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ABOUT THIS EPISODE

You negotiate your salary only a handful of times in your life. Make it count!
English
United States
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TRANSCRIPT

00:00:08hello and welcome to episode nine of the ninety nine you podcast I am the managing editor of ninety nine Sean Blendon %HESITATION will because a quick intro today because I wanna hop right into it today I'm talking with Jim Hopkinson he is the founder of salary tutor dot
00:00:23com any salary negotiation expert and we talk about all the ways you can use %HESITATION negotiation to increase your salary to get a raise to get better freelance rates so I'm gonna turn over right now to my conversation with Jim Hopkinson I'm here with Mister Jim Hopkinson who
00:00:40is the founder of salary tutor dot com salary negotiation expert he's also advised to several of our conference attendees at our public school in two thousand thirteen and our converts in two thousand fourteen so the man as we talk about when it comes to negotiation Jim how are
00:00:55you Sir I'm doing great how are you shocked I am awesome in and I'm I am very excited to talk about something very near and dear to my heart and very important because %HESITATION negotiating your salary and today we're gonna cover %HESITATION if it's a new job if
00:01:09you ask for a raise and also if you're a freelancer negotiating rates having some negotiation skill in your back pocket is super important %HESITATION and imagine that's why you got into this this business of of researching salary negotiation absolutely it's such a it's it's such a skill that
00:01:25people haven't been taught you know your parents don't teach you how to do it you don't learn in school most of the time on but if you learn the proper skills you can have a pay off big time and one thing I like about that to echo you
00:01:38just said that salary negotiation you do a few hours of work like ten hours of work maybe and can just have total outside the impact on your salary verses you people tell you to cut back on you know I don't know don't pack a lunch every day and
00:01:52that's a save money but you know this the ignore this massive kind of wind sitting in front of you always say how I I practiced each straight hours for three minutes our conversation once but I watch the hours of football Sundays so you know I don't get paid
00:02:06ten thousand dollars extra for doing that but if people who practice they can make thousands of dollars so just to bring her out I you you before we started recording your talk about a story of any more successful students and I think you should tell tell us what
00:02:20happened and then we can kind of break down how she made it through our love starting with the story so this was a client that ended up getting a seventy thousand dollar increase over her shop so here's there was a set up she she had her arm she
00:02:33was from overseas she got her undergrad she came to the west you got her master's degree in like an engineering field and she took a risk you want to start up and the after sixty thousand to start in less than a year later they bumped her thirty three
00:02:45percent to eighty thousand dollars so first of all that's not very common right to to get a thirty three percent rate she's doing great so the in the first year she was really excited soap you know by the end of that year you know she had a review
00:02:58but clearly she's like art I just got a twenty thousand dollar race and then the end of your too you know she sat down for her review which is making real progress in like well he just got that big review last year in that big bump in the
00:03:09end of your three like well the recession yada yada and she's like showing them you know she's contributing hundreds of thousands of dollars to the bottom line and finally again at the end of four years out an increase at all once again like we don't have the money
00:03:23we're sorry so after four years without any kind of increases like I've got to do something about this so she went into research mode and the first thing she did she said she read up to forty different books on negotiation or not it she took forty different people
00:03:38out to coffee and so you know it's the networking it's getting that end it again is back to that like doing that work it sounds like a lot but I do find a pretty strong correlation between the people that put in the time and the amount of money
00:03:50they get back so she gets a lead for this new job and the first key that she knew is that she realized that her salary was now after four years later in maybe you know a hundred and twenty two hundred fifty range and she knew the key thing
00:04:04was that you know that though just by doing her research so going to sites like sour dot com or pay scale talking to people in the market %HESITATION looking at industry guides going to job fairs talking to those forty people take them out to coffee no saying phrases
00:04:19like you know I've done my research that you know this that I'm worth well over six figure now it is that is that what you would see in having colleagues say absolutely we hired someone last week for a hundred and thirty doing that same job so she had
00:04:31a really good feeling and she sing eighty right yeah she knows she knows she has more to go okay so that was the first crucial thing is she knew that if she went into this interview and they said what are you making now and she said eighty thousand
00:04:44either they'd say all will just offered ninety five and should be happy or they'll think she wasn't qualified enough so that's the one thing she said she got from my book by saying I'm one of the key recommendations phrase you could use is when they ask yourself how
00:04:58much you making now she said all I'm sorry but my current employment contract doesn't allow me to reveal that information what kind of range did you have in mind so she didn't tell her past salary so she went back and forth and she was asked to give you
00:05:12what you want for salary and so what she did in this case was anchor so she picked a high number she knew the median was about one twenty five so she threw out a hundred and forty two hundred and fifty right off the bat he doesn't know where
00:05:24there's no way we can hit one forty on that's that's way too high so he thinks that I can explain anchoring so anchoring is that there's two ways you can kind of go about negotiation a lot of what I recommend usually is get them to say the number
00:05:37first however in other situations where the numbers are a little bit more vague anchoring is you throw out a high number first and then also to quit negotiations will be kind of tag to that anger and drop from saying they're slightly lower slightly higher so he came out
00:05:52and said something about a hundred then it would have been you know the top range then again she's made in one ten but she does at one forty the top range could be one sixty or you can even go down to one twenty that still kind of a
00:06:04win for her right if she thought it was probably worth one twenty five to one fifty yeah she says one twenty five to go down from there she says one forty they'll go down from there and the way she didn't know she was being ridiculous because she looked
00:06:14up anyone can hack into a job interview and go get me a quarter million dollars Sir right okay in so when the when they balked at that she didn't you know panic she didn't %HESITATION you know say you know all I can take a hundred though she just
00:06:29said well you know I kind of don't want to research on that I feel that's my value and she was quiet and you just you silence just like well I'm really interested in this position %HESITATION so you know if if anything you know comes about I I'd love
00:06:40to talk more with you and she left two hours later surprisingly her phone rings and it's HR in Moroccans Lee %HESITATION they offered her a hundred and thirty K. base and a ten percent bonus so a thirteen thousand dollar bonus so one forty three so they came in
00:06:56exactly %HESITATION with that so that would mean a sixty three K. increase over her eighty thousand and then she also calculated that she had a four one Katie on the new company had a four one K. her last start up didn't so that was worth another seven thousand
00:07:11so essentially a seventy thousand dollar raise to one fifty so she was totally excited %HESITATION but here's the twist she goes back to our old company and now has a meeting with the VP say she's given our notice two weeks notice %HESITATION and they freak out and now
00:07:25they realize we can't lose you your sales first we have the engineering to the what would it take to replace you and they offer twenty thousand dollars on top of their offer so is there one forty three one sixty three and you know what she turned it down
00:07:41she kind of ginseng served their face but basically saying you had your chance I tried for four years to ask for a raise %HESITATION didn't like the kind of what the president would set and she decided that she liked the new company she went there out at the
00:07:55awesome story out one one thing I it came to mind as I think it is much easy here %HESITATION for and someone in engineering or the stem or Sam fields or even a developer think there may be a little more demand especially for start ups right then maybe
00:08:11I think top flight design town is as well but there's also %HESITATION like I'm a I'm a writer editor right like not quite in demand for good writers can get paid so I don't know if I would get away with what you just did so I'm curious do
00:08:24you think it's exclusive to the field on I mean absolutely so it no matter how good I teach you how how well it you got to go see it as a writer you're never gonna get paid like a hedge fund manager right so the goal for that always
00:08:36knowing your range in at least getting the top end of that range yet where you might not get you know a writer might not get a hundred fifty thousand if the ranges you know sixty to eighty you know when I try to get too close to eighty to
00:08:48just to get maximizer values the current okay well that I I I think I would like to learn how to do it she'd %HESITATION so I think what we should do is walk through %HESITATION if people you're listening I'm in I'm in this negotiation thing I want to
00:09:03learn how am I think where we were to walk your right now to kind of the mindset and preppy should do before and then when you're in the room what makes the most sense so okay I'm listening I'm in I want to go stay with my first at
00:09:15all right so the first step is definitely getting in that right mindset that you can negotiate so this is an opportunity that doesn't come along that often and again it's a skill that isn't taught often so that if you can learn this one skill not only can you
00:09:28make thousands of dollars immediately but it's gonna pay off of your career in terms of increased net worth and then also you can use it in a lot of different things I've heard people he said like I got a fight with my girlfriend last night but I use
00:09:41your negotiation technique or not I thought it a you know it's gonna buy like a new boots or something like that and I used the silence technique or talking to and the like sorry so that's our fault line those are on sale and then you like him so
00:09:55those are on sale ha are we going to put up front the manager coupon and get twenty percent off you know so these little technique self on in and so I was like going back to the stats right if you look at a lot of the %HESITATION surveys
00:10:10that you know salary dot com and other sites have done companies expect you to negotiate it's it's always like a like a used car analogy I say if you walked in and you wanted %HESITATION nineteen ninety nine Toyota Tercel with a hundred thousand miles and the guy comes
00:10:24out and he's like it's ten thousand dollars you don't say I'll take it no like you know you should research you counter offer they expect you to counter offer so you say well I start on Craigslist for seventy five hundred well how about nine thousand about eight thousand
00:10:36and you have that back and forth it's almost at all times on the company's not going to give their highest and best offer first they leave that will go from there so if you just accept the first offer you're leaving money on the table so it's it's getting
00:10:49in that mindset mentally and what's also interesting is physically Amy Cuddy has a Ted talk on power posing and she's you know looked into studies where just like for five minutes before you to be like making like the Wonder Woman or the Superman yelling like putting your hands
00:11:06on your hips into liking your chest out X. no putting like your hands behind your head you don't do it in the interview but like just making space and feeling powerful they've shown %HESITATION in in tests gives you a you know and you become more horrible and more
00:11:20likable and more likely to get a higher res right so what would you do that you'll take five seven five minutes an insight yourself up so get rid me of mentally that you can do this and then physically you know power pose arm so the next step is
00:11:32is doing that homework finding out what your worth and I recommend consulting multiple sources both online and in person so lot of people will just do you know the five or ten minutes so I looked on glassdoor it's great but I have kind of a five step thing
00:11:45that I have on my site where there are %HESITATION salary sites that you can look at and I actually of ten or fifteen you could look at theirs industry guides so if your creativity for accountants on you know the accounting industry puts out what is the salary range
00:11:59for this %HESITATION you can talk to you can go to your internal network talk to you know friends through social media through linkedin and that external network sometimes it's easier to almost talk to people you don't know yeah so let's say you're a writer and you go to
00:12:13I mean I could for writers and you meet someone that night you could say something like Hey I'm actually in the job market all you you write for this magazine to mind if I ask no in mind I never like to tell people to ask them what they
00:12:26make I I prefer to say you've done your research first and then get it approve so you would say something like oh you write for you know X. Y. Z. magazine %HESITATION in my experience a magazine of the outsides pays about a dollar a word is is is
00:12:40that what you would think and they might come back and say yeah that sounds about right where they might say something like I don't know it's it's the industry's changes like fifty cents a word now or maybe it's like no no I actually we we hired someone last
00:12:52week that was paying a hundred dollar fifty words so if you're asking of people that you start to get this information back into this knowledge is power so if you do just a little bit of research and you go in for that interview and your social media marketing
00:13:06manager and they say %HESITATION you know you know what we're we can offer you sixty thousand is that good or that bad well I spent two minutes looking at salary dot com I guess so but if you've talked to mentors if you got a job fairs if you
00:13:19look online you keep looking job sites that do post their salary I think that the stat was about eleven percent of jobs online do post a salary so if you look at you know a hundred social media positions you'll see ten or eleven salaries posted so my calling
00:13:34all of this information together if you know that based on all this information the jobs paying seventy to eighty five you gonna know that sixty offers kind of a little and it's I think it's also important to mention that the location of the job right search me manager
00:13:48in Tulsa Oklahoma verses in San Francisco or something probably is far different yeah right so keep that in mind as you you research and then one of things I suggest this is great for you know you probably a lot of creators and designers listening is to use some
00:14:03of light off for a report that you can print out on this I went so far as to how to design and create a custom chart where you can gather all this information together in this document that you even bring into the interview and it's you know on
00:14:16I have to print it out on you know hard stock paper and it really shows the effort when they say well we we don't we did you get that information and you're able to pull out this document say here's all the research I've done here that neo sites
00:14:29I've consulted in this is the range that I found %HESITATION you know so also look at what a good designer I am yeah exactly right if your designer due to do things that show your design shops yeah %HESITATION okay so is there anything in the else in the
00:14:42room a prep you would do before asking for the meeting if you're if you're asked so there's there's three forms of education at as you said there's the new job which is okay before you walk into the interview %HESITATION the race before you accept me of their boss
00:14:55and there's the freelance angle before you negotiate with the client to anything else you do before then arm let's jump into those because the tactics will change a little bit cast on that so when you go in for a new job it's a little bit of a cat
00:15:06and mouse game they know what they want to pay and you kind of know what you make on it so there's a lot of flexibility in the numbers and that's when you can really make a lot of money so in general I would say the key is getting
00:15:19them to name the number first because it becomes a little bit of a Goldilocks game if you think it pays seventy five and you get to high then they're like well that they want to much money if you get too low in the money on the table so
00:15:31one of the key phrases I use is I call it the right back aftermath it so if they say on you know well Shauna it's been a great interview everyone like to hear what we thinking in terms of salary and the way I responded to say something like
00:15:45well you know I've had time to do a lot of research and what I found is a really varied depending on the person on the skills the type of company and I'm just curious what kind of range did you have in mind so it's throwing it back at
00:15:57them and then they could say something like well we were thinking of something in the seventy five to eighty five range and then this is a great tip from Jack Chapman and %HESITATION he says you it's a lot of people talk about in terms of silence so what
00:16:12you would do is rip the top number and they sent sensing something like our icy and then be silent for like five or ten seconds myself if I if I said the number you the consumer paired off you between seventy eighty thousand eighty thousand I just wanna feel
00:16:30it's right it's right yeah listeners like that you know a podcast just well whatever and so there's an immediate need to fill that silence so that the if you like eighty thousand well but we we we might be able to get up to ninety minutes anybody coming and
00:16:45if you're really cocky you do it again thousand but they they look to rush that silence and almost always it's a good thing he's even go back to some FBI hostage negotiation techniques that %HESITATION I cover my courses and things like that where %HESITATION using silence gets people
00:17:03to reveal information yeah I was actually told in journalism school in interviewing people you should ask the question and stop incident and they'll fill it for you and it's really difficult if you really that's the thing that I practiced and I talk to people and I do and
00:17:16speaking in like I turn the person next to you and try it it just so awkward but that's why it works I'd say let's let's say I do the right back at you method they still kind of you know %HESITATION go around and in some way maybe they
00:17:31say well we're not prepared to offer you without really knowing your base salary or predisposition right you can go around again I like doing one round keeping it vague and so that could be the time to bring up that chart say well well let me take me show
00:17:45you some of the research I've done and then you can kind of sketch over and there's some other body language things they're few sit kind of diagonal the person versus right across you tend to be seen as less confrontational and then it becomes not me verses you are
00:17:58I want this would offer this it's let's take a look at the industry data and you know here's what I found and I was hoping for something no towards this part of the range it would that be possible says if you're working together to solve a puzzle Ackley
00:18:12in anything %HESITATION so is is there anything is there any other robotic and throw up in your way before that point the standing they could say or do you know they could say would you prefer you should be impaired obviously for them to not in the number to
00:18:27ask you for the number right and you should give to be prepared to give them the Rangers or anything else you prepare for yeah there there's a lot of %HESITATION in that's really helps out with the with role playing and practicing at the end and so I work
00:18:39with clients one on one and the like you will talk for forty five minutes like we got a gym I got my notes like our this role play go into like I was looking for eighty thousand it's like if you really have to go through it so that's
00:18:52what I practice as you say this okay what happens if they come back strong what happens if they come back this and having these things in your back pocket %HESITATION so one kind of cute way of thinking is not only this but that so when you get to
00:19:05the end of the interview the people you're going against this competitive market I'm gonna be they all went to a good school they on decent grades they all have a couple years experience although whatever you're doing when it whatever is it doing what is that one thing that
00:19:19makes you stand out that does it better so as an example I once had a client eleven thousand dollar increase with one email so she was a museum curator I think she's offered you know not a tiny was like forty three thousand and she will actually get to
00:19:33some of our questions and she replied and said because I'll be coming into this not only with museum management and curation experience but with the unique ability to build a brand new program I was hoping for something in this range they replied they offered her eleven thousand dollars
00:19:49so we literally spent one hour running email and she got almost an extra thousand dollars a month it was spike because a lot of other candidates were close but because she had that specific %HESITATION building the program from the last job and that's what they're hoping to do
00:20:03and part of that is like listening you know to what their needs are and then fill in the city so they could have said Hey in Israel you might end up starting a whole new chapter in music I could do that I could use that later yeah okay
00:20:14%HESITATION Corso is there what anything else you need to the new negotiation %HESITATION discounter offers is there there's a counter offers is having is like a day do I not call them after days here's my favorite tips is first of all just in it seem to be getting
00:20:29worse it always takes longer than you think its speed I've had people for like three months their neck or will be back to you next week and so so you interview on you know it Tuesday morning and they say you walking out to the elevator and they say
00:20:42oh %HESITATION so you never hear from us later this week the best way to end it is to say that sounds great if I don't hear from you by Friday would be okay to follow up so that's how I tell people that you and every single instance Mari
00:20:55I set the expectations it sets expectation because if you don't now you're all excited on Wednesday or excited Thursday then you're checking your email and then it's Friday and then you get in your head you know like well maybe I blew the interview should I should I write
00:21:06them now I don't be too pushy but the best way to Monday but then over the weekend you're in your and it's like by setting a precedent your you have already received permission to email them on that Friday so and then you would get the email back and
00:21:19what happens if it's lower if it's lower on a lot of times people ask me that what if I gave that now so what if I messed up and I gave my number early and they said what do your thinking we are unhappy with the offer yeah let's
00:21:32so let's say the early you gave your number and you didn't differ in these in you so I'm making fifty and then you mean that time that I knew I should've made sixty or sixty five and they end up offering fifty on you can kinda use what you've
00:21:45gone through the interview as kind of a leverage point to to say why you want more in almost kind of blowing it off a little bit like on I realize I said fifty thousand you know when we first met but you know at that time I I didn't
00:21:58hadn't had a chance to talk to everyone in realized kind of the scope of what this job entail now that I've had a chance to do some research to really get a full understanding of the job %HESITATION I feel that a salary between fifty five and sixty five
00:22:12would be more appropriate no it isn't some of those words I would tweak a little bit but a simple phrase if this all sounds complicated is do you have any flexibility with that number yeah so even if it's just you know you're right out of school and we're
00:22:25gonna start you for your first job or so excited it's thirty thousand dollars in you say thank you so much for that offer just yours is there any flexibility in that number %HESITATION and a lot of times just that one phrase will get you another couple thousand dollars
00:22:39yet another a new technique I learned of some kind that is the number or day when you need the number is you can just say well you know you know your budget better than I do correct I I don't I don't know I don't know how much money
00:22:50you have so one team the year range right exacerbate I think there's there's lots of different ways of attacking the same problem but true that thing that's the insurers do not name the number first if you can avoid right in and it's also one thing to do it
00:23:02and I guess is a safe way to getting a raise is you should know your base what you're getting as an increase on what the value is on the market not what you're currently making money given example so I was talking with his lawyer she was a public
00:23:17defender she was making on fifty thousand dollars and she's like Jenn I got this new offer a twenty thousand dollar increase to become a private defender and I'm like that's great that's awesome and then I said sure you gonna counter offer and she lets me she's like are
00:23:32you crazy did you listen I'm getting a twenty thousand dollar increase and I said yeah but that's from two different jobs and I was going to change your mind so I ended up doing some research on my own because I was curious and it turned out according to
00:23:45the no I feel as you know academy of lawyers international something the average starting salary of %HESITATION a public defender was in the fifties like she said but for a private lawyer it was eighty thousand so she could have gotten a twenty thousand dollar raise and still a
00:24:02bit ten thousand dollars under and what's worse is it said it all for for large companies or in big cities hello like New York City it can be as high as a hundred and sixty thousand so who knows how much money she left on the table and that's
00:24:16another example of why should negotiate early because you can't anchor your own value lower than you would normally and that can that can kind of if she if you had not told her that some maybe didn't end up telling you this but like that she's always gonna be
00:24:30sellable like even when she gets promotions and raises she's gonna feel great but she never quite really realized that she could have had much more just a little bit of research exactly okay and it's like you're a lawyer aren't you supposed to be persuasive and do research about
00:24:42your job your picture lawyer negotiations being like people flipping tables inside section okay so I think this raises to a raise you know I'm I I how do I set up the meeting with my boss once I figure out I so I like to do that earlier than
00:24:58you're supposed to so in other words let's say you get I've seen this happen where it's the end of the year and you like okay it's you know December fifteenth I'm gonna go in and ask for a raise the end of the year the year and you find
00:25:09out that like all we just close the budgets of the end of November like you know like wait another six months war I've had it happen where you know you're the six month review is July first and so you're looking and you want to and you prepare all
00:25:22this stuff for what you've done you go in there and they say oh we've already you know giving your race you know it'll be next chat so I like to kind of touch base on month or two ahead of time to get in there had been years since
00:25:33we put out the message like I know my value my job is important to me and I know my reviews coming up you know what what what what your take the temperature at the time and so the difference between a new job in a raise is when you're
00:25:48going to raise your current job your player already knows what you're making so it's less about kind of the cat and mouse in the silence and more about proving your worth and so one way to do that for creatives is %HESITATION number one and if people can start
00:26:01doing this today keep track of your accomplishments so you don't need to you know update your resume every month but as you're working along throughout the year if you launch a new product in it and it does really well or you know watching you website in it you
00:26:15feature all time page views you know take no stock of all these little notes in like a word doc online or something so that when you're six months eight months in and you're trying to put together what how can I prove my point you have all these books
00:26:27she big well it's also this is what I did since I got my last offer some better right I've launch three products I lead a team this time I'm worth more in the market place now right and if you can obviously find out in the previous review what
00:26:41the goals are for the year and then kind of show okay so what you said you want me to do this this and this in six months here on proving that I did those things I think it's important you get a job or you do or you get
00:26:52in writing as much as possible what are my goals so you sit down to negotiate a K. I smash these goals right so for you to tell me I don't deserve a raise kind of disingenuous but without the gold is a little harder absolutely yeah in in one
00:27:04way I I like doing that is using your portfolio so everything's gone digital art you know our phones are digital or music or movies these kids in there I think kids in their iPhones and so I I mean at the time I did in the past had paper
00:27:18portfolios in just like you know print outs of web pages and %HESITATION you know you can kinda leveraging associate yourself with bigger events so let's say you know you're working technically at ninety nine you but you're part of adobe in let's say adobe launches this new product and
00:27:35you have to shoot conference you can say well while I ran all the speakers for the ninety nine you in adobe conference and you have these glorious you know high res photos of thousands of people at that event it's like what did you invite although some people just
00:27:48know but you're so she did with this big event and when you're going to raise your telling the stories you know here's where I started %HESITATION here's all the things that I've done in most importantly here the his the impact on the bottom line how did you make
00:28:01the company money how did you save the company money %HESITATION how did you stand out new did you launch a product on are those ten thousand people that came to a conference on the repeat users can you put a number on that you know if if one in
00:28:13ten of those people bought the news product and that product is ninety nine dollars you know focus on that bottom line but if it's indirect you know if I'm a designer and Hey I designed that packaging to one of our most successful product do you think that's disingenuous
00:28:27to say I helped raise sales north as long as you're not taking credit for something you didn't do but if it's you know Hey I helped on this project you know without your help it wouldn't have looked as good right and so %HESITATION it's having all these bullet
00:28:41points to kinda prove what you've done okay say you have all this all lined up you have how you've improved you sit down how does this differ from the new negotiations so a lot of it's the same where you can kinda lay that out you can show the
00:28:53research you've done you can show that you know people at the same point in your industry are doing you know the same things %HESITATION I mean we can get into if you have a competing offer %HESITATION these different levels of that even just it's it's near the highest
00:29:08leverage of course would be if you have another offer in hand and you're going back and saying Hey they offer me twenty thousand dollars more but I'd like to state that gets a little bit tricky but even if you just asking god verbal communication from someone so let's
00:29:22say you work at you know Conde Nast publishing and you have a friend that works offer Hearst publishing and you ask them how much would a senior social media marketing manager earn here and they said we just hired someone last week that has your skills for eighty thousand
00:29:38you could say I know you know I've talked to people in the industry and I know that this job is paying eighty thousand so it you know just making it up you actually have some hard data yeah I think it's important it's not that I deserve exam great
00:29:51you're saying the industry I've I learned that it's eighty thousand is kind of the market I'm getting paid seventy now but look at all the awesome things I did last year here has kind of keeping evidence upon evidence on why you can you make a really great point
00:30:03on a lot of people go in emotionally right or they'll bring their personal life so especially around here had kids I just had kids on a mortgage or you know I'm living at home with my parents in Long Island and I need to move into the city to
00:30:16people like they don't care everyone wants to move to New York City right %HESITATION what matters to them is how are you bringing your skills to the business yeah they can't they can't hedge for your life events unfold I wish I wish they would write they don't %HESITATION
00:30:30so what do you do what do you do any reaction is like I'm sorry again like I understate recognize your accomplishments but I just we just don't have the money I would have to like someone off to give you more money were really stretch them here what is
00:30:41there other things to negotiate absolutely what do you say like give me three months and let's talk about it would you yeah multiple ways you can handle that SO one is is that attitude they come back with if they're just like no you really not doing that well
00:30:55or %HESITATION no but you're not ready yet then you're like well you know either eight are they just kind of being jerks about it and maybe start looking or be maybe it's a wake up call maybe you didn't do as well as you thought maybe your skills haven't
00:31:08been up to speed and it's a good time to look but if they are like that and like I would love to keep you in O. up my hands are so tied the budgets of this if they seem like they are acting in good faith and that's kind
00:31:20of another way so yes you can say well how about if we were you know talking in six months what do I need to do in six months and this happens as well if you're going for promotion not quite ready for director yet well you know what steps
00:31:34would I need to be able to recognize as the director level and then you set yourself up like we talked about if you can hit those you can kind of prove it arm and then the other one I guess it is perks so where is their budget that
00:31:47maybe doesn't hit you know salary because on payroll is one of the largest %HESITATION expenses for any company so this I always start with asking people what's important to you because it depends on the time of your life so I have a friend to help negotiate and she
00:32:03lived in kind of central New Jersey there was a job internal can York City tryst communications to kids she's commuting back and forth to the city it was really a drain she gets your kids and a job opened %HESITATION right near her house in central Jersey and she's
00:32:16like this is the biggest company here and these don't come up that often and she almost would have taken anything you know even if it's the same money you know fortunately I got to help her and she end up getting more end where she stayed sort of her
00:32:30on getting the highest selling wasn't the most important it was being time family on the flip side when she laughed her kind of on the manage under her she was younger and she had actually acted in her role when that one was off on maternity leave so for
00:32:46her at that time it also wasn't as much about the money was getting a new titles younger she realized if I can jump from associate to a manager level then that will kind of springboard my career to show that I'm already manager age twenty three and she had
00:33:01a great argument because they were like oh maybe we might look for someone that could come run out before which is like I've done the job in which she was out of a turnip I did the job who you gonna find that has done the job I'm the
00:33:13only person uniquely qualified for that you can negotiate you also you don't sell isn't the only thing you negotiate you can use a time off you can flex time you shape working from home and what is your what else could someone do on one idea is negotiating you
00:33:27know for conferences so conference is a great because oftentimes you you're gonna be networking with people you're gonna learn new skills you're going to you know be progressive in your industry and Hey if it's a conference in Los Angeles in the middle of winter and you live in
00:33:42Minnesota and it's minus ten that's a pretty good perk to you know break up your winter little side making a side door of a cation %HESITATION okay I I I think that covers a lot of recent areas so last thing we talk about is your free lancer right
00:33:55you you kind of these clients are not quite your employer but they are you you can walk away they can also find someone else I think the dynamic way different %HESITATION so how would I present a freelancer %HESITATION amino negotiation for project how to make sure I get
00:34:07it's it's really important freelancers because you know if your designer a graphic artist like you might be doing this all the time so is the better you can get %HESITATION the you know the more money you gonna make every time you do it so a lot of people
00:34:19ask me how much I charge they want an exact you tell me exactly how much I should charge and I always say sometimes it's less about an exact number in more about having a structure in place to be able to approach each project so I made up of
00:34:32a structure called my rate and so each of the letters stand for something so Emma's for mindset and so kind of what we talked about before that you know look and act like a pro who is you know charge what you're worth and sometimes you just like who's
00:34:45better than me to do this job like sometimes like I know I don't know if I'm qualified and if you just look internally like you know what I am the qualified for this so having that right mindset also to point out that one of our most popular articles
00:34:56on any of all time the headline is nobody knows what the hell they're doing because nobody knows what the hell they're doing you know just as much about what you're doing is anyone else in your industry so I can definitely on the why is for yes or no
00:35:07so just even at the most government level do you wanted this project action now and it's kind of the most dangerous right if if you take on a project that's not with what you like to do and it's outside kind of doesn't align with your business van now
00:35:21you're kind of regretting doing it and so as the saying goes if it's not a hell yes it's a note so I want to get in there do when this project or not so you get hired to do the work you've done so right to work you don't
00:35:32do your skin yard where like it's out of sight relief yard points %HESITATION so the **** for research as we talked about you know gathering this research either from the industry through social connections even just blogs %HESITATION you know if if I would ask someone randomly on how
00:35:47much does a graphic designer that does logos in New York make you know even if you're not in the industry you could do enough research with Google and friends in and find out fairly quickly get least get a range on aids and adjusting that were necessary SO three
00:36:01situations one is looking at the client so are the really easy to work with could lead to future work %HESITATION is just someone you like hanging out with it's a big project %HESITATION nexus to work itself is gonna give you more experiences can help build your portfolio is
00:36:16aligned with your business and then lastly is the pay on dissipate really well is it a rush job can you pay up front in cash so the couple different ways you can maybe increase or lower your rate depending on the type of client tea is for techniques and
00:36:31tactics so something to talk about anchoring on finding out what their budget is first one good tip is never given number in the beginning so always have your first meeting be just about the concepts and don't get caught up in you know like I'm exploring what you need
00:36:46right now right you know let me talk about the scope and here's what you want and then you can kind of say well let me go back and you can kind of sit down when you're not in the moment instead of tired of the in the meeting and
00:36:56say I'm gonna go look over this stuff and then I'll be able to get back to you and just kind of sleep on it before you put together a proposal also makes you look you know professional if you can follow up with a really nice detailed proposal and
00:37:07then lastly is just experience in execution so if if you been designing logos for two years and someone's like how much to charge for logo and you've been doing it for twelve years clearly unit with experience you gonna be like okay %HESITATION this can be easy I like
00:37:20this client's gonna take me this many hours I've done this a hundred times before bowing his here's your right arm and then a look one thing a lot of people ask are you know should I charge hourly should I charge on a project basement %HESITATION basis and it
00:37:35kind of depends as there's pros and cons one simple thing that I had heard once was charge hourly if it's kind of a long or on certain project that has a lot of changes in the objectives aren't that clear verses %HESITATION charging on a project basis if it's
00:37:49something that's well defined if %HESITATION in the cloudy with a client that really likes the predictability of work with them for so that's kind of some high level ways you can look at it to its example of predictability would allow judge that because I think the hourly flat
00:38:02rate when the biggest things I hear from talking to yeah arm I knew someone that had a unique situation where with especially new clients she would always start hourly and you can find is really simple test so she would test them first and she's putting something proposed to
00:38:17gather and say okay so by the end of the week what I need is hi res version of your logo you top five this and a copy for this web page and if they have someone they forwarded the Senate to you is there on time then you like
00:38:29okay this person has run out of it they were on top of it okay maybe then you're ready to say okay this project is going well gonna try tax but if they like all we don't have the logo it's not a high red is its this need to
00:38:41kind of keep an hour early so that you know even if it takes them longer at least you're getting paid for every hour you work awesome is there any other thing people should keep in mind freelance I mean I I can't we should mention that he's going to
00:38:53mention that %HESITATION we have a ton of articles beneficiation and use some of which %HESITATION I interviewed Jim taking kind of get to the full gym experience at if you're ninety nine you dot com slash category slash money also put it in the notes for the show and
00:39:06Jim also made it special page full of tons of research is just for the night and you audience if that salary tutor dot com slash ninety nine you podcast imagine that has all that all the reference sheets in the sites you mentioned and so that if you listen
00:39:19listen you know I want to start on this going to that page is probably yeah the way it starts out as I have a free %HESITATION negotiation mind set course it's fun it's simple it's like twenty minutes long I it's funny like improv trained actors in it so
00:39:31it's a really good intro if you're just getting started with this and then %HESITATION it gets on my mailing list where I have kind of those %HESITATION resources where you can find out what you're worth %HESITATION look what that negotiation document looks like and kind of get you
00:39:45started there awesome am Sir is there anything I didn't ask you any education would be I mean I guess to wrap up is always you know even though we talk about money all the time it's not always about the money so at the end step back and look
00:39:59at the big picture and you know getting paid but what your worth is very important and I think everyone should have the skills and not be afraid to negotiate but don't get caught up too much in the bottom line so things like you do have an awesome boss
00:40:13you have a mentor do you like your coworkers is your commute good is is this your dream job is a leading toward your dream job %HESITATION and then all the perks we talked about it's it's one thing to get extra three thousand dollars but if they don't have
00:40:25health care and then you're getting charged five dollars a month for your own healthcare %HESITATION so all of these things from four one K. to flex time take all of that into the big picture on before you make your decision cool with that I will leave it thank
00:40:39you very much for some I am in breaking down and I hope you guys that are going to go all the go shake your salary next month thinks on

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