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ABOUT THIS EPISODE

Dan Romero isn’t just a must follow on Twitter, he’s also in charge of Coinbase’s customer apps. I chat with him about his journey into the blockchain industry, how sales boosted his career, and what he’s excited about right now in crypto.

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United States
explicit content
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TRANSCRIPT

00:00:00now entering this client all caps Network
00:00:28welcome listener you are now plugged into another serial podcast
00:00:34every Batman
00:00:42this is Evan. Nice I'm here with Dan Romero from coinbase before we get started I always give the disclaimer that that I work for consensus so if you like this by casting you can think of it as being supported by consensus and if you don't like it then you can blame a sedan, in the mobile apps so you know that whenever there's a price spike you're about to get swamped is there like a little pit in your stomach every time there starts to be a big price increase of here we go again I don't think it's a pit in my stomach it's more I get on higher alert I'm very much focused on what what the team is focused on which is making sure that the site is up so customers can get access to the platform but I'm actually not doing anything right I can't make the psycho back up enough to do that so I think for me it's more moral support and if we do run into any issues particularly if they have a a car
00:01:42does rpr impact its trying to manage that component but we spent a lot of time over the last year investing Insight reliability we were able to handle a lot more traffic in December then we were say last may we still had some downtime and I think we've we spent a lot of time in the first quarter this year investing in the reliability of the platform we didn't have any major downtime my senses when we hit the next boom cycle and in real volume spikes I think we're going to be able to handle it don't don't hold me to that all right I've been really really impressed with the dedication of the team working on this stuff when no one's paying attention now and hopefully it'll pay off later do you try to forecast it internally like what you think it's going to do if the price goes back up I think about it is where are the bottlenecks in the system today so if you were to put extreme load on the website in the apps what breaks down
00:02:42the weather is at the database is it some component of the the code base and then invest efforts in in refactoring and building code for scalable systems around that you have to think about it as coinbase Brian started it by myself working on nights and weekends while using Airbnb and you start with kind of a monolithic architecture and very focused on getting the product Market fit so you make trade-offs where your kind of optimizing for Speed and getting the product out rather than building for scale doesn't work out no one cares that you had the most gullible synonym versus the opposite and you have a bunch of examples of messing Twitter probably had captured as much attention for being down them in the head the fail whale right as Esquinas but ours is a little different so I think we have a tweet for a minute that's probably fine if you feel like you can't get access to a finance
00:03:42Apocrypha prices moving around I think that's a lot more serious and into something that we've specially the last year year-and-a-half have double down on in terms of dedicating people to it and even though we're not having any site up time issues right now we have a dedicated team of folks who are just thinking about scaling for the next bill so they're just constantly going on trying to stress test things and then whatever seems like the bottleneck is what they focus on X pretty much both the stress test component and then just looking at the Cove Base and saying what needs to be real architected and we are connected for ten or hundred xscale the perk of being a Silicon Valley as you have a lot of senior Engineers here that have kind of gone through that and so whether they're actually working here at coinbase or or leveraging them in Atmore open capacity you can get that knowledge transfer when you need it and I think that's that's something that we've been in dusk allotted so how much did you sleep in the last few months to compare to the last 4 months of
00:04:42Dante and where the man was just out of control I try to sleep 8 hours every night and I think it comes up the expensive if you believe you can kind of sleep work and then have a personal life and they gave him at the expense of the personal life and you can ask my wife there were definitely some night special in December where there wasn't a ton of sleep but I think generally not sleeping 8 hours leads to sub optimal decision making and and thinking so it's I feel like in some ways I slept less when I was working in management consulting because of the client service business and you're kind of on someone else's deadline whereas cure the work never ends and if you're not sleeping and taking care of yourself you're I think going to ultimately end up in a bad situation you're going to totally burnt out well now you're in more of a Management Raleigh you have decisions to make that don't have obvious answer is so you have to be sharp rather than getting stuff done right so I
00:05:42that's a good good Segway until I talking about your role at coinbase how is your I mean how has your where did you start and how have you changed along the way what you've done for years ago April 2014 pound the business development team how big was the desks I'm kind of an open floor plan so you can stand up at any point and see everyone who worked at the company when I started I was in the business development team and we were big one only at the time we were really focus on signing at Merchant's so I think the first week I was there I was looking at doing a merchant partnership with Budweiser for Summer Concert Series where you can accept Bitcoin to buy the Earth which at the time was a pretty good
00:06:42it started with Overstock then we had Expedia and Dell and said that. That was exciting didn't play out at the use case but I actually shipped it over pretty quickly to watching us in Europe so in 2014 we had a couple of clones pop up in Europe that were pitching themselves as the coinbase for Europe that I didn't got our competitive juices fired up I bet and I spent the summer looking for a bank in Europe I went to a bunch of different countries but with met with dozens of bags and ultimately found a bank in Estonia weeds continue to work with. Thanks since they've been a fantastic partner of ours but it was really an on-the-job education for me about bridging
00:07:27the cryptocurrency will hold with the traditional Financial World from there I became the bank guy at coinbase where I managed are Bank relationships first first International and and then in the US and so shifted more from Pure Business Development to operations and managing US Bank relationships you are a consultant did you have any any experience with the payments stock no I didn't know you could charge back a credit card when I started I feel like I said that was a boot camp and if it's self take Aleve and I was in charge of risk there if you've never done this most people have no idea how complicated you know interchange and and your Merchants Bank and all of that and chargebacks as well that out crazy an Antiquated all that can be so I mean I hear you talk about establishing it near up and that sounds really hard
00:08:25fortunately I had a ignorance and willingness to just be optimistic that I could do it I got lucky and found a great partner and somebody really it was it was the bank taking a bet on coinbase rather than us doing it the other way around and I think it's work well for both of us but I never told you a year before I would have been in Estonia trying to the sign up a cryptocurrency companies thank you thanks did you go visit any idea 50
00:08:54yeah it's a probably closer to 25 but it was in UK Spain Germany did a bunch of other calls you know if you can get the bank in the EU where if you have a bank in Estonia which is a pretty small country you can accept Euro payments from any Bank in in in the you you're managing think relationships and I guess that takes acento 2015-2016 I got promoted where I was running a bunch of different operational functions to recruiting Finance support which we can definitely talk about support in 2016 and 2017 the bank relationships business development business operations so I got a general education and in running a lot of functions at a startup. Kind of went into hyperdrive in 2017 and then I'm really really happy
00:09:54with the leadership team we built out and. My focus now is exclusively on on the consumer apps.com in the mobile mobile apps and and I don't have any of those now in terms of you know we hired a surf rod on a couple of other really great exacts in Tina's running support Emily's running Corp to Rachel's not running calms and I was kind of looking back we now have five people doing what I was doing in 2017 by myself and then obviously there were tons of other people to company or working on the stuff but kind of put 2017 and perspective was really pushing everyone at the company be to the edge of their limits in terms of what they could be doing it and it was just a function of of the market we didn't do anything different the product is just all the sudden you had a lot of people interested so I went back and researched like I read all your tweets basically from near the beginning of 2017 until now and I tend to do pretty extensive research before
00:10:53I was you can definitely tell when I didn't mean I could almost just guess what the prices were based on what you were tweeting right because your tweets got much less interesting as 2017 went on and then you just quit Twitter / 4 months somewhere in like August September much less frequent as well do you think that's fair do you think that I like you yes or no I actually left Twitter and 28th September as a exercising just could I do it I am obsessive about checking Twitter I may be less on now having gone through that cold turkey nothing from September through January 1st but I really basically cut all their social media out I think with social media I found that I was just kind of checking it in the same way you eat junk food if it was just sitting there and it was clarifying what was important last year at least from work standpoint and I and I found that if if I was going to be investing as much time personally cuz like I said that
00:11:53sleeping and working I shouldn't be spending any time really on Twitter and and to be honest I didn't really miss it I think I've come back to using it cuz I do think it's a good way to pay attention to what's going on the ecosystem and then you can get a combination of what what activity people are chatting about in the company slack and just at the lunch table as well as as newsletters which I think are kind of higher signal-to-noise ratio thank you I appreciate that so I had to do it I've heard that you owe no crypto crypto relative to coinbase equity if you kind of played out coinbase and if coinbase ends up being successful. That's my coach of the cryptocurrency just generally don't like conflict of interest I think it tends to be a way for people to
00:12:53discredit your ability to kind of make statements because they assume Mal intent or or you're out of line and you have some set of incentives try to remove is much from the trolls as possible for the funny that you mention it because coinbase is a bit like in Santa's or just in general on this face I feel like I end up explaining consensus to people and I find it just is being one of the bigger players like coinbase as well as can sizes just get a lot of your rational hate and I think it's just from being the big player so it attract a certain amount of whatever do you do you feel that like you certainly have to get your fare your fair share of Twitter Charles Wright and if you spend enough time on our Bitcoin
00:13:53you develop thick skin or you don't make it a place like when guys right and are really bad I actually think that they're great check on anybody who has too big of an ego because they're quick to find any flaw in anything but I think just generally if you kind of are born on on the Reddit subreddits of crypto you're going to be able to deal with a little bit of Internet Hate and there's a lot of it I saw like people automatically blames you for the card processing issue a few months ago and then didn't believe you when you told them multiple times it wasn't our fault which is somebody that's dealt with the payment stack I totally right away I was like oh that's got to be the trash like none of the stop-work not as it should and that you had to feel like I was frustrated assembly Gray
00:14:53want to hold ourselves to standard if we had been doing an amazing job with everything and there weren't as many issues in 2017 around current just customer experience that I think people would have given us the benefit of the doubt part of our execution last year it was good it wasn't great the beauty of free markets as people expect great and if not that they're going to they're going to not believe you and they're going to potentially look for other brands or or New New Alternatives and so I think it's a really healthy thing for us is to have to build a product or service that customers love so much that when something like that happens they immediately are blaming the other party right and and look I think we we worked pretty hard to make sure that there was a public statement from some of the other parties involved there and I will say that they generally don't do that kind of a joint statement
00:15:53we have definitely had some emotional phone calls but we finally got that out and I think at least four customers at this point or willing to give us a little bit of the benefit of the doubt they could see that we do care and I'm still trying to clean up some of the the after effects of that there's still some customers I think who who have been incorrectly charged and haven't had that fixed and we're going to continue to pursue it until every single one of them is nickel that's an incredibly humble response because I'm in the exchange business is difficult like when they have these price bikes literally every exchange goes down and people complain about one exchange and I will tell them like well then just switch cuz it's going to happen to you at the end of the different one of the same exact way because this is a boom-and-bust business anyway transition to management how did you find the transition from doing things to making making decisions did did it come naturally to you cuz they're like any
00:16:53things that you relied on to help you make that transition two-part answer to the first part I think I struggle a little bit with it to be honest I think of myself as someone who can get up learning curve pretty quickly but what I found was thinking you're good at management and actually being kind of management are two very different things the the challenges when you're doing individual contributor work at least in the type of work that I was doing whether that's meeting with an external party or putting my dick together in Excel model 3 objectives in terms of the outcome did you get the deal done or is the analysis quote good with management It's a combination of do people actually like working for you and are you effective in getting those people to execute on all the things that need to happen and you can't do the work for them and I think my initial bias at least when I really felt the first 6 months I was in a more management
00:17:53was to dive in in and do it at least alongside people and that didn't scale well and it did not set us up for as strong of a 2017 is we could have had if I think about what good managers or or Executives really and I'm kind of learning this now since we've had a bunch of people during the leadership team first and foremost they can hire people really quickly because I've worked with other people in the past and they know the right rolls to fill out in order to kind of scale the overall function and I think that my bias was to supplement the existing team that I had rather it would be okay how can we get everyone to do a little bit more because I think it was approaching it from more than I see perspective that there were some hard lessons last year in terms of if I think back on it the way to of solve some of the problems would have been actually just to delegate more and then in
00:18:53cases where things just weren't scaling is hire more people and so in retrospect that that was a lesson and I'm seeing it now with with some of the leadership folks who have come in at quintus I think from a book standpoint I dread the hard thing about hard things Ben Horowitz is booked and high output management for Mandy Grove prior to really being a manager and I remember thinking through them as kind of interesting but didn't seem particularly applicable I reread both of those books last year it's amazing when you have that frame of reference in terms of some of the examples Day gift and you realize is cliche that some of the stories and
00:19:38Isabel device that you come across that they are actually are true my philosophy on the management book says they're written for a very small audience of people but that you can learn a lot from them regardless of where you kind of are in your career but for at least for me they were much more impactful reading it kind of retrospectively then they were proactively if you been able to keep the culture the same as you've grown I mean it as course it's going to evolve to some degree but do you feel like you've been able to keep the culture the same and has it evolved over time how have you seen it of all I didn't answer is yes but it's definitely changed the core components of our culture and we have company values but the way I would freeze them would be intellectually curious culture if you're joining a cryptocurrency company in 2014 2015 even now there's some level of intellectual curiosity that plus a general
00:20:38level of optimism cynical people don't do well with coinbase Brian is a very Mission driven person and and his belief for creating an open Financial system with coinbase is very genuine in order for you to have a true mission-driven company you have to have optimistic people because otherwise new ideas that are kind of furthering that mission are going to get shot down pretty quickly it's really easy to come up with all the reasons why something shouldn't happen or can't happen pragmatic optimistic people that's a that's a rare thing and I think we've done a pretty good job of building a culture around that people are more optimistic and more pragmatic than others but I think the Right Mix has has been a key to our success but I think that the biggest changes happened and it is especially last six to nine months is it has we brought on more experienced people in the different functions we started to professionalize our culture a bit
00:21:38there is a attention there between The Fringe Dennis of early crypto Enthusiast and the professionalization of of what is becoming a big business at coinbase and I think I don't think that they're mutually exclusive Inn in terms of innovation and and professionalism but it's something you have to be careful about because the certain point you become a big company and then there are startups that are trying to do what you did to the other big companies before you put my senses if you can kind of focus on being mission-driven it's going to get you pretty far and who knows this is my first real hyper Growth Company so I'm not talking to you for 30 years of experience but but my sense is an equal preconscious about the culture change it and we're trying to make sure that it is a change for better than For Worse of the space and that's certainly true how did you get
00:22:38into the French of of Bitcoin 2013 and moved out to Silicon Valley I've been in Boston before I quit my job in Consulting and wanted to work in Tech I remember meeting up with Fred ehrsam who I had known from college and he told me what he had been working on with coinbase and they just raised his series a and they were looking for a first support higher and I distinctly remember in my mind dismissing it categorically as a Ponzi scheme and why would anyone ever want to do anything with cryptocurrency they ended up hiring Olaf who obviously now it's a pretty big deal in the Crypt the world but a year later I I become an amored with Bitcoin and this was only after reading the white paper so the good example of don't judge a book by it's cover read the eight-page white paper before making a judgment and I think if I had an early 2013 I would have immediately
00:23:38wanted to be working in cryptocurrency and probably at coinbase but I read the white paper December 2013 so the price and kind of gotten to the thousand-dollar threshold and there was that first kind of real mainstream Piqua man yeah yeah I read the paper and I remember every day for a month after that the first thing I woke up and thought about was Bitcoin and how this world of decentralized open finance could ship so many things and I just couldn't stop thinking about it and a certain point I think Fred on an email and said hey I really want to work like Windows so I came in and interviewed and I don't know babe they decided to take a risk of me because I didn't really have any experience I had a lot of energy is probably all all that I had so you were working at a startup out in the valley he day you had just found from connections yeah I was working
00:24:38the company Envoy which if you ever visit companies in Silicon Valley and you sign in on an iPad it's probably Envoy I actually sold it to coinbase while I was there and it's a terrific company but I think once you go down the rabbit hole it's very hard to find anything else interesting and I continually seen this this trend in meeting folks and whenever they they kind of hit that threshold it's amazing for them to kind of casually be interested to all they want to do is talk about crypto and I definitely accelerated last year and you just read the white paper because the media was talking about it be from Andreessen Horowitz so in the same year 2013 Union Square Ventures Fred Wilson November December time frame there is the series be from Chris Dixon the company had seven or eight people would be kind of weird if you think about it
00:25:38have two major fundraisers in less than a year and when you raise your air your two people and when you raise your be your 7 so that that was definitely kind of a alarm Bell in my head to say something interesting is going on here and you're ignorant to it and that's where I said why might as well start with the white paper you just quit your job is as a consultant tell me about that cuz that's it sounds like you didn't have a job lined up I like it anyway when you were going out there how was your interview process why was the process of that how did you decide to quit your job I didn't want to be a consultant I was an English major in college and I think it was a means to an end I was an English major that by going into Consulting I became a quote business person now looking back on it you definitely learn some skills and Consulting
00:26:38I don't think you are a business person quite yet I decided that route I moved out here and you get a bonus for having been there for 3 years if the business is doing well and that kind of was my Runway and when I when I took the job at Envoy actually they didn't have it had to raise any money so I remember telling friends and family yeah I'm working at this iPad sign in startup and they're not paying you any salary that but they're paying the equity and you know it all work out and I think some people a year before I was kind of working at a prestigious consulting firm could maybe think about going to business school so I thought I'd kind of totally gone off into your crazy Silicon Valley kind of like the TV show land and was really excited to be out here and in working with what I thought weirdest great product people right Larry and beat are the two Founders at Envoy they obsessed over
00:27:38this product and then you just don't really great to be part of something like that similarly with coinbase your your combining obsessive product with arguably the most interesting intellectual category in text because it's Crossing so many areas right economics and politics governance obviously cryptography and and distributed systems so I think all of that is I wake up everyday and going to our Bitcoin is is work not my distraction from work so that I think is a pretty cool environment to be in so you tell me the the standard track Forest you know you go be a consultant for two or three areas when you go to business school you did not do did you consider it why there was just an alert attack that brought you out there and I was at playing and there's a program that thing where if you get into business school they'll pay for it
00:28:38after business school. I think it's a pretty appealing thing where you can go to business school on and not have any debt really really amazing if you want to have a thing that I wanted to get out of his in school and I wasn't particularly interested in the party aspect of it and that's not to say that to go to business school they're wasting their time I think it's a really personal decision there's a bunch of different reasons to go I think just for me it didn't necessarily lined up so I think I feel very fortunate as I was able to get a job at a good cuz only firm learn a bunch of skills and then move out of Silicon Valley and see if I can kind of make it work out here so you said you sold Envoy to coinbase I wrote that down a question I was doing my research for this podcast that you tweeted anecdote about Metcalf and how the reason
00:29:38he had a big fancy house wasn't that he had invited either net but said he'd had to go sell these or not so I'm on fascinated by that because I was at its core as balancing sales and operations and everybody especially in business school like forgets about the sales part how do you think about when you when you see these people pitching token projects or anything but they they make like the South Park yeah my senses with consumer products you don't need sales people write the product itself should kind of weather that's their virality or social should be able to kind of build on itself but there's obviously a product marketing component that function as sales were you kind of building a lower and in a set of features that people actually want to use business software B2B SAS that all require sales and
00:30:33Peter Thiel actually has a pretty good breakdown of this and in 0 to 1 so I won't rehash that it just just go read that if you want kind of my opinion on on why cells as important as it relates to tokens though my biggest thing is the thing that sells the best is is working code right and I think people wonder how aetherium got popular and maybe I have a overly reductionist than simplistic answer but because they had a working product and you could download it as a developer and they had pretty good documentation and a bunch of different developer environment and active Vibrant Community that was welcoming to new developers tinkering around with things if you look at a lot of those early token sales on if those are projects that previously were trying to build on on other cryptos and East did a fantastic job of a making it easy enough to develop on the Block
00:31:33with with some nice functionality but more importantly is it was they were encouraging and welcoming people into it right away I think that most underrated thing about aetherium is that the aetherium home page has a hello world example words create your own token maybe 2017 took that to the extreme I think what's crazy about the the crypto space right now is it feels and I wasn't really cognizant in the in the 90s. Combo I was pretty young but my senses from things that I've read and heard they were a lot of companies that raised a bunch of money on future Promises of shipping things and we kind of saw that happened where as the kind of Web 2.0 error happened it was people could actually hack together a kind of working prototype and then put a big expectations and then you could put together a nap get a bunch of users and then go raise money and so my sense is that crypto is probably going through
00:32:33same thing where 2017 we had all these really talented developers and cryptographers and in distributed systems thinkers and they said hey I can build a better if I can do this with crypto give me a bunch of money and if you came like the goal was to raise a bunch of money rather than get working products out there so I think the big thing that's missing was so maybe sales but once you get to the work and cook standpoint attending sales or marketing positioning for your product is it is pretty important a product out cuz I mean they got to proof of Concepts you know from the way paper they are like a proof-of-concept that they were releasing right away but there was definitely a sales Elementary in the early days of 2014 where are meat I mean people were flying around I thought it was almost crazy of the time because you know people are flying in from London or Switzerland to come to meet ups that
00:33:33add 20 people in the you know like the transatlantic tell you it just till I come talk to 20 people and I was as someone that's rather cheap I was relatively skeptical of the value at the time but I would say it probably work I mean vitalik to this day basically flies around everywhere talking to people about their him for blockchain based on you know you seems like you had some success selling an Envoy and then getting a bag to take a chance on coinbase granted you had some big-name investors that obviously helps that's crazy I mean how did you find the process of of of selling it was it did did you read any books or did you just work really hard and and try to listen to people it's interesting sales to me is you go in unless you're an amazing natural at it which I'm not you kind of get beat up you make a bunch of mistakes and if you fit
00:34:34some of those mistakes the next time you get beat up a little less and a certain point you can start to anticipate the types of questions you can get a quick read on the situation and steer the conversation or avoid things that your earlier self would have kind of hit that Pitbull that's kind of like anything but Spirits for me was really valuable because I had a lot of reps I spent a lot of time trudging around Soma with my my briefcase and an iPad and bitching people on hey you should use this instead of a piece of paper and pencil writes a product decision point was not particularly tough to get past but they're still your inner least 8 startup data security there's a whole laundry list of things you need to be able to get through that process
00:35:34So within an ocean Dragon Consulting to too much cuz I add you think one thing that's interesting about this whole thing is you're 23 24 and you're getting put in front of senior Executives at Major Fortune 500 companies and pretty much treat you with with a decent amount of respect and see you quickly learn how to interact in a professional business environment if I take both of those experiences and apply them to pitching Banks you get comfortable around people wearing suits and and you can kind of blend in with those folks in terms with you put your own suit on and and have know how to properly run a business meeting and then I think that's a general read of having been a sales person you can kind of pick up on Hughes a lot of them being nonverbal that you can help steer your meeting and look you're going to have tons of bad meetings but the mentality of okay well what did I learn from this and can I improve the next one is better at least I
00:36:34and I feel like that shut you up well for for kind of a long cell cycle did you ever have a moment when you are driving around selling $75 months sign in software that you were thinking like what did I do I should have on the business goal or kept being a consultant I had a really bad memory so I don't know if I can put myself too many times back in in that situation I think no great story about like you know I'd really lost it or anything like that though it sounds like more future-oriented so I don't like not to Look Backwards it would be more is this really what I want to be doing rather than I wish I had done to business school to my mental state probably was more around to something different and I think my paper and becoming obsessed with crypto I think was a was a nice Catalyst for me to realize that for me personally working on something that is really intellectually stimulating is Azrael
00:37:33and that's not to say that building a SAS company is nothing but positive things to say about Envoy in the product but I think like I said the day to day of working at the heart of crypto I think it's really it's really hard to beat sounds like that it was a key success factor for you and getting in all those wraps like pitching people in person and sounds like you're probably basically doing a lot of phone calls right so that's like a fantastic business education right there that probably prepared you really wild to go be successful in Europe environment changed over the last 6 months because I can just tell you I used to get people emailing me from the valley like 6 months ago advice money whatever and now I have not really getting that as much and yeah I mean I'm just saying like feces throw money at crazy things in my view but it seems like there is even 6 months ago there was you know a lot more skepticism than there is now did you feel that
00:38:33Valley can get hot and cold on things pretty quickly so if I think back to 2014 if you had the word Bitcoin in your pitch for a period of time you were instantly funded and you were going to change the world. Didn't play out like I think people were expecting and I think last year was not at a fever pitch until about May when the ico's really started to take off I think I can remember one I won't name the Ico cuz I feel like I would be picking on it but the Ico that did a 30 + million dollar raise in 30 seconds was a signal to the the wire DC community that something was happening here and you probably haven't been participating and I didn't between kind of May and June and the end of last year every metric that you can come up with as it relates to kind of BC's all the sudden interest in the topic was exponential where we got to
00:39:33in January this year was just probably going to be some regulatory Crackdown on this stuff it's kind of interesting that the parents last summer and it didn't really stop if anything's accelerated through the end of the year and I think it was started to get really clear at least kind of through back channels in in February Pat this is an okay and there's going to be some serious consequences for people who are totally plump plotting the rules we'll see how that plays out my senses what's happened in the valley weeded out a bunch of folks who kind of or just anything that said i c o or crypto they were they were all over there now not participating right now because it feels too risky there are definitely though a group of now converted as I call them people
00:40:33seating the next kind of stage of of companies and those companies are going public sales right there doing either actual Equity rounds which is the most days and then others are doing kind of tokens but trying to be as far from the 2017 era Ico so as to avoid maybe some of the screw today and we might be in a market that is kind of hate to say up down or sideways but but the idea is maybe more neutral or are reasonable environment until you have another Catalyst or some major breakthrough that that kind of kicks ass back into a Anew rapid appreciation Cycles may be what I would call him so I guess what do you do for fun outside of going base recovering Boston sports fan I don't have a ton of time for sports so basically I'm a very hittable
00:41:33is it relates to the Sports World what a bad scheme like to cook my own devices and I'm by myself I'm very content rating I'm pretty big introvert and that's generally you see my first sip of tweets tend to happen on Saturdays when I buy can sneak out to it a coffee shop in and sit down I'll just sit there and kind of let the the thoughts that have been building up through the week out I don't know I think of myself as a pretty simple person what are you at what's exciting to you right now in the space I am really excited about people building on top of permissionless open block chance I think I try to remove myself from the religiosity of the Bitcoin versus ethereum verse Acts cryptocurrency camp
00:42:34and what I'm much more excited about are the kind of apps and interesting things people are doing with crypto it's the reason I got obsessed with it to begin with is thinking through all the potential things you could do with Bitcoin and I didn't crypto kitties as silly as they are are a huge Innovation and I'm really excited to see what grade of entrepreneurs are going to do with digital Collectibles xanga from the previous era was any indication you can actually build a decent sized business selling digital goods and I have to imagine digital Goods that are provably rare and you as the consumer own rather than some proprietary digital asset that a company does I think that's a that's a pretty interesting canvas for developers to play around with a lot of the financial
00:43:34stop the topping within the aetherium ecosystem in and not necessarily say that it's only going to happen. But I think that's where the highest concentration of to predict all the applications for the internet in 1994 right and I hate using what year of the internet are we in crypto cuz I think it is different and things happen and shorter time frame but we can also very much be in the 80s of the internet for crypto yes thank you somebody recently there was like what and I was like no or where the 80s in the combination of 80s 90s and and maybe Web 2.0 I think overly simplistic comparisons are probably not helpful by the same time it's interesting to Think Through the history of the internet and what you say says were six
00:44:33early on and which ones ended up starting maybe smaller but getting big time and it kind of maybe trying to extrapolate at least the kind of core lessons from that and then maybe apply to some of the cases were saying now but the beauty of the stuff is also it's just it's it's Global right there can be an invention that happens in China tomorrow buy some smart entrepreneurial team that anyone anywhere can pick up and apply in their country and I think that's just such an exciting possibility that everyday I kind of wake up and I'm like that thing happened did someone actually come up with something that is so powerful from a whether it's a developer consumer standpoint and it probably won't just happen overnight cuz nothing like that does but at least someone says it is a great example of something that started off pretty quickly
00:45:33there's some set of events that kicks off folks using an app that built on top of ethereum or where should they get in touch with you follow you on Twitter I'm back so yeah dwr on Twitter I have a pirate Avatar I don't know why I just do yeah I was actually that was one of the questions I was going to ask you that I had last year there was an 18 year old version of me that thought the Steve Jobs quote round it's more fun to be a pirate be in the Navy I found that image online somewhere I don't know if I remember where exactly but I found it put it as my avatar and kind of stuck ever since awesome thank you for the work that you're doing and at seriously I get a lot of flack but you certainly been crucial and bringing people into the ecosystem so thank you for that and thank you for coming on the podcast

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