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Peter Walker is a political reporter at the Guardian newspaper. He set up the Guardian's bike blog and his new book puts the case for a healthier, safer and more people-friendly nation. In short, a Bike Nation. In conversation with Jack Thurston, Peter talks about his past life as bike messenger, how his views on cycling have evolved and why he believes now is a critical tipping point in Britain's long and chequered history of cycling. Continue reading
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00:00:00welcome to the bike show with me Jack Thurston now if you were listening to the last episode of the podcast you have heard me and Michael Hutchinson getting nostalgic about the time when Britain with a nation of cyclists many years before either of us what he only gives the most out of The Sharper Edge forecast today isn't about how countries like Britain America Australia can once again be combined Nations and why that would be a very good thing Peter Walker is a journalist at the Guardian newspaper in 2009 he set up the spark plug which has gone on to become one of the go to places for Reading Writing and debates on cycling I'm not just covering stores in the UK but all around the world welcome to the bike show pizza thank you very much
00:00:59black nation that we can be talking about that a few years ago you were ranked in the top 50 most influential people in British cycling list for mice my working life so often it's not very much which you know you do with the Bible of that sometimes why that's a big gap between posts Eeveelution reports as people who ride by how we got from where we are now to tell me about about you how you became someone who rides a bike and about will you ride bikes what's ghost mean I did too kind of usual thing that most kids do I kind of road bikes around stuff like that but then it went through. I'm about 14 or 15 if I kind of discovered you know girls
00:01:59pops and things like that way I just didn't really affected set an event to my team that didn't do a lot of physical activity at all then I left University very secure which in London the time was you know a quiet kind of Fringe thing to a dude but this was kind of an email was only just started coming so in that area but she couldn't quite a lot of cash at a couple of years in London doing that the number to Australia on the time that two days a week since I can become to really really big pot for Life Addison sandwiches written by clothes I was in two kinds of Adventure in sports writing I did kind of in a long time
00:02:59that much because the guy didn't really have any coverage if I can it wasn't just an interesting things to talk about on my initial thought it was just as fun let's try out new bikes at 2 that's the thing about selecting it's kind of entity I did realize that in one sense people like me who have you know depends on the gear ratios and can't come and fight scene Christmas present since we see the cops I live I just only ever going to be a tiny percentage of the potential people could ride bikes and Eve at all possible it would be great if you could just get everybody riding a bike. Because you know it's a hobby but just cuz it's a good thing to do
00:03:52can you summarize where the world is in terms of cycling and I guess it's going to be talking about maybe it does help to narrow it down a bit is cycling to get around so I can is transport not the kind of cycling that I was talking about much will always Michael Hutchinson loss last time with his bike thing as a Pastime so I can get spoiled so this is where is the world inside King Subs in Italian this until the 6th and the Germans and some other European countries I need a very south Nation where is just part of the white people live by countries but sit in the cities like Sunny London some of the places in the UK New York City various places in Australia
00:04:52Beyond just pick Levi to work as being the kind of Phoenix freaks you know I did not mean that in a kind of funeral post expensive kind of Outlaws he really liked it and he's starting to see more and more and more everyday people today and that is as much does that financing else as well as I that proper separated bite lines in the other interest rates people need something to me because you know I do kind of wonder where things are going but the signs of it if you are policymaker then actually just makes more sense than everything else you know you just take person to speak to besides if you don't do something very very quickly because the city is completely seizing up
00:05:52all of those things suck dick how much better so maybe I've got so much invested in that supposed to be done
00:06:04that's a very positive spin on it basically pointed out the fact the cycling is in decline in global terms simply because China has given up and see if you would look at it looks like thing in the world we are on the downward par for the minute because of China the world's population yet it is somehow symbolic of the process of urbanization and the car culture that is being a picture of the of the 20th century and it does feel like that of optimism
00:07:04it still feels very very marginal and Global terms and the meteor is still has a bit of a cranky kind of strange thing that's an outlet from the bicycle with a pretty uncontroversial means to transport lots of people did it to a point where we could bore on the roads it feels like it is strange when China's it very interesting one because that almost saying what you could argue in runways a kind of accelerated kind of curve of what the nations in the west did and yes I mean do you know the number of Charles cars and cayuse in China has increased massive family I lived in China for a couple years and kind of 2001-2002 Beijing Venom
00:08:04Los Acosta it was still quite big bike lanes and you see quite a few people on bikes and since then the number six assists to Cline Master P and yet evening Charlie you can argue that you come and say I think the Celtics pick up for some tool public Bike Share systems at the London Boris bikes in China that really really taking off from my vagina has the world's biggest Chinese because that so I'm Democratic and centralized in plans and then make sure the system you know outside so difficult bikes outside every single Lego train station and there are some people saying that something to happen to me all this each other is just one example injuries kind of notarizing very quickly and I need
00:09:04can you take a bit more time but in terms of this kind of general idea of taking place lampert's in Australia American song it's probably as much effect of the fact that people to ride bikes all the fuss about increased can a busy night yeah in a few places the overrule level for cycling in Britain on where you going out this what kind of want to 2% of all trips but you know transport can suddenly change really quickly you to get these kind of moments when people realize of status quo is just not already working on it can change but obviously I'm guessing that is ever going to be a second coming back in this is it yeah I kind of have been saying that for a while
00:10:04plug which is well worth reading trolled concert which is a I guess you're familiar with hand side to transport saying we are on the verge of a bicycle Revolution and going back to the early 1970s it's just about to happen. Do you think this is different at T and can you diagnose Prophecies of the past failed to come through for the reason they didn't come true he's pretty much saying the words I don't actually mean it I mean in the past it's never really been backed up with considerable amounts of money to for example build a bike Lanes or Siri kind of things but she was she was she do need and it's kind of a job if you ever get sick
00:11:04when did the task which of a junior transport Minister gets VA I guess I can breathe faith in a woman under the wife to say if you had this is at so I can see which is not going to end well I think could potentially change suddenly you have you know politicians in power who sings this is amazing supposed to choice I would think it's going to be the negative externalities of driving was pushed him into doing it I really think the health is going to be one of the big things cuz if you talk to that is a massive massive massive from the crisis boats in Central and local governments of the people live in Apple stock at 2222 pension affect the people they need to have long-term treatment for conditions like
00:12:04tattoo and physical illness and stuff like that and there's really no other way of doing it I'm guessing people living in a healthy life and he told to any public health sex but they will say you can catch people you want to go to the gym you can say everything that might last few weeks. But if you integrate into everyday lives then that's what makes a change things like Public House pollution global warming you know what do you think is the time scale for those kinds of payoffs in public health because politicians on notoriously short-term if they thinking about the next election if they thinking about anything in the future then I was thinking about the lifespan and if you get a child cycling to school now then no ride a bike in the end as they grow older they won't become a be so they would get type 2 diabetes when they're 50
00:13:04long since I'm six feet under project so for example you have petitions you 20 years ago starting to plan crosstrail I need the things which will probably either open beyond the term in office but this thing that one form of Transport Minister described his Grand project that kind of stuff is from the Commission in a 2 billion pound project where is the problem with white lines example of equipment and stuff it's very basic traffic you doing stuff with cheese in Newton Trailer Tech and if there is no argument why because as you say it's long-term rentals
00:14:04glamorous stuff so you kind of almost need to petition to show how it's done and external factors of luck to you as thinks about about so I can transport from the point of view of of riding a bike is the sheer amount of violence and death that there is on the roads and that's a tremendous chapter of your of your book covers this I'm really well and Davis statistics from the World Health Organization is 1.3 million violent deaths on the roads a year globally Which is far more than a knife Primal terrorism violent deaths that shoot to the top of the political agenda of every now and then in in response to another outrage I just don't understand
00:15:04find how come we've become so in your does a society as a person killed on the road since four founding life-changing event for them and I may well change that despective but a society we do I get the kind of the multiples I am by it I'm kind of the same and I think it's as with any subject like this Emoji look into it the more you realize you just completely crazy. Obviously it take to get to recent events I don't mean to downplay the terrorist threats but one of the calculations that I did in the book is I come to the precise States post something like 8 or 9 is the number of people killed by terrorism in Britain was roughy the number who killed on the roads every day and a half and it's pretty much
00:16:04area of life where I kind of sudden and violent death through the negligent so it attention of someone else as soon as I kind of, and possibly that chapter was one that you're emotionally affected me the most because it's think about the echo something's changing color vision zero movement you going to work peace and Britney to the office after flu but she is almost even more than riding a bike it's a slightly Fringe thing when you go onto that road test even look at you see if you have a crank oil change even when Transport Systems changed so if you do have a city where transport is much lower speed and Ice much more about Fulton bikes and it has to be a few people will you know if you made me to or or or killed so it might even need to wait for something like that but all the while that's going on
00:17:04typically in poor countries you get the great majority of poor people in those countries determine cause they were riding bikes and walking on the side of road 220 Crossroads being killed I think it's completely astonishing collectively between hyper and its enormous death toll in it so you could teleport yourself around the world like Star Trek you know you can instantaneously transport service places
00:17:49and it would be fine it would work you need to pay some money for it but they would probably be about a million people who would vaporize it wouldn't appear at the other end of that John and I wonder whether we would a society declare that technology is a bit too risky bit too dangerous for us but we used to cause because they've been around since all of us or none on the planet were born and the fact of life but we don't seem to be able to look at them with her with an objective eye out for those about to get the crank thing totally. I feel like I'm some kind of them for the Evangelical person whose taking people to know why I called you see it the way I see it you crazy
00:18:49kind of big thing which kind of makes people Boomers without realizing it except the death toll is this illusion you've got control of whether or not it happens to you because you know people think I'm driving, can drive incredibly slow. Camino drive carefully all those people think that I could drive us and then maybe don't think about the fact that someone can just attach to control the other thing is to that this illusion of control is kind of passed on to the move on Noble Road users to so hence the fact the safety debates for Alexis based largely around you no helmets hi-vis jackets and stuff like that and it's pretty much the only wear one of those people you know you don't go to that pool and they say well your flight stuff you know over that Subway is a kind of you know yellow jacket put it on my nuts to texting place people wouldn't accept that
00:19:49and there is no argument in from the kind of very start all cars Whispers whisper said it was in her they were in charge of the various mishaps Ever Knows the kind of decaf The Magnificat squash that was well let's let's talk about advocacy in campaign is pretty depressing you talk to a lot of vodka Advocates bicycle campaign is in the broken that's really interesting insights that book for what about who may be involved in a small way and I'll local dating to the local Authority or what you made 11 cycle group so I can tell her MP3 friends
00:20:49x what are some of the best and most effective powerful pics of bike advocacy some of the best things that you seen people do you know what are the most inspiring stories of trips are made by bike to face I thought you pretty good and I love that you're down to these slightly eccentric campaigning groups was late 70s and I did a lot of the kind of tactics that they know that they said there was this famous campaign
00:21:49to cross the San Lorenzo River it was not supposed to be on the bike cuz all the bridges with her cause I only has one we can get the cost on a bike so they tried to hire a canoe across then press photographers needed by the River Drive thrus and in his costume that I missed or I can if you know how old is big girl wouldn't stop and then try to talk the waters and stuff it kind of depends on historical context and there's also another kind of less that's a cool group work in the background is loping in a local mind of its own Parliament need to find something for the for the bridge but it took him quite a long time but again it's like and what kind of gloomy think it just depends on look so for example you know the New York City change is almost always just because they had
00:22:49to NYC CC not kind of passionate bike ride when he first got into office he commissioned this big report in to have interview Okeechobee, so yes, next time videos Billy know some people they want to do a myth that and you know he's someone who's kind of very rational person and people riding bikes so he set up and help the lines? Boris Johnson who was someone who wrote the bike and got a second to him as mad at you he was not going to sign for a effort to him and just you know if we have nothing to lose we just built it so it's interesting that often does rely upon some charismatic individuals whether they are Advocates or specially I think people in positions of power
00:23:49to me it is worrying because as you mention it it it doesn't seem as if it's a done deal in terms of policy-making depends upon some of the top who's unit to use the phrase. It is obviously a big public backlash against the cycling of Transportation Department kind of dog from business-to-business and kind of tell him look like mine is going to kill it kill your trade is to be good for you and I kind of really helps introduce that kind of stuff and it's like one of those being a consultation on them you have people at loans in Sikeston campaign and Zino CTC and various other people like that who will save them and
00:24:49and take pot and show that the appeal of the things I found quite easy to kind of pontificate on Facebook on the old Twitter that does not the same way I want you really need to do is to you look like I'm still love you and be loved by anyone to show that the kind of nimbus we can white lines are there any people often cycling Advocates a quiet kind of really really boring being pretty much counterproductive comes to my mind when
00:25:49what kind of power is Tony Blair in 1997 there was quite a strong possibility of a different kind of transfer policy with John Prescott and I think the political scientists describe it the bicycle Alliance groups in UK that I would each other over what they should be asking for the debate over segregated provision and kind of rights to ride in the road and not be run over the two wings of the bike advocacy position see if you can agree on what he wants then we're just going to take a break and I'm getting with what we can do and what you made up your mind come back to us at the window virginity slam shots
00:26:49any bike advocacy group hiring in a few individuals believe that the kind of Mozart Spanish tile system is way to do it it was held back I think you need to remove the few places by this the advocacy groups tended to be dominated by the kind of quinoa artists who sold everyone should be able to come to take Elaine and kind of keep that Cadence up and need a ride with traffic It Up Stix in the u.s. you had dinner was not the league of American bicyclists was such a big leak American real name which was dominated by that creates for many many years and I was in touch throughout the book and I told me the only change over from that kind of vehicle recycling approached by 6 or 7 years ago it's not really kind of slow things that I tend to think that if there is a problem with the two things it's a people who would much much much rather kind of pontificate on Twitter right not to do anything and even those 10 from the people who are
00:27:49to argue over
00:27:54play fun part about the industry confidence trick because I can't possibly be serious people riding bikes but hopefully not too many bikes cyclists boy that is someone riding a bike in the email of some kind of sweets do you just say people riding bikes and I understand the basic point I understand that you don't want to make a cyclist seem like a separate free and it does to an extent play into this this kind of narrative of Sciences being a kind of out grew from being different but I think in the grand scheme of things at the funny Smule sing I think the language will have less meaning when you get more people riding bikes even bothering the other way around
00:28:53do you think that investment in Elite level Olympic cycling has a kind of trickle-down effect in terms of every day so I can see right now because British cycling is going through all kinds of crises about other stuff than this but the UK sport set up a new policy when they had an infusion of money from the national lottery which basically said the most important thing for us is Olympic medals and gold medals especially I will allocate the money According to which sports in gas the most gold medals and cycling being a very nice marginal Sports and intensive Global participation but I haven't quite a large number of medals at the Olympics. Well that's that's that's a good place to get a good return on money in Sims metals and you know they'll be a trickle-down effect which will have to go to work
00:29:53that's why I hope it get more people riding I'm healthy Nation I'm older all the other kind of things you can talk in about the good things about Lion King theme sky on related issues in relation to the way it runs itself it is not about having success Elite level being a spark for the bicycle Revolution I'm in everyday life. We do have the mammal the middle-aged men in Lycra is a feature of society that it wasn't 15 years ago but do you get the sense that there is a connection and that it is worth spending all this money on Elite level cycling to get the kind of pay-off in terms of every day so I can hold true to you. I think if the government decides it wants to spend a lot of natural National Lottery money on cycling so we get a lot of gold medals in New Britain
00:30:53so very good about yourself once every year every 4 years I think it's fine I'm certainly has suddenly gotten upset you people are very very interested in cycling Sport and fellow drivers old books and things like that I would say the most effective advocates for every day starting in Britain the moment Chris Boardman tattoos that kind of policy Chief is the most successful in the most individual advocacy but the kind of big cat that has to be if you ever want to get moving you know tripled since before adding bikes ask me this shift away from this idea of Sikeston being a kind of cute I'll be we need specialist equipment and that being nothing more than kind of woke
00:31:53much more against a nice way and for that I think you know that Sports success can maybe help push you from 2% of people you know using bikes for metrics two maybe three or four percent but beyond that it has to be the most much big stuff like central government building infrastructures central government taking measures to making to make driving less easy so I can has done eating really really really good things but that's kind of a limit to how far they can push it and what do you think the children is in Incycle advocacy we both dad's and I certainly feel that the riding with my children who are three and one and a half on on the bike and riding with them and thinking about that lives growing up Emma what is going to be like that has totally changed my views a little bit or maybe just some shopping some of the edges I supposed
00:32:53because I kind of am worried about them and I want them to be kind of have some of the freedoms that I had when I was young Michael creepy Star Lake Road cycling campaign here in the time Irrelevant in South East Wales and that kids are pretty ambassadors in the cycle campaign that you know when you get the kids off of the front of a photoshoot and you make the arguments and Times of keeping the children safe childhood Freedom which is something that David hembrough who said Britt base Dover Inn in Holland talks a lot about about the Lost freedom of childhood I started to carry around on a bike and he was on one of those done kind of like about year old is one of those seats which grows on the cusp
00:33:53are you in Me Gently aware of the kinds of vulnerable position that you're in an incredibly incredibly this kind of gung-ho at Sikes is pb2 Curry and what can you pick up with any kind of traffic into thinking you know this is right that really really has to be a kind of backed away from this right is on bike he recently goes first bite with gays but she's like the terrifying seem like a really really quick look-see makes me sing well I'd love him to be able to cycle safety on the roads they have kids should be sex or see you know it in Britain you never ever ever do that and kids
00:34:53I kind of traffic in the environment and the less they look like a kind of tradition like sports writer then the more kind of humanizing that does not a good so when the London bike chest is intended. But if it was 2012 you suck me had this big contingent of people who is cycling around who were wearing like we weren't wearing helmets on the often like families of tourists they what kind of cleaner can head down cycling to destinations for kids have a good they were just coming from place to place I think that kind of human element is the kind of teeth making people realize you don't want more so I can can do for place and I think kids are the best example of that cuz his nose on the bike I did not make the case that cycling is fun and sucking is kind of unusual is it for the mode of Transport which on the bus is fun
00:35:53tube is fun play some people think driving a car is fine then I suppose Insurance on Mountain Road in in the Rocky Mountains maybe it is maybe it is fun but generally it's pretty miserable in the car is something that is fun and I think most people even though we have had this is the greatest thing since I think I can still remember that fun of being a child on a bike and when they see a child on a bike that kind of wakes up in them if I can go to be fun now for me 20 30 50 year old 6 year old person bikes can get down to slightly kind of arcade and Technical until debate about kind of curb height some traffic lights and do you know helmets and things like that
00:36:53Alex it's good for me because I don't like the kind of flute while it's easier if I don't feel awake when I get in but if I ride my bike and I still have to take you longer and it's about 3 or 4 miles I got it I feel energized and you know I enjoy listening credibly important things one of the things I really enjoyed finding a fat ass about doing research for sport is there is a thing as chance if you miss one class I can retire at age people who are too old or too ill Tails divided by themselves and I'm convinced me be put in the front differential singing pedal ground so they get the feeling of being on the bike again
00:37:53open a confrontation about it doesn't countries with stuff like that and there for the motto translated the right to feel the wind in your hair which is really kind of summing up what kind of my kids that's quite right yeah I saw a tweet a few months ago by Nicholas soames who is a member of parliament he's he's a very ditional Tory MPS lunch is in some gentlemen's club well turned-out need to go to this voice and he tweeted about how he just got his new bicycle and how it was great fun tearing around Westminster and pretty sure
00:38:53change the game for a lot of people people like Nicholas soames to might have had an enormous lunch at the Carlton Club in South Wales is Haley and everyone wants to break a sweat when I have to go somewhere do you look into a paradox Israeli of the story of Canada increase in urbanization and what robots can play is the most bikes and design hasn't really fundamentally change 420 so yes but at the same time I think in Britain required insulated from the Evite world but certainly on Continental Europe and massive something like getting close to 50 Cent Store only bike sport bikes and in Germany it's a very very similar thing and very obvious things
00:39:53helping people commute choir loft hair longer so when I was talking to the Copenhagen infrastructure Max they said they say you can kind of divide 2 miles in about six or seven different roles and he sang between Seattle and severe bikes Appleton eye abilities really really long straight bike Lanes which means people commute into Sentra town from about maybe 6 or 7 miles reason you wanted to do but the other thing to is the antifa dutchie bikes have really really help old people and cycle campaign is that was talking to the same as increasing numbers of Dutch people who compliments that late 70s and feel that no longer either willing to drive the car but will quite happen to use an e-bike can you get around in visit family and friends in the you-know-what can stuff and it has the potential to make cycling inclusive thing which
00:40:53in any area can I was speaking to a disability Mobility company and she uses on a hunger strike and she said that's kind of get took the kind of love the night and then you know it's time you think happened to Anita makes it much easier first traveling a reason number of miles so it's something which as the battery life gets better and better and that's how do you think it's strange that seem to like to talk about electric cause a lot of these new policies for supporting electric cars and making sure that she calls available to people in charging points in a kind of stuff happens if they specifically excludes electric bicycles pedal assist bicycles
00:41:53the reason reasoning is the steps the policy in public transport electric bikes bike pedal and make and eat them all the time taking someone out of a car which is a fundamental misunderstanding of how it works I would like to change really get some slightly annoyed about always saying these electric charging points in and like the local supermarket I use his car to electric charge right next to the entrance and then never ever use I've never seen electric carving charge that you know seen lots and lots of money that's invested in the in a knot and you know obviously you're going to live in the City full of diesel cars electric cars are better but they still give many of the same problems
00:42:53didn't give people any physical activity and all the kind of things like that they can still kill people and I said yes he likes her massive massive missed opportunity to ministers and I really hope that that's going to change and do you think the Technologies like this car lowering the cost of getting around by taxi and things like Zipcar which in the UK map shorts out of space City by you have a membership of a car club and you can check out the car for a week and work a couple of hours do you think that they're coming into the ascent Street breaking the ownership link between people in that and that the car that they drive do you think that is going to be part of this suboptimal equilibrium of car culture may be opened up a few chunks of like for for bicycles of people to not feel quite so committed to the car
00:43:53can you get into the future gazing stuff to get quite difficult but I think this I do if it's kind of sharing economy does make a lot of sense when it comes to cause because you know the stats all that if you do most people eat outside doing nothing just going to get you losing money for that 95% of the time which is not a very efficient way to use you know something that cost no fluff cash and what are the interesting people I spoke to with someone who's racing in this people called sidewalk Labs who are kind of Google Spinners kind of an officially part of Google but they're very much kind of backed by Dennis called Google and then ask it to focus on how technology can change the way kind of urban life is and this guy was talking to his he was saying that you say 15 years in a pretty doesn't know that he's guess is that it's going to be the driverless car technology that was really change it and you know he's saying that it's
00:44:53possible that in a couple of decades time then an offer of people won't bother having a private car because you can have this kind of Municipal Citywide need to support the type system with wireless cause what if you need to go somewhere then you use a kind of app on your phone is be summoned to you and then you can come there for you to travel 12 interesting things you saying he's obviously is the technology works at the suburbs physically in cities and states for a big and some of them could be rejuvenated the question where the bikes come in till the 5th and his theory and again this is just one person to you as time goes on people are in
00:45:53singly
00:45:55keen on having a kind of immediate environment in which they live in Austin which I work which is less kind of dominated by cars where you can walk and sit the kind of pavement cafes and ride bikes around his grandson Avery is you'll see lots of bike used for for example the first my last my old laptop miles but then you can pick up this kind of you know app summons driverless car to take you anywhere longer than that and it's an interesting idea and there is the possibility that in 20th time we just need driverless car feature which in a few people drive on the roads but in some ways even worse you know you don't even get kind of someone needed looking through the car window it it's just it's kind of annoying and breastfeeding and I don't know but it's kind of an interesting food
00:46:55changing car insurance premiums are starting to drop cuz it's sort of Technologies what you mean use and drive his cars Wichita people from reversing the car into another car already being in a few in a few it's also kind of low-level bangs and smashes which Unova Council to see in an insurance premium is it is starting to take place now while gazing into the future is a bike Nation house like clean can save the world it's out in Britain in the United States symbol taneously I think World Tour that's what I told me about this where are you going in April in the future to ask her later in the year and I'm hopefully could you get to take a look for book shop for near to you have to be so sad that I'm basically I will go anywhere when people want to hear me speak
00:47:55impatient people responding to that from you know the Bahamas and Hawaii and interesting places like that thank you very much for sharing your your take on on where the world is as a collection of bike Nations or potential bike Nations and another that the book is published by yellow Jersey and I enjoyed it immensely was a real shot in the arm for me as a kind of funny things about these things and Cat about these things and wants to actually do stuff in my local area thank you very much I was in conversation with Peter Walker author of bike Nation have cycling can save the world and you can follow pizza or send a message on Twitter he is Peter Walker 99 if you like listening to the bike show and you want to give us a
00:48:55helping hand to reach other listeners you might enjoy the show as well then why not leave a review on the iTunes music store or wherever it is that you get your podcasts I'm not too far away I'm this summer I'm going to be taking a closer look at cargo bikes on the bike show and I'd love to hear from you if you've got of cargo bike will have had any experience using a cargo bike questions about cargo bikes I've been talking to some of the movers and shakers in the world of cargo bikes I think it's a fascinating aspect of cycling and something that is often overlooked some really looking forward to getting my teeth into it and puke something to add or if you could question to ask Now's the Time so send an email bike show at residents fm.com or you can send a tweet at Jackson Justin or you can contact me through the bike show website The Bike Show. Net thanks for listening so next time goodbye

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