Full Transcript for The Buzz | Emma Lovell

in marketing now. Yeah, I 00:02:55 Speaker 2: like the psychology of marketing. I liked understanding consumer behaviour like consumer behaviour was a subject. I really, really it just kind of led towards the people and I had done promotions. 00:03:06 Speaker 2: Um, I was a promo girl. I started promo in, um, when I was 1819 for, you know, my job, I guess. Casual job. And so I was quite used to taking on the messaging of a company. We'd work with Optus the energy drinks Telstra Coles, like big brands and they give us their key messaging. 00:03:27 Speaker 2: And then we had to go out and communicate that as brand ambassadors. Yes. Yes. And I really loved that promotion piece. It was a lot more fun. That's the fun bit being out there on the street with the consumers spreading 00:03:39 Speaker 1: the good word. I love it. So you're coming to the end of your degree. What kind of jobs were sort of were you leaning towards that Were jumping out at you? 00:03:48 Speaker 2: Uh, well, there were PR jobs, and a few of my friends had gone and done sort of internships. But I was really leaning towards running my own business. 00:03:56 Speaker 1: OK? So even then, where do you think that came from? I 00:04:00 Speaker 2: just I don't know, ignorance. Did you? I could just I could 00:04:04 Speaker 1: do it. Yeah, but like, where did that come from? Like Did Was Were your parents self employed? Is there any sort of mentors or people that you looked up to at that age that were self-employed? 00:04:15 Speaker 2: No, no, I'm shaking my head. Yeah, you know, forget these things of podcast. Um, I gesture a lot too, but No, no, I don't know where it came from. Honestly, it just was there 00:04:26 Speaker 1: you had to do. I just 00:04:27 Speaker 2: was like, I could just run a business. I was, I guess maybe from the promotions work, you essentially are your own agent. 00:04:34 Speaker 2: So you work for different, um, agencies, but you have an ABN, and you have to basically manage your own. So I was, like, essentially freelancing already there. You're, 00:04:44 Speaker 1: like, contracting back to the company. 00:04:46 Speaker 2: Yeah. So? And you'd have to apply for the role and then or be accepted. I say, you know, are you available for these dates? Are you the right fit? 00:04:53 Speaker 2: And so then I had, um I'd taken on a marketing junior role. Well, actually, I'd taken on an office junior role with my dad, the organisation my dad worked for. He's the CEO of a freight forwarding organisation. And then, as I learned things, I was like, Oh, I'm learning this thing in my marketing degree. 00:05:08 Speaker 2: Maybe you could implement that. So then I ended up getting getting this marketing PR title because of what I was doing there and helping I would go with him to international conferences, which I started going to when I was 17, just with him as his daughter. 00:05:24 Speaker 2: But I started going as because I understood how it worked to help

him facilitate the meeting. So 00:05:29 Speaker 1: that was kind of your first job before you went on your own or were you doing this at the same time? 00:05:34 Speaker 2: It was all through uni. So I mean, I. I just feel like I've never really I mean, one step back when I was on my Gap year, I did, um, 00:05:42 Speaker 2: through a recruitment company. I got office jobs and one of those was gumtree. And in that role, I was customer service. Yeah. So the gumtree, which is huge now, At the time, it was a tiny little section of eBay. Um, we were in the eBay building in London, but I just 00:06:00 Speaker 2: I could have stayed. I could have they would have would have wanted me to stay, but I wanted to get my business degree, and I wanted to interupt as a higher level. But then I guess as I learned more about PR and coms and maybe because some of the internships my friends were doing I was like, Well, they just have clients, right? So why can't I just have clients and just work directly with them? 00:06:19 Speaker 1: And so, how old were you at this point? Like 22. Ok. And who was your Do you remember your first 00:06:25 Speaker 2: client? Well, it was the dad my dad's organisation called a so Australian Federation of International Freight forwarders. So I went to them and said, You pay me as an employee. Can I just invoice you instead? Because I was always I was invoicing through promo, so I knew how to do that. Oh, 00:06:42 Speaker 1: so that's a really lovely first, actually, 00:06:45 Speaker 1: isn't it? As a first client, it's a really, I believe first, I was just gonna say it's a great recommendation for those people who are keen to get started, but really a little bit, you know, just turn it around. Can you actually put me, um, as a subcontractor? Yeah. I'll invoice you instead of being on your payroll. And it's a win win for them. Because if they got the yeah, all the benefits. So yeah, nice. 00:07:10 Speaker 1: And, you know, we often talk about flow and finding that in work when you went out on your own, did you feel that flow. It's like, Yes, this is where I'm at. I'm loving it. 00:07:20 Speaker 2: Well, no, because when I did that, the the actual time I don't know, I felt like I was very behind the eight ball, even though, you know, in hindsight, I was in my third year of uni, but I was like, 00, you know, I'm so late to this. Wow. Oh, gosh. Um, well, I guess it felt like I. I cram a lot into a very short amount of time. So when you're at uni, you know, I'm doing I was I ended up working for the union as well. The US union helped create a volunteer programme for them. So basically created a a promo, 00:07:51 Speaker 2: you know, agency within the union to get help, like staff in, uh, and and did ran promotions for them within uni. So I guess I was already sort of doing these things naturally. But then what happened was I. I broke my back snowboarding, so I had to drop. I didn't have to, but I chose to drop one subject that I wasn't loving anyway, and so I just went Well, if I'm gonna have to do another semester because I'm not gonna get to finish that one. 00:08:18 Speaker 2: I may as well drop another one. And I'll just do two. Because that's probably all I can cope with. Obviously couldn't work. And it just gave me the time and space to go. Oh, yeah, I can actually set the business up. So, like, 00:08:29 Speaker 1: so Were you living at home at this point? Yeah, I was living with my 00:08:32 Speaker 2: dad. Yeah, so just, um, got I had the ABN. So I just bought the business name. Lovely communications, uh, set up my blog, uh, and set up a Twitter account and just was, like, 00:08:45 Speaker 2: open for business. 00:08:47 Speaker 1: Right. So did you do any sort of marketing? Like, did you have a business plan and a bit of a marketing strategy for setting up your business? She's laughing. I don't think that she did. 00:08:57 Speaker 2: And I, I laugh. Only because I did. You did. But you know, it's funny is when you work, you know, do these at uni. You do APR plan. They're very deep. They make you do them very in depth and detailed. And then when you actually work with a client, 00:09:11 Speaker 2: they don't want that much, you know, And I. I had a really great mentor. Actually, he was the CEO of nudie juice. Nudie was this thing. Um, so I did a bit of I don't even know how I met him, but I did a bit of promo. Maybe because I did some promo for them, and they liked me. So they got me in direct, so we used to drive around to the beaches and hand out free juice. Really fun. Um, but then he they started another company, him and two other partners. 00:09:38 Speaker 2: And I became the director of that. So not the thing. And he was so great because I'd present my marketing plan, which was, you know, reams of paper. And he's like, How? That's great. You've done so much work. Yes. Can you give it to me in five slides? And because he's from that, like, really fast paced. And he was very, 00:09:57 Speaker 2: uh, outside the box. Um, So 00:10:00 Speaker 1: and I think that's also the two. Yes, that, but and also the fact that in real bus in business life, some of that theory, you know, application, it just isn't relevant. 00:10:10 Speaker 2: No. No. So, yeah, I made myself one, And I did, actually, it's funny when I think that because I hear people who are starting business now, I did actually go for like, um, New South Wales government did have, like a small business. Some like seminars and things. I did go to little things like that when I was starting, but 00:10:26 Speaker 2: I guess I had such a a fantastic playground in that, working with my dad's organisation, I had a lot of the role was created from what I was learning so I could do what I wanted in that role. And then I would meet someone, and, uh, this is, I guess, where my networking and my gift of the gab comes in. I just would tell them I'm running a business and I learned that networking skill from

my parents. They know everyone. They're always socialising, and 00:10:51 Speaker 2: just that not what you know. It's who you know. I knew that early on, so I would just talk to people about what I was doing, and they'd kind of give me a go, and then you just test it. 00:11:01 Speaker 1: So 00:11:03 Speaker 1: going back to you know, we just talking about planning as well. I you know, I like to ask my marketing skewed guest this question because there are a couple of schools, you know, I thought, you know. So So really, um, carrying on from what we were saying, Say something, 00:11:18 Speaker 1: just jump in and and work it out. And if you wait for everything to align with the plan and strategy, you're going to be waiting forever. Um, whereas others say that kind of planning and strategy work is, you know, essential. What is your advice to start up working through those various stages? 00:11:33 Speaker 2: I think it's always gonna be start like I think some of the best businesses are, like they called, like the back of a napkin, you know, or for me to be like on a plane. I just get out My, you know where there's no Internet, my laptop's dead. Just grab a pen and paper, and I write down whatever I'm thinking. So you do have a plan. You've written down some points. I just don't think you need to go and make a 20 page document and present that to the bank or something like that. 00:11:58 Speaker 2: So I think you have to in the best laid plans. If you don't actually start them and trial them and test them. And And you and I both know this. Sometimes you start doing something and then you actually don't like it. You don't enjoy it. So you don't want to go out and invest in all this setup without even testing if it's gonna work. So I think 00:12:16 Speaker 2: I think, you know, sort of jot down, make a very, very rough idea, but then refine as you go. And I don't think you you always want to have that as a living document. It's not a set in place. 00:12:27 Speaker 1: It's a work in progress and 00:12:28 Speaker 2: and if you can understand that But I think I think also understanding where people are coming out from different. You know, I started when I was 22. I literally I had the gift of ignorance. I didn't know any better, and I definitely didn't have the financial backing. Whereas I see some businesses and I think it's 00:12:45 Speaker 2: cool and lovely and wonderful that they've got the financial back and they've left corporate say they want to start an econ business or a service based business. And then they set themselves up right? You know I run these personal brand photoshoots. They come and they get the photos they pay for the visual branding. They get the website done. They'll 00:13:01 Speaker 2: might pay someone to help them do a plan. And they have all this outlay and they come out looking, you know, sort of gun blazing. But then, as I said, you could then go out and test that to the market. Nobody wants it. And you've just invested and you've started off with this great foundation, but people don't want it. So So 00:13:20 Speaker 1: small steps loose, So loose planning small steps and test the market. 00:13:26 Speaker 2: Yeah, 00:13:27 Speaker 2: yeah. And it is something to be said for starting a little bit Scrappy, like you don't want to be scruffy, but it's kind of cool doing that. Like, you know, hearing those businesses you started in the back shed your mom's garage, you know, I mean, hello, Apple and then went from there. And I think there's some 00:13:45 Speaker 2: I don't know. I think that's a fun part of my journey. Like I have definitely tried everything. I have definitely earned my stripes. I have gone up, but I had to get to a point. I think I just wish I probably didn't wait quite so long. It took me, like, 10 years to I feel, like, really invest in myself. I really did that feast or famine, Freelance contractor 00:14:06 Speaker 2: life and and also a lot of con because of my network. A lot of contra a lot of, um, you know, things done for me that I didn't have to pay for, which is fantastic. And I gave my services, but I did get to a point where I went I want to be taken seriously. I wanna be charging the big bucks. I'm asking people to invest in me. I've got to invest in in the business and in myself. So I wish maybe I just didn't wait quite so long for 00:14:29 Speaker 1: that. But then that's all you know. Like that's tricky with the hindsight question, right? You needed to do 00:14:35 Speaker 1: what you needed to do to get where you are today. So I'm 00:14:38 Speaker 2: also I'm 36. I was a little baby when I started. Like I'm 00:14:41 Speaker 1: very Yeah, 100%. Yeah, it's just my goodness. OK, so in those early days of lovely communications, what were your measures of success? 00:14:53 Speaker 2: I just I don't think I had any, I think just getting through the day, getting a client and making money. But, you know, we did talk about travel. Honestly, my goals were travel, so I was like, I'm gonna go on that trip. I've got to have this much money by then sort of thing. Or, um, you know, I had a personal I got a loan for a car, and then I sort of added to that when I did do my overseas exchange. So then it was, like, pay off that personal loan. 00:15:18 Speaker 1: So I guess they were monetary focused in those early days. Yeah, 00:15:21 Speaker 2: and I didn't Really, 00:15:23 Speaker 2: I think I just enjoyed I still I still kept my foot, um, in that promo world for quite a while, which was great for contacts and networking as well. And then I started to do a little bit of contracting. Um, so I didn't really you know. And this is the part of my journey that I used to share it like I didn't really define my audience. I didn't define my audience for 10 years. If you wanted. If you came to me and you would have work done? Sure. So a lot of subcontracting, Um, 00:15:49 Speaker 2: a lot of Yeah, I don't know. Just having contract and

work that I knew was consistent that I could access, but really no business direction. 00:15:59 Speaker 1: Just so it sounds like more on the sort of reactive than the than the proactive 00:16:05 Speaker 1: of things. Yeah. And we're gonna talk about where your business is now down the track. But, you know, obviously, over a lot of years, you know, we talk about them potentially. So you so your measures of success in those early years kind of monetary and getting the kind of lifestyle that you want. How did that change as your business grew? I mean, you know, um, 14 years later, 00:16:29 Speaker 1: uh, what would you say? Your measures of success within lovely communications have been in the last 12 months. Ha, ha. Have they changed? 00:16:37 Speaker 2: Yeah, but now it's now about it's about time, and it's about using my time wisely because I have a little boy now. So my son Finn is 2.5. He was born in start of 2021 00:16:49 Speaker 2: and time just became my most precious. Um, you know, resource or commodity or currency everything. Whereas when you know five years ago, I could just work till midnight or get up at six and finish client work or sure, eight clients come to me one day and want different work, I'll just take it all on and figure it out. Um, I do not have that 00:17:13 Speaker 2: that luxury. Yeah, actually. And you know, I don't want to 00:17:15 Speaker 1: luxury, though, too. Yeah, I guess you're more discerning now about where you want to spend your time. So then, as far as a measure of success goes, it's more about 00:17:27 Speaker 2: yeah, time. It's I I want to having that time someone gave me a mantra recently was like double the income in half the time and I'm like, Yes, and the first year I had my son, I was really happy with the amount of time I was spending in the business, but I would 00:17:43 Speaker 2: not the income. So it was like not that I was. I was like, It's a huge change. It's such a big year. But I was like, I feel like I don't have to work anymore. I think let's keep the time the same, but let's be more productive or smarter about how I generate income in the time that I have. And so that's become the measure. And it's like, How can I? You know, our our lovely friends are three PS like we talked about on one of my trips. I made it and I don't know, 00:18:11 Speaker 2: sort of $1000 passive. Not really passive, but someone booked something that I had already created. I did nothing toward. They just paid. So it was like, Next trip. Let's make it that I get $5000 while away Next trip. Let's make it that I get $10,000. You know, like, How can I just set this up so that I can be just generating income without having to actually sit for 12 hours at my computer? So it's more like that. That's like, gamifying 00:18:36 Speaker 1: it. Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's the secret, right? 00:18:40 Speaker 1: We talk a lot about self belief here at the buzz, and I know sometimes we carry the opinions and expectations of

our parents right. Even as fully grown adults, there is programmed response that 00:18:51 Speaker 1: you know we have, and it often goes against our own, you know, internal core or inner belief system and you and I have spoken, you know, before about parental responses. And sometimes they just don't actually even get what You know, what we we do and what success looks like for us. They just can't get it. And it can sometimes be a bit harsh. How do you manage that and not let it get to 00:19:17 Speaker 2: you? 00:19:18 Speaker 2: I mean, sometimes it does. Um, and I've got an added mix now of having another set of parents in that I have my in-laws as well. And so and I'm now a parent myself, and and that provide a role and all that stuff. Um, I think I think the hard thing is where that our parents only really see the tangible successes. So I won an award, a business award. They obviously understand that it's a big gift, or I publish an article for Virgin Australia. 00:19:48 Speaker 2: You know, Emma wrote an article. It's very evident, but when a lot of my work was social media for a client which doesn't have my name on the door, like, you know, you do a lot of behind the scenes stuff they can't tell. So, uh or copywriting literally. I've written the entire website. I've written all of these articles, but my name's not on it. 00:20:09 Speaker 2: So they can't quite grasp how I'm involved or, you know, it's That's what's been really nice about having meeting people through these business communities and networks that I'm in because they get it and they get the little wins. Like the I didn't stay up till midnight and oh, I finished that client project, you know? Yes, like they can celebrate those things. So I think, 00:20:30 Speaker 2: yeah, I think whether her parents come in, they can see the obvious wins and successes and they just don't really know how to support you when 00:20:39 Speaker 2: And I think the answer tends to be get a job and that 00:20:44 Speaker 1: when they see you upset because But you're just upset because you're frustrated and you've got to find a way around a certain challenge. Yeah, 00:20:52 Speaker 2: yeah, So I think to get a job or 00:20:56 Speaker 2: and and like Covid was in this respect was great for me because it was like no one has job security. No. One, and actually, the people who were better set up were people like me who have ridden the roller coaster of small business freelancing, churning tricks pivoting constantly. We were the ones who rode that wave the best we were the ones who were already set up with all our kit at home, 00:21:20 Speaker 2: you know? So it was like, No, like the thing that you've been saying all along, like And I You know, it's not like I bought a house. I bought an investment property on my own, um, seven years ago, you know, whilst running my business like I'm so proud of that 00:21:35 Speaker 1: absolutely 100%. 00:21:38 Speaker 2: I just think sometimes it's like like my

dad really understood. I did a contract with World Vision and I feel like and even though we used to work together, he's seen me. And actually, you know, I'm I'm what I do. But I think the whole client work running my own business thing. Whereas when I was in a role with World Vision Australia, I was in a contract role with Cure Brains and Cancer Foundation. It was very easy to go. Oh, Emma's doing this marketing role, or Emma's doing this PR role, and I think my in-laws have a similar view. Sometimes, like, don't know, understand the business world, 00:22:08 Speaker 2: don't understand the small business world, and it can be frustrating. And And I feel like sometimes, yeah, that I don't know, not taking interest or not. Um, just not respecting 00:22:22 Speaker 2: what I do and that it's basically a 24 7 job as opposed to my husband, who has a very obvious job at Sea world. Yeah, he's a diver, you know. Yeah. Yeah, we can see what he does. 00:22:32 Speaker 1: Yeah, clearly. So how do you How do you manage that? Do you sort of steer away from those conversations? Do you focus on the positive, like, what are some of the, you know, things that that you do to minimise that impact on yourself? 00:22:46 Speaker 2: I think, yeah, there's times I think it's just being selective about who are your cheerleaders and which stories you tell. So, being discerning about which Yeah, which people you go to for which things. So I probably do go to them for more the celebration or sometimes I just let you know we're all on social media. I just let my social media speak. And if they come and ask me about it, then I go for it. But I, I do bring up 00:23:12 Speaker 2: if I feel like there'll be times where maybe I'm just feeling a bit more delicate and I'll say like it would be really nice If and I would probably do it by my husband, It would be really nice if you'd sort of take an interest in something like I'm actually doing really great. Yeah, it I'm actually doing some really awesome stuff, or like or on the other flat. I'll say, I don't think you understand quite 00:23:33 Speaker 2: the pressure and the challenges that I'm facing and, you know, you see me just sitting here on my phone. I'm not on my phone, I'm working. I'm There's a lot I'm trying to coordinate here whilst also being a mom and being a wife and being a human. 00:23:52 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's tough. 00:23:54 Speaker 1: So as a personal brand specialist where you know, you've coached for 14 years under lovely communications, what do you say? What would you say has been the most common? Why, as to clients seeking out your support. 00:24:09 Speaker 2: So I shifted to the personal brand at my 10 year mark, Um, and for me, the the common Why, why they want to run a business or why? Why are they coming to you, or why are they coming to me? Because, 00:24:23 Speaker 2: uh, because they've lost 00:24:25 Speaker 2: their identity, Really? They've lost connection of to themselves. They don't know, you know. You ask them what they want. What do you want? What are your goals? What are you working towards? Why? Why are you doing this? And they might not get an answer. They just got stuck. And why do you think 00:24:42 Speaker 1: that is? 00:24:43 Speaker 2: Because when we you know I love watching my son. Right now, he's at the most pure form he'll ever be. And maybe a few more years of that before people start telling him how he's gonna be meant to behave and what what this looks like. So I think 00:24:59 Speaker 2: as you get older, you get told what a certain role should look like in life and what a role in a job should look like. And you carry all these different roles and titles. And so you just end up getting piled and piled and layered on you. And so, of course, you lose who you are. 00:25:15 Speaker 2: And then also you attach so much to that role that if you're no longer in that role, so if I work with you, your identity? Yeah. Then the role becomes the identity. So if you were, you know, whether it be a job or a marriage or a country. I had a client who moved country, and it just stripped everything that she knew like that her location and her ability to travel, uh, from that location within, like, two other places was part of her identity. So all that was taken away. 00:25:45 Speaker 2: And that's when people are coming to meet me. 00:25:49 Speaker 2: Which stretches. 00:25:50 Speaker 1: It stretches so much beyond business, doesn't it? Like a business is just another layer, you know, but yeah, yeah, yeah. Right, OK. And, um, 00:26:02 Speaker 1: out of that group, what would be the common sort of personal key characteristic that these these people have? 00:26:09 Speaker 2: Well, I'd say it's that they're lacking and they're lacking confidence. They just confidence is gone, and they might not identify that. So I found that sometimes when I was starting, 00:26:20 Speaker 2: people don't want to be told they're not confident. And so then I probably, um, would talk more to being overwhelmed and not knowing what to do next and feeling uncertain and feeling unsure and not backing yourself. Absolutely. I had to 00:26:36 Speaker 1: use term so on point, because I know for me seeking your support, I was looking for confidence outright. I know. I was looking for confidence. I even think I said to you at one point I just want some confidence, which obviously I had to find myself. 00:26:50 Speaker 1: Um, no one can give me that, but I was very much standing in my own way at the end of the day. So I guess you know, what's your advice for people who are standing in their own way? 00:27:01 Speaker 2: Well, you've got to seek support. You just you can't. You know, you're trying to do it alone. It's so hard you can't see yourself like I just provide. I talked. I did an analogy like, someone actually gave me the analogy and I loved it, but it was I'm like the mirror. But the mirror, when you come to me, is dirty, and you just can't see

yourself clearly and you can't see what I see. I see this wonderful person and I'm hearing and I get the privilege of 00:27:25 Speaker 2: getting doing a brand audit. So looking back at, you know what's out there about them and asking them to do a questionnaire and I'd get them to dig back. And they're sort of like, What's the point of this? And it's like, I wanna know You know what? What's been your journey to get you so it this far And they just have forgotten all these wonderful things they've done because they're focusing on right now. And right now I don't feel good. And right now I feel like I'm not achieving. 00:27:47 Speaker 2: And right now I'm not where I want to be to try and do that work yourself. And I know because doing it myself is really hard. I have to call upon other people with, um, coaching or branding or marketing expertise to do it because I just can't see what you see. So I basically act as like the cloth almost to clean the mirror for them so that they can see themselves. 00:28:09 Speaker 1: Yeah, that is a really wonderful analogy. 00:28:12 Speaker 1: And I think a really great starting, you know, point for me was an exercise you told me to do is go away to my client. You know, clients and all the ones you can chat to, um and just ask them three of the three things that they think about, You know, they think of you When 00:28:29 Speaker 1: three. What was the three describing words that they think of when they think of you and I was blown away? I think that's a really lovely exercise as a starting point. If you're really in, you know, in those depths, and you and you might not necessarily be able to, you know, engage some professional support. 00:28:47 Speaker 1: Um, whether that you know be, you know, time or or money being your you know, stumbling block. At that point, it's a really good idea to go to your your client's evidence, 00:28:59 Speaker 2: right? It's like 00:29:00 Speaker 1: kind of support in yeah, getting an understanding, Absolutely. It's data well, and 00:29:04 Speaker 2: people, I think they're so afraid to do that, too. I'm so afraid, and I get two different people. There's the people who 00:29:11 Speaker 2: think they're going out there and saying all this stuff and doing all this stuff, and people just know them or know what they do. Um, when actually that that people aren't really receiving them the same way that they think. And then there's the other side, which is like everybody out there thinks you're awesome, totally gets it, 00:29:28 Speaker 2: but you don't. And so why would they believe the story? Well, they're not. You're not telling the story. You're not saying the words. How can they believe that? And why would they believe that if you don't believe it? And so sometimes it is. Your personal brand is, um, how you see yourself and how others see you. It's the combination. So beautiful. It is that alignment 00:29:49 Speaker 2: of being that if I'm saying I'm passionate, professional and lovely, you're going Yes, that's exactly what I think when I think of you or your variation of those words. And I saw some clients, sometimes it was, you know, a little bit heartbreaking and heartwarming at the same time. 00:30:04 Speaker 2: They would bring back their words and I'd go. These are lovely words. And they're like I was like, Do you believe them? They go, Yeah, yeah, that's nice. And I go OK, say them. I am fun. I am beautiful. I am creative. I am intelligent 00:30:18 Speaker 2: and they would cry. I couldn't say I am this and I was like, That's the work we have to do that you believe what these people I got paper evidence have said about you like it's out there. It's just you're you're not believing it. So you're not stepping into the version that they see. Yeah, 00:30:37 Speaker 1: yeah, yeah. You're standing in your own way. 00:30:40 Speaker 1: Hm? Great tips there. 00:30:42 Speaker 1: OK, so when you reflect on your time in lovely communications helping all of these people, what would you say has been your biggest challenge? 00:30:52 Speaker 2: Hm? 00:30:54 Speaker 2: I guess I'm I reflected on this a lot lately, Um, 00:30:59 Speaker 2: reading a fabulous book called Six Figures in School Hours by Kate Toon. But it really validated my journey was that whole feast or famine thing. 00:31:06 Speaker 2: And it's something I talk a lot about is like getting that consistency. And I think just trying to find what that consistency looks like so that there's a financial feast or famine. But there's a client feast or famine, and there's a energy feast or famine and and marketing like So when I say feast or famine, I mean, 00:31:23 Speaker 2: there's all or nothing 00:31:24 Speaker 1: kind of thing. Yeah, I hear you. You you 00:31:26 Speaker 2: know, you get all the money and then three months of no money and then so you go and you have to get all the work and then you get no work like trying to find what a consistent cash flow, a consistent client base, 00:31:40 Speaker 2: consistent energy. I think energy has been my hardest thing over the last two years with not only having a toddler but having a lot of grief in my life as well. I just finding that energy to be able to sustain the work and to keep delivering. And it's like what does then 00:31:56 Speaker 2: consistency and showing up and delivery look like for me. And I think that, you know, it's hard because it's changed and what I could do 10 years ago or was willing to do 10 years ago. I'm not willing to do now. Um, you know, then you've got outside, you know, state of market changes and, you know, world changes. I don't know, but just 00:32:16 Speaker 2: yeah, and I think, accepting that there's never going to be like a balance. I don't even like the word balance anymore. 00:32:22 Speaker 1: Integration, 00:32:23 Speaker 2: integration or harmony like how do I find harmony of how things can work together and what does that you know? How can I be in

flow or accept the times? I think it's some acceptance, and like I said, that 00:32:37 Speaker 2: saying that so many people go through that journey really validated it for me because I felt like some shame around that. Like, why can't I figure this out? Why can't I and then you talk to someone? We talked to someone last night for a $200 million business, so we got cash flow problems. It's like, Can we just remove and 00:32:53 Speaker 1: we grow it? Yeah, yeah. So it's like, Yeah, 00:32:57 Speaker 2: let's just have a kind of a little bit of more kindness around that journey, 00:33:03 Speaker 2: particularly to ourselves, to ourselves and and to others, I find sometimes you're talking to people and you're trying to open up. You're trying to share about where you're at. Why didn't you do this? Or you could do that? You should do that, mate. Right now I'm struggling, and I would kindly say to some people what I have learned, probably in the last four years. And I think moving to the Gold Coast really helped this, like just accepting the seasons, and that sometimes there's a quieter season, and I used to really 00:33:31 Speaker 2: try and hustle over kind of Dec December Jan. Instead of just accepting that in marketing That is a quiet period generally. But in the last two years, my quiet seasons have shifted. So I now have a more awareness. And I go, huh? It's just May is a quiet month for me. OK, well, enjoy the quietness, because I know that September. I've told you today. August, September, October. I'm mental. So I need to store up my energy then 00:33:58 Speaker 2: so that I can have these few big months, but then go. OK? Well, November needs to be quiet because I'm going to be exhausted. It's 00:34:04 Speaker 1: like, Yeah, so I guess the answer to that. Like how you've worked through that challenge of, you know, feast of famine. It sounds like, um a lot of, you know, self-awareness acceptance. 00:34:17 Speaker 2: Yeah, leaning into it. And then, um 00:34:21 Speaker 2: I guess, Yeah, just like finding ways to accept support sometimes, too, I think again, I had some shame around that, and it's like I do have a wonderful husband. So leaning into that and asking for more support around things or going to my network and going Look, things aren't great right now, like I need your help to pull some stuff in or 00:34:41 Speaker 1: and people want help And I think that's what people lose track of. You think you're losing face or you think it's gonna, you know, affect your reputation or blah blah, blah, blah, blah. You know, we can think of a million reasons why not. 00:34:54 Speaker 1: But, you know, I think we need to just focus on the W and the value. And at the end of the day, people want to help people 00:35:03 Speaker 2: that they know how to help. And if they if there's a specific ask Oh, they love it. So, you know, you ask them, can you introduce me to this person? Yeah. I really would love to get this one thing out right now. Sure.

Oh, of course. And just because I'm sure you would be willing to do the same one 00:35:20 Speaker 1: 100%. 00:35:21 Speaker 2: Yeah. You would hate to see someone else struggling, but if they don't tell you they're struggling and you don't know, And I think one of the challenges I face when I talked to Jade, um, my photographer friend yesterday about it is that we look, because we we have a very strong presence online. We look busy and we are. We're showing them we're doing a lot of things. Income doesn't always reflect that. And so it's like, Well, how do I show 00:35:48 Speaker 2: you have to show that you're active again, finding that, like, what does, Like I have to show that I'm active, but also still being here saying, But I have space to work with you, too. 00:35:58 Speaker 1: You're not too busy for you 00:36:00 Speaker 2: like you're just killing it. You don't need me. And I like. Yeah, well, no I. I really like you. So it's like that part of that messaging point of like, Yeah, I'm Yeah, I've got all these things going on, but come on in. Yeah, 00:36:13 Speaker 1: Join it. Join Join the activity. Join the growth. Join the You know, Joy. Yeah, 100%. 00:36:20 Speaker 1: So then if we talk about, you know, we've talked about, you know, reflecting on that time and and identifying your biggest challenge. What if we, you know, reflect on that time and we actually think about what was your greatest achievement? 00:36:33 Speaker 2: Oh, yeah. I think it was funny. I did a podcast and one of them was like, Can you? I was hoping you'd say that. I don't know. I think 00:36:42 Speaker 2: I honestly felt when I got pregnant. I was so worried that I was gonna lose my business. Not I just didn't know how it's gonna continue. 00:36:49 Speaker 1: How am I gonna do this? 00:36:50 Speaker 2: Because And I'd said I reflect on this quite a bit. I'm in a diff. I think I'm in, in some ways, a unique position because I do find that a lot of the people I've known have started the business after Children or because of Children, or, you know, they've had that corporate career and then start a business. Well, no, my, my. And you're not supposed to say this, apparently, but, um, 00:37:11 Speaker 2: my baby was my business for 12 years, you know? And then yeah, 00:37:18 Speaker 1: no. And I think I think, yeah, you should be OK to say that like, I started my business, you know, as a result of having my kids. And, um, it's like a third child. 00:37:30 Speaker 2: You have to nurture it. You have to you have to nurture it. It's a massive part of your life. And I'm very proud of it and seeing it grow. And 00:37:39 Speaker 2: And so then, even though I wanted to be a mom, I wanted to have a son I wanted to have a family. So more so than wanting to be a mom. I wanted to have a family, and we planned it. And the reality of being pregnant, I was like, Oh, my God, all this fear setting. And so I just didn't know how to cope. I ended up coping brilliantly. Um, my

son is 00:38:00 Speaker 2: a treasure. He's a delight. 00:38:03 Speaker 1: He's divine. I think most of Australia who follow you and beyond are all saying how beautiful that young 00:38:10 Speaker 2: man is. And I don't just know that he is. He is fabulous. I really lucked out. Um, how wonderful he is. So I have been able to manage. Um, but yeah, I'm really proud of myself for this 00:38:22 Speaker 2: adapting. And when you have a, um, the child, you do the nesting of the home. I did the nesting of the business. So I'm really proud of myself that I really like, looked at that and did have that foresight and future projection of And I think then, you know, 00:38:38 Speaker 2: I did get a whole new sense of purpose and a sense of direction. And I think I've been the most you know, not that I was ever direction less, But I was I've been so much more focused because it's like it's not just about me anymore. It's even though I've been married. It was like it's about our family. I want that home that we will live in. I want to take adventures together. I want 00:39:02 Speaker 2: to be able to have time with him and not be like, trying to just, you know, fight with the phone and him and, you know, so I'm much clearer. And so I think, yeah, I'm really proud of how I've adapted and, you know, honestly, you know, I just had my best revenue year ever. So 00:39:18 Speaker 1: congratulations. How do you celebrate 00:39:21 Speaker 2: that? Um, 00:39:23 Speaker 2: yeah, I think I'll I'll do something. Um, I actually want to buy a purse. So maybe I was like, I'll need a reason. I'll go buy that. Because I need my wallet, bro. I will buy a new wallet, but, um, it could be my new wallet, But I, I don't I'm saying it. I'm not a big one for talking about your figures and all that, but I'm like it was such a realisation that it was the because I've had good income years. But that was always tied in 00:39:44 Speaker 2: with my sole trader Freelance. I was like, No, this is the business income And that was It's 00:39:49 Speaker 1: pretty amazing, isn't it? When you look at your profit and loss, too, like you're looking at it and at it and you were with the 00:39:55 Speaker 2: freelance and I've just done a lot of financial education like really just got very, very serious, Um, like, and I think freelance sole trade isn't such a great way to run, and there's a lot of freedom in that. But then when you know I needed, 00:40:10 Speaker 2: you know, when it became about my family and it became about more than me and wanting to have an impact as well, really viewing like, Oh, what is this business doing? It's a 00:40:19 Speaker 1: real maturity and the growth, you know, which. I guess, you know, from your twenties into your thirties that that's gonna happen. So and actually on celebrations, I really love your reward system. I know as a business owner, it can often feel at times like you are slogging it out and not necessarily seeing 00:40:37 Speaker 1: you know, a lot of wins which we know can be extremely demotivating. I would love for you to share with our listeners a great way to turn that around. 00:40:47 Speaker 2: Yeah, I loved that. That was at the end. It was in our retreat and it was kind of an informal discussion which I would really make a sort of an exercise that I do with my clients because I didn't realise. I don't think I realised it was something that people don't. I know people don't do it, but, like, really don't 00:41:03 Speaker 2: buy things. People just don't. You always gotta have a reason. And I still have to shake myself out of that. Like, what's the reason I can buy this dress? You know what's the like? Not just because I need clothes. I'm like I have to have a, you know, justification. So anyway, I just started making a reward list, So I have it in my phone generally, but it's it's kind of a bit of manifesting as well. But I, I tie it to things. So if I get, 00:41:26 Speaker 2: uh, another the next client I get, you know, the next full programme client I get, I'm allowed to buy this swimsuit and then I Really Yeah, I love that swimsuit. But I'm gonna go and get that client and then I get to my swimsuit. You know, sometimes it's, um, going out for a drink of champagne. Or sometimes it's a holiday like, um, 00:41:45 Speaker 2: you know, it's a It's a big goal. It's like, Yeah, if I earn over this amount in the financial year, then I'll take the family on a weekend away. But I have this list of some small, some big um, we've got a mutual colleague, Alex Timpani jewellery. I put her on my list on time, and and it was so fun to like, message her and go I. I hit my goal. I wrote it down. I'm gonna go and buy 00:42:05 Speaker 2: those earrings. 00:42:06 Speaker 1: But it turns out your mum actually got them. She was really, really sweet. And, um, 00:42:14 Speaker 2: like, I know, she wanted that and I was like, Oh, well, it kind of worked out well, I was like, Oh, I'll get the cheaper ones was in 00:42:20 Speaker 1: on your reward system. Your mum, Or did you like that was just part of the very powerful manifesto, That one. 00:42:26 Speaker 2: Yeah, I'd already got them. So I got two pairs of earrings, but I just think It's nice and I don't think it has to be, 00:42:31 Speaker 2: um, for you. It might not be a, um, so materialistic like, um and I'm not a big purchaser of things. So it was a way to really Mark and and anchor those point 00:42:44 Speaker 1: and measure success, too. Like it's another way of measuring success. 00:42:48 Speaker 2: And when someone says, Oh, these earrings Well, actually, I bought these earrings because I had this amazing flight win, or 00:42:54 Speaker 2: and I've actually just made a huge decision to sell my investment property, And I've already written out the things that we're going to celebrate with, and there was a part of me that was like, Oh, I should really just put all that money into the future home. And I was like, Wait a

minute. Like I had made a very good business. Well, investment decision, financial decision, which is paid off very well. Why can't I enjoy that? And I really want to anchor that time. And so I'm actually gonna get a necklace, Alex to C to make a coin 00:43:23 Speaker 2: necklace, or maybe coins from around the world that I've collected and my anchor of being like to remember that it's like. Not only did I do it, but I can do it again. Yeah, 00:43:34 Speaker 1: Yeah. 00:43:35 Speaker 1: Oh, gosh. Yeah, You're still so young. Easy. Easy Round two, mate. Um, so recent offering has been the rest and re receive retreats. And I know you'll be focusing more on those in the future, but I'd love to know, You know, from a marketing perspective, we talk about solving a problem. What problem are you solving with this experience? 00:43:55 Speaker 2: Well, it's It's been something that I've had to sort of fight myself on, like the There's such the temptation when you run an event or an experience to like, over deliver and to, like, pack it full and what I really wanted to do. And I've been kind of it's been pointed out to me that I'm quite good at doing is giving myself time and space and doing what I wanna do. Basically, like, my husband will always like who you're travelling so much. Is your husband OK? I'm like he's He knew what he signed up for. Like actually, he quite likes time alone. It's fine, 00:44:22 Speaker 2: but you know, like I do go for massages or I will take myself out or I will buy myself a thing, and I'm vocal about it, but I realised other people don't do that. And I got the lesson of rest and receive from my lovely friend Liz Ellis, who's a coach, did a session with her 00:44:39 Speaker 2: and I came a little overwhelmed. And I got this to do. I gotta do this. I gotta do that. I gotta do this. She goes. I actually think you just need to go to bed. 00:44:45 Speaker 1: Yeah, Yeah. And 00:44:47 Speaker 2: I actually listened. I good. I went to bed and I woke up in the morning to three opportunities in my inbox, 00:44:53 Speaker 2: just like crazy. Like a podcast interview a client saying yes, like speaking like it was very like, very clear. And I'm like, All right, I'm listening. And I just wanted to, you know, I really want to make it. It is a business. It is targeted at business people, but anyone can come. It's really that opportunity, opportunity, and rest looks different to some people. Like one of our lovely ladies came and she said I didn't feel it was restful, and I was like, but rest to me is a walk or rest to me is sitting with my girlfriends. Talking or rest is being out of sleep in 00:45:22 Speaker 2: a little bit because I have a small toddler like rest looks different to everyone else. What? I mean, my rest is going away from the day to day 00:45:31 Speaker 2: and and then allowing yourself to dream and to manifest and to believe and to focus on your goals again. And and that's what I've always loved about travel. Like what? 00:45:41 Speaker 2: When you're just doing your day to day, you can't think big. And so to just have that time to think about that and then the receiving, you receive a lovely experience on the retreat, no doubt but the receiving. 00:45:53 Speaker 2: And I feel it was really fun. Like I listed a bunch of things in my client wins my email. They were all people who were on the February retreat, and I believe those that real receiving starts to drop in about six months later and they will dig wins, and I'm like, Yes, that's that's the receiving coming because you gave yourself that gift of time and space, you focused on what you truly want. Uh, you made that investment. Then 00:46:20 Speaker 2: you get to receive, and you can actually allow space for it to come in. 00:46:24 Speaker 1: Yeah, 100%. That's great. 00:46:27 Speaker 1: So it's a pretty sweet gig, too, right? Let's be honest hanging 00:46:33 Speaker 2: out with you for three days, I guess. I. I guess I'll have to go to work again in Kangaroo Valley in a luxurious home. I'll struggle with that 00:46:41 Speaker 1: one, but I guess if there's a listener who's looking at moving into that sort of retreat holding space, what would you say are some of the key considerations? Because I think there's also a matter of that. It looks amazing, but there's a lot of behind 00:46:55 Speaker 1: and the scenes biz. So what would be some of the things that you would recommend that people consider? 00:47:02 Speaker 2: You have to be very intentional and be very clear on your vision. Like I said, like, the temptation is to jam stuff in and to basically run it like a workshop. It's not a workshop like you have taken people away, often to a beautiful place. Allow them the space to enjoy that space. Allow them the time to spend with the other people like 00:47:25 Speaker 2: don't just jam it like 9 to 5 full of stuff that you know or or teaching because you can do that online. You can do that through a course. You can do it through a programme. I feel like a really big part of retreats for me. Is that the right people at the right time in the right place. So, honour that. But also, like, be very clear in what your you know, the like, your intention of what you want the retreat to achieve. And so then 00:47:52 Speaker 2: in your marketing, you're going to then attract those people. And what I'm finding more and more is like I have people who come and might want an outcome. And they're like, Oh, what do I get out of it? What do I get? What do I get? And I'm like, Well, I've list listed what you get. I've told you who it's for. I've told you the benefits. If you're still asking me for what you get or an outcome, I'm actually gonna say to you, Maybe it's not for you. Maybe you're better off going to a conference or a workshop or hiring a coach like 00:48:17 Speaker 2: and actually, you know, in saying that to a client she's like, Oh, OK, well, I'll probably come then I was like, You know, I

was like You have to be, have a have a little bit of letting go and that's part of it. But also think about your profit. Like I just hear about so many people. You know, it's funny talking to a client about, you know, me being profitable, but but it's so important. It's like we're not running businesses for funsies like I am in business to make money and to do it in a way that is fun and enjoyable. Um, but I think people don't factor in 00:48:45 Speaker 2: the costs or how they run it from the start, and it can creep up really quickly. I will just buy them a little gift. I will organise the transfer or we'll get a a facil facilitator and a massage, and we'll get the food brought in and 00:48:59 Speaker 2: all these add ons that happen and then a few people cancel and you got minimum numbers and then I don't know something else happens like your venue moves which happened to me, and next thing you know, you're at a break even or a loss. I've heard of people losing $100,000 on on retreat or conference experiences. 00:49:17 Speaker 1: So I've been really, really clear around 00:49:20 Speaker 1: the costs involved and then pricing appropriately, pricing 00:49:23 Speaker 2: appropriately and knowing that like that should really be in your first step. I think people get really caught up in the the you know, it looks so fun and beautiful areas, but also the work. And I had another colleague who, um, ran a retreat for 50 people, and I'm like, 00:49:42 Speaker 2: That's a conference babe like That's whoa! And 00:49:47 Speaker 2: it sounded like they made a lot of money. But I think also they didn't price it high enough, gave a lot of gifts, and it was like only when they got to that 50 mark she was like, We are just now making like this will be the profit and I can tell you from 00:50:02 Speaker 2: I had 11 people on a retreat and they had 50 we had the same profit margin. I would much rather manage 11 smaller groups than 50 she was like, Why didn't I know this? And I said because you didn't talk to me. Yeah, 00:50:14 Speaker 1: absolutely. Your capacity is incredible when you travel a lot. You attend many events, you have quiet commitments. And of course, you're divinely pop it thin 00:50:25 Speaker 1: and wonderful. Hubby Matt, I would love to know, as I'm sure many of you who follow you on socials would love to know. How do you do it? 00:50:32 Speaker 2: All this question. It's so funny. I'm gonna have to do a podcast episode on this for my new podcast, which I'll write down because it's like it just keeps coming up. And I went to see Jacinda Ardern recently, which was an absolute treat, and to see the former prime minister of New Zealand address this question. I was crying and I actually ended up sharing an email about it, but she basically said, and I'll answer the same. I don't 00:50:55 Speaker 2: I don't but also don't compare like there shouldn't be any comparing and not that's where we're going. But it's like 00:51:02 Speaker 2: you

see, you only see the surface and you only see the highlights. Um, you don't see the tiredness and the juggle and the managing and the coordinations that goes behind that. And you know, I am tired at times. And like I said to you before, this is just a season right now where there's a lot of things on, so it is quite full. And there's other times where I've gone quieter and things are easy to go. Oh, you look so busy. I'm like, 00:51:28 Speaker 2: No, I'm just posting on social quite a bit. I'm actually lying on my couch right now. I've done very little today like it's such a misconception of what we see. But also, I just think having that she kind of people would say, How do you do it all all going and kind of going, Oh, I can't complain because she's the prime minister or Oh, look, you're doing all those things. I don't do anything. It's like you just you don't know what happens behind and we can only 00:51:52 Speaker 2: we can only manage what we can manage. And I do have a high capacity. So I would never ask somebody to do what I do or the way I do it. And some of it I probably take for granted. But the answer, really, how do I manage it? I don't do it all at once. And I I ask for support and I ask for help and I when I have had enough. 00:52:13 Speaker 2: I hit the roof, and then I say I've had enough. And I go, I'm not I'm just not doing this anymore. And I call in 00:52:19 Speaker 1: support. So what Support? What? What does support Network look like for you professionally and personally that enable you to to keep 00:52:28 Speaker 2: going? Yeah. And I think I I talk about, you know, to run my business that takes 00:52:35 Speaker 2: going to a psychologist and a Kines ologist and a physio and a personal trainer and going to soak, you know, magnesium. But that's all. Actually, that's part of keeping me to run my business. So I do have that sort of support. Um, we have a couple's counsellor. I have, um I'm so thankful for my kindy. Um, Finn goes to Kindy three days a week. Thank you. To all the early educators out there. The job you do is phenomenal. It's early Educator day the other day, and I just think 00:53:05 Speaker 2: the gift they give us with our Children is phenomenal. Um, we do have, uh, family support, but not, um they're interstate, so sometimes they can be tricky. Yeah, so and you know, and that takes management. And again, that's really, really upsetting. Sometimes when I get the I talk about trying to manage that and I get kind of back people going. Oh, well, aren't you lucky that you have that? 00:53:26 Speaker 2: And it's like, I am grateful. I'm very grateful and very thankful. But what you have to understand is all of this thing. Like I either pay for it in money or I pay for it in energy and emotion and coordinations. It's for free. No. And so it all take. There's a cost to everything. You just decide which cost it is. And I understand that, and that's fine. 00:53:49 Speaker 2: We're we're getting a babysitter for the first time this Sunday. So that's a new thing for us, with a lot of amazing friends who've stepped in and helped, right? You know, it's like we can't you know, we need to formalise this arrangement. So and then in my business, I have an OBM and a VA. Uh, not full time. They, you know, five hours a week. Um, and I have an accountant, bookkeeper 00:54:15 Speaker 2: website, um, sort of SEO email kind of on, 00:54:21 Speaker 2: uh, when I need him. So Yeah, so it's actually it's a pretty big team just said none of them are full time. It's a big 00:54:28 Speaker 1: team. None of them are full time. Yeah, love it. Love it. The You know, you know, this podcast series of was created to inspire and motivate business owners with true stories about business success. So thank you for sharing that. I mean, so many times you see highlight reels 00:54:44 Speaker 1: of business journeys and and I'm conscious of sharing those those harder moments. Um, so people feel like they're not the only one struggling in business, I guess. What would you say has been your big biggest challenge in business so far 00:55:00 Speaker 2: from 00:55:02 Speaker 2: I think team I'm planning team like so if we do talk about that immediate team, um, you know, for a long time. So you know, my work is to be more focused in copywriting and social media, um, support. 00:55:15 Speaker 2: And so when I would get people, I would get busy so I'd get subcontractors in. But then, you know that famine the work would go down, and so then I would let them go again and then get busy so you have to train someone else. And then So when around 2020 I was like, I need to get that consistent support. So I started getting a VA and, you know, you hire someone and then it's not quite right. So you hire the next person, they have to move on. Then you hire the next person, and that's great for nine months until it's not great anymore. And it's just been 00:55:43 Speaker 2: there's been times through that where I've felt shame again around like Am I just, like, really difficult to work with? Like, am I just not good at delegating and, like then taking it all on myself? Um, 00:55:57 Speaker 2: I think sometimes that comes from my nurturer, sometimes trying to like over accommodate and please everyone and when sometimes it's like, No, you actually just aren't doing the job. But then, sometimes I've, you know, cried letting go of someone because I'm like, I don't It's not that I don't want to work with you. It's just it's not the right thing. And it's not the right time in my business and and sometimes it is. You can't afford it. 00:56:19 Speaker 2: You can't afford it at that time or you need a different type of support, and I guess my business has changed and grown so exponentially in four years that and now it's going through another shift. That team will look different again, but there's just I just think I I'm hearing that team and and getting that right support at the right time.

00:56:42 Speaker 2: That's it's hard people, people. I love people. But also working with people is hard 00:56:48 Speaker 1: and you even hear that. You know, within, um you know, corporate organisations. Um you know, HR people turn over. It's always, you know, high up there on biggest challenges running business. 00:57:03 Speaker 1: We all have our days, and being consistent on socials is tough, yet it's an absolute requirement, right? If you want to grow your business, reach and connect with your people. Um, I know you've had some, you know, tough times as you mentioned dealing with grief. And I've and I've been privy to some of those tough times of yours professionally as well. 00:57:23 Speaker 1: Um, but no one would know that you know how how you show up, you're so consistent. What is the key to your consistent, upbeat presence on on socials? How do you do it when you isn't necessarily how you're feeling? 00:57:38 Speaker 2: Oh, it's photos, photos and Pre-recorded stuff like Not that I batch batch creation, but also, you know, and I would be 00:57:47 Speaker 2: We talk about a lot Jade and I, Jade Warne and I run personal brand photoshoots having those brilliant photos having a wealth of library of amazing photos to pull on. I don't have to 00:58:00 Speaker 2: worry about my hair and makeup or how I feel or how I look that day. I just go, Oh, that's a great photo that represents what I'm trying to talk about. And sometimes those professional photos aren't great for, like, I have a photo of me like collapsed on the floor, Um, jokingly. But it kind of met the message of where I was at. Like I'm overwhelmed. I'm stressed like I'll do poses like that like, Oh, 00:58:19 Speaker 2: but I don't have to rely upon yeah, being able to show up on a live Or then there was a time where, yeah, I was doing less of that. I'm getting back into it now because I really love him. I really love that dynamic, but I wasn't doing a lot of video because it was just It was just too hard. So I was pulling on. I was doing more like photo reels like flash ones or pulling on old. You would just have so much B roll so much old content on your phone or repurposing like 00:58:45 Speaker 2: today I did a little recording of a podcast myself, and so I just recorded myself on my camera that I can just take snippets from and then I could use those at other times. So I think it's just having a bank of content. 00:58:57 Speaker 1: Yeah, you're right. A big bank and making whatever around repurposing and multi 00:59:05 Speaker 2: to use. And so even if you're not scheduling, um, I know that on a day where I have to go, Ah, give a folder of quotes called favourite quotes or like good things to post on social media, like literally have those folders on my desktop that on a day where I am feeling more inspired, I just chuck it in there. So the days when I feel less inspired, I can put it out. But yeah, I hope that I think I do generally want to have a positive and upbeat experience. Um, I want my audience to have it. That is part of my brand. 00:59:33 Speaker 2: I think I've heard a few times about that. Like, 00:59:36 Speaker 2: I don't know, there's a fine line between I'm wanting to be honest and tell people what I'm going through. And I'm not afraid to, um, for the listeners that I want to share his story. So my nephew in January this year was diagnosed with a rare genetic condition. Um, he was 11 months at the time, and we were told he would be given He would have 1 to 2 years to live. So he's now 19 months, and 01:00:00 Speaker 2: we just take it to day as it comes. But, you know, to see your brother and my sister-in-law go through that to see my whole the ripple effect, 01:00:08 Speaker 2: um, and to, you know, have my son turning two that week. The week that I found out my nephew might never make that like it was brutal. And so I have shared that. But I just think I just don't know what the benefit of me 01:00:24 Speaker 2: moaning, not moaning, letting out, crying and all that. Do you know what I mean? 01:00:29 Speaker 1: Like 100 01:00:30 Speaker 2: percent. I don't if there's no value, there's no value to me sharing that. If you ask me, I'll talk about it and there are days I do go on my stories or I do. Do I email my audience and say I I'm exhausted. I'm tired and this is what I'm doing and it's it's why then I advocate more for like, my rest and receipt, and I'm like, I'm taking on a dose of my own medicine 01:00:52 Speaker 2: But you know that, you know, it's just like Well, yeah, but I've just learned from my past years of I need to consistently show up in terms of marketing so that the business, because the business falling apart 01:01:02 Speaker 1: as well you don't want that. That's 01:01:04 Speaker 2: definitely not gonna help where I'm at. So I think it's tricky, and I think I don't know if that helps anyone in the audience, but it's like, Yeah, I think finding your line of what vulnerability looks like and what I don't wanna over positivity things. But I'm like I also I think I'm quite conscious and intentional about, like 01:01:22 Speaker 2: if I'm to share this, what's the thing? And it will never be for sympathy because I I you know I will call my friend Karen. I will call, you know, all of my clients know what's going on, you know, and I but you have to protect your heart as well and only share that when it's safe for you and and again choosing your audience and choosing your cheerleaders. 01:01:45 Speaker 1: Yeah, spot on. 01:01:46 Speaker 1: So you mentioned as a coach? You know, my question is, as a coach, do you have a A coach? Have had a coach, Um, you mentioned Li Ellis. Um, do you? Is that sort of in and out, or is that consistently like How do you engage in a coach coaching services? 01:02:05 Speaker 2: I started with a coach like, Yeah, really? Like again? Just that journey of 01:02:10 Speaker 2: not investing really in that sort of stuff till my 10 year mark and

then business coach helped me to, you know, really look at my business and my experience and the way I was running 01:02:21 Speaker 2: everything and my goals and and helped me to actually go down the personal brand route, Uh, and to really step into coaching and consulting I I had, you know, it's funny because I kinda did used to do it, but I hadn't owned the title Informal. Yeah, well, and I kept shifting into the doing and the technician as opposed to Yeah, the the coaching role. So, um, 01:02:45 Speaker 2: no, I do sort of, like programme. Um, I sort of dip in and out. I've had many and I just don't I don't necessarily think having a coach for four or five years is the greatest thing. And I've had clients who've run their course with me, and I know that maybe they'll come back around in a few years when they're at a different stage or they need a refresher or whatever. Like, I don't necessarily see my clients as lifetime or monthly Lifetime clients. They're kind of in my world. Yeah. 01:03:14 Speaker 2: And so yeah, I at the moment I don't really think I have one more like 01:03:18 Speaker 2: I'm I'm really down the path at the moment of, 01:03:21 Speaker 2: I think, where my energy at, too, is like and it's what I offer now hour of power, like I'm really into, like, hiring somebody for their expertise, like a pricing specialist like Justine McLean. I hired her for an hour just to talk to me about my pricing, and you do pay a premium for that. But then you go away and you take action and So it's what I'm offering my clients as well. It's like if you feel stuck, you feel overwhelmed, like Come on, we'll just we'll just talk. And if you want to do five of those by five, But I don't think we necessarily have to work together for six months, 12 months. 01:03:52 Speaker 2: You still got to do the work. But I think sometimes you do just want to work through 01:03:56 Speaker 1: something. Yeah, 100%. Take some action items, get on the next page and then off you go again. And then it's like, yeah, coming back. Like, yeah, dipping in, dipping out. 01:04:06 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's kind of where my son, Yeah, where my energy is at and probably where it's always been at, and not that I don't want to commit, but I just I think I like a A variety of experiences, and I like to be in a variety of rooms and 01:04:20 Speaker 2: yeah, so, um, but I think I'm finding as well like, even though I'm in coaching space, I think sometimes people are jumping into coaching a bit too early. 01:04:29 Speaker 1: It's everywhere at the moment, and everyone's offering to solve all sorts of problems, and I think Yeah, that that people are jumping on it. And, you know, um, 01:04:40 Speaker 1: you know, I myself, I've had a go with a couple of different coaches thinking, Oh, maybe I do need that. Maybe I do need this and I'm like, No, that's actually not what I need. Um, and so I think it's kind of a bit like Goldilocks too, right? You need to just, you know, work your way around, you know, to to find who's really gonna work for you and the style at the season. 100%. 01:05:04 Speaker 2: And it's it's OK 01:05:06 Speaker 2: to have that. And I just think I was dissuaded a lot over the years from, like doing one offs, uh, or short packages when it's like. 01:05:15 Speaker 2: But I see how impactful a one day thing or a three day 01:05:19 Speaker 1: and you're listening to the market. Yeah, 01:05:21 Speaker 2: and that's what they're saying. And that's what they have capacity for. So I'm like by one by four by 10. I don't I don't mind. I know that in an hour I can help you. I can't solve your problem. You have to do that like that's the disclaimer that you can't think that one hour Nor can you think that working with someone for three months or six months is gonna fix your business. And I think the first thing a coach should be saying is 01:05:45 Speaker 2: I can Yeah, I can only guide you and support you. I don't have the answer. 01:05:49 Speaker 1: You do? Yeah, and I'm going to help get that out of you. But it's ultimately on 01:05:55 Speaker 2: you. It's, um yeah, Denise Duffield Thomas is sharing recently, and it's like the most annoying answer. But it's also like the the best answer, and I'm like, It's your 01:06:03 Speaker 1: choice. And you know, too, I think I was told that at a very young age, someone said to me about a very personal reason, actually, and they said to me, 01:06:13 Speaker 1: Hey, I was in tears and she said to me, You know, you actually know you're not going to get the answer from me, Go away. You know this and you know, 01:06:24 Speaker 1: whole of 24. I left and I came back and I'm like, Yeah, you do. You do? Sometimes you just need to be pushed into that because you want to look elsewhere for answers 01:06:36 Speaker 2: and you want the you want the fix and you know you want to be fixed and I have a I do go to a psychic as well and all the time she's like no more. No more of this. No, No more programmes. You don't need courses. You don't need the coaching. 01:06:49 Speaker 2: You need to just look, you need to do, you know, and integrate all of that learning. And then when you do feel the need, like, go for it. Like I said, I was like, I really want to have this session with this pricing expert. It was like a no brainer, and I just went for it. I wanna be that same support for my clients. It's like they're just like, I really Yeah, I really, really need to talk to you. 01:07:10 Speaker 2: I just want to work on this thing with you. Can you Can we bounce it around and be like, Yes, that's perfect. Yes, that's that's how I can support you. 01:07:20 Speaker 1: So in the last week you announced after 14 years, lovely communications is changing shape. You have launched Emma Lovell with a different focus. How long had you been considering 01:07:30 Speaker 2: this? 01:07:32 Speaker 2: Oh, the Emma Lovell rebrand. Oh, I don't even like saying Brand rebrand because it's

me and I've always been me. So it's weird. Brand evolution brand shift I. It's a shift because it's not. It's not like I kept teasing it, and then it was kind of like this, like, surprise, like it's ta da, It's me I like. I feel like people were like Duh. But then people can understand that the journey was there. So I mean, I think four years ago, when I worked with my business coach, she would have wanted me and she told our so. It was a 01:08:02 Speaker 2: private coach, but also group programme, and she was like Explain the benefits of working under your own name and I but it was just too much change and I wasn't ready. And I love lovely. I love I still love lovely, but I'm lovely. That's my name, 01:08:17 Speaker 1: and yes you are, 01:08:18 Speaker 2: so I don't have to lose that. But I had to go on that journey, and 01:08:23 Speaker 2: it's funny like the whole, you know, even personal brand focus. It's like and I will always be able to support people with personal brand. But I really am stepping into doing it by example, and it's like I am the brand and I have a strong brand and I I've always had a strong brand, and that's what's got me through 14 years of business. And that's what we will continue is that I am the brand and the business of Emma Lovell, 01:08:47 Speaker 2: Um, and just really, really owning that. And it was November last year. I was driving off a mountain called Clearview Mountain, and it just, like, literally, like, just sort of struck 01:08:57 Speaker 1: me. I think you need to rephrase that. I was driving off a mountain, 01:09:01 Speaker 2: driving down from the mountain, driving down a hotel, 01:09:06 Speaker 2: Yeah, driving down from a hotel on a mountain named Clearview, which is I think there is some magic on that in that place. Um, and I just actually, I had pulled over, um, to try and run alive because the Internet wasn't working. It was during my course launch and 01:09:24 Speaker 2: talking to my client, Lisa, and I said, Do you know we don't have to do this today? I was like, No, I'm good, I'm good And she's like, No, I don't think we need to do that. I said, OK, then maybe I'll just have a cry. It just was just all the overwhelm and then it just on that drive. Then it just struck me and I was like, 01:09:38 Speaker 2: I don't have to 01:09:40 Speaker 2: I. I don't want to do it this way anymore. And I I remember love and the crazy thing was I got home that night and I'd done this like one day conference and she'd send a gift, which I didn't know it was coming and it's a plaque of wood. And on the plaque of wood, it said Lovely communications established 2009 and I was like, It's literally a sign like, This is my momentum of that 01:10:03 Speaker 1: time. 01:10:04 Speaker 2: And then I ended up doing a session with that coach, and she sent me a gift to 01:10:08 Speaker 2: again, and this time I kind of knew what the gift might be. And I said, Can you make it? Emma? Level established 2023. So now

I have lovely communications. 2009 has hung up and I've got Emma level. So I mean, it's been, I guess, 4.5 years, but also then 01:10:25 Speaker 2: 10 months of really kind of marinating. But then the direction came in a three hour conversation. We actually went at a restaurant. You and I had a cocktail at on the Gold Coast new colleague, and I think it's because I told her, like a podcast. You tell your whole story, but you so you only tell it in little chunks. And then I was telling you about my new, uh, retreat offering. 01:10:48 Speaker 2: Well, actually, I wasn't. It wasn't even an offering. Then I was talking about it being a master class and that being Emma Lovell gave me the freedom to do all these different random things that I apparently do. And it had a sort of umbrella for it. And she was. We just sort of honed in on that. And then she was. We just kind of came up with. And I'd been asked the same week the question by a very, very 01:11:09 Speaker 2: wonderful businesswoman, very successful businesswoman. She's like, just like, Can I ask you, like, how do you travel so much like, How do you How are you able to run your business and travel so much? And so then in this conversation, we kind of came up with like and I was like, I'm gonna have to redo my messaging and she was like, Yeah, but it was so easy And it was like, Duh. Like when it all dropped in like, this is the perfect marrying of my 14 years of business. 18 years of solitary, 01:11:37 Speaker 2: my love of self care like, yeah, retreats. But also like that coaching of like, if you're an entrepreneur and you wanna travel more or do more of what you you say you love, then I can support you to live the life that you love. Yeah, 01:11:53 Speaker 1: beautiful. Love it. 01:11:55 Speaker 1: So for the listener who might be considering this kind of brand progression or relaunch or what did we decide to call 01:12:05 Speaker 2: it? 01:12:09 Speaker 1: Um, and still working through the sort of pros and cons. What advice would you 01:12:14 Speaker 2: share? 01:12:15 Speaker 2: It doesn't have to happen all at once. Like you're not on its, you know, you don't have to come out with a massive reveal. And so I've actually been shifting. And I think people will probably notice, you know, like a binge. So I keep hitting my mic. I keep shifting over the past few months 01:12:33 Speaker 2: like it's really happened since that day. I decided, in a level it's been happening. Um and be that in some visual colours, But it be that in some messaging, being in that the content that I'm sharing in the strategy in the things that I'm introducing in the conversations I'm having I've been telling people privately for a while that I'm doing it. So I just think you don't have to come out and have everything ready. I also thought I was gonna launch my podcast and have, like, a new, um, sort of downloadable 01:13:00 Speaker 2: and even have some more sort of work done on the retreat course. Like all of that done By first of September, I set myself a a date arbitrarily, which ended up being a very significant date. But it was like, 01:13:11 Speaker 2: you know, I just and then it got to the closer and I was like, I don't I don't have to do that. And even the visual brand isn't there yet. I'm working with the wonderful Tara from your one and only who's gonna help me refine it. But she done. We done a basic colour palette. But I'm not even using the colours fully yet, and we can refine that. And I was OK to go out with it. And it'll be fun then, to be like, OK, now the podcast. And now here's my new download. And now, 01:13:39 Speaker 2: uh oh, yeah, I've now shifted. You know, this page like, Oh, can you see the difference and sort of really share that journey? 01:13:47 Speaker 2: Um, you know, even my Facebook page, because I did it on the day thinking it'll do the big changeover. Facebook's still deciding if I'm allowed to change my page name. So it's still lovely communication, but it's not a big deal, 01:13:59 Speaker 1: right? So it's one step at a time. It's not being really rigid and stuck on a plan. Yeah, I don't have a logo and flexible. 01:14:08 Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't even have the logo right now. Like putting in inverted commas 01:14:12 Speaker 1: and letting it just be Yeah, really organic. An organic roll out. 01:14:16 Speaker 2: Yeah, and I want I wanted that too, because I really want to be able to share that journey and then, you know, be that demonstration for my clients and be like, you don't have to have that pressure of 01:14:28 Speaker 2: you can have a reveal, but it can be a soft reveal. And you know, you can sort of warm your clients up to it or your audience up to it and and share the journey with them. It doesn't have to be, 01:14:40 Speaker 2: you know, because that can be quite, um, jarring. Sometimes when they do come out with just a big brand change and you're like, What I really you know, I did have someone say that, and she's like, I really it's lovely and I'm really happy for you, but she's like it's just not as colourful as you know. And you're so colourful and I'm 01:14:55 Speaker 1: like, You're like, there's more to come. 01:14:57 Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm like, Sorry. Like I'm colourful like I still 01:15:02 Speaker 2: I'm literally sitting in front of Karen in a rainbow leopard print dress with a Barbie pink jacket. It's just that the brand has evolved and elevated and matured, and it will be more appealing to people. Um, but, Emma, I am Emma the person. Nothing 01:15:19 Speaker 1: can change there. No, no. 01:15:23 Speaker 1: So, as I mentioned in the intro, you've shared drinks and had conversations with many in incredible entrepreneurs. You've sat in rooms with a huge collection of international keynote speakers. Jacinda Ardern. We've you know what? Just to name one and the Mini. What would be the three most impactful pieces of advice that you could pay forward to today from all of that

from all the people from all the people from all the interactions are there sort of three pieces of advice that 01:15:51 Speaker 1: you know you could really draw on and pay for it in today's episode? 01:15:55 Speaker 2: Yeah. So, yeah, Jacinda's, um Jacinda Ardern Dame Jacinda Ardern talking about not doing it all but also that not comparing and just understanding Like 01:16:07 Speaker 2: if you've got a problem, 01:16:09 Speaker 2: it's you know, that is a problem for you. Like, don't just go. Oh, but I'm not the Prime Minister. So I can't handle it like just having some perspective of your own life and, uh, perspective of what other people might be going through. So just going kind of Yeah, like, just focus on what you're doing and take care of yourself as you 01:16:27 Speaker 1: are. 01:16:28 Speaker 2: Uh, Emma Isaacs. A wonderful, wonderful Emma Isaacs from business chicks. Um I mean, her book's called winging it, and she really, really, truly embodies that, um, the way she's pivoted and grown and evolved and shifted and adapted over the years, and she calls it scrappy but like she's actually puts on very high quality chic has really great standards, but 01:16:52 Speaker 2: I don't know. She just always is willing to muck in, and em's never gonna sit in an ivory tower. She'll be at the event at the front table, but I know that she was putting badges out the night before, and it's been really lovely to get to know her. But also, I think you would get so much value from her books. But it is. You've just got to start and you've got to try. Who else? Who else? I just thought someone who really came to mind very quickly was, um 01:17:21 Speaker 2: oh, no, actually, I was gonna say another one. But I'll say Leonie Dawson, who I saw speak the other week. And she was, I think I was telling you about last night. Yes, the most unapologetic person I've ever seen. Um, I was literally leaning in when she was speaking like I was captivated. I was laughing out loud. I had a tear like 01:17:40 Speaker 2: I just was fully embraced in in her journey and it, but it was, um, people say they're unapologetic and they're like, I'm unapologetic and I don't care and I'll do me and da da da But they do. They still care a hell of a lot. She genuinely does not care. She is genuinely living her truth. And for that people accept and love her and 01:18:04 Speaker 2: has run a very successful business, doing many things and being this wild woman. And it's like I love that she's leading the way. It's like it's OK and it's safe for me to to run my business. However, the hell I want and attract the people who like that. And it's the people who don't don't. And so that was a recent one. The bonus one was Chelsea Pottinger we talked about, um, she's got a wonderful book called The Mindful High Achiever. Just brilliant standout keynote speaker. And she, um, 01:18:32 Speaker 2: did a breathing exercise and she also told me like If you don't drink, if you drink more than 2.5 drinks, you won't sleep and I think of her off like you won't sleep well. But she did this breathing thing where if you breathe in deep 01:18:44 Speaker 2: and you take a little extra breath, it just that's what you do before you go to sleep or when you cry, you know you go. 01:18:51 Speaker 1: Yeah, that it 01:18:52 Speaker 2: actually then resets and I still there's times where I'm feeling a bit worked up and just that tiny little, tiny, tiny thing she said, which would have been three seconds. Oh, I love 01:19:02 Speaker 1: that you've given us wellness. You've given us practicality. 01:19:07 Speaker 1: You've given us some physical, um, advice. I love it. Thank you for paying it forward and sharing it. Emma, you are such a special human. I've loved this chat. We were both recently at the Ozma Prene Awards where you came away with a well deserved win. As you know, we were encouraged to write a few words down if we came away with the win, right? And as a finalist, my words were actually around the gratitude that I had for you. 01:19:33 Speaker 1: I wouldn't honestly have been there at that time without you. You encourage you empower. Um, you've got this extraordinary network and and connections which you so welcome. You know you so openly. Welcome everyone into, um I would say it's actually one of your superpowers connection. I've got some incredible people now in my business that have been absolute game changer for me. 01:20:01 Speaker 1: Thanks to you, you certainly, you know, walk the walk on integrating motherhood and being a business owner. And I appreciate you taking the time out of your incredibly busy schedule to be with me here today. So thank you for joining me. You're an absolute gem. Love you. Lots, Emma Lovell. 01:20:19 Speaker 2: Oh, I adore you. I love you. Thank you. We had just the best connection early on, and it's been a privilege to witness your journey, and that means the world to me. But 01:20:29 Speaker 2: also, um, thank you for this is my first in person proper podcast. So 01:20:36 Speaker 1: I'm a bit old school, mate. You got a 01:20:38 Speaker 2: I got a new experience. So you're I'm doing new things with you too. And I, I just I love working with people. But I, I get as much learning and inspiration, and it's a two way street. This, you know, Thank 01:20:52 Speaker 1: you. 01:20:55 Speaker 1: If you're looking for some free resources to start creating a buzz with your digital marketing, then go to bees. Knees marketing.com dot a U backslash free. That's bees Knees marketing.com dot a U backslash free. Follow the prompts and take advantage of our free resource library and get your business buzzing