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Jonathan Collins joins Special Guest Host Dr. Nii-Quartelai Quartey

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WEBVTT 1 00:00:02.500 --> 00:00:06.620 Live from Leimert Park, this is the Tavis Smiley Show, 2 00:00:06.879 --> 00:00:10.699 and I'm your special guest host, Dr. Nacordelon Corté, filling 3 00:00:10.820 --> 00:00:14.560 in for Tavis as he's away, and we are so glad, so, 4 00:00:14.660 --> 00:00:17.980 so glad to be back in stride again. Before we 5 00:00:18.019 --> 00:00:20.129 get started with today's show, let me invite you to 6 00:00:20.230 --> 00:00:26.190 follow Tavis on Facebook and Instagram at TheRealTavisSmiley, and get 7 00:00:26.269 --> 00:00:29.449 updates on X, you know, that platform formerly known as Twitter. 8 00:00:30.370 --> 00:00:32.969 Just go ahead and follow him. at Tavis Smiley on 9 00:00:33.009 --> 00:00:35.270 that platform. You can also follow me on all the 10 00:00:35.289 --> 00:00:42.219 platforms at DrNicordalai. Just type in DrNiq, D-R-N-I-I-Q, and boom, bam, boom, 11 00:00:42.259 --> 00:00:44.780 there I am, fresh for you to follow. By the way, 12 00:00:44.939 --> 00:00:47.719 should you miss any part of today's program or want 13 00:00:47.740 --> 00:00:50.799 to catch up on previous shows, you can always visit 14 00:00:51.100 --> 00:00:55.289 the TavisSmileyShow.com or wherever you get your podcasts and listen 15 00:00:55.329 --> 00:00:59.170 to the Tavis Smiley Podcast at your leisure. A great 16 00:00:59.210 --> 00:01:01.770 show on tap for you today. In our second hour, 17 00:01:01.890 --> 00:01:05.150 two conversations. On the A side, I talk with attorney 18 00:01:05.209 --> 00:01:09.310 and TV judge Tanya Acker to get her analysis about 19 00:01:09.370 --> 00:01:14.099 the expected legal drama of the blue wave from investigations 20 00:01:14.159 --> 00:01:17.799 to impeachments and get her thoughts about the fate, the 21 00:01:17.939 --> 00:01:21.680 fate of the Civil Rights Division at the Department of Justice. 22 00:01:22.120 --> 00:01:25.060 On the B side, I talk with nationally syndicated Latino 23 00:01:25.120 --> 00:01:29.569 columnist Ruben Navarrete about the impact of the Latino vote 24 00:01:29.689 --> 00:01:30.569 on the midterms. 25 00:01:31.390 --> 00:01:32.849 You know, I got a lot of questions there. You 26 00:01:32.870 --> 00:01:35.829 might have a lot of questions, too. And in our 27 00:01:35.870 --> 00:01:36.450 third hour, I. 28 00:01:37.650 --> 00:01:41.170 Check in with the executive director of Live Free USA, 29 00:01:41.250 --> 00:01:45.760 Pastor Mike McBride, and futurist and founder of Future Culture, 30 00:01:46.400 --> 00:01:51.040 Steve Parget, about how they brought black faith leaders, organizers, 31 00:01:51.159 --> 00:01:56.180 and technologists together. at the 10th Annual Afrotech Conference for 32 00:01:56.200 --> 00:02:00.519 the Adoption and Signing of a Covenant Agreement on AI 33 00:02:01.079 --> 00:02:03.480 that was written by the people in the room and 34 00:02:03.500 --> 00:02:05.959 will be carried by Black churches into. 35 00:02:05.799 --> 00:02:06.859 The new age. 36 00:02:06.959 --> 00:02:10.520 That should be a fascinating conversation. I've been looking forward 37 00:02:10.560 --> 00:02:13.719 to it all week. But we commence today's show in 38 00:02:14.039 --> 00:02:17.759 this first hour talking politics and more with the co-director 39 00:02:17.819 --> 00:02:21.120 of the Politics and Education Program at the Teachers College 40 00:02:21.240 --> 00:02:24.479 at Columbia University, my friend Dr. 41 00:02:24.759 --> 00:02:26.039 Jonathan Collins. 42 00:02:26.280 --> 00:02:30.599 Welcome to a more, welcome to a, I almost said 43 00:02:30.620 --> 00:02:33.930 a more perfect union because he's also the democracy scholar 44 00:02:33.969 --> 00:02:36.250 on my afternoon drive time show, a more perfect union, 45 00:02:36.289 --> 00:02:40.229 which is on Tavis's home station on KBLA. 46 00:02:40.990 --> 00:02:43.509 Welcome back family. How you doing Dr. Collins? 47 00:02:44.210 --> 00:02:47.229 Dr. Cord, great to see you. Great to see you 48 00:02:47.250 --> 00:02:48.050 this morning. Glad to be here. 49 00:02:48.250 --> 00:02:50.669 It's great to see you. It's great to have you here. 50 00:02:51.050 --> 00:02:54.210 You are one of the sharpest minds in how democracy 51 00:02:54.569 --> 00:02:58.610 actually works at the ground floor, whether we're talking. 52 00:02:58.389 --> 00:03:00.930 About school boards or young voters. 53 00:03:01.969 --> 00:03:05.159 But you got your finger on the pulse of what's 54 00:03:05.180 --> 00:03:09.659 happening in the places where power starts. I've got to 55 00:03:09.840 --> 00:03:16.000 ask you about this Pete Hegseth impeachment. I want to 56 00:03:16.020 --> 00:03:19.039 start with this little plot twist here because, as you. 57 00:03:18.960 --> 00:03:22.949 Know, Dr. Collins, yesterday.... 58 00:03:23.159 --> 00:03:27.919 Kentucky Republican Thomas Massey introduced eight articles of impeachment against 59 00:03:27.960 --> 00:03:31.139 Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth. Three of them accuse him of 60 00:03:31.180 --> 00:03:36.870 waging war on Iran without authorization from Congress. Others cite 61 00:03:36.879 --> 00:03:40.340 civilian casualties, the boat strikes in the Caribbean, the capture 62 00:03:40.909 --> 00:03:45.509 of Venezuela's Nicolas Maduro, and the Pentagon scrutiny of Senator 63 00:03:45.530 --> 00:03:50.289 Mark Kelly. Hegseth calls it a sham. a sham from 64 00:03:50.349 --> 00:03:55.789 what he called a, quote, disgruntled, defeated congressman. Under House rules, 65 00:03:56.370 --> 00:03:59.169 leaders have two legislative days to bring it to a vote, 66 00:03:59.270 --> 00:04:02.490 and if it passes, Hegseth would be only the third 67 00:04:02.590 --> 00:04:04.740 cabinet secretary ever impeached. 68 00:04:05.349 --> 00:04:05.629 Dr. 69 00:04:05.680 --> 00:04:09.419 Jonathan, a Republican, is doing what Democrats have been asked 70 00:04:09.460 --> 00:04:10.639 to do for a year. 71 00:04:10.699 --> 00:04:13.120 What does it tell you? That the
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first big. 72 00:04:12.939 --> 00:04:16.079 Accountability move after the election, it came from inside the GOP. 73 00:04:18.339 --> 00:04:20.699 It tells you that There's this thing that we like 74 00:04:20.730 --> 00:04:21.850 to do, Dr. Corte. 75 00:04:22.120 --> 00:04:24.569 We as human beings, we like to lick our finger 76 00:04:24.829 --> 00:04:28.370 and put it to the wind, see which direction the 77 00:04:28.410 --> 00:04:31.569 breeze is blowing. And I think that's exactly what is 78 00:04:31.610 --> 00:04:34.629 happening in this story, in this situation. The Republican Party, 79 00:04:35.069 --> 00:04:39.810 fresh off of getting blasted in the midterm election, it's 80 00:04:39.939 --> 00:04:43.600 not a surprise to see someone like Tom Massey from 81 00:04:43.639 --> 00:04:46.079 Kentucky initiating this impeachment campaign. 82 00:04:46.389 --> 00:04:49.269 He is reading the tea leaves, Dr. Corte. 83 00:04:49.529 --> 00:04:52.470 He is looking at the writing on the wall. The 84 00:04:52.509 --> 00:04:58.189 Republican Party's policies have been unfavorable, and especially the decision 85 00:04:58.470 --> 00:05:02.269 to initiate this foreign conflict. This has been the number 86 00:05:02.550 --> 00:05:07.009 one reason why energy costs in the United States are 87 00:05:07.029 --> 00:05:10.000 sky high. Your gas prices, if you're in the car 88 00:05:10.040 --> 00:05:12.769 right now, And you're looking at that gas tank and 89 00:05:12.829 --> 00:05:15.420 it's getting close to E and you are dreading the 90 00:05:15.600 --> 00:05:18.060 idea of having to go to the gas pump because 91 00:05:18.079 --> 00:05:19.839 you know how much money is going to cost you. 92 00:05:20.240 --> 00:05:20.720 Guess what? 93 00:05:21.019 --> 00:05:24.639 It's all directly connected to the foreign conflict in Iran. 94 00:05:24.879 --> 00:05:30.220 And that's right on Pete Hexeth's shoulders. He is wearing that. 95 00:05:30.459 --> 00:05:33.810 It was a decision to go to war unilaterally without 96 00:05:33.829 --> 00:05:34.730 the support of Congress. 97 00:05:35.189 --> 00:05:36.230 It is a disaster. 98 00:05:36.509 --> 00:05:39.810 Well, we're going to follow this disaster when we come forward. 99 00:05:40.110 --> 00:05:42.769 You're listening to The Tavis Smiley Show. You are listening 100 00:05:42.829 --> 00:05:45.029 to and streaming The Tavis Smiley Show. 101 00:05:45.089 --> 00:05:45.870 I'm your guest host, Dr. 102 00:05:45.889 --> 00:05:49.110 Nkordelai Korte. I'm really delighted to be in conversation with Dr. 103 00:05:49.129 --> 00:05:53.189 Jonathan Collins, Associate Professor of Political Science at the Columbia University. 104 00:05:53.970 --> 00:05:58.310 He is also a democracy scholar on my afternoon drive-time show, 105 00:05:58.360 --> 00:06:04.199 More Perfect Union, on KBLA, Tavis' home station. And we've 106 00:06:04.220 --> 00:06:09.050 been talking about... Secretary Pete Hegseth, you know, he's feeling 107 00:06:10.069 --> 00:06:14.810 the fire, right? And not in the Tina Marie sort 108 00:06:14.860 --> 00:06:20.079 of way, if you follow. He is feeling the fire 109 00:06:20.139 --> 00:06:24.579 from inside the party. Representative Thomas Massey has drawn out 110 00:06:24.860 --> 00:06:26.459 articles of impeachment. 111 00:06:26.889 --> 00:06:29.009 And he ain't playing around. He ain't playing around. I 112 00:06:29.009 --> 00:06:30.129 think a lot of people thought that. 113 00:06:31.230 --> 00:06:35.790 You know, the Democrats were going to lead the effort 114 00:06:35.829 --> 00:06:40.639 to begin to impeach cabinet members who have broken the 115 00:06:40.980 --> 00:06:45.399 law or who have allegedly broken the law. And it 116 00:06:45.439 --> 00:06:49.680 seems that this is Republican on Republican right now. Take 117 00:06:49.740 --> 00:06:53.490 a listen to what Secretary Hexheff had to say during 118 00:06:53.550 --> 00:06:58.189 a fiery, fiery press conference on Capitol Hill just this morning. 119 00:06:59.649 --> 00:07:00.709 It's a political spectacle. 120 00:07:01.769 --> 00:07:06.149 A personal manifesto driven by ego and resentment. Time for 121 00:07:06.790 --> 00:07:09.250 one man's final days in Congress to try to do 122 00:07:09.290 --> 00:07:14.689 damage to this president, this country, and most irresponsibly, the 123 00:07:14.730 --> 00:07:16.279 warriors who defend it. 124 00:07:17.230 --> 00:07:22.220 It's a farce and it's a stunt. And everybody knows it. 125 00:07:23.490 --> 00:07:28.100 In the 250 years of our American Republic, no Secretary 126 00:07:28.120 --> 00:07:31.620 of War, or Secretary of Defense has ever been impeached 127 00:07:31.709 --> 00:07:37.720 for carrying out lawful military operations. And in our case, 128 00:07:38.680 --> 00:07:40.360 successful ones at that. 129 00:07:41.660 --> 00:07:42.040 Not once. 130 00:07:42.600 --> 00:07:46.139 War powers resolution or not, not under Reagan in Lebanon, 131 00:07:46.579 --> 00:07:50.149 not under Clinton in Kosovo, not under Obama in Iraq 132 00:07:50.209 --> 00:07:55.029 and Syria, not under Biden in Iraq and Syria. That's 133 00:07:55.050 --> 00:07:58.949 the standard. The history is clear and it's very straightforward. 134 00:07:59.879 --> 00:08:02.040 And one disgruntled congressman wants. 135 00:08:01.850 --> 00:08:05.589 To shred it over policy disagreements. 136 00:08:06.470 --> 00:08:08.069 That's what it is, policy disagreements. 137 00:08:08.870 --> 00:08:13.709 Not high crimes, not misdemeanors, not treason, not bribery, not 138 00:08:13.750 --> 00:08:16.649 the kinds of offenses the founders intended when they wrote 139 00:08:16.829 --> 00:08:20.990 the impeachment clause. The proper remedy for a policy disagreement, 140 00:08:21.589 --> 00:08:22.329 it's legislation. 141 00:08:25.110 --> 00:08:29.579 A policy disagreement. Dr. Collins, would you reduce.... 142 00:08:31.110 --> 00:08:37.250 Calls for Pete Hegseth's impeachment to simple policy disagreements? 143
00:08:37.370 --> 00:08:40.169 Is that what this is? Is that the way you 144 00:08:40.190 --> 00:08:42.610 see it? A policy disagreement? 145 00:08:43.629 --> 00:08:47.029 Yeah, it's much deeper than that. I'm surprised that he 146 00:08:47.110 --> 00:08:51.450 undersells what's on the table in such an extreme way. 147 00:08:51.490 --> 00:08:54.750 I mean, this is a gross undersell. We're talking about. 148 00:08:56.210 --> 00:09:00.529 The policy disagreement he's referring to is the Iran war 149 00:09:00.610 --> 00:09:04.549 authorization without Congress. Sure, that's a policy disagreement. But what's 150 00:09:04.710 --> 00:09:10.649 also in the eight articles that is cited in the resolution, 151 00:09:11.330 --> 00:09:18.889 civilian casualties, they're putting over 1,200 bodies on Pete Hex's head, 152 00:09:19.590 --> 00:09:23.570 responsible for over 1,000 deaths. When you start to factor 153 00:09:23.629 --> 00:09:26.950 in the boat strikes, when you start to factor in 154 00:09:27.210 --> 00:09:32.769 deaths in the Iran conflict. He's also cited for retaliation 155 00:09:32.809 --> 00:09:36.289 against Senator Mark Kelly. Can't forget about that. Allegedly using 156 00:09:36.330 --> 00:09:41.590 the Pentagon's authority against a sitting senator for speech concerning 157 00:09:41.710 --> 00:09:45.610 unlawful military orders. Y'all remember when they just up and 158 00:09:45.690 --> 00:09:47.590 kidnapped the leader of Venezuela? 159 00:09:49.289 --> 00:09:57.279 Mm-hmm. These are serious, serious... crimes that have costs and consequences, 160 00:09:57.370 --> 00:10:00.409 not just for us domestically, but for the state. of 161 00:10:00.470 --> 00:10:01.210 the world. 162 00:10:01.789 --> 00:10:05.009 This is the message that we are sending to countries 163 00:10:05.190 --> 00:10:09.529 around the world, that it's okay to initiate conflict unilaterally 164 00:10:09.590 --> 00:10:12.629 without any kind of democratic process or any kind of deliberation. 165 00:10:13.009 --> 00:10:15.570 That it's okay to just kidnap foreign leaders of countries 166 00:10:15.590 --> 00:10:20.779 who you want to exploit for their oil resources. This 167 00:10:22.450 --> 00:10:25.529 is so much deeper than policy. This is dead bodies 168 00:10:25.710 --> 00:10:29.250 on the streets. This is an elementary school that was. 169 00:10:29.330 --> 00:10:30.769 Bombed, Dr. 170 00:10:30.809 --> 00:10:31.450 Neal. 171 00:10:32.110 --> 00:10:34.269 These are war crimes. 172 00:10:34.649 --> 00:10:41.299 He wanted to be the secretary of war. Well, you're 173 00:10:41.320 --> 00:10:43.039 the secretary of war, and now you need to pay 174 00:10:43.059 --> 00:10:45.860 the consequences for acting in ways that are irresponsible. 175 00:10:46.639 --> 00:10:49.480 And so, you know, I want to bring this this 176 00:10:49.559 --> 00:10:53.809 conversation to the streets for a second, because the core 177 00:10:53.889 --> 00:10:58.769 charge is that is war without Congress's permission. 178 00:10:59.490 --> 00:11:01.409 And so and so for our leaders, learners. 179 00:11:01.250 --> 00:11:07.379 And listeners who are tuning out the procedure of it all, 180 00:11:08.000 --> 00:11:10.639 what should what should a grandmother, what should, you know, 181 00:11:10.659 --> 00:11:14.129 an uncle in Memphis do? you know, why should a 182 00:11:14.169 --> 00:11:16.090 grandmother or why should an uncle in Memphis, why should 183 00:11:16.110 --> 00:11:18.549 they care about the war power clause anyway? 184 00:11:19.490 --> 00:11:23.049 Well, because it protects one of the fundamental principles of democracy, 185 00:11:23.110 --> 00:11:27.389 which is separation of powers. And so we may abuse 186 00:11:27.429 --> 00:11:29.230 the fact that the separation of powers are important, but 187 00:11:29.250 --> 00:11:31.509 think about it this way. If we lived in a 188 00:11:31.750 --> 00:11:34.759 world where, or a society where, in a country where 189 00:11:35.379 --> 00:11:39.740 one person, all the power was concentrated in one person 190 00:11:40.179 --> 00:11:42.690 and whatever decisions that that person wanted to make, That's 191 00:11:42.730 --> 00:11:44.909 the way it went. And whenever they go rogue and 192 00:11:44.950 --> 00:11:47.549 do things that put us in danger, there's no check. 193 00:11:47.950 --> 00:11:53.909 There's no balance. The War Powers Act of 1973 was 194 00:11:53.970 --> 00:11:57.330 to ensure that we maintain those separations of power. 195 00:11:57.370 --> 00:12:02.269 Because, Dr. Neat, listeners, do you know what the. 196 00:12:03.860 --> 00:12:07.919 Legislation in 1973 was all about? This was a response 197 00:12:07.980 --> 00:12:12.019 to the Vietnam War, where we had some of the 198 00:12:12.620 --> 00:12:18.059 largest losses of American lives in a conflict in modern 199 00:12:18.120 --> 00:12:23.120 American history because the president and his administration, the Nixon administration, 200 00:12:23.659 --> 00:12:24.779 acted unilaterally. 201 00:12:24.830 --> 00:12:27.809 And you know what happened to Nixon after that conflict, Dr. 202 00:12:27.830 --> 00:12:27.970 Me? 203 00:12:28.570 --> 00:12:29.049 What happened? 204 00:12:29.950 --> 00:12:32.669 Got him up out of there. Packed him up. 205 00:12:32.909 --> 00:12:33.590 Tell the people. 206 00:12:34.769 --> 00:12:36.970 Impeached in shame. 207 00:12:37.610 --> 00:12:41.679 The word Nixon is mud in American politics because of 208 00:12:42.710 --> 00:12:47.789 The way in which he acted as a president unwilling 209 00:12:47.850 --> 00:12:52.649 to accept the separation of powers. What we're accusing Pete 210 00:12:52.710 --> 00:12:57.360 Hexup of in this moment is the Nixon playbook being 211 00:12:57.460 --> 00:12:58.740 replicated in real time. 212 00:12:58.779 --> 00:12:59.639 So this is a big deal. 213 00:13:00.000 --> 00:13:02.779 So, Dr. Collins, look, Republicans hold the House for a 214 00:13:02.840 --> 00:13:06.320 few more weeks. Does
this pass? Does it fail? Does 215 00:13:06.360 --> 00:13:10.370 it get tabled? What's what's the what should we be watching? 216 00:13:11.830 --> 00:13:16.490 Get your popcorn out, get you a nice soda, maybe 217 00:13:16.529 --> 00:13:19.389 an Icy, if that's more your style. Actually, I won't 218 00:13:19.409 --> 00:13:21.269 encourage the Icy because we got to keep our sugar 219 00:13:21.309 --> 00:13:21.870 levels right. 220 00:13:23.629 --> 00:13:25.450 You know what I'm saying? 221 00:13:25.509 --> 00:13:28.789 We don't need that in our community, but this is 222 00:13:28.850 --> 00:13:32.840 going to be political must-see TV because what we've been 223 00:13:32.909 --> 00:13:36.100 seeing from President Trump, if you saw his 60 Minutes interview, 224 00:13:36.620 --> 00:13:40.940 is at least some level of contrition and acceptance of 225 00:13:40.980 --> 00:13:45.929 the fact that His policies were unpopular and led to 226 00:13:46.730 --> 00:13:52.009 the slaughtering that took place of the Republican Party in 227 00:13:52.029 --> 00:13:55.600 the midterm elections. And so if Donald Trump is willing 228 00:13:55.629 --> 00:13:59.539 to admit that the unpopularity of his policies contributed to 229 00:13:59.559 --> 00:14:03.120 the result, again, licking your finger, holding it up in 230 00:14:03.139 --> 00:14:05.940 the air, seeing which way the wind is blowing, I 231 00:14:06.000 --> 00:14:08.419 expect more members of the Republican Party to do the 232 00:14:08.460 --> 00:14:11.120 same because right now it's all about self-preservation. 233 00:14:11.179 --> 00:14:11.419 Yeah. 234 00:14:11.750 --> 00:14:12.029 Yeah. 235 00:14:12.610 --> 00:14:15.070 The only other thing I would add, uh, for folks 236 00:14:15.309 --> 00:14:17.309 who may shrug their shoulders and say, okay, you know, 237 00:14:17.350 --> 00:14:21.830 why should we care about this? Um, just a reminder, uh, that, uh, 238 00:14:22.409 --> 00:14:25.289 we also have black service members and military families that 239 00:14:25.340 --> 00:14:28.559 are a part of this conversation, uh, that, uh, you know, 240 00:14:29.019 --> 00:14:34.899 bear the brunt of some of the short-sighted, uh, decisions. Um, 241 00:14:35.259 --> 00:14:38.940 you know, some of the targeting that has been reported of, uh, 242 00:14:39.019 --> 00:14:43.009 black service members, uh, You know, for, you know, black 243 00:14:43.090 --> 00:14:47.629 men that don't shave their faces every day. And I 244 00:14:47.690 --> 00:14:49.230 count myself among among them. 245 00:14:49.549 --> 00:14:49.850 Right. 246 00:14:50.570 --> 00:14:53.070 They're trying to change policy to force them to have 247 00:14:53.110 --> 00:14:57.149 to do that, knowing that shaving every day has an 248 00:14:57.289 --> 00:15:01.320 adverse reaction on our skin or it can. And and so, 249 00:15:01.500 --> 00:15:04.379 you know, we got to, you know, keep our eye 250 00:15:04.779 --> 00:15:08.240 on these issues because they do impact us.
251 00:15:08.679 --> 00:15:09.610 They do impact us. 252 00:15:10.909 --> 00:15:14.440 You know, I want to turn to talk a little 253 00:15:14.480 --> 00:15:16.879 bit about. 254 00:15:18.279 --> 00:15:24.500 Hakeem Jeffries. The promise. You're beaming in from New York, 255 00:15:24.519 --> 00:15:25.830 so you know exactly what I'm talking about. 256 00:15:26.690 --> 00:15:30.970 Last week, Hakeem Jeffries, he told Don Lemon, quote, we 257 00:15:31.009 --> 00:15:35.409 will deliver accountability. And he said anyone screwing over the 258 00:15:35.450 --> 00:15:41.649 American people would face– you know, some consequences. They're going 259 00:15:41.669 --> 00:15:44.049 to face it on day one of the new Congress. 260 00:15:44.090 --> 00:15:46.049 That's the promise. Now, here's the bill. 261 00:15:46.870 --> 00:15:50.889 Pollster Terrence Woodbury, your Morehouse brother, he told the folks 262 00:15:50.929 --> 00:15:54.409 over at the Griot that the blacklash was never about 263 00:15:54.450 --> 00:15:57.889 electing Democrats, and so the blacklash does not end just 264 00:15:57.950 --> 00:16:01.389 because Democrats won. His polling found that less than half 265 00:16:01.590 --> 00:16:05.509 of black voters believe that Democrats will make their lives better. 266 00:16:05.970 --> 00:16:09.110 Melanie Campbell, over at the National Coalition of Black Civic Participation, 267 00:16:09.539 --> 00:16:12.159 She put it plainly. She said, if you can't get 268 00:16:12.200 --> 00:16:16.659 it done, you better be caught trying. And Westmore said, 269 00:16:16.679 --> 00:16:19.860 we don't need a 100 day plan. We need a 270 00:16:19.860 --> 00:16:22.549 100 hour plan. 271 00:16:23.330 --> 00:16:26.669 And so, Dr. Collins, let's talk accountability. 272 00:16:26.690 --> 00:16:30.909 Accountability for the last administration versus results for this neighborhood. 273 00:16:30.970 --> 00:16:36.250 Can Democrats do both or does one eat the other's oxygen? 274 00:16:37.549 --> 00:16:40.490 Oh, no, I think these two work hand in hand, 275 00:16:40.929 --> 00:16:44.450 you know, on because you have to look at, OK, well, 276 00:16:44.929 --> 00:16:50.159 what realistically are the powers? What are the levers that 277 00:16:50.200 --> 00:16:53.259 this new Democratic majority can pull? And so they have 278 00:16:53.279 --> 00:16:57.519 the ability to initiate congressional investigations. They can hold hearings. 279 00:16:57.580 --> 00:17:01.019 They can request records. They can authorize subpoenas. They have 280 00:17:01.039 --> 00:17:05.819 the ability to pursue impeachment per last segment. It's it's 281 00:17:06.039 --> 00:17:10.680 already done. we're already on that beaten path a little 282 00:17:10.700 --> 00:17:12.200 bit by the Republican Party. 283 00:17:12.240 --> 00:17:13.400 That's the crazy part about this. 284 00:17:13.900 --> 00:17:17.900 They're pursuing removal of office, proposing new legislation, and then 285 00:17:17.980 --> 00:17:22.859 negotiations over budgets and spending, as well as criminal prosecutions. 286 00:17:23.140 --> 00:17:26.430 So everything's on the board. Everything's on the table. I 287 00:17:26.450 --> 00:17:29.329 think why they work hand in hand too is because 288 00:17:29.849 --> 00:17:33.470 you're going to have to go after Trump personnel, Trump 289 00:17:33.490 --> 00:17:40.259 administration personnel that have been inadequate for their positions in 290 00:17:40.400 --> 00:17:43.589 order to also pursue policy goals that are going to 291 00:17:43.630 --> 00:17:48.029 satisfy the voters who are the wind beneath the wings 292 00:17:48.069 --> 00:17:52.190 that are bringing this Democratic majority into office right now. 293 00:17:52.509 --> 00:17:56.819 You can't expect a new policy reform to be implemented 294 00:17:57.240 --> 00:18:01.700 by an administration that has brought on more and more incompetence. 295 00:18:02.019 --> 00:18:03.339 You have to attack both. 296 00:18:04.059 --> 00:18:08.700 Improving the actual human capital of government while also coming 297 00:18:08.740 --> 00:18:12.460 through with reform bills that can actually make lives better 298 00:18:12.500 --> 00:18:13.619 for everyday Americans. 299 00:18:13.720 --> 00:18:14.920 That's the goal. 300 00:18:15.160 --> 00:18:19.069 Isn't it wild that we talk about making lives better 301 00:18:19.089 --> 00:18:21.329 for everyday Americans, we talk about it like it's this 302 00:18:21.430 --> 00:18:26.359 radical new thing, right? I mean, if you're in Congress, 303 00:18:26.460 --> 00:18:28.900 the root word in your title is representative. 304 00:18:29.619 --> 00:18:30.480 It's representative. 305 00:18:30.839 --> 00:18:33.289 And You know, there's just a critical mass of American 306 00:18:33.329 --> 00:18:35.609 people that aren't feeling the relief. They're not they're feeling 307 00:18:35.650 --> 00:18:38.950 that their government is actually working against them and not 308 00:18:39.029 --> 00:18:43.549 for them. We're watching the weaponization of government happen right 309 00:18:43.589 --> 00:18:47.269 before our very eyes. You know, Terrence Woodbury says that 310 00:18:47.829 --> 00:18:52.019 black men who drifted towards Trump back in 2024 came 311 00:18:52.079 --> 00:18:54.099 back but remain swing voters. 312 00:18:54.740 --> 00:18:55.599 What do you. 313 00:18:55.539 --> 00:18:59.940 See among young black voters that we're not talking about 314 00:19:00.079 --> 00:19:01.099 enough on airwaves? 315 00:19:02.220 --> 00:19:05.440 Well, we forget the fact that young Black men in 316 00:19:05.480 --> 00:19:09.259 particular are growing up in a very different America. You know, 317 00:19:09.279 --> 00:19:11.640 this is a very different time. You know, think about 318 00:19:11.720 --> 00:19:16.380 where we are economically, right? The workforce has changed. You know, 319 00:19:16.569 --> 00:19:19.559 if you were coming out of college, you know, 10, 320 00:19:19.549 -->
00:19:23.690 especially 20 years ago, the expectation is there are all 321 00:19:23.769 --> 00:19:26.450 these white-collar jobs that are available for you, you know, 322 00:19:26.470 --> 00:19:31.609 whether it's going into engineering, especially emerging technologies. Even if 323 00:19:31.650 --> 00:19:36.720 you were If you're coming out for working class, junior college, 324 00:19:36.740 --> 00:19:40.130 maybe no college at all, there's a manufacturing industry that's 325 00:19:40.150 --> 00:19:42.589 there for you to also be able to make a living, 326 00:19:43.430 --> 00:19:46.630 work towards a pension where you can, provide for your family. 327 00:19:47.309 --> 00:19:50.630 A lot of those economies are gone or they're evaporating 328 00:19:50.670 --> 00:19:55.200 right now. If you're a young black male, 18 to. 329 00:19:54.619 --> 00:19:58.319 29, what are the prospects for you? 330 00:19:58.619 --> 00:20:01.680 And I think that was one of the appeals of Trump, unfortunately, 331 00:20:01.759 --> 00:20:04.839 is that they looked at these economic conditions and they 332 00:20:04.900 --> 00:20:07.859 felt like the Democratic Party wasn't speaking to it. They 333 00:20:07.900 --> 00:20:10.259 gave Trump a chance. But I think they're also quickly 334 00:20:10.299 --> 00:20:12.779 realizing Trump's economic plan. 335 00:20:12.819 --> 00:20:13.940 What was it? Platinum plus? 336 00:20:14.559 --> 00:20:18.099 Oh, the platinum plan. And this is the wild thing. 337 00:20:18.319 --> 00:20:20.940 I heard nobody talk about that platinum plan since he 338 00:20:20.960 --> 00:20:25.500 got elected. Everybody, ooh, the platinum plan versus the opportunity. 339 00:20:24.960 --> 00:20:25.779 Agenda, right? 340 00:20:26.779 --> 00:20:29.779 The opportunity agenda that Kamala Harris had put forward during 341 00:20:29.799 --> 00:20:33.599 her campaign. I heard nothing about the platinum plan. Let 342 00:20:33.640 --> 00:20:35.799 me just say to the people, I think the platinum 343 00:20:35.839 --> 00:20:37.769 plan is in the witness protection program. 344 00:20:39.079 --> 00:20:42.180 It's missing. I didn't even remember. 345 00:20:42.549 --> 00:20:44.509 I just remember it sounded something like a strip club. 346 00:20:44.529 --> 00:20:47.089 That's the only thing that I could eat. And I 347 00:20:47.089 --> 00:20:50.329 was like something something gentlemen's clubby. 348 00:20:50.470 --> 00:20:50.910 Oh, yeah. 349 00:20:50.990 --> 00:20:55.890 Platinum plan. Right. That did nothing for that for that demographic. 350 00:20:56.049 --> 00:20:58.339 And so I think they're looking at the messages that 351 00:20:58.359 --> 00:21:02.619 are coming from the Democratic Party now. Again, this election 352 00:21:02.660 --> 00:21:04.940 was not just about the Democratic Party as a whole. 353 00:21:05.460 --> 00:21:09.819 This was about young Democratic Party leaders. This was the 354 00:21:09.900 --> 00:21:15.869 millennial generation asserting itself as the new frontier within the 355 00:21:15.920 --> 00:21:20.730 Democratic Party, pushing these messages of affordability. And that is 356 00:21:20.789 --> 00:21:22.730 what's bringing young Black voters into the fold. 357 00:21:22.809 --> 00:21:25.789 And speaking of millennials, I mean, one of them, Wes Moore, 358 00:21:26.569 --> 00:21:31.210 who a lot of people believe may put his name 359 00:21:31.259 --> 00:21:33.099 in the hat to run for president of the United 360 00:21:33.119 --> 00:21:33.480 States in 2028. 361 00:21:33.460 --> 00:21:33.599 Yeah. 362 00:21:35.660 --> 00:21:38.059 According to his sort of short list of priorities that 363 00:21:38.099 --> 00:21:41.359 he thinks Democrats should focus on, ending the Iran war, 364 00:21:41.700 --> 00:21:45.420 reversing tariffs and health care cuts, more contracts for black 365 00:21:45.460 --> 00:21:47.299 businesses and apprenticeships. 366 00:21:47.980 --> 00:21:50.410 When we come forward, Dr. Collins, I want to ask you, 367 00:21:51.269 --> 00:21:51.569 which of. 368 00:21:51.549 --> 00:21:56.150 These is realistic with a Republican president holding the veto pin? 369 00:21:56.609 --> 00:21:59.329 You are listening to and streaming the Tavis Miley Show. 370 00:21:59.670 --> 00:22:00.390 More with Dr. 371 00:22:00.490 --> 00:22:01.200 Jonathan E. 372 00:22:01.609 --> 00:22:03.549 Collins of Columbia University when we come forward. 373 00:22:04.079 --> 00:22:06.759 Are listening to and streaming The Tavis Miley Show. I'm 374 00:22:06.779 --> 00:22:07.579 your guest host, Dr. 375 00:22:07.619 --> 00:22:11.920 Nkordelai Korte, and really delighted to be in conversation with 376 00:22:11.980 --> 00:22:13.839 my friend and brother, Dr. 377 00:22:13.880 --> 00:22:15.220 Jonathan E. Collins. 378 00:22:15.400 --> 00:22:19.240 He is an associate professor of political science at Columbia University. 379 00:22:19.319 --> 00:22:25.589 He is the resident democracy scholar on my afternoon drive-time show, 380 00:22:25.619 --> 00:22:30.069 More Perfect Union, on KBLA Talk 1580, Tavis' home station. 381 00:22:31.029 --> 00:22:39.029 And we've been Talking about Hakeem Jeffries, that is the 382 00:22:39.089 --> 00:22:44.029 topic du jour, but most importantly, what needs to get 383 00:22:44.109 --> 00:22:49.390 done in order to keep the momentum that Democrats have 384 00:22:50.859 --> 00:22:53.799 created with that historic election just one week ago today. 385 00:22:53.819 --> 00:22:55.099 Before the break, Dr. 386 00:22:55.119 --> 00:22:58.880 Collins, I gave you the short list of priorities according 387 00:22:58.940 --> 00:23:04.500 to Maryland Governor Wes Moore. And I want to ask you, 388 00:23:05.359 --> 00:23:08.309 which of those is realistic with a Republican president holding 389 00:23:08.640 --> 00:23:13.150 the veto pen, ending the Iran war, reversing the tariffs, 390 00:23:13.670 --> 00:23:16.990 health care cuts, more contracts for Black businesses and apprenticeships? 391 00:23:17.269 -->
00:23:17.930 What's realistic? 392 00:23:20.089 --> 00:23:25.549 Well, I mean, I wouldn't overestimate the ability for the 393 00:23:25.589 --> 00:23:28.650 Democrats to put together a coalition that could override a veto. 394 00:23:29.269 --> 00:23:33.230 And so this has multiple parts to it. On one hand, 395 00:23:33.269 --> 00:23:36.869 there is real concern that President Trump would exercise veto 396 00:23:37.299 --> 00:23:42.359 authority over proposals sent by a Democratic Party majority that 397 00:23:42.380 --> 00:23:42.880 he doesn't like. 398 00:23:44.339 --> 00:23:45.180 There's precedent for that. 399 00:23:45.740 --> 00:23:50.289 Presidents become almost four times more likely to initiate a 400 00:23:50.329 --> 00:23:55.329 veto or to veto a bill when their party is 401 00:23:56.430 --> 00:23:59.549 the minority party or basically when the opposition party controls 402 00:23:59.589 --> 00:24:03.690 both chambers. Again, four times more likely. to veto policies 403 00:24:03.710 --> 00:24:06.569 when this is the case. On the flip side, vetoes 404 00:24:06.589 --> 00:24:09.349 have become rarer and rarer, more and more rare over 405 00:24:09.369 --> 00:24:13.200 the last few presidential cycles. So, you know, President Obama, 406 00:24:13.900 --> 00:24:17.460 even when the opposition party was in control, only initiated 407 00:24:17.480 --> 00:24:18.480 about 10 vetoes. 408 00:24:20.740 --> 00:24:22.640 George Bush, about 11. 409 00:24:22.640 --> 00:24:27.369 You didn't really see the use of veto power until, well, 410 00:24:27.890 --> 00:24:30.349 the use of veto power goes back mainly before the 411 00:24:30.390 --> 00:24:31.490 year 2000. 412 00:24:31.490 --> 00:24:34.440 It's more of a antiquity kind of thing. 413 00:24:35.539 --> 00:24:37.779 The issue with Trump is that if there's anything we've 414 00:24:37.819 --> 00:24:40.240 seen from him, is that he's more of a president 415 00:24:40.269 --> 00:24:43.630 who governs like a Reagan, like a Nixon. These are 416 00:24:43.690 --> 00:24:45.670 also two presidents that use that veto. 417 00:24:45.470 --> 00:24:47.009 Authority a lot. 418 00:24:48.650 --> 00:24:51.490 President Nixon, in fact, all of his vetoes were done 419 00:24:51.710 --> 00:24:56.309 while his party was in the minority where the opposition party. 420 00:24:56.230 --> 00:24:57.470 Was in control. 421 00:24:58.170 --> 00:25:00.170 So if there's any parallel, again, going back to the 422 00:25:00.190 --> 00:25:03.609 first segment with Pete Hegseth, the parallels between. 423 00:25:03.509 --> 00:25:06.329 Nixon administration, Trump administration. 424 00:25:06.349 --> 00:25:09.930 If I'm Westmore and I'm concerned about what might happen, 425 00:25:10.130 --> 00:25:13.049 I'm looking at what happened with that Nixon administration. And 426 00:25:13.089 --> 00:25:18.910 I say, oh, that's probably a prologue of past to 427 00:25:18.970 --> 00:25:20.359 expect here in the next few weeks. 428 00:25:21.079 --> 00:25:24.819 Our elders, they voted out of a sense of duty 429 00:25:24.940 --> 00:25:27.400 as we sort of sort through a lot of the 430 00:25:27.480 --> 00:25:30.859 insights from exit polls from a week ago. It seems 431 00:25:30.880 --> 00:25:34.619 that our young people voted out of dealmaking. 432 00:25:35.220 --> 00:25:38.579 Is that fair? And if so, is that a problem? 433 00:25:41.519 --> 00:25:46.019 I think, you know, dealmaking is a very interesting way 434 00:25:46.059 --> 00:25:50.799 to frame it. If you look at the framing of 435 00:25:50.839 --> 00:25:54.809 the candidates, I would say that there was a new 436 00:25:54.900 --> 00:25:58.170 form of pragmatism that was at place. I think there 437 00:25:58.210 --> 00:26:01.069 has been pressure on the Democratic Party to be less 438 00:26:01.250 --> 00:26:04.210 abstract and Right. You know, one of the things, just 439 00:26:04.269 --> 00:26:06.630 an exercise that I did during one of my classes 440 00:26:06.670 --> 00:26:09.150 last week, I asked my students, what was the Democratic 441 00:26:09.190 --> 00:26:12.950 Party messaging in the 2024 election? 442 00:26:13.609 --> 00:26:13.750 Right. 443 00:26:13.809 --> 00:26:16.849 What was the brand of the Democratic Party? And they 444 00:26:16.910 --> 00:26:20.190 basically arrived at, well, not Trump. I think it was 445 00:26:20.230 --> 00:26:21.970 a little bit more complicated than that, but that was 446 00:26:22.009 --> 00:26:24.910 kind of the sort of the upshot that people took 447 00:26:24.970 --> 00:26:27.470 away from the Democratic Party's brand. And so what was 448 00:26:27.509 --> 00:26:33.440 the brand for 2026? And they said affordability. And so 449 00:26:34.599 --> 00:26:37.880 I wouldn't call it deal making. I would call it pragmatism. 450 00:26:38.160 --> 00:26:41.500 I think the Democratic Party has been forced to be practical. 451 00:26:42.119 --> 00:26:45.220 Tell me how any opposition to Trump, again, is going 452 00:26:45.289 --> 00:26:48.490 to help everyday people. How is it going to put 453 00:26:48.569 --> 00:26:52.849 more money in people's pockets? And so I think that's 454 00:26:52.910 --> 00:26:57.789 the choice that young and older voters made in the midterms. 455 00:26:58.650 --> 00:27:01.509 On election night, the president told The New York Times 456 00:27:01.549 --> 00:27:05.970 that he was absolutely willing, quotes, absolutely willing to accept 457 00:27:06.009 --> 00:27:09.170 the results. But by Sunday, he posted on Truth Social, quotes, 458 00:27:09.230 --> 00:27:13.559 does anybody really believe that this election was honest? He 459 00:27:13.599 --> 00:27:17.839 wrote that that early voting dumps were were too big 460 00:27:17.960 --> 00:27:21.319 to overcome and that it's all about the machines, which 461 00:27:21.380 --> 00:27:24.730 are far more important than the voter. Election officials across 462 00:27:24.769 --> 00:27:28.630 the country have not raised major concerns about early voting
463 00:27:28.670 --> 00:27:33.529 or machines in these races. And in many cases, particularly 464 00:27:33.849 --> 00:27:37.230 in many of the red states where Democrats won, Republicans 465 00:27:37.549 --> 00:27:38.450 run the elections. 466 00:27:39.190 --> 00:27:44.170 And so Dr. Collins, he accepted the results, then unaccepted it. 467 00:27:44.789 --> 00:27:47.289 Is this a warning shot for 2028 or is this 468 00:27:47.309 --> 00:27:49.470 just a man venting about a bad week? 469 00:27:50.680 --> 00:27:50.940 Dr. 470 00:27:50.960 --> 00:27:54.799 Corte, this is not a warning for 2028. This is 471 00:27:54.980 --> 00:28:01.960 a warning for 2027. So what's going to happen in 472 00:28:02.119 --> 00:28:06.849 January of 2027? These new members of Congress are going 473 00:28:06.869 --> 00:28:11.890 to be sworn in. Do you remember what happened in 474 00:28:13.069 --> 00:28:18.250 January of 2020? January 6th of 2020. 475 00:28:18.250 --> 00:28:19.970 Can't forget it was right there in Washington, D.C. 476 00:28:21.509 --> 00:28:22.009 You were there. 477 00:28:22.640 --> 00:28:32.170 Now, back in November, President Trump gave lip service to 478 00:28:32.289 --> 00:28:38.059 accepting the results of the presidential election. He also started 479 00:28:38.700 --> 00:28:41.059 to sort of drop these tea leaves that he has 480 00:28:41.140 --> 00:28:45.940 questions about voting machines and the vote counts. 481 00:28:45.700 --> 00:28:46.549 In certain states. 482 00:28:47.490 --> 00:28:49.170 All of this started to leak through, but it didn't 483 00:28:49.230 --> 00:28:55.599 bubble up. until January. So again, I hear what he's 484 00:28:55.640 --> 00:28:58.130 saying in interviews. To your point, I saw what he 485 00:28:58.150 --> 00:29:02.109 said on Truth Social. But I wrote an op-ed about 486 00:29:02.150 --> 00:29:03.910 this in the Washington Post that you can check out. 487 00:29:04.869 --> 00:29:07.609 This is my big fear, is that when it really 488 00:29:07.670 --> 00:29:12.329 comes down to it, that Trump supporters will not actually 489 00:29:13.009 --> 00:29:16.880 accept the outcome of the midterm elections. And there is 490 00:29:16.930 --> 00:29:23.420 historical precedent for there to be major political violence should 491 00:29:23.519 --> 00:29:28.839 this not happen. So again, believe it when you see it, people. 492 00:29:29.599 --> 00:29:32.769 Wait and see what happens when it's swearing in time 493 00:29:33.029 --> 00:29:34.970 in January, because it looks like we're going to get 494 00:29:35.029 --> 00:29:38.990 closer and closer and closer to Trump, again, starting to 495 00:29:39.029 --> 00:29:43.200 put a battery in the back of his supporters if 496 00:29:43.279 --> 00:29:46.000 it means that he can potentially retain power. 497 00:29:45.900 --> 00:29:47.980 But even in putting that battery in the pack of 498 00:29:48.039 --> 00:29:50.720 his supporters it seems like a lot of his supporters 499 00:29:50.920 --> 00:29:53.289 you know have left him by the roadside i mean 500 00:29:53.309 --> 00:29:55.210 you know i think i was reading somewhere that uh 501 00:29:55.650 --> 00:29:59.569 there's a County in Mississippi that is home to like 502 00:29:59.609 --> 00:30:02.470 the grand wizard of the KKK. And even that County 503 00:30:02.529 --> 00:30:05.910 in Mississippi voted for Scott Cologne. And so, you know, 504 00:30:05.950 --> 00:30:08.690 I think, you know, there's a lot of buyer's remorse 505 00:30:09.549 --> 00:30:14.569 that it seems a lot of, of Trump voters, MAGA voters, 506 00:30:15.410 --> 00:30:20.190 even independent voters that supported him in 2024 are experiencing. 507 00:30:20.230 --> 00:30:23.869 And so I, you know, you know, Maybe we're wise 508 00:30:23.930 --> 00:30:29.190 or not to think that that reality means that any 509 00:30:29.250 --> 00:30:33.279 attempt at January 6th, the sequel ain't going to happen. 510 00:30:34.119 --> 00:30:37.200 No, I think that's fair. You know, if you also 511 00:30:37.279 --> 00:30:39.059 look at the difference between 2020 and 2026. 2020 was 512 00:30:39.079 --> 00:30:40.660 a very close election. 2026 was a massacre. 513 00:30:40.680 --> 00:30:52.769 It was a blowout. This was it was not. a 514 00:30:52.849 --> 00:30:56.890 close call whatsoever. It was a destruction. It was a demolition. 515 00:30:59.660 --> 00:31:05.500 Basically, if the East Wing of the White House, what 516 00:31:05.539 --> 00:31:07.019 he did to the East Wing of the White House 517 00:31:07.279 --> 00:31:13.829 is what voters did to Republicans in office in 2026. 518 00:31:13.829 --> 00:31:14.589 Is that what you're saying, Dr. 519 00:31:14.710 --> 00:31:14.950 Collins? 520 00:31:15.029 --> 00:31:20.230 Yeah, exactly. Destroyed it, demolished it, ruined it. 521 00:31:21.210 --> 00:31:22.789 We go, we go, we go come back to that 522 00:31:22.809 --> 00:31:25.230 in a moment, but I also want to talk about, uh, 523 00:31:25.349 --> 00:31:29.910 Wes Moore because, uh, uh, some good news. Um, Wes Moore, 524 00:31:29.950 --> 00:31:32.799 he told the griot that being America's only black governor 525 00:31:32.839 --> 00:31:35.579 was never a title that he wanted. And he added 526 00:31:35.619 --> 00:31:38.140 that making history is not the assignment as chair of 527 00:31:38.180 --> 00:31:42.039 the national governor's association. He campaigned for Keisha Lance bottoms 528 00:31:42.119 --> 00:31:45.440 and David Crowley and Aaron Ford, uh, and all three 529 00:31:45.500 --> 00:31:50.380 of them, one, uh, and one, uh, handedly. Uh, and, uh, 530 00:31:50.730 --> 00:31:54.220 We're going to talk about that and more when we 531 00:31:54.259 --> 00:31:57.079 come forward. You're listening to and streaming the Tavis Smiley Show. 532 00:31:57.299 --> 00:32:00.819 This gentleman right here in the Morehouse swag, that's Dr. 533 00:32:00.839 --> 00:32:03.599 Jonathan E. Collins of Columbia University. You better know. 534 00:32:03.619 -->
00:32:09.109 From the Mert Park with love, this is Tavis Smiley. 535 00:32:14.009 --> 00:32:19.150 When your child isn't feeling well, Mommy, they need a 536 00:32:19.190 --> 00:32:22.420 good night's sleep. That's when to reach for Vicks VapoRub. 537 00:32:23.240 --> 00:32:26.089 Applying a gentle layer of VapoRub on your child's chest 538 00:32:26.349 --> 00:32:29.650 releases soothing vapors that start working right away and provides 539 00:32:29.710 --> 00:32:32.630 relief that lasts up to eight hours. It's one small 540 00:32:32.789 --> 00:32:36.170 act that helps everyone get a good night's sleep. Try 541 00:32:36.230 --> 00:32:39.269 Vicks VapoRub and trust a brand trusted by parents for 542 00:32:39.390 --> 00:32:41.950 over 130 years. Use as directed. 543 00:32:41.970 --> 00:32:45.089 An official message from Medicare. 544 00:32:45.539 --> 00:32:48.759 Medicare plans change from one year to the next. And 545 00:32:48.819 --> 00:32:51.619 this year, it's important for you to review your current 546 00:32:51.660 --> 00:32:55.460 coverage and compare all your options during Medicare Open Enrollment. 547 00:32:55.960 --> 00:32:59.769 Compare health plans, drug coverage, and costs. See if you 548 00:32:59.809 --> 00:33:02.569 can save some money, and don't forget to make sure 549 00:33:02.630 --> 00:33:07.809 your drugs are covered. Open Enrollment ends December 7th. Visit Medicare.gov 550 00:33:08.089 --> 00:33:10.380 or call 1-800-MEDICARE. 551 00:33:10.700 --> 00:33:12.960 Paid for by the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services. 552 00:33:13.349 --> 00:33:17.509 It just smells like nostalgic breakfast memories. Hey, I'm Ellie. 553 00:33:17.589 --> 00:33:18.250 Hey, I'm Taylor. 554 00:33:18.329 --> 00:33:20.609 And a little thing we love about the Chick-fil-A Chicken 555 00:33:20.630 --> 00:33:22.230 and Waffles Breakfast Sandwich is. 556 00:33:22.369 --> 00:33:24.250 It's the perfect mix of sweet and savory. 557 00:33:24.349 --> 00:33:28.359 The combination of crispy, juicy, savory chicken with the sweetness 558 00:33:28.450 --> 00:33:30.140 and fluffy softness of a waffle. 559 00:33:30.380 --> 00:33:31.920 And the bacon just makes it better. 560 00:33:32.019 --> 00:33:34.579 Plus the fact that it's handheld, 10 out of 10. 561 00:33:34.579 --> 00:33:35.880 Every bite is a home run. 562 00:33:36.140 --> 00:33:38.480 Order the Chick-fil-A Chicken and Waffles Breakfast Sandwich with a 563 00:33:38.519 --> 00:33:40.819 caramel cream cold brew on the Chick-fil-A app today. 564 00:33:41.039 --> 00:33:42.599 Real guests paid for their testimonials. 565 00:33:43.430 --> 00:33:46.430 Hey, Dad, how do airplanes fly? 566 00:33:46.670 --> 00:33:47.630 What's in this box? 567 00:33:49.089 --> 00:33:49.829 Can I touch this? 568 00:33:51.009 --> 00:33:52.309 Where does sand come from? 569 00:33:53.599 --> 00:33:56.559 Is this tree good for climbing? What happens if I 570 00:33:56.599 --> 00:33:57.700 mix these two things together? 571 00:33:58.660 --> 00:33:59.720 How are babies made? 572 00:34:01.039 --> 00:34:02.000 What does this thing do? 573 00:34:03.599 --> 00:34:07.380 Kids are curious about everything, including guns. Talking to them 574 00:34:07.420 --> 00:34:09.880 about gun safety in your home is a good first step, 575 00:34:10.239 --> 00:34:13.500 but you can do more. Always keep your guns locked, unloaded, 576 00:34:13.699 --> 00:34:17.010 and stored separately from ammunition. Storing your guns securely is 577 00:34:17.050 --> 00:34:20.469 the best way to prevent family fire, including unintentional shootings. 578 00:34:20.849 --> 00:34:23.449 For more information on safe gun storage and ways to 579 00:34:23.489 --> 00:34:28.530 keep your family safe, visit endfamilyfire.org. That's endfamilyfire.org. 580 00:34:28.949 --> 00:34:32.739 What do we keep in the attic? What's this thing called? 581 00:34:33.630 --> 00:34:35.510 Can I ride my bike backwards? 582 00:34:36.670 --> 00:34:39.010 Like I said, kids are curious. It's up to us 583 00:34:39.050 --> 00:34:41.949 to keep them safe. Brought to you by N Family Fire, Brady, 584 00:34:42.070 --> 00:34:42.800 and the Ad Council. 585 00:34:44.920 --> 00:34:47.940 Helping to make you the most knowledgeable person in your 586 00:34:48.000 --> 00:34:50.360 circle of friends. This is Tavis Smiley. 587 00:34:51.659 --> 00:34:54.440 You are listening to and streaming the Tavis Smiley Show. 588 00:34:54.480 --> 00:34:56.559 I'm your guest host, Dr. Nakordelai Korte. 589 00:34:56.639 --> 00:34:58.119 He is Dr. Jonathan E. 590 00:34:58.179 --> 00:35:03.340 Collins, professor of political science at Columbia University. and proud 591 00:35:03.599 --> 00:35:07.179 Morehouse man. In case you didn't know, for those of 592 00:35:07.199 --> 00:35:09.079 you that are streaming us live right now, you can 593 00:35:09.139 --> 00:35:14.420 see the Morehouse swag is swagging. And so there you 594 00:35:14.460 --> 00:35:18.530 have it. Speaking of swag, let me tell you something. 595 00:35:18.550 --> 00:35:24.030 Governor Westmore got swag. I have interviewed him multiple times, 596 00:35:24.909 --> 00:35:26.730 and let me just say just the. 597 00:35:26.969 --> 00:35:27.150 the. 598 00:35:30.199 --> 00:35:33.239 Generosity of spirit is alive and well. 599 00:35:34.480 --> 00:35:38.360 There are a lot of public officials out there that 600 00:35:39.719 --> 00:35:42.969 are very conservative about how much they support other public officials. 601 00:35:43.030 --> 00:35:43.469 He's not. 602 00:35:44.650 --> 00:35:48.610 He is actually quite generous and has been on the 603 00:35:48.650 --> 00:35:52.190 campaign trail supporting a number of folks. He made it 604 00:35:52.230 --> 00:35:55.050 his business to make sure that Keisha Lance Bottoms and 605 00:35:55.070 --> 00:35:58.389 David Crowley and Aaron Ford And I would also add 606 00:35:58.829 --> 00:36:03.269 Jermaine Johnson, who was unsuccessful in his bid for governor 607 00:36:03.349 -->
00:36:07.300 of South Carolina, but I'm hearing that we may see 608 00:36:07.340 --> 00:36:11.320 him emerge as a South Carolina Senate candidate in 2028. But, 609 00:36:11.619 --> 00:36:14.800 you know, Governor Moore has helped to lay the groundwork. 610 00:36:15.539 --> 00:36:18.940 And I've got to ask you, Dr. Collins, with Governor 611 00:36:18.960 --> 00:36:24.780 Moore saying that making history isn't the assignment, but for 612 00:36:24.949 --> 00:36:28.670 a 10-year-old in Milwaukee seeing a Black governor for the 613 00:36:28.710 --> 00:36:31.570 first time, isn't that part of the assignment? It may 614 00:36:31.610 --> 00:36:33.699 not be all of the assignment, but isn't that part 615 00:36:33.739 --> 00:36:33.949 of it? 616 00:36:35.159 --> 00:36:35.639 Well, yeah. 617 00:36:36.139 --> 00:36:39.139 So I think, you know, Westmore is right in that 618 00:36:39.340 --> 00:36:42.579 the assignment is not to make history, but we can't, 619 00:36:42.980 --> 00:36:45.679 we have to appreciate when history is made, to your point, 620 00:36:45.719 --> 00:36:48.559 because it changes the view of what's possible for the 621 00:36:48.619 --> 00:36:52.280 next generation, right? You know, and the thing that I've 622 00:36:52.340 --> 00:36:58.510 loved about Westmore's approach to this question of being well, still, 623 00:36:58.550 --> 00:37:02.489 I guess, until, you know, we actually see the swearing 624 00:37:02.570 --> 00:37:05.409 in of the new governors, him being the only black governor, 625 00:37:05.510 --> 00:37:09.010 his philosophy on this has been, it ain't no fun 626 00:37:09.110 --> 00:37:10.860 if the homies can't have enough, right? 627 00:37:10.900 --> 00:37:16.619 Like, he's wanted. 628 00:37:15.219 --> 00:37:20.780 More of us in these positions leading states as the executive. 629 00:37:21.480 --> 00:37:25.679 And to see him not only have that sentiment but 630 00:37:25.739 --> 00:37:29.659 then be at the forefront of congratulating and supporting a 631 00:37:29.820 --> 00:37:32.739 lot of the black, all of these black gubernatorials, a 632 00:37:32.760 --> 00:37:34.480 lot of, because Byron Donald's. 633 00:37:36.079 --> 00:37:39.030 Pin in that is a whole separate conversation. 634 00:37:39.550 --> 00:37:43.050 But to see Westmore wrapping arms around Keisha Lance Bottoms, 635 00:37:43.530 --> 00:37:47.289 supporting David Crowley, Aaron Ford, what we haven't been talking 636 00:37:47.349 --> 00:37:51.780 about too is even Stacey Plaskett in the Virgin Islands. 637 00:37:52.530 --> 00:37:56.269 I mean, this is, We haven't seen this level of 638 00:37:56.809 --> 00:38:00.369 Black political uplift since Reconstruction. 639 00:38:00.530 --> 00:38:00.929 That's right. 640 00:38:01.010 --> 00:38:02.389 Right after the Civil War. 641 00:38:03.690 --> 00:38:07.869 And for Westmore to really be the mouthpiece for it, 642 00:38:09.679 --> 00:38:10.900 I couldn't pick a better. 643 00:38:12.219 --> 00:38:13.960 Person to be that. He's
just been phenomenal. 644 00:38:14.079 --> 00:38:15.800 Yeah. And for so many people out there that think 645 00:38:15.840 --> 00:38:20.090 that somehow, some way Black political power is on the decline. 646 00:38:20.110 --> 00:38:22.519 I mean, how many stories that we hear during the 647 00:38:22.559 --> 00:38:26.199 last cycle of folks attempting to write the obituary on 648 00:38:26.280 --> 00:38:29.820 Black political power in the United States, particularly in the South. 649 00:38:31.219 --> 00:38:34.639 And one week ago today, we took out our usher 650 00:38:34.679 --> 00:38:36.539 fingers and we said, watch this, right? 651 00:38:37.110 --> 00:38:37.989 That's exactly what we did. 652 00:38:38.179 --> 00:38:42.010 When we come forward, five Black governors, including one Republican 653 00:38:42.150 --> 00:38:45.449 in Florida. What does Byron Donalds win? What does that 654 00:38:45.510 --> 00:38:51.860 tell us about Black political diversity, our final moments with Dr. 655 00:38:52.059 --> 00:38:52.679 Jonathan E. 656 00:38:52.699 --> 00:38:53.059 Collins. 657 00:38:53.079 --> 00:38:55.000 You're listening to and streaming the Tavis Smiley Show. 658 00:38:55.119 --> 00:38:56.659 Alright, in our remaining minutes with Dr. 659 00:38:56.699 --> 00:38:58.780 Jonathan E. Collins of Columbia University. 660 00:38:58.820 --> 00:38:59.079 Dr. 661 00:38:59.099 --> 00:39:04.530 Collins, we're talking about Byron Donalds now. Give us your 662 00:39:04.590 --> 00:39:09.489 quick take. Five black governors, including one Republican in Florida. 663 00:39:09.570 --> 00:39:11.449 What does Byron Donalds win? What does it tell us 664 00:39:11.510 --> 00:39:15.059 about black political diversity in America? 665 00:39:17.519 --> 00:39:22.349 It tells us that We are, on one hand, very diverse, 666 00:39:22.829 --> 00:39:25.170 but on the other hand, we do have to do 667 00:39:25.309 --> 00:39:26.429 some self-reflecting. 668 00:39:26.489 --> 00:39:29.570 Some of us have to do some self-reflecting. There's irony 669 00:39:29.610 --> 00:39:29.969 to the body. 670 00:39:30.320 --> 00:39:34.800 Donald's election in that he is this Black conservative that 671 00:39:34.940 --> 00:39:40.349 is all about small government, weakening government, ending government programs. 672 00:39:40.829 --> 00:39:46.070 And yet, Byron Donald's life would not be possible without 673 00:39:46.429 --> 00:39:50.659 government programs. He was arrested as a teenager on marijuana 674 00:39:50.699 --> 00:39:54.550 charges and ended up never being convicted because of a 675 00:39:55.329 --> 00:40:00.710 pretrial program that essentially brought him in and prevented him 676 00:40:00.750 --> 00:40:02.289 essentially from going to trial and put him on a 677 00:40:02.329 --> 00:40:07.400 path to a behavioral recovery. He was also convicted of 678 00:40:07.659 --> 00:40:12.500 bank fraud and had his record sealed and expunged through 679 00:40:12.599 --> 00:40:17.210 another program that did so for convicted felons. And so 680 00:40:17.230 --> 00:40:21.679 without these types of interventions that support Black folks who 681 00:40:21.699 --> 00:40:25.000 get caught up in the criminal justice system, Byron Donalds 682 00:40:25.019 --> 00:40:27.940 wouldn't be where he is today. But that same politician 683 00:40:28.619 --> 00:40:32.159 distances himself from the types of programs that made his 684 00:40:32.239 --> 00:40:35.260 life possible. So I'm glad at the political diversity because 685 00:40:35.539 --> 00:40:37.340 it's good to show that Black people, we have different 686 00:40:37.360 --> 00:40:41.719 views and different perspectives. But I'm concerned about a man 687 00:40:41.780 --> 00:40:45.940 who is not reflective of enough of how the policies 688 00:40:45.960 --> 00:40:49.150 that he supports create the kind of harm that would 689 00:40:49.190 --> 00:40:51.219 have made his life totally different. 690 00:40:51.239 --> 00:40:52.679 We'll have to leave it there. 691 00:40:52.699 --> 00:40:52.960 Dr. 692 00:40:53.000 --> 00:40:56.159 Jonathan Collins of the Teachers College at Columbia University. 693 00:40:56.219 --> 00:40:58.760 Thank you, bro. Where can people go to follow you 694 00:40:58.880 --> 00:40:59.619 and follow your work? 695 00:41:00.559 --> 00:41:03.800 Yeah. Professor Collins on the socials. 696 00:41:06.010 --> 00:41:06.199 Prof. 697 00:41:06.219 --> 00:41:07.630 John Collins on Twitter X. 698 00:41:08.690 --> 00:41:11.010 Look me up. Jonathan thinks if you're looking for my 699 00:41:11.030 --> 00:41:15.429 YouTube content. And of course, a more perfect union. 700 00:41:15.469 --> 00:41:16.469 That's right. That's right. 701 00:41:16.489 --> 00:41:16.929 That's right. 702 00:41:17.610 --> 00:41:19.750 We'd love to see it and love to see you 703 00:41:19.829 --> 00:41:23.030 at the top of the next hour. One Democrat told 704 00:41:23.050 --> 00:41:28.059 the Trump administration to lawyer up. TV judge and Yale-trained 705 00:41:28.119 --> 00:41:31.780 attorney Tanya Acker is here to tell us whether that's 706 00:41:31.820 --> 00:41:35.969 a threat, a promise, or a press release. This is 707 00:41:35.989 --> 00:41:36.969 the Tavis Smiley Show. 708 00:41:37.010 --> 00:41:37.750 More when we come forward.
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