ABOUT THIS EPISODE

We’re familiar with product/market fit, but have you ever considered product/person fit? Having empathy for the end user is what differentiates the companies that design technology for the benefit of humans from those that are simply out to make a profit. So, how do we design AI, VR and AR products that promote social good—and truly change people’s lives?

Sean White is the Chief R&D Officer for Mozilla, the non-profit company behind the Firefox browser. Sean also serves as a visiting lecturer at Stanford University as well as a judge for the environmental category of the International Tech Awards. An entrepreneur and inventor, Sean is dedicated to leading the development of the technologies that enable creative expression, connect us to each other, and enhance our understanding of the world around us.

Today, Sean joins us to share his background in academia and startups as well as his experience in the early days of mixed reality. He explains what is necessary to promote the widespread adoption of VR, how to identify your personal mission, and the value in asking questions about emerging technology through art. Listen in for insight around Mozilla’s role as a ‘trusted personal agent’ and learn how the company works to create product/person fit!

Topics Covered

Sean’s background in academia and startups Grew up in San Antonio, TX Silicon Valley in 1988 to attend Stanford

Mozilla’s take on their role in advancing technology Internet is public good View selves as ‘trusted personal agent’

Sean’s experience in VR, AR and MR PhD in mixed reality Cost $1M to drive each eye in early days

Sean’s favorite recent AR experience Laurie Anderson, Tribeca Film Festival Reveals poem, song ‘inside her mind’

How to promote the wide adoption of VR/AR Normalization of hardware platform Less expensive, more ergonomic

Mozilla’s view of user identity in VR Ability to control identity is vital

Sean’s involvement with The Tech Promote innovation, change people’s lives Smithsonian AR project to identify plant species

Sean’s insight on finding your mission Worked with Professor Terry Winograd (inventor of AI) Learned about social responsibility, heart Aligns with Mozilla mission to benefit humans with tech

Sean’s take on asking questions through art Explore hopes, fears around new technologies in film ‘Art is good at asking questions’

How Mozilla tracks success and progress Measure by people using (where and how) Product/market AND product/person fit

Connect with Sean

Mozilla https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/

Mozilla on Twitter https://twitter.com/mozilla

Sean on Twitter https://twitter.com/seanwhite?lang=en

Sean on LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/in/seanwhite/

Sean on Medium https://medium.com/@seanwhite

Resources

Favor https://favordelivery.com/

VIVE https://www.vive.com/us/product/vive-virtual-reality-system/

Oculus Go https://www.oculus.com/go/

Tribeca Film Festival https://www.tribecafilm.com/immersive

Fortnite https://www.epicgames.com/fortnite/en-US/buy-now/battle-royale

The Tech Museum of Innovation https://www.thetech.org/

Crisis Text Line https://www.crisistextline.org/

FirefoxReality https://mixedreality.mozilla.org/

Mozilla ‘Hubs’ https://hubs.mozilla.com/

Ready Player One by Ernest Cline https://www.amazon.com/Ready-Player-One-Ernest-Cline/dp/0307887448

The Lawnmower Man https://www.amazon.com/Lawnmower-Man-New-Line-Platinum/dp/6304604572

English
United States

TRANSCRIPT

00:00:05Welcome to the boost Bc podcast your weekly dose of fun informative interviews with incredible guest from the boost pc network we'll dig into the latest topics are adventure capital startups and emerging technologies I'm your host adam draper founder and managing director of this b c and a fourth
00:00:22generation venture capitalists Are you ready to rock Today on the boost bc podcast i'm interviewing shaun white not this no border the chief rnd officer for mozilla which is a title that makes him sound like twenty stark and he is he's like tony stark except instead of selling
00:00:42war weapons he's the builder of the internet you should listen because we talk about how to find your mission in life and how nonprofits track progress but also more than that mozilla basically runs the internet and you should listen all right We're here with the shun light just
00:01:03completely changed the energy level chief are the officer for mozilla and basically the tony stark of mozilla that's what the job sounds like making huge moves and waves in the virtual reality and emerging tech world's but around a i and v r a r web of things and
00:01:21anything else that actually helps people connected we should basically just have a podcast together because that's what all the things we should say something you care about yeah this is what i'm r and d but from the venture capital side we both need to be sort of neutral
00:01:33parties in different ways so i'm really excited to have you way we're just talking about how the ecosystem actually has two all grow yeah so here let's start with where you're from and how did you end up at mozilla let's start there and then i can get in
00:01:46the other stuff or is it logical is all over you say where my friend you say okay where are you from i'm from south texas is actually my first job was basically shoveling shit and working with horses on a ranch and i realize that there are other things
00:02:01that one can do in the world as everyone's well well i don't know there's a metaphorical of shoveling that you probably do that's right day today that's also where in texas san antonio in the hill country around san antonio fantastic i moved out here a long time ago
00:02:14around nineteen eighty eight do you ever go back yeah do you use in on demand delivery service called favor no that's one of our companies and it's nice that yeah well it's based out of texas they sort of run the show all over texas the herd the investment
00:02:30ecosystem was growing in there oh it's fantastic i think there's a lot of really fun talented people all over texas yeah yeah mozilla should just move your traveling you're shovelling farm you started in texas you're from texas and i mean well actually it is worth going there there
00:02:47were all these interesting things were happening lived in san antonio and around it with texas instruments and there were a lot of early computer stuff there so had access to ah trs eighty if you know that he used to be a trash a d it was old radio
00:02:58shack computer and apple too and awesome These things were hit call minus one fifty one it gives you access to the assembler and it was like magic you actually could write some weird incantation and suddenly there are colors blip ing out around this screen and there are guys
00:03:16like bill budges who were making these games on it and people writing a lot of the stuff in assembly so you know there was that sort of tied between actually some pretty interesting high tech stuff that was going on and you know what was effectively a country western
00:03:31why did you end up moving out to here i went to school is stanford tio okay i got it i came out here because people were making really interesting things out here i mean you know it was the point where people were inventing not just a personal computer
00:03:45but how we would interact in all these other crazy ways with technology you said i'm part startup person part researcher part mozilla are yeah so hee was sorry i give a horrible story of what you said but basically the background is a combination of academia startups academia when
00:04:06academia is used the word for researcher they say academia yeah they don't like the word researcher and really okay and you're now rang rong over in brazil what's happening at mazzella what is your goal in the rd department but also i would love to spend some time mostly
00:04:21on virtual reality of yeah sure i mean important to think about the overall jingle right which is the the internet is a public good all right the way that we view ourselves is that we are the trusted personal agent for how people connect to the internet and if
00:04:34you think about it right the internet's been changing for ah ah long time but there's an acceleration right now that change from hey i'm on my three hundred baht modem teo i'm connecting through my eyes d n so you know all of these for the most part that
00:04:49didn't change a whole lot except when we went from desktop toe mobile there's a sea change that feels like it's happening right now which is around mixed reality of whom you are in a r around speech and language around the web of things all of these new ways
00:05:04in which we connect to the internet and for our mission that means we're going to be there we're going to be that trusted personal agent for people in those other space is it the ubiquity of sort of the internet that's made that change possible Is it just the
00:05:17fact that it's everywhere it is still have this old paper report from mary meeker from nineteen ninety four and they talk about how there might be as many as one hundred million people on the internet it's one of these places where well what's crazy about that is you
00:05:32just before this said that their twenty to thirty million developers basically for the internet no they're almost as many developers is they predicted for being just online and it's growing right i mean the ways in which we interact with the internet what the internet is seems to be
00:05:49growing faster and faster and so a lot of the stuff that i do and that our teams do it mozilla's both about the new ways in which we do that right so i know you want to talk about beyond way we'll talk about whatever it sounds like we
00:06:01just have overlapping interests you want talk about exoskeletons i don't know what the browser is for internet exo skeleton but i'm happy to do that robots and biology that's when my ph d's in and so it's actually a place like is near and dear to my heart from
00:06:15the work that we've been doing and the stuff i get really excited about now is what does it mean when we are that trust a personal agent you were talking about the iron man suit for people in the existing three d world and as that grows and changes
00:06:30over the next five and ten years your ph d was actually in virtual reality and mixed reality mystery really what was it specifically are just to that was situated visualization in mixed in augmented reality so is about doing things where you take visualization put them in the real
00:06:46world an example of this was like visualizing what shooting basketball or any of this kind of stuff i was taking the visualization field and computer graphics and computervision fields in mushing them together so when oculus launched the kickstarter you must have freaked out that must been pretty cool
00:07:03just excited to see a lot of this stuff happened right like it's a reality it really is i mean we're talking about his early right in nineteen ninety three i was putting headsets on and you know they have these massive bulky things almost like a motorcycle helmet right
00:07:17And it would cost maybe a million dollars just to drive each eye and now i e i did not know that's great that your eyes were like bugging out when i said you know i mean we'll figure it out right here was super expensive do it you get
00:07:30a reality engine one of these reality engines drive on i all this stuff was amazing you could do these amazing things right fly through the air explains all this stuff but it wasn't particularly democratic it was art there weren't that many people who are just like here's a
00:07:46million dollars i would like to fly for a second yes but now you can do it for well high end let's say it's fifteen hundred dollars low end like two hundred alright even going down you know a cardboard on one of these kinds of things right zero dollars
00:08:01and a piece of cardboard what head said are you spending the most time in there's not one headset actually so i spent a lot of time in the steve i've spent a lot of time in oculus go and prototypes face prototype do you see any use cases that
00:08:15are being overlooked right now in the virtual reality space that it should be used for essentially but like it's like a blind spot where is our blind spot right now well if i could tell them then we wouldn't waste line right i think there are places where we're
00:08:28discovering new use cases and part of that is because there are changes in the hardware that a really recent right if you think about it just from my user experience a very human point of view right even last year actually six months ago to try this stuff you
00:08:41basically had tto make sure that your trackers ron and played with again you got your cable's going your tether and all this other stuff and now i can sit next to one hand them go or you know one of the htc prototypes there's something like this and they
00:08:56put it on the experiences right there there's no friction it's kind of like saying hey look at this experience this try this are you allowed to say what your favorite experiences i i have a bunch of them i can tell you a bunch of my favorite experiences some
00:09:10that are old like your first experience and some that are more recent what's a more recent one one of the ones that was really interesting is a more recent one mainly because of sort of about the possibility is how we change our concepts what you do envy are
00:09:25at the tribeca film festival there was this piece by laurie anderson and it was kind of a memory palace and there's this notion of a memory palace how you sort of use spatial structures teo create and represent memories and it was a bit stark but it was really
00:09:42incredible kind of almost revealing this poem the song's thing about herself and it was like being inside of her mind and that's me was a really powerful experience so i really like that one but there was a bunch of stuff in tribeca that was fantastic i love that
00:09:58so i've not tried that but i love the idea that you're bringing up which is like you're inside of the developers mind essentially like the creator's mind because that's how i feel whenever i'm in a v r x experience i'm like i'm in their brain right now and
00:10:13i am either like feeling very overwhelmed or like i'm accomplishing my goal it's the first time that you can really step inside someone's brain from my perspective using technology it's weird well i mean we talk about telepathy all these other things in science fiction fantasy right where we
00:10:29use narrative to explore what it would be like if we had this thing that was magic and magic is just technology at a certain point from your perspective over the next five years what needs to happen in order to make via are sort of more widely adopted so
00:10:45that several things and they have to happen one the physical hardware platforms actually have to become more normalized they have toe be less expensive they have tto be or economic they had to be an experience that you want teo do even if you're not just another early adopter
00:11:03have you ever used an apple newton which was a predecessor right tio you probably get one in a museum somewhere you go to best buy is over right You probably get something like it at best but you know it's a big clunky thing and it gave you a
00:11:19picture of what something would look like in the future and you know now you have these small little tabs that are barely weigh anything that they're like pieces of glass and the same thing feels like is happening over time and so that brings more and more people who
00:11:36are not just early adopters in terms of the ergonomics right someone who is a game of for instance normally is they're used to doing weird things about stuff that they put on or props for things that they hold are you a gamer I do play games yeah what
00:11:49what you're like game of choice i will fully admit the most recent game i played was fortnight and do you do consistently play fortnight not consistently but a part of it is because i don't played too many games because for the most part i know that if i
00:12:04start playing too much get sucked in yeah my co founder and i we play super smash brothers for the sixty four yeah and that's like our game i mean i obviously have played a bunch of your i'm obsessed with space pirate trainer like i'm pretty good at it
00:12:18i was a top three hundred score at one point we were gonna talk about beat tabor so i haven't gotten as into beat saber yet it's more because of what you're talking about which is i a little bit have a i have to master this problem like i
00:12:31feel like i get good enough and like that takes hours like don't look at how many hours i've spent his face fire trainer it's embarrassing so fortnight is like crazy it's become this crazy thing was this your first time playing or have you been playing for how long's
00:12:47it been out six months that's what something like that i was actually taking a professional stance on this when i was trying to better understand what it was like i was watching your friends people i know get obsessed with it trying to look at some of the game
00:12:58mechanics of it and just some of the creativity that is being expressed through game where there's both this building and something is like a tag or first person should someone told me this that there are personalities to gamers so they're only like four or five personalities you khun
00:13:14b as a gamer and there's the collector the or battler person the discover i'll look it up while you're talking next most games target one of these personalities and then like world war craft was one of these ones that had it all like the social experience social is
00:13:33the other one and then there's one more i don't know what it is it's fascinating because like you have a gaming personality while you also have a like human personality and like they might be different yeah that makes complete sense right i mean you know if we show
00:13:47up with their identities in different places those part of where the internets interesting yeah where do you think identity fits into sort of the next years of the internet with v r is that something that you guys talk about Oh yeah i mean for the work that we
00:14:00do and mozilla we have firefox reality which is this next generation three d browser we have hubs which is way too do really low friction social immediate interactions and for both of those identity is important part of that right One of my early start ups was actually a
00:14:17company called who where it was about Email and your contacts in all this other stuff that was a web based email that things that you did were incredibly important to people right now look back at fortnight something that's making over four hundred million dollars a month mostly a
00:14:33four hundred million dollars i didn't even know that that is crazy mostly about how people are representing themselves means that there's a lot that we care about in terms of identity and and for our mission we want to make sure that people get to control that right that
00:14:46if i am out there in the world if i'm interacting with anything whether it was a game or medical system education system anything that i get teo control my identity and so the stuff of hubs is actually pretty interesting because a lot of the work that they do
00:15:02and from a lot of their experiences what does that mean when we're doing social interactions do you guys try toe host team meetings in v aria the hubs team actually has all of the stand ups in v r okay that and that that team meetings and stuff from
00:15:16v r that's this interesting challenge right Like on the one hand you get sets things up so that you've already got all the equipment set up on the other hand you want something that i share linked to you and lee could suddenly be talking and that's a lot
00:15:31of stuff that the house guys are focused on but you know they're eating their own dog food yeah and you sort of have tio like for enthusiasts and we want this to be like the system that people use at some point we all have to use it enough
00:15:46that we expect other people to use it that much yeah that's the that's right the viral ality coefficient or whatever they call that well and that's part of being a early adopter on lady these thinks right and also doing it now so that as other people are using
00:16:00it we did the hard work we did this suffering so s so that when it gets out larger community of people that actually it's a great experience you're linked unless there's something about you being associated with the tech oh yeah yeah that tech museums i'm on the board
00:16:18of the reboot reality you should come in and talk to the group it will be great we do a lot of work with the tech fantastic mozilla doesn't that i have a history with the tech laureates program so you know they have benefitting humanity completely yeah so i
00:16:34do a lot of work with that program you're like a tech st internet is good it's the common good and then well you know it's one of these if we do that right then it makes it better for everybody right there's more innovation there's more opportunity people's lives
00:16:47or better it feels like there are real things if you look at the stuff of the tech is doing right there are simple technologies that really changed people's lives oh yeah we'll find that a lot of the things that we do you make some small change whether that
00:17:01isn't like firefox browser that something in a prototype we're doing and that little shift actually makes a big change in someone's life i was very fortunate that i got to go toe like the awards dinner thank they have this award and they give away a bunch of bull
00:17:16prizes i guess it's like the oscar tackle s o i was a laureate in two thousand you were night all awesome yeah and it was part of an a r v r program it was very relevant it was really really i know it sounds strange radio so that
00:17:33tech has a number of different awards one of them is around the environment and i've been working on a project at the smithsonian in columbia university on identification of plant species because species are disappearing faster and faster and faster and so we had one system which was on
00:17:50at the time it was super unique and interesting right use a mobile phone as away toe identify what something is what the species is and help scientists use that but a lot of the other prototypes were actually using augmented reality so that you are walking through the forest
00:18:06you look at ah plant and it uses computer vision to tell what it is and then they are to display information about that around i'm picturing it it looks awesome in my head and they still talk about that by the way they're still talking about that project that's
00:18:21good to hear yeah that's fantastic i love what they're doing over there because the whole thesis is like inspire the next generation to see what the technology is all about it's very much associated with tech for the common good it is arrested brian set of things right so
00:18:37mozilla's supporting that now and it's one of the fantastic it all comes around like there was a cohort with nancy level in and crisis text line if you know those folks but they're kicking ass that's fantastic when i went to this award show like i guess i just
00:18:52always saw the capitalist side of technology where you know you're trying to build this big company you're trying to you know make more money you're trying to and then when you go there you see these people who are literally like solving lifesaving problems that are not necessarily local
00:19:11like in the united states but are in africa or asia or wherever there's somewhere where there was a billy reuben like for baby's problem like they created like a low cost light it's like ninety nine percent effective for billy reuben not to be a knish you with babies
00:19:27anymore and like that's crazy like it's a three hundred dollar thing or less that they basically give away two people just to save all these it's amazing well and spend a lot of time on the tech but i think they do a lot of good work were pretty
00:19:41aligned with them a lot of the projects are also meant to be sustainable yes that's right so it's not just that something lives off of a gram pit if you find some way to not on ly do this thing which is an amazing social good public good whatever
00:19:56but it also actually has its own economic model its own sustainability or gross actually even own a space but is doing it in a way that is really focused on the person they user the thing right it sounds like you are self aware enough to know exactly what
00:20:11you're like mission is it feels like you're on your message shin and mozilla army person general personally let's say that there's like some twenty one year old kid who doesn't know what their mission is like i was in the situation today and they're asking me for like career
00:20:27advice and really i'm thinking like what are you curious about how do you think that you found what your mission wass i think it was ah combination of very early experiences and the opportunity of being in a place at the right time yeah i'm fairly self aware right
00:20:45Most of these things are about timing and where you are and what you've been doing at the time when i first moved out here i was fortunate enough to work with professor terry winograd e m was one of the inventors of the a i he did this thing
00:20:59called shirt lou it was really interesting and so i learned a lot from terry about computer science and stuff but what i also learned from him was about heart so terry and head down this program called computer professionals for social responsibility who was in a lot of stuff
00:21:13and he'd even shifted from a i like one of the leaders in the field so thinking about human computer interaction that is like what does it mean for people to interact with technology how do we have technology benefit people earlier you asked how i ended up at mozilla
00:21:29it's because that mission that personal mission actually super lined and mozilla the heart brain coinciding to interact make technology work with humans better love how technology benefits humans got it works with the tech works with the stuff i was doing with terrio works at mozilla so you figured
00:21:49i have surround yourself with people who have a similar value system i would call that your tribe so you found your tribe that's awesome i just felt like even after talking to you for twenty minutes i feel that that's basically that was a good question ask you so
00:22:03i you exude having technology helped the world have you seen ready player one I have seen ready player one and what did you think I think that it is great that we have storytellers and hollywood help us explore both our fears and our hopes about new technologies I
00:22:23love those movies I love all of the sort of the sci fi movies off the exploration from a user interface point of view Every single one of those interface is generally terrible You would never want them but they look great on screen now I mean it's true it's
00:22:36a great way to think of it you talkto he's handsome guys who worked on some of the iron man interfaced afraid he is trying to make something that looks like real interface but he's also trying to make it look good on the screen It's theater Yeah same way
00:22:49When someone is in a theater environment they're not actually doing it for real And so when the kid's ready player one eye like that it explores The things that we have fears about in terms of disappearing into these systems or if there's about totalitarian governments for what's happening
00:23:05in our crime politics like all of these things i think are worth exploring and that in some ways safe for us to explore through theater through art through all these things aren't good at asking questions it's one of the reasons why we like to support a lot of
00:23:19these projects around the arts is because you know a lot of times you just don't know with technology so first i like the movie in general also i have a lot of v are people in this basement but also just in general we've talked to levy are people
00:23:32not everyone liked it and the reason that in like it was wasn't exactly the book yeah it's nothing like that that's not true and i'm not your wife and then if you watch it and you're like this is just a different thing it's great it's like a great
00:23:44movie but what i really loved about it was a little piece of what you're talking about which is they did something that was really really hard which is explained what the experience of virtual reality is without being in virtual reality and they took an hour and a half
00:23:58or two hours whatever it was and like explained like how v r consort of work and they went back and forth from real world too not real world pretty well into the oasis like those air the little things like i think of over the next five years what
00:24:12needs to happen like education is always like one of the major technology achievements that needs to happen like we need to educate the market on virtual reality yeah and then i was going to change all right did you ever see the movie lawnmower man i haven't been brought
00:24:25up so much i need this frequency so we'll see if it's interesting because you will see that right and you will get a very different model for how we thought about v r and the future right during these weird tumbler things and it's crazy right it's too far
00:24:41but tron john's another version of that like gets sucked into the game yeah that's right i think about that all the time with saifi like most of what happens in science fiction like has been built now but it doesn't exactly look like they make big leaps in the
00:24:57books and the movies and the whatever that's what i mean about the storytelling kind of lets us explore these things that we've been doing that since mary shelley wrote frankenstein right we're like technology what's going to happen we do this how does mozilla track success or progress you're
00:25:13not the same as like how google would track success i don't think or how other companies maybe this maybe it's the same actually i think we would write when we're looking at the impact that we have how do you measure it the people who are using it we
00:25:27look at and measure the people that are using that where they are around the globe how they're using it a lot of the things that we do it is making sure that by having those people using the system i mentioned being that trusted personal agent right it also
00:25:43means that when we work on standards bodies when we do work on policy all of these things we have the leverage to do that because we have impact across more and more people so it's the way that you would if you're doing a start up and you're looking
00:25:58at mobile mallon downright i don't one of those things are the same kinds of thing that's just focused on mission in life that makes sense to start ups like the best and the worst thing about them is this infinite hope there this infinite hope thing it's intoxicating to
00:26:13be around and then they have these huge visions and like our jobs sometimes to explain like what the process would be to like get to that vision and it's like do one thing like just sell one person like get one person to use the product like whatever it
00:26:26is I mean a lot of what we talk about in the emerging technologies organization we're doing a lot of this stuff is there's the scaling experience and you're right you know masters of scale we're not trying to get to a billion people there is the product market fit
00:26:39right and then there is really the product person fit is there a thing you can do that one person will love and not want to give up love empathy for the end user ends up being the best entrepreneur but i stand by it if you could come work
00:26:53in muslim perfect okay lightning rat are you ready for the lights waiting lightning round Do you think it's more likely that humans will not drive in the next five years or not be able to die in the next hundred I think it is more like we're doing like
00:27:12drive i think it's more likely i think we were still going to die so the next hundred years we were still going to die The funny thing about the lightning round is sometimes we're taking more time on these okay best song of all time hard to handle why
00:27:27Because it's got a driving beat whether you're talking about the black crows song or the otis redding version of it there's a part where you could just hear that scream of soul coming out of it i love the decisiveness honestly with these questions i'm not sure if i
00:27:40would be able to answer them this is why i get to ask the questions if you could solve one problem in the world today what would it be feeding people feeding people yeah that's getting no feeding people if you could play one video game for the rest of
00:27:53your life what would it be oh whatever the next version of civilization is envy our that we're talking about later you maybe forget whatever the next question was i was going to ask in my head civilization where you can play the role of different people while doing sort
00:28:12of a tower defense against a bunch of other people that sounds awesome right like the most epic dick thing of all you could scale it in and that would be global scale down toe down to the lake the archer you liken archer and you're like okay and you
00:28:24teach all my archers had like shoot these arrows that specific things okay you could meet one person and ask that person one question who's the person you would most want to me actually i'm going to change it to e my life like i blacked out in the same
00:28:40way you did earlier to okay your ideal dinner with two people you get to meet who are those two people well one of them actually would be barack obama right and part of that is because when you talk about people are impacting change barack obama and albert einstein
00:28:59it would be an interesting conversation would and plus there would be this part well play basketball and andy and einstein would destroy you guys on the team play basketball I think he was a player If you could have one superpower what would it be flying What is your
00:29:16definition of success The impact we have on people's lives perfect thanks for being the best we see pockets This is great to have you guys great to meet you Thank you so much for tuning in during your busy day to learn about scifi technologies For more info on
00:29:33what we do check out our website at www dot boost dot bc or give us a follow on twitter and facebook at boost feces a big thank you to matt calendar coyly and ben lovell for their support in creating and producing this podcast a musical thank you too
00:29:50mellow drive in there a composer for our amazing intro and an outro songs If you need music for your digital content check him out at mellow dr dot com Lastly thanks to tim hollowell with the podcast group in washington who didn't incredible job mixing this audio boost vc
00:30:08is all about helping amazing side by tax succeed If you haven't idea you think we should hear get in touch with us at boost dot vc slash contact and make sure to sign up to get notified when applications open for the next accelerator tribe Also we love to
00:30:24hear from our listeners so raid us and drop us a comment on whatever streaming service you use way would love to hear feet back that's it for this week and unfortunately we don't have enough time for mark sacrifice but be sure to tune in next week when he's
00:30:38available this is adam draper signing off you pube you

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