Have you ever had the experience of doing great work with a client, but then for some reason progress stalls? You've reached a therapeutic impasse and no matter which direction you go, you can't seem to make headway.

It's not uncommon for clients to get stuck in therapy, but the key is knowing what to do once the therapy stalls.

So I spoke with U.S. therapist Courtney Armstrong who is the author of the book The Therapeutic "Aha!": Strategies for Getting Clients Unstuck.

In this interview Courtney discusses:

  • where clients often get stuck in therapy
  • why you need to engage the emotional brain of your clients
  • how you can strengthen the therapeutic alliance when your clients are stuck
  • how to create exciting goals with your clients
  • how to locate the root of emotional conflict
  • her 5-step memory reconsolidation framework to reverse trauma
  • why it's essential to activate experiential change in your clients
  • some of her best tips for helping clients get unstuck


Get the show notes with all the links and resources mentioned in this episode at http://australiacounselling.com.au/session94

United States


00:00:03welcome to the Australian counseling podcast where we shake clinical ideas and practice building tips for therapists who are passionate about the crawler now here is your host psychotherapist a counselor Clinton power hello and welcome to episode ninety four of these credit counseling podcast it's great to have your
00:00:22company and I'm just pinching myself that we're getting so close to a hundred episodes %HESITATION I've got something really exciting planned for beside a hundred so make sure you stay tuned of any upcoming episodes I need today's episode I have a great interview with US therapists Courtney I'm
00:00:38strong and she's a licensed professional counselor in Tennessee in the US and she's also the author of the therapeutic aha ten strategies for getting your clients and stock and the book transforming traumatic grief as she's known for her warm witty style and she is also a clinical hypnotherapist
00:00:56with over twenty years experience she has a knack for crafting experience to interventions at Lisette deep healing and transformation the people recovering from trauma grief and loss and she's a wonderful person to interview and speak with I I I got so much value from this conversation seven today's
00:01:14episode we're talking about in a way to clients often gets stuck in therapy and why we need to engage the emotional brand of our clients to help them get unstuck we discuss %HESITATION the therapeutic alliance %HESITATION in and how we can restore when our clients get stuck and
00:01:29even make it stronger we discuss how to create exciting goals %HESITATION with their clients and how to locate the root of emotional conflict which is often why our clients to get stuck she also uses have five step framework for %HESITATION using memory reconsolidation to reverse trauma S. is
00:01:48a great friend like you really gonna love these and we also talk about the importance of activating experience would change to help clients get ups and stock and she says lots of tips resources and some interesting case studies on how she's helped clients become unstuck as well so
00:02:05if you like to get the shy nights just head on over to his credit counseling dot com today you slash session ninety four and money that you can sign up for my free five part II course code five ethical practice building strategies for council is just going to
00:02:20a straight a counseling dot com today you slash free now before we head on over to the interview with Courtney I wanna let you know about a very exciting online training event I'm hosting with talk to Kate Anthony of the on line therapies to cheat you might remember
00:02:35I interviewed her quite recently on the strike counseling podcast talking about online therapy this online training event is called how to use online therapeutic radio casting practice it's on Thursday the twenty ninth of October at nine AM is straining eastern daylight savings time that Sydney time %HESITATION and
00:02:54%HESITATION if you're in the US that is on Wednesday the twenty eighth of October three PM Pacific six PM eastern and %HESITATION we're gonna be talking about why so many therapists working online and specifically if you've been considering working on line this is a great training event to
00:03:12come along too because it's really going to get you a flavor of what to consider and what you need to get in place to get started with online therapy so I can it's going to be covering in the first part the online therapeutic relationship which is really the
00:03:26foundation of effective online therapy should be talking about how to work on line with the online therapy in covering things like email instant message telephone audio and video conferencing technology should be as sharing the ethics of working online already talking about how to protect yourself and your clients
00:03:45when you working on the internet and there will be time for questions as well and %HESITATION I'm also excited by throwing in three bonuses so I'm doing an additional online training which is going to be how to market your online Sir could practice which will be a video
00:04:01and audio training and you can also get %HESITATION what pull cord blueprint for starting an online casting practice twenty five questions to consider before you open your online counseling practice Angelus accusative good of training for continuing professional development points so if you like to find out more all
00:04:19you'd like to register just go to restrain the counseling dot com today you slash online therapy and you can check out all the details about this exciting training event really hyped I'm gonna see their so let's move on to the interview with Courtney %HESITATION strong hi it's Clinton
00:04:38here and I'm really excited to be speaking today with Courtney %HESITATION strong who's a licensed professional counselor hello Courtney how you I'm great Clinton how are you I'm really well and %HESITATION so wonderful to have you on these telecasting part cast because I recently came across your book
00:04:54called the therapeutic aha strategies for getting clients and stock and I'm in the store what a fantastic our topic to be writing about because it's something that happens so frequently now which isn't that we we can reach an impasse with our clients our clients could start so I
00:05:12really appreciate you have some time to speak to us about this topic %HESITATION yeah I'd love this topic now let's begin by speaking about where have you noticed the clients often get stuck in therapy have you noticed any patterns around that yes you know that the first thing
00:05:29is that most of the time when a client static it's because there's some kind of internal conflict about moving forward so I have you know for example we will ever get a great example would be at a client that I had he was terribly depressed and she had
00:05:47also been there alive childhood trauma and even though she was in her forties she still have a lot of resentment you know towards our family about some things that it happened and it was interesting because she we would talk about things she could do to help her nude
00:06:04in Previn and improve some of our current relationships but she couldn't quite motivator self to do it and the Thomas and I know that you all have run into clients like this where it's almost like they enjoyed their depression a little bit but %HESITATION as we begin to
00:06:19explore it what she why is is that you know what if I am well it kind of here it's off the hook so I will get into that as we get the TV about why it with some of that their methods we're going to talk about are able
00:06:35to help her and cover without shaming her anything like that you know what may what the advantage might be for her to staying depressed and down and what eventually came out is that you know if I'm successful and happy you know my parents just think that they did
00:06:53a great job raising me and I don't want to give them that satisfaction in so once we can bring that to life eight then there were some other things we can do to help her move past that that that that had not been fully conscious for her of
00:07:06course in so that you know a lot of the thing that I with you my book is how clients often has in total complex intercept conscious and the emotional part of our brain things very differently from the logical part of our brain though if it thinks a certain
00:07:25pattern is adaptive for some reason it will continue to create that in new at that Hey dearer that at in pattern until we can speak the emotional brain in a way that it understands that sounds really important corny so in a way is saying we need to uncover
00:07:45what is perhaps the pay off for even the upside of the client not changing yes absolutely and it's kind of tricky you know how do you do that without blaming the client you know at because of a lot of times they're not doing it intentionally mean if they're
00:08:05voluntarily coming due to counseling therapy obviously they they want change and they're often frustrated so the reason that I really want to write a spec is because I think what we usually see in our offices is people coming to the sessions and saying you know I know this
00:08:23is a rational but I can't stop doing it and so if we spend a lot of time on some of that cognitive therapy techniques that we talked about it can help them to an extent but we can't I I given a therapist for twenty years and I saw
00:08:38that people didn't really change until they could feel differently about it and sometimes just attempting to think differently didn't change how they felt so wet I began to study I am also training like this in a lot of what I learned in hypnosis is is what we do
00:08:56this but you you don't have to be a hypnotherapist easy's techniques but the emotional part of our brain is like that said card subcortical midrange and it learns to experience association and repetition it does very well doesn't learn logical analysis so we now know from near a science
00:09:19that the verbal at Pete part of our brain or not even directly connected to the emotional brain so you can't get out at three just straight talk therapy and what I noticed about sessions that I looked at thought gosh you know that system went really well what what
00:09:36created that aha moment for that person began to be clear that it it was when we could create inexperienced because that shift for them that suddenly cause them to feel differently or see their situation in a new light or and cover some of these internal conflict and I
00:09:56that's what I wanna reach a therapist has had a more intentionally create those because when you know kind of what the formula is it's a lot easier to get that consistently and get good results with your clients on a consistent basis recording I'm guessing this is why for
00:10:13some people say B. T. doesn't work like in history for example we have a people can get a referral from a general practitioner to a psychologist and get five to five to ten sessions of all of them canceling with psychology and often is CB Tay that's being delivered
00:10:30but in a many sided service in this country at the experience of clients turning out when and doorstep saying look I've done my ten sessions at C. B. T. it hasn't worked this is related to this idea you talk about in your book that we need to engage
00:10:44the emotional brain is our clients that's right yes and and C. B. T. certainly has its place %HESITATION you know I don't want to for the baby out with the bath water but I I think that yeah often for lasting change we've got to get deeper than that
00:11:00because C. B. T. can sometimes get clients and short term reserves results temporarily but I think until we get to that deeper missional pattern that's driving does situation the problem might get it an old attachment pattern in old trauma %HESITATION a learned behavior at that at the end
00:11:19of that still repeated over and over again that the client just can't simply think their way out at or did they have to constantly regulate their emotions what I'd want to teach their pathetic you is how to resolve an emotional problem not just regulated so you know we
00:11:38know this is their best even though we're therapist we have insight how many times have we lost our tamper with somebody that we let you know and and even though we know all of these great communication tools in helping the Meshel part of the brain when it gets
00:11:52triggered it will just override your rational mind and so you know I think that we can ants how to resolve their patterns completely and not just fly back to spend the rest of their life try to regulate every time they get anxious or angry about something almost imagine
00:12:13these points in therapy when our clients to get stuck there of the rejection rendez with there is a possibility that the therapeutic alliance can we can I can be ruptured because we might get frustrated with a client who might feel like repeating the same thing again how do
00:12:29you think we can strengthen the alliance when our clients get stuck well what we know and this is the other exciting thing Clinton nearest sciences validating what we intuitively never spearfish Serra so when I tell you guys the bees and the things you're gonna and know what I'm
00:12:47talking about your visit well I did that and I I thought that was effective but I wasn't sure first off the emotional part of the brain is so when I'm talking about that that's that deep midbrain area in it things like an animal or a small child it's
00:13:03intelligent so you don't have to talk down that way it's going to respond and nonverbal things settle in to strengthen the therapeutic alliance I think one of the things I encourage therapist to do you is to really be present and be very in tune with the non verbal
00:13:21communication that's going on between you and your client in fact we narrow there some estimates that non verbal communication makes up as much as ninety percent of communication we know it had to be at least sixty percent and so we we also in may that attach may it
00:13:39is formed right brained or right brained right hemisphere to write him a scare said when babies are forming attachments to their care givers the last year doesn't even come online and toll we're two years old I and so all of that attachment is being formed in the emotional
00:13:59brain right brain to right brain and it's it's through how we carry ourselves and you know it it's more than just an open posture it's how we use our waste and it's our facial expressions but I don't want to get too self conscious about that I think if
00:14:14you're really fully present it's going to come very naturally and the other things by reading our client so one of the first can help there is get good at is reading that facial expressions will let you know when the client is a change in an agreement with you
00:14:33and not in agreement so when when you're following the client and tracking then accurate he they'll be leaning a little bit forward it all it can be really settle their face and posture will look a little more open and relaxed there maybe nodding and smiling and there will
00:14:51be del elaborate on I'm when they're telling you when you're not quite eight reflecting back to them what %HESITATION which at that what they're trying to convey to you then they'll be they often will not tell you now you're not you're not getting it I don't think it's
00:15:09okay to tell us that but you what you'll see is like saying confusion or you'll see them drop back a little bit or in and they'll kind of chill there had like you know you'll see some signs of disagreement when you see that the way to get back
00:15:25into a team is simply to say I have a feeling what I'm saying is it quite resonating with you so what am I missing or went out so I need to understand and just you demonstrating that interest and really understanding act will call them right back into your
00:15:38achievement but you and then there's another little language pattern that I talk about in the book that will make a huge difference in your sessions and I call it the align left in the lead so what we're tied in AS counselors is how to be really empathic in
00:15:56jeans reflective listening but sometimes what will happen is we were really get it saying %HESITATION I understand and and you've been feeling real grass stand you feel like your husband doesn't listen to year Wendell elaborate in what can happen is is you you in a quiet place get
00:16:15stuck because you just keep talking about the problem in in there because I think have a hard time line at and how do I get started transition this towards them solution or your you know to which has some goals here and so if you use the online left
00:16:31and lead pattern it will be seamless and almost invisible your client will still feel like you're empathizing with them but that they'll be a little less always be if a client says I'm depressed when you reflect back if you just do this one little thing and and instead
00:16:49of saying you're depressed say so you have been feeling depressed I call that a has been can't change and instead of saying the client is depressing said they've been feeling depressed evil you would say so you've been feeling really depressed and then you would list by saying what's
00:17:08a great year here I'm really glad you're here or you're obviously meditated because you're here you want to do something that affirms then and makes them feel a little bit more hopeful and confident and then you do what's called a lead statement and so I would say she'd
00:17:26been having these feelings of depression and I'm so glad you're here you're obviously motivated and what you'd like for us to be together is to find a way to help you pull out of it and that seems really obvious that two S. but with the client here is
00:17:42is no I understand and other we can maybe towards this direction and just that little adjustment in your language will begin to help them feel at the listed and hopeful and a little more motivated and so there's all kinds of subtle ways you can leave that language pattern
00:18:03in and it will keep you from getting stuck in this dumb going on and on and on and you feeling like you're not getting anywhere I love a coordinate such as a simple framework but a really nice one to remember and to kind of as you say we've
00:18:17been to the conversation I agree with you a ton of notice of myself sometimes particularly when you're working with someone who has a very big issue would have been stocking up for a long time it is really easy to get hold into Jess empathizing in ascending and and
00:18:31in some ways where where collaborating in keeping them stuck content that we say yeah yeah unintentionally nine in your book you also okay place hello I'm sorry I was gonna say and the other thing that you know on it as you would give that reflection back to them
00:18:54but you can tell by their non verbal communication again if that's resonating with them and often it will you'll see just by using that Lifton lead on the end of an empathic statement I'm not saying you have to do that your first statement back to the client but
00:19:08at some point in that first session if you read that in you'll even see like a little left in their body language and in their face it's really neat stuff like that in your book you talk about the importance of creating exciting goals with their clients can he
00:19:24said it'd be about what you mean by that yes the emotional brain it you've got something more compelling than the problem to get them motivated said the emotional brain thinks like a little kids so if you %HESITATION if used you know if you had a client that says
00:19:42I want to feel less anxious and you you know manage care in the United States and a license to do these goals like unit will reduce anxiety by fifty percent you know I mean if you do goals like that that does not excite the emotional bright but if
00:19:56you said so what you like is to feel more common security so that you can the participating in some things that you don't want to participate and like you know you want to make it more specific for your client so %HESITATION let me give you an example a
00:20:11case example so this is a client of mine and he was in his early twenties and he was one of those people he actually told me he wanted to be in therapy but of course his parents sent him because he had flunked out of college twice and that
00:20:26when I asked them you know when he went to get out of there because I don't know well tell me about some things that interest you know what else what do you like to do I mean I know you school and their schools the concern and then we
00:20:40went to look at that but I really want to get to know you and no one else interest you and he's like I don't know you know you can get clients that okay so I've got to find something that skinny and I've got a I'm looking for some
00:20:55a nation where can I get some passion out of this guy so I can know what's important to him and said sometimes you have to have the side conversations and I think in our profession we felt like we got to stay really focused especially if we know at
00:21:09ten sessions but what I had to do with this %HESITATION young man as he he was working at a grocery store and I said so %HESITATION so Hey I heard that %HESITATION I was just off the top of my head %HESITATION trying to think it's something where I
00:21:23could get at it you know even a little anger out of and just so I could find out what was important to him so I said I heard it the that you guys have to scan so many items per minute or your also get rid not because yes
00:21:36it is just stupid and not really animated and so so he began to talk about that %HESITATION so what do you do like practice on your kitchen counter with a timer I mean how do you do that he's like well what I'm gonna do is I want to
00:21:49be transferred to the previous section I'm really interested in and organic her days and I've even thought about organic farming and I've been growing these all these different hasn't made it was and our backyard and he began to show me pictures on his phone and so when we
00:22:07talk about exciting goals this guy got so animated ever these tomatoes has said well you know this is where I I need to stay with him for awhile so you know I said look at you you get so excited this is like a natural antidepressant for year and
00:22:22I I you know we you know we didn't make all the session about that but we really began to use that as a starting place for something he said because he was really depressed something he could feel good about it and put a little extra energy and and
00:22:37to make a long story short he actually ended up going into an organic farming program and now he's in the middle of that program he's doing really well so you know we've got to find something that's more compelling than the problem to get someone to find that deeper
00:22:55motivation that set a great example Korean I'm I'm guessing you're therapeutic alliance really increase at that point anyway but by not side causing the problem looking looking for the excitement yes yes and I know not every client can have some great passionate interest like that they often you
00:23:14can find something are you you know you can just directly ask them and I'll tell my clients say the part of your mind that controls motivation and it has got to you we've got to find something that gets it really excited and so what would make it worth
00:23:31your while for us to be doing this together for you to becoming the therapy what would be an out and that would just make you say three months from now well I'm so glad I did that in often they can find they'll they'll let you know something more
00:23:46specific and that can be kind of the driving force for the rest of the therapy now you mentioned earlier that one of the ways we can help clients get unstuck is we need to get to the root of emotional conflict do you have any tips or ideas for
00:24:02how we can uncover the emotional conflict yes one of the things that I do is that when I when I help the client find a goal or what's desired and I think that's what we don't focus on or not taught to focus on that as much in our
00:24:19training but it makes a big difference so when it even if the client says you know I don't have one single thing that scan a really motivate me as you can say well let's get a picture of what would be desired as a result of us working team
00:24:34very now I'm seeing you %HESITATION three men turn out in a more secure at ease %HESITATION able to you know get up and go to work and feel good about it you know whatever it is and when you think about your mind working that way does that feel
00:24:49okay would it be okay to be feeling thinking like that are to be okay now that one question sometimes will prompt it because what I find it's more it's a more efficient way of working if you even and those first few sessions %HESITATION help clients understand the emotional
00:25:09part of your brain needs a destination and and we're also trying to access more positive resourceful states in the mind it will it will help the client actually be on have access to more creativity and and number source on this so if you ask them you know would
00:25:27it be okay to be feeling like that sometimes I'll think about it for a moment I'll say well you know just let my client that I told you about earlier she's like well if our that successful I'm afraid my parents would take credit for my success and expect
00:25:42me to be did it and now I can always use the excuse of my depression and alcoholism to avoid that that if everything is going well in my life %HESITATION you know they'd expect more for me %HESITATION so sometimes you can say would it be okay to be
00:25:57okay and that will get it and sometimes they'll say sure it yeah be great to be like that then you ask them what would be the down side because my guess is there could be some downside they haven't really fully articulated or thought about yet and that's okay
00:26:14on that but that's what we've got explore in order to get this moving in the direction that you want and the other thing that I that I deal with clients is help them locate the read of like a an emotional conflict that's related to a past trauma and
00:26:32it doesn't have to be a big T. trauma it can be just a small T. trauma like you know I am one of their cases are talking about in the book is that a girl who had social anxiety and %HESITATION she didn't really know why that when we
00:26:48just follow that feeling so this is this call to affect bridge in hypnosis and EMDR it's called the flip technique and he asked him just of a %HESITATION this in stations and the undesired feeling that they're having back to the first time they can remember having that feeling
00:27:06often they'll come up with an emotional memory where they learn something so for this woman that was %HESITATION my gosh I mean that she was in her thirties that she said this is the same feeling I had in the fifth grade when those boys use the bully me
00:27:19I hadn't thought about that years and what we found is her social anxiety was actually read it if you had a really bad experience that she had a long time ago and on some level her emotional brain was still afraid she would experience that kind of bowling rejection
00:27:35in the situation she was in currently so when the emotional brain to take some kind of similar pattern to something in the past it will it will activate the wet what you did in the past to protect you so what she did in the past he completely withdrew
00:27:50and avoided a lot of things so on death what her initial rain was activating began that same pattern now you also talk about memory reconsolidation to reverse trauma this is the first time I've come across this idea can you tell us briefly what that means yes a wet
00:28:07reconsolidation is it it's what we've learned from neuroscience is actually how you can update as emotional memories suggests that you know the situation I was talking about so even though this girl knew it so illogical for me to be doing some the things I'm doing only and covered
00:28:23that memory wet we could do is go back and re consolidated meaning %HESITATION when we just do exposure techniques like or we just try to tell people just start going out and and doing little experiments to you get yourself hurt you know comfortable around people again you know
00:28:41%HESITATION then you just create two pathways you create one where the mines learned where it can you can be somewhat comfortable in a social situation that they're still that believe that on some level there could be this really awful situation that could happen at any moment just like
00:28:58it did seven say years ago so what we now know is what you have do you in I'd I'd give me just five steps in my late Clinton in in all of the effective types of trauma therapy they're all following these five steps more or less you don't
00:29:16have to like be an expert in any one model if you just follow these five steps you can have data memory and the first step is to have the person recall the earlier memory that seems to be linked to the current problem and then that's our said that
00:29:32the acronym I uses recall and she can remember it quickly and he is to explore any belief that got a tax said the bulls that she attached yes I'm a loser I'm you know I'm ugly nobody likes me and %HESITATION people are mean so these implicit and beliefs
00:29:55that we take we're not always conscious of then and there will be really simple they'll be in five words or less like a little kid thinks because that's how the emotional right thanks for the review really basic like that like nobody likes me in there and then %HESITATION
00:30:10see at in the recon process we've learned it you've got to create a positive or resourceful experience before you start going any deeper that memory because you want to you want to create something that's gonna relax the nervous system because we've learned now if we have somebody we
00:30:29live a trauma is just gonna it actually inhibits parts of the brain in the prefrontal cortex so it doesn't fully integrate that memory and doesn't update it right so %HESITATION so what you wanna do is seen as you get the memory and just a headline in the memory
00:30:44and he believes the client says they attached to it in create a pleasant experience with these so let's let's pause for a moment and wait about ten minutes %HESITATION usually before you go back in and dig at that memory and I'll explain that in a minute and I
00:30:59usually use imagery let's just get in it you know some image of wet which desire to do a safe place imagery or you could do you know I'm wet spring to mind an event that happened later it was a positive event because we the story didn't end where
00:31:16there's kids believe you in the fifth grade you know you went on the some other things so let's for ma'am and get you in touch with is positive or source of all things and leave them in a and and imagery experience for about ten minutes dot com the
00:31:32nervous system and what the reconsolidation research found is that if you wait about ten minutes the memory becomes a Malibu and you can update it with new information and then you go back and say now I want you to read tell that story and that %HESITATION in my
00:31:48recon process you observationally describe the memories you don't relate it but you describe what happened and now insert this new infirm nation that that you just we just got in touch with you know needed the imagery exercise like finish the story now where you you know I'm finished
00:32:06college you got a boyfriend later that was nice to you you know or just anytime somebody was nice to you in a social situation or people you know who said they were glad to be your friend and we got the something that's going to contrast that earlier beliefs
00:32:20and it has to be an experience so it has to be you can't just be a five I rational thought you have to help the client find an experienced the invalidates fact earlier learning and that's what does the end part neutralize the negative meanings which is the last
00:32:37step at the recon process so the rest of the but is all these creative ways you can do that say you can give me all kinds of ways you can create experiences in your sessions that neutralize those meanings say you update those old patterns and it works really
00:32:54well my clients live at your client old really enjoy it because it's not a painful process it's really usually quite in game aging and and can be fun even thank you so much for sharing that with us corny I look past my lover frame work so I've been
00:33:11taking copious notes as of course and in the book which will be talking about in the end you're going to a lot more detail in breaking this down so the book is a place to go and get the full outline but that really appreciate the summary there now
00:33:25this is to the idea of experience to change because a big message from your book is that we need to activate experience so I will experience is to bring about change and I used play in humor and all sorts of things of mine from as well can decide
00:33:40obviously we don't have a lot of time this week just give us a flavor of some of the different things you do to activate experience would change well am I tied to the image juries I give you different ideas for ways to use imagery imagery is one of
00:33:55the easiest things to do I eat and then the other thing that I love you used is actually music and you can create playlists with your clients are get the new creative play less so I talk about how you can you know have a client take about five
00:34:11or six songs in what you want is to have them pick a song or two that represents how they're currently feeling bad a situation and then take some additional songs that gradually made them to how they wanna be feeling so that's the other thing that you're going to
00:34:27see is is moving had it gradually made them from where they're at to which desired I love that I was in music engages yeah it works so well I just my clients love that went in and and they'll bring the play list yeah of course you talk about
00:34:43it in the session you might find some songs you know if you have internet and you can look some map in that they'll bring often work on at home and I'll bring it back in they usually say it's it's one of the best experiences that I've had in
00:34:57processing it with you when their sessions is really really meaningful and it's it's also a way to strengthen the therapeutic alliance that's the delay actually reminds me of it training with Stan tech can and he asked couples is a couples therapist apples you know what was the the
00:35:14first song with you know that this song they chose another and he plays in the session often people will start crying this very well yes that's right it's a very evocative in you can use movements he says sometimes when a client you know isn't feeling very empowered or
00:35:34when we're doing a survey of Nash there's I don't know if you've seen this research Clinton that %HESITATION talks about power postures they just holding your body and it's not like a rigid upright position but maybe sitting a little straighter bad and in our relaxed open posture or
00:35:53even doing the victory pet is where you've got you know your two arms of the V. if I have your hat if you just hold those postures for two minutes it actually increases your testosterone in decreases your cortisol and there's some experiments by Amy Cuddy and some colleagues
00:36:13and I think there's a Ted talk on it to just two in that stuff with your your client so you could even say Hey let's tell that story again but this time try and try sitting like this or hold your arms up in a victory pay as you
00:36:26say that you know what you want to say to your partner and you know just see how that feels in you that's another way to create an experience that kind of tricks the emotional brain and invoking the desired state and when the client has that experience they're like
00:36:43well because part is they don't leave they can feel differently so using music in the in the jury in may have meant it means simple and that's what I try to get people really simple things you can we then what you're already doing can really make a chef
00:36:59for people and you know in in in live in your sessions residents like you have a great do you and your clients have a great time in your therapy sessions we did I didn't think there be giving you know as I used to be a lot more serious
00:37:17except I started out working with kids and so this I realize some of the stuff that I did with kids actually worked really well in adults too when I finally got the confidence to try it out and so did I know you talk about humor in the book
00:37:32and I often think you know if you can be like if you can catch a class to laugh will be laughing the clients it's a great sign the thirties alliances really strong has that been your experience as well you are yeah yeah it can and it can strengthen
00:37:45it like %HESITATION the other thing I'll tell you with clients that are hard to connect with using humor can be the way in especially if you've got the kind that doesn't want to be there say to connect with kids you know I used to have to be playful
00:37:59and let's play a game more %HESITATION I used to bribe the inner city kids that worked within them in New Orleans in the United States I would say listen it if you'll just tell me one thing about how you're feeling today then I'll do an awkward white girl
00:38:15dance for you there's something like that and and the yeah I was letting them they're like I'm willing to be vulnerable if you if you're willing to be vulnerable and it helped connect us honor on a deep level so you know sometimes you have to be clay fall
00:38:33to get around that guarded stance with your clients fantastic now of course the book %HESITATION you with been referring to throughout this episode is called the therapeutic hot strategies for getting clients and stuck by Courtney I'm stronger Courtney your book is done phenomenally well I mean just a
00:38:54mazing rescues and say it back %HESITATION you must be really pleased with that when things have gone with the book %HESITATION I am I'm just so you know I'm I'm just so honored in %HESITATION it was a pleasure to ride it's a full really and yeah I really
00:39:11feel lucky that that out was invited to write the back in and I love hearing from other therapists and getting there I guess are saying %HESITATION I do something similar my session because I really want to bring us all together because you know not every thing's gonna work
00:39:27for every client save my intention is just to start this conversation really this is not the end it's it's I really want to start and inspiring therapist to to share with each other you know here's what I had to do that tell me this client for it or
00:39:43hear something I did that works and and them again but we're finding is that merry science validate some of these things that we intuitively instinctively never work in our sessions we just didn't know how to to necessarily articulate it in one two F. %HESITATION managed care type of
00:40:03CBT goal that we're still dealing C. B. T. we're just using an experience to change negative patterns and beliefs not just reserving yeah that's right what I love about your book is just it is a practical you've got these frameworks and %HESITATION for me as I always love
00:40:20the book where it just I feel I can read and study plummeting stuff straight away where is the best place for our listeners to go to find your book Courtney well in Australia but topia %HESITATION fish pond would probably end and you may know others but those are
00:40:36the two I'm familiar with that okay grain of course is available on Amazon dot com %HESITATION we can get a kindle kindle in hard cover is that right yeah kindle and iPad and I bet sorry yeah testing I can't and %HESITATION if people want to find out about
00:40:54you Courtney wish a takeover they want to connect with you at the website that I've got for their precious Courtney Armstrong dot net and that's %HESITATION will it has some free resources and articles and %HESITATION invite people to share comments and stories so we can you know help
00:41:12each other out wonderful but I this is our appreciate what you're doing to to advance our profession and for the resident listing on the run today will put all the links NASA nights so you can pop by the sea I purchased the book which I highly recommend or
00:41:27if you want to check out the free world resources on Courtney's site site again it was a pleasure to speak with you today Cordy and I hope we can speak again sometime soon how me to Clinton I love what you're doing for our profession chair and I'm really
00:41:41grateful for all the resources that you give us thank you so much bye for now I thanks for listening to the Australian counseling podcast your a strong and cancel their best we invite you to join our online community where you get step by step trying this coaching by
00:42:00Clinton ballet networking with your peers and a listing on our high ranking counseling directory on death more about the benefits of membership study counseling dot com dot a you slash join

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