Full Transcript for Your Biggest Fall Questions pt.2 - with Kate Grenci - CampHacker #234

is just a rewrite of it to make it specific, but this happens quite often. 00:02:37.840 --> 00:02:42.479 So we've pulled it into one specific question, one specific example. 00:02:42.719 --> 00:02:48.800 We had a situation this summer where a family pulled their kids because our values and their values didn't line up. 00:02:48.960 --> 00:02:53.520 How do I use that to make sure we're enrolling the right families going forward? 00:02:54.080 --> 00:02:59.120 And I know, Chris, that this is a thing that you have lots of thoughts on, but I'm gonna take it to Kate first to start. 00:02:59.439 --> 00:03:01.039 Smart, smart, yeah. 00:03:02.479 --> 00:03:06.319 How do how do we make sure we're getting families whose values align with us? 00:03:06.639 --> 00:03:07.039 Yeah. 00:03:07.280 --> 00:03:20.000 So for me, um, I have said this time and time again, and I know that it is a difficult thing for some camp directors and camp administrators to hear because they might have some pride involved. 00:03:20.159 --> 00:03:21.599 There's enrollment pressure. 00:03:21.759 --> 00:03:25.120 I I get it, both are understandable and make sense to me. 00:03:25.439 --> 00:03:30.800 But I firmly believe that there is a camp for every child, but it might not be my camp, and that's okay. 00:03:31.439 --> 00:03:40.000 So ultimately, we want the relationship to be a good fit for everyone because we want campers to have positive and safe and successful experiences. 00:03:40.400 --> 00:03:55.280 So I think that making sure your mission and your values and what the experience looks like, what you actually offer, what can be expected, how we respond to conflict, what families should expect from us, all of that. 00:03:55.439 --> 00:04:00.639 If that's not communicated in a very clear way, then you're setting everyone up for failure. 00:04:00.800 --> 00:04:03.599 And I don't think it's a question of how do we prevent people from leaving. 00:04:03.759 --> 00:04:07.759 I think it's a question of managing expectations and being very clear. 00:04:07.919 --> 00:04:10.960 Um, and I know that both I've heard both of you say clear is kind. 00:04:11.120 --> 00:04:14.400 So that's it for me for sure. 00:04:15.520 --> 00:04:16.160 Thank you. 00:04:16.399 --> 00:04:18.399 And that's the end of our episode. 00:04:19.040 --> 00:04:19.360 Okay. 00:04:19.600 --> 00:04:20.480 Who knew it was kind? 00:04:21.360 --> 00:04:25.040 I still have my 90-minute TED talk on this particular topic. 00:04:25.360 --> 00:04:27.279 So I'll let you strap in. 00:04:27.839 --> 00:04:29.439 I can let you warm up your voice, Chris. 00:04:29.519 --> 00:04:30.639 I'll I'll go next. 00:04:30.959 --> 00:04:32.000 Okay, smart. 00:04:32.319 --> 00:04:34.480 I clear is kind, and yes, thank you. 00:04:34.560 --> 00:04:41.600 That's such that's the point um of this, but the some of the specifics about this. 00:04:42.160 --> 00:04:45.600 You need to clearly state who you are and who you serve. 00:04:45.920 --> 00:04:52.800 Um,

and that can't be all kids, as much as I have fought with camp workers for years to say, but all kids belong here. 00:04:52.959 --> 00:04:57.040 As Kate said, all kids belong at a camp, just not necessarily at your camp. 00:04:57.199 --> 00:05:02.879 And if you're not creating a safe environment for them to join, then that is a lie. 00:05:03.279 --> 00:05:05.199 Your camp is not for all kids. 00:05:05.439 --> 00:05:09.279 Um, and but I want to talk about some specifics. 00:05:09.360 --> 00:05:15.279 I think you need to clearly say on your front page of your website, even the most basic things. 00:05:15.439 --> 00:05:19.839 We are co-edcamp, we are a camp for girls. 00:05:20.319 --> 00:05:23.199 Sometimes it takes two or three clicks to figure that out. 00:05:23.360 --> 00:05:31.279 If I didn't know the clues, because I will look at so many camp websites or I didn't know the camp, sometimes you're like, would you please just say that you're a camp for boys in Wisconsin? 00:05:31.519 --> 00:05:35.680 And or we're Girl Sky Camp or whatever it is, say that clearly. 00:05:35.839 --> 00:05:43.519 And then also when you're making a statement, don't use a lot of generics or things that every other camp could say. 00:05:43.920 --> 00:05:49.920 You know, making lifelong friendships, good grief that is so worn out. 00:05:50.079 --> 00:05:52.800 Um, and every other camp wants to say that. 00:05:53.040 --> 00:06:03.120 Um, and I think that there's a couple of other things that you should, and this is an old right, but that you should think about when you're stating who you are and her who you serve. 00:06:03.360 --> 00:06:05.360 Number one, don't use the word magic. 00:06:05.600 --> 00:06:11.279 Camp magic to you means something completely different than it does to parents or other people. 00:06:11.920 --> 00:06:20.160 Um when you describe our camp as magic, you're effectively saying that we're setting your family up to be fooled. 00:06:20.560 --> 00:06:22.800 And there's a lot of implications for that. 00:06:22.879 --> 00:06:29.920 So the camp is magic, camp magic is a word that I think other camp people understand, although they know it's a little different for you than it is for me. 00:06:30.160 --> 00:06:33.120 Parents who don't have camp in the background don't get that. 00:06:33.279 --> 00:06:36.240 It sounds irresponsible. 00:06:36.480 --> 00:06:38.079 Away you go, Chris Hudson. 00:06:38.720 --> 00:06:39.439 Okay, everyone. 00:06:40.480 --> 00:06:43.600 Thank thanks for opening for me because here are couple. 00:06:43.680 --> 00:06:45.040 No, I'm gonna keep this real short. 00:06:45.199 --> 00:06:46.720 Um, a couple of things. 00:06:47.040 --> 00:06:50.160 Travis, I cannot stress enough. 00:06:50.560 --> 00:06:54.639 My crusade against the term camp magic. 00:06:55.600 --> 00:06:56.879 Listen up, everyone. 00:06:57.040 --> 00:07:03.040 We're selling a product, like we're in the capitalist environment, so we have to sell what we're actually selling. 00:07:03.279 --> 00:07:08.240 Would you buy something if someone, if you walked up to a counter and you're like, so what's this product? 00:07:08.319 --> 00:07:09.839 And they're like, It's magic. 00:07:11.120 --> 00:07:13.439 And and you're like, Great, can I sell specifics? 00:07:13.680 --> 00:07:14.319 Oh, sure. 00:07:14.399 --> 00:07:15.279 It's gonna be great. 00:07:15.360 --> 00:07:17.680 It's so much fun, it's magic. 00:07:17.839 --> 00:07:22.800 Tell me, would you trust that person if they really can't be specific about what it is they're offering? 00:07:22.959 --> 00:07:24.560 Oh, and I forgot the other kick. 00:07:24.639 --> 00:07:31.759 Um, the service you're looking for is to put the most valuable thing you have, like away from you to experience magic. 00:07:31.920 --> 00:07:33.199 That's not smart. 00:07:33.439 --> 00:07:35.839 That's like not a smart thing for a parent to do. 00:07:36.079 --> 00:07:37.920 We need to stop talking about that. 00:07:38.079 --> 00:07:39.040 But that wasn't the question. 00:07:39.120 --> 00:07:40.160 The question was about value. 00:07:40.240 --> 00:07:41.279 So let's get to it. 00:07:41.600 --> 00:07:42.720 Kate already said it. 00:07:42.879 --> 00:07:48.079 So if you're waiting for the climate, the climactic Chris Hudson response, Kate already said it. 00:07:48.240 --> 00:07:51.920 Listen, not everything is for everybody. 00:07:52.319 --> 00:08:10.079 Over the past 35, 40 years in the inclusion space, um, in the 80s and 90s, especially, we thought the one way to really target all the difference differentiation that was happening back then in the 80s, especially in education, was to put everyone together in everything, right? 00:08:10.240 --> 00:08:16.560 And that, and we've moved forward with that, with our idea of inclusion, is we do everything for everybody all at once everywhere. 00:08:16.800 --> 00:08:21.120 But what we're seeing over time is that that actually ends up exploiting groups. 00:08:21.279 --> 00:08:28.000 Because the thing is, is that, and Travis had said this just now, we need to include everyone safely. 00:08:28.240 --> 00:08:33.279 If you can't include everyone safely, then you're actually exploiting people for your benefit. 00:08:33.519 --> 00:08:41.919 So when people say we are a camp for all children, what you're actually saying is that we're well we're happy to take anyone's money. 00:08:42.159 --> 00:08:46.960 Because I'll tell you something, you are not prepared for all children. 00:08:47.200 --> 00:08:49.120 You're not prepared for all children. 00:08:49.360 --> 00:08:55.360 And it's not just, it's not just irresponsible, it's actively aggressive. 00:08:55.600 --> 00:09:04.879 That's a that's a it's a strange, like honestly, as business people, it it's a strange thing to say, oh yeah, I can accommodate any situation. 00:09:05.200 --> 00:09:06.879 That's simply not true. 00:09:07.039 --> 00:09:27.039 And given that our actual jobs are stewards of safety, to lead a parent or a

guardian into a false sense that I can take care of your child when not only can I not only I can't I, I've made no plans to do so, is I mean, and I'm I'm gonna say this because I'm dramatic, it's almost criminal. 00:09:27.200 --> 00:09:30.960 I'm not certain what how I'm not certain how you can do that. 00:09:31.279 --> 00:09:33.519 So not every camp is for everybody. 00:09:33.600 --> 00:09:39.120 And I I tell this to people at our camp all the time because, and everyone's has this story, right? 00:09:39.279 --> 00:09:46.799 Like someone registers, they show up, they're like a quadriplegic and a gurney, and you're like, wait a minute, can we handle this? 00:09:46.960 --> 00:10:05.200 Like everyone has this where parents don't want to communicate to us exactly what the full extent of their children's needs are because they don't want them to be excluded, which tells us a lot about it, tells us a lot about where those parents are coming from, perhaps as part of our job function is really helping people find the right camp for them. 00:10:05.440 --> 00:10:05.919 Right. 00:10:06.159 --> 00:10:09.840 People approach you and they want to want to send their kids to your camp. 00:10:10.000 --> 00:10:16.080 It's worth a conversation to check in with them about, you know, whatever your top line values are. 00:10:16.320 --> 00:10:17.039 Check in with them. 00:10:17.120 --> 00:10:22.799 And if it doesn't match up, not just jumping them, being like, oh, here's a couple other places I would recommend you turn. 00:10:22.960 --> 00:10:23.200 Right. 00:10:23.279 --> 00:10:31.120 That's the way that we should, that's the way we should be running our community anyway, especially it, especially because we cannot take everybody. 00:10:31.360 --> 00:10:33.039 One other thing on this point. 00:10:33.519 --> 00:10:38.720 I I see this a lot just because a lot of what I talk about is racism and diversity and inclusion. 00:10:39.039 --> 00:10:43.200 Um and maybe I'm talking to you if you're listening to this. 00:10:43.360 --> 00:10:46.000 Um, your camp's all white, right? 00:10:46.399 --> 00:10:58.159 And you feel a particular way about that because you are a uh you are a smart and compassionate person, and you understand that that all-white space is doing some sort of work, right? 00:10:58.240 --> 00:11:00.559 It's doing some sort of supremacist work, right? 00:11:00.799 --> 00:11:04.879 So you feel badly about it, not so badly that you want to change it. 00:11:05.600 --> 00:11:08.159 I'm here to tell you that's okay. 00:11:08.639 --> 00:11:13.120 There is an audience, you're already in business, you will continue to be in business. 00:11:13.360 --> 00:11:21.840 You do not have to implicate um gender minorities, different ethnicities and races, or kids of different abilities. 00:11:22.000 --> 00:11:26.639 You don't have to implicate them in your bid to expand your base. 00:11:27.279 --> 00:11:36.960 There are people out there who will send their children to your camp if

you are specific about what it is that you believe, what it is that you do, and what it is that you say. 00:11:37.200 --> 00:11:38.159 Trust that. 00:11:38.480 --> 00:11:39.440 Trust it. 00:11:40.000 --> 00:11:41.519 All right, that's all I had to say. 00:11:41.840 --> 00:11:45.519 Well, I think, I mean, communicating your values is incredibly important. 00:11:45.679 --> 00:11:51.120 It just saves you a lot of time and energy because you don't have to deal with the disappointed people. 00:11:51.679 --> 00:11:52.799 I just don't know why you wouldn't. 00:11:53.200 --> 00:11:53.759 Yeah. 00:11:54.399 --> 00:11:55.679 I just don't know why you wouldn't. 00:11:56.159 --> 00:11:57.039 A communication problem. 00:11:57.360 --> 00:12:13.120 I think Chris is right that I think that camps who know who they are too well at serving and know what their values are, um, don't need to open up the camp to be for all kids. 00:12:13.200 --> 00:12:23.120 What they need is to better communicate who they are and and the values, like who they serve and and what their families get out of being a part of that. 00:12:23.519 --> 00:12:32.559 So just saying we're a camp for all, I think is just avoiding doing marketing, which a lot of camp directors don't like to do. 00:12:33.200 --> 00:12:43.919 And I think it's unfair and unreasonable that something, you know, it takes a controversy or it takes a conflict and an issue for your values to become suddenly aware to everyone. 00:12:44.240 --> 00:12:57.919 So, and I also think that as directors, as professionals, as administrators, a family choosing another camp before, you know, enrolling because they understand who that camp is isn't a failure. 00:12:58.159 --> 00:13:05.039 It means that somebody has successfully set expectations and has made what they do very clear. 00:13:05.360 --> 00:13:12.240 So it might be a failure on your part for not being clear, or it might be a success on your part for being very clear. 00:13:12.399 --> 00:13:18.159 So that they know what they're getting, you know what you're getting into, and everybody makes a choice that is safe and successful. 00:13:18.240 --> 00:13:36.879 And Chris, I don't think using the word criminal was aggressive at all because it it is morally reprehensible, would probably be a little bit worse, but you don't want to set people up for a situation where they're going to fail or be unsuccessful or it's not going to be safe for them, especially children. 00:13:37.120 --> 00:13:38.480 Especially children. 00:13:39.600 --> 00:13:46.399 And on that tip, I I I think I I just I've always thought this way burning staff is a sin. 00:13:46.639 --> 00:13:50.399 Because like I say this every week is that our staff is our greatest resource. 00:13:50.639 --> 00:13:59.120 Um when you promise parents that you will take care of children that you cannot take care of, that falls to the the line staff. 00:13:59.519 --> 00:14:11.519 And so they came expecting one thing, um, and they show up, and the the amount of work that they do has quadrupled or quintipled because you couldn't say no to one registration fee. 00:14:11.759 --> 00:14:15.679 Um and that staff, who you're already not paying much money, right? 00:14:15.840 --> 00:14:19.200 Um, they just won't come back because you're not paying them much money. 00:14:19.440 --> 00:14:21.600 And you lied to them and then overwork them. 00:14:21.840 --> 00:14:27.919 I, you know, we talked about a staff in crisis in camping every year over year over year. 00:14:28.080 --> 00:14:35.360 But what we don't talk enough about is how those workers get treated and what they get promised and what they're invited to do when they arrive. 00:14:35.600 --> 00:14:52.960 So if we wanna, if we want to stop talking about a staff in crisis, maybe we should start thinking about not treating these young people, these young international people, as if they're disposable, as if there's a never-ending supply of people who want to come to America and work here. 00:14:53.120 --> 00:15:01.519 Because I don't know if you've been paying attention to the news, but the supply of people who want to come to America is drying up for reasons of safety and sanity. 00:15:01.840 --> 00:15:10.000 So perhaps we stop telling people we will do things that we cannot do and then giving it to our staff to do. 00:15:10.240 --> 00:15:19.840 It's there is an end there, and that end is them telling all their friends to not work at camps because it's a pain in the ass and they pay you nothing. 00:15:20.159 --> 00:15:26.879 We need to give them an experience that they're gonna want to replicate and they're gonna want to talk about. 00:15:27.120 --> 00:15:32.720 So think about that when you're like, oh, but oh, but I don't want to I want to be able to capture this market. 00:15:32.799 --> 00:15:34.799 That let someone else capture that market. 00:15:34.960 --> 00:15:35.919 You're good. 00:15:36.720 --> 00:15:37.039 Yeah. 00:15:37.279 --> 00:15:38.559 Clarity over compromise. 00:15:38.799 --> 00:15:41.039 Always, always be clear and be honest. 00:15:41.200 --> 00:15:44.480 Like just at the end of the day, there's no downside. 00:15:44.720 --> 00:15:45.840 There really isn't. 00:15:46.080 --> 00:15:46.480 Yeah. 00:15:46.720 --> 00:15:50.559 I I want to say one other thing on communication and clarity. 00:15:51.039 --> 00:15:58.720 We all know that parents don't read, and so sometimes you can say these things a lot and they can still miss them. 00:15:58.960 --> 00:16:08.799 And I think smart camps have build a little um a little exit into the post-registration emails. 00:16:08.960 --> 00:16:19.120 Like reiterate in the first two weeks of them being registered that these here's our values and here's how we deal with them, or here's how that is how that's lived at our camps. 00:16:19.279 --> 00:16:23.759 And if that doesn't align with your family, click here to get your money back. 00:16:24.000 --> 00:16:45.840 Like because now that they're

registered, they're paying a little more attention to the detail stuff, and so you know, just give them a way out because it's better that those families find another place that's right for their kid because that's what's best for their kid, and better that those families aren't pissed off and screaming on the internet nine months later. 00:16:46.159 --> 00:16:49.759 I everyone's registration process is is different. 00:16:50.000 --> 00:16:58.720 Um at Camp Highlight, we call every family, every new family we call, we have an interview and we interview the kid. 00:16:59.039 --> 00:17:06.720 Um we do that for a couple of reasons, for all the reasons that you're thinking, but also to you know reinforce our values. 00:17:07.039 --> 00:17:11.279 And I I hate to speak in negatives, talk about what we can't handle. 00:17:11.839 --> 00:17:12.880 That's really upfront. 00:17:13.039 --> 00:17:17.440 Like, we can't handle kids with physical disabilities because there's no ramps. 00:17:17.680 --> 00:17:20.960 Um, and uh the whole thing is very hilly. 00:17:21.200 --> 00:17:23.599 So, like, that's something we can't do. 00:17:23.920 --> 00:17:35.920 We learned a while back that we cannot there, there's certain um autism spectrum behaviors and there's certain dis um uh disorders and learning display that we cannot handle. 00:17:36.079 --> 00:17:38.880 And we're really upfront about that because people need to know. 00:17:38.960 --> 00:17:40.319 And I'll say something, Travis. 00:17:40.480 --> 00:17:47.519 Yes, parents don't read, but when parents are and I I can't speak for all parents, I know this is a person of color. 00:17:47.759 --> 00:18:02.000 Um when you're looking for a service like this, if you're a person of color or gender minority or a queer person, the way that your antenna are out to try and collect all the information that you can, that your child will be safe there. 00:18:02.160 --> 00:18:13.680 Like parents are attuned to that identity stuff, sending your kid away, like people who have been uh pressed historically are well aware, well aware of what they're looking for. 00:18:13.920 --> 00:18:15.440 So you can just bring it to them. 00:18:15.680 --> 00:18:19.759 If you cannot, if you can't handle trans campers, you know who would love to hear about that? 00:18:20.000 --> 00:18:21.440 Parents of trans campers. 00:18:21.599 --> 00:18:26.799 If you can handle trans staff, you know who would love to hear about that before they buy a transatlantic ticket? 00:18:27.039 --> 00:18:30.960 Um, young trans people who are thinking about a place to work in America. 00:18:31.200 --> 00:18:38.640 If there's there's no there there, don't burn people and in the worst way possible, like in the most predatory way possible. 00:18:38.880 --> 00:18:40.720 It is morally reprehensible, Kate. 00:18:40.799 --> 00:18:41.839 I won't back off from that. 00:18:41.920 --> 00:18:44.640 It's completely morally what kind of person does that? 00:18:44.799 --> 00:18:51.119 Like

make your marketing align with what you're delivering, otherwise, you are the a version of a snake oil salesman. 00:18:51.279 --> 00:18:52.880 Come on, people, we're better than that. 00:18:53.039 --> 00:18:55.599 Yeah, so it just comes down to marketing. 00:18:55.839 --> 00:18:58.960 Be like, be loud and be proud about what you're offering. 00:18:59.119 --> 00:19:04.240 Yeah, you know, um, and that's okay. 00:19:04.400 --> 00:19:05.359 I really believe that. 00:19:05.440 --> 00:19:06.240 I think it's okay. 00:19:06.400 --> 00:19:08.000 You've an all-white camp, work. 00:19:08.240 --> 00:19:10.160 If it's not a problem for you, it's not a problem for you. 00:19:10.240 --> 00:19:13.920 If it is a problem for you, there are significant changes to me to be made. 00:19:14.079 --> 00:19:16.319 Yeah, work harder or work differently. 00:19:16.640 --> 00:19:17.359 Yeah, there you go. 00:19:17.519 --> 00:19:19.279 And let everyone know what you're doing. 00:19:19.759 --> 00:19:21.119 Everyone know what you're doing. 00:19:21.519 --> 00:19:25.279 This you know for better or for worse, it's a capitalist environment. 00:19:25.680 --> 00:19:28.640 And I mean, if we're a for-profit camp, you are making money. 00:19:28.720 --> 00:19:32.319 You're entitled to make decisions about your business that you think will carry your business forward. 00:19:32.480 --> 00:19:45.359 If you ask my opinion, if you ask my opinion, if you follow an all-white camp and an all-white staff, I think you should plan to go out of business in the next 10 to 15 years because I know this super white supremacist moment has a lot of people excited. 00:19:45.440 --> 00:19:46.720 Um, it's not gonna last. 00:19:46.880 --> 00:19:48.559 It never has in America. 00:19:48.799 --> 00:19:52.799 You know, that we started this in the 18th century and we're still pushing back against it. 00:19:52.960 --> 00:19:57.359 I don't know why you think it's suddenly gonna break and be like, oh no, white supremacy is gonna be okay. 00:19:57.440 --> 00:19:59.039 No one's gonna notice I have an all-white staff. 00:19:59.119 --> 00:20:01.039 And no, that's not that's not the case. 00:20:01.279 --> 00:20:02.960 Talk to Jen Alpha and Gen Z. 00:20:03.039 --> 00:20:05.920 They notice, and they're gonna have kids in about 10 years. 00:20:06.079 --> 00:20:10.480 And if your camp isn't ready, you know, take a pizza making class. 00:20:10.559 --> 00:20:11.920 You're gonna have to find something else to do. 00:20:12.160 --> 00:20:15.519 Thanks to our friends at Camptivities for sponsoring the Camp Hacker Podcast. 00:20:15.759 --> 00:20:23.759 On this show, we look at every part of camp operations because those decisions create the environment where kids get to become the best versions of themselves. 00:20:24.000 --> 00:20:27.839 Your schedule can limit your program or make more possible. 00:20:28.160 --> 00:20:32.240 Maybe you're designing a new activity that doesn't fit the way you've always scheduled camp. 00:20:32.559 --> 00:20:37.039 It needs different staffing, different spaces, a whole new set of rules. 00:20:37.279 --> 00:20:39.039 That's where Camptivities comes in. 00:20:39.279 --> 00:20:51.279 Camptivities Scheduling Engine 8 builds on a proprietary scheduling technology to handle more variables, solve more complex scheduling challenges, and make the entire schedule easier to manage. 00:20:51.440 --> 00:21:03.680 With more data and clearer insights along the way, you can see what's happening, understand why, and help build better schedules faster so you can confidently launch the complex activities that campers crave. 00:21:03.920 --> 00:21:04.960 Camptivities. 00:21:05.119 --> 00:21:08.400 Smarter scheduling, more insight, less work. 00:21:08.640 --> 00:21:11.119 Visit camptivities.com to learn more. 00:21:11.440 --> 00:21:13.279 Exclusive for Camp Hacker listeners. 00:21:13.440 --> 00:21:17.519 Grab UltraCamp's free guide, the parent experience checklist. 00:21:17.759 --> 00:21:21.680 Practical steps to simplify registration and keep families coming back. 00:21:22.079 --> 00:21:27.359 Download at ultracampmanagement.com slash camphacker. 00:21:27.519 --> 00:21:32.319 Parents don't want clunky processes, and you don't want constant phone calls. 00:21:32.559 --> 00:21:47.440 Ultracamp helps you simplify registration with mobile-friendly forms, offer payment plans that work for your families, reduce calls and emails with automated reminders, and keep parents engaged with built in communication tools. 00:21:47.680 --> 00:21:55.119 Ultracamp helps you create smooth, stress free parent interactions so your team can focus on camp, not customer service. 00:21:55.279 --> 00:21:59.359 Learn more at ultracampmanagement.comslash camp hacker. 00:22:00.240 --> 00:22:00.720 That note. 00:22:00.880 --> 00:22:01.920 Oh, Chris, that's so good. 00:22:02.160 --> 00:22:02.960 I was like, that's so good. 00:22:03.119 --> 00:22:07.680 How do I take us to the next question without we'll let Chris's silence just sit there for a bit? 00:22:07.759 --> 00:22:13.200 Well, hey, no, just let let's just go to the let's just sit for a minute and then continue. 00:22:17.599 --> 00:22:18.720 Okay boy. 00:22:19.519 --> 00:22:26.160 Uh the next scenario, the next scenario summary was uh about money. 00:22:26.400 --> 00:22:30.319 A budget planning season just started and it already feels impossible. 00:22:30.480 --> 00:22:39.519 Where's the framework for figuring out where to protect spending, where to cut, and whether it's worth pursuing outside sponsorships to offset the cost? 00:22:40.000 --> 00:22:50.000 I'm gonna take the first crack at this because I think there's a couple of pieces that uh hopefully will set up you two for the stuff that you want to say about budget planning. 00:22:50.640 --> 00:23:04.559 The first thing is that you you need to increase your prices every year, period, because you don't want to get stuck with like, oh crap, we haven't increased our prices in 10

years and we're just killing ourselves. 00:23:04.799 --> 00:23:07.759 There's no, you know, we're running a deficit constantly. 00:23:08.079 --> 00:23:22.400 Increasing your budget, increasing your um your registration fees by five percent is technically no increase at all because your expenses will go up this year between five to seven percent. 00:23:22.640 --> 00:23:32.079 And right now, US inflation is about seven percent, Canadian inflation is about three and a half, and so your costs are automatically going to be that much more. 00:23:32.319 --> 00:23:38.880 And we know from just political instability that inflation can go way up, um, but I don't think it's gonna go way down. 00:23:39.039 --> 00:23:46.960 So you have to increase by at least five percent to cover your costs, and um so that that's my baseline. 00:23:47.279 --> 00:23:48.160 That has to be it. 00:23:48.319 --> 00:23:55.839 And then if you actually want to increase what your income is going to be, then you need to increase it by a bit more, and you have to communicate why that's important. 00:23:56.079 --> 00:23:59.440 This person was talking about like how do we develop a framework around this? 00:23:59.519 --> 00:24:04.400 How do we you know figure out where to put to do the spending and cut costs? 00:24:04.559 --> 00:24:13.839 I have a thing that I that I use pretty often that I think really applies specifically to this question and lots of camp questions, but I want you to think about the the path. 00:24:13.920 --> 00:24:15.279 My acronym is the path. 00:24:15.440 --> 00:24:16.799 What do you want to protect? 00:24:17.039 --> 00:24:18.720 What do you want to amplify? 00:24:18.960 --> 00:24:20.559 What do you want to trim? 00:24:20.720 --> 00:24:22.640 And what do you want to humanize? 00:24:22.880 --> 00:24:25.680 Because some of those save money and some of those cost money. 00:24:25.839 --> 00:24:31.680 But those four questions can get you in the right frame of mind to start solving for some budget issues. 00:24:31.839 --> 00:24:35.599 And I'll hand it back to you to you as I monopolize this one so far. 00:24:35.839 --> 00:24:36.720 No, that's good. 00:24:37.039 --> 00:24:39.920 Um, you definitely have to start with your non-negotiables. 00:24:40.160 --> 00:24:41.519 What have you promised to provide? 00:24:41.680 --> 00:24:49.680 What has to happen, what are major bills that you know you have to pay, like salaries, what critical needs have to be addressed, those have to be built first. 00:24:49.759 --> 00:24:51.359 Like that's that's any budget. 00:24:51.519 --> 00:24:54.079 Then fitting things around them is the key. 00:24:54.319 --> 00:25:08.640 Um, the same applies to capital planning, like understanding that you what resources you have available, what's going to disappear, what genuinely needs to happen before you get distracted by anything else super shiny, which is something that I have a struggle with. 00:25:08.799 --> 00:25:15.119 Um, and then to the point that you

just made, you have to think about you have to think beyond individual line items. 00:25:15.279 --> 00:25:24.880 And I think that sometimes, especially people that are new to budgeting or or new to PL and you know, enrollment fees and increases and define PL tissue for those that don't know. 00:25:25.200 --> 00:25:27.519 Profit and loss, your profit and loss. 00:25:27.759 --> 00:25:32.960 Um, but I think that the point that Chris just made is or that Travis just made is super key. 00:25:33.119 --> 00:25:40.400 So a cut in one area can create expense, risk, or increased workload somewhere else. 00:25:40.559 --> 00:25:45.359 So you can't just ask how much is this going to cost financially? 00:25:45.599 --> 00:25:49.680 How much is this going to cost in people time in resources? 00:25:50.079 --> 00:25:52.240 What happens elsewhere if we cut it? 00:25:52.400 --> 00:25:54.400 Is there a ripper ripple effect? 00:25:54.559 --> 00:25:57.920 A cheaper decision doesn't always mean a cheaper outcome. 00:25:58.079 --> 00:26:02.400 Um, sometimes it does, but staffing is an obvious example. 00:26:02.480 --> 00:26:15.759 You know, if you reduce a reduction, it may save money on paper, but it's gonna increase turnover, it's gonna increase recruitment costs, it's going to increase the demand of training, it's gonna increase burnout, it's gonna amplify the workload that will affect the camper experience. 00:26:16.160 --> 00:26:22.880 That's the point that Chris made earlier about, you know, when you aren't honest, what are you gonna do to your staff? 00:26:23.200 --> 00:26:25.759 And then what is that gonna do to the camper experience? 00:26:25.920 --> 00:26:31.599 So I think all of those things have to really, you know, you you have to think about it. 00:26:31.680 --> 00:26:42.079 And I I know from experience and putting together the 2025, 2026 tri-state agenda, we really wanted to have workshops on budgeting for camp staff. 00:26:42.160 --> 00:26:48.000 They wanted it, they they wanted to understand soup to nuts, what they're doing. 00:26:48.240 --> 00:26:55.680 And nobody could put it in a format that was simple enough to answer some of these basic questions. 00:26:55.920 --> 00:27:01.759 Everybody wanted to go high level, everybody wanted to go, you know, collegiate course in accounting. 00:27:02.079 --> 00:27:08.880 It doesn't have to be like that, but you do have to ask yourself very serious questions because you have to pay the bills. 00:27:08.960 --> 00:27:13.839 Like camp doesn't run on sunshine and rainbow as much as we would love it to. 00:27:14.240 --> 00:27:16.720 That's that's not that's not how it works. 00:27:16.960 --> 00:27:18.240 That's not how it works. 00:27:19.279 --> 00:27:21.279 I've been thinking about how to add to this. 00:27:21.519 --> 00:27:27.279 Both of you said such I mean, I'm always listening I'm gonna be really clear about something. 00:27:28.720 --> 00:27:29.519 Accounting. 00:27:29.680 --> 00:27:35.200 When I started this business, I had no idea our our we had no idea how to do accounting. 00:27:35.519 --> 00:27:40.240 Our our motivating principle was like, we have to make more money than we're spending. 00:27:40.400 --> 00:27:42.960 That's the best listen, and that was it. 00:27:43.119 --> 00:27:46.960 And I'll be honest with you, to this day, that's still our understanding. 00:27:47.119 --> 00:27:54.720 I mean, the accountants worry about it now and they send us alarming messages from time to time, but I really like the budget comes together. 00:27:54.880 --> 00:27:56.400 I I want to say this. 00:27:57.119 --> 00:27:58.960 I'm very privileged. 00:27:59.599 --> 00:28:02.640 When I started a business, it took off immediately. 00:28:03.039 --> 00:28:05.119 We've never had to make hard choices or hard cuts. 00:28:05.200 --> 00:28:06.319 I'm gonna be really honest about that. 00:28:06.400 --> 00:28:09.839 And I'm very I'm aware that that is not everyone's situation. 00:28:10.079 --> 00:28:17.039 That said, Travis, I really like what you said about raising the price because there's something um I went on a journey with raising the price. 00:28:17.359 --> 00:28:23.359 There was a while where I felt like, oh, we're not really like this is a disservice to families, et cetera, et cetera. 00:28:23.519 --> 00:28:28.559 And then we did begin the cost cutting, Kate, like around like can we pay staff less? 00:28:28.720 --> 00:28:29.839 Can we do this less? 00:28:30.000 --> 00:28:31.839 Um, and that was a whole journey. 00:28:32.000 --> 00:28:35.279 But I I just want to talk about where I came out at the end of that. 00:28:36.079 --> 00:28:39.920 At the end of the day, it becomes a quality issue. 00:28:40.160 --> 00:28:44.000 If you're running a program that you are advertising, right? 00:28:44.559 --> 00:28:47.599 You don't, again, go back to snake oil. 00:28:47.759 --> 00:28:50.640 You want to advertise the thing that people are actually getting. 00:28:50.880 --> 00:28:53.599 And you want a product that is consistent. 00:28:53.759 --> 00:28:55.440 Prices are going up all the time. 00:28:55.599 --> 00:28:56.799 Our needs are changing. 00:28:56.960 --> 00:29:04.160 This space, the camp space, is changing so rapidly as we have to pay attention to other things that didn't get the kind of shine that they needed in the past. 00:29:04.319 --> 00:29:11.839 I mean, not just diversity, but like there's a lot of environmental stuff that Travis and I are always talking about that people have to allocate the money for. 00:29:12.079 --> 00:29:22.480 Um, I'm gonna say something, I don't know if this is sinful in business, but like to maintain the quality, sometimes expansion is not where you need to go. 00:29:23.039 --> 00:29:31.680 And I know that everyone is very excited about the new lake toys or like the new speedboat or something that we can get it and the kids are gonna really love it. 00:29:31.759 --> 00:29:36.160 And did it that's always, by the way, that's the motivation in every

pitch meeting when someone wants to spend money. 00:29:36.319 --> 00:29:37.599 The kids are gonna really love it. 00:29:37.759 --> 00:29:38.720 Stop that. 00:29:39.039 --> 00:29:39.359 Okay. 00:29:39.759 --> 00:29:47.279 The kids, if if you got if you got like two bean cans and and a dodgeball and you made up a game, the kids would love that too. 00:29:47.359 --> 00:29:50.319 And the entire cost of that would be$12.95 US. 00:29:50.480 --> 00:29:51.359 Do you know what I mean? 00:29:51.680 --> 00:29:57.039 So the kids don't always need bigger and better because the quality of your program is important. 00:29:57.200 --> 00:30:05.440 Um, and I know there are some camps out there who have like Olympic level gymnast and equestrian sort of facilities, and I love that for them. 00:30:05.599 --> 00:30:08.640 Um, but for the rest of us, they're specialty. 00:30:08.960 --> 00:30:10.880 Yeah, and there's that's what they're selling. 00:30:11.119 --> 00:30:14.400 That's what they're selling, so people are expect to pay for it. 00:30:14.640 --> 00:30:18.799 But I would just I I would back to basics. 00:30:19.039 --> 00:30:22.240 Every now and then just revisit your mission and make sure that you're on mission. 00:30:22.319 --> 00:30:24.240 First of all, that's something you should be doing regularly. 00:30:24.480 --> 00:30:38.720 But also, like the question is is the mission enhanced if is the mission enhanced if we cut this line from the budget, or if we divert all this money from here to here? 00:30:38.880 --> 00:30:40.000 Is the mission enhanced? 00:30:40.160 --> 00:30:46.160 I think just asking that question would like about 30% of decisions would become immediate to you. 00:30:46.400 --> 00:30:49.920 Like some of the stuff that's plaguing you, I think would immediately be like, oh no, it doesn't. 00:30:50.079 --> 00:30:50.799 Then leave it. 00:30:51.039 --> 00:30:51.680 Then leave it. 00:30:51.839 --> 00:30:56.400 And I I would be remiss if I didn't repeat my friend Simone Gamble. 00:30:56.799 --> 00:30:59.440 Your budget is a moral document. 00:30:59.759 --> 00:31:06.640 If you want to, if you really want to see what people's true values are, look at their budget, see what they're spending money on and what they're not spending money on. 00:31:06.799 --> 00:31:08.640 And I just think that should be something that you're aware of. 00:31:08.720 --> 00:31:10.880 It it dovetails neatly with what I'm saying now. 00:31:11.039 --> 00:31:14.480 Like, check your mission when you want to cut or increase spending. 00:31:14.720 --> 00:31:16.799 Does it does it serve the mission? 00:31:17.119 --> 00:31:19.039 Um that's what I would say. 00:31:19.119 --> 00:31:22.319 But also what Travis said, raise the price every year. 00:31:22.799 --> 00:31:24.400 My God, did I struggle with that? 00:31:24.559 --> 00:31:25.920 Raising the price every year. 00:31:26.160 --> 00:31:33.519 Like we, we would, we would get less profits because I didn't want to raise the price on families who had already demonstrated that they were willing to pay us money. 00:31:33.680 --> 00:31:41.759 Like I was afraid to ask for an additional like$75 for the experience that their children rave about so much that the parents repeatedly send them. 00:31:41.920 --> 00:31:46.319 Like what I'm getting at is that this was like it was like shooting fish in a barrel. 00:31:46.400 --> 00:31:49.839 They're already customers, they're not gonna balk at an additional$70. 00:31:51.200 --> 00:31:51.680 Yeah. 00:31:52.079 --> 00:32:01.039 I I I think we should say out loud that it is an incredibly challenging part of this job doing budgeting well. 00:32:01.519 --> 00:32:08.079 And most of us are not maybe not natural budgeters, isn't the right word. 00:32:08.160 --> 00:32:13.519 We're not naturally money people, and that's not the motivation for those of us getting here. 00:32:13.759 --> 00:32:29.759 You just have to get yourself there as part of this job, and um it's emotionally hard to accept that at some point you may price some of your families out of being able to go. 00:32:30.000 --> 00:32:33.440 There are creative solutions, you can try to figure that out, etc. 00:32:34.079 --> 00:32:42.160 Um, but our the people who price things that we have to buy don't go into that with any emotion. 00:32:43.039 --> 00:32:48.640 And then we come in with all these emotions and say, yeah, but this is gonna make it harder for families to come to camp. 00:32:48.880 --> 00:32:50.960 And I agree, and I wish there was a way around that. 00:32:51.119 --> 00:32:52.160 I don't know what it is. 00:32:52.400 --> 00:33:01.359 We've said on Camp Hacker a zillion times that anything youth development or childcare related is massively undervalued in the world. 00:33:01.680 --> 00:33:14.400 Um, and yeah, but you kind of have to get yourself to the point where you're like, I can make some decisions based on logic and just accept that there are a lot of emotions that go with that. 00:33:14.640 --> 00:33:18.880 Money's very emotional anyway, but in this case super emotional. 00:33:19.920 --> 00:33:37.680 I saw something really interesting several years ago now, um, where camps, two camps that I knew of went to tiered pricing, and they exceeded their revenue goal and their campership goal. 00:33:37.839 --> 00:33:40.640 And it was a beautiful thing to see. 00:33:40.720 --> 00:33:44.880 So, Chris, it speaks to what you said about people are already buying in. 00:33:45.119 --> 00:33:52.480 And that extra$75 for many people, for an experience that they want, is something that they're able to do. 00:33:52.559 --> 00:33:53.440 And guess what? 00:33:53.599 --> 00:34:12.000 People that might not be able to do it in 2026 might be able to do it in 2027 because they value what you do and they've come back and they recognize, you know, I for me, I always look at the fact that there was a point in time as a kid where my parents needed financial assistance for camp. 00:34:12.400 -->

00:34:17.679 So now every time I have a little extra money, I think about okay, can I give to scope this year? 00:34:17.840 --> 00:34:20.000 Who who can I support this year? 00:34:20.239 --> 00:34:22.639 Because I know what what it did for me. 00:34:22.800 --> 00:34:25.679 So that will happen as well. 00:34:26.000 --> 00:34:26.480 Mm-hmm. 00:34:26.880 --> 00:34:29.280 We also went to tiered pricing two years ago. 00:34:29.440 --> 00:34:36.159 And yes, we also uh the revenue that we generated was more than if we had just did the standard pricing. 00:34:36.559 --> 00:34:37.840 Because there's a sensibility. 00:34:38.159 --> 00:34:44.639 Also, camps are a community, and when we put the cloud to our community, like, hey, help other kids come to camp. 00:34:44.880 --> 00:34:52.079 Like a lot of our parents were like, absolutely, because it's like you said, Kate, like, let me people who have benefited, they're like, let me give back. 00:34:52.239 --> 00:34:56.960 It it's this is there's an interesting thing that happens in our mind. 00:34:57.119 --> 00:35:00.079 We do it with our friends and we do it with our supervisors all the time. 00:35:00.320 --> 00:35:05.760 We assume that people are more cold and more cruel than they could possibly be in real life. 00:35:06.000 --> 00:35:15.760 Like, you ever like you ever plan to meet your friends for dinner or something and you've been planning it for three weeks, and like the day before you don't want to go, and you're like, I can't tell them I don't want to go, they're gonna be so mad at me. 00:35:15.840 --> 00:35:19.119 You think your friends are gonna be mad at you because your life is happening? 00:35:19.280 --> 00:35:24.239 Like in our minds, we like we we give people like these, like these cruel stands. 00:35:24.480 --> 00:35:26.480 Our customers are the same. 00:35:26.800 --> 00:35:36.320 If we increase the price by$75, they're not gonna be like, or$100, they're not gonna be like, you guys are greedy, you're taking, taking, taking. 00:35:36.480 --> 00:35:38.239 Like, why would they? 00:35:38.639 --> 00:35:46.639 If these are people we are in our community and we've, you know, we've brought them in, they might, they're not gonna react like that. 00:35:46.800 --> 00:35:48.800 They might be like, wow, this is really hard for us. 00:35:48.880 --> 00:35:50.320 I don't know if we can do this. 00:35:50.480 --> 00:35:54.079 And let me give you a piece of advice that someone gave me many years ago. 00:35:54.320 --> 00:36:00.639 If you raise the price and someone contacts you and says, I really can't do it, give them last year's price. 00:36:00.800 --> 00:36:01.679 Say, you know what? 00:36:01.840 --> 00:36:09.119 That's not a problem because you'll be doing that for less than 5% of the people, and it's not gonna make a it's not gonna impact your bottom line. 00:36:09.679 --> 00:36:10.719 It's that simple. 00:36:10.960 --> 00:36:14.719 We I got that, um, I got that advice right before we raised the price. 00:36:14.880 --> 00:36:17.039 And then I was like, held my breath, raised the price. 00:36:17.119 --> 00:36:20.079 Not a single person wrote us and said they couldn't do it. 00:36:20.159 --> 00:36:24.559 So everyone just made it happen because they want this experience for their kids. 00:36:24.880 --> 00:36:26.960 They want the experience for their kids. 00:36:27.280 --> 00:36:28.960 So be honest. 00:36:29.519 --> 00:36:31.119 Honesty, I think, is the theme. 00:36:31.280 --> 00:36:36.480 Be honest with the parents about what this costs to put on this fantasia for their kids. 00:36:36.639 --> 00:36:37.840 They're on board. 00:36:38.159 --> 00:36:38.960 They're on board. 00:36:39.039 --> 00:36:41.840 They want to help you put on this fantasia for their kids. 00:36:42.000 --> 00:36:44.480 Everyone's on the same team, you know? 00:36:44.719 --> 00:36:44.960 Yeah. 00:36:45.199 --> 00:36:47.679 I mean, it this goes back to question number number one. 00:36:48.400 --> 00:36:49.679 People are values aligned. 00:36:50.480 --> 00:36:53.760 One thing, and get a good accountant, right? 00:36:54.320 --> 00:36:57.599 Get a good accountant and tell your friends who the good accountants are. 00:36:58.480 --> 00:36:59.840 Sorry, Travis, go ahead. 00:37:00.159 --> 00:37:03.519 No, no, it's just if your families are values aligned anyway. 00:37:03.599 --> 00:37:15.280 It's uh like if you are just bringing in new families all the time, just who are searching for summer camp on the internet, they're not gonna be aligned with your values. 00:37:15.599 --> 00:37:25.440 But if they are aligned with your values and you clearly communicate, we understand that this makes this harder for your families, but we just can't be here for families if we don't do this thing. 00:37:25.679 --> 00:37:30.559 Those were aligned with your values, it'd be like, Yeah, I got it, it's harder there for everybody. 00:37:30.800 --> 00:37:37.840 Um and you know, sometimes you have to break it down and say, you know, insurance increased by this much. 00:37:37.920 --> 00:37:53.199 I remember I remember when insurance went crazy in the early 2000s because of the 9-11 payouts, and our insurance went up 40% in a year, and we had to just go back to our families and say, this is just what we're at. 00:37:53.280 --> 00:37:59.440 But the families who were aligned with what we do and respected the way we did it went, yeah, we get it. 00:38:00.719 --> 00:38:01.360 Yeah. 00:38:02.000 --> 00:38:04.559 I I'm gonna move us on. 00:38:04.639 --> 00:38:10.000 We had one other question that um one we thought we might get a chance to deal with. 00:38:10.239 --> 00:38:22.480 Um, but I think we need to put an end to the discussion for today, and we'll come back to more questions and hopefully have Kate back um for questions and answer pods uh throughout the year. 00:38:22.559 --> 00:38:40.159 Because I intend to do at least two more of these, which means technically I'm committing to four more of these because we'll

sit down to have a discussion and I'll have four questions lined up and we'll get to two, and then we'll have to say, okay, we're coming to episode two of our winter uh uh burning questions thing. 00:38:40.400 --> 00:38:41.679 Um, but thank you both. 00:38:41.840 --> 00:38:55.199 Really appreciate your insights and your wisdom and your experience and and your um directness with your kindness in talking to the people that we care about that run camps around us. 00:38:55.440 --> 00:38:59.519 That means for us, we are moving on to our tool of the week. 00:38:59.840 --> 00:39:01.280 Tool of the week. 00:39:01.519 --> 00:39:09.760 Um Chris, what's your tool of the week? 00:39:10.000 --> 00:39:12.079 I'm so glad you asked. 00:39:12.559 --> 00:39:13.199 All right. 00:39:14.159 --> 00:39:15.440 It's so silly. 00:39:15.679 --> 00:39:22.239 Um, if you've been listening to this for the past couple of years, you know I'm really big into games and I like to gamify things. 00:39:22.400 --> 00:39:23.760 So I found this thing. 00:39:23.920 --> 00:39:27.360 It's called the Wheel of Names. 00:39:27.679 --> 00:39:31.679 Uh it's wheelofnames.com and it's exactly what you think it is. 00:39:31.840 --> 00:39:48.159 You click on and you, it's just a giant wheel, like Price is right style or Wheel of Fortune style, and you just pick the categories that you want, and you just spin, and then it gives you an answer, and it has like a little confetti animation, which is really fun. 00:39:48.320 --> 00:39:54.480 So, like it's great if you need to like like who's gonna get the off period or who's gonna do this. 00:39:54.639 --> 00:39:59.599 You put all the staff names on there, you spin it, you put on a screen, it's like a really big deal. 00:39:59.760 --> 00:40:02.079 Or like, oh, I don't know, I'm sitting down at my desk. 00:40:02.239 --> 00:40:03.440 What should I do first? 00:40:03.599 --> 00:40:06.000 Put it up on the wheel and spin it and see what happens. 00:40:06.159 --> 00:40:13.360 Like I said, it's totally silly when it's totally fun, and um, silly and fun is kind of my brand. 00:40:13.599 --> 00:40:16.159 Silly, fun, but controversial is my brand. 00:40:16.400 --> 00:40:19.199 Um, so have fun with the wheel of names. 00:40:19.280 --> 00:40:20.239 Put anything on it. 00:40:20.559 --> 00:40:22.239 What do you want to eat for dinner tonight? 00:40:22.559 --> 00:40:24.800 Spin the wheel. 00:40:25.840 --> 00:40:27.119 Wheel of names.com. 00:40:27.199 --> 00:40:28.159 I love it. 00:40:29.039 --> 00:40:34.480 Chris, when you're leading people into a moment of fun, do you also begin with listen? 00:40:34.800 --> 00:40:36.400 Yeah, the same thing happens. 00:40:36.960 --> 00:40:37.679 Yeah, listen. 00:40:38.000 --> 00:40:39.039 Listen, everyone. 00:40:39.199 --> 00:40:40.079 Yeah, look. 00:40:41.920 --> 00:40:45.199 I get your attention by telling you to do things you should already be doing. 00:40:45.360 --> 00:40:46.400 Look, everybody. 00:40:46.639 --> 00:40:47.440 Or listen. 00:40:47.679 --> 00:40:50.079 It's the perfect, perfect podcaster phrase. 00:40:50.320 --> 00:40:51.440 Listen, everybody. 00:40:51.920 --> 00:40:56.400 I uh I I gotta say, no one does like a Chris Hudson impression like my kids. 00:40:56.639 --> 00:41:04.159 There was like a whole at the talent show there was the one here, there was like a whole thing where they they got up in a line and they gave like their big their best Chris Hudson. 00:41:04.880 --> 00:41:10.000 All I can say is all I can say is that like, yeah, I do say all those things and I do act that way. 00:41:10.159 --> 00:41:11.360 Boom, there it is. 00:41:12.079 --> 00:41:14.800 So listen, check out Wheel of Names. 00:41:15.519 --> 00:41:17.679 Yes, Wheel of Names. 00:41:18.000 --> 00:41:18.559 Well done. 00:41:18.719 --> 00:41:20.320 This is what I remind you every time. 00:41:20.480 --> 00:41:28.320 Go to campacker.tv slash podcast, find the show notes, and you can look up and get a link to all of these things there. 00:41:28.559 --> 00:41:29.840 Kate, what's your tool? 00:41:30.159 --> 00:41:32.320 So I went analog this week. 00:41:32.400 --> 00:41:40.800 Um, and I'm gonna, I'm not even gonna try to pronounce the Swedish name for my KEA, but it is a paper roll holder from Ikea. 00:41:41.039 --> 00:41:42.960 So I have had this for 10 years. 00:41:43.199 --> 00:41:46.159 The one that's on the website right now is actually slightly different from the one that I have. 00:41:46.320 --> 00:41:49.679 It's been on my desk for 10 years, big craft roll. 00:41:49.840 --> 00:41:56.800 And it's my to-do lists, it's doodles, it's notes, it's the summer starts, and I'm like, oh, this is the thing we forgot about. 00:41:56.880 --> 00:41:57.760 Write it down. 00:41:57.920 --> 00:42:04.079 Um, in my early admin years when I had to track mileage and expenses, I would write them all for the month on that. 00:42:04.239 --> 00:42:07.119 It's if you're a visual person, it's fantastic. 00:42:07.280 --> 00:42:09.280 You can put it on the wall, you can put it on your desk. 00:42:09.360 --> 00:42:14.880 It's for children, but it's a very useful, very cost-effective tool. 00:42:15.039 --> 00:42:15.679 I love it. 00:42:16.159 --> 00:42:16.800 Absolutely love it. 00:42:17.119 --> 00:42:20.880 I don't think you have to front load this group too hard on it's for children. 00:42:21.119 --> 00:42:25.119 We're all like it's big and it's useful, and I'm doing it. 00:42:26.079 --> 00:42:27.920 Yeah, it's so cool. 00:42:28.000 --> 00:42:29.679 But I think it's such a great idea. 00:42:29.840 --> 00:42:32.400 So paper roll, you mean like a big roll of craft paper? 00:42:32.480 --> 00:42:34.320 Like how how big is the roll? 00:42:34.400 --> 00:42:37.440 Like, how tall is the roll when it's standing on your desk? 00:42:38.320 --> 00:42:50.719 This one actually has fit the width of my of all the desks that I've had it on, and I'm gonna look really quickly and see if it says how large it is, because uh this one

actually looks smaller than the one I have. 00:42:50.800 --> 00:42:53.519 So I wonder if they made it a little bit smaller. 00:42:53.760 --> 00:43:02.960 It is 19 and three-quarters inch long, seven inches tall, five inches wide, so relatively compact. 00:43:04.000 --> 00:43:07.360 So the roll probably be 18 inches wide. 00:43:07.679 --> 00:43:08.800 I think so, yeah. 00:43:09.119 --> 00:43:14.960 And they okay, and honestly, I've used, I think this is only the second roll of paper I have had in in the 10 years. 00:43:15.199 --> 00:43:16.559 Yeah, I bet that one. 00:43:17.119 --> 00:43:17.760 Yeah. 00:43:18.159 --> 00:43:21.599 Um, here's a little add-on to to Kate's. 00:43:21.760 --> 00:43:28.960 Um, we had a family who sent their kids to camp who ran a printing company, and they would save up the end of the rolls for us. 00:43:29.119 --> 00:43:31.760 This is why it's so great to have good relationships with the families. 00:43:31.840 --> 00:43:40.480 Like there'd be a roll that would have like 40 feet of paper on it, and for them, it's like this it's too much. 00:43:40.639 --> 00:43:44.960 We we have to have hundreds of feet on a roll, or we just spend too much time changing them. 00:43:45.119 --> 00:43:47.360 So here's your seven rolls. 00:43:47.519 --> 00:43:48.320 Then they were huge. 00:43:48.400 --> 00:43:52.079 They'd be like three feet wide, and maybe like seven rolls of paper. 00:43:52.400 --> 00:43:54.079 Like amazing, perfect. 00:43:54.239 --> 00:43:55.679 So ask around. 00:43:55.760 --> 00:44:06.079 Um, but the one that fits the thing that Kate is talking about is in The link to the IKEA paperwall one that fits there at the 18 incher. 00:44:06.400 --> 00:44:07.199 Thanks, Kate. 00:44:07.599 --> 00:44:08.239 Thanks, Kate. 00:44:08.480 --> 00:44:08.639 Awesome. 00:44:09.199 --> 00:44:09.440 Thank you. 00:44:09.760 --> 00:44:16.960 We were talking about budgeting, and so I wanted to uh talk about a tool that I maybe I've talked about before. 00:44:17.280 --> 00:44:20.320 Seems feels like I have, but it's definitely been a long time. 00:44:20.559 --> 00:44:32.079 Um, I just bought a new computer, and um I've been nursing a laptop for years and years and years, and it finally just died, and so I had to buy a new computer. 00:44:32.320 --> 00:44:43.280 And um Beth and I have Macs, and so I went to Apple to buy a new computer, and I realized that I've done this for I can't count how many computers now. 00:44:43.519 --> 00:45:02.480 I always go to the bottom of the Apple store page on the website, and there's an Apple refurbished link there, and you can get a new computer that is usually less than a year old, that has been completely re-up updated, and whatever the problem was that it got sent back completely fixed, and they certainly give you a certificate. 00:45:02.559 --> 00:45:21.199 And the Apple Care is built in for a certain number of months, and it's usually a quarter to a third off of the price of that other machine that is brand new, but it has the same characteristics, the same things, and it's available in both the American and Canadian app stores. 00:45:21.440 --> 00:45:28.960 I assume it'll be in the Apple store for whatever your location is if you're not in North America. 00:45:29.119 --> 00:45:40.800 Um, but there are good deals that sometimes you can get a more upgraded computer than you thought you could for the budget that you'd put in your budget that you were making this week while listening to us. 00:45:41.119 --> 00:45:43.119 So thank you both, Chris. 00:45:43.280 --> 00:45:47.119 If people want to get in touch, follow up, ask you questions, or hire you. 00:45:47.920 --> 00:45:51.360 They Chris? 00:45:51.679 --> 00:45:53.440 They, they, they how do they? 00:45:54.159 --> 00:45:55.679 Oh, right, of course, of course, of course. 00:45:55.760 --> 00:45:56.719 It's that part of the show. 00:45:56.960 --> 00:46:00.159 Hey, if you want to hire me, first of all, congratulations. 00:46:00.239 --> 00:46:02.000 You're making the right choice. 00:46:02.239 --> 00:46:07.360 Uh you should you can email me uh planetchris at gmail.com. 00:46:07.519 --> 00:46:10.800 You can find me on Instagram at planetchris1. 00:46:11.360 --> 00:46:14.480 Um, I'm also wandering the streets of New York City most days. 00:46:14.559 --> 00:46:16.559 So if you see me, come up and say hi. 00:46:17.280 --> 00:46:19.119 Do you say wandering or laundering? 00:46:19.360 --> 00:46:21.039 I'm gonna leave that to the listener. 00:46:21.280 --> 00:46:21.599 Okay. 00:46:21.840 --> 00:46:23.280 I'm gonna leave that to the listener. 00:46:23.360 --> 00:46:29.599 So Chris, everyone's a scrub brush on his shoulder and a sloshy pill in his hand walking around the streets of New York City. 00:46:30.000 --> 00:46:35.199 Actually, I mean, I would, you know, in Mam Dani's New York, that's how we do it, by the way. 00:46:36.159 --> 00:46:36.719 Fair enough. 00:46:37.039 --> 00:46:39.119 Everyone suits up just out there. 00:46:40.000 --> 00:46:40.639 Great. 00:46:41.039 --> 00:46:41.679 Yeah. 00:46:42.079 --> 00:46:44.800 Thanks, Chris, for a great discussion today. 00:46:45.119 --> 00:46:46.079 Kate, how about you? 00:46:46.400 --> 00:46:51.360 Well, in the two days since we recorded part one, I have built my website as I said I would. 00:46:51.599 --> 00:46:55.760 So I am at training, I am at trainingintense.com. 00:46:56.320 --> 00:47:00.639 Uh I-n-t-e-n-t-s intense. 00:47:00.800 --> 00:47:06.960 Uh, you can also find me at trainingintense at gmail.com and training intense on Instagram. 00:47:07.679 --> 00:47:08.079 Great. 00:47:08.239 --> 00:47:10.400 Well, Kate, thank you so much for sharing today. 00:47:10.480 --> 00:47:11.519 We really appreciate it. 00:47:11.760 --> 00:47:12.639 Thank you. 00:47:12.880 --> 00:47:13.519 That's good. 00:47:13.840 --> 00:47:14.639 Really good. 00:47:14.960 --> 00:47:26.159 And uh if you have feedback or things that you want us to let us know, um, you can go into your podcast app if you're an audio subscriber and look at the top of the notes page. 00:47:26.239 --> 00:47:29.840 You'll see a link to leave us a voice message or to send us a text. 00:47:30.159 --> 00:47:34.880 And if you want to reach out to me directly, Travis at gocamp.pro. 00:47:35.679 --> 00:47:43.039 Want to take a second while we're finishing things off here and introduce you to another new GoCamp Pro show called Stickier. 00:47:43.519 --> 00:47:48.480 Um, Stickier is about doing presentations to camp people. 00:47:48.800 --> 00:47:52.400 It is for people who do speaking at conferences. 00:47:52.639 --> 00:48:01.280 We have built it in partnership with the folks at captivities uh to help more people be more confident doing presentations. 00:48:01.519 --> 00:48:08.559 I think a lot of us understand that these things that we understand, we really get a grip on them when we start to teach them. 00:48:08.880 --> 00:48:16.480 And it really helps me develop my ideas to start to teach them and watch people's faces to see what lands and what they pick up on. 00:48:16.800 --> 00:48:23.119 Um, and so we have in partnership with Camp Activities created this show called Stickier. 00:48:23.599 --> 00:48:33.039 And I hope that you will look for it on your podcast app if you're just a listener, or check out the GoCamp Pro YouTube channel for those videos. 00:48:33.199 --> 00:48:36.239 All of the new shows are starting to land now. 00:48:36.559 --> 00:48:46.320 So our three new shows, Camp Programming by Design, Intentionally Intentional Leaders, and Stickier, uh, are all releasing as we put out this episode. 00:48:46.639 --> 00:48:55.440 Travis and I want to thank the sponsors of this week's episode, as well as our editor, Ryan Vandator, and Go Camp Pro's executive producer of podcasting, Matt Wilfred. 00:48:55.679 --> 00:48:57.440 Thanks for the evening, friends. 00:49:02.000 --> 00:49:10.239 The Camp Hacker Podcast is brought to you by Beth and Travis Allison, Summer Camp Leadership Training and Marketing Consultants. 00:49:10.400 --> 00:49:11.840 Thanks for listening. 00:49:15.599 --> 00:49:19.039 Camp Hacker is bringing your world into focus. 00:49:22.239 --> 00:49:24.000 This is Go Camp Pro. 00:49:24.400 --> 00:49:26.480 Camp Leadership Unfiltered.