Full Transcript for Navigating Change and Preparing Future Leaders With Mark Leppard MBE

personal perspective, I think I've become a little bit more tolerant. 00:02:46.222 --> 00:02:55.104 I don't think I was intolerant, but I think I now look at things, thinking I don't necessarily know what's going on inside somebody. 00:02:55.104 --> 00:03:08.486 And I think during COVID, when people were in their own home for a long period of time, some some behaved, acted, were impacted differently from what you may have seen of them prior to COVID. 00:03:08.486 --> 00:03:16.390 So now in my mind, when we're faced with a challenging situation with an individual, I often think of I don't know what's going on inside. 00:03:16.390 --> 00:03:23.806 I need to try and scrape away at that a little bit more than taking what's on the surface, and I think that's the biggest change for me in how I look at things. 00:03:23.806 --> 00:03:30.752 Whether that impacts others I don't know, but it definitely is another layer of thinking for me when I'm dealing with something. 00:03:32.360 --> 00:03:42.013 And in terms of your own personal life, have you changed anything in the last two to three years? 00:03:42.514 --> 00:03:49.781 that's significant two to three years. 00:03:49.781 --> 00:03:50.361 That's, you know, significant. 00:03:50.361 --> 00:04:01.651 Um, you know I always talk about looking after yourself and I and I I don't feel selfish saying that um, I do feel we need to make even more of a conscious effort for that, and that's to impact others as well. 00:04:01.651 --> 00:04:08.969 So, taking the selfish bit away, which I don't think it is selfish, but looking after yourself will now enable you to look after others. 00:04:08.969 --> 00:04:29.714 And again, I think, as you, you've used the time frame two to three years when we were going through covid, we really had to look after ourselves because we were isolated from some of the support around us, um, and I think not that that's a good thing, but I think it's enabled people maybe to understand that there are coping mechanisms that you have yourself, that you can control. 00:04:29.714 --> 00:04:35.112 Previously we may have ignored them, thinking there's help elsewhere or I'll just muddle on. 00:04:36.281 --> 00:04:39.545 For me, I think that self-care. 00:04:39.545 --> 00:04:42.269 I put a post out last week about emails. 00:04:42.269 --> 00:04:53.910 I know you know you commented and I am far from perfect on this or far from the finished article, but I think we need I now, since COVID, I now regularly try and check what my behaviors are. 00:04:53.910 --> 00:04:56.600 Are they where I want them to be in terms of self-care. 00:04:56.600 --> 00:05:03.706 I think before I'd have just smashed through everything and not really reflected back on self-care I'm not talking about others, but on the self-care. 00:05:03.706 --> 00:05:05.369 I'm not talking about others but on the self-care. 00:05:05.369 --> 00:05:08.173 So, asking about change for me, I think I make a conscious effort. 00:05:08.173 --> 00:05:10.788 I get it wrong, but I make a conscious effort to check in regularly. 00:05:10.788 --> 00:05:14.089 Am I still going the direction I should be in looking after myself? 00:05:14.879 --> 00:05:15.865 Yeah, I like that. 00:05:15.865 --> 00:05:26.153 So recently I've been doing a lot of thinking about legacy and how do you want to leave a place? 00:05:26.153 --> 00:05:29.749 How do you want to be remembered? 00:05:29.749 --> 00:05:45.345 I'm not talking about dying per se, but when you move from one place to the other, how do you want people to think of what you've done, the body of work that you have produced, the impact that you have? 00:05:45.345 --> 00:05:55.754 So I'm going to ask you the question, mark when you walk away from being a headmaster, how do you want to be remembered? 00:05:59.560 --> 00:06:02.848 Yeah, that's a great question Pertinent at the moment. 00:06:02.848 --> 00:06:07.805 As you know, both of us have recently suffered loss, so that's about legacy as well. 00:06:07.805 --> 00:06:12.394 It's interesting. 00:06:12.394 --> 00:06:20.795 I really am not into when people say about a legacy and you know there's signposts for your legacy and things around the place. 00:06:20.795 --> 00:06:23.226 That really genuinely doesn't bother me. 00:06:23.226 --> 00:06:31.971 I think as heads of school or as working in a school, we're blessed that we see our legacy every day when returning students come back. 00:06:32.411 --> 00:06:38.343 If a student comes back and talks to you in a positive way or talks to their friends in a positive way, that that's your real legacy. 00:06:38.343 --> 00:06:38.745 For me. 00:06:38.745 --> 00:06:40.672 You've had an impact along the way. 00:06:40.672 --> 00:06:45.269 So for me, if I'm walking down the street we've recently bought a house in Paul and if I'm walking down the street, we've recently bought a house in Paul. 00:06:45.269 --> 00:06:56.348 And if I'm walking down the street in Paul and I bump into an ex-student of mine whatever school I've taught at and they come up and say hello, for me that's your legacy, because they've made a conscious effort to come and touch base with you. 00:06:56.348 --> 00:07:06.762 You must have had an impact that after so many years, they still want to talk to you In school students, not are forced to talk to you. 00:07:06.783 --> 00:07:09.132 Um, in school students not a force to talk to you, but you're in the same environment, so that's slightly different. 00:07:09.132 --> 00:07:24.867 But for me, walking down the street and bumping into it, either an ex-staff member, an ex-parent, an ex-governor or, most importantly, an ex-student, and they come up and say hello and talk about where they are in their life, for me that's that's true legacy, um, and I'd be really proud if, if, when I walk, that happens. 00:07:24.867 --> 00:07:26.822 That would be me very, very fulfilled. 00:07:27.362 --> 00:07:28.665 Yeah, I like that. 00:07:28.665 --> 00:07:36.504 It's almost

like the legacy starts now and it's not dependent on whether you leave or not. 00:07:36.504 --> 00:07:44.067 You're here now and what you're doing now is shown by how people respond to you in the moment. 00:07:44.067 --> 00:07:45.911 That's a fresh perspective on that. 00:07:45.911 --> 00:07:52.012 Talk to me about preparing a way for leaders coming through. 00:07:52.012 --> 00:07:53.201 So you. 00:07:53.201 --> 00:07:59.810 It sounds like I'm retiring you, but I'm not, because I've got plans for you, mark, regarding my kids. 00:07:59.810 --> 00:08:01.846 I keep saying that. 00:08:01.865 --> 00:08:16.396 I've got plans You've got to help with my kids, but when you think of the next crop of leaders, what can leaders in your position do to help to bring them up? 00:08:17.721 --> 00:08:25.687 I'm really glad you've asked that, lisa, because we hear all the concerns about teacher shortage and if there's teacher shortage there's going to be leader shortage. 00:08:25.687 --> 00:08:27.887 You know there's a natural sort of line. 00:08:27.887 --> 00:08:35.732 But I think there's a lot we can do and I think there's positives out there as well as maybe the press grabbing negatives. 00:08:35.732 --> 00:08:43.173 So for me there's two parts to a legacy of like leadership legacy or, you know, succession planning, for example. 00:08:43.173 --> 00:08:49.610 Number one we have to plan our exit so that we are preparing those around us for that time. 00:08:49.610 --> 00:08:52.263 It's not just the case of I'm turning the lights out, I'm going. 00:08:52.263 --> 00:08:54.027 I think we need to look. 00:08:54.027 --> 00:08:57.921 I feel I'm a strong leader, but that's for other people to decide. 00:08:57.921 --> 00:09:02.807 But the b-sac should continue regardless of who's leading it. 00:09:02.807 --> 00:09:09.222 I'm just a cog on it so far, 55 year journey, hopefully a cock moving in a positive direction. 00:09:09.222 --> 00:09:23.768 So I think that momentum we should plan for the day when mark leppard retires or walks away or whatever it is, and it's not just me but every head should be planning when they walk away that they're not leaving a void behind them. 00:09:23.768 --> 00:09:27.053 So we do a lot of succession planning. 00:09:27.053 --> 00:09:33.923 We do succession planning for every aspect of leadership in the school. 00:09:33.923 --> 00:09:55.648 So I know I've worked with my HR department and my chair to put together a whole pack of what the next leader to take over BSAC should look like, who we speak to, what recruitment companies we use, so that if I were to walk away, there's a pack in the safe that people say right, we've got a starting point I think we should be giving out. 00:09:55.807 --> 00:10:00.349 I take every one of my leadership team to board meetings at different times and they present. 00:10:00.349 --> 00:10:05.086 I remember I became leader at Doha College and there was no succession plan. 00:10:05.086 --> 00:10:07.206 It was a fairly

brutal transition. 00:10:07.206 --> 00:10:10.017 I just happened to be fortunate to be put in place. 00:10:10.017 --> 00:10:13.605 But my first ever board meeting was my first board meeting as head. 00:10:13.605 --> 00:10:15.389 I had no experience before that. 00:10:15.389 --> 00:10:17.100 I remember it still. 00:10:17.100 --> 00:10:19.950 I get tingles on the back of my neck. 00:10:19.950 --> 00:10:20.952 I've worked with Post-its. 00:10:20.952 --> 00:10:21.936 There's one here. 00:10:23.058 --> 00:10:25.950 I went into my first finance board meeting. 00:10:25.950 --> 00:10:30.126 I have no financial background whatsoever and I was asked to present a budget. 00:10:30.126 --> 00:10:41.744 At the time I had no head of accounts and I literally went in with a post-it note saying 75% of school income spent on staff, 20% on this, and they laughed at me. 00:10:41.744 --> 00:10:43.861 They said you're the head, what are you doing? 00:10:43.861 --> 00:10:44.001 And I? 00:10:44.001 --> 00:10:47.965 I said I was really out of my debt, so there was no succession planning. 00:10:47.965 --> 00:10:52.807 Fortunately, I had a chair who put me in place and said we've put mark in place at short notice. 00:10:52.807 --> 00:10:55.293 We should be supporting him, not ridiculing him. 00:10:55.293 --> 00:11:05.847 We should be helping him with our expertise of how we put our finances together, not expecting just because you got the title, you know the job and that's the other thing you you know. 00:11:05.847 --> 00:11:08.952 I've got a new head of year started at the start of this year. 00:11:09.634 --> 00:11:13.417 Last year they weren't ahead of year so effectively, over a holiday, they've suddenly got the job. 00:11:13.417 --> 00:11:14.400 Do they know every aspect? 00:11:14.400 --> 00:11:18.269 No, does everybody who looks at them think they have every aspect of the job? 00:11:18.269 --> 00:11:24.950 Yes, so we need to mentor, we need to protect, we need to guide, we need to bring staff through that. 00:11:24.950 --> 00:11:28.644 There's a succession plan for every position in the school. 00:11:28.644 --> 00:11:29.767 Now, that's not easy. 00:11:29.767 --> 00:11:31.611 Have we got it right at the moment? 00:11:31.611 --> 00:11:33.105 No, but is it something we're working on? 00:11:33.105 --> 00:11:40.032 Yes, we should be asking the exact same question you just asked when that person goes, what's the next plan? 00:11:40.032 --> 00:11:46.412 And it's not pushing them out the door, it's making sure they can go in a positive, seamless way and the students don't suffer. 00:11:46.412 --> 00:11:48.807 For me, that's really, really important. 00:11:50.500 --> 00:11:57.251 Again, I'm not rushing you, mark, but for Mark, what does life after headship look like? 00:11:58.903 --> 00:12:00.298 I don't take it, you're rushing me, lisa. 00:12:01.462 --> 00:12:04.350 I swear people, I'm not rushing him, I do. 00:12:04.350 --> 00:12:12.708 I want him to remain there I want him to remain there for at least another five years yeah, I'm 55. 00:12:13.190 --> 00:12:17.104 I spoke to my chair last week and I said I've no plans on rushing away. 00:12:17.104 --> 00:12:18.486 I genuinely love my job. 00:12:18.486 --> 00:12:27.962 I'm not saying it because I'm on a podcast, for you people know, I genuinely I get up every morning and I'm getting to work because it's it's, I'm fulfilled with that. 00:12:27.962 --> 00:12:30.769 So it's it's, and I'm not using the cliche, it's not a job. 00:12:30.769 --> 00:12:32.621 It is a job, but I love this job. 00:12:32.621 --> 00:12:34.306 I really do, and I love, I love. 00:12:34.306 --> 00:12:41.650 I've just rushed from one meeting to you and I've chatted to three kids along the way about their exams and it put a spring in my step. 00:12:41.650 --> 00:12:43.062 You know, I was prepared for that. 00:12:43.062 --> 00:12:44.727 So I'm not rushing away. 00:12:44.727 --> 00:12:47.403 But, yeah, afterwards I haven't really got a plan. 00:12:47.403 --> 00:12:51.211 I didn't have a plan to be head either, but I haven't got anything set. 00:12:51.211 --> 00:13:05.390 But what I would like to do, something I'm really keen to think about, is I'd love to help schools if, if they found I would be of any value on not on inspections, I do that but on school improvement work. 00:13:05.390 --> 00:13:14.019 You know where the head has a really, you know, difficult issue, um, and they can't see the wood for the trees, as as I regularly can't. 00:13:14.019 --> 00:13:16.018 But you have someone you can call and say can't see the wood for the trees, as I regularly can't. 00:13:16.018 --> 00:13:18.243 But you have someone you can call and say can I just talk through this with you? 00:13:18.243 --> 00:13:20.264 Can, can I just try and unpick it? 00:13:20.264 --> 00:13:25.860 And we know as leaders the answers with the leader, but sometimes they can't unpick it. 00:13:25.860 --> 00:13:34.054 So I'd love to do some school improvement work where they have targets from an inspection of how they can then unpick that and implement it. 00:13:34.054 --> 00:13:39.238 Or just be it on the end of a phone call to say, mark, I'm dealing with this, you. 00:13:39.477 --> 00:13:42.672 I think we shouldn't write off experience. 00:13:42.672 --> 00:13:48.993 It's, it's a wealth of experience lots of leaders have, but the minute they finish in school, is it utilized? 00:13:48.993 --> 00:14:06.517 Um, there's a book I've been reading about demotion and instead of seeing as a positive, where you take steps back as you go towards the end of your career, but your mind and your experience is utilized Just, you know, there's a couple of companies in America that do it and I just think that's interesting. 00:14:06.517 --> 00:14:11.090 You take a lesser role, but you've still captured that person's mind and experience. 00:14:11.090 --> 00:14:14.400 And I think we talk about teacher shortage, leadership shortage. 00:14:14.400 -->

00:14:21.417 Surely there's some great expertise out there that has turned the lights out, but then we haven't pulled them back in or let them go a bit early, those sort of things. 00:14:21.417 --> 00:14:25.899 I think there's a lot of work to be done around that area when you talk about teacher shortage. 00:14:25.958 --> 00:14:28.750 I want to, I want to, I want to just unpack just a little bit. 00:14:28.750 --> 00:14:32.495 I'm really conscious of that no, no, you carry on what's what's? 00:14:32.495 --> 00:14:35.216 What do you think ising? 00:14:35.216 --> 00:14:45.966 And I know people are going to give us the cliche sort of salaries, but really, mark, what else, apart from salaries, is fueling this real teacher shortage that we all hear about? 00:14:47.590 --> 00:14:52.090 Yeah, I'm not sure it is salaries, if I'm absolutely honest. 00:14:52.090 --> 00:14:58.380 I think in some instances of course it will be, but I don't think people go into teaching to to become a, you know, a millionaire. 00:14:58.380 --> 00:14:59.912 I think you go in for a different reason. 00:14:59.912 --> 00:15:12.756 Um, I think some of it is how uh staff are treated, both in terms of by schools, by students, by parents. 00:15:12.756 --> 00:15:16.663 Where that is a positive interaction, I think people want to stay in the industry. 00:15:16.663 --> 00:15:19.154 Where it's a negative interaction, I think people want to get out. 00:15:19.154 --> 00:15:27.942 Just as the same if you were a policeman, if you were a lawyer and you've had negative interactions every day, that's going to force you away. 00:15:27.942 --> 00:15:43.409 And I do think some schools I'll talk about UK I think standards have slipped in some, and I'm not necessarily talking about the, the teacher, I just think some of the um discipline within schools. 00:15:43.570 --> 00:15:50.072 There's a fear of disciplining students for the kickback maybe from some parents, and I think that that doesn't help. 00:15:50.072 --> 00:15:55.091 You know, imagine a young teacher with not a lot of uh experience behind them and then being shouted at. 00:15:55.091 --> 00:15:58.443 You know, we, some of the areas we've come from where there's, you know, imagine a young teacher with not a lot of uh experience behind them and then being shouted at. 00:15:58.443 --> 00:16:04.220 You know, we some of the areas we've come from where there's, you know, knife crime in school and you think, and that's, that's happening. 00:16:04.220 --> 00:16:09.139 You know and I'm not saying it's everywhere but are you going to go and work in that type of school? 00:16:09.139 --> 00:16:10.711 It's not going to be the most attractive to go to. 00:16:10.711 --> 00:16:19.365 I think you have a different purpose if you're going to that school and a great purpose, but it's not necessarily going to attract the very best teacher or the widest field. 00:16:19.365 --> 00:16:20.875 Let's say the widest field is probably a better. 00:16:20.875 --> 00:16:24.611 It's going to be very niche and I think those sort of things impact. 00:16:24.611 --> 00:16:33.597 Um, I think COVID is going to have an impact on teaching because a lot of other industries where teaching the school holidays was seen as a huge benefit. 00:16:34.759 --> 00:16:38.876 Now my son's going into work at Deloitte, which has previously been described. 00:16:38.876 --> 00:16:44.162 As you know, they sweat you dry and he's going to be doing three days at home, two days in the office. 00:16:44.162 --> 00:16:55.400 You know, I think some of the careers that were seen as very corporate and nine to five or nine to very long hours and no flexibility. 00:16:55.400 --> 00:17:05.451 This covid has now created some flexibility in sectors and I think where previously teaching with some of the positive holidays that you had, I think. 00:17:05.451 --> 00:17:10.872 I think not that they're not, but I think they're not seen as outstanding as they were before. 00:17:10.872 --> 00:17:12.617 So I think there's multiple factors. 00:17:12.617 --> 00:17:18.795 Um, obviously pay will come in, but I think terms and conditions in terms of how you're treated in school and the respect you have. 00:17:18.855 --> 00:17:24.300 If you look at Finland, teaching career is seen as a very high-level career. 00:17:24.300 --> 00:17:29.117 I don't think the UK government treats it as it should be, the same as they don't with healthcare. 00:17:29.117 --> 00:17:48.971 We could talk all day about that, but I genuinely think if you were a government that had longer than a four to eight year lifespan which not many do in the UK you'd have a vision of 50 years and you'd be putting that in place and you'd be making sure that you are succession planning. 00:17:48.971 --> 00:17:54.733 But most of it now I must admit I'm disillusioned is sort of vote grabbing and short term and that that can't be education. 00:17:54.733 --> 00:17:58.001 That can't be education, that can't be health care, that can't be those sort of sectors. 00:17:58.789 --> 00:18:00.071 Yeah, no, I agree with you. 00:18:00.071 --> 00:18:02.958 Do you think the UK teacher shortage? 00:18:02.958 --> 00:18:06.243 Do you think the international schools have a blame in that? 00:18:08.490 --> 00:18:14.103 It's a good question, partly because it may be more attractive to work overseas in some place. 00:18:14.103 --> 00:18:17.269 Because it may be more attractive to work overseas in some place. 00:18:17.269 --> 00:18:21.121 But then I say, well, if I was losing students or staff to another school because it was more attractive, I'd try and make mine more attractive. 00:18:21.121 --> 00:18:26.782 So I think you can't just blame one end saying that's happening. 00:18:26.782 --> 00:18:28.596 You've got to be saying, well, why is it not happening here? 00:18:28.596 --> 00:18:30.877 Or what can we do to reverse that? 00:18:30.877 --> 00:18:40.681 I also don't think you know you talked about when Mark finishes, but I've

got lots of't think you know you talked about when mark finishes, but I've got lots of teachers you know, maybe in their 50s, who are thinking of finishing here. 00:18:40.681 --> 00:18:45.336 They've still got 10, 15 years of great experience teaching to give. 00:18:45.336 --> 00:18:48.022 Why aren't they being pulled back to the uk? 00:18:48.022 --> 00:18:49.092 Why is that not attractive? 00:18:49.092 --> 00:18:49.794 And I said so. 00:18:49.814 --> 00:18:58.439 I think there is a shortage, but I think there's a counter to that shortage that hasn't been tapped into and I think there's a lot of teachers with. 00:18:58.439 --> 00:19:11.837 You know I would love my children, if they were in the uk, or my grandchildren in the uk, to be being taught by a teacher who's basically trained, you know, wherever, taught in the uk but taught overseas and bring that richness back. 00:19:11.837 --> 00:19:13.422 Surely that's got to be great. 00:19:13.422 --> 00:19:24.698 But I don't know if there's that pull effect at the moment and it's not just salaries and tax, because there's countries where people are teaching, where there is all those taxes and similar things, but they're still going overseas. 00:19:24.698 --> 00:19:37.878 I think we've got to have a mechanism to attract people experience people back into teaching who have been overseas, and it won't solve a shortage, but it certainly addressed some of it yeah, I do agree with you. 00:19:37.939 --> 00:19:50.381 I think previously and I don't know if it's changing but previously people thought when you go overseas, you're really just having a great, wonderful beach holiday and you you're of no benefit when you come back. 00:19:50.381 --> 00:19:59.015 But I think they're so wrong, um, and they're, they're out, they really are missing out on some great teachers who could come back and help. 00:19:59.015 --> 00:20:12.153 Earlier in the conversation we talked about, you know that leader who's probably needing someone to talk to them about where they go, not being able to see the woods from the trees. 00:20:12.153 --> 00:20:24.202 Tell me, what would you say to someone who's probably stepping into headship and they've inherited a school where the succession planning was dreadful. 00:20:24.202 --> 00:20:30.222 They're actually a new hire into that school and they've come in and it's just a complete shock. 00:20:30.222 --> 00:20:32.255 What would you advise them? 00:20:32.255 --> 00:20:33.519 Where should they start? 00:20:34.010 --> 00:20:41.471 Yeah, no, that's a really, that's a really good point and I don't think you have to necessarily be new to headship to suffer those things. 00:20:41.471 --> 00:20:43.894 It could be a new context, it could be a new challenge. 00:20:43.894 --> 00:20:54.315 I I, I was on the phone last week to a colleague of a school here, um, who I knew was going through quite a tough time in their own school. 00:20:54.315 --> 00:21:00.319 And any parents of the schools will see us as rivals. 00:21:00.319 --> 00:21:13.534 We're rivals on the sports field and I think quite often the external faces and I call parents external, looking in often see schools as competitors. 00:21:13.534 --> 00:21:15.037 I see them as collaborators. 00:21:15.037 --> 00:21:18.884 We can share CPD, we can share lots of things. 00:21:18.884 --> 00:21:23.347 The competition is on the sports field or whatever you know, and at the end of the day the final whistle goes. 00:21:23.347 --> 00:21:29.159 I can guarantee most heads do not lose a wink of sleep if they've lost their football match to their local rivals. 00:21:29.159 --> 00:21:35.381 But it's not that it's not important, but it's not as much a rivalry as people think beyond the sports field. 00:21:35.381 --> 00:21:39.180 So the head was, I thought was possibly struggling. 00:21:39.180 --> 00:21:43.561 So I called Deborah at BSME and they're a BSME CEO. 00:21:43.561 --> 00:21:45.617 I said can you just check in on them, make sure they're OK? 00:21:45.617 --> 00:21:48.739 I gave them a call, not that we can solve anything. 00:21:48.778 --> 00:21:54.555 But I think a head coming into a challenging situation it doesn't have to be new situation, lisa leader, it could be. 00:21:54.555 --> 00:22:06.479 I could be facing it tomorrow, having colleagues who are not in the school but in the same profession with similar experience, having that as a network. 00:22:06.479 --> 00:22:14.980 You know, I have a whatsapp group of local Abu Dhabi heads and it's priceless for me and and we you know, has anyone seen this regulation? 00:22:14.980 --> 00:22:16.523 Has anyone had to deal with this? 00:22:16.523 --> 00:22:18.532 And someone will. 00:22:18.532 --> 00:22:21.602 If not had the same situation, had a similar situation. 00:22:21.602 --> 00:22:29.635 So for me, as a new head or as a current serving head, but new in an area definitely network with your other schools. 00:22:29.635 --> 00:22:30.980 It's invaluable. 00:22:32.233 --> 00:22:39.109 Give people like yourself a call, who's in the educational circuit, but not necessarily in a school, and say, lisa, you're a connector as well, you know. 00:22:39.109 --> 00:22:40.974 You'll say, actually, I know such and such. 00:22:40.974 --> 00:22:43.662 They might be able to help you pull those resources. 00:22:43.662 --> 00:22:45.673 They're not advertised. 00:22:45.673 --> 00:22:56.871 Maybe we should advertise them, I don't know, but they are, they are there and I think using that, building that network, is key to I was going to say surviving as head is over on a survival island or something. 00:22:56.871 --> 00:23:04.061 It's not that bad, but coping as a head and getting over the bits at the time you think is the end of the world. 00:23:04.061 --> 00:23:09.640 Having a colleague on the end of the phone is priceless and I've benefited from colleagues around the region. 00:23:09.640 --> 00:23:15.234 Hopefully I've been able to help others as well, and there's no shame

in asking for help. 00:23:15.234 --> 00:23:36.951 I think that's actually more courageous and brave to ask for help meetings. 00:23:36.990 --> 00:23:38.134 Go to those conferences, touch base with people. 00:23:38.134 --> 00:23:41.604 You are going to find that when you need them they're more readily available than if you say we're very isolated. 00:23:41.604 --> 00:23:43.851 In your school I often get heads. 00:23:44.010 --> 00:23:46.637 I talked to a lot of heads and I often get some of them. 00:23:46.637 --> 00:23:48.241 Well, I can't leave my school. 00:23:48.241 --> 00:23:54.093 I'm like as if it's the walls are going to cave it in, the whole thing is going to fall down, and I'm like that's where the problem is. 00:23:54.093 --> 00:24:00.544 You have to set things up so you can leave your school sorry, it's that thing I said earlier. 00:24:00.564 --> 00:24:01.770 You're the cog, aren't you? 00:24:01.770 --> 00:24:07.550 You're just a cog, don't don't over egg what you are you're, you are a cog within the organization. 00:24:07.550 --> 00:24:09.992 That cog should be able to function. 00:24:09.992 --> 00:24:11.233 You take that cog out. 00:24:11.233 --> 00:24:16.609 It should still work that you do not ever think you're the only spinning wheel in there. 00:24:16.609 --> 00:24:25.398 That's that's where you just become so isolated and internally looking yeah, that's good advice actually to really tap into those networks. 00:24:26.000 --> 00:24:31.056 Um, I wanted to, since we're not pressured for time, guys, so keep your headphones in. 00:24:31.056 --> 00:24:34.643 Keep your headphones in, mark, let's turn. 00:24:34.643 --> 00:24:37.067 Let's turn the spotlight on you for a minute. 00:24:37.067 --> 00:24:38.589 What brings you joy? 00:24:44.695 --> 00:24:46.597 My family spending time. 00:24:46.597 --> 00:24:57.048 You know, I've been blessed through COVID and after my two sons and my daughter, their university got disrupted. 00:24:57.048 --> 00:25:01.441 It's not a blessing for them, but I had more time with them when they should have been fleeing the nest. 00:25:01.441 --> 00:25:03.366 Spending time with family. 00:25:03.366 --> 00:25:05.442 As you know, my mum recently passed away. 00:25:05.442 --> 00:25:09.665 We had the funeral last week and it was, I said, a beautifully sad occasion. 00:25:09.665 --> 00:25:14.442 Sad that she's gone, but it's beautiful that the whole family, cousins, everyone were together. 00:25:14.442 --> 00:25:17.503 So family is really important to me. 00:25:17.503 --> 00:25:20.115 Um, so that's personally. 00:25:20.115 --> 00:25:22.579 Uh, you know, I love, I love my sport. 00:25:22.641 --> 00:25:44.153 So watching, watching any sport, brings me joy, whatever it is, um, but in in work, I get a lot of joy of seeing someone maybe been struggling, maybe lost their way a little bit, and it's not I'm not talking about the discipline just not quite flowing as they should, um, and with some support. 00:25:44.213 --> 00:25:55.080 It doesn't have to come from the head, but they find a way of getting support, be it colleagues, friends, whatever, and seeing them pull through that and then really shining. 00:25:55.080 --> 00:26:03.215 And for me that's the easy thing to do and you know, here, with contracts, the easy thing to do when someone's struggling, you say that person's not good enough for us. 00:26:03.215 --> 00:26:04.179 Let's move them on that. 00:26:04.179 --> 00:26:06.748 That's that happens in some schools. 00:26:06.748 --> 00:26:09.778 I get more joy turning around saying do you know what? 00:26:09.778 --> 00:26:11.223 We were right to? 00:26:11.223 --> 00:26:19.042 Give that person a bit more time, a bit more breathing space, because look at them now and if you can do that, you've got them for life in terms of loyalty and and what they do. 00:26:19.042 --> 00:26:27.519 So that brings me joy, that you, you take the tougher route and get the better outcome yeah, yeah, I like that. 00:26:27.980 --> 00:26:28.682 What are you reading? 00:26:30.144 --> 00:26:33.538 uh, at the moment I'm reading, uh, anxious generation. 00:26:33.538 --> 00:26:34.721 Uh. 00:26:34.721 --> 00:26:37.126 If you haven't read it, lisa, just grab it. 00:26:37.126 --> 00:26:38.529 I've recommended it. 00:26:38.529 --> 00:26:48.336 It is the most amazing book, um, about the digital world that we're in, and it's not about screen time, that's a different argument. 00:26:48.336 --> 00:27:12.029 It is literally scientific data about the impact, um, smartphones and social media have on 8 to 19 year olds all of us, but 8 to 19, because the way the brain develops, that's when we're most addicted, and all the tools that make you addictive are on our screens in front of us, and it's got me really thinking. 00:27:12.049 --> 00:27:17.826 I'm going to do a presentation in a couple of weeks to our year six parents an An example of the book. 00:27:17.826 --> 00:27:23.318 So, as we were growing up, our rites of passage were 13, because you're becoming a teenager. 00:27:23.318 --> 00:27:26.538 16, because you're at 16, you can leave school. 00:27:26.538 --> 00:27:28.403 There's certain things you're unable to do. 00:27:28.403 --> 00:27:32.445 18, the traditional sorry, you're becoming an adult. 00:27:32.445 --> 00:27:34.323 And 21, the traditional age of an adult. 00:27:34.323 --> 00:27:35.640 They're the rites of passage. 00:27:35.640 --> 00:27:36.122 They call them. 00:27:36.875 --> 00:27:44.923 This book's saying the new rite of passage is 11, because when children tend to get a smartphone is when they move from primary to secondary. 00:27:44.923 --> 00:27:52.674 Parents feel well, that's they've become, they can access everything that they shouldn't have been able to access until 13, 16, 18 and 21. 00:27:52.674 --> 00:27:56.104 They access them and they're saying that's the new rite of passage. 00:27:56.104 --> 00:28:00.539 And are children mature enough to be seeing things, doing things at

18-year-olds, 21-year-olds? 00:28:00.539 --> 00:28:01.202 The answer is no. 00:28:01.202 --> 00:28:15.931 But the smartphone and the social media and all of this, the impact it's having on ADHD and certain challenges, the impact it's having on self-harm the data is frightening. 00:28:16.332 --> 00:28:21.422 So I'm reading that at the moment and I've recommended it to every one of my parents to read Already. 00:28:21.422 --> 00:28:24.107 I've had parents coming back going is it too late? 00:28:24.107 --> 00:28:24.997 What can we do? 00:28:24.997 --> 00:28:27.904 It is so impactful, the book, I can't recommend it highly. 00:28:27.904 --> 00:28:35.618 I think it was talked about in British Parliament the other week when they're talking about smartphones and the age of access to social media and all these things. 00:28:35.618 --> 00:28:37.281 So it's a really good book. 00:28:37.281 --> 00:28:38.625 You've definitely got to read it. 00:28:38.625 --> 00:28:39.346 You'll whiz through it. 00:28:39.346 --> 00:28:40.368 It's amazing. 00:28:41.476 --> 00:28:42.882 I'm definitely going to get it. 00:28:42.882 --> 00:28:44.734 My kids don't have a smartphone. 00:28:44.734 --> 00:28:48.405 They're probably the only ones in their year, seven class, without one. 00:28:48.405 --> 00:28:51.704 I do not have them on social media either. 00:28:51.704 --> 00:28:54.403 I just I'm scared for them. 00:28:55.154 --> 00:28:58.365 So you're absolutely right, and that's good parenting. 00:28:58.365 --> 00:29:05.286 And there'll be them coming home saying, mum, I'm the uncoolest kid in school because I haven't got it and all my friends have got it. 00:29:05.286 --> 00:29:09.779 And there's that emotional blackmail as well, that you're being pulled in. 00:29:09.779 --> 00:29:16.622 Pulled in, fight it, lisa, honestly, because if you read this book, you're going to just thank yourself that you haven't broken yet. 00:29:18.494 --> 00:29:20.404 Wow, okay, I'm definitely going to read that and what's on your list? 00:29:20.404 --> 00:29:21.210 What's? 00:29:21.210 --> 00:29:21.933 On your list, are you? 00:29:21.933 --> 00:29:23.136 Reading Anxious Generation. 00:29:23.136 --> 00:29:23.898 What's on your list? 00:29:23.898 --> 00:29:25.102 I'm just. 00:29:25.102 --> 00:29:26.025 What else is on my? 00:29:26.085 --> 00:29:26.244 list. 00:29:26.244 --> 00:29:29.278 I always take recommendations Me too. 00:29:29.298 --> 00:29:30.499 That's what I'm doing right now. 00:29:30.859 --> 00:29:36.826 Yeah, I'm just going to pull them up because I've just downloaded a few, so you don't mind me, I I've got them here in my library. 00:29:36.826 --> 00:29:38.609 Uh, what else? 00:29:38.609 --> 00:29:41.961 Time to think is something I want to read by nancy klein. 00:29:41.961 --> 00:29:43.144 I haven't read that yet. 00:29:43.144 --> 00:29:45.259 A lot of I don't know some people have recommended it. 00:29:45.259 --> 00:29:49.131 Um, I'm, I started reading and I stopped. 00:29:49.352 --> 00:29:51.257 A thing called the checklist manifesto. 00:29:51.257 --> 00:29:53.881 Uh, at all guande. 00:29:53.881 --> 00:30:08.575 Um, it's about putting lists in place and it's about it's really about the medical profession, but it's actually putting procedures in place to make sure that you don't make the same mistakes again in a business environment or school environment. 00:30:08.575 --> 00:30:14.288 So we were talking about cybersecurity and if you're going to do it, you need a checklist manifesto sort of thing. 00:30:14.288 --> 00:30:17.582 That stuff, sapiens, I'm about to read. 00:30:17.582 --> 00:30:20.615 Um, I haven't read that yet. 00:30:20.615 --> 00:30:24.824 So, uh, I think that's it on my on my list at the moment. 00:30:24.824 --> 00:30:26.227 Oh, upstream as well. 00:30:26.227 --> 00:30:27.028 I started that. 00:30:27.028 --> 00:30:27.977 That's pretty good. 00:30:28.377 --> 00:30:32.875 Um, it's about going to the source of the problem and not trying to put remedial things in place. 00:30:32.875 --> 00:30:35.157 So, uh, the story is someone a 10 year old falls in a river and drowns. 00:30:35.157 --> 00:30:35.919 So they say let's put a fence up. 00:30:35.919 --> 00:30:38.141 Okay, well, they will beyear-old falls in a river and drowns. 00:30:38.141 --> 00:30:39.382 So they say let's put a fence up. 00:30:39.382 --> 00:30:42.104 Okay, well, they walk beyond the fence and then fall in and drown. 00:30:42.104 --> 00:30:43.726 Okay, let's put a life ring there. 00:30:43.726 --> 00:30:45.907 So now you've put a fence and a life ring. 00:30:45.907 --> 00:30:49.270 Well, actually, if you went upstream and taught them how to swim, you'd be solving the problem. 00:30:49.270 --> 00:30:50.751 Don't put remedial things in. 00:30:50.751 --> 00:30:53.676 Go to the heart of the issue. 00:30:54.157 --> 00:31:02.069 We talked just now when you were mentioning the book Anxious Generation, about the ills of social media and starting young. 00:31:02.069 --> 00:31:10.329 But as someone who creates content, you sometimes do create content on LinkedIn. 00:31:10.329 --> 00:31:12.298 You're not so much on Twitter. 00:31:12.298 --> 00:31:13.060 You're like me now. 00:31:13.060 --> 00:31:14.806 You're not on X anymore, are you? 00:31:14.806 --> 00:31:16.239 I've stopped as well. 00:31:16.239 --> 00:31:18.104 It's become too toxic. 00:31:18.104 --> 00:31:20.397 I'm like, nope, no, thank you for x. 00:31:20.397 --> 00:31:41.839 But what would you say are the advantages of putting your thoughts out the way you do on a platform such as linkedin for people in your position or even others other educators yeah, I like linkedin because I see it as a professional support mechanism, a professional sharing mechanism, so putting the thoughts out. 00:31:41.940 --> 00:31:44.181 There's two things I hope to achieve. 00:31:44.181 --> 00:31:51.003 One is others may benefit from my insight and it's not saying mine's the only one but also come back and challenge and offer

further things. 00:31:51.003 --> 00:31:52.565 So I put one out about use of emails. 00:31:52.565 --> 00:31:56.186 I've picked up three or four great tips this week about that. 00:31:56.186 --> 00:32:00.769 But I also think it's the art of writing. 00:32:00.769 --> 00:32:02.009 It doesn't have to be LinkedIn. 00:32:02.049 --> 00:32:13.983 Linkedin just seems to get a wider sphere, but when you put things down in writing or typing, I think it orders your thoughts as well and you become clearer. 00:32:13.983 --> 00:32:21.703 So the benefit for me of putting something on LinkedIn is actually processing my thoughts so I get an orderly fashion, so they're clear in my mind. 00:32:21.703 --> 00:32:26.201 There's only two ways I can Well, three ways I can do. 00:32:26.201 --> 00:32:35.134 That is one putting it on something like LinkedIn, and the other two are going for a long walk or going for a swim and where I can't be disrupted and I get my thoughts in order. 00:32:35.134 --> 00:32:41.268 So I think it's the ordering of thoughts is the biggest wellbeing benefit of the social media. 00:32:41.268 --> 00:32:46.227 Sharing ideas and then getting ideas back helps me professionally as well. 00:32:47.676 --> 00:32:50.605 Yeah, do you think it's something other school leaders should do? 00:32:52.715 --> 00:32:59.828 Yeah, I think each to their own, but I think the bit about sharing an insight for others. 00:32:59.828 --> 00:33:01.962 So getting my thoughts in order, that's a personal thing. 00:33:01.962 --> 00:33:04.462 Others may say I don't like it that way, I'll do something else. 00:33:04.462 --> 00:33:21.439 That's fine, but I think there's a lot of leaders out there who are quiet and don't share things Not a criticism, but I don't think they actually see the wealth of experience they have and the benefits it could add to others. 00:33:21.439 --> 00:33:29.282 So for me, taking that bold leap and saying I've got something to share I think we're always a bit nervous of that. 00:33:29.282 --> 00:33:30.547 Is it worth sharing? 00:33:30.547 --> 00:33:31.796 How's it going to be reviewed? 00:33:31.796 --> 00:33:36.564 I think on LinkedIn, if there's a challenge challenge, it's a professional challenge. 00:33:36.564 --> 00:33:38.768 So you that that gets you sharper. 00:33:38.768 --> 00:33:50.685 So I think I would definitely encourage others to share their experiences to benefit others and what you get back benefits you as well yeah, how do they get over that? 00:33:51.247 --> 00:33:56.059 you know that little bit of I don't even know what to call. 00:33:56.059 --> 00:34:01.228 I don't don't want to call it fear, but you know that anxiety yeah. 00:34:02.288 --> 00:34:03.171 Do you know what I think? 00:34:03.171 --> 00:34:07.198 I think aren't we just saying that to students every day, to kids every day? 00:34:07.198 --> 00:34:13.907 Try this, try that you know, live by what the standard you're asking of others and just do it. 00:34:13.907 --> 00:34:15.983 You

know what a great thing to say to kids. 00:34:15.983 --> 00:34:16.856 Do you know what? 00:34:16.856 --> 00:34:18.079 I'm asking you to do something? 00:34:18.079 --> 00:34:23.798 And the other week I I hadn't written ever on linkedin and I wrote on it and I was really nervous and but I've got this. 00:34:23.798 --> 00:34:25.463 It's a positive example. 00:34:25.463 --> 00:34:28.380 Kids will empathize more with you because you empathize with them. 00:34:28.500 --> 00:34:39.594 So I would say, you know, just do what we ask of our students every day yeah, yeah, my other question, because, see, we have time, but I want this is my second to last one. 00:34:39.594 --> 00:34:43.443 I promise no problem in education right now. 00:34:43.443 --> 00:34:45.327 What are you excited about? 00:34:49.519 --> 00:34:56.106 yeah, I'm genuinely excited about the future of international education. 00:34:56.106 --> 00:35:08.521 I'm not as excited about the UK at the moment and I just think that outside of the UK, the UK education system is seen as, I won't say, the, but a gold standard. 00:35:08.521 --> 00:35:13.342 It's held in such high regard and I think, why is that? 00:35:13.342 --> 00:35:16.605 Yet in the UK it's not seen like that. 00:35:16.605 --> 00:35:20.835 And for me, I'm excited about the future for education internationally. 00:35:20.835 --> 00:35:24.563 I think it's a growing market, I think it's uh, innovative. 00:35:25.405 --> 00:35:30.003 Um, when I've gone to the conferences like BSME, fabicia, etc. 00:35:30.003 --> 00:35:39.038 And I go to UK ones as well, I think I think the international sphere of experts and what they're talking about is really dynamic and forward thinking. 00:35:39.038 --> 00:35:40.804 Um, so that excites me. 00:35:40.804 --> 00:35:42.489 Um, and I'm excited. 00:35:42.489 --> 00:35:45.317 I know, you know you talked about succession plan. 00:35:45.317 --> 00:35:49.998 I'm excited that I'm still involved in it and I still feel I've got worth to be involved in it. 00:35:49.998 --> 00:35:52.445 Um, so that that really excites me. 00:35:52.445 --> 00:36:03.521 Um, the things kids come, the things kids come up with on a daily basis of what they want to do, their dreams and their ambitions are endless and that's got to be exciting. 00:36:03.914 --> 00:36:06.342 You know, gone are the days of the kid going. 00:36:06.342 --> 00:36:07.817 I want to be a fireman, I want to be a. 00:36:07.817 --> 00:36:23.788 You know the sort of stereotypical careers Not that there's anything wrong with those but our kids have like an unlimited array of options that we haven't even heard of and I just think that's in some ways frightening if we're not used to that. 00:36:23.788 --> 00:36:29.795 But if you take that fear away, you think how can we help those kids do that when we don't even know ourselves? 00:36:29.795 --> 00:36:31.697 That's exciting to learn ourselves. 00:36:31.697 --> 00:36:38.349 So I'm excited about kids' futures and I'm excited about, you know, kids' futures and I'm excited about international education. 00:36:39.755 --> 00:36:42.143 And in terms of BSAC. 00:36:42.143 --> 00:36:59.659 Now I'm just kind of honing it down, narrowing it down what exciting things do you have planned coming up, because I think more than likely this episode is going to be out in the start of the new academic year, because we're already in June and we kind of back um back catalogue our episodes. 00:36:59.659 --> 00:37:03.195 What are you excited about for BSAC in the new academic year? 00:37:03.556 --> 00:37:07.467 Yeah, look, I think a great school never stands still. 00:37:07.467 --> 00:37:11.739 The minute you stand still, you're effectively going backwards and you're not doing the kids justice. 00:37:11.739 --> 00:37:15.088 So we've got um, we've got a new, a lot. 00:37:15.088 --> 00:37:25.157 We had a new science build last year, um, but that's triggered an ambition within the school that we can't rebuild the whole school, but we're going to regenerate a lot of areas of the school. 00:37:25.157 --> 00:37:30.356 So we've got uh areas where we're going to be able to bring more parents into events. 00:37:30.356 --> 00:37:33.081 So new coffee shops and all that interaction. 00:37:33.081 --> 00:37:35.126 That's like our facility plan is exciting. 00:37:35.568 --> 00:37:41.347 But what really excites me is, um, we've got a huge array of courses at the school that we're trying to. 00:37:41.347 --> 00:37:43.699 We're starting with e-sports BTEC. 00:37:43.699 --> 00:37:45.864 We're doing AI BTEC. 00:37:45.864 --> 00:37:47.708 So we've got lots of new. 00:37:47.708 --> 00:37:50.561 Yeah, we're already doing an AI BTEC. 00:37:50.561 --> 00:37:51.302 It's a. 00:37:51.302 --> 00:37:53.427 It's around about a GCSE level. 00:37:53.427 --> 00:37:56.644 It's not a full BTEC but it's giving the kids an insight into that. 00:38:04.775 --> 00:38:05.438 We're looking at hospitality BTEC. 00:38:05.438 --> 00:38:06.262 We've got new a levels coming on board. 00:38:06.262 --> 00:38:07.005 We've got a huge well-being program. 00:38:07.005 --> 00:38:08.452 We've got a huge sustainability launch where we put someone in. 00:38:08.452 --> 00:38:13.481 I've got a new director of digital coming in, a new director of sport coming in really exciting. 00:38:13.481 --> 00:38:20.592 We're going to try and be a lead on EDI. 00:38:20.592 --> 00:38:22.474 We're working with Angie Brown. 00:38:22.474 --> 00:38:31.682 She's going to come over and work with us and we're going to make a full commitment to our staff and wider community and other schools that we become a hub for that. 00:38:31.682 --> 00:38:35.559 It's not saying we're there now, we're certainly not, but you know they're exciting. 00:38:35.559 --> 00:38:39.143 It's where we're not, but where we can be is really exciting to me. 00:38:39.143 --> 00:38:43.215 So hopefully in if you ask me again in a year's time, I'll say a lot of those. 00:38:43.215 --> 00:38:46.907

They're never completed but they're much further along than we are today. 00:38:46.907 --> 00:38:50.079 So those sort of things excite me, lisa. 00:38:50.641 --> 00:38:51.282 I like that. 00:38:51.282 --> 00:38:58.635 I like the fact that you understand that it's a journey and you're willing to go on that journey and that's exciting in itself. 00:38:58.635 --> 00:39:00.641 So it's september and you're back. 00:39:00.641 --> 00:39:02.025 What's the summer plan? 00:39:02.025 --> 00:39:02.505 What, what? 00:39:02.505 --> 00:39:03.556 What are we doing in the summer? 00:39:03.556 --> 00:39:06.344 That's my last question and that's a problem no problem, I'm gonna. 00:39:06.364 --> 00:39:07.597 Just I'm gonna pull you up on one thing. 00:39:07.597 --> 00:39:08.900 You say it's like a journey. 00:39:08.900 --> 00:39:18.206 I always say it's like an adventure, because we don't always know where the ending is true, that is true it's an adventurous journey, let's call it an adventurous journey. 00:39:18.447 --> 00:39:19.108 I'm going to use that. 00:39:19.108 --> 00:39:21.010 I like that Adventurous journey, that's a great way. 00:39:21.010 --> 00:39:22.257 What are the plans? 00:39:22.257 --> 00:39:24.961 Yeah, so happy and sad times. 00:39:26.465 --> 00:39:29.335 We're all going on a family holiday to Greece Naxos. 00:39:29.335 --> 00:39:30.619 We went there last year, we love it. 00:39:30.619 --> 00:39:32.465 So my daughter's flying out from England. 00:39:32.465 --> 00:39:34.458 My two boys are here at the moment. 00:39:34.458 --> 00:39:41.626 They're flying with us, but that's not the end of them in abadabi, but, um, they're going off to their careers after this. 00:39:41.626 --> 00:39:54.820 So we go to greece for a couple of weeks, then back to the uk, but we'll be putting our son on a plane to, uh, saudi arabia, who's just secured a math teaching job in the british international school, riad, which I'm delighted for he's. 00:39:54.820 --> 00:40:01.831 He's just done his pgc here, so for me that's a joy that we've got someone starting their career in the family. 00:40:01.831 --> 00:40:07.742 My other son has just secured an audit and risk job with Deloitte in Newcastle, so he's off there. 00:40:07.742 --> 00:40:08.980 So they go the same day. 00:40:08.980 --> 00:40:18.963 So really proud as a parent, a bit sad because literally next year we'll have none of our kids around, although they've told me they're regularly visiting. 00:40:18.963 --> 00:40:20.320 So that'll be nice. 00:40:21.376 --> 00:40:23.023 And the one in Saudi is not too far away. 00:40:23.023 --> 00:40:25.842 It'll be you and Paulette and the dog. 00:40:26.664 --> 00:40:29.681 Yeah, she'll find out what I'm really like then and throw me out the window. 00:40:30.324 --> 00:40:36.788 Oh gosh, but it sounds like a really big time of transition for you. 00:40:36.788 --> 00:40:44.588 So I do wish you all the best with that and I wish you a great summer and we will definitely be touching base in the new academic year. 00:40:44.588 --> 00:40:47.862 I want to officially on the podcast. 00:40:47.862 --> 00:40:55.719 Thank you for your support for you know, for your content on LinkedIn, for tagging me and for really keeping me in the loop. 00:40:55.719 --> 00:40:58.342 I really enjoy that for tagging me and for really keeping me in the loop. 00:40:58.342 --> 00:41:02.528 I really enjoy that and I also enjoy just the work that you're doing at BSAC. 00:41:02.528 --> 00:41:14.626 I want to put it on record you have been one of those principals that have remained really consistent and I really enjoy just watching from afar the work that you're doing. 00:41:14.626 --> 00:41:15.447 So thank you. 00:41:16.476 --> 00:41:17.260 Lisa, that means a lot. 00:41:17.260 --> 00:41:18.016 It really does. 00:41:18.016 --> 00:41:20.623 I'll have to go off soon. 00:41:20.623 --> 00:41:21.545 She'll have me in tears. 00:41:22.556 --> 00:41:23.360 No, you're fine. 00:41:23.360 --> 00:41:28.867 Thank you so much for being on the podcast with me today, Mark. 00:41:29.755 --> 00:41:30.702 Lisa, always a pleasure. 00:41:30.702 --> 00:41:31.387 I love chatting to you. 00:41:31.387 --> 00:41:32.594 Thank you, you're welcome. 00:41:33.755 --> 00:41:36.565 Thank you for listening to the Teach Middle East podcast. 00:41:36.565 --> 00:41:41.903 Visit our website teachmiddleeastcom and follow us on social media. 00:41:41.903 --> 00:41:44.228 The links are in the show notes.