Full Transcript for Episode #188: Ryan Brownlee

--> 00:04:27.951 Uh, and we tracked results. 00:04:27.951 --> 00:04:38.670 So, you know, we took an inventory, so they did a self-image inventory before they did the protocol, and then we did the protocol, and then we tracked their on-field stats. 00:04:38.680 --> 00:04:43.000 And so their self-image was better, uh, because of the protocol. 00:04:43.000 --> 00:04:46.221 And then their performance actually was, was better. 00:04:46.221 --> 00:04:56.271 So I just felt like it was something if, if they feel better about themselves and they're also producing on the field, then I felt like you had something and there was zero research coming out at that point. 00:04:56.281 --> 00:04:56.300 Yeah. 00:04:56.701 --> 00:05:03.084 Um, you know, in the, the late'90s Early 2000s, you could not find baseball research on any of that. 00:05:03.084 --> 00:05:10.345 You had track, some track and field, some tennis, some golf, but really not much at all, so I was kinda starting from scratch on all that. 00:05:10.754 --> 00:05:16.375 But I carried that through from my time coaching at Evansville, James Madison, Iowa, and Western Illinois. 00:05:16.855 --> 00:05:27.735 Now, that audio cassette tape turned into a CD Perfect which then turned into an MP3, which I still have- Right and I, I still send- Good I, I still deal with people that, that deal with performance anxiety. 00:05:28.095 --> 00:05:36.305 Not a lot, but, uh, that's one of the first places I start to, is with that, that MP3 to, to just get them in some sort of routine at night. 00:05:36.714 --> 00:05:40.865 Uh, I thought the benefit of that, too, is it helped our players fall asleep, and I did, too. 00:05:40.865 --> 00:05:44.055 Like, I, I still listen to audios before I go to bed. 00:05:44.725 --> 00:05:49.285 We're all gonna have those racing thoughts before we get to sleep- Right so I use Yoga Nidra now. 00:05:49.305 --> 00:05:51.675 I got that from Andrew Huberman, the Huberman lab. 00:05:51.675 --> 00:05:59.334 So I, I have a Yoga Nidra audio that I listen to, and that will get me centered in and get rid of some of those racing thoughts that you're gonna have. 00:05:59.334 --> 00:06:02.225 And I do trans- And I hope- I do transcendental meditation in the morning, too. 00:06:02.295 --> 00:06:02.324 Right. 00:06:02.324 --> 00:06:02.404 That's great. 00:06:02.404 --> 00:06:06.134 I've been very vocal about that, so that's the first thing I do when I wake up in the morning. 00:06:06.675 --> 00:06:08.365 I sit for 10 to 15 minutes. 00:06:08.365 --> 00:06:09.305 I have a mantra. 00:06:09.694 --> 00:06:13.754 Uh, and then by that time I will get in my car and I'll go work out. 00:06:13.925 --> 00:06:15.964 Um, so it's just daily habits. 00:06:16.375 --> 00:06:16.894 I got- Yeah. 00:06:16.894 --> 00:06:21.654 And I- You know, the more you're around this, it's- Yep it's developing those daily habits. 00:06:21.685 --> 00:06:22.095 With you. 00:06:22.625 --> 00:06:29.875 And they are real hard in the beginning, and especially with sitting with the type of meditation that I do, there is a lot of quiet time, and they call it monkey chatter. 00:06:29.875 --> 00:06:37.795 So a- as an American, like, that's gonna be really hard for you to sit for the first time because you've never done it because that monkey chatter is just gonna be screaming. 00:06:37.795 --> 00:06:47.084 You know, if- Yeah if anybody's seen those chimpanzees that are going nuts in the, in the jungle, that's really what goes on because you're gonna- Right have on average 40,000 thoughts a day. 00:06:47.685 --> 00:06:48.274 Isn't that crazy? 00:06:48.295 --> 00:06:50.095 And you can't get that to turn off. 00:06:50.095 --> 00:06:52.355 Like, that's asking, like, your heart to stop beating. 00:06:52.834 --> 00:07:04.675 But the more you add in a practice, like when I sit now, because I've been doing it for so long, eight years now I've been doing it every day, it is clear in the mornings when I finally get to my mantra. 00:07:04.694 --> 00:07:06.995 But I learned TM from a former player. 00:07:07.524 --> 00:07:13.095 Uh, and the EFT stuff that's on that video, the tapping, that helps people get rid of the yips. 00:07:13.595 --> 00:07:13.985 Really? 00:07:14.055 --> 00:07:14.845 So yeah. 00:07:14.845 --> 00:07:16.574 You know, the, um- Fantastic yeah, yeah. 00:07:16.574 --> 00:07:27.704 So they're called emotional freedom techniques, and so if, if you just Google EFT tapping, um, you'll be able to find some sort of it, or I can send my video out. 00:07:28.264 --> 00:07:30.324 Um, but there's also some cross... 00:07:30.444 --> 00:07:33.644 You know, when- Yeah when people get the yips, there's a lot of science to this. 00:07:33.644 --> 00:07:36.475 When people get the yips, they start thinking on the wrong side of their brain. 00:07:36.475 --> 00:07:36.654 There's... 00:07:36.675 --> 00:07:45.125 You have an analytis- analytic side and then an imagination side, and where, where good performance and flow state, that lives on the imagination side. 00:07:46.146 --> 00:07:49.057 But when people get crossed, could- it could be an injury. 00:07:49.067 --> 00:07:51.526 You know, there's a variety of reasons why people get yippy. 00:07:51.536 --> 00:07:57.137 It could be an injury that they've battled and, and now their mechanics get off, or it's a ruminating thought. 00:07:57.656 --> 00:08:00.737 They make a mistake, and then they just ruminate on that thought. 00:08:01.206 --> 00:08:09.507 Those are daily maintenance programs to keep people away from ruminating- Right and get those, those hemispheres still running right and those neural pathways. 00:08:09.536 --> 00:08:16.697 'Cause once the neural pathways get sideways, that's where we're gonna get into issues, and it's hard to come back from, from that. 00:08:16.706 --> 00:08:25.226 O- once your brain is starting to try to create neural pathways from something you've done for a million years, it's really hard, and that's why people

feel uncomfortable. 00:08:25.307 --> 00:08:32.677 And, and there's some debilitating thoughts to that,'cause now your brain is sending a message to your body that you're not safe anymore. 00:08:33.067 --> 00:08:33.307 Right. 00:08:33.307 --> 00:08:34.486 You know, and that's, that's really what it is. 00:08:34.486 --> 00:08:37.297 Your body's sending a message to your brain that you're, you're unsafe. 00:08:37.496 --> 00:08:44.076 And so when people get the yips, they do really feel like they're dying,'cause their brain is telling them they're, they're not safe anymore. 00:08:44.576 --> 00:08:46.437 Um, and it happens with mental health. 00:08:46.447 --> 00:08:48.256 That's not just a performance thing. 00:08:48.256 --> 00:08:52.297 That's a daily life thing for, for people that get sideways with their mental health. 00:08:52.667 --> 00:08:56.846 So these are just daily maintenance plans to keep, keep the pathways running right. 00:08:58.054 --> 00:09:00.024 I, I love it, man the short, the short version of that. 00:09:00.034 --> 00:09:01.195 There's a long version, but that's the short. 00:09:01.195 --> 00:09:04.705 I, I hope, I hope you do so much more of that on your Instagram. 00:09:04.705 --> 00:09:06.815 I, I, I need that stuff. 00:09:07.154 --> 00:09:13.855 And you're starting to see it, I think, in baseball and golf more than anywhere else, where you'll see golfers with the tapping. 00:09:13.865 --> 00:09:17.445 You'll, you- Well, s- soccer players go through it with- Yeah with penalty kicks. 00:09:17.455 --> 00:09:17.485 Yes. 00:09:17.485 --> 00:09:18.845 Golfers go through it with putting. 00:09:19.404 --> 00:09:20.284 Uh, there's a variety. 00:09:20.294 --> 00:09:27.644 In any sport, uh, you know, free throw shooters with basketball, um, you know, there- there's, you, you're gonna deal with it in, in any sport. 00:09:28.254 --> 00:09:31.585 Well, you look at, you look at what Dickey Thon went through. 00:09:31.585 --> 00:09:33.745 You look at what Chuck Knoblauch- Chuck Knoblauch went through. 00:09:33.754 --> 00:09:34.534 Mackey Sasser. 00:09:34.774 --> 00:09:35.495 And, and I've been... 00:09:35.534 --> 00:09:37.875 You know, I'm a Cubs fan, so I've been... 00:09:38.274 --> 00:09:51.804 What broke my heart maybe six years ago, five, six years ago, is Albert Almora hit a little girl on a foul ball before they put the nets up, and it was a big reason they put the nets up in Major League stadiums. 00:09:52.085 --> 00:09:53.325 And it ruined his career. 00:09:53.335 --> 00:09:56.625 He just couldn't get past the damage he did to that little girl. 00:09:57.075 --> 00:10:00.125 And, and now every time you step to the plate, that's all you can think about. 00:10:00.634 --> 00:10:07.664 I mean, how, how do you handle a 100 mile an hour fastball when you're thinking about,"I, I have the ability to hurt somebody," right? 00:10:07.715 --> 00:10:09.085 EDMR is another. 00:10:09.085 --> 00:10:14.365 Um, I've had friends, a friend of mine, um, has

a foundation now called Walking Tall. 00:10:14.365 --> 00:10:16.085 He was in the Highland Park park shooting. 00:10:16.095 --> 00:10:18.754 But EMDR is, is rapid eye movement. 00:10:18.764 --> 00:10:18.784 Yeah. 00:10:18.794 --> 00:10:20.804 So basically it's a dot that goes back and forward. 00:10:20.804 --> 00:10:29.485 That is a way to actually release trauma, too, and- Okay for traumatic events, for anybody that's going through that, that's another way to, to release traumatic events. 00:10:29.514 --> 00:10:34.825 Um, the, the brain is a magical thing, but it is also extremely tough when it gets sideways. 00:10:34.855 --> 00:10:40.820 Like, it, it could be your, your biggest- Oh, gosh your biggest benefit, but it also could be your biggest detriment with the brain. 00:10:40.820 --> 00:10:41.054 It's amazing. 00:10:41.054 --> 00:10:48.934 Because it is a fascinating thing, and we still are doing so much research on, on all of that now, that we're gonna find out a lot more here in the next 10, 20 years. 00:10:48.934 --> 00:10:49.345 I love it. 00:10:49.384 --> 00:10:49.820 It's gonna be really interesting. 00:10:49.820 --> 00:10:50.804 Keep, keep, keep that stuff coming. 00:10:50.804 --> 00:10:56.054 Any, if any- Yeah if you're not following, uh, Ryan on Instagram, go to coachb_abca. 00:10:56.054 --> 00:10:57.125 It's great stuff. 00:10:57.575 --> 00:10:59.875 Um, it, it- And I don't post a ton. 00:11:00.375 --> 00:11:03.514 Um- But still, I mean, when you post, it's prime you know, I'm, I'm in the Rick Rubin camp. 00:11:03.524 --> 00:11:03.544 Yeah. 00:11:03.554 --> 00:11:06.995 Um, if something speaks to me I will, I will post. 00:11:07.164 --> 00:11:07.384 Yeah. 00:11:07.695 --> 00:11:14.095 But I'm not gonna post just to post, and I'm gonna post stuff that I feel like has value to, to the community as a whole. 00:11:14.105 --> 00:11:16.754 Um, I know everybody does it different, but that's just... 00:11:16.804 --> 00:11:20.174 I don't filter anything either, so that video, like, that's unfiltered. 00:11:20.205 --> 00:11:21.394 That's me out of bed. 00:11:21.404 --> 00:11:21.424 Yeah. 00:11:21.774 --> 00:11:22.345 I didn't... 00:11:22.384 --> 00:11:24.304 I, I've got bedhead in that video. 00:11:24.304 --> 00:11:25.345 Like, it's unfiltered. 00:11:25.375 --> 00:11:32.565 'Cause again, I just, I, I feel like that where we, that we've gotten crossways in society is because everything's filtered now. 00:11:32.835 --> 00:11:33.065 Yep. 00:11:33.154 --> 00:11:36.894 Um, you try to tell kids that now, like s- social media is not a real place. 00:11:36.894 --> 00:11:37.774 I told this to somebody. 00:11:37.794 --> 00:11:39.085 Like, it, it's fake. 00:11:39.085 --> 00:11:40.465 Like, social media's fake. 00:11:40.804 --> 00:11:52.307 I, I tell people to treat social media like you're watching a soap opera Anything you see on Twitter, X, Instagram, TikTok, treat it like you're watching a soap opera because that's probably what it is. 00:11:52.307 --> 00:11:52.376 Exactly. 00:11:52.376 --> 00:11:53.397 It's like professional wrestling. 00:11:53.407 --> 00:11:54.486 There's no authenticity. 00:11:54.486 --> 00:11:55.236 That's what I love about your stuff. 00:11:55.236 --> 00:11:59.547 It's not, and that's okay, but- Your stuff is so authentic I, I, I'm gonna speak from the heart. 00:11:59.547 --> 00:12:00.736 I've always been that way. 00:12:00.777 --> 00:12:07.937 I, you know, here's what it is, here's what it looks like, and that's, I'm just staying my true, authentic self with that stuff. 00:12:08.336 --> 00:12:09.576 I'm gonna transition a little bit. 00:12:09.576 --> 00:12:11.596 I think we're gonna come back- Yeah to what we've been talking about. 00:12:11.606 --> 00:12:11.976 All good. 00:12:12.157 --> 00:12:14.476 I wanna talk about Tony Vitello a little bit. 00:12:14.897 --> 00:12:15.157 Yeah. 00:12:15.397 --> 00:12:26.047 And w- w- because there was, there was so much criticism from all different directions when the Giants hired Tony from, from Tennessee. 00:12:26.606 --> 00:12:33.787 Many people considered him the top coach in the country, World Se- you know, College World Series, just built a powerhouse. 00:12:34.386 --> 00:12:40.417 And now he goes to be the manager of the San Francisco Giants, and they've struggled. 00:12:40.466 --> 00:12:41.716 They struggled mightily. 00:12:42.846 --> 00:12:48.496 I'd like your thoughts on it because, uh, he's, he was such a good teacher, and he still is. 00:12:48.537 --> 00:12:55.706 And he, you know, uh, he, he wanted to do things a little differently and try things and bring some of those college things with him. 00:12:56.246 --> 00:13:01.297 And I, I just read an article today about him losing the clubhouse, and I wanted to get your thoughts on it. 00:13:01.297 --> 00:13:07.586 How much of that is the money that these guys are making, the age difference? 00:13:08.197 --> 00:13:17.647 You know, I, I think there's players from four different countries on the Giants roster right now, you know, so there's, there's the language barrier and all that. 00:13:18.167 --> 00:13:24.136 Talk to me a little bit about what you've seen with that and how you feel about that college coach going to the pros. 00:13:25.798 --> 00:13:25.989 Okay. 00:13:25.999 --> 00:13:33.889 I, I take a lot of notes, so like s- quotes will speak to me, but one of my favorite quotes, Jeff Immelt was about to get fired at IBM, he was the CEO. 00:13:34.099 --> 00:13:34.259 Yeah. 00:13:34.668 --> 00:13:42.719 His quote was,"Every job looks easy unli- unless you're the one doing it." Every job looks easy if, if you're not the one doing it. 00:13:43.048 --> 00:13:45.288 And so I've known Tony for a long time. 00:13:45.328 --> 00:13:48.009 Unbelievable recruiter, unbelievable coach. 00:13:48.369 --> 00:13:51.879 By the way, in the off-season, he flew to all of their foreign players to meet with them. 00:13:52.609 --> 00:13:56.418 It wasn't like he was sitting in San Francisco or

Knoxville. 00:13:56.678 --> 00:14:01.739 He flew, which is no other I, I don't think any other big league manager have ever done that. 00:14:01.958 --> 00:14:02.589 I've never heard of that. 00:14:02.808 --> 00:14:06.798 He flew to meet with their players in the off-season. 00:14:06.828 --> 00:14:09.558 Oh, by the way, he's down in Arizona. 00:14:09.558 --> 00:14:11.558 I'm speaking at the Ohio Clinic. 00:14:11.958 --> 00:14:12.208 Yeah. 00:14:12.229 --> 00:14:15.359 He flew to the Ohio Clinic, which he didn't need to do. 00:14:15.369 --> 00:14:16.989 He spoke at the Ohio Clinic this year. 00:14:16.989 --> 00:14:20.019 He's about to be the manager of the Well, he is the manager of the Giants. 00:14:20.928 --> 00:14:31.629 That's the, the small things that people don't see from the outside that, that those of us in the baseball community that know him on a personal level, but that's also part of taking the job too. 00:14:31.668 --> 00:14:33.609 And Tony, he's got thick enough skin. 00:14:33.609 --> 00:14:36.068 I, I don't, I'm not worried about Tony at all. 00:14:36.078 --> 00:14:37.769 Like, he's got thick enough skin. 00:14:38.298 --> 00:14:40.219 But there is an adjustment period to every job. 00:14:40.239 --> 00:14:43.708 Every job any of us have ever taken, there's going to be an adjustment period. 00:14:43.708 --> 00:14:50.609 Now, you're in the spotlight with that, so your adjustment period, everybody and their brother gets to see your adjustment period. 00:14:50.609 --> 00:14:58.068 Like those of us that coached at schools that nobody really paid attention to, you're gonna be fine because even if you make mistakes, so. 00:14:58.119 --> 00:15:04.109 But that, that's part of the learning curve of, of taking a, a job is, is you're going to make mistakes. 00:15:04.109 --> 00:15:07.989 It's just on a very s- it's a, it's a large stage now. 00:15:08.489 --> 00:15:10.769 But he's tough enough to handle all that. 00:15:10.808 --> 00:15:13.062 Um- But it's different. 00:15:13.062 --> 00:15:17.253 Like, I think those of us that have coached at different levels know that every level takes something different. 00:15:17.253 --> 00:15:20.482 So, you know- Yeah what, what got you here isn't gonna get you there, so. 00:15:20.702 --> 00:15:22.552 But that's with any new job that you take. 00:15:23.163 --> 00:15:29.462 Like, you're gonna have to find ways to be successful in, in that job that maybe things that you did in the past aren't gonna work for you. 00:15:29.793 --> 00:15:35.513 Um- Right but I think there's a ton of really good examples of college guys that have been successful, that Pat Murphy. 00:15:35.852 --> 00:15:37.462 How come nobody talks about Pat Murphy? 00:15:37.842 --> 00:15:38.173 Seriously. 00:15:38.173 --> 00:15:40.153 He didn't really have a lot of experience. 00:15:40.192 --> 00:15:43.812 I mean, he had minor league experience, but he's been a really good big league manager. 00:15:43.812 --> 00:15:46.913 But I'm sure Murph wasn't great at it in the beginning. 00:15:47.202 --> 00:15:47.432 Yeah. 00:15:47.482 --> 00:15:51.842 We have a lot of examples of assistant coaches at the big leagues l- level now that are thriving. 00:15:52.113 --> 00:15:52.452 Right. 00:15:52.503 --> 00:15:55.812 Uh, Derek Johnson's one of the best pitching coaches in the big leagues. 00:15:55.832 --> 00:15:59.852 He had no pro experience before he left Vanderbilt. 00:16:00.403 --> 00:16:02.883 Uh, Spencer Allen, like, he's with the Brewers. 00:16:02.883 --> 00:16:04.253 He's on the Brewers staff now. 00:16:04.253 --> 00:16:05.482 Like, there, there's a ton. 00:16:05.863 --> 00:16:06.043 Yeah. 00:16:06.072 --> 00:16:11.682 Um, so I, I He As long as they give him enough time, um, I think he's gonna do great. 00:16:12.092 --> 00:16:12.913 I think so, too. 00:16:13.113 --> 00:16:16.513 I, I, I, I want to hear Tony speak in about five years, you know? 00:16:16.582 --> 00:16:18.123 Yeah, and he's great. 00:16:18.173 --> 00:16:25.273 Like- If he, if he gets a five-year track with the Giants, I think, I think he's gonna- Good podcast recording after Tennessee won the national championship if anyone wants to listen to a good podcast. 00:16:25.273 --> 00:16:25.293 Yeah. 00:16:25.543 --> 00:16:30.202 'Cause he's Uh, Tony's I know on the outside, like, he looks like a He's very humble. 00:16:30.202 --> 00:16:31.633 He's very self-effacing. 00:16:31.643 --> 00:16:34.393 You get him one-on-one, he's a great conversation. 00:16:34.932 --> 00:16:39.363 Um, so I don't know if that completely answered your question, but- No, it's great. 00:16:39.363 --> 00:16:39.480 It was a good insight. 00:16:39.480 --> 00:16:45.082 We can do that part of it is, like, people need to back off'cause good luck to any of you trying to big, uh, big league manager. 00:16:45.113 --> 00:16:45.643 Good luck. 00:16:45.643 --> 00:16:50.003 I, I- Especially with the landscape of how it is now. 00:16:50.052 --> 00:16:53.243 Um, but that, that's what you sign up for, too. 00:16:53.253 --> 00:16:55.533 Like, okay, yeah, so what, they make a lot of money. 00:16:55.533 --> 00:16:56.602 They should make a lot of money. 00:16:56.602 --> 00:16:58.052 I don't think the players make enough money. 00:16:58.373 --> 00:16:58.653 Yeah. 00:16:58.753 --> 00:17:00.432 The, the owners make a lot of money. 00:17:00.472 --> 00:17:07.462 Um, uh, again, that, that's part of managing your organization is, okay, th- that's Everybody has to deal with that. 00:17:07.472 --> 00:17:11.012 They all make a lot of money, so you still have to be able to manage people. 00:17:11.063 --> 00:17:16.492 And, and whatever organization or, or walk of life you're in, it still goes into pouring into your people. 00:17:16.702 --> 00:17:16.883 Yeah. 00:17:17.153 --> 00:17:26.275 'Cause if you do that, at the end of the day, at the end of the day, it may not work out, but you can still look yourself in the mirror And my dad was a longtime coach. 00:17:26.275 --> 00:17:36.305 He's-

before I got into coaching, I said,"Dad, give me some advice." And one of the first things he taught, he said,"If they can have your job, it's not worth having." That's right. 00:17:36.305 --> 00:17:36.654 That's so clever. 00:17:36.654 --> 00:17:38.755 And what he was saying is be yourself. 00:17:39.005 --> 00:17:39.244 Yep. 00:17:39.275 --> 00:17:42.555 Because if you coach long enough, you're probably going to get fired. 00:17:42.555 --> 00:17:43.805 Like, I was lucky I didn't. 00:17:43.835 --> 00:17:46.035 I coached for 22 years, I never got fired. 00:17:46.384 --> 00:17:46.555 Yeah. 00:17:46.865 --> 00:17:52.244 But that was be- I think because I was staying true to myself and being- Yeah my true, authentic self. 00:17:52.244 --> 00:17:53.914 I wasn't trying to be somebody I wasn't. 00:17:53.924 --> 00:17:53.944 Yeah. 00:17:54.394 --> 00:17:59.944 Even, even when you felt like maybe I should tweak a little bit here, but it's like, then it's like, no, I still... 00:17:59.944 --> 00:18:10.414 At the end of the day, in 50 years, I have to be able to look myself in the mirror and know that I did the best job that I can do, regardless of the outside noise or any of the BS that's out there. 00:18:10.414 --> 00:18:18.904 Because it, if you listen to what the outside people try to tell you, it's not going to be right, and it won't be good for you because they're not in your situation. 00:18:19.734 --> 00:18:21.454 And, and nobody's in a clubhouse. 00:18:21.454 --> 00:18:22.904 You've been in enough locker rooms. 00:18:23.105 --> 00:18:23.224 Yep. 00:18:23.934 --> 00:18:30.414 You have to tell everybody, like,"This is, the people that matter are the people in this room." That's right. 00:18:30.464 --> 00:18:33.164 Anybody outside this room does not matter. 00:18:33.434 --> 00:18:33.924 That's right. 00:18:34.085 --> 00:18:35.174 The media doesn't matter. 00:18:35.174 --> 00:18:38.875 What they say on the blogs or social media, none of that matters. 00:18:38.884 --> 00:18:49.454 All that matters is the people that are in this room because they're the ones that are in the locker room with each other, in the weight room working out with each other, at practice, traveling together. 00:18:49.634 --> 00:19:03.527 Nobody else, so anybody else's opinion outside of this room does not matter And with social media right now, i- if you're not talking about that every day in your locker room, I mean, you, you have to pound it in these kids' head. 00:19:03.527 --> 00:19:07.686 It doesn't matter if they're a 23-year-old college player or a 15-year-old high school player. 00:19:08.386 --> 00:19:16.596 It's understanding that it doesn't matter what your classmates say, it doesn't matter what you're hearing on the blogs and in the, in, in the social media. 00:19:17.136 --> 00:19:20.797 What we do in here is the only thing that matters,'cause this is our truth, and nobody knows our truth. 00:19:20.797 --> 00:19:27.676 But you also ha- you have to explain to the players, too, is like if you're going to be on there, you have to take the... 00:19:27.696 --> 00:19:30.176 If you take the praise, then you have to take the criticism, too. 00:19:30.247 --> 00:19:30.606 That's right. 00:19:30.727 --> 00:19:32.586 Like, you can't have it both ways. 00:19:33.106 --> 00:19:44.946 You can't be like,"Okay, I'm gonna take all this, this validation in from external things and people, and they're saying really good things about me, and then I'm gonna feel good about myself while I have a, a poor performance, and now people are... 00:19:45.037 --> 00:19:46.227 Well, and then..." You can't. 00:19:46.237 --> 00:19:48.616 Like, you're better off staying off. 00:19:48.777 --> 00:19:53.297 I, I know branding is important for athletes now, which is cool, but don't read the comments. 00:19:53.896 --> 00:19:54.307 That's right. 00:19:54.457 --> 00:19:56.987 Again, that's a, that's a Rick Rubin thing. 00:19:56.997 --> 00:20:00.737 He, he interviewed André 3000, who... 00:20:00.737 --> 00:20:02.017 I'm a huge music fan. 00:20:02.166 --> 00:20:02.366 Yeah. 00:20:02.467 --> 00:20:03.227 Uh, movies. 00:20:03.247 --> 00:20:07.596 André 3000 was in OutKast, and André 3000 I think is at... 00:20:07.596 --> 00:20:10.997 For the time, OutKast was probably one of the re- best rap duos of all time. 00:20:10.997 --> 00:20:14.376 But André 3000 was talking about how he can't put music out. 00:20:14.836 --> 00:20:23.227 He put a flute album out a while ago, but he was like,"I don't put rap music out,'cause I don't think it's any good." And Rick Rubin's thing has always been the audience comes last. 00:20:23.686 --> 00:20:23.916 Yeah. 00:20:23.997 --> 00:20:25.196 The audience comes last. 00:20:25.207 --> 00:20:25.307 Yeah. 00:20:25.307 --> 00:20:26.547 Especially if you're gonna be a creator. 00:20:26.817 --> 00:20:32.136 Uh, put, put something out that you love, that speaks from the heart, and I think as an athlete, you have to do that, too. 00:20:32.136 --> 00:20:33.567 As a coach, you have to do that, too. 00:20:33.576 --> 00:20:43.656 Like, find your why, why you're in it, and stay with those core values of why you're in it, why you do it, and hopefully that is to positively impact the people around you. 00:20:44.257 --> 00:20:52.267 And if you're doing that on a daily basis, uh, regardless of the outcomes, uh, if you win a bunch of games or you lose a bunch of games, it doesn't matter regardless of the outcomes. 00:20:52.297 --> 00:20:56.287 Because again, you can look yourself in the mirror that- Yeah you did the best job that you could possibly do. 00:21:35.612 --> 00:21:39.923 I, I 100% agree, and that authenticity is really the key to coaching. 00:21:39.923 --> 00:21:42.812 And I've been doing so much coaching of the coaches lately. 00:21:42.812 --> 00:21:52.152 I was just out in Washington with a group of coaches, and one of the things I told them is I go, you look at the great coaches in the history of sport. 00:21:53.212 -->

00:21:55.882 You look at a guy like Lombardi with the Packers. 00:21:56.352 --> 00:21:58.562 I go, he, he started out as a basketball coach. 00:21:58.642 --> 00:22:00.682 John Wooden started out as a baseball coach. 00:22:01.042 --> 00:22:12.482 You know, the great coaches, you can take a Tony Vitello and you can drop him anywhere on the planet with any- anybody that, whether they've ever seen a baseball before or not, and he's gonna teach them. 00:22:12.802 --> 00:22:20.122 But I, I think Tony's the type, and, and these great coaches, and we know who they are, we know who the great coaches are, you can put them on a field hockey field. 00:22:20.232 --> 00:22:28.462 You can put them in a water polo pool, and they might not know the sport rules, but it won't be long before those kids are motivated. 00:22:28.502 --> 00:22:29.442 They're in great shape. 00:22:29.682 --> 00:22:30.562 They're strong. 00:22:30.732 --> 00:22:32.612 They're mentally healthy, right? 00:22:32.612 --> 00:22:38.452 And that, and that's what I love about coaching, is that if you really love coaching, it really doesn't matter what you're coaching. 00:22:39.012 --> 00:22:39.232 No. 00:22:39.592 --> 00:22:41.032 It's, it's a passion, right? 00:22:42.452 --> 00:22:42.913 And it is. 00:22:42.923 --> 00:22:45.022 It still goes back to connecting with human beings. 00:22:45.082 --> 00:22:45.432 Yeah. 00:22:45.982 --> 00:22:46.902 Yeah, exactly. 00:22:46.913 --> 00:22:49.152 Good leaders can connect with humans on some level. 00:22:50.292 --> 00:22:52.762 I'm interested- And there are a million different ways to do it I, I totally agree. 00:22:52.882 --> 00:22:53.582 I totally agree. 00:22:53.742 --> 00:22:59.902 You talk to so many great coaches every day, uh, with, with your work with the ABCA and your podcast. 00:23:00.512 --> 00:23:08.632 What are some of the best coaches in the country doing right now that maybe is a little bit different than the way we did it 10 years ago or 20 years ago? 00:23:13.308 --> 00:23:14.828 It's funny'cause I, I interview... 00:23:14.908 --> 00:23:19.658 I'm going through the as- as- assistant coaches of the year and, and head coaches of the year podcast right now. 00:23:19.658 --> 00:23:19.683 Yeah. 00:23:19.683 --> 00:23:28.358 And I do those every year, but every level we have, you know, if it's from high school, JUCO, D3, D2, D1, the... 00:23:29.769 --> 00:23:42.678 If you, you show me a program that's a- all bought in on analytics and data-driven program that won a national championship, I will show you a, a program that does none of that that just won a, a championship. 00:23:42.958 --> 00:23:43.288 That's right. 00:23:43.288 --> 00:23:51.988 And that's the, the beauty of baseball is because I'll show you a hitting coach that has success with telling guys to hit the ball in the air. 00:23:52.019 --> 00:23:55.298 I'll show you a hitting coach that tell, is having success with telling guys to hit the ball on the ground. 00:23:55.608 --> 00:23:55.828 Yep. 00:23:55.878 --> 00:24:06.668 Like, and so that's the art of coaching of all of it is there's no one blueprint to all of this, because everybody's situations are different. 00:24:06.988 --> 00:24:11.338 Just like resources, everybody talks about NIL right now, transfer portal. 00:24:12.228 --> 00:24:16.278 There were teams that spent the most amount of money in the transfer portal last year that didn't even make the regionals. 00:24:17.448 --> 00:24:20.088 Uh, spending money is not a guarantee that you're gonna win. 00:24:20.088 --> 00:24:24.958 It, it's again, how you can maximize the, the human beings that you have, have in your locker room. 00:24:25.378 --> 00:24:25.488 Right. 00:24:25.498 --> 00:24:34.348 Like, and so the good programs are still finding ways to maximize for their players in that locker room and getting them to believe. 00:24:34.748 --> 00:24:40.238 Um, the cool thing with the College World Series is the last three, four years, we've had a team that's never made it before. 00:24:40.238 --> 00:24:41.208 We had Troy last year. 00:24:41.208 --> 00:24:42.408 We had Murray State the year before. 00:24:42.408 --> 00:24:44.878 We had Oral Roberts the year before that. 00:24:44.888 --> 00:24:44.908 Yeah. 00:24:44.918 --> 00:24:58.488 And so for, for all the bellyaching of people saying that, that NIL or transfer portal is going to ruin sports, I don't see it because, especially in baseball now, I think. 00:24:58.788 --> 00:25:01.718 But look at it, and IU won the football championship last year. 00:25:02.188 --> 00:25:02.438 Yep. 00:25:03.008 --> 00:25:04.828 IU won the national championship last year. 00:25:05.168 --> 00:25:05.418 Yep. 00:25:05.798 --> 00:25:10.928 Um, again, that has to do with Cignetti more than anything, and he's rough. 00:25:10.938 --> 00:25:12.208 Like, he's a throwback. 00:25:12.218 --> 00:25:12.238 Yeah. 00:25:12.428 --> 00:25:13.808 Like, he's a no bones. 00:25:13.818 --> 00:25:16.208 So again, you can still be tough on people. 00:25:16.728 --> 00:25:19.678 Um, I think that the, that's the thing we've lost a little bit. 00:25:20.188 --> 00:25:22.328 You can still be hard on players. 00:25:22.418 --> 00:25:25.138 I think you have to develop a relationship with them first now. 00:25:25.228 --> 00:25:27.438 You know, that was the thing I think we all saw later on. 00:25:27.448 --> 00:25:29.838 You know, twel- 2019 was my last spring coaching. 00:25:30.508 --> 00:25:34.108 You have to get them bought in before you start really digging in on them. 00:25:34.118 --> 00:25:34.138 Yeah. 00:25:34.238 --> 00:25:37.498 But once you get them bought in, then you can, you can do the old stuff. 00:25:37.508 --> 00:25:39.418 Well- Again, you can't abuse people. 00:25:39.418 --> 00:25:45.568 Like, I'm not saying, like, you can't abuse, but I, I would like to be in those film meetings with Cignetti, with those guys. 00:25:45.588 --> 00:25:45.848 Me too. 00:25:46.038 --> 00:25:47.218 I guarantee you there's

some... 00:25:47.769 --> 00:25:52.898 They're coming out with some hurt feelings, but that's also, you know, you talked about Lombardi. 00:25:52.938 --> 00:25:55.368 Uh, tough love's a form of love for me too. 00:25:55.538 --> 00:25:55.848 Right. 00:25:55.958 --> 00:26:13.582 And, and one of my favorite quotes, um, from the book, the, uh- The Servant, another great book, has a Lombardi quote in there about loving the people in your organization, whi- which none of us would've ever thought Lombardi would've talked about love, but his direct quote is talking about loving the pe- people in your organization. 00:26:13.812 --> 00:26:14.022 Yeah. 00:26:14.072 --> 00:26:25.242 So it still comes from a place of love, but tough love is still a form of love because that, uh, that means the person actually does care about you and wants to see what's, see you do well. 00:26:25.632 --> 00:26:33.070 And yes, that comes with being honest with you at times that m- you may not always like what comes out of their mouths How, how much of this... 00:26:33.080 --> 00:26:40.840 Y- you talk about Cignetti, and, and he's, he's a throwback, but he's also saying,"We're only gonna practice this amount of time every week. 00:26:41.260 --> 00:26:41.800 We're, we're... 00:26:41.820 --> 00:26:45.100 My coaches are only gonna be in the office this amount of time every week. 00:26:45.461 --> 00:26:47.320 These, these kids have to have a life. 00:26:47.410 --> 00:26:49.000 They have to be off the football field. 00:26:49.240 --> 00:26:50.600 They have to be going to class. 00:26:50.630 --> 00:26:52.530 My coaches have to go see their families. 00:26:52.690 --> 00:26:59.280 They gotta go to the Little League games and the concerts." And, you know, the, you know, so he's doing those things with love. 00:27:00.190 --> 00:27:06.030 But how important is it to be a really great coach in terms of your skill set? 00:27:06.590 --> 00:27:11.160 Where does evaluation and teaching come into that? 00:27:11.270 --> 00:27:11.961 It's all of it. 00:27:12.150 --> 00:27:12.440 Don't you think? 00:27:12.760 --> 00:27:14.221 It's all, it's all, it's all-encompassing. 00:27:14.640 --> 00:27:15.763 It doesn't matter about NFL, right? 00:27:15.763 --> 00:27:16.230 But, but, but the fact... 00:27:16.230 --> 00:27:22.340 But again, you know, with Cignetti, there's some science to that now with, with brain function. 00:27:22.950 --> 00:27:29.660 You have to, you ha- uh, the stress is good, but you have to be able to release from that stress. 00:27:29.690 --> 00:27:32.630 And so recovery is, is important. 00:27:33.280 --> 00:27:37.560 If you're not allowing athletes to recover, s- this is where sleep comes into play. 00:27:37.560 --> 00:27:43.420 So throughout the day, whatever you're doing, you set these markers in your brain to learn. 00:27:43.730 --> 00:27:49.940 If you're not getting enough rest and sleep, then those markers go away, so you basically wasted an entire day. 00:27:51.000 --> 00:27:51.270

Yeah. 00:27:51.660 --> 00:28:02.610 And so the smart ones are paying attention to rest and recovery now because you have to get rest to al- allow those learning markers to set, because if you don't, you basically just shouldn't have done anything that day. 00:28:02.610 --> 00:28:04.170 So they're smart enough to adjust that. 00:28:04.170 --> 00:28:12.780 Yes, be hard on people, but the recovery part is just as important as that, the activity part now, if you want them to learn on a database, day-to-day basis. 00:28:12.780 --> 00:28:15.280 Well, that's- So it's called the glymphatic system. 00:28:15.280 --> 00:28:16.920 I know I'm getting science-y here, but it's called the glymphatic system. 00:28:16.920 --> 00:28:17.290 No, I love it. 00:28:17.290 --> 00:28:22.480 It's, it, so it's, it, I think people need to understand, especially the parents- It's called the glymphatic, so look up glymphatic system. 00:28:22.490 --> 00:28:26.160 So that's, that's the fluid that cleans your brain while you're sleeping. 00:28:26.290 --> 00:28:29.040 Uh, they've linked it to Parkinson's and to Alzheimer's. 00:28:29.040 --> 00:28:36.260 So the plaque for people that gets Al- Alzheimer's and Parkinson's, uh, that plaque basically doesn't get washed away in their brain. 00:28:36.260 --> 00:28:41.130 It's basically like a heart attack for the, for the brain with the plaque, is what it is. 00:28:41.130 --> 00:28:48.130 So- I, I gotta dive into that you have to have proper deep sleep- Yeah in order for the glymphatic system to work in your brain. 00:28:48.130 --> 00:28:49.870 So, but yeah, he's figured that part out. 00:28:49.870 --> 00:28:56.740 And, you know, I think the, the, the neat thing for me is you interact with really successful coaches at every level. 00:28:57.490 --> 00:29:03.670 I think coaches are really resourceful and find a way to maximize the resources that they have within their program. 00:29:04.120 --> 00:29:08.480 I can show you a underfunded program that won a national championship last year. 00:29:08.480 --> 00:29:11.930 I can show you a fully funded program that won a national championship last year. 00:29:12.642 --> 00:29:14.152 And then I can show you, again, same thing. 00:29:14.152 --> 00:29:21.132 I can show you ones that overpaid and had terrible years, and then I can show you ones that don't have resources that had terrible years. 00:29:21.132 --> 00:29:28.652 So again, it, uh, a- and that's part of not buying into the excuses of,"Woe is me, this is where we're at." Yeah. 00:29:28.663 --> 00:29:35.182 Um, I've been at every level at Division I, schools that didn't have resources, school that had resources. 00:29:35.602 --> 00:29:45.562 I felt just as good about the places that I was at that didn't have resources,'cause honestly, it fe- it, it meant more when we were successful because I knew we didn't have as much as everybody else. 00:29:46.592 --> 00:29:48.332 I'm, I'm curious what you think about this. 00:29:48.332 --> 00:30:01.630 I've, I've been, I'm doing a lot of consulting on college campuses this last year, and I, when I, when I talk to athletic directors, when I talk to presidents I, I'm asking them, how are you evaluating your candidates when you're hiring? 00:30:01.630 --> 00:30:05.520 I go,"What, what are the questions you're asking and what are you looking for? 00:30:06.130 --> 00:30:13.650 Because y- you've got this merry-go-round where you're hiring a new coach every three years, you're firing them, they're leaving'cause they're not happy, they're not winning. 00:30:13.940 --> 00:30:17.230 How are..." So I go,"Let's talk about three things. 00:30:18.320 --> 00:30:20.260 Are you looking for a teacher, number one? 00:30:20.270 --> 00:30:23.971 Are you looking for somebody that will teach the fundamentals, actually teach the game, right? 00:30:24.550 --> 00:30:41.820 Are you looking for somebody that's an evaluator, that knows how to evaluate, that can look at a Nico Horner or a Brian Terang and go,'Okay, this guy isn't very big, but man, the fundamentals are there and he does everything right and he's a great locker room person.' And, and then are they curious? 00:30:42.230 --> 00:30:43.110 Like, like you are. 00:30:43.150 --> 00:30:45.940 You know, I, I, I wanna learn, I wanna get better. 00:30:46.330 --> 00:30:48.461 I'm, I'm not happy with my situation. 00:30:49.330 --> 00:30:55.950 What are you seeing in terms of coaches and how important those three things are, and am I missing something? 00:30:56.230 --> 00:31:04.630 Is there something else we need to be evaluating before we put somebody in front of these kids?" Uh, I've never been athletic director, so I... 00:31:04.630 --> 00:31:06.510 You know, that's hard for me. 00:31:06.570 --> 00:31:08.990 But from the outside- But you've applied for a lot of jobs. 00:31:08.990 --> 00:31:09.428 I have. 00:31:09.428 --> 00:31:09.861 You know the process. 00:31:09.861 --> 00:31:11.420 And I got turned down for a lot, too. 00:31:11.540 --> 00:31:11.770 Yeah. 00:31:11.780 --> 00:31:13.250 Which, you know, at the time, that... 00:31:13.290 --> 00:31:20.711 We talk about fail forward moments on the podcast, that was one of mine, was not getting the, a Kansas State job'cause I botched up a, a phone interview. 00:31:21.740 --> 00:31:26.310 But I think ADs honestly need to be more honest too with coaches in this process. 00:31:26.330 --> 00:31:33.240 Like, we can talk about all those things, but at the end of the day, if it's still just gonna be on my results, then you need to be honest with me on that. 00:31:33.700 --> 00:31:34.060 That's right. 00:31:34.060 --> 00:31:36.360 Because then we're gonna, we're gonna approach this thing much differently. 00:31:37.030 --> 00:31:41.510 And, and that's where you have to be honest as an athletic director, is like, what is your vision? 00:31:41.510 --> 00:31:50.120 And I think this is where coaches, if you're really gonna get an opportunity to, to get hired, you have to ask those

questions of your athletic director, of like, don't BS me on this. 00:31:50.120 --> 00:31:51.350 Like, where... 00:31:51.510 --> 00:32:03.550 What are your expectations, and where should we be in three years if, if you feel like this is gonna be a successful venture for between the two of us, what do you feel like this needs to look like in three years? 00:32:03.910 --> 00:32:10.050 But then as an athletic director, you also have to make sure those resources match your expectations, too. 00:32:10.590 --> 00:32:10.860 Yep. 00:32:11.270 --> 00:32:15.221 And at the end of the day, if you're asking a team in your con- And let's just go on. 00:32:15.260 --> 00:32:28.280 I think you just go off your conference If you have 10 teams in your conference and that sport program is funded at 10 out of 10 teams, then what are you really saying what your expectations are? 00:32:28.290 --> 00:32:28.310 Yeah. 00:32:28.600 --> 00:32:35.760 Now, if you're funding that, that team in the top three of your conference, then yes, that's a different conversation to have. 00:32:35.760 --> 00:32:44.640 But I don't think ADs are honest with themselves,'cause co- yes, coaching matters and hiring the right person matters, but you also have to give them the resources to be successful, too. 00:32:44.640 --> 00:32:49.260 But that, that's a interview conversation that you need to have, and that's part of the trust process. 00:32:49.930 --> 00:32:58.830 If, if you look at, at any successful coach at any sport that we have at college, they have a good r- at least a fairly decent relationship with their athletic director. 00:32:59.360 --> 00:32:59.590 Yeah. 00:32:59.630 --> 00:33:00.940 And that's like a marriage. 00:33:01.400 --> 00:33:10.350 No matter what anybody wants to talk about, your, your head coach-AD relationship is like being in a marriage, and they are difficult at times, but they're very rewarding at times. 00:33:10.680 --> 00:33:15.520 And, and I think we have to view it that way, that, okay, this is a marriage between the head coach and the athletic director. 00:33:16.110 --> 00:33:27.930 I, I think so many athletic directors, uh,'cause I've talked to so many of them, I think they're afraid to get into that marriage with their coaches because, okay, I just talked to an AD the other day. 00:33:28.110 --> 00:33:28.980 She never coached. 00:33:29.471 --> 00:33:30.660 She was an athletic trainer. 00:33:30.760 --> 00:33:31.680 She's fantastic. 00:33:31.680 --> 00:33:36.600 She's one of the best ADs in the country, but it's because she cares about that marriage. 00:33:36.610 --> 00:33:38.240 She's not afraid to coach her coaches. 00:33:38.430 --> 00:33:43.550 She doesn't see them that they're in a silo, you know, they're on an island by themselves. 00:33:44.080 --> 00:33:47.850 And she's not afraid to sit down and go,"Okay, let's talk about your strategies. 00:33:48.240 --> 00:33:49.270 How are you gonna recruit? 00:33:49.840 --> 00:33:51.180 What's your, what's your process? 00:33:51.410 --> 00:33:52.910 How are you gonna hang up the phone? 00:33:52.920 --> 00:33:58.280 How are you not gonna be the guy with your cell phone on the kitchen table at night when you're eating dinner? 00:33:59.130 --> 00:34:06.790 How are you gonna be healthy?" You know, so I, for me- But you also have to have thick skin in that process, too. 00:34:06.790 --> 00:34:07.260 You do. 00:34:07.270 --> 00:34:10.851 So, so if you're doing it, again, this is where it goes to being able to look yourself in the mirror. 00:34:11.130 --> 00:34:20.831 If you're an athletic director that does everything right, you hire the right person and then they leave and take another job, you know, one, I think you have to be, you know, it, it, it still goes back to gratitude. 00:34:20.831 --> 00:34:22.951 Like,"Hey, I hired the ni- the right person. 00:34:23.190 --> 00:34:24.021 They had success. 00:34:24.030 --> 00:34:25.911 They moved on to another job." Yep. 00:34:26.150 --> 00:34:27.871 You know, be grateful for the time that you had them. 00:34:27.871 --> 00:34:35.411 But then if, if you're competitive at all, you know you're probably going to hire somebody just as good or better behind them. 00:34:35.760 --> 00:34:36.211 That's right. 00:34:36.760 --> 00:34:38.461 And that's where you have to reframe it. 00:34:38.490 --> 00:34:40.061 Yeah, it stinks if you're losing people. 00:34:40.061 --> 00:34:41.050 You gotta rehire people. 00:34:41.050 --> 00:34:50.861 But that's where you have to have some com- competitiveness and some confidence in yourself that as an athletic director, it's like,"I'm gonna hire somebody just as good or better behind them." Yeah. 00:34:51.101 --> 00:34:52.691 Like, I d- I already just did it. 00:34:52.711 --> 00:34:53.851 We hired somebody great. 00:34:54.131 --> 00:34:55.740 I'm gonna turn around and go do that again. 00:34:56.221 --> 00:34:56.481 Yeah. 00:34:57.171 --> 00:35:00.570 I, I, you talked about that, the three years. 00:35:00.570 --> 00:35:01.490 The, you know,"What do you want? 00:35:01.490 --> 00:35:06.663 What do you expect from me in three years?" It's, it's like that's been a lost conversation too. 00:35:06.663 --> 00:35:07.793 What are you gonna do right now? 00:35:07.843 --> 00:35:10.093 Well, you know, it's like going back to Tony. 00:35:10.103 --> 00:35:11.452 There's too many variables. 00:35:11.492 --> 00:35:11.512 Yeah. 00:35:11.523 --> 00:35:11.883 Give them two years. 00:35:11.883 --> 00:35:12.972 There's too many variables. 00:35:13.023 --> 00:35:13.413 Right? 00:35:13.603 --> 00:35:31.913 You know, and, and- There's too many variables I, I mean, any th- a- this is a human, like, if you can tell me w- what we're all gonna look like in 12 months from now, like, none of us are You've got maybe a 10% chance- Right of, of being able to tell me what any of this is gonna look like in 12 months from now. 00:35:32.293 --> 00:35:32.653 That's right. 00:35:32.893 --> 00:35:34.293 Like 10% chance. 00:35:34.613

--> 00:35:34.843 Yeah. 00:35:34.883 --> 00:35:39.653 But just you have to have faith that it's gonna be probably better than what you thought it was gonna be. 00:35:40.003 --> 00:35:40.523 That's right. 00:35:40.722 --> 00:35:56.568 Like, that's a universe thing, and that's why, again, w- why we talk about fail forward moments on our podcast is because what you thought was gonna set you back probably was one of the best things that ever happened to you And we don't know until we go through it way better than you could. 00:35:56.568 --> 00:36:00.133 Uh, and I say, like if I would've got that Kansas State job, I wasn't ready for it. 00:36:00.133 --> 00:36:01.213 I would've got fired. 00:36:01.492 --> 00:36:01.762 Yeah. 00:36:02.073 --> 00:36:11.623 I was way better off staying at James Madison and figuring out how to actually become a recruiting coordinator instead of saying I was one, which I wasn't at that point. 00:36:11.633 --> 00:36:11.653 Yeah. 00:36:12.413 --> 00:36:14.182 And paying my dues where I was at. 00:36:14.273 --> 00:36:17.273 And then when I was ready to get a recruiting coordinator's job, I did. 00:36:17.373 --> 00:36:22.483 I went to Iowa and had a lot of success there, and- Yeah then at Western Illinois. 00:36:22.512 --> 00:36:26.413 But I s- I paid my dues for 15 years- Yeah on that. 00:36:26.443 --> 00:36:41.343 And, and my dad always said that too,"Be careful what you wish for." Everybody thinks they're ready for jobs, and from the outside looking in, everybody thinks jobs are great until you actually have to be in that office and figure out what that job actually entails. 00:36:41.963 --> 00:36:44.373 You know, everybody's like,"Yeah, I could go be the head coach here. 00:36:44.373 --> 00:36:47.443 I could go be the manager of the Giants or whatever." No, you can't. 00:36:47.483 --> 00:36:49.403 Like, you're not prepared for that job. 00:36:49.413 --> 00:36:49.432 Yeah. 00:36:49.873 --> 00:36:53.423 And if you get it, you'll be miserable because you know you're not ready for it. 00:36:53.803 --> 00:36:53.883 Yeah. 00:36:53.893 --> 00:36:57.833 Like, at the end of the day you'll be miserable because, you know, y- you know you're not ready for it. 00:36:58.113 --> 00:37:04.883 Now, some jobs you're never gonna be ready for and you just gotta get in there, but you have to have some experience built up before you can, can take a job. 00:37:05.613 --> 00:37:06.353 At least a little bit. 00:37:06.753 --> 00:37:11.512 Unless you're an entpr- entrepreneur and you're starting your own thing, then that's a completely different deal. 00:37:11.972 --> 00:37:12.282 You betcha. 00:37:12.323 --> 00:37:20.012 You know, if you're an entrepreneur and you're gonna start your own business or whatever, then go have at it and, and good luck to you because you're probably gonna start something great. 00:37:20.012 --> 00:37:22.793 But there's gonna be a lot of growing pains with being an entrepreneur too. 00:37:22.972 --> 00:37:26.163 You and I could do an entirely another podcast on just that. 00:37:26.202 --> 00:37:26.233 Yes. 00:37:26.633 --> 00:37:30.273 Um, l- let's, let's wrap this up. 00:37:30.273 --> 00:37:31.793 This has been so good, Coach. 00:37:31.893 --> 00:37:35.053 Um, I, I could talk to you for three more hours about this stuff. 00:37:35.932 --> 00:37:43.532 I wanna talk a little bit, if, l- let's go all the way down to youth, high school baseball, small college. 00:37:43.573 --> 00:37:50.095 Let's look at it all If we're gonna hire coaches, what are those foundational pieces? 00:37:50.095 --> 00:38:00.325 'Cause we know that depending on the level, they're gonna have to deal with parents in a different way, they're gonna have to deal with NIL in a different way, they're gonna have to deal with scholarship, they're gonna have to deal with facility issues in different ways. 00:38:00.615 --> 00:38:10.235 What are those foundational characteristics that a hiring manager needs to be looking at before they put somebody in front of kids? 00:38:10.235 --> 00:38:12.655 What are those things that you think need to be there? 00:38:13.434 --> 00:38:14.545 Care's a big one. 00:38:15.265 --> 00:38:16.245 Do they actually care? 00:38:16.255 --> 00:38:22.894 I mean, uh, you, you can, you can cover up a lot of other things as long as they actually care and have some care. 00:38:23.055 --> 00:38:28.245 They're gonna make some mistakes, but if it's coming from the heart, I, I think you can live with that. 00:38:28.704 --> 00:38:35.355 Um, yes, they have to have some aptitude for their job, and they, they have to be proficient in certain areas, but not all of them. 00:38:35.865 --> 00:38:42.325 Um, but I still feel like it, it, it goes back to do they actually care about the people- Yeah that, that are around them. 00:38:43.285 --> 00:38:47.974 Um, and that, that's a tough thing, especially in today's society, but it still goes back to... 00:38:48.184 --> 00:38:49.875 That, that's not going to change. 00:38:50.945 --> 00:38:55.224 You know, it's always been about that, caring for the people that are around you and close to you. 00:38:55.224 --> 00:38:55.585 Mm-hmm. 00:38:55.585 --> 00:38:58.255 And then that, that's never going to change. 00:38:58.335 --> 00:39:10.495 You can bring all the robots and AI you want in the world, it's still gonna go back to people caring about each other What are you seeing coaches demonstrate that care? 00:39:10.724 --> 00:39:26.815 'Cause w- we've got a group, we've got an age group that's coming into college now, and they're, they're, they might not be coming out of a high school program where there was a lot of love and a lot of community and a lot of us instead of I, you know? 00:39:27.675 --> 00:39:34.155 Everybody's trying to win, everybody's got their own private coach, everybody's spending$10,000 a year playing travel baseball. 00:39:34.805 --> 00:39:44.855 What are the r- the really great coaches doing to demonstrate that care to a kid that's coming

into the program and getting them to understand,"Hey, we do this together. 00:39:45.215 --> 00:39:47.175 There's humility in everything we do. 00:39:47.184 --> 00:39:48.525 We learn from each other. 00:39:48.555 --> 00:39:49.555 We make mistakes. 00:39:49.555 --> 00:39:51.635 We're gonna fail, but we're gonna pick each other up"? 00:39:51.825 --> 00:39:55.305 What, what, what are those great coaches doing to demonstrate that care? 00:39:55.625 --> 00:39:58.434 I wanna back up and talk to the parents and kids on that, though. 00:39:58.715 --> 00:40:13.305 Like, i- if you're in a youth program right now or a high school program that doesn't do that, if you wanna keep moving up levels, you're gonna eventually be on a team that is, that is expected of you- Yeah to be selfless and we're playing to win. 00:40:13.905 --> 00:40:29.434 So you're better off introducing kids to that at an early age, because if they wanna keep advancing, and this is why a lot of kids get out of it, is because eventually they're gonna be asked to be selfless and, and buy into team concepts, and that's why a lot of them end up quitting, because they've never been asked that. 00:40:29.434 --> 00:40:35.315 So the earlier you can ask a kid to be selfless and buy into team confi- concepts, they probably have a pretty good chance of making it. 00:40:35.735 --> 00:40:44.215 Now, they gotta have talent, um, but you know, again, like I said, like, there's a coach out there that does it this way that's successful. 00:40:44.245 --> 00:40:45.085 There's a coach out there... 00:40:45.085 --> 00:40:51.345 So there's coaches out there that probably aren't all bought into that- Yeah but are still having successful. 00:40:51.445 --> 00:41:00.184 But it's the old quote,"I've never seen a jackass win the Kentucky Derby." If you have really good players, I, I don't care. 00:41:00.184 --> 00:41:04.184 If you have r- No if you have really good players, you don't have to really... 00:41:04.275 --> 00:41:06.045 I mean, yes, it still helps. 00:41:06.325 --> 00:41:06.664 Yeah. 00:41:06.894 --> 00:41:12.615 But if you're running thoroughbreds out there against donkeys- Yeah you got a, you got a chance. 00:41:12.835 --> 00:41:13.215 So. 00:41:13.914 --> 00:41:14.115 Yeah. 00:41:14.115 --> 00:41:17.045 It's, it's- Well, that's, that's why evaluation is such a big part of this. 00:41:17.115 --> 00:41:18.467 Yes, and the great ones- Can they evaluate talent? 00:41:18.467 --> 00:41:19.595 the great ones do both. 00:41:19.625 --> 00:41:19.644 Yeah. 00:41:19.655 --> 00:41:23.985 The great ones do both, especially at, at the Division I level, well, every level of college now. 00:41:23.995 --> 00:41:24.015 Yeah. 00:41:24.265 --> 00:41:32.795 The head coach is a really good evaluator, still gets their hands dirty, and, and is in the recruiting process, but then can really coach and can really manage people. 00:41:33.035 --> 00:41:33.235 Yeah. 00:41:33.255 --> 00:41:44.135 Like tho- those are the unicorns out there, is, is they still are active in the recruiting process, they're still active in the development process, and they're active in the managing of human beings. 00:41:44.295 --> 00:41:46.155 And they do all of it, and they do all of it great. 00:41:46.525 --> 00:41:46.715 You know? 00:41:46.715 --> 00:41:46.815 Yeah. 00:41:46.815 --> 00:41:51.644 I think a guy like a Jim Schlossnagle- Yeah uh, really good at all of it. 00:41:52.125 --> 00:41:54.405 Uh, Tim Corbin is really good at all of it. 00:41:54.745 --> 00:41:55.085 That's true. 00:41:55.115 --> 00:41:58.655 Um, but again, they, they have their ups and down years, too. 00:41:58.965 --> 00:41:59.925 I love it, Coach. 00:41:59.995 --> 00:42:02.065 Uh, thank you so much for doing this. 00:42:02.445 --> 00:42:04.245 Uh- Enjoyed it come back on Monday. 00:42:04.445 --> 00:42:10.454 Ryan was one of the best, baseball recruiting coaches and coordinators in the country for a long, long time. 00:42:10.655 --> 00:42:13.755 He understands recruiting as well as anybody I know. 00:42:14.105 --> 00:42:22.245 Uh, so come back Monday and we're gonna dive in and just have a conversation on recruiting for all you families that are going through that journey or wanna go through that journey and wanna understand it better. 00:42:22.245 --> 00:42:23.275 So thanks for doing this, Coach. 00:42:23.715 --> 00:42:24.184 You got it. 00:42:24.184 --> 00:42:24.495 Thanks, Matt. 00:42:25.756 --> 00:42:28.925 I could talk baseball and coaching with Ryan Brownlee all day. 00:42:29.086 --> 00:42:36.826 He spent his career teaching, recruiting, developing players, and now helping coaches across the country get better through his work with the ABCA. 00:42:37.056 --> 00:42:45.575 I love his curiosity and the way his mind works and his willingness to keep learning and how much he genuinely cares about the people in this profession. 00:42:45.885 --> 00:42:53.905 A big thank you to Ryan for joining me and to the entire ABCA staff for everything they continue to do for the game and for the coaches at every level. 00:42:54.235 --> 00:43:00.375 Until next time, control what you can control, stay humble, and keep chasing significance