Full Transcript for Becs Gentry & Friends Take Us Way Beyond the Marathon Distance

climb over 30, 000 feet and you circumnavigate the French Alps. Well, Mont Blanc, not the whole of the French Alps, but Mont Blanc mountain range. We're going to talk more about that in the episode and it is one of the most difficult, one of the most challenging of the UTMB races in the world, let alone one of the most challenging of the trail races in the world. Sitting just underneath that is CCC, the race that I did. CCC is essentially about three quarters of the full loop around the Mont Blanc mountain range. And CCC stands for Courmayeur- Champex- Chamonix. That are the three areas of three different countries that the runners will traverse through while they complete the race. So Courmayeur, Italy where the race starts and you go through Champex in Switzerland and you finish in Chamonix, France. Whereas UTMB, Ultra Trail du Mont Blanc, the big loop, it starts and finishes in Chamonix, France. So the third race that is going to come up in conversation today is this thing that is called TDS. Direct translation into English, you're not going to hear the acronyms, but it stands for Sur les Traces des Ducs de Savoie. That means in the footsteps of the Dukes of Savoy. And it is a world renowned ultramarathon. It's held annually in the Alps and it is part of UTMB week. It is very long and probably the most technical and demanding of the eight races that happen during UTMB week. So hopefully that has given you an insight into it. I really do recommend having a little look online to just dig in a bit deeper if it is something that tickles your fancy. As I mentioned, you have to earn your spot in these races. They are not given. UTMB and HOKA are one of the main sponsors. Do not give bibs away for these races. Running influencers are not permitted to show up and compete in these races. There are ways in which you have to earn your stripes to get into these races because they are so demanding on the body. You have to prove that you can handle it before you toe the line. So I just want to put that out there. So now we have kind of gone through the whos, wheres, and whats of these acronyms and these races and a little bit, a teeny bit of background of what it takes for the day- to- day runner to line up in any of them. Basically stay tuned because we are here today to hear from Margot, from Jeremiah, and from myself about our personal experiences within UTMB and CCC. Whether you're in NYC to run, cheer, or explore, planning your marathon weekend just got easier. With Get Your Guide, you can explore the five boroughs at your own pace, see more than the finish line with guided experiences in all five boroughs, and if your plans change, your booking can too with flexible cancellation options. 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Jeremiah Maestre is a former fighter turned ultra runner, someone who clearly likes pain, from Orange County, California, who ran his first marathon in Maui in December of 2022 and has since taken on the Marathon des Sables twice, the Canyons 100 mile, and now his first CCC, which he finished in 21 hours and 41 minutes. That's also known as a day to you and me. Margot Fleming is also with us. She's an ultra runner and a coach based in Los Angeles whose father, Tom Fleming, won the New York City Marathon in 1973 and again in 1975. There's some lineage for you. Margot ran the TCS New York City Marathon in 2023 on our team Inspire, marking 50 years since her dad's first win. Just a few weeks ago, she also crossed the finish line in Chamonix completing the full Ultra Trail du Mont Blanc, 173 kilometers and 33,000 feet of climbing, that's like plain altitude, in 42 hours and eight minutes. Jeremiah and Margot met at a 60 kilometer race, just 60 kilometers, in California last January. And they are both, it turns out, friends of Becs'. Jeremiah and Margot, welcome to a very masochistic version of Set the Pace. How are you? 00:08:31 Margot Fleming: I'm great. 00:08:31 Jeremiah Maestre: Thank you. 00:08:31 Rob Simmelkjaer: It's great to have you. 00:08:31 Becs Gentry: This is like bring my favorite friends to school day for me who love pain. You're like my show and tell. I'm like, look, aren't they amazing? 00:08:47 Jeremiah Maestre: Unique set of friends. 00:08:49 Becs Gentry: Exactly. Thank you both for being here. I'm very appreciative of you getting up early as you're both on

the West Coast to talk about the weird stuff that us runners like to do. 00:09:01 Rob Simmelkjaer: All right. So I just need to understand how you get to the starting line of these kinds of events. So what made you pick the race that you picked? Jeremiah, I'll start with you. 00:09:14 Jeremiah Maestre: Yeah, I mean, I really took a deep dive into trail running about three years ago and I heard of this race called the UTMB, and it's known as the most prestigious mountain race in the world. And I also heard of how difficult it was. You mentioned the Marathon des Sables earlier. That was my first kind of entryway into ultra marathons and trail running. And for context for the audience, the Marathon des Sables is 155 miles across the Sahara Desert. Margot's done it as well. You run for six days across the Sahara Desert carrying a backpack with all your food and equipment, so one pair of clothes, traveling light. And that was my first intro to trail running. And then I started to hear that there were more difficult races than that. So I went and seeked them out. Obviously the UTMB is the most prestigious one. It's the Super Bowl of trail running. And I just started mapping out a pathway to get to that start line because you have to qualify for it. You have to gain running stones, which are entries into their lottery, and you have to do races within the World Series to get to France where that race is. 00:10:30 Rob Simmelkjaer: Amazing. 00:10:31 Becs Gentry: It's tough all the way. 00:10:34 Rob Simmelkjaer: Yeah. Margot, what was your journey to this? We talked about it a little bit. 00:10:38 Margot Fleming: I've been running ultras probably since 2010 when I still lived in New York, but there's not as many options within your driving distance. But when I moved to the West Coast, I kind of got a better taste for it and a lot of the characters and the people. It's really the community, I think, that really introed me to like, " Oh, have you thought of this? Do you know about this race series?" And UTMB was kind of small I'd say at that point, but they had quite a few infamous races like Western States. And you get pulled into the lore of ultra running pretty quick. So you know the, " Oh, you've got to get and do this and you got to go to Western, you got to go to Leadville or wherever." And UTMB is, as Jeremiah said, the international Super Bowl of ultra running. So if you're not going to do the ones within the US, you've got to go to France. And I jumped into it eventually. It took me a few years, but I jumped right to

the hardest race that they had, which I don't recommend anyone do at all. And then I kind of took a more... Because you can also get in without doing the whole stone capture thing, which is fun. But I ended up spending three years trying to collect stones to get into UTMB. And I think that that was appropriate. Maybe I could have used another year. 00:12:06 Rob Simmelkjaer: What are these stones? What stones? 00:12:09 Margot Fleming: They call it stones, but they're essentially like raffle tickets that they balance with an index score that you gather from the difficulty of the races you run around the world. And it's a very interesting system. 00:12:20 Becs Gentry: It's only a UTMB thing. Very interesting. I'm still like, where does this index come from? The races you complete, the difficulty level of the races that you complete feeds into your UTMB index in your MyUTMB dashboard if you are part of that world. The stones, Rob, are essentially like your accolades, your tickets. Once you finish the race, you get your medal and then certain races, as Joe said, in the World Series have stones. And depending on the distance and the difficulty level, there's one, two, three, four stones. And you can apply those stones once you achieve them to your qualification level. But because of the intensity of certain of the UTMB races, they have to see that you are capable of completing other races before you're even allowed to put your name in the hat to run a race like TDS, UTMB, CCC, et cetera. 00:13:23 Rob Simmelkjaer: Now that's something that makes sense to me. Yes, because I would not want to put someone- 00:13:27 Becs Gentry: As a race director, yes as well. 00:13:28 Rob Simmelkjaer: Yeah. You don't want to put someone in a situation that they can't handle. And speaking of that TDS race, Becs, Margot, you were in that, but you had to stop at one point a couple years ago. I think 97 kilometers in, you had to stop with 50 still to go at 3: 00 in the morning, which sounds horrible. Tell us about that and how you went from that experience to wanting to do more of this. 00:13:54 Margot Fleming: Yeah. TDS, I was overzealous and overeager to just jump into European alpine racing. Admittedly, I've learned a lot since then. TDS was one I could just register for, pay for, and get into. And the lore was that it's very hard. It's debatably harder than UTMB. And I was like, " Oh, it'll be fine." I significantly underestimated my caloric and carbohydrate intake. I was just way, way, way, way under. In that race, it's 90 miles, so it's like 18 shorter than UTMB, but

it's still 30, 000 feet of climbing. And so your effort is unreal the whole time, from the minute you start. The cutoffs are tight, the climbing is intense. And I completely miscalculated calories, didn't even bring enough food, truly, and ate through pretty much all I had to the point of palate fatigue. And I was in such a caloric deficit that I couldn't get out of it by 100K. So my mind was gone and I was just very negative and couldn't get out. So I made the decision to have my friend, I was like, " I'm done. I don't want to do this anymore. It's not fun," and we left. And I beat myself up about that for quite a while of just quitting. And so I was like, " Okay, I'm coming back. I'm doing this, but I got to do it different." And I'm just going to do UTMB because apparently it's easier. It's not. It's still very hard. But yeah, I just put myself on a different trajectory and was like, " I got to invest a different amount of time and strength training and love into this if I'm going to actually get through it and I don't want to beat myself up like I just did again. So it's got to be different." 00:16:01 Jeremiah Maestre: I got to give Margot even more credit because the most technical part of CCC and UTMB, I found a clip of an elite runner going through it super quickly. And I posted the clip online and I said, " Runners, how difficult is going through this terrain?" And another elite runner commented on that clip and they said, " Oh, this is nothing compared to TDS." So it's an extremely more difficult course, hence why you could just get into it. Not everyone's dying to do TDS like UTMB. 00:16:36 Becs Gentry: No. Most people will avoid it. I think this year there was something like a somewhere between 40 and 50% DNF on the TDS course. And I mean, Jer, we sat there in that beautiful chalet the night before our race and we looked to our left and the mountain range is there and we suddenly see these headlights snaking through the tree, one or two. And we're both like, " What crazy fool is coming down that mountain right now?" And then there's like, " Huh, there's another headlight. Oh, it must be a group of them." And then we're on our phones like, " Oh my gosh, we are watching the TDS runners descend down into," I think it was La Flegere area or somewhere like that, or Jonte, wherever you go down to. And it was wild to just see that. That was nowhere near the end for them. They still had so much to go. But yeah, Margot, you were super hard off. 00:17:38 Jeremiah Maestre: Yeah. This year the race started at midnight too. And it thunderstorming. 00:17:43 Becs Gentry: And hot in the day too. Yeah, thunderstorms and then the day was boiling hot. 00:17:47 Jeremiah Maestre: And raining. 00:17:48 Becs Gentry: And then the night was that second night. But I mean, most people have two nights and maybe three sunrises, I think. Is that right, Margot? 00:17:57 Margot Fleming: Yeah. Yeah. You start at 11:50. I think people might go into three nights on that. Yeah. 00:18:04 Rob Simmelkjaer: Becs, we talked at one point on the podcast about your decision to go in this direction, which made so much sense to me. You wanted to change things up. I mean, so many years and miles on the roads and the kind of burnout that you were feeling around that and wanted to change things up a little bit. Can you talk about... Because you were smartly not talking too much ahead of time about the races you were going to do in this space, you didn't want to put pressure on yourself. When did you decide that you were going to do this race, the CCC this year? 00:18:53 Becs Gentry: Technically about 12 years ago. It was just kind of when Margot and I met. We were both affiliated with Nike at the time. And UTMB week was a great deal smaller than it is now. The current mayor of Chamonix would've liked it back then. And right now, I mean, I can't even tell you how much bigger it is, but it's huge. And it was a much smaller race. Nike Trail as it was back then was relatively new and up and coming. Their athletes were leading the way, leading the charge for trail running. And we were out there on an event and I just remember seeing these people coming over the finish lines of CCC and UTMB and just being so almost morbidly fascinated about what happens in the hours between the start line and the finish line. Could I do that? Is that in my realm of possibility? And at the time I was like, no, no. And I was trail running at the time, but very, very small and just very different, not alpine races, not mountainous races. And it was something that never left me. I found myself listening to Vangelis a lot, which is the finish line and start line song of UTMB. And it would always invoke this sense of power in me. And I just kept thinking, well, if the song can do that, what could the race do? What could the achievement do? But it was never the right time. And if I've learned anything about having a child, it's never the right time for anything. You just got to commit at some point. And I signed with HOKA, who are the title sponsor. And I will just go so far as to say right

now, HOKA did not give me a spot in CCC. I had to earn it like everybody else. I've had a few people throw that at me. And you can see UTMB is a public website. You can go on and you can check how I got my stones and I earned them. 00:21:04 Rob Simmelkjaer: That's right people. She earned her way in there. 00:21:06 Becs Gentry: I earned my way in there, so... 00:21:06 Rob Simmelkjaer: Don't call her an influencer. 00:21:11 Becs Gentry: Don't call me a running influencer. You'll be defriended. 00:21:13 Rob Simmelkjaer: Thank you so much. 00:21:15 Becs Gentry: And that was just a time of like, hold on, I can commit to this life now because I have a great brand supporting me. I moved out of the city for some of the time and I was in, I'm not going to call these mountains anymore because now I'm educated, but hills around here. 00:21:34 Rob Simmelkjaer: The hills of upstate New York. The rolling hills of upstate New York. 00:21:39 Becs Gentry: The rolling hills of upstate New York and the Appalachian Trail. And it felt like a doable time to do it. And I would say all the way up until the finish line, I doubted myself in my ability to do it. And I think that's just one of the things. I guess we've heard from Margot doing TDS and she had to stop. And to me, Margot is one of my grittiest friends that I will ever know. She just does crazy stuff and so does Jeremiah, the two of them. And to know that both of them have had DNFs in races that I'm like, wow, and they keep coming back. And I think there is always this sense of self- doubt until you see that finish line, especially in a race that is as technical as UTMB and CCC. 00:22:22 Rob Simmelkjaer: Let's try to paint the picture of what it's really like to complete one of these races for someone who does not do this kind of thing, for most of our listeners who are folks who run road races, they run marathons, and that's kind of where they live. Jeremiah, I'll start with you. Okay? Let's go to the starting line of CCC and just take us there for a second. What are you looking ahead at? What is this challenge? I know you got a pretty steep climb out of the gate in this event. You're in the French Alps for crying out loud, so there's nothing but ups and downs. What's going through your head here? 00:23:04 Jeremiah Maestre: Yeah, I mean, so much is going through my head. And the funny thing is all week it was hot, but the morning CCC started, we had crazy thunderstorms and hail and freezing rain at the top of the first climb. It was insane and the steepest climbs I've ever had to do. I mean, I'm

currently in the mountains now in Big Bear, California, and these look like little bumps compared to the Alps. And the terrain is extremely steep. And then the downhills, they aren't as steep, but they're gradual. So you may climb for 8K or six miles, but then you're going to descend for a half- marathon and you're going to do that over and over. So you do the steepest climbs up to these most beautiful peaks, and then you run down these, what they call balcony trails, which have the most insane views of the Alps into the most beautiful little towns in Italy, Switzerland, and France. But mentally, you do so much work to get to that start line that mentally you tell yourself, " I'll do whatever it takes." And unfortunately, sometimes there's things out of your control that'll pull you out of the race. But mentally, for me, I was like, " I will crawl through that finish line if I need to." And that was the mental state of me. 00:24:39 Rob Simmelkjaer: Can you, Margot, talk about just the experience? So you're going up, I think that it's like 1, 400 meters up out of the gate and it was raining. How many people are in this event? 00:24:58 Margot Fleming: 2, 400, I think. 00:25:01 Becs Gentry: Well, let me just caveat. Where Margot starts is different to where Jeremiah and I started. 00:25:09 Rob Simmelkjaer: Got it. 00:25:09 Becs Gentry: So Margot did, for our visual listeners, Margot essentially did the Alps, Mont Blanc mountain range in the Alps, you can circumnavigate it, which makes it sound easy because it makes it sounds like you're going on a flat road. You're not. You're going over them and around them. So essentially it's called the full loop that goes around the Mont Blanc mountain range. Jeremiah and I did CCC, which is technically three quarters of the way around the mountain range. So we started in Courmayeur, Italy, and we went through Courmayeur into Switzerland and then finished in Chamonix, France. Margot and the UTMB runners, they start and finish in Chamonix, France because they do the full loop. So we kind of catch each other up, I think, guys, correct me if I'm wrong, but Italy is kind of where our courses start crossing over. 00:26:01 Margot Fleming: Yeah, Courmayeur. 00:26:03 Becs Gentry: Courmayeur. 00:26:03 Margot Fleming: Yeah. 00:26:03 Becs Gentry: Yeah. So it's kind of wild. And then their start is normally the night of the day that CCC starts. But Margot, I mean, you can tell this story about the start because it was different this year. 00:26:19 Margot Fleming: Yeah. You start in town with the thickest crowds you've ever seen on

these little tiny Chamonix streets. And we're pretty much just within the valley for a couple miles and then begin kind of like a slow descent, kind of an unnecessary few thousand feet climb and then back into Les Houches, which is a town down the valley. And then you start to pick up on climbs. And I mean, we started two hours later, so we pretty much started in the dark immediately, which usually it starts in the afternoon so you get a couple hours, but they moved it due to storms. But you started with these thick crowds of people, a lot of French people, but just this international crowd. It's the closest I'll ever get to the Tour. People are on you reading your bib like, " Go, Margot, go." And I'm sure you guys all have- 00:27:12 Rob Simmelkjaer: Like the Tour de France you mean, like the cycling? 00:27:13 Margot Fleming: Exactly. Yeah. That's how tight they are around you. 00:27:15 Becs Gentry: They can touch you. There's no barriers like you'd have at a Marathon Majors race. You can smell them. 00:27:24 Margot Fleming: Yeah. And they smell you. 00:27:25 Rob Simmelkjaer: For better or worse. 00:27:25 Margot Fleming: And they're having a party and it's great. Yeah. They're out there drinking and partying and I'm like, " That looks like so much more fun." But yeah, they're on you for quite maybe five miles. They're pretty close to you. Yeah. And you got to manage that energy because it's a lot of like, " Yeah, I'm going to do this. I'm going to do this, but I'm not going to jet off because I'm not even two miles into this." But yeah. 00:27:54 Rob Simmelkjaer: Becs, I just want to ask you then, I mean, for you, and you came out with that crazy steep climb, how did your legs feel after going up 1, 400 meters? I know you've talked about not at some point... I know there's the poles you've been using. Were you using the poles at that point or did you actually let go of the poles? 00:28:14 Becs Gentry: I did not stow my poles once. From the minute I took them out, my poles stayed out for 19 hours. 00:28:25 Rob Simmelkjaer: And there's nothing wrong with that. 00:28:26 Becs Gentry: Nothing wrong with that. 00:28:26 Rob Simmelkjaer: I get it. 00:28:26 Becs Gentry: I am not. 00:28:26 Rob Simmelkjaer: Were most of the runners using them at that point, Becs, or were you kind of... 00:28:30 Becs Gentry: Yeah. Even some of the elites who didn't go out for our race for CCC without poles said in most of them in their post- race interviews are like, " Now I understand why people use poles for these races." Because for me, I'm a way stronger uphill climber. Downhill is my absolute downfall. I am terrible. The more technical it gets, the more fearful I get, the more convinced I'm going to just go headfirst, knock myself out, and that's the end of it. So I tend to use my poles for a bit of stability. Also, they're like my security blanket. Even if I'm not actually using them, they're stowed in one hand. Maybe someone out there is like, "You're a fool. You'd be way better if you had your balance and they were stowed away." For sure. I could see that in my future, but for now they were ready to just ground me, stab the ground and anchor me should I try and wobble over. So that first climb for me, I mean, as Jeremiah said, it was wet when we started. I just remember turning around. I was at the back of my crawl and Joe was at the front of his crawl and he's in his hood and Jeremiah is a muscular, strong looking human. And I turn around and he's got his hood up. I have never seen him look so small. I just wanted to run over to him and cuddle him and be like, " Buddy, we're going to be okay. We're going to be okay." He was in the zone that only a fighter turned runner could get into of no one else was around him. I'm like, " Hi," trying to get his attention. Nope, nothing, nothing. 00:30:07 Jeremiah Maestre: I didn't see you once after that starting shoot. 00:30:10 Becs Gentry: Exactly. Oh, but we were just in shock of how the weather could change. But then just knowing as we started that climb, it's a single track all the way up, unless you are a bit of a jerk and go off into the national park. I had a few of those people come past me. And you're just like, it's slippy. There's rain literally giving you what's that microneedling feeling on your face. And you've got your hood up over your pack because you want to try and keep your pack as dry as possible. So you've got your waterproof over your pack. So you're already a little bit tighter than you'd like to be trying to climb with these poles. The wind's like bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang in your ear and everything. I have ADHD, so that to me, I was like, " There's too much happening right now. Get me out of here. This wind." And it never ended. And I think because we couldn't see the top, the peak of this climb because of the weather and the low- lying cloud, it felt relentless because you just kept fricking going. And just to give you some humor, we got to the top, obviously finally, I think it was like 9K up to the top there, which took a good couple of hours, and a gust of wind came and took me out. I went flying.

00:31:33 Rob Simmelkjaer: Just blew you over? 00:31:34 Becs Gentry: Flying. I went face first down the side of the mountain. Three men had to pull me up by my legs because I was just starfish on the floor in complete shock of like, " What the fuck just..." Sorry. "What just happened?" I was just like, "Whoa. Hold on. A second ago I was standing up and now I'm literally looking at the ground." And then we had what I think on a dry day would've been some really excellent plateau balcony running of winding, but it was so wet and you're trying to avoid these massive cow poop piles. If you do slip, you don't want to go headfirst into one of those. So skidding around up there. So I stay at that very long story to say, I didn't really think of my legs and the muscular endurance in that moment too much because there was so much else that I was like, " Ooh, God, this is more frustrating. I know my legs have got to stay with me for a hundred plus kilometers. So let's just hope this weather doesn't." 00:32:35 Jeremiah Maestre: The wind was so strong. At one point I was like, " This is so dangerous. I can't believe we're all doing this." And it got cold and windy and to the point we're at the peak and I'm like, " I got to take out my gloves, but I can't stop. If I stop, the wind's going to blow me over." 00:32:55 Becs Gentry: And then you just saw my foot in the air. 00:32:55 Rob Simmelkjaer: Like it blew Becs over. Yeah. And these courses actually had to be changed, I guess on the fly because of the weather. Can you talk about that, Jeremiah? How do you even find out about these course changes? And then how does that affect you as you thought you were doing one thing and now all of a sudden it's a totally different route? 00:33:18 Jeremiah Maestre: Yeah. You're just trying to get to aid station to aid station. And then when you get to each aid station, they'll give you updates. And if you're blessed enough to have a crew there supporting you, your crew will give you the updates as well. But the ending changed so much as well. And I guess we could talk about that more when we get to that part, but the weather dictated so much of the race. And times were extended. And in road running, you add an extra 5K, you're like, okay, I may run 30 more minutes. You add an extra 5K in a trail race like this and this terrain, you're adding extra two hours out there. 00:33:59 Rob Simmelkjaer: I think that it'd be so much fun if we just started changing the routes of our races in the middle of the race. That would be amazing. In the middle of a TCS New York City Marathon, you know what, we're going to skip Queens. We're going to go this way. We're going to go that way. 00:34:11 Becs Gentry: Back to Staten Island. 00:34:11 Rob Simmelkjaer: People would really love that. Not. Margot, your food situation, can we talk about that? So how did you improve your fueling strategy from what happened to you before to this race? 00:34:29 Margot Fleming: This time I did a lot more research and I tried a lot of different things and different products and things. I've also had a couple more races between TDS and UTMB. So I was able to go out and test my nutrition and my carb per hour, which is a massive unlock in ultra running. I think going from calories an hour to carbohydrates is what you need. And so shifting to that mindset, figuring out how much I need personally based on how much I burn an hour. I had a hundred mile or two between then and now to test it. And I actually went to Chamonix and in June of this year I did the TMB loop, the racecourse, with a wonderful group of friends and we did it over four days and I used that as my mental and physical and dietary nutrition test for the race in August. So brought nutrition, figured out what I liked, and just tested everything. And I still failed a little bit. I give myself in the race probably a C minus on food, so I still have opportunities to learn more there, especially in the long distance. But I just practiced, good old practice. And people say eating in these races is the hardest part because we're all strong athletes and strong- minded, but eating for 42 hours, every hour for 42 hours is really hard to do. And doing it for 21 hours is equally hard because that's what we normally are doing too. It's hard. You're like, " I don't want to eat anymore." And everyone around you is like, "You've got to keep eating." So yeah. 00:36:30 Becs Gentry: It's a skill. 00:36:31 Margot Fleming: Not great. It is a skill. Yeah. 00:36:32 Jeremiah Maestre: It's a true skill. I mean, depending on what the weather's like too, your body will need certain types of food. Whether it's day or night, you're eating differently. Whether it's 40 degrees or 70 degrees, you're eating differently. Your salt intake is different. Your fluid intake is different. So you're doing math on the fly. 00:36:55 Rob Simmelkjaer: Yeah. Do they have much for you with the aid stations, Becs? What happens at the aid stations? 00:36:59 Becs Gentry: Yeah. The aid stations are great in Europe. So essentially we're talking about it being a skill because it's not gels for the most part. There are

definitely athletes out there who can do these races, but I'm talking more elite athletes are going to do gels for these kinds of things. But to Margot's point, for 42 hours, for 21 hours, however long you're out there, to be taking gels on board, you have to have a very strong stomach and constitution for your body to be able to continue utilizing those gels in the right way rather than rejecting them simply. Over the marathon distance, we can do that. Our bodies are like, okay, cool. You've probably practiced it in your training for weeks and months on end. But when it comes to these longer distance and these more challenging environments that you're in, be it terrain or weather, you're actually getting to the aid stations and there is pasta, there are fries, there's pizza. As Jer said, if you're lucky enough to have a crew there, they may have brought you your favorite food. I saw burritos, quesadillas, I saw burgers, I saw full on moving picnics for some people in those crude aid stations. And then in the other aid stations, there was not gels on hand. There weren't Honey Stingers and whatever brand of gel essentially. I didn't see that at all on CCC. I saw waffles. I saw lots of quick fire sugar fruit, hydrating fruits like watermelons. I mean, this is so French, cheese stations. So there were four different types of cheese you could choose from. 00:38:45 Rob Simmelkjaer: Fondue, raclette? 00:38:45 Becs Gentry: There was raclette. There was raclette. 00:38:46 Margot Fleming: Raclette. 00:38:46 Rob Simmelkjaer: Yes. Love a good raclette. 00:38:46 Becs Gentry: There was raclette and crackers and carbohydrate drinks and water. And it was a very different thing. But trying to sit in an aid station, when I got to see my crew, Austin has got all the kinds of beige food lined up for me to try and eat, and I'm just staring at him blankly, like nothing is going on behind the scenes. And he's like, " Open your mouth," trying to feed a fry. Normally I'll inhale fries before anything. It's so difficult to try and get that food in and want it. Your body is like, " Stop. You're making me do so many other things. Don't make me digest food as well. What is wrong with you?" But it's like you stuff your pockets. I kept stuffing my pockets with fruit pastels and I did take some cheese because the amount of protein in it and cheese doesn't spoil, Parmesan cheese especially. Susie talks about this a lot. Parmesan cheese doesn't spoil. I think on Marathon des Sables, that they give you cheese there too because it doesn't spoil in the sun, Parmesan or

something. I don't know. 00:39:57 Rob Simmelkjaer: So take me into the overnights. And you guys finished at different times, Margot, Becs. Well, Becs, you finished at 4: 00 in the morning, right? 00:40:08 Becs Gentry: Yeah. 00:40:10 Rob Simmelkjaer: Jeremiah at 7: 00. Margot, what time did you finish your run? 00:40:16 Margot Fleming: Embarrassingly, I think around noon or 1: 00 in the afternoon. So broad sunlight. 00:40:21 Becs Gentry: Beautiful day. 00:40:22 Margot Fleming: Yeah, lunchtime. 00:40:24 Rob Simmelkjaer: What happens overnight? Tell me what happens overnight. You're moving through the night, right? You're not stopping. Is it headlamps? What are you doing to keep track of where you are, where the route is? What kind of help are you getting out there to stay on the route in the middle of the night? 00:40:44 Becs Gentry: I mean, Jeremiah, I asked a lot of these questions to him because he's done so many of these super long races and I've done very few. And if I have done, I've done them as part of a team. So I've always had people with me. So soloing it was new. And so Jer is my guide on this. But it was like headlamps. And you're never going to get lost on a course. I will say that. For the UTMB races I've done, they're like World Marathon Majors, it's World Series. They will put more than necessary on the course to keep people going in the right direction because it is of absolute paramount importance to runner safety because you are in such crazy terrain. So you'd have to be kind of foolish to get lost or delirious. Something in your brain is not quite functioning and you've just taken a wrong turn without realizing it. But the night was kind of scary in a weird way, but I also didn't notice. I was thinking before the race, I was thinking I was going to get nervous when the sun started to set and start thinking or overthinking the process of keeping moving through the night. I don't remember the sun setting. Surely, surely there has to have been a beautiful alpine sunset that I missed, but I didn't see it. It was like all of a sudden- 00:42:09 Margot Fleming: You look down at the rocks. 00:42:10 Becs Gentry: Yeah. I'm staring at the rocks. I'm staring at my feet. 00:42:13 Margot Fleming: You're looking at the ground for such a long time. 00:42:15 Becs Gentry: Such a good point. 00:42:15 Margot Fleming: We miss a lot of sun- 00:42:15 Rob Simmelkjaer: Focus on your next couple of couple of steps, right? 00:42:20 Margot Fleming: Yeah. We miss a lot of sunsets and sunrises, I feel. 00:42:23 Becs Gentry: Yeah, and vistas because you're just too busy like, " I don't want

to look down because I might get vertigo." 00:42:31 Rob Simmelkjaer: Plus looking up while you're moving is just dangerous. You can't do that when you're not on a road where the steps are uncertain, right, Jeremiah? 00:42:38 Jeremiah Maestre: Yeah. And going back to the night, there's this weird sense of focus that you have because there's so much more on the line now. It's like you have even a higher risk of rolling your ankle, which I did twice because I misplaced my steps going downhill. And it's weird because, okay, the visibility may not be as strong in the nighttime, but then your hearing gets a lot stronger and better. So what I remember through the night is I hear my steps, I hear the steps of people behind me, in front of me. I hear the poles behind me, in front of me. And then I hear the cow bells. There's cows all up and down, wild cows, horses. 00:43:19 Becs Gentry: Big ones with big spiky horns. 00:43:20 Rob Simmelkjaer: Wild cows. I mean, that's a concept right there. Yeah. 00:43:27 Jeremiah Maestre: There's been cow attacks during this race I've heard. Yeah. And then there's the cows with the bells and you hear them and it almost tricks you because some people like spectators will have the cowbells and they'll be ringing them to cheer you on. So every time I would hear that, I'm like, "Oh my gosh, we're close to an aid station." But no, it's just a random herd of cows in the middle of a field. And then you're climbing or descending another two hours waiting to hear more bells. But yeah, you're super focused through the night. You're watching every step, especially on the downhills, the technical downhills, so you don't trip and fall and roll down the mountain. And then you're just hearing everything around you. 00:44:12 Rob Simmelkjaer: It's incredible. Margot, talk to me about your finish and your last bit of this and how it felt for you to get to that finish line. What was the end of this like for you and did you feel happy with how it went? 00:44:29 Margot Fleming: Yeah, I came through some of the two last aid stations. One, I was able to get crewed by my friend and I'd come out of the night and I changed out of very wet clothing into something comfortable and dry and it was daylight and morning and I was like, " Okay, this is over. I've done it." I felt pretty good with still probably 10 miles, maybe 10 miles, 12 miles to go. But I knew I still had one really technical climb and two really annoying descents to do. And I had been counting my collective vert the whole time. So I was like, "I know I don't have

that much more climbing left. I just got to keep my wits about me and stay on my feet." But it was daytime. So despite incredible exhaustion, it was just such a relief to have sun again. And it just does something to you that's like, it could take you from the darkest place to honestly the most positive. But I started to see my team and my crew and my friends and I was just like, " Oh man, it's so great to see people that I know and be in a good positive mood." And they met me along the route once we were back in the French Valley. And I started to have these feelings of just proud and pride and just being happy and pleased with myself pretty far out, which was such a relief to my previous disappointment in myself, which is still something I'm trying to process. But they had signs for me at the La Flegere climb and aid station. And it was just so nice to see people. And our last descent into town is about four miles of descending, and then you hit town and you hit a river and you get to run. And on the last mile, a little over a mile, I was like, " I've got running left in me." And so I probably had my fastest couple miles of the whole race in the last mile or two. And I pretty much sprinted to the finish line. I was so ready to sleep and- 00:46:43 Becs Gentry: In a bed. 00:46:44 Margot Fleming: ... honestly, have a beer and hang with my friends and just hang with everybody that I sprinted through town. I passed tons of people and got to the finish and was like, " Wow." I kind of honestly at a loss for words. I was like, " It worked out. All this three year thing has happened." 00:47:10 Rob Simmelkjaer: You did it. 00:47:10 Margot Fleming: Yeah. 00:47:10 Rob Simmelkjaer: Yeah. 00:47:10 Margot Fleming: That was it. 00:47:11 Rob Simmelkjaer: So with the time we have left, I want to ask each of you, and I'm going to save you for last on this, Becs, why you do this. And maybe in a way that could help someone else out there who's listening, who maybe has given a thought here or there to trail running or to taking on challenges like this, why they should even take the first step toward doing something like what you all did a few weeks ago. Jeremiah, I'll start with you. Because that's the obvious question, right? We all get it. Even if we just run marathons, the question of why. So why this? 00:47:51 Jeremiah Maestre: Yeah. I mean, despite how tricky and difficult we may make it seem, it's such a simple concept. You're literally in nature going through the different terrains and just moving your body. And that's

what I love about it, the simplicity of it. I find so much fulfillment in just doing that and just seeing what my body's capable of doing, what kind of world is out there that I could see with my own eyes and with my own feet. And as long as I'm eating and putting the right stuff in my body, I could do it for as long as I possibly can. And it's so incredible the things out there and the places that you can access with your feet. And again, it's as simple as that. And the fulfillment it gives me is second to none. 00:48:45 Rob Simmelkjaer: That I totally hear. That's a great answer. And I can feel that in the way you describe it, I can feel the joy you could get from being out there in nature, moving. And I always say running is an underrated form of transportation and you're just getting places that way. Margot, how about you? 00:49:04 Margot Fleming: Well, Rob, to what you're saying, I think about that often that I grew up in New Jersey and I was like, " Could I run from my mom's house into Manhattan?" And you really can't unless I went to the bridge. But I loved always comparing things to distances and travel that I could cover. I could get there if I wanted like this, but we're not going to do that today. But I think, I mean, ultra running and trail running has played a pretty significant role mentally for me more so than I... And I found it to be way more fulfilling than road running. And obviously having road running in my family, my parents found quite a lot of peace in that. And I just found that I needed a different sort of mental escape. And so yeah, just from a mental health perspective, like Jeremiah said, being in nature, being on soft ground, being in quiet places, it really can help just kind of stimulate something different. And yes, it's so hard, it is incredibly hard and you have to have an intense amount of focus that's different to cement and road running, but it just, I think elicits something in us different as humans, just being out there and feeling... Yeah. And the community of it is just a bit different too. Everyone from the best runner to where we are and behind us, we're all doing the same, covering the same ground, which is in road running as well, but you just go through something. And then the camaraderie and support that you find at the end or in the middle is unlike anything I've ever experienced. So you're never alone and though you're alone a lot of it, it's kind of a wild... I just recommend anyone try it, even 5Ks of trail running. The community

is beautiful. So I think it's a lot of- 00:51:22 Jeremiah Maestre: You don't have to do the hundred miles to enjoy the trails. 00:51:24 Margot Fleming: No, you don't at all. I don't actually recommend that. 00:51:30 Becs Gentry: Skip it if you can. 00:51:32 Jeremiah Maestre: Margot said something that actually really rung some with me. It's perspective. It really gives you a great perspective on life because it is hard, but then you think about it, life is hard, sitting in traffic is hard, and when your kids get sick is hard, your job is hard. And when you do this and you find fulfillment in doing hard things, and again, it gives you such a better perspective on life. So I highly recommend as well. 00:52:01 Rob Simmelkjaer: By the way, a little promo here on this front, for those in our listening area in the Road Runners community who would like to give this a try, we're setting up discounts for Road Runners members to different races. And we actually set one up for an event in New Jersey, Margot, you may have heard of this, the Palisades Half Marathon and Trail Run. It's a short trail run, eight kilometers, but that's to me like a perfect distance to just get a taste for it, which is on Sunday, September 27th. New York Road Runners members get a 10% discount when they sign up. So check your email, check your member dashboard if you're a Road Runners member, because you can sign up and actually experience a trail run. I'm actually thinking about doing this one myself. It's right in the neighborhood where I grew up in New Jersey. 00:52:51 Becs Gentry: You should. 00:52:53 Rob Simmelkjaer: I ran cross country and through Van Cortlandt Park, sometimes running cross country is basically trail running. I remember that and how cool that feeling is of that focus you need to where you put your foot every time. All right, Becs, I want to wrap this question with you. You obviously, this accomplished Road Runner, you are an instructor, a teacher, an icon, if you will, I'm going to use that word, in the running space. 00:53:23 Becs Gentry: She's an icon. 00:53:24 Rob Simmelkjaer: And now here you are in this space and learning and jumping in like deep end, deep end with this stuff that you're doing. 00:53:33 Becs Gentry: That was pointed out to me a few times. You really did just go for the toughest races you could find. Speedgoat this year, toughest 50K in the US, and then onto this one. 00:53:44 Rob Simmelkjaer: No pool stairs for you. No pool stairs at all. You're going right in the deep end. So you talked about why before in terms of wanting to try something different. And

now that you've done what you've done, do you have a different reflection on the why and has it given you what you thought it would give you going on this journey of trail running? 00:54:04 Becs Gentry: Short answer, yes. It gave me a lot of what I thought it would. And I echo everything both Margot and Jeremiah said. There's a different beauty to trail racing as opposed to road racing. Road racing fills up my cup personally, and again, this is all my personal opinion and experience that I'm drawing from. Road racing fills my cup up in, I'm going to go so far as to say a more aggressive side of me comes out in road racing. I have times, paces, distances, people I want to beat, including myself. And then I think what I've gathered from this year's races that I've gone to on the trail side is it's almost more definitive on the road. There's almost more of you get onto your training runs and you practice hitting those paces and you're on the same terrain. When you get to race day, it's like you've rehearsed and you know and you understand that's your goal and you can get it because you've been there so many times. Whereas trail racing, you still don't know what's going to happen on race day. You can practice, you can rehearse, you can get out there on the trails. It's like Margot went out to Chamonix and did it earlier in summer, did a lot of the course that she was about to run. But that didn't mean that on the day when it came to back- to- back hours of running on that course, it was going to be very different. The feel was very different. The weather's very different. Jeremiah and I had three course changes whilst we were out there, which added on miles, took miles away, then added on more miles and more elevation right at the end. So there's more that fills my cup up in a wholesome way on trails because it is so many more avenues of can I that I have to turn down over the 19 miles that the race took me. There were hundreds of can Is. There are hundreds of I don't want tos. There were multiple times I just cried while I was moving because I didn't want to be there anymore. But then two seconds later I kind of took in where I was and went, " Just shut up. Shut up. You are so lucky to be able to do this. You can keep moving. It is one step at a time. There is no time goal other than the cutoff. But just get to the end, get to the finish." And that to me, that has been so wonderful. And just having this big difference in pressure has been beautiful to me of, I don't know. I was sick of,

not sick of it, but I'd had enough of having to hit my paces on every single freaking run for road racing and just feeling this sense. It's kind of like the Instagram thing. It's great. It makes you feel good, but then you get one comparison to someone else and your life that is absolutely beautiful and stunning, it suddenly feels like it's not good enough. And then you're just like, " Oh, wake up. My life is freaking wonderful. I don't need to compare it to someone else's." And that's like road racing for me of like, " Oh, wow. Why was I so ungrateful for being able to run full stop, let alone not hit the paces that were prescribed to me?" And trail for where I'm at, I'm not hitting paces. I'm just trying to get the distance done and in my legs and the climbs done, and it takes me however long it takes me. And that's the journey and that's the beautiful side of it. And who doesn't (inaudible) - 00:57:35 Jeremiah Maestre: That says something too, B, that you did literally the hardest, most difficult trail races the first year back getting into trail running. From the Canyons 50K to your qualifying race, you literally lined up with the elite women's pack and you're like, " Let's do this." 00:57:57 Becs Gentry: I got dropped real quick, but yeah. 00:58:00 Jeremiah Maestre: You won't say it, but I think you performed beautifully that race. Because we were both at that race together and then we were at Speedgoat together. And again all lined up- 00:58:06 Becs Gentry: Jeremiah is my lucky charm. We have to do trail race together. 00:58:10 Jeremiah Maestre: You lined up with the best of the best and accomplished that. That race was a scary race. 00:58:16 Becs Gentry: Yeah. Yes. Yes, sir. 00:58:18 Jeremiah Maestre: And then wrapped it up at CCC. 00:58:19 Becs Gentry: Yeah. Yeah, we did. 00:58:21 Margot Fleming: Would you do Speedgoat or CCC? How do those compare? 00:58:28 Becs Gentry: I'd never do Speedgoat again. We're on the start line, Margot, and the race director goes, " Good luck. I made this race as hard as possible to..." He literally is gloating about how hard it is. He's like, "Ha ha. See if you finish." You're like, " Oh my gosh." And for somebody who dwells at sea level, to start at 8, 000 feet and climb another, what was it, 10, Jer, that we did, was absurd. And it was the hottest, most humid day as well. It felt like I was on the face of the sun whilst trying not to fall off a tiny ridge of a mountain path. I'm like, "What am I doing?" So I don't think I'd do Speedgoat. 00:59:09 Margot Fleming: I did that last year or two years ago maybe, but booked a 9: 00 PM

flight back to LA that night. 00:59:22 Becs Gentry: Okay. At least it was short. 00:59:22 Margot Fleming: I was like, "I got to get out of here. It's a 50K. I'm just going to get out of here." I was running till 6: 00 PM and then had to get down the mountain and over to the Salt Lake Airport. I didn't have no idea what I'm doing here. I'm not cut out for this elevation at all. But I was like, "I know one thing for certain, I'm not coming back." 00:59:46 Becs Gentry: I will go and help anyone else, but I would rather do CCC again. And that says a lot because I'm not going to be doing CCC again. (inaudible) . 00:59:56 Jeremiah Maestre: Margot, that was the race we did together and I DNFed that race. I remember right before I DNFed, you passed me and you looked at me, you're like, " This is so grim. I can't believe what we're doing." And I was so scared. 01:00:10 Margot Fleming: We were climbing that wall, that wall of dirt. I was like, "What is this?" 01:00:14 Becs Gentry: What is this? 01:00:14 Jeremiah Maestre: I think pound for pound is a little more difficult than CCC. 01:00:22 Becs Gentry: I do. I think so. 01:00:23 Margot Fleming: Really? 01:00:23 Jeremiah Maestre: Because the technicality and the altitude. 01:00:26 Becs Gentry: And to me, there was no real runnable areas on Speedgoat. Whereas CCC, there was some really beautiful miles of running. 01:00:35 Jeremiah Maestre: I don't think I ran once other than the first. 01:00:38 Becs Gentry: But we did it. 01:00:38 Margot Fleming: Yeah, once we got on the balconies. 01:00:39 Becs Gentry: Yeah, we did. We got to run with wild horses. Who doesn't want to do that? Even though I though I was hallucinating. 01:00:44 Margot Fleming: What everyone thought was AI. 01:00:46 Becs Gentry: Fully thought I was hallucinating. But I checked with the girl next to me, she could see the horses, so I was like, " We're good. I'm not tripping. I'm not tripping." Well, we did it. We made it. Margot has UTMB under her belt. Jeremiah and I have CCC under our belts. And I'm not going to ask what's next because I hate that question myself, especially after the high of... This was only three weeks ago that the three of us came over this finish line. I know you both probably have things on deck that you're doing, so I'm going to encourage people to find you on social and support you in that way. But from my side, thank you both for being massive inspirations to me on this journey. And thank you for the probably asinine questions that you've answered from me about trail running and what do I do? And you're both like, " Oh my God, what is she talking about?" 01:01:47 Margot Fleming: I'm here for it. 01:01:47 Becs Gentry: But thank you for being such great friends and such great runners as well. 01:01:54 Jeremiah Maestre: Yeah. Thank you for being so impactful in both of our journeys, Becs, and for the audience. You were my running coach, my first running coach, and laid such a strong foundation in my running journey to help me be capable of doing the things I'm doing now. So thank you for the impact you have and ripple effect. You have no idea. 01:02:15 Becs Gentry: Thank you. Thank you. 01:02:19 Margot Fleming: Yeah, love that. 01:02:19 Becs Gentry: Yay. All right. 01:02:19 Margot Fleming: You haven't been my coach, but maybe you should be. (inaudible) . 01:02:21 Becs Gentry: I don't know. You run far and hard. 01:02:24 Margot Fleming: Yeah. 01:02:28 Becs Gentry: Peloton has got something for whatever running mood you're in. Try instructor- led runs and walks that are built to fit into your routine with classes that help you stay consistent, build speed, and be in the moment. Track your metrics, see your progress, and train smarter. We've got it all to help you reach your goals and stay on track. Peloton, the official digital fitness partner of New York Road Runners. Well, wow. That does it for another episode of Set the Pace today. Thank you all for joining us. Thank you to my incredible friends and amazing guests, Margot Fleming and Jeremiah Maestre. If you do like this episode, please do go ahead subscribe, rate, or leave a comment for the show on whatever platform you're listening on. This not only helps us, but it does help other people find about the show too.