In this episode of Startups For The Rest Of Us, Mike interviews Wade Foster of Zapier, about supporting over 700 services. Wade gives a brief history of Zapier as well as how they went from zero to 1.5 million users in 5 years. He also shares some early marketing techniques he used.

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00:00:00in this episode starts the rest of us I'm gonna be talking to wait foster about how they support over seven hundred services with happier the stars the rest of us episode three twenty seven developers designers not yours be awesome at building blocks and growing software products for the
00:00:24first product you're just thinking about it a Mike and I'm waiting and we're here to share experiences to help you avoid the same mistakes we've made I doing this week wait until a great thanks for having me Mike awesome so it's great to have you on I want
00:00:36to give a very brief intro to you and to tell people about about who you are you're the one of the co founders of the happier happier is essentially the glue that holds together a lot of different applications and passes data back and forth between them but I
00:00:48guess with with that said I'll turn it over you because you're probably going to rephrase that much better than I possibly could well yeah the old what is after your dues question right you know it's the igloo is a good word connector integrations good word honestly it's just
00:01:03this work for automation platform let you hook up basically any happy might be using in your business so you know a simple use case might be I get an email and has an attachment you can set up a little rule in sap here that automatically saves as attachments
00:01:16drop box you know something more sophisticated might be someone fills out a lead form on my site to be powered by a tool like say announced and it's pushes it through like a tool like clear bit that grabs a bunch of social data for them based on some
00:01:31conditions it's maybe decides I am gonna send this into my CRM and have a sales person fault with that or maybe Austin into a tool like rob strip and say like Hey let's %HESITATION let's nurture this this user something like that so can do a lot more sophisticated
00:01:45things as well but it's all about automating kind of work flows in a business process and you really don't necessarily see the the product itself you see all the results of it though it's always working in the background for you yeah exactly sap here's an invisible products in
00:02:00the sense of what is running you set up the rules and sap here so there's you I for for you know setting up the rules and and how data should flow from app to app but once you have that set up chapter just cranks away secure technical it's
00:02:11kind of like a cron job more last but on steroids school to work to give us a bit of a brief history of zap your kind of when when did you start on it well how long did it take before you went from this whole idea of having
00:02:22it to going through the a little bit about the validation process and then actually launching as product yeah so we started zap here in late two thousand eleven and so I guess a little before that Brian and I he's one of my co founders had been doing you
00:02:36know a decent amount of freelancing messing around with various projects and one of the things that came up a handful of times was these like little integration projects so you know push these PayPal sales and a quick books for me here push to settle leads into sales force
00:02:50for me stuff like that and you know it's kind of annoying work to do because no one particularly likes doing eighty I work it seems but it is really valuable for these customers and so Brian message me on chat and said you know I I think we can
00:03:03build a tool that lets these business owners or or nontechnical kinda use case users you know set up these sorts of integrations without half an employee a developer an engineer and you know I found myself nodding my head saying like yeah that that makes a lot of sense
00:03:17and so we actually teamed up with Mike choose a or or third co founder and built out the original kind of version of sap here at a at a hackathon a startup weekend if you've ever heard of those and things were really well and we're like Hey let's
00:03:30let's give this that's really give this a go because this seems like something that folks can use and so we're back in Columbia Missouri at the time and we decided Hey we can't go at this full time because we need to have money and things like that you
00:03:44don't just raise a bunch of money and in the Midwest typically so we kept our day jobs Mike was still in school kept finishing up school we worked on this nights and weekends and you know we we try to find ways that we can figure out if people
00:03:57wanted this the best ways for that were looking into user forums size I distinctly remember highrise the this year and having a thread that was several years old asking for Google contacts integration had hundreds of comments on it where people wanted this thing so we'd go find for
00:04:13little little bitty signs like that that showed Hey if we if we can build something like this people would be interested in and so that's really kind of house after your got its start cool so one of the things that I'll just kind of point out is it's
00:04:26pronounces that you're not as a pure right yeah zap here makes you happy years the trick we always share with folks on I said that's a good way to remember it and can I let people know that that's how to pronounce it because I'm I'm sleep mispronounced a
00:04:37free hers yet we've heard Xabier is a BA zap BA yeah we've heard every every pronunciation of the sun cool so that was that was back in two thousand eleven you know fast forward six years and how many apps are you managing right now like in terms of
00:04:54the integrations sure so there is seven hundred and fifty plus I think seven eighty eight is the exact number it changes daily and yeah there's a lot so hurry hurry actually managing those I mean are you responsible for every single one of those or is it really the
00:05:09developers the dominant behind the applications that are responsible for so the vast majority are built and maintained by the vendors behind these companies so you look at companies like slacker HubSpot or gravity form Sir driver those vendors have built and maintain their integrations on tap here now we
00:05:30do a lot of work to help and assist with that because ultimately you know zap here's our service so like we we feel responsible for the quality of those integrations but these days that's how it happens originally we did build out like the original fifty or sixty or
00:05:44so apps but once we watch our developer platform we started to kinda you know expand the universe of people who could add apses Appier yeah and I think that's an interesting point to bring up just because when I was looking at zap here and and trying to think
00:05:57about how I could integrate blue taken it my initial thought was that I had to approach you guys and convince you that Hey you should build a an integration for bluetec into this so that then it would be available to your platform and you're saying you've got this
00:06:10developer platform that allows the developers themselves to just build something right exactly yeah you know we early on we realized we were getting so many requests to add services is after we just realize that there are just no way we'll be able to keep up with the demand
00:06:25for this because we would have so many developers saying Hey bill by apple my apple macs and is much as we would want to do that like that was just not going to be possible for us answer like we need to build a way that lets them do
00:06:38it themselves because the interest is so strong and so in two thousand twelve we launched V. one of our developer platform to kind of kick start that process yes to this developer platform can you tell me a little bit more about what the the process is for a
00:06:52developer who hasn't happened maybe they want to get it integrated into sappy or so that people who are using sap and to send data back and forth between zap here and that happened the other applications you guys support what's the what's the process for somebody getting started with
00:07:06that so it's relatively straight forward itself serves she goes after dark com slash developer and you can basically just start building against it we have like a an API that we kind of call a standard I guess for lack of a better word so that fits like those
00:07:20types of standards it's gonna be super easy to set up because we can automatically configure a lot of the stuff for your rights if you kinda do like authentication by off to buy the book more or less like we kind of auto set that up for you you
00:07:35know if you're in points are rest based chase on in points that can sort by descending order chronologically like you're gonna basically be able to just plug stuff in his act here and it's just gonna work however lots of services don't have those things kind of set up
00:07:51in what we would call this standard way I guess more or less like say standard because there's lots of ways to to do to start calling guide guidelines gathered record recommended yeah right that's not a problem right so we have this whole scripting environment where you can manipulate
00:08:07the requests to kind of match our recommended guidelines if you will yeah and the two things that I I kind of came across when I was doing the integration with blue taken sappy or was that one is like there I I didn't realize how easy it was to
00:08:21get started I mean you if you have a sappy account you just go into that the developer platform and you can just create as happened there's die I didn't realize this but there are three different ways you can build it you can build as %HESITATION private so it's
00:08:33just you that can see it and so essentially what that means is that somebody doesn't have as Appier integration you can almost created for them and they just not sure if you can kind of keep it yourself and then there's the invite only which is kind of where
00:08:44you would probably use it to invite some your beta customers and then there's the global and it's interesting there's that progression there but you could build your own happier integration for somebody else's products technically yeah you totally chant people use that private state for like hobby projects and
00:08:59you know small little things all the time that invite only stage gets used by a slightly bigger companies to hockey and apps that are like their own internal tools more or less an invite like their own lawyers are teammates into USM but no intentions of ever having a
00:09:15public Capron's Appier so you can have like absent any of these stages you know our our have intend to have an app in any of these stages it's after ten years actually make sure that when people are pushing out new versions of it they they're not breaking existing
00:09:30functionality right yeah so we have this whole process one for you know when you want a public at because the review and things like that I think that was one of the lessons we learned early on is that you know we would push out apps just because we
00:09:42wanted to me that number of apps supported count up and we would probably skip on you know like a cue a quality check sort of thing but we realized over time that's not helping anybody right that's the topping our ego maybe it but the end user might suffer
00:09:56for that so you know we push folks are a quality check and then when migrations or changes are made to apps that our lives there's like a whole migration process to mitigate some of those breaking changes for folks who are relying on it now how long does it
00:10:11take for somebody to go through that process let's say that they've got an initial version out there integrating does APRS developer platform and they want to push it live like to is there a decisional manual buttons that need to be pushed or is it all more or less
00:10:23automated it really depends right so if you kind of have an API that already fits those guidelines that match us you can physically do this like really really quickly we actually have a video of our CTO adding at sea in like under six minutes because our API kind
00:10:40of its those guidelines that we have so you can actually do the integrations super quickly if you're familiar with it and then if you're not familiar you ought to read some docks and figure some of that stuff out which can take a little bit of time and then
00:10:52of course I mentioned the queue a process so that you nail it the style guide like right out the gate attention all the kind of rules and configuration so we suggest you know you can kinda nailed the first time around and that that might take twenty to twenty
00:11:04four to forty eight hours for someone to go through the roof the review Q. in a process if you're not matching those guidelines you might be a little bit of work right now I can maybe take a couple days of like people times that's like the only thing
00:11:16you're focusing on to maybe get that iron out I know Mike you just went through on so maybe you can comment for you on what your experience was yeah my my experience was probably more painful well and I think you're right in terms of the people time but
00:11:30the reality is like I am it's not like that was my sole focus there's lots of other things that I was doing a working on and changing like with my products the entire product is built on this on my API so in order to make it work with
00:11:43is happier is actually much more painful because if I made any changes the API then I had to go into my client code and change all that code and then I had to go to zap here so it was actually significantly more painful and the kind of work
00:11:55around I ended up coming up with was I just created a custom sap your endpoint anything that needs to be done I just send it to there and then I'm not affecting my client side code and inside the yeah yeah and that's you know that's a consideration lots
00:12:06of absolute have if they already have users relying on a particular end point and you know it doesn't match kind of our AP I guidelines well something's gotta give right there I think your solution is actually a pretty common one that folks adopt this is like well this
00:12:20is the way kinda needs to be done for sap here so let's let's make an end point for that cool so moving on a little bit from kind of the the technical aspects of it you went from zero to one and a half million users in five years
00:12:33what made that possible well this is I I think this is the magic of having seven hundred plus apps on chapter honestly you know every new apps that we would add is actor or you know later on that somebody else would add does after later on was a
00:12:50new user base that we could tap into in so really early on we started developing kind of a playbook for doing marketing along side of our partners so every time a new Abbas launched on chapter we're trying to get an announcement in like a their monthly newsletter their
00:13:07future launch newsletter we're trying to get listed in there integrations directories were making sure that you know they're onboarding email sequence when they send out like the advanced tips email that's actors included there so we're doing all sorts of things with them to try and continually just happened
00:13:23to their user base you know we spend a planning pages for all the potential integrations that could possibly exist so we can start driving search traffic to it so you know just lots of different ways that we can just try and tap into this existing use a race
00:13:37that already exists and get those to us and so that's really been the bread and butter for us and then it's it's five years work right like sh you just kind of make progress every single day and push yourself to be a little bit better each day in
00:13:52contact compounds upon itself yes sounds to me like a couple of different things that you had going for you is one I guess from external to us after we call integration marketing but it's really integrating into other apps and kind as honestly that beer is one of the
00:14:05big ones that is pushed because of you you have such a large user base and there's all these other apps that you essentially cross promoting them your app between them because it gives you that viral components that sort of plays into it as well because you and your
00:14:19in the middle so you get the benefit of both of those things naturally you can you can leverage the fact that we have the user base reached our user base like we launch that to the email list of million plus plus if you're creative you can cut to
00:14:33the apps that are on the appearance that he would now an integration thurs after let's do some marketing around us you know what's interesting is I've actually used and I don't know if you've heard this before but I've you have used Appier is essentially a search engine to
00:14:45find solutions to problems yeah it's more or less what's happening more and more these days like our after rectory as you know tons of stuff we have a lot of content around the best apps for certain categories of things so people more and more kind of look at
00:15:00chapter and say like Hey if they're on staff here and they they're probably a pretty good app right it probably means they're like they they're open they play well with others like there's some other nice signals that they're getting from from our directory so one of the things
00:15:12you talked about very early on was the fact that you had been working with different customers to try and do integrations from your previous company where you were right just doing web development for people what were some of the earliest things that you found that got you some
00:15:27initial traction with happier yeah so you know I mentioned the the forums earlier and that was probably the best thing for getting like a handful of folks so that high rise forum that had you know hundreds of comments there was I remember one on every note and I
00:15:43remember when I drop box their marijuana and still sources well I had these forums where people would ask for it and I would drop into these forums and say Hey you know I'm working on a project where I might be able to solve this for you if you're
00:15:57interested you know get in touch here I would drop a link back to zap here in a contact form in a decent chunk of people would say Hey this is what I've been looking for you know it doesn't look like I'm gonna get us official support for a
00:16:10native integration so it seems like the next next best bat and we would get like a decent chunk of folks come in in that way one link in a form my drives ten site visitors and five of them would fill out that form so early on that was
00:16:22just perfect for us gives just the right amount of people we needed to kind of test our assumptions build out the initial apps we needed on chapter that sounds like a an extremely high ratio of people who visited and and fill that out I mean you've got ten
00:16:36visitors which does not sound like a lot I mean most people would look and say oh well I I really want to get a hundred or a thousand or five thousand but you're saying that ten was what really did it for a minute if that's all it took
00:16:47yeah so for us I think it was you know those forum posts were so like you can if you will go back I don't even know if you could find them anymore a lot of people meet their forums but the comments in there were just like so visceral
00:17:00these people it's like I need this integration soul bad it was so needed for them they took time to write on a forum about it right in so just the fact that we are offering that I think people are like oh my god there's a way I can
00:17:14get this so they went through click through and it's like if it seem like it was going to solve the problem then they were more than happy to give it a try and so I think that's why the conversion rates on those ten visits were were so high
00:17:25it was it was just like isn't thing I've already raise my hand and said I'm back and for this I need this really bad bright I mean the fact of the matter is that they saw your explanation in the forum and then they click the link and now
00:17:37they're at a page where they've almost already raised their hand and said yes I'm interested in this and then you put it right in front of them and say here's a form to fill out to contact us and we'll talk so they're already there already so they're kind
00:17:48of past that point so that's that's kind of interesting data point yeah it's like you know people who are like I want some girl scout cookies and we just talked up and said Hey we got some your by and please yes I'll take four hundred Bucks in minutes
00:18:01or less so obviously sounds like that one worked out for you really well what are some other kind of marketing techniques you try to just completely bombed I mean I think that's that's an interesting conversation so good question I think later on as we got bigger we started
00:18:17experimenting with kind of some of the different tactics you here and one of the ones that we tried was running joint webinars with a lot of our partners and this one was one we really struggled to make super effective for us and I think it might be because
00:18:31we have like this freemium low cost sort of thing and webinars took a lot of time and effort to put a nice one together and to get enough people on them and so maybe that's why it didn't work ultimately we would look we would do these things and
00:18:45we might get like a decent chunk of folks to show up like we'd get two hundred or three in our folks to register and maybe half that would show up but a lot of them would already be like signed up to zap here so wasn't helping us get
00:18:57new users we're hoping that the partners they act though it was in in mind would promote this more heavily to their user base a lot of times they would just talk about it on the blogger on Twitter or something like that which didn't ultimately drive much traffic to
00:19:11it and so I think just it was just a lot of time and work for relative of Lee low amounts of people coming to us and we were just hoping to get it skilled out more so I think we you know when we're really do it we still
00:19:23do a some of the ins mostly just like kinda make partners happy some of our biggest party happy but what we're really trying to do it like we did maybe a dozen of them and we really maybe only had one that was any meaningful results for us yeah
00:19:38sounds to me like if their intent was to help out the partners who are integrated into your app then that would have been beneficial for them but not necessarily for you because most the people who are attending already users of sappy or it doesn't really make a difference
00:19:53yeah I was like you know these people maybe they're looking for you know some extra use cases for example error you know but that's kind of stuff we could us all with an email right said like Hey here's a ten use cases with this particular APP go try
00:20:06these out their pride pretty good you not to take time to put on like a real time event sort of thing right call one of the things that kind of comes to mind is that chapter is %HESITATION primarily a remote company correct yeah yeah under percent so last
00:20:20week's episode robin I talked about some of the pros and cons of a local versus a remote team improv also talk about kind of a hybrid approach that he used with building trip what some of the biggest challenges that you've found with running a remote team you've got
00:20:33a blood around seventy employees right now yeah I think the biggest challenge is it really forces you to be more disciplined around communication and information sharing so you know you think for us we've got we hire all around the world as well so worried about a dozen times
00:20:49owns so right now I have teammates that are sleeping are not working right in so if I'm doing work that is going to affect them I have to make sure to document that either and code like can get up or needs to be in trial or quit or
00:21:01somewhere right that they can take advantage of it so when they come in and start to pitch in on the projects I'm working on they can kind of pick up where I left off and not hands any kind of dangling threads outstanding so I think really just being
00:21:14intentional about building those kinda that communication fire hose so that people can tap into the information that exists but don't necessarily have to tap on someone's shoulder to get it kind of related to that I mean have you ever thought about opening an office someplace or is it
00:21:29your intention to just kind of keep the company of remote forever or at least for the foreseeable future yeah I think what words were like all in on the remote side of things that the benefit for us it's just so far outweigh some of the challenges and and
00:21:43the main benefit of course being that the people that you get to work with you know we've got some fantastic folks that are working with us here in chapter that if we limit ourselves to a thirty mile radius around where we live we just never would have an
00:21:56opportunity to work with them and it just makes recruiting easier because you can recruit from anywhere instead of that thirty my appeal which turns anywhere is a lot bigger than thirty miles around where you live yeah I think and I think that it's an interesting contrast to how
00:22:10rob built up trip and his team and his kind of view on it was that the hybrid model for that work really well where they did have an office but they also had everybody come into the office a couple of days a week because the collaboration opportunities and
00:22:23the camaraderie like really trumps that being completely remote and in different time zones and I'm not saying that one mechanism is better than the other but I do want to point out that it seems to me like depending on who the founders are and how they best operate
00:22:38and the types of people that you hire either one can work equally well it's really just a matter of how well you put together the team and how well everybody tells together yeah absolutely you know I we've had folks that we brought in at sap here that it
00:22:52didn't work out that they realized you know couple months on the job like roads just not gonna work for me ran like I just need to be around more people regularly it's been relatively few but it has happened and I think that's just you know you as a
00:23:06founder but then also you you know you if you're going to be going to work for somebody else to just be honest about what's like a good work environment for you what what makes you surprised so along that line I mean what would be your advice for people
00:23:18who are looking to hire either remote contractors are remote employees are there things that they should be specifically looking for or like traits that and those individuals or are there specific red flags that you can think of yes for us the things that we really like our folks
00:23:33to add shown a propensity to start and finish projects kind of independently so this could mean that they've got like a side project that they've done a pretty good job with it could mean that after last job they started like a a pretty new initiative and sought through
00:23:49you know kick started when the kind of the principal impactors so much just anyone that kind of just gets gets stuff done as big ones we look a lot for folks who are really good at communicating through written word so folks who are but know how to it
00:24:04Hey like an exclamation point or next remote G. or you know a smiley face goes a long way to kinda giving those things that you don't get like body language when you're writing is your principal medium and I think probably the last thing that's important which can sometimes
00:24:19be tough to judge because of its kind outside what's legally ask couple but it's really nice if folks have like a social circle outside of work you know state principally use work as their social outlet is really going to be tough in a remote setting because there's just
00:24:38not any people around to to be that but if they have you know maybe it's family or friends or a meetup group that they go to regularly if there's you know a co working coffee joint where they've got a lot of friends or something like that they can
00:24:50get locally that really helps out to you know it's interesting because like that actually came up we kind of phrase it differently I think we I don't think we were at it quite as well as you did but the basic idea was that feeling of isolation and specifically
00:25:03looking for what somebody has going on outside of work to maintain a socialite that's a really good piece of advice I think yeah I mean families like we have a ton of families it's after it seems like a lot of them get that their family but we also
00:25:15have folks that don't have families and have friends or you know other social outlets to make it happen to go so a in terms of red flags what are things that you would look for the say this person would probably not be a good fit for a remote
00:25:28working environment that communication one is a big one now so you know they they feel like Hey let's get on the phone to discuss everything right now maybe your remote environment is set up to work for the phone but that's how it is it's chapter like we do
00:25:41everything Sir slacker some other written medium itself they can't communicate well in an email or they're always like Hey let's get on a call to discuss that think well you know that's what it's going to be all the time like you know you can't get on a phone
00:25:53call with someone who's halfway across the world very easily to discuss the things you got to figure out how to do it written in asynchronously so I think that's a big one and really it's just giving us the ops it's of some of these things right it's like
00:26:05do they not get stuff done right like you know you can ask him about the time the ship to project a concert you're hiring for customer support roles like did you know talk about the customers you supported and you can pay attention to like what do they think
00:26:17is oppressive versus what do you think it's impressive you know they're like I helped out ten customers over email today well for us that's not super impressive like we've got folks that are doing sixty seventy eighty you know so it's like totally different volume was work so you
00:26:32can just be all ask those behavioral interview type questions to kind of figure out like this is the type of person to get stuff done or you know did they tend to not do that motivated I guess so when when you're actually going through the the process of
00:26:45hiring somebody do you do phone calls with them or Skype interviews or is it all through email we do both so we have a application form that asks kind of some questions that we think will elicit responses that tell us how they will do the job right and
00:27:03then you know we do a follow up phone screen they kinda make sure they understand the role make sure we understand who they are and kind of get a sense for like you know is this a the type of person that you know it's gonna be a good
00:27:15communicator they're going to get stuff done the day you know can empathize with other teammates kind of some of the values that we have here it's Appier and then we have a second interview which is a skills test interview where we actually have like some scenarios that we
00:27:28built out that represent the work of that role at soccer and so we run into that skills test that skill sets his pride in the past addition to our hiring process because really make sure that folks do have the underlying skills to be successful it's after yeah one
00:27:43of the things I've encountered is that you make to speed the process sound rather lengthy interned in reality is it's only it sounds like it's only about three three or four steps long but I think for somebody who's building something you know in their in their living room
00:27:56are from the kitchen table that that process sounds overly long and overly burdensome for them but at the same time if you don't go through that process is very easy to fall into a situation where you've made about higher or somebody's not going to work out and then
00:28:09you spend three months stringing things along and instead of just any net and saying okay we need it part ways because this isn't gonna work out yeah and you know from start to finish it can go really fast like you know when we decide to review the applicants
00:28:23from the time we were like alright let's schedule at first on screen and go through that skills interview process we've had that done start to finish in less than a week before so it can go really really fast if you're dedicated to making it happen I guess the
00:28:37next question I have for you is that you've established a like a substantial size company now you've got seven employees who got up one half million users what's one of the biggest challenges you see for the business moving forward yeah I think you know the big thing is
00:28:51most companies don't fail because of some sort of external factor most of them fail because the people inside the company and likely the founders honestly so Brian Michael myself messed something up right like we we do something that hurts the culture you know people turn against us or
00:29:08make some dumb decision that drastically affects our ability to ship a good project or chicken products something like that so you know I think I'm just like constantly paranoid about trying to make sure that chapter is a fantastic place to work in that we're making you know or
00:29:23pre and high caliber folks who can kind of make sure that we are making good decisions and that were making good forward progress in shipping things fast and and all the stuff that we we want as a company kind of as a as an executive you guys meet
00:29:37and talk about or is that just something that you know do you guys kind of keep in mind moving forward is to make decisions about the company I'm just wondering how much of it is keeping this in mind versus being intentional about that so we actually do trying
00:29:49to do this intentionally so once a month when the executive team we asked two questions of each member on the executive team which is what is the biggest problem you and your team are having right now and then a second follow up question to that is it's a
00:30:03problem that might pop up down the road if it's not addressed now and honestly that second question is way more important to me because the problems that people talk about an hour the stuff you already know about it's like yeah you know we know that that's a problem
00:30:17we're working to address it right we're gonna get that fixed up the second one is the stuff that people haven't articulated yet it's stuff they haven't shared and you know usually is it's phrase such as like Hey what's a problem that will pop up but honestly when the
00:30:31answer it it's stuff that's already popping up now it's you know they're sharing things that like I've already seen this happen once and so you know when you hear that it's like okay we need to start fixing that stuff now too so it really helps you kinda cut
00:30:45off the problem areas before they get like enough room to because like a really really big issue yeah I think that's a that's a really good question to ask yourself I mean I have a couple of things that I have a my monthly to do list that you
00:30:57just kind of pops up at the on the first of each month is just says Hey look at the the biggest problems you've had with this past month and then you know kind of review what the goals are moving forward to re evaluate things and find out if
00:31:10there's anything that needs to be either re prioritized or anything like that but I think intentionally thinking about what could be a problem down the road that would almost be a business killer is probably something good out of that list yeah I think the combo like asking them
00:31:22together is what's really interesting because you get kind of those things that you already know about you already see and then you get a contrast against some of the stuff that maybe you don't see in you know when a when a company gets to a certain size like
00:31:34those types of questions are really helpful especially for me I don't have the visibility to everything is after like a used to you know I used to do everything so I used to know everything that goes on and you know as we've grown now that your CEO you
00:31:46know nothing all right like it's just a little tougher you have to work harder to get like some of those insights that you just learned by you know almost osmosis in the past right here also you're a little bit more removed there's a layer of abstraction between you
00:32:00and the actual problems so you're trying to interpret things more than anything else exactly jobs and it's like oh that is a problem so maybe I'll actually step in and do some of that work right like %HESITATION there's a problem in support I'll go back and do some
00:32:11support right I've got that skill set I can jump in and see like okay how is that causing problems I can I better understand this so that we can kind of come up with a good solution here call so I guess to wrap things up a little bit
00:32:22where can people follow up with you or keep in touch with you yeah so to places on email wait it's after dot com and then Twitter I'm pretty active as well at weight saucer I get open DMC continued there too great well thanks for coming on a really
00:32:35appreciate you coming and talking to us and sharing the experience that you've had with after thanks Mike I'm really excited to be here if you have a question forcing Colin or voice mail number at one eight eight eight eight zero one nine six nine zero or email it
00:32:47to us at questions of stars thrust without com our theme music is excerpt for water control by moot used under creative Commons described as an I tunes by searching for start ups and as a star stresses dot com for full transcript to be too upset thanks for listening
00:32:58we'll see you next time

Transcribed by algorithms. Report Errata


The podcast that helps developers be awesome at launching software products.
United States
218 episodes
since Jun, 2014
Disclaimer: The podcast and artwork embedded on this page are from Mike Taber and Rob Walling, which is the property of its owner and not affiliated with or endorsed by Listen Notes, Inc.


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