Full Transcript for Unhinged Anti-Trump Rant

everything we're saying because we, quote, "hate Trump." It's not about that at all. Whether or not that's true, it's not about that. It's about the policies, it's about the psychology, it's about how this is gonna pay off or how this is, this is gonna play out in the future, right? So we ... I will not be dismissed because someone says I hate Trump. That's over-simplistic. It's a stupid thing to conclude, and that's not, I, I'm not gonna be dismissed 'cause of that Kimberly: Absolutely. I love that for you. I don't give a shit who dismisses me because I hate Trump. Because I do. Because, because I fucking do. I hate him, and there's a reason, multiple reasons. It's not just because, because I got on some, like, jumped on the hate Trump train. No, he legitimately is a terrible human being who has done atrocious, horrendous, hideous things to other human beings. That's why I hate him. So Yes, and Michelle: Yes, and is just fine. Right, right. And I did not say whether I hated him or not. I'm just talking about the, my comments are not because I hate him Kimberly: Uh, my com- a lot of my comments are because I hate him because of the things that he does, because he's a malignant narcissist. So but yeah, so we can come at this from different perspectives. Absolutely 00:07:25.000 --> 09:53.000 Armchair diagnosis Michelle: Do you love your AI agent? Kimberly: I mean a little bit Michelle: Yeah, I do a little bit too, and I, I just check with my AI all the time. And so I was typing into my AI, how do you deal with someone who has, you know, political power, who has, you know, potentially murdered babies and doesn't care about it, is hiding their pedophilia, their homo- homodeviance, homodeviance, whatever you wanna call that? 'Cause I think homosexuality is, like, perfectly normal, and his version of homosexuality is not. And so I was just feeding this in. No names, no... I didn't even talk about politics. I'm just feeding this into ChatGPT, and they came up with all these really good conclusions. And then was just talking about it like we're talking about some, you know, my barber. And it was like, "Well, it sounds like this person is blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah." It was just so bizarre, this AI thing of, um... Yeah. But anyway, the, the conclusion without me putting in a diagnosis is malignant narcissist and, and perpetual felon who doesn't care about the felonies, and almost to the point of bragging about the felonies Kimberly: Yeah, that all tracks with malignant narcissism. So there's a, a p- a, there's been a long-standing school of thought that psychologists should not be diagnosing patients they have not interviewed in person. And so it's been kind of well understood that when you n- kind of suspect, like this Trump, that s- he might be a malignant narcissist, but that you don't, that you refrain from d- the diagnosis. Recently, I've been hearing psychologists say, "That worked for the last couple of decades, but that's doesn't

work now. Like, it's bullshit. Now we need to call bullshit on the bullshit. We need to name it so that we can figure out a way to move through it." So I have heard some psychologists saying just straight up he is a diagnosable malignant narcissist. And knowing that, I think that the question that you posed, which is, like, how do we, how, how... W- what's coming next, I think, is what you were wondering, and how do we move through it, I think is legitimately can be framed under a perspective of we're dealing with a malignant narcissist Michelle: It's a f- it's fascinating to me. 00:09:53.000 --> 12:03.000 Doctors with no moral compass Michelle: Where are the doctors who see this person and say, "You know what? I think the American public needs to know what's going on"? The multiple... Kimberly: over the socials. I have lots of doctors Michelle: I haven't seen anything. Kimberly: discuss his things. So I've, Michelle: But not doctors who see him, not ones who see him, not ones who would treat him. Like, who are these doctors who have sworn to the Hippocratic Oath who are seeing him and then also saying, "Okay, I'll stay confident ab- about it. I'll keep your confidence," when it's so dangerous Kimberly: So this, this is, this is where the cult conversation would come in because he's not gonna let anybody who has, like, a clear head about this anywhere near him. Michelle: But he needs Kimberly: gonna allow people who are willing to overlook all of the, all of his little failures, like murder, um, because, because it's for a greater good Michelle: I, I know a lot of doctors from my career, and I'm wondering who are the doctors who are capable of handling congestive heart failure or chronic kidney disease or all of the, the venous insufficiency, whatever they want to call it, the, the administration of the psychological tests, the Montreal Assessment. Anyway, who are the, who are the doctors capable enough to treat all of these conditions and cult enough to not say, "You know what? This is not a, this is not an IQ test, dude, and you can't be talking about it like an IQ test"? Kimberly: And see, I think you're assuming that all doctors should have some kind of moral compass Michelle: All doctors should have some kind of moral compass. That's not an assumption. That's, that, that's a fact. It should be that way. That's a should be Kimberly: it isn't. It isn't that way. There are lots of doctors out there who have no moral compass Michelle: I don't like that Kimberly: I know. I know. This is where we are, 2026 I mean, it's a really good question that you're posing, like what is going on in that brain of his? Because the one thing I can say for damn sure is he's not gonna take it like a grown-up. Michelle: No Kimberly: So yeah, what is going on inside the head? 00:12:03.000 --> 18:31.000 Crashed out or gave up? Kimberly: Like, d- so I think one of two things. I think either there is a massive blowback brewing, that we do not wanna be in the

midst of, or he just gave up. Like, just doesn't fucking care anymore, and, and is- wants to turn all of his attention to the things he does care about, and all of this other stuff was a means to an end. Like, being the president ever about being the president or winning elections even. It was about winning, and it was about, um, giving himself a pathway to make himself richer. And it was a, a- and oddly enough, it was a pathway where he could just build shit. Michelle: Right, right. He just wants to build stuff Kimberly: that's all that he seems to care about. So I, I wonder if the, all this other stuff he just doesn't need anymore. Like, he knows he's a lame duck president as far as policy goes, but he can still build his buildings, Michelle: Or you just Kimberly: make his money. He can still do the things he wants to do. This election had nothing to do with h- w- well, think he could make an argument that the election results matter to the, the things that he actually cares about, the things he wants to get done Michelle: Y- yes, I suppose in a way they, they don't because the, the executive order he put out after the election was to create a national monument out of his office so that nobody could take the golds down, which day one on the next presidency is they're gonna cancel that executive order and take the gold stuff down Kimberly: So how is that not a crash out? Michelle: Because it's not different from normal, normal Trump behavior Kimberly: Yeah, but normal Trump behavior is crash out after crash out after crash Michelle: But what differentiates this crash out? Because this, this is a justified crash out. I think all the other ones were just, why are you crashing? Okay, so here's a question. Is it possible that he's been medicated for all this time, I don't know, cocaine, fentanyl, I don't know, and that they stopped the medication the last couple days and that's why he seemed calm? Or has he be ta- been taking nothing, and then they medicated him the couple days after the election, and that's why he seemed calm? Kimberly: Or Michelle: Or Kimberly: were, have medicated him on stimulants up until now, and then with th- this result, they had to then medicate him with some depressants Michelle: Interesting For, for the Kimberly: I don't know how else he's standing, like physically standing. And, um, he, he, he doesn't seem to, he doesn't seem to be well enough to be functioning at the levels that he's functioning without some assistance Michelle: That's what I think, right. I mean, on the very, very least, well, at the very least medication for his multiple health conditions. And he's got multiple body structural things like, um, he, he does definitely wear diapers. He wears, uh, boots under his shoes so that he can, he doesn't have the foot drop anymore. So he clearly has, has those assistive dev- assistive, assistive devices. So that's how he can stand. Kimberly: sleep at night, which Michelle: No Kimberly: which means that something's going on during the day if he's functioning at all during the daylight hours. And actually, there's a lot of evidence that he's not really functioning during the daylight hours, that that's when he's, sleeping through important things and then staying awake all night and, and true socially Michelle: Y- you hit on something that I think is very important in that he doesn't care about a whole lot of stuff. He cares about himself, his family, his money. Well, he cares about himself, his money, and his projects, and his ego, and that's about it. So if the election doesn't really interfere with any of those things, then maybe it doesn't really bother him. Except that it's an ego Kimberly: of the, he went to all, when he was doing all of the rallies that was s- were intended to show support for the candidates, he often didn't even talk about the candidates and didn't let the candidates discuss anything themselves. So they were just Trump rallies. Michelle: Right. Kimberly: o- obviously, leading up, he really didn't care about candidates or whether they... I think that the in- the injury is that he knows on some level that this election result is a referendum on him. He, and so I think there is some sense of injury. as far as the long-term o- outcome of this election, he doesn't give a shit Michelle: I don't know that he is able to process the fact that this is a, a referendum on his policies and his, his administration. I think he's, uh, immediately and permanently decided that if he were on the ballot, he would, they, the Republicans would have won. But because he's not, then it was all the other people around him who have failed, not him. I don't think he could actually say, "Oh, I, yeah, I guess I haven't been doing that great a job." I don't think he's capable of that Kimberly: No, I'm not suggesting that he, uh, recognizes he's not doing a good job. I think he's recognizing that the country behind him in the way that it once was Michelle: Yeah. Or at least his base Kimberly: and you make a really good point though too, that of this conversation hangs on the assumption that he's not demented. Michelle: Yeah Kimberly: that the dementia is also such a huge piece of what's going on day to day. I don't think that you can separate all, any of this stuff out from the dementia anymore. I think that it's, it is all tied up together. So he might not be crashing out on a Wednesday morning because he might not really have any sense that actually something happened yesterday that he should be aware of. Michelle: So listeners, if you are MAGA, I genuinely want to, I genuinely want to ask, 00:18:31.000 --> 21:52.000 Transparency challenge Michelle: So listeners, if you are MAGA, I genuinely want to, I genuinely want to ask, how can you repeat that, that saying that this is the most transparent presidency we've ever had when we haven't seen the Epstein files, we don't know about his health history, there's clearly lying about his deterioration

and his condition, clearly lying about that. Factually, he thinks an IQ test is the cognitive exam for dementia. How can you say this is the most transparent presidency? We don't know if he's on drugs. We don't know if he's on medication. We don't know what kind of specific assisted devices he's on. Those things are consequential to his ruling of the United States, and you cannot possibly say this is a transparent presidency. So if you do believe that, please explain to me, like I'm two, how is this a transparent administration? Kimberly: You just asked a two-year-old to explain physics Michelle: Then stop talking about physics. If you're a two-year-old and you don't know physics, stop talking about it. Stop voting for it Kimberly: yeah, you try to get a two-year-old to stop talking about what a two-year-old wants to talk about. That, it, the, is, this is, I think this is the challenge is that w- w- we assume that people have sort of moral compass, some sort of, way of dis- some sort of discernment mechanism, some sort of educational background. Like the people we're dealing with are not those people Michelle: I have a really, really hard time coming to the conclusion that there's some sort of mental, educational, cognitive deficit in half of the country in the United States. It's a third, let's say a third, who are deeply in that cult. I, I, I have, really have a hard time just saying, "You know what? That's a cognitive deficit," or a lack in your education, or a lack in your willingness to open your mind and learn and have a conversation Kimberly: I think Okay. take this the wrong way. I think because you are so smart, you have surrounded yourself with a smart community. And I don't know that you really day to day come across those people. There, there, there's a lot of them out there. There's a lot of them out there. If you, uh, th- there's no logic to the conclusions that they make. 'Cause if, if you were to even ask, like, like you just pose a question to them, like a legitimate, well-thought-out, well-articulated question, the only thing they're gonna be able to come up with is gibberish, blah, blah, blah. they're either gonna come back with, "Oh, but, but, but what about Biden?" they're gonna come back with, "Oh, but, but, but, but the, but Trump w- is the greatest president that there ever was." Like, there's not gonna be any way that those folks are gonna be able to, like, w- wrap their head around the concepts that you laid out and come up with a- an articulable answer Michelle: I still don't like it. I still, I, I still can't really internalize that. I can't internalize that that's true. 00:21:52.000 --> 25:12.000 Delicious MAGA crash outs Michelle: So, so here's one thing that potentially could happen, not just with Trump, but with the, the hardcore MAGA supporters. I've seen a lot of... There's this one creator who's going on, uh, TikTok right now talking about MAGA crash outs, right? And some of these crash out- crash outs that MAGA are having on TikTok are honestly really, really delicious because they, they have, have put themselves so far into the MAGA cult that they're coming out the other side and they don't even know it. So I heard one in particular, I, I can give you tons of examples of this, but there was one who was saying, "You know what? The Democrats have, have done it. They've ruined the world. We're gonna crash into communism. We're gonna start hating trans people now because of communism or Sharia law. Sharia law is gonna make us start hating LGBTQ+." And I'm like, "Okay, in what world have you crashed so hard into that cult that you're coming out advocating for trans people and LGBTQ+ people?" Like, this is great. This is a great outcome, but you can't even see that you've come so full circle that you're now supporting against your own party's lack of values. Kimberly: so they're coming out saying that they, that they are in favor of the trans community? Michelle: what they're saying is, "Democrats, you've elected people who are gonna put Sharia law in place." And Sharia law does not allow trans, they don't allow LGBTQ+. And so they're advocating saying, "You know what? You Kimberly: Okay Michelle: now created a party that hates the LGBTQ+ trans community Kimberly: That's not a transformation, that's a gotcha Michelle: Okay, whatever it is, they're loudly saying, they're loudly advocating for Kimberly: that... They're, they're not advocating for the trans community. What they're saying is, "Ha ha, you motherfuckers are so stupid that you now have Sharia law, and all the things that you believed in, like the trans community, are gonna go away. Eh." Michelle: Oh, no, no. It was definitely not that. It was definitely you guys, you guys don't wanna hate... You guys now want trans, to hate trans people. I think those people need to be Kimberly: You, you guys are so hypocritical that before you were about trans people and now you're about Sharia law, which is against trans people, huh? Michelle: But they were presenting it Kimberly: that, that none of the... They don't believe, they don't, they didn't turn a corner and are starting to accept communities. That, that, that is not what happened Michelle: totally hear you, but this, this one creator, this one MAGA hardcore creator was actually advocating for allowing trans people to be free. And so I, I, I understand what you're getting at. It w- it wasn't even as well thought out as a gotcha. It wasn't even as well thought out as that. It was really just, "You guys are gonna shit on this community now." So what I was, what I, what I saw was a, um, a TikTok creator who I would watch who's collecting all the MAGA crash outs and playing them and sort of discussing them as they, as they come out. So I, I don't follow any right-wing creators. I think it's just not for me, not on my for me page. Kimberly: No, No, that's right. Okay. I, I, I hear what you're saying. If that was genuine, I don't think that that's

what most of them are coming to conclude Michelle: I agree. I agree. But it's just this funny thing of being pushed so far in a world without real logic. I mean, there, there are a bunch of kinds of logical fallacies, and I think MAGA hits all of them. And so you come so far with this lack of logic that you come back to a place of rationality, and it's just, it's just kind of delicious to me. Kimberly: So weird. Michelle: weird, yeah. Kimberly: so weird. Michelle: Yeah. 00:25:12.000 --> 28:03.000 Let's all crash out Kimberly: All right, so I had to go real quick and get my kid off the bus, and while I was away, I was thinking to myself that we are talking about Trump's and MAGA's crash out, I'm kind of on the verge of a crash out myself. The more we talk about this, the more I, like, upset I get, and I almost feel like we, like, like, like you know how, like, a lot of especially moms hold their shit together during a crisis because you just got to do it. then when the crisis is over is when you fall apart. I feel like we just saw the beginning of the end of the crisis. And so I almost feel a little bit like, Okay maybe I can start letting some of this out because I'm pissed, I'm worked up, and I'm s- and I was scared for a really long time, and not for no reason. People actually suffered and died because of all of this. So y- you can't be like, "Oh, but we survived it." Not all of us. No we didn't. Not all of us. So I'm gonna try to rein myself in a little bit, but the truth is this makes me so angry Michelle: I totally hear you. And it's the same kind of thing when a mom's go on vacation, sometimes they get colds because they just have a minute to, to fall apart or crash out, whatever it is. I'm not yet at that place where I feel that, like, we're over the crisis. N- or, or even the beginning of over the crisis. I'm really skeptical right now, and I'm not a conspiracy theorist, and I'm not worried about nothing. But I don't know that that's enough to make me feel like the, the worst danger has passed. I don't feel like it's the worst has passed yet. And we're really fresh out of this. It's, it's still Kimberly: that's Michelle: week. Yeah Kimberly: I don't, I think I would agree with you. It's possible the worst has not yet happened because we s- do still have a couple years left. What I felt, though, was this energy that as a, a community, our country is not just going to fold and let all of this happen for 16 years or 20 years or 50 years. Like, the energy that I felt was like, "Okay, we've got a fight ahead of us, but we've got fight in us, too." And that was actually just a, such a breath of fresh air to be like, "Okay, it's not just me." Like, we g- we do have this momentum that's building. And so by itself, that was enough to make me feel a little bit like, "Okay, maybe I can just, like, let a li- little bit of air out the balloon." Eee Just a little. 00:28:03.000 --> 29:25.000 I'm still skeptical Michelle: We thought that there would be a, a blue wave for Kamala Harris and a lot of Democrats then, and it was absolutely not. It was smashingly Republican, including the presidency went to the, went to a Republican. And so I'm so skeptical Kimberly: the, he still didn't win the popular vote then though Michelle: know, I know. But there were a lot of Republicans put in office, more than we expected. The swing states all went to Trump. I mean, it was, it was just, it was shocking to me. And now I'm still shocked because how did this happen in two years? And I, and I know that logically this is what happened when ICE was killing people on the streets point-blank and dragging people out of their homes. I mean, so I understand why a rational person would find it time to get some Republicans out of office. I, I see that. But I'm worried that this is not the end of it. When Trump didn't get the presidency, there was an insurrection. Police officers were killed during a mob attack of the United States Capitol. So how is Trump now all of a sudden saying, "Well, okay." N- I don't d- I don't buy it. I don't buy it. Kimberly: I Michelle: he's too calm and it... and, and something else is gonna happen. I feel like there's gonna be some sort of, I don't know, I don't know what it is. I, I mean, my worst fears are that it's gonna break out in some sort of physical violence of Republicans, violence on the part of Republicans or, or on the part of the Oath Keepers or whoever is the secret police of Trump's administration 00:29:25.000 --> 31:49.000 Trump's lost it Kimberly: I think there's a huge difference though from now to 2024, that is that his own people are starting to indicate that they no longer have an appetite for this. Because so many of the people, even in 2024, they hadn't seen the worst of what he could do. Like, all of us were like, "We can see this coming." Like, it's the Titanic and there's the iceberg. Like, hello, people. And, and they just didn't see it yet. But now I think that they've seen so much happen in such a short period of time that is so, uh, anti what they thought they were getting, that I just don't think that, that there's enough people anymore to ha- to have a momentum to do another insurrection. So, like, whatever it is he thinks he's gonna try, he's gonna have to work really hard at it 'cause he just doesn't have the support anymore, except for the, like the handful of, of pick mes at the top, Michelle: mm-hmm Kimberly: who I think will be pretty easy to either work around or eliminate. Um, but he doesn't have the support of the people anymore, and that's why I felt so good on Tuesday because it felt like the people... Michelle: Us people. You mean our, Kimberly: they, Michelle: the actual people who live in the United States. Yeah Kimberly: They, yes, U- United States citizens longer have an appetite for the woke wars and the culture wars and the, and the, and the, and the trusting in, you know, the rah-rah this is our team, uh, because it's not

turning out so great. And everybody's suffering a little bit. And, and the fact that he could stand up in front of his own people and say, "Y'all, you don't need, you don't need 50 dolls, you only need three." Or you know what? "The gas prices, I thought it'd be like two or three times higher than this, and, and so this is great." A- and they're sitting in their seats going, "This is not great." Like, I, I hear the words coming out of your mouth, but I'm not feeling it in my pocketbook. And I think that that's a, a huge difference. I think a lot of his supporters haven't turned or progressive, but they have decided not to continue to lean into the MAGA world. Michelle: There is a rational... Kimberly: up- Michelle: Yeah, yeah, that could be. 00:31:49.000 --> 34:21.000 No more middle ground Michelle: I, I think there's a rational middle ground of conservative, not MAGA. Like that is a, that is a, the person I could have a conversation with, conservative but not in the cult And I think more and more people are going to be in that middle ground Ja Kimberly: I, I, I don't know. I guess I don't know exactly what that would look like, conservative but not MAGA, because, um, I don't know. I... Is that, is that a, is that a place to be? I, I've heard... I know some people consider themselves moderates, but I don't, I don't think we have a middle ground right now. Michelle: I think it would be hard to exist in that middle ground right now, for sure Kimberly: Well, and, and not only that it would be hard to exist in a middle grounds, but the, but the lines have been drawn so clearly you are either on one side of that line or you're on the other. Michelle: Ja Kimberly: you don't s- like be like, "Yeah, I'm actually like really in favor of LGBTQ marriage, But but also I, want to see, um, all of the Mexicans deported." I don't think you stand on like on both sides of that line. I think you're kinda either, you're either on this side or you're on that Michelle: I think you're right, but I don't think this was a voluntary evolution. I feel like the... And I'm gonna call it out. I'm gonna call it out. I feel like the right wing far extremists have pushed the line between us and them so far that we can't exist on that middle ground anymore. It's like there's this denuclearized zone, which is actually quite conservative, and they made it you can't stand in the middle. You have to choose one or the other. And I think that's been pushed so hard by the right that even those of us who want to be moderate left, and n- not, not me, but those of us who want to be moderate left or moderate right don't have a place anymore because you have to be, you ha- It's, it's they've created this sort of social division and social war between the two sides. It's so stark Kimberly: I think that they've pulled the line so far over too that moderate and moderate right both stand on the left side right now. Michelle: Ja. Kimberly: They both Michelle: Ja Kimberly: against the MAGA thing Michelle: Well, I think we'll see, and I would love to do another podcast after whatever happens, happens, or maybe a month goes by and things look good for exchange of power in the Senate and the House 00:34:21.000 --> 39:07.000 Down ballot bliss Kimberly: Okay, so you, you mentioned that you, that you didn't feel quite as much of a relief as I did. I am relieved that the people have spoken. I have almost no faith in the Democratic Party as, as a leadership entity. So that's where I would say that I am also a little bit skeptical because it's not like now that we have power, we can make the changes that we need to make because the very tippity-top people are the same people. Michelle: I don't think we can make changes. I think we can stop further damage, and that's the best we're gonna do Kimberly: But what I think is that these lower ele- lower down, down-ballot elections people into place where then when they become the tippity-top people, that's when the real change is gonna happen. I don't think today's tippity-top people, um, I don't think our, today's Congress is gonna be any kind of effective. I don't, I don't trust, I don't trust any I don't trust almost any of them. the people put into place the, the, the people that in the next iteration of Congress might actually start to put into effect some of the changes that they should've been putting into place for a really long time and just didn't Michelle: So I agree with you completely down ballot. I adore a lot of the down ballot. So there was one, one creator I saw who put up a picture of, of the eight seats that were available for the different departments of whatever in Georgia. And the... A week ago, it was, uh, seven white man, we- seven white men and one white woman. And now it's eight Black women and one white man. And then I was, honestly, I was in tears this morning. I'm like, like full on sob, sob, sob. There's a creator I saw called Taisha, and she said that she was told most of her life that a Taisha is not gonna be successful because of her name. And then she said that her governor's name is Keisha. So she's been going by Tai for her whole life, and now that Keisha is her governor, she can now proudly h- own the name Taisha. And I, I had so many feelings about that. First of all, just elation at the progress, even though it's way too late and way too slow, that progress has happened, and I was just so thrilled for her. And then there was all these feelings of how could, how could our society allow this a- amazing woman not wanna grow up with her name because of some stupid racists in our country? And it just made me so sad, but then also so happy where she is right now, and I'm just, Taisha, you go. I, you know, you go. You're inspiring me Kimberly: There are at least two trans, I think It's a trans woman and a trans man that also just got elected to big, big time positions. I think Senate. Michelle: It's almost like Kimberly: that are, that two more senators. And

l- l- I'm gonna look it up 'cause it's incredible really. In locations you wouldn't expect. Michelle: Right. Right. It's, it's almo- it's almost like we're wanting to put in office the most qualified Kimberly: What? Michelle: Can you imagine? Kimberly: Mind-boggling Michelle: the richest, not the whitest, Kimberly: Okay, Michelle: but the qualified. The qualified, caring, critical-thinking people Kimberly: Bentley Hugid- Hudgins wins Georgia Assembly seat as a first out trans and non-binary state lawmaker and Alison Montgomery has won Alabama's, Alabama's State House District 25 election, flipping the seat from red to blue. Michelle: Amazing Kimberly: I think that there, that even in the South, there are so many people who are liberal or progressive that just didn't feel like it was gonna make a difference before if they showed up, because they felt like we're in a red state now. I think we've just proven that, that, that w- that's, that's not a thing anymore. Like, Michelle: So that we can celebrate today Kimberly: yeah, and that, that's why I felt a little bit of relief. It just feels a little bit like, okay, w- if we could turn a few of the... If we could turn some of the... Texas. Texas Kansas. If we could turn those from red to blue, that means they were really not that red to begin with. They were just gerrymandered red. But that, in fact, when people actually show up, the country is more to the left the last 10 years has demonstrated that we are 00:39:07.000 --> 39:58.000 Cult v critical thinkers Michelle: So I, you know, I'm all in on this conversation. I absolutely hate the blue red. I hate the us them. I hate the division. I hate the left right. Why can't we... And so, so right now I really look at this social war as cult versus critical thinkers. That's my line, right? I don't really care where you are, conservative, you know, whatever. Are you a critical thinker? And in which case, if you're a critical thinker, you probably share a lot of my values, right? Or you're a cult person, and you don't want to learn anything, and you don't want to read anything, and you don't want to grow as a person, and you don't want to have compassion, and you don't want to be in a world where other people are accepted. And to me, that's the other side. So I'm, I'm an us them, fine for c- cult versus critical thinkers, but I really hate these divisions, and I, I hope we can get... Now, now that we're more blue, maybe we can be, be a little bit more purple altogether and less at war 00:39:58.000 --> 44:55.000 The hateful ones Kimberly: So earlier you had said that it's really hard for you to wrap your head around the, the, the, the possibility that there are just really that many stupid people Michelle: Yeah. Kimberly: in the world. Michelle: don't like, I don't Kimberly: And I have a similar problem that I can't wrap my head around that there are that many hate-filled people. Michelle: Right Kimberly: don't understand that level of hatred for, for gen- for people you really don't even know. Michelle: Right Kimberly: Like, I d- I just guess I don't understand how, how one becomes that hateful Michelle: it's not just hate for marginalized groups, it's hate for people who support marginalized groups. Like I, I'm hated by a lot of these MAGA people because I believe in love and kindness and equity and support. Like, I'm hated for that, and that just confuses me Kimberly: it's not only confusing, but I, I, I feel like, what, what happened to you? Michelle: Right Kimberly: what, what has happened in your life that has been, that was so bad that it has made you this hateful towards, towards people in marginalized communities and towards people who like people in marginalized communities? Like, Michelle: Wow Kimberly: that level of, of pain, I guess Michelle: That question can become a PhD thesis. It's incredibly complex Kimberly: Yeah, and I don't really wanna know the answer because I am quite... Oh, I don't wanna admit this out loud. I am quite comfortable sitting in my hatred of the people who are hateful Michelle: I saw a couple right-wing creators, again on these compilations, who were saying, "You know what? I, I hate you now. I can't, I can't be friends with Democrats. I can't be in a family with Democrats." And I'm like, "Where have you been? Where have you been?" Like, we put, we cut those ties already, and now you're just coming to the realization that you don't want to have ties with your family who are Democrats? Like, I don't... New to Kimberly: Okay. Michelle: to the game? I mean, what is going on here? Kimberly: yeah, Michelle: okay, okay. Kimberly: you in the ass. Michelle: room and you want to cut us out. We're not even there. It was, yeah Kimberly: I mean, maybe, okay. It maybe I can... If my compassion wants to come out a little bit, I can say that they, they are going through the same pain and pain from growth that we went, that we've been going through. So maybe is just a natural progression of, of finally waking up, part of it is that they have to s- just hate the other side so desperately that they wanna cut us out. But I don't know. Honestly, if I, if I had people like that in my life and they wanna cut me out, I'd be like, "Cool. Michelle: But I think we're already not in that relationship, so it seems very post facto to cut people out who are not in your life. Well, anyway, so I- Kimberly: so, w- I mean, interestingly, so I don't think... I- think that there were a ton of people who cut out MAGAs, Michelle: Right Kimberly: and I also think that there were a ton of people who just quietly left Michelle: That's fair. That's fair. That was me Kimberly: even realize that the, that their, that their l- left-leaning family members haven't called you in five years. You know? They probably just didn't notice Michelle: Wow. I'm so sorry that some people just don't notice things that are that obvious. I, I recognize right now, I know you feel like you're hitting, sitting in hate, and that's not who you are. I think you're hurting right now, and you don't know what to do with that because there is nothing to do with that. So I, I understand where you are. I don't think you're sitting in hate. It feels like it, but you're not Kimberly: It does feel like it. It does feel like it. And I, and I'm not Whatever it is that I'm experiencing right now, whether it's hate or pain or disappointment, I don't, I don't wanna get rid of it yet. Michelle: No, you don't have to Kimberly: I, I, I, I, I ... It's comfortable for me now to hang onto that because I feel like if I were to start to let go of that a little bit Michelle: You could be hurt again Kimberly: things, yeah, just hurt again. Hurt again, hurt again, hurt Michelle: I absolutely hear you. Kimberly: until, like I, like you said, we still got a long way to go before we can really let all the rest of that air out that balloon. Eee. Michelle: No. Okay. We're gonna wait and see what happens in the next, I think two months is, is really we're gonna have this, I don't think settled, but I think we're gonna see whether something terrible has happened in the next two months, and if it hasn't, then we'll get back on and talk about the future.