Full Transcript for Dr. Cornel West & Bishop William J. Barber II join Tavis Smiley

anti-poverty, 73 00:04:03.659 --> 00:04:08.340 and anti-police brutality campaign against Biden and Harris. So we 74 00:04:08.379 --> 00:04:11.870 ran against both parties. Both parties did what they could 75 00:04:14.310 --> 00:04:18.009 to push our message to the side. So we couldn't 76 00:04:18.050 --> 00:04:21.730 talk about abolishing poverty. We couldn't talk about abolishing ICE. 77 00:04:22.079 --> 00:04:25.339 We couldn't talk about getting public control over these monopolies. 78 00:04:25.540 --> 00:04:29.920 We couldn't talk about abolishing police brutality, abolishing police murder. 79 00:04:30.379 --> 00:04:34.720 All those issues that we raised became very difficult to highlight. 80 00:04:34.980 --> 00:04:38.459 And then you got Democratic Party operatives. They spent millions 81 00:04:38.560 --> 00:04:40.740 and billions of dollars to keep us off the ballot 82 00:04:40.899 --> 00:04:44.639 because they thought we were taking a vote from Sister Harris. 83 00:04:44.680 --> 00:04:46.339 We said, no, we want to vote for Sister Harris. 84 00:04:46.740 --> 00:04:49.319 Vote for Sister Harris. Nobody owns your vote. If you 85 00:04:49.360 --> 00:04:52.680 want to vote for someone who understands just how decrepit 86 00:04:52.720 --> 00:04:57.230 the two-party system is, both parties beyond redemption, vote for us. 87 00:04:57.290 --> 00:04:59.329 But we just want you to raise your voice. We 88 00:04:59.370 --> 00:05:01.490 come out of the black freedom struggle and our anthem 89 00:05:01.550 --> 00:05:01.939 is lifted. 90 00:05:02.339 --> 00:05:02.959 Every voice. 91 00:05:03.300 --> 00:05:05.879 So when you get the vicious eyes and think, you say, 92 00:05:06.019 --> 00:05:08.360 Oh Lord, have mercy. And I, I hate to have 93 00:05:08.379 --> 00:05:11.389 to put you through this, put brother Mark to this. Now, 94 00:05:11.449 --> 00:05:14.589 Mark Lamont Hill came, came through songs and wait a minute. 95 00:05:14.629 --> 00:05:17.490 Now we know that Wes ain't tied to these gangsters 96 00:05:17.569 --> 00:05:20.589 on the road. What is going on here? But you 97 00:05:20.610 --> 00:05:23.209 can't tell us the bottom line is, you know, and 98 00:05:23.310 --> 00:05:26.560 I know we don't love black people for black people 99 00:05:26.579 --> 00:05:28.959 to love us back. We love black people because black 100 00:05:29.000 --> 00:05:34.860 people are worthy of being loved. period. We following Jesus, brother. 101 00:05:34.879 --> 00:05:36.839 We in the world, but not of it. We against 102 00:05:36.920 --> 00:05:40.019 the grain. We don't love in order to get returned. 103 00:05:40.279 --> 00:05:43.199 We love because we know that's the right thing to do. 104 00:05:43.259 --> 00:05:45.250 And God commands us to love. 105 00:05:46.019 --> 00:05:47.750 I love these Negroes too, but I'm going to chastise 106 00:05:47.759 --> 00:05:50.750 them when they're wrong. And they were wrong for texting me. Oh, no, no, no. 107 00:05:50.829 --> 00:05:55.250 Love, love me. Protect and correct. We know that now. 108 00:05:55.410 --> 00:05:55.589 Yeah. 109 00:05:55.610 --> 00:05:58.189 But when the article tells you that There's no money 110 00:05:58.209 --> 00:06:00.250 that went from Musk to West. When the article tells 111 00:06:00.290 --> 00:06:04.910 you there's no data, no information, no evidence whatsoever that 112 00:06:04.990 --> 00:06:07.850 West was even aware of it. But then show me 113 00:06:08.029 --> 00:06:11.649 one district, somebody just show me any congressional district anywhere, 114 00:06:11.990 --> 00:06:16.329 California to the Carolinas, where West had enough votes that 115 00:06:16.379 --> 00:06:19.040 it kept Kamala from beating Donald Trump in that district. 116 00:06:19.079 --> 00:06:21.600 There ain't one. You can't show me one district anywhere 117 00:06:21.639 --> 00:06:24.009 where that happened. And If you listen to West on 118 00:06:24.029 --> 00:06:27.689 the campaign trail, every speech the Negro gives, he's going 119 00:06:27.779 --> 00:06:31.240 in on this billionaire class, including Elon Musk, by name. 120 00:06:31.600 --> 00:06:34.319 We have got to be more sophisticated. I'm not saying 121 00:06:34.339 --> 00:06:37.100 it just because he's my friend. I'd defend him if 122 00:06:37.139 --> 00:06:42.209 he weren't against this vicious lie that mainstream media tells. 123 00:06:42.250 --> 00:06:44.750 And we fall for that banana in the tailpipe, y'all. 124 00:06:45.110 --> 00:06:47.670 We have got to be more sophisticated. I'm done with 125 00:06:47.689 --> 00:06:51.199 it when we come forward. Bishop William J. Barber joins Dr. 126 00:06:51.240 --> 00:06:54.110 West tonight. You're listening to Tavis Smile. One footnote to 127 00:06:54.129 --> 00:06:55.970 the conversation about Elon Musk and Dr. 128 00:06:55.990 --> 00:06:56.250 West. 129 00:06:56.290 --> 00:06:58.649 I love, I love, love, love, Doc, having a bright audience, 130 00:06:58.709 --> 00:07:00.509 as you well know, all across the country. They listen 131 00:07:00.550 --> 00:07:03.050 every day. I know you hear it when you travel. 132 00:07:03.069 --> 00:07:04.730 I hear it when I travel, and I'm grateful to 133 00:07:04.850 --> 00:07:06.620 all these listeners across the country. By the way, we 134 00:07:06.629 --> 00:07:09.439 got a big announcement on Wednesday. I can tease you 135 00:07:09.459 --> 00:07:14.240 with it right now. We just signed contracts for five 136 00:07:14.339 --> 00:07:16.379 new affiliates picking up this program. We'll tell you who 137 00:07:16.399 --> 00:07:19.149 they are. Day after Election Day. We can't get to 138 00:07:19.189 --> 00:07:20.769 that until we get past Election Day. But we got 139 00:07:20.810 --> 00:07:23.240 five new stations picking us up across the country. And 140 00:07:23.259 --> 00:07:25.439 we are excited about that. A quick footnote to that 141 00:07:25.480 --> 00:07:27.259 conversation about Musk and Dr. 142 00:07:27.279 -->

00:07:27.500 West. 143 00:07:28.060 --> 00:07:32.319 Tavis, and lest we forget, it was Kamala Harris who 144 00:07:32.360 --> 00:07:36.939 accepted donations from Donald and Ivanka Trump for a 2014 145 00:07:36.939 --> 00:07:41.519 AG campaign in California. Three years after Trump had publicly 146 00:07:41.600 --> 00:07:46.300 questioned Obama's birthplace and demanded to see his long-form birth 147 00:07:46.339 --> 00:07:49.980 certificate in 2011. So don't start talking to me or Dr. 148 00:07:50.000 --> 00:07:54.740 West about who's taking money from whom. I'm done. I'm 149 00:07:54.759 --> 00:07:58.000 done with it. But just a footnote, again, bright audience. 150 00:07:58.060 --> 00:08:00.519 These folk are tracking this thing, and I appreciate that 151 00:08:00.560 --> 00:08:03.519 person reaching out with that particular comment. All right, let's 152 00:08:03.540 --> 00:08:05.860 pivot now to Bishop William J. Barber II. He has 153 00:08:05.879 --> 00:08:10.879 been crisscrossing the country, organizing poor and low-wage workers, and 154 00:08:10.899 --> 00:08:12.779 we're honored to have him join Dr. West and I 155 00:08:12.800 --> 00:08:14.660 for a few minutes here. And then Doc and I 156 00:08:14.680 --> 00:08:18.480 will talk together a bit more on the back half 157 00:08:18.540 --> 00:08:20.120 of this hour. Bishop Barber, good to have you back. 158 00:08:20.139 --> 00:08:20.720 How are you, sir? 159 00:08:22.310 --> 00:08:25.410 Man, I'm glad to be with you, listening to the elements, 160 00:08:25.449 --> 00:08:27.970 listening to Dr. West. And Dr. West, I wanted to 161 00:08:28.029 --> 00:08:31.470 say something to you. You know, every time we are 162 00:08:31.509 --> 00:08:35.710 rising and raising the critical points, the same forces come. 163 00:08:35.789 --> 00:08:37.720 I remember when we were in the middle of Moral Monday, 164 00:08:38.220 --> 00:08:41.039 and when it got big and people were organizing and 165 00:08:41.500 --> 00:08:44.360 folks' numbers dropped all of a sudden, Somebody came out 166 00:08:44.399 --> 00:08:47.360 and said, I had $ 10 million. And I told one 167 00:08:47.399 --> 00:08:48.940 of them, I wish I had it, but I didn't. 168 00:08:49.639 --> 00:08:53.279 And I had children in school. And they had doubt 169 00:08:53.320 --> 00:08:56.480 that I had $ 10 million. And they put some crap together. 170 00:08:56.639 --> 00:08:59.320 And then, you know, I mean, it's just and some 171 00:08:59.360 --> 00:09:02.120 people will. I don't know if it's because people are 172 00:09:02.159 --> 00:09:05.899 so wanting to. Just believe a leader once you get 173 00:09:06.080 --> 00:09:09.519 up does something crazy or whatever it is. But, you know, 174 00:09:09.879 --> 00:09:11.679 as you always say, you got to love people because 175 00:09:11.720 --> 00:09:13.759 they need to be loved. But as Tabitha said, you 176 00:09:13.779 --> 00:09:16.379 have to correct them. But these are the kinds of 177 00:09:16.419 --> 00:09:20.120 things that come when we cut through. And we always 178 00:09:20.159 --> 00:09:22.759 remind that Jesus we serve. They call him everything from 179 00:09:22.840 --> 00:09:28.299 a wine bibbler to a womanizer. I mean, that's just 180 00:09:28.330 --> 00:09:28.870 the reality. 181 00:09:29.870 --> 00:09:31.370 That's it. 182 00:09:31.690 --> 00:09:34.190 And for us, the bottom line, the bottom line is 183 00:09:34.570 --> 00:09:38.149 Tavis is putting a smile on Joyce, his mama's face. 184 00:09:38.750 --> 00:09:42.019 You putting a smile on Eleanor, your mother's face, and 185 00:09:42.059 --> 00:09:45.019 I'm putting a smile on Irene's face. And that's a 186 00:09:45.019 --> 00:09:47.600 standard that the world might not understand, but we know 187 00:09:47.639 --> 00:09:48.879 that's when that are back. 188 00:09:49.120 --> 00:09:50.080 That's it. 189 00:09:50.120 --> 00:09:50.620 That's it. 190 00:09:50.779 --> 00:09:51.539 That's it. That's it. 191 00:09:51.580 --> 00:09:53.559 You know, Tavis, you said I was crisscrossing. One of 192 00:09:53.580 --> 00:09:56.919 the things I've been doing is I've been using this 193 00:09:57.659 --> 00:10:00.340 story of David taking on around the country and Goliath 194 00:10:00.799 --> 00:10:03.580 as a metaphor for a political organized, not just a 195 00:10:03.600 --> 00:10:07.600 bedtime story. And the fact that Goliath held a 40-day 196 00:10:07.639 --> 00:10:11.169 press conference every morning and every evening because he was lying, 197 00:10:11.250 --> 00:10:15.269 he was lewd, he was low self-esteem. But the backstory 198 00:10:15.370 --> 00:10:19.820 of that text is the Philistines were greatly afraid of 199 00:10:19.940 --> 00:10:22.360 the people who were marginalized, who were coming together. If 200 00:10:22.379 --> 00:10:24.679 you go back to the fourth chapter, I know some 201 00:10:24.700 --> 00:10:27.200 of your folks know the scriptures. They were afraid of 202 00:10:27.240 --> 00:10:30.639 the God of liberation, of theology of liberation. And they 203 00:10:30.679 --> 00:10:33.529 were trying to do everything they could. And David, because 204 00:10:33.570 --> 00:10:37.409 he loved his people, was willing to take on this giant. 205 00:10:37.470 --> 00:10:39.950 And one of the things I've been talking about is 206 00:10:40.009 --> 00:10:43.100 how inside of that story it says if you're going 207 00:10:43.120 --> 00:10:47.179 to face the lies of racism or voter suppression and 208 00:10:47.659 --> 00:10:49.960 denial of health care, whatever the lies are in a 209 00:10:50.379 --> 00:10:53.460 system where people vote, we have to get the power 210 00:10:53.559 --> 00:10:57.399 out of our pocket. And all this power we're leaving 211 00:10:57.440 --> 00:11:00.500 in the pocket, and that's what I've been trying to do. 212 00:11:00.539 --> 00:11:04.200 We haven't been doing a partisan endorsement, but we've got 213 00:11:04.220 --> 00:11:08.450 to wrestle with the fact that 12

million of our 214 00:11:08.529 --> 00:11:11.789 people didn't vote in the last election, and the person 215 00:11:11.809 --> 00:11:15.720 in the White House wins by 1.2 million. We've got 216 00:11:15.820 --> 00:11:20.120 to wrestle with the fact that 30 million poor, low-wage 217 00:11:20.179 --> 00:11:23.190 people did not vote in the last election. And the 218 00:11:23.250 --> 00:11:25.320 number one reason they said they didn't was because they 219 00:11:25.340 --> 00:11:29.179 said nobody was speaking to the issue of living wages 220 00:11:29.259 --> 00:11:32.120 and dealing with not just calling affordability, which is a 221 00:11:32.460 --> 00:11:34.799 statement about a problem, not an answer to a problem. 222 00:11:35.179 --> 00:11:37.740 We've got to deal with the fact that 21% of 223 00:11:37.759 --> 00:11:43.360 African-American men voted for Trump. We have to deal with 224 00:11:43.450 --> 00:11:47.529 the fact that the Congress that we currently have that 225 00:11:47.610 --> 00:11:51.860 passed that big, ugly, deadly, destructive bill the margin of 226 00:11:51.899 --> 00:11:54.899 victory to have was 7,000 votes in a country where 227 00:11:54.899 --> 00:12:00.840 90 million people didn't vote. So at some point, I 228 00:12:00.879 --> 00:12:03.759 was with the tenant association in Kentucky when I was 229 00:12:04.059 --> 00:12:08.100 traveling at Berea college, which, you know, Berea, that abolitionist school. 230 00:12:08.700 --> 00:12:11.539 And one of the things that tenant folk and homeless 231 00:12:11.559 --> 00:12:13.110 folks talked about. Yeah. 232 00:12:13.210 --> 00:12:15.179 That's what bell hooks was all those years. 233 00:12:15.230 --> 00:12:15.399 Yeah. 234 00:12:15.419 --> 00:12:15.590 Right. 235 00:12:15.629 --> 00:12:15.750 Yeah. 236 00:12:15.769 --> 00:12:15.870 Right. 237 00:12:15.889 --> 00:12:21.750 And, uh, uh, And the founder of the Urban League, 238 00:12:22.110 --> 00:12:26.090 his daddy was there. And Julian Bonds went there. And 239 00:12:26.129 --> 00:12:29.950 this was a school that took on racism right in 240 00:12:29.970 --> 00:12:32.769 the middle of slavery. All of the early presidents, people 241 00:12:32.789 --> 00:12:34.809 had to be protected, so forth and so on. And 242 00:12:34.830 --> 00:12:37.190 they're raising these kids on values. But the point we 243 00:12:37.230 --> 00:12:41.990 raised there, Lieutenant, is that it's time for in every 244 00:12:42.809 --> 00:12:47.529 of the number one poor districts in this country, they're 245 00:12:47.570 --> 00:12:52.269 talking about the need to have People impacted run for office, 246 00:12:52.309 --> 00:12:55.889 starting at the state level and running in such a 247 00:12:55.929 --> 00:12:57.809 way that they can stay all the way through the 248 00:12:58.070 --> 00:13:03.070 general election because we've got all this power, voting power, 249 00:13:03.769 --> 00:13:08.480 that is sitting there. that's not being released. And the 250 00:13:08.519 --> 00:13:11.580 story of David says you have to find a way 251 00:13:11.659 --> 00:13:14.980 to get power out of your pocket if you're intending 252 00:13:15.080 --> 00:13:17.000 on defeating giants. 253 00:13:17.039 --> 00:13:19.639 Tell us about these 1,000 marches to the polls that 254 00:13:19.659 --> 00:13:22.179 you've been organizing as part of repairs of the breach. 255 00:13:22.720 --> 00:13:24.879 See, you're going to get me in trouble. You always 256 00:13:25.000 --> 00:13:26.240 ask me that question. 257 00:13:26.299 --> 00:13:30.500 Come on. Come on, man. I love getting you in 258 00:13:30.539 --> 00:13:32.200 good trouble, as John Lewis said. Get you in some 259 00:13:32.240 --> 00:13:33.580 good trouble. That's right. 260 00:13:33.659 --> 00:13:37.909 Let me say this for the listeners. When I heard 261 00:13:38.250 --> 00:13:42.519 that there was a plan to have a march on 262 00:13:42.559 --> 00:13:46.059 Washington in the middle of an election season, we were 263 00:13:46.100 --> 00:13:50.279 doing a public pulpit in Washington, D.C. every Monday, taking 264 00:13:50.320 --> 00:13:52.470 the street at 5 o'clock right in front of the 265 00:13:52.500 --> 00:13:56.750 White House. Clergy preaching liberation, justice against the war against 266 00:13:56.789 --> 00:13:59.649 these things. And while we were doing that, we decided, 267 00:13:59.710 --> 00:14:03.690 we thought about it, we examined history. You know, 63 268 00:14:03.690 --> 00:14:07.679 wasn't an election year. when they did the prayer on 269 00:14:08.019 --> 00:14:10.360 a vigil in the 50s. It wasn't an election yet. 270 00:14:10.960 --> 00:14:15.610 What's the need of having a march on Washington, taking 271 00:14:15.750 --> 00:14:19.629 all that money, putting people in D.C. when you've got 272 00:14:19.750 --> 00:14:22.690 battles in the state? And we decided that the march 273 00:14:22.750 --> 00:14:25.659 that needed to happen was people needed to march to 274 00:14:25.700 --> 00:14:29.720 the polls at home to change D.C. and to change 275 00:14:29.759 --> 00:14:34.169 state capitals. And so rather than march to support that, 276 00:14:34.289 --> 00:14:38.830 we decided to support 1,000 marches to the polls, first 277 00:14:38.850 --> 00:14:43.740 day of early voting and beyond. We are there as 278 00:14:43.750 --> 00:14:46.519 of tomorrow. And all of these places are going to 279 00:14:46.539 --> 00:14:50.639 form voter mobilization unions that will stay in place to 280 00:14:50.720 --> 00:14:56.230 continue to do that, have conspicuous courage. And people are marching, 281 00:14:56.289 --> 00:15:00.230 not partisans, They're saying, I'm voting because I'm for living wage. 282 00:15:00.289 --> 00:15:03.990 I'm for health care. They are doing their vision. And, Doc, 283 00:15:04.090 --> 00:15:06.710 let me tell you, when I went around the country, 284 00:15:07.570 --> 00:15:11.529 people were so thankful that we said, here's an idea. 285 00:15:11.600

--> 00:15:14.700 You can take and own it. It gives the power 286 00:15:14.720 --> 00:15:19.500 to the people. The people, man. And imagine if everybody 287 00:15:19.519 --> 00:15:21.779 had just joined in without all this ego and all 288 00:15:21.799 --> 00:15:25.279 this other stuff. And just said, we're going to turn 289 00:15:25.360 --> 00:15:28.419 loose our people and we're going to have more. Imagine 290 00:15:28.440 --> 00:15:32.919 if every church, every civil rights organization or whoever, and say, listen, 291 00:15:33.320 --> 00:15:37.399 instead of putting folk to go to D.C., let's march 292 00:15:37.460 --> 00:15:42.210 to the polls to shift the electorate around the country. 293 00:15:43.110 --> 00:15:44.529 That's what we've been doing. 294 00:15:44.549 --> 00:15:44.629 Dr. 295 00:15:44.669 --> 00:15:44.870 West? 296 00:15:45.909 --> 00:15:51.149 Beautiful thing. Beautiful thing. 297 00:15:51.370 --> 00:15:52.549 Yeah, I was going to ask you. I thought I 298 00:15:52.549 --> 00:15:54.580 was going to say something. I'm sorry. Tell me about 299 00:15:54.620 --> 00:15:57.159 this pledge for moral defiance. I know you're doing some 300 00:15:57.179 --> 00:15:59.980 work with the Kettering Foundation. You stay busy. But I 301 00:16:00.019 --> 00:16:02.480 love this pledge for moral defiance. Again, you're doing with 302 00:16:02.500 --> 00:16:04.320 the Kettering Foundation. Tell me more about that, Bishop Barb. 303 00:16:05.539 --> 00:16:08.610 Well, you know, as a public theologian, one of the 304 00:16:08.649 --> 00:16:11.269 things we have to do is constantly look at the 305 00:16:11.370 --> 00:16:14.590 moral voice of faith. And it can't be stuck in 306 00:16:14.629 --> 00:16:18.539 any one partisan way. And I thought about the history 307 00:16:18.759 --> 00:16:21.820 of the Pope's writing encyclicals, whether you agree with that. 308 00:16:21.860 --> 00:16:25.399 Pope Francis did a powerful encyclical on the environment and poverty. 309 00:16:25.460 --> 00:16:27.580 I was one of 13 people that went to the 310 00:16:27.620 --> 00:16:30.759 Vatican to respond to his encyclical. And it's part of 311 00:16:30.779 --> 00:16:33.830 the book they wrote about it. But we asked religious 312 00:16:33.929 --> 00:16:41.110 leaders who are elected as leaders of denomination, why don't 313 00:16:41.330 --> 00:16:48.700 religious leaders in America write American religious encyclicals? call authoritarian sin, 314 00:16:49.360 --> 00:16:54.240 name why it's sin, and repent of our too often silence, 315 00:16:54.659 --> 00:16:58.279 and then make a commitment to moral defiance, and then 316 00:16:58.379 --> 00:17:01.470 give it to the people to join, and release it 317 00:17:01.870 --> 00:17:05.849 on All Saints Weekend. This past Sunday was All Saints Day. 318 00:17:06.349 --> 00:17:09.720 The day we're supposed to remember the Fannie Lou. and 319 00:17:09.839 --> 00:17:14.220 the Martin Kings, and the people of faith who are 320 00:17:14.279 --> 00:17:16.789 in that great cloud of witnesses who have died and 321 00:17:16.849 --> 00:17:21.190 gone on. They were supposed to remember the Walter Rauschenbushes, 322 00:17:21.589 --> 00:17:24.690 and I could go on and on, the William Lloyd Garrisons, 323 00:17:24.930 --> 00:17:28.609 and we're supposed to remember them, but not just remember 324 00:17:28.650 --> 00:17:32.200 them to remember them, remember them to remember what they 325 00:17:32.259 --> 00:17:35.519 did in the time in which we live. So we 326 00:17:35.559 --> 00:17:38.339 released it. We wrote it, and The people that are 327 00:17:38.359 --> 00:17:42.480 part of it represent 10 million congregants alone. But now 328 00:17:42.559 --> 00:17:45.400 it's out for everybody to sign it and make a pledge. 329 00:17:45.420 --> 00:17:47.960 All you got to do is go to moraldefiance.org. 330 00:17:48.450 --> 00:17:52.569 Moraldefiance.org, moraldefiance.org. Just a few minutes left for Bishop Barber. Doc, 331 00:17:52.589 --> 00:17:54.029 let me ask you real quick. First of all, I 332 00:17:54.069 --> 00:17:56.569 saw the Pope voted. You heard Bishop Barber mention the Pope. 333 00:17:56.609 --> 00:17:58.650 The Pope is the first Pope ever to vote in 334 00:17:58.690 --> 00:18:01.089 a U.S. election. He voted in his home state of Illinois. 335 00:18:01.490 --> 00:18:04.369 So the Pope voted by mail, Mr. Trump. The Pope 336 00:18:04.450 --> 00:18:06.579 voted by mail. I hope they got his vote. Hope 337 00:18:06.630 --> 00:18:09.240 it counts. But the Pope voted a couple of days ago, 338 00:18:09.259 --> 00:18:14.940 I read, in this election. In this issue, this notion, rather, Dr. West, 339 00:18:15.000 --> 00:18:17.940 of moral defiance, I love what Barb is doing. Say 340 00:18:17.960 --> 00:18:21.130 a word about the need for moral defiance in a 341 00:18:21.170 --> 00:18:22.230 time such as this, Dr. 342 00:18:22.250 --> 00:18:22.390 West. 343 00:18:22.410 --> 00:18:24.529 You're the one teaching it at Union Seminary. 344 00:18:26.490 --> 00:18:30.009 Well, I think both of you all know that we 345 00:18:30.069 --> 00:18:33.519 always have to accent the spiritual and the moral dimension 346 00:18:33.539 --> 00:18:36.640 that goes far beyond political partisanship. 347 00:18:36.720 --> 00:18:36.940 Mm-hmm. 348 00:18:37.230 --> 00:18:40.349 We're talking about what kind of human beings are being 349 00:18:40.450 --> 00:18:43.910 shaped in terms of love and courage and integrity and honesty. 350 00:18:44.259 --> 00:18:47.660 And we're talking about being in solidarity with poor people 351 00:18:47.720 --> 00:18:52.000 and working people, whether they are in Chicago, Lagos, whether 352 00:18:52.039 --> 00:18:55.180 they're in Gaza or Tel Aviv, whether they are in 353 00:18:55.259 --> 00:18:59.880 Beijing or whether they are in Israel. Well, I'm looking 354 00:18:59.900 --> 00:19:01.859 at it right now in Harlem. This is a moral 355 00:19:01.920 --> 00:19:05.019 and spiritual issue of

consistency, and that's what Brother Barber 356 00:19:05.039 --> 00:19:07.420 is trying to do. I just think that Brother Barber, 357 00:19:07.460 --> 00:19:11.009 in so many ways, has too much truth for the 358 00:19:11.049 --> 00:19:14.490 Democratic Party. He's got too much courage for the Democratic Party. 359 00:19:14.769 --> 00:19:17.609 But I'm glad the Democratic Party at least is opening him, 360 00:19:17.630 --> 00:19:21.890 but they should be behind him 150 percent in that regard. 361 00:19:22.220 --> 00:19:25.140 Because he's trying to hold up this bloodstained banner that we. 362 00:19:25.099 --> 00:19:26.039 All trying to hold up. 363 00:19:26.079 --> 00:19:28.519 Here's the exit question, Bishop Barber, with 90 seconds to go. 364 00:19:29.140 --> 00:19:30.940 My big mama would say this. It's just too much 365 00:19:31.000 --> 00:19:34.829 like right. Why can't Democrats, why can't anybody figure out 366 00:19:34.890 --> 00:19:37.210 that if you ever get around to doing what Barber 367 00:19:37.269 --> 00:19:41.769 is doing, organizing poor and low-wage workers, you could change 368 00:19:41.809 --> 00:19:43.390 this country fundamentally, Bishop Barber? 369 00:19:44.690 --> 00:19:47.970 Well, it's the key. And I'm a registered independent. And Dr. 370 00:19:47.990 --> 00:19:50.849 West is just saying right. It's too much. much like right. 371 00:19:50.910 --> 00:19:52.650 And it means you got to shift power. You got 372 00:19:52.670 --> 00:19:55.230 to share power. But what I am saying to poor 373 00:19:55.259 --> 00:19:58.960 and low wage folk that we cannot give up and 374 00:19:59.000 --> 00:20:01.640 we got to figure out a way to use our 375 00:20:01.720 --> 00:20:06.240 power to shut up these giants of racism and denial 376 00:20:06.259 --> 00:20:08.710 of health care, denial of living wage. And you can't 377 00:20:08.829 --> 00:20:11.400 do it by staying out of it. You don't have 378 00:20:11.519 --> 00:20:15.440 to just close your eyes and be partisan. But what 379 00:20:15.480 --> 00:20:18.180 we have to do is be engaged. And then lastly, 380 00:20:18.220 --> 00:20:24.680 the pulpit. The pulpit must admit and repent of its silence. 381 00:20:25.980 --> 00:20:33.809 Because authoritarianism ultimately is not just a political way of existing. 382 00:20:33.930 --> 00:20:36.910 It is sin. Now, it is unrighteous. It is a 383 00:20:36.950 --> 00:20:42.799 form of political and moral idolatry. And if we don't 384 00:20:42.980 --> 00:20:46.119 speak against it and repent of what we've had, then 385 00:20:46.259 --> 00:20:52.559 we become accessories to the crime that authoritarianism engages in, 386 00:20:52.920 --> 00:20:54.890 regardless of who's participating in it. 387 00:20:55.099 --> 00:20:57.359 Anybody like him, anybody doing the work that he's doing, 388 00:20:57.400 --> 00:21:02.160 we are blessed that he has accepted the call, the mantle, 389 00:21:02.200 --> 00:21:06.250 to engage the working witness of organizing poor and low-wage 390 00:21:06.289 --> 00:21:09.450 workers all across the country. We celebrate these 1,000 marches 391 00:21:09.470 --> 00:21:12.450 to the polls organized by Repairers of the Breach. We 392 00:21:12.490 --> 00:21:15.589 celebrate the pledge, the launch of the pledge for moral 393 00:21:15.630 --> 00:21:20.529 defiance in partnership with the Kettering Foundation. The website is moraldefiance.org 394 00:21:20.910 --> 00:21:25.660 to learn more about this work, moraldefiance.org. Bishop, I got 395 00:21:26.019 --> 00:21:28.559 a quick 10 seconds here. Are we headed in the 396 00:21:28.599 --> 00:21:31.599 right direction with regard to organizing poor and low-wage workers 397 00:21:31.640 --> 00:21:32.099 in this country? 398 00:21:33.619 --> 00:21:37.069 Well, I just left Meridian, Mississippi. where Swan and Channing Goodman, 399 00:21:37.089 --> 00:21:39.309 the same church, they organized them before they were killed. 400 00:21:39.950 --> 00:21:43.369 In that room, it was black, white, and brown in Mississippi. 401 00:21:43.450 --> 00:21:48.250 Fired up, church was packed. Something is happening. There you go. 402 00:21:48.269 --> 00:21:51.380 And something is happening, and I'm looking at these results 403 00:21:51.390 --> 00:21:53.380 to see what, not just the result, but what will 404 00:21:53.420 --> 00:21:57.940 happen even beyond it. And the people are coming together, 405 00:21:58.140 --> 00:22:01.339 and we have to continue to foster that push that Dr. 406 00:22:01.359 --> 00:22:02.660 King and others dreamed of. 407 00:22:02.839 --> 00:22:04.859 Something is happening. Thank you, Bishop Bob. Good to have 408 00:22:04.880 --> 00:22:05.160 you on. 409 00:22:06.380 --> 00:22:07.779 Thank you now. Take care. Dr. West. 410 00:22:07.799 --> 00:22:08.279 Thank you, Dr. 411 00:22:08.299 --> 00:22:09.140 West. Yeah. 412 00:22:09.220 --> 00:22:11.779 Doc, and I'll continue here on Tavis Smiley. Responding to Dr. 413 00:22:11.779 --> 00:22:13.849 Cornel West, who's sticking around for the second half of 414 00:22:13.869 --> 00:22:16.460 this hour. We thank Bishop William J. Barber for joining 415 00:22:16.529 --> 00:22:17.460 us in the first half hour. 416 00:22:18.569 --> 00:22:18.789 Dr. 417 00:22:18.829 --> 00:22:21.549 West, of course, here every Monday and Thursday in the 418 00:22:21.849 --> 00:22:24.130 second hour. But, again, he's sticking around for the rest 419 00:22:24.150 --> 00:22:26.670 of this hour. We'll talk to Karen Bass, mayor of L.A., 420 00:22:26.789 --> 00:22:29.670 in about 25 minutes from now, top of the third hour. 421 00:22:30.230 --> 00:22:33.690 We'll talk to Mayor Bass about her reelection effort and 422 00:22:33.750 --> 00:22:37.089 what she sees as her path to victory tomorrow. She 423 00:22:37.109 --> 00:22:41.390 was 11 points down, and she's brought this race to 424 00:22:41.430 --> 00:22:44.140 a tie on Election Eve. And we'll talk about again 425 00:22:44.200 --> 00:22:46.819 what she sees as her

path to victory and what 426 00:22:46.839 --> 00:22:49.579 a second term would look like if voters tomorrow give 427 00:22:49.619 --> 00:22:52.460 her a second chance. We'll talk to Karen Bass on 428 00:22:52.579 --> 00:22:55.279 top of our third and final hour, again, 25 or 429 00:22:55.299 --> 00:22:56.000 so minutes from now. 430 00:22:56.039 --> 00:22:56.559 But Dr. 431 00:22:56.579 --> 00:22:59.049 West is still here. So, Doc, tomorrow's Election Day. Let 432 00:22:59.069 --> 00:23:01.789 me just start broadly, and we'll let it do what 433 00:23:01.829 --> 00:23:04.630 it do. What's your sense of what is going to 434 00:23:04.670 --> 00:23:07.589 happen tomorrow? We've been talking for weeks now. about all 435 00:23:07.650 --> 00:23:11.190 the history that could be made tomorrow, certainly African-American history. 436 00:23:11.210 --> 00:23:14.690 And I recognize that symbolism ain't substance. Don't get it twisted. 437 00:23:15.099 --> 00:23:17.279 But you got eight black folk running for governor. You 438 00:23:17.319 --> 00:23:20.000 got a bunch of black folk running for the Senate. 439 00:23:20.039 --> 00:23:21.720 We're blessed to have them all. We've been blessed to 440 00:23:21.740 --> 00:23:24.920 have them all come through this program. Hakeem Jeffries could 441 00:23:24.940 --> 00:23:27.289 be the Speaker of the House come tomorrow night. I mean, 442 00:23:27.309 --> 00:23:30.589 there's a lot riding on these elections. But I think 443 00:23:30.630 --> 00:23:32.990 a lot of black people, again, we've been talking about 444 00:23:33.009 --> 00:23:36.460 the black turnout down south. The data indicates that black 445 00:23:36.500 --> 00:23:38.319 turnout is going to be huge, already has been in 446 00:23:38.339 --> 00:23:40.799 the primary season. So a lot of us black folk 447 00:23:40.839 --> 00:23:43.259 are watching this election tomorrow for a lot of different reasons. 448 00:23:43.380 --> 00:23:45.640 What's your sense? How are you feeling the day before? 449 00:23:47.700 --> 00:23:50.079 Well, let me first say this, my brother, that I 450 00:23:50.119 --> 00:23:56.039 am fairly convinced that KBLA 1580 is the number one 451 00:23:56.220 --> 00:24:00.720 place for people to get both information and interpretation of 452 00:24:00.789 --> 00:24:04.640 what's going on in this country, in this empire. Brother, 453 00:24:04.680 --> 00:24:06.900 I want to salute you for that. I just want 454 00:24:06.920 --> 00:24:09.380 to take just a brief moment and salute you for 455 00:24:09.420 --> 00:24:13.670 that with a variety of perspectives coming out of the 456 00:24:13.730 --> 00:24:17.750 black community because the black freedom struggle has always been 457 00:24:17.789 --> 00:24:22.670 the leaven in the American democratic loaf, but black people 458 00:24:22.710 --> 00:24:25.380 have always been at the back of the bus when 459 00:24:25.410 --> 00:24:27.740 it comes to gaining access to the bread. 460 00:24:28.259 --> 00:24:29.400 Mm-hmm. 461 00:24:29.769 --> 00:24:32.809 And that's very important because, you see, the electoral political 462 00:24:32.890 --> 00:24:36.789 process is very important. It's crucial that we vote. We 463 00:24:36.869 --> 00:24:39.980 vote for the most progressive candidates, but we also tell 464 00:24:40.079 --> 00:24:43.759 people the truth about the system that they're up against. 465 00:24:43.819 --> 00:24:44.180 That's right. 466 00:24:44.259 --> 00:24:47.759 Because neither one of the parties speak to the issue 467 00:24:47.779 --> 00:24:51.539 of black poverty, the issue of mass incarceration, the issue 468 00:24:51.599 --> 00:24:55.309 of police brutality and police murder. none of those issues 469 00:24:55.369 --> 00:24:58.910 become central for either party. So when we deliver for 470 00:24:58.950 --> 00:25:02.009 the Democratic Party and they break down for a couple 471 00:25:02.029 --> 00:25:05.170 of weeks, but when it's time to get policy, the 472 00:25:05.259 --> 00:25:08.299 black masses are still in the back of the bus. 473 00:25:08.400 --> 00:25:10.359 And that's the thing that upsets me. And at least 474 00:25:10.720 --> 00:25:13.339 we are able to talk about this on your show 475 00:25:13.619 --> 00:25:16.140 in a way that's very difficult to talk on a 476 00:25:16.200 --> 00:25:19.630 variety of other shows. So we want to support all 477 00:25:19.670 --> 00:25:22.970 of those folk who are concerned about President poor and 478 00:25:23.210 --> 00:25:27.180 working people and precious black, poor and black working people. 479 00:25:27.460 --> 00:25:29.859 But we want to be honest because both of these 480 00:25:29.980 --> 00:25:33.859 parties have not been able to deliver when it comes 481 00:25:33.960 --> 00:25:37.660 to the masses of black people, especially black poor people. 482 00:25:37.880 --> 00:25:39.329 I want to pick up on the point, Doc, the 483 00:25:39.369 --> 00:25:41.869 powerful point Dr. West makes right now in just a 484 00:25:41.910 --> 00:25:46.150 second here. Two things. Number one, I receive your kind words, Doc. 485 00:25:46.190 --> 00:25:48.450 It means a great deal to hear that coming from you. 486 00:25:49.240 --> 00:25:52.460 But we have done our level best in this election cycle, 487 00:25:53.099 --> 00:25:56.619 not just in terms of hosting town halls and bringing 488 00:25:57.000 --> 00:26:01.680 candidates together, but we've had all kinds of guests on 489 00:26:01.720 --> 00:26:05.170 this program. I feel especially proud, again, that most of 490 00:26:05.210 --> 00:26:07.589 the major candidates literally all across the country have chosen 491 00:26:07.630 --> 00:26:12.230 this platform to come on. And I literally was just, 492 00:26:12.269 --> 00:26:14.490 I'm looking right now at a list that my team 493 00:26:14.509 --> 00:26:17.190 just handed me of all the major candidates we've had 494 00:26:17.430 --> 00:26:19.880 on in this election cycle. And I'm on page two 495 00:26:19.920 -->

00:26:22.079 or three, and it's still going. We've had them all 496 00:26:22.160 --> 00:26:25.140 come through here. And so I'm grateful, grateful, grateful. Republicans 497 00:26:25.220 --> 00:26:28.240 and Democrats, we're grateful to have had them on during 498 00:26:28.259 --> 00:26:30.359 this cycle. But for Dr. West to acknowledge that means 499 00:26:30.400 --> 00:26:32.589 a great deal to me. More importantly, I hope you 500 00:26:32.660 --> 00:26:35.049 as a listener, wherever you are right now listening to 501 00:26:35.069 --> 00:26:37.750 this program, between California and the Carolinas or around the world, 502 00:26:37.769 --> 00:26:40.349 I hope you appreciate that we, again, have leaned in 503 00:26:40.390 --> 00:26:42.490 as hard as we could to bring you all of 504 00:26:42.549 --> 00:26:45.670 these voices during this campaign season. We feel good about 505 00:26:45.690 --> 00:26:48.039 it and hope you appreciate the access. that we have 506 00:26:48.079 --> 00:26:51.079 given you courtesy of these guests coming on this program. Secondly, 507 00:26:51.119 --> 00:26:54.019 let me just mention right quick, if you're listening in L.A., 508 00:26:54.259 --> 00:26:56.660 or for that matter, around the country, tomorrow night on 509 00:26:56.700 --> 00:27:00.160 election night, we've been with you all during the election cycle. 510 00:27:00.240 --> 00:27:02.660 We ain't going to leave you until the polls close 511 00:27:02.799 --> 00:27:06.470 in California tomorrow night at 8 o'clock. So if you're 512 00:27:06.509 --> 00:27:09.529 listening to this station in L.A., KBLA, tomorrow night, we're 513 00:27:09.630 --> 00:27:13.210 live with special election night coverage, 6 to 9 p.m. 514 00:27:13.309 --> 00:27:17.759 Pacific time, We'll be live on Niquadalai Corte, Dominique DiPrima, 515 00:27:18.079 --> 00:27:20.960 and yours truly. We'll be here tomorrow night, 6 to 9, 516 00:27:20.960 --> 00:27:23.599 with live election night coverage on our station here in L.A. 517 00:27:23.640 --> 00:27:25.880 Many of my stations across the country that carry this 518 00:27:25.920 --> 00:27:27.869 program are doing their own thing locally. I was on 519 00:27:28.029 --> 00:27:30.950 WVON in Chicago today. I know they're doing some live 520 00:27:30.990 --> 00:27:35.390 coverage in Chicago, WNOV in Milwaukee. I'm doing their station tomorrow. 521 00:27:35.410 --> 00:27:37.190 I know they're doing live coverage. A lot of local 522 00:27:37.210 --> 00:27:40.009 stations that carry this program are doing their own versions 523 00:27:40.529 --> 00:27:42.789 of live local coverage, but we'll be doing that tomorrow 524 00:27:42.809 --> 00:27:46.789 night here in L.A., 6 to 9 p.m., Dominique, Nick Cordelai, 525 00:27:46.849 --> 00:27:49.029 and yours truly. Now, back to the point that Doc 526 00:27:49.049 --> 00:27:51.069 made a moment ago. We had two guests on this 527 00:27:51.109 --> 00:27:53.759 program last week, Dr. West, sort of echoing you. They 528

00:27:53.799 --> 00:27:58.819 sounded like Cornel West, frankly. But both made the point. Interestingly, 529 00:27:58.859 --> 00:28:06.180 two black women, no less. Both made the point. They 530 00:28:06.240 --> 00:28:08.440 asked it as a question and not at all rhetorically. 531 00:28:08.599 --> 00:28:10.140 It was a point, but they really posed it as 532 00:28:10.160 --> 00:28:13.160 a question. And again, not at all rhetorically. And the 533 00:28:13.180 --> 00:28:18.410 question they posed in two separate conversations, disconnected, was what happens, 534 00:28:18.490 --> 00:28:21.230 what does it mean for us to have a black 535 00:28:21.289 --> 00:28:24.990 speaker who ain't got a black agenda? What does it 536 00:28:25.029 --> 00:28:28.329 mean to have a black speaker who ain't got a 537 00:28:28.390 --> 00:28:31.400 black agenda? I said, y'all sounding Westian to the core. 538 00:28:31.859 --> 00:28:34.099 That is Westian to the core. Here you are now 539 00:28:34.160 --> 00:28:36.759 raising this issue once again, but let's just wrestle with it. 540 00:28:36.900 --> 00:28:41.000 What's it going to mean if we, black people, show 541 00:28:41.059 --> 00:28:44.730 up in big numbers, We rescue the Democratic Party one 542 00:28:44.769 --> 00:28:48.890 more again. Do our part one more time, as Dr. 543 00:28:48.910 --> 00:28:53.039 King would say, to save this democracy, to redeem the 544 00:28:53.119 --> 00:28:55.980 soul of this democracy. That's King. So here we come 545 00:28:56.079 --> 00:29:00.660 once again, rescuing Democrats, rescuing the democracy. You get a 546 00:29:00.700 --> 00:29:03.579 black speaker, you get black governors, you get black this, 547 00:29:03.660 --> 00:29:06.240 black that, black, black, black, black, black, black, black, black everywhere. 548 00:29:06.539 --> 00:29:09.819 But ain't nobody trying to run a black agenda. What's 549 00:29:09.859 --> 00:29:10.420 the point, Doc? 550 00:29:12.190 --> 00:29:14.690 It's true where you got to tell the people the truth. 551 00:29:14.730 --> 00:29:19.220 The system is so corrupt. Both parties are tied to 552 00:29:19.299 --> 00:29:23.500 big money and big money doesn't give a dang about 553 00:29:23.640 --> 00:29:26.859 poor people and working people and especially black poor and 554 00:29:26.920 --> 00:29:29.720 working people. And if all you do is get black 555 00:29:29.819 --> 00:29:34.430 faces that are tied to big money, then symbolically it 556 00:29:34.490 --> 00:29:36.650 looks like we got a lot going on, but there's 557 00:29:36.710 --> 00:29:42.430 no deliverance on the ground in terms of healthcare, food, shelter, 558 00:29:42.759 --> 00:29:45.839 make sure you got fairness with the police, and dealing 559 00:29:45.859 --> 00:29:51.299 with poverty. All this talk about affordability, affordability, that's different 560 00:29:51.319 --> 00:29:55.960 than poverty. Martin Key was talking about poverty. He wasn't 561 00:29:55.980 --> 00:30:01.210 talking about affordability. Affordability is a nice issue, but that's 562 00:30:01.329 --> 00:30:04.690 more an issue of gentrifiers who went into the city 563 00:30:04.750 --> 00:30:10.910 and pushed the poor people out. That's very important. The 564 00:30:10.930 --> 00:30:14.069 same is true when you look at Brother Abdul El-Sayed 565 00:30:14.089 --> 00:30:16.349 and when you look at Mom Donnie and so forth. 566 00:30:16.650 --> 00:30:20.430 These folks are building on what we have been talking about, 567 00:30:20.710 --> 00:30:23.789 but it does have a twist. And the twist is what? 568 00:30:24.240 --> 00:30:28.240 that they still don't make a major priority for black folk. 569 00:30:28.799 --> 00:30:32.160 And therefore, they're looking for us to be a part 570 00:30:32.299 --> 00:30:36.069 of their coalition. But when it comes to what the 571 00:30:36.109 --> 00:30:41.329 priorities really are, we feel not at the center. We 572 00:30:41.349 --> 00:30:45.589 have to be very honest about that, though, brother. This 573 00:30:45.609 --> 00:30:47.309 is very, very important. 574 00:30:47.569 --> 00:30:49.730 Two issues for Dr. West when we come forward. One, 575 00:30:50.799 --> 00:30:53.279 I love the point he makes now. He's made it before, 576 00:30:53.480 --> 00:30:56.599 but I want to just double click it. This notion 577 00:30:56.619 --> 00:30:58.240 of language. He and I wrote a book years ago 578 00:30:58.299 --> 00:31:01.500 called The Rich and the Rest of Us. And it 579 00:31:01.640 --> 00:31:04.140 never ceases to amaze me the extent to which too 580 00:31:04.160 --> 00:31:07.269 many Democrats will go, say nothing of the rest of 581 00:31:07.309 --> 00:31:11.670 the country, to not utter the word poverty. So the 582 00:31:11.690 --> 00:31:16.269 buzzword this election cycle has not been poverty. It's been affordability. 583 00:31:17.130 --> 00:31:20.369 It won't say poverty, though. Affordability. Leave it to Dr. 584 00:31:20.390 --> 00:31:22.519 West to put his finger on the pulse about how 585 00:31:22.650 --> 00:31:26.220 bankrupt our language is. Connie says it ain't about affordability anyway. 586 00:31:26.240 --> 00:31:30.539 It's about affordability. It's really about upward mobility. That's Connie Rice. 587 00:31:30.819 --> 00:31:32.140 She leads us off tomorrow. I can tell you that 588 00:31:32.160 --> 00:31:34.660 right now. Connie, first guest tomorrow. But we'll talk about 589 00:31:34.700 --> 00:31:36.710 lanes when we come forward. And speaking of that race 590 00:31:36.750 --> 00:31:39.529 in Michigan, I'm sick of the way that black folk 591 00:31:39.549 --> 00:31:42.970 were used as pawns in that race by Haley Stevens. 592 00:31:43.009 --> 00:31:44.849 If you haven't heard what she had to say endorsing 593 00:31:45.609 --> 00:31:47.250 Mike Rogers, we'll play that for you when we come 594 00:31:47.289 --> 00:31:47.859 forward here with Dr. 595 00:31:47.880 --> 00:31:48.319 Cornel West. 596 00:31:48.880 --> 00:31:50.900 Dr. Cornel

West, Doc, you put your finger on the pulse, 597 00:31:50.960 --> 00:31:52.980 as you do every Monday and Thursday on this program, 598 00:31:53.029 --> 00:31:56.849 for which we are grateful. Language. This ain't the first 599 00:31:56.890 --> 00:31:59.049 time we've raised this, but I'm glad you're bringing it 600 00:31:59.089 --> 00:32:03.549 full circle on Election Day Eve. The extent to which 601 00:32:03.569 --> 00:32:07.170 this country, Democrats included, will do anything and everything they 602 00:32:07.230 --> 00:32:10.849 can to avoid talking about the poor. Now, I've said 603 00:32:10.890 --> 00:32:13.150 before on this program that I know for a fact 604 00:32:13.710 --> 00:32:19.170 this ain't conjecture. Consultants tell Democratic candidates, to talk about 605 00:32:19.250 --> 00:32:22.809 the middle class. Consultants tell them to talk about affordability. 606 00:32:22.890 --> 00:32:26.779 Consultants tell them, do not say poor, do not say poverty, 607 00:32:26.799 --> 00:32:29.740 don't talk about it. They are told, they are coached 608 00:32:30.000 --> 00:32:33.940 not to talk about the poor. I'm trying to find 609 00:32:33.960 --> 00:32:35.059 a language, Doc, but talk to me here. 610 00:32:36.599 --> 00:32:38.779 That's true, and especially the black poor, because black poor, 611 00:32:38.799 --> 00:32:40.079 you've got to talk about the police, you've got to 612 00:32:40.099 --> 00:32:42.960 talk about mass incarceration. I remember I was with Brother 613 00:32:43.000 --> 00:32:46.710 Bernie in Nevada when we won that night, and the 614 00:32:46.750 --> 00:32:49.970 word got out in the Democratic establishment that Bernie was 615 00:32:50.009 --> 00:32:52.759 going to be the candidate, and many of them decided 616 00:32:52.799 --> 00:32:56.559 they'd rather go Republican than have Bernie win. And that's 617 00:32:56.579 --> 00:32:59.400 probably what's happening in Detroit, you see, that when you 618 00:32:59.500 --> 00:33:02.460 really start focusing on poor and working people, what Jesus 619 00:33:02.500 --> 00:33:04.960 called the least of these, all of a sudden the 620 00:33:04.980 --> 00:33:09.759 establishment in both parties start acting in a very, very 621 00:33:09.819 --> 00:33:12.200 different way. And in the situation of Abdul, we've got 622 00:33:12.240 --> 00:33:15.609 to also be very honest about this, though, brother, because... 623 00:33:15.869 --> 00:33:17.970 On one hand, there's no doubt, you know, that Brother 624 00:33:17.990 --> 00:33:20.470 Abdul is better than Brother Mike Rogers. Ain't no doubt 625 00:33:20.529 --> 00:33:23.990 about that. But Abdul sits up there, stands up there 626 00:33:24.549 --> 00:33:27.630 next to James Clyburn. And what does he say? James 627 00:33:27.690 --> 00:33:31.799 Clyburn is the moral conscience of the Congress. Now, he's lying. 628 00:33:32.160 --> 00:33:34.980 So he doesn't have the politician just say anything in 629 00:33:35.079 --> 00:33:40.460 order to win. Because Clyburn stands against. what Abdu stands 630 00:33:40.500 --> 00:33:43.059 for when it comes to genocide in Gaza. And he 631 00:33:43.079 --> 00:33:46.750 stands against Medicare for All. He's the major recipient of 632 00:33:46.789 --> 00:33:49.829 the pharmaceutical companies that stands in the way of Medicare 633 00:33:49.849 --> 00:33:53.190 for All. But you've got Abdu standing there with Brother Clyburn, 634 00:33:53.430 --> 00:33:55.710 and they're just lying about each other. That's how these 635 00:33:55.769 --> 00:33:59.289 politicians operate. And the same is true in terms of truth-telling. 636 00:33:59.589 --> 00:34:04.009 A real truth-teller is critical of your own group. So 637 00:34:04.029 --> 00:34:07.349 when you said, Brother Abdu, are you critical of Muslims 638 00:34:07.549 --> 00:34:12.090 executing other Muslims in Tehran, in Iran? He won't say 639 00:34:12.130 --> 00:34:15.750 a mumbling word, but he's right on Gaza. He's right 640 00:34:15.829 --> 00:34:17.530 on genocide with Palestinians. 641 00:34:17.909 --> 00:34:18.610 We want the. 642 00:34:18.590 --> 00:34:23.409 Truth across the board, and that includes all groups who 643 00:34:23.639 --> 00:34:26.440 are suffering. When you don't have that, you say, oh, 644 00:34:26.460 --> 00:34:31.210 we just got another group of very, very fast-talking politicians 645 00:34:31.510 --> 00:34:36.219 who now are democratic socialists, used to be neoliberals. These 646 00:34:36.280 --> 00:34:40.110 days in the Republican Party, they're neo-fascists. We want the truth. 647 00:34:40.530 --> 00:34:44.090 We want solidarity with poor people. We want working people 648 00:34:44.150 --> 00:34:47.219 and poor people and especially black people to be at 649 00:34:47.280 --> 00:34:50.559 the center of the vision, not an afterthought that we've 650 00:34:50.579 --> 00:34:52.900 forgotten about after the election. 651 00:34:53.079 --> 00:34:55.820 That's what we want, the truth across the board, the 652 00:34:55.880 --> 00:34:58.239 truth across the board. And that's what Dr. West brings 653 00:34:58.260 --> 00:35:00.820 you every Monday and Thursday in our second hour. Our 654 00:35:00.860 --> 00:35:03.280 remaining moments with him when we come forward on Tavis Smiley. 655 00:35:03.599 --> 00:35:05.909 In case you haven't heard it, here is Haley Stevens 656 00:35:07.010 --> 00:35:09.440 at that church. People keep saying that church. It wasn't 657 00:35:09.480 --> 00:35:13.170 just that church. It's perfecting church. Pastored by Marvin Winans. 658 00:35:13.230 --> 00:35:14.769 I'm going to ask Marvin when I call him later 659 00:35:14.789 --> 00:35:18.130 today why Mike Rogers was at his church campaigning anyway. 660 00:35:18.230 --> 00:35:20.690 That's a whole other question for Marvin that I won't 661 00:35:20.710 --> 00:35:23.380 know the answer to myself. But here's Haley Stevens at 662 00:35:23.389 --> 00:35:24.820 the church. Take a listen. 663 00:35:25.840 --> 00:35:28.519

I'm not trying to harm anyone. I've worked really hard 664 00:35:28.539 --> 00:35:32.460 for Democrats. I'm not turning my back on Democrats. It 665 00:35:32.519 --> 00:35:35.119 is this one vote. And I will tell you why. 666 00:35:35.619 --> 00:35:39.010 Because when you see Hate. When you see a standing 667 00:35:39.090 --> 00:35:42.369 with a Son Piker and repeated hate, it's not acceptable. 668 00:35:42.670 --> 00:35:43.030 That's it. 669 00:35:43.550 --> 00:35:47.030 It's my personal and private decision. I still love the party. 670 00:35:47.280 --> 00:35:49.139 I've done a ton for the party. I voted with 671 00:35:49.199 --> 00:35:51.800 the party over and over and over again. I'm going 672 00:35:51.820 --> 00:35:54.079 to continue to do that as I fill out my term. 673 00:35:54.480 --> 00:35:57.760 Everyone should be fired up for Democrats. You know, we're 674 00:35:57.780 --> 00:36:00.599 just here in Michigan, right? I know that this looks 675 00:36:00.639 --> 00:36:04.059 like it's a big national election. It's a Michigan election. 676 00:36:04.260 --> 00:36:08.820 It's a Michigan moment. And everyone is entitled to their opinion. 677 00:36:09.260 --> 00:36:12.159 And I respect it. I respect how people are going 678 00:36:12.179 --> 00:36:15.460 to cast their vote. I'm doing so with love and 679 00:36:15.559 --> 00:36:18.960 faith to community and to integrity. I am certainly not 680 00:36:19.000 --> 00:36:22.570 trying to hurt anyone. I know these parties are big 681 00:36:22.639 --> 00:36:26.969 and powerful forces. And I respect that. I've been a 682 00:36:27.010 --> 00:36:30.969 Democrat for a long time. But Abdul was very clear. 683 00:36:31.130 --> 00:36:33.710 He said, don't come. I endorsed him. I meant it 684 00:36:33.989 --> 00:36:35.869 when I endorsed him. I gave him a big hug. 685 00:36:36.409 --> 00:36:36.969 I stood there. 686 00:36:37.030 --> 00:36:39.769 I was just having a good time. I love volunteering 687 00:36:39.849 --> 00:36:43.050 on campaigns. And when it really comes down to it, 688 00:36:43.590 --> 00:36:46.889 this is how I'm casting my ballot. It's going to 689 00:36:46.929 --> 00:36:49.949 be a close election and everyone can take a look 690 00:36:50.250 --> 00:36:50.809 at the facts. 691 00:36:52.230 --> 00:36:53.949 She says in that clip, Doc, I ain't trying to 692 00:36:53.969 --> 00:36:56.789 hurt no one. I'm not trying to hurt anyone. And 693 00:36:56.849 --> 00:37:00.619 yet what sticks in my craw is the way in 694 00:37:00.679 --> 00:37:03.960 which black voters were used as pawns and props in 695 00:37:04.000 --> 00:37:09.909 this election campaign. by Haley Stevens, who was endorsed up 696 00:37:09.949 --> 00:37:12.489 and down, essentially, by the Democratic Party establishment. 697 00:37:13.550 --> 00:37:17.340 That's true. But here we come again, black folk coming 698 00:37:17.380 --> 00:37:19.780 to the rescue for the country. We did it in 699 00:37:19.800 --> 00:37:23.400 the Civil War with 200,000 black brothers joining the Union Army. 700 00:37:23.599 --> 00:37:25.239 We did it in the 1960s. 701 00:37:25.539 --> 00:37:26.659 Now we're doing it again. 702 00:37:26.989 --> 00:37:29.710 And as soon as we do that, we get spit out. Now, 703 00:37:29.730 --> 00:37:32.469 this dear sister, in her situation, of course, she said 704 00:37:32.809 --> 00:37:36.530 she's against hate. But she's going to support the Trump administration? 705 00:37:37.050 --> 00:37:40.210 Get off the crack side, sister. If you're against hate, 706 00:37:40.510 --> 00:37:43.769 then you're against hate. If she believes that Abdul is 707 00:37:43.849 --> 00:37:46.130 full of hate, she's got a right to be wrong. 708 00:37:46.170 --> 00:37:48.300 She's got a right to be right. But she has 709 00:37:48.340 --> 00:37:51.079 to be consistent. You can't say you're going to support 710 00:37:51.280 --> 00:37:54.719 Trump and allow the Senate to go to the Republicans 711 00:37:54.960 --> 00:37:58.019 because you are against hate. And Trump is up there 712 00:37:58.340 --> 00:38:03.000 lying and hating every day. So she's not consistent at all. 713 00:38:03.280 --> 00:38:05.920 And she needs to be called on that. There's no 714 00:38:06.000 --> 00:38:06.820 doubt about that. 715 00:38:08.659 --> 00:38:13.159 It's sick. It's sick to see what happened yesterday in Detroit. 716 00:38:14.489 --> 00:38:18.369 And my guess is, if the polls are anywhere near accurate, 717 00:38:18.469 --> 00:38:22.969 that Abdul El-Sayed may pull this off anyway. Donald Trump 718 00:38:23.010 --> 00:38:25.159 was asked about it. He said, I'd love to have 719 00:38:25.199 --> 00:38:29.760 Haley in the Republican Party. So he called her. And 720 00:38:29.940 --> 00:38:35.429 Speaker of the House called her trying to get her 721 00:38:35.449 --> 00:38:37.429 to come to their side. At this point, I don't 722 00:38:37.449 --> 00:38:41.010 know what difference it makes. She's termed out, not termed out, 723 00:38:41.050 --> 00:38:42.880 but she ran for Senate rather than running for re-election 724 00:38:42.900 --> 00:38:45.239 to the House. So she's about to be out of office, period. 725 00:38:45.500 --> 00:38:47.239 She's not going to be in the U.S. Senate and 726 00:38:47.300 --> 00:38:48.599 she ain't going to be in the House. We'll see 727 00:38:48.639 --> 00:38:52.159 what she does next. But again, I just hate to 728 00:38:52.199 --> 00:38:56.400 see black people used and abused in ways like this. 729 00:38:56.440 --> 00:38:58.900 And again, you have to remember, as I said, she 730 00:38:58.920 --> 00:39:03.059 was endorsed full on by the Democratic Party establishment. This 731 00:39:03.159 --> 00:39:06.000 is the choice that they made. Abdul's ad was not 732 00:39:06.039 --> 00:39:08.079 their choice. This is the choice that they made. And 733 00:39:08.119 --> 00:39:10.559 you see how she did a 180 on black people. 734 00:39:10.699 --> 00:39:11.739 I digress for now. 735 00:39:12.480 --> 00:39:12.679 Dr. 736 00:39:12.699 --> 00:39:14.659 Cornel West is here every Monday, Thursday, top of the 737 00:39:14.679 --> 00:39:16.320 second hour. It's not often that he stays for the 738 00:39:16.340 --> 00:39:18.940 full hour. But it's Election Eve, and I'm glad to 739 00:39:18.960 --> 00:39:21.780 have had his voice on this program for the full hour. Dr. West, 740 00:39:21.800 --> 00:39:23.019 love you, man. I'll talk to you soon. 741 00:39:23.039 --> 00:39:26.369 Brother, we still fighting, laughing, and loving. 742 00:39:26.550 --> 00:39:27.030 That's it. 743 00:39:27.090 --> 00:39:27.610 Salute you. 744 00:39:27.650 --> 00:39:30.210 That's it. Fighting these lions with a switch, but doing 745 00:39:30.250 --> 00:39:34.610 it successfully. When we come forward, we'll talk to L.A. 746 00:39:34.630 --> 00:39:36.530 Mayor Karen Bass on Tavis Smiley.