. 01:30:35.149 --> 01:30:48.989 After three years of living in London, having such horrific education experiences in London, Carla and I originally both thought about, so we both had the plan of going to Hong Kong, actually, to spend a year in Hong Kong. 01:30:49.230 --> 01:30:52.189 Carla works in finance, so it made sense. 01:30:52.350 --> 01:30:56.750 I could launch more Creative Flair stuff in Hong Kong, Carla could do more of her finance and stuff. 01:30:57.069 --> 01:30:59.390 So that was our plan, that was our goal. 01:30:59.550 --> 01:31:00.989 Then two issues came up. 01:31:01.149 --> 01:31:07.149 One of them was the US, because Carla has always wanted to do her master's in the US. 01:31:07.710 --> 01:31:15.630 So it became very tricky to be able to go to Hong Kong or anything in China to then be able to apply for a visa to go and live in the US. 01:31:15.789 --> 01:31:16.829 So that was one issue. 01:31:16.989 --> 01:31:27.230 The second issue is at the start of the year, her mother had a stroke and she lost friends in the Crane Montana fire as well, which was whole other issues and stuff. 01:31:27.390 --> 01:31:33.230 But it made us realize that we needed to not completely change our worlds. 01:31:33.470 --> 01:31:35.470 We just needed a different change of scene. 01:31:35.710 --> 01:31:39.949 My career is very heavily built and based in London. 01:31:40.270 --> 01:31:46.029 And I did have a little bit of a fear of being in Hong Kong and being so far away from everything that I'd built. 01:31:46.270 --> 01:31:49.069 So we both agreed that Paris was fantastic. 01:31:49.310 --> 01:31:51.149 We know amazing doctors here. 01:31:51.470 --> 01:31:56.109 Carla's French anyway, and her parents live in Switzerland. 01:31:56.270 --> 01:31:58.510 It's like a three-hour train ride for us to get there. 01:31:58.750 --> 01:32:00.189 My family lives in the UK. 01:32:00.270 --> 01:32:02.989 If something happens, we can easily get back to the UK. 01:32:03.230 --> 01:32:18.189 So it just became an easier alternative as a change of scene and a change of pace for our lives to start building together away from education and university, and we can just start enjoying what we try and build together. 01:32:18.430 --> 01:32:20.750 And what you've built is facilitating this. 01:32:20.909 --> 01:32:23.949 Presumably, you could work wherever you wanted to. 01:32:24.590 --> 01:32:24.989 Oh, yeah. 01:32:25.149 --> 01:32:32.189 When I was younger, and uh Carl and I have had so many conversations about this is I've always dreamed of doing digital nomading. 01:32:32.510 --> 01:32:33.390 Always wanted to do that. 01:32:33.470 --> 01:32:37.710 And I've got some amazing programming friends, digital nomad all over the world. 01:32:37.869 --> 01:32:40.189 I look at them and go, you're lucky bastards. 01:32:40.510 --> 01:32:52.350 But we actually are looking at what we want to do next year, and we're looking at going to certain parts of Asia or maybe Australia or something and doing a bit of digital nomading around that, building up some finances, being able to afford doing this. 01:32:52.430 --> 01:32:57.869 And so I can continue doing Creative Flair, I can schedule video, I can talk to people, I can run lives. 01:32:58.029 --> 01:32:58.909 It's just passion. 01:32:59.069 --> 01:33:02.750 And then Carla works in different jobs

doing finance and enjoys doing her own thing. 01:33:02.829 --> 01:33:05.949 So it's one of those beautiful balances of what we've got going. 01:33:06.270 --> 01:33:06.989 Amazing. 01:33:07.230 --> 01:33:14.590 We could have come on here and spoken about all the wonderful information that you provide to Eddie Well and got you to go, whoa, how do you write the perfect artist statement? 01:33:14.750 --> 01:33:15.390 How do you do this? 01:33:15.470 --> 01:33:16.029 How do you do that? 01:33:16.189 --> 01:33:19.470 But people just need to go and find your account and all that information's there. 01:33:19.550 --> 01:33:25.789 And if it's not there, it'll be in your online visible book or part of your inner studio network. 01:33:26.109 --> 01:33:28.750 It's not, people just send me a message and I answer it. 01:33:28.989 --> 01:33:29.710 It's not a question. 01:33:29.949 --> 01:33:32.670 Ask, don't be afraid to ask the bloody question. 01:33:32.909 --> 01:33:33.789 There you go. 01:33:34.029 --> 01:33:39.789 Well, I think we've covered a lot of stuff here, but we do have a closing tradition on the Creative Noeland podcast. 01:33:39.949 --> 01:33:43.069 We ask for some sort of quote that resonates with you. 01:33:43.310 --> 01:33:53.630 And also, I know your list is going to be uh A4 page long, but someone in your network who you think might be an interesting guest to come on the Creative Noeland podcast in the future. 01:33:54.270 --> 01:33:56.189 I've got a thousand bloody quotes. 01:33:56.430 --> 01:34:10.109 I do think my favorite quotes for my own life and for other people to be able to really make their dreams happen is that quote I said earlier of information without action is expensive entertainment. 01:34:10.430 --> 01:34:14.109 That's my favorite quote to be able to live by and just pursue. 01:34:14.350 --> 01:34:17.710 And then I send you a bunch of other people to come on here already. 01:34:17.869 --> 01:34:22.510 I think one of them that would be really interesting for you would be Felicia Beck. 01:34:22.670 --> 01:34:25.149 She runs this amazing thing. 01:34:25.310 --> 01:34:37.949 She's 19 and she runs this amazing thing called Beckon with her friend Mia, but they together run this fantastic artist residency called Beckon, where they take artists from all over the world, really. 01:34:38.109 --> 01:34:45.310 They, the two of them, find the most beautiful locations to run these artist residencies and put on their own amazing shows. 01:34:45.390 --> 01:34:49.310 They run collector dinners and they've got an amazing thing going. 01:34:49.470 --> 01:34:53.550 And another person I think you'd be really interested in would be Megan Scarborough. 01:34:53.630 --> 01:34:55.310 I think Megan's last name is Scarborough. 01:34:56.109 --> 01:34:56.829 Very sure it is. 01:34:56.989 --> 01:34:57.630 I will find it. 01:34:57.710 --> 01:35:01.230 And then she'll message me after this and go, You got my last name wrong, you twat. 01:35:01.550 --> 01:35:06.189 What she's doing with Art Pulse London, what she's doing with that is absolutely incredible. 01:35:06.270 --> 01:35:09.949 I think that's going to be so amazing for more and more artists. 01:35:10.270 --> 01:35:19.069 Because we had a conversation about this as well when I went to her thing, and somebody asked me of what's your prediction of the art world over the next five years. 01:35:19.230 --> 01:35:23.470 And I think that's it's a really interesting thing, if you don't mind me taking five more minutes. 01:35:23.630 --> 01:35:24.270 Go for it, buddy. 01:35:24.829 --> 01:35:46.189 I'm actually very heavily invested and pursuing this idea of where the art world will be in the next five years, because it's changed so much from when I first got more involved in the art world to being more recognized in the art world, to being what some people would say a leading figure in the art world or top of my industry of what I do. 01:35:46.430 --> 01:35:51.949 And I'm very lucky to be able to have so many insights and so much knowledge from so many different people. 01:35:52.430 --> 01:36:07.069 And I think one of the things that's really going to change that we have seen is more and more galleries going out of business, more and more galleries shifting away from art fairs, more and more galleries ruining their own reputations and names. 01:36:07.550 --> 01:36:13.710 In the next five years, we're going to see a more artist collective focused network. 01:36:13.869 --> 01:36:15.789 And that's the best way I could describe it. 01:36:16.029 --> 01:36:20.989 And that essentially means more and more artists are going to start connecting and communicating with each other. 01:36:21.310 --> 01:36:30.670 As we used to have artist groups like the Damien Hearst group and the Young Artists of Britain collectives, they don't really happen so much anymore, but I think they're going to make a huge comeback. 01:36:31.069 --> 01:36:44.270 And artists themselves are going to start approaching galleries together to rent out gallery spaces, gallery walls and the galleries' name to put on their own show. 01:36:44.590 --> 01:37:00.350 I think artists are going to become so much more educated in how the business side of art works because people believe, and this is where galleries make money, galleries take that 50% commission because they know how the business works. 01:37:00.750 --> 01:37:17.550 So I think instead of galleries starting to approach artists, and a lot of galleries more recently as well, have stopped looking so much at the quality of the work and what associates with their name, and they've started looking more at social media following of an artist. 01:37:17.630 --> 01:37:21.470 They've been doing that in film and movie industry for ages now. 01:37:21.710 --> 01:37:23.949 It started to hit more and more of the art world. 01:37:24.029 --> 01:37:44.670 So I think more artists are going to get together, create their own groups, rent out gallery, use the

gallery name, see how much connections they get out of the gallery, and that will be a whole different industry, which will keep the gallery scene alive, but it's going to shift and morph in its own special, unique way as artists learn more about how the business world, art, and marketing works. 01:37:44.989 --> 01:37:45.710 Interesting. 01:37:45.869 --> 01:37:54.350 And it's something that we're definitely going to explore on season three, because I think we might have a couple of gallery owners of different aspects potentially coming on as guests. 01:37:54.510 --> 01:38:02.510 The other thing we've been requested, I don't know whether this is something we can talk off camera about, but is I've been requested people would like to hear from art buyers. 01:38:02.670 --> 01:38:09.470 Not as in art buyers from agencies, but as in people that actually go to galleries and who actually put their pocket in to buy artwork. 01:38:09.710 --> 01:38:10.189 I'm one of them. 01:38:10.350 --> 01:38:10.750 There you go. 01:38:10.909 --> 01:38:11.949 There you are, ladies and gentlemen. 01:38:12.109 --> 01:38:12.750 Tick box. 01:38:13.069 --> 01:38:15.069 Creative entrepreneur, James Carter. 01:38:15.149 --> 01:38:15.630 There you go. 01:38:15.869 --> 01:38:16.829 And collectors. 01:38:16.909 --> 01:38:18.350 So we've ticked a double box there. 01:38:18.430 --> 01:38:18.989 Double box. 01:38:19.149 --> 01:38:23.230 I mean, yeah, I don't necessarily collect a lot of art from galleries. 01:38:23.390 --> 01:38:27.869 I actually prefer collecting art directly from artist individuals and art fairs. 01:38:28.189 --> 01:38:33.310 You are now about to be bombarded by everybody's artwork, but I'm sure you're already bombarded by a lot of givers of art. 01:38:33.470 --> 01:38:34.909 Well, you wouldn't believe it. 01:38:34.989 --> 01:38:35.630 It's amazing. 01:38:35.710 --> 01:38:36.189 But I love it. 01:38:36.350 --> 01:38:37.630 It's one of the things I genuinely love. 01:38:37.710 --> 01:38:40.350 If somebody thinks I'm like, well, absolutely, toss it in my way. 01:38:40.430 --> 01:38:40.909 It's great. 01:38:41.069 --> 01:38:49.230 But literally last night, Carla and I have been unpacking all of our artworks here in the Paris apartment, and we've just gone, holy crap, we own a lot of art. 01:38:49.390 --> 01:38:51.789 And Carla loves her own art collections. 01:38:51.869 --> 01:38:54.829 She, her family, they love collecting arts and stuff as well. 01:38:55.069 --> 01:39:00.189 But then my sort of world is I want to collect something for the memories, for the idea. 01:39:00.350 --> 01:39:05.949 Not so much of the art investment side, but because I genuinely love the artist, I want to support that artist. 01:39:06.029 --> 01:39:09.789 We have a good connection and I love the sort of work that they make as well. 01:39:09.949 --> 01:39:13.230 And then every now and again I see something in a gallery and go, ooh, it's pretty. 01:39:13.390 --> 01:39:17.789 But galleries don't allow artists to sell directly so much anymore. 01:39:17.949 --> 01:39:20.829 And if I'm talking with an artist, I want to buy direct from the artist. 01:39:20.989 --> 01:39:23.390 Whereas I'll go to somewhere like the Affordable Art Fair. 01:39:23.550 --> 01:39:29.230 Carla and I bought our first piece together from the Affordable Art Fair of this beautiful bronze sculpture. 01:39:29.470 --> 01:39:34.430 And we can bought that from a gallery, iContemporary gallery, I think it was. 01:39:34.590 --> 01:39:36.270 And it's beautiful sculpture, beautiful work. 01:39:36.430 --> 01:39:40.750 But I think that will be really interesting to have some conversations about more buyers and collectors. 01:39:40.989 --> 01:39:44.350 I only see Creative Noble Land getting bigger and bigger. 01:39:45.230 --> 01:39:46.189 I'm waiting for it. 01:39:46.510 --> 01:39:48.909 Mate, this has been just a wonderful chat. 01:39:48.989 --> 01:40:02.590 And as I say, people, I wanted it to be more about your story and how you got to here rather than just you listing off a bunch of relevant resources or token tip bits that artists can use because they can find that and we want to direct people to you. 01:40:02.829 --> 01:40:07.069 So, James, thank you so much once again for doing the Creative No Land podcast. 01:40:07.230 --> 01:40:19.789 I think this is going to be, I'll be honest, beneficial for us and getting our what we're trying to do out there as well, because obviously you have shot to social media fame, that seven-year overnight success that you are, mate. 01:40:20.029 --> 01:40:21.630 Yeah, I got lucky. 01:40:22.029 --> 01:40:24.750 The scary bit is when you get swarmed in a gallery. 01:40:24.829 --> 01:40:26.109 That one's the scary one. 01:40:26.270 --> 01:40:36.829 I can deal with the people asking the questions and stuff, but when a bunch of artists get a little bit too tipsy and everybody just wants a photo and they start knocking Carla's drink out of her hand, that's the limit. 01:40:37.069 --> 01:40:37.390 Yeah. 01:40:37.550 --> 01:40:40.350 You're gonna start having to employ security soon. 01:40:40.510 --> 01:40:44.350 And now I'll just bring you along and then we can just go, no, redirect to Creative Noel. 01:40:44.670 --> 01:40:45.789 Do that, she's better. 01:40:46.189 --> 01:40:47.869 He knows how to talk more than I do. 01:40:48.109 --> 01:40:49.069 I'm not sure about that. 01:40:49.149 --> 01:40:58.510 I'm I've been taking notes from everything you've been doing for a long time, mate, and I'm just glad that you are now part of the Creative Nobel family because that's again the part of the community. 01:40:58.750 --> 01:41:10.029 It's something I want to build on, it's something I have lots of ideas for the progression of Creative Nobel and beyond the podcast to live events, to to gallery events, to all sorts of things. 01:41:10.270 --> 01:41:19.149 So I'm just trying to shine a light on some amazing people and some amazing creatives who are doing

wonderful things, and you, sir, are a fantastic example of that. 01:41:19.230 --> 01:41:19.949 So thank you again. 01:41:20.189 --> 01:41:20.829 Thank you very much. 01:41:20.989 --> 01:41:22.109 Thank you very much for having me on. 01:41:22.189 --> 01:41:34.029 It's it is genuinely people like you that want to shine that light and have that interest, that investment and that passion to actually want to share that and not just not just for yourself, but for so many other people. 01:41:34.189 --> 01:41:35.069 This is gonna be huge. 01:41:35.149 --> 01:41:36.109 It's gonna be amazing. 01:41:36.270 --> 01:41:46.909 The more and more you talk, the more and more you interview people, the more and more of these conversations, connections, and collaborations happen, the better it's gonna be and more beneficial it's gonna be for so many people. 01:41:46.989 --> 01:41:52.109 And you can tell when somebody's got that passion and that energy rather than just, oh yeah, let's do a conversation. 01:41:52.270 --> 01:41:52.989 It's so amazing. 01:41:53.069 --> 01:41:54.430 So thank you so much for having me, mate. 01:41:54.670 --> 01:41:55.630 Thank you so much, mate. 01:41:55.710 --> 01:42:05.470 And as I say, I think we're just both trying to do something simple and trying to tell people that the starving artist narrative is it doesn't need to be a thing if you're willing to take a bit of action. 01:42:05.630 --> 01:42:08.909 And James, once again, thank you so much for joining us. 01:42:08.989 --> 01:42:12.430 And I know that this is gonna be so beneficial for so many people listening. 01:42:12.510 --> 01:42:25.710 And go find James, check out everything that he's doing, check out Creative Flair, check out the Billboard project, go and buy the online book, which will be forever updated by the sounds of it, and just support whatever James is doing as well. 01:42:25.789 --> 01:42:26.270 We appreciate it. 01:42:26.510 --> 01:42:27.310 Thanks so much, mate. 01:42:27.470 --> 01:42:28.430 It's gonna be amazing. 01:42:28.590 --> 01:42:29.390 Thank you so much, mate. 01:42:29.630 --> 01:42:30.750 Been awesome. 01:42:31.949 --> 01:42:35.069 Thanks for listening to the Creative Nobeland podcast. 01:42:35.310 --> 01:42:42.750 If you found anything in this episode useful or inspiring, please consider subscribing or sharing it with a friend. 01:42:42.989 --> 01:42:50.909 You can also help the podcast by clicking the support the show link in the show notes or by grabbing yourself something from the Creative Nobelland shop. 01:42:51.069 --> 01:43:00.109 And here's the bonus when you join the community through our website, you'll get a special discount code that gives you free shipping on all orders. 01:43:00.750 --> 01:43:05.069 So, before you buy anything, be sure to join the community. 01:43:05.310 --> 01:43:10.109 Every bit of support helps us keep sharing these inspiring stories. 01:43:10.430 --> 01:43:17.310 So, thanks again for listening, and until next time, explore, inspire, and create. 01:43:18.189 --> 01:43:24.029 Better to have a short life that is full of what you like doing than a long life spent in a miserable way.