Full Transcript for Stuart Harper : Optec

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WEBVTT 00:00:00.080 --> 00:00:10.080 Working in London at another reseller, I decided that I can do this myself, and ultimately, with the products I was selling back then, you don't have to sell a lot of that product to pay your bills. 00:00:10.240 --> 00:00:12.800 And it looked really easy, so I thought, well, I'm gonna do this. 00:00:13.039 --> 00:00:15.839 In hindsight, it really was not easy. 00:00:20.160 --> 00:00:24.559 Some businesses start with a plan, a pitch deck, and a room full of investors. 00:00:24.800 --> 00:00:28.320 This one started with a founder who backed himself and just went for it. 00:00:28.480 --> 00:00:32.880 Today on the Tech Sales Network, we're joined by Stuart Harper, CEO of Optech. 00:00:33.200 --> 00:00:37.359 No business degree, no outside investment, just a one-man operation. 00:00:37.600 --> 00:00:43.600 Built entirely from the ground up, and today a team on track to hit 30 people by the end of the year. 00:00:43.759 --> 00:00:54.479 Based in Cardiff, Stuart built OpTech into a business with a big ambition to grow further, and he's about to tell us why he's built his technical team long before he built a sales team. 00:00:54.640 --> 00:00:59.200 A decision that flies in the face of how most of the industry does it and one that's paying off. 00:00:59.439 --> 00:01:03.119 What you'll hear today isn't the polished corporate version of success. 00:01:03.280 --> 00:01:04.400 It's the honest one. 00:01:04.560 --> 00:01:12.400 The bumps, the graft, and the deliberate choice to build a business people actually want to work for, rather than one that just looks good on paper. 00:01:12.640 --> 00:01:16.719 This is the story of Optech and the man who built it his own way. 00:01:17.040 --> 00:01:19.200 Stuart, welcome to the podcast. 00:01:19.439 --> 00:01:19.920 How are you? 00:01:20.159 --> 00:01:20.640 Thank you very much. 00:01:20.719 --> 00:01:21.280 I'm very good. 00:01:21.439 --> 00:01:23.280 A little bit nervous, but I'm happy to be here. 00:01:23.359 --> 00:01:23.760 Oh good. 00:01:24.000 --> 00:01:27.120 Looking forward to uh talking about myself for the next couple of years. 00:01:28.000 --> 00:01:29.359 Take us back to the start. 00:01:29.519 --> 00:01:30.879 Where did where did it all begin? 00:01:31.040 --> 00:01:32.400 What did day one look like? 00:01:32.719 --> 00:01:35.200 Oh it seems like well, it was a long time ago. 00:01:35.280 --> 00:01:37.760 It's 10 years now, so I've been running the company for 10 years. 00:01:37.920 --> 00:01:47.920 Um I was working at a another reseller based in London at the time and felt I could probably do a better job than what I was doing back then. 00:01:48.000 --> 00:01:50.560 I don't think they're on my LinkedIn CV, so it's fine. 00:01:50.799 --> 00:01:53.040 Um you can't find out who that was. 00:01:53.120 --> 00:01:57.840 But I I was gonna ask, but uh I thought, yeah, I could do a better job than this. 00:01:58.079 --> 00:02:00.799 But you know, in hindsight, it was a little bit crazy. 00:02:00.959 --> 00:02:08.159 Um back then I was lucky to have a few friends within the industry which I could rely on to help me from distribution and things like that. 00:02:08.400 --> 00:02:19.919 Working in London at another reseller, decided that I can do do this myself, and ultimately, with the products I was selling back then, you don't have to sell a lot of that product to pay your bills, to pay your mortgage and things like that. 00:02:20.080 --> 00:02:22.719 And it looked really easy, so I thought, well, I'm gonna do this. 00:02:22.960 --> 00:02:25.039 In hindsight, it really was not easy. 00:02:25.280 --> 00:02:30.319 Can't relate to that, can't be most, but it was um it was worth it in the long run, it's worth it. 00:02:30.400 --> 00:02:37.120 So, yeah, started the company, got out of London, had a little office in uh little town called Buckingham, just outside Milton Keynes. 00:02:37.199 --> 00:02:37.840 Yeah, nice. 00:02:38.080 --> 00:02:43.520 Um I just remember haggling for like the cheapest room I could get at the time, just so I wasn't working in my house. 00:02:43.759 --> 00:02:49.919 Yeah, just I just wanted anything and I was like, I'll I'd I'll get I'll get a discount on the room if I can fix the ceiling for you and stuff like that. 00:02:50.000 --> 00:02:53.520 It was that, you know, it was that much I was trying to save that money back then. 00:02:53.919 --> 00:03:03.599 Um and then it started started selling, started phoning up people I knew, started speaking to companies I'd spoke to in the past and things like that, see if they were interested. 00:03:03.919 --> 00:03:07.280 Um and just kept grinding basically. 00:03:07.599 --> 00:03:21.039 Yeah, it's interesting because we we come from a very similar business type, albeit yours has been going longer, but we had those challenges where we we started in my in my dad's spare office, if you like, or my dad's office in his study in his house. 00:03:21.360 --> 00:03:24.879 Um and the barriers for entry of recruitment are incredibly lower. 00:03:24.960 --> 00:03:26.560 We just need a laptop on a phone. 00:03:26.879 --> 00:03:32.000 What were the challenges that you faced getting started as a an IT provider? 00:03:32.319 --> 00:03:35.120 No, it's not, it's it's it it's exactly the same. 00:03:35.280 --> 00:03:36.080 Exactly the same. 00:03:36.240 --> 00:03:45.840 You you can become you can become you can start a business in IT easier than you could start being a hairdresser, for example. 00:03:46.080 --> 00:03:48.639 The the the the entry level is is pretty low. 00:03:48.879 --> 00:03:53.599 There are a lot of cowboys out there doing this, there are a lot of companies out there that fail doing this. 00:03:53.840 --> 00:03:55.280 It depends how you go about doing it. 00:03:55.360 --> 00:04:01.520 Whether you've got there at the start, it was exciting at the start because it's kind of like I've thrown everything into this. 00:04:01.680 --> 00:04:04.240 I was in a

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place in my life where I could do that, firstly. 00:04:04.400 --> 00:04:09.759 So I didn't take I wasn't taking I was taking risks, but I wasn't risking anything else other than myself at the time. 00:04:10.400 --> 00:04:21.439 Um so I think the the the the entry level wasn't that high back then, but that is probably a little bit down to me not really knowing how much goes into running a company as well. 00:04:21.680 --> 00:04:26.399 I just thought, oh, I can sell this myself, I'll make a margin, yeah, and then I'll pay my bills with that. 00:04:26.560 --> 00:04:36.399 And I didn't really think about tax implications, I didn't think about VAT, I didn't think about when it grows, employees, HR, and all this other stuff that's now that now consumes my life. 00:04:36.639 --> 00:04:40.800 I was gonna ask, do you not need certain vendor accreditations in order to s to start? 00:04:41.120 --> 00:04:43.920 Sales is sales, it's it comes down to, you know, at the end of the day. 00:04:44.079 --> 00:04:46.959 Back then it was a lot more, I'd say it's a lot more loose back then. 00:04:47.120 --> 00:04:55.279 You know, if I knew somebody in distribution and they were they could give me the discounts I needed, then I could play against the big boys. 00:04:55.360 --> 00:04:55.680 That's fine. 00:04:55.839 --> 00:04:57.199 Because I I I backed myself. 00:04:57.279 --> 00:05:00.560 I knew that I would give the customer service that that the customer needed. 00:05:00.800 --> 00:05:03.759 I would also make sure that I understood what I was selling as well. 00:05:04.000 --> 00:05:08.959 So I wasn't it wasn't a technical company back then, but I liked the technology, I had an interest in the technology. 00:05:09.040 --> 00:05:09.600 So I had a lot of. 00:05:13.360 --> 00:05:14.240 Exactly and sell it. 00:05:14.480 --> 00:05:14.879 Yeah, yeah. 00:05:15.759 --> 00:05:20.560 There was a natural interest, a keen interest rather than I've got this thing, I don't really believe in it, I'm gonna sell it. 00:05:20.639 --> 00:05:30.959 Yeah, um I suppose that sort of answers my next question, because the next question is with no like formal training or sort of structured company, what made you think that you could go and do it better than everyone else, really? 00:05:31.360 --> 00:05:36.639 Because the self-belief is you've already mentioned, but is there anything that like really stands out and you think, do you know what? 00:05:36.800 --> 00:05:40.639 This was this is gonna be I'm gonna hang my hat on this almost type thing. 00:05:40.879 --> 00:05:44.480 Yeah, again, it was it's situational in that in that in that aspect. 00:05:44.639 --> 00:05:49.199 I was where I was before, the way they were doing the business, I didn't respect the way they're doing the business. 00:05:49.279 --> 00:05:51.839 Prior to that, I had another job at another reseller who were amazing. 00:05:51.920 --> 00:05:57.519 They're a technical sales company, and I learned a lot from them, and I've got

a lot of respect for them and a lot of time for them. 00:05:57.680 --> 00:06:01.839 The second job I went on to where I thought I could do better than this, I'll give you an example. 00:06:02.000 --> 00:06:05.839 They were bringing in again, you'll you'll never find out who it is, it's fine, but they agree. 00:06:06.639 --> 00:06:15.040 They would bring marketing funds in um one month, and go, okay, go out and sell this, go out and get go and get some leads and things like that. 00:06:15.120 --> 00:06:20.560 And and so I was like, Yeah, okay, hit the phones, speak to people I know, get the leads, get the take it to the bosses. 00:06:20.720 --> 00:06:21.360 Oh, I've got this lead. 00:06:21.519 --> 00:06:22.959 Oh, yeah, we're not selling that anymore. 00:06:23.040 --> 00:06:24.000 We're doing this one now. 00:06:24.160 --> 00:06:26.000 And it's like we get marketing funds from these guys. 00:06:26.079 --> 00:06:28.879 And I was like, this is rubbish because how are we ever going to grow? 00:06:29.040 --> 00:06:34.399 Yeah, I've got you this opportunity, you don't care about the opportunity, you want the marketing funds to get your name out there. 00:06:34.639 --> 00:06:40.000 It's probably you know, they they had a plan, I'm sure that they did okay, but it wasn't the way I wanted to do it. 00:06:40.079 --> 00:06:48.879 I wanted a vendor and a technology that I could trust that I thought was good to be able to take that forward and sell that and make and make make a business off that. 00:06:48.959 --> 00:06:52.560 Yeah, at the time I did I never wanted to run my own business when I was doing this. 00:06:52.639 --> 00:06:56.240 It was just that I was looking at it going, no, you're doing this wrong, I could do this better. 00:06:56.480 --> 00:06:59.199 It was naive of me, but I was lucky. 00:06:59.600 --> 00:07:00.720 You're still sat here, exactly. 00:07:01.839 --> 00:07:14.000 Yeah, we'll probably we'll get onto it more later, but like you said, you know, being that Fortinet partner and and being a specialist in it and believing in what you sell is clearly the sort of story of optech by the look of things. 00:07:14.399 --> 00:07:17.040 Yeah, I mean, there's the personal reasons behind it as well. 00:07:17.120 --> 00:07:20.399 As I said, I was in a position where I could do this at the time. 00:07:20.639 --> 00:07:22.560 It depends how deep you want to go into that one. 00:07:22.639 --> 00:07:26.240 But okay, well, I'll I'll talk about it because there is a crossover. 00:07:27.360 --> 00:07:29.680 Yeah, so the so so you need something to drive you. 00:07:30.000 --> 00:07:31.839 I needed something to drive me at the time. 00:07:32.000 --> 00:07:34.959 Um, and it actually was my two daughters. 00:07:35.120 --> 00:07:41.199 Um I've got three children, but Charlie's only five, so he's like I've only known him for five years, obviously. 00:07:41.439 --> 00:07:48.560 Um but Olivia and Penny, Olivia and Penny were the two that would drive me forward to to

start the start the company. 00:07:48.720 --> 00:07:53.199 Um at the time my ex-wife she wanted to go back to university. 00:07:53.839 --> 00:07:57.519 And uh she asked if I could have we'd separate, obviously. 00:07:57.680 --> 00:07:59.680 Um asked if I could have the girls more. 00:07:59.839 --> 00:08:03.279 I was in working in London at that time and travelling back home every night, so that was quite long. 00:08:03.360 --> 00:08:04.720 So I thought, no, this is perfect. 00:08:04.800 --> 00:08:11.279 You know, I want to do this, I can actually have more time with my children if I'm not travelling to London every day and doing this every day. 00:08:11.519 --> 00:08:13.199 So that was the driver as well. 00:08:13.439 --> 00:08:16.720 Optech, everybody, oh, what is what what's what's optech? 00:08:16.800 --> 00:08:17.600 What it what does it stand for? 00:08:17.680 --> 00:08:19.199 And they operational technology. 00:08:19.360 --> 00:08:21.279 It's not, it's Olivia Penny technology. 00:08:21.360 --> 00:08:22.800 That's where the name actually comes from. 00:08:23.279 --> 00:08:25.519 So I need class, needed a name for it. 00:08:25.680 --> 00:08:26.319 Yeah, of course. 00:08:26.399 --> 00:08:29.680 And what's the reason you're opening it and starting it is is for my two girls. 00:08:29.759 --> 00:08:31.439 So that's so that's where it comes from. 00:08:31.519 --> 00:08:32.879 Everybody thinks it's an IT related. 00:08:33.200 --> 00:08:34.080 Do many people know that? 00:08:34.240 --> 00:08:35.039 Probably not. 00:08:35.279 --> 00:08:37.200 I don't only want to tell internally. 00:08:37.360 --> 00:08:40.639 I think I tell it, you know, when I've had a few beers and things like that. 00:08:41.039 --> 00:08:41.840 It's not there now. 00:08:41.919 --> 00:08:45.039 It's not it's not, it's not, I don't think it's on the website or anything like that at all. 00:08:45.759 --> 00:08:46.399 No, it's not on the web. 00:08:46.480 --> 00:08:49.039 I've looked through and that's the first I've obviously heard of it. 00:08:49.120 --> 00:08:50.639 So yeah, well, that's that's good. 00:08:50.720 --> 00:08:51.120 I like that. 00:08:51.279 --> 00:08:52.000 I like that a lot. 00:08:52.240 --> 00:08:54.159 So that that that was basically the driver. 00:08:54.320 --> 00:08:55.600 Started this little company. 00:08:55.759 --> 00:08:59.600 Literally, I've got I probably did more marketing back then, but it's all on my iPhone myself. 00:08:59.679 --> 00:09:03.360 I haven't haven't ever shared it of me sat in this little office, you know. 00:09:03.759 --> 00:09:05.759 Oh, you guys are probably the same when you got your first office. 00:09:05.840 --> 00:09:11.600 You had got my laptop here and my calculator next to it, and all it's very Instagram and stuff like that. 00:09:11.679 --> 00:09:13.120 And we were on a box. 00:09:16.720 --> 00:09:18.639 The office was twice the size of our desk. 00:09:18.720 --> 00:09:21.679 It was tiny, but we had a balcony, so we thought we were the bollocks. 00:09:22.399 --> 00:09:27.759 Everything needs to be printed out, everything needs a folder, everything needs to go over there and look smart and business like. 00:09:28.080 --> 00:09:28.559 It's so funny. 00:09:30.399 --> 00:09:31.120 We never print anything. 00:09:31.279 --> 00:09:32.960 No, we'll get one anyway though, because it looks good. 00:09:33.600 --> 00:09:33.919 Exactly. 00:09:34.000 --> 00:09:49.679 Yeah, and that's what it was like for the first the first couple of years when it was just me and it, me, and me and the dog at first, and then um got so actually it wasn't, it was just me first, and then I got lonely in the office because you can not I'm speaking to customers, I'm speaking to distributors. 00:09:49.840 --> 00:09:53.120 I was like, well, this is still a little bit kind of still the same four walls. 00:09:53.279 --> 00:09:54.399 So that's when I got the dog. 00:09:54.480 --> 00:09:56.320 So the dog was the first employee, basically. 00:09:56.639 --> 00:09:58.320 He's still on payroll, don't answer that. 00:09:58.480 --> 00:10:00.559 Yeah, no, she's still yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. 00:10:00.799 --> 00:10:01.759 Massive shareholder. 00:10:02.080 --> 00:10:03.600 Um, and then it started growing. 00:10:03.679 --> 00:10:07.200 So I employed my sister, she was working and she still works with us today. 00:10:07.279 --> 00:10:07.360 Okay. 00:10:07.600 --> 00:10:17.519 Um, so she started doing some admin work in the morning, and then I started employing outside the family and finding small people, and we coasted along for a little while just selling anything. 00:10:17.759 --> 00:10:19.519 Fortinet was always going to be the thing. 00:10:19.679 --> 00:10:22.480 That's where I had most of my connections, that's the technology I liked. 00:10:22.960 --> 00:10:24.480 Your passion in Fortinet as well. 00:10:24.720 --> 00:10:27.759 Yeah, and that was you know, that was that's what we were pushing. 00:10:28.000 --> 00:10:31.440 But at the same time, it's a startup company, you sell anything. 00:10:31.840 --> 00:10:36.159 Um, so we were saying laptops, desktops, mice, iPads, anything back then. 00:10:36.399 --> 00:10:38.799 You had to make ends meet to begin with, didn't you? 00:10:39.039 --> 00:10:43.679 Yeah, and that was yeah, we were never gonna make a killing on that, but it that's not the kind of company we were building. 00:10:43.840 --> 00:10:44.799 We don't do any of that anymore. 00:10:44.879 --> 00:10:49.759 But back then, so would you use that as a foot in the door to then sell bigger products and bigger services? 00:10:50.000 --> 00:10:57.600 Yeah, that would sell to a recruitment agency selling 15 laptops on the basis then you would uh grow the account essentially. 00:10:57.840 --> 00:10:58.559 That's the idea. 00:10:58.799 --> 00:11:02.320 Yeah, in theory, yeah, on paper, that's what it would have been. 00:11:02.480 --> 00:11:05.840 But in practice, it was more honestly again, you will know what it's like.

00:11:05.919 --> 00:11:07.440 You're just all over the place at the start. 00:11:07.679 --> 00:11:16.559 I've got to chase payments for this, I've got to send invoices out for that, and we weren't using I didn't use any like outsource agencies, it was all done in-house. 00:11:16.720 --> 00:11:21.200 I was very, very frugal at the start on what I was spending money on and things like that. 00:11:21.519 --> 00:11:28.799 From your from your earliest memory almost, was the is there a standout moment there's a real bump in the road early doors? 00:11:29.039 --> 00:11:37.279 Or did you have, you know, is there something you go sh we've had one a big big dropout, so a big deal to drop that one. 00:11:37.440 --> 00:11:40.080 It was like half of our quarterly revenue. 00:11:40.159 --> 00:11:41.360 We sat there like shit. 00:11:41.519 --> 00:11:42.080 Yeah. 00:11:42.320 --> 00:11:44.399 Is that when the springs to mind is that of interest? 00:11:44.559 --> 00:11:45.360 There's loads, I suppose. 00:11:45.919 --> 00:11:46.240 There's loads. 00:11:46.399 --> 00:11:47.440 Some of them I won't share. 00:11:48.240 --> 00:11:51.120 Okay, yeah, if it's that big, don't worry about it. 00:11:51.200 --> 00:11:54.639 But no, some of them sort of like knocked you off course. 00:11:55.120 --> 00:11:56.080 Massively, massively. 00:11:56.559 --> 00:12:01.519 So if you want to talk about it as a as a bigger picture, running a business nowadays is is tough. 00:12:02.639 --> 00:12:09.440 Yeah, I I I say I was naive going back into it 10 years ago, and I asked myself now, after 10 years of experience, would I do it again? 00:12:09.679 --> 00:12:10.240 Probably not. 00:12:10.399 --> 00:12:11.679 It's it's uh there's a lot of change. 00:12:12.240 --> 00:12:12.879 Good question, actually. 00:12:13.120 --> 00:12:14.320 We should log that one for the next one. 00:12:14.399 --> 00:12:14.799 There you go. 00:12:15.039 --> 00:12:15.600 Would you do about it? 00:12:15.679 --> 00:12:17.440 Would you not would you do this again? 00:12:17.679 --> 00:12:20.000 It's so much more to it, and it's hard, it's getting harder and harder. 00:12:20.080 --> 00:12:21.039 You've got Brexit. 00:12:21.279 --> 00:12:21.840 That happened. 00:12:22.080 --> 00:12:23.039 That would have just happened. 00:12:23.200 --> 00:12:23.759 That was terrible. 00:12:23.919 --> 00:12:30.000 That was like overnight the the exchange rate changed because I was buying things over you know in dollars, so the exchange rate changed. 00:12:30.080 --> 00:12:31.840 I lost margin straight away on deals. 00:12:32.000 --> 00:12:40.480 Um, there's obviously there's there's issues internally with staff that as they go with you know, you as your company grows, people have their own issues, they bring them to work and things like that. 00:12:40.559 --> 00:12:41.600 And that was new to me as well. 00:12:41.759 --> 00:12:46.240 I know I have my issues, and I've done that, but I kind of left them at home and I was always focused on the company. 00:12:46.320 --> 00:12:53.759 Yeah, but that's that that's new as well because people do bring it into work and without them realising sometimes as well. 00:12:54.080 --> 00:12:58.080 People's situations affect them, they're in a bad mood, and you sometimes don't realise it. 00:12:58.240 --> 00:12:58.559 Yeah. 00:12:58.799 --> 00:13:01.759 Arguably, I probably did bring it into work if you ask some of the staff back at the time. 00:13:02.000 --> 00:13:03.279 I definitely do, and I don't think I do. 00:13:03.440 --> 00:13:04.960 It says to me after about an hour, you okay? 00:13:06.000 --> 00:13:07.039 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 00:13:08.720 --> 00:13:08.879 Am I? 00:13:09.039 --> 00:13:09.759 I thought I was alive. 00:13:10.000 --> 00:13:11.279 I thought I did it well. 00:13:11.759 --> 00:13:13.279 After he's just screamed at me. 00:13:13.600 --> 00:13:15.679 Yeah, you haven't spoken to anything for 45 minutes. 00:13:15.919 --> 00:13:16.559 Yes, yeah. 00:13:16.720 --> 00:13:17.600 Yeah, probably, yeah. 00:13:17.679 --> 00:13:19.600 That's because people are missing their targets usually. 00:13:19.679 --> 00:13:27.200 But yeah, um and on on um growth, like initially you you grew technically before you built a sales team. 00:13:27.440 --> 00:13:28.080 No, it's weird. 00:13:28.159 --> 00:13:29.440 So yes and no. 00:13:29.600 --> 00:13:36.720 So we are a technical company, we've always been a technical company, uh, hence why I think we've done okay and we've done what we've done. 00:13:36.799 --> 00:13:42.240 So I was running the company for a few years with uh small staff, uh another salesperson. 00:13:42.960 --> 00:13:47.360 Um I can't remember how many had back then, but maybe three, four people. 00:13:47.919 --> 00:13:57.200 Um, and then I was on a project in London um working on deploying a load of access points and new switches for a customer. 00:13:57.440 --> 00:13:59.600 And I bought a contractor in at the time. 00:13:59.919 --> 00:14:02.960 Previously, we'd used a distributor to do all our professional services. 00:14:03.120 --> 00:14:06.559 We didn't have it in-house, I didn't have the budget to pay somebody to do that. 00:14:06.720 --> 00:14:12.480 Um, and I wasn't technical enough to go into an environment and go, right, this is how it's done, this is how it's always been done. 00:14:12.559 --> 00:14:14.480 And you know, I'm a salesperson at the end of the day. 00:14:14.639 --> 00:14:15.039 Yeah, sure. 00:14:15.679 --> 00:14:24.559 Um, so I was on a project and bought in a contractor who was amazing, absolutely amazing, technically, really nice bloke, terrible salesperson. 00:14:24.960 --> 00:14:32.799 Literally, just he came up with all these great ideas in his back bedroom and and write all these white papers and things like that, and nobody ever saw him. 00:14:33.120 --> 00:14:35.279 Just couldn't deliver or couldn't explain it. 00:14:35.519 --> 00:14:37.200 No, he's and there's plenty out there, yeah. 00:14:37.279 --> 00:14:42.000

There's plenty out there, but but on this project, it was like very clear that that we we clicked. 00:14:42.159 --> 00:14:49.840 And I was like, uh during the during the project, I'm gonna I'm gonna see what we can see if we can work again to work together again in the future. 00:14:50.159 --> 00:14:53.679 Um, services is obviously the way to go, the margins are a lot higher. 00:14:53.840 --> 00:14:56.720 It's getting harder and harder to sell tin because there's more. 00:14:56.879 --> 00:15:00.320 I said earlier, the the the bar for entry as a reseller is really low. 00:15:00.399 --> 00:15:05.600 You know, I could start up a reseller tomorrow and start selling things and make a bunch of money from it, probably. 00:15:06.000 --> 00:15:14.080 You wouldn't, you wouldn't, but you would go in, you'd have people coming in and taking all the margin out of selling tin just to just to win a deal to get the revenue. 00:15:14.399 --> 00:15:18.480 So it was very clear that professional services and managed services is the way to go. 00:15:18.639 --> 00:15:24.159 So sometimes they would do it marginless in order to get the foot in the door in a bigger picture. 00:15:24.320 --> 00:15:26.159 Yes, uh project work. 00:15:26.559 --> 00:15:27.919 Yeah, hey, I'm guilty of that as well. 00:15:28.080 --> 00:15:29.679 We've all done that. 00:15:29.759 --> 00:15:31.679 But it's interesting to learn the other side of it. 00:15:31.759 --> 00:15:34.399 Like we I had an idea of how it works, but not to that extent. 00:15:34.480 --> 00:15:47.840 So you're saying like companies, competitors, and sometimes yourself will go in, make no money, sometimes potentially even lose money on a uh load of laptops in order to get the professional services stuff. 00:15:48.559 --> 00:15:49.360 You can be really disruptive. 00:15:49.440 --> 00:15:51.919 You can do it, you can do it out of spite if you want to. 00:15:52.879 --> 00:16:00.559 You know, and I want to win this, I I I I I I count these people as my competitors, I'm gonna win this and and and upset them a little bit. 00:16:00.879 --> 00:16:05.279 That's not the best way to make money or do business, but you know, sometimes it happens. 00:16:05.759 --> 00:16:18.799 But as I'd going back to um that project and and Dave, who's my business partner for OpTech Services, this so this was about uh I'm gonna say five, six years ago, I think. 00:16:19.039 --> 00:16:20.720 Um it's all blurred into one. 00:16:20.960 --> 00:16:29.440 Um take him out for a steak and some wine in London after this project finishes, get him drunk, and then see if he wants to work together and start a services company. 00:16:29.600 --> 00:16:30.639 Um and that's what I did. 00:16:31.039 --> 00:16:32.399 Sound too dissimilar, you know. 00:16:32.879 --> 00:16:33.440 Yeah. 00:16:34.000 --> 00:16:45.759 That's where we've got we've we've got we've got in our uh in our office in Cardiff, we have got like uh our staff room's a pub, and we have got on the wall a couple of like drinks, like uh flasks to say, and I've got a proposal for you. 00:16:45.919 --> 00:16:48.159 Sounds like I was gonna marry him, but it wasn't that. 00:16:48.240 --> 00:16:49.919 It was um, and that was it. 00:16:50.000 --> 00:16:52.559 That uh after that point, Dave came on board. 00:16:52.879 --> 00:16:59.039 All our professional services started going through Dave, and within I'm gonna say two weeks, he was, I need help on this. 00:16:59.360 --> 00:17:03.840 We got another professional services guy in working with Dave, and it's almost like starting again. 00:17:03.919 --> 00:17:09.920 Again, they were working in Dave's back bedroom trying to offer these services, and then week three comes around and goes, We need an office. 00:17:10.000 --> 00:17:15.039 Okay, we'll get an office in Cardiff, and then that's kind of where the company's kind of just rocketed. 00:17:15.119 --> 00:17:22.799 It just grew and grew and grew and grew to where we are now, and that's when we go services first, technical first. 00:17:22.880 --> 00:17:24.319 We invert we're very good. 00:17:24.559 --> 00:17:26.240 This is where you guys are gonna come into it. 00:17:26.400 --> 00:17:29.920 We're very good at finding technical staff and training technical staff. 00:17:30.240 --> 00:17:38.240 We've had people come from next and trained them up, we've had people come from with no IT background or no job, like no background at all, and trained them up. 00:17:38.319 --> 00:17:42.880 Uh, we've had people in the industry who just want to change and got them trained up on where we need them to be. 00:17:42.960 --> 00:17:43.680 We're very good at that. 00:17:43.839 --> 00:17:46.640 We're very good at making a very good, strong technical team. 00:17:47.200 --> 00:17:48.960 We can't find salespeople. 00:17:49.279 --> 00:17:50.559 You can't find salespeople. 00:17:50.720 --> 00:17:52.640 I've I failed time and time again. 00:17:53.279 --> 00:18:00.240 I have I have got some really good salespeople who've been with me for a few years now, but that's why we're using recruiters for the sales, the sales side. 00:18:00.480 --> 00:18:00.720 Sure. 00:18:01.279 --> 00:18:07.359 And that shift towards uh being a service-led business, because I see now you're very heavy on security. 00:18:08.240 --> 00:18:10.799 Is that an easy shift from it? 00:18:10.880 --> 00:18:21.279 Seems to be the natural path is you start selling tin or shifting tin, then you transition into a service-led business, and now everyone is solutions and services, particularly security. 00:18:21.839 --> 00:18:26.799 Yeah, I would just I think security, you can't, I mean, you can't get away from it. 00:18:26.960 --> 00:18:34.160 You can go into any your laptop's probably got antivirus on all these all these other things, but yeah, the this building here, I'm guessing. 00:18:34.480 --> 00:18:37.759 I usually walk in and look for access points to see what people have got and things like that. 00:18:37.839 -->

00:18:42.559 But I'm sure there's I'm sure they've got if it's shared IT services, there'll be a firewall here and stuff like that. 00:18:42.640 --> 00:18:45.200 And it is a it's a massive business. 00:18:46.000 --> 00:18:51.440 And there is always gonna be professional services, not always, but usually professional services attach to that. 00:18:51.519 --> 00:18:59.839 So a lot of companies can sell this tin, can sell the appliances and the licenses, but they can't deploy it, or they can't deploy it to the right standard. 00:19:00.000 --> 00:19:00.960 That's another thing as well. 00:19:01.039 --> 00:19:05.039 There's there are people out there trying to do this that probably shouldn't be. 00:19:05.519 --> 00:19:15.599 We've we've had these conversations obviously in the past, but it seems that a lot of your competitors and a lot of companies in the market are sell, sell, sell, sell, sell. 00:19:15.839 --> 00:19:32.880 We've got a sales team of 25 people and they've got about four techies in the background just being worked to their bone and just under-delivering, oversold, over-promised, under delivered, and essentially then it's quite easy pickings for a stable technical company like yourself to come in and save it by the sounds of things. 00:19:33.119 --> 00:19:36.079 Yeah, yeah, but we partner with bigger, bigger sales companies as well. 00:19:36.160 --> 00:19:38.559 That's a massive revenue stream for us as well. 00:19:38.640 --> 00:19:42.400 You know, we we to use you as their technical arm interest. 00:19:42.799 --> 00:19:44.240 That that's growing massively for us. 00:19:44.400 --> 00:19:46.480 Because we're really interested in doing that services side. 00:19:46.640 --> 00:19:54.720 We've built a machine that's very good at doing a specific job with a specific technology that is very, very highly regarded in the industry. 00:19:55.759 --> 00:19:57.599 Accidentally I did it, but we've done it. 00:19:58.319 --> 00:19:59.839 Tomorrow, you get there, you got that. 00:20:00.000 --> 00:20:03.119 So we so I've got this amazing tool, I've got this amazing team. 00:20:03.279 --> 00:20:17.200 Um, and and yeah, people people are selling this equipment and they need it deploying properly, and as it's a security uh application or appliance or uh software, whatever you want to call it, as it's in the security realm, it has to be done properly. 00:20:17.359 --> 00:20:20.240 Because if it's not done properly, what's the point now, having it? 00:20:20.480 --> 00:20:20.880 Yeah. 00:20:21.440 --> 00:20:31.200 Yeah, you start causing problems or or not fixing problems and causing bigger problems to companies that are better than data breaches, etc. 00:20:31.680 --> 00:20:39.039 You can Google Fortinet in in in right now, and I I would imagine there's something called 40 bleed at the top, which is the latest thing we're dealing with. 00:20:39.599 --> 00:20:45.599 And Forty bleed, this isn't what the podcast has to talk about, but Forty bleed in essence is is not Fortinet's fault. 00:20:45.920 --> 00:20:53.279 Basically, there was a breach of the credentials, and it was uh mostly due to misconfigured uh firewalls. 00:20:53.920 --> 00:21:02.400 And that is that that's got to either be on the MSP or MSSP who's installed it, or the customers installed it wrong, or they've not maintained it. 00:21:02.640 --> 00:21:13.039 And that again is a big area of business for us because we'll we'll install it and then we've got the managed service as well to try and uh keep keep the customer up to date, keep keep them as secure as possible, really. 00:21:13.279 --> 00:21:17.759 You could again you can spend uh hundreds of thousands of pounds on this stuff, but if you don't look after it, what's the point? 00:21:18.240 --> 00:21:22.960 Yeah, so that that MSSP piece, if you like, is the ongoing support. 00:21:23.200 --> 00:21:31.279 You've done the installation, obviously, that costs, but then you charge a monthly subscription almost just to keep it taken over to make sure they remain secure. 00:21:31.599 --> 00:21:46.319 Yeah, yeah, and from a services point of view, again, that's really important because if you go and sell somebody a so the way it works, if I if let's let's do it on the basic level, if I sell a Fortigate, so so we're gonna I'm just gonna talk Fortinet today because that's pretty much all we do nowadays. 00:21:46.559 --> 00:21:48.160 Um we do other things as well. 00:21:48.480 --> 00:21:50.400 Fortinet's largest partner in Wales? 00:21:51.039 --> 00:21:51.920 Only expert partner. 00:21:52.640 --> 00:21:53.279 Only expert partner. 00:21:53.759 --> 00:21:54.000 Sorry. 00:21:54.079 --> 00:21:55.920 I was trying to get in there at some point. 00:21:56.720 --> 00:21:59.839 Um but if we buy if we're if we buy a piece of tin and it's got license. 00:22:00.319 --> 00:22:03.359 Is on it and I'll sell that to you, and you'll get three years of licenses. 00:22:03.680 --> 00:22:07.519 And then three years later, I'll come to you and go, Oh, do you want to renew that? 00:22:07.680 --> 00:22:09.599 And you go, Yes, please, I'm so make more money. 00:22:09.680 --> 00:22:13.599 But obviously, everybody else is going to find out in those three years that you've got it, and they want the renewal as well. 00:22:13.680 --> 00:22:15.440 So it becomes competitive. 00:22:15.599 --> 00:22:24.000 But even those three years, if I can go, oh, we'll sell you this, we'll license it for you, and then we'll settle manage service contracts on it on top, and then we'll do QBRs with you as well. 00:22:24.079 --> 00:22:29.839 So we'll be speaking to you every quarter to make sure you're happy with it, and then we'll see other projects coming along and help you with those when they come to it. 00:22:30.000 --> 00:22:31.680 Oh, and it's time to renew again. 00:22:31.759 --> 00:22:32.720 We're already here. 00:22:32.880 --> 00:22:35.599 Yeah, it's a whole spend three years for a renewal list. 00:22:35.920 --> 00:22:36.960 Exactly a

bit different, isn't it? 00:22:37.119 --> 00:22:43.359 And that's what we used to do is just like sell something and come back and be surprised when there's some some new guy on the block who like project work in the meantime. 00:22:43.759 --> 00:22:44.880 Our account management wasn't great. 00:22:44.960 --> 00:22:46.240 We're improving on that. 00:22:46.400 --> 00:22:49.920 But we've had the product for years, we just haven't pushed it out properly. 00:22:50.640 --> 00:22:52.400 We haven't told people we've got it. 00:22:52.640 --> 00:22:53.839 Um that's what we're doing now. 00:22:53.920 --> 00:22:54.960 That's why I'm doing this. 00:22:55.839 --> 00:23:06.480 So obviously, we're a recruitment agency and we have lots of scaling businesses, we have lots of existing businesses, uh sorry, bigger, existing longer-term, longer standing businesses, if you like. 00:23:07.440 --> 00:23:18.799 One of the problems we find, especially in the acquisition uh mergers and acquisitions phase, but also scaling, is protecting culture whilst scaling. 00:23:19.279 --> 00:23:30.160 And I remember you've mentioned it before that something you're very, very big on is remaining the same from a two-person business to a 50-person business. 00:23:30.559 --> 00:23:30.880 Yes. 00:23:31.519 --> 00:23:37.279 I don't expect a magic wand, but how do you intend on keeping that important culture that you have? 00:23:37.839 --> 00:23:45.200 What is it what are you gonna do, or how do you plan on sort of just keeping it as it is, keeping that good culture you've already got? 00:23:45.680 --> 00:23:50.160 Um so this could be my naivety in in doing this as well, but uh you're right. 00:23:50.240 --> 00:23:54.160 I do want to keep there's an element of of team, a massive element of team there. 00:23:54.240 --> 00:24:01.599 I want I want everybody to feel welcome, I want everybody to feel like we're we're we're pushing together for for excellence, really. 00:24:01.759 --> 00:24:09.599 I want I want I want OpTec to be seen as not a premium's the wrong word. 00:24:09.680 --> 00:24:10.960 I want I want people to think they're excellent. 00:24:11.039 --> 00:24:19.359 We are experts, I want people to see see us as the best, and I want the team to feel that they're the best as well when we're going through that as well. 00:24:20.000 --> 00:24:23.039 So we are quite picky about who we're taking in. 00:24:23.119 --> 00:24:30.480 We don't want to bring at the moment the people, for example, the salespeople we're bringing in, they've got to fit with the the way we're doing it at the moment. 00:24:30.559 --> 00:24:35.440 They have technical sales, they've got to have an interest in the technology, they've got to have a drive to make money. 00:24:35.519 --> 00:24:43.279 But what we don't want is blue suits and brown shoes rocking up with a history of going, oh yeah, this is this is how we do it, this is how I've always done it, and stuff like that. 00:24:43.359 --> 00:24:51.039 And I think I I I

like to have people can come in and and want to mould themselves to fit with us and but are keen to learn as well. 00:24:51.200 --> 00:24:52.720 The opposite way, yeah, yeah, yeah. 00:24:52.880 --> 00:24:55.519 We learned that with the first few CVs we sent across, didn't we? 00:24:55.599 --> 00:24:57.519 It was a clear thanks but no thanks. 00:24:57.599 --> 00:25:02.000 I'm sure he could do the job, yeah, but yeah, I'm sure they could do the job however. 00:25:02.160 --> 00:25:06.559 I don't after a one call, not quite sure they're gonna be for us. 00:25:06.640 --> 00:25:13.519 Yeah, and it's quite refreshing actually because they come with really good numbers, and you knew that as well. 00:25:13.599 --> 00:25:18.640 And it was like, no, they wouldn't fit with us, and that's that's the most important bit, first of all. 00:25:18.960 --> 00:25:20.480 It's it's it's tough. 00:25:20.720 --> 00:25:25.440 The so the reseller world, the world that we're in, I would say is the hardest. 00:25:25.759 --> 00:25:37.759 This is gonna annoy everybody who a vendor that's seen this, everybody's a distribution has seen this, but I would argue that the reseller world is the hardest bit to sell in because especially a small reseller as well. 00:25:38.000 --> 00:25:43.119 Yeah, um, if you're going in, we've got we don't, you know, I've got we've got no marketing presence really. 00:25:43.279 --> 00:25:47.920 We start, we're trying, we're getting there, but we don't have a massive budget behind marketing and things like that. 00:25:48.160 --> 00:25:59.039 We we thrive off doing a good job and word of mouth, which is a brilliant way to do business, really, because we've got loyal customers who always come to us because we do a good job, but that's slow, you know. 00:25:59.200 --> 00:26:01.519 Yeah, we're not we're not gonna get you so fucked. 00:26:01.599 --> 00:26:03.839 Yeah, we're not out there doing TikTok dances and stuff like that. 00:26:04.079 --> 00:26:06.480 We can do if you want later. 00:26:07.599 --> 00:26:08.480 That's an appropriate. 00:26:09.119 --> 00:26:11.920 Um, but that that's that's a that's a slow way of doing it. 00:26:12.160 --> 00:26:20.720 So um I would say finding the right salespeople, and again, I've seen this, I've bought people in that I've thought, oh yeah, they're gonna be great at this, and then they failed. 00:26:20.880 --> 00:26:22.799 And sometimes that's them. 00:26:23.039 --> 00:26:28.400 Sometimes I made a bad choice on that person hasn't fitted that, or I've expected more from them. 00:26:28.640 --> 00:26:34.480 Um and yeah, that's that I mean it is tough. 00:26:34.799 --> 00:26:43.200 We've got we as I said, we haven't got the marketing funds that the other companies have, we're not doing events all the time, we're not we're not we're not putting things on LinkedIn all the time and things like that. 00:26:43.359 --> 00:26:45.039 Arguably we should be, and we're trying to. 00:26:45.359 --> 00:26:46.400 There has been a spike in that. 00:26:46.480 --> 00:26:48.319 I've noticed even the last like two months. 00:26:48.400 --> 00:26:48.559 Yes. 00:26:48.880 --> 00:26:53.680 From from your guy's side, there has been a spike in video approach yesterday, the 40 bleed thing. 00:26:53.759 --> 00:26:55.279 I read through that earlier on today. 00:26:55.440 --> 00:26:55.519 Yeah. 00:26:55.839 --> 00:26:56.240 So you go. 00:26:56.400 --> 00:26:58.319 Yeah, so we have there's a conscious effort to do that. 00:26:58.400 --> 00:26:58.880 Yeah, of course. 00:26:59.039 --> 00:26:59.839 But that's still slow. 00:27:00.000 --> 00:27:00.160 Yeah. 00:27:00.319 --> 00:27:09.680 Um, whereas if you're if you're in if you're in vendor land, you've got the vendor's backing of, you know, we could look around here right now, and there's so many vendors here that have got you've got your microphone with sure on it. 00:27:09.759 --> 00:27:22.720 I'm gonna look around now, see nothing, but uh you've got a Sony camera up in front, the small rig holding it, HP laptop, HP laptop, all these different vendors who are gonna have so many leads coming in and so much business there because you can only get it from one person, kind of thing. 00:27:23.279 --> 00:27:33.119 Um distribution, they're basically getting all that from the vendor, goes to a distributor, so they've got to put it, put that out, and then you've got the resellers at the bottom just go, no, I want to win that, I want to win that. 00:27:33.200 --> 00:27:34.640 And we've got to get the customers' attention. 00:27:34.720 --> 00:27:39.599 Yeah, they've seen an HP laptop or a Sony camera, but it doesn't mean they have to come to OpTechs or buy it. 00:27:39.680 --> 00:27:41.119 Yeah, and we're all fighting each other. 00:27:41.200 --> 00:27:43.440 And that is a skill to learn, it is hard. 00:27:43.599 --> 00:27:45.839 Um, and you can either you can do that. 00:27:46.000 --> 00:27:51.279 There's two ways you can do that, is you can actually flood it with salespeople, so you just throw as much as you can at it. 00:27:51.920 --> 00:27:56.720 Which tends to be the norm, to be honest, especially from our experience, obviously, you'll go more, but it is, isn't it? 00:27:56.799 --> 00:27:58.319 It's like, right, how are we gonna get more sales? 00:27:58.480 --> 00:27:59.200 Just hire more salespeople. 00:27:59.440 --> 00:27:59.920 Yeah, it works. 00:28:00.000 --> 00:28:01.759 We we haven't got the management structure to manage that. 00:28:01.839 --> 00:28:04.079 I'm the manager, nobody wants to be managed by me. 00:28:04.160 --> 00:28:08.880 I'm not, you know, it's I'm the manager, and we don't have that management structure, and it's an expensive way of doing it, really. 00:28:08.960 --> 00:28:11.599 That's a risk, riskier way of doing it, I would argue. 00:28:11.759 --> 00:28:21.920 Or you can do it the way we've done it, which is we've got to find the right people, we're finding bigger, more margin-rich deals, and doing it that way around, or

specialist deals as well. 00:28:22.240 --> 00:28:29.200 It's it's quite unusual to have the CEO still managing the sales people in a 30-person business. 00:28:29.359 --> 00:28:34.000 However, you don't strike me in any way, shape, or form as a micromanager. 00:28:34.480 --> 00:28:37.200 So, how do you build trust without micromanaging? 00:28:37.359 --> 00:28:38.079 I don't know. 00:28:38.400 --> 00:28:39.039 It's difficult. 00:28:40.000 --> 00:28:41.359 I struggle with it, don't I? 00:28:41.680 --> 00:28:42.240 No comments. 00:28:44.000 --> 00:28:45.839 My team, my team are smashing it at the moment. 00:28:45.920 --> 00:28:48.640 I they're they're doing a brilliant job, an absolutely amazing job. 00:28:48.720 --> 00:28:50.799 This is probably this has been our strongest year so far. 00:28:51.039 --> 00:28:51.279 Good. 00:28:51.440 --> 00:28:59.519 And and and it's and it's mo and the profit levels, the profit margin makers, it's professional services, managed services are most of what we're selling now. 00:28:59.759 --> 00:29:02.559 The margin level is a lot higher, and the team are smashing it. 00:29:02.720 --> 00:29:05.440 And yeah, I don't micromanage them, I kind of trust them. 00:29:05.599 --> 00:29:10.400 I don't I don't know if that's maybe I should be more hands-on with them, pro possibly should be. 00:29:10.640 --> 00:29:13.759 There's a difference though, isn't there, between being hands-on and micromanaging. 00:29:13.920 --> 00:29:16.960 And I think that a big difference as well, especially from the recipient. 00:29:17.839 --> 00:29:24.960 You can be hands-on, you can be helpful, you can be a wicket, the CEO sits in the office without being that micromanager of what you're doing at 9, 11, 12, you know. 00:29:25.200 --> 00:29:34.960 Yeah, there's a there's a big difference, and it's difficult, I imagine, to stay not micromanaging whilst also offering your support. 00:29:35.440 --> 00:29:38.799 Yeah, I think I think it's that it comes down to respect at the end of the day as well. 00:29:39.119 --> 00:29:43.519 If we if we've employed the right people, if we're interviewing the right people, we give them a level of respect. 00:29:43.759 --> 00:29:45.359 But but it goes both ways as well. 00:29:45.519 --> 00:29:49.759 They have to respect our time, like Dave and I as business owners, we have something we need to do. 00:29:49.920 --> 00:29:53.599 You can't just disappear for half a day and go, oh yeah, I thought it'd be alright kind of thing. 00:29:53.680 --> 00:29:54.240 That's not right. 00:29:54.400 --> 00:29:56.960 Tell us what you're doing, that's fine, and you can go and do it. 00:29:57.359 --> 00:30:00.079 But you know, we're not you know, not their parent at the end of the day. 00:30:00.240 --> 00:30:07.440 I can trust these people to go out, and ultimately, as a salesperson, if you don't hear your number, it's quite straightforward, isn't it? 00:30:07.519 --> 00:30:07.920 Yeah. 00:30:08.160 --> 00:30:11.680 So the plans for you then, you're you're nearing on 30 people. 00:30:11.839 --> 00:30:12.480 I think it was 20. 00:30:12.799 --> 00:30:13.440 No, we're 20 now. 00:30:13.519 --> 00:30:15.039 We're 20, literally 20 from Monday. 00:30:15.519 --> 00:30:18.559 The plan is 30 by the end of this year, plus more if needs be. 00:30:18.640 --> 00:30:22.319 If we so we can we're coming to the end of the financial year. 00:30:22.480 --> 00:30:23.200 So it's weird. 00:30:23.279 --> 00:30:26.960 So we've we've talked about being a technical company, and that's great. 00:30:27.119 --> 00:30:28.960 I love the engineers, I think they're brilliant. 00:30:29.039 --> 00:30:32.000 I'm it's really easy to sell them because they're so good at what they do as well. 00:30:32.160 --> 00:30:33.359 I'll talk about that in a minute. 00:30:33.519 --> 00:30:37.839 But I I I love I love who they are, I love just working with them. 00:30:37.920 --> 00:30:42.960 They're nice people, um, they're really good at their job, and I can trust them. 00:30:43.119 --> 00:30:44.640 And I've got a lot of them. 00:30:44.799 --> 00:30:50.960 Um, but now we're starting to sell more, and now we're looking at investing in our sales team and using recruiters. 00:30:51.119 --> 00:30:52.319 We only use one recruiter. 00:30:53.759 --> 00:30:54.559 I was gonna say drop the flurrell. 00:30:54.720 --> 00:30:56.880 We only use one drop the flural, please. 00:30:57.519 --> 00:30:58.799 We only use one recruitment. 00:30:59.519 --> 00:31:01.279 Um recruit using recruiters is new. 00:31:01.359 --> 00:31:03.279 I've I've never right, you're not gonna like this, guys. 00:31:03.359 --> 00:31:07.599 I've never expected it before because to be fair, you've always maintained that from the from the first conversation. 00:31:09.200 --> 00:31:14.000 But from the from the first conversation, you were like, I don't like the recruiters. 00:31:14.160 --> 00:31:22.079 And it it's fair because obviously that you know we could talk about this in a whole new episode, but we don't have a bad name. 00:31:22.319 --> 00:31:25.680 Yeah, well, you guys are these guys are great. 00:31:26.160 --> 00:31:28.960 No, it's you can leave that in, George, right? 00:31:29.759 --> 00:31:32.720 Well, it's been a pleasant experience actually working with you guys. 00:31:32.960 --> 00:31:36.640 We've tried so many times to find salespeople, and now we're having that sales drive. 00:31:36.799 --> 00:31:41.039 So we can have as many engineers as I like, and I can train them up to really high levels. 00:31:41.279 --> 00:31:42.799 You've got to have someone to put them out there. 00:31:42.960 --> 00:31:43.680 They want paying. 00:31:43.920 --> 00:31:44.720 I have to pay these people. 00:31:45.200 --> 00:31:47.359 There's nothing for them to work on, there's no job there for them to do that. 00:31:47.519 --> 00:31:47.759 Exactly. 00:31:47.920 --> 00:31:49.279 Yeah, exactly, exactly. 00:31:49.440 --> 00:31:51.759 So we have to grow now, we need more sales. 00:31:51.839

--> 00:31:54.880 We've got we've got a product, we've got a service, it's really good. 00:31:55.200 --> 00:31:58.559 Very easy to say it's very easy to sell because it's good. 00:31:58.640 --> 00:32:04.160 Uh you still it's still competitive, but I need the sales team to be able to do that now, and that's that's the focus. 00:32:04.319 --> 00:32:09.680 So when we go 20 to 30 before the end of the year, a large chunk of that is gonna be sales. 00:32:09.920 --> 00:32:22.000 But as the sales come in, so say I take five more salespeople on, get them up and running, start making the margin, start selling more services, the guys at the back in the in the in the services team, they're gonna start creaking, and I can't do that. 00:32:22.079 --> 00:32:25.200 I can't let the the service levels we have drop. 00:32:25.519 --> 00:32:27.119 That's what you're built on, essentially, isn't it? 00:32:27.440 --> 00:32:28.000 Good service. 00:32:28.559 --> 00:32:44.079 You've been that was what uh literally one of the first things you said to me, like we're full service because you gave me examples of competitors locally that are completely opposite, um, and hence why they're in a little bit of hot water currently, and that's the reason. 00:32:44.240 --> 00:32:47.200 It's um it's refreshing to hear it that way, to be honest. 00:32:47.519 --> 00:32:50.319 It's a balancing act, and but it you know, that's what we're trying to do. 00:32:50.559 --> 00:32:51.599 There's no magic wand, is there? 00:32:51.680 --> 00:33:01.119 But no, and and and going from 20 to 30 people isn't as scary as going from weirdly, going from 15 to 20 was that there was a there was a there's a kind of a plateau when we're at 15, and then you go to 20 to 20. 00:33:03.680 --> 00:33:04.400 I get it. 00:33:05.119 --> 00:33:06.000 I can see that. 00:33:06.160 --> 00:33:13.440 Because then you're going from like in your head what you perceive as a great idea and a small fun business to shit, I'm a CEO now. 00:33:14.319 --> 00:33:22.640 Yeah, I'm I'm a CEO and this is my MD, and we're responsible for a lot of people's livelihoods, essentially, and it's there's a responsibility around that in itself, isn't it? 00:33:23.039 --> 00:33:34.079 Yeah, oddly though, from from from having a couple of employees, you know, eight years ago, nine years ago, to having 20 now, the stress is exactly the same. 00:33:34.240 --> 00:33:39.039 I felt I felt as much that we I you'd think the pressure would go higher, but it doesn't. 00:33:39.200 --> 00:33:41.039 It's I the pressure was high back then. 00:33:41.359 --> 00:33:42.160 Thank God for that, eh? 00:33:42.960 --> 00:33:44.400 I was just thinking of the same thing. 00:33:44.640 --> 00:33:44.960 Great. 00:33:45.680 --> 00:33:51.680 Because we're at six now, it's going to be seven, and hopefully it's follow up follow a similar path to you guys. 00:33:52.000 --> 00:33:54.559 Um if you're saying it's not going to get any worse, then happy days. 00:33:56.640 --> 00:33:59.039 You care, you care about the bills to pay. 00:33:59.680 --> 00:34:01.839 I suppose I've never thought of it that way. 00:34:02.079 --> 00:34:04.720 You're still pressured nine from eight in the morning until six at night. 00:34:04.799 --> 00:34:06.240 Like you're in work, it's the stress. 00:34:06.319 --> 00:34:08.000 You don't you always take it home with you. 00:34:08.079 --> 00:34:08.320 Yeah. 00:34:08.480 --> 00:34:10.800 It's not going anywhere, and it can't get any worse. 00:34:10.960 --> 00:34:12.239 Yeah, as long as you're making the money. 00:34:12.320 --> 00:34:18.800 So here's a question to you guys, and because obviously I've got a services arm, I've got people that don't carry a number, which I have to put a value on them. 00:34:19.679 --> 00:34:22.400 I'll say to the camera, you've all got a number on your head. 00:34:24.000 --> 00:34:25.920 So they bag them afterwards if you've got to. 00:34:26.639 --> 00:34:33.920 So for you guys, it must be different then because you really are sales how much back office and how much app in. 00:34:34.239 --> 00:34:50.800 Well, I'm not gonna say there is none, but obviously there are contracts and things, but well, this is this is something we we often discuss at at length, really, because we did have uh an ops person, and we brought her in and she was fantastic, ex-recruitment, lovely one. 00:34:51.199 --> 00:34:55.440 And she came in and she did the ops and she was full-time permanent five days a week. 00:34:55.519 --> 00:35:02.320 And unfortunately, after about a month of doing all the project, nitty-gritty stuff that we needed done and catching up, it wasn't enough for her to do. 00:35:02.639 --> 00:35:03.119 Far from it. 00:35:03.199 --> 00:35:11.840 Yeah, so we amicably parted ways, and hopefully, in in a year or so's time when there's enough to do, then she'll come back full-time. 00:35:12.000 --> 00:35:14.559 But to answer your question, we do it between us, yeah. 00:35:14.800 --> 00:35:26.480 Um, which does carry a load in itself because we've also got a number on our heads essentially, so yeah, it's it's difficult because there's no there's no almost like tech team and sales team. 00:35:26.559 --> 00:35:29.840 It's we're all recruiters and we just have to share it basically, don't we? 00:35:30.400 --> 00:35:34.800 I do have a a question about um you mentioned being a specialist, being really helpful. 00:35:35.039 --> 00:35:47.119 Do you because you you you've talked about Fortinet a lot being you know the key vendor, do you work particularly with one vendor because when you build such a good relationship with them, you talked about leads and things like that. 00:35:47.280 --> 00:35:50.639 Once you become a specialist of that, you almost get walked into accounts. 00:35:50.960 --> 00:35:52.480 Kind of, kind of. 00:35:52.719 --> 00:35:57.119 So when I started working with Fortinet 10 years ago, they were a lot smaller, a lot smaller. 00:35:57.199 --> 00:35:57.440 Yeah.

00:35:57.599 --> 00:36:05.440 And they had a drive to take on more partners and they would invest in small partners and and kind of so they like took me out to Vegas. 00:36:05.519 --> 00:36:06.079 They I got some. 00:36:06.480 --> 00:36:07.679 Oh wow, they really did invest in you. 00:36:08.000 --> 00:36:14.639 Yeah, well, I was I was pushing hard and I was kind of almost like actually my account manager at the time um was amazing. 00:36:14.719 --> 00:36:18.239 He uh I a good friend of mine, like now I've spoken to him today. 00:36:18.400 --> 00:36:30.480 Um, really good friend of mine, and he he kind of saw what I was doing and believed in what I was doing before I did, which is weird, but he did, and he kind of carried me forward, he got me invited to these events and things like that. 00:36:30.719 --> 00:36:33.360 Now, I was a different person 10 years ago. 00:36:33.440 --> 00:36:35.760 I didn't use them as networking events as I should have. 00:36:35.840 --> 00:36:43.039 I I I very much used the free beer and everything back then and had a great time, had a great time in hindsight. 00:36:44.000 --> 00:36:48.559 Hindsight, you know, I probably could have made more of the opportunity, but it was fun. 00:36:48.719 --> 00:36:52.960 Um but the but the cut but they they have grown, they've grown and grown and grown and grown. 00:36:53.119 --> 00:37:05.599 You know, they're they're doing great in in the industry they're doing, they're very good at either developing new products themselves and bringing that into their offering or buying a company, but actually integrating it properly uh into their offering. 00:37:05.760 --> 00:37:08.159 Um so as they've grown, we've kind of grown with it. 00:37:08.400 --> 00:37:14.159 With regards to the relationship, it's it's it was a lot closer back then. 00:37:14.480 --> 00:37:15.920 I was probably less professional. 00:37:16.000 --> 00:37:26.800 Well, I definitely was less professional than I am now because I had a smaller company to look after and it and and you know I didn't have I wasn't I wasn't nobody's looking up to me kind of thing. 00:37:26.880 --> 00:37:28.079 Um it's a bit different now. 00:37:28.320 --> 00:37:50.000 But the relationship has they've always supported us, they are great, but because they've grown, they are now getting bigger accounts, so they're they're dealing with some some huge partners and stuff, and and uh naturally, and uh everybody should do this, you know, at the end of the day, they're a sales company as well, technology company heavy focused on sales, they're gonna be selling to the big partners, they're gonna be giving the big partners their uh their attention. 00:37:50.320 --> 00:37:55.679 And I'm not saying that's a bad thing because we do a lot of work with some of the big partners and they come to us because we are good. 00:37:55.760 --> 00:37:57.679 So, yeah, we do get walked into accounts. 00:37:57.920 --> 00:38:02.639 We partner with a lot of the big partners to be able

to enable them to sell more. 00:38:02.800 --> 00:38:10.079 Yeah, um, and I do have friends there still from old who are still there who would bring us through, but their sales team grew so much, I don't know everybody there. 00:38:10.159 --> 00:38:12.880 Yeah, I used to be able to move, you know. 00:38:13.199 --> 00:38:15.519 Yeah, I used to know I'm a lot closer, I knew a lot of them. 00:38:15.679 --> 00:38:27.519 Um but yeah, uh the my relationship with Fortinet and the business we've done that has definitely been built on friendships and and and and hard work and they trust us, yeah. 00:38:27.679 --> 00:38:32.719 You know, they know that they can put us a deal our way and the customer's gonna be happy to deliver, yeah. 00:38:33.039 --> 00:38:35.440 Um and that ultimately means more business for them. 00:38:35.920 --> 00:38:38.880 Of course, less complaints and that they're gonna come back to as well. 00:38:39.039 --> 00:38:40.000 Yeah, yeah, fair. 00:38:40.559 --> 00:38:45.519 I think um the next one's an interesting one because we've already had this conversation this week, in fact. 00:38:45.920 --> 00:38:51.920 But with um COVID and and homeworking and everything that surrounds it. 00:38:52.079 --> 00:39:01.280 How have you um how have you dealt with and remedied and what I suppose what challenges have you faced post-COVID with homeworking and things like that? 00:39:02.400 --> 00:39:04.639 And getting people back into the office or not? 00:39:05.760 --> 00:39:07.599 It was less getting people into the office. 00:39:07.679 --> 00:39:13.599 We because of the nature of what we do and a lot of our guys on the service desk, they had to be in the office anyway. 00:39:13.760 --> 00:39:19.280 So during COVID we had some big projects where the projects the project engineers were still out on site. 00:39:19.519 --> 00:39:31.280 We had a big school rollout for about I think it's 90 schools Wi-Fi um in Swansea uh and around Swansea, and they were basically allowed the schools were empty, so it was perfect time for them to go and install this. 00:39:31.920 --> 00:39:34.960 So we did that, and that kept us ticking through COVID quite nicely. 00:39:35.199 --> 00:39:50.719 Um coming back afterwards, and when we started concentrating on growing that service desk, you we don't like or we don't if you need to be at home for a reason, we'll be flexible on the service desk, but ultimately we like the guys in the office because they're working together, they're bouncing off each other. 00:39:50.800 --> 00:39:53.679 If one guy can't do it, then they'll pass it to somebody else. 00:39:54.079 --> 00:40:00.400 Um there's an there's an element of security as well, you know, that we're we're logging into people's networks and fixing their networks. 00:40:00.480 --> 00:40:02.000 I don't really want them doing that at home. 00:40:02.719 --> 00:40:02.880 Sure. 00:40:03.119 --> 00:40:06.719 Uh we have things in place to be able to offer that securely, but I'd still rather

know that. 00:40:07.760 --> 00:40:08.880 Yes, they'll have them in the office. 00:40:09.199 --> 00:40:11.920 Um, the sales team, that's the the most difficult thing. 00:40:12.000 --> 00:40:16.800 So the majority of our staff are based in in South Wales, in Cardiff, in the Cardiff office. 00:40:17.039 --> 00:40:21.039 So we want to grow that that area, we want to grow in Cardiff. 00:40:21.119 --> 00:40:22.639 We're very proud of being in Cardiff. 00:40:22.719 --> 00:40:26.559 I don't live in Cardiff, but I'm very proud of having a company there. 00:40:26.880 --> 00:40:32.800 Um, I can talk about why we did that in a bit, but um they're all in the office quite a lot. 00:40:33.119 --> 00:40:34.719 It's the salespeople who are out and about. 00:40:34.800 --> 00:40:37.760 Now they have to go and see customers and things like that as well. 00:40:37.920 --> 00:40:44.639 But if they're not seeing customers and they're working at home all the time, bad habits creep in. 00:40:44.800 --> 00:40:48.800 You can oh you know, this week I'm not seeing anybody, so you just stay at home a week. 00:40:48.960 --> 00:40:50.480 It's like that's not healthy. 00:40:50.639 --> 00:40:51.599 I don't think it's healthy. 00:40:51.679 --> 00:40:55.360 Yeah, I as somebody who could work wherever you wanted to work. 00:40:55.840 --> 00:41:01.199 Um my company at the end of the day, I don't have to come in if I don't want to, but I couldn't do that. 00:41:01.599 --> 00:41:02.719 Honestly, it's being at home. 00:41:02.880 --> 00:41:07.280 I've actually find it harder of being a business owner, being at home by yourself, stuck in your own head. 00:41:07.519 --> 00:41:08.639 We're in the office five days a week. 00:41:08.719 --> 00:41:09.760 Yeah, I can't work from home. 00:41:09.920 --> 00:41:10.559 I make crazy ideas. 00:41:10.719 --> 00:41:13.599 I'm cra I come up with crazy ideas on my home, they won't let me do that. 00:41:14.559 --> 00:41:20.559 So easy, other WhatsApp's in the easy well, I think I worked two days from home. 00:41:20.639 --> 00:41:21.119 I don't know why. 00:41:21.199 --> 00:41:22.559 I think we're in between office moves. 00:41:22.639 --> 00:41:25.840 Yeah, my missus came home and was like, please go back to an office somewhere. 00:41:26.000 --> 00:41:29.199 Like the house, I I thought I'd done all the dishes and done everything well. 00:41:29.280 --> 00:41:31.599 Yeah, like while I was working on the headset. 00:41:31.679 --> 00:41:32.880 Yeah, she was like, Everything's everywhere. 00:41:33.360 --> 00:41:34.559 Like, why is the toaster over there? 00:41:34.639 --> 00:41:35.199 Like, what are you doing? 00:41:35.280 --> 00:41:36.800 I was like, Put some trousers on and get out. 00:41:36.960 --> 00:41:37.599 Yeah, literally. 00:41:37.679 --> 00:41:38.800 It works. 00:41:39.280 --> 00:41:54.559 Yeah, it's um it is it's a different type of I think from from being in a buzzing office all the time, recruitment or sales in from your case, it's homeworking is a very, very different uh type of work, isn't it? 00:41:54.719 --> 00:42:15.519 But one thing we've stumbled across is people that have gone from school or university into COVID and had their first jobs in COVID in lockdown, that real struggle of transition coming into the office, yeah, and being in the office full time, like that sort of anxiety around travelling and anxiety around being in a big city and things like that. 00:42:15.599 --> 00:42:17.119 Is that something you've come across as well? 00:42:17.360 --> 00:42:18.000 Yeah, it happens. 00:42:18.079 --> 00:42:24.400 It happens to I think it happens to be supposed to it would happen, it would have happened to me if I was locked up all the time and not coming out. 00:42:24.480 --> 00:42:28.079 Then yeah, going in doing something like this, I'd be fearing it, you know. 00:42:29.519 --> 00:42:31.440 Yeah, and and I've seen it in the other stuff. 00:42:31.599 --> 00:42:36.000 So we have we have another office, we've got the Cardiff office, which is the the head office. 00:42:36.159 --> 00:42:40.320 We've just opened a Milton Keene's office um because it's near my house. 00:42:40.480 --> 00:42:43.760 Yeah, um, but it's easy for people to get to, you know, it's more central. 00:42:44.000 --> 00:42:45.280 We need to get into London. 00:42:45.519 --> 00:42:48.400 Usually it's half an hour on the train, you're in London. 00:42:48.719 --> 00:42:49.280 Part from today. 00:42:50.880 --> 00:42:56.800 Um you're you're in London and and you know, you're doing what you need to do, or you've got the M1 links there and stuff like that. 00:42:56.960 --> 00:43:17.760 So it's a good way to keep everybody in and it and keep you can Teams is brilliant, you know, that's fine, it works, but you you don't have the same conversations as when people come in the office, whether that's be you know, about what did you do at the weekend or you know what you what are you doing this weekend, or and then you automatically start talking about deals on top of that kind of thing, you get a lot more out of that. 00:43:18.000 --> 00:43:22.480 There's a real battle between companies and and uh employees at the moment, though. 00:43:22.559 --> 00:43:26.079 We find you know companies want people back in five days a week if they could. 00:43:26.159 --> 00:43:26.480 Yeah. 00:43:26.639 --> 00:43:34.079 Um, and you know, employees are so used to this remote working that's become such a big thing that they want to be at home five days a week. 00:43:34.320 --> 00:43:37.760 So there's a real battle, sort of I think there's a shift definitely happening. 00:43:38.079 --> 00:43:40.800 There's also an element of candidates we've speaking to lately. 00:43:40.960 --> 00:43:46.239 The companies that have gone fully remote, we're having candidates saying, No, I want to go into an office a couple of days a week. 00:43:46.480 --> 00:43:51.360 So it's like there's a real and I don't know if I'm allowed to say this or not, but it's an age thing.

00:43:52.000 --> 00:44:16.400 There's a clear generation that one wants to be in the office all the time, the other don't want to be in at all, and then there's an element of oh, let's do a bit of a Hybrid, but it tends to be if you told me this person without telling me their name and and and date of birth, for example, or without even telling me their I'd be able to roughly guess their age just based on yeah what what their hybrid requirements are to be honest. 00:44:16.559 --> 00:44:20.719 Typically, obviously it's not nailed on, but it's not it's not far off for sure. 00:44:21.920 --> 00:44:24.159 Holidays, do you get them often? 00:44:24.400 --> 00:44:24.639 No. 00:44:26.880 --> 00:44:28.800 I remember you saying what did you say the other day? 00:44:28.880 --> 00:44:30.320 It took you three days to actually switch off. 00:44:30.480 --> 00:44:32.400 Yeah, no, this is this is a massive thing for me at the moment. 00:44:32.480 --> 00:44:34.239 And then you had the guilt around it. 00:44:34.639 --> 00:44:38.320 I went um where to start with it. 00:44:38.480 --> 00:44:44.320 So last last so actually during lockdown, the whole world wanted to get camp fans. 00:44:44.480 --> 00:44:48.079 Everybody is like my YouTube thing is just about people building camp fans and things like that. 00:44:48.159 --> 00:44:54.480 So I was like, I'm gonna I'm gonna um I'm gonna build myself a camf van and and and and live in it. 00:44:54.639 --> 00:44:57.840 Uh but while living at home with my family, obviously, I can't just go off. 00:44:58.000 --> 00:45:12.559 But um so I last it was a couple of weeks ago, I went to I took it out for its first proper drive to France, and this was like this is the first proper holiday I've had in a long time. 00:45:12.639 --> 00:45:13.599 I've never done anything like this. 00:45:13.679 --> 00:45:21.840 This is this is an adventure for me, like just just just going somewhere, different country, driving on the other side of the road, and and and doing that was massive for me. 00:45:22.079 --> 00:45:29.199 Um and it took me probably three days to switch off. 00:45:29.280 --> 00:45:33.679 Like I I pulled up at this campsite, I was watching Ingam play one night, I've got a projector in there and everything. 00:45:33.760 --> 00:45:35.920 So it's probably it's not it's not I'm not slumming it. 00:45:36.000 --> 00:45:37.599 I've got you know Starlink in there. 00:45:37.840 --> 00:45:43.679 Yeah, I was well, I was gonna mention Starlink, so it was like a backup plan to be able to work, should you need to had my laptop? 00:45:44.239 --> 00:45:45.280 Did you work much, be honest? 00:45:45.440 --> 00:45:48.639 The laptop was put away, but obviously you can work from your phone all the time now, can't you? 00:45:48.800 --> 00:45:49.760 You can't escape. 00:45:50.000 --> 00:45:50.880 There's no escaping it, isn't it? 00:45:51.039 --> 00:46:03.360 No, but there there was a there was a point during that time where I was like sitting there watching the football, going, oh, this is fun, this is nice, and then you start thinking, you know, there's a bit of a lull in the game or something like that, and you start thinking, it's like probably should be doing something. 00:46:03.440 --> 00:46:05.039 I thought, hold on a second, I'm on holiday. 00:46:05.119 --> 00:46:06.000 Why should I be doing something? 00:46:06.079 --> 00:46:13.519 Why is there why have I got this feel feeling inside me that thinks I always have to be moving forward, I always have to be progressing the company. 00:46:14.880 --> 00:46:20.239 The next question: what is it that just makes it so hard to for founders to not sit still? 00:46:20.400 --> 00:46:22.800 I don't think I'm the same, and it drives him insane. 00:46:22.880 --> 00:46:24.880 And he's that's he's similar, not as bad. 00:46:24.960 --> 00:46:27.199 He can switch off a little bit, which I'm jealous of. 00:46:27.440 --> 00:46:28.639 But what is it? 00:46:28.719 --> 00:46:32.079 Like, because I can't give you the answer, I don't know what it is, but just constantly. 00:46:32.320 --> 00:46:36.719 I think it's I don't think it's necessarily negative, but it did strike me as a little bit sad. 00:46:36.960 --> 00:46:38.800 I was like, why do that? 00:46:38.880 --> 00:46:40.400 Yeah, why can't why can't I switch off? 00:46:40.480 --> 00:46:41.360 Why can't I enjoy something? 00:46:41.519 --> 00:46:42.639 What what is relaxing? 00:46:42.880 --> 00:46:49.599 And I was like, I've just I'll cook some food, then I'm gonna watch some football, and I know maybe I'll listen to some music or whatever. 00:46:49.760 --> 00:46:52.880 And I and I was like, Yeah, that's that's nice, that's something fun to do. 00:46:52.960 --> 00:46:53.920 That's what you do when you're relaxing. 00:46:54.559 --> 00:46:55.519 That's what normal people do. 00:46:55.599 --> 00:46:57.119 Yeah, exactly. 00:46:57.440 --> 00:46:59.920 I couldn't believe it took me three days to get to the point where I was feeling right. 00:47:00.079 --> 00:47:01.039 I feel great after it. 00:47:01.199 --> 00:47:04.239 When I came back, um I said to you, didn't I? 00:47:04.400 --> 00:47:08.480 I said, I want to I want to bottle some of that up and get that into every day. 00:47:08.639 --> 00:47:11.760 I w I don't want to get to the point where it's always a grind. 00:47:11.920 --> 00:47:21.920 Um, there's another part of that as well, which which I I learned about while I was away, because you get time to think, you know, I was travelling, it was 500 odd miles, whatever I did one day, and you think a lot. 00:47:22.079 --> 00:47:27.280 You can only listen to so much Spotify and it's a long playlist, yeah, exactly. 00:47:27.360 --> 00:47:28.480 So a lot of singing. 00:47:28.639 --> 00:47:34.719 Um when you start the company, it's all you're basically you're just selling yourself, you're putting yourself out there. 00:47:34.800 --> 00:47:36.079 This is the way I want to do things. 00:47:36.320 --> 00:47:41.599 As the

company's grown, that can get, if you're not careful, can get lost. 00:47:41.679 --> 00:47:48.559 You get caught in process, you get caught in um people coming to you going, we need to do this, we need to do this, we need to do this, this is a priority. 00:47:49.119 --> 00:47:57.280 And especially in our industry where I've got these this services team where it's all very much like IT, this is how it's done, yeah, this is how you have to do it. 00:47:57.440 --> 00:48:00.239 I'm a salesperson, and I don't know, you guys are probably the same. 00:48:00.320 --> 00:48:05.199 You have your way of doing things that may not be textbook, but you have you are a bit more flexible with those things. 00:48:05.519 --> 00:48:06.800 We work in completely different ways. 00:48:07.039 --> 00:48:08.159 Well, we've got to get the same results. 00:48:08.320 --> 00:48:22.480 Yeah, so Dave and I, he's on the technical side, for example, and sometimes when I get feel I'm getting just dragged into looking at ISO 27001 accreditations and cyber essentials and pay scales and tax and all this, and I go, Where's where where am I? 00:48:22.559 --> 00:48:23.119 Where have I gone? 00:48:23.199 --> 00:48:29.119 Where's the guy that where's the where's the guy that started this with the passion and the energy and the excitement and the ideas? 00:48:29.360 --> 00:48:32.320 If I lose that, then does Optech fail? 00:48:32.480 --> 00:48:34.000 Because that's what I started on. 00:48:34.159 --> 00:48:35.760 So that was another thing I picked up on. 00:48:35.840 --> 00:48:44.000 I wanted and it's kind of the same what you guys were saying, um, around that you get so caught in the weeds all the time running a business, you need to get away from that. 00:48:44.079 --> 00:48:45.599 You can't grow your business until you get away from that. 00:48:45.679 --> 00:48:47.519 And I'm only saying the small stuff, isn't it? 00:48:47.840 --> 00:48:55.920 It's just you get so hung up on like a drop for us, it'd be a dropout, and for you it'd probably be like, I'm gonna losing out on a deal, and you think the world's closing on you. 00:48:56.239 --> 00:48:58.159 Realistically, that's just how it works, isn't it? 00:48:58.320 --> 00:49:00.079 Yeah, that's that's less so now. 00:49:00.159 --> 00:49:03.280 But it's also you you guys said yourself, you both hold a number on your head. 00:49:03.360 --> 00:49:05.199 I have I have a number on my head still. 00:49:05.599 --> 00:49:08.559 We need to, I I believe at some point we need to get away from that. 00:49:08.639 --> 00:49:11.519 I think you're always gonna have to do something as a as a small business, you know. 00:49:11.679 --> 00:49:14.880 20 people, I still have to bring money and I still have to cover costs. 00:49:15.119 --> 00:49:18.159 But it's I imagine it's hard to let let go of that as well in the same way. 00:49:18.559 --> 00:49:18.960 I'm the top dog. 00:49:19.119 --> 00:49:20.400 I like I love being the top salesperson. 00:49:20.880 --> 00:49:23.280 You you started it and it was you know, you were selling yourself. 00:49:23.360 --> 00:49:29.119 But at some point when the growth happens, you have to sort of get away from it being you and it being the business. 00:49:29.440 --> 00:49:31.360 You have to learn, you have to learn who you are again as well. 00:49:31.519 --> 00:49:37.519 I'll be honest though, that the day that someone builds more than me or you in a month, I will be very upset. 00:49:37.760 --> 00:49:42.880 Like if there's a when there's a third person who does really well, I'm gonna I'm not gonna take it well. 00:49:42.960 --> 00:49:44.079 I think you'll be upset. 00:49:45.760 --> 00:49:47.440 Brilliant, I'm telling you, I'll be upset. 00:49:47.599 --> 00:49:48.480 You get used to it quick. 00:49:48.639 --> 00:49:50.239 It's an ego thing, absolutely. 00:49:50.400 --> 00:49:54.400 But I want it to happen, but at the same time, that first time I will be not very happy. 00:49:54.719 --> 00:49:56.000 I'll be absolutely delighted. 00:49:56.320 --> 00:50:08.880 I've had it for years and I've always been the top, but but recently, the this this year, the with the way the sales team because they've got such a good product to sell, because they're backed by such a good team, it's so easy to sell. 00:50:08.960 --> 00:50:10.800 If you're given the opportunity, it's very easy to sell. 00:50:10.880 --> 00:50:12.800 It's getting those opportunities, that's the hard bit. 00:50:13.039 --> 00:50:16.960 Yeah, um, so yeah, it's a nice feeling when somebody overtakes you. 00:50:17.199 --> 00:50:18.320 But you're you're still the boy. 00:50:18.719 --> 00:50:21.519 I guarantee it will be nice, but I don't it will be an ego here. 00:50:22.480 --> 00:50:24.079 You're still paying the wages, yeah. 00:50:24.239 --> 00:50:24.559 True. 00:50:24.719 --> 00:50:25.039 I know. 00:50:25.199 --> 00:50:26.480 I think it'd be brilliant, honestly. 00:50:26.719 --> 00:50:27.199 I can't wait. 00:50:27.920 --> 00:50:28.639 Yeah, you go. 00:50:29.440 --> 00:50:34.079 What does success look like to you and to optech over the next five years? 00:50:34.480 --> 00:50:35.440 It's a generic question. 00:50:35.760 --> 00:50:35.920 I know. 00:50:38.239 --> 00:50:47.280 Um, I I to be fair, again, this this we're coming to the end of our financial year at the moment, and it's been our best year to date. 00:50:47.440 --> 00:50:50.320 We've got some really strong partnerships with some other resellers. 00:50:50.559 --> 00:50:52.320 We want to continue to grow on that. 00:50:52.639 --> 00:50:57.920 We are obviously growing our team, so I want the team to continue to grow. 00:50:58.320 --> 00:51:08.000 Um and this is probably gonna be the first year coming up where we're gonna have proper financial targets and going like we did this, we turned over this. 00:51:08.159 --> 00:51:12.079 I don't really care too much about revenue, but it's still a good target to look at and keep growing at. 00:51:12.480 --> 00:51:25.360 Um,

and I think for the last few years, this is this is how naive uh I am as a business owner or as a director or CEO, whatever, is that we all we've done is just continue to do hard, just work hard, work hard, work hard, work hard. 00:51:25.679 --> 00:51:31.760 And luckily, well not luckily, it's from the work hard work, but it every year there's been an increase in profit, there's been an increase in revenue. 00:51:32.000 --> 00:51:33.119 I just want that to keep going. 00:51:33.360 --> 00:51:42.000 But this coming year and the the years following, now we've got all that data, now we've got the team in place, we've got the product in place, now we're growing a sales team. 00:51:42.400 --> 00:51:45.199 I want to see that shoot up because we'll focus on it. 00:51:46.000 --> 00:51:53.440 It happened, it happened you know, by accident, not accidentally, it was you know, it happened by proxy of the hard work we were doing at the time. 00:51:53.840 --> 00:52:01.840 But we want to I want to see what happens if we focus on that, increasing that, increasing the amount of customers we've got, um and seeing where we can go with that. 00:52:01.920 --> 00:52:04.320 So it's just more growth really over the next five years. 00:52:04.719 --> 00:52:05.360 Yeah, fair. 00:52:05.519 --> 00:52:16.719 And I suppose the flip side of the generic question is if you were starting again or if it was you starting ten years ago, what is the uh number one bit of advice you'd give yourself? 00:52:17.599 --> 00:52:22.800 Just believe in in yourself, trust yourself because that's what I did that that time round and get there, just keep pushing. 00:52:23.039 --> 00:52:25.119 And also it's not gonna be smooth. 00:52:25.440 --> 00:52:31.440 There's gonna be issues, there's gonna be issues, but ultimately every every problem that comes up is gonna be an opportunity. 00:52:31.519 --> 00:52:34.000 You if you look at it like that in sales, that's the way I would look at it. 00:52:34.079 --> 00:52:41.760 Yeah, you know, if you if something goes wrong with a customer, for example, and there's a problem, I look at it and go, Well, I'm speaking to him now. 00:52:41.840 --> 00:52:43.119 He's replying to my emails, yeah. 00:52:43.199 --> 00:52:46.880 You know, I've got I've got an opportunity here to to put this right, to make this good. 00:52:47.119 --> 00:52:52.960 So, yeah, all these all everything that that that can happen can be fixed. 00:52:53.039 --> 00:52:55.199 Yeah as long as you're not breaking any laws, obviously. 00:52:55.519 --> 00:52:56.400 Keep it legit. 00:52:56.480 --> 00:52:57.119 Yeah. 00:52:57.599 --> 00:53:00.000 That wouldn't be my that wasn't my butt 10 years ago. 00:53:00.159 --> 00:53:00.719 Keep it legit. 00:53:00.960 --> 00:53:02.079 Don't break any laws. 00:53:02.639 --> 00:53:04.880 Well was it break the laws 10 years ago, wasn't it? 00:53:05.199 --> 00:53:08.320 I think the underlying statement was nothing's as bad as it first seemed. 00:53:08.480 --> 00:53:08.960 Yeah, yeah. 00:53:10.079 --> 00:53:10.400 There you go. 00:53:10.639 --> 00:53:12.320 I've done GPT for that for you. 00:53:13.440 --> 00:53:15.920 I don't know about you, but I've thoroughly enjoyed the last hour or so. 00:53:16.079 --> 00:53:17.360 Yeah, it's gone really quickly. 00:53:17.840 --> 00:53:22.079 Thank you for for joining us and uh let's go for a beer. 00:53:22.320 --> 00:53:23.039 Let's do it. 00:53:23.199 --> 00:53:24.079 Excellent.

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